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Author Topic: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team  (Read 13227 times)

Online tomd2103

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2020, 02:04:05 PM »
Ravanelli was on 40k a week at Boro. Around 150k in today's terms.

That said he was available in 1997 and would've been more effective than Collymore who must've been on a similar wedge when he signed.

Shame we couldn't have got Les Ferdiand in the years he was linked, him and Yorke would've been nice combination.

Oh to go back to seasons where finishing 5th was considered big underachievement as in 96/97.

Always thought that Dion Dublin would have made a real difference had we signed him a few years earlier.  He signed for Coventry in 1994 and was pretty much a 1 in 2 striker there.

Offline garyellis

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #91 on: April 07, 2020, 03:11:36 PM »
Thompson didn't really bomb, he had a decent start and then looked pretty average for the rest of his Villa career.

I've always said that the thing that fucked us up more than anything in the 90's was the signings of Curcic and Collymore. Two massively talented nut jobs, we broke our transfer record both times and although they were definately the type of players we needed at each time it was quite quickly obvious that they were not the right characters. Who do you blame, the manager that signed them, the players themselves, the people around the manager who you would hope would be advising on such things or maybe the culture of the club wasn't right for them? Maybe it was a combination of everything.
The other thing of course was Doug not just going the extra mile at critical times. The 92-93 starting 11 was as good as Man utd's but we didn't have the strength in depth. We were always a couple of good players short.
This 100% is my take on it. If only Collymore had been our Cantona I also thought Curcic would do for us what McManaman did for Liverpool just give us something different. Ah well it wasn't to be

Online brontebilly

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #92 on: April 07, 2020, 03:41:56 PM »
The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

That has definitely been a factor in the EPL years, but Ravanelli rocked-up in Middlesbrough after Euro 96 having scored a few weeks earlier for Juventus in the CL final, and there are other examples. There was maybe just a different attitude to risk and reward in B6.

We'd obviously had a good season leading up to Euro 96, and Little's early signings had been largely successful. I suppose that it is at these moments though that Villa have perennially failed to push on to the next level. Whilst it's difficult to argue with the intent shown by signing Collymore, with hindsight the signings between summer 95 and autumn 98 were largely underwhelming - and even Merson and Dublin at this point were (not directly) filling holes left by departures like Milosevic and Yorke.

Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.
Curcic and Thompson were excellent signings, based on their career to date. Both bombed badly at the Villa. Isn't that what really did for Little's managerial career with us?

Well, apart from all the shagging that appears to have been going one!

Mark Draper's form if I recall correctly dropped off a cliff too. He was outstanding in Little's early seasons.

Thompson did very well for MON up in Celtic, though think he had a bit of a refuelling habit aswell. Curcic and Collymore careers went into free fall.

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #93 on: April 07, 2020, 04:19:37 PM »

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent. 

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #94 on: April 07, 2020, 04:23:16 PM »

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent. 

Yep. Some deeply uninspiring signings. Didn't know about the agent thing.

Offline Villan82

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #95 on: April 07, 2020, 05:28:12 PM »

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent.

That's a very good point. Imagine Little, Big Ron (even dare I say it O'Leary-his signings were good- Laursen, Bouma, Sorensen, McCann) with that money in the late 90's-early 00s.

Offline eamonn

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2020, 05:50:18 PM »
Gregory and O'Neill were cut from the same cloth. Signing over-priced, average British players in the main and struggled to break teams down from open play with some desperately poor home displays; more than the average amount for a 6th-placed standard team in their seasons in charge.

Offline Damo70

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2020, 06:13:13 PM »
It would have been interesting to see how the 1989-1990 side who were runners up under SGT would have developed if he had stayed in charge. I think God, Sid and Platt aside it was a fair less talented side than the '92/'93 side and the 89/90 side overachieved. But SGT would surely have been aware of that and would have strengthened. It should be pointed out that when BFR took over in 1991 after the terrible Dr Jo season BFR had the opportunity to build practically a new team due to the amount of cash we got for David Platt.

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #98 on: April 07, 2020, 06:15:35 PM »
Juninho may have taken care of the lack of creativity in open play.

Gregory’s dealing were murky mind

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #99 on: April 07, 2020, 06:43:27 PM »
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.

