Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: brontebilly on April 05, 2020, 01:20:39 PM

Title: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 05, 2020, 01:20:39 PM
My memory of this is somewhat hazy but top of the table with six games to go in 92/93 to barely avoiding relegation two seasons later minus Ron Atkinson. What are the explanations for this rapid decline? The squad wasn't that old, the likes of Daley, Atkinson, Staunton should have been at their peak and we had a young Yorke and Bosnich. The form and careers of so many players seemed to fall off a cliff after 1993.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: garyshawsknee on April 05, 2020, 01:29:26 PM
I was there when we won at Forest and was convinced we were gonna go on to win the league. At that time Yorke was playing really well with Saunders as Dalian had been out for a while. I think Big Ron tried to shoe horn Dalian back into the side and he wasn't 100% fit, it upset the flow of Yorke and we lost momentum and ultimately the wheels came off.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: The Left Side on April 05, 2020, 02:14:44 PM
This for sure, we stopped scoring goals and a bit of luck went against us and it all went with Manure, the day they beat Sheff Wed and I think we drew with Coventry.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Richard E on April 05, 2020, 03:00:20 PM
The main reason was me finishing Law School and being able to go regularly again.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Reuben on April 05, 2020, 03:10:19 PM
My memory is that there were a few players getting on a bit.  Like Ray Houghton. Then he went and bought John Fashanu...
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 05, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
As usual, we didn't bother to significantly strengthen from a position of strength, and had pretty much the same squad at the start of 1994/95 as we had at the end of 1992/93. Many of the players were ageing, and Atkinson was a declining force as he was overtaken with managers with more modern ideas. The 1993/94 League Cup allowed us to paper over the cracks but we were already in decline by then, finishing mid-table that season.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: garyshawsknee on April 05, 2020, 03:23:28 PM
Never strengthening from a strong position was our downfall under Doug ( yet again ) Think we bought Townsend and Whittingham, King the following summer.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Simon Page on April 05, 2020, 03:58:05 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 05, 2020, 04:04:25 PM
Sadly, it seems that Sir Brian was great at getting a team winning games, but when things didn't go for him, he was unable to change things. His career seemed to keep going the same way when he left Villa good start, bad run, end.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 05, 2020, 04:11:00 PM
I was just getting into Football at this age - I was 9...
I've watched that season review so many times - it was a good side....
I remember Yorke as a brilliant striker a few seasons later - but what was the deal with Yorke in 92/93?
I get Saunders and Atkinson were first choice strikers - so was Ron playing Yorke on the wing? I remember Parker and Richardson looking good in centre midfield - did the arrival of Townsend the season later upset things?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 05, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Atkinson got injured so Yorke came in. Atkinson came back and Yorke got dropped. Probably harshly. I don't think the three played together too often.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 05, 2020, 04:17:12 PM
I was just getting into Football at this age - I was 9...
I've watched that season review so many times - it was a good side....
I remember Yorke as a brilliant striker a few seasons later - but what was the deal with Yorke in 92/93?
I get Saunders and Atkinson were first choice strikers - so was Ron playing Yorke on the wing? I remember Parker and Richardson looking good in centre midfield - did the arrival of Townsend the season later upset things?

Ron never fancied Yorke for some reason (actually there is a speculative reason but best not go into that) and when he signed Townsend he had him playing out wide. I think we declined so quickly because he realised after 92-93 that he'd never win the lerague so went for the quick fix of cup runs. Once he'd won the League Cup he took his eye off the ball totally and put his faith in his inner circle of players, who let him down in his last weeks.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 05, 2020, 04:23:42 PM
I'm not sure the like sof Whittingham, Phil King and Fashanu were good enough to replace the players from 92/93 that needed replacing.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villafirst on April 05, 2020, 04:27:40 PM
This for sure, we stopped scoring goals and a bit of luck went against us and it all went with Manure, the day they beat Sheff Wed and I think we drew with Coventry.

Was that the day when Manure were given 9 minutes of 'Fergie' time by the referee?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 05, 2020, 04:27:53 PM
For all the supposed flair and great football we played under Atkinson goalscoring was always pretty crap. Even in 92/93 we were only 8th highest scorers, Oldham who stayed up on GD scored more than us. I think it was 26 times we scored 0 or 1. In 91/92 we had that pathetic run of 1 goal in 11 league games. 93/94 we were 16th highest scorers, even bottom of the table Swindon scored more than us.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 05, 2020, 04:57:11 PM
Our strikers were never scoring thirty a season but they were decent enough. Those stats back up my theory that we never scored nearly enough goals from midfield. Also, can't remember very many set piece goals.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Simon Page on April 05, 2020, 05:07:38 PM
There were quite a few pointing out at the time that we didn't have 20+ a season strikers. Made it all the more galling that we missed out on Shearer and Sutton in consecutive seasons.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 05, 2020, 05:15:25 PM
We only once had a 12 league goals a season man under Atkinson, never mind 20 or 30 a year.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: AV82EC on April 05, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
We were a superbly coached side by Dave Sexton at the time, very easy on the eye, but lacked goals all over the pitch. We never strengthened properly from a position of strength (repeat ad infinitum).
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 05, 2020, 05:41:32 PM
Our strikers were never scoring thirty a season but they were decent enough. Those stats back up my theory that we never scored nearly enough goals from midfield. Also, can't remember very many set piece goals.

What happened Tony Daley's form around then? Ray Houghton was pushing on alright by then, had a brilliant game v Inter that I recall but didn't start the league cup final. Graham Fenton never really kicked on either.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 05, 2020, 05:48:19 PM
Our strikers were never scoring thirty a season but they were decent enough. Those stats back up my theory that we never scored nearly enough goals from midfield. Also, can't remember very many set piece goals.

What happened Tony Daley's form around then? Ray Houghton was pushing on alright by then, had a brilliant game v Inter that I recall but didn't start the league cup final. Graham Fenton never really kicked on either.

Again, I don't think BFR really fancied Daley. Houghton was a bit hit & miss all the time he was here and Fenton just never made the breakthrough.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: FatSam on April 05, 2020, 05:50:39 PM
During the lockdown I've been bingeing on Nessun Dorma podcast about 80s and 90s football. I've listened to a couple of episodes recently that touch on the 92/93 season; S2 Ep3: Oldham Athletic 1989-1994 (https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/s2-ep3-oldham-athletic-1989-1994/id1289256948?i=1000424768947) which in part discusses our loss at home to Oldham which sealed the title for Man U, and S1 Ep19: Man United Finally Win The Title (https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/s1-ep19-man-united-finally-win-the-title/id1289256948?i=1000410430563) which obviously covers that whole season, but from their perspective.

I was at school at the time and only went to a few games that season. My recall is poor at the best of times, and I've realised that my memories of the season are very sporadic. I'd forgotten for example that we beat Man U twice at home before Christmas, in the league and league cup. On the podcast Rob Smyth talks about how pivotal the signing of Cantona was in changing the culture and attitude at Man U, and pulling their form together. We obviously bought Saunders early in the season, which made us a lot more competitive also.

Many key players (with a few notable exceptions) were 30 and older by 94. With hindsight it doesn't look like Atkinson had a very sustainable attitude to squad-building. Little's work in the summer of 95 obviously rectified this, but I suppose in an ideal world it wouldn't have been necessary. The best managers are able to re-build from a position of strength, often breaking up a successful team to rejuvenate it.



Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 05, 2020, 06:15:13 PM
We only once had a 12 league goals a season man under Atkinson, never mind 20 or 30 a year.

Yeah but, as a partnership, they scored a fair few for a while. Saunders was always working his arse off all over the pitch, too, so may well have scored more if we had invested in a more energetic, youthful, midfield to do more work for him.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 05, 2020, 06:21:08 PM
Saunders didn't score many as he wasn't that good for a record signing. And if both strikers barely get into double figures each season then it really isn't a partnership that scores a fair few.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Mister E on April 05, 2020, 07:16:22 PM
This for sure, we stopped scoring goals and a bit of luck went against us and it all went with Manure, the day they beat Sheff Wed and I think we drew with Coventry.

Was that the day when Manure were given 9 minutes of 'Fergie' time by the referee?
We drew 1-1 vs Coventry and played very lethargically. Manc did indeed enjoy over 7 minutes of extra time when Spud'ead scored a winner.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 05, 2020, 07:20:35 PM
There were quite a few pointing out at the time that we didn't have 20+ a season strikers. Made it all the more galling that we missed out on Shearer and Sutton in consecutive seasons.

Interestingly ,Man Utd only once in the 90s had a 20 goals a season striker in the league (Yorke 99/00). It didn't hurt them too much, don't think they were as successful when having to rely on RVN in later years for the bulk of their goals.

Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 05, 2020, 07:23:51 PM
Personally I always saw 1990 as more of a missed opportunity to 1993. I came out of White Hart Lane in late February convinced we would win the title. But instead of kicking on we immediately lost at home to Wimbledon and away to Coventry (I think Mountfield got injured at Coventry and was out for a while). We dropped points at QPR and lost to poor Palace and Man City sides. We relied too much on Platt for our goals, Ian Olney was young and knackered after leading the line all season and Cascarino didn't hit the ground running. 1992-1993 was our Ipswich season. We played Manure three times and beat them twice and drew once. It was looking good when we won at Forest but the next week we drew with Coventry whilst Bruce scored those late goals for Manure against Wednesday. We then lost our last three games which made United's triumph look far more emphatic then it was prior to the last but one game.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 05, 2020, 07:25:15 PM
This for sure, we stopped scoring goals and a bit of luck went against us and it all went with Manure, the day they beat Sheff Wed and I think we drew with Coventry.

Was that the day when Manure were given 9 minutes of 'Fergie' time by the referee?
We drew 1-1 vs Coventry and played very lethargically. Manc did indeed enjoy over 7 minutes of extra time when Spud'ead scored a winner.

Not that it makes much difference but Coventry was 0-0 not 1-1.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 05, 2020, 07:43:50 PM
I think we have all stated this before but if we kept Yorke up front in 1993 we might have won it. Dalian was well off the pace when he came back the last games of that season.
The following year we obviously showed our quality in the cup but BFR came up with a 433 trying to accommodate Whittingham  up front as well as Atkinson and Saunders and this didn't really do anything for all three of them. And in midfield Townsend had replaced Garry Parker who was more deadly in front of goal - Townsend didn't really set the place on fire until Little was our boss. Him and Richardson were maybe too similar. Atkinson, Daley and Saunders aside, we weren't the paciest team either at a time when the speed of the game was changing.
I suppose the lack of consistent scorers ultimately cost BFR his job. Deano actually thrived for a short time down to having Fashanu alongside him but injuries and other interests sidelined Fash and Ron seemed not to trust Yorke too much towards the end while Dalian was too lethargic. Performances were pretty attractive in the 14 games or so that ended BFRs reign but we had problems finishing the chances we made.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 05, 2020, 07:55:08 PM
I'm not sure the like sof Whittingham, Phil King and Fashanu were good enough to replace the players from 92/93 that needed replacing.

Townsend came in too that summer and was certainly a very good signing for the club. United signed Roy Keane though. Blackburn had signed a young Alan Shearer the season before. BFR seemed to prefer the experienced pro though.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 05, 2020, 08:04:44 PM
I'm not sure the like sof Whittingham, Phil King and Fashanu were good enough to replace the players from 92/93 that needed replacing.

Townsend came in too that summer and was certainly a very good signing for the club. United signed Roy Keane though. Blackburn had signed a young Alan Shearer the season before. BFR seemed to prefer the experienced pro though.

He wanted Shearer and Le Tissier. The latter wasn't going anywhere and the former was offered 15k a week by Blackburn when we were paying 4 at most.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 05, 2020, 08:18:01 PM
Our strikers were never scoring thirty a season but they were decent enough. Those stats back up my theory that we never scored nearly enough goals from midfield. Also, can't remember very many set piece goals.

What happened Tony Daley's form around then? Ray Houghton was pushing on alright by then, had a brilliant game v Inter that I recall but didn't start the league cup final. Graham Fenton never really kicked on either.

Again, I don't think BFR really fancied Daley. Houghton was a bit hit & miss all the time he was here and Fenton just never made the breakthrough.
Didn't Tony Daley have a bad injury at the start of that season and only came back in around March time? It happened the previous season as well when Robson clattered him against ManUre at Villa Park early in the season. Robson went on to dive to win a penalty late in that game as well if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 05, 2020, 08:19:51 PM
BFR had excellent teams at Albion, Manure and Villa who could beat anyone on their day and he had good runs in Europe and victories in cup competitions. But third place with Albion, two third places with Manure and second place with Villa were his best top flight seasons. I must admit until I looked it up I didn't realise he had never managed a second place finish with United. 1992-1993 with Villa was his best top flight season.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Richard E on April 05, 2020, 08:20:16 PM
I remember saying to my mate after a rubbish game at Maine Road that if someone really had offered a million quid (it might even have been less than that) for Dwight Yorke we should have bitten their hand off. Doh!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: algy on April 05, 2020, 08:22:29 PM
Sadly, it seems that Sir Brian was great at getting a team winning games, but when things didn't go for him, he was unable to change things. His career seemed to keep going the same way when he left Villa good start, bad run, end.
I think it fell apart when John Gregory left as assistant manager. Somehow I reckon that combination was more than the sum of it's parts.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 05, 2020, 08:22:43 PM
Our strikers were never scoring thirty a season but they were decent enough. Those stats back up my theory that we never scored nearly enough goals from midfield. Also, can't remember very many set piece goals.

What happened Tony Daley's form around then? Ray Houghton was pushing on alright by then, had a brilliant game v Inter that I recall but didn't start the league cup final. Graham Fenton never really kicked on either.

Again, I don't think BFR really fancied Daley. Houghton was a bit hit & miss all the time he was here and Fenton just never made the breakthrough.
Didn't Tony Daley have a bad injury at the start of that season and only came back in around March time? It happened the previous season as well when Robson clattered him against ManUre at Villa Park early in the season. Robson went on to dive to win a penalty late in that game as well if I remember correctly.



The only time I can recall Tony Daley missing half a season was 1987-1988. I seem to recall Daley, Garry Thompson and Allan Evans were all out injured until November at least. Fortunately we still had Mark Walters up until around the same time Daley was fit.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 05, 2020, 09:01:52 PM
I had a quick look. Tony Daley played 3 of the first 4 games and the didn't play again until the frustrating 0-0 against Spurs (when Dean Saunders underhit his shot and Edinburgh cleared it off the line) on 10th March.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 05, 2020, 09:19:36 PM
For all the supposed flair and great football we played under Atkinson goalscoring was always pretty crap. Even in 92/93 we were only 8th highest scorers, Oldham who stayed up on GD scored more than us. I think it was 26 times we scored 0 or 1. In 91/92 we had that pathetic run of 1 goal in 11 league games. 93/94 we were 16th highest scorers, even bottom of the table Swindon scored more than us.

That's mad about 92/93. In the games we scored none or one were we still easy on the eye?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 05, 2020, 09:31:26 PM
No one has mentioned Steve Froggatt yet I don't think? He was fantastic up till around the New Year of 93 until his injury. He set up a fair few of Saunders goals that season and was never the same - or fancied by Ron - after his return. He was either out of favour due to Tony Daley playing or not suited to the 433 Ron played in the first half of 93-94. We were usually still very attractive to watch but there was always a car crash game such as Coventry away on Boxing Day. The poor run of results following our Wembley win in 94 showed we had taken our foot off the gas but also if you look at those games - and Ron has admitted as much in his first book - we had a frequently changed and experimental lineup for the last ten games or so. Ehiogu, Fenton, Farrell, Beinlich and Breitkreutz all came in for games at the expense of some of the older players. Ehiogu became a regular but the other four were either canned or put on the bench. Why he sold Cox and Froggatt I never could understand at the time but they were both quality. Phil King was all right but Lamptey was too young and again didnt feature much, even when Ron signed him for Coventry.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: AV82EC on April 05, 2020, 09:38:32 PM
Frogatt was never the same player after the assault by those clogging Wimbledon wankers in the Atkinson Goal game that season.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 05, 2020, 09:43:36 PM
Frogatt was never the same player after the assault by those clogging Wimbledon wankers in the Atkinson Goal game that season.

I watched the highlights of that game the other day for first time in ages. The second Saunders goal was after a fantastic one two with Houghton. We either scored stunning solo goals that season or goals after a lovely build up. Garry Parker's opener at Sheffield United that season was fabulous, I am amazed it doesn't get mentioned more when we reminiscing about classic goals.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 05, 2020, 10:32:08 PM
I'm not sure the like sof Whittingham, Phil King and Fashanu were good enough to replace the players from 92/93 that needed replacing.

Townsend came in too that summer and was certainly a very good signing for the club. United signed Roy Keane though. Blackburn had signed a young Alan Shearer the season before. BFR seemed to prefer the experienced pro though.

He wanted Shearer and Le Tissier. The latter wasn't going anywhere and the former was offered 15k a week by Blackburn when we were paying 4 at most.

Interesting, Ellis too mean I guess?

Would have thought we were reasonable wage payers at the time, given we signed three experienced players from Liverpool?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 05, 2020, 10:33:44 PM
I'm not sure the like sof Whittingham, Phil King and Fashanu were good enough to replace the players from 92/93 that needed replacing.

