How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?

[Brassneck]

"The leagues and the PFA will be singing from the same hymn sheet"

Ok mate, if you say so.

I do mate.

[paul_e]

It really is.

Assuming that clubs vote to continue after 1 July, notwithstanding the fact that squads cannot bring additions to the list submitted in January (as we've discovered with Wesley & Heaton), the league can simply suspend registrations.  Players out of contract will then either have the choice of playing the season out on a week by week/temporary contract or sitting it out completely with no income.

A club is in a position to offload a loan player if it wants but obviously would not be able to replace him.  If he's crap as you suggest then he'd be no loss anyway.  If it's that important, then keep him, as you would in normal circumstances for the last few weeks of a season.

Rules would only be changed by resolution (agreement by clubs)

There is no health and safety risk.  For the 333rd time - I, nor anyone else is suggesting that games should be played if there is a risk to health and safety - Nor for that matter would games be permitted to take place.

The whole suspending registrations thing.

That would go down well with a PFA that will already be jumpy about getting players to play behind close doors.

I don't think strongarming people over their careers is really going to work.

The leagues and the PFA will be singing from the same hymn sheet.  It's worth noting also that players could also stand to lose out on lucrative sponsorship deals if the season isn't completed.

Both want a logical and feasible solution.  Nobody is trying to strong arm anyone.  Even if registrations weren't suspended, players could not play for another club anyway due to the squad lists.

The league, the players and the PFA will all be looking to find a solution.  If the season is extended, it makes perfect sense to extend the date for registrations.  This isn't strong arming or threatening anyone - It is simply applying common sense.  How many players are we talking about anyway?  It's more likely to be a problem in the EFL.

You're over-simplifying this, the registrations side is actually a relatively minor part of the problem. You still have the fact that players have contracts at other clubs that are already agreed, every single one of those contracts would need to be amended with agreement from the player and their new club, the League and PFA can't uniformly agree that on their behalf, particularly when many of those players will be coming from outside the league/country or vice versa.

Even after that, the registrations thing is an issue because you step into disagreements over restriction of trade (as is already being discussed in regards to the exact same problem in rugby). Without knowing the exact wording of the agreements and contracts it's hard to know for sure either way whether there is any contingency in the rules if the season runs beyond the end of June but I'd be surprised if there is something in there as a clause along the lines of 'squad registration restrictions apply until June 30th or the end of the final game of the season'. If that's the case then you'd need to get agreements with at least the clubs to extend it.

[Brassneck]

Possibly I am over simplifying it.  However, people are looking to put brick walls in the way without really thinking things through.

Ultimately, the league is run by its members.  It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules.  In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached.  This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors.  Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.

People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it.  People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.

If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do.  Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?

Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?

What are the sporting goals for finishing the league?  1.  To see Liverpool crowned champions and  2.  To determine the European spots.  Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract?  Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July?  Do we know this?  Or is it just an agreement? 

It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what?  The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.

If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so.  There is a way around everything.

[Brassneck]

Is it possible for a player to have actually signed another contract?

Rule T2:

A Club shall be at liberty after the third Saturday in May in any year and before the 1 July following to make such an approach to a Contract Player:

T.2.1. who will become an Out of Contract Player on that 1 July; and

T.2.2. who has received no offer from his Club under Rule V.17.2; or

T.2.3. who has received but has declined such o

[paul_e]

Possibly I am over simplifying it.  However, people are looking to put brick walls in the way without really thinking things through.

Ultimately, the league is run by its members.  It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules.  In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached.  This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors.  Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.

People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it.  People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.

If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do.  Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?

Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?

What are the sporting goals for finishing the league?  1.  To see Liverpool crowned champions and  2.  To determine the European spots.  Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract?  Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July?  Do we know this?  Or is it just an agreement? 

It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what?  The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.

If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so.  There is a way around everything.

For me it's nothing to do with Brick walls. I think the current status with the premier league is similar to government stance on a deal with the EU. "We want to do it, they want to do it and it serves everyone best if we can get on with it" but that completely ignores the minutiae of actually doing it. I do think there are ways they can do this, I just haven't seen anything from the announcements so far to suggest they know how difficult it will be.

[Brassneck]

Possibly I am over simplifying it.  However, people are looking to put brick walls in the way without really thinking things through.

Ultimately, the league is run by its members.  It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules.  In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached.  This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors.  Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.

People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it.  People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.

If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do.  Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?

Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?

What are the sporting goals for finishing the league?  1.  To see Liverpool crowned champions and  2.  To determine the European spots.  Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract?  Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July?  Do we know this?  Or is it just an agreement? 

It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what?  The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.

If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so.  There is a way around everything.

For me it's nothing to do with Brick walls. I think the current status with the premier league is similar to government stance on a deal with the EU. "We want to do it, they want to do it and it serves everyone best if we can get on with it" but that completely ignores the minutiae of actually doing it. I do think there are ways they can do this, I just haven't seen anything from the announcements so far to suggest they know how difficult it will be.