Online brontebilly

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2020, 07:11:25 PM »
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/26/newsstory.sport7.....Merson was with us from 98/02 . So not sure how they were meant to play together. We were top of the table at the time but Juninho was coming back from a broken leg at the time so it was risky enough. Juninhos career never kicked on afterwards either, flopped at Celtic under MON.

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #101 on: April 07, 2020, 07:15:41 PM »
Merson, Juninho, Dublin and Robbie Keane. In a parallel universe we broke every goalscoring record going.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2020, 07:43:45 PM »
Keane was open to the idea of moving to Villa when Clough let him first know of our interest back in Oct/Nov 92. Ultimately Clough blocked the move after losing Sheringham not long before.

Froggatt and Atkinson not getting heavy duty injuries in 92 (the former was directly responsible for many of Deano's early goals during his most prolific era for the club) and signing Keane  = we win the league that year and have a good chance of doing so again in 93/94.

Keane had his choice of clubs at the time. He infamously shook hands with Dalglish on a deal to sign for Blackburn only to renege on it over a weekend and sign for United. Interestingly it was the only signing they made that summer. United under Edwards were fairly tight too when it came to spending. Paul McGrath when he signed for them was getting less wages than he was playing for St Pat's and working as a part time security guard.

Had Bosnich already nailed the number one spot by the end of 92/93? Maybe they weren't ready but in hindsight BFR should have shown more faith possibly in the likes of Ugo and obviously Yorke.

In later years, I seem to recall us being very close to the top in Littles first season before drifting away. The failure to sign Juninho is often pointed at as a lack of ambition but it can't be said for going all out and getting Collymore. Unfortunately he destroyed the team and Little.

Not forgetting we signed Curcic that summer as well as Collymore. The fact both of them were suffering from depression and mental health problems shows, despite I would suggest strengthening, it actually weakened us as it unsettled the squad. It was a shame as we were getting back on track. Still good UEFA cup run in 97/98.

Surprised we didn't explore the european markets more in those times. We signed Savo and also Fernando Nelson who were solid but that was it over I think 3-4 summers. Was that due to Sir Brian just wanting premier league experience like so many since in the hotseat? Were pretty close to signing Roberto Carlos in 1995 from Inter and Brian says in his latest book Doug was about to sign Danny Blind behind his back in 1996 (Sir Brian didn't think he'd be a good fit in the formation or quick enough for premier league).

Obviously couldn't compete with Boro or what Chelsea were offering with likes of Zola but I look at Newcastle signing Ginola and thinking that's the sort of player needed to push from 5th to at least 2nd again.

Simon Grayson signing in 1997 probably sums things up. A solid squad player but not as good as Townsend (he must've had a good offer from Boro to jump ship so early in 97 season) and served his purpose after 12 months.

Think it was also an error not to sign a CB in that time. Southgate missed chunks of both 96 and 97-98 with injury and I'd imagine defensive record was nowhere near as good. Ricardo Scimeca always seemed one of those who was massively hyped but seemed pretty average when he played and he too never kicked on and became another youth product who was a comfortable championship player.

Still overall a fantastic period of cup wins, playing in europe most seasons and still being one of the biggest clubs in the country on the pitch.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2020, 07:52:09 PM »
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

Derby attracted guys like Igor Stimac and Asanovic who were good players for Croatia in euro 96 and comfortably helped newly promoted Derby finished 12th. Think Sheff Weds signed Di Canio and Carbone in the same summer (Di Canio was at Celtic at the time actually).

I certainly take the London factor but mid range prem clubs were exploiting the market more than we were at the time.In fairness in 96/97 we were only 7 points off 2nd and dropped a fair few points in the run in so weren't miles off going into summer 1997. Ultimately we staked everything on Stanley Victor and we know what happened.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2020, 08:00:51 PM »

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent. 

Yep. Some deeply uninspiring signings. Didn't know about the agent thing.

Paul Stretford wasn't it.....

Gregory seemed to go from simply signing all British stock every summer to more exotic signings in short space of time so he must've heard a whisper he was being rumbled. Didn't he get sacked from Derby for misconduct?

2001 I thought we had a great transfer window. Solid premier league experience in Schmiechel, Hadji and Kachoul and an up and coming young striker called Bosko Balaban. In true Villa fashion they all bombed bar Mellberg who was a young CB with decent league and international experience when we signed him.

By then though the fire had gone out and we were going through the motions in league seasons. 2000 cup final was the end for JG really and most of the squad knew it with all of the transfer requests that happened straight after.

 


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