Townsend came in too that summer and was certainly a very good signing for the club. United signed Roy Keane though. Blackburn had signed a young Alan Shearer the season before. BFR seemed to prefer the experienced pro though.

He wanted Shearer and Le Tissier. The latter wasn't going anywhere and the former was offered 15k a week by Blackburn when we were paying 4 at most.

Interesting, Ellis too mean I guess?

Would have thought we were reasonable wage payers at the time, given we signed three experienced players from Liverpool?

Jack Walker came along and blew everyone else out of the water. Nobody could compete with Blackburn at that time.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 05, 2020, 10:39:23 PM
BFR had excellent teams at Albion, Manure and Villa who could beat anyone on their day and he had good runs in Europe and victories in cup competitions. But third place with Albion, two third places with Manure and second place with Villa were his best top flight seasons. I must admit until I looked it up I didn't realise he had never managed a second place finish with United. 1992-1993 with Villa was his best top flight season.

Didn't they blow up league winning chances under BFR too? United fans would put a lot of it down to Atkinson not enforcing discipline with his players off the pitch, particularly his best three McGrath, Robson and Whiteside.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 06, 2020, 12:31:40 AM
Thought I had read before that we were keen on Roy Keane summer of '93 and ended-up with Townsend instead.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 06, 2020, 12:33:11 AM
Thought I had read before that we were keen on Roy Keane summer of '93 and ended-up with Townsend instead.

Ron would have liked him but a choice between them and us, and they win every time.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 06, 2020, 12:39:07 AM
Townsend was pretty good, to be fair. The problem wasn't signing him. It was not signing other players of his calibre.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 06, 2020, 01:05:03 AM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: JD on April 06, 2020, 05:51:19 AM
This for sure, we stopped scoring goals and a bit of luck went against us and it all went with Manure, the day they beat Sheff Wed and I think we drew with Coventry.

Was that the day when Manure were given 9 minutes of 'Fergie' time by the referee?

It was. I don't know how we never beat Coventry that day. I remember that I was halfway back to London when the Manure game ended.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Richie on April 06, 2020, 06:27:14 AM
Frogatt was never the same player after the assault by those clogging Wimbledon wankers in the Atkinson Goal game that season.

I watched the highlights of that game the other day for first time in ages. The second Saunders goal was after a fantastic one two with Houghton. We either scored stunning solo goals that season or goals after a lovely build up. Garry Parker's opener at Sheffield United that season was fabulous, I am amazed it doesn't get mentioned more when we reminiscing about classic goals.

We definitely did score some stunners that season. For a team move, the opener against Sheffield Wednesday in the 2-0 home win is right up there with one of the best I’ve ever seen us score. We literally passed them to death and then laid it on a plate for Dwight to tap home.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 06, 2020, 09:21:06 AM
Frogatt was never the same player after the assault by those clogging Wimbledon wankers in the Atkinson Goal game that season.

I watched the highlights of that game the other day for first time in ages. The second Saunders goal was after a fantastic one two with Houghton. We either scored stunning solo goals that season or goals after a lovely build up. Garry Parker's opener at Sheffield United that season was fabulous, I am amazed it doesn't get mentioned more when we reminiscing about classic goals.

We definitely did score some stunners that season. For a team move, the opener against Sheffield Wednesday in the 2-0 home win is right up there with one of the best I’ve ever seen us score. We literally passed them to death and then laid it on a plate for Dwight to tap home.

I still think that's the best 90 minutes I've seen from a Villa side. They were a good side and hadn't lost in ages, and we tore them to shreds, Chris Woods was outstanding for them in goal.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 06, 2020, 10:15:50 AM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.


I think Brian little was going through some personal problems towards the end of his reign at Villa. I believe he went through a divorce.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: KevinGage on April 06, 2020, 10:29:28 AM
Keane was open to the idea of moving to Villa when Clough let him first know of our interest back in Oct/Nov 92. Ultimately Clough blocked the move after losing Sheringham not long before.

Froggatt and Atkinson not getting heavy duty injuries in 92 (the former was directly responsible for many of Deano's early goals during his most prolific era for the club) and signing Keane  = we win the league that year and have a good chance of doing so again in 93/94.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: BC Villain on April 06, 2020, 12:33:41 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Pretty clear reading Dwight Yorke's book that he didn't have a lot of time for Stan Collymore.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 06, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Keane was open to the idea of moving to Villa when Clough let him first know of our interest back in Oct/Nov 92. Ultimately Clough blocked the move after losing Sheringham not long before.

Froggatt and Atkinson not getting heavy duty injuries in 92 (the former was directly responsible for many of Deano's early goals during his most prolific era for the club) and signing Keane  = we win the league that year and have a good chance of doing so again in 93/94.

Keane had his choice of clubs at the time. He infamously shook hands with Dalglish on a deal to sign for Blackburn only to renege on it over a weekend and sign for United. Interestingly it was the only signing they made that summer. United under Edwards were fairly tight too when it came to spending. Paul McGrath when he signed for them was getting less wages than he was playing for St Pat's and working as a part time security guard.

Had Bosnich already nailed the number one spot by the end of 92/93? Maybe they weren't ready but in hindsight BFR should have shown more faith possibly in the likes of Ugo and obviously Yorke.

In later years, I seem to recall us being very close to the top in Littles first season before drifting away. The failure to sign Juninho is often pointed at as a lack of ambition but it can't be said for going all out and getting Collymore. Unfortunately he destroyed the team and Little.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: KevinGage on April 06, 2020, 12:57:46 PM
Keane was open to the idea of moving to Villa when Clough let him first know of our interest back in Oct/Nov 92. Ultimately Clough blocked the move after losing Sheringham not long before.

Froggatt and Atkinson not getting heavy duty injuries in 92 (the former was directly responsible for many of Deano's early goals during his most prolific era for the club) and signing Keane  = we win the league that year and have a good chance of doing so again in 93/94.

Keane had his choice of clubs at the time. He infamously shook hands with Dalglish on a deal to sign for Blackburn only to renege on it over a weekend and sign for United. Interestingly it was the only signing they made that summer. United under Edwards were fairly tight too when it came to spending. Paul McGrath when he signed for them was getting less wages than he was playing for St Pat's and working as a part time security guard.

Had Bosnich already nailed the number one spot by the end of 92/93? Maybe they weren't ready but in hindsight BFR should have shown more faith possibly in the likes of Ugo and obviously Yorke.

In later years, I seem to recall us being very close to the top in Littles first season before drifting away. The failure to sign Juninho is often pointed at as a lack of ambition but it can't be said for going all out and getting Collymore. Unfortunately he destroyed the team and Little.

It was Blackburn and Villa interested in Oct/ Nov 92.  Man U weren't mentioned at the time. But obv the following summer with Robson a year older and featuring in less games = different story.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: AV82EC on April 06, 2020, 02:00:08 PM
Keane was open to the idea of moving to Villa when Clough let him first know of our interest back in Oct/Nov 92. Ultimately Clough blocked the move after losing Sheringham not long before.

Froggatt and Atkinson not getting heavy duty injuries in 92 (the former was directly responsible for many of Deano's early goals during his most prolific era for the club) and signing Keane  = we win the league that year and have a good chance of doing so again in 93/94.

Keane had his choice of clubs at the time. He infamously shook hands with Dalglish on a deal to sign for Blackburn only to renege on it over a weekend and sign for United. Interestingly it was the only signing they made that summer. United under Edwards were fairly tight too when it came to spending. Paul McGrath when he signed for them was getting less wages than he was playing for St Pat's and working as a part time security guard.

Had Bosnich already nailed the number one spot by the end of 92/93? Maybe they weren't ready but in hindsight BFR should have shown more faith possibly in the likes of Ugo and obviously Yorke.

In later years, I seem to recall us being very close to the top in Littles first season before drifting away. The failure to sign Juninho is often pointed at as a lack of ambition but it can't be said for going all out and getting Collymore. Unfortunately he destroyed the team and Little.

Not forgetting we signed Curcic that summer as well as Collymore. The fact both of them were suffering from depression and mental health problems shows, despite I would suggest strengthening, it actually weakened us as it unsettled the squad. It was a shame as we were getting back on track. Still good UEFA cup run in 97/98.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 06, 2020, 02:24:26 PM
Regarding our transfer business in the summer of 93, I think at that time Townsend was considered on a par with Keane and Whittingham had scored shed loads in Div 2 season before so looked a good signing on paper. The following summer when Ron went to the world cup and came back with Fashanu was the real WTF signing.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 06, 2020, 02:32:32 PM
Keane was open to the idea of moving to Villa when Clough let him first know of our interest back in Oct/Nov 92. Ultimately Clough blocked the move after losing Sheringham not long before.

Froggatt and Atkinson not getting heavy duty injuries in 92 (the former was directly responsible for many of Deano's early goals during his most prolific era for the club) and signing Keane  = we win the league that year and have a good chance of doing so again in 93/94.

Keane had his choice of clubs at the time. He infamously shook hands with Dalglish on a deal to sign for Blackburn only to renege on it over a weekend and sign for United. Interestingly it was the only signing they made that summer. United under Edwards were fairly tight too when it came to spending. Paul McGrath when he signed for them was getting less wages than he was playing for St Pat's and working as a part time security guard.

Had Bosnich already nailed the number one spot by the end of 92/93? Maybe they weren't ready but in hindsight BFR should have shown more faith possibly in the likes of Ugo and obviously Yorke.

In later years, I seem to recall us being very close to the top in Littles first season before drifting away. The failure to sign Juninho is often pointed at as a lack of ambition but it can't be said for going all out and getting Collymore. Unfortunately he destroyed the team and Little.

Not forgetting we signed Curcic that summer as well as Collymore. The fact both of them were suffering from depression and mental health problems shows, despite I would suggest strengthening, it actually weakened us as it unsettled the squad. It was a shame as we were getting back on track. Still good UEFA cup run in 97/98.

We signd Curcic in 1996 and Collymore the summer after.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 06, 2020, 02:40:44 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.


I think Brian little was going through some personal problems towards the end of his reign at Villa. I believe he went through a divorce.

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 06, 2020, 02:46:32 PM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 06, 2020, 02:50:15 PM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.

That rings a bell. The old dog (him, not her!)
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 06, 2020, 03:31:19 PM
Does he talk about it in his recent memoir?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: AV82EC on April 06, 2020, 03:53:10 PM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.

That rings a bell. The old dog (him, not her!)

If memory recalls she had photos of herself and Brian and he paid £5k for them if you believe what she told Baker and Kelly. I think Dave you revealed on here many years ago that the bagman/driver for the cash was one Dave Chance?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 06, 2020, 04:43:25 PM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.

That rings a bell. The old dog (him, not her!)

If memory recalls she had photos of herself and Brian and he paid £5k for them if you believe what she told Baker and Kelly. I think Dave you revealed on here many years ago that the bagman/driver for the cash was one Dave Chance?

She was also shagging two of the players, one of whom allegedly 'showed her around the offices' when he subsequently joined us.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 06, 2020, 04:44:02 PM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.

That rings a bell. The old dog (him, not her!)

If memory recalls she had photos of herself and Brian and he paid £5k for them if you believe what she told Baker and Kelly. I think Dave you revealed on here many years ago that the bagman/driver for the cash was one Dave Chance?

I certainly did not.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 06, 2020, 04:44:46 PM
What?! Sounds more like that Sky One Dream Team drama.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 06, 2020, 05:14:52 PM
No wonder we started the 97-98 season so badly with four straight defeats including a 0-4 pounding by Blackburn at home. Sounds like there was a lot going on!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 06, 2020, 05:31:44 PM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.

That rings a bell. The old dog (him, not her!)

If memory recalls she had photos of herself and Brian and he paid £5k for them if you believe what she told Baker and Kelly. I think Dave you revealed on here many years ago that the bagman/driver for the cash was one Dave Chance?

She was also shagging two of the players, one of whom allegedly 'showed her around the offices' when he subsequently joined us.

Wft...😄.....did that player recently have a fleeting role in the Sunderland doc on Netflix?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: AV82EC on April 06, 2020, 06:55:24 PM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.

That rings a bell. The old dog (him, not her!)

If memory recalls she had photos of herself and Brian and he paid £5k for them if you believe what she told Baker and Kelly. I think Dave you revealed on here many years ago that the bagman/driver for the cash was one Dave Chance?

I certainly did not.

Apologies, must have been someone else then when it was discussed eons ago.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 06, 2020, 08:50:21 PM
I shared an apartment in Tenerife for a while in the mid nineties with a friend of a friend who was a Leicester fan (he actually moved in with me until he could find his own place on the day of the Leicester v Villa game when the big fuss was being made in the media about Little being a Judas). If what my mate from Leicester (Stevo) told me was true Brian Little's missus was rumoured to have cheated on Little with more than one Leicester player.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Grande Pablo on April 06, 2020, 09:54:36 PM
This for sure, we stopped scoring goals and a bit of luck went against us and it all went with Manure, the day they beat Sheff Wed and I think we drew with Coventry.

That day we drew vs Coventry I recall quite an odious kid Leigh Jenkinson time wasting from the first minute for them.

I'd walked to the Birchfield Road, got on a 51, we'd made it in the traffic to the Scott Arms when Manure's Fergie time goal went in.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: tomd2103 on April 06, 2020, 11:32:17 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed Ginola, Asprilla etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 06, 2020, 11:34:07 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 07, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
Or moreso the money factor? Can't see what else Blackburn, Newcastle or Middlesbrough had over Brum.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 07, 2020, 12:29:25 AM
Or moreso the money factor? Can't see what else Blackburn, Newcastle or Middlesbrough had over Brum.

Blackburn didn't buy many foreign players, the one Newcastle bought seemed to fuck them up (Asprilla, Kluivert), Middlesbrough paid daft money. 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: FatSam on April 07, 2020, 12:31:35 AM
The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

That has definitely been a factor in the EPL years, but Ravanelli rocked-up in Middlesbrough after Euro 96 having scored a few weeks earlier for Juventus in the CL final, and there are other examples. There was maybe just a different attitude to risk and reward in B6.

We'd obviously had a good season leading up to Euro 96, and Little's early signings had been largely successful. I suppose that it is at these moments though that Villa have perennially failed to push on to the next level. Whilst it's difficult to argue with the intent shown by signing Collymore, with hindsight the signings between summer 95 and autumn 98 were largely underwhelming - and even Merson and Dublin at this point were (not directly) filling holes left by departures like Milosevic and Yorke.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 07, 2020, 12:35:11 AM
The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

That has definitely been a factor in the EPL years, but Ravanelli rocked-up in Middlesbrough after Euro 96 having scored a few weeks earlier for Juventus in the CL final, and there are other examples. There was maybe just a different attitude to risk and reward in B6.

We'd obviously had a good season leading up to Euro 96, and Little's early signings had been largely successful. I suppose that it is at these moments though that Villa have perennially failed to push on to the next level. Whilst it's difficult to argue with the intent shown by signing Collymore, with hindsight the signings between summer 95 and autumn 98 were largely underwhelming - and even Merson and Dublin at this point were (not directly) filling holes left by departures like Milosevic and Yorke.

Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: FatSam on April 07, 2020, 12:52:46 AM
Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.


Fair enough.

It obviously depends to a significant extent how successful things are on the pitch, but perhaps the biggest lost opportunity in the 90s was not scaling-up our commercial operations in the same way that Man U were doing. I remember hearing somewhere (so don't know how accurate it is) that Man U had opened offices in London in the early/ mid 90s and had a team who were driving sponsorship and international connections etc. At the same time Doug was concentrating on stadium redevelopment using an in-house construction manager to save a few quid.

I can't help bringing it back Doug, I think it's ingrained!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 07, 2020, 12:55:23 AM
Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.


Fair enough.

It obviously depends to a significant extent how successful things are on the pitch, but perhaps the biggest lost opportunity in the 90s was not scaling-up our commercial operations in the same way that Man U were doing. I remember hearing somewhere (so don't know how accurate it is) that Man U had opened offices in London in the early/ mid 90s and had a team who were driving sponsorship and international connections etc. At the same time Doug was concentrating on stadium redevelopment using an in-house construction manager to save a few quid.

I can't help bringing it back Doug, I think it's ingrained!

I could write chapter and verse on our failure to exploit the way football exploded post-1993. In fact, I have many times.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 01:58:37 AM
Ravanelli was on 40k a week at Boro. Around 150k in today's terms.

That said he was available in 1997 and would've been more effective than Collymore who must've been on a similar wedge when he signed.

Shame we couldn't have got Les Ferdiand in the years he was linked, him and Yorke would've been nice combination.

Oh to go back to seasons where finishing 5th was considered big underachievement as in 96/97.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 07, 2020, 02:29:34 AM
Pretty sure collymore was on about 19k with us. 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 07, 2020, 10:59:04 AM
Pretty sure collymore was on about 19k with us. 

Didn't he have a clause that stated he had to be the highest-paid player? If so, that'll have gone up a few times.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 07, 2020, 11:17:18 AM

Wasn't he having an affair with someone who was documenting it week-by-week via Dannys Baker & Kelly?

It was apparently an old one from his time at Leicester.

That rings a bell. The old dog (him, not her!)