Well thankfully, there isn't a Corbyn like traitor figure involved.

I think you are being naive if you think that everything discussed on here hasn't been discussed by those involved in decision making.  I'd venture that they've also held discussions with Government members regarding the safety and viability of staging behind closed doors games.

I don't think the powers that be can do any more at present other than to postpone fixtures.  Nobody knows what the next 3 months hold so until such time as we do, it would be wrong to announce anything.

It is an impossible task and no decision will be received well by everyone.  I see the arguments for all scenarios.   If they do decide/manage to play games behind closed doors, I would imagine there would be some kind of consequential schedule that would cover all the points discussed on here - We'd probably find that Heaton & Wesley could re-join the squad as well.  I see no reason why they need to stick to January if we are going past June.

[Drummond]

Hang on, this impossible task was a piece of piss according to you earlier.

You dismiss everyone else's ideas as brick walls, yet seem to be calling everyone else ridiculous for suggesting it's really not easy.

Even if the clubs want to do it, who's to say the players will? Do the fans want it? Their team, behind closed doors, without all the players available.

An employee has the right to refuse to work if they reasonably feel that they won't be safe and could be in danger. I'd suggest that they would have every right to feel that their totally unnecessary jobs, if made to do them, would be putting them at unnecessary risk. Unless they could all be issued with hazmat suits to play in.

[Brassneck]

Hang on, this impossible task was a piece of piss according to you earlier.

You dismiss everyone else's ideas as brick walls, yet seem to be calling everyone else ridiculous for suggesting it's really not easy.

Even if the clubs want to do it, who's to say the players will? Do the fans want it? Their team, behind closed doors, without all the players available.

An employee has the right to refuse to work if they reasonably feel that they won't be safe and could be in danger. I'd suggest that they would have every right to feel that their totally unnecessary jobs, if made to do them, would be putting them at unnecessary risk. Unless they could all be issued with hazmat suits to play in.

Please point me to where I have claimed it was a piece of piss - Or have you just included that to add value to your post?

As I have stated earlier, my own belief is that there is no fair way to complete the season.  Therefore it should be voided.

However, I see the argument for playing out the season behind closed doors.  You still don't seem to understand that this can only be done if it is safe to do so.  In that scenario, the players would be in breach of contract for not doing so.

Yes, it would be lovely for the fans to decide the outcome but it isn't really a viable option is it?

I do dismiss most of the claims as brick walls because the league can get round them as easily as you can claim I said it would be a piece of piss.

The only thing I'm bothered about is that Villa don't get relegated.  I couldn't care less about anything else.  That said, I seem to be in the very small minority who appreciate the desire to finish the season.  I wonder what other industry would be prepared to write off so much money in times such as this.  Our owners have both probably taken massive hits.  It may be the case that they no longer wish to put money into the club at the same rate as before yet everyone is blithely wishing away millions of pounds worth of income - Probably the same ones who don't want to sell Jack for any amount of money.

[paul_e]

Possibly I am over simplifying it.  However, people are looking to put brick walls in the way without really thinking things through.

Ultimately, the league is run by its members.  It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules.  In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached.  This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors.  Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.

People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it.  People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.

If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do.  Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?

Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?

What are the sporting goals for finishing the league?  1.  To see Liverpool crowned champions and  2.  To determine the European spots.  Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract?  Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July?  Do we know this?  Or is it just an agreement? 

It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what?  The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.

If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so.  There is a way around everything.

For me it's nothing to do with Brick walls. I think the current status with the premier league is similar to government stance on a deal with the EU. "We want to do it, they want to do it and it serves everyone best if we can get on with it" but that completely ignores the minutiae of actually doing it. I do think there are ways they can do this, I just haven't seen anything from the announcements so far to suggest they know how difficult it will be.

Well thankfully, there isn't a Corbyn like traitor figure involved.

I think you are being naive if you think that everything discussed on here hasn't been discussed by those involved in decision making.  I'd venture that they've also held discussions with Government members regarding the safety and viability of staging behind closed doors games.

I don't think the powers that be can do any more at present other than to postpone fixtures.  Nobody knows what the next 3 months hold so until such time as we do, it would be wrong to announce anything.

It is an impossible task and no decision will be received well by everyone.  I see the arguments for all scenarios.   If they do decide/manage to play games behind closed doors, I would imagine there would be some kind of consequential schedule that would cover all the points discussed on here - We'd probably find that Heaton & Wesley could re-join the squad as well.  I see no reason why they need to stick to January if we are going past June.

but if you do that, as I said a few pages back, you're changing the rules of the competition whilst it's in progress. Given the finances involved in european places and relegation for clubs why would anyone who feels like they're getting the shitty end of the stick over that agree to it? For example do Heaton and Wesley coming in for Reina and Baston make us a better 25 man squad? I'd argue they do and that no other club in the bottom 6 has 2 players like that to bring back. Therefore we get an advantage over our relegation rivals which I doubt they'd vote in favour of. There are loads of tiny examples like this which make extending beyond the end of June difficult.

