Post by: Footy-Vill on March 05, 2020, 11:02:38 PM
Football matches having been cancelled in Italy and the threat of an outbreak across England has now seen the premier league banning the pre match fair play hand shakes.
It's also reported that matches will be played behind closed doors.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/05/premier-league-matches-closed-doors-coronavirus-everton
This is both a concerning time in football and in life.
Post by: Louzie0 on March 05, 2020, 11:06:09 PM
I think some newspapers might wind it up.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 05, 2020, 11:10:50 PM
And if they don't lock down travel and public performances is that more for economic reasons ?
How do the premier league and Aston villa tackle this issue?
Like will the players now not celebrate with one another ?
I think it's all getting out of hand by the media but what's happening in Italy and how they are stopping all their sports could happen here ?
Post by: Louzie0 on March 05, 2020, 11:13:29 PM
Maybe we just go with the flow.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 06, 2020, 12:07:56 AM
That is what will happen in the UK
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 06, 2020, 12:12:45 AM
You also have the situation where outside the PL most footbal league/non league clubs will be fucked with playing games and no gate etc money coming in as well as refunding tickets already sold.
Post by: Colhint on March 06, 2020, 01:01:30 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 06, 2020, 05:46:43 AM
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51760339
Coronavirus: Premier League ditches pre-match fair-play handshakes
Post by: frank black on March 06, 2020, 06:33:41 AM
It may be relatively inert on people who are fit and well but those with conditions like asthma and older people are extremely vulnerable to this. I believe out of the 10 or so deaths in the USA 7/8 were all in the same care home. Yes the press love this sort of thing, but Big disruption is ahead.
Post by: Ugo on March 06, 2020, 08:16:18 AM
I fancy my chances of getting through this first global virus since social media has really taken off................
Post by: Mister E on March 06, 2020, 08:18:26 AM
0.001% of the population have so far caught this mass super spreading virus that is causing worldwide panic.Oh, well; that's good to know.
I fancy my chances of getting through this first global virus since social media has really taken off................
Now, for the rest of us ....
Post by: Ugo on March 06, 2020, 08:24:25 AM
I’ll have a bet you will be in the 99.999%.0.001% of the population have so far caught this mass super spreading virus that is causing worldwide panic.Oh, well; that's good to know.
I fancy my chances of getting through this first global virus since social media has really taken off................
Now, for the rest of us ....
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 06, 2020, 08:48:59 AM
Post by: Ugo on March 06, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
In China, the epicentre, 0.005% of the population has been infected.
New cases in China are declining.
3,000 people have died.
Swine flu killed between 150,000 and 550,000. I do not remember this mass panic then.
Social media and 24 hour news media has caused mass panic.
Post by: Villan82 on March 06, 2020, 09:06:12 AM
There are no projections that suggest 0.001% of the population will be affected. The number keeps increasing. You can keep acting full Boomer and using this as a stick to beat people who use social media, for some bizarre reason, if you like. I'll continue to listen to all the actual medical experts who are calling this a crisis. Because it is.
Well said.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 06, 2020, 09:18:58 AM
So far 0.001% of the population have been infected.
In China, the epicentre, 0.005% of the population has been infected.
New cases in China are declining.
3,000 people have died.
Swine flu killed between 150,000 and 550,000. I do not remember this mass panic then.
Social media and 24 hour news media has caused mass panic.
So all the Doctors are just after Facebook likes? It is declining in China because they are taking the sort of action that you would no doubt consider a massive overreaction if other countries followed suit. But which is probably what is needed.
Post by: Risso on March 06, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
So far 0.001% of the population have been infected.
In China, the epicentre, 0.005% of the population has been infected.
New cases in China are declining.
3,000 people have died.
Swine flu killed between 150,000 and 550,000. I do not remember this mass panic then.
Social media and 24 hour news media has caused mass panic.
Lots of people are going to catch it, and lots of older people with health conditions are going to be at serious risk of dying from it. That includes some of our older friends on here, and lots of our parents and family friends. My dad is in his seventies, has a bad heart and has beaten cancer twice, if he gets it, it could be a 1 in 10 chance of dying. Imagine somebody says to you, there are ten balls in this bag, 9 white and 1 black, if you pull out the black ball you're going to die. Wouldn't be so keen on playing along would you?
Post by: Ugo on March 06, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
We all have far more chance of developing standard pneumonia, around 0.345% based on figures I have just read. Coronavirus cases would have to increase over 300 fold worldwide to fall in line with this. An unlikely scenario.
Post by: olaftab on March 06, 2020, 09:51:57 AM
Post by: Ugo on March 06, 2020, 10:00:57 AM
The point is Ugo for all other issues you are providing stats for we have solutions for Corona we don’t and therefore it’s a concern. Quoting Wuhan figures in context of total population of China is also not helpful.What is your solution for pneumonia? Especially in those with underlying health issues?
Post by: Risso on March 06, 2020, 10:48:52 AM
Of course not, but with all due to respect to your father he has an extremely small chance of catching it. Like all of us.
We all have far more chance of developing standard pneumonia, around 0.345% based on figures I have just read. Coronavirus cases would have to increase over 300 fold worldwide to fall in line with this. An unlikely scenario.
I don't think your percentages are really based on very much are they?
Post by: Ugo on March 06, 2020, 11:11:54 AM
Well that particular one was based on reported cases from the British Lung Foundation.Of course not, but with all due to respect to your father he has an extremely small chance of catching it. Like all of us.
We all have far more chance of developing standard pneumonia, around 0.345% based on figures I have just read. Coronavirus cases would have to increase over 300 fold worldwide to fall in line with this. An unlikely scenario.
I don't think your percentages are really based on very much are they?
Post by: Risso on March 06, 2020, 11:18:42 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 06, 2020, 11:25:40 AM
I hope this stays in place even after this scare is over:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51760339
Coronavirus: Premier League ditches pre-match fair-play handshakes
Interesting isn't it that decision has been taken.
I imagine this is the same for managers ? And when the players toss off (don't!) with the ref and officials.
I think the fist pump or elbow touch will be the replacement for handshakes
I also hear that for the fair play pre match players will still walk past each other at this on pitch line up. But it's no handshake just acknowledging and respect!
I wonder how the players will be in the tunnel with each other . No touchy feely?
How players will be when helping another up and how players , mangers and coaching staff and supporters be when celebrating ?
Are we to give as much space and distance ,as our midfield and defense does, to one another ?
Post by: Small Rodent on March 06, 2020, 11:33:18 AM
Post by: Villa75 on March 06, 2020, 12:01:22 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 06, 2020, 12:08:57 PM
Post by: Des Little on March 06, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Just have the players wear gloves.
Anwar gets his on from September
Post by: Small Rodent on March 06, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
I'm currently re-watching my boxset of 'Survivors' (1975-77).
I remember it being very dark and candle-lit.
Post by: Drummond on March 06, 2020, 12:54:41 PM
Just have the players wear gloves.
And the ones that already do have to wear two pairs.
Post by: Villa75 on March 06, 2020, 01:10:38 PM
I'm currently re-watching my boxset of 'Survivors' (1975-77).
I remember it being very dark and candle-lit.
Only some of the night scenes 😂
I'm currently picking up some survival tips, should I be lucky enough to be one of the 10% that make it through. 😉
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 06, 2020, 02:36:18 PM
Post by: Border villan on March 06, 2020, 04:40:48 PM
Post by: fredm on March 07, 2020, 11:09:22 AM
Post by: algy on March 08, 2020, 08:43:30 AM
I think the start of next season may end up being severely disrupted, mind. It's one thing finishing off the last half dozen matches when the virus hasn't properly look hold, another thing entirely if it's become a pandemic. Depends on if we manage to deal with it over the summer, but I can see either games being played behind closed doors, or some cup competitions being suspended so that the season can start later in the year.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 08, 2020, 09:31:34 AM
Depends on if we manage to deal with it over the summer, but I can see either games being played behind closed doors, or some cup competitions being suspended so that the season can start later in the year.
Very interesting point and , out of interest, who do you reference as 'we'.
Because the European men's international tournament starting in June in Italy Rome And the tournament is to be played in 12 European countries including UK
Post by: algy on March 08, 2020, 11:41:45 AM
'we' - the UK as a whole, I guess. I was meaning more to delay the start of the season by removing fixtures from the fixture lists, and reducing cup competitions seems to be the easiest way to achieve that. I'd not covered (or considered) the Olympics or Euro 20, cos they don't really affect the Villa.Depends on if we manage to deal with it over the summer, but I can see either games being played behind closed doors, or some cup competitions being suspended so that the season can start later in the year.
Very interesting point and , out of interest, who do you reference as 'we'.
Because the European men's international tournament starting in June in Italy Rome And the tournament is to be played in 12 European countries including UK
Ideally I think you'd want to avoid playing games behind closed doors unless there really wasn't another option. It might not make a massive financial difference in the PL thanks to the TV revenue, but further down the divisions it'll risk putting clubs out of business of you remove that stream of income.
Going off topic, Euro 20 - ordinarily I'd say postpone it to 2021, but the WC in Qatar will make the fixtures a nightmare, so probably playing behind close doors makes more sense seeing as it'll be on TV anyway, so gate receipts less critical.
Post by: Demitri_C on March 09, 2020, 06:53:32 AM
That absolutely sucks
Post by: Flin5tone on March 09, 2020, 08:07:34 AM
Post by: CT on March 09, 2020, 08:16:15 AM
Looking at what's going on in Italy at the moment, I expect we'll see some level of action fairly soon. I'd be working on a 50:50 chance of the season finishing close-to-normal, maybe with just over 70s told to avoid the last few games of the season.
I think the start of next season may end up being severely disrupted, mind. It's one thing finishing off the last half dozen matches when the virus hasn't properly look hold, another thing entirely if it's become a pandemic. Depends on if we manage to deal with it over the summer, but I can see either games being played behind closed doors, or some cup competitions being suspended so that the season can start later in the year.
I heard on the news this morning that there were 17 flights from Milan to the UK yesterday with absolutely no checks on anyone on those planes.
Post by: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 08:47:36 AM
Post by: Kingthing on March 09, 2020, 08:48:20 AM
Anyone for Cricket?
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 09, 2020, 08:54:50 AM
Not for coronavirus but just because they are shit.
Post by: LeeB on March 09, 2020, 08:56:31 AM
Its probably a good time to ban half and half scarves.
Not for coronavirus but just because they are shit.
I hope they don't ban Nescafe handshakes, or my primary method of communication will go up the spout.
Post by: Villan For Life on March 09, 2020, 09:01:15 AM
Scrap the League and write this one off, We stay up, Liverpool have to try again next year.
Anyone for Cricket?
This. Imagine the collective angst in Liverpool, it would play right into their perennial victims psyche.
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 09, 2020, 09:05:38 AM
Its probably a good time to ban half and half scarves.
Not for coronavirus but just because they are shit.
I hope they don't ban Nescafe handshakes, or my primary method of communication will go up the spout.
West Ham and Chelsea fans offering each other out but remaining metres apart obviously saw this coming.
Post by: darren woolley on March 09, 2020, 11:06:42 AM
Post by: wozwebs on March 09, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
Post by: Flin5tone on March 09, 2020, 12:40:05 PM
People keep laughing the situation off "it's only a cold" but it's a worrying time for those of us that work in the Travel/Leisure/Entertainment industry. Virtually all shows at the NEC have been postponed putting hundreds of Casual Workers out of work for a few months
I'd be very surprised if we see Villa in action at Villa Park this weekend and the knock on from that means lots of staff without pay and 40,000 people frustrated they can't see their Team in action. I wonder if Season Ticket Holders will be refunded for the games that end up being played behind closed doors?
Post by: mallo on March 09, 2020, 01:07:10 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 09, 2020, 01:23:21 PM
It's affected me and my lad. He was supposed to be mascot tonight but Villa have made the decision to restrict access to the players from the public. All other games in the Prem had mascots the weekend so bit annoying. Promised another game though when it's all blown over.
Oh no ! Like to think that will be honoured and when occasion comes will be enjoyable and maybe some luck brought too !!
Let us know updates when you get the match.
And sorry to hear that isn't going ahead tonight for you and son
Post by: Demitri_C on March 09, 2020, 01:54:37 PM
This could have massive implications for us.
Post by: Ads on March 09, 2020, 02:10:03 PM
The prospect of not being able to go and watch us, speaking as an addict, is making my teeth itch. Far better to inconvenience Ingerlund.
Post by: Steve67 on March 09, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 09, 2020, 02:42:19 PM
Cancel the Euros till next year, bin next years Nations League rubbish and suspend the league for a month.
The prospect of not being able to go and watch us, speaking as an addict, is making my teeth itch. Far better to inconvenience Ingerlund.
Id be in favour of this
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 09, 2020, 03:08:08 PM
Prem games to go on as normal. I reckon they might review this in a few weeks if things get worse.Well things being worse isn't good for anyone
And I think responsibility and prevention to things getting worse needs to be taken into account.
Go the way of Italian Serie A
I certainly don't see England Italy being played as they won't play it behind closed doors so it will probably be cancels at end of month.
Post by: aev on March 09, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
I reckon there is a decent chance of that they would then cancel the season.
Post by: LukeJames on March 09, 2020, 07:28:24 PM
Post by: wozwebs on March 10, 2020, 09:03:25 AM
It's affected me and my lad. He was supposed to be mascot tonight but Villa have made the decision to restrict access to the players from the public. All other games in the Prem had mascots the weekend so bit annoying. Promised another game though when it's all blown over.
Oh no ! Like to think that will be honoured and when occasion comes will be enjoyable and maybe some luck brought too !!
Let us know updates when you get the match.
And sorry to hear that isn't going ahead tonight for you and son
Thanks for that. He was gutted, especially as Leicester had 4 mascots out there kicking about on the pitch before the game which he should have been doing too. Made no sense to me as the Leicester mascots walked past our players anyway!
Credit to Leicester though, I had emailed them to say George couldn't do it and they put a message on the screen and read it out on the tannoy saying "A special warm welcome tonight to George Davies, we hope you have a great night" which I thought was a great touch.
They have said he will be first choice for an away game once it is all over just sad to think it may be next season now and he really wanted to walk out with Jack. :(
Post by: Risso on March 10, 2020, 09:14:04 AM
Post by: wozwebs on March 10, 2020, 09:19:52 AM
They also had about 50 kids holding up that giant Leicester shirt.
Yep, yet my one lad couldn't be near the players. Daft one.
Post by: Small Rodent on March 10, 2020, 10:46:19 AM
Post by: mr underhill on March 10, 2020, 10:52:58 AM
Post by: Des Little on March 10, 2020, 11:07:44 AM
Post by: BC Villain on March 10, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 10, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
Credit to the team for keeping at least 1.5 metres from whoever they were supposed to be marking last night, at all times. Is there a fair play award we can get for such a lovely gesture?
Dark comedy that.
Post by: Flin5tone on March 10, 2020, 01:30:20 PM
The Australian wild fires,Brexit,Huge Tory Majority,Coronavirus just tops it off
Oh and we all follow the Villa.
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 01:32:04 PM
Post by: mr underhill on March 10, 2020, 01:52:15 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 03:07:59 PM
It's affected me and my lad. He was supposed to be mascot tonight but Villa have made the decision to restrict access to the players from the public. All other games in the Prem had mascots the weekend so bit annoying. Promised another game though when it's all blown over.
Oh no ! Like to think that will be honoured and when occasion comes will be enjoyable and maybe some luck brought too !!
Let us know updates when you get the match.
And sorry to hear that isn't going ahead tonight for you and son
Thanks for that. He was gutted, especially as Leicester had 4 mascots out there kicking about on the pitch before the game which he should have been doing too. Made no sense to me as the Leicester mascots walked past our players anyway!
Credit to Leicester though, I had emailed them to say George couldn't do it and they put a message on the screen and read it out on the tannoy saying "A special warm welcome tonight to George Davies, we hope you have a great night" which I thought was a great touch.
They have said he will be first choice for an away game once it is all over just sad to think it may be next season now and he really wanted to walk out with Jack. :(
Nice touch by Leicester for acknowledging.
Good wishes for when does get the gigg!
Post by: oldhill_avfc on March 10, 2020, 03:43:23 PM
brilliant otherwise we'd be running low on loo roll and cats and dogs.
And Dianne Abbott would be doing the stats - villa would be mid table and no virus
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 10, 2020, 04:10:29 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 04:56:00 PM
As well as the owner being tested positive the whole Nottingham Forest squad have been tested for virus
And Millwall have confirmed that Senior club representatives who came into contact with forest owner Mr Marinakis have all begun a period of self isolation, as per government advice.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 10, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
Quote
Matches in the top two divisions in Spain and France are to be played behind closed doors because of coronavirus concerns.
La Liga announced its ruling will affect the next two rounds of fixtures while the French league said fans will be banned until 15 April.
La Liga said it acted on guidance from Spain's ministry of health.
The French government announced on Sunday a ban on all gatherings of more than 1,000 people.
In Germany, Borussia Monchengladbach's Bundesliga tie against Cologne on Wednesday night will take place behind close doors, as will five of the nine top-flight matches over the weekend.
Union Berlin's match against Bayern Munich on Saturday will go ahead with fans present, but the status of the other three games is yet to be decided.
Germany's health minister Jens Spahn has called for gatherings of more than 1,000 people to be cancelled and several regional governments have issued such bans.
Barcelona's Champions League match against Napoli on 18 March will also be played at an empty Nou Camp.
"The decision has been made strictly for health reasons," said Joan Guix, Catalunya government's health chief.
It is the second Spanish-Italian Champions League fixture at which supporters have been banned, following Valencia versus Atalanta on Tuesday.
Sevilla's match against Roma and Getafe's game with Inter Milan in the Europa League have suffered the same fate.
Paris St-Germain's Champions League match against Borussia Dortmund on Wednesday will also be closed to fans.
The Spanish players' union AFE have called for the suspension of all men's and women's football in the country.
In letters to the Higher Sports Council, Spanish football federation (RFEF) and La Liga, it said the request was "exclusively about the health of the players" the body represents.
"In addition, playing in stadiums closed to the public for several weeks undermines the meaning of sports competitions," AFE added.
All sport in Italy has been suspended until at least 3 April because of coronavirus. The ruling includes Serie A matches but not Italian clubs or national teams participating in international competitions.
Germany's international friendly with Italy in Nuremberg on 31 March will also be played behind closed doors. England are due to play Italy at Wembley four days earlier.
Manchester United's Europa League last-16 first leg match at LASK Linz in Austria on Thursday is another match that will be played without fans.
Post by: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:50:35 PM
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 11:05:45 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 11:08:21 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 10, 2020, 11:08:51 PM
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on March 10, 2020, 11:12:20 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 10, 2020, 11:20:32 PM
As long as it takes. Playing it behind closed doors is utterly shite. Football without fans? What's the point.
Well, Serie A are talking about not finishing the season. One of the options is just leaving the table as it is.
If the Premier League took that option, we would be relegated. Our only chance of survival is completing the season, or at least playing enough games to get to the giddy heights of seventeenth.
I can't see them just delaying the season indefinitely. You would have the European competitions starting without knowing which teams are in them. That makes no sense.
Now, obviously, I hope we finish the season properly in front of crowds. But I'd rather play in front of empty stadia than risk relegation by default.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 10, 2020, 11:25:05 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 10, 2020, 11:31:36 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 10, 2020, 11:40:14 PM
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 11:42:05 PM
As long as it takes. Playing it behind closed doors is utterly shite. Football without fans? What's the point.
Well, Serie A are talking about not finishing the season. One of the options is just leaving the table as it is.
If the Premier League took that option, we would be relegated. Our only chance of survival is completing the season, or at least playing enough games to get to the giddy heights of seventeenth.
I can't see them just delaying the season indefinitely. You would have the European competitions starting without knowing which teams are in them. That makes no sense.
Now, obviously, I hope we finish the season properly in front of crowds. But I'd rather play in front of empty stadia than risk relegation by default.
You had me at paragraph 1. Don't finish the season. Let's pretend it didn't happen.
The potential hilarity of Monday night 5 aside with 6 or 7 Scouse season ticket holders would cause both my testicles to fall off through laughter. And we would stay up loike.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 10, 2020, 11:44:26 PM
Post by: OzVilla on March 11, 2020, 05:05:26 AM
Post by: frank black on March 11, 2020, 06:24:28 AM
Post by: andyh on March 11, 2020, 06:28:48 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 11, 2020, 06:28:55 AM
It'll have to be closed doors I think, can't see anything being scrapped. Thing is, once it starts and games begin to be postponed it's hard to see where you'd re-arrange.
Post by: Fred Crump on March 11, 2020, 06:42:10 AM
Post by: sid1964 on March 11, 2020, 06:54:33 AM
Post by: Ads on March 11, 2020, 07:09:01 AM
I would not be surprised if ALL football was cancelled this weekend.
We've not played football since January. Villa once again, blazing the trail.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 11, 2020, 07:18:12 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 11, 2020, 07:31:35 AM
Post by: Big Ming on March 11, 2020, 07:33:49 AM
If games get postponed what’s the max time this could occur without scrapping the leagues? 2-3 weeks? This is going to get a lot worse and I expect we are going to have to have closed doors games. Either that or scrap it and put the teams into playoff games to decide promotion/relegation (god knows how that could work either, teams would commence legal challenges etc) . Unprecedented timesIt's not just the fans. If it gets into the players (even a smattering across the Leagues) football is finished for the next few months.
Eventually promotion/relegation or neither may well be an issue for the Courts.
Post by: frank black on March 11, 2020, 07:53:45 AM
Post by: Big Ming on March 11, 2020, 07:56:40 AM
Cancel the season and make promotion/relegation based upon positions now? Do the playoffs in the Summer. Pay out massive compensation to all teams that could mathematically have stayed up etc. Give Liverpool the title and let fans tease them forevermore About their tainted trophy.Voiding the entire season would be more likely?
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 08:13:52 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 11, 2020, 08:22:46 AM
Post by: brian green on March 11, 2020, 08:27:36 AM
Post by: brian green on March 11, 2020, 08:31:37 AM
Post by: VillaSpen on March 11, 2020, 08:34:45 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 08:57:38 AM
Post by: Big Ming on March 11, 2020, 09:01:37 AM
The Premier League game between Manchester City and Arsenal at the Etihad Stadium on Wednesday has been postponed “as a precautionary measure” due to the coronavirus outbreak, the Premier League has said. Following the news that Olympiakos owner Evangelos Marinakis had contracted the virus, Arsenal confirmed that an unspecified number of unnamed players met Marinakis after their Europa League tie on the 27 February and that those players are now in self-isolation.He also owns Forest, I think.
Post by: mallo on March 11, 2020, 09:09:05 AM
Post by: LukeJames on March 11, 2020, 09:12:07 AM
Dean Smith went to Rome during the mid season break.
In a Ford Mondeo?
Post by: wozwebs on March 11, 2020, 09:13:25 AM
Post by: Perthvillan on March 11, 2020, 09:32:44 AM
The 1939/40 season was abandoned and there was no league football for seven years.
When The Football League recommended in August 1946 the same set of fixtures were used from the abandoned 1939/40 season which means that they were virtually replaying that incomplete season.
I know it's a stretch but I think this current season 2019/20 should be abandoned and recommended from August 2020.
We could sign a few decent PL quality players in the summer and go again.
Liverpool might have to wait another 30 years to win a title too.
The precedent exists for this to happen although it was a long time ago and before the PL existed.
Post by: phantom limb on March 11, 2020, 09:34:25 AM
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 11, 2020, 09:40:18 AM
Post by: TheMalandro on March 11, 2020, 09:43:05 AM
I think the cancellation of the season is fast becoming a reality, this virus spreads faster than flood water, its even into the political parties now which says even aliens from a galaxy far far away can be exposed to this, nobody on this planet can make me believe these morons running us, as we see today, ( Budget) are from this world.
Agree, I think it’s inevitable.
I think Chelsea will be our last game of the season.
Post by: Des Little on March 11, 2020, 09:46:00 AM
I think the cancellation of the season is fast becoming a reality, this virus spreads faster than flood water, its even into the political parties now which says even aliens from a galaxy far far away can be exposed to this, nobody on this planet can make me believe these morons running us, as we see today, ( Budget) are from this world.
Agree, I think it’s inevitable.
I think Chelsea will be our last game of the season.
Will we be doing a lap of appreciation?
Post by: TheMalandro on March 11, 2020, 09:57:34 AM
I think the cancellation of the season is fast becoming a reality, this virus spreads faster than flood water, its even into the political parties now which says even aliens from a galaxy far far away can be exposed to this, nobody on this planet can make me believe these morons running us, as we see today, ( Budget) are from this world.
Agree, I think it’s inevitable.
I think Chelsea will be our last game of the season.
Will we be doing a lap of appreciation?
I haven’t really done anything to warrant it.
Post by: OzVilla on March 11, 2020, 10:03:49 AM
Post by: Small Rodent on March 11, 2020, 10:09:09 AM
Post by: sid1964 on March 11, 2020, 10:26:54 AM
Post by: Big Ming on March 11, 2020, 10:39:38 AM
Do you think that they will bring back the Pools Panel (for those old enough to remember) who will guess the scores for all the remaining games - I still reckon we would be relegated!They will be hearing off some very rich people's lawyers if they try that one.
Post by: Drummond on March 11, 2020, 10:59:19 AM
I'm sure there will be some rule somewhere about what happens, but as has been said, who'd make a decision until told to by the powers that be.
Post by: exigo on March 11, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
Post by: Small Rodent on March 11, 2020, 11:14:51 AM
Serie A are contemplating using the current standings as the final table. We absolutely have to win on Saturday and get out of the bottom three, just in case.
Yes, and play our game in hand. All teams should finish with equal games.
Post by: OzVilla on March 11, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
Post by: Border villan on March 11, 2020, 11:19:02 AM
I think this is going to get extremely serious unfortunately, as much as I will grasp at any straw to buy some time for Villa, this wouldn't be something I would wish for, a lot of people will die with this, the naysayers, with the. ''don't panic Mr Mannering'', approach or that this in some way is some kind of conspiracy to polish of an aged demo graph is quickly proving to be very wrong, I have always thought when you see people wondering around sanitising places like China, fully kitted out to try and stop infection, one of the most secretive countries on the planet happy to have camera's everywhere all of a sudden, the open admittance by government that they have lost control, as in Italy, the entire shut down of a country, the collapse of the money markets the threat of global recession, you know this is somewhat more serious than Flu.
“Captain Mainwaring”.
Post by: Drummond on March 11, 2020, 11:25:07 AM
Would playing behind closed doors be better for us. Maybe the players would feel less pressure, that training ground atmosphere that our players seem to revel in, maybe the opposition would lack intensity, more chance of gaining points away. There are cases to be made for it helping us.
It's a good point to be fair.
Post by: sid1964 on March 11, 2020, 11:35:00 AM
Post by: Des Little on March 11, 2020, 12:02:20 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on March 11, 2020, 12:31:59 PM
Post by: Big Ming on March 11, 2020, 12:48:39 PM
If the season is stopped, there's a shit-load of court appearances going to happen. If it's not, and games are played behind closed doors, it will be crap and soulless. Football is about the supporters after all... I can imagine SKY charging pay-per-view to show every game live.They can only play behind closed doors if actual players aren't infected.
I'm sure there will be some rule somewhere about what happens, but as has been said, who'd make a decision until told to by the powers that be.
Post by: amfy on March 11, 2020, 12:49:09 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 11, 2020, 12:51:57 PM
Post by: Chipsticks on March 11, 2020, 01:06:18 PM
One of the options Serie A are considering if they do decide to cancel the season is playoffs to decide titles/relegation etc. Although when those games would be played is another problem considering they'd have cancelled football.
The only conceivable solution I can imagine is:
- The Premier League season postponed until further notice
- Resumes Once Covid-19 has died down
- If this conflicts with the Euro's, I imagine the winter break period will be messed with to ensure fixtures can be crammed in
Post by: CT on March 11, 2020, 01:23:53 PM
Then start again in August, virus permitting. Seems sensible and fair to me 😏
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 11, 2020, 01:30:29 PM
Post by: ironmaidenmania on March 11, 2020, 01:32:47 PM
Post by: mallo on March 11, 2020, 02:38:07 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 02:41:33 PM
Some postponement but like the European comps playing behind closed doors.
The talk too of give subsidence to the lower league to cover costs in the loss of match attending fees.
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 11, 2020, 03:42:52 PM
Post by: Ads on March 11, 2020, 03:56:37 PM
Post by: phantom limb on March 11, 2020, 05:11:24 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 11, 2020, 05:15:57 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 11, 2020, 09:35:48 PM
It’s officially a pandemic now, so let’s just postpone everything and start again next season. No relegations for anyone, it wouldn’t be fair in the circumstances and would also give the authorities a chance to sort VAR out for next season as well. Win win all round.
Gets my vote.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 11, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on March 11, 2020, 10:26:57 PM
So far 0.001% of the population have been infected.it's also worth checking out just how many people die each year in England and Wales from Flu related ailments - it's measured in thousands .....I don't recall the press or news outlets releasing daily figures of newly diagnosed flu patients previously - it's obviously concerning, especially for vulnerable people ( I fit into that category as a diabetic) but there does appear to be an attempt to cause widespread panic for some reason .
In China, the epicentre, 0.005% of the population has been infected.
New cases in China are declining.
3,000 people have died.
Swine flu killed between 150,000 and 550,000. I do not remember this mass panic then.
Social media and 24 hour news media has caused mass panic.
I find it odd that people are "scared to shake hands" but will then jump into a car and drive at 80mph on a motorway and not see the risk - I've heard of builders/operatives concerned about entering clients homes because of the exposure to the virus but will merrily drill into Asbestos Insulating Board without PPE
Post by: mallo on March 11, 2020, 10:35:19 PM
Post by: David_Nab on March 11, 2020, 11:48:09 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 11, 2020, 11:49:41 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 12, 2020, 12:01:28 AM
Would give all leagues flexibility to play into June at least if the virus spread eventually slows.
Post by: David_Nab on March 12, 2020, 12:25:23 AM
No way will Euros happen this summer.
Would give all leagues flexibility to play into June at least if the virus spread eventually slows.
No chance with them spread over numerous countries , they be lucky to finish the champs league/europa league
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 12:32:45 AM
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 12:35:38 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 12, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
Post by: eamonn on March 12, 2020, 12:58:15 AM
Pick a fan of each team, play the games using FIFA 20 and input those scores into the final table. We can all watch on Youtube and we might stay up!
Richard E is our man.
Post by: Flin5tone on March 12, 2020, 12:58:52 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 12, 2020, 02:15:32 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2020, 02:19:49 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 03:05:21 AM
Post by: Ian. on March 12, 2020, 06:53:40 AM
Post by: sid1964 on March 12, 2020, 06:55:30 AM
I think they will suspend the season until the middle of April and then play the remaining games over a 6 week period.
The Euros i should imagine will take place next summer.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 06:58:04 AM
And still you get some going on about the flu while we're seeing stuff that's pretty much unprecedented to most of us. Major countries on shut down, travel restrictions, seasons being suspended, games behind closed doors and so on.
Are they hiding then potential impacts of it? I’ve never known anything like it in my lifetime?!
Post by: frank black on March 12, 2020, 06:58:52 AM
It will be such a shame if games are played behind closed doors - if they are to be honest, I don't think I would be bothered to watch them or be that interested in the result.
I think they will suspend the season until the middle of April and then play the remaining games over a 6 week period.
The Euros i should imagine will take place next summer.
Mid April could well be peak Virus outbreak. 🤷♂️
Post by: charleeco7 on March 12, 2020, 06:59:21 AM
Would we be entitled to a partial refund on our season tickets?
Apparently not, on the basis it’ll be out of control of the clubs.
Post by: sid1964 on March 12, 2020, 07:20:23 AM
I heard on the radio that the PSG fans turned up in there thousands last night and stood outside their ground, whilst the game was going on.
For me there is more to this virus than we are being told - my mother thinks that Chinese have dug something up from the ground that has started all this (bless her heart!)
Post by: robbo1874 on March 12, 2020, 07:21:47 AM
Post by: mr underhill on March 12, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Post by: brian green on March 12, 2020, 07:33:08 AM
Post by: walsall villain on March 12, 2020, 07:33:47 AM
Post by: frank black on March 12, 2020, 07:48:14 AM
Post by: curlytailavfc on March 12, 2020, 07:56:14 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on March 12, 2020, 07:59:08 AM
i would not be surprised if there was an announcement today, that will mean games played behind closed doors this weekend.
I heard on the radio that the PSG fans turned up in there thousands last night and stood outside their ground, whilst the game was going on.
For me there is more to this virus than we are being told - my mother thinks that Chinese have dug something up from the ground that has started all this (bless her heart!)
Bless her, mate!
That sounds like something from an old B-movie, like the Blob.
Post by: JJ-AV on March 12, 2020, 08:06:23 AM
However, if it saves one life it's the right thing to do. Much bigger than football.
Post by: Brassneck on March 12, 2020, 08:37:18 AM
i would not be surprised if there was an announcement today, that will mean games played behind closed doors this weekend.
I heard on the radio that the PSG fans turned up in there thousands last night and stood outside their ground, whilst the game was going on.
For me there is more to this virus than we are being told - my mother thinks that Chinese have dug something up from the ground that has started all this (bless her heart!)
I'm expecting an announcement today. I'm hoping that they allow fans there on Saturday but I'm not holding my breath. I've got tickets for Liverpool and Newcastle as well so I'm expecting refunds on those. I'll take the season ticket money on the chin provided I can watch the home AND away games on VTV.
Post by: Small Rodent on March 12, 2020, 09:30:43 AM
I've got a season ticket, a trip to Marrakech booked as well as a trip to two Euros games (Spain/Poland and a QF in Munich), as well as Glastonbury inbetween. I imagine tickets are refunded but the rest of it - flights and accomodation etc. will be lost.
However, if it saves one life it's the right thing to do. Much bigger than football.
Well said. It's a monetary inconvenience, of course, but one has to look at the bigger picture.
Post by: Drummond on March 12, 2020, 09:37:20 AM
Merge this season and next. 76 game season to ensure that those who've done well retain their advantages and vice versa. Job done.
That's the fairest idea I've heard.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 09:45:03 AM
A decision to make all games in the PL behind closed doors is imminent apparently.
The current season will not be postponed and instead matches in the Premier League and lower divisions will be moved behind closed doors
● All Premier League season-ticket holders and ticket holders for individual games will be able to stream coverage of matches into their homes
● No games will be shown in pubs so as to avoid congregation of people
● Season-ticket holders and ticket holders for individual games at Football League clubs will be allowed to watch matches on iFollow streams
● Premier League games will not be shown live in the 3pm slot on Saturday afternoons
● Broadcasters will be permitted to screen more than one Premier League game during both the lunchtime and tea-time television slots on Saturday, and the scheduled slots on Sundays and Mondays
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 09:48:47 AM
Very much.
"Broadcasters will be permitted to screen more than one Premier League game during both the lunchtime and tea-time television slots on Saturday, and the scheduled slots on Sundays and Mondays"
So sounds like possibly some of Villa fixtures will be rescheduled by kick off times. And the days they are to be played.
Post by: sid1964 on March 12, 2020, 09:54:54 AM
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 09:57:58 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on March 12, 2020, 10:03:41 AM
For me there is more to this virus than we are being told
It’s obviously very serious for those with respiratory weaknesses, I’ve read that 1 in 20 may need hospitalisation. Im thinking that the threat is more of overwhelming countries health systems meaning they can’t cope.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 10:20:05 AM
Juve have been playing behind closed doors, yet one of their players contracted it. Utterly nonsensical. Suspension is the only sensible option.
Suspension would lead to cancellation and would see us relegated. Behind closed doors is the best of all the bad possible options.
Post by: Brassneck on March 12, 2020, 10:38:55 AM
Juve have been playing behind closed doors, yet one of their players contracted it. Utterly nonsensical. Suspension is the only sensible option.
Suspension would lead to cancellation and would see us relegated. Behind closed doors is the best of all the bad possible options.
Could see us relegated. Another option is to just void the season - Or as someone else suggested, combine it with next season to make a 76 game season.
Behind closed doors won't stop people going to the grounds as PSG demonstrated last night.
Post by: aev on March 12, 2020, 10:43:19 AM
Yikes
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 10:46:46 AM
Juve have been playing behind closed doors, yet one of their players contracted it. Utterly nonsensical. Suspension is the only sensible option.
Suspension would lead to cancellation and would see us relegated. Behind closed doors is the best of all the bad possible options.
Could see us relegated. Another option is to just void the season - Or as someone else suggested, combine it with next season to make a 76 game season.
Behind closed doors won't stop people going to the grounds as PSG demonstrated last night.
I don't think people would turn up to stand outside empty grounds here. Just doesn't seem like the sort of thing people will do.
They can't go for a 76 game season as would mess up next season's European competitions. And in any case, if playing 38 games this season has the likes of Klopp and Guardiola moaning their head off, how do you think they would cope with 48 next term? That's never going to happen.
They aren't going to void the season three-quarters of the way through. They won't inconvenience Liverpool to benefit Aston Villa and Norwich. That would annoy millions of
Behind closed doors or season finishing as it is are the only options.
I prefer the first option that gives us a chance of avoiding relegation.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 10:48:10 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 10:52:40 AM
And still you get some going on about the flu while we're seeing stuff that's pretty much unprecedented to most of us. Major countries on shut down, travel restrictions, seasons being suspended, games behind closed doors and so on.
Are they hiding then potential impacts of it? I’ve never known anything like it in my lifetime?!
It's been said testing between 1,000 and 2,000 people a day in the UK is delaying things when other countries have capabilities to test 10,000 .
Though now the NHS has confirmed they will increase Coronavirus testing to 10,000 a day to get a handle on things.
In UK they take too long to get things done! So I'm so pleased step up in action has been taken
Post by: OzVilla on March 12, 2020, 10:52:52 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 10:54:18 AM
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 10:55:52 AM
If they suspend the league, then it ought to be for a month, then review and roll over depending on the present situation of what the spread of the virus is.
If that means we kick future seasons down the track, so be it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 10:59:07 AM
Post by: Brassneck on March 12, 2020, 10:59:18 AM
Juve have been playing behind closed doors, yet one of their players contracted it. Utterly nonsensical. Suspension is the only sensible option.
Suspension would lead to cancellation and would see us relegated. Behind closed doors is the best of all the bad possible options.
Could see us relegated. Another option is to just void the season - Or as someone else suggested, combine it with next season to make a 76 game season.
Behind closed doors won't stop people going to the grounds as PSG demonstrated last night.
I don't think people would turn up to stand outside empty grounds here. Just doesn't seem like the sort of thing people will do.
They can't go for a 76 game season as would mess up next season's European competitions. And in any case, if playing 38 games this season has the likes of Klopp and Guardiola moaning their head off, how do you think they would cope with 48 next term? That's never going to happen.
They aren't going to void the season three-quarters of the way through. They won't inconvenience Liverpool to benefit Aston Villa and Norwich. That would annoy millions ofglory-hunting twatscustomers all over the world.
Behind closed doors or season finishing as it is are the only options.
I prefer the first option that gives us a chance of avoiding relegation.
We can enter who we like for Europe so as it stands currently could determine European spots - We aren't the only country that is being affected - UEFA would support any sensible suggestions.
It could even be just 38 games, with what has been played this season added on. That said, Klopp etc would have to accept the exceptional circumstances. The League cup could be suspended for one season. There are loads of different options.
Some would win, some would lose by the emergency measures but as others have said, there are more important things than football.
Post by: mr underhill on March 12, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 11:04:05 AM
It’s supposed to be a sport, a spectator sport. Without the fans attending what’s the point. Just suspend it.
I get your frustrations and if you mean spectator as in attendance then yes that is annoying .
However football wise could be some merits to no crowd . So as much as the support and backing players get there can be some who much prefer the training ground time and though eerry atmosphere players who don't thrive or at least get affected in front of a crowd may play better.
There's an argument that players can be more focused though most professional players are use to the crowd noise but those who aren't so affiliated to villa or the non UK players then going out to play football with or without strangers watching them is no big deal.
One thing it can separate is the real players who can step up and adapt .who can self motivate
It's a test psychologically as much as it is playing in front of an audience.
I think certainly some players s thrive more off a crowd or get affected by them in negative way.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 11:04:45 AM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 12, 2020, 11:05:50 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 12, 2020, 11:15:42 AM
Post by: TheMalandro on March 12, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Crowd or no crowd.
It is only a game.
Don't relegate us though!
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 11:23:42 AM
No relegation taking place
Liverpool awarded league title with *
The note being on their records Only player 30 games that season .
I think many of us here are in agreement that a relegation should not be given to any football club when a season hasn't been concluded (apart from teams that break rules)
So I think they would rather risk upsetting EFL promotions than the premier league elite who are a different entity.
I think Leeds and WBA are going to be the ones that don't get promoted rather because premier league clubs vote or otherwise wouldn't allow clubs to be relegated 'unfairly'
And as people say the legal dispute by premier league clubs can be avoided.
Post by: Des Little on March 12, 2020, 11:25:45 AM
Post by: luke95 on March 12, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
Then calmly sit back, and watch the noses go into meltdown at how spawny the vile are once again.
Post by: robbo1874 on March 12, 2020, 11:43:11 AM
Post by: Small Rodent on March 12, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
But next season starts with positive and negative coefficients for all teams?
Or next season strats with all teams on the points they finished this season?
Post by: robbo1874 on March 12, 2020, 12:03:41 PM
Cancel the season and no relegation/promotion.yes. Apart from Leeds
But next season starts with positive and negative coefficients for all teams?
Or next season strats with all teams on the points they finished this season?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 12:18:02 PM
Cancel the season and no relegation/promotion.
But next season starts with positive and negative coefficients for all teams?
Or next season strats with all teams on the points they finished this season?
Even that wouldn't be fair as some clubs, including ourselves, would have played a game less than anyone else. I suppose you could just add the game in hand to next season's fixture list.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2020, 12:18:30 PM
Post by: sid1964 on March 12, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 12:23:19 PM
they could make us play Sheffield United in our and their game in hand and the result of that will decide our final league position
Imagine how stressful that would be.
Post by: aev on March 12, 2020, 12:25:14 PM
they could make us play Sheffield United in our and their game in hand and the result of that will decide our final league position
Imagine how stressful that would be.
They hate West Ham , revenge is a dish best served cold.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 12:30:19 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 12:35:15 PM
they could make us play Sheffield United in our and their game in hand and the result of that will decide our final league position
Imagine how stressful that would be.
They hate West Ham , revenge is a dish best served cold.
But if the season stopped now and we just played that one game in hand, they'd need a win to qualify for the Champions League. No way they'd be letting us win.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2020, 12:35:29 PM
I just can't see them ending the season and going by current standings. The legal side of that is massive of clubs affected. How many clubs get relegated/promoted/into the playoffs on the last day. Look at Leicester, at this stage in 2015 they were bottom and 7 points from safety, pretty much everyone thought they were gone. And we know how that went.Agree they would spend the next months being sued.
It is possible that there are provisions in the PL /clubs contracts for such an event.
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 01:04:04 PM
Destroy Carthage and suspend the league.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 12, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
Post by: phantom limb on March 12, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 12, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Liverpool aren't champions, Albion and Leeds stay in the 2nd division and we stay up. The perfect scenario.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 12, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 01:34:58 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 01:35:33 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 01:37:30 PM
Post by: frank black on March 12, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
Turns out it's us, Reina, Jota and Drinky were all wheezing after doing a sprint run...
Reinas still not back
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 02:01:26 PM
In the light of the ongoing developments in the spread of COVID-19 across Europe and the changing analysis of the World Health Organisation, UEFA has today invited representatives of its 55 member associations, together with the boards of the European Club Association and the European Leagues and a representative of FIFPro, to attend meetings by videoconference on Tuesday 17 March to discuss European football’s response to the outbreak.
'Discussions will include all domestic and European competitions, including UEFA EURO 2020.
'Further communication will be made following those meetings.'
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2020, 02:06:12 PM
An unnamed Premier League club is testing all players after three displayed symptoms.
Leicester. It explains why our defence and midfield avoided them on Monday.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 02:06:50 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 02:07:01 PM
I expect that there is a push to have the premier league completed behind closed doors matches but there could be serious consideration today or Tuesday that the league will be suspended.
If it isn't there should be serious question as to why because serious measure needed to combat the virus.
The UK taking too long on measures as is the premier league.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 02:10:36 PM
That’s just to discuss the Paddy’s Day celebrations.
Have you not heard ! that's canceled ! Ireland government have taken measures to closed schools and colleges.
That UK should be taken significant measures should be a matter of time.
Though here will just be some small measure I doubt England will close anything as they don't take drastic measures here. Same with the premier league and push for behind closed doors When other European nations are being far more wise.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 02:22:19 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 12, 2020, 02:22:26 PM
Post by: simon ward 50 on March 12, 2020, 02:24:05 PM
Leicester City players self-isolating!
Surely we get awarded the 3 points from Monday by default?
Post by: TheMalandro on March 12, 2020, 02:25:17 PM
Leicester are the team under investigation. Cancel Saturday!
Better not be Vardy, he's a neighbour!
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 02:27:30 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51856906
Leicester City players self-isolating!
Surely we get awarded the 3 points from Monday by default?
Dean post post match interview.
‘Our players were affected massively by cold sweats throughout the game and the VAR decision on the penalty was ludicrous.’
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 12, 2020, 02:29:04 PM
Post by: frank black on March 12, 2020, 02:34:41 PM
Leicester are the team under investigation. Cancel Saturday!
Well that's worrying and now things moving so quickly with clubs and players experiencing flu symptoms of covid-19
Now with players being ill the league should be closed
If positive then we will have to put our players in isolation for at least a week...but ultimately the bigger decision is to suspend all games?
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 12, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Leicester are the team under investigation. Cancel Saturday!
Well that's worrying and now things moving so quickly with clubs and players experiencing flu symptoms of covid-19
Now with players being ill the league should be closed
If positive then we will have to put our players in isolation for at least a week...but ultimately the bigger decision is to suspend all games?
Well we don't play for another three weeks after Saturday anyway.
And before anyone else puts in the quick win joke we haven't played a premier league game since January 21st in any case.....
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2020, 02:37:27 PM
I see the sense of humor bypass operation was successful :DThat’s just to discuss the Paddy’s Day celebrations.
Have you not heard ! that's canceled ! Ireland government have taken measures to closed schools and colleges.
That UK should be taken significant measures should be a matter of time.
Though here will just be some small measure I doubt England will close anything as they don't take drastic measures here. Same with the premier league and push for behind closed doors When other European nations are being far more wise.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 02:39:46 PM
Now these players could be over reacting or being cautious. Or the club could be. However I do think a lot more clarity is needed for people to understand covid-19.
A lot of people are unknown on this and that why effective testing and early testing is needed as well as hygiene.
This unfortunate situation should see football clubs closing down not just football matches
Post by: Villa75 on March 12, 2020, 02:41:18 PM
Leicester are the team under investigation. Cancel Saturday!
Well that's worrying and now things moving so quickly with clubs and players experiencing flu symptoms of covid-19
Now with players being ill the league should be closed
Nobody has said the players are experiencing "flu symptoms" ??
It's a precaution to very minor signs, which may amount to nothing other than a sniffle. Right thing to do given the current climate, but let's not blow everything out of proportion
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 02:42:45 PM
I see the sense of humor bypass operation was successful :DThat’s just to discuss the Paddy’s Day celebrations.
Have you not heard ! that's canceled ! Ireland government have taken measures to closed schools and colleges.
That UK should be taken significant measures should be a matter of time.
Though here will just be some small measure I doubt England will close anything as they don't take drastic measures here. Same with the premier league and push for behind closed doors When other European nations are being far more wise.
What's funny about older people at greater risk of dying ? And everyone having serious health concern. St Patrick's is the least of some people's concerns when there is covid-19.