His time at Stoke post Villa ended with some similar off field sheaningans....
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 07, 2020, 11:57:51 AM
I'll never understand why hardcore shaggers ever think that it's a good idea to get married.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 07, 2020, 12:09:46 PM
I thought Brian was docile and nice. Sounds like a right bastard.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Mister E on April 07, 2020, 12:59:54 PM
The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

That has definitely been a factor in the EPL years, but Ravanelli rocked-up in Middlesbrough after Euro 96 having scored a few weeks earlier for Juventus in the CL final, and there are other examples. There was maybe just a different attitude to risk and reward in B6.

We'd obviously had a good season leading up to Euro 96, and Little's early signings had been largely successful. I suppose that it is at these moments though that Villa have perennially failed to push on to the next level. Whilst it's difficult to argue with the intent shown by signing Collymore, with hindsight the signings between summer 95 and autumn 98 were largely underwhelming - and even Merson and Dublin at this point were (not directly) filling holes left by departures like Milosevic and Yorke.

Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.
Curcic and Thompson were excellent signings, based on their career to date. Both bombed badly at the Villa. Isn't that what really did for Little's managerial career with us?

Well, apart from all the shagging that appears to have been going one!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 07, 2020, 01:13:19 PM
The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

That has definitely been a factor in the EPL years, but Ravanelli rocked-up in Middlesbrough after Euro 96 having scored a few weeks earlier for Juventus in the CL final, and there are other examples. There was maybe just a different attitude to risk and reward in B6.

We'd obviously had a good season leading up to Euro 96, and Little's early signings had been largely successful. I suppose that it is at these moments though that Villa have perennially failed to push on to the next level. Whilst it's difficult to argue with the intent shown by signing Collymore, with hindsight the signings between summer 95 and autumn 98 were largely underwhelming - and even Merson and Dublin at this point were (not directly) filling holes left by departures like Milosevic and Yorke.

Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.
Curcic and Thompson were excellent signings, based on their career to date. Both bombed badly at the Villa. Isn't that what really did for Little's managerial career with us?

Well, apart from all the shagging that appears to have been going one!

If you mean Collymore not Thompson, then yes, it probably did.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Mister E on April 07, 2020, 01:18:30 PM
The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

That has definitely been a factor in the EPL years, but Ravanelli rocked-up in Middlesbrough after Euro 96 having scored a few weeks earlier for Juventus in the CL final, and there are other examples. There was maybe just a different attitude to risk and reward in B6.

We'd obviously had a good season leading up to Euro 96, and Little's early signings had been largely successful. I suppose that it is at these moments though that Villa have perennially failed to push on to the next level. Whilst it's difficult to argue with the intent shown by signing Collymore, with hindsight the signings between summer 95 and autumn 98 were largely underwhelming - and even Merson and Dublin at this point were (not directly) filling holes left by departures like Milosevic and Yorke.

Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.
Curcic and Thompson were excellent signings, based on their career to date. Both bombed badly at the Villa. Isn't that what really did for Little's managerial career with us?

Well, apart from all the shagging that appears to have been going one!

If you mean Collymore not Thompson, then yes, it probably did.
I thought Little brought in Alan Thompson? - ah, no; 1998 he joined us.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 07, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
Thompson didn't really bomb, he had a decent start and then looked pretty average for the rest of his Villa career.

I've always said that the thing that fucked us up more than anything in the 90's was the signings of Curcic and Collymore. Two massively talented nut jobs, we broke our transfer record both times and although they were definately the type of players we needed at each time it was quite quickly obvious that they were not the right characters. Who do you blame, the manager that signed them, the players themselves, the people around the manager who you would hope would be advising on such things or maybe the culture of the club wasn't right for them? Maybe it was a combination of everything.
The other thing of course was Doug not just going the extra mile at critical times. The 92-93 starting 11 was as good as Man utd's but we didn't have the strength in depth. We were always a couple of good players short.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: tomd2103 on April 07, 2020, 02:04:05 PM
Ravanelli was on 40k a week at Boro. Around 150k in today's terms.

That said he was available in 1997 and would've been more effective than Collymore who must've been on a similar wedge when he signed.

Shame we couldn't have got Les Ferdiand in the years he was linked, him and Yorke would've been nice combination.

Oh to go back to seasons where finishing 5th was considered big underachievement as in 96/97.

Always thought that Dion Dublin would have made a real difference had we signed him a few years earlier.  He signed for Coventry in 1994 and was pretty much a 1 in 2 striker there.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: garyellis on April 07, 2020, 03:11:36 PM
Thompson didn't really bomb, he had a decent start and then looked pretty average for the rest of his Villa career.

I've always said that the thing that fucked us up more than anything in the 90's was the signings of Curcic and Collymore. Two massively talented nut jobs, we broke our transfer record both times and although they were definately the type of players we needed at each time it was quite quickly obvious that they were not the right characters. Who do you blame, the manager that signed them, the players themselves, the people around the manager who you would hope would be advising on such things or maybe the culture of the club wasn't right for them? Maybe it was a combination of everything.
The other thing of course was Doug not just going the extra mile at critical times. The 92-93 starting 11 was as good as Man utd's but we didn't have the strength in depth. We were always a couple of good players short.
This 100% is my take on it. If only Collymore had been our Cantona I also thought Curcic would do for us what McManaman did for Liverpool just give us something different. Ah well it wasn't to be
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 07, 2020, 03:41:56 PM
The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

That has definitely been a factor in the EPL years, but Ravanelli rocked-up in Middlesbrough after Euro 96 having scored a few weeks earlier for Juventus in the CL final, and there are other examples. There was maybe just a different attitude to risk and reward in B6.

We'd obviously had a good season leading up to Euro 96, and Little's early signings had been largely successful. I suppose that it is at these moments though that Villa have perennially failed to push on to the next level. Whilst it's difficult to argue with the intent shown by signing Collymore, with hindsight the signings between summer 95 and autumn 98 were largely underwhelming - and even Merson and Dublin at this point were (not directly) filling holes left by departures like Milosevic and Yorke.

Little said that he bought the sort of players he wanted. Unfortunately, that's one thing Doug can't be blamed for.
Curcic and Thompson were excellent signings, based on their career to date. Both bombed badly at the Villa. Isn't that what really did for Little's managerial career with us?

Well, apart from all the shagging that appears to have been going one!

Mark Draper's form if I recall correctly dropped off a cliff too. He was outstanding in Little's early seasons.

Thompson did very well for MON up in Celtic, though think he had a bit of a refuelling habit aswell. Curcic and Collymore careers went into free fall.

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 07, 2020, 04:19:37 PM

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent. 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 07, 2020, 04:23:16 PM

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent. 

Yep. Some deeply uninspiring signings. Didn't know about the agent thing.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 07, 2020, 05:28:12 PM

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent.

That's a very good point. Imagine Little, Big Ron (even dare I say it O'Leary-his signings were good- Laursen, Bouma, Sorensen, McCann) with that money in the late 90's-early 00s.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 07, 2020, 05:50:18 PM
Gregory and O'Neill were cut from the same cloth. Signing over-priced, average British players in the main and struggled to break teams down from open play with some desperately poor home displays; more than the average amount for a 6th-placed standard team in their seasons in charge.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 07, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
It would have been interesting to see how the 1989-1990 side who were runners up under SGT would have developed if he had stayed in charge. I think God, Sid and Platt aside it was a fair less talented side than the '92/'93 side and the 89/90 side overachieved. But SGT would surely have been aware of that and would have strengthened. It should be pointed out that when BFR took over in 1991 after the terrible Dr Jo season BFR had the opportunity to build practically a new team due to the amount of cash we got for David Platt.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithe on April 07, 2020, 06:15:35 PM
Juninho may have taken care of the lack of creativity in open play.

Gregory’s dealing were murky mind
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 07, 2020, 06:43:27 PM
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 07, 2020, 07:11:25 PM
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/26/newsstory.sport7.....Merson was with us from 98/02 . So not sure how they were meant to play together. We were top of the table at the time but Juninho was coming back from a broken leg at the time so it was risky enough. Juninhos career never kicked on afterwards either, flopped at Celtic under MON.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 07, 2020, 07:15:41 PM
Merson, Juninho, Dublin and Robbie Keane. In a parallel universe we broke every goalscoring record going.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 07:43:45 PM
Keane was open to the idea of moving to Villa when Clough let him first know of our interest back in Oct/Nov 92. Ultimately Clough blocked the move after losing Sheringham not long before.

Froggatt and Atkinson not getting heavy duty injuries in 92 (the former was directly responsible for many of Deano's early goals during his most prolific era for the club) and signing Keane  = we win the league that year and have a good chance of doing so again in 93/94.

Keane had his choice of clubs at the time. He infamously shook hands with Dalglish on a deal to sign for Blackburn only to renege on it over a weekend and sign for United. Interestingly it was the only signing they made that summer. United under Edwards were fairly tight too when it came to spending. Paul McGrath when he signed for them was getting less wages than he was playing for St Pat's and working as a part time security guard.

Had Bosnich already nailed the number one spot by the end of 92/93? Maybe they weren't ready but in hindsight BFR should have shown more faith possibly in the likes of Ugo and obviously Yorke.

In later years, I seem to recall us being very close to the top in Littles first season before drifting away. The failure to sign Juninho is often pointed at as a lack of ambition but it can't be said for going all out and getting Collymore. Unfortunately he destroyed the team and Little.

Not forgetting we signed Curcic that summer as well as Collymore. The fact both of them were suffering from depression and mental health problems shows, despite I would suggest strengthening, it actually weakened us as it unsettled the squad. It was a shame as we were getting back on track. Still good UEFA cup run in 97/98.

Surprised we didn't explore the european markets more in those times. We signed Savo and also Fernando Nelson who were solid but that was it over I think 3-4 summers. Was that due to Sir Brian just wanting premier league experience like so many since in the hotseat? Were pretty close to signing Roberto Carlos in 1995 from Inter and Brian says in his latest book Doug was about to sign Danny Blind behind his back in 1996 (Sir Brian didn't think he'd be a good fit in the formation or quick enough for premier league).

Obviously couldn't compete with Boro or what Chelsea were offering with likes of Zola but I look at Newcastle signing Ginola and thinking that's the sort of player needed to push from 5th to at least 2nd again.

Simon Grayson signing in 1997 probably sums things up. A solid squad player but not as good as Townsend (he must've had a good offer from Boro to jump ship so early in 97 season) and served his purpose after 12 months.

Think it was also an error not to sign a CB in that time. Southgate missed chunks of both 96 and 97-98 with injury and I'd imagine defensive record was nowhere near as good. Ricardo Scimeca always seemed one of those who was massively hyped but seemed pretty average when he played and he too never kicked on and became another youth product who was a comfortable championship player.

Still overall a fantastic period of cup wins, playing in europe most seasons and still being one of the biggest clubs in the country on the pitch.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 07:52:09 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

Derby attracted guys like Igor Stimac and Asanovic who were good players for Croatia in euro 96 and comfortably helped newly promoted Derby finished 12th. Think Sheff Weds signed Di Canio and Carbone in the same summer (Di Canio was at Celtic at the time actually).

I certainly take the London factor but mid range prem clubs were exploiting the market more than we were at the time.In fairness in 96/97 we were only 7 points off 2nd and dropped a fair few points in the run in so weren't miles off going into summer 1997. Ultimately we staked everything on Stanley Victor and we know what happened.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 08:00:51 PM

Even in Gregory's time we were top of the table for quite some time and got to a cup final. Ellis gets blamed for a lot but he backed Gregory with crazy money for the likes of Steve Stone.

It was the one time when we had a comparatively large amount - from Yorkie's sale, the flotation and the NTL deal, which was incredibly good for us. Unfortunately, we had the most myopic manager you could wish for when it came to buying players, and IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE that all his signings seemed to have the same agent. 

Yep. Some deeply uninspiring signings. Didn't know about the agent thing.

Paul Stretford wasn't it.....

Gregory seemed to go from simply signing all British stock every summer to more exotic signings in short space of time so he must've heard a whisper he was being rumbled. Didn't he get sacked from Derby for misconduct?

2001 I thought we had a great transfer window. Solid premier league experience in Schmiechel, Hadji and Kachoul and an up and coming young striker called Bosko Balaban. In true Villa fashion they all bombed bar Mellberg who was a young CB with decent league and international experience when we signed him.

By then though the fire had gone out and we were going through the motions in league seasons. 2000 cup final was the end for JG really and most of the squad knew it with all of the transfer requests that happened straight after.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 07, 2020, 08:03:09 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

Derby attracted guys like Igor Stimac and Asanovic who were good players for Croatia in euro 96 and comfortably helped newly promoted Derby finished 12th. Think Sheff Weds signed Di Canio and Carbone in the same summer (Di Canio was at Celtic at the time actually).

I certainly take the London factor but mid range prem clubs were exploiting the market more than we were at the time.In fairness in 96/97 we were only 7 points off 2nd and dropped a fair few points in the run in so weren't miles off going into summer 1997. Ultimately we staked everything on Stanley Victor and we know what happened.

Were any of them better than we had?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 08:03:11 PM
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/26/newsstory.sport7.....Merson was with us from 98/02 . So not sure how they were meant to play together. We were top of the table at the time but Juninho was coming back from a broken leg at the time so it was risky enough. Juninhos career never kicked on afterwards either, flopped at Celtic under MON.

Juninho played for Boro for two spells after our near signing, was decent but didn't have the spark of his first spell there. I don't think he'd have won us the league either.

That said Carbone the next season did show the value of having a second striker who could drop off and link with midfield, he played in same 11 with Merson alright.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 08:07:48 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

Derby attracted guys like Igor Stimac and Asanovic who were good players for Croatia in euro 96 and comfortably helped newly promoted Derby finished 12th. Think Sheff Weds signed Di Canio and Carbone in the same summer (Di Canio was at Celtic at the time actually).

I certainly take the London factor but mid range prem clubs were exploiting the market more than we were at the time.In fairness in 96/97 we were only 7 points off 2nd and dropped a fair few points in the run in so weren't miles off going into summer 1997. Ultimately we staked everything on Stanley Victor and we know what happened.

Were any of them better than we had?

An international CB to step in when Ugo or Southgate weren't around instead of Scimeca or Carl Tiler would've been nice at least.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 07, 2020, 08:09:32 PM
Maybe, but you were still in the days of teams rather than squads then.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 07, 2020, 08:13:26 PM
Stimac was signed in 1995.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 07, 2020, 08:30:32 PM
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/26/newsstory.sport7.....Merson was with us from 98/02 . So not sure how they were meant to play together. We were top of the table at the time but Juninho was coming back from a broken leg at the time so it was risky enough. Juninhos career never kicked on afterwards either, flopped at Celtic under MON.


I had absolutely no recollection of Juninho playing for Celtic until reading that post. 14 games 1 goal apparently.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 08:33:05 PM
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/26/newsstory.sport7.....Merson was with us from 98/02 . So not sure how they were meant to play together. We were top of the table at the time but Juninho was coming back from a broken leg at the time so it was risky enough. Juninhos career never kicked on afterwards either, flopped at Celtic under MON.


I had absolutely no recollection of Juninho playing for Celtic until reading that post. 14 games 1 goal apparently.

MON probably played him at right back.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 07, 2020, 09:30:32 PM
Robbie Keane is probably the biggest 'what if' when you think of it. He could have been the one to take us on to the next level. At the very least, he would have had re-sale value to be re-invested unlike some of the older players we ended up with.

The post 2000 period was weird. We were 6th a few years in a row, League Cup semi-finalists, FA Cup finalists and all of a sudden a pile of players wanted out.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 07, 2020, 09:34:20 PM
Could you have played Juninho and Merson in the same team? Or were we linked with Juninho before we signed the latter? I've forgotten.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/26/newsstory.sport7.....Merson was with us from 98/02 . So not sure how they were meant to play together. We were top of the table at the time but Juninho was coming back from a broken leg at the time so it was risky enough. Juninhos career never kicked on afterwards either, flopped at Celtic under MON.

Juninho played for Boro for two spells after our near signing, was decent but didn't have the spark of his first spell there. I don't think he'd have won us the league either.

That said Carbone the next season did show the value of having a second striker who could drop off and link with midfield, he played in same 11 with Merson alright.

There was no excuse for not signing a young Robbie Keane from Wolves in 1999. Coventry got him instead. Would have been ideal for that second striker role playing off Dion Dublin.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: tomd2103 on April 07, 2020, 09:39:40 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

True Dave and suppose it has been a perennial problem. 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 11:10:47 PM
Robbie Keane is probably the biggest 'what if' when you think of it. He could have been the one to take us on to the next level. At the very least, he would have had re-sale value to be re-invested unlike some of the older players we ended up with.

The post 2000 period was weird. We were 6th a few years in a row, League Cup semi-finalists, FA Cup finalists and all of a sudden a pile of players wanted out.

They were all getting on and wanted one last payday. IIRC Southgate, Ugo, James and Merson all put in transfer requests. Perhaps Boateng aswell although he stayed a few more years.

Oh yes not signing Keane for another 500k was a major mess up aswell.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 08, 2020, 09:31:15 AM
Jules Joachim also handed in a transfer request (does any player do that anymore?!) which Gregory just took the piss out of.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: in exile on April 08, 2020, 09:49:45 AM
Jules, eh? How cosy  ;)
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Mister E on April 08, 2020, 11:05:47 AM
Jules Joachim also handed in a transfer request (does any player do that anymore?!) which Gregory just took the piss out of.
Eastie!!!! - welcome back!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 08, 2020, 12:37:34 PM
Jules Joachim also handed in a transfer request (does any player do that anymore?!) which Gregory just took the piss out of.