I agree they'll have looked at what the options are but I don't think it's naive in the slightest to be concerned that there's a lot of things they haven't thought through, suggesting I'm naive is giving a lot of credit to an organisation that VAR alone shows doesn't really deserve it.

[Brassneck]

How would you determine the European places then?

I have always argued that relegation should be scrapped either if the season is voided OR it is played out behind closed doors.

My argument for playing behind closed doors is:

1. To determine the league chapions
2. To determine European places
3. To minimise the financial hit that clubs take.

The rules would have to be amended slightly in many ways (for example, the league table portrays both home and away games as per Rule C.3.2)

Surely you appreciate that it is much fairer to give the European chasing teams the opportunity to qualify?  Relegation could be scrapped in either scenario as it isn't a must.

Playing out the season with no relegations is the fairest and most financially beneficial option.

[aj2k77]

The rules of the competition are already fucked.

We've had a long break.
There may be less of a pre season.
Players will be older.
Players will be out of contract.
Games may be behind closed doors.

Who knows how it will pan out, I don't think the normal rigidity of them will apply though.

[Drummond]

Re saying it's a piece of piss. Whilst you didn't use that precise term, I think what you said below made it fairly clear you meant exactly that.

Re the players situations being easily resolved.

I'm not sure how it would be so easy. If a player has a contract until 30th June and another with another club from 1st July, on more money, why would he risk the second by asking to extend the first? He wouldn't. The second club also wouldn't want him being risked. There's nothing in Employment Law to force an employee to stay beyond their contract.

Then take the case of a club wanting to offload a player who was crap (say Drinkwater) but that would then affect their playing squad. What happens? He might insist he wants a longer deal than offered to stay on, otherwise he'll leave. He then leaves and our squad is potentially short of a player (that admittedly we didn't want) for crucial games. How do we replace him?

If the rules are then changed re naming squads etc, then clubs would argue that it wasn't a level playing field as they'd had to adjust (or other teams had or hadn't) in order to try and finish.

Then you've the players who feel their Health and Safety might be at risk playing, even behind closed doors, because you know, Jack Grealish, Kyle Walker or Declan Rice and others (along with the other staff too) might have decided to flout the rules and go out. They'd refuse to play and under Health and Safety and Employment Law they'd be protected.

So it's not as easy as you may think I'm afraid.

It really is.

Wasn't that much earlier in the thread, but there you go.

Regarding your thinking of playing behind closed doors and being safe. Who decides it's safe? The Premier League, Government, Clubs? Because whatever they say, the players could have a pretty strong excuse for saying they feel it's dangerous. And in my view, they'd have a pretty good case. But then that doesn't suit your narrative.

How could the players feel confident in what was being done?

As an example. I work in social care, and have front line workers who are afraid to go to work as they think their health, and that of their family and loved ones is being put at risk. My response, as a responsible employer is that I'm following all Government, NHS, Public Health England advice and guidance by providing PPE, face masks, gloves and aprons to those staff who may have to work with someone who has symptoms.

Tough choice isn't it? And I can't guarantee safety, neither can the NHS because front-line staff are dying.

So, seeing as you're so hell-bent on holding your position, maybe for the simple ones amongst us you could explain what 'safe means' for players who will inevitably come into close contact with other people. Because that's the acid test, isn't it?

[Brassneck]

The particular argument over being easy to suspend registrations is not the same as claiming the overall decision is "a piece of piss" so as I thought, you just included it to add value.

I would have thought it obvious to everyone that football will not be permitted until it gets the go ahead from the Government?

The world and his wife know what you do for a living - You've told us on more than one previous occasion.  Why do you twist every argument to compare with your own job?

It isn't for me to explain or determine when it is safe to play - I'm only arguing the pros for doing so when it is deemed safe

Instead of me continuing to explain myself to every Tom, Dick & Harry - How about you coming up with your own skewed ideas on a solution and I'll rip those to shreds for you.  Aren't you one of the "I don't care about football at the moment" brigade anyway?

[aev]

How many players also live with family members that have medical conditions that would require continued isolation even after the general public see an easing of restrictions?

[chrisw1]

I agree with Brassneck.  It will be very difficult to make it work but where there is a will there is usually a way.  And there's multi-millions of reasons why most clubs in the league would rather fiind a way if at all possible.

No solution will be completely fair.  I'm sure most clubs and pundits will argue playing the season out, whenever that may be and behind closed doors if necessary, will be more fair than voiding the season. 

I very much doubt a few blokes on an internet forum will have thought of any difficulties that they are not already considering.

Hopefully they'll realise as time goes by it can't be done, but it's no surprise they're going to try.