Has to be taken seriously for me
Post by: Border villan on March 12, 2020, 02:43:29 PM
This explains why our players stayed the required one metre from them on Monday.Leicester are the team under investigation. Cancel Saturday!
Well that's worrying and now things moving so quickly with clubs and players experiencing flu symptoms of covid-19
Now with players being ill the league should be closed
Nobody has said the players are experiencing "flu symptoms" ??
It's a precaution to very minor signs, which may amount to nothing other than a sniffle. Right thing to fo, given the current climate, but let's not blow everything out of proportion
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2020, 02:44:01 PM
Are you completely stupid ?I see the sense of humor bypass operation was successful :DThat’s just to discuss the Paddy’s Day celebrations.
Have you not heard ! that's canceled ! Ireland government have taken measures to closed schools and colleges.
That UK should be taken significant measures should be a matter of time.
Though here will just be some small measure I doubt England will close anything as they don't take drastic measures here. Same with the premier league and push for behind closed doors When other European nations are being far more wise.
What's funny about older people at greater risk of dying ? And everyone having serious health concern. St Patrick's is the least of some people's concerns when there is covid-19.
Has to be taken seriously for me
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 02:50:58 PM
I see the sense of humor bypass operation was successful :DThat’s just to discuss the Paddy’s Day celebrations.
Have you not heard ! that's canceled ! Ireland government have taken measures to closed schools and colleges.
That UK should be taken significant measures should be a matter of time.
Though here will just be some small measure I doubt England will close anything as they don't take drastic measures here. Same with the premier league and push for behind closed doors When other European nations are being far more wise.
Hahaha that made me laugh. I didn’t have the heart to say anything.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2020, 02:51:04 PM
If you don’t get humor then surely it’s time for another flounce.
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 02:57:11 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 12, 2020, 03:03:22 PM
yes you are the self appointed patronizing expert on this and other subjectS to the point of tediousness.No need. Some things get lost in tranlation and not everybody has a brilliant wit like you.
If you don’t get humor then surely it’s time for another flounce.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 12, 2020, 03:12:38 PM
Anyway, I hope the games called off Saturday, mainly to avoid the virus spreading, but also as villa are shite at the moment.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 12, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Post by: Villa75 on March 12, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
Leicester are the team under investigation. Cancel Saturday!
Well that's worrying and now things moving so quickly with clubs and players experiencing flu symptoms of covid-19
Now with players being ill the league should be closed
Nobody has said the players are experiencing "flu symptoms" ??
It's a precaution to very minor signs, which may amount to nothing other than a sniffle. Right thing to do given the current climate, but let's not blow everything out of proportion
What are you taking about Brendon Rogers has clearly said 3 players have symptoms.
I've seen the interview twice and, unless I'm missing something, Brendon Rogers did not mention coronavirus. Hence Sky Sports removing their quotation marks when adding the word to their ticker tape report.
Every sniffle or sore throat, of which millions suffer frequently, is going to turn into coronavirus. Every "precaution" does not have to be major news . Although, when you're trying to fill 24 hours every day, I can see why Sky, et al, would treat it as such.
Post by: andyh on March 12, 2020, 03:27:44 PM
Post by: Mouse Potato on March 12, 2020, 03:33:01 PM
I'm guessing that although 3 Leicester players are displaying symptoms and have been put into isolation, Villa have no concerns because even though we played them on Monday, we didn't get anywhere near any of them.
Funny, but you're at least two posts late on this one.
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on March 12, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
I can't believe we're at Thursday and the match hasn't been either called off or declared it's being played behind closed doors. I certainly don't fancy going in all honesty. Just not sure why we'd even risk it spreading further than it already has. Anything that can possibly be done to stop it should be.
It'll be nothing more than a minor inconvenience if we all have to do without sport or social gatherings for a few weeks.
In fact fuck it, scrap the whole season and start again from scratch in August.
Post by: Risso on March 12, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
I'm guessing that although 3 Leicester players are displaying symptoms and have been put into isolation, Villa have no concerns because even though we played them on Monday, we didn't get anywhere near any of them.
Add that to the list of things that Pepe Reina didn't catch.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2020, 03:58:54 PM
It appears to be Perreira who is one of the Leicester players coming down with symptoms.
Poor sod's not having a great week, he did his anterior cruciate ligament after a tackle with Jack and is out for the season, missing the Euro's too.
Post by: aj2k77 on March 12, 2020, 04:07:38 PM
Behind closed doors bollocks and teams missing players through isolation makes a mockery of the divisions standings.
Post by: Goldie.7 on March 12, 2020, 04:17:22 PM
It appears to be Perreira who is one of the Leicester players coming down with symptoms.
Poor sod's not having a great week, he did his anterior cruciate ligament after a tackle with Jack and is out for the season, missing the Euro's too.
Euro 2021... here
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 04:24:05 PM
It appears to be Perreira who is one of the Leicester players coming down with symptoms.
Poor sod's not having a great week, he did his anterior cruciate ligament after a tackle with Jack and is out for the season, missing the Euro's too.
Euro 2021... herewe comewhoever survives.
Yes 2021 UEFA international Women's Championship is in England 10 venues though disappointed Villa isn't one !
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 04:37:08 PM
Even Coronavirus is biased against Villa!
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 04:37:51 PM
It appears to be Perreira who is one of the Leicester players coming down with symptoms.
Poor sod's not having a great week, he did his anterior cruciate ligament after a tackle with Jack and is out for the season, missing the Euro's too.
Euro 2021... herewe comewhoever survives.
Yes 2021 UEFA international Women's Championship is in England 10 venues though disappointed Villa isn't one !
It's disgusting that none of the venues are anywhere in The Midlands. Dickheads.
Post by: yammers on March 12, 2020, 04:38:47 PM
Just cancel the games for the rest of March for fucks sake.
Behind closed doors bollocks and teams missing players through isolation makes a mockery of the divisions standings.
Exactly this! Relegation rivals could have an advantage playing weakened teams through self isolation!
Post by: Big Ming on March 12, 2020, 04:48:07 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 12, 2020, 04:56:24 PM
yes you are the self appointed patronizing expert on this and other subjectS to the point of tediousness.No need. Some things get lost in tranlation and not everybody has a brilliant wit like you.
If you don’t get humor then surely it’s time for another flounce.
zelfs ik ben geen briljante mees zoals jij
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 12, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
I'm guessing that although 3 Leicester players are displaying symptoms and have been put into isolation, Villa have no concerns because even though we played them on Monday, we didn't get anywhere near any of them.
Ha ha ha, very good
Post by: Villan82 on March 12, 2020, 05:43:57 PM
Post by: CT on March 12, 2020, 05:50:31 PM
The guy to Boris' right said 95% of people will end up getting this virus, and it won't peak until June.
As insignificant as sport it at a time like this, it's very hard to see how football can carry on for quite some time.
Post by: usav on March 12, 2020, 05:54:48 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 12, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
Give me strength!
Post by: olaftab on March 12, 2020, 06:05:43 PM
I clearly not allowed my own view.Are you going to to self isolate again Vill?
And so what if someone is stupid of not .
I'll agree to disagree .
And just have a watching brief
Post by: frank black on March 12, 2020, 06:20:01 PM
So is Saturday's game still on, behind closed doors, postponed, or are those idiots in the Government waiting till tomorrow's death toll?
Give me strength!
Looks like it depends on the Leicester situation.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 12, 2020, 07:11:02 PM
So is Saturday's game still on, behind closed doors, postponed, or are those idiots in the Government waiting till tomorrow's death toll?
Give me strength!
So is Saturday's game still on, behind closed doors, postponed, or are those idiots in the Government waiting till tomorrow's death toll?
Give me strength!
Did you lose your voice in the COBRA meeting?
Post by: TheMalandro on March 12, 2020, 07:11:50 PM
So is Saturday's game still on, behind closed doors, postponed, or are those idiots in the Government waiting till tomorrow's death toll?
Give me strength!
Did you lose your voice in the COBRA meeting?
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 07:13:48 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
Post by: SaddVillan on March 12, 2020, 07:20:44 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on March 12, 2020, 07:22:09 PM
Cancel the season now - before things get any worse
Before we are bottom?
Post by: TheMalandro on March 12, 2020, 07:25:45 PM
One of the first signs that someone has the virus is they lose the ability to use the quote function correctly.
Give us a kiss.
Post by: Border villan on March 12, 2020, 07:33:56 PM
Post by: Brassneck on March 12, 2020, 07:35:43 PM
It's only a matter of time before football is suspended & I'm surprised people in positions to make decisions haven't made this official.
Yes, currently, playing behind closed doors is an option but in a months time, even that will be too risky.
Going down are we fcuk - The Villa's staying up.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 08:03:46 PM
One of the first signs that someone has the virus is they lose the ability to use the quote function correctly.
I think you overestimate my abilities in knowing the langauage fields in the first place !
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 08:05:30 PM
Post by: CT on March 12, 2020, 08:08:37 PM
I'm not going on Saturday - I've just made the decision.
It's only a matter of time before football is suspended & I'm surprised people in positions to make decisions haven't made this official.
Yes, currently, playing behind closed doors is an option but in a months time, even that will be too risky.
Going down are we fcuk - The Villa's staying up.
I'm going, only because I think it's the last game we'll see, possibly for the season. Last chance to see Jack wearing claret and blue.
Post by: brian green on March 12, 2020, 08:13:26 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 12, 2020, 08:25:41 PM
Post by: Villan82 on March 12, 2020, 08:30:58 PM
Post by: CT on March 12, 2020, 08:33:34 PM
Deleted. Posted in anger.
Don't look back in anger Brian.
Post by: Brassneck on March 12, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
I'm not going on Saturday - I've just made the decision.
It's only a matter of time before football is suspended & I'm surprised people in positions to make decisions haven't made this official.
Yes, currently, playing behind closed doors is an option but in a months time, even that will be too risky.
Going down are we fcuk - The Villa's staying up.
I'm going, only because I think it's the last game we'll see, possibly for the season. Last chance to see Jack wearing claret and blue.
I felt exactly the same until a couple of hours ago. Will be the first home game I've missed for quite a while (and certainly the first I've missed whist being in the country for a few years).
I'm quite looking forward to a session in front of the TV now - Getting soaked on the way out at Leicester has probably dampened my spirits as well.
Post by: Brassneck on March 12, 2020, 08:42:55 PM
Quote
The DFL and DFB are considering ending the Bundesliga season after this weekend, according to the Express. No trophy would be awarded and no relegation would take place. Instead, the Bundesliga would be expanded to 22 teams for 2020-21 with the top four teams from the second tier
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 12, 2020, 08:44:30 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2020, 08:46:49 PM
https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1238179887250386946I like this idea , but the so called big clubs will complain about too many games.QuoteThe DFL and DFB are considering ending the Bundesliga season after this weekend, according to the Express. No trophy would be awarded and no relegation would take place. Instead, the Bundesliga would be expanded to 22 teams for 2020-21 with the top four teams from the second tier
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 08:53:11 PM
I do think they should say that Liverpool are so far clear that they are awarded this year's title, if they do that. European places based on league as it is now with average points rather than total points so as not to disadvantage those that have a game in hand.
Post by: David_Nab on March 12, 2020, 08:54:25 PM
https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1238179887250386946QuoteThe DFL and DFB are considering ending the Bundesliga season after this weekend, according to the Express. No trophy would be awarded and no relegation would take place. Instead, the Bundesliga would be expanded to 22 teams for 2020-21 with the top four teams from the second tier
Big thumbs up for this idea ...
Post by: Brassneck on March 12, 2020, 08:56:59 PM
You could do that here, 24 teams. Either have a split after every team has played each other once or cancel the cups for the season... just finish off this season's FA Cup next year. That would only be a maximum of 49 domestic games for the FA Cup winner
I do think they should say that Liverpool are so far clear that they are awarded this year's title, if they do that. European places based on league as it is now with average points rather than total points so as not to disadvantage those that have a game in hand.
Yes - Only thing I'd probably say was that "game in hand" games played behind closed doors.
I'd probably keep the FA cup with PL teams getting byes until the 4th round.
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Watching the PM's announcement tonight, and subsequent upgrade in the status of the virus from Containment to Delay, not sure as to laugh or cry really, so limp wristed in there approach, so the reason they are not going to shut down schools, close sporting events and other such options at this point, is because they think people will get bored in time and we won't have even hit our peak at that point, so everybody will say **** it and go down the pub, seriously, we are talking about an apocalyptic event, for some of us, surely it works the other way, as the confirmed cases stack up as does the casualties/bodies, then the more polarised people will became, the only consideration now is to hit this thing with everything we've got, hit it hard and limit its damage as much as possible, people need leadership, at these times people need strong leaders, look at where other countries like Italy made there mistakes, didn't act fast enough, do the opposite and above all keep Aston Villa in the Premiership, whats up with you Johnson.
A right set of lungs on you.
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 12, 2020, 08:59:28 PM
https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1238179887250386946QuoteThe DFL and DFB are considering ending the Bundesliga season after this weekend, according to the Express. No trophy would be awarded and no relegation would take place. Instead, the Bundesliga would be expanded to 22 teams for 2020-21 with the top four teams from the second tier
Big thumbs up for this idea ...
The problem is the European football Association are suggesting that the European Championships will be postponed this summer and moved to next summer, 21, so any extension in games will hit players hard, you also have to take into consideration if that was to happen, the following season to that is the World Cup.
Post by: Dominic22 on March 12, 2020, 09:00:30 PM
It seems the rationale is that we will get bored and I'm afraid that's not good enough.
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 09:01:06 PM
https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1238179887250386946QuoteThe DFL and DFB are considering ending the Bundesliga season after this weekend, according to the Express. No trophy would be awarded and no relegation would take place. Instead, the Bundesliga would be expanded to 22 teams for 2020-21 with the top four teams from the second tier
Big thumbs up for this idea ...
Got to love the Germans. Great idea, that the Premier League should definitely 100% copy.
In fact I'd take the Scousers being crowned if it meant we stayed up. Even the Stripey Filth coming up too.
Post by: phantom limb on March 12, 2020, 09:04:17 PM
Apparently the championship games are still going ahead this weekend, I think that would be a mistake.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 12, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Postpone all games imo.
Apparently the championship games are still going ahead this weekend, I think that would be a mistake.
I think it's basically be allowed by the government so football events won't close down any games and then following on for next few weeks have them behind closed doors. They when more get ill they lock it down .
Should close it now but government weak ass response in delay means be left for worse to come.
They are engineering a peak unbelievable
Post by: David_Nab on March 12, 2020, 09:36:57 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 09:44:35 PM
Quote
Following the latest update from Government issued this afternoon, all Premier League matches will go ahead as scheduled this weekend.
While the Prime Minister advised that all sporting events should take place as normal for now, he also indicated that Government is considering banning major public events, like sporting fixtures.
We are therefore continuing to work closely with our clubs, Government, The FA, EFL and other relevant stakeholders to ensure appropriate contingency plans are in place as and when circumstances change.
The welfare of players, staff and supporters is of paramount importance and we will continue to follow Public Health England guidelines thoroughly.
We will keep everyone updated as appropriate.
Post by: kieron on March 12, 2020, 09:49:17 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 09:50:09 PM
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Post by: BC Villain on March 12, 2020, 09:53:11 PM
QuoteFollowing the latest update from Government issued this afternoon, all Premier League matches will go ahead as scheduled this weekend.
While the Prime Minister advised that all sporting events should take place as normal for now, he also indicated that Government is considering banning major public events, like sporting fixtures.
We are therefore continuing to work closely with our clubs, Government, The FA, EFL and other relevant stakeholders to ensure appropriate contingency plans are in place as and when circumstances change.
The welfare of players, staff and supporters is of paramount importance and we will continue to follow Public Health England guidelines thoroughly.
We will keep everyone updated as appropriate.
If ever a statement told us about the mentality of the Premier League, then this is it. Only interested in the business and their wallets. Fuck the fans
Post by: andyh on March 12, 2020, 09:54:03 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 10:05:53 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 12, 2020, 10:07:43 PM
Post by: phantom limb on March 12, 2020, 10:15:50 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on March 12, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
Following the latest update from Government issued this afternoon, all Premier League matches will go ahead as scheduled this weekend.
We will keep everyone updated as appropriate.
I just have a sneaky feeling they'll change their tune tomorrow.
Post by: BC Villain on March 12, 2020, 10:23:48 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
Post by: luke95 on March 12, 2020, 10:31:06 PM
Following the latest update from Government issued this afternoon, all Premier League matches will go ahead as scheduled this weekend.
We will keep everyone updated as appropriate.
I just have a sneaky feeling they'll change their tune tomorrow.
Same here , itll be reversed by 1 oclock
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 12, 2020, 10:31:32 PM
Whoops! Double post.So is Saturday's game still on, behind closed doors, postponed, or are those idiots in the Government waiting till tomorrow's death toll?
Give me strength!So is Saturday's game still on, behind closed doors, postponed, or are those idiots in the Government waiting till tomorrow's death toll?
Give me strength!
Did you lose your voice in the COBRA meeting?
It needed repeating for those idiots though.
As I said in a previous post, they want to keep in with Rupert Murdoch!
Post by: BC Villain on March 12, 2020, 10:32:31 PM
Surely the Arsenal game can't go ahead?
Absolute lunacy from the Premier League. Wealth over health.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 12, 2020, 10:42:13 PM
Post by: Villan82 on March 12, 2020, 10:43:27 PM
Just heard on radio. Emergency meeting of Premier League tomorrow morning.
Arteta is a game changer. They MUST suspend the season. Simple as.
Post by: Des Little on March 12, 2020, 10:54:37 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 11:07:38 PM
Void the league!
Void the league!
Post by: Flin5tone on March 12, 2020, 11:09:20 PM
The whole handling of this is a bloody Disgrace
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 12, 2020, 11:09:27 PM
Post by: john e on March 12, 2020, 11:10:03 PM
revert to alphabetical order
Champions league here we come
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 11:10:03 PM
Presume we can count on all of Manchester and at least one half of the Liverpool's support.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 11:10:10 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 12, 2020, 11:11:29 PM
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 11:13:26 PM
The fairest thing would be to award every club 3 points for all their remaining games.
This.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 12, 2020, 11:14:29 PM
Genius.The fairest thing would be to award every club 3 points for all their remaining games.
This.
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 11:15:10 PM
Mendy from Man City self isolating as well. It’s probs hard to avoid getting this, but standing with my kids and 40,000 others seems a bit irresponsible. I’ll give it a miss, especially as only reason it will still go ahead is greed on behalf premier league and Tory Govt wheighing up economic cost vrs old people dying
It's the 20 or so people sat around you and anybody who coughs or sneezes all over you en route to your seat. If you're sat in the upper Holte, you haven't got much to worry about from the majority of the ground or even the block over.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 12, 2020, 11:16:11 PM
abort, scrap, cancelAnd we'll keep Jack!
revert to alphabetical order
Champions league here we come
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2020, 11:16:31 PM
Genius.The fairest thing would be to award every club 3 points for all their remaining games.
This.
I disagree. That would mean there are too many points so they should just call every match a home win.
Post by: Gareth on March 12, 2020, 11:16:35 PM
Suspect we will see how effective a CEO Purslow is now as we need to be right in the mix of the discussions of what happens from here, particularly if it comes to a point where season becomes voided or where a decision needs to be made regarding resuming fixtures.
Post by: Goldie.7 on March 12, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Genius.The fairest thing would be to award every club 3 points for all their remaining games.This.
It took a second.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 12, 2020, 11:21:52 PM
I think it would be negligent to continue sporting events right now. And gross negligence to allow them to continue with spectators.
Can absolutely see games being played behind closed doors for the rest of the season. Surely can be handled within clubs, with players being regularly monitored by club doctors etc.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 12, 2020, 11:23:31 PM
Post by: Billy Walker on March 12, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
I think it would be negligent to continue sporting events right now. And gross negligence to allow them to continue with spectators.
Can absolutely see games being played behind closed doors for the rest of the season. Surely can be handled within clubs, with players being regularly monitored by club doctors etc.
I don't think the players and their families will be supportive of this at all.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 11:25:41 PM
I think it would be negligent to continue sporting events right now. And gross negligence to allow them to continue with spectators.
Can absolutely see games being played behind closed doors for the rest of the season. Surely can be handled within clubs, with players being regularly monitored by club doctors etc.
PL clubs get enough money they could cope with that financially, especially if they gave leeway with FFP because of the drop in revenue. But how far down the pyrmid do you go, the further down you go the more the clubs rely on match day money.
The more I think of the more it seems impossible to come up with a solution that isn't stiffing some clubs.
Post by: Dominic22 on March 12, 2020, 11:28:00 PM
The Virus is not constant so different people and different clubs will be ill at different times and at different rates so even when the squad is clear they need to train to get match fit then find a team to play that is not in isolation or squad members at risk etc.... All things being equal there is the Euro's in June and the regular season was not meant to finish until May
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 11:28:20 PM
Post by: eamonn on March 12, 2020, 11:29:54 PM
Post by: Des Little on March 12, 2020, 11:30:40 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 11:31:34 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 11:36:19 PM
Quote
Our London Colney training centre has been closed after head coach Mikel Arteta received a positive COVID-19 result this evening.
Arsenal personnel who had recent close contact with Mikel will now self-isolate in line with Government health guidelines. We expect this to be a significant number of people from Colney, including the full first-team squad and coaching staff, as well as a smaller number of people from our Hale End Academy which we have also temporarily closed as a precaution.
We expect those who did not have close contact with Mikel to return to work in the coming days. In the meantime our Colney and Hale End training centres will undergo a deep clean and our other club sites are operating as normal.
Managing director Vinai Venkatesham said: “The health of our people and the wider public is our priority and that is where our focus is. Our thoughts are with Mikel who is disappointed but in good spirits. We are in active dialogue with all the relevant people to manage this situation appropriately, and we look forward to getting back to training and playing as soon as medical advice allows.”
Head of football Raul Sanllehi added: “Mikel and the full first-team squad, players and staff, will be fully supported, and we look forward to getting back to training and playing as soon as medical advice allows. Obviously Mikel’s full recovery is the priority now for us all.”
We will work with Public Health England on the next steps in regard to our facilities and staff, and with the Premier League, Football Association and relevant clubs around our forthcoming matches in the Premier League and Emirates FA Cup.
It is clear we will not be able to play some fixtures on their currently scheduled dates. We will update supporters who have tickets for forthcoming games with more information as soon as possible.
We are now working to trace any other people who have had recent close contact with Mikel. We will let them know what has happened and they should follow the NHS guidance which is likely to recommend self-isolation.
Mikel said: “This is really disappointing but I took the test after feeling poorly. I will be at work as soon as I’m allowed.”
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 11:41:47 PM
Post by: Villan82 on March 12, 2020, 11:47:09 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 11:51:31 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 12, 2020, 11:55:13 PM
Post by: Ads on March 12, 2020, 11:55:14 PM
If you don't relegate teams then I don't see how you can promote teams.
This.
Fuck the Albion.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2020, 11:57:21 PM
Just have a bigger league next year. No teams were relegated in 1891 but two teams were still added to the league.
And who do you promote, and on what basis? And why would you promote them but not relegate teams using the same basis used to promote teams?
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 12, 2020, 11:57:48 PM
Mendy from Man City self isolating as well. It’s probs hard to avoid getting this, but standing with my kids and 40,000 others seems a bit irresponsible. I’ll give it a miss, especially as only reason it will still go ahead is greed on behalf premier league and Tory Govt wheighing up economic cost vrs old people dying
It's the 20 or so people sat around you and anybody who coughs or sneezes all over you en route to your seat. If you're sat in the upper Holte, you haven't got much to worry about from the majority of the ground or even the block over.
I’m in lower holte, but yea I was over egging the pudding tbh. Still as I drive to work, VP is probs where I’m in contact with more people at once other than the pub. If we were on the 10 game winning streak I might be less risk averse 😬
Post by: Villan82 on March 12, 2020, 11:58:17 PM
If you don't relegate teams then I don't see how you can promote teams.
This.
Fuck the Albion.
The most important thing is that they don't relegate us. We have a strong case.
Post by: Des Little on March 12, 2020, 11:59:43 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:00:08 AM
Just have a bigger league next year. No teams were relegated in 1891 but two teams were still added to the league.
And who do you promote, and on what basis? And why would you promote them but not relegate teams using the same basis used to promote teams?
Because relegated teams will sue you. Promoted teams are unlikely to sue you so they can go back in the Championship again. Also, Villa Ladies deserve promotion.
There are a few precedents of countries expanding leagues for a season or two in exceptional circumstances.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:01:36 AM
Just have a bigger league next year. No teams were relegated in 1891 but two teams were still added to the league.
And who do you promote, and on what basis? And why would you promote them but not relegate teams using the same basis used to promote teams?
Because relegated teams will sue you. Promoted teams are unlikely to sue you so they can go back in the Championship again. Also, Villa Ladies deserve promotion.
And the teams that aren't promoted and are in or around the playoffs are just going to accept it?
Post by: adrenachrome on March 13, 2020, 12:04:56 AM
Quote
Henry Winter@henrywinter
Brighton v Arsenal inevitably postponed following the Arteta development. Premier League now has to suspend league and EFL follow suit. If Euro 2020 postponed to 2021, to be discussed by Uefa on Tuesday, frees space to complete leagues and European club season (if safe).
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:05:01 AM
Tbh, I don't see the virus going anywhere soon and I think the best thing, from a sporting perspective, would be to cancel everything until next March then just pick up where we left off. From a financial perspective, though, that would de disastrous for countless clubs. Still, Shankly jokes aside, people's health is far more important than football.
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2020, 12:09:14 AM
Just have a bigger league next year. No teams were relegated in 1891 but two teams were still added to the league.
And who do you promote, and on what basis? And why would you promote them but not relegate teams using the same basis used to promote teams?
Because relegated teams will sue you. Promoted teams are unlikely to sue you so they can go back in the Championship again. Also, Villa Ladies deserve promotion.
There are a few precedents of countries expanding leagues for a season or two in exceptional circumstances.
I'm old enough to remember the league going from 22 to 20 clubs in 1995!
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:10:58 AM
Just have a bigger league next year. No teams were relegated in 1891 but two teams were still added to the league.
And who do you promote, and on what basis? And why would you promote them but not relegate teams using the same basis used to promote teams?
Because relegated teams will sue you. Promoted teams are unlikely to sue you so they can go back in the Championship again. Also, Villa Ladies deserve promotion.
There are a few precedents of countries expanding leagues for a season or two in exceptional circumstances.
I'm old enough to remember the league going from 22 to 20 clubs in 1995!
Only four years after it going from 20 to 22!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:12:47 AM
And if we promote from the second division then third division clubs will be wanting to know why they aren't promoted, and so on all the way down the entire footballing pyramid. If we promote from every division then every division will have weird numbers of teams.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:15:05 AM
Of course they can, it's exactly the same thing you'd be saying we should sue about if we were relegated. And even if they didn't, which they would, we promote 3 teams and don't relegate. We now have a top flight of 23 teams and a second tier with 21 clubs. Now what?
And if we promote from the second division then third division clubs will be wanting to know why they aren't promoted, and so on all the way down the entire footballing pyramid. If we promote from every division then every division will have weird numbers of teams.
Every league will have weird numbers of teams for one season, then you arrange next year's promotion and relegation in such a way that it goes back to normal. So, in a 23 team league, the bottom six would be relegated, for instance.
I'd have a 26 team league by preference, though. If we had to do it that way. Let all the top six up.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:15:42 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:18:34 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:19:48 AM
What is your alternative, btw?
Post by: Villa75 on March 13, 2020, 12:22:56 AM
I probably mingle/interact with more people in the pubs/shops, over a couple of hours, than I do attending a game.
No one seems to be suggesting people stop going to pubs/clubs, shops, restaurants, etc. Until they do, I'll be attending every match I can.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:24:14 AM
I have moved on from thinking that behind closed doors is any kind of solution, though. Still too much of a risk.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:25:26 AM
They can complain but they won't win. You can't sue someone for being kicked out of something you weren't a member of in the first place.
What is your alternative, btw?
You still haven't said how the league goes back to normal after 1 season, how do you go from 23 or 26 back to 20 in one go? And so on down an entire footballing pyramid.
If this happened at the same time last season we'd still be a second division club as we were 8th after 37 games. There will be so many clubs kicking up a stink, and rightly so. You'd be complaining like fuck if we were stiffed last season, as would all of us.
And i've already said
The more I think of the more it seems impossible to come up with a solution that isn't stiffing some clubs.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:26:47 AM
Though I've said my preferred solution is just starting again next March.
The idea that we can get everything sorted this summer is fantasy. The virus will get far worse before it gets better.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:31:19 AM
Relegate nine teams. Easy.
Though I've said my preferred solution is just starting again next March.
The idea that we can get everything sorted this summer is fantasy. The virus will get far worse before it gets better.
No way are they relegating 9 clubs.
If that happens there won't be much of a football league left as most will have gone to the wall.
I agree it could get bad.
Post by: Goldie.7 on March 13, 2020, 12:35:19 AM
The only feasible option would be to resume the current PL and EFL campaigns some time in the near future.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:36:35 AM
(I'm not doing my bit to dispel the Villa historian stereotype here, admittedly).
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:37:28 AM
The announcement tomorrow will be the season is suspended until further notice.
The only feasible option would be to resume the current PL and EFL campaigns some time in the near future.
If by the "near future" you mean at the very least five to six months from now, then maybe.
Post by: Goldie.7 on March 13, 2020, 12:37:35 AM
I'm going Saturday.
I don't know where you're going but it won't be inside Villa Park.
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2020, 12:38:48 AM
The Third Division relegated 24 clubs in 1958...
(I'm not doing my bit to dispel the Villa historian stereotype here, admittedly).
Quiz quesion - which Villa player played in five divisions?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:41:37 AM
If we have to wait a year to restart then we'll be lucky if 24 FL clubs survive, although if things are bad enough that there's a year of no football then I doubt anyone will give much of a shite about any club.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:41:56 AM
I don't think I know this. Guess at Jim Dugdale but only because he's the first fifties footballer I thought of.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 12:47:22 AM
It is the PL's gift to decide who becomes members surely? There is probably an agreement between the 2 leagues that 3 teams from each swap places at the end of each season. However, if the season doesn't finish, would the PL be obliged to accept 3 teams?
It could be that the PL set the precedent and it has a domino effect throughout the EFL leagues. For example, if the PL were to refuse entry to 3 teams, would the EFL then cancel all of their promotions and relegations?
Could the PL accept just 2 teams this season and relegate 4 the following season? In that scenario, teams like Fulham & Brentford would miss out on the opportunity to compete for second place and also compete in the play offs.
These are exceptional circumstances and will no doubt require exceptional measures. Any disputes are likely to go to arbitration rather than civil claims.
Whatever decision is finally agreed on, somebody is going to be left upset. A lot will depend on wording within the PL rules and if they have a contingency for exceptional circumstances - Also, whether the 2 bodies have a good relationship with each other or whether it's strained. I can't imagine the EFL being overly keen on the FA but modern times may have bought them closer together.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:47:38 AM
Post by: Louzie0 on March 13, 2020, 12:48:16 AM
(Answering Dave!)
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:51:14 AM
Anyone know how much money the Premier League has in the bank? Could they afford to bail out the lower leagues and, if so, for how long? Is there also a chance that Sky and BT could be in financial bother if there is no live sport for months on end or are they so rich that they would be fine?
Not a clue on the PL but I read recently that the IOC has a reserve kitty of something like £700m!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:53:02 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:53:35 AM
If any of us are left alive to watch them.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 13, 2020, 12:55:15 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:56:35 AM
Is that just to compensate Tokyo if it gets cancelled? I read somewhere that the Olympics can't be postponed, as it has to stick to the four year Olympiads. Shame, because next year with men's and women's Euros plus the Olympics would be ace if they all get postponed.
If any of us are left alive to watch them.
The IOC pay something like £25m in insurance to insure the £800m (I think it was) they invest in the games.
I know they are a bit screwed delaying the Olympics as they sold all the Olympic village as housing and the dates for everyone to move in are just after the paralympics end.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 12:56:49 AM
A number of club officials disagree with the Premier League’s decision to persist with a normal season, with a small minority even feeling the campaign should be voided, as football was thrown into further disarray by the coronavirus crisis on Thursday evening.
Arsenal announced that head coach Mikel Arteta had tested positive a mere 45 minutes after the competition had announced the fixtures would continue as normal.
The announcement from the Gunners raises questions about communication and casts doubt on the controversial plans.
The developments have seen the Premier League call for an emergency meeting on Friday morning, to discuss the rest of the season. And there is an increasing feeling that the league will be suspended for a month.
The Independent has been told that some clubs will push for a suspension and that there is a minority of officials who will argue that the campaign should be voided.
Regardless of any individual feelings, however, the logistical nightmare caused by Arteta’s unfortunate situation could make much of that immaterial.
Arsenal’s match against Brighton and Hove Albion this weekend will have to be called off as the squad goes into quarantine, and the club has admitted they may struggle to fulfil fixtures.
The Premier League had previously taken their lead from the government, which had been adamant that closing stadiums was reactionary, and not actually that beneficial.
That stance has been undercut by participating figures like Arteta actually contracting the virus, as it illustrates a host of other problems beyond the actual benefit of shutting down mass gatherings like football matches.
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2020, 12:58:32 AM
Somebody who came from non league, or went abroad, like David Platt?
(Answering Dave!)
All in the Football League and all for one club.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 12:59:50 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 01:00:07 AM
Somebody who came from non league, or went abroad, like David Platt?
(Answering Dave!)
All in the Football League and all for one club.
Someone we signed but never played a first team game for us?
Post by: Villa75 on March 13, 2020, 01:01:00 AM
Is that just to compensate Tokyo if it gets cancelled? I read somewhere that the Olympics can't be postponed, as it has to stick to the four year Olympiads. Shame, because next year with men's and women's Euros plus the Olympics would be ace if they all get postponed.
If any of us are left alive to watch them.
I know you're probably joking but, for those you might have scared, the mortality rate is incredibly low. Particularly if you are under 80 with no major health complications.
Football will survive, as well as billions of people currently walking the earth.
Post by: Louzie0 on March 13, 2020, 01:01:12 AM
I don't think he ever played non-league. Given that DW replied to me banging on about 1958, I assume he's after someone that played in (the old) Divisions One, Two, Three (North), Three (South) and Four.
Ah, just realised how it reads.
I was thinking of 2 possible ways that a player could have been in 5 Divisions, but couldn’t think of someone who’d started in non-league! I knew Platt had come from Crewe though, and thought they might have been D4 at the time.
Forgot there were North and South Divisions in the olden days.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 01:01:22 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 01:04:15 AM
Post by: Louzie0 on March 13, 2020, 01:05:58 AM
Somebody who came from non league, or went abroad, like David Platt?
(Answering Dave!)
All in the Football League and all for one club.
Did someone play for us twice, getting promoted each time?!
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 01:06:08 AM
Post by: Flin5tone on March 13, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Last week I thought nothing of the Virus to be honest and thought it would all soon go away but this is going to cause so many Global problems,I don't think life will be the same again for a long time
This could finally burst the bubble of Football and the money in it! The money in it and players wages have got out of control. This could be the end !
Post by: Villa75 on March 13, 2020, 01:09:35 AM
Mortality rate is about 6% in Italy. (Though I don't really think everyone will be dead). I read an article that says Italy doesn't have enough respirators in hospitals to meet demand, and anyone sixty or over is deemed not a priority. Pretty scary stuff.
And an average death age of 81.
The mortality rate across the world is estimated to be about 1%. Even less if you're under 80 with decent health.
As I said. Football, along with billions of people will survive.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 01:10:55 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 01:14:15 AM
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 01:15:05 AM
Mortality rate is about 6% in Italy. (Though I don't really think everyone will be dead). I read an article that says Italy doesn't have enough respirators in hospitals to meet demand, and anyone sixty or over is deemed not a priority. Pretty scary stuff.
And an average death age of 81.
The mortality rate across the world is estimated to be about 1%. Even less if you're under 80 with decent health.
As I said. Football, along with billions of people will survive.
There are credible reports that countries like China and Iran have not divulged the true extent of the epidemic.
Post by: Gareth on March 13, 2020, 01:16:00 AM
Voiding is a complete nightmare, impossible to award a title, decide European places, decide relegation or decide promotion when you started a competition with criteria for all those to take place but the competition is based upon everyone playing everyone twice. For instance in Championship the teams 3rd to 10th could argue that Leeds & West Brom blew up last year so there’s a viable possibility that they do the same again
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 01:17:16 AM
If the season was suspended for more than a couple of months I can’t see how they could complete it because you will have contracts ending, some players have already signed for new clubs as of July 1st etc.
Voiding is a complete nightmare, impossible to award a title, decide European places, decide relegation or decide promotion when you started a competition with criteria for all those to take place but the competition is based upon everyone playing everyone twice. For instance in Championship the teams 3rd to 10th could argue that Leeds & West Brom blew up last year so there’s a viable possibility that they do the same again
As i've said, we were 8th last season after 37 games, after 29 games in 2016 Leicester were worse than Norwich.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 01:17:40 AM
If the season was suspended for more than a couple of months I can’t see how they could complete it because you will have contracts ending, some players have already signed for new clubs as of July 1st etc.
Voiding is a complete nightmare, impossible to award a title, decide European places, decide relegation or decide promotion when you started a competition with criteria for all those to take place but the competition is based upon everyone playing everyone twice. For instance in Championship the teams 3rd to 10th could argue that Leeds & West Brom blew up last year so there’s a viable possibility that they do the same again
Also, what would you do about the summer transfer window and of course preparing for the following season?
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2020, 01:24:26 AM
Spanish flu did 50-100m and that was before the days of global travel. It's unlikely this will be as bad but if sport is shut down for a year, it's going to be fucking bad. And not because there's no sport.
Spanish flu also afflicted people in their prime very badly. The immune response was so strong that people drowned in their own phlegm. They keep saying it's only people over 60 who should worry this time but I'm not so sure.
This is still an unknown virus, who's to say we won't eventually have sad cases of healthy people succumbing due to immune system response
Post by: Flin5tone on March 13, 2020, 01:28:53 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 01:30:09 AM
Post by: shipscat on March 13, 2020, 01:42:07 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 01:42:13 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on March 13, 2020, 03:08:33 AM
Mortality rate is about 6% in Italy. (Though I don't really think everyone will be dead). I read an article that says Italy doesn't have enough respirators in hospitals to meet demand, and anyone sixty or over is deemed not a priority. Pretty scary stuff.
And an average death age of 81.
The mortality rate across the world is estimated to be about 1%. Even less if you're under 80 with decent health.
As I said. Football, along with billions of people will survive.
There are credible reports that countries like China and Iran have not divulged the true extent of the epidemic.
I'd add Japan to that list, also.
The government is completely obsessed with the Olympics, and people are wondering if they're withholding the true data regarding deaths.
Who knows.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2020, 03:19:59 AM
Which is why they are most likely to make this season nul and void.
The only other possibility is to suspend the season and restart again when possible, but as pointed out that is far from simple and would probably mean tagging this season onto the beginning of the next season.
The Football calander will have to be rewritten but that now goes for so much of Life .
Post by: ROBBO on March 13, 2020, 04:22:44 AM
Post by: frank black on March 13, 2020, 05:56:22 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 13, 2020, 06:18:08 AM
Post by: ROBBO on March 13, 2020, 06:22:21 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 13, 2020, 06:24:17 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 06:33:10 AM
Suspension for at least this weekend will happen. Then UEFA meet on Tuesday and they will decide a larger suspension of leagues and Euro 20.
We will then see further suspension until this has gone. I do wonder if anything will happen for quite some time. We may not even see next season either.
Post by: mr-villa on March 13, 2020, 06:44:01 AM
Post by: sid1964 on March 13, 2020, 06:45:33 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 13, 2020, 06:49:49 AM
Post by: brian green on March 13, 2020, 06:59:57 AM
Post by: AV82EC on March 13, 2020, 07:01:11 AM
Post by: algy on March 13, 2020, 07:05:46 AM
I'd be inclined to think:
- it won't be feasible to hold the Champs League etc next season as few, if any, leagues will complete
- promotion/relegation will be almost impossible for the same reason
- there's no danger of a full season before 2021/22
I'm reckoning they'll suspend this season, not to be resumed.
Possibly a sensible option, given 2020/21 season will be short, is to have one season only "playoff" divisions of 10/12/14, based on current League positions, everyone starting at 0pts. Individual size decided by who's in the running this season, e.g. you'd probably want one containing everyone from maybe 14th in the PL to 6th in the Championship.
Absolutely no way the Olympics are happening. If they *have* to be on a 4 yearly cycle, they'll be cancelled and Tokyo given the next available one (2028?)
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2020, 07:08:53 AM
Post by: sid1964 on March 13, 2020, 07:10:22 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 13, 2020, 07:25:30 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 13, 2020, 07:26:21 AM
Depends whether this time next year you can look at full house at Villa Park and know that as many as five per cent of that number had died since March 2020. Us old and ailing buggers are Villa fans too.
As I said, on a purely footballing side.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 07:26:38 AM
At least Klopp can stop moaning now about a congested fixture list.
Bet he wishes they'd squeezed a couple more in over Xmas now.
Post by: OzVilla on March 13, 2020, 07:28:38 AM
Not really, there’s more important stuff than football.
Yes but that thread is going on in Off Topic. This one is about how it’s impacting on the Villa.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 07:30:03 AM
Depends whether this time next year you can look at full house at Villa Park and know that as many as five per cent of that number had died since March 2020. Us old and ailing buggers are Villa fans too.
As I said, on a purely footballing side.
I'm absolutely delighted - I can't hide or control emotions.
That doesn't mean that I'm not aware or considering the consequences.
Post by: aev on March 13, 2020, 07:35:14 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 13, 2020, 07:46:46 AM
Post by: brian green on March 13, 2020, 08:00:12 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 13, 2020, 08:11:56 AM
We, the fans, especially those who actually attend games, are as much part of football as the players and the coaches. Whether we actually live or die impacts directly on the game.
Well can you sort out our defending on set pieces then please.
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 13, 2020, 08:17:55 AM
yes you are the self appointed patronizing expert on this and other subjectS to the point of tediousness.No need. Some things get lost in tranlation and not everybody has a brilliant wit like you.
If you don’t get humor then surely it’s time for another flounce.
zelfs ik ben geen briljante mees zoals jij
larf
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 13, 2020, 08:28:43 AM
We, the fans, especially those who actually attend games, are as much part of football as the players and the coaches. Whether we actually live or die impacts directly on the game.
Well can you sort out our defending on set pieces then please.
If any of our defenders got it, there would be no need for the rest of them to self isolate, as they always make a point of leaving several metres of space between them.
Post by: Mister E on March 13, 2020, 08:33:09 AM
If clubs are not allowed to play until January 2021 then - most clubs will be bankrupt and all the players will be on the dole - there is no way a club can keep giving a footballer £100k a week and not get any income.The current thinking appears to be that the Euros will get pushed back into 2021 and the domestic leagues will be extended into the summer, to get them completed.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 08:35:41 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
On a purely footballing side, is it wrong to feel slightly relieved by all this?
Taken in isolation, on the purely football side, I'm planning a party* for
•Us staying up
•'The Mighty Reds YNWA' not winning the league
•Leeds not coming up
•Stripeyfilth not coming up
*due to social distancing recommendations, none of you are invited.
Post by: john e on March 13, 2020, 08:47:18 AM
On a purely footballing side, is it wrong to feel slightly relieved by all this?
Taken in isolation, on the purely football side, I'm planning a party* for
•Us staying up
•'The Mighty Reds YNWA' not winning the league
•Leeds not coming up
•Stripeyfilth not coming up
*due to social distancing recommendations, none of you are invited.
Bring a bott.......hand sanitiser
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 08:58:20 AM
Post by: andyh on March 13, 2020, 08:59:52 AM
Shutdown football from now until May and then resume when things settle down.
That gives us plenty of time to replace Smith and for his replacement to sort out our squad for those remaining games.
Job done !
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 13, 2020, 09:00:15 AM
Top four as it stands into Europe, no relegation, top two in their championship come up, next season two more clubs than usual get relegated.
Sounds good to me.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 09:02:10 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 13, 2020, 09:02:27 AM
Apparently the bundesliga plan is to end the season now.
Top four as it stands into Europe, no relegation, top two in their championship come up, next season two more clubs than usual get relegated.
Sounds good to me.
I like that plan
Post by: tomd2103 on March 13, 2020, 09:07:12 AM
Given the news about the Chelsea player, can't see any way our game will go ahead tomorrow now.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 09:20:05 AM
Watford and Norwich off for starters. Just call the whole thing off.
Post by: ROBBO on March 13, 2020, 09:23:40 AM
Depends whether this time next year you can look at full house at Villa Park and know that as many as five per cent of that number had died since March 2020. Us old and ailing buggers are Villa fans too.
Brian we are of the same vintage, I have two Grandkids living next door and two more round the corner all of whom we have pick up and looking after responsibilities, I told my son next door I hope you have a plan b, they won't know what's hit them.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 13, 2020, 09:26:07 AM
Apparently the bundesliga plan is to end the season now.
Top four as it stands into Europe, no relegation, top two in their championship come up, next season two more clubs than usual get relegated.
Sounds good to me.
That sounds reasonable, although I would probably simplify things a bit by not allowing the Albion to come up. On grounds I haven't yet thought about too deeply yet.
Post by: walsall villain on March 13, 2020, 09:26:47 AM
You lose count of the illnesses you pick up from your grandchildren. That’s the route of the virus I fear most.Depends whether this time next year you can look at full house at Villa Park and know that as many as five per cent of that number had died since March 2020. Us old and ailing buggers are Villa fans too.
Brian we are of the same vintage, I have two Grandkids living next door and two more round the corner all of whom we have pick up and looking after responsibilities, I told my son next door I hope you have a plan b, they won't know what's hit them.
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 13, 2020, 09:34:48 AM
Apparently the bundesliga plan is to end the season now.
Top four as it stands into Europe, no relegation, top two in their championship come up, next season two more clubs than usual get relegated.
Sounds good to me.
That sounds reasonable, although I would probably simplify things a bit by not allowing the Albion to come up. On grounds I haven't yet thought about too deeply yet.
Cleanliness.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 13, 2020, 09:37:52 AM
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 09:40:39 AM
I had no idea how quickly that would happen.
The only issue now is how the season will be would up. And even that is trivial in the face of senior citizens dying in large numbers.
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 09:42:10 AM
If the Euro's get postponed until 2021 (which is heavily mooted), then they could extend the domestic season into the summer.Medical experts saying 3-4 months before peak.
Shutdown football from now until May and then resume when things settle down.
That gives us plenty of time to replace Smith and for his replacement to sort out our squad for those remaining games.
Job done !
Post by: qwerty on March 13, 2020, 09:43:56 AM
It’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good and Villa are likely to be one of the main beneficiaries of the Covid-19 outbreak.
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2020, 09:51:22 AM
On a purely footballing side, is it wrong to feel slightly relieved by all this?
NO! The last 24 hours has been quite a relief as a villa fan!
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2020, 09:54:37 AM
>1000 I wager.
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 09:56:54 AM
How many times is the word spwany going to be used on Small Heath Alliance in the next few weeks?Sun shines on the righteous just as surely as shit falls on the Noses!
>1000 I wager.
Post by: Villafirst on March 13, 2020, 10:01:45 AM
A few days ago, I came on here and said that the problem will be if the virus gets into the playing squads.
I had no idea how quickly that would happen.
The only issue now is how the season will be would up. And even that is trivial in the face of senior citizens dying in large numbers.
Yes, and this is only in the early stages of the virus. What on earth will it be like in the escalation and peak stages?
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 10:01:53 AM
Yes just heard on 5 live that Celsea's entire fist team squad are now self isolating as Callum Hudson-Odoi has tested +ve.
Fist self isolating... A private wank.