Quite right. Was excellent in 98/99, got a new deal and was then on easy street for most of 99-00 (eventually scored a few goals towards end).

The fact a year later he ended up at Coventry in the swop with Hadji shows how rated he was in the wider football world.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 08, 2020, 08:07:01 PM
We made a mistake letting Sid go to Blackburn as he proved in the game against us at Ewood Park. Dalian Atkinson's injuries didn't help us particularly as the 1992-1993 version of Dwight Yorke wasn't as good as Dalian was at that point. It was two or three years later before Yorke hit his peak in a Villa shirt. Steve Froggatt was also on fire early in the season before getting injured.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LukeJames on April 08, 2020, 08:13:09 PM
I liked Joachim, I'd completely erased him signing for Coventry from my mind so I checked it up on Wikipedia. Fucking hell, his career went to the pits after he left us.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Richard E on April 08, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
I liked Joachim, I'd completely erased him signing for Coventry from my mind so I checked it up on Wikipedia. Fucking hell, his career went to the pits after he left us.

Certainly did - he hit rock bottom by playing against me in a charity friendly.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 08, 2020, 09:02:36 PM
Nifty little player on his day. Scored some fine goals for us. Probably none as good as this though:


Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 08, 2020, 09:13:44 PM
It seems Julian Joachim is still playing .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Joachim?wprov=sfla1
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: tomd2103 on April 08, 2020, 09:50:27 PM
Going back to the 92/93 team and the debate about why we couldn't maintain that lofty position - I think before the money came in and a select number of teams began to pull away, you tended to get a team for who the stars would align for a season and they would mount a title challenge.  It would tend to be for that one season only and wouldn't be maintained after.  Ipswich, Watford, Southampton all finished runners up in the 1980's.

Leeds in 91/92 were probably an example of that.  Had a decent season before and then just had a great season, but were no great shakes after that.  Leicester were probably a throwback to that.

Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 08, 2020, 10:31:35 PM
Going back to the 92/93 team and the debate about why we couldn't maintain that lofty position - I think before the money came in and a select number of teams began to pull away, you tended to get a team for who the stars would align for a season and they would mount a title challenge.  It would tend to be for that one season only and wouldn't be maintained after.  Ipswich, Watford, Southampton all finished runners up in the 1980's.

Leeds in 91/92 were probably an example of that.  Had a decent season before and then just had a great season, but were no great shakes after that.  Leicester were probably a throwback to that.


To be fair in 1980-1981 Ipswich lost the league to us by four points in the days of two points for a win, won the UEFA Cup and reached an FA Cup semi final. The following year they were runners up again four points behind Liverpool and reached a League Cup semi final where they lost to Liverpool. Two very good seasons with one trophy to show for it. What always surprises me is how often Ipswich are classed (mainly by themselves admittedly but also by some of the media) as being hard done by to losing the title to us by four points in 1981 but nobody suggests they were hard done by to lose the title to Liverpool by the same amount of points the following season. And if anyone bangs on about us failing to beat Ipswich in three games in 80/81 we can point out Manure won the title but failed to beat us in three games in 1992/93.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: FatSam on April 08, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
Leeds in 91/92 were probably an example of that
I heard a theory that the introduction of the back pass rule immediately following their title success played a part in their poor title defence.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 08, 2020, 11:07:09 PM
Leeds in 91/92 were probably an example of that
I heard a theory that the introduction of the back pass rule immediately following their title success played a part in their poor title defence.


There could be something in that. Pre back pass rule under Wilkinson they won they second division in 1990, came fourth in the top flight in 1991 and were first division champions in 1992. The rule changed for the 1992/1993 season and they finished 17th.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 08, 2020, 11:24:15 PM
Leeds in 91/92 were probably an example of that
I heard a theory that the introduction of the back pass rule immediately following their title success played a part in their poor title defence.


There could be something in that. Pre back pass rule under Wilkinson they won they second division in 1990, came fourth in the top flight in 1991 and were first division champions in 1992. The rule changed for the 1992/1993 season and they finished 17th.

Tony Dorigo mentioned it as the reason for their drop-off in a podcast I listened to last week (I'm really bored).
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Tugby Villain on April 09, 2020, 12:03:35 AM
I liked Joachim, I'd completely erased him signing for Coventry from my mind so I checked it up on Wikipedia. Fucking hell, his career went to the pits after he left us.

Certainly did - he hit rock bottom by playing against me in a charity friendly.

Wasn't at the Kingpower was it by any chance?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: remy on April 09, 2020, 07:16:27 AM
My memory of this is somewhat hazy but top of the table with six games to go in 92/93 to barely avoiding relegation two seasons later minus Ron Atkinson. What are the explanations for this rapid decline? The squad wasn't that old, the likes of Daley, Atkinson, Staunton should have been at their peak and we had a young Yorke and Bosnich. The form and careers of so many players seemed to fall off a cliff after 1993.

Mate what a side that 92/93 was.

Bosnich
Barrett McGrath Teale Staunton
Froggatt Richardson Houghton Parker
Saunders Atkinson / Yorke

We started off average until Saunders signed and of course his home debut is the Liverpool win which propelled the team in confidence and play.

We hit a purple patch and just went on and on. Match of the Day was like “if you want to see great goals, get yourself down to Villa Park”.
“We need two goal of the seasons - one for Aston Villa and one for the rest”.

Putting this into context - Manure were losing at HOME to the plodders of Wimbledon.

There was always an anti-midlands bias by the London based media, bent FA of the time and of course the resentment were doing so well. The fergie-owls game is your proof along with the Premier league trophy being stored at OT while the league still in the balance and then the disheartening decisions constantly going manures way.

Dalian then began his sicknote tag and according to both Doug and Ron we had the chance to sign Collymore from Southend that probably would have won us the league - with both blaming each other for the failure.

We finished 10 points behind including losing at home to Oldham. Instead of pushing on we crapped in the league but raised ourselves in the cup to win it and deny manure the treble for the closest chance in their history.

Man City won the treble and nobody gives a f***.

By the time Big Ron left i think we had 5 or 6 players aged 30 or over in the XI.

Thank you for clearing up the mystery of why we lost 4 on the spin in Littles last season - all this behind scenes crap.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: JD on April 09, 2020, 09:04:35 AM
Remy, we didn't stop Manure winning the treble in 1992/93, we stopped them winning the treble in 1993/94.

I went to about 25 games in the 1992/93 season and then emigrated to NZ in late Nov 1993, missing the League Cup Final :'(.
 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 09, 2020, 10:47:38 AM
I remember watching the review of the '97-98 season on Youtube last summer. The body-language between Little and Collymore in one of the post match interviews - I have a feeling it was against Steaua Bucharest - was very telling.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 09, 2020, 12:31:51 PM
Remy, we didn't stop Manure winning the treble in 1992/93, we stopped them winning the treble in 1993/94.

I went to about 25 games in the 1992/93 season and then emigrated to NZ in late Nov 1993, missing the League Cup Final :'(.


I nearly missed the 1994 Coca Cola Cup final. I was supposed to be moving over to work in Tenerife with a mate of mine in late 1993. But my mate had to attend court twice for a drink driving charge and his divorce, which delayed our departure until April 1994 and meant I got to go to the final. I did however miss the Holte's Last Stand, but I was at the Holte's last but one stand against Arsenal.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 09, 2020, 01:28:37 PM
My memory of this is somewhat hazy but top of the table with six games to go in 92/93 to barely avoiding relegation two seasons later minus Ron Atkinson. What are the explanations for this rapid decline? The squad wasn't that old, the likes of Daley, Atkinson, Staunton should have been at their peak and we had a young Yorke and Bosnich. The form and careers of so many players seemed to fall off a cliff after 1993.

Mate what a side that 92/93 was.

Bosnich
Barrett McGrath Teale Staunton
Froggatt Richardson Houghton Parker
Saunders Atkinson / Yorke

We started off average until Saunders signed and of course his home debut is the Liverpool win which propelled the team in confidence and play.

We hit a purple patch and just went on and on. Match of the Day was like “if you want to see great goals, get yourself down to Villa Park”.
“We need two goal of the seasons - one for Aston Villa and one for the rest”.

Putting this into context - Manure were losing at HOME to the plodders of Wimbledon.

There was always an anti-midlands bias by the London based media, bent FA of the time and of course the resentment were doing so well. The fergie-owls game is your proof along with the Premier league trophy being stored at OT while the league still in the balance and then the disheartening decisions constantly going manures way.

Dalian then began his sicknote tag and according to both Doug and Ron we had the chance to sign Collymore from Southend that probably would have won us the league - with both blaming each other for the failure.

We finished 10 points behind including losing at home to Oldham. Instead of pushing on we crapped in the league but raised ourselves in the cup to win it and deny manure the treble for the closest chance in their history.

Man City won the treble and nobody gives a f***.

By the time Big Ron left i think we had 5 or 6 players aged 30 or over in the XI.

Thank you for clearing up the mystery of why we lost 4 on the spin in Littles last season - all this behind scenes crap.

Thanks for that. I watched some of the highlights of our games back then last night on youtube.... Movement of our front two in particular stands out. There are lengthy highlights of the 1-1 draw at Old Trafford for anyone interested. To be fair, we seemed to get battered for a lot of it. Bosnich and McGrath were outstanding. Small at left back very poor. Our midfield seemed a bit short of mobility that day, likes of Ince in his prime I guess. The Oldham horror show is up there too.

Never realised that Yorke was top scorer in BFRs first season.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 09, 2020, 02:00:32 PM
I remember watching the review of the '97-98 season on Youtube last summer. The body-language between Little and Collymore in one of the post match interviews - I have a feeling it was against Steaua Bucharest - was very telling.

He mentioned that interview in his recent book but just said he looked completely drained so clearly he felt he just burnt out in the job.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 09, 2020, 02:16:31 PM
My memory of this is somewhat hazy but top of the table with six games to go in 92/93 to barely avoiding relegation two seasons later minus Ron Atkinson. What are the explanations for this rapid decline? The squad wasn't that old, the likes of Daley, Atkinson, Staunton should have been at their peak and we had a young Yorke and Bosnich. The form and careers of so many players seemed to fall off a cliff after 1993.

Mate what a side that 92/93 was.

Bosnich
Barrett McGrath Teale Staunton
Froggatt Richardson Houghton Parker
Saunders Atkinson / Yorke

We started off average until Saunders signed and of course his home debut is the Liverpool win which propelled the team in confidence and play.

We hit a purple patch and just went on and on. Match of the Day was like “if you want to see great goals, get yourself down to Villa Park”.
“We need two goal of the seasons - one for Aston Villa and one for the rest”.

Putting this into context - Manure were losing at HOME to the plodders of Wimbledon.

There was always an anti-midlands bias by the London based media, bent FA of the time and of course the resentment were doing so well. The fergie-owls game is your proof along with the Premier league trophy being stored at OT while the league still in the balance and then the disheartening decisions constantly going manures way.

Dalian then began his sicknote tag and according to both Doug and Ron we had the chance to sign Collymore from Southend that probably would have won us the league - with both blaming each other for the failure.

We finished 10 points behind including losing at home to Oldham. Instead of pushing on we crapped in the league but raised ourselves in the cup to win it and deny manure the treble for the closest chance in their history.

Man City won the treble and nobody gives a f***.

By the time Big Ron left i think we had 5 or 6 players aged 30 or over in the XI.

Thank you for clearing up the mystery of why we lost 4 on the spin in Littles last season - all this behind scenes crap.

Thanks for that. I watched some of the highlights of our games back then last night on youtube.... Movement of our front two in particular stands out. There are lengthy highlights of the 1-1 draw at Old Trafford for anyone interested. To be fair, we seemed to get battered for a lot of it. Bosnich and McGrath were outstanding. Small at left back very poor. Our midfield seemed a bit short of mobility that day, likes of Ince in his prime I guess. The Oldham horror show is up there too.

Never realised that Yorke was top scorer in BFRs first season.



One of the group of us who stood together on the Holte every other week was always convinced that Les Sealey's on pitch bollockings towards Bryan Small destroyed his confidence.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 09, 2020, 02:21:38 PM
My memory of this is somewhat hazy but top of the table with six games to go in 92/93 to barely avoiding relegation two seasons later minus Ron Atkinson. What are the explanations for this rapid decline? The squad wasn't that old, the likes of Daley, Atkinson, Staunton should have been at their peak and we had a young Yorke and Bosnich. The form and careers of so many players seemed to fall off a cliff after 1993.

Mate what a side that 92/93 was.

Bosnich
Barrett McGrath Teale Staunton
Froggatt Richardson Houghton Parker
Saunders Atkinson / Yorke

We started off average until Saunders signed and of course his home debut is the Liverpool win which propelled the team in confidence and play.

We hit a purple patch and just went on and on. Match of the Day was like “if you want to see great goals, get yourself down to Villa Park”.
“We need two goal of the seasons - one for Aston Villa and one for the rest”.

Putting this into context - Manure were losing at HOME to the plodders of Wimbledon.

There was always an anti-midlands bias by the London based media, bent FA of the time and of course the resentment were doing so well. The fergie-owls game is your proof along with the Premier league trophy being stored at OT while the league still in the balance and then the disheartening decisions constantly going manures way.

Dalian then began his sicknote tag and according to both Doug and Ron we had the chance to sign Collymore from Southend that probably would have won us the league - with both blaming each other for the failure.

We finished 10 points behind including losing at home to Oldham. Instead of pushing on we crapped in the league but raised ourselves in the cup to win it and deny manure the treble for the closest chance in their history.

Man City won the treble and nobody gives a f***.

By the time Big Ron left i think we had 5 or 6 players aged 30 or over in the XI.

Thank you for clearing up the mystery of why we lost 4 on the spin in Littles last season - all this behind scenes crap.

Thanks for that. I watched some of the highlights of our games back then last night on youtube.... Movement of our front two in particular stands out. There are lengthy highlights of the 1-1 draw at Old Trafford for anyone interested. To be fair, we seemed to get battered for a lot of it. Bosnich and McGrath were outstanding. Small at left back very poor. Our midfield seemed a bit short of mobility that day, likes of Ince in his prime I guess. The Oldham horror show is up there too.

Never realised that Yorke was top scorer in BFRs first season.



One of the group of us who stood together on the Holte every other week was always convinced that Les Sealey's on pitch bollockings towards Bryan Small destroyed his confidence.

I loved Bryan Small, and played Sunday football with his brother for a few years, but he was a limited footballer. His primary function was as an anti-Andrei Kanchelskis device.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: remy on April 09, 2020, 02:56:38 PM
Remy, we didn't stop Manure winning the treble in 1992/93, we stopped them winning the treble in 1993/94.

I went to about 25 games in the 1992/93 season and then emigrated to NZ in late Nov 1993, missing the League Cup Final :'(.
 

I know bud I was typing this at 6am this morning and should have typed 'following season' after the word Oldham.

Some more bits I recall -

Paul McGrath winning player of the year - a seasoned, established full international playing as a fucking rock all season - against the just entered first team Ryan Giggs who looked genuinely mystified when he didn't win and announced by Bobby Charlton.

Goal of the season - Atkinson v Wimbledon

Team goal of the season - v Owls at home

Parker should have been called up for England but again the bias and England Manager twattery prevalent at the time - check his goal at Anfield, any other team he'd played for the wankfest would have been immeasurable.

The beauty of that season's shirt - deep claret with a nod to our Victorian heritage.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 09, 2020, 06:28:08 PM
I remember watching the review of the '97-98 season on Youtube last summer. The body-language between Little and Collymore in one of the post match interviews - I have a feeling it was against Steaua Bucharest - was very telling.

He mentioned that interview in his recent book but just said he looked completely drained so clearly he felt he just burnt out in the job.

Oh really? That's interesting. I must try to get my hands on that book.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: JD on April 09, 2020, 09:28:12 PM
Remy, we didn't stop Manure winning the treble in 1992/93, we stopped them winning the treble in 1993/94.

I went to about 25 games in the 1992/93 season and then emigrated to NZ in late Nov 1993, missing the League Cup Final :'(.
 

I know bud I was typing this at 6am this morning and should have typed 'following season' after the word Oldham.

Some more bits I recall -

Paul McGrath winning player of the year - a seasoned, established full international playing as a fucking rock all season - against the just entered first team Ryan Giggs who looked genuinely mystified when he didn't win and announced by Bobby Charlton.

Goal of the season - Atkinson v Wimbledon

Team goal of the season - v Owls at home

Parker should have been called up for England but again the bias and England Manager twattery prevalent at the time - check his goal at Anfield, any other team he'd played for the wankfest would have been immeasurable.

The beauty of that season's shirt - deep claret with a nod to our Victorian heritage.

Great memories Remy, sorry for correcting you mate.

The goal against Sheff Wed was brilliant and I think we scored two brilliant goals against Ipswich at home as well, with Dean Saunders scoring from 90 yards or near abouts (it gets further away from the goal every time I think of it).

My favourite game of that season though was the home game against Liverpool 4-2 win. It had everything, including the greatest miss of all time.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 09, 2020, 09:58:21 PM
I remember watching the review of the '97-98 season on Youtube last summer. The body-language between Little and Collymore in one of the post match interviews - I have a feeling it was against Steaua Bucharest - was very telling.

He mentioned that interview in his recent book but just said he looked completely drained so clearly he felt he just burnt out in the job.

