Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread

[sickbeggar]

On a more general point,  our signings so far seem to have fallen into the obsession with value, that Lerner lately suffered from after MON left. Actually the complete misunderstanding of what "value" means.  Yes of course this club needs to buy young players with potential like McGinn and watkins or cash, with resale value, but you still need to buy the older players at 29/30/31 with no-resale value who will provide experience when we're struggling, ESPECIALLY where we are now, because blooding a championship player or foreign lower league at 23 or 24 may insure you get someone you can sell at 28 for 30m, but it won't make up for the 100m cost of relegation while they find their feet or not.. That's not a go at Watkins, that's just a view of the players we bought after coming up, and the way it seems to be  going this summer.

There’s truth in what you’re saying but it’s a hard to balance.  I look at the players that have moved that fall into that category (Hendricks / Wilson / I’m struggling...) and I’m not sure any fit in such crucial positions (Dacoure maybe).  If we are going to spend big money do it in the positions that will most influenced the team.

Weirdly I think Rose would tick a few boxes.  Improves on Taggert and adds PL know how.  On the flip side appears to be a bit of a handful and it would mean dealing with Daniel Levy.

There’s definitely scope in the DCM position for a player of this ilk but I am not familiar with the realistic options other than the lazy Milner/Delph propositions.

Bad form but to respond to my own post but I think Westwood has been POTY at Burnley at least once since he left and, well you can imagine how popular that signing would be.

well yeah. I don't want us going down that Ajax of the UK, Lerner wanted. I think westwood is a premiership player, but he didn't do much good for us turning him into one.

[Steve67]

I want Morten Thorsby just for the name.  First dcm to be linked for a while. We certainly need one.

[Londonvilla]

Aston Villa and Watford – Clubs keen on goalkeeper and defender

Brescia chief Massimo Cellino is in England negotiating with Aston Villa and Watford over potential deals for Jesse Joronen and Jhon Chancellor.

https://sportwitness.co.uk/massimo-cellino-negotiating-england-aston-villa-watford/

Jesse Pekka Joronen is a Finnish professional footballer who plays as a goalkeeper for Serie B club Brescia (6 feet 4 inches)

Jhon Carlos Chancellor Cedeño is a Venezuelan professional footballer who plays as a centre-back for Serie B club Brescia (6 feet 4 inches)

Plan B?

[PeterWithe]

He’d be good for our budget.

[sickbeggar]

So i hope Watkins is a success just to wind up the likes of twitter and the Meaning  Evil currently taking the piss.

Are they? Genuine question, as I'm not on Twitter and don't read that rag.


Given the current market, I think the reported fee for Watkins is perfectly reasonable.

yeah mail have got some article claiming brentford fans are all celebrating. Shouldn't rise to the bait, but y'know.

That's the thing. I know it's a cliche that football fans claim certain media outlets are against them, but with the Mail it is pretty blatant. If we signed Messi and Ronaldo on free transfers the Mail would be calling us an old folks' home. It's not possible to get an objective view of our business from that paper.

yeah ignore me.  i'm ashamed for falling for the click-bait

[sickbeggar]

dear god. Serie b?

[Brazilian Villain]

He’d be good for our budget.

Nothing wrong with having a big Pekka either.

[Brazilian Villain]

well yeah it is a bit limited in this country. I'd be looking abroad

dear god. Serie b?

Still not happy?

[SoccerHQ]

Joronen's a pretty good goalkeeper, apparently made Serie A squad of the season.

Would be cool to see a Venezuelan play for us. Big Chancellor is quite economical at the back for them.....would prefer Yordan Osorio though who was on loan at Zenit from Porto last season. He had a fantastic game against Brazil last summer in copa America when Venezuelan drew 0-0.

[sickbeggar]

well yeah it is a bit limited in this country. I'd be looking abroad

dear god. Serie b?

Still not happy?

No. when i said abroad i didn't mean italy's version of the championship but 5 times shitter

[PeterWithe]

well yeah it is a bit limited in this country. I'd be looking abroad

dear god. Serie b?

Still not happy?

No. when i said abroad i didn't mean italy's version of the championship but 5 times shitter

They were Serie A last time out. Finished second bottom.

[hilts_coolerking]

From the BBC Sport gossip page: "Aston Villa want to seal a quick deal with Arsenal for Argentina goalkeeper Emiliano Martinez, 28, so that he arrives in time for their opening game of the new season on Sunday. {Mail}"

Fair enough, but we're not playing Sunday are we?

[sickbeggar]

well yeah it is a bit limited in this country. I'd be looking abroad

dear god. Serie b?

Still not happy?

No. when i said abroad i didn't mean italy's version of the championship but 5 times shitter

They were Serie A last time out. Finished second bottom.

yeah i saw soccer Hq's post.. I'm a bit negative tonight i'm afraid about the general direction of our transfer business.. Apologies and to brazillian villian too

[SoccerHQ]

End of the day you have to back the manager or sack him imo. I'm not a fan of choosing players by committee - manager wants A, gets C etc. Yeah C may be on paper be as good or better than the manager's choice, but you can't fake a manager who really wants a player to join or the ability of a player to run through walls for a manager who believes in him. So i hope Watkins is a success just to wind up the likes of twitter and the Meaning  Evil currently taking the piss.