Post by: Pete3206 on March 13, 2020, 10:03:47 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 10:06:14 AM
Leeds promotion hopes dashed again?
I really, really hope so.
Post by: OzVilla on March 13, 2020, 10:07:55 AM
Leeds promotion hopes dashed again?
I really, really hope so.
They’re not taking it well on Twitter.
Post by: aev on March 13, 2020, 10:09:33 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 13, 2020, 10:10:36 AM
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 10:14:35 AM
Reckon a 4 week suspension and then they play games after that.
I repeat. Peak infection rate is not expected to be for 3 - 4 months.
Post by: aev on March 13, 2020, 10:15:35 AM
Reckon a 4 week suspension and then they play games after that.
I repeat. Peak infection rate is not expected to be for 3 - 4 months.
This is what I think they will announce today.
Post by: DrGonzo on March 13, 2020, 10:16:40 AM
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2020, 10:19:15 AM
Can you imagine... I hardly want to even type this but the thought has occurred to me now so you can all share in my fear... that, well, what if... WHAT IF.... the season is cancelled but we are forced to start next season with the same squad because the season is considered reset? There are asked it? What a horrible thought!! I could hardly sleep last night for imagining the horrors of another 38 games like Monday's *little vomity face thingy*...
A lot of our problems this year were down to inexperience and naivety. I think Douglas Luiz, Nakamba, Fred, Samatta, AEG and, dare I say it, even the current management team, will be better over a full season for what they have experienced so far. For a start, we would surely be better at grinding out the odd crucial point?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 13, 2020, 10:19:48 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
Post by: DrGonzo on March 13, 2020, 10:21:06 AM
Can you imagine... I hardly want to even type this but the thought has occurred to me now so you can all share in my fear... that, well, what if... WHAT IF.... the season is cancelled but we are forced to start next season with the same squad because the season is considered reset? There I asked it... What a horrible thought!! I could hardly sleep last night for imagining the horrors of another 38 games like Monday's *little vomity face thingy*...
A lot of our problems this year were down to inexperience and naivety. I think Douglas Luiz, Nakamba, Fred, Samatta, AEG and, dare I say it, even the current management team, will be better over a full season for what they have experienced so far. For a start, we would surely be better at grinding out the odd crucial point?
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2020, 10:22:16 AM
The Third Division relegated 24 clubs in 1958...
(I'm not doing my bit to dispel the Villa historian stereotype here, admittedly).
Quiz quesion - which Villa player played in five divisions?
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 10:23:16 AM
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 10:26:41 AM
With my cynical hat on, I think the PL, on behalf of their global media partners, will be desperate to plough on long enough for 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' to get these two wins they need.More importantly, not give Sky a refund.
Post by: Nelson Lodge on March 13, 2020, 10:28:09 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51870540
Post by: darren woolley on March 13, 2020, 10:32:16 AM
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2020, 10:33:35 AM
Post by: darren woolley on March 13, 2020, 10:37:01 AM
I doubt they'll void it today. Likely pospotend for a month of six weeks and revisited.
Seem's the best idea postpone the game's play the game's later on.
Post by: aev on March 13, 2020, 10:38:03 AM
Post by: andyh on March 13, 2020, 10:38:35 AM
Post by: Dave P on March 13, 2020, 10:41:44 AM
all footy suspended till April 4th apparently
Thats the EFL I think. As always the Premier League are still bean counting to see what is best for everyone.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 10:45:31 AM
I see a Dan Roan tweet. Anything else?
Post by: Kingthing on March 13, 2020, 10:47:48 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on March 13, 2020, 10:48:45 AM
Post by: Villafirst on March 13, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
Post by: Mouse Potato on March 13, 2020, 10:49:34 AM
Out of interest, where are people reading this suspension news?
I see a Dan Roan tweet. Anything else?
BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/51867944
Post by: PeterWithe on March 13, 2020, 10:49:49 AM
Post by: balloubaby on March 13, 2020, 10:51:05 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 10:53:52 AM
Out of interest, where are people reading this suspension news?
I see a Dan Roan tweet. Anything else?
BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/51867944
Got it, cheers. If you click on the tweet it links to, it's a two-parter...
https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1238413204503629824?s=19
Quote
Privately, officials admit very little chance of football resuming as early as Apr 4th so further extension then seems almost certain, unless season is abandoned, but review looks set to happen then if Prem League agree with EFL
Post by: Villafirst on March 13, 2020, 10:56:14 AM
Post by: andyh on March 13, 2020, 11:03:23 AM
Liverpool s first game after 4th April is against Man City - the proverbial 6 pointer.
If they win that they win the league.
Their next game is Villa at home.
Post by: Dave P on March 13, 2020, 11:05:48 AM
Post by: mallo on March 13, 2020, 11:13:12 AM
There's not a bat in Wuhan's chance that football will resume on April 4th.he’s getting better
Post by: Mister E on March 13, 2020, 11:21:08 AM
Post by: Nelson Lodge on March 13, 2020, 11:21:33 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51867989
Post by: sid1964 on March 13, 2020, 11:23:23 AM
Hopefully the season will be resumed at some point.
Post by: Nelson Lodge on March 13, 2020, 11:23:50 AM
Also time to get McGinn ready and may be even Jed Steer will be back.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 13, 2020, 11:25:00 AM
Post by: in exile on March 13, 2020, 11:25:29 AM
Post by: robleflaneur on March 13, 2020, 11:29:28 AM
A cancellation would give leagues a chance to extend a postponement past April which looks a bit optimistic .
I would give Liverpool the title,promote the top 4 from the Championship,no relegation from the Prem .Next season sees a 46 game PL which restarts in July with the PL clubs having to pay £6--7m to help out the lower leagues.
Everyone happy.
Post by: ROBBO on March 13, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 11:32:51 AM
A cancellation of the Euros will be important.Without a cancellation,I can see it being a struggle to complete the fixtures with at least Chelsea,Arsenal.,Everton and probably Leicester and Watford being virus hit.
A cancellation would give leagues a chance to extend a postponement past April which looks a bit optimistic .
I would give Liverpool the title,promote the top 4 from the Championship,no relegation from the Prem .Next season sees a 46 game PL which restarts in July with the PL clubs having to pay £6--7m to help out the lower leagues.
Everyone happy.
I don't fucking think so, matey!!!!!11!!!
Post by: Chris Smith on March 13, 2020, 11:33:00 AM
I think this is just a holding decision before a total abandonment.
My guess too, they’ll have a lot of contingency planning to do in the interim.
Post by: lovejoy on March 13, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
The Premier League will struggle to finish too and so the big question is, do they stick with the existing table or just reset for next season?
Post by: olaftab on March 13, 2020, 11:43:03 AM
And oh yes make Liverpool champions simply because they are so far ahead that no under team can claim unfairness.
Post by: Axl Rose on March 13, 2020, 11:43:59 AM
A cancellation of the Euros will be important.Without a cancellation,I can see it being a struggle to complete the fixtures with at least Chelsea,Arsenal.,Everton and probably Leicester and Watford being virus hit.
A cancellation would give leagues a chance to extend a postponement past April which looks a bit optimistic .
I would give Liverpool the title,promote the top 4 from the Championship,no relegation from the Prem .Next season sees a 46 game PL which restarts in July with the PL clubs having to pay £6--7m to help out the lower leagues.
Everyone happy.
I don't fucking think so, matey!!!!!11!!!
Haha.
I say just write this season off. Liverpool will just have to wait a little bit longer for their league title. They won't mind, I'm sure.
Post by: Villafirst on March 13, 2020, 11:46:07 AM
It is going to be along few weeks with no football to look forward to.
Hopefully the season will be resumed at some point.
I can't see it. Numbers of people with the virus expected to increase week on week for 3 to 4 months to a peak. I'd be surprised if no football players or management staff don't get affected. Government are likely to place further restrictions on people's movement
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 13, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
There's no way the Euros are going ahead with mass travel across all of Europe. Get ready for Euro 2021.
The Premier League will struggle to finish too and so the big question is, do they stick with the existing table or just reset for next season?
No chance of that.
Post by: Axl Rose on March 13, 2020, 11:48:14 AM
All football should stop for this season with current positions frozen. No relegations from any League. Promote top two from championship to Premier League and run a 22 team League next season. 4 teams to be relegated from PL at the end of next season and two promoted from the championship. Return to 20 teams in season 22/23. Repeat this model in all leagues.
And oh yes make Liverpool champions simply because they are so far ahead that no under team can claim unfairness.
You were doing so well until your last point, mate.
Post by: olaftab on March 13, 2020, 11:48:44 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on March 13, 2020, 11:49:53 AM
You’re a hard man Axl😂
Haha. When those lot are concerned :D
Post by: Mister E on March 13, 2020, 11:59:50 AM
There's no way the Euros are going ahead with mass travel across all of Europe. Get ready for Euro 2021.Given how tight it is from Brighton downwards, I can't imagine that anyone would be able to hold that line.My guess is that they will reset for next season.Which will massivley piss off Dirty Leeds and the Bitters.
The Premier League will struggle to finish too and so the big question is, do they stick with the existing table or just reset for next season?
Whatever happens, Villa has to take this opportunity to sort themselves out, in terms of coaching and team management.
Post by: robleflaneur on March 13, 2020, 12:01:27 PM
So horse trading could become important if the season is curtailed,Champions,Euro places would be a PL issue.With relegation and promotion ,the PL clubs have the financial clout to sweeten deals with Championship clubs.A temporary fix would certainly be in Villa's interests and Championship clubs who have no prospect of finishing in the top 6.
Post by: robleflaneur on March 13, 2020, 12:06:05 PM
All football should stop for this season with current positions frozen. No relegations from any League. Promote top two from championship to Premier League and run a 22 team League next season. 4 teams to be relegated from PL at the end of next season and two promoted from the championship. Return to 20 teams in season 22/23. Repeat this model in all leagues.
And oh yes make Liverpool champions simply because they are so far ahead that no under team can claim unfairness.
You were doing so well until your last point, mate.
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 12:06:18 PM
Kicked it into the long grass for 3 weeks.I think this is just a holding decision before a total abandonment.
My guess too, they’ll have a lot of contingency planning to do in the interim.
Problem is that the virus is not predicted to peak until July.
Post by: manic-road on March 13, 2020, 12:08:08 PM
Post by: Mister E on March 13, 2020, 12:18:10 PM
Sky News are reporting that Christian Purslow was the only CEO to attend the Premier League meeting this morning in discussions about cancelling matches until at least April.???
Where were the others?!
Post by: chrisw1 on March 13, 2020, 12:19:58 PM
All football should stop for this season with current positions frozen. No relegations from any League. Promote top two from championship to Premier League and run a 22 team League next season. 4 teams to be relegated from PL at the end of next season and two promoted from the championship. Return to 20 teams in season 22/23. Repeat this model in all leagues.This is broadly what I was thinking, but 4 relegated for 2 seasons running and Chapionship back to 3 promotions.
And oh yes make Liverpool champions simply because they are so far ahead that no under team can claim unfairness.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 13, 2020, 12:20:59 PM
Video call.....Christian was there to represent our best interests.Sky News are reporting that Christian Purslow was the only CEO to attend the Premier League meeting this morning in discussions about cancelling matches until at least April.???
Where were the others?!
Post by: chrisw1 on March 13, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
And probably to try to catch Corona just in case as a back up plan.Video call.....Christian was there to represent our best interests.Sky News are reporting that Christian Purslow was the only CEO to attend the Premier League meeting this morning in discussions about cancelling matches until at least April.???
Where were the others?!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:32:06 PM
All the clubs are being closed down
This place is coming like a ghost town
Teams won't play no more
Too much spitting on the dance floor
Post by: rougegorge on March 13, 2020, 12:34:02 PM
All football should stop for this season with current positions frozen. No relegations from any League. Promote top two from championship to Premier League and run a 22 team League next season. 4 teams to be relegated from PL at the end of next season and two promoted from the championship. Return to 20 teams in season 22/23. Repeat this model in all leagues.
And oh yes make Liverpool champions simply because they are so far ahead that no under team can claim unfairness.
This is a good plan, and not just because we would be getting relegated otherwise. It makes the league sizes reasonably manageable and if Premier League teams were bothered about 4 extra games, they could give them permission to miss next season's EFL Cup with no penalty attached, or cancel that competition for one season.
The issue would be with the teams in line for prospective play-off promotions via the various play-offs...and give some of the Prem millions to the lower leagues to tide them over if necessary.
Post by: JJ-AV on March 13, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
If not then cancelling is the only way IMO. There is no scenario of allowing promotion to anyone that would aggrieve someone. The scenario above for example would not sit well with Fulham, Brentford and Forest. You can't promote/relegate any club until it's mathematically confirmed.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 13, 2020, 12:43:04 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 12:47:27 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 13, 2020, 12:50:36 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 13, 2020, 12:51:45 PM
Post by: TaxDodger on March 13, 2020, 12:53:12 PM
I can see a scenario panning out where the bottom 2 in the PL as it stands at a given point drop and the automatic 2 from Championship get promoted, play off spots are cancelled.
In which case getting to the League Cup final and not playing the Sheffield United game will have relegated us..
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 12:58:19 PM
Post by: mallo on March 13, 2020, 01:00:13 PM
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 13, 2020, 01:01:20 PM
I can see a scenario panning out where the bottom 2 in the PL as it stands at a given point drop and the automatic 2 from Championship get promoted, play off spots are cancelled.
In which case getting to the League Cup final and not playing the Sheffield United game will have relegated us..
I can't see this happening, especially when teams have played differing amounts of games. Also, our home record is far superior to our away record, and we have still got 6 home games left to play which is more than the teams around us - doing this would just open up all kinds of legal challenges.
To be honest, I think the league being expanded to 22 or 24 teams next season is almost certainly the best way forward. I also wouldn't put it past the Premier League to use this as an excuse to play at least one round of matches overseas, saying the additional money would be redistributed to the Football League teams who have suffered due to any cancelled matches.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 13, 2020, 01:01:28 PM
I can see a scenario panning out where the bottom 2 in the PL as it stands at a given point drop and the automatic 2 from Championship get promoted, play off spots are cancelled.
In which case getting to the League Cup final and not playing the Sheffield United game will have relegated us..
Which is why I said at a given point, you can't decide until everyone has played the same number of games, you could argue this until the cows come home. Who knows, we are in completely uncharted territory. Maybe the fairest way is to say go back to the point in the season where everyone had played everybody once, that's the point you use to decide.
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:04:34 PM
This seasons finished. They just haven't said it yet.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 13, 2020, 01:07:46 PM
All training suspended.
This seasons finished. They just haven't said it yet.
Blimey. Didn't see that one coming.
Post by: Border villan on March 13, 2020, 01:14:56 PM
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:19:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 13, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
All training suspended.
This seasons finished. They just haven't said it yet.
Where have you seen that?
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on March 13, 2020, 01:20:44 PM
The only way ahead is for the season to be null and voided, with the hope we can start the next one as planned in August (doubtful)
You can't start arsing about promoting or relegating clubs who haven't yet earned it or try and finish this season from the point we halted it at some unknown point in the future. The football leagues are a competition that haven't run their natural course so no prizes or demotions can be handed out otherwise the integrity of the competition will be all over the place.
We're in a special time, rules will have to change to accommodate the fact we're all in an unknown position at this time.
If the FA Cup got postponed at the quarter final stage they can't just hand it to whoever scored the most goals up to that point in it or hand each of the 8 teams left a meaningless symbolic cup just because they'd done well in it up to that point. It would (and will) just be cancelled for this year.
Things have to be either finished or scrubbed as far as i can see.
Post by: lovejoy on March 13, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 13, 2020, 01:27:55 PM
The only way ahead is for the season to be null and voided, with the hope we can start the next one as planned in August (doubtful)
You can't start arsing about promoting or relegating clubs who haven't yet earned it or try and finish this season from the point we halted it at some unknown point in the future. The football leagues are a competition that haven't run their natural course so no prizes or demotions can be handed out otherwise the integrity of the competition will be all over the place.
We're in a special time, rules will have to change to accommodate the fact we're all in an unknown position at this time.
If the FA Cup got postponed at the quarter final stage they can't just hand it to whoever scored the most goals up to that point in it or hand each of the 8 teams left a meaningless symbolic cup just because they'd done well in it up to that point. It would (and will) just be cancelled for this year.
Things have to be either finished or scrubbed as far as i can see.
Will that mean Man City didn't win the League Cup and I can get my ticket money back?
Post by: andyh on March 13, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
All training suspended.
This seasons finished. They just haven't said it yet.
Blimey. Didn't see that one coming.
How long before 'Insta' pics of players in Dubai/Las Vegas/Caribbean etc start popping up !!! (not necessarily Villa Players)
Post by: RichardBatchelor on March 13, 2020, 01:34:07 PM
A cancellation of the Euros will be important.Without a cancellation,I can see it being a struggle to complete the fixtures with at least Chelsea,Arsenal.,Everton and probably Leicester and Watford being virus hit.
A cancellation would give leagues a chance to extend a postponement past April which looks a bit optimistic .
I would give Liverpool the title,promote the top 4 from the Championship,no relegation from the Prem .Next season sees a 46 game PL which restarts in July with the PL clubs having to pay £6--7m to help out the lower leagues.
Everyone happy.
I don't fucking think so, matey!!!!!11!!!
Liverpool deserve it totally, it’s ridiculous to say otherwise.
Post by: frank black on March 13, 2020, 01:38:45 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 01:39:32 PM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 13, 2020, 01:41:25 PM
A cancellation of the Euros will be important.Without a cancellation,I can see it being a struggle to complete the fixtures with at least Chelsea,Arsenal.,Everton and probably Leicester and Watford being virus hit.
A cancellation would give leagues a chance to extend a postponement past April which looks a bit optimistic .
I would give Liverpool the title,promote the top 4 from the Championship,no relegation from the Prem .Next season sees a 46 game PL which restarts in July with the PL clubs having to pay £6--7m to help out the lower leagues.
Everyone happy.
I don't fucking think so, matey!!!!!11!!!
Liverpool deserve it totally, it’s ridiculous to say otherwise.
Fuck em. If they’re that good then they can win it next year
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 13, 2020, 01:41:56 PM
Liverpool absolutely deserve it, which will make it one of the funniest things ever if they don't end up winning it.It would. They'd end the season potless.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 13, 2020, 01:43:54 PM
Liverpool absolutely deserve it, which will make it one of the funniest things ever if they don't end up winning it.It would. They'd end the season potless.
Could also work out that Leeds AND Albion don't get promoted.
Post by: TaxDodger on March 13, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
Anyway, Liverpool get to remain Champions of Europe for a bit longer, so they clearly would benefit enormously from everything being scrapped.
Post by: RichardBatchelor on March 13, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Speak for yourself. I like Liverpool. Manyoo can feck off though.Liverpool absolutely deserve it, which will make it one of the funniest things ever if they don't end up winning it.It would. They'd end the season potless.
Could also work out that Leeds AND Albion don't get promoted.
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:54:45 PM
Sky News. Training/Promotional visits etc.All training suspended.
This seasons finished. They just haven't said it yet.
Where have you seen that?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 13, 2020, 01:55:37 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 13, 2020, 01:57:44 PM
One being all teams receiving a point for all remain matches.
I think Purslow was making sure nothing was going to affect Villa status and that the best decision possible for Villa chance to stay in premier league and that there was no unfair relegation.
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
I think it would totally undermine Man City's title challenge if they were to award the title to Liverpool. There's still 10 games to go - it's clearly still all to play for. Could have gone either way if the season was allowed to continue.Liverpool's form in the last two weeks has been as bad as Villa's (almost).
Anyway, Liverpool get to remain Champions of Europe for a bit longer, so they clearly would benefit enormously from everything being scrapped.
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 02:00:02 PM
Speak for yourself. I like Liverpool. Manyoo can feck off though.Liverpool absolutely deserve it, which will make it one of the funniest things ever if they don't end up winning it.It would. They'd end the season potless.
Could also work out that Leeds AND Albion don't get promoted.
You must be aged less than about 35 then?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 13, 2020, 02:00:20 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 02:00:22 PM
Speak for yourself. I like Liverpool.
Final warning.
Post by: phantom limb on March 13, 2020, 02:01:02 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 02:01:33 PM
I was having a look on RAWK to see what the Liverpool diehards make of it. One clown says 'Do the decent thing and give us the trophy. Then abandon the season' To which another guy replied, 'The likes of Villa and Bournemouth might have something to say about that', to which the first guy replied - and I quote - "shit one on them. Have a play off behind closed doors or something. There's no way they can completely void the league. That would be ridiculously unfair on us."
It would, wouldn't it. But deliciously so. It might knock Slippy G off the top of my list of favourite 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' moments.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 02:02:55 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2020, 02:05:55 PM
Unless there are specific provisions within the contracts, and I very much doubt there are.
They either complete the season on null and void it.
The idea that they can start coming up with alternative methods to determine league standings is not feasible.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 13, 2020, 02:08:30 PM
Some players will be more professional and serious than others.
We don't want to see players out and about night clubs, cafes and restaurants or flying out to USA or Dubai coz they can.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 13, 2020, 02:12:15 PM
They will have to play it out when they can, start the next season when they can and scrap the euros all together for this tournament if need be.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2020, 02:12:23 PM
Liverpool not winning the league would be one of the all time footballing injustices. Please please please let it happen.I can’t imagine too many Everton fans feeling sorry for them.
Post by: Villafirst on March 13, 2020, 02:12:42 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 13, 2020, 02:12:52 PM
It's claimed the euro 2020 will be postponed and that is to be confirmed as not happening when they uefa meeting takes Tuesday march 17th
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
They can't scrap anything, it makes a mockery of a multi billion pound industry.
They will have to play it out when they can, start the next season when they can and scrap the euros all together for this tournament if need be.
And what happens to the transfer window, to all the players that will leave in June when their contracts expire and so on?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 13, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
Post by: TaxDodger on March 13, 2020, 02:22:43 PM
Liverpool not winning the league would be one of the all time footballing injustices. Please please please let it happen.
I'm also looking forward to Rangers and Celtic battling it out for one in a row next season.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 02:22:55 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 13, 2020, 02:24:43 PM
They can't scrap anything, it makes a mockery of a multi billion pound industry.
They will have to play it out when they can, start the next season when they can and scrap the euros all together for this tournament if need be.
And what happens to the transfer window, to all the players that will leave in June when their contracts expire and so on?
The contracts would have to worked out but i'm sure in the interests of not scrapping a whole season something could be done. Extensions till the season has played out for example. Or if players won't agree then let them go, most teams have enough players to cope with one or two dropping out because they're legally entitled to do so but i'm sure very few would.
Not sure the transfer window is even worth considering, they've changed the rules on that so many times anyway.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 13, 2020, 02:25:03 PM
They can't scrap anything, it makes a mockery of a multi billion pound industry.
They will have to play it out when they can, start the next season when they can and scrap the euros all together for this tournament if need be.
And what happens to the transfer window, to all the players that will leave in June when their contracts expire and so on?
I think the world has bigger fish to fry than worrying about the potential 'mockery of the top English Football League' Something has to give so somewhere down the line something will be ditched.
Post by: andyh on March 13, 2020, 02:26:03 PM
They can't scrap anything, it makes a mockery of a multi billion pound industry.That's how I see it.
They will have to play it out when they can, start the next season when they can and scrap the euros all together for this tournament if need be.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 13, 2020, 02:30:00 PM
Realistically the talk would be of having to finish season by July 20th so there is 3/4 week break before the next season. As there has to be a break before the following season
It's claimed the euro 2020 will be postponed and that is to be confirmed as not happening when they uefa meeting takes Tuesday march 17th
And the players out of contract at the start of July?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 02:34:31 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 13, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
They can't scrap anything, it makes a mockery of a multi billion pound industry.
They will have to play it out when they can, start the next season when they can and scrap the euros all together for this tournament if need be.
And what happens to the transfer window, to all the players that will leave in June when their contracts expire and so on?
I think the world has bigger fish to fry than worrying about the potential 'mockery of the top English Football League' Something has to give so somewhere down the line something will be ditched.
Are we all doomed Bren? Should we consider life as we know it to be over? Oh no, oh god nooooooooo.......... wail etc
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 13, 2020, 02:40:40 PM
Realistically the talk would be of having to finish season by July 20th so there is 3/4 week break before the next season. As there has to be a break before the following season
It's claimed the euro 2020 will be postponed and that is to be confirmed as not happening when they uefa meeting takes Tuesday march 17th
And the players out of contract at the start of July?
Month extensions for players due to mitigation circumstance ?
Post by: Richard E on March 13, 2020, 02:43:31 PM
Realistically the talk would be of having to finish season by July 20th so there is 3/4 week break before the next season. As there has to be a break before the following season
It's claimed the euro 2020 will be postponed and that is to be confirmed as not happening when they uefa meeting takes Tuesday march 17th
And the players out of contract at the start of July?
Month extensions for players due to mitigation circumstance ?
Unless there is a provision in the contract for extension that can't happen unless mutually agreed. Players might not want to extend their contracts if they are free to do deals elsewhere.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 13, 2020, 02:43:54 PM
Realistically the talk would be of having to finish season by July 20th so there is 3/4 week break before the next season. As there has to be a break before the following season
It's claimed the euro 2020 will be postponed and that is to be confirmed as not happening when they uefa meeting takes Tuesday march 17th
And the players out of contract at the start of July?
Month extensions for players due to mitigation circumstance ?
What in these day and age of greedy bastards & their agents?
Post by: Small Rodent on March 13, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 13, 2020, 02:52:36 PM
Realistically the talk would be of having to finish season by July 20th so there is 3/4 week break before the next season. As there has to be a break before the following season
It's claimed the euro 2020 will be postponed and that is to be confirmed as not happening when they uefa meeting takes Tuesday march 17th
And the players out of contract at the start of July?
Month extensions for players due to mitigation circumstance ?
Unless there is a provision in the contract for extension that can't happen unless mutually agreed. Players might not want to extend their contracts if they are free to do deals elsewhere.
I guess it shows all the complexities of just extending a deal.
This is a special measures situation isn't it.
I can imagine in future contingency will be in players contract to protect them from situations same for clubs
Post by: aldridgeboy on March 13, 2020, 02:53:19 PM
Although can you see the lawyers face, when we say “ we might win our game in hand “ 😂
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 02:55:11 PM
In the former scenario, there are plenty of clubs who'd possibly feel aggrieved, Liverpool being the main example.
In the latter, there's nobody yet relegated so it's all what-ifs. Similarly, Man City would argue that Liverpool have lost 3 of their last 4 and that their form has obviously fallen off a cliff....
Post by: Villan For Life on March 13, 2020, 03:04:53 PM
Liverpool not winning the league would be one of the all time footballing injustices. Please please please let it happen.
I totally agree. Please let it happen.
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2020, 03:08:51 PM
April-June, we are advised, will be the peak of the virus. With contracts for players expiring at the end of June, the integrity of the league is broken. You also have the issue of this season running into next.
That is it for 19/20. Whether they promote the top two in the Championship as the Bundesliga are proposing, to make a 22 team league, remains to be seen.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 13, 2020, 03:12:46 PM
What are the implications there as it's agreed before the start of the season and the season isn't finished ?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 13, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
Post by: passport1 on March 13, 2020, 03:16:55 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
Great opportunity to bin him
Great opportunity to give him time to work on the issues and get some players back from injury.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on March 13, 2020, 03:20:26 PM
I dont think there is the remotest possibility that this season will be completed.
April-June, we are advised, will be the peak of the virus. With contracts for players expiring at the end of June, the integrity of the league is broken. You also have the issue of this season running into next.
That is it for 19/20. Whether they promote the top two in the Championship as the Bundesliga are proposing, to make a 22 team league, remains to be seen.
This model will happen imo.
Post by: Small Rodent on March 13, 2020, 03:21:24 PM
They can't scrap anything, it makes a mockery of a multi billion pound industry.
They will have to play it out when they can, start the next season when they can and scrap the euros all together for this tournament if need be.
And what happens to the transfer window, to all the players that will leave in June when their contracts expire and so on?
I think the world has bigger fish to fry than worrying about the potential 'mockery of the top English Football League' Something has to give so somewhere down the line something will be ditched.
Are we all doomed Bren? Should we consider life as we know it to be over? Oh no, oh god nooooooooo.......... wail etc
Are you're more concerned about the mockery of a multi-million pound industry than people's lives? Are you mocking Bren?
Post by: lovejoy on March 13, 2020, 03:27:40 PM
Post by: passport1 on March 13, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
Great opportunity to bin him
Great opportunity to give him time to work on the issues and get some players back from injury.
And we would still be seeing the same shite performances at the end of it.Hes had all the opportunities I want to see.
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 03:34:35 PM
Great opportunity to bin him
Great opportunity to give him time to work on the issues and get some players back from injury.
And we would still be seeing the same shite performances at the end of it.Hes had all the opportunities I want to see.
Or not. Let's see what happens. I think he'll be around a good while yet (if for no other reason than we won't be playing!)
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2020, 03:36:50 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 13, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
This should be left to the pools panel.
Just don't leave it to the VAR panel.
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 03:51:30 PM
Frustrating to think that had we demonstrated a capacity to draw 3 games that we lost from these: Bournemouth x2, Arsenal away, Liverpool at home, Spurs at home it would be all academic to us what happens to the three clubs in the bottom three right now.Not forgetting the refereeing debacle at Crystal Palace.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 13, 2020, 04:06:24 PM
With our 1 game less, we are in a good legal position regarding relegation if things get scrapped.
Our saving grace. Looking at the table, there's no way the PL could relegate us.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 04:13:49 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on March 13, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Coronavirus: National League fixtures this weekend to go ahead as planned (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51877974)
Post by: mr underhill on March 13, 2020, 04:33:00 PM
Post by: lovejoy on March 13, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
This should be left to the pools panel.
Three days before Christmas in 1963, a freezing fog enveloped Britain. Eighteen football matches were called off, with a further eight abandoned mid-game. The fixture card looked utterly decimated at the time, but although nobody knew it, there wouldn't be this much football again for more than two months. By Boxing Day, the entire country had been covered in snow. Only 17 games were played on 29 December. Come New Year's Day, not a single match was played. Five third-round FA Cup ties went ahead on 5 January, but with the country in the middle of a Big Freeze, battling -20°C temperatures and 15-foot snowdrifts, the round didn't get completed until 11 March.
The lack of matches wreaked havoc with the football pools, so Vernons, Zetters and Littlewoods acted quickly. A predictions system was put in place, and on 26 January the Pools Panel sat for the first time. The panel consisted of six men: former England players Tom Finney, Tommy Lawton and Ted Drake, former Scotland full-back George Young, former World Cup referee Arthur Ellis, and John Theodore Cuthbert Moore-Brabazon, 1st Baron Brabazon of Tara. Brabazon was a former Tory MP and aviation pioneer who, in 1909, strapped a wastepaper basket containing a piglet to the wing of a plane to prove that pigs could fly. Their deliberations were made behind closed doors at the Connaught Rooms in London, then announced live on BBC television. Of the 38 matches, the only predictions to raise eyebrows were Leeds to beat Stoke and Peterborough to win at Derby.
The weather slowly broke. There were 11 games on 16 February, then 24 on 23 February – the most since the fog came down on 22 December, and the first day the new Pools Panel wasn't required. On 16 March the first full league card since mid-December was played.
Great post although with a name like John Theodore Cuthbert Moore-Brabazon, 1st Baron Brabazon of Tara, it was superfluous information that he was a Tory MP.
Post by: mr underhill on March 13, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
Post by: TonyD on March 13, 2020, 04:50:49 PM
Post by: lovejoy on March 13, 2020, 05:04:40 PM
the fact that he was an MP of any political persuasion would be irrelevant. But the whole post was - we are dealing with a medical emergency, not snow and ice.
Some idle amusing distraction is of some benefit in the current envvironment.
Post by: andyh on March 13, 2020, 05:05:08 PM
Seems strange he was the only one who attended in person.
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2020, 05:11:44 PM
Did Purslow not get the memo that the PL meeting was via conference call?
Seems strange he was the only one who attended in person.
Maybe he's got it and wanted to make sure they all got it too.... So they'd have to cancel everything ;D
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on March 13, 2020, 05:15:54 PM
should that read "enviralment" ?the fact that he was an MP of any political persuasion would be irrelevant. But the whole post was - we are dealing with a medical emergency, not snow and ice.
Some idle amusing distraction is of some benefit in the current envvironment.
Post by: SaddVillan on March 13, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Elite football in Britain has been suspended until at least 3 April as a result of the spread of coronavirus.
All Blues games will proceed as scheduled.
Post by: charlatan on March 13, 2020, 05:37:23 PM
If the FA Cup got postponed at the quarter final stage they can't just hand it to whoever scored the most goals up to that point in it or hand each of the 8 teams left a meaningless symbolic cup just because they'd done well in it up to that point. It would (and will) just be cancelled for this year.
I have a book on Betfair worth £235 regardless of the winner ::)
Post by: kieron on March 13, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
BBC article - clarification:
Elite football in Britain has been suspended until at least 3 April as a result of the spread of coronavirus.
All Blues games will proceed as scheduled.
I'm worried about the fact that we're bracketed in as 'elite' tbh.
Post by: RichardBatchelor on March 13, 2020, 05:51:58 PM
Post by: frank black on March 13, 2020, 05:57:12 PM
I guess this will be the only relevant thread for a fair while to come ...
Yep just this, the transfer links and don’t go Jack threads
Post by: rougegorge on March 13, 2020, 06:03:09 PM
National League games going ahead, but Solihull's game tonight has been postponed.This is very odd as some National League teams get the same kind of attendances as League 2 sides.
Coronavirus: National League fixtures this weekend to go ahead as planned (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51877974)
So Steps 1 and 2 of the non-league pyramid proceed but then at Step 3, the Northern Premier League follows suit by playing on, whilst the Southern League and the Isthmian League postpone their matches.
So nothing is fully joined up.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 13, 2020, 06:16:42 PM
From Facebook
Tony Xia’s a legend
He’s Villa thru and thru
So he’s saved us yet again with a nasty of dose of flu
He saw that we were struggling and he weren’t having that!
So he went down to the takeaway and ate an un cooked bat!
Tony xia he ate a bat
Ate a bat
Tony xia he ate a bat
Ate a bat
Ate it up, we’re staying up, we’ll win the fucking cup!
Tony xia he ate a bat
Ate a bat.
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 13, 2020, 08:23:49 PM
In my opinion its done and dusted. Lets hope we can get the team and management sorted for the new season.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2020, 08:25:38 PM
An ill wind ......,,,
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 13, 2020, 08:31:55 PM
Our best chance of survival is canceling the season.
An ill wind ......,,,
Its a sad ill wind, personally I don't think we have even come close to grasping how serious this is. In terms of football, its just football, a game, doesn't compare to the damage this will cause, its for that reason also that starting the season again in April will be impossible, example, lets say by then the rate of increase is starting to bottom out or decline slightly, we allow mass gatherings again and the figures start to climb again....The government would get slaughtered, they will never risk this in a million years and certainly not for a game of football.
Post by: colin69 on March 13, 2020, 08:40:42 PM
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Post by: brian green on March 13, 2020, 08:43:46 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 13, 2020, 08:44:03 PM
It won’t start again in April, absolutely no chance. But somehow the season must be finished at some point.
Apparently, not necessarily, extenuating circumstances allows for the FA to stop or cancel a season early providing there are a significant enough/amount of games left to bring into question who would go down, finish top etc, that has to be this season.
Post by: phantom limb on March 13, 2020, 08:44:41 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 13, 2020, 08:46:38 PM
Has anything like this happened previously, is there any kind of precedent set for cancelling fixtures?Only for the Second World War but the 1939/40 season was only 3 games in when it was stopped.
Post by: colin69 on March 13, 2020, 08:49:11 PM
It won’t start again in April, absolutely no chance. But somehow the season must be finished at some point.
Apparently, not necessarily, extenuating circumstances allows for the FA to stop or cancel a season early providing there are a significant enough/amount of games left to bring into question who would go down, finish top etc, that has to be this season.
Fair enough, I wasn’t aware of that.
Post by: phantom limb on March 13, 2020, 08:51:59 PM
Has anything like this happened previously, is there any kind of precedent set for cancelling fixtures?Only for the Second World War but the 1939/40 season was only 3 games in when it was stopped.
Thanks, it’s hard to predict what they will do then! Void the season? Whatever happens someone will be annoyed I think.
Post by: eamonn on March 13, 2020, 08:55:48 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on March 13, 2020, 08:57:47 PM
Post by: colin69 on March 13, 2020, 08:58:09 PM
That game in hand might be our saving grace.Ours and Deans.
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 13, 2020, 09:00:41 PM
Has anything like this happened previously, is there any kind of precedent set for cancelling fixtures?Only for the Second World War but the 1939/40 season was only 3 games in when it was stopped.
Thanks, it’s hard to predict what they will do then! Void the season? Whatever happens someone will be annoyed I think.
Liverpool will be annoyed but won't dare to say so, as for the rest of the Premiership about 4 or 5 at the top will feel thwarted, most rest won't give a damn and probably about 5 or 6 at the bottom will breath one huge sigh of relief.
Post by: steamer on March 13, 2020, 09:05:55 PM
Liverpool win the League and we go down
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 13, 2020, 09:06:38 PM
Part of the "herd immunity" theory Johnson's advisors seem to be attempting requires mass gatherings to level out the cases into big bulges rather than sharp spikes so the return of football with spectators in attendance may not be too long coming back.
Lets face it, that is huge theory and only theory, nobody at this stage know how this virus is going to react in any environment, example, the Chinese now know and confirmed in the last few days this virus can mutate, unlike say, measles, so on that basis the more hosts this virus has the more chance these little beggars can change, toughen up and go again, reinfect, that blows the herd theory right out the window
Post by: themossman on March 13, 2020, 09:09:59 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 13, 2020, 09:10:48 PM
Or they could say, the seasons over, current positions are the final ones.
Liverpool win the League and we go down
They could but could you imagine the legal claims, Aston Villa could legitimately claim by way of litigation we are just going through the process of sacking our manager, as such we are going to install a manager whom we have total confidence in would keep us in the Premiership, therefore you have denied us that potential and caused massive financial loss. Huge.
Much fairer and much more common sense to call time on the season and go again.
Post by: brian green on March 13, 2020, 09:16:12 PM
Post by: themossman on March 13, 2020, 09:16:33 PM
Post by: The Edge on March 13, 2020, 09:16:39 PM
Or they could say, the seasons over, current positions are the final ones.As has been stated previously there's not a chance of this. Any club being relegated would quite rightly argue that with 11 games to go anything could have happened. Clubs lawyers would have a field day and could bankrupt the PL & FA. As for Liverpool being denied the title? Oh well.
Liverpool win the League and we go down
Post by: DB on March 13, 2020, 09:21:54 PM
Or they could say, the seasons over, current positions are the final ones.As has been stated previously there's not a chance of this. Any club being relegated would quite rightly argue that with 11 games to go anything could have happened. Clubs lawyers would have a field day and could bankrupt the PL & FA. As for Liverpool being denied the title? Oh well.
Liverpool win the League and we go down
And as for us, we have a game in hand.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 09:23:19 PM
A fair approach to games in hand would probably be to pro rata points which would still see us relegated.
How is that fair?
You might just leave the table as it stands because nothing would change.
Post by: john e on March 13, 2020, 09:33:30 PM
could be us that loses out just as easy as anyone else
Post by: aev on March 13, 2020, 09:35:27 PM
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 09:41:24 PM
Surely that just opens up exactly the same issues with teams at the top of the championship?
Here's my solution:
PL members vote on whether LFC should be awarded trophy (overwhelming yes vote)
No teams relegated from PL
2 teams promoted from Championship
Other promotions and relegations in the EFL 2 up, 2 down
No play offs as there will not be enough time
Placings 3rd to 6th in Championship to receive the parachute payments that would have gone to this years 3 teams who would have been relegated
Next season, both the PL & Championship would have 22 teams
Teams in European competition given a bye in FA Cup round 3
Next season, 5 teams would be relegated from PL
This would mean that both divisions would revert to 20 & 24 teams respectively.
The only losers would be the play off candidates but realistically, they would have to be scrapped because of the time factor. Championship teams would be compensated by way of parachute payments.
Post by: john2710 on March 13, 2020, 09:45:14 PM
If the virus peak is at the end of May / early June, as the Govt expects, I can't see how they can expect players to start playing again in the middle of that. By April we'll be at the start of a 8-10 week lockdown & things won't start to get back to normal until July. The virus might return again in the Autumn & cause further disruption next season.
The only logical solution is to declare this season void & start next season early. They won't want next season disrupted too.
Post by: Steve67 on March 13, 2020, 09:48:38 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 13, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
The PL will fight tooth & nail to get the season finished. Even if it means playing 10 games in 30 days during June. There's so much money / sponsorship that will be lost, they won't give up easily.
If the virus peak is at the end of May / early June, as the Govt expects, I can't see how they can expect players to start playing again in the middle of that. By April we'll be at the start of a 8-10 week lockdown & things won't start to get back to normal until July. The virus might return again in the Autumn & cause further disruption next season.
The only logical solution is to declare this season void & start next season early. They won't want next season disrupted too.
I think we have to finish this season, no matter how long it takes to do that. If it eats into next season, cancel that one and honour all of the present contracts with the cups or league sponsors currently in place. One interesting point, if current player contracts finish on July 1st and we have to play beyond that pint, which is likely, are those contracts void?
Post by: Villafirst on March 13, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
Or they could say, the seasons over, current positions are the final ones.
Liverpool win the League and we go down
But we've got a game in hand.....
Post by: Arsey on March 13, 2020, 09:57:09 PM
even if the season could restart in 4 weeks, which will never happen, playing 10 rounds of games before contracts end, window opens etc. there just isn’t enough time. Players will
also have had the best part of 4 weeks off with limited training, to expect them to just pick up where they left of is a nonsense.
some tough decisions ahead as to what they will do but it’s fairly safe to assume no one will be relegated.
Post by: Des Little on March 13, 2020, 10:00:21 PM
Post by: Border villan on March 13, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
Surely that just opens up exactly the same issues with teams at the top of the championship?
Here's my solution:
PL members vote on whether LFC should be awarded trophy (overwhelming yes vote)
No teams relegated from PL
2 teams promoted from Championship
Other promotions and relegations in the EFL 2 up, 2 down
No play offs as there will not be enough time
Placings 3rd to 6th in Championship to receive the parachute payments that would have gone to this years 3 teams who would have been relegated
Next season, both the PL & Championship would have 22 teams
Teams in European competition given a bye in FA Cup round 3
Next season, 5 teams would be relegated from PL
This would mean that both divisions would revert to 20 & 24 teams respectively.
The only losers would be the play off candidates but realistically, they would have to be scrapped because of the time factor. Championship teams would be compensated by way of parachute payments.
All going well until the first proposal.
Post by: steamer on March 13, 2020, 10:14:04 PM
Nobody is going to be happy, so many complications, contracts , sponsorship's etc.
Players contracts , service providers, paying staff with no income, TV presenters with nothing to present the list is endless
replicate this in every sphere of life.
I hope there are good force Majeure contracts in place along with a good dollop of common sense.
Glad I just retired and do not have to be part of all the doomsday scenario planning that I am sure is going on in all corporate, which in turn will lead to more panic and negative responses.
Post by: colin69 on March 13, 2020, 10:18:55 PM
Post by: themossman on March 13, 2020, 10:27:43 PM
A fair approach to games in hand would probably be to pro rata points which would still see us relegated.
How is that fair?
You might just leave the table as it stands because nothing would change.
It would be the only sensible way to deal with the game in hand. Let’s face it we’re going to lose to Chelsea whenever we play them so that would be a generous approach from our perspective.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on March 13, 2020, 10:30:40 PM
Surely that just opens up exactly the same issues with teams at the top of the championship?
Here's my solution:
PL members vote on whether LFC should be awarded trophy (overwhelming yes vote)
No teams relegated from PL
2 teams promoted from Championship
Other promotions and relegations in the EFL 2 up, 2 down
No play offs as there will not be enough time
Placings 3rd to 6th in Championship to receive the parachute payments that would have gone to this years 3 teams who would have been relegated
Next season, both the PL & Championship would have 22 teams
Teams in European competition given a bye in FA Cup round 3
Next season, 5 teams would be relegated from PL
This would mean that both divisions would revert to 20 & 24 teams respectively.
The only losers would be the play off candidates but realistically, they would have to be scrapped because of the time factor. Championship teams would be compensated by way of parachute payments.
Best solution I’ve heard yet.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 10:42:48 PM
And you can't say we'd definitely lose to Chelsea, Watford have won 1 in 7, a 3-0 battering of the best side in the country.
It's such a legal minefield i'm really glad I don't have to try to work out what to do if this carries on for months.
Post by: LeeB on March 13, 2020, 10:56:56 PM
I’m no fan of a Liverpool but nobody can say hand on heart they don’t deserve to win the league surely?
I'd give it a fucking good go.
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2020, 10:58:14 PM
I’m no fan of a Liverpool but nobody can say hand on heart they don’t deserve to win the league surely?
I'd give it a fucking good go.
I don't care what happens so long as we stay up.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 10:59:04 PM
I don't see how you can relegate from some divisions but not others. Relegated clubs will just point to divisions with no relegation and you are into the minefield.
And you can't say we'd definitely lose to Chelsea, Watford have won 1 in 7, a 3-0 battering of the best side in the country.
It's such a legal minefield i'm really glad I don't have to try to work out what to do if this carries on for months.
Yes I agree.
So to tweak it, I would just allow 2 up from each EFL division.
Relegation numbers changed accordingly the following season in order to bring each division back to the numbers it had this season
EFL rules prescribe that all disputes are dealt with pursuant to S5 of the Arbitration Act 1996:
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-9--arbitration/
So in my scenario, the only issue would be if the play off contenders in the Championship decided that they wanted to challenge a/the decision to do away with the play offs for this season only.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 13, 2020, 11:00:11 PM
I’m no fan of a Liverpool but nobody can say hand on heart they don’t deserve to win the league surely?
It's clearly a broad church, this football supporting malarkey.
Post by: Brassneck on March 13, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
I’m no fan of a Liverpool but nobody can say hand on heart they don’t deserve to win the league surely?
I'd give it a fucking good go.
I don't care what happens so long as we stay up.
Me neither - Besides, I dislike Man City & Leicester more so I'd actually prefer Liverpool to win it.
Post by: john2710 on March 13, 2020, 11:36:39 PM
Post by: ROBBO on March 13, 2020, 11:38:26 PM
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2020, 11:42:27 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 13, 2020, 11:47:44 PM
Post by: David_Nab on March 14, 2020, 12:09:24 AM
Liverpool given title
Leeds and WBA promoted 5 relegation spots next season and EFL cup not played
In our given situation not a bad set of suggestions
Post by: LeeB on March 14, 2020, 12:18:07 AM
I’m no fan of a Liverpool but nobody can say hand on heart they don’t deserve to win the league surely?
I'd give it a fucking good go.
I don't care what happens so long as we stay up.
Me neither - Besides, I dislike Man City & Leicester more so I'd actually prefer Liverpool to win it.
Mods, have a word please. There may be children reading.
Post by: Brassneck on March 14, 2020, 12:41:59 AM
What I think is an issue is that we all agree you can't relegate teams with so much of the season left, so in the same way I don't see how you can promote teams with so much of the season left as it's the same principle. Which is why i'll be damned if I can think of any system that is actually fair, and isn't a legal minefield.
Of course there is no solution that is going to be fair.
The most obvious and sensible thing to do is void the season - People are dying.
However, you could relegate teams in the EFL but not the PL - The 2 are completely separate bodies. Just because the PL don't relegate anyone doesn't mean an EFL team can use this as an argument if they are relegated.
You could also not relegate anyone from any division. The second option obviously reduces the potential of disputes from relegated clubs.
Keeping the most happy would be to promote the top 2 sides from each division.