Oh really? That's interesting. I must try to get my hands on that book.

Also praised Stan so don't think there was huge falling out between the two either.

One interesting tidbit from the book is none of coaching or playing staff realised the away goals rule counted after 90 rather than 120 minutes going into Helsingborg second leg.

That was the case in the league cup at the time and how we got through v Arsenal.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 09, 2020, 10:55:31 PM
I remember watching the review of the '97-98 season on Youtube last summer. The body-language between Little and Collymore in one of the post match interviews - I have a feeling it was against Steaua Bucharest - was very telling.

He mentioned that interview in his recent book but just said he looked completely drained so clearly he felt he just burnt out in the job.

Oh really? That's interesting. I must try to get my hands on that book.

Also praised Stan so don't think there was huge falling out between the two either.

One interesting tidbit from the book is none of coaching or playing staff realised the away goals rule counted after 90 rather than 120 minutes going into Helsingborg second leg.

That was the case in the league cup at the time and how we got through v Arsenal.

My abiding memory of Helsingborg away tie is Alan Hansen complaining that we had too many men behind the ball...it now makes sense!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: BC Villain on April 10, 2020, 10:22:08 AM
For all the supposed flair and great football we played under Atkinson goalscoring was always pretty crap.

There were times when we could be a bit Lambert-esque under Big Ron
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 10, 2020, 01:50:24 PM
For all the supposed flair and great football we played under Atkinson goalscoring was always pretty crap.

There were times when we could be a bit Lambert-esque under Big Ron


Under BFR we played some of the best attacking football I have ever seen from a Villa side. We probably saw more goals scored at Villa park in the Lambert years but the problem is the vast majority were going into our net! BFR won major trophies with three different clubs. I wouldn't hold my breath on Lambert ever getting close to doing that.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 10, 2020, 03:54:29 PM
Steve Stone. Another player we spent a lot of money on and after he had passed his best.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: oldhill_avfc on April 10, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

The marker around that time was that we were never going to get anywhere with Taylor in the side on a regular basis.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 10, 2020, 04:53:01 PM
Steve Stone. Another player we spent a lot of money on and after he had passed his best.

"He'll want to win his place in the England side back" were words uttered by me, I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2020, 10:46:06 PM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

The marker around that time was that we were never going to get anywhere with Taylor in the side on a regular basis.

Guy who scored in a cup final and did well in the euro run against very decent opposition?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 11, 2020, 12:03:12 AM
The odder one for me is the 95/6 team as we did, at least try, to strengthen that. It could be the age old Villa problem of being behind the curve. Football was changing but we still wanted to recreate the Saunders era.

The 90s, oh, what a missed opportunity they were for Villa.

Somebody said '90 was the real missed opportunity and, maybe by a shade, we looked more like champions in '90?

I was more disappointed that Brian Little's team didn't 'kick on'. Even though we finished 5th in 1996-97, at the time, it seemed somewhat disappointing after our superb season in 95-96. We were poor in the cups in 96-97.

1997-98 was really disappointing. Nothing seemed right. Little didn't seem himself that year and the performances were poor. At the time, it seemed the signing of Collymore upset things.

Overall, as others have said, on the three occasions where we had a chance to push on and  become champions ('90, '93 and '96-'97) we just didn't buy the top player(s) that would give us that edge. I often think the summer of 1997 was a real missed opportunity. I think we were a midfielder and an upgrade on Savo away from being an exceptional side. Instead we ended up with Collymore being shoe-horned into the side with Yorke and Milosevic.

Yep.  Quite firmly established in the higher reaches of the top flight at the time, though not always finishing there, we were behind the curve bringing in top quality foreign players when we could have probably attracted them.  Arsenal were bringing in Bergkamp, Chelsea brought in Gullit, Zola, Vialli,  Newcastle signed agin ola, Asprila etc. That was the time to show some real ambition, but not to be sadly.

The next chance we got were the early years under Lerner, but not to be again. 

The big problem was that we didn't really have anything to attract them. Never was the London factor so important.

The marker around that time was that we were never going to get anywhere with Taylor in the side on a regular basis.

What? Ian Taylor? As in one of the best midfielders we've had in the last thirty years? That Taylor?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2020, 03:36:12 PM
Taylor and Townsend were fine. Problem was not having a more creative player infront of them rather than another industrious runner like Draper who wasn't as good as those two (although IIRC he got a call up to England squad ahead of Tayls in 1996 for some reason).

Guess that was the idea of signing Sasa Curcic. Him and Collymore could've proved the final pieces to the first 11 but were complete opposite.

Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Simon Page on April 11, 2020, 03:51:00 PM
Draper was brilliant in 95/6. And when we stumbled on a front three of Johnson behind Yorke and Milosevic everything clicked. As always, though, we struggled beyond the first XI.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 11, 2020, 06:44:14 PM
Taylor and Townsend were both excellent for Villa. We let Townsend go too soon in my opinion. As for Mark Draper for me he was one of many Villa players who started his career at the club on fire but went downhill as time went on. In his case he went downhill quite quickly if I remember right.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2020, 08:54:17 PM
Boro came in for Townsend and given at that point they were paying Paul Merson more than what he was on at Arsenal a massive pay rise when you're 34 is something he was going to take.

Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 14, 2020, 04:25:47 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtH1JsUiMiU

Just found this newly uploaded video, BFRs final Villa Park game as our boss - we played pretty well but couldn't find a way past Gary Walsh in goal other than the Dalian deflection and we should have had a penalty at the death. Crazy seeing the modern upper Holte part constructed.  Both Martin Tyler and Andy Gray discuss during the video some of the things going against Villa that season and how we as supporters had labelled the team Dad's Army.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 15, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtH1JsUiMiU

Just found this newly uploaded video, BFRs final Villa Park game as our boss - we played pretty well but couldn't find a way past Gary Walsh in goal other than the Dalian deflection and we should have had a penalty at the death. Crazy seeing the modern upper Holte part constructed.  Both Martin Tyler and Andy Gray discuss during the video some of the things going against Villa that season and how we as supporters had labelled the team Dad's Army.

Gray seemed exasperated with our front two. Certainly Yorke made a huge impact when he came on, brilliant save from Walsh from his shot. Walsh was goalkeeping coach for us in recent years under Bruce and key to recommending Johnstone and Nyland.

Was Bosnich injured? Spink should have done better with at least one. Not helped by Townsend and King turning away from the shots on goal. That aside compared the game at Old Trafford two years previous, King was in for Small, Ugo for Teale, Townsend for Parker. Maybe BFR needed to make more radical surgery on the team post the league cup win. Staunton on left wing was a strange one, Jack Charlton used play him there at times too.

Little didn't improve things much that first season, barely survived relegation for a finish. Hard to believe for that group of players.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 15, 2020, 01:41:34 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtH1JsUiMiU

Just found this newly uploaded video, BFRs final Villa Park game as our boss - we played pretty well but couldn't find a way past Gary Walsh in goal other than the Dalian deflection and we should have had a penalty at the death. Crazy seeing the modern upper Holte part constructed.  Both Martin Tyler and Andy Gray discuss during the video some of the things going against Villa that season and how we as supporters had labelled the team Dad's Army.

Gray seemed exasperated with our front two. Certainly Yorke made a huge impact when he came on, brilliant save from Walsh from his shot. Walsh was goalkeeping coach for us in recent years under Bruce and key to recommending Johnstone and Nyland.

Was Bosnich injured? Spink should have done better with at least one. Not helped by Townsend and King turning away from the shots on goal. That aside compared the game at Old Trafford two years previous, King was in for Small, Ugo for Teale, Townsend for Parker. Maybe BFR needed to make more radical surgery on the team post the league cup win. Staunton on left wing was a strange one, Jack Charlton used play him there at times too.

Little didn't improve things much that first season, barely survived relegation for a finish. Hard to believe for that group of players.


I was living in Tenerife that season and following Villa via buying an English newspaper every day and havving SKY* in my apartment. He seemed to weed out a number of the old guard quite quickly, I think Kevin Richardson was one of the first to go. Followed by Houghton, Saunders, Atkinson, Spink. I seem to recall we started to pick up under Little and had a particularly good turn of the year and seemed to be flying in the new year. We then suddenly bombed and it went to the last day against Norwich.

*Back in the day of just one SKY sports channel and I religiously tuned in every evening at six pm for the only SKY Sports News bulletin of the day.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 15, 2020, 01:57:43 PM
Didn't Richardson get a good offer from abroad? He played for Big Ron 18 months later at Coventry so wasn't anything personal between the two. I imagine with Townsend coming in he just needed to be moved on.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 15, 2020, 02:03:12 PM
Didn't Richardson get a good offer from abroad? He played for Big Ron 18 months later at Coventry so wasn't anything personal between the two. I imagine with Townsend coming in he just needed to be moved on.


We (Big Ron ) bought both Richardson and Dalian from Real Sociedad (they had both spent a season there along with John Aldridge who spent two seasons there). Richardson was one of the first of BFR's 92/93 Villa team to leave when he followed BFR to Coventry.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 15, 2020, 02:36:22 PM
Didn't Richardson get a good offer from abroad? He played for Big Ron 18 months later at Coventry so wasn't anything personal between the two. I imagine with Townsend coming in he just needed to be moved on.


We (Big Ron ) bought both Richardson and Dalian from Real Sociedad (they had both spent a season there along with John Aldridge who spent two seasons there). Richardson was one of the first of BFR's 92/93 Villa team to leave when he followed BFR to Coventry.

Our transfer business in 94/95 was very strange (cheers wiki). Only King and Fashanu joined in the summer with Daley, Froggatt, Kubiciki and Cox leaving. Left us very light on the wings anyway.

Once Little came in, he signed Charles and Johnston, Carr and Wright. In order of departure, Whittingham, Barrett, Parker, Richardson, Houghton and Boden? all had left before the end of March. In hindsight I guess that was far too much change in very short space of time mid season. Did we switch to three at the back quickly after Little came in does anyone recall?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 15, 2020, 03:12:20 PM
Didn't Richardson get a good offer from abroad? He played for Big Ron 18 months later at Coventry so wasn't anything personal between the two. I imagine with Townsend coming in he just needed to be moved on.


We (Big Ron ) bought both Richardson and Dalian from Real Sociedad (they had both spent a season there along with John Aldridge who spent two seasons there). Richardson was one of the first of BFR's 92/93 Villa team to leave when he followed BFR to Coventry.

Our transfer business in 94/95 was very strange (cheers wiki). Only King and Fashanu joined in the summer with Daley, Froggatt, Kubiciki and Cox leaving. Left us very light on the wings anyway.

Once Little came in, he signed Charles and Johnston, Carr and Wright. In order of departure, Whittingham, Barrett, Parker, Richardson, Houghton and Boden? all had left before the end of March. In hindsight I guess that was far too much change in very short space of time mid season. Did we switch to three at the back quickly after Little came in does anyone recall?

Are you getting yer Paul Bodins and yer Phil Kings in a twist there?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 15, 2020, 05:31:48 PM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 15, 2020, 06:36:02 PM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)

It was initially Saunders and one of Fashanu or Atkinson  up until the signing of Tommy Johnson. Yorke featured in most games as a right winger with Staunton on the left and Taylor and Townsend in the middle. It was only the last few games of the season where Dwight featured up front with Saunders, Little has said he knew after Leeds away and Liverpool at home that Yorke would be his no 1 long term.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 15, 2020, 06:40:24 PM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)

I think the first few games of 94/95 showed Ron's preference was for Fashanu and Saunders. I remember Andy Gray saying after a couple of games that it certainly made a difference to Saunders' game having a big man up front to win the aerial battles. Then Fashanu got injured around the time of the away leg with Inter and Dalian/Whittifngham/Fenton/Yorke  all interchanged as Saunders' partner up until Ron was sacked. Lamptey made the odd cameo too.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: KevinGage on April 15, 2020, 06:48:43 PM
Didn't Richardson get a good offer from abroad? He played for Big Ron 18 months later at Coventry so wasn't anything personal between the two. I imagine with Townsend coming in he just needed to be moved on.


We (Big Ron ) bought both Richardson and Dalian from Real Sociedad (they had both spent a season there along with John Aldridge who spent two seasons there). Richardson was one of the first of BFR's 92/93 Villa team to leave when he followed BFR to Coventry.

Our transfer business in 94/95 was very strange (cheers wiki). Only King and Fashanu joined in the summer with Daley, Froggatt, Kubiciki and Cox leaving. Left us very light on the wings anyway.
 

How could you forget Nil Lamptey.  There was a fair bit of excitement about that signing IIRC.   

Daley was never the same after his injuries with us. Froggatt made the England squad a few years after leaving us, so that was one to persist with.  But maybe the player himself wanted out at that stage, with more chance of first team football a grade down. A guarantee we couldn't give him after lomgstanding fitness issues. 

 A fit and firing Atkinson and Daley in 92/93 - as well as Froggatt to call upon - and it wouldn't have mattered about Yanted signing Cantona. In retropsect, we prob did well to push them as far as we did with that trio missing for long periods.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 15, 2020, 07:37:26 PM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)

It was initially Saunders and one of Fashanu or Atkinson  up until the signing of Tommy Johnson. Yorke featured in most games as a right winger with Staunton on the left and Taylor and Townsend in the middle. It was only the last few games of the season where Dwight featured up front with Saunders, Little has said he knew after Leeds away and Liverpool at home that Yorke would be his no 1 long term.

Thank you. Your post has caused me to wonder how we would have done in the early 90s if we had adopted the same approach to Dwight Yorke as Liverpool did with Michael Owen when he broke through in 1997? Maybe Yorke wasn't quite ready until 1995. But when you look at clips of him in 91/92 and 92/93 you sort of scratch your head to think that he only became the main man in mid 1995.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 15, 2020, 09:27:27 PM
I honestly think had Yorke not been dropped at end of 92-93 we may have won it. Let's not forget he actually got seventeen in all comps the year before. Dalian came right back into the side and made no impact while Saunders and Parker's goals dried up. He wasn't super prolific but Yorke was still doing well that latter part of the season. Big Cyrille didn't play much around then either and both he and Yorke did well together the season before. Think he might have been injured?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 15, 2020, 10:01:37 PM
Was Cyrile still involved in 92/93? Really weird to think we had Frank McAvennie making appearances at the start of the season. I guess he was a stop-gap prior to Saunders' arrival.
Ate there any podcasts that Ron has contributed to, discussing his seasons in charge?  Would be interesting to see how he looks back at it now with hindsight.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: mcgrath_85 on April 15, 2020, 10:18:44 PM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)

It was initially Saunders and one of Fashanu or Atkinson  up until the signing of Tommy Johnson. Yorke featured in most games as a right winger with Staunton on the left and Taylor and Townsend in the middle. It was only the last few games of the season where Dwight featured up front with Saunders, Little has said he knew after Leeds away and Liverpool at home that Yorke would be his no 1 long term.

Thank you. Your post has caused me to wonder how we would have done in the early 90s if we had adopted the same approach to Dwight Yorke as Liverpool did with Michael Owen when he broke through in 1997? Maybe Yorke wasn't quite ready until 1995. But when you look at clips of him in 91/92 and 92/93 you sort of scratch your head to think that he only became the main man in mid 1995.

I’ve been thinking this after watching the 91-92 review. He was out top goal scorer that year. It seems a massive cock on Big Rons part that he signed a load of duds to play in front of him. 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 15, 2020, 10:23:39 PM
Didn't Richardson get a good offer from abroad? He played for Big Ron 18 months later at Coventry so wasn't anything personal between the two. I imagine with Townsend coming in he just needed to be moved on.


We (Big Ron ) bought both Richardson and Dalian from Real Sociedad (they had both spent a season there along with John Aldridge who spent two seasons there). Richardson was one of the first of BFR's 92/93 Villa team to leave when he followed BFR to Coventry.

Our transfer business in 94/95 was very strange (cheers wiki). Only King and Fashanu joined in the summer with Daley, Froggatt, Kubiciki and Cox leaving. Left us very light on the wings anyway.
 

How could you forget Nil Lamptey.  There was a fair bit of excitement about that signing IIRC.   

Daley was never the same after his injuries with us. Froggatt made the England squad a few years after leaving us, so that was one to persist with.  But maybe the player himself wanted out at that stage, with more chance of first team football a grade down. A guarantee we couldn't give him after lomgstanding fitness issues. 

 A fit and firing Atkinson and Daley in 92/93 - as well as Froggatt to call upon - and it wouldn't have mattered about Yanted signing Cantona. In retropsect, we prob did well to push them as far as we did with that trio missing for long periods.


If I remember correctly, on his arrival Nil Lamptey arrived with title of 'The Ghanaian Pele'. I don't think many people were still calling him that on his departure, unless they were taking the piss.


Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 15, 2020, 10:28:56 PM
Lamptey was a highly rated young player, the story of his life and reasons why he never fulfilled his potential is pretty sad.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 15, 2020, 10:29:46 PM
Was Cyrile still involved in 92/93? Really weird to think we had Frank McAvennie making appearances at the start of the season. I guess he was a stop-gap prior to Saunders' arrival.
Ate there any podcasts that Ron has contributed to, discussing his seasons in charge?  Would be interesting to see how he looks back at it now with hindsight.