On a more general point,  our signings so far seem to have fallen into the obsession with value, that Lerner lately suffered from after MON left. Actually the complete misunderstanding of what "value" means.  Yes of course this club needs to buy young players with potential like McGinn and watkins or cash, with resale value, but you still need to buy the older players at 29/30/31 with no-resale value who will provide experience when we're struggling, ESPECIALLY where we are now, because blooding a championship player or foreign lower league at 23 or 24 may insure you get someone you can sell at 28 for 30m, but it won't make up for the 100m cost of relegation while they find their feet or not.. That's not a go at Watkins, that's just a view of the players we bought after coming up, and the way it seems to be  going this summer.

at

Watford had squad full of proven premier league players that had finished mid table and got to the cup final, and yet they went down and we didn't.

Experience is valuable, but it needs to be good and provide value. Lescott and Richards were experienced, and were an absolute skid mark on the clubs history. Kortney Hause has proven better value than both put together and he's only a back up.

Think back to our real good teams in living memory and they all had fantastic experience right through.

92/93- God, Stan Staunton, Richardson, Houghton, Garry Parker, Saunders.

Then Brian Little came in and realised some of those were past their best but still got in someone like Townsend who was 30 when we signed him from Chelsea and he provided superb leadership for two years.

Then the 2000 cup final team had James-Southgate-Ugo-Taylor-Merson-Dublin.

And MON had Friedel-Mellberg-Laursen-Petrov-Barry-Carew.

People like  me and a few others who want experience aren't asking for us to sign half a team of 35 year olds but any succesful Villa team has always had a good core of been there, done it players in key positions so just seems odd we're wildly swinging away from that policy now.

Even looking at the teams who win trophies and finish in CL you had Arsenal signing 32 year old David Luiz last summer (o.k maybe not the best example!) and added Willian this summer who's the same age. Chelsea just signed a 35 year old CB to try to improve their defence. Liverpool signed James Milner when he was 29 and got five fantastic years out of him.

I think it's an error from us just because likes of Drinkwater and Lescott have been terrible. We've signed plenty of terrible players aged under 25 in last decade aswell and haven't made too much money back on them either.

[sickbeggar]

End of the day you have to back the manager or sack him imo. I'm not a fan of choosing players by committee - manager wants A, gets C etc. Yeah C may be on paper be as good or better than the manager's choice, but you can't fake a manager who really wants a player to join or the ability of a player to run through walls for a manager who believes in him. So i hope Watkins is a success just to wind up the likes of twitter and the Meaning  Evil currently taking the piss.

On a more general point,  our signings so far seem to have fallen into the obsession with value, that Lerner lately suffered from after MON left. Actually the complete misunderstanding of what "value" means.  Yes of course this club needs to buy young players with potential like McGinn and watkins or cash, with resale value, but you still need to buy the older players at 29/30/31 with no-resale value who will provide experience when we're struggling, ESPECIALLY where we are now, because blooding a championship player or foreign lower league at 23 or 24 may insure you get someone you can sell at 28 for 30m, but it won't make up for the 100m cost of relegation while they find their feet or not.. That's not a go at Watkins, that's just a view of the players we bought after coming up, and the way it seems to be  going this summer.

at

Watford had squad full of proven premier league players that had finished mid table and got to the cup final, and yet they went down and we didn't.

Experience is valuable, but it needs to be good and provide value. Lescott and Richards were experienced, and were an absolute skid mark on the clubs history. Kortney Hause has proven better value than both put together and he's only a back up.

Think back to our real good teams in living memory and they all had fantastic experience right through.

92/93- God, Stan Staunton, Richardson, Houghton, Garry Parker, Saunders.

Then Brian Little came in and realised some of those were past their best but still got in someone like Townsend who was 30 when we signed him from Chelsea and he provided superb leadership for two years.

Then the 2000 cup final team had James-Southgate-Ugo-Taylor-Merson-Dublin.

And MON had Friedel-Mellberg-Laursen-Petrov-Barry-Carew.

People like  me and a few others who want experience aren't asking for us to sign half a team of 35 year olds but any succesful Villa team has always had a good core of been there, done it players in key positions so just seems odd we're wildly swinging away from that policy now.

Even looking at the teams who win trophies and finish in CL you had Arsenal signing 32 year old David Luiz last summer (o.k maybe not the best example!) and added Willian this summer who's the same age. Chelsea just signed a 35 year old CB to try to improve their defence. Liverpool signed James Milner when he was 29 and got five fantastic years out of him.

I think it's an error from us just because likes of Drinkwater and Lescott have been terrible. We've signed plenty of terrible players aged under 25 in last decade aswell and haven't made too much money back on them either.

this with bells on. Far better than i could have put it.