Just because nobody is relegated doesn't mean that nobody can be promoted.
I envisage any disputes to go in favour of the EFL/PL given that a worldwide crisis is taking place. The two leagues are competition organisers and should have the right to make the final decision in any competition.
Whatever decision is arrived at, somebody is going to be upset - Even if it's only those who are currently occupying the play off spots. The 2 bodies need support from it's members and hopefully, the majority will oblige.
What about the FA Cup? Have the remaining 8 teams also got a dispute that needs resolving because that will be the first competition to go. Somebody has to make the decision and that somebody has to be the competition organiser. I suspect they will do so with the benefit of consultations with lawyers.
Personally, I'm only concerned about Villa.
Post by: Flin5tone on March 14, 2020, 12:47:39 AM
I'd be amazed if even next season will be able to start
Post by: Villan82 on March 14, 2020, 12:50:20 AM
To be honest I think this will go on for so long and will change the way we live that much Football will be the least of our worries .
I'd be amazed if even next season will be able to start
Distinct possibility I fear.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 14, 2020, 01:29:38 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 14, 2020, 01:44:50 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8111151/Liverpool-set-given-Premier-League-title-season-ended-coronavirus.html
Liverpool given title
Leeds and WBA promoted 5 relegation spots next season and EFL cup not played
In our given situation not a bad set of suggestions
They are going to have to make the call soon I would have thought. Guess you could promote the top two in the Championship and have two leagues of 22 next season, with the teams in the automatic promotion places in the EFL leagues replacing the bottom 2 in the Championship and bottom three in League One. Bit more straightforward in a League Two, as the top side in the National League would just replace Bury.
The other option would be to completely void the season. Would be worth it just to see the the amount of boiled piss and high pitched whining in Liverpool and Sandwell.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2020, 02:01:44 AM
There is a ton of stuff about the ability to set up committees to make decisions but I can not see how that would resolve the problem.
So it’s still down to complete the season or void it, there is no way that they can do anything else.
I am also wondering if this could be the opportunity for some sort of fragmentation or breakaway league to occur.
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 02:30:39 AM
To be honest I think this will go on for so long and will change the way we live that much Football will be the least of our worries .
I'd be amazed if even next season will be able to start
I think you've been watching a bit too much Walking Dead.
Post by: olaftab on March 14, 2020, 03:27:30 AM
We invented this fucking league. Our rules.What do you think the big man from Perthshire would have done in this situation?
Post by: Villafirst on March 14, 2020, 03:49:26 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 14, 2020, 06:22:02 AM
Start next season with everyone on the same points as now in all divisionsNo that’s weird.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 14, 2020, 06:43:17 AM
I have been reading through the PL handbook and there appears to be no provision for what is happening.
There is a ton of stuff about the ability to set up committees to make decisions but I can not see how that would resolve the problem.
So it’s still down to complete the season or void it, there is no way that they can do anything else.
I am also wondering if this could be the opportunity for some sort of fragmentation or breakaway league to occur.
This virus is already changing the way we live, and there is some truly terrifying behaviour going on.....reading the premier league rules!! 😜
Post by: algy on March 14, 2020, 06:51:21 AM
With the escalation of this virus, I can't see all clubs being free of it until well into the Autumn or early winter. Mass gatherings will be banned for most of the year.I'm of the same mind. There's no chance we're starting the season in August. The clubs will want a month at least before the season starts since none of the players will have trained as a squad in months. I think an October start is bloody optimistic as it stands.
Post by: frank black on March 14, 2020, 07:14:56 AM
Play the remainder of this season out and defer next season 12 months.
Post by: Drummond on March 14, 2020, 07:39:10 AM
Trying to decide winners, losers, promotion and relegation is fraught with difficulty because it's never a specific science and any lawyer worth their salt will be able to prove it.
I think Liverpool are the only team in the 92 that could argue a case, and they could be awarded something for their achievement, say a new flag or something.
Post by: sid1964 on March 14, 2020, 08:05:14 AM
To be honest I could not careless. I am hoping that in 4 months that I still have a job, there will be lots of business going bust, and that everyone I know is still healthy.
Post by: SamTheMouse on March 14, 2020, 08:14:44 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 14, 2020, 08:23:51 AM
What that date is will be up for debate but if I had to guess it’d be 30th June.
Post by: Mister E on March 14, 2020, 08:37:02 AM
Post by: Baldy on March 14, 2020, 08:38:41 AM
If the 2020/2021 season starts in August 2020, the corresponding fixtures that could not be played this season would effectively be six pointers. Effectively having two league tables running parallel at the same time. As an example, If Villa beat Chelsea at Villa Park next season, we get three points for this season and three points for next season.
To simplify matters, all remaining fixtures not played this season could be the first ones scheduled for next season. We will then have a better picture of what the 2019/2020 season would have ended like. Liverpool (probably) can then be awarded the title and the clubs in the relegation positions can take a sigh of relief.
Monetary wise, all promotion and relegation payments should be abandoned for this season and this money spread evenly between all the clubs in each league plus the payment for each clubs league position as per the 13th March 2020. Next season the payments can revert back to normal.
Two parallel tables would double the entertainment for next season, make up for lost entertainment this season, give us a clearer picture of what this season would have ended up like and avoid court room battles for evermore!!!
Unusual times warrant unusual measures and avoids writing off this season altogether.
Just a thought.
::)
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 14, 2020, 08:42:48 AM
If it goes on too long the solution is simple and we won’t like it.
Play the remainder of this season out and defer next season 12 months.
I doubt it. That won’t work for broadcasters, player contracts etc.
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 08:43:22 AM
If we are relegated then we get what we deserve for being so shit for most of the season - Liverpool deserve to be crowned champions
To be honest I could not careless. I am hoping that in 4 months that I still have a job, there will be lots of business going bust, and that everyone I know is still healthy.
I really cannot accept that conclusion. How do you get what you deserve before you've achieved or failed?
Did we not deserve to be promoted last season because if a snap shot was taken in March 2019, we wouldn't be in the top 6?
Post by: Richard E on March 14, 2020, 08:44:55 AM
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 08:45:55 AM
Why is everyone talking about the prospect of lots of really expensive litigation as if it’s a bad thing?
This man gets it.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 14, 2020, 08:47:39 AM
I’m no fan of a Liverpool but nobody can say hand on heart they don’t deserve to win the league surely?
Happy to oblige.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 08:50:32 AM
I’m no fan of a Liverpool but nobody can say hand on heart they don’t deserve to win the league surely?
Happy to oblige.
Hand on heart here.
Post by: Richard E on March 14, 2020, 08:52:28 AM
Post by: The Edge on March 14, 2020, 08:53:37 AM
We invented this fucking league. Our rules.I wish there was a like button for this comment.
Post by: The Edge on March 14, 2020, 08:59:27 AM
Works for me. And to compensate those in the play off positions maybe they could all start the season with +6 points?I don't see how you can relegate from some divisions but not others. Relegated clubs will just point to divisions with no relegation and you are into the minefield.
And you can't say we'd definitely lose to Chelsea, Watford have won 1 in 7, a 3-0 battering of the best side in the country.
It's such a legal minefield i'm really glad I don't have to try to work out what to do if this carries on for months.
Yes I agree.
So to tweak it, I would just allow 2 up from each EFL division.
Relegation numbers changed accordingly the following season in order to bring each division back to the numbers it had this season
EFL rules prescribe that all disputes are dealt with pursuant to S5 of the Arbitration Act 1996:
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-9--arbitration/
So in my scenario, the only issue would be if the play off contenders in the Championship decided that they wanted to challenge a/the decision to do away with the play offs for this season only.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 09:40:23 AM
Anything else is too complicated.
Post by: phantom limb on March 14, 2020, 09:46:32 AM
Post by: algy on March 14, 2020, 09:52:39 AM
If the fixtures can't be completed, the various leagues will take the simplest path - voiding the season.Yeah, I think it'll be a binary thing - complete the season or void it.
Anything else is too complicated.
One possibility might be to play the remaining fixtures in Autumn, then run the next couple of seasons from February to October to fit in with the World Cup in Qatar.
Post by: Dave P on March 14, 2020, 09:54:18 AM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on March 14, 2020, 09:59:13 AM
Works for me. And to compensate those in the play off positions maybe they could all start the season with +6 points?I don't see how you can relegate from some divisions but not others. Relegated clubs will just point to divisions with no relegation and you are into the minefield.
And you can't say we'd definitely lose to Chelsea, Watford have won 1 in 7, a 3-0 battering of the best side in the country.
It's such a legal minefield i'm really glad I don't have to try to work out what to do if this carries on for months.
Yes I agree.
So to tweak it, I would just allow 2 up from each EFL division.
Relegation numbers changed accordingly the following season in order to bring each division back to the numbers it had this season
EFL rules prescribe that all disputes are dealt with pursuant to S5 of the Arbitration Act 1996:
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-9--arbitration/
So in my scenario, the only issue would be if the play off contenders in the Championship decided that they wanted to challenge a/the decision to do away with the play offs for this season only.
Or, as Brassneck said, the teams in the championship play off places could be given the parachute payments that would’ve otherwise been paid to the teams relegated from the PL. Seemed like a good idea to me.
Post by: FrankyH on March 14, 2020, 10:00:59 AM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on March 14, 2020, 10:04:31 AM
If the fixtures can't be completed, the various leagues will take the simplest path - voiding the season.Yeah, I think it'll be a binary thing - complete the season or void it.
Anything else is too complicated.
One possibility might be to play the remaining fixtures in Autumn, then run the next couple of seasons from February to October to fit in with the World Cup in Qatar.
Ok in theory but what then happens in the 8 month period following the end of the World Cup and the start of the following season in August 2023?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 14, 2020, 10:04:46 AM
If the fixtures can't be completed, the various leagues will take the simplest path - voiding the season.
Anything else is too complicated.
In disaster movie terms, it seems many are going with a The Day After Tomorrow scenario, in that it's all quite a bit shit for relatively not that long, then it stops, we let out a collective "phew, thank **** that's over", and then get to plough on as if the thing hadn't happened. I think we need to start planning for more of a game-changing 28 Days Later, in that we could be looking at a very different world and way of life almost immediately, while hoping it'll be more like an everything's samey but everything's different Shaun Of The Dead.
Ultimately I believe it'll be voided, it's only a question of when that decision is made and who they can find brave enough to push out in front of the watching world to announce it.
Post by: algy on March 14, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
If it works out, we could just stick with February-October seasons and play the World Cup or Euros over Christmas.If the fixtures can't be completed, the various leagues will take the simplest path - voiding the season.Yeah, I think it'll be a binary thing - complete the season or void it.
Anything else is too complicated.
One possibility might be to play the remaining fixtures in Autumn, then run the next couple of seasons from February to October to fit in with the World Cup in Qatar.
Ok in theory but what then happens in the 8 month period following the end of the World Cup and the start of the following season in August 2023?
If it doesn't, there's a good 3 years to work out an alternative. For example, you could slowly transition back to an August-May season, or play a one-off competition.
Post by: sid1964 on March 14, 2020, 10:40:53 AM
I think we may be disappointed at the out come.
Let’s not forget whatever decision is made will affect the outcome of every professional football league in Britain.
If we were in the champions league spots, there is no way we would want
the league to be classed as null and void, there are a lot of powerful clubs that will have more of a say in the outcome of this season than us!
This maybe the opportunity for them to put there European league in place
Post by: themossman on March 14, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
Works for me. And to compensate those in the play off positions maybe they could all start the season with +6 points?I don't see how you can relegate from some divisions but not others. Relegated clubs will just point to divisions with no relegation and you are into the minefield.
And you can't say we'd definitely lose to Chelsea, Watford have won 1 in 7, a 3-0 battering of the best side in the country.
It's such a legal minefield i'm really glad I don't have to try to work out what to do if this carries on for months.
Yes I agree.
So to tweak it, I would just allow 2 up from each EFL division.
Relegation numbers changed accordingly the following season in order to bring each division back to the numbers it had this season
EFL rules prescribe that all disputes are dealt with pursuant to S5 of the Arbitration Act 1996:
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-9--arbitration/
So in my scenario, the only issue would be if the play off contenders in the Championship decided that they wanted to challenge a/the decision to do away with the play offs for this season only.
Or, as Brassneck said, the teams in the championship play off places could be given the parachute payments that would’ve otherwise been paid to the teams relegated from the PL. Seemed like a good idea to me.
I doubt very much they’d be happy with that. They’ll have missed out on the chance to cement a place in the pl or at worst a year of Sky money and the staggered parachute payments post relegation. No comparison.
Post by: exigo on March 14, 2020, 10:45:33 AM
If the fixtures can't be completed, the various leagues will take the simplest path - voiding the season.
Anything else is too complicated.
In disaster movie terms, it seems many are going with a The Day After Tomorrow scenario, in that it's all quite a bit shit for relatively not that long, then it stops, we let out a collective "phew, thank **** that's over", and then get to plough on as if the thing hadn't happened. I think we need to start planning for more of a game-changing 28 Days Later, in that we could be looking at a very different world and way of life almost immediately, while hoping it'll be more like an everything's samey but everything's different Shaun Of The Dead.
Ultimately I believe it'll be voided, it's only a question of when that decision is made and who they can find brave enough to push out in front of the watching world to announce it.
So you're saying we should all go down the Winchester and watch reruns of our glorious home wins over a pint?
Post by: phantom limb on March 14, 2020, 10:46:47 AM
Post by: exigo on March 14, 2020, 10:47:57 AM
Post by: themossman on March 14, 2020, 10:50:34 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 14, 2020, 10:57:38 AM
True. There’s a sense of fairness in this as well behind the technicalities. Could we really argue if we went down based on this season’s overall performance? Do we deserve a place in the pl more than the top 2 in the championship? Much as I don’t like it, I’d say no and no.
Absolutely we deserve to stay up every bit as much as any other club at the bottom and certainly more than anyone in the Championship.
Post by: exigo on March 14, 2020, 10:57:54 AM
Norwich v Leeds
Us v The Carrier Bags
Would make last year's play off semi finals look like friendlies.
Post by: myf on March 14, 2020, 10:58:24 AM
True. There’s a sense of fairness in this as well behind the technicalities. Could we really argue if we went down based on this season’s overall performance? Do we deserve a place in the pl more than the top 2 in the championship? Much as I don’t like it, I’d say no and no.
with a game in hand and a quarter of the season to go we fully deserve a place, and we earned our place last year at the expense of Leeds and the Albion. Don't be so soft
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 14, 2020, 10:59:10 AM
True. There’s a sense of fairness in this as well behind the technicalities. Could we really argue if we went down based on this season’s overall performance? Do we deserve a place in the pl more than the top 2 in the championship? Much as I don’t like it, I’d say no and no.
Well that’s kind of arbitrary though. It’s comparing apples and oranges, the top 2 in the Championship are playing much poorer opposition week in week out. If they had played the exact same fixtures as us would they have more points? Maybe not.
Don’t get me wrong we’ve been poor a lot, but we’re two points from moving out of the bottom 3 with a game in hand. It would be completely unfair to say we should go down because we’re in the bottom three now.
Post by: mr underhill on March 14, 2020, 11:01:54 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 14, 2020, 11:06:29 AM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 14, 2020, 11:10:51 AM
Games behind closed doors or standings as they are are unfair and shit on the integrity of the standings. If the season can't be finished then the only thing to do is void it.
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 11:15:33 AM
Someone’s going to be upset, whatever happens. It’s unavoidable.
Agreed, somebody will be. The important thing now, is that it's not us.
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 11:18:47 AM
True. There’s a sense of fairness in this as well behind the technicalities. Could we really argue if we went down based on this season’s overall performance? Do we deserve a place in the pl more than the top 2 in the championship? Much as I don’t like it, I’d say no and no.
I think you'll find more consensus with that view amongst our neighbours!
Honestly, we're 90 minutes against Sheffield United from being out the bottom 3. We then have a quarter of the season to finish anywhere from bottom to mid table.
I said this before to somebody else and it apes PWS; by your logic this time last year we did not deserve to go up.
Post by: Legion on March 14, 2020, 11:19:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51876162
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 14, 2020, 11:25:48 AM
True. There’s a sense of fairness in this as well behind the technicalities. Could we really argue if we went down based on this season’s overall performance? Do we deserve a place in the pl more than the top 2 in the championship? Much as I don’t like it, I’d say no and no.
Firstly i know there are a lot bigger things going on than promotion and relegation in football, people’s lives and livelihoods are at risk.
But as this is a football thread, I cannot understand this comment at all. We’ve been rubbish for large parts of this season and have going through a particularly bad run lately, but there is/was still nearly 1/3 of the season left to play. Why do we deserve to going down more than Norwich, Bournemouth, Watford, West Ham and Brighton?? All of their form is as bad ir nearly as bad as ours and if we won our game in hand, we’d be above 3 of them.
We’ll have to see how things progress over coming weeks, but I think like the public in general footie players will get this at differing times, meaning the season will be unfinishable. Start again in August. There you go.
Post by: Pete3206 on March 14, 2020, 11:27:04 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 14, 2020, 11:27:15 AM
Post by: themossman on March 14, 2020, 11:36:51 AM
True. There’s a sense of fairness in this as well behind the technicalities. Could we really argue if we went down based on this season’s overall performance? Do we deserve a place in the pl more than the top 2 in the championship? Much as I don’t like it, I’d say no and no.
Firstly i know there are a lot bigger things going on than promotion and relegation in football, people’s lives and livelihoods are at risk.
But as this is a football thread, I cannot understand this comment at all. We’ve been rubbish for large parts of this season and have going through a particularly bad run lately, but there is/was still nearly 1/3 of the season left to play. Why do we deserve to going down more than Norwich, Bournemouth, Watford, West Ham and Brighton?? All of their form is as bad ir nearly as bad as ours and if we won our game in hand, we’d be above 3 of them.
We’ll have to see how things progress over coming weeks, but I think like the public in general footie players will get this at differing times, meaning the season will be unfinishable. Start again in August. There you go.
I’m playing devil’s advocate a bit. But it does strike me there are a lot more posters happy with us staying up on a bizarre technicality than there were posters arguing we were going to stay up on merit after the Leicester game. It just feels a little bit, I dunno, desperate.
Imo the game in hand is a little bit of a red herring because of our form and average points per game.
I don’t like it any more than anyone else by the way.
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 11:41:40 AM
Now when has that ever happened I wonder...
Post by: simboy on March 14, 2020, 11:42:08 AM
And in another parallel universe ....
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on March 14, 2020, 11:42:33 AM
what are all those tossers on Talkshite going to do now there is no sport?
Interview with Ahmed El Ghazi coming up. Seriously. I heard it advertised whilst driving this morning. My first thought was that they must be struggling for content already.
Post by: themossman on March 14, 2020, 11:44:52 AM
Post by: themossman on March 14, 2020, 11:48:01 AM
The way out of it is to promote Dirty Leeds and the Tesco's and make it a 22 team Premiership. Promote top two in Division one to the Championship etc. Use the money that would have been paid as parachute payments to support the clubs in the Championship and other leagues [average receipts for home games paid out per missed home game], the rest distributed amongst the clubs equally. Start again in August, 5 down three up. Accept doesn't help the local businesses relying on the revenue from footfall around the games but it's a start
And in another parallel universe ....
Some version of that seems the fairest thing to me as well.
Throwing parachute money at Leeds and stripes would be countered with arguments about how much much money (eg) Swansea made from promotion.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 14, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Never thought I’d read that on H&V, never mind write it.
Post by: Legion on March 14, 2020, 11:56:18 AM
Post by: Billy Walker on March 14, 2020, 11:57:23 AM
True. There’s a sense of fairness in this as well behind the technicalities. Could we really argue if we went down based on this season’s overall performance? Do we deserve a place in the pl more than the top 2 in the championship? Much as I don’t like it, I’d say no and no.
Yes we do deserve a place more that the EFL current top two. We got promoted fairly and squarely by completing a full season in the Championship last year and we now sit in the Premier League, a game in hand, and thirty points still to play for.
Post by: simboy on March 14, 2020, 11:59:04 AM
The way out of it is to promote Dirty Leeds and the Tesco's and make it a 22 team Premiership. Promote top two in Division one to the Championship etc. Use the money that would have been paid as parachute payments to support the clubs in the Championship and other leagues [average receipts for home games paid out per missed home game], the rest distributed amongst the clubs equally. Start again in August, 5 down three up. Accept doesn't help the local businesses relying on the revenue from footfall around the games but it's a start
And in another parallel universe ....
Some version of that seems the fairest thing to me as well.
Throwing parachute money at Leeds and stripes would be countered with arguments about how much much money (eg) Swansea made from promotion.
There will be a lot of clubs go to the wall because the league is suspended or cancelled.
Post by: phantom limb on March 14, 2020, 11:59:14 AM
Some of the new players have had a crash course on how big a step up in competition this is, and I feel if we can add to the squad while retaining our best players we could actually start to become competitive again. We need to collectively learn from the numerous mistakes we’ve made this season, in recruitment, formation, game management, and go back to basics.
Whether Dean stays on or not, I don’t know. Ultimately it would be up to the owners but while he certainly can be blamed for some stuff I don’t think it’s entirely his fault how we’ve struggled. He will have learned a lot as well I would imagine. Also it would depend on who else is available, generally our recruitment of managers for the last decade has been abysmal.
Post by: Brassneck on March 14, 2020, 12:07:50 PM
Works for me. And to compensate those in the play off positions maybe they could all start the season with +6 points?I don't see how you can relegate from some divisions but not others. Relegated clubs will just point to divisions with no relegation and you are into the minefield.
And you can't say we'd definitely lose to Chelsea, Watford have won 1 in 7, a 3-0 battering of the best side in the country.
It's such a legal minefield i'm really glad I don't have to try to work out what to do if this carries on for months.
Yes I agree.
So to tweak it, I would just allow 2 up from each EFL division.
Relegation numbers changed accordingly the following season in order to bring each division back to the numbers it had this season
EFL rules prescribe that all disputes are dealt with pursuant to S5 of the Arbitration Act 1996:
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-9--arbitration/
So in my scenario, the only issue would be if the play off contenders in the Championship decided that they wanted to challenge a/the decision to do away with the play offs for this season only.
Or, as Brassneck said, the teams in the championship play off places could be given the parachute payments that would’ve otherwise been paid to the teams relegated from the PL. Seemed like a good idea to me.
I doubt very much they’d be happy with that. They’ll have missed out on the chance to cement a place in the pl or at worst a year of Sky money and the staggered parachute payments post relegation. No comparison.
There's a difference between a (25%) chance of cementing a place in the PL and actually earning one. Of course they will moan but what are the alternatives? You can't give them extra points next season because every other team in the division will kick off. Parachute payments are huge for the first 2 years - 3 lots divided by 4 teams is not to be sniffed at.
Nobody is claiming they are going to be happy but out of everything, the play offs are going to be the first thing to be abandoned because we won't have the time to play them.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
If they don't void it, the fairest middle ground would be to have a promotion/relegation play-off.
Norwich v Leeds
Us v The Carrier Bags
Would make last year's play off semi finals look like friendlies.
Why put us in there? They've no way of knowing that we couldn't have beaten Sheffield United in our game in hand. You can't punish us for making the League Cup Final.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2020, 12:23:02 PM
That would not however justify relegating us as there is still 10 games to go.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 14, 2020, 12:23:05 PM
I doubt the Premier league (or the teams in it) will favour adding more teams, even for just one season.
You never know what UEFA might yet decide, they could end up not playing next season's competitions and free up loads of midweek dates. We're arguing about whether or not we'd deserve to be relegated, but should this situation be replicated continent-wide, there'll be some almighty rows about who qualifies for what if national competitions don't get completed.
Or bin the domestic cups.
Post by: frank black on March 14, 2020, 01:09:29 PM
Post by: gpbarr on March 14, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
Post by: Legion on March 14, 2020, 01:17:04 PM
Post by: sid1964 on March 14, 2020, 01:23:31 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 14, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
I agree with adding the 2 top teams in the Championship and having a 22 team League next season. Apparently that is currently being discussed by the PL as a favourable option. Liverpool also to be declared champions.
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 01:43:38 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 14, 2020, 01:45:09 PM
Post by: frank black on March 14, 2020, 01:52:20 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 14, 2020, 01:56:22 PM
Leeds and Albion promoted and Liverpool declared champions doesn't sound very favourable to me. Null and void the season, now that is a favourable scenario.
Liverpool fans everywhere are fucking shitting it right now. It's magnificently hilarious. In a season they've walked the league it has literally taken an "Act of God" of equivalent to deny them. And if Leeds fans think the same in a season they were finally going up it only doubles the pleasure.
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 01:57:18 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 14, 2020, 02:07:53 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 14, 2020, 02:10:49 PM
This is interesting....Loads of "Liverpool 2020 Premier League Champions" t shirts on sale. A tad presumptious don't you think?
The price keeps dropping. Give it another week and they'll be a cheap bogroll replacement.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 14, 2020, 02:16:37 PM
They've no way of knowing that we couldn't have beaten Sheffield United in our game in hand.Exactly. Only we know that.
Post by: OCD on March 14, 2020, 02:19:43 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 14, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
West Brom and Leeds may moan, but they also have several games left and how many times have Leeds fallen apart? Nothing is a done deal, not even Liverpool winning the title, particularly if their last couple of weeks is anything to go by. Null and void.
Post by: spartacuss on March 14, 2020, 02:27:50 PM
I mean if season is declared null and void will that be the set president.
And that means the stats and results of matches this season are null and void?
Players goals and assists aren't recognised ?
Jack Grealish record of most premier losses scrapped for example.
Dean Smith win %?
There is a precedent. During World War 2, there was a 'Wartime League' and a 'Wartime League Cup', but - for obvious reasons - consistent teams and players were impossible to maintain. As a result the record of teams' statistics etc. are not counted - whatever wins, individual player achievements occurred etc. - towards a club's history.
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on March 14, 2020, 02:30:08 PM
Let's say this season restarts in August/September after numerous false dawns.
How on earth are players going to keep match fit and motivated until then with no definite matches to play ?
Do they not get a holiday/rest period as normal ?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 14, 2020, 02:32:18 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 14, 2020, 02:33:51 PM
Let's say this season restarts in August/September after numerous false dawns.
How on earth are players going to keep match fit and motivated until then with no definite matches to play ?
Do they not get a holiday/rest period as normal ?
We have to think about the transfer window as well, along with the rest of Europe. Players out of contract is an interesting one too., as is loans ending and players returning to their parent clubs.
Post by: Border villan on March 14, 2020, 02:39:07 PM
If null and void then that should be the set president for all things Premier league .Will all the balti pies I have devoured be null and void on my waistline?
Talking fantasy football league - no winner
Football season long bets with friends or bookmakers.
That these are made null and void
Maybe even all football bets and ultimate FIFA gaming purchase in season could be refunded because season did not finish so that doesn't count ??
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 14, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
I don't think anybody would be that surprised if they did make them Champions. We've all had months to get used to the idea as it is.
If it happens, it happens. But let it never stop any of us from pointing out right to their faces that they did not win it, they were awarded it for no other reason than to stop them whining on about it for another thirty fucking years.
Post by: Legion on March 14, 2020, 03:02:17 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2020, 03:17:50 PM
Yes, there is going to be endless fun, yeh but you didn’t really win it did you, you know outright like?I don't think anybody would be that surprised if they did make them Champions. We've all had months to get used to the idea as it is.
If it happens, it happens. But let it never stop any of us from pointing out right to their faces that they did not win it, they were awarded it for no other reason than to stop them whining on about it for another thirty fucking years.
Post by: Legion on March 14, 2020, 03:18:30 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 14, 2020, 03:18:50 PM
I'd settle for that I think. '2019/20 will always have an asterisk next to it etc etc'I don't think anybody would be that surprised if they did make them Champions. We've all had months to get used to the idea as it is.
If it happens, it happens. But let it never stop any of us from pointing out right to their faces that they did not win it, they were awarded it for no other reason than to stop them whining on about it for another thirty fucking years.
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 14, 2020, 03:20:37 PM
You nearly won the league
And now you’re gonna believe us....
You nearly won the league
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 14, 2020, 03:27:55 PM
Interesting when they asked him about no relegation this season and promote the top 2 from the championship he was quickly enthused about that suggestion.
Can see that at least being put forward as a proposal in April or whenever the next crisis summit will take place so would be 22 team league and 5 would go down although no idea how you could re-align the schedule if this season overruns as now is a near certainty.
Can see prem doing it if as rumoured Bundesliga decides to reshape the league along those lines.
Post by: Villafirst on March 14, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 14, 2020, 03:43:12 PM
SSN have just had an interview with Richard Cramer, a leading Sports Lawyer. He said if the League restarts in April then it should be just about alright. Beyond that there will be no choice but to void the League.Did he say why that's the case?
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 03:43:23 PM
Post by: Des Little on March 14, 2020, 03:54:00 PM
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on March 14, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
Was flicking through the channels at lunchtime and was surprised Football focus was still on. They had an interview with Brighton CEO.
Interesting when they asked him about no relegation this season and promote the top 2 from the championship he was quickly enthused about that suggestion.
Can see that at least being put forward as a proposal in April or whenever the next crisis summit will take place so would be 22 team league and 5 would go down although no idea how you could re-align the schedule if this season overruns as now is a near certainty.
Can see prem doing it if as rumoured Bundesliga decides to reshape the league along those lines.
and why would the other clubs currently battling out at the top of the championship allow that to happen ?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 04:00:55 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 14, 2020, 04:08:20 PM
Was flicking through the channels at lunchtime and was surprised Football focus was still on. They had an interview with Brighton CEO.
Interesting when they asked him about no relegation this season and promote the top 2 from the championship he was quickly enthused about that suggestion.
Can see that at least being put forward as a proposal in April or whenever the next crisis summit will take place so would be 22 team league and 5 would go down although no idea how you could re-align the schedule if this season overruns as now is a near certainty.
Can see prem doing it if as rumoured Bundesliga decides to reshape the league along those lines.
and why would the other clubs currently battling out at the top of the championship allow that to happen ?
Ultimately whatever proposal knocked up in next six weeks ain't going to please everyone. Premier league will knock one up which will have less potential for mass court claims aswell.
Of course the frustrating thing is just a month back Leeds could hardly win a game and likes of Forest/Brentford were level on points or just a point or two behind them so would serve them right for all turning uselss at the same time and giving Leeds and Smethwick an easy promotion.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 04:19:06 PM
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 04:27:20 PM
Probably my Villa bias speaking.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 04:29:30 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2020, 04:32:46 PM
The more I think about it and unless this is over soon and it won’t be, Null and Void is the most likely way they can defend Law suits.
Post by: CT on March 14, 2020, 04:34:46 PM
Leeds and Albion promoted and Liverpool declared champions doesn't sound very favourable to me. Null and void the season, now that is a favourable scenario.
Liverpool fans everywhere are fucking shitting it right now. It's magnificently hilarious. In a season they've walked the league it has literally taken an "Act of God" of equivalent to deny them. And if Leeds fans think the same in a season they were finally going up it only doubles the pleasure.
...and if you think Albion fans are bitter now....
Post by: Des Little on March 14, 2020, 04:37:05 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 14, 2020, 04:38:16 PM
A global pandemic meaning the season shuts down so you don't actually win it on the pitch and you can't have a parade until months later.
It's quite amusing actually. Still won't be as hilarious as Leeds and Baggies being denied promotion though.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 14, 2020, 04:39:31 PM
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 04:44:59 PM
It isn't close.
It’s close enough for one of them to fuck it up.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 14, 2020, 04:52:47 PM
Post by: Dave P on March 14, 2020, 04:54:32 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 04:55:05 PM
It isn't close.
It’s close enough for one of them to fuck it up.
They already fucked it up and nobody took advantage. They're miles clear. As are Villa Ladies. Send them up.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 05:00:25 PM
It isn't close.
It’s close enough for one of them to fuck it up.
They already fucked it up and nobody took advantage. They're miles clear. As are Villa Ladies. Send them up.
Fulham (3rd) are 7 points behind the leaders. 9 games to go.
Post by: Zouch Villa on March 14, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 14, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 14, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
It’s not that close at the top of the Prem. It isn’t that close at the top of the championship. But have you seen the top of league 2? 5 points covering the top 5 teams with some having games in hand? What do you do here?
It's a 3 point gap from 2nd to 8th with the team in 8th (Wycombe) having a game in hand. How you sort that out I don't know. Also in league 2 Exeter only 3 points off auto spots, Cheltenham 4 points with a game in hand.
More I think about it more I reckon they'll have to void season. If we don't get playing again.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 05:15:29 PM
So they can definitely fuck up again and this time someone could take advantage. 6 points with 9 to play is fuck all, Wolves were 10 ahead with 8 to play and blew it.
Yes, they could fuck it up. But you have to finish the season somehow, and rewarding teams for points accumulated over eight months seems fairer than disregarding them entirely.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 05:17:25 PM
So they can definitely fuck up again and this time someone could take advantage. 6 points with 9 to play is fuck all, Wolves were 10 ahead with 8 to play and blew it.
Yes, they could fuck it up. But you have to finish the season somehow, and rewarding teams for points accumulated over eight months seems fairer than disregarding them entirely.
I guess you think it’s fair to relegate Villa then 😂
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 05:19:04 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 14, 2020, 05:24:40 PM
I realise this is 10 minutes after saying they'll have to void the season. I'm not sure what to think really, this no sport is hitting me hard!
Post by: Dave P on March 14, 2020, 05:26:21 PM
No, we have a game in hand, if we won that we would be out of the bottom three. I think it is fair to promote Villa Ladies. Of all the available options, the 22 team league seems the fairest way of doing things.
But like I said earlier, what do you do in leagues 1 and 2 where it’s really close? It’s a minefield and the ‘fairest’ thing to do is void the season. The integrity of all remaining league and cup football for this season is already compromised. Peoples livelihoods have got to be thought about. Imagine the staff jobs lost at a premier league club if they are relegated on essentially a technicality?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 05:27:36 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 05:30:39 PM
No, we have a game in hand, if we won that we would be out of the bottom three. I think it is fair to promote Villa Ladies. Of all the available options, the 22 team league seems the fairest way of doing things.
But like I said earlier, what do you do in leagues 1 and 2 where it’s really close? It’s a minefield and the ‘fairest’ thing to do is void the season. The integrity of all remaining league and cup football for this season is already compromised. Peoples livelihoods have got to be thought about. Imagine the staff jobs lost at a premier league club if they are relegated on essentially a technicality?
That's why you don't relegate anyone, just have more relegations next season. Teams such as Villa Women should be rewarded for their efforts this season, we have already been accumulating players based on being a top flight club next season, why should their efforts be ignored?
Post by: garyellis on March 14, 2020, 05:34:13 PM
And even that is probably optimistic.
The April date was just to give the necessary bodies time to consider the options and make some well meaning statements.
If no more football can be played there will be an effort to find an agreement on the way forward to avoid a litigation fest. That will mean some serious financial sweeteners.
Not a cat in hells chance they will relegate teams that haven't completed their fixtures or be able to reach any agreement to do so.
Promotion maybe different if common ground and a suitable financial incentive can convince those in the mix but the easy option is status quo and void the season.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 14, 2020, 05:45:45 PM
But European competition starts in July. Season needs to be finished by then so you know who England's representatives are.
European competition doesn't have to start in July and in the circumstances surely it's more sensible to delay that.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 05:47:30 PM
Post by: Dave P on March 14, 2020, 05:51:40 PM
Post by: mr underhill on March 14, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 14, 2020, 05:59:21 PM
Post by: charlatan on March 14, 2020, 06:12:02 PM
OTOH they could wait until next season and give them two deductions at once!
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Post by: Dave P on March 14, 2020, 06:53:07 PM
Bolton are 21 points from safety, if the season is abandoned do they get the points deduction again next season?
They’ll have to otherwise they haven’t been punished.
Post by: aev on March 14, 2020, 06:54:33 PM
Post by: Dave P on March 14, 2020, 06:55:35 PM
Post by: Border villan on March 14, 2020, 06:58:24 PM
UEFA suggesting euros to be moved to December to allow leagues to finish.Where has this come from?
They are discussing/deciding? On Tuesday.
Post by: aev on March 14, 2020, 07:20:58 PM
UEFA suggesting euros to be moved to December to allow leagues to finish.Where has this come from?
They are discussing/deciding? On Tuesday.
Daily Telegraph
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 07:36:57 PM
UEFA suggesting euros to be moved to December to allow leagues to finish.Where has this come from?
They are discussing/deciding? On Tuesday.
Daily Telegraph
Should give us time to bolster the team!
Post by: algy on March 14, 2020, 08:08:36 PM
Post by: Brassneck on March 14, 2020, 08:13:01 PM
I'm wondering whether it will be decided by the members (the clubs) in a vote?
If this is the case, there is a good chance that the majority of PL clubs would vote to void the league (Bottom 6 guaranteed to do so) - Only discussions between the 2 bodies would pave the way for a 22 team league next season. Certainly none of the top clubs would want 4 more league games.
Post by: Brassneck on March 14, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
Any amendment to the rules, relating to matters affecting the organisation and management of the league must be made by resolution (Article 16). The general requirement is a majority of 2/3 (as is the EFL), so probably requires 14 out of 20 clubs to vote in favor. (Article 27). The powers of the board of directors (of the PL) is covered in Articles 47-50. Basically, they are powers of management and administering/applying the rules set out by it's members
I think this will have to go to the vote of it's members - Am I being greedy in wanting Leeds & the muppets to stay down?
Personally, I can't see many teams in the PL wanting a 22 team division. The top teams because of the fixture pile up and the bottom ones because 5 down makes it more difficult to survive. You would only need one of Leeds or the muppets to have a good season and you'd be looking to finish ahead of 5 of the rest.
Post by: WassallVillain on March 14, 2020, 08:48:30 PM
- Only discussions between the 2 bodies would pave the way for a 22 team league next season. Certainly none of the top clubs would want 4 more league games.
Why not? Easily possible to fit more games in if 2021 season started early which could be accommodated if the euro are cancelled.
Post by: Brassneck on March 14, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
- Only discussions between the 2 bodies would pave the way for a 22 team league next season. Certainly none of the top clubs would want 4 more league games.
Why not? Easily possible to fit more games in if 2021 season started early which could be accommodated if the euro are cancelled.
For the reasons I've posted.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 14, 2020, 08:55:51 PM
Post by: frank black on March 14, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
Post by: Richard E on March 14, 2020, 09:02:45 PM
The more I think about it the more I wonder how I’m going to cope without football of any kind until August (earliest I guess 🤷♂️)
Subbuteo, FIFA, alcohol, football DVDs.
Post by: Brassneck on March 14, 2020, 09:15:57 PM
Is there anything in the PL or FA or FL rulebooks which indicate a specific date by which the season must be completed?
There are references to it being completed within the year from a particular clubs first game.
Problem is, amendments can be made by way of resolution.
Post by: john2710 on March 14, 2020, 09:20:38 PM
The question is not if the season can be restarted in April / May, it's whether next season can start in August & whether there's a risk of a second wave. If they think next season can start / finish OK, the only logical solution is to declare this season void & everything is reset.
UEFA will decide. The PL will have to fall in line with the rest of Europe.
Post by: aev on March 14, 2020, 09:24:16 PM
Post by: charlatan on March 14, 2020, 09:28:32 PM
The Noses were cleared.
Cheers. Missed that.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on March 14, 2020, 09:35:24 PM
Post by: Richard E on March 14, 2020, 09:39:28 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on March 14, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
The key feature of any solution, regardless of time scale, is that in order for it to be fair it has to guarantee that Aston Villa stay up.Richard Masters was heard to say
Post by: walsall villain on March 14, 2020, 10:00:03 PM
The key feature of any solution, regardless of time scale, is that in order for it to be fair it has to guarantee that Aston Villa stay up.I’m now seriously thinking this is possible. I’m going to be so pissed off when it doesn’t happen
Post by: frank black on March 14, 2020, 10:07:41 PM
I reckon they will propose to finish the leagues in the summer.
2021?
Post by: adrenachrome on March 14, 2020, 10:24:14 PM
Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 14, 2020, 10:30:16 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 14, 2020, 10:40:39 PM
Fans too will realize that as health and families matter first .
Decisions to make null and void will have to be put in place in my view because for the benefit of health and fairness the circumstances mean the football season can't finish and that means nothing can be resolved.
Those that 'miss out' or don't get the outcome they want ie Titles or promotions is really negligible when dealing with something way bigger than football.
The real concern is the health of people and footballers and their families are people first and foremost .
The closure of the non essential places and shut downs is coming so how is football going to be the only thing that will be re opening while the rest of us stay at home .
Can't see anything other than a closure of the season.
Stay safe everyone
Post by: The Edge on March 14, 2020, 10:50:50 PM
Regardless of how long it takes or would take to complete the domestic fixtures of the 2019/2020 season that is what should happen, and that needs to take priority over all other football. And then it's taken from there. The Euros should go, and if needs be the champions league and europa league too. The 2022 world cup in Kuwait is bollocks anyway, from the sporting perspective. It wouldn't be missed, and not having it would provide a bit of space that will be much needed for any catch-up.As much as i hate the fact that the World Cup will be held in Kuwait 2022 they have spent billions on stadium and infrastructure. They would bankrupt FIFA with lawsuits if it were cancelled. Perhaps Blatter and his cronies could be forced to pay back some of the back handers they (ahem allegedly) took. That would be soooo sweet.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 14, 2020, 10:53:58 PM
With this in mind and Just in terms of football, I think we’ll end up hearing more than one announcement, a bit like a couple of days ago everything was going ahead this weekend, until Arteta gets diagnosed and then it’s all off. So I think they’ll continue to make positive noises and maybe even in a couple of weeks an announcement that the season will continue from early April onwards. But as that approaches and different players/coaches/staff of other clubs get diagnosed, the whole thing will come to a halt again, until eventually they realise they have to call the season off.
The completely sensible thing would be then to call the season null and void, and to start again in August when hopefully the dust has settled a bit, the only stumbling block to this is liverpool who are so far ahead, the premier league will have all sorts of headaches not giving them the league title, and I’m saying this as someone who really really dislikes Liverpool FC. If all the clubs can come to a grudging agreement that they get premier league title but everything else across the 4 divisions is status quo, that’s what I think will happen.
We are all in complete Unknown’s here, but death tolls rising, planes turning round mid journey and countries closing their borders, the idea of this football season every being completed is ludicrous.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 14, 2020, 11:25:36 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 14, 2020, 11:44:20 PM
Oliver Holt of the Daily Heil opines thusly:Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
He forgets that we have that game in hand on the others. A massive Trump card in our favour.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 14, 2020, 11:49:05 PM
R&B, if you missed it, there was a bit of a confab earlier around p52 of this thread, and we've found a mechanism to help many of us deal with the emotional fallout of 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' being 'awarded' the title.
😂 I’m already winding the Liverpool fans at work up!
Post by: Villafirst on March 14, 2020, 11:51:47 PM
- Only discussions between the 2 bodies would pave the way for a 22 team league next season. Certainly none of the top clubs would want 4 more league games.
Why not? Easily possible to fit more games in if 2021 season started early which could be accommodated if the euro are cancelled.
For the reasons I've posted.
In the grand scheme of things asking footballers to play a few extra games pales into insignificance compared to the huge challenges ahead in tackling COVID-19.
Post by: Brassneck on March 15, 2020, 12:12:42 AM
- Only discussions between the 2 bodies would pave the way for a 22 team league next season. Certainly none of the top clubs would want 4 more league games.
Why not? Easily possible to fit more games in if 2021 season started early which could be accommodated if the euro are cancelled.
For the reasons I've posted.
In the grand scheme of things asking footballers to play a few extra games pales into insignificance compared to the huge challenges ahead in tackling COVID-19.
What’s that got to do with the price of cheese?
We’re talking about why members would vote against increasing the numbers, that’s all.
Increasing the numbers has nothing to do with the virus and playing a few more games will not help fight the virus.
You have to keep things in perspective here. We’re discussing football decisions, not what is best for the virus. Playing extra games won’t help anyone other than the muppets and Leeds and that also pales into insignificance.
Post by: The Edge on March 15, 2020, 12:13:03 AM
We have a game in hand and anything is possible. The best result this season could be Watford 3 Liverpool 0.Oliver Holt of the Daily Heil opines thusly:Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
He forgets that we have that game in hand on the others. A massive Trump card in our favour.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2020, 12:37:35 AM
I don't see a way out of this which doesn't lead to the courts.
Which keeps pointing to Null and Void or complete the season.
If the latter is deemed unworkable then the Null and void option provides the least actionable option.
The Rules state how relegation Europe promotion is decided, if clubs can’t comply then there is not much the clubs can do about it.
There will have to be a settlement of the Broadcasting contracts which will not be simple.
Oliver Holt is a twat.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 15, 2020, 12:39:56 AM
Oliver Holt of the Daily Heil opines thusly:Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
We've known this for a long time. MON's best mate.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 15, 2020, 12:45:19 AM
We have a game in hand and anything is possible. The best result this season could be Watford 3 Liverpool 0.Oliver Holt of the Daily Heil opines thusly:Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
He forgets that we have that game in hand on the others. A massive Trump card in our favour.
Excellent point. And FWIW, despite my extremely low expectations for the rest of the season, I'd have bet the bank we'd win at home to Sheff Utd. Something about red & white stripes at Villa Park. We hate them. Ask Sunderland.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 15, 2020, 01:20:41 AM
Not as important as as lives being lost of course, but can definitely see a lot of frustration beginning to mount as the weeks tick by. As with anything, they need to be decisive and remove as much doubt as possible. Can't see the point of delaying the remaining games, as no one has the faintest clue when they could be played at this point. If the situation has become worse by April 3rd, then end the season then by either making it null and void or look at promoting teams as the tables stand.
Post by: Brassneck on March 15, 2020, 01:26:13 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 15, 2020, 01:34:23 AM
If you think the EFL clubs have it bad, watch some of the airlines start dropping like flies over the coming months. Same with pubs and restaurants.
Of course, but was specifically discussing the impact on football.
Post by: Brassneck on March 15, 2020, 01:53:45 AM
If you think the EFL clubs have it bad, watch some of the airlines start dropping like flies over the coming months. Same with pubs and restaurants.
Of course, but was specifically discussing the impact on football.
The impact is the same everywhere. There is nothing anyone can do.
Neither of the leagues (PL/EFL) can make a decision until all members have had 21 days notice (of a general meeting) - That is why there has been a 3 week suspension.
In 3 weeks time, we're going to be in a lot worse position than we are today. The season will be officially cancelled at the general meeting of 3 April.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 15, 2020, 01:59:50 AM
If you think the EFL clubs have it bad, watch some of the airlines start dropping like flies over the coming months. Same with pubs and restaurants.
Of course, but was specifically discussing the impact on football.
The impact is the same everywhere. There is nothing anyone can do.
Neither of the leagues (PL/EFL) can make a decision until all members have had 21 days notice (of a general meeting) - That is why there has been a 3 week suspension.
In 3 weeks time, we're going to be in a lot worse position than we are today. The season will be officially cancelled at the general meeting of 3 April.
Agree with all of that, but not sure if season will be cancelled on April 3rd or postponed another month and a decision made then.
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 15, 2020, 03:50:25 AM
We have a game in hand and anything is possible. The best result this season could be Watford 3 Liverpool 0.Oliver Holt of the Daily Heil opines thusly:Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
He forgets that we have that game in hand on the others. A massive Trump card in our favour.
Excellent point. And FWIW, despite my extremely low expectations for the rest of the season, I'd have bet the bank we'd win at home to Sheff Utd. Something about red & white stripes at Villa Park. We hate them. Ask Sunderland.
Pray then it’s not like Stoke. That moment in time where everything started to fall apart.
Post by: OzVilla on March 15, 2020, 04:44:57 AM
It takes 14 votes to carry a motion and no way will the clubs vote to relegate anybody based on the current standings, none whatsoever. The PL clubs have a track record if being conservative in their voting patterns and I can’t see this changing now over this.