I think Cyrille played most of the games in his first season '91-92. I seem to recall he became very much a bit part player the following season '92-93.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 15, 2020, 10:35:58 PM
Was Cyrile still involved in 92/93? Really weird to think we had Frank McAvennie making appearances at the start of the season. I guess he was a stop-gap prior to Saunders' arrival.
Ate there any podcasts that Ron has contributed to, discussing his seasons in charge?  Would be interesting to see how he looks back at it now with hindsight.

I always thought BFR bringing in McAvennie as a stop gap was a message to Doug to pull his finger out. Then he upped the ante with his on pitch speech about signing Deano. The only surprise being BFR with a microphone on the pitch in front of tens of thousands and resisting the opportunity to break into song.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 15, 2020, 10:37:24 PM
Quote
Even Pelé himself said it. Nii Odartey Lamptey, player of the tournament ahead of Alessandro Del Piero and other future stars in the Under-17 World Cup of 1991, would be 'the next Pele'. The world's most famous footballer had first seen him play in the Under-16 finals in 1989 and after two sightings gave his verdict: 'Lamptey is my natural successor.'

With 38 senior caps for Ghana by the age of 21, a sensational first season in Europe after making his debut aged 15, and an even better season as top scorer for PSV Eindhoven while still a teenager, Lamptey looked as though he might prove Pelé right. It was not to be, though, and surely Pelé would never have said any such thing had he known of the horrors the boy had already suffered in his childhood. And nobody could have predicted that, far from becoming a world-class superstar, Lamptey would suffer personal tragedy as he was shunted from country to country, continent to continent, in his unfulfilled career. Only now, at the age of 33 and with new goals in his life, is Lamptey prepared to talk about the pain and sorrow he has endured.

Back home where it all started in Accra, the capital of Ghana, Lamptey invites Observer Sport to the thriving junior school that he has founded and which, in three years, has become hugely successful. The Glow-Lamp International School in Hospital Lane started with one pupil and now has nearly 400, including Lamptey's three surviving children. His wife works there, too, and at last Lamptey has found fulfilment. It has been a long and harrowing journey, with stopovers in 10 countries on four continents. Here, in brief, is the sad life story of 'the next Pelé':

Lamptey was neglected and abused by both parents during his childhood in Accra and Kumasi, the two biggest cities in Ghana. Whenever he could, he played football and cannot even remember the name of his school. At times he was too scared to go home, sleeping under a car or in a kiosk on the streets to avoid a beating or worse. 'I did not have a family relationship. It was bad,' he says.

His alcoholic father burned him with cigarettes - 'I still have the marks on my body' - lashed him with his belt and, when he finally became aware of his son's talent at football, he would stand on the touchline and shout abuse at him.

His mother, whom he left aged eight when his parents divorced, also beat him. She remarried without Lamptey having met his new stepfather. When his father remarried, he was effectively thrown out of the house and was offered the chance to stay 'in camp' with a Muslim football club. This meant he had to convert to Islam, which he happily did to escape his new stepmother. His father would come to the mosque and threaten his son and other Muslims. There were frequent fights.

As soon as Lamptey had a little money - a bonus after playing in the Under-16 World Cup in Scotland in 1989 - he fled his homeland, and told no one, not even his parents, until he was in Belgium. Ghana's FA wanted him to stay in order to build a team around him. They confiscated his passport. So Lamptey hid in the back of a taxi and illegally crossed three borders (Ghana-Togo, Togo-Benin, Benin-Nigeria) to reach Lagos, where he met the agent of Nigeria's captain, Keshi, who was then playing in Belgium for Anderlecht. He was one of the few people Lamptey trusted. Keshi had never met him, but knew of his reputation and had spoken to him by phone. 'When the agent phoned to tell him I was in Lagos, I heard Keshi shout with joy,' says Lamptey, who was then 14 years old.

He waited in Lagos for Keshi to fetch him, then flew to Belgium on a fake Nigerian passport - which he discarded as soon as he got there - posing as Keshi's son (such was the player's influence). Nobody at Anderlecht really believed it was Lamptey, so they tested him at training with older boys. 'Everyone was there, even the club president,' he says. 'After the first two or three touches they knew I was the real Lamptey.'

Lamptey signed a contract for five years as soon as he was 16, but did not know what he was doing. He could not read or write, and was exploited mercilessly by football's money men. 'I was cheated so much,' Lamptey says. At one point in 1997, after being loaned to four clubs, he discovered his registration was owned not by Anderlecht, as he thought, but by his agent, Antonio Caliendo, who also represented Roberto Baggio and Dunga. Some years before, Caliendo had secured Lamptey as a client by flying to Accra and paying him a cash lump sum to sign on the dotted line. 'I didn't know the details of the contract,' he says.

In 1997, Lamptey moved to Argentina, dreaming of playing in the same Boca Juniors team as his hero Diego Maradona. Boca had too many foreign players and loaned him out to Union Santa Fe. Lamptey's son Diego - named after Maradona - fell ill and the whole family had to relocate to a Buenos Aires hotel while the infant was in intensive care for two-and-a-half months. Diego died, unable to breathe, and Lamptey and his wife Gloria later lost another child, Lisa, also at four months to the same lung disease. That was in Germany.

In 1996, Lamptey, still only 21, was discarded by his national team and has not played for them since. Other players were unhappy when he criticised them for a poor showing in the 1996 Africa Cup of Nations in South Africa. He breaks down in tears when he talks about it and believes he should have played in the 2006 World Cup and could even still be playing now, in the 2008 Africa Cup of Nations. He even hints at dark forces at work, believing there may have been two spiritualist curses put on him, one because he left his Muslim team to go to Europe, the other because he chose a wife from what his own family deemed the 'wrong race'. 'It was taken from me. It is really, really painful. Sometimes I'll be in my room and just cry,' he says.

Lamptey cannot bear even to go to the stadium to watch the Black Stars, as Ghana are known, during the tournament his country is hosting, preferring to watch on TV at home. He has had a big falling-out with Abedi Pelé, former African footballer of the year and Ghana's biggest star. He will not say why. 'But Abedi knows, he knows.'

Both his parents are now dead. Lamptey attempted to reconcile with them and he acceded to his father's dying wish to reconvert to Christianity, but he was pained at the funerals when he 'had to bury them both alone'. His brothers were never happy that he married a woman from another people - the Lampteys are Ga, Gloria is Fante - and do not speak. They refused to pay towards the burial expenses.

'I have been through hell, through so much pain,' he tells Observer Sport in the school office, sitting underneath a framed Chinese proverb that reads 'If life does not give you all that you want, rejoice that you are alive'.

'If I could write a book about it, it would be something else, I tell you. But how can I do that, when I can't even write a letter?' he says.

When he spoke of his ex-agent, Caliendo, I asked Lamptey, as a check, to spell the man's surname. 'I think it is C-O-L-E-H-D,' he says. Lamptey's lack of education, to which he constantly refers, often with some bitterness, is clearly something that eats away at him.

An hour or so from the Glow-Lamp School, up in the Aburi hills north-east of Accra, is a football school that, had such a thing existed 20 years ago, could have made life so much more bearable for Lamptey.

Osei Kwame is a 14-year-old footballer of great promise, just as Lamptey was all those years ago. Poorly educated, he, too, is from Kumasi. 'The first time I had to speak to a white man I was scared,' he says. 'I could not speak English.'

Kwame is under pressure to contribute more to the family taxi business: his father wants to take him from the school, but has been persuaded to let him stay and learn.

Before arriving at the academy, Kwame, like Lamptey, spent all his time playing football. He neglected his schooling and lived on the streets. 'When he was 10 he would go out one day and not return for three months,' says Tom Vernon, who founded the Right to Dream Academy, a registered charity in Ghana, Britain and the United States. 'When we went to his house to offer a place here his mother burst into tears. She thought we were the police, because Osei was always in trouble for stealing. Left to his own devices he would have snapped up any offer to play football.

'Our philosophy is simple - to make sure every boy leaves with a positive opportunity to build a better life.

'Boys should not leave Africa at the age Lamptey was when he left. They just cannot cope. Imagine how tough it must be at that age. They should stay and complete their schooling, wait until they are 18, 19, and decide for themselves what to do.'

The first batch of 16 graduates from Right to Dream have come through their schooling and coaching, and five have taken scholarships in America. Three more are at university in Gloucester, two are about to sign for clubs in Portugal and France, and two have joined Fulham. They all have qualifications, and a chance in life.

By the age of 19 Lamptey's best years were already behind him. World champion and player of the tournament at the Under-17 World Cup in 1991, an Olympic bronze in 1992, a runners-up medal in the Under-20s in 1993, that sensational season at PSV. One man who remembers him well from that era is here in Ghana scouting for one of Europe's top clubs. 'He was so good, a fantastic player,' says Nick Neururer, who was then working for the Austrian FA and is now Celtic's Africa scout. 'That year at PSV, sensational. But he could not cope. Too much, too young. Too many expectations, too much trouble with agents.'

What went wrong, in Lamptey's view? 'The expectations on me were very, very huge, even after that tournament in Scotland [in 1989]. It had never happened like that in Ghana, it was me going outside [to Europe] and opening the door for so many Ghanaians, the first one to do it, and many players still thank me for that,' he says.

'It wasn't easy, but I just wanted to play. I didn't know about money. I was unable to have a proper education and because of that I was cheated in so many ways in my career.

'When Diego died I couldn't stay in Argentina. I called Anderlecht and said, "This is the situation, I want to come back." The vice-president said, "You don't belong to us, you belong to Caliendo." Caliendo was selling me without me knowing it. After Diego died I wanted to come home, and this guy was forcing me to sign a contract with him.

'I refused. I was so lucky, otherwise I'd still belong to him up to I don't know when.

'I did not have any big quarrel, I just said, "No, I won't sign." He had to send people to come and talk to me, I still refused. Since then I have not had any contact with him.' Shortly before that, Lamptey had averted another rip-off, of his signing-on fee for Aston Villa, when the then Villa manager Ron Atkinson intervened. 'Ron gave my account number to the office and they paid it in direct. I hadn't even been told I was due a fee. The manager [agent] was very upset. Big Ron has been a good man in my life.

'There are other players whose agents have been even worse, one man who tried to destroy me because I would not sign for him. I know players who would gladly kill that one.

'Another problem was I couldn't express myself. There were certain things I just couldn't do. I remember watching one of my tapes from 1991 when I went to Belgium and looked at myself speaking English. Jesus Christ! I couldn't say what I wanted to say.

'Meeting my wife was another thing, so many people were against it. My parents were against it. I don't know why. Football-wise it was fighting against me, and family-wise it was fighting against me. It was hell.'

Every class in the Glow-Lamp School is named after one of the countries where Lamptey played either for a club or in a big tournament. On the ground floor, where his toddler Malaika attends pre-school play sessions, are China (Shandong), Germany (Greuther Fürth), Portugal (União Leiria), Dubai (Al Nasr), Australia (U20 World Cup) and Brazil (where he earned his last Ghana cap in 1996).

On the next floor, where Latifa (13) and Kadija (12) study, and where the library features hundreds of pictures of his playing career plastered all over the walls, are Belgium (Anderlecht), Argentina (Santa Fe), England (Aston Villa, Coventry), Holland (PSV), Turkey (Ankaragucu), Italy (Venezia), and the venues of memorable international matches, Switzerland, Russia and Sweden.

All those clubs, and yet he was touted to play for Real Madrid or Barcelona. 'Do I have regrets? I don't know. Perhaps you have to explain more from the dictionary what is regret. I won't say regret. I know if it was me alone and people had left me, for sure I should have been playing for Madrid now. But people want your downfall, too many things.

'But even through those things I'm able to stand firm. Whatever a footballer is supposed to achieve, I've done it, I've seen it. Maybe as Pelé put it that I'm going to step in his shoes, that one did not happen. That's a bit painful now, but I have to take it like that.

'I'm OK but because of my educational background I'm not comfortable. I don't want my own children to go through this pain. The best gift you can give your child is education.

'It all comes to education, that's why I decided to use my money for this school. This school makes me happy.'
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 15, 2020, 11:01:40 PM
There's a clip on YouTube from 93/94 where Colin Hendry or one of those Blackburn cloggers went through poor Lamptey for a shortcut after he had just come on as a sub. He was stretchered off.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: KevinGage on April 16, 2020, 01:06:05 AM
If I remember correctly, on his arrival Nil Lamptey arrived with title of 'The Ghanaian Pele'. I don't think many people were still calling him that on his departure, unless they were taking the piss.

Scored a blinder of a goal against Fourth Division Wigan (who were decked out in Inter Milan colours oddly).

Did very little else of note during his time with us.

A shame, I used to get the World Soccer magazine early to 90s and he was regularly mentioned in it. As was Simon Inglis of this parish, with his reviews of football grounds around Europe.

Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Simon Page on April 16, 2020, 01:37:58 AM
BFR never seemed to take to Yorke. He was nearly sold to Man City for £1.5m, I think during 92/3. I had a drunken (me not him) chat with Yorke at an end of season event and he was quite happy to say he just wanted to play. He was definitely frustrated at the lack of opportunities. I'm pretty certain it was the 92/3 player awards and he mentioned the Man City approach.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: WarszaVillan82 on April 16, 2020, 07:18:14 AM
If I remember correctly, on his arrival Nil Lamptey arrived with title of 'The Ghanaian Pele'. I don't think many people were still calling him that on his departure, unless they were taking the piss.

Scored a blinder of a goal against Fourth Division Wigan (who were decked out in Inter Milan colours oddly).

Did very little else of note during his time with us.

A shame, I used to get the World Soccer magazine early to 90s and he was regularly mentioned in it. As was Simon Inglis of this parish, with his reviews of football grounds around Europe.



Highlights of that match are on youtube, Lamperty was outstanding.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 16, 2020, 01:41:46 PM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)

I think the first few games of 94/95 showed Ron's preference was for Fashanu and Saunders. I remember Andy Gray saying after a couple of games that it certainly made a difference to Saunders' game having a big man up front to win the aerial battles. Then Fashanu got injured around the time of the away leg with Inter and Dalian/Whittifngham/Fenton/Yorke  all interchanged as Saunders' partner up until Ron was sacked. Lamptey made the odd cameo too.

Wasn't Fashanu about 33 at that point? I just thought he came as back up rather than regular first choice. Bit like if Grant Holt had come in and regularly started when we loaned him in that January.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 16, 2020, 03:02:14 PM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)

I think the first few games of 94/95 showed Ron's preference was for Fashanu and Saunders. I remember Andy Gray saying after a couple of games that it certainly made a difference to Saunders' game having a big man up front to win the aerial battles. Then Fashanu got injured around the time of the away leg with Inter and Dalian/Whittifngham/Fenton/Yorke  all interchanged as Saunders' partner up until Ron was sacked. Lamptey made the odd cameo too.

Wasn't Fashanu about 33 at that point? I just thought he came as back up rather than regular first choice. Bit like if Grant Holt had come in and regularly started when we loaned him in that January.

Fashanu started the first five games or so of the season while Dalian was a sub so i am guessing he was either 1st choice or that Ron hoped this was spur Dalian on. It literally took an injury to Fashanu for Dalian to start games again. Fashanu's age was nothing surprising really as a fair few of the team were over thirty.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 16, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
He was a shit signing, but he actually wasn't that bad when he actually played for us.

I've seen worse.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 16, 2020, 03:38:28 PM
Also remember Ron saying when he signed that he wasn't "just a big duck egg", like anyone else in the world would've ever suggested he was.

Perfect Ronglish, makes no sense but you know exactly what he means.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: KevinGage on April 16, 2020, 04:40:43 PM
From memory, Fashanu said he was chatting to Ron at USA 94 about Nigerian midfielders or forwards who may be available.

Ron then asked if he was open to a move.

There was logic to the signing. As a side, we were too nice to play against at times.  And whatever Fash was as a player, he wasn't that. So an intriguing one.

But @ 33, well past it by then. And played like it, for the most part. With our other key players over 30 at that stage, we should have looked elsewhere.

Didn't he cost in excess £1.5 million then as well?  Still a fair chunk of change in that period, even in the mad world of football.

Amokachi or Sunny Oliseh etc would have been a better fit for us at that point.

Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: CT on April 16, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
Fashanu wore his Wimbledon sweat band for the first few games didn't he? I seem to recall that didn't go down too well.

Wasn't it tough guy Ryan Giggs that did him at OT? I cant remember for sure, even though I was there!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 16, 2020, 06:18:47 PM
It was Giggs.

About 2-3 games earlier he managed to score in consecutive games vs QPR and Forest. At half time vs QPR he was substituted and raced straight back to London for some emergency dental work. His goal cane from a free kick that I remember involved a scuffle over who was going to take it between Teale and Bosnich. As you  can imagine Teale won!

I think Fashanu was popular. I remember when the season ended with another slump and Andy Townsend put part of the decline down to losing Fash to injury. He was never going to be a long term signing. I reckon BFR reckoned JF would emulate Cyrille Regis three seasons earlier in doing a decent job for a brief season or two.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 16, 2020, 06:47:42 PM
I was pleased when we signed Fashanu as I had always thought he was a decent and rather underrated striker and certainly a physical presence. I think his goals record was decent too. I think the problem was that he had already had different irons in different fires by that point in his football career. He had an office in London from where he ran a football agency (hence the first contact with BFR when Fashanu was trying to bring Nigerian players over into the Premier League) and had also started doing TV work.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 16, 2020, 06:50:52 PM
I was pleased when we signed Fashanu as I had always thought he was a decent and rather underrated striker and certainly a physical presence. I think his goals record was decent too. I think the problem was that he had already had different irons in different fires by that point in his football career. He had an office in London from where he ran a football agency (hence the first contact with BFR when Fashanu was trying to bring Nigerian players over into the Premier League) and had also started doing TV work.