The first thing the clubs will want to do is inject some certainty meaning they’ll set a date by which the season must be fully completed, probable deadline being 30 June 2020 as that’s when contracts expire and the traditional change over of one season to another occurs. Vote 1.
If this deadline is missed they’ll null/void the league (but may still hand Liverpool the title as their lead is just so large.) Vote 2.
Finally they’ll need to decide whether they’ll be prepared to expand the league and promote teams from the EFL based on current standings. Vote 3.
Whether we agree or not this is how I think it will end up working out.
Leeds, Albion and Uncle Tom Cobley can scream shout and threaten to sue all they like, the PL clubs are the only decision makers here as each equally having shares in the league only transferable on relegation. Whichever way the vote goes that’s basically the end of it.
Post by: itbrvilla on March 15, 2020, 06:35:42 AM
Southampton also have a good record against us.We have a game in hand and anything is possible. The best result this season could be Watford 3 Liverpool 0.Oliver Holt of the Daily Heil opines thusly:Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
He forgets that we have that game in hand on the others. A massive Trump card in our favour.
Excellent point. And FWIW, despite my extremely low expectations for the rest of the season, I'd have bet the bank we'd win at home to Sheff Utd. Something about red & white stripes at Villa Park. We hate them. Ask Sunderland.
Pray then it’s not like Stoke. That moment in time where everything started to fall apart.
Post by: algy on March 15, 2020, 06:47:36 AM
The first thing the clubs will want to do is inject some certainty meaning they’ll set a date by which the season must be fully completed, probable deadline being 30 June 2020 as that’s when contracts expire and the traditional change over of one season to another occurs. Vote 1.The one thing I'd say there is potentially, when it gets closer to 30th June, they might choose to extend it to 31st December if the UEFA announcement in the Euros is correct (post a few pages back).
I suspect the season won't be complete on 30th June myself. But if they play fixtures behind closed doors, as and when it's possible *maybe* they'll finish it soon enough that next season can go ahead almost as normal, maybe just with the odd alteration (more midweek rounds, fewer international friendlies/nations league games .. that sort of thing)
Post by: alanclare on March 15, 2020, 07:24:40 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/14/west-ham-karren-brady-calls-for-premier-league-cancellation-coronavirus?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 15, 2020, 07:35:23 AM
We have a game in hand and anything is possible. The best result this season could be Watford 3 Liverpool 0.Oliver Holt of the Daily Heil opines thusly:Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1290594655/OHM_bigger.jpg)Oliver Holt@OllieHolt22What a demented cuntflugle.
If resumption is not possible, freeze the league tables as they are now, give Liverpool the title, send Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth down and promote Leeds as champions. MoS column later.
He forgets that we have that game in hand on the others. A massive Trump card in our favour.
Excellent point. And FWIW, despite my extremely low expectations for the rest of the season, I'd have bet the bank we'd win at home to Sheff Utd. Something about red & white stripes at Villa Park. We hate them. Ask Sunderland.
Pray then it’s not like Stoke. That moment in time where everything started to fall apart.
They were in their yellow away kit.
Post by: Mister E on March 15, 2020, 07:57:02 AM
Thing is, all these supporters with vested interests (mainly Leeds and Liverpool fans ) are all pushing their preferred versions. As I understand it, this will be a simple vote taken solely by the PL clubs, that’s where the power resides in this process. Not sure anyone else gets much say.Yes, this is how I see it.
It takes 14 votes to carry a motion and no way will the clubs vote to relegate anybody based on the current standings, none whatsoever. The PL clubs have a track record if being conservative in their voting patterns and I can’t see this changing now over this.
The first thing the clubs will want to do is inject some certainty meaning they’ll set a date by which the season must be fully completed, probable deadline being 30 June 2020 as that’s when contracts expire and the traditional change over of one season to another occurs. Vote 1.
If this deadline is missed they’ll null/void the league (but may still hand Liverpool the title as their lead is just so large.) Vote 2.
Finally they’ll need to decide whether they’ll be prepared to expand the league and promote teams from the EFL based on current standings. Vote 3.
Whether we agree or not this is how I think it will end up working out.
Leeds, Albion and Uncle Tom Cobley can scream shout and threaten to sue all they like, the PL clubs are the only decision makers here as each equally having shares in the league only transferable on relegation. Whichever way the vote goes that’s basically the end of it.
Taking the season beyond June 30th is fraught with the sort of complexity that the Premier League would want avoid - contracts expiring, trasnfer window, etc.
They're a simple bunch and would want a simple solution, and one that disadvantages the least number of people in the club.
Post by: Dave P on March 15, 2020, 08:00:59 AM
I don't see a way out of this which doesn't lead to the courts.
Which keeps pointing to Null and Void or complete the season.
If the latter is deemed unworkable then the Null and void option provides the least actionable option.
The Rules state how relegation Europe promotion is decided, if clubs can’t comply then there is not much the clubs can do about it.
There will have to be a settlement of the Broadcasting contracts which will not be simple.
Oliver Holt is a twat.
What the premier league do is down to the decision of the premier league and nobody else. I imagine the agenda points on Thursday will include a) do we cancel the season (14/20 votes needed) b) do we crown Liverpool as champions (14/20) and c) do we relegate 3 clubs (14/20). Bitters and Leeds have zero say. European qualification will be a decision by UEFA based on coefficients if their competition goes ahead.
A similar meeting at the EFL will decide what they do but they don’t have the power to send teams up to the Premier League. A similar meeting at the FA will decide the fate of the FA Cup etc etc
Post by: aldridgeboy on March 15, 2020, 08:45:00 AM
Post by: aev on March 15, 2020, 08:52:29 AM
Isn’t there a chance that the clubs who aren’t in relegation spots, vote to relegate the current bottom three? Particularly the likes of West Ham ( despite what Karen Brady has said), Bournemouth, Brighton etc ?
I guess one of the issues with pure self interest is the potential for lawsuits from the 3 in the bottom spots as they stand.
Post by: aev on March 15, 2020, 08:57:38 AM
Post by: The Edge on March 15, 2020, 08:59:51 AM
Isn’t there a chance that the clubs who aren’t in relegation spots, vote to relegate the current bottom three? Particularly the likes of West Ham ( despite what Karen Brady has said), Bournemouth, Brighton etc ?And those votes would obviously be wiped out by us, Norwich & Watford. It would be massively unfair on us especially due to our game in hand. The top 11 would have no vested interest in creating such legal minefield for everyone involved. We could just as easily argue the validity of the clubs who gain the top 6 places. I'm pretty sure if it came to a vote they would agree to keep the current status quo. It's almost as probable that they would vote against promoting teams from the championship. There will be winners and losers but ultimately the power lies with the PL clubs.
Post by: ROBBO on March 15, 2020, 09:05:01 AM
Post by: Dave P on March 15, 2020, 09:09:18 AM
The league just bought themselves breathing space with the April 4 announcement, it gives them a few weeks to determine what action to take because no way is this Pandemic going to be over in a few weeks or even months, in that time a lot of clubs will be struggling to stay solvent. The worse thing the league could do is to let the uncertainty drag on, that will only lead to more difficulty.
Exactly. It’s in their best interests to make a quick, strong decision and look to compensate clubs in this situation.
Post by: Dave P on March 15, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Post by: Towser on March 15, 2020, 09:16:39 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/b2bhfs7/325-E0-EEE-333-A-4038-88-F6-0-E1-F66-DADAD2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b2bhfs7)
Post by: frank black on March 15, 2020, 09:56:12 AM
A pure cynical viewpoint here, buts what are the chances of a senior Villa, West Ham, Brighton, Bournemouth, Norwich or Watford official or a player saying they are ‘self isolating as a precautionary measure’ closer to the April 4th resumption to force a further delay?
I think it’s highly unlikely that there won’t be plenty of footballers and managers in isolation at this point anyway
Post by: Brassneck on March 15, 2020, 11:40:38 AM
The league just bought themselves breathing space with the April 4 announcement, it gives them a few weeks to determine what action to take because no way is this Pandemic going to be over in a few weeks or even months, in that time a lot of clubs will be struggling to stay solvent. The worse thing the league could do is to let the uncertainty drag on, that will only lead to more difficulty.
No - They have to give 21 days notice that an extraordinary general meeting is going to take place. However, they will all be talking as we speak regarding possibilities/options
Post by: Brassneck on March 15, 2020, 11:48:49 AM
Isn’t there a chance that the clubs who aren’t in relegation spots, vote to relegate the current bottom three? Particularly the likes of West Ham ( despite what Karen Brady has said), Bournemouth, Brighton etc ?
There is a chance but why would they do that? They probably have a better relationship with the bottom 3 than they do with the EFL clubs.
Hopefully, the only vote will be whether 2 teams come up, making it a 22 team league.
Post by: charlatan on March 15, 2020, 12:18:20 PM
If you think the EFL clubs have it bad, watch some of the airlines start dropping like flies over the coming months. Same with pubs and restaurants.
Of course, but was specifically discussing the impact on football.
The impact is the same everywhere. There is nothing anyone can do.
Neither of the leagues (PL/EFL) can make a decision until all members have had 21 days notice (of a general meeting) - That is why there has been a 3 week suspension.
In 3 weeks time, we're going to be in a lot worse position than we are today. The season will be officially cancelled at the general meeting of 3 April.
Agree with all of that, but not sure if season will be cancelled on April 3rd or postponed another month and a decision made then.
Surely any decision should not be made until it is clear when football can resume? If resuming in say September, voiding this season makes sense. OTOH if not resuming until next spring it would make more sense to complete the current season.
Post by: Brassneck on March 15, 2020, 12:28:11 PM
If you think the EFL clubs have it bad, watch some of the airlines start dropping like flies over the coming months. Same with pubs and restaurants.
Of course, but was specifically discussing the impact on football.
The impact is the same everywhere. There is nothing anyone can do.
Neither of the leagues (PL/EFL) can make a decision until all members have had 21 days notice (of a general meeting) - That is why there has been a 3 week suspension.
In 3 weeks time, we're going to be in a lot worse position than we are today. The season will be officially cancelled at the general meeting of 3 April.
Agree with all of that, but not sure if season will be cancelled on April 3rd or postponed another month and a decision made then.
Surely any decision should not be made until it is clear when football can resume? If resuming in say September, voiding this season makes sense. OTOH if not resuming until next spring it would make more sense to complete the current season.
I think it very likely that next season will be impacted but there are further cans of worms by suspending it further than May - Contracts will expire and loan deals also.
It would also be impossible to predict the situation in 12 months time.
Post by: algy on March 15, 2020, 12:55:20 PM
Was just thinking, what interest would Man Utd, Wolves or Sheffield United in keeping the table as it is? They've all reasonably good chances of getting in to the Fairs Cup/Champions Cup, but won't as things stand. The 3 clubs in relegation positions won't vote for it, and neither would Watford since we've got a game in hand over them and, depending on how it was dealt with, that could see then relegated.Isn’t there a chance that the clubs who aren’t in relegation spots, vote to relegate the current bottom three? Particularly the likes of West Ham ( despite what Karen Brady has said), Bournemouth, Brighton etc ?And those votes would obviously be wiped out by us, Norwich & Watford. It would be massively unfair on us especially due to our game in hand. The top 11 would have no vested interest in creating such legal minefield for everyone involved. We could just as easily argue the validity of the clubs who gain the top 6 places. I'm pretty sure if it came to a vote they would agree to keep the current status quo. It's almost as probable that they would vote against promoting teams from the championship. There will be winners and losers but ultimately the power lies with the PL clubs.
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 15, 2020, 01:09:26 PM
Post by: lennythekad on March 15, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
Post by: Dave P on March 15, 2020, 01:20:33 PM
Was just thinking, what interest would Man Utd, Wolves or Sheffield United in keeping the table as it is? They've all reasonably good chances of getting in to the Fairs Cup/Champions Cup, but won't as things stand. The 3 clubs in relegation positions won't vote for it, and neither would Watford since we've got a game in hand over them and, depending on how it was dealt with, that could see then relegated.Isn’t there a chance that the clubs who aren’t in relegation spots, vote to relegate the current bottom three? Particularly the likes of West Ham ( despite what Karen Brady has said), Bournemouth, Brighton etc ?And those votes would obviously be wiped out by us, Norwich & Watford. It would be massively unfair on us especially due to our game in hand. The top 11 would have no vested interest in creating such legal minefield for everyone involved. We could just as easily argue the validity of the clubs who gain the top 6 places. I'm pretty sure if it came to a vote they would agree to keep the current status quo. It's almost as probable that they would vote against promoting teams from the championship. There will be winners and losers but ultimately the power lies with the PL clubs.
But European qualification is not the decision of the Premier League. Certainly not this week. Like I said earlier, I think the voting amongst the 20 premier clubs will be
1. Do we void the season?
2. Do we award the title to Liverpool?
3. Do we relegate teams and allow other teams in?
I think the only outcome to avoid expensive legal action whilst keeping integrity is yes, yes and no. You could argue Liverpool could be caught but when the only team that could do it have effectively been charged with cheating this season, then I don’t think they’ll be much opposition.
any parachute payments can be given to the EFL for redistribution.
There is going to be collateral damage to this and many clubs left unhappy but to relegate / promote clubs based on guesswork is completely wrong.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 15, 2020, 01:24:23 PM
https://twitter.com/Dr_TonyXia/status/1239170274123116544
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 15, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
But if it's 3% of 40 million that's around 1.2 milion deaths . That would be scandalous, sickening and so sad.
I wouldn't care about football one bit if this is what's going to happen and I think football itself will have a long break maybe for at least a year if not longer because of the lost lives.
Please I hope vaccine can be found
Post by: Mister E on March 15, 2020, 02:20:44 PM
We're totally, completely fucked.Not what other news outlets are saying.
https://twitter.com/Dr_TonyXia/status/1239170274123116544
And, how long before the vaccine is commercially viable?
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2020, 02:23:13 PM
Not sure what you mean by commercially viable, if it’s about profit I don’t think that will come into it,if it is about production costs in scale that is economic viability.We're totally, completely fucked.Not what other news outlets are saying.
https://twitter.com/Dr_TonyXia/status/1239170274123116544
And, how long before the vaccine is commercially viable?
Post by: andyh on March 15, 2020, 04:01:09 PM
Of the virus If the talk is another 12-14 weeks that's June ish time when thing peak !! but no one knowsFFS.
But if it's 3% of 40 million that's around 1.2 milion deaths . That would be scandalous, sickening and so sad.
I wouldn't care about football one bit if this is what's going to happen and I think football itself will have a long break maybe for at least a year if not longer because of the lost lives.
Please I hope vaccine can be found
Get a grip.
Post by: Mister E on March 15, 2020, 04:39:17 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant: how long before producers are able to produce the vaccine in the apporpriate quantities to make a real difference.Not sure what you mean by commercially viable, if it’s about profit I don’t think that will come into it,if it is about production costs in scale that is economic viability.We're totally, completely fucked.Not what other news outlets are saying.
https://twitter.com/Dr_TonyXia/status/1239170274123116544
And, how long before the vaccine is commercially viable?
Post by: PeterWithe on March 15, 2020, 04:50:46 PM
We're totally, completely fucked.
https://twitter.com/Dr_TonyXia/status/1239170274123116544
I’m unable to form a view on the veracity of this claim until I’ve seen the scientists shoes.
Post by: frank black on March 15, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant: how long before producers are able to produce the vaccine in the apporpriate quantities to make a real difference.Not sure what you mean by commercially viable, if it’s about profit I don’t think that will come into it,if it is about production costs in scale that is economic viability.We're totally, completely fucked.Not what other news outlets are saying.
https://twitter.com/Dr_TonyXia/status/1239170274123116544
And, how long before the vaccine is commercially viable?
Plus how long to go through trials with animals and humans...end of this year perhaps
Post by: brian green on March 15, 2020, 05:04:09 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 15, 2020, 05:53:28 PM
It's too soon to be making estimates so in that respect I get your sentiment .Of the virus If the talk is another 12-14 weeks that's June ish time when thing peak !! but no one knowsFFS.
But if it's 3% of 40 million that's around 1.2 milion deaths . That would be scandalous, sickening and so sad.
I wouldn't care about football one bit if this is what's going to happen and I think football itself will have a long break maybe for at least a year if not longer because of the lost lives.
Please I hope vaccine can be found
Get a grip.
Though I find it alarming the 2% - 3% mortality rate especially if cases are rising in UK- like they have in every other country.
I don't want to be alarmist most want the possibility of recovery soon and things back to a regular way though it looks more like a long way off and football like it not will be on back burner.
Just how I currently seeing things .
Post by: andyh on March 15, 2020, 05:54:42 PM
Was it already available/viable as a recognised vaccine during that outbreak ?
Post by: Richard E on March 15, 2020, 06:00:51 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on March 15, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
How come tamiflu was issued so quickly during last flu epidemic?
Was it already available/viable as a recognised vaccine during that outbreak ?
The flu vaccine just requires tweaking each year to match the particular strain rather than starting from scratch and the production lines and distribution networks are primed and in place. There is also a defined strategy to prioritise at risk groups and health workers.
Post by: Ads on March 15, 2020, 06:15:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 15, 2020, 06:16:51 PM
Post by: OCD on March 15, 2020, 07:01:45 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 15, 2020, 07:12:48 PM
Quote
The Italian Football Federation has called for the postponement of Euro 2020 to give time to complete the Serie A season, which has been suspended because of coronavirus.
Federation president Gabriele Gravina says the idea will be put to Uefa at an emergency meeting on Tuesday.
Serie A was suspended last Tuesday, with Italy the European country worst affected by the virus.
"We will propose that Uefa postpone the European Championship," Gravina said.
Speaking to television channel Sportmediaset, the Italian added: "We will try to get to the end of this championship [Serie A] because it is fairer and more correct after the many investments and sacrifices of our clubs."
Uefa has invited representatives of its 55 member associations to Tuesday's video conference meeting, with Euro 2020 due to take place from 12 June-12 July at venues across Europe.
The boards of the European Club Association and the European Leagues, and a representative of world players' union Fifpro have also been invited and discussions will cover all domestic and European competitions, including the possible postponement of Euro 2020 by one year.
The Italian Football Federation had previously said the Serie A season may not be completed and offered alternatives including play-offs, not having a champion for 2019-20 or declaring the current standings final.
Gravina now hopes the league could finish by 30 June, one month later than scheduled, but admitted it could be extended for another month and suggested clubs should not train at the moment.
"If the league were to resume at the beginning of May, I would leave the question of training for the moment," he said.
"Let's leave the boys at home, they have to recover physical and mental energy."
On Sunday, Italy reported 368 more coronavirus deaths, a new one-day record in the country.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 15, 2020, 08:22:51 PM
the virus going on in the world .not just Europe.
How on earth thinks league is getting done beats me only due to the sheer scale of what's happening now on a daily and rapid basis.
Post by: Legion on March 15, 2020, 09:04:28 PM
This means as it currently stands that:
- Liverpool won’t win the league
- West Brom won’t get promoted
- Leeds won’t get promoted
- Villa won’t get relegated
Post by: TheMalandro on March 15, 2020, 09:14:11 PM
Recent reports suggest that if the Coronavirus precautions go through into May and June it will be “inevitable” that the current football season is cancelled.
This means as it currently stands that:
- Liverpool won’t win the league
- West Brom won’t get promoted
- Leeds won’t get promoted
- Villa won’t get relegated
Recent reports suggest that if the Coronavirus precautions go through into May and June it will be “inevitable” that the current football season is cancelled.
This means as it currently stands that:
- Liverpool won’t win the league
- West Brom won’t get promoted
- Leeds won’t get promoted
- Villa won’t get relegated
If Carling made laboratory diseases...
Post by: Ads on March 15, 2020, 09:15:54 PM
Post by: TheMalandro on March 15, 2020, 09:16:02 PM
Post by: BlackCountryVilla on March 15, 2020, 10:34:22 PM
Recent reports suggest that if the Coronavirus precautions go through into May and June it will be “inevitable” that the current football season is cancelled.
This means as it currently stands that:
- Liverpool won’t win the league
- West Brom won’t get promoted
- Leeds won’t get promoted
- Villa won’t get relegated
Not to detract from the gravity of the current situation this seems to good to be true to me. I just have this feeling that the final outcome won't be the one we all want!
We never do things the easy way and something tells me that if we do stay up we will have to earn it by finishing the season.
Post by: john2710 on March 15, 2020, 10:53:45 PM
There's going to be a lot of sadness over the next few months & we're all going to need the return of football to bring something resembling normality.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 15, 2020, 11:21:09 PM
Recent reports suggest that if the Coronavirus precautions go through into May and June it will be “inevitable” that the current football season is cancelled.
This means as it currently stands that:
- Liverpool won’t win the league
- West Brom won’t get promoted
- Leeds won’t get promoted
- Villa won’t get relegated
Not to detract from the gravity of the current situation this seems to good to be true to me. I just have this feeling that the final outcome won't be the one we all want!
We never do things the easy way and something tells me that if we do stay up we will have to earn it by finishing the season.
Just can't see a logistical way to finish the season at this point. Not saying it because of our predicament (well maybe I am!!), but the most logical action I can see at this point is to completely void the competitions that have not been completed (or even the ones that have) and start again next season. There would be issues about European competition qualification I suppose, but could you just have the group stages from this season to avoid those early qualification games. The amount of whinging from Liverpool and their mates in the media would be overwhelming, so I can see some sort of fudge that will allow them to be awarded the title.
Move Euro 2021 to next year which should be OK given the World Cup is in December 2022 and start the qualifiers as planned from September.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 16, 2020, 02:21:59 AM
Speaking to Marca, the 37-year-old has slammed the English authorities for how they have handled the situation: "In England, they told us to be prudent and try to stay at home as much as possible, but we've just got the weekend off and have been called in to train on Monday.
"Only those clubs who had positive tests, like Chelsea or Arsenal, are in quarantine, but we are training as normal. It would be madness to continue playing, as we all have to take this situation seriously.
"The other countries have already made radical decisions and we have to do the same. England cannot just close their eyes and look the other way. Life and health are more important than football."
Post by: tony scott on March 16, 2020, 06:12:35 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 16, 2020, 06:48:51 AM
Seeing headlines like “the season must be finished” on the Sunday Supplement shows the nativity/stupidity that’s still around. There’s no “must” about it, it’s so far down on the list of things to worry about it’s virtually meaningless. A good portion of the world is in the grips of a crisis, why is it so important if Liverpool win the fucking Premier League.Aha the British spirit to finish what’s been started. Absolutely stupid. It’s only a game of football that a few people turn up to watch FFS.
Post by: brian green on March 16, 2020, 06:56:57 AM
Post by: Mister E on March 16, 2020, 08:10:06 AM
It supports most of the last few posts above: Redscouse to win title; no relegations; Dirty Leeds and Bitters to gain promotion into an expanded league. Quite when they expect the new season would start is less clear.
Post by: KRS on March 16, 2020, 10:42:17 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 16, 2020, 10:44:14 AM
Here in Oz this morning, the Premier of NSW mentioned at least 6 months before we may get back to normal.
Hey hope everything is alright over there for you.
So I heard the Australian soccer will continue
"Football Federation Australia (FFA) today confirmed that the remainder of the Hyundai A-League 2019/20 regular season, and the Westfield W-League 2020 Grand Final scheduled for this weekend will go ahead, but with all matches to be played behind closed doors and with no fans permitted to attend. This policy will apply for the remaining six rounds of the Hyundai A-League 2019/20 regular season and will be reviewed for the Hyundai A-League 2020 Finals Series."
Is that still the case ?
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2020, 11:10:49 AM
Both Stephen Warnock and Peter Ridsdale on SSN insistent that the leagues MUST be finished regardless of the date football can start again. I disagree.
Well that’s ridiculous isn’t it. Anything that crosses into July means it has to be voided.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 16, 2020, 11:19:21 AM
Pepe Reina :The amount of people who don't undertsand the UK strategy is ridiculous. Whether the strategy is right or wrong is a moot point which won't be certain of until we look back on it next year. But what is very clear is that the communication of the strategy has been terrible.
Speaking to Marca, the 37-year-old has slammed the English authorities for how they have handled the situation: "In England, they told us to be prudent and try to stay at home as much as possible, but we've just got the weekend off and have been called in to train on Monday.
"Only those clubs who had positive tests, like Chelsea or Arsenal, are in quarantine, but we are training as normal. It would be madness to continue playing, as we all have to take this situation seriously.
"The other countries have already made radical decisions and we have to do the same. England cannot just close their eyes and look the other way. Life and health are more important than football."
Post by: Breezeblock on March 16, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Recent reports suggest that if the Coronavirus precautions go through into May and June it will be “inevitable” that the current football season is cancelled.Scousers, noses and boggies in complete and irretrievable meltdown. I would laugh so much my bollocks would fall off - presuming Corona virus had not made 'em fall off beforehand!
This means as it currently stands that:
- Liverpool won’t win the league
- West Brom won’t get promoted
- Leeds won’t get promoted
- Villa won’t get relegated
Post by: OCD on March 16, 2020, 11:32:52 AM
Here's Conn's view (http://https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/15/questions-but-few-answers-coronavirus-premeir-league-football-shutdown) from the Grauniad this mornng.
It supports most of the last few posts above: Redscouse to win title; no relegations; Dirty Leeds and Bitters to gain promotion into an expanded league. Quite when they expect the new season would start is less clear.
One compromise might be to roll everybody's points over into a new season. Not as good as just declaring this season null and void but could be a solution too.
Post by: Brassneck on March 16, 2020, 11:36:12 AM
Here's Conn's view (http://https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/15/questions-but-few-answers-coronavirus-premeir-league-football-shutdown) from the Grauniad this mornng.
It supports most of the last few posts above: Redscouse to win title; no relegations; Dirty Leeds and Bitters to gain promotion into an expanded league. Quite when they expect the new season would start is less clear.
One compromise might be to roll everybody's points over into a new season. Not as good as just declaring this season null and void but could be a solution too.
What about our game in hand?
Post by: chrisw1 on March 16, 2020, 12:24:34 PM
Post by: OCD on March 16, 2020, 01:12:44 PM
Here's Conn's view (http://https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/15/questions-but-few-answers-coronavirus-premeir-league-football-shutdown) from the Grauniad this mornng.
It supports most of the last few posts above: Redscouse to win title; no relegations; Dirty Leeds and Bitters to gain promotion into an expanded league. Quite when they expect the new season would start is less clear.
One compromise might be to roll everybody's points over into a new season. Not as good as just declaring this season null and void but could be a solution too.
What about our game in hand?
Could play it in place of a pre-season friendly.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 16, 2020, 01:29:48 PM
Post by: purpletrousers on March 16, 2020, 01:43:01 PM
Here's Conn's view (http://https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/15/questions-but-few-answers-coronavirus-premeir-league-football-shutdown) from the Grauniad this mornng.
It supports most of the last few posts above: Redscouse to win title; no relegations; Dirty Leeds and Bitters to gain promotion into an expanded league. Quite when they expect the new season would start is less clear.
One compromise might be to roll everybody's points over into a new season. Not as good as just declaring this season null and void but could be a solution too.
Seems a reasonable balance with allowing West Brom & Leeds to come up. If they are worth their salt I’m sure they’ll soon catch up.
Post by: Towser on March 16, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/dPCVsVn/default.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dPCVsVn)
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 16, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
It was to be 3pm
I just thought update here.
Best wishes all.
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 16, 2020, 05:23:39 PM
Freeze the season now where are. Start next season in exact same place and play a full season as well as games outstanding - these could be managed in by suspending league cup for one season.
Only players who fall out of contract at end of this season can be traded.
Seems fairest way but could men 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' wins next season with 180 points but if we are still relegated after 1.4 of season then we would deserve it as would anyone in the same position.
Post by: mr underhill on March 16, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
Post by: CT on March 16, 2020, 05:48:33 PM
All convinced the season would have to be finished, and under no circumstances should be voided.
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 16, 2020, 06:18:02 PM
There is no real evidence that here in Canada and much more so in the US that enough people truly give a shit to self quarantine or be open to mandatory measures. I imagine it's much the same back home. And if that remains the case then this thing will go on longer and longer.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 16, 2020, 06:59:11 PM
Over the last couple of days I've come to the conclusion - who gives a fuck.
Post by: wozwebs on March 16, 2020, 07:03:26 PM
How much will coronavirus impact Aston Villa's season?
Over the last couple of days I've come to the conclusion - who gives a fuck.
Yes, as much as football, and Villa, is a massive part of my life who cares now after todays statement. A lot of peoples lives will change forever now, whether it be health or financial. Imagine how many pubs will close for good now. Struggling at the best of times and now Boris has shithoused them by not enforcing closure so they can't claim any compensation. Disgusting.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 16, 2020, 07:07:50 PM
Post by: wozwebs on March 16, 2020, 07:13:12 PM
Sorry for being thick but what is the compensation?
If the government closes the business (pub) down they could likely apply for some compensation from them. As it stands they are not saying to close but have 'advised' people not to go to pubs so they'll be empty and many will go to the wall.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 16, 2020, 07:20:32 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 16, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Ok, so there is no compensation scheme yet. I can understand that if they start the demand for compensation which without doubt will come, then it’s going to get pretty difficult pretty quickly as everyone is going to look for a bail out.Sorry for being thick but what is the compensation?
If the government closes the business (pub) down they could likely apply for some compensation from them. As it stands they are not saying to close but have 'advised' people not to go to pubs so they'll be empty and many will go to the wall.
At some point they are going to have to come up with schemes to deal with all types of businesses and also trying to work out how to finance this.
I do get why the Government is trying to buy time. I was pretty impressed with the Advisors at the Press conference today. Johnson did a good job of not committing to anything.
Post by: Flin5tone on March 16, 2020, 07:34:24 PM
Post by: villabear on March 16, 2020, 07:47:05 PM
Trump “it seems to me we do a really good job, we’ll not only hold the death down to a level that is er much lower than the other way had we not done a good job”
Cue sycophantic nods behind him 🙄
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 16, 2020, 08:12:49 PM
Post by: cdward on March 16, 2020, 08:37:25 PM
Then let them vote on whether the current 3 clubs should be relegated, they wont agree, so no relegation, and Liverpool get to be champions, albeit by default, but we all know they are really.
Fuck West brom and Leeds, they are not in the PL so don't get a vote.
Post by: charlatan on March 16, 2020, 08:43:26 PM
It would seem to me strategically our best approach would be for all the players to get infected asap so they can get it over and done with and be as fit as possible if the season is restarted. They players of course may see things a bit differently!
Cue the discovery that even those who have a mild case are unable to maintain as high a level of fitness afterwards for some obscure reason
Post by: spangley1812 on March 16, 2020, 08:45:22 PM
The point about cancelling the season is that SKY/BT would then sue the clubs for several millions of pounds for failing to fulfil a contract
Post by: Steve67 on March 16, 2020, 08:46:28 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on March 16, 2020, 08:50:24 PM
Post by: Dave P on March 16, 2020, 08:53:42 PM
Let all 20 PL clubs vote whether they think Liverpool should be given the title, i think most would agree they have deserved it.
Then let them vote on whether the current 3 clubs should be relegated, they wont agree, so no relegation, and Liverpool get to be champions, albeit by default, but we all know they are really.
Fuck West brom and Leeds, they are not in the PL so don't get a vote.
I said this a few pages ago and it has to be the only solution.
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 16, 2020, 08:56:55 PM
Top press conference quote for Trump just
Trump “it seems to me we do a really good job, we’ll not only hold the death down to a level that is er much lower than the other way had we not done a good job”
Cue sycophantic nods behind him 🙄
Death, wow, he does say some things, the other day he said he hadn't touched his face in weeks, with reference to spreading the virus, so who the hell has the job of putting all that orange stuff all over his face, he'd want serious money for that.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 16, 2020, 09:05:00 PM
Grand National cancelled
The point about cancelling the season is that SKY/BT would then sue the clubs for several millions of pounds for failing to fulfil a contract
Do you not reckon the PL and its legal bods would have included some force majeure provision in anything they put pen to?
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 16, 2020, 09:11:51 PM
Grand National cancelled
The point about cancelling the season is that SKY/BT would then sue the clubs for several millions of pounds for failing to fulfil a contract
Do you not reckon the PL and its legal bods would have included some force majeure provision in anything they put pen to?
Also we're talking casualties, many thousands, Sky and BT wouldn't go anywhere near this, think about it, even the BBC suspended the TV licence charge for over 75's today until at least August, you don't dare cause yourself that kind of commercial damage by doing stuff like that.
Post by: The Edge on March 16, 2020, 09:14:51 PM
My thoughts are (forgive me if already mentioned)It wouldn't be 1.4 seasons. It would be points accumulated over over 2 full seasons. It's the sensible option in my view. It may mean abandoning both domestic cups though. Alternatively shorten the 20/21 season to maybe 30 games (or 31 in cases like ours) and all clubs start the season on the points tally they accumulated this season.
Freeze the season now where are. Start next season in exact same place and play a full season as well as games outstanding - these could be managed in by suspending league cup for one season.
Only players who fall out of contract at end of this season can be traded.
Seems fairest way but could men 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' wins next season with 180 points but if we are still relegated after 1.4 of season then we would deserve it as would anyone in the same position.
Post by: Dave P on March 16, 2020, 09:16:00 PM
Grand National cancelled
The point about cancelling the season is that SKY/BT would then sue the clubs for several millions of pounds for failing to fulfil a contract
Do you not reckon the PL and its legal bods would have included some force majeure provision in anything they put pen to?
Also we're talking casualties, many thousands, Sky and BT wouldn't go anywhere near this, think about it, even the BBC suspended the TV licence charge for over 75's today until at least August, you don't dare cause yourself that kind of commercial damage by doing stuff like that.
Correct. If the only reason not to cancel a season is due to the threat of TV companies suing, then this would soon be rebuffed.
Post by: Dave P on March 16, 2020, 09:19:16 PM
Post by: Billy Walker on March 16, 2020, 09:19:47 PM
With a quarter of the season still to go, why the hell should anyone think they have a done deal. Leeds have imploded before, Liverpool have lost their last four games, albeit three in the cups. Man Utd are in very good form and would moan unfairness that they would have caught not only Chelsea, but Leicester too. Villa's game in hand is key too. The season has to be finished. Scrap next season if must, as that cannot be debated as no games have been played.
The problem with attempting to finish the season is that the integrity of the present season has been compromised meaning the final ten games cannot be played within the same parameters as the first twenty-eight. Empty stadia would mean home advantage is lost, for example. Likewise, clusters of players and management could be unavailable/available from week to week due to illness/self-isolation, totally skewing results.
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 16, 2020, 09:35:27 PM
That way the season is actually fulfilled, everybody knows where they stand and everybody knows what they have to do to survive or get promoted end of next season, the third place play-offs can't go ahead because it would involve to many extra games and to many teams completing this mini competition this season, so lets say, season ends right now Leeds and WBA have earned the right of automatic promotion because they hold the automatic promotion places, the rest is pure conjecture, so on and so forth throughout the rest of the leagues.
Post by: OCD on March 16, 2020, 09:36:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2020, 09:46:20 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 16, 2020, 09:52:20 PM
Agree. It’s utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
I've been saying this for a couple of weeks now, you can see the enormity of this is going to overtake everybody, its going to reshape everything we do and all our lives, nothing will be the same, the other thing to consider is the state of the world economy after 18 months of this, it will be on the floor, some of the planets biggest companies will fail in the coming months, banks will collapse this will make 2008 seem like a poor mans rehearsal for the real thing, the other thing that few people talk about but has been mentioned is the awful after effects this virus potentially leaves people with, breathing difficulties much earlier in life than would have been expected, all kinds of problems.
Post by: Ads on March 16, 2020, 09:57:59 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 16, 2020, 10:02:28 PM
I think you need to slow down and unplug yourself from wildly speculating. You appear to be terrifying yourself and you may end up needlessly terrifying somebody else.
Thanks for the advice.
Post by: David_Nab on March 16, 2020, 10:12:38 PM
Post by: algy on March 16, 2020, 10:46:13 PM
I think you need to slow down and unplug yourself from wildly speculating. You appear to be terrifying yourself and you may end up needlessly terrifying somebody else.This is good advice generally. With 24hr news and social media, it's easy for this stuff to become overwhelming. Overly worrying about it will do more harm than good.
Not to underplay the seriousness of the situation, of course. But stressing about it can eat you up for no real benefit. It's maybe better, and will put your mind at rest (and others) to offer to get shopping, prescriptions, etc to vulnerable people local to you. Even if they don't take you up on the offer, knowing there's someone there who cares can make all the difference
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 16, 2020, 11:14:30 PM
How much will coronavirus impact Aston Villa's season?
Over the last couple of days I've come to the conclusion - who gives a fuck.
100% agree .
If there is any way I can change the title I shall as not go cause any undue offense or insensitivity.
I personally find the situation unsettling and upsetting and I don't want to add to any one else concerning issue.
Best wishes.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 16, 2020, 11:16:10 PM
Lots of people seem to think the media are making too much of a big deal out of this, but I feel like casualties would have been far greater if they were playing it down.
Post by: Brassneck on March 17, 2020, 12:04:14 AM
How much will coronavirus impact Aston Villa's season?
Over the last couple of days I've come to the conclusion - who gives a fuck.
100% agree .
If there is any way I can change the title I shall as not go cause any undue offense or insensitivity.
I personally find the situation unsettling and upsetting and I don't want to add to any one else concerning issue.
Best wishes.
You haven’t done anything wrong. I find it amazing how quickly things have escalated. You only have to retrace the comments on this thread to see this.
I posted on Thursday that I wasn’t going to go to the game. At that time, I was in a minority. How rapidly things progressed over the next 48 hours is testament to how quickly this has crept up on us.
I have been a little more conscious because my wife is vulnerable to the virus and it would probably kill her. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have gone to Leicester and it was selfish of me to have done so.
However, I see no problem with discussing how it will affect our team. It falls under the current affairs category and I personally enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts about the situation. I am desperate for the season to be voided but I’m also aware that a lot of unhappiness is just around the corner. The club will go on and I see no harm in discussing how the virus affects us.
Post by: brentastonb6 on March 17, 2020, 12:24:47 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 17, 2020, 01:20:54 AM
How much will coronavirus impact Aston Villa's season?
Over the last couple of days I've come to the conclusion - who gives a fuck.
100% agree .
If there is any way I can change the title I shall as not go cause any undue offense or insensitivity.
I personally find the situation unsettling and upsetting and I don't want to add to any one else concerning issue.
Best wishes.
You haven’t done anything wrong. I find it amazing how quickly things have escalated. You only have to retrace the comments on this thread to see this.
I posted on Thursday that I wasn’t going to go to the game. At that time, I was in a minority. How rapidly things progressed over the next 48 hours is testament to how quickly this has crept up on us.
I have been a little more conscious because my wife is vulnerable to the virus and it would probably kill her. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have gone to Leicester and it was selfish of me to have done so.
However, I see no problem with discussing how it will affect our team. It falls under the current affairs category and I personally enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts about the situation. I am desperate for the season to be voided but I’m also aware that a lot of unhappiness is just around the corner. The club will go on and I see no harm in discussing how the virus affects us.
Yes certainly the intentions for the title is for discussion and not meant to suggest that this is merely some inconvenience to villas season and forgetting the very real bigger picture of each of life.
Best wishes to you and yours and this situation . Appreciate the feedback. And also to things you shared - I like to be sending the most respect and wellness for you at the time ! Thank you
Post by: olaftab on March 17, 2020, 03:24:59 AM
Post by: algy on March 17, 2020, 06:27:23 AM
Won't "overly worrying" do more good than harm... if it keeps people from making unnecessary journeys and contracting/spreading the virus?Oh yeah, definitely. Personally I think there's a line between reasonable concern and panicking, and you have to be mindful that the news, social media etc is prone to inducing the latter. That's all.
Lots of people seem to think the media are making too much of a big deal out of this, but I feel like casualties would have been far greater if they were playing it down.
Post by: Big Ming on March 17, 2020, 06:55:48 AM
A game of Snooker is about to finish. The final Black is slowly rolling true, dead centre of the pocket for a win and will drop in two seconds. The game is won. It is the Law of the Snooker Table.
Meanwhile, a couple of minutes earlier, a jet airliner suffered a catastrophic mechanical failure and began to plunge to earth.
It will destroy the Snooker Hall and everything in in in one second. This is the Law of Gravity.
What is the relevance?
It's a metaphor for what just happened to Liverpool FC.......
and an illustration of my degree of boredom with NO FOOTY.
Post by: TheMalandro on March 17, 2020, 07:11:54 AM
How much will coronavirus impact Aston Villa's season?
Over the last couple of days I've come to the conclusion - who gives a fuck.
100% agree .
If there is any way I can change the title I shall as not go cause any undue offense or insensitivity.
I personally find the situation unsettling and upsetting and I don't want to add to any one else concerning issue.
Best wishes.
You haven’t done anything wrong. I find it amazing how quickly things have escalated. You only have to retrace the comments on this thread to see this.
I posted on Thursday that I wasn’t going to go to the game. At that time, I was in a minority. How rapidly things progressed over the next 48 hours is testament to how quickly this has crept up on us.
I have been a little more conscious because my wife is vulnerable to the virus and it would probably kill her. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have gone to Leicester and it was selfish of me to have done so.
However, I see no problem with discussing how it will affect our team. It falls under the current affairs category and I personally enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts about the situation. I am desperate for the season to be voided but I’m also aware that a lot of unhappiness is just around the corner. The club will go on and I see no harm in discussing how the virus affects us.
Certainly not trying to end the discussion.
It was my own thoughts over the last few days.
When the Premier league postponed the league, I was delighted, it feels a little ridiculous now.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 17, 2020, 08:04:35 AM
Won't "overly worrying" do more good than harm... if it keeps people from making unnecessary journeys and contracting/spreading the virus?
Lots of people seem to think the media are making too much of a big deal out of this, but I feel like casualties would have been far greater if they were playing it down.
Yes quote and I keep coming back to sports people who have it saying stuff like “it just felt like a mild cold”. Lucky you, shut up and don’t create a perception it’s not serious. It’s incredibly reckless to do that.
Post by: robbo1874 on March 17, 2020, 08:06:19 AM
We’d have a decent case to say, it’s too close to call at the bottom and out destiny is at this point still in our hands, so it would be cruel if we were relegated on that basis. Leeds and Albion would be kicking off big time if they miss out on promotion.
And it could just be kicking the van down the road for next season. For example, if the season started up again in August with no transfer window and essentially the current season is replayed, would we fare any better? Maybe, maybe not. I think if they allowed a transfer window it would advantage the bottom clubs in the Prem at the expense of the clubs in the championship. Some might say: so what? But I don’t think that would be fair. The whole thing is a massive dilemma.
The fairest thing overall would be to replay this season, but I just don’t see Liverpool not being awarded it and that opens up a whole bunch of other claims about relegation and promotion that would need to be addressed. Some kind of fudge where Liverpool get awarded it and everything else stays the same is my guess.
Post by: robbo1874 on March 17, 2020, 08:12:56 AM
Post by: amfy on March 17, 2020, 08:19:50 AM
More to the point - you let Albion and Leeds come up, and the same must apply to the lower divisions where it is much less ‘cut and dried’. In League One there are 3 points between 2nd and 8th. Teams right down to Wycombe in 8th would say one more week could have put them right there, just as much as we could argue we wouldn’t have been ‘stuck’ in the relegation zone.
As for the top 6 in The Championship having a meeting - let’s have a quick look at Bristol City - only one point behind Preston - what would they say? .......& Tbf I can say first hand that Preston have been shockingly bad in recent weeks!
Liverpool are the only case where you can say ‘close enough’ let’s just give it to them, especially as the implications of winning or losing the title, rather than being promoted or relegated, are not as great.
Post by: berneboy on March 17, 2020, 08:28:13 AM
A few typos in my post above, but you get the gist.I think kicking the van down the road may leave us with sore toes ...
Post by: robbo1874 on March 17, 2020, 08:29:45 AM
The Championship isn’t cut and dried at all. I am pretty sure Leeds we’re going up this time last year. Both Albion and Leeds started the season like trains but both have been much more inconsistent in recent weeks.good points you make, which I hadn’t really considered, but seem to be saying similar things in terms of the likely outcome?
More to the point - you let Albion and Leeds come up, and the same must apply to the lower divisions where it is much less ‘cut and dried’. In League One there are 3 points between 2nd and 8th. Teams right down to Wycombe in 8th would say one more week could have put them right there, just as much as we could argue we wouldn’t have been ‘stuck’ in the relegation zone.
As for the top 6 in The Championship having a meeting - let’s have a quick look at Bristol City - only one point behind Preston - what would they say? .......& Tbf I can say first hand that Preston have been shockingly bad in recent weeks!
Liverpool are the only case where you can say ‘close enough’ let’s just give it to them, especially as the implications of winning or losing the title, rather than being promoted or relegated, are not as great.
Post by: robbo1874 on March 17, 2020, 08:32:55 AM
seen it happen in Nuneaton when Leicester came to town!A few typos in my post above, but you get the gist.I think kicking the van down the road may leave us with sore toes ...
Post by: andyh on March 17, 2020, 08:42:29 AM
Championship clubs are “invited” to join the PL. Finishing in any position in their league does not give them an automatic right. They can have as many meetings as they like. Also currently there is no group that can actually claim any rights because current top six may not be top six if the season was to be completed.great point
Post by: darren woolley on March 17, 2020, 08:59:48 AM
Post by: ROBBO on March 17, 2020, 09:05:36 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 17, 2020, 09:15:38 AM
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 17, 2020, 10:35:03 AM
Won't "overly worrying" do more good than harm... if it keeps people from making unnecessary journeys and contracting/spreading the virus?
Lots of people seem to think the media are making too much of a big deal out of this, but I feel like casualties would have been far greater if they were playing it down.
Completely agree, the very thing the government are being criticised for now is the off handed casual approach they started with, slowly slowly they are coming around to the reality of this and putting action plans together, personally I think anybody that takes laid back approach to this needs to catch themselves up, I have people in the village I live in, are adamant this is a media created crisis, one guy even linked it to us being weened of Brexit and everybody should stop scaring themselves and chill out, so believe me they are out there.
Good news: Australia who are world leaders in producing vaccines say they are right now live testing what they think is a problem solver vaccine, human trials will start in June and they reckon it should be out by next June although they are under such pressure to produce this vaccine, they are working around the clock to get it done by winter time, so its possible the answer is out there.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 17, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
Whoops, forgot the link (https://fussball.wettpoint.com/en/archives/tables/gamedays-2018/championship-england-36-2018-19.html)
Post by: Ads on March 17, 2020, 11:20:42 AM
I think you need to slow down and unplug yourself from wildly speculating. You appear to be terrifying yourself and you may end up needlessly terrifying somebody else.
Thanks for the advice.
Doesn't sound like you've took much notice of it.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 17, 2020, 11:29:42 AM
I just want the season to resume as soon as the Virus can be dealt with first when that is who knows people's safety is paramount.
Really?
I just want this season to go away and never come back again.
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2020, 11:33:19 AM
I just want the season to resume as soon as the Virus can be dealt with first when that is who knows people's safety is paramount.
Really?
I just want this season to go away and never come back again.
Season, what season? I don't see no season!
Post by: chrisw1 on March 17, 2020, 11:50:00 AM
It seems most commentators are insistent that the season is played out, however long that takes and whatever knock on disruption it causes. Even Matt Kendrick etc were advocating this on their Villa podcast (and yest, they are all Villa fans)
For me, it just adds too many complications - players contracts, transfer windows etc. If all countries try this then transfer windows can't align, creating even more complexity.
Whilst admittedly my main concern is Villa, it does seem to make far more sence to take this one on the chin now and void this season to minimise knock on effects potentially for seasons to come. The fact that is stuffs up Leeds and the Baggies is an entirely co-incidental side effect that I'l just have to learn to live with.
Post by: mr underhill on March 17, 2020, 11:53:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 17, 2020, 11:58:04 AM
I just want the season to resume as soon as the Virus can be dealt with first when that is who knows people's safety is paramount.
Really?
I just want this season to go away and never come back again.
Indeed.
Post by: Towser on March 17, 2020, 12:11:59 PM
I do wonder though, how would we feel if say last season, we got to the play offs and this had happened and last season was cancelled and our 10 game winning run counted for nothing?
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2020, 12:14:25 PM
Post by: nick harper on March 17, 2020, 12:17:47 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51915302
Post by: Brassneck on March 17, 2020, 12:23:48 PM
Could be the first home game of the season not to sell out.
Hardly surprising given it probably won’t ever be played.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 17, 2020, 12:29:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 17, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
I honestly think that as the days and weeks go on, how they sort this season's football out is going to seem extremely trivial indeed.
I think most realise that already. It’s utterly meaningless. Just pack it in and hope we’re lucky enough to be in a position to start afresh in the medium term.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 17, 2020, 12:43:15 PM
Post by: mr underhill on March 17, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
Post by: colin69 on March 17, 2020, 12:46:23 PM
just had the Wolves email - WTF?
Just had it too. As if anyone’s actually going to buy extra tickets.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 17, 2020, 01:01:30 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on March 17, 2020, 01:32:24 PM
Post by: Mister E on March 17, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
I appreciate the potential seriousness of the virus. But this is a football forum so I'm not going to make any apologies for posting on here about the Villa and my hopes for the sporting outcome of this.This.
It seems most commentators are insistent that the season is played out, however long that takes and whatever knock on disruption it causes. Even Matt Kendrick etc were advocating this on their Villa podcast (and yest, they are all Villa fans)
For me, it just adds too many complications - players contracts, transfer windows etc. If all countries try this then transfer windows can't align, creating even more complexity.
Whilst admittedly my main concern is Villa, it does seem to make far more sence to take this one on the chin now and void this season to minimise knock on effects potentially for seasons to come. The fact that is stuffs up Leeds and the Baggies is an entirely co-incidental side effect that I'l just have to learn to live with.
I was surprised to hear a R5L dicussion last night and people saying the season has to be completed - almost at any cost.
I think that - frankly - is naive.
Post by: phantom limb on March 17, 2020, 01:57:53 PM
Post by: john e on March 17, 2020, 02:08:18 PM
good views, made up
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 17, 2020, 02:10:24 PM
Post by: aev on March 17, 2020, 02:33:43 PM
There’s not a cat in hell’s chance another game will be played this season.
You mean they won’t finish the season? I can see the season being completed at a later date.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 17, 2020, 02:36:08 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on March 17, 2020, 02:40:59 PM
Euro 2020 is now Euro 2021.Big question is will Harry Kane be fit by then?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 17, 2020, 02:45:19 PM
There’s not a cat in hell’s chance another game will be played this season.
You mean they won’t finish the season? I can see the season being completed at a later date.
This time next year?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 17, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
There’s not a cat in hell’s chance another game will be played this season.
You mean they won’t finish the season? I can see the season being completed at a later date.
There will have to be a cut off point whereby the season is cancelled as completion will be practically impossible. My guess would be mid to end of April.
Post by: aev on March 17, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
There’s not a cat in hell’s chance another game will be played this season.
You mean they won’t finish the season? I can see the season being completed at a later date.
There will have to be a cut off point whereby the season is cancelled as completion will be practically impossible. My guess would be mid to end of April.
I think they will be loath to effectively cancel it so early - I appreciate the problem of contracts fitness and everything else but I just think it leaves so many potential problems leaving something unfinished. I appreciate it doesn’t matter that much with respect to everything else is happening but it is thread relevant.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 17, 2020, 03:07:03 PM
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on March 17, 2020, 03:11:52 PM
Health and Safety will be the driver for everything we do from now on. When things start to become relatively normal resuming Sporting events will be looked at but they'll be way down the pecking order.
Not to mention once they say 'all clear' players will need about a month training to get match fit again. No way they're going to stay training day in day out at BMH for the next countless months with nothing at the end of the week to make it worthwhile
Post by: usav on March 17, 2020, 03:24:34 PM
Post by: aev on March 17, 2020, 03:24:37 PM
Health and Safety will be the driver for everything we do from now on. When things start to become relatively normal resuming Sporting events will be looked at but they'll be way down the pecking order.
Not to mention once they say 'all clear' players will need about a month training to get match fit again. No way they're going to stay training day in day out at BMH for the next countless months with nothing at the end of the week to make it worthwhile
I hope your right, makes it sound a bit flippant but ...
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 17, 2020, 03:26:08 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 17, 2020, 03:27:37 PM
Health and Safety will be the driver for everything we do from now on. When things start to become relatively normal resuming Sporting events will be looked at but they'll be way down the pecking order.
Not to mention once they say 'all clear' players will need about a month training to get match fit again. No way they're going to stay training day in day out at BMH for the next countless months with nothing at the end of the week to make it worthwhile
I hadn't taken that into consideration. A delay to the start of next season is now a possibility and given that Euro 2020 will now be 2021 fixtures league will be condensed to give International squads time to prepare. Maybe all domestic cup competitions will be scrapped or will be only for those not involved in Europe.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 17, 2020, 03:39:15 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 17, 2020, 03:46:21 PM
Post by: cdward on March 17, 2020, 05:29:14 PM
If they cancel this season will season ticket holders be given refunds?
When will new season tickets go on sale?
On a personal note, i am sitting top of my mini FPL league at work, should i win the prize money?
Post by: Dave P on March 17, 2020, 06:29:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 17, 2020, 06:32:57 PM
Irrespective of the outcome for Villa I’d be ecstatic if that was the position.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 17, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
UEFA are keen to draw under this season on June 30th. With that in mind with 10 league games to go plus 3 rounds of the FA Cup and other European Competition, we’d have to realistically get going mid to late April to get everything in. Can we see that happening?Absolutely not.
Post by: OCD on March 17, 2020, 06:59:38 PM
Post by: aev on March 17, 2020, 08:13:47 PM
Whilst I think they will try and finish the league fixtures (and was thinking over the summer), the end of June deadline seems completely fanciful.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 17, 2020, 08:34:24 PM
Post by: frank black on March 17, 2020, 08:42:25 PM
Post by: The Moose on March 17, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Post by: algy on March 17, 2020, 09:09:09 PM
Post by: Aldridge Villa on March 17, 2020, 09:58:34 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on March 17, 2020, 10:18:39 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 17, 2020, 10:23:02 PM
The behind closed doors to do this would be the strong option as either government guidelines of mass gatherings being banned would probable be in force.
However as the situation escalates I can imagine more dilemma for football .
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 17, 2020, 10:24:25 PM
Sport has just got to do one for now I'm afraid.
Of course the big issue is that it's not just simply sport at elite level it's business. Protected interests all round.
Though the covid 19 really puts the business of sport and other things into perspective
Post by: WassallVillain on March 17, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sports lawyer on R5L is optimistic the season can be finished by the end of June.
It probably could. But that would be on the assumption that the clubs are clear of the virus at the times they want the games to resume. It”s not right but canning this season and starting next in September is the best option. Scrapping cups would enable new season to be completed in shorter season
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 17, 2020, 10:47:40 PM
It's bollocks based on prepping their stand off with Sky when they start to argue about money.
Post by: David_Nab on March 17, 2020, 11:03:39 PM
Other issue
If this goes on for months and we know teams are now telling players to stay at home ,match fitness has gone so won't they need a preseason of sorts to get up to speed ?
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 17, 2020, 11:40:03 PM
A Sports Lawyer, oh it must be on then.Sports lawyer on R5L is optimistic the season can be finished by the end of June.
It probably could. But that would be on the assumption that the clubs are clear of the virus at the times they want the games to resume. It”s not right but canning this season and starting next in September is the best option. Scrapping cups would enable new season to be completed in shorter season
Of course they can finish the season if they want to start the next season very very late and then cancel the 2021 Euros and pretty much everything else.
The self isolation period starts this weekend so 12 weeks takes you to mid July.
Then you need players to get fit and say you start the season in August.
What happens to next season?
Not happening
Post by: OzVilla on March 17, 2020, 11:40:14 PM
If the projections are correct I can’t see it being completed if they say 30 June.
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on March 17, 2020, 11:41:31 PM
There is an article in the Torygraph just now about the clubs and the FA focusing on finishing the season, no matter how long it takes.I think the money thing is correct - if the season is voided will Sky subscribers want refunds/cancel subscriptions (if they aren't already), will Sky want money back from the clubs, if clubs have to repay Sky money will they be able to pay the salaries of players with the income shortfall etc etc.
It's bollocks based on prepping their stand off with Sky when they start to argue about money.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 17, 2020, 11:44:31 PM
The key point is whether this is an open ended timeline or they’ll have a set date by which the season must be concluded. If it’s 30 June then that is obviously totally different to “however long it takes”.The idea that they are telling 70 year olds to lock them selves up whilst they start playing football is untenable.
If the projections are correct I can’t see it being completed if they say 30 June.
The only way they finish this season is not starting the next one for a very long time.
Post by: Villan82 on March 17, 2020, 11:47:43 PM
The problem as I see it with this play behind closed doors approach is you eliminate home advantage ..so how does that make it any less fair than voiding the league ?
Other issue
If this goes on for months and we know teams are now telling players to stay at home ,match fitness has gone so won't they need a preseason of sorts to get up to speed ?
Absolutely, they cannot just 'carry on'. It is so unfair. It brings the game into disrepute.
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 17, 2020, 11:48:08 PM
No Matter what my biggest concern is sorting out my st for next season how sad
Post by: Brassneck on March 17, 2020, 11:58:45 PM
There is an article in the Torygraph just now about the clubs and the FA focusing on finishing the season, no matter how long it takes.I think the money thing is correct - if the season is voided will Sky subscribers want refunds/cancel subscriptions (if they aren't already), will Sky want money back from the clubs, if clubs have to repay Sky money will they be able to pay the salaries of players with the income shortfall etc etc.
It's bollocks based on prepping their stand off with Sky when they start to argue about money.
I’m not convinced that sky pay everything up front.
I always thought the money came in stage payments, with the last one coming after the season had finished. It’s possibly easier to resolve than it seems.
It’s not right that teams receive full payments (which obviously impacts us) so a 25% or thereabouts reduction seems fair.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 18, 2020, 12:13:22 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 18, 2020, 12:18:03 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 18, 2020, 12:25:25 AM
I think Sky/BT could just say make up for the money we have lost on lack of live games by having even more next season. Perhaps have every Friday/Saturday/Sunday/Monday night have a live game on, or do Amazon-style weekends/midweeks where every game is televised. I would hope they wouldn't seek to start televising Saturday 3pm games as clubs in lower leagues will be struggling enough as it is. Not just because of lost weeks but also because I think people might remain wary about being around crowds for some time, even when everyone is telling us things are "back to normal".
I think your concerns are valid, but I suspect most people will jump with both feet, arse-first ,into 'back to normal' when (if) the time comes.
Post by: Brassneck on March 18, 2020, 12:25:44 AM
I guess a lot will depend on what's in contracts and if there's anything to cover this scenario. You're right that Sky shouldn't pay it all if the season is abandoned, but on the other hand clubs will have budgeted for the full amount. So a say 25% reduction will screw some clubs, especially someone like Bournemouth that because of the attendances will really rely on the Sky money. And FFP will need to take a backseat most likely.
The general rule of thumb was that the loss will lie where it fell.
However, legislation prescribes that money paid for something not received because of events that were out of each parties control may be recovered.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 18, 2020, 01:36:17 AM
UEFA are keen to draw under this season on June 30th. With that in mind with 10 league games to go plus 3 rounds of the FA Cup and other European Competition, we’d have to realistically get going mid to late April to get everything in. Can we see that happening?
Heard something on the radio saying that Champions League might resort to 1 leg quarter finals and a tournament style last four like the World Club Championship to fit it in.
Post by: ROBBO on March 18, 2020, 03:55:00 AM
Post by: brian green on March 18, 2020, 04:18:56 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 18, 2020, 04:45:42 AM
Post by: aev on March 18, 2020, 04:57:04 AM
Whether this is journalists being briefed by vested interests, or whether it is a because they fear lawsuits if a season is declared void I don’t know but I reckon it will be decided by the path of least resistance which I guess means the cheapest option.
Post by: brian green on March 18, 2020, 05:41:49 AM
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 18, 2020, 06:49:32 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 18, 2020, 08:10:31 AM
Yep. But if they finish 'however long it takes' there may well not be a season next year - so the clubs would lose that money.There is an article in the Torygraph just now about the clubs and the FA focusing on finishing the season, no matter how long it takes.I think the money thing is correct - if the season is voided will Sky subscribers want refunds/cancel subscriptions (if they aren't already), will Sky want money back from the clubs, if clubs have to repay Sky money will they be able to pay the salaries of players with the income shortfall etc etc.
It's bollocks based on prepping their stand off with Sky when they start to argue about money.
I still think taking the hit now is the only sensible thing, but I am biased.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 18, 2020, 08:16:42 AM
I think Sky/BT could just say make up for the money we have lost on lack of live games by having even more next season. Perhaps have every Friday/Saturday/Sunday/Monday night have a live game on, or do Amazon-style weekends/midweeks where every game is televised. I would hope they wouldn't seek to start televising Saturday 3pm games as clubs in lower leagues will be struggling enough as it is. Not just because of lost weeks but also because I think people might remain wary about being around crowds for some time, even when everyone is telling us things are "back to normal".I don't think showing loads more games would necessarily help sky make up the money. I'd guess most of their money comes from subsribers (which they're losing in the 1,000's right now). Showing every game would add some advertising revenue, but essentially they would be diluting their own product.
I'm not weeping for sky, but the loss of income is going to put clubs in real trouble as the wages are still being paid.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 18, 2020, 08:21:54 AM
If something good is to come of this it might be that top clubs especially think about using at least part of their TV money to create a hardship fund as some other industries do. Ever increasing player wages as such a high percentage of turnover was only sustainable whilst the Sky/BT gravy train continued to rattle down the tracks. The buffers are now fast approaching.Surely it's time for salary caps? How can we justify a world where some average players are demanding £120k a week?
Post by: mr underhill on March 18, 2020, 09:00:56 AM
Post by: Mister E on March 18, 2020, 10:05:18 AM
I think these current circumstances are going to challenge lots of 'sacred cows' and the world may be a very different place in 12 months' time. Salary caps is just one way in which pro football may change. Another may be the 'united nations' approach to the league: we may find fewer players from other continents willing to be over here; away from their family and friends and accustomed culture.If something good is to come of this it might be that top clubs especially think about using at least part of their TV money to create a hardship fund as some other industries do. Ever increasing player wages as such a high percentage of turnover was only sustainable whilst the Sky/BT gravy train continued to rattle down the tracks. The buffers are now fast approaching.Surely it's time for salary caps? How can we justify a world where some average players are demanding £120k a week?
Post by: fredm on March 18, 2020, 11:01:25 AM
the suggestion now is to play out all the remaining fixtures behind closed doors on neutral grounds and to screen every game. If true, this is a desperate utterly venal act which proves irrefutably that money rules above all else. So as far as the PL and their paymasters are concerned its ok for the elderly to be isolated for months but nothing is going to disrupt the sound of cash sloshing into our accounts. cnuts.
That suggestion is ok as long as the teams have players who are not isolated. It only needs one player/staff member to say he is feeling unwell and the whole lot are isolated and then what do they do?
Post by: aev on March 18, 2020, 11:05:21 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 18, 2020, 11:25:57 AM
It only takes one club to refuse and if I was AVFC that is exactly what I would do.the suggestion now is to play out all the remaining fixtures behind closed doors on neutral grounds and to screen every game. If true, this is a desperate utterly venal act which proves irrefutably that money rules above all else. So as far as the PL and their paymasters are concerned its ok for the elderly to be isolated for months but nothing is going to disrupt the sound of cash sloshing into our accounts. cnuts.
That suggestion is ok as long as the teams have players who are not isolated. It only needs one player/staff member to say he is feeling unwell and the whole lot are isolated and then what do they do?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 18, 2020, 11:44:07 AM
Post by: mr underhill on March 18, 2020, 12:06:39 PM
Post by: in exile on March 18, 2020, 12:46:09 PM
Post by: Brassneck on March 18, 2020, 01:16:19 PM
When is the Premier League meeting - is it today, tomorrow or Friday?
I doubt anything final will be announced tomorrow.
At the earliest, it will be 3 April and even then, I can’t see them being in a position to decide anything.
Post by: mr underhill on March 18, 2020, 01:25:34 PM
Post by: Colhint on March 18, 2020, 01:26:02 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on March 18, 2020, 01:27:01 PM
Fuck that idea. Season is finished, they need to accept it. If we are obsessing with playing dead seasons, let's start with 1915-16 to 1917-18. We were decent in those days so be nice to play then.
Yeah but how long is it going to take to get the players from those squads fully match fit?
Post by: Brassneck on March 18, 2020, 01:28:55 PM
definitely meeting tomorrow I think they might well announce something after Tuesday's meeting.
I think they need to give 21 days notice which is why they initially pencilled in 3 April.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 18, 2020, 01:30:45 PM
Fuck that idea. Season is finished, they need to accept it. If we are obsessing with playing dead seasons, let's start with 1915-16 to 1917-18. We were decent in those days so be nice to play then.
Yeah but how long is it going to take to get the players from those squads fully match fit?
Probably less time than Keinan Davis.
Post by: algy on March 18, 2020, 01:44:33 PM
HahahaFuck that idea. Season is finished, they need to accept it. If we are obsessing with playing dead seasons, let's start with 1915-16 to 1917-18. We were decent in those days so be nice to play then.
Yeah but how long is it going to take to get the players from those squads fully match fit?
Probably less time than Keinan Davis.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 18, 2020, 02:07:14 PM
I may be wrong but if 14 clubvs agree on any particular course of action then it goes ahead.According to the PL rules, but these are extreme circumstances and decisions that are prejudicial will be challenged.
Post by: Dave P on March 18, 2020, 02:11:28 PM
I may be wrong but if 14 clubvs agree on any particular course of action then it goes ahead.According to the PL rules, but these are extreme circumstances and decisions that are prejudicial will be challenged.
i.e. "We hate Liverpool" is not a valid reason!
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 18, 2020, 02:18:51 PM
In Law, maybe not.I may be wrong but if 14 clubvs agree on any particular course of action then it goes ahead.According to the PL rules, but these are extreme circumstances and decisions that are prejudicial will be challenged.
i.e. "We hate Liverpool" is not a valid reason!
If they decide to play out the rest of the season allowing home advantage and that means spectators, then so be it.
Behind closed door games are used as punishment, and none of the teams that will be affected have done anything wrong.
There are at least 6 teams that will go against it.
Post by: KRS on March 18, 2020, 04:33:05 PM
Post by: aev on March 18, 2020, 05:34:06 PM
Post by: frank black on March 18, 2020, 06:26:25 PM
Post by: wozwebs on March 18, 2020, 06:34:46 PM
Quote
It’s worth remembering that Italy has been one of the hardest hit countries by the virus. The latest stats - which have just been released - make clear just how devastating it's been there.
Despite a raft of tough measures and a strict lockdown, deaths in Italy surged by 475 over the past day to 2,978. The number of cases also shot up to 35,713 from 31,506.
That's the biggest increase since the outbreak began.
The majority of deaths have occurred in the northern Lombardy region, which contains the capital Milan. Hospitals there are reportedly at breaking point and retired doctors and nurses are being asked to return to work.
"I make a heartfelt appeal to all the doctors, nurses and medical personnel who have retired in the last two years... to help us in this emergency," the region’s governor, Attilio Fontana, said earlier today.
It’s a similar picture across the rest of Italy. The government is trying to plug gaps in its stretched healthcare system, and it’s even pushed 10,000 student doctors into service nine-months ahead of schedule.
More widely, officials have not ruled out extending the full lockdown beyond the start of April. Bars, restaurants and most shops in Italy have closed as have schools and universities. Nearly all Italians have been told to stay at home.
But even with these restrictions the number of cases continues to rise. “The contagion numbers are not falling, they continue to be high," Mr Fontana said.
“We are asking people to make sacrifices to save lives."
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 18, 2020, 08:42:29 PM
Robbo, it will never be properly over. The world is changing in front of our eyes. Employment, travel, banking, farming, industry, education as we knew it prior to coronavirus are going to change out of all recognition.
Best wishes to you in France and respect to you at this time.
I agree on the changes and I like to add I think this changes people too. I'm grateful to the reading on the internet even if I can get confused.
For the big picture I am trying to see some positives in the change for way of living but feel very sad to the whole situation in regards to the virus and peoples life and livelihood.
Reading on here people even if it's not on football is sometimes ok and good for me.
I have mothering Sunday UK coming up which is always a difficult time for me. I have had those who took on role of mother who helped in my care after her and someone particular close with i'm at lengths to only video call rather than be with them. I find this frustration but I'm not selfish to risk my emotion needs.
One thing it's teaching me is communication and reinforcing important values.
I wish you well as note your age and send best wishes if that's ok.
Take care. And I'm sorry this isn't much about football or villa though I could say maybe it will change some footballers perspectives and values in life.
Thanks
Look after yourself mate. It'll get better.
Post by: aev on March 18, 2020, 08:58:06 PM
They obviously pooping themselves about lawsuits. Complete at all costs, whilst the rest of the country faces measures not seen for decades.
Post by: BlackCountryVilla on March 18, 2020, 08:59:57 PM
At my work we already have 17 people off (self isolating due to symptoms or family members with symptoms) Chances are that none of them have the virus and if they do they will probably be fine but you never know.
I am much more concerned with their health (and my own) than whether the season is completed!
This is going to drag on for a long time yet - we are only at the beginning....
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 18, 2020, 09:04:35 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 18, 2020, 09:37:43 PM
Post by: Damo70 on March 18, 2020, 10:57:53 PM
Post by: Louzie0 on March 18, 2020, 11:09:42 PM
...
For the big picture I am trying to see some positives in the change for way of living but feel very sad to the whole situation in regards to the virus and peoples life and livelihood.
...
I have mothering Sunday UK coming up which is always a difficult time for me. I have had those who took on role of mother who helped in my care after her and someone particular close with i'm at lengths to only video call rather than be with them. I find this frustration but I'm not selfish to risk my emotion needs.
One thing it's teaching me is communication and reinforcing important values.
I wish you well as note your age and send best wishes if that's ok.
Take care. And I'm sorry this isn't much about football or villa though I could say maybe it will change some footballers perspectives and values in life.
Thanks
Good luck, Vil I An, especially this weekend.
Post by: David_Nab on March 18, 2020, 11:52:29 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/18/premier-league-expected-to-push-for-30-june-season-finish?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
They obviously pooping themselves about lawsuits. Complete at all costs, whilst the rest of the country faces measures not seen for decades.
They are as deluded as the Japanese who still think the Olympics is going to go ahead ...things are going to get worse before they get better.
Post by: Rory on March 19, 2020, 01:14:01 AM
Fuck Liverpool, I care about Villa. And I can't help but feel that this season is our biggest risk. Stay up this year, and I reckon we'll stay up indefinitely. Then comes the resumption of our rightful place.
Without Villa, I'd have no interest in football. Who cares about Liverpool, Man Utd, West Brom, Wolves, Blose, Leeds, whoever.
We are the Villa, and nothing else matters but us.
Post by: JD on March 19, 2020, 01:45:25 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/SV4sNkT/Certificate.png) (https://ibb.co/SV4sNkT)
Post by: mr underhill on March 19, 2020, 07:13:03 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on March 19, 2020, 07:47:31 AM
Do we need football to give us back our highly paid heroes as an escape or do we need it to show solidarity with the hardships coming ?
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 08:02:19 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 08:27:11 AM
If these fuckers prioritize profit before people today then I am never attending another gameI'm not sure that trying to conclude the season has anything to do with profit - if anything it could mean the cancellation of next season and all the cash it brings.
Whilst I still think they should draw a line under this season and try to have as normal a season as possible next year, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that things may well not be back to normality until late this year maybe even early next year. If they do chose to finish this season whenever football returns then next season can't really happen. It sounds ridiculous given player contracts, transfer windows etc, but I suspect that's what some people are pushing for.
Post by: Mister E on March 19, 2020, 08:36:53 AM
Unfortunately, the football authorities have not demonstrated these characteristics much in the past; here's hoping!
...For me the footballing decisions tomorrow have to come with much needed wisdom and sense...
Post by: Dave P on March 19, 2020, 08:40:00 AM
Post by: Dave P on March 19, 2020, 08:45:43 AM
The 30th June has to be an absolute cut off and new season rules start 1st July.
I'm sort of glad the meeting is today and not last week as it's given everybody time to absorb the scale and seriousness of the situation and put everything in perspective. No-one can be put in danger to ensure someone wins a trophy!
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 08:55:21 AM
Nothing concrete will come out of the meeting today I'm sure. I'd say that all that will come out of today is a extension of the delay until late April and a "we will review the situation closer to the time". I can't see how they can do anything else. But to finish 9/10 league games plus 3 rounds of the FA Cup and European competition by June 30th, they'll need to realistically start by the end of April.
The 30th June has to be an absolute cut off and new season rules start 1st July.
I'm sort of glad the meeting is today and not last week as it's given everybody time to absorb the scale and seriousness of the situation and put everything in perspective. No-one can be put in danger to ensure someone wins a trophy!
I think they seem keen to potentially play over the summer.
Post by: mr underhill on March 19, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
Post by: Dave P on March 19, 2020, 09:20:11 AM
Nothing concrete will come out of the meeting today I'm sure. I'd say that all that will come out of today is a extension of the delay until late April and a "we will review the situation closer to the time". I can't see how they can do anything else. But to finish 9/10 league games plus 3 rounds of the FA Cup and European competition by June 30th, they'll need to realistically start by the end of April.
The 30th June has to be an absolute cut off and new season rules start 1st July.
I'm sort of glad the meeting is today and not last week as it's given everybody time to absorb the scale and seriousness of the situation and put everything in perspective. No-one can be put in danger to ensure someone wins a trophy!
I think they seem to potentially play over the summer.
Hence the announced June 30th cut off. Past July 1st presents problems with contracts and preparations for a (hopefully) full and uninterrupted season next year.
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 09:21:52 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
If the title race was close it would be voided imo. 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' being so far ahead and also being potentially their first Title since Jesus played centre forward for Nazareth Primary means the media has swung behind to work as one to prevent this potential ’injustice’.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 19, 2020, 09:56:22 AM
I’ve a lot of sympathy with that position. It seems perverse for the papers to be still full of stories of players moving for hundreds of millions of pounds and earning further millions in wages. It could however, be a viewed as a sign of welcome normalcy returning, however starkly perverse that normalcy now appears.Normalcy FFS
Do we need football to give us back our highly paid heroes as an escape or do we need it to show solidarity with the hardships coming ?
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 09:56:30 AM
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 09:58:15 AM
The current sentiment by most seems to be to finish it however long it takes. That means summer, autumn, winter whatever. Sound nuts to me but I feel that's where we're heading.
Agreed, crazy and completely out of sync with everything else going on around us.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 19, 2020, 10:06:19 AM
By the time they are able to start playing again this season will be some time in the past. Say it is a year, then I suppose they could proceed as if nothing has happened and lose the 20/21 season.The current sentiment by most seems to be to finish it however long it takes. That means summer, autumn, winter whatever. Sound nuts to me but I feel that's where we're heading.
Agreed, crazy and completely out of sync with everything else going on around us.
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 10:12:58 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2020, 10:18:25 AM
That’s even when junior squad players test positive. One out all out, that’s the precedent.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 19, 2020, 10:27:04 AM
Now they’ve suspended the season because of players getting the virus then surely they cannot re-start before every team is 100% clear. The precedent has been set.Then you are waiting for a vaccine or a point when significant numbers have had it and are immune. That would seem to be a long way off.
That’s even when junior squad players test positive. One out all out, that’s the precedent.
Post by: Luffbralion on March 19, 2020, 10:28:32 AM
I see Sky are completely being impartial by getting the views of Jamie Redknapp, Phil Thompson and John Barnes!
Can't do a link but the Times has an article stating that the league table would finish up with exactly the current positions, factoring form, quality of opposition, depth of squad, etc. It's based on a sophisticated algorithm designed by the analytics experts you have cited.
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 10:31:05 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 19, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
I can only imagine the chaos behind the scenes. It is bad enough at my work just trying to get stuff sorted out.The “how the fuck can they survive without any revenue” question must be taxing their brains right now.
Just as it is for Businesses all over the world.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 10:35:55 AM
But they havent factored in the return of SJM, all but guaranteeing us a 10 game winning run. If they don't allocate us a UEFA spot I'd be furious.I see Sky are completely being impartial by getting the views of Jamie Redknapp, Phil Thompson and John Barnes!
Can't do a link but the Times has an article stating that the league table would finish up with exactly the current positions, factoring form, quality of opposition, depth of squad, etc. It's based on a sophisticated algorithm designed by the analytics experts you have cited.
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2020, 10:37:46 AM
Now they’ve suspended the season because of players getting the virus then surely they cannot re-start before every team is 100% clear. The precedent has been set.Then you are waiting for a vaccine or a point when significant numbers have had it and are immune. That would seem to be a long way off.
That’s even when junior squad players test positive. One out all out, that’s the precedent.
Yes it would but they set the precedent when Arteta and the Chelsea player tested positive. This was before any Government restrictions. So to restart the circumstances must have improved on those when you suspended. The ‘bad light theory’ to use a cricketing analogy.
Post by: Towser on March 19, 2020, 10:44:44 AM
Lawsuits from relegated teams that have not played all games will out weigh those from teams not promoted, for exactly the same reasons, who says those clubs would have been relegated any more than who says those clubs currently in promotion positions would be promoted? plus, if thats what the Premier League decide, the Championship (and lower leagues) can't do anything about it anyway, can they?
It still doesn't sort the situation of players contracts and transfer windows etc.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 19, 2020, 11:02:46 AM
League Cup replays abolished, two leg matches scrapped until the semi-finals, European qualifiers exempted from entrance until the last thirty-two, still lots of moaning and first team players nearly always rested till the latter stages.
FA Cup multiple replays abolished and single replays abolished from an earlier round seemingly every year. Still lots of moaning and first team players nearly always rested till the latter stages.
Premier League reduced from 22 to 20 teams. Midseason break introduced. Still lots of moaning about how unfair it is that players still sometimes have to play more than one league game a week, especially at Christmas.
We've had years of being told that players are overworked and need resting.
Now, suddenly the Premier League and Sky might lose a few quid.
Play through the summer. Play every week and midweek if need be. Tough shit.
Play till the end of June then straight into preseason in July. Tired? Tough shit.
Have no real break from whenever play resumes until July next year after the Euros. Tough shit.
Players haven't been able to train for weeks and will be nowhere near fit to return for action? Tough shit.
Several players have been sick and entire teams may have had to self-isolate. Tough shit.
The government advises against all non-essential travel. Our profits ARE essential. Tough shit.
The hypocrisy is staggering.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 19, 2020, 11:21:00 AM
When you consider the thousands of kids that have been working towards something for 2 years and the government has decided to cancel the exams it does seem at odds with footballs desire to complete a season at all costs.My youngest nephew's in that situation with his A levels. Apparently predicted grades being used as "results" for taking up uni places, etc is being discussed
I'm just staggered that there is any talk about this season continuing. If Liverpool weren't so far ahead of everyone else, would there really be a discussion? Or am I being extremely naive??
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 11:35:10 AM
So... we have had years of moaning about how precious footballers can't cope with the demands of football.They're not saying any of this. They're just saying the season should be completed, whenever that may be. The probability is that will be some time in the autumn or new year. It's not about money, it's about trying to be fair to all clubs.
League Cup replays abolished, two leg matches scrapped until the semi-finals, European qualifiers exempted from entrance until the last thirty-two, still lots of moaning and first team players nearly always rested till the latter stages.
FA Cup multiple replays abolished and single replays abolished from an earlier round seemingly every year. Still lots of moaning and first team players nearly always rested till the latter stages.
Premier League reduced from 22 to 20 teams. Midseason break introduced. Still lots of moaning about how unfair it is that players still sometimes have to play more than one league game a week, especially at Christmas.
We've had years of being told that players are overworked and need resting.
Now, suddenly the Premier League and Sky might lose a few quid.
Play through the summer. Play every week and midweek if need be. Tough shit.
Play till the end of June then straight into preseason in July. Tired? Tough shit.
Have no real break from whenever play resumes until July next year after the Euros. Tough shit.
Players haven't been able to train for weeks and will be nowhere near fit to return for action? Tough shit.
Several players have been sick and entire teams may have had to self-isolate. Tough shit.
The government advises against all non-essential travel. Our profits ARE essential. Tough shit.
The hypocrisy is staggering.
I can think of loads of reasons why I think this is impractical and it would be better to void the league and start again, but frankly if they do chose to finish it then it's not about money it's about integrity.
Post by: mr underhill on March 19, 2020, 11:51:49 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 19, 2020, 11:54:30 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 12:03:34 PM
It is only about money - if there was any vestige of integrity they would have already announced the voiding of the season. Football is a business like any other and is driven by money, cash flow, profit and loss. Other businesses and their employees are facing an uncertain future, football is no different. You seem to be willfully trying to defend the indefensible - the only thing that matters at the moment is public safety and welfare.I just disagree with you. They'll lose more money cancelling next season which becomes a high probability if they choose to finish this one. Whether they finish this season starting from Sept / Oct/ Nov etc or start the new one at the same date has no impact whatsoever on public safety and welfare. All they are saying is that they want to finish the season, whenever that may be.
Again I can think of lots of rerasons why it's impractical and would prefer the season voided, but money and public safety are not one of them.
Post by: Mister E on March 19, 2020, 12:05:54 PM
Problem with algorithms is that they cannot allow for the type of Watford 3-0 Liverpool result that often happens in the final quarter of a season: the bottom of the table is too tight to call it.I see Sky are completely being impartial by getting the views of Jamie Redknapp, Phil Thompson and John Barnes!
Can't do a link but the Times has an article stating that the league table would finish up with exactly the current positions, factoring form, quality of opposition, depth of squad, etc. It's based on a sophisticated algorithm designed by the analytics experts you have cited.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 19, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
The season is over. The only discussion should be what format the next one takes.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 12:10:03 PM
June 30th is the cut off, isn't it? The only way they can possibly get it finished by then is by forcing players to play midweek then weekend over and over until all the games are done. Even though many have had no training and others will have been self-isolating either as a precaution or due to actual infection.There is prospect of it being played by 30th June. With that said I don't think it's an unmovable cut off. It seems to me the general sentiment is to play it later in the year, whenever that may be.
The season is over. The only discussion should be what format the next one takes.
Post by: Towser on March 19, 2020, 12:10:24 PM
June 30th is the cut off, isn't it? The only way they can possibly get it finished by then is by forcing players to play midweek then weekend over and over until all the games are done. Even though many have had no training and others will have been self-isolating either as a precaution or due to actual infection.And with little or no training comes the added risk of long term injuries, what happens then?
The season is over. The only discussion should be what format the next one takes.
Post by: Mister E on March 19, 2020, 12:16:05 PM
It's not about money, it's about trying to be fair to all clubs ... if they do chose to finish it then it's not about money it's about integrity.I think the League's current stance is actually about hope over reality: they want to complete because then next season can kick off in reasonable time, safeguarding future income streams.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's integrity.
Reality will kick into today's meeting when they accept that we are actually dealing with a global crisis which far transcends football and this season. But - as someone above said - the League are unlikely to make any firm decisions until EUFA decides on the currently-incomplete Euro competitions.
Post by: algy on March 19, 2020, 12:34:37 PM
June 30th is the cut off, isn't it? The only way they can possibly get it finished by then is by forcing players to play midweek then weekend over and over until all the games are done. Even though many have had no training and others will have been self-isolating either as a precaution or due to actual infection.I don't see what the issue is with having the season go on after 30th June. As I'd mentioned before, players get transferred mid-season (e.g. January transfer window), and for some players their contracts end sort-of mid season (e.g. Irish players during the UEFA Cup / Scottish Challenge Cup - if you mind the Bohemians 'situation' last season!). It's not ideal, but I don't think it's a particularly major issue in the grand scheme of things.
The season is over. The only discussion should be what format the next one takes.
A lot of this will depend on how long everything goes on for. If football can resume in August 2020, that's a very different proposition from it resuming in April 2021, or August 2021.
If it's April 2021, it makes sense to just start the season where this one has finished off. Either that, or choose to restart in August 2021.
If it's August 2021, you'd have to start asking how valid the results of matches that happened in 2019 were, and if it would be better just to start from scratch / void everything
However, if it restarts this summer (August 2020), you have a dilemma of trying to fit both the end of the 2019/20 season and whole of the 2020/21 seasons in to 11 or 12 months. Probably involving cancelling the league cup and reducing the number of games in other cup competitions.
I don't think we'll get a decisive decision other than 'postpone for the next N weeks' until all of it's over. The solution will need to be so closely tied to the date the season resumes that I can't see you could realistically make a long term decision on it just yet.
Post by: sid1964 on March 19, 2020, 12:41:14 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 19, 2020, 12:41:40 PM
Will be interesting to see when other major european leagues restart (if they do of course given the grim situation in Italy and Spain atm). Premier league will take their cue from that.
Football will be back eventually but we're talking many months. Same for the other major sports.
Post by: Brassneck on March 19, 2020, 12:42:59 PM
June 30th is the cut off, isn't it? The only way they can possibly get it finished by then is by forcing players to play midweek then weekend over and over until all the games are done. Even though many have had no training and others will have been self-isolating either as a precaution or due to actual infection.I don't see what the issue is with having the season go on after 30th June. As I'd mentioned before, players get transferred mid-season (e.g. January transfer window), and for some players their contracts end sort-of mid season (e.g. Irish players during the UEFA Cup / Scottish Challenge Cup - if you mind the Bohemians 'situation' last season!). It's not ideal, but I don't think it's a particularly major issue in the grand scheme of things.
The season is over. The only discussion should be what format the next one takes.
A lot of this will depend on how long everything goes on for. If football can resume in August 2020, that's a very different proposition from it resuming in April 2021, or August 2021.
If it's April 2021, it makes sense to just start the season where this one has finished off. Either that, or choose to restart in August 2021.
If it's August 2021, you'd have to start asking how valid the results of matches that happened in 2019 were, and if it would be better just to start from scratch / void everything
However, if it restarts this summer (August 2020), you have a dilemma of trying to fit both the end of the 2019/20 season and whole of the 2020/21 seasons in to 11 or 12 months. Probably involving cancelling the league cup and reducing the number of games in other cup competitions.
I don't think we'll get a decisive decision other than 'postpone for the next N weeks' until all of it's over. The solution will need to be so closely tied to the date the season resumes that I can't see you could realistically make a long term decision on it just yet.
So in a season where we'd built the team around Jack and relied heavily on him, we could possibly lose him for the final few games. That goes against all principles of what a season is about.
To continue, you would need to add another 2 weeks minimum for play off places.
We can't possibly have a decisive decision as things are changing so rapidly. This time last week, everyone was planning on going to the game against Chelsea.
The new issue for me is that training has been suspended. I know it's the same for everyone but I don't see how you can prepare a professional side for games with no training. Surely they'd want 2 weeks together minimum, prior to starting back up? This 2 weeks would eat into the window left for finishing.
I agree with Mister E - The season is dead and it is just wishful thinking to think that it can be completed (without impacting the following season)
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 19, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 19, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
More likely way past that date.
Post by: jwarry on March 19, 2020, 01:10:48 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on March 19, 2020, 01:11:37 PM
Quote
Sam Wallace
@SamWallaceTel
·
3m
Premier League announces that, along with FA & EFL, it has scrapped rule that season must end by June 1 & extended "indefinitely". Message is clear: season 2019-2020 will be completed. No games until April 30 at earliest
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 19, 2020, 01:12:52 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 19, 2020, 01:25:08 PM
Season extended indefinitely. Bollocks.
Oh shit!
Post by: spangley1812 on March 19, 2020, 01:28:05 PM
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 01:28:24 PM
What then happens? Can it only restart once all players are virus free ?
Post by: nick harper on March 19, 2020, 01:28:56 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 19, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
QuoteSam Wallace
@SamWallaceTel
·
3m
Premier League announces that, along with FA & EFL, it has scrapped rule that season must end by June 1 & extended "indefinitely". Message is clear: season 2019-2020 will be completed. No games until April 30 at earliest
Stupid decision to put in the term "indefinitely", they've no idea when games can resume. April 30th? They're having a laugh. As things stand, Season 20/21 looks more likely to be canceled now.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 19, 2020, 01:30:48 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 19, 2020, 01:33:25 PM
They will start playing behind closed doors around the middle of May I reckon as they need about 6 weeks to finish the season by 30/06/2020
The country will be in lockdown by then. Anyone attempting to get to a football match, whether as player or spectator, should be told to stay at home. Football is not an essential service.
They are behaving recklessly, putting profits over people's lives.
Post by: brian green on March 19, 2020, 01:42:17 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 01:43:58 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 19, 2020, 01:46:44 PM
That proposal is irresponsible
Indeed. The message it sends out to the country, 'don't worry, nothing to see here, things will soon be back to normal' is today as far away from reality as you could imagine.
Post by: mallo on March 19, 2020, 01:46:56 PM
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
That proposal is irresponsible
Indeed. The message it sends out to the country, 'don't worry, nothing to see here, things will soon be back to normal' is today as far away from reality as you could imagine.
If they can cancel exams after 2yrs of studying for kids you’d think they might be realise there are bigger things going on.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 19, 2020, 01:51:52 PM
UEFA could of course use some common sense and make CL and europa straight knock out from the start and stop the ridiculous stretching out of round 16 games over a month but not holding my breath on that one.
Ultimately football calendar is going to be out of sync for quite a while. We are only two and a half years away from a world cup taking place in November of a season after all so would have to play in the summer of that season anyway.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 19, 2020, 01:54:01 PM
I don't think anything will be settled on until UEFA confirms that its 20/21 club competitions are either abandoned or going ahead. If it's the former, I expect every 19/20 domestic European league will be abandoned within minutes.
Great point and just maybe that's what the premier league and this country is using - in as much as waiting for hand to be forced and absolved from responsibility.
Playing the whole 'it's been imposed upon us' card. Extending suspension and this announcement today readily allows for UEFA to be the final decisions making as implications to European competition has knock on effects to domestic leagues.
Yup, us on here are bothered because we're currently in the bottom 3, but I don't for one moment think that the piffling matter of who might get relegated registers with the game's stakeholders in the same way that which of Arsenal, Chelsea, ManU, SheffU, Spurs or Wolves dramatically grab that last CL spot. UEFA knock it on the head, it'll be; sorry chaps, football has spoken; 'The Mighty Reds YNWA', metaphorical pat on the back, here's a meaningless trophy; see you all whenever, it's as you were, and 'we go again'.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 01:54:52 PM
That's irreleveant. Assuming you accept that one day football will start again, whether that be Autumn, winter or spring, they are just saying when it starts again they will finish the current season first.That proposal is irresponsible
Indeed. The message it sends out to the country, 'don't worry, nothing to see here, things will soon be back to normal' is today as far away from reality as you could imagine.
If they can cancel exams after 2yrs of studying for kids you’d think they might be realise there are bigger things going on.
There may be loads of logistical reasons why we think that won't work, but it's not irresponsible, callous, about money or whatever else you want to throw at it.
I want them to void the season as much as anyone, but we need to stop being so melodramatic in our response to what was a highly predictable outcome.
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 02:04:46 PM
That's irreleveant. Assuming you accept that one day football will start again, whether that be Autumn, winter or spring, they are just saying when it starts again they will finish the current season first.That proposal is irresponsible
Indeed. The message it sends out to the country, 'don't worry, nothing to see here, things will soon be back to normal' is today as far away from reality as you could imagine.
If they can cancel exams after 2yrs of studying for kids you’d think they might be realise there are bigger things going on.
There may be loads of logistical reasons why we think that won't work, but it's not irresponsible, callous, about money or whatever else you want to throw at it.
I want them to void the season as much as anyone, but we need to stop being so melodramatic in our response to what was a highly predictable outcome.
You think it is irrelevant, I don’t.
The country, scrub that, the wider world is all over the place currently. All sorts of decisions are being made that days ago would be unthinkable to try and steer a course through the chaos.
Post by: nick harper on March 19, 2020, 02:13:01 PM
More important things to worry about right now but that is the probable scenario if they stick to their intention.
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 02:16:53 PM
Whislt it would be great I am not sure it does much for the integrity of the competition.
It seems to me that the money making machine has to keep on chugging on no matter what else is going on around it.
Post by: Chris Smith on March 19, 2020, 02:19:48 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 02:20:04 PM
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
What does that mean, how do you measure that ?
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 19, 2020, 02:28:26 PM
The discussions with FIFA UEFA the Sponsors and Governments will be ongoing and having to take into account the situation with the Virus.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 19, 2020, 02:28:32 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on March 19, 2020, 02:30:38 PM
“The virus is ongoing”.
What does that mean, how do you measure that ?
Until there is a vaccine available I guess.
Post by: Drummond on March 19, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
They'll extend indefinitely to give time to make decisions and see what happens. Doesn't mean they can't change their minds again.
Behind closed doors would still be a gathering of at least 25 people, 22 of whom would be in physical contact. Plus managers, coaches, subs, groundsmen, doctors, physios etc. They may well not be allowed to play on.
Who really gives a shit anyway. Plenty of people are going to die and finally expunge Bill Shankly's quote. I miss sport being on, but in the grand scheme of things....
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 19, 2020, 02:31:03 PM
I don’t think this decision means that much and is probably the only logical decision they can take at this time.
The discussions with FIFA UEFA the Sponsors and Governments will be ongoing and having to take into account the situation with the Virus.
If I was in government right now, and a football association came up to me about this, I don't think I'd stop laughing for a week.
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 02:33:10 PM
“The virus is ongoing”.
What does that mean, how do you measure that ?
Until there is a vaccine available I guess.
Maybe 18 months then.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 19, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Or isolation measures have been relaxed and public places reopen. Again, it's not that hard.“The virus is ongoing”.
What does that mean, how do you measure that ?
Until there is a vaccine available I guess.
Post by: aev on March 19, 2020, 02:36:50 PM
Or isolation measures have been relaxed and public places reopen. Again, it's not that hard.“The virus is ongoing”.
What does that mean, how do you measure that ?
Until there is a vaccine available I guess.
Well they stopped football when there were no measures in place.
Sorry, obviously not as intelligent as you.
Post by: The Edge on March 19, 2020, 02:46:00 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 19, 2020, 03:28:26 PM
This is very bad timing from the football governing bodies. People are dying they shouldn't even be speculating about when we can start playing football again. It's a full contact sport and passing on a virus among players would be catastrophic. The only responsible words from them right now would be to advise everyone to follow guidelines, keep safe and "we will address all outstanding football related issues when we are told by the authorities that it's safe to do so"
They'll let us play then, as none of our players get within 6 feet of the oppositions.
Post by: Mister E on March 19, 2020, 04:10:09 PM
2019-20 season to be extended indefinitely so we are going to have to finish our games no matter what'indefinitely' is their current position. These things usually do not come to pass, since other factors will come into play (EUFA's view on European tournaments, FIFA's view on contract-extensions, the length of the peak of the virus in different territories, etc).
Post by: mallo on March 19, 2020, 05:26:21 PM
Post by: The Edge on March 19, 2020, 05:34:52 PM
C'mon don't be so defeatist. UTVThis is very bad timing from the football governing bodies. People are dying they shouldn't even be speculating about when we can start playing football again. It's a full contact sport and passing on a virus among players would be catastrophic. The only responsible words from them right now would be to advise everyone to follow guidelines, keep safe and "we will address all outstanding football related issues when we are told by the authorities that it's safe to do so"
They'll let us play then, as none of our players get within 6 feet of the oppositions.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 19, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
I get your sentiment but it is multi billion industry that generates a lot of revenue and employment. That is before you take into account public morale and the need to at some point get back to some sort of normality.I don’t think this decision means that much and is probably the only logical decision they can take at this time.