Yeah he was doing Gladiators in Brum NIA at the time too. When I say ye was popular I meant with the other players. I know most supporters weren't too impressed by his signing.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: London Villan on April 16, 2020, 06:57:20 PM
Didnt we sign Whittingham that summer too? Then played him as a winger?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 16, 2020, 07:17:15 PM
Didnt we sign Whittingham that summer too? Then played him as a winger?

Whittingham was a year earlier and played up front but ended up on loan at Wolves before the season was over. I was excited when we signed him as he had just hit 42 goals for Pompey that year but it just didn't work out. First two shirts I ever had names on were Saunders 9 in 93 and Whittingham 22 in 1994 about a week before he left for Sheff Weds. My dad was not impressed as it was a costly name! I still own it now.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 16, 2020, 08:51:02 PM
Ha when I first saw Fashanu in mid 90s on TV I just assume that was all he did. Pretty impressed to learn he was a decent footballer aswell.

Awooga!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 17, 2020, 09:21:45 AM

Wasn't it tough guy Ryan Giggs that did him at OT? I cant remember for sure, even though I was there!

It was. My claim to fame was that I was on Match Of The Day that evening - for some reason the cameras panned right in in on me while I was clapping as Fashanu was carried off after Giggs had "done him".

 I had no idea until i got home and found loads of messages on my answerphone (one of those old machines with a tape recorder fitted to capture messages). Good job I'd recorded MOTD ( on one of those old video machines). 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 17, 2020, 09:50:34 AM
I thought you'd be risking ejection, cursing at Giggs and "giving him the wanker's".
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 17, 2020, 10:07:46 AM

Wasn't it tough guy Ryan Giggs that did him at OT? I cant remember for sure, even though I was there!

It was. My claim to fame was that I was on Match Of The Day that evening - for some reason the cameras panned right in in on me while I was clapping as Fashanu was carried off after Giggs had "done him".

 I had no idea until i got home and found loads of messages on my answerphone (one of those old machines with a tape recorder fitted to capture messages). Good job I'd recorded MOTD ( on one of those old video machines). 

It's funny but I remember it as him doing himself whilst trying to do Giggs, in a Gascoigne stylee.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 17, 2020, 11:28:34 AM
I enjoyed that Villa v Utd clip. Thank you.

I cannot now remember, did Yorke immediately become our top striker after Little came in? BFR favoured Atkinson and Saunders to the end. Yorke probably should have been the star striker earlier than he was (based on that clip!)

I think the first few games of 94/95 showed Ron's preference was for Fashanu and Saunders. I remember Andy Gray saying after a couple of games that it certainly made a difference to Saunders' game having a big man up front to win the aerial battles. Then Fashanu got injured around the time of the away leg with Inter and Dalian/Whittifngham/Fenton/Yorke  all interchanged as Saunders' partner up until Ron was sacked. Lamptey made the odd cameo too.

Wasn't Fashanu about 33 at that point? I just thought he came as back up rather than regular first choice. Bit like if Grant Holt had come in and regularly started when we loaned him in that January.

Fashanu started the first five games or so of the season while Dalian was a sub so i am guessing he was either 1st choice or that Ron hoped this was spur Dalian on. It literally took an injury to Fashanu for Dalian to start games again. Fashanu's age was nothing surprising really as a fair few of the team were over thirty.

We already had Saunders, Atkinson, Yorke and Whittingham as strikers though. Back then squad rotation wasn't really all that popular either so we were definitely overstaffed up top. Pity Whittingham didn't work out in hindsight.

Signing a 33 yr old Fashanu while Daley and Froggatt were leaving wasn't the best use of budget by BFR. Only left us with Houghton (32) as a wide player, or Staunton, Atkinson or Yorke shoved out of position. Houghton had been dropped for the league cup final in 93/94 so his decline was in evidence before then.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 17, 2020, 02:02:02 PM

Wasn't it tough guy Ryan Giggs that did him at OT? I cant remember for sure, even though I was there!

It was. My claim to fame was that I was on Match Of The Day that evening - for some reason the cameras panned right in in on me while I was clapping as Fashanu was carried off after Giggs had "done him".

 I had no idea until i got home and found loads of messages on my answerphone (one of those old machines with a tape recorder fitted to capture messages). Good job I'd recorded MOTD ( on one of those old video machines). 

4.42, hey it's Chico time!



It was a nothing clash between the two. Didn't Fash get sued by Gary Mabbutt around that time (then had another day in court with Hans Sagers and Grobbalaer a few years later).

We were actually in really good form around that match, 5 wins from 6 games and 7-1 at home to Wimbledon happened a week later.

Seems in true Villa fashion that traumatic 4-4 at home to Leicester completely messed us up.  We failed to score in 7 of our final 11 games.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 17, 2020, 02:44:36 PM
4 mins and 44 seconds. Fella with cropped hair and a fag in his mouth. I was a 20 a day man back the
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 17, 2020, 02:55:28 PM

Wasn't it tough guy Ryan Giggs that did him at OT? I cant remember for sure, even though I was there!

It was. My claim to fame was that I was on Match Of The Day that evening - for some reason the cameras panned right in in on me while I was clapping as Fashanu was carried off after Giggs had "done him".

 I had no idea until i got home and found loads of messages on my answerphone (one of those old machines with a tape recorder fitted to capture messages). Good job I'd recorded MOTD ( on one of those old video machines).


I have got an old videotape somewhere of me 'giving it the big un' on SKY after we beat Spurs with a Dwight Yorke goal in the FA Cup in 1992 at White Hart Lane. The camera stayed on me for quite a while whilst Dave Bassett was summing up the game. You could clearly see me as the away end was relatively sparse around me. I wasn't aware of being on camera until a bluenose workmate told me the next day. He was drinking in the Mackadown Social with his mates, one of whom said "Whose that Villa twat"? My workmate Steve replied "I work with him"!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 19, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
I was trying to see if there was a discussion on here about Villa's Greatest  player of All Time?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 20, 2020, 10:52:26 AM
I was trying to see if there was a discussion on here about Villa's Greatest  player of All Time?

It was very short, started at "Paul..." and ended at "McGrath"
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 21, 2020, 12:47:19 PM
I was trying to see if there was a discussion on here about Villa's Greatest  player of All Time?

It was very short, started at "Paul..." and ended at "McGrath"

I agree on McGrath, I was just wondering if fans who remember earlier eras agree.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 21, 2020, 12:49:48 PM
There are two possible answers. Paul McGrath, and the wrong answer.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Simon Page on April 21, 2020, 01:12:38 PM
Sid and he who shall be called Brian have a call on this. Shaw would have done but for injury and Dwight Yorke was simply brilliant.

Older fans would surely stick Hitchens, Blanchflower and McParland in similar circles. Go back further and you can pick from a dozen or more.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 21, 2020, 01:58:11 PM
Sid and he who shall be called Brian have a call on this. Shaw would have done but for injury and Dwight Yorke was simply brilliant.

Older fans would surely stick Hitchens, Blanchflower and McParland in similar circles. Go back further and you can pick from a dozen or more.

You are of course correct, and Sid is my all time personal favourite, but there was something almost ethereal about the way McGrath played, and when you take into account his personal struggles it seems impossible that a mere mortal could be so consistently brilliant.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 21, 2020, 02:23:09 PM
McGrath made it look so simple. He was always so calm under pressure and could, without fuss, execute a little flick/touch to control a ball when he was under pressure.

What do we think was McGrath's best villa game? Didn't he play the '94 League cup final with a shoulder injury?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 21, 2020, 02:33:03 PM
McGrath made it look so simple. He was always so calm under pressure and could, without fuss, execute a little flick/touch to control a ball when he was under pressure.

What do we think was McGrath's best villa game? Didn't he play the '94 League cup final with a shoulder injury?

It's really hard to pick one that was so much better than all of the others, but the day he won the PFA award in 93 and he scored the winner away at Forest (when we were still well in the title race) lives long in the memory. We were directly in line with the path of the ball from his head to the net, a wonderful towering header, bulleted into the bottom corner.

Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 21, 2020, 02:35:16 PM
Here you go mate, great day out that was.

https://m.facebook.com/avfcofficial/videos/1800434286667299/
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 21, 2020, 02:43:56 PM
Here you go mate, great day out that was.

https://m.facebook.com/avfcofficial/videos/1800434286667299/

I've just watched that about 10 times in a row, on my work laptop with my headphones on full blast. Tremendous work, thanks pal.

Was a great day too, up the A42 in my brothers 1972 mini, playing Led Zeppelin as it was all we could hear over the engine. Seem to remember watching some of Arsenal v Spurs semi in the pub, when Gascoigne scored that mad free kick.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 21, 2020, 04:43:08 PM
Such a shame we didn't win that league. Those last 3-4 games...
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 21, 2020, 06:43:39 PM
McGrath made it look so simple. He was always so calm under pressure and could, without fuss, execute a little flick/touch to control a ball when he was under pressure.

What do we think was McGrath's best villa game? Didn't he play the '94 League cup final with a shoulder injury?


He was in a lot of pain with his shoulder in the '94 final and apparently had barely slept the night before. I think it was diagnosed as a 'muscle virus'. He was still struggling with the injury when he put in a world class performance for Ireland against Italy in the '94 World Cup. I think his shoulder was pretty much paralysed in both games which must have affected his balance.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Simon Page on April 22, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
I'd say the difference with McGrath, and the reason he's more often than not chosen as the greatest, is he was arguably the very best in the world in his position during large parts of his time with us. Although I wouldn't have swapped them for anyone, you can't really say the same about Little, Sid and Yorke. One thing Sid shares with McGrath is they both improved the players around them just through their brilliant awareness.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 22, 2020, 01:58:39 PM
I'd say the difference with McGrath, and the reason he's more often than not chosen as the greatest, is he was arguably the very best in the world in his position during large parts of his time with us. Although I wouldn't have swapped them for anyone, you can't really say the same about Little, Sid and Yorke. One thing Sid shares with McGrath is they both improved the players around them just through their brilliant awareness.


I always thought Sid was better all round than Glenn Hoddle. Despite not being as physically big as Hoddle Sid was just as skillful and more physical when need be.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 22, 2020, 02:15:51 PM
Sid is the one player who gets better the longer he's been retired. He's gone from good, to great, to our best-ever over the past twenty years. History has definitely been kinder to him than some of his contemporaries.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: usav on April 22, 2020, 02:25:48 PM
Sid is the one player who gets better the longer he's been retired. He's gone from good, to great, to our best-ever over the past twenty years. History has definitely been kinder to him than some of his contemporaries.

That's probably fair.  I would also say his game was better suited to now than 40 years ago.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 22, 2020, 03:43:02 PM
So...was Sid that good then, or not?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Simon Page on April 22, 2020, 03:57:26 PM
So...was Sid that good then, or not?

For me, he just got better and better. He came into a really good side at a young age, became one of the best passers of a ball in an era when most teams had one, then got injured, went abroad, but by the time he headed towards veteran status he was exceptionally good. I'd say he was the absolute focal point of the 89/90 side. Everything went through him and it allowed the wide men and Platt to shine. But whereas you'd have no argument from fans of anyone about McGrath's status, Cowans star didn't travel as far.

I think he was the most intelligent and aware player I've seen for us and I can't think of anyone I'd have rather had in that position. But it's hard to compare with a peerless centre-back or an inside-forward or winger who had all the tricks.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 22, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Graham Taylor took a lot of stick for bringing Cowans into the England team, was it for Gazza or Platt at one time in the early 90s? Perhaps Cowans reputation outside of Villa suffered for things like that.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 22, 2020, 09:41:26 PM
Graham Taylor took a lot of stick for bringing Cowans into the England team, was it for Gazza or Platt at one time in the early 90s? Perhaps Cowans reputation outside of Villa suffered for things like that.
That was for a Euro 92 qualifier in Dublin in October 1990 when SGT put Sid in for Gascoigne. It was a really awful game despite Platt scoring for England  and Cascarino equalizing for Ireland.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 22, 2020, 10:53:45 PM
Was there any Serie A interest in God when he was here? I assume even at his age there must've been some bids we rejected. According to his wiki he was going to sign for Napoli but they pulled out before his medical and then we signed him and the rest is history. I'd imagine interest would've been rekindled after he kept Baggio in his pocket in 1994.

Interesting to me if we never had any bids for arguably our greatest post war player, guess us signing him when he was already 30 played a part if there wasn't.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 22, 2020, 11:13:00 PM
So...was Sid that good then, or not?

Here comes the controversial bit:

Sid reminds me of Eamonn Dunphy's quote about Liam Brady - "He was a very good young player and a very good old player. In between, he was a very rich player." I don't know how rich Sid was throughout the eighties but it's a fact that at the start of that decade he was the best young midfielder in the country. He's the first to admit that he was off-form in 1980-81 and to a lesser extent the following season, before coming back in 82-83 to have his best-ever time. The next five years were lost to injury and Italy and it wasn't until 89-90 that he was back to his best.

In the next two seasons he was world-class and it's that time that has probably sealed his reputation. As I said earlier, history has been kind to him, perhaps because so many of us saw him for so long. To my mind he was a great Villa player, but not a great player. 
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: brontebilly on April 22, 2020, 11:37:12 PM
Was there any Serie A interest in God when he was here? I assume even at his age there must've been some bids we rejected. According to his wiki he was going to sign for Napoli but they pulled out before his medical and then we signed him and the rest is history. I'd imagine interest would've been rekindled after he kept Baggio in his pocket in 1994.

Interesting to me if we never had any bids for arguably our greatest post war player, guess us signing him when he was already 30 played a part if there wasn't.

Ferguson and United tried to retire McGrath on injury grounds before he even signed for us. Apart from his injuries, his off pitch issues were well known by then too. Somehow given all that he was playing top division football at 37. He must have been one of the greatest athletes to ever play the game considering all he had to deal with.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Hillbilly on April 23, 2020, 08:20:13 AM
For me, the standout 'classy' midfielder in the First Division in the 80's was Kevin Sheedy at Everton. I can't think of a better midfielder of the era including Sid, Hoddle, Devonshire. You can argue but his record speaks for itself.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: London Villan on April 23, 2020, 08:57:30 AM
The thing that i never get about the 89-90 team is that didn’t really have a tough midfielder of any kind. In lots of ways it was 5-2-3 with the 2 being platt and cowans. How did it work?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 23, 2020, 12:00:04 PM
The thing that i never get about the 89-90 team is that didn’t really have a tough midfielder of any kind. In lots of ways it was 5-2-3 with the 2 being platt and cowans. How did it work?


That team played like none I've seen before or since. You couldn't really count Platt as one of the two either as he was the main goal threat.

It was more like 3-3-3-1, the three centre halves, Sid and the wing backs, Ormondroyd, Daley and Platt, with Olney up top.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 23, 2020, 12:24:51 PM
The thing that i never get about the 89-90 team is that didn’t really have a tough midfielder of any kind. In lots of ways it was 5-2-3 with the 2 being platt and cowans. How did it work?

It had McGrath keeping the ball out one end and Platt putting the ball in at the other, that's why it worked :-)
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2020, 02:38:19 PM
Paul was trained as a midfielder.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Villan82 on April 23, 2020, 03:34:26 PM
The 89-90 team was like a machine. I do, genuinely, believe it looked more like a team of 'champions' than the more entertaining 9-93 team.

It is a real shame one of those two teams didn't bring home the championship.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2020, 06:40:45 PM
Paul was trained as a midfielder.


He was a midfielder in the Irish league and originally bought as a midfielder by BFR for Manure.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2020, 06:47:21 PM
Graham Taylor took a lot of stick for bringing Cowans into the England team, was it for Gazza or Platt at one time in the early 90s? Perhaps Cowans reputation outside of Villa suffered for things like that.
That was for a Euro 92 qualifier in Dublin in October 1990 when SGT put Sid in for Gascoigne. It was a really awful game despite Platt scoring for England  and Cascarino equalizing for Ireland.


SGT got pelters from the media for dropping Gascoigne and replacing him with Sid. I think that was when he retorted to the press regarding his concern about Gascoigne's  "refuelling habits".
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 23, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Personally I always saw 1990 as more of a missed opportunity to 1993. I came out of White Hart Lane in late February convinced we would win the title. But instead of kicking on we immediately lost at home to Wimbledon and away to Coventry (I think Mountfield got injured at Coventry and was out for a while). We dropped points at QPR and lost to poor Palace and Man City sides. We relied too much on Platt for our goals, Ian Olney was young and knackered after leading the line all season and Cascarino didn't hit the ground running. 1992-1993 was our Ipswich season. We played Manure three times and beat them twice and drew once. It was looking good when we won at Forest but the next week we drew with Coventry whilst Bruce scored those late goals for Manure against Wednesday. We then lost our last three games which made United's triumph look far more emphatic then it was prior to the last but one game.