The discussions with FIFA UEFA the Sponsors and Governments will be ongoing and having to take into account the situation with the Virus.
If I was in government right now, and a football association came up to me about this, I don't think I'd stop laughing for a week.
Post by: Villan82 on March 19, 2020, 10:37:03 PM
Void the damned league.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 19, 2020, 10:48:26 PM
“In moments of crisis the real leaders stand up and make tough decisions, which sometimes go against the grain of essentially what’s happening,”
“The government at that time [the beginning of the pandemic], through Boris Johnson, were essentially zig-zagging all over the place with their messages.
“Even today he’s talked about ‘let’s protect each other.’ I watched his address earlier on and he talked about self-isolating, protect yourself and each other, be resilient on this, but he’s not shut clubs, bars, restaurants, pubs – schools aren’t closing until tomorrow evening.”
“The messages are so conflicting from the government and, to be fair, economically driven at times, I have to say.”
"I felt the Premier League saying that the games would continue for another weekend was almost ‘winging it’ to try and get another round in,”
“I understand the complexities of it, but I do feel decisive leadership is important...Every time I see the chief medical officer [Chris Whitty] stood next to Boris Johnson, he looks more and more uncomfortable.
“He did explain his strategy with the prime minister present, and then was challenged by 200 other scientists over the weekend and then Matt Hancock on a Sunday programme suggested they weren’t going to pursue that strategy.
“Ultimately, I’m not a scientist, but you have to have consistency of message and decisive leadership."
Post by: Slaphead on March 19, 2020, 10:54:20 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 19, 2020, 10:58:56 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 19, 2020, 11:01:56 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 20, 2020, 12:10:15 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 20, 2020, 12:36:20 AM
That class of '92 lot are annoyingly likeable.
I'd say only Neville is alright.
Post by: Axl Rose on March 20, 2020, 12:37:39 AM
That class of '92 lot are annoyingly likeable.
I'd say only Neville is alright.
At a push.
Post by: OzVilla on March 20, 2020, 06:48:59 AM
I still have a strong suspicion that 30th June is the date where by things will change should the PL games not be completed by then. Once the contracts begin the expire around players, kits, next season etc it'll start to get very messy very quickly. UEFA saying they want all leagues completed by 30 June also gives them an out should enough clubs wish to take it.
Up till then they should be doing their best to carry on (which they clearly can't at present). On the football playing side, I still think we've got more than enough to stay up as this break works better for us than any other club down there, we really needed the time out to reset more than anyone.
My hunch is still that unless we can get things going again by mid May it'll be off.
Post by: algy on March 20, 2020, 07:00:56 AM
That class of '92 lot are annoyingly likeable.Gary Neville consistently comes across as a thoroughly decent bloke. Got a lot of time for the chap.
Post by: sid1964 on March 20, 2020, 07:05:04 AM
Personally I think Boris is saying what he is being advised to say by the scientists, thankfully we do not have that Idiot Corbyn in charge, if he told me it was raining I would look out the window and check.
With regards to Villa - we only have to play Sheffield United and then we will have played the same number of games as teams who are in the relegation zone - could we not just have a one off game against them? I fear if no further games are played by 30th June then we will be relegated (and in truth we deserve to be as we have been so poor for large parts of the season)
Post by: PeterWithe on March 20, 2020, 07:06:26 AM
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 07:16:44 AM
I'm not surprised by this announcement, its basically what they had to commit too from both a legal and an integrity stand point.
I still have a strong suspicion that 30th June is the date where by things will change should the PL games not be completed by then. Once the contracts begin the expire around players, kits, next season etc it'll start to get very messy very quickly. UEFA saying they want all leagues completed by 30 June also gives them an out should enough clubs wish to take it.
Up till then they should be doing their best to carry on (which they clearly can't at present). On the football playing side, I still think we've got more than enough to stay up as this break works better for us than any other club down there, we really needed the time out to reset more than anyone.
My hunch is still that unless we can get things going again by mid May it'll be off.
This is more or less where I am.
The league & clubs stand to lose around 25% of their TV money so if there is a way of getting those games played, they will play them.
I worry about behind closed doors as I don't think that's fair and given we would have to play one more home game than others that way, I would hope that we would argue against it.
If there is a chance of getting next season underway, then that will take priority.
My only thought is that they could delay it a month and scrap the cups (which would bring in less revenue than 25% of league fixtures). Even then, it couldn't go much past June 30th. Play offs would have to be allowed 2 weeks. Then we have the FA Cup - What would you do with that? Teams like Newcastle would want to continue. The CL would certainly continue if possible, meaning Man City would have even more games.
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 07:22:15 AM
A few reports that the PL TV contract has clauses that would mean a repayment of £760m to Sky if the season remains unfinished.
It would be around 25% of the entire season. Not sure how much the total is.
Given that we spent around £130 million, assuming that was our TV money, times that by 20 and your figure doesn't seem too far out. It's an absolutely frightening amount of money.
Post by: Mister E on March 20, 2020, 07:54:17 AM
The question will be: what the appetite will be for season 2019-20 completion vs. season 2020-21 commencement.
The TV Companies will have a view on that, as will EUFA (the latter's opinion will be governed by the progress of the virus elsewhere in Europe, and the balance of the Euros in 2021 vs. qualification for the 2022 World Cup).
Lots of variables.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 20, 2020, 08:30:16 AM
My sense is they'd rather sacrifice next season and get this season finished, whatever the cost and timescale. It seems crazy to me, but I'm convinced that's the way they're leaning.I'm not surprised by this announcement, its basically what they had to commit too from both a legal and an integrity stand point.
I still have a strong suspicion that 30th June is the date where by things will change should the PL games not be completed by then. Once the contracts begin the expire around players, kits, next season etc it'll start to get very messy very quickly. UEFA saying they want all leagues completed by 30 June also gives them an out should enough clubs wish to take it.
Up till then they should be doing their best to carry on (which they clearly can't at present). On the football playing side, I still think we've got more than enough to stay up as this break works better for us than any other club down there, we really needed the time out to reset more than anyone.
My hunch is still that unless we can get things going again by mid May it'll be off.
This is more or less where I am.
The league & clubs stand to lose around 25% of their TV money so if there is a way of getting those games played, they will play them.
I worry about behind closed doors as I don't think that's fair and given we would have to play one more home game than others that way, I would hope that we would argue against it.
If there is a chance of getting next season underway, then that will take priority.
My only thought is that they could delay it a month and scrap the cups (which would bring in less revenue than 25% of league fixtures). Even then, it couldn't go much past June 30th. Play offs would have to be allowed 2 weeks. Then we have the FA Cup - What would you do with that? Teams like Newcastle would want to continue. The CL would certainly continue if possible, meaning Man City would have even more games.
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 08:49:07 AM
My sense is they'd rather sacrifice next season and get this season finished, whatever the cost and timescale. It seems crazy to me, but I'm convinced that's the way they're leaning.I'm not surprised by this announcement, its basically what they had to commit too from both a legal and an integrity stand point.
I still have a strong suspicion that 30th June is the date where by things will change should the PL games not be completed by then. Once the contracts begin the expire around players, kits, next season etc it'll start to get very messy very quickly. UEFA saying they want all leagues completed by 30 June also gives them an out should enough clubs wish to take it.
Up till then they should be doing their best to carry on (which they clearly can't at present). On the football playing side, I still think we've got more than enough to stay up as this break works better for us than any other club down there, we really needed the time out to reset more than anyone.
My hunch is still that unless we can get things going again by mid May it'll be off.
This is more or less where I am.
The league & clubs stand to lose around 25% of their TV money so if there is a way of getting those games played, they will play them.
I worry about behind closed doors as I don't think that's fair and given we would have to play one more home game than others that way, I would hope that we would argue against it.
If there is a chance of getting next season underway, then that will take priority.
My only thought is that they could delay it a month and scrap the cups (which would bring in less revenue than 25% of league fixtures). Even then, it couldn't go much past June 30th. Play offs would have to be allowed 2 weeks. Then we have the FA Cup - What would you do with that? Teams like Newcastle would want to continue. The CL would certainly continue if possible, meaning Man City would have even more games.
I think they're pinning their hopes on behind closed doors games with the red button facility on Sky & BT. I'm set against it because of the disadvantage it places on ourselves.
I haven't read anything that makes me think they are putting next season ahead of this one. They are just announcing the only things that are realistically possible (ie suspending games).
The big issue is the amount of TV money that they stand to lose. I've just read that this season was a record due to added investment from overseas channels. One solution would be to reduce payments over the next 3 years in order to allow for what was lost (by TV companies) this season.
Post by: aev on March 20, 2020, 09:17:51 AM
A few reports that the PL TV contract has clauses that would mean a repayment of £760m to Sky if the season remains unfinished.
Anyone would think the decision is based upon money as opposed to the integrity of the season.
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 09:50:01 AM
A few reports that the PL TV contract has clauses that would mean a repayment of £760m to Sky if the season remains unfinished.
Anyone would think the decision is based upon money as opposed to the integrity of the season.
If there was any integrity, there wouldn't be such a mad panic to get games completed at all costs.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on March 20, 2020, 09:51:26 AM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on March 20, 2020, 09:58:09 AM
My sense is they'd rather sacrifice next season and get this season finished, whatever the cost and timescale. It seems crazy to me, but I'm convinced that's the way they're leaning.I'm not surprised by this announcement, its basically what they had to commit too from both a legal and an integrity stand point.
I still have a strong suspicion that 30th June is the date where by things will change should the PL games not be completed by then. Once the contracts begin the expire around players, kits, next season etc it'll start to get very messy very quickly. UEFA saying they want all leagues completed by 30 June also gives them an out should enough clubs wish to take it.
Up till then they should be doing their best to carry on (which they clearly can't at present). On the football playing side, I still think we've got more than enough to stay up as this break works better for us than any other club down there, we really needed the time out to reset more than anyone.
My hunch is still that unless we can get things going again by mid May it'll be off.
This is more or less where I am.
The league & clubs stand to lose around 25% of their TV money so if there is a way of getting those games played, they will play them.
I worry about behind closed doors as I don't think that's fair and given we would have to play one more home game than others that way, I would hope that we would argue against it.
If there is a chance of getting next season underway, then that will take priority.
My only thought is that they could delay it a month and scrap the cups (which would bring in less revenue than 25% of league fixtures). Even then, it couldn't go much past June 30th. Play offs would have to be allowed 2 weeks. Then we have the FA Cup - What would you do with that? Teams like Newcastle would want to continue. The CL would certainly continue if possible, meaning Man City would have even more games.
It is. That’s a fact now. It was widely reported yesterday that that is now the plan.
Post by: LeeB on March 20, 2020, 10:04:54 AM
I can confirm Connor Hourihane is keeping fit. He’s jogged past me this morning as I walked back from the kids school. 3rd time I’ve seen him this week. He must be getting bored.
He was sprinting, it just looks like jogging by everyone else's standards.
Post by: aev on March 20, 2020, 10:26:10 AM
Sorry this is from the RFU above. My cutting and pasting on a phone is shocking so apologies.
Post by: eamonn on March 20, 2020, 10:34:08 AM
That class of '92 lot are annoyingly likeable.
I'd say only Neville is alright.
Odd that Giggs doesn't get half the stick Terry did for an extra-marital affair. Cheating with your brother's missus arguably a lot more despicable than with a team-mate's partner.
Post by: j66acd on March 20, 2020, 10:56:23 AM
Post by: clash city rocker on March 20, 2020, 10:59:24 AM
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 11:12:26 AM
Could this be the moment the premiership gravy train stops and wages are cut ?
Hopefully.
However, it could mean that we are fast tracked back up the pecking order. We ought to be financially stronger than teams like Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton etc so this may give us a leg up.
Purslow recently stated that it would take 4 years of PL status to catch up with those teams. This crisis could drag them back down.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 20, 2020, 11:51:23 AM
Could this be the moment the premiership gravy train stops and wages are cut ?
Gravy train is believed to have originally been a railroad term, referring to a train run that paid well with little effort on the part of the crew.
Though I understand that it's no one is on board a literal train of gravy. I find the term interesting when I heard it.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 20, 2020, 11:53:11 AM
There isn't a mad panic - 'however long it takes' is the mantra. I still don't think it's about money - they will lose more money by writing off next season.A few reports that the PL TV contract has clauses that would mean a repayment of £760m to Sky if the season remains unfinished.
Anyone would think the decision is based upon money as opposed to the integrity of the season.
If there was any integrity, there wouldn't be such a mad panic to get games completed at all costs.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 20, 2020, 11:54:56 AM
How will we be Financially stronger ? Other than our owners.Could this be the moment the premiership gravy train stops and wages are cut ?
Hopefully.
However, it could mean that we are fast tracked back up the pecking order. We ought to be financially stronger than teams like Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton etc so this may give us a leg up.
Purslow recently stated that it would take 4 years of PL status to catch up with those teams. This crisis could drag them back down.
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 11:57:21 AM
There isn't a mad panic - 'however long it takes' is the mantra. I still don't think it's about money - they will lose more money by writing off next season.A few reports that the PL TV contract has clauses that would mean a repayment of £760m to Sky if the season remains unfinished.
Anyone would think the decision is based upon money as opposed to the integrity of the season.
If there was any integrity, there wouldn't be such a mad panic to get games completed at all costs.
There is a mad panic for the reason you've just stated - They will lose more money next season.
And that is why I believe that if it's possible to start next season by September, that will take priority over finishing this one.
The only public statement has been that the games have been suspended indefinitely. People are reading this to mean they've been suspended until they are safe to play. This is of course incorrect and whilst it may well be "indefinitely" today, it won't always remain that way. At some point, they will draw a line under it.
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 12:01:32 PM
How will we be Financially stronger ? Other than our owners.Could this be the moment the premiership gravy train stops and wages are cut ?
Hopefully.
However, it could mean that we are fast tracked back up the pecking order. We ought to be financially stronger than teams like Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton etc so this may give us a leg up.
Purslow recently stated that it would take 4 years of PL status to catch up with those teams. This crisis could drag them back down.
You've answered your own question.
Clubs are going to be in pretty dire straits. FFP will be relaxed but how much will other owners be prepared to plough in? They will more likely cash in on assets - Something they haven't had to do in recent seasons.
It's not necessarily about being financially stronger, more that those clubs will be sucked back down.
Post by: darren woolley on March 20, 2020, 12:09:24 PM
Post by: andyh on March 20, 2020, 12:14:06 PM
Will there be any sort of insurance cover for loss of revenue?act of god.
no chance of cover
Post by: Stansab on March 20, 2020, 12:17:08 PM
Post by: Mister E on March 20, 2020, 12:24:36 PM
Most informed people in the media are now saying that 12 weeks is the minimum time from now where the virus might start to be in retreat and possibly another 12 weeks before it has been substantially 'tamed'. So, sometime between the end of June and the end of September football might be in a position to resume.I really meant in terms of the financial pros and cons of completing this season and not curtailing the next. Financially, I would imagine starting the new season and maximising the revenue during 2020-21 would be a better option than trying to complete this season and then going off half-cocked into the next.The issue - and this really is the issue, I think - is the management of all the TV companies and sponsors in respect of funds committed and responsibilities discharged.
The question will be: what will the appetite be for season 2019-20 completion vs. season 2020-21 commencement.
The TV Companies will have a view on that, as will EUFA (the latter's opinion will be governed by the progress of the virus elsewhere in Europe, and the balance of the Euros in 2021 vs. qualification for the 2022 World Cup).
Lots of variables.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 20, 2020, 12:53:21 PM
That class of '92 lot are annoyingly likeable.
I'd say only Neville is alright.
Odd that Giggs doesn't get half the stick Terry did for an extra-marital affair. Cheating with your brother's missus arguably a lot more despicable than with a team-mate's partner.
I didn't single out Giggs for abuse as wasn't sure if he was part of the 1992 team and couldn't be arsed to check, but agree entirely. An absolute ****** of a man.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 20, 2020, 12:55:39 PM
Will there be any sort of insurance cover for loss of revenue?
I think we only had Third Party, Fire and Theft cover
Post by: aev on March 20, 2020, 01:04:46 PM
Post by: darren woolley on March 20, 2020, 01:27:22 PM
Will there be any sort of insurance cover for loss of revenue?
I think we only had Third Party, Fire and Theft cover
Cheers Chico.
Post by: Villan82 on March 20, 2020, 02:16:27 PM
Could this be the moment the premiership gravy train stops and wages are cut ?
Have been thinking that.
My wife and I have been watching old reviews of the 90s seasons (she isn't into football) and she kept saying 'it seemed like it was more fun back then?'.
Maybe the game will come back down to earth-maybe it will level up the playing field.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 20, 2020, 03:50:24 PM
This is why I don't think the decision to complete the current season however long it takes is driven by money. I honestly feel the people pushing for us to finish the season, even at the cost of next season if needs be, are doing it for reasons of integrity. I wish they wouldn't. but that seems to be the overall sentiment at the moment.Most informed people in the media are now saying that 12 weeks is the minimum time from now where the virus might start to be in retreat and possibly another 12 weeks before it has been substantially 'tamed'. So, sometime between the end of June and the end of September football might be in a position to resume.I really meant in terms of the financial pros and cons of completing this season and not curtailing the next. Financially, I would imagine starting the new season and maximising the revenue during 2020-21 would be a better option than trying to complete this season and then going off half-cocked into the next.The issue - and this really is the issue, I think - is the management of all the TV companies and sponsors in respect of funds committed and responsibilities discharged.
The question will be: what will the appetite be for season 2019-20 completion vs. season 2020-21 commencement.
The TV Companies will have a view on that, as will EUFA (the latter's opinion will be governed by the progress of the virus elsewhere in Europe, and the balance of the Euros in 2021 vs. qualification for the 2022 World Cup).
Lots of variables.
Post by: usav on March 20, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
My wife and I have been watching old reviews of the 90s seasons (she isn't into football) and she kept saying 'it seemed like it was more fun back then?'.
To be fair, we were much better then.
Post by: Brassneck on March 20, 2020, 04:28:28 PM
This is why I don't think the decision to complete the current season however long it takes is driven by money. I honestly feel the people pushing for us to finish the season, even at the cost of next season if needs be, are doing it for reasons of integrity. I wish they wouldn't. but that seems to be the overall sentiment at the moment.Most informed people in the media are now saying that 12 weeks is the minimum time from now where the virus might start to be in retreat and possibly another 12 weeks before it has been substantially 'tamed'. So, sometime between the end of June and the end of September football might be in a position to resume.I really meant in terms of the financial pros and cons of completing this season and not curtailing the next. Financially, I would imagine starting the new season and maximising the revenue during 2020-21 would be a better option than trying to complete this season and then going off half-cocked into the next.The issue - and this really is the issue, I think - is the management of all the TV companies and sponsors in respect of funds committed and responsibilities discharged.
The question will be: what will the appetite be for season 2019-20 completion vs. season 2020-21 commencement.
The TV Companies will have a view on that, as will EUFA (the latter's opinion will be governed by the progress of the virus elsewhere in Europe, and the balance of the Euros in 2021 vs. qualification for the 2022 World Cup).
Lots of variables.
There is nobody pushing us to finish. The decision will be made by way of a vote from the 20 PL clubs. West Ham have already stated that they would like the season to be voided. Brighton have said something similar in a roundabout way.
Do you think Norwich are going to vote to finish out of some desire to maintain integrity?
Post by: pelty on March 20, 2020, 04:46:35 PM
A) completing the present season at some point so as to ensure the integrity of the game (which, I gather, is the option the FA are leaning toward).
B) Resetting the season with the present teams since it would be harsh to send teams down without having the full slate of games to earn their relegation (my "wishful thinking" scenario)
C) Declaring the season over and relegating the bottom three and declaring LFC champions (this would be very difficult to stomach given our present position, but I could see it as one of those "too bad, so sad" moments).
Am I missing any others? Have you heard anything other than A) being seriously discussed? I feel like I am just getting dribs and drabs of information over here. I imagine this all has been discussed somewhere in this thread, but I did not want to wade through 83 pages, so please forgive me for the repetition. Thanks.
Post by: Legion on March 20, 2020, 04:49:58 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 20, 2020, 04:52:36 PM
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the Exchequer will also be appearing .
Post by: Legion on March 20, 2020, 04:58:34 PM
Boris Johnson daily news briefing scheduled at around 502pm
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the Exchequer will also be appearing .
There is a general Covid-19 thread over in Off Topic for non Villa-related matters.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 20, 2020, 05:04:41 PM
Ok it's on nowBoris Johnson daily news briefing scheduled at around 502pm
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the Exchequer will also be appearing .
There is a general Covid-19 thread over in Off Topic for non Villa-related matters.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 20, 2020, 05:07:48 PM
I think A) is the intention however unlikely it might be, B) is what would suit us and C) would be unfair given the game in hand issue.
C would be unfair right up to the last game if it was mathematically possible that any team could avoid the drop. Liverpool being awarded the league is one thing. What then for all the European places? Law suits a plenty if C is the option.
B is the only solution in the present format.
European places is a reset also.
Post by: garyfouroaks on March 20, 2020, 05:18:20 PM
Post by: Damo70 on March 20, 2020, 05:29:32 PM
Post by: pelty on March 20, 2020, 05:40:07 PM
I think A) is the intention however unlikely it might be, B) is what would suit us and C) would be unfair given the game in hand issue.
B is the only solution in the present format.
I hope you are right!
Post by: Somniloquism on March 20, 2020, 05:57:26 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 20, 2020, 05:58:44 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 20, 2020, 06:01:17 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 20, 2020, 06:17:06 PM
Sky Sports News headline popped up on my fruit based device indicating European leagues would restart in mid-may.
I think there's more chance of Kirk Douglas restarting in mid-May.
Post by: Richard E on March 20, 2020, 06:24:47 PM
Post by: Mister E on March 20, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
Sky Sports News headline popped up on my fruit based device indicating European leagues would restart in mid-may.The latest thinking is that the health serivce will be managed by allowing phases of scoial distancing and phases of relaxed rules regarding social distancing; all over a 12 month period.
This implies that they are expecting waves of viral infection, so sport generally may well not be happening for a long while yet - quite how clubs will manage contracts and loans if that is the case remains to be seen.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 20, 2020, 06:26:37 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 20, 2020, 06:35:59 PM
Post by: JJ-AV on March 20, 2020, 06:46:29 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
Absolutely.
As an aside - betting companies are trying to get e-sports on TV to get an industry going around that. Awful behaviour.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 20, 2020, 06:54:02 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.Completely Agree.
Post by: Dominic22 on March 20, 2020, 07:00:55 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
That would be me. I have spent a good portion of my life following Villa everywhere they have gone and spent most my life thinking about the club if that's the game just gone the one coming up injuries etc etc. I know we are in the throws of this thing so it is very difficult to get perspective but when we are looking at a region's in Spain and Italy with near 10% mortality rate and having to make choices to write anyone off ill over 70 even the talk of starting no matter how fanciful is very distasteful. I cannot watch the inane chatter of thick ex-pro's talking about integrity anymore so don't.
It looks by all the modelling that we are going to get hit very very hard and most of us have elderly parents or are elderly ourselves. Villa all of a sudden don't feel important and I am not sure they will ever feel so again.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 20, 2020, 07:12:05 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
Exactly. It absolutely must not happen.
Post by: colin69 on March 20, 2020, 07:57:07 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
100%
I don’t give a shit about football at the moment, this season and next season is totally irrelevant at the moment.
Post by: phantom limb on March 20, 2020, 08:45:27 PM
Post by: steamer on March 20, 2020, 09:17:20 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.while they may want to I think it will not be their decision to make
Post by: PeterWithe on March 20, 2020, 09:42:09 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
Yup and as money talks very loudly I’ve already started sowing the seeds of non league with my companions
If there is a non league left of course
Post by: Risso on March 20, 2020, 09:44:36 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
Yep, and me.
Post by: Richard E on March 20, 2020, 09:45:38 PM
Post by: colin69 on March 20, 2020, 09:58:35 PM
So far 0.001% of the population have been infected.
In China, the epicentre, 0.005% of the population has been infected.
New cases in China are declining.
3,000 people have died.
Swine flu killed between 150,000 and 550,000. I do not remember this mass panic then.
Social media and 24 hour news media has caused mass panic.
Where will we be in another 2 weeks?
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 20, 2020, 10:21:30 PM
So far 0.001% of the population have been infected.
In China, the epicentre, 0.005% of the population has been infected.
New cases in China are declining.
3,000 people have died.
Swine flu killed between 150,000 and 550,000. I do not remember this mass panic then.
Social media and 24 hour news media has caused mass panic.
Where will we be in another 2 weeks?
I think that fool has gone hasn’t he?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 20, 2020, 10:33:46 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 20, 2020, 10:38:57 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 20, 2020, 10:48:09 PM
Post by: Damo70 on March 20, 2020, 11:13:08 PM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
Absolutely.
As an aside - betting companies are trying to get e-sports on TV to get an industry going around that. Awful behaviour.
Betting companies really ramped up the plugging of the relatively new concept of virtual horse and dog racing during the 2001 foot & mouth crisis. Prior to that it was mocked as 'cartoon racing' by the punters. As someone who was based in a big betting shop in the centre of Birmingham at the time and had some media studies qualifications I was the the one they chose to be wheeled out in front of the local press for newspaper interviews (no telly appearances sadly). My only instructions were to put a positive spin on things.
Whilst still doing my normal daily job I got a phone call from the big boss and was given about an hours notice, which was nice.
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 20, 2020, 11:42:55 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on March 20, 2020, 11:44:05 PM
What do I win?
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 20, 2020, 11:53:41 PM
Yes
What do I win?
Bless your naivety - this is me you're dealing with.
Who was it then?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 21, 2020, 10:12:54 AM
If they start playing while people are dying the Premier League can fuck off forever for me.
Absolutely.
As an aside - betting companies are trying to get e-sports on TV to get an industry going around that. Awful behaviour.
Betting companies really ramped up the plugging of the relatively new concept of virtual horse and dog racing during the 2001 foot & mouth crisis. Prior to that it was mocked as 'cartoon racing' by the punters. As someone who was based in a big betting shop in the centre of Birmingham at the time and had some media studies qualifications I was the the one they chose to be wheeled out in front of the local press for newspaper interviews (no telly appearances sadly). My only instructions were to put a positive spin on things.
Whilst still doing my normal daily job I got a phone call from the big boss and was given about an hours notice, which was nice.
Until last year I worked for the leading producer of virtual sports betting products.
Where they really kicked in was when in play betting got big, as something for punters to bet on between events.
Now there are no events, they must be coining it in.
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2020, 10:19:44 AM
Post by: aev on March 21, 2020, 10:59:44 AM
"We're particularly aware of the impact on clubs with potential to be promoted or win competitions, but we had to make the decision, to play our part in safeguarding Welsh communities".
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 21, 2020, 11:45:14 AM
Board confirms cancellation of 19/20 season for all WRU competitions:
"We're particularly aware of the impact on clubs with potential to be promoted or win competitions, but we had to make the decision, to play our part in safeguarding Welsh communities".
Good move.
Post by: Border villan on March 21, 2020, 12:02:40 PM
You could bet on High Quality United in the Bhutan Premier League. Playing the team from the capital.A very nice ground, just next to the river and the archery field.
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2020, 12:07:50 PM
Board confirms cancellation of 19/20 season for all WRU competitions:
"We're particularly aware of the impact on clubs with potential to be promoted or win competitions, but we had to make the decision, to play our part in safeguarding Welsh communities".
Good move.
See, you twats at the Premier League, it's not exactly rocket science.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 21, 2020, 01:08:19 PM
Aston Villa v VVV Venlo
Any idea who is playing for us? Need Prematch, match and post match threads at the ready.
Post by: olaftab on March 21, 2020, 02:23:00 PM
A few reports that the PL TV contract has clauses that would mean a repayment of £760m to Sky if the season remains unfinished.This is an unprecedented situation. Most of us have not lived through anything like. So Sky can take the hit or they can fuck off. Write them off when next set of negotiations start.
Post by: olaftab on March 21, 2020, 02:27:41 PM
They have a Yeti firm so don’t get up to any shit as they will kick you to top of the Everest.You could bet on High Quality United in the Bhutan Premier League. Playing the team from the capital.A very nice ground, just next to the river and the archery field.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 21, 2020, 02:30:01 PM
They have a Yeti firm so don’t get up to any shit as they will kick you to top of the Everest.You could bet on High Quality United in the Bhutan Premier League. Playing the team from the capital.A very nice ground, just next to the river and the archery field.
Pretty sure Bex took care of Yeti and his firm.
Post by: Brassneck on March 21, 2020, 02:52:47 PM
A few reports that the PL TV contract has clauses that would mean a repayment of £760m to Sky if the season remains unfinished.This is an unprecedented situation. Most of us have not lived through anything like. So Sky can take the hit or they can fuck off. Write them off when next set of negotiations start.
Sky will be covered by statute regardless of any clauses save for the ridiculous.
Personally, I'm enjoying watching both the PL and Sky taking a hit. It softens the blow (slightly) when looking at normal hard working businesses who are struggling to survive, some of whom will fail.
This could be the catalyst for the reclaiming of football as we used to know it. Perhaps not the way we would have wanted but nevertheless, it is where we are.
I'm loving seeing the PL & Sky squirm.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 21, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 21, 2020, 04:35:09 PM
I am missing football but at the same time, enjoying not seeing us lose all the fucking time.
Same here. I’ll also add that as each day goes by it becomes less relevant to the point that hearing grown men insisting that this season must be finished. It would be nice to think we could but it’s definitely not a must or anywhere near it.
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 21, 2020, 04:40:38 PM
They have a Yeti firm so don’t get up to any shit as they will kick you to top of the Everest.You could bet on High Quality United in the Bhutan Premier League. Playing the team from the capital.A very nice ground, just next to the river and the archery field.
Pretty sure Bex took care of Yeti and his firm.
Then Yeti murdered him after Palace v Villa (Tower Bridge tube in the remake).
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2020, 04:43:30 PM
They have a Yeti firm so don’t get up to any shit as they will kick you to top of the Everest.You could bet on High Quality United in the Bhutan Premier League. Playing the team from the capital.A very nice ground, just next to the river and the archery field.
Pretty sure Bex took care of Yeti and his firm.
Then Yeti murdered him after Palace v Villa (Tower Bridge tube in the remake).
Abominable refereeing likely sparked it.
Post by: garyellis on March 21, 2020, 07:38:46 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51990101
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 21, 2020, 07:40:28 PM
Post by: colin69 on March 21, 2020, 07:54:10 PM
Post by: Legion on March 21, 2020, 07:57:22 PM
Post by: Havencheese on March 21, 2020, 08:02:11 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 21, 2020, 08:16:25 PM
Dickhead.
Post by: algy on March 21, 2020, 08:20:54 PM
"because we can give people entertainment and show that we're fighting back."Yeah, cos that's going to make that virus think twice about infecting you if it can you're willing to play football regardless, isn't it?
Dickhead.
What an absolute prize cockwomble.
Post by: David_Nab on March 21, 2020, 09:10:59 PM
Untill there is a drastic decline in people testing positive and deaths reported no games are going ahead
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 21, 2020, 09:15:02 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 21, 2020, 09:19:50 PM
What world are these people living in
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51990101
They're so wrapped up in their little millionaires Premier league bubble, they don't realise we just don't give a fuck.
Post by: OzVilla on March 21, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Here's the thing if they play behind closed doors , do you think for on minute if Liverpool are at home playing to win the league that 1000's of fans wont turn up around the ground to celebrate ..look at the recent PSG champs league game for evidence of this.
And not only that, how many would have parties, open up social clubs, pubs like the old speakeasys showing games, lock ins. It’ll happen because people are dickheads and football trumps everything for these idiots. Do they really think everyone will just sit at home on their own watching the games doing the right thing.
First games back on they’ll be twitter videos of rooms full of people congregating to watch games, I guarantee it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 21, 2020, 09:35:07 PM
I was adding up how many people would be at a behind closed doors game, and with players, coaching staff, stewards, media and the rest you're talking up to 200. That's an unacceptable risk and would place a strain on the health service regardless of any injuries.
Since Muamba the PFA insisted that there are defibs onsite and paramedics at every single game, surely that resource is more needed for dealing with the virus then helping perpetuate a non-essential industry, too.
That's before you even think of the thousands of other people involved in football matches and training, even if it is just ten Premier League games a week behind closed doors.
Post by: The Edge on March 21, 2020, 11:09:37 PM
Here's the thing if they play behind closed doors , do you think for on minute if Liverpool are at home playing to win the league that 1000's of fans wont turn up around the ground to celebrate ..look at the recent PSG champs league game for evidence of this.I don't think there will be any football behind closed doors or otherwise until the ban on social gathering is lifted. And that will only happen once the country has got to grips with the Coronavirus. Anyone trying to put dates in place at the moment must be living in la la land.
Untill there is a drastic decline in people testing positive and deaths reported no games are going ahead
Post by: David_Nab on March 22, 2020, 01:17:26 AM
Here's the thing if they play behind closed doors , do you think for on minute if Liverpool are at home playing to win the league that 1000's of fans wont turn up around the ground to celebrate ..look at the recent PSG champs league game for evidence of this.I don't think there will be any football behind closed doors or otherwise until the ban on social gathering is lifted. And that will only happen once the country has got to grips with the Coronavirus. Anyone trying to put dates in place at the moment must be living in la la land.
Untill there is a drastic decline in people testing positive and deaths reported no games are going ahead
1.5 Mil people are being told to stay inside for 12 weeks ...gives a good indication of where things are going
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 22, 2020, 01:18:52 AM
Post by: purpletrousers on March 22, 2020, 01:31:08 AM
Post by: OzVilla on March 22, 2020, 05:46:44 AM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 22, 2020, 08:32:26 AM
Post by: CT on March 22, 2020, 09:20:10 AM
Over here the AFL season (Australian Rules Football) has now suspended their season for a minimum of 2 months. This weekend was the opening weekend of the season. The AFLW (women’s competition) cancelled at the semi final stages, no premiership winner this year.
I saw some very brief highlights as it happened to be on the news.
Someone scored a try and everyone jumped on him, hugging, hands on faces etc. I guess the social distancing thing doesn't apply to these athletes.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 22, 2020, 09:32:58 AM
"because we can give people entertainment and show that we're fighting back."
Dickhead.
Yes this idea of “fighting back” against a virus by increasing risk of infection is grade A fuckwittery. It’s not a bloody sentient enemy who wants to target our way of life. I mean fucking hell what an absolute dimwit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 22, 2020, 10:18:29 AM
Post by: Nastylee on March 22, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Post by: Steve67 on March 22, 2020, 10:33:09 AM
Post by: Dave P on March 22, 2020, 10:44:41 AM
Post by: Brassneck on March 22, 2020, 10:48:52 AM
The Premier League has to power to do what it wants with its ‘members’. If they voided this season after June 30th and declared Liverpool champions, I’m sure nobody would object save for a few teams chasing Europe which probably won’t be on or truncated anyway.
Be interested to read where you got that from.
I understood it to be the other way round - The PL has no power and its members vote on decisions.
Post by: Brassneck on March 22, 2020, 10:53:11 AM
Whereas initially, I thought that most teams would be happy to void the season, I think the thought of losing circa £30 million of TV money per club will motivate most to want to continue.
If there is a chance of getting next season played, this will probably mean it takes priority over finishing this season (more money involved).
If we don't play again until December/January then it will almost certainly mean that this season is completed then.
Post by: aev on March 22, 2020, 11:05:06 AM
I have reversed my opinion slightly.
Whereas initially, I thought that most teams would be happy to void the season, I think the thought of losing circa £30 million of TV money per club will motivate most to want to continue.
If there is a chance of getting next season played, this will probably mean it takes priority over finishing this season (more money involved).
If we don't play again until December/January then it will almost certainly mean that this season is completed then.
Which again is suggesting that their decisions are based upon money. Nearly all other businesses have taken decisions that are putting society ahead of profits and revenues, it is barmy that football seems to think it can be immune to this.
Post by: Pete3206 on March 22, 2020, 12:15:14 PM
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
Post by: mallo on March 22, 2020, 12:34:45 PM
That Southampton boss is delusional. The business he works in is gong to change big time along with everything else when we eventually see some light on this.They're completely obsessed with finishing the season - it really shows that the avarice of football outstrips most everything else.
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
Post by: frank black on March 22, 2020, 12:56:37 PM
That Southampton boss is delusional. The business he works in is gong to change big time along with everything else when we eventually see some light on this.They're completely obsessed with finishing the season - it really shows that the avarice of football outstrips most everything else.
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
If this thing goes on for so long we cant complete a full next season then it’s very likely they will choose to finish this one (and quite rightly so IMO).
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 22, 2020, 12:59:12 PM
That Southampton boss is delusional. The business he works in is gong to change big time along with everything else when we eventually see some light on this.They're completely obsessed with finishing the season - it really shows that the avarice of football outstrips most everything else.
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
If this thing goes on for so long we cant complete a full next season then it’s very likely they will choose to finish this one (and quite rightly so IMO).
Quite right. It's not like it's something inconsequential like A-levels.
Post by: Pete3206 on March 22, 2020, 01:38:34 PM
That Southampton boss is delusional. The business he works in is gong to change big time along with everything else when we eventually see some light on this.They're completely obsessed with finishing the season - it really shows that the avarice of football outstrips most everything else.
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
If this thing goes on for so long we cant complete a full next season then it’s very likely they will choose to finish this one (and quite rightly so IMO).
Quite right. It's not like it's something inconsequential like A-levels.
Or being alive.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 22, 2020, 04:23:18 PM
Suerly if they significantly compromise next season to finish this one, they will have less money overall?That Southampton boss is delusional. The business he works in is gong to change big time along with everything else when we eventually see some light on this.They're completely obsessed with finishing the season - it really shows that the avarice of football outstrips most everything else.
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
There's a lot of huge assumptions about money and greed being made and really it's just complete speculation at this stage.
If they start pushing to restart well before it's safe to do so, or whilst some clubs are still effected by unwell players then there will be a point to be made about greed. But all this gnashing of teeth because most clubs (and commentators on the game) think the right thing to do is finish the season it way over the top. Whilst I want the season to be voided for selfish reasons I am honest enough to accept that finishing it would be better for the integrity iof the game.
Post by: Brassneck on March 22, 2020, 04:48:22 PM
Suerly if they significantly compromise next season to finish this one, they will have less money overall?That Southampton boss is delusional. The business he works in is gong to change big time along with everything else when we eventually see some light on this.They're completely obsessed with finishing the season - it really shows that the avarice of football outstrips most everything else.
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
There's a lot of huge assumptions about money and greed being made and really it's just complete speculation at this stage.
If they start pushing to restart well before it's safe to do so, or whilst some clubs are still effected by unwell players then there will be a point to be made about greed. But all this gnashing of teeth because most clubs (and commentators on the game) think the right thing to do is finish the season it way over the top. Whilst I want the season to be voided for selfish reasons I am honest enough to accept that finishing it would be better for the integrity iof the game.
The Southampton chairman has just publicly stated that football could be played daily and televised while people are on lock down. Other chairmen have stated that the season should be finished without any real thought of how or when. This isn't speculation, it's public quotes.
Each club stands to lose around £30 million+ if the season isn't completed. The FA, the PFA and all other beneficiaries of the TV money all stand to lose out. Nobody has suggested that voiding the season is an option. The absence of even considering it is telling.
Post by: olaftab on March 22, 2020, 05:18:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51995470
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 22, 2020, 05:21:56 PM
Suerly if they significantly compromise next season to finish this one, they will have less money overall?That Southampton boss is delusional. The business he works in is gong to change big time along with everything else when we eventually see some light on this.They're completely obsessed with finishing the season - it really shows that the avarice of football outstrips most everything else.
He needs to concentrate on looking after himself and his family and should shut the fuck up about football resuming.
There's a lot of huge assumptions about money and greed being made and really it's just complete speculation at this stage.
If they start pushing to restart well before it's safe to do so, or whilst some clubs are still effected by unwell players then there will be a point to be made about greed. But all this gnashing of teeth because most clubs (and commentators on the game) think the right thing to do is finish the season it way over the top. Whilst I want the season to be voided for selfish reasons I am honest enough to accept that finishing it would be better for the integrity iof the game.
I think the integrity of the game is an incredibly fluid thing at the moment. The most important thing, by an absolute mile, is that they don’t try to start playing before this crisis is over. I couldn’t really care a less about whether that’s finishing this season or starting the next at the moment.
Post by: Nastylee on March 22, 2020, 06:58:49 PM
Post by: Brassneck on March 22, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
This strap line of integrity of the game really means we need to ensure we don't miss out on sponsorship and other cash. If there was any real integrity we wouldn't still be debating this.
Integrity is a cop out.
First and foremost is peoples lives and a safe environment for us all to live in. Until we are on top of that, nothing else matters - At least not in sport.
Clubs and the FA would ideally like this season finished before the new one starts so as to minimize losses. That isn't going to happen and they're flogging a dead horse.
To ensure survival of many clubs, the ability to get in as much money will take precedent ahead of any desire to maintain integrity. It has to. If this means that 100% of next season's TV money is available as opposed to 25% of this season's then so be it.
Only if next season cannot be completed will they finish off this season.
Post by: Dominic22 on March 22, 2020, 07:51:43 PM
The first thing most clubs up and down the pyramid do on July 1st is not to renew any contracts so there are clubs going to be left with very few professional players. Most league 1 and 2 clubs don't have players on 3-year deals they are one year deals at best. It will just be a free for all as soon as it goes past June and there is no way football will start close to that point.
Then we have the loan players, great if the club wants to keep them but what about those in all clubs that have been a disaster, all the clubs will want them off the wage bill and will never agree to another extension.
Post by: Legion on March 22, 2020, 07:53:06 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 22, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
This strap line of integrity of the game really means we need to ensure we don't miss out on sponsorship and other cash. If there was any real integrity we wouldn't still be debating this.I'm sorry but this is bollocks. Most people say the season should be finished at some point to be fair to all clubs. They're (generally) not saying exactly when or how this happens or suggesting anybody is put at risk. I just don't get how you (and others) extrapolate that as being about greed. It could end up losing money if next season is compromised as some are suggesting.
I appreciate some people feel the need to create a dragon so they can slay it, but this level of bitterness seems daft to me. The reality is most of us hiding behind the greed and safety issue just want the season voided for our own selfish reasons, but get to do a bit of virtue signalling against the big nasty machine whilst we're at it.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 22, 2020, 08:08:57 PM
Post by: Nastylee on March 22, 2020, 08:16:49 PM
This strap line of integrity of the game really means we need to ensure we don't miss out on sponsorship and other cash. If there was any real integrity we wouldn't still be debating this.I'm sorry but this is bollocks. Most people say the season should be finished at some point to be fair to all clubs. They're (generally) not saying exactly when or how this happens or suggesting anybody is put at risk. I just don't get how you (and others) extrapolate that as being about greed. It could end up losing money if next season is compromised as some are suggesting.
I appreciate some people feel the need to create a dragon so they can slay it, but this level of bitterness seems daft to me. The reality is most of us hiding behind the greed and safety issue just want the season voided for our own selfish reasons, but get to do a bit of virtue signalling against the big nasty machine whilst we're at it.
I'm sorry but this is more bollocky than my original post.
I keep hearing 'must protect the integrity of the league'. The PL has stripped it bare over the last 20 years at the expense of the people.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 22, 2020, 08:30:50 PM
Obviously nothing is going to be played even a week or two after the peak finally starts to decrease as that would be idiotic just like the May utterances from elsewhere.
Seems if forecasts are correct they will be two month window to get this season done albeit behind closed doors. A second wave of Covid 19 in winter would knock the 20-21 season out so they don't want to cancel on season and then the other quickly gets finished with just a couple of games played.
Eventually though in some form sport will get going again in next six months so I can see why they're keeping options open even if it's not tasteful.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 22, 2020, 08:47:46 PM
Post by: Richard E on March 22, 2020, 08:49:00 PM
BTW going back was there much talk of scrapping the season after Hillsborough occurred? Would've thought bar playing FA cup final as a tribute there wasn't much point continuing after that bleak day but on the season went. No idea what the mood was about that.
There was talk of scrapping the FA Cup but not the league.
Post by: colin69 on March 22, 2020, 09:00:21 PM
I cannot see football starting again for a very long time and who actually really cares at the moment?
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 22, 2020, 09:09:25 PM
What an outstanding talent John Barnes was.
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 22, 2020, 09:26:25 PM
Leaving aside the fact that even behind closed doors would involve at least a few hundred people getting together to put on a game, police it and broadcast it, can anyone honestly believe that when Liverpool eventually win their first title in 30 years several hundred thousand Scousers are going to mark the occasion by sharing Thumbs Up emojis from their social isolation?
Post by: Legion on March 22, 2020, 09:27:50 PM
Post by: aev on March 22, 2020, 09:34:00 PM
Post by: ROBBO on March 22, 2020, 09:58:29 PM
The federal government closed all state borders yesterday meaning teams can't travel so no more footy for what a believe will be a long time. Some of the smaller clubs may not survive and I would think this would be the situation of clubs in the UK.
Post by: David_Nab on March 22, 2020, 10:22:17 PM
The "play to a finish but behind closed doors" bandwagon keeps moving, at least amongst the fans of Liverpool (and based on the abuse I received on another forum, Leeds).
Leaving aside the fact that even behind closed doors would involve at least a few hundred people getting together to put on a game, police it and broadcast it, can anyone honestly believe that when Liverpool eventually win their first title in 30 years several hundred thousand Scousers are going to mark the occasion by sharing Thumbs Up emojis from their social isolation?
I guarantee if we played 2 matches behind closed doors , Liverpool win them and win league Liverpool fans would suddenly not have issue with integrity of league if it was voided then....
Post by: tomd2103 on March 22, 2020, 10:32:56 PM
One other issue with finishing the season (whenever that may happen) is how do you ensure that the teams have all had a similar time to train and get fit. Presumably players and staff will be getting ill and recovering at different times - what happens about this?
I had a chat today with someone who is on the coaching staff at an EFL club and he said that they've been told that finishing the season is the priority, no matter the impact it has on next season.
I still think the best thing to do would be to end the uncertainty and finish the season now, with next season planned to start as usual. It would give time to sort out the wrangling over promotions, European spots etc. and would hopefully stop the risk of it being rushed back too soon.
Conspiracy time, but I do wonder just how much the situation with Liverpool and the ensuing frothing at the mouth that would occur is driving all of this. If Manchester City were running away with the title, I just wonder if the question would be being floated as much.
Post by: KRS on March 22, 2020, 11:42:34 PM
Post by: Brassneck on March 23, 2020, 12:51:31 AM
Just throwing it out there, but if this season “has to be finished” then it will obviously impact upon next season...a reasonable solution to that could be playing 1 game against each team with an equal split between home/away fixtures and graded opponents.
I'd rather not bother. Besides, how could you play 19 games equally home & away?
I'd prefer Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday.
Post by: andyh on March 23, 2020, 08:42:34 AM
To be fair, if they play out the remaining games this season, Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday is probably what we'll be doing next season !!!Just throwing it out there, but if this season “has to be finished” then it will obviously impact upon next season...a reasonable solution to that could be playing 1 game against each team with an equal split between home/away fixtures and graded opponents.
I'd rather not bother. Besides, how could you play 19 games equally home & away?
I'd prefer Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday.
Post by: Brassneck on March 23, 2020, 08:55:27 AM
To be fair, if they play out the remaining games this season, Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday is probably what we'll be doing next season !!!Just throwing it out there, but if this season “has to be finished” then it will obviously impact upon next season...a reasonable solution to that could be playing 1 game against each team with an equal split between home/away fixtures and graded opponents.