I’ve been off H&V for most of lockdown, so cone to this late, and this point may have already been made in the other 14 pages after this (sorry attention span twindling the more it goes on). Anyway, I totally agree with this. 89/90 expected not much at the beginning as we nearly got relegated the season before, but as it went on it really felt like the title was coming. I was at Chelsea away as a 16 on NYD 1990 when we tonked them 3-0c& Liverpool only drew with forest away later that day. At that point I think (and I may be wrong without checking) we were a few points ahead with a game in hand. But Wimbledon in Mid Feb changed everything. They were our bogey side at the time, but we got a 1st min pen, Platt never missed..but did and they done us 3-0 and the wheels started to fall off.

92-93 felt to me more of a fantastic indulgence, beautiful football for most of the season, but the only time I really believed we were gonna do it, was when Staunton scored that screamed at Old Trafford to put us one up in March 93. I loved Atkinson side that year though and I know Saunders and Atkinson didn’t score loads but there were some great goals amongst them....and a defence of McGrath, Teale, Barrett and Staunton (though Bryan small played his part when Stan moved into left mid).

Have them days back tomorrow
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2020, 10:36:56 PM
After an uninspiring start to the season in 1989 in September we lost 1-3 at home to QPR thanks to a Trevor Francis hat-trick and the knives were out in the media for SGT, bearing in mind we only stayed up by the skin of our teeth the previous season. I think a lot of fans lost their bottle and were bombarding BRMB with criticism. I remember one Saturday night out with the mates I went home and away with and there was a heated exchange between two of us who backed SGT (I think it was me and Nev) and two other mates who were calling for change. We then got battered by Derby in the next game but managed to nick a 1-0 win against the run of play. We went on a run of eight wins on the bounce - Derby, Luton on the plastic pitch, Man C away, Palace, Everton (6-2 and I think they would have gone top if they had beaten us), Coventry 4-1, Wimbledon away and Forest at Villa Park. We then drew at Anfield before losing at Millwall. We then went on another run beating Manure, Arsenal, Chelsea, Charlton, Southampton, Wednesday and Spurs before the defeat at home to Wimbledon. From September to February including four FA Cup games we won fifteen games drew two and lost one.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 23, 2020, 10:56:09 PM
We won 5 in a row, we lost 2-0 at Norwich.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2020, 11:24:01 PM
Hah, I knew PWS would be one-hand to out-statto you, Damo  ;D

I guess those sequence of results show that the hallmark of champions is to stop a couple of bad results turning into a run of them. Momentum either way is a powerful force.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 24, 2020, 08:40:39 AM
We won 5 in a row, we lost 2-0 at Norwich.
The same result in the same fixture cost us a lot in 1992/93 as well.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 24, 2020, 02:20:40 PM
I remember Norwich killing themselves against us and absolutely rolling over when they played Man U. Think they had already lost the match after about ten minutes. Have never liked them since, carrot chomping twats.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 24, 2020, 02:22:05 PM
We won 5 in a row, we lost 2-0 at Norwich.

The run from the Millwall defeat till the Wimbledon game was 7 in a row, and matched the best run in 80-81.
We were magnificent in the last game of that run, Spurs away, probably the best we played that season, which made what followed so surprising.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 24, 2020, 03:03:44 PM
We started off well against Wimbledon and always think if Platt had scored that penalty we would have won comfortably and who knows what might have happened after that.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: usav on April 24, 2020, 03:39:26 PM
Wasn't there a shit defeat at Coventry in there somewhere as well?  Seem to remember a Sunday game on TV that I went to with my brother.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: London Villan on April 24, 2020, 04:26:51 PM
Boxing day. Didnt mountfield go off injured?
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: London Villan on April 24, 2020, 04:29:09 PM
It was March!
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 24, 2020, 06:00:51 PM
Boxing Day was 1992 season when Paul McGrath could hardly stand and Fatty Quinn scored a hat-trick. The 2-0 was the week after the Wimbledon disaster in 1990. They scored when Mountfield was off injured and we never recovered. The police were utter twats, telling everyone they had to sit then standing in front so you couldn't see unless you stood up. Only bright side was I got on the telly, which was fairly exciting for a nine year old.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 24, 2020, 07:50:30 PM
Boxing Day was 1992 season when Paul McGrath could hardly stand and Fatty Quinn scored a hat-trick. The 2-0 was the week after the Wimbledon disaster in 1990. They scored when Mountfield was off injured and we never recovered. The police were utter twats, telling everyone they had to sit then standing in front so you couldn't see unless you stood up. Only bright side was I got on the telly, which was fairly exciting for a nine year old.

It was a shit defeat alright, that Coventry team was utter garbage. David Smith torturing us, and going on to do precisely fuck all ever again, mostly for the rags.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 24, 2020, 08:06:23 PM
Boxing Day was 1992 season when Paul McGrath could hardly stand and Fatty Quinn scored a hat-trick. The 2-0 was the week after the Wimbledon disaster in 1990. They scored when Mountfield was off injured and we never recovered. The police were utter twats, telling everyone they had to sit then standing in front so you couldn't see unless you stood up. Only bright side was I got on the telly, which was fairly exciting for a nine year old.

It was a shit defeat alright, that Coventry team was utter garbage. David Smith torturing us, and going on to do precisely fuck all ever again, mostly for the rags.

Kevin Drinkell scores for them I’m sure when Mountfield was injured? Always looked overweight and jaundiced that lad.

I remember the Boxing Day game at home to Man Utd in 90, we were brilliant and tore the arse of them, granted they were having a very poor league season, but McGrath was God that day and Platt the best midfielder in the country at the time. The surge in the lower Holte when Platt took it round their keeper to put us 2-0 was mad.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 28, 2020, 03:14:27 PM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 28, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....

He had his own personal goal of the season contest that year, and you probably wouldn't count any in the top three the team scored, yet they were all fabulous.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 28, 2020, 06:42:17 PM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....


I always enjoyed trips to the two Sheffield clubs. Usually a big away allocation and a decent view. I was at that game and remembered Parker scored a good goal. But it wasn't until I just looked up who the other scorer was that I remembered he scored two that day. I knew it was 'early doors' in the season.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on April 28, 2020, 06:55:59 PM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....


I always enjoyed trips to the two Sheffield clubs. Usually a big away allocation and a decent view. I was at that game and remembered Parker scored a good goal. But it wasn't until I just looked up who the other scorer was that I remembered he scored two that day. I knew it was 'early doors' in the season.

I was there that day too, the first goal was early and the second late.
I enjoyed the trips to Sheffield for the same reason, plus it's pretty easy to get to.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on April 28, 2020, 07:04:24 PM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....


I always enjoyed trips to the two Sheffield clubs. Usually a big away allocation and a decent view. I was at that game and remembered Parker scored a good goal. But it wasn't until I just looked up who the other scorer was that I remembered he scored two that day. I knew it was 'early doors' in the season.

I was there that day too, the first goal was early and the second late.
I enjoyed the trips to Sheffield for the same reason, plus it's pretty easy to get to.


I seem to recall we were flying a Villa scarf out of the car window which caused a couple of their fans to bang on the car and give us a few verbals when we parked up.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: KevinGage on April 29, 2020, 02:39:17 PM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....

He had his own personal goal of the season contest that year, and you probably wouldn't count any in the top three the team scored, yet they were all fabulous.

Man Citeh away my personal favourite.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 29, 2020, 03:03:13 PM
His goal vs QPR away the following season was a stunner too.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Deano's Mullet on May 12, 2020, 04:02:04 PM
Going back to the Fashanu chat, here's the QPR game that season complete with Teale\Bosnich argument about a free kick.

https://youtu.be/zngrdOOL8WI
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: ColinMac on May 12, 2020, 06:30:40 PM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....

He had his own personal goal of the season contest that year, and you probably wouldn't count any in the top three the team scored, yet they were all fabulous.
.

And missed a sitter at Norwich in a vital game at the back end of the season, we want on to lose that game.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 13, 2020, 09:00:12 AM
https://youtu.be/rTos7lZ_wKw

Sheff Utd 0-2 The Villa 1992. Check out that first Parker goal.....

He had his own personal goal of the season contest that year, and you probably wouldn't count any in the top three the team scored, yet they were all fabulous.

Man Citeh away my personal favourite.

He scored a blinder at Derby in the cup when we won 4-3. Might not have been 92/93 though, can't remember.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 13, 2020, 10:14:47 AM
4-3 at Derby was 91/92 and I think that was Parker's debut.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 13, 2020, 07:28:12 PM
Think it's harsh to describe Parker's chance at Naaaarch as a sitter. He was wide of the goal on his 'wrong' foot and clipped the post.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Grande Pablo on May 13, 2020, 09:34:31 PM
4-3 at Derby was 91/92 and I think that was Parker's debut.

I've a vivid memory of Midlands Today really bigging this game up a giant killing.  Alan Towers was interviewing BFR at the Baseball Ground - BFR eventually cracked & said something along the lines of 'he thinks you lot are rubbish' as the players walk past them into the dressing room.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 13, 2020, 09:47:21 PM
Alan Towers. Blast from the past. Now deceased I believe.
Left the BBC with this parting shot.

https://youtu.be/es7K3LnVtW4
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on May 13, 2020, 10:20:20 PM
Alan Towers. Blast from the past. Now deceased I believe.
Left the BBC with this parting shot.

https://youtu.be/es7K3LnVtW4

Ha ha, I've never seen that, that's the full Partridge! Top man.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2020, 05:32:28 PM
Alan Towers. Blast from the past. Now deceased I believe.
Left the BBC with this parting shot.

https://youtu.be/es7K3LnVtW4

Ha ha, I've never seen that, that's the full Partridge! Top man.


Brilliant. I hope they presented him with the gold watch before he said his 'fond goodbye'. And yes his wording was very Partridge.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2020, 05:41:17 PM
4-3 at Derby was 91/92 and I think that was Parker's debut.

I was at the 4-3 midweek game at Derby in the cup. We were seated in the top tier of one of the stands behind the goal whereas on our previous visit (Cascarino's debut) we were stood in the pen behind the goal. But I was also at the Oldham away game and I thought that was Garry Parker's debut game.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on May 14, 2020, 06:05:26 PM
4-3 at Derby was 91/92 and I think that was Parker's debut.

I was at the 4-3 midweek game at Derby in the cup. We were seated in the top tier of one of the stands behind the goal whereas on our previous visit (Cascarino's debut) we were stood in the pen behind the goal. But I was also at the Oldham away game and I thought that was Garry Parker's debut game.

I too was at both games, and honestly couldn't tell you who's right.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 14, 2020, 10:29:35 PM
Just done a bit of googling.
Garry Parker signed Friday 29th November 1991.
The next day we lost 3-2 away to Oldham and Parker was in the starting line up.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 14, 2020, 10:34:14 PM
4-3 at Derby was 91/92 and I think that was Parker's debut.


I was at the 4-3 midweek game at Derby in the cup. We were seated in the top tier of one of the stands behind the goal whereas on our previous visit (Cascarino's debut) we were stood in the pen behind the goal. But I was also at the Oldham away game and I thought that was Garry Parker's debut game.
It was Oldham away which was a couple of months and several games before. I think I'm confusing his first game with his first goal.
https://www.11v11.com/players/garry-parker-243/team/aston-villa/#clubmatches
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on May 14, 2020, 10:37:13 PM
Just done a bit of googling.
Garry Parker signed Friday 29th November 1991.
The next day we lost 3-2 away to Oldham and Parker was in the starting line up.

I seem to remember Mark Blake scoring a good goal in that game. He got a run in the side then a looked a good prospect, but for some reason he didn't kick on.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 15, 2020, 12:53:15 AM
Probably going to add another 100 pages but why were we so bad in the FA cup around that time?

2nd place prem season lost in replay to Wimbledon on penalties in 4th round.

Season we won the league cup we lost to Bolton who weren't even in the premier league at the time, too much fixture congestion?

Frustrating period of our obsession considering how strong we were in the league cup in that period.

3-0 QF lost to Oldham in 1990 aswell, I assume that was the season they nearly beat Man. United in the semi final.

Frustrating period of our obsession considering how strong we were in the league cup in that period.

Our record in the early to mid 80s was even poorer when you consider how open the competition was in that period compared to the present day.


Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 15, 2020, 09:02:47 AM
The Oldham game was on their awful plastic pitch on a horrible Wednesday night which at least partly contributed to the terrible performance.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on May 15, 2020, 09:14:52 AM
We just didn't turn up for that 1990 quarter final at Oldham that night. It was a pathetic display (I deliberately didn't use the word performance because we didn't perform whatsoever). The car load of us who travelled left before the end, which was very rare for us.

At Anfield in 1992 we put in a good performance but the ref P.Don gave every decision to Liverpool and gave us f*ck all. That should have been our year with second division Portsmouth and second division Sunderland waiting for us in the semi and the final.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2020, 09:39:47 AM
Probably going to add another 100 pages but why were we so bad in the FA cup around that time?

2nd place prem season lost in replay to Wimbledon on penalties in 4th round.

Season we won the league cup we lost to Bolton who weren't even in the premier league at the time, too much fixture congestion?

Frustrating period of our obsession considering how strong we were in the league cup in that period.

3-0 QF lost to Oldham in 1990 aswell, I assume that was the season they nearly beat Man. United in the semi final.

Frustrating period of our obsession considering how strong we were in the league cup in that period.

Our record in the early to mid 80s was even poorer when you consider how open the competition was in that period compared to the present day.




Mate, we've been 'that bad' in the FA Cup for my entire life
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2020, 09:42:00 AM
We just didn't turn up for that 1990 quarter final at Oldham that night. It was a pathetic display (I deliberately didn't use the word performance because we didn't perform whatsoever). The car load of us who travelled left before the end, which was very rare for us.

At Anfield in 1992 we put in a good performance but the ref P.Don gave every decision to Liverpool and gave us f*ck all. That should have been our year with second division Portsmouth and second division Sunderland waiting for us in the semi and the final.

We should have at least got them back to Villa Park. It was a missed opportunity because that Liverpool side was shite, well shite for them anyway.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Damo70 on May 15, 2020, 09:48:11 AM
We just didn't turn up for that 1990 quarter final at Oldham that night. It was a pathetic display (I deliberately didn't use the word performance because we didn't perform whatsoever). The car load of us who travelled left before the end, which was very rare for us.

At Anfield in 1992 we put in a good performance but the ref P.Don gave every decision to Liverpool and gave us f*ck all. That should have been our year with second division Portsmouth and second division Sunderland waiting for us in the semi and the final.

We should have at least got them back to Villa Park. It was a missed opportunity because that Liverpool side was shite, well shite for them anyway.



After beating us in the QF Liverpool were lucky to scrape a draw with Portsmouth at Highbury in the semi. They then only scraped through on penalties in the replay at Villa Park. If I remember right it was a crap penalty shoot out with more pens missed than scored.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
We just didn't turn up for that 1990 quarter final at Oldham that night. It was a pathetic display (I deliberately didn't use the word performance because we didn't perform whatsoever). The car load of us who travelled left before the end, which was very rare for us.

At Anfield in 1992 we put in a good performance but the ref P.Don gave every decision to Liverpool and gave us f*ck all. That should have been our year with second division Portsmouth and second division Sunderland waiting for us in the semi and the final.

We should have at least got them back to Villa Park. It was a missed opportunity because that Liverpool side was shite, well shite for them anyway.



After beating us in the QF Liverpool were lucky to scrape a draw with Portsmouth at Highbury in the semi. They then only scraped through on penalties in the replay at Villa Park. If I remember right it was a crap penalty shoot out with more pens missed than scored.

It was, I seem to recall John Beresford missing Portsmouth crucial penalty. Why in God's name I can remember that and not my sisters birthday I'll never know.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: Fred Crump on May 15, 2020, 10:49:40 AM
John Beresford- I’d forgotten he used to play for Portsmouth. I remember him from his Geordie Barcode days when to be fair , he used to be quite good. Piece of irrelevant information - his son used to play in the Scunthorpe United Youth / Reserve Team with my lad. Bez junior wasn’t as talented as his Dad , needless to say.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2020, 11:14:35 AM
He was a decent player, that Pompey side also had the young Darren Anderton, who despite being known generally for his injuries was actually a bloody decent player.

As an aside, I had a mate who's dad was a decent full back, Ray Wilson who played for the Stripeys in the 70's, and he was shit as well.
Title: Re: The rapid decline of the 92/93 team
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 15, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
We just didn't turn up for that 1990 quarter final at Oldham that night. It was a pathetic display (I deliberately didn't use the word performance because we didn't perform whatsoever). The car load of us who travelled left before the end, which was very rare for us.

At Anfield in 1992 we put in a good performance but the ref P.Don gave every decision to Liverpool and gave us f*ck all. That should have been our year with second division Portsmouth and second division Sunderland waiting for us in the semi and the final.

Yeah I ignored that one due to it being Liverpool and them having the hex over us for most of the 90s. 1996 was just bad timing with the league cup final being much later in the season in those times.

Just amuses me every January we get people flipping their nut on here when we lose in the third round yet in the 80s and 90s when we were pretty good and it was generally easier to reach the final than it is now we were nowhere.

The MON years were maybe missed opportunities aswell but then we kept on getting Man. United in the third round which didn't really help.

One other that sticks in my mind was Coventry at home in 1998. They really should've beaten us 5-0, we were that bad and Bosnich was that good on the day. After that game Coventry lost to Sheffield United on penalties in the quarters.

That was the end really for Sir Brian although he stayed on for two more league games after which we also lost.
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