I'd rather not bother. Besides, how could you play 19 games equally home & away?
I'd prefer Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday.
Stands a chance.
They'd have to determine when transfer windows open and close and when (and for how long) the close season ran for.
I still think it impossible to accommodate both. It will be June at the very earliest before teams are given the OK to gather again. After that length of time away (normally a traditional close season), it takes 6 weeks to get up to fitness again.
Post by: ROBBO on March 23, 2020, 09:02:10 AM
Post by: Brassneck on March 23, 2020, 09:07:22 AM
June is very optimistic I would be pleasantly surprised it we see football played again before the new year.
Yeah - I said "at the very earliest".
It then doesn't become a season does it?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 23, 2020, 10:09:19 AM
Post by: amfy on March 23, 2020, 10:16:31 AM
Liverpool will be recorded in history as having won the 19/20/21 season.
Post by: darren woolley on March 23, 2020, 10:40:59 AM
Given that the Tokyo Olympics (24th July - 9th August) are now under pressure to be cancelled won't it be the same for any sporting events behind closed doors or not? I also don't get this behind closed doors thing anyway. 22 people take part in a game of football with subs and assortment of backroom staff and officials a game would need near enough 100 people in attendance. And that's assuming all these people players and officials are not self isolating at the time of the game. Or, may be concerned about their health should they partake. A clear directive needs to be sent to football world wide. No resumption of training or games until September at the earliest. Realistically, that would mean the first games take place sometime in October. That's all on the assumption the world is rid of the virus.
With the Olympics possibly being cancelled I can't see football resuming by that date.
Post by: aev on March 23, 2020, 10:47:05 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 23, 2020, 11:04:16 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 23, 2020, 11:23:16 AM
Post by: frank black on March 23, 2020, 11:23:26 AM
The way things are looking I can see us finishing this season by picking up at about the same date in 2021 and playing out the same fixtures as if the year in between never happened.
Liverpool will be recorded in history as having won the 19/20/21 season.
This is the likely outcome I suspect
Post by: OCD on March 23, 2020, 11:35:51 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on March 23, 2020, 11:43:41 AM
God forbid this should happen but it's not impossible that we eventually get this outbreak under control, start things up again and then get a second outbreak.
I would imagine that it will not be classed as under control until there is a vaccine available and/or a standard treatment against the most dangerous symptoms.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 23, 2020, 11:45:41 AM
God forbid this should happen but it's not impossible that we eventually get this outbreak under control, start things up again and then get a second outbreak.
I would imagine that it will not be classed as under control until there is a vaccine available and/or a standard treatment against the most dangerous symptoms.
18 months away minimum then?
Post by: sid1964 on March 23, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 23, 2020, 12:46:20 PM
Post by: Risso on March 23, 2020, 12:57:57 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Qp0257W/47080-E06-4-A31-4-F43-A39-C-A2212-A9-E3-D6-F.png) (https://ibb.co/Qp0257W)
Post by: amfy on March 23, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 23, 2020, 01:27:34 PM
I'm not sure most reasonable people care now. And soon, the ones that do care might change their minds.Of course lots of reasonable people care. You don't just stop thinking and caring about a club you're obsessed with because of other terrible things going on in the world.
At some point we will come out the other end of this and of course many of us will have suffered bad times personally, emotionally and economically. But one consistant most of us have is a love of football and in particular Villa - it's the very reason we are posting on this forum right now. And I make absolutely no apology for hoping that when this is all over, the club I love will still be able to thrive and in the PL, ideally with the players I love watching still playing for them.
It doesn't mean I care any less about what is going on in the real world. I'm just not suspending my hopes and ambitions for my club in the meantime.
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 23, 2020, 01:31:08 PM
http://thebirminghampress.com/2020/03/its-football-but-not-as-we-know-it/
Post by: Somniloquism on March 23, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
God forbid this should happen but it's not impossible that we eventually get this outbreak under control, start things up again and then get a second outbreak.
I suspect this phase will be brought under control, and things will be opened up again to an extent in a few months. However controlled lockdowns, testing kits and almost a South Korea type response will still be in place. So when outbreak is detected, those areas will be under lockdown and people who have been in contact with infected will be traced quickly.
Personally, this disease is with us now and we will have Flu and Covid seasons from now on. Any vaccine will be based on the current versions so lets hope it doesn't mutate much between now and then.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 23, 2020, 02:14:41 PM
I saw that & really wanted to ask where he was sitting & which pubs he’d gone to!
Selfishly, those were my first thoughts, too!
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 23, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
I saw that & really wanted to ask where he was sitting & which pubs he’d gone to!
Selfishly, those were my first thoughts, too!
If you're on Facebook, go on his profile. The night before the final, he seems to have been involved in the launch of a new venue, although it's not clear if he was there himself. Dave played. Have a look at his video, the place was heaving.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 23, 2020, 04:10:45 PM
Good effort Joe.
Post by: Mister E on March 24, 2020, 08:47:49 AM
FormerFixed that for you - never really played for us; properly, like.VillaWest Ham and Chelsea player Joe Cole donated £25,000 to NHS staff who are taking care of coronavirus patients .
Good effort Joe.
Nice donation though.
Post by: Ads on March 24, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Post by: mr underhill on March 24, 2020, 12:32:13 PM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 24, 2020, 01:12:12 PM
Looks like Reina could have had it.
Would be the first thing he's caught all season.....
Post by: Towser on March 24, 2020, 01:23:35 PM
Post by: Towser on March 24, 2020, 01:26:25 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 24, 2020, 01:30:54 PM
Alex Butler as well https://twitter.com/han_baggie/status/1242405439700074496
Recognise his face from shots of him coming in with the team on matchdays. Can also remember him being in the away end at the sty and celebrating Jack's goal.
What's his role in the club again. Worrying that he hasn't just got a mild form of this.
Post by: Towser on March 24, 2020, 02:14:11 PM
He is the Club Masseur, direct contact with the players I thinkAlex Butler as well https://twitter.com/han_baggie/status/1242405439700074496
Recognise his face from shots of him coming in with the team on matchdays. Can also remember him being in the away end at the sty and celebrating Jack's goal.
What's his role in the club again. Worrying that he hasn't just got a mild form of this.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 24, 2020, 02:15:22 PM
Looks like Reina could have had it.
On that Reina very humble and graciously said
Last week it was my turn to go through the bug," he told Spanish radio station Cope. "It has been a different week, of taking precautions not to infect the people who live with me.
"Here tests are not conducted unless you are (in a) very bad (state). Speaking to the doctors, the symptoms I had were of it, without official confirmation of it but everything pointed to it.
"We are very privileged people. We have a big house, with a garden. I think of the people who live in a 70-metres-squared apartment with two children and for me they are people who are showing a lot of strength."
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 24, 2020, 08:28:15 PM
Quote
League Statement 24th March - Season 2019/20
The Alliance Leagues held the latest of several conference calls last night (Monday) after our own board, and those of the Isthmian and Northern Premier Leagues, met over the weekend to determine how we wish to proceed. We have also participated in calls with the Step 5/6 clubs.
End of season
The Step 3 & 4 Leagues share clubs’ frustration that it is taking so long to determine whether the 2019/20 season is to end now, and if so on what basis. To maintain the integrity of our competitions, we ideally need to apply one solution across all of the National League System. However, this may not be possible.
The Southern, Isthmian and Northern Premier Leagues are unanimous in wanting to terminate the 2019-20 season immediately.
Whether that is done on the basis of determining final placings via average points per game, or the season is declared null & void cannot be decided until the National League decides how it wishes to proceed.
Right now, the National League’s position is that they wish to be able to resume the 2019-20 season at some point. The feeder Leagues do not support this because our clubs do not have the financial resources to continue to honour player contracts indefinitely.
The Southern, Isthmian and Northern Premier Leagues have therefore implemented the process to terminate the season. This has to be ratified by FA council, so there may be a short delay as the relevant documentation is submitted, distributed and approved. Therefore, the League's desire is not the confirmed outcome.
Whilst this process is on-going, and once the National League has finalised how it wishes to proceed, competition issues can then be decided, together with the implications for promotion and relegation.
Post by: Brassneck on March 24, 2020, 08:36:14 PM
It seems OK do do the only sensible thing as far as the non-money making leagues are concerned but as far as the money leagues go, "integrity" is of the utmost importance.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 24, 2020, 08:49:38 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on March 24, 2020, 08:57:02 PM
It's a dangerous precedent if any league finishes and has promotion and relegation based on average points. That would be us down.
Think the legal battles would go on longer than the football season.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 24, 2020, 09:00:39 PM
Post by: exigo on March 24, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
It's a dangerous precedent if any league finishes and has promotion and relegation based on average points. That would be us down.
Think the legal battles would go on longer than the football season.
We've got six home games left and only four away. With a considerably better home record, we would drag any decision to average the season through the courts. And rightly so.
Post by: Legion on March 24, 2020, 10:01:51 PM
Post by: Legion on March 24, 2020, 10:02:07 PM
Post by: OzVilla on March 24, 2020, 11:30:59 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 25, 2020, 12:18:54 AM
All this bollocks about law suits from Leeds and Albion etc. If the PL clubs vote and the vote is carried that's the end of it. The law suits the PL will want o avoid are those from existing PL clubs as those are the ones that would have a case. I'd say there is zero chance of an evening out of points or taking the current positions as final. If they cant finish the season it'll either be a straight void or give 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' the title and have no relegation.
Oz villain what's it like in Oz ?
I hear that non essential has been shut down and that the government has taken effective measures and acted decisive
Post by: OzVilla on March 25, 2020, 12:32:28 AM
Told we have one of the highest testing regimes in the world and the lowest death rate currently in the world. Extremely worried about our jobs obviously as the economy stalls but I think we're as on top of this as you can be from a public health point of view although as you guys go in to the warmer months we enter our cooler 'flu season' months.
We are here but also have close family in both the UK and US so are keeping a close eye across them all. I think thee's a lot of depression going to come from this and as well as physical health I'm concerned for peoples mental health too.
This country has now had the double hit of the bushfires and to now have this is just horrendous. Those were both once in a lifetime economic and social shocks that have now happened 3 months apart
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 25, 2020, 01:23:15 AM
Is there any suggestion that the warmer climate down there has helped as this is one of the straws we have been clutching at in the northern hemisphere.
Post by: OzVilla on March 25, 2020, 01:36:07 AM
Make of that what you will.
Post by: Lsvilla on March 25, 2020, 01:45:43 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on March 25, 2020, 01:57:15 AM
We’re currently in Barbados where temp fluctuates between 24-30. There are 18 cases on the island initially all brought in from U.K. / US although after none yesterday 1 today (plus 16 negative tests) which seems to be a local man - no detail yet as to whether his business would have taken him into contact with the tourists. From what has been written above our hope that the heat would provide a solution may be misplaced. Some actions by the government to limit gatherings etc and with most tourists having left a lot of shops and restaurants taking the decision to close anyway. Generally most being sensible and social distancing even in the local rum shacks that stay open. Our flight home for Saturday has been cancelled so in the hands of virgin as to when we get back. A little in two minds about it as consider myself safer here if we don’t get sick but if it balloons then perhaps not the best place to be. Anyone else out here be interested to hear from.Edit. Local media now reporting the latest case was found through contact tracing therefore would have been in direct contact with an earlier case. Some comfort that if you don’t get a tap on the shoulder from the authorities you’re probably safe thus far.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 25, 2020, 01:57:32 AM
Not sure CL. However, we have cases increasing in Queensland and we wouldn't have had a day below 25c since last October. Also cases exploding in Indonesia where its 27c-30c and humid pretty much all year around.Thanks, I will have to stick with drinking cattle piss then.
Make of that what you will.
Post by: Hillbilly on March 25, 2020, 04:41:09 AM
Schools still open.Schools in Victoria closed yesterday (Tuesday). We've brought forward the Easter break which was due to start next week anyway.
Post by: jwarry on March 25, 2020, 04:52:56 AM
Post by: JD on March 25, 2020, 06:13:59 AM
I have been working from home anyway, so no real issue.
Are still allowed out to walk, run, bike etc.
Post by: Brassneck on March 25, 2020, 07:10:52 AM
All this bollocks about law suits from Leeds and Albion etc. If the PL clubs vote and the vote is carried that's the end of it. The law suits the PL will want o avoid are those from existing PL clubs as those are the ones that would have a case. I'd say there is zero chance of an evening out of points or taking the current positions as final. If they cant finish the season it'll either be a straight void or give 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' the title and have no relegation.
I have a couple of nagging worries.
Firstly, if next season can't be started on time (meaning there won't be time to complete it), then the PL will vote to complete this season next January/February/March.
Secondly, currently, a two thirds majority is needed for a vote to be passed. I think the bottom 6 will all vote the same way but how many more would want to write off £750 million in TV fees plus more in gate receipts etc? I don't think we'd get the majority that is required. In that scenario, could the clubs agree on a majority vote (not two thirds majority but just a majority)?
In an ideal situation, we need next season to be able to start by September(ish) at the latest. I think the only solution in that case would be to void the existing season. Whether it will be possible to allow sport to commence so early is probably a tad optimistic. This next 3 weeks will give us an indication.
Post by: brian green on March 25, 2020, 08:02:19 AM
Wait for it.
They perform for an audience of one person.
The theatre's full number of tickets is sold as a lottery. One lucky winner becomes the audience. It is in essence playing behind closed doors but enables the supporters of the ballet company to keep it going financially.
For ballet substitute football. This is all so serious that it is no longer the relatively minor matter of the completion of the season, it is the future survival of the clubs. If we want football clubs we have to dig deep to keep them going.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 25, 2020, 09:17:37 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on March 25, 2020, 09:47:13 AM
There is no time to finish this season by say December, have a break, restart the next season and finish by May for the 2021 Euros. The commercial factors will be huge, tv rights, sponsorship deals etc and they will want their money's worth. I suspect we will hit the 'restart' button in November/December for the 2020/21 season and teams will play Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday. Lord knows how cup games and CL games will fit in, but again their sponsors will want things to continue.
The above doesn't even consider the players out of contract and the transfer window.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 25, 2020, 09:51:24 AM
"Hi everyone, just wanted to share my thoughts given I'm currently living in Italy, the epicentre of the virus," he began.
"Realistically a supermarket is now your main risk at spreading this virus and even catching it. Speaking with family and friends at home it sounds like going to get food is just crazy.
"Remember, lockdown means lockdown! In Italy going to the supermarket is surprisingly calm... no fights over food, no stripped shelves and most certainly no abusing staff members for limiting food or any reason at all! And in almost every case it's usually just one person shopping for a household!
"Please read the following and share this if you haven't already, it really is time to do your bit to help tackle this awful global crisis we are in!
"Queuing to go into supermarket is standard, but not because it's for stockpiling or greed," he added.
"Supermarkets have limited the number of people entering at any time so it's never over-crowded! So wait and be patient to go in if your supermarket is doing this.
"If you have to get in the lift only get in with 1 more person, 2 people per lift at one time. And stand on opposite sides of the lift and face the wall - don't breathe outwards towards that stranger.
"Always use gloves from moment you get out of your car! You don't want to touch trolleys that other hands have been on. Keep the gloves on until you are getting back in the car.
"Use a face mask or scarf to keep you nose and mouth covered.
"Always keep your distance at the till. Keep the trolley behind you when you unpack at the till as it stops people from being able to to get too close.
Ashley Young was a prolific snood wearer wasn't he ?
Before they were banned for matches
One of my favourite ever players for Villa. Fair play to him for both updates and going over to Italy to play the game
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 25, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
Well as of today all shopping centres, cafes, gyms, hospitality etc are closed and strict restrictions on social gatherings - 5 at a wedding, outdoor fitness bootcamps no more than 10 persons. 'Encouraged' to work from home but no complete lock downs and we are still in our office although Mrs Ozvilla is working from home. All sports postponed and no movement around the country as each state closes it's borders to all but essential travel. Schools still open.
Told we have one of the highest testing regimes in the world and the lowest death rate currently in the world. Extremely worried about our jobs obviously as the economy stalls but I think we're as on top of this as you can be from a public health point of view although as you guys go in to the warmer months we enter our cooler 'flu season' months.
We are here but also have close family in both the UK and US so are keeping a close eye across them all. I think thee's a lot of depression going to come from this and as well as physical health I'm concerned for peoples mental health too.
This country has now had the double hit of the bushfires and to now have this is just horrendous. Those were both once in a lifetime economic and social shocks that have now happened 3 months apart
Thanks Oz for reply.
I can certainly hear that . Please take care and all best at this time
Post by: wozwebs on March 25, 2020, 09:57:27 AM
Post by: passport1 on March 25, 2020, 10:02:57 AM
Former Aston Villa player Ashley Young on Twitter has shared some thoughts.
"Hi everyone, just wanted to share my thoughts given I'm currently living in Italy, the epicentre of the virus," he began.
"Realistically a supermarket is now your main risk at spreading this virus and even catching it. Speaking with family and friends at home it sounds like going to get food is just crazy.
"Remember, lockdown means lockdown! In Italy going to the supermarket is surprisingly calm... no fights over food, no stripped shelves and most certainly no abusing staff members for limiting food or any reason at all! And in almost every case it's usually just one person shopping for a household!
"Please read the following and share this if you haven't already, it really is time to do your bit to help tackle this awful global crisis we are in!
"Queuing to go into supermarket is standard, but not because it's for stockpiling or greed," he added.
"Supermarkets have limited the number of people entering at any time so it's never over-crowded! So wait and be patient to go in if your supermarket is doing this.
"If you have to get in the lift only get in with 1 more person, 2 people per lift at one time. And stand on opposite sides of the lift and face the wall - don't breathe outwards towards that stranger.
"Always use gloves from moment you get out of your car! You don't want to touch trolleys that other hands have been on. Keep the gloves on until you are getting back in the car.
"Use a face mask or scarf to keep you nose and mouth covered.
"Always keep your distance at the till. Keep the trolley behind you when you unpack at the till as it stops people from being able to to get too close.
Ashley Young was a prolific snood wearer wasn't he ?
Before they were banned for matches
One of my favourite ever players for Villa. Fair play to him for both updates and going over to Italy to play the game
He didn't mention whether you should throw yourself to the ground as if shot by a sniper if someone brushed against you.
Post by: aev on March 25, 2020, 01:51:59 PM
Post by: Dominic22 on March 25, 2020, 02:47:09 PM
There was no way the games could get completed for June and nearly all players will be out of contract up and down the leagues from June 1st. No club at that level or league one and two are going to want to keep paying contracts through the summer with no certainty as they are bleeding money now. It will be interesting how this plays with the EFL and Prem but I just can't see how this does not happen to all the leagues.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 25, 2020, 02:52:40 PM
Former Aston Villa player Ashley Young on Twitter has shared some thoughts.
"Hi everyone, just wanted to share my thoughts given I'm currently living in Italy, the epicentre of the virus," he began.
"Realistically a supermarket is now your main risk at spreading this virus and even catching it. Speaking with family and friends at home it sounds like going to get food is just crazy.
"Remember, lockdown means lockdown! In Italy going to the supermarket is surprisingly calm... no fights over food, no stripped shelves and most certainly no abusing staff members for limiting food or any reason at all! And in almost every case it's usually just one person shopping for a household!
"Please read the following and share this if you haven't already, it really is time to do your bit to help tackle this awful global crisis we are in!
"Queuing to go into supermarket is standard, but not because it's for stockpiling or greed," he added.
"Supermarkets have limited the number of people entering at any time so it's never over-crowded! So wait and be patient to go in if your supermarket is doing this.
"If you have to get in the lift only get in with 1 more person, 2 people per lift at one time. And stand on opposite sides of the lift and face the wall - don't breathe outwards towards that stranger.
"Always use gloves from moment you get out of your car! You don't want to touch trolleys that other hands have been on. Keep the gloves on until you are getting back in the car.
"Use a face mask or scarf to keep you nose and mouth covered.
"Always keep your distance at the till. Keep the trolley behind you when you unpack at the till as it stops people from being able to to get too close.
Ashley Young was a prolific snood wearer wasn't he ?
Before they were banned for matches
One of my favourite ever players for Villa. Fair play to him for both updates and going over to Italy to play the game
He didn't mention whether you should throw yourself to the ground as if shot by a sniper if someone brushed against you.
I was hoping he'd show us how to effectively balloon a free kick at least 20 feet over the bar every time you take one yet still be the person who takes all our free kicks.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 25, 2020, 03:47:27 PM
The money situation wil get sorted out although I did raise the prospect of possible fragmentation breakaway happening. The Pay TV business needs the PL and the PL neds them.
Post by: algy on March 25, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
National League wants to Void the season.... Not sure they know how yet but that looks the intentionI think, if we have another 3 week lockdown period after this one, it'll be pretty much impossible to finish the leagues by June. Even with the most optimistic scheduling & playing all games behind closed doors (IMO a barely viable strategy to begin with). Lower down the leagues, I'm not sure they will have an option except to void the season when it becomes certain that the season can't be finished within a reasonable timescale. "reasonable timescale" is probably sooner (June?) for non-league sides than it is for L1/L2 clubs (July? August, maybe?) - and if they're against it, they'll be pretty much obliged to void the Championship too.
There was no way the games could get completed for June and nearly all players will be out of contract up and down the leagues from June 1st. No club at that level or league one and two are going to want to keep paying contracts through the summer with no certainty as they are bleeding money now. It will be interesting how this plays with the EFL and Prem but I just can't see how this does not happen to all the leagues.
I can see one of two things happening at that point ...
1) Championship clubs support the rest of the EFL: Premier League will be the only league not to void, and it'll be difficult to maintain the stance of playing the season out when possible.
2) Championship clubs form a breakaway "Premier League 2" and try to complete the season. The PL sides might support that, since it justifies their own stance [for some clubs]. In this case, the Championship clubs might try to weather the storm and resume playing once it dies down. The risk for them will be that, if football can't resume in the next year or so, they may well face financial ruin having kept playing staff on without any income. Though arguably if they're on long contracts, they'll be in that situation anyway.
Hopefully, though, people will realise that football isn't that important and call it a day.
Post by: Brassneck on March 25, 2020, 03:59:18 PM
Vague talk that if the season isn’t completed the clubs would be sued for breach of contract. No idea if this is the case or not but would explain the desperation to get it done in the face of everything else happening around us (empty stadiums etc).
Highly unlikely to be the case because parties are protected by statute if a contract is frustrated (cannot be completed due to outside influences that neither party can control)
Any money owed to Sky, BT etc will have to be returned or credited to the following season.
Post by: aev on March 25, 2020, 04:25:19 PM
Post by: Brassneck on March 25, 2020, 05:00:10 PM
But I guess the argument would be that it can be completed - the June 30 date doesn’t seem to be a line in the sand?
This is the can of worms.
For me, a season should mean exactly that and as is written in league rules - Within 1 year of the opening game.
Teams who are burnt out (like Wolves) will have the benefit of resting and starting again. Teams who are trained to hit the ground running but traditionally end poorly (Leeds) will also have the benefit of a rest and another pre-season. DS has recently stated that his teams finish well - That (so called) advantage has been taken away from us.
Players who are out of contract and loanees could leave - This probably wouldn't affect us but it may others.
For me anyway, you can't just halt a season and then finish it 6+ months later.
I don't see the TV companies having an argument that the season could be completed some time in the future - The definition of season has to be as stated in the league rules. The decision to extend will lie with the league (with some influence from UEFA I expect).
Post by: Rotterdam on March 25, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
The TV money is going to be a huge influence over things and I think they would want a fresh start they could promote.
Post by: Mister E on March 25, 2020, 06:32:40 PM
National League wants to Void the season.... Not sure they know how yet but that looks the intentionIt's a bastard for my local team , Harrogate Town: their best-ever season and 2nd in the National LEague, and in the Cup qtr finals.
There was no way the games could get completed for June and nearly all players will be out of contract up and down the leagues from June 1st. No club at that level or league one and two are going to want to keep paying contracts through the summer with no certainty as they are bleeding money now. It will be interesting how this plays with the EFL and Prem but I just can't see how this does not happen to all the leagues.
I know it's insignificant in the broader scheme of things, but ....
Post by: Risso on March 25, 2020, 07:53:42 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on March 25, 2020, 07:56:36 PM
Looking forward to winning some games over the next 6 years in the championship.
Post by: lennythekad on March 25, 2020, 07:57:49 PM
No messing around in South Africa!
(https://i.ibb.co/CMvbS9X/F8324636-50-CD-4406-AE6-E-8-C50443-BBE0-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CMvbS9X)
(https://i.ibb.co/C8qw5G6/EBC7-C634-281-B-4156-B1-D6-1-FA1-A8-C68-CB8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C8qw5G6)
Post by: Legion on March 25, 2020, 07:58:30 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 25, 2020, 08:11:44 PM
Post by: brian green on March 25, 2020, 08:20:32 PM
Post by: garyellis on March 25, 2020, 08:26:46 PM
Attention seeking?This 100%
Post by: Villan82 on March 25, 2020, 08:55:27 PM
Why are our own supporters always the quickest to condemn us?
My thoughts entirely. Out of the 5 clubs fighting relegation we have the best case for fighting against it on these terms- game in hand, 6 home games. No joking, it would be ludicrous for us to accept relegation/playing games behind closed doors. It would be grossly unfair to us.
Post by: Legion on March 25, 2020, 08:59:49 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 25, 2020, 09:42:04 PM
Why are our own supporters always the quickest to condemn us?
My thoughts entirely. Out of the 5 clubs fighting relegation we have the best case for fighting against it on these terms- game in hand, 6 home games. No joking, it would be ludicrous for us to accept relegation/playing games behind closed doors. It would be grossly unfair to us.
Totally agree with this. We have been much better at home, especially under the lights.
Also, playing behind closed doors would be a symbol that Coronavirus is still out there and that money is much more important than the fans, lives etc.
If we can just cut out the silly errors, we might be ok.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 25, 2020, 09:42:42 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 25, 2020, 09:43:13 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 25, 2020, 09:48:50 PM
5 1 Liverpool
2 1 Manure LC Semi
The Watford win in Jan was not too shabby either.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on March 25, 2020, 09:51:58 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 26, 2020, 12:09:27 AM
Post by: brentastonb6 on March 26, 2020, 12:37:44 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 26, 2020, 12:50:00 AM
If we could play every home game at night I swear we'd win the league.
When I get the chance to return, it's always great to be back at Villa Park. But night games are just magical, no matter the opposition. Arsenal (Sammy Morgan), Liverpool 5-1Barca with Cruyff, Anderlect but more recently, how the Holte rose up as one when we needed the points, this one was magical.
Post by: CyprusVillain on March 26, 2020, 05:15:49 AM
I'm a teacher, I am carrying on teaching, looking after the children of essential workers in inner Birmingham.
I've been waiting for this news....and waiting....and waiting....so I thought I'd imagine how it would be reported if it happened.
Quote
Hats Off To Villa Stars (Daily Mail 26/03/20)
'Hats off to Villa Captain Jack Grealish for being the first Premier League player to pledge a month's salary to local children's charity, Accorns. The £35,000 a week Villa talisman was also quick to enlist the support of his Villa Team mates who have also made similar pledges in this time of need. Grealish was quoted in the local media, whilst self isolating at home, 'Aston Villa has a very strong link with its fans and the local community, for us, making a donation of this kind is just a small gesture, giving back to those people who are giving so much in this time of need.'
As of the 26th of March, and three weeks into the crisis, this claret and blue initiative stands along side similar donations by Premier League footballers. Kevin De Bruyne of Manchester City, Alexis Sanchez and Paul Pogba, both of Manchester United were the first to step forward a week ago and galvinised player support for those in need.
As De Bruyne commented over the weekend, 'we do a job we love and the amount we earn is quite obviously obscene. Its quite obvious who the essential workers are in the community and its not the bankers, club owners, chief executives.' He went on, 'we use to call them the little people - the refuse collectors and cleaners, nurses and shop workers - not any more, that's why we are all happy to donate to a charity of our club's choice.'
As I approach my sixth decade, the fabled connection between player and supporter is, shall we say, frayed.
Post by: algy on March 26, 2020, 08:00:15 AM
I'm a teacher, I am carrying on teaching, looking after the children of essential workers in inner Birmingham.Hopefully after the dust has settled, the people who we need most in society - "skilled" and "unskilled" - will be better recognised as such.
Agree entirely with three sentiments of the rest of your post. It'd be wonderful to see, from those who are able, support the communities they depend on :)
Post by: chrisw1 on March 26, 2020, 09:19:02 AM
Just thinking some of the best games ever under the lights.
5 1 Liverpool
2 1 Manure LC Semi
The Watford win in Jan was not too shabby either.
The Inter Milan games for me.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 26, 2020, 09:22:51 AM
I've had enough - This needs to be said.I'm not sure why you would post even an imaginary article from the Daily Mail?
I'm a teacher, I am carrying on teaching, looking after the children of essential workers in inner Birmingham.
I've been waiting for this news....and waiting....and waiting....so I thought I'd imagine how it would be reported if it happened.QuoteHats Off To Villa Stars (Daily Mail 26/03/20)
'Hats off to Villa Captain Jack Grealish for being the first Premier League player to pledge a month's salary to local children's charity, Accorns. The £35,000 a week Villa talisman was also quick to enlist the support of his Villa Team mates who have also made similar pledges in this time of need. Grealish was quoted in the local media, whilst self isolating at home, 'Aston Villa has a very strong link with its fans and the local community, for us, making a donation of this kind is just a small gesture, giving back to those people who are giving so much in this time of need.'
As of the 26th of March, and three weeks into the crisis, this claret and blue initiative stands along side similar donations by Premier League footballers. Kevin De Bruyne of Manchester City, Alexis Sanchez and Paul Pogba, both of Manchester United were the first to step forward a week ago and galvinised player support for those in need.
As De Bruyne commented over the weekend, 'we do a job we love and the amount we earn is quite obviously obscene. Its quite obvious who the essential workers are in the community and its not the bankers, club owners, chief executives.' He went on, 'we use to call them the little people - the refuse collectors and cleaners, nurses and shop workers - not any more, that's why we are all happy to donate to a charity of our club's choice.'
As I approach my sixth decade, the fabled connection between player and supporter is, shall we say, frayed.
Loads of footballers do a lot of charity work, much of it will go unreported. Calm down.
Post by: Mister E on March 26, 2020, 11:02:51 AM
... in the days when Gabby looked like he gave a shit.If we could play every home game at night I swear we'd win the league.
When I get the chance to return, it's always great to be back at Villa Park. But night games are just magical, no matter the opposition. Arsenal (Sammy Morgan), Liverpool 5-1Barca with Cruyff, Anderlect but more recently, how the Holte rose up as one when we needed the points, this one was magical.
One of the classic games.
Post by: usav on March 26, 2020, 11:56:25 AM
If we could play every home game at night I swear we'd win the league.
When I get the chance to return, it's always great to be back at Villa Park. But night games are just magical, no matter the opposition. Arsenal (Sammy Morgan), Liverpool 5-1Barca with Cruyff, Anderlect but more recently, how the Holte rose up as one when we needed the points, this one was magical.
That game means a lot to me for personal reasons that I won't go in to.
However, I will remind you all there have been some absolute stinkers under the lights as well down the years, but we can always pretend those never happened.
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 26, 2020, 12:50:47 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 26, 2020, 12:56:43 PM
Post by: Legion on March 26, 2020, 01:12:56 PM
Post by: Legion on March 26, 2020, 01:13:27 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 26, 2020, 03:38:28 PM
Quote
All football in England below the three divisions that make up the National League will end immediately and all results will be expunged.
It means there will be no promotion or relegation in these divisions.
The same will happen in the women's game below the Women's Super League and Championship level.
However, the National League, National League North and South, WSL and Women's Championship will continue towards a conclusion "as quickly as possible".
"These are challenging circumstances for English football and all decisions taken are in the best interests of the game," said a Football Association statement.
"Our primary concern will always be for the safety and welfare of clubs, players, staff, officials, volunteers and supporters during this unprecedented time.
"Today's steps take into account the financial impact during this uncertain period, whilst considering the fairest method on how the sporting outcomes for the season will be decided, with the integrity of the leagues in mind."
The decision applies to steps three to seven in men's non-league football, while all "grassroots" divisions below these tiers have also finished. It has still yet to be decided whether these seasons are to be voided.
In women's football, tiers three to seven have also ended.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52052351
Post by: Leicester_Villian on March 26, 2020, 03:40:00 PM
Could this be an indicator as to what may happen higher up the pyramid?
I am sure whatever the outcome many will be unhappy
Post by: Legion on March 26, 2020, 03:40:04 PM
Post by: andyh on March 26, 2020, 03:51:21 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 26, 2020, 03:59:19 PM
Post by: Risso on March 26, 2020, 04:07:25 PM
The National League want some form of promotion and, presumably, relegation,
I've got an idea, when the new season starts again in August, at the end of it, the top 3 can go up, and the bottom three can go down!
Post by: Dave P on March 26, 2020, 04:10:18 PM
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on March 26, 2020, 04:58:45 PM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 26, 2020, 05:30:16 PM
Post by: eric woolban woolban on March 26, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
He is the Club Masseur, direct contact with the players I thinkAlex Butler as well https://twitter.com/han_baggie/status/1242405439700074496
Recognise his face from shots of him coming in with the team on matchdays. Can also remember him being in the away end at the sty and celebrating Jack's goal.
What's his role in the club again. Worrying that he hasn't just got a mild form of this.
From fb re big al.
Hi everyone I have a message from Alex Butler mom.
"Al is doing fantastically well and we believe he is now over the worst"
He is however bored as theres no TVs on AMU 😂 ..... HE MUST BE BETTER ...... so glad your nearly over it mate!! Keep going ......we were all praying for you!!
Post by: aj2k77 on March 26, 2020, 06:11:49 PM
Newcastle manager Steve Bruce has called for a ‘Festival of Football’ with games every day to help get the season completed when it is safe to play again following the coronavirus pandemic.
We have to try and get this season finished, whatever that takes, everybody wants that – but we must also remember that the health and safety of players and staff is far more important than football,” Bruce said in an interview with The Telegraph.
“We should not return to training until it is absolutely safe to do so.
“We can have a ‘Festival of Football’ month, games every day, teams playing two or three games a week.
“It is not ideal, but if we can play 10 to 15 games in December and the start of January, we can do it to get this season finished.
“It probably means the start of next season will be delayed, we will probably have to scrap one of the cup competitions and do without a winter break, but it can be done.
“Whatever, however, we will find a way.”
Steve, old dead Potato, sorry to interrupt your bullshitting again but we don't play 10-15 games in December and the start of January, we played 8.
Fucking idiot.
Post by: Villan82 on March 26, 2020, 06:28:48 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 26, 2020, 06:39:06 PM
Let's face it, it only took illness to Arteta and Hudson-Odoi to completely derail the Premier League only a few weeks ago when the virus was at a lower level.
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 26, 2020, 06:39:30 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 26, 2020, 06:42:13 PM
The sensible decision making of those who run the leagues is inversely proportionate to the money those leagues generate.
Non-league supporters are calling the FA all the gutless, shambling idiots under the sun for doing the sensible thing.
Post by: David_Nab on March 26, 2020, 06:42:33 PM
Newcastle manager Steve Bruce has called for a ‘Festival of Football’ with games every day to help get the season completed when it is safe to play again following the coronavirus pandemic.
We have to try and get this season finished, whatever that takes, everybody wants that – but we must also remember that the health and safety of players and staff is far more important than football,” Bruce said in an interview with The Telegraph.
“We should not return to training until it is absolutely safe to do so.
“We can have a ‘Festival of Football’ month, games every day, teams playing two or three games a week.
“It is not ideal, but if we can play 10 to 15 games in December and the start of January, we can do it to get this season finished.
“It probably means the start of next season will be delayed, we will probably have to scrap one of the cup competitions and do without a winter break, but it can be done.
“Whatever, however, we will find a way.”
The same Steve Bruce who moaned about the safety of the players during the xmas period due to too many games close together ...
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 26, 2020, 06:50:26 PM
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1351157385058959
Post by: chrisw1 on March 26, 2020, 07:17:48 PM
The sensible decision making of those who run the leagues is inversely proportionate to the money those leagues generate.
The perception of whether a decision is sensible is inversley proportionate to how likely it is to fuck over the team you support.
Post by: andyh on March 26, 2020, 07:32:25 PM
Yep, Spuddy had a very different view back in Jan. Playing that many games (4 in 11 days) was "ludicrous".What a wanker he is.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1351157385058959
Post by: Legion on March 26, 2020, 07:34:17 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 26, 2020, 07:54:06 PM
He is the Club Masseur, direct contact with the players I thinkAlex Butler as well https://twitter.com/han_baggie/status/1242405439700074496
Recognise his face from shots of him coming in with the team on matchdays. Can also remember him being in the away end at the sty and celebrating Jack's goal.
What's his role in the club again. Worrying that he hasn't just got a mild form of this.
From fb re big al.
Hi everyone I have a message from Alex Butler mom.
"Al is doing fantastically well and we believe he is now over the worst"
He is however bored as theres no TVs on AMU 😂 ..... HE MUST BE BETTER ...... so glad your nearly over it mate!! Keep going ......we were all praying for you!!
Brilliant news.
Post by: Brassneck on March 26, 2020, 08:28:14 PM
The sensible decision making of those who run the leagues is inversely proportionate to the money those leagues generate.
The perception of whether a decision is sensible is inversley proportionate to how likely it is to fuck over the team you support.
Decision making that safeguards the existence of many clubs is certainly going to be proportionate to money generated/lost.
The same decision is not automatically proportionate to how likely it fucks over Villa.
Personally, I'll clutch at any straw that sees this season voided. However, the most sensible decision has to be the one that ensures survival of many clubs and sustainability of others.
Nobody thinks the integrity of a league (by way of completing a season) is more important than the overall stability and possible existence of that league. It doesn't mean that clubs are greedy (although we all know that they are). It means they have to make the best decision for the well being of the league. We're already reading about clubs asking players to take a temporary 50% wage reduction. How will those clubs survive if next season is sacrificed for the saving grace of this season being completed?
Whether you like it or not, whichever way you dress this up, the decision is going to be based around money and which option ensures the most money goes to the clubs involved.
Post by: eamonn on March 26, 2020, 09:15:43 PM
Yep, Spuddy had a very different view back in Jan. Playing that many games (4 in 11 days) was "ludicrous".What a wanker he is.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1351157385058959
Maybe he came to his senses. A wanker's epiphany.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 27, 2020, 06:44:56 AM
If you listen closely, you can hear the first calls of “It Ay Fair” coming from Sandwell.
They're probably making banners in Merseyside to lament the season being declared null and void as we speak. ;D
Post by: chrisw1 on March 27, 2020, 08:18:06 AM
As you know I disagree. I want them to void the season for obvious reasons but I don't necessarily agree it is the most sensible decision. Nor do I think finishing the season later in the year would necessarily be the most financially lucrative for the clubs. It would certainly be the fairest solution, albeit with flaws.The sensible decision making of those who run the leagues is inversely proportionate to the money those leagues generate.
The perception of whether a decision is sensible is inversley proportionate to how likely it is to fuck over the team you support.
Decision making that safeguards the existence of many clubs is certainly going to be proportionate to money generated/lost.
The same decision is not automatically proportionate to how likely it fucks over Villa.
Personally, I'll clutch at any straw that sees this season voided. However, the most sensible decision has to be the one that ensures survival of many clubs and sustainability of others.
Nobody thinks the integrity of a league (by way of completing a season) is more important than the overall stability and possible existence of that league. It doesn't mean that clubs are greedy (although we all know that they are). It means they have to make the best decision for the well being of the league. We're already reading about clubs asking players to take a temporary 50% wage reduction. How will those clubs survive if next season is sacrificed for the saving grace of this season being completed?
Whether you like it or not, whichever way you dress this up, the decision is going to be based around money and which option ensures the most money goes to the clubs involved.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 27, 2020, 08:46:05 AM
Ahh, the past. Good times, good times.
Post by: Big Ming on March 27, 2020, 10:52:24 AM
If you listen closely, you can hear the first calls of “It Ay Fair” coming from Sandwell.
They're probably making banners in Merseyside to lament the season being declared null and void as we speak. ;D
Wreaths and Teddy Bears to adorn the Shankly Gates.
Post by: clash city rocker on March 27, 2020, 02:36:18 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 27, 2020, 06:03:42 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 27, 2020, 06:29:29 PM
Covid time perception check: remember two weeks ago now when our game was still on?
Ahh, the past. Good times, good times.
And the Government said it was perfectly safe to have 250,000 people mingling together at Cheltenham over 4 days!
Post by: Ian. on March 27, 2020, 06:29:50 PM
Hypocritical potato head.When they lose 3 on the spin I wonder what excuse he will use?
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 27, 2020, 06:37:52 PM
that was madness - couldn't believe it went ahead - also couldn't believe people didn't think for themselves too.Covid time perception check: remember two weeks ago now when our game was still on?
Ahh, the past. Good times, good times.
And the Government said it was perfectly safe to have 250,000 people mingling together at Cheltenham over 4 days!
Post by: aj2k77 on March 27, 2020, 06:50:33 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 27, 2020, 08:56:17 PM
I think Aston Villa should come out and say something similar to all this faithful and loyal season ticket holders . At this time just to let supporters know where they are with things.
Post by: Legion on March 27, 2020, 08:57:44 PM
Post by: purpletrousers on March 27, 2020, 09:34:10 PM
Difficult decisions (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52070969)
And the photo of the last action, us getting banjaxed by Leicester. This game will forever be remembered as me trying to get a he’s goal stream at Dubai airport in between flights home, to realising I could actually *hear* commentary from a bar not far away. Nervously watching our bags from afar (I know, shouldn’t) whilst equally nervously watching us.
Then holding little AV (nine months yesterday) generously watching with me with apparent interest as I walk up and down between the different screens of the bar, with added spice of an East Asian sneezing dramatically loudly (and very very wet) into his face mask. The shocked/fearful eye contact between strangers. (Before I knew sneezing isn’t a symptom).
Getting tix for Rodders of this Parish to *finally* meet at the Chelsea game, planning on going. Then being relieved it’s called off.
Now keeping my powder dry about ‘efficiency savings’ we’ve (I’ve) had to make in the NHS over the years (now is not the time to remember cut upon Tory cuts, removing nursing bursaries & Brexit to further deplete our flatline staffing levels, right?), fear at totally unprotected colleagues, insufficiently protected colleagues (how very *dare* they downgrade WHO PPE guidelines to suit stocks we have (or can borrow from neighbouring Trusts)) friends and colleagues sick, friends Dad dead, neighbour admitted.
Getting scared when a friend in Devon (paramedics wouldn’t admit as they could still just about breathe independently) goes offline for a few hours last night and you fear they are dead (just checked doing a lot better).
Gratitude at kindness, being able to shop without crazy queues but still with crazy lack of social distance once the regular shoppers join us (facepalm).
Realisation that a lot of us will lose people close to us, remembering universal truths of impermanence and the few things that are ultimately reliable in this world.
Grateful for some recent happy memories down the Villa, as well as the downs.
Grateful to a Dad for blessing my childhood with our glory years.
Must call him and tell him I love him & Mum tomorrow.
Oh and grateful for the distraction and friendship here too. Take care of yourselves.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 28, 2020, 09:52:34 AM
Must say I am not that bothered what division we are in when a new season eventually starts. With sky clawing back their money the whole landscape may be totally different in 12 months time. As long as Aston Villa continue to play so I can get my fix at villa park then that will do for me.
I was really concerned about the threat of relegation, but given the current situation, it just doesn't seem that important anymore.
I still favour ending the season now and replaying it next season, but if (and that is a massive if) we are in a position to play football again by the middle of summer, I suppose they could just say the teams that have games in hand play those and then that is it. You then a have a few weeks to play the play offs and the remaining rounds of the FA Cup.
Finishing European competitions could be a lot tougher though given that the virus might still be prevalent in some countries at that time.
Post by: eamonn on March 28, 2020, 10:55:14 AM
Post by: exigo on March 28, 2020, 12:20:31 PM
Tweet linky. (https://twitter.com/ASRomaEN/status/1243613705226641412)
Post by: levico on March 28, 2020, 01:51:13 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 28, 2020, 03:42:03 PM
Post by: Ads on March 28, 2020, 04:07:56 PM
So Blose games can go ahead?
Well dispatched. Don't bowl there son.
Post by: Mister E on March 28, 2020, 04:19:12 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/28/premier-league-players-stop-training-uncertainty-coronavirus
Post by: levico on March 28, 2020, 04:19:50 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 28, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
The authorities are perhaps getting more real -The article reflects what has been said on here for a while.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/28/premier-league-players-stop-training-uncertainty-coronavirus
I can not see that they can complete this season without seriously disrupting next season.
I would suggest that they will eventually see that next season is more important and viable than this one
The money and UEFA will I believe come to the same conclusion.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 28, 2020, 07:38:55 PM
Geoffrey Chaucer
Post by: Border villan on March 28, 2020, 10:40:38 PM
"Time and tide wait for no man"According to Boris that tide will turn next week.
Geoffrey Chaucer
Hands up those who believe him.
Post by: ROBBO on March 29, 2020, 12:54:45 AM
Post by: brian green on March 29, 2020, 08:39:57 AM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on March 29, 2020, 09:20:19 AM
Trump says the churches will be full on April 12th. Can the football grounds be far behind?
April 12th 2021 maybe?
Hopefully nobody is paying attention to anything that prick is saying
Post by: PaulTheVillan on March 29, 2020, 09:20:53 AM
Does waving a middle finger at him count as putting my hand up?"Time and tide wait for no man"According to Boris that tide will turn next week.
Geoffrey Chaucer
Hands up those who believe him.
Post by: clash city rocker on March 29, 2020, 09:23:15 AM
Trump says the churches will be full on April 12th. Can the football grounds be far behind?
I think even the FA have more brain cells than Trump.
Post by: Richard E on March 29, 2020, 09:24:02 AM
"Time and tide wait for no man"According to Boris that tide will turn next week.
Geoffrey Chaucer
Hands up those who believe him.
Where has he said that?
Post by: nick harper on March 29, 2020, 09:31:17 AM
Patently unfair but how many clubs would vote against that.
Post by: Ads on March 29, 2020, 09:39:24 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on March 29, 2020, 09:48:12 AM
Post by: frank black on March 29, 2020, 10:15:44 AM
Trump says the churches will be full on April 12th. Can the football grounds be far behind?
April 12th 2021 maybe?
Hopefully nobody is paying attention to anything that prick is saying
It always amuses me the way the guys surrounding him stare at him when he comes out with the bollocks he does. It like he’s the embarrassing racist granddad. Don’t think he’s going get another term after this.
Post by: frank black on March 29, 2020, 10:18:40 AM
Latest suggestion from sources at the FA if the games cannot be squeezed in by July 16, according to The Times, is to play the two games needed so everyone has played 29 games and call that the end of the season, which of course would mean win or down for us.
Patently unfair but how many clubs would vote against that.
The solution will be, play season out if there’s time or call the whole thing off. Simple as that and none of these give em the title, relegate whoever and promote whoever schemes will be taken forward.
Post by: The Edge on March 29, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Latest suggestion from sources at the FA if the games cannot be squeezed in by July 16, according to The Times, is to play the two games needed so everyone has played 29 games and call that the end of the season, which of course would mean win or down for us.I did see that. Of all the solutions that sounds closest to a fair compromise but it's still riddled with what if's? If it was to happen can you imagine the tension of a packed Villa Park playing Sheffield United? We would be scrapping for our survival. They would be playing for 5th place which would be a Champions league spot if City's ban is upheld. Fuck me that would be some occasion. I think they could sell out the stadium twice over for that one.
Patently unfair but how many clubs would vote against that.
Post by: Richard on March 29, 2020, 10:53:54 AM
Post by: andyh on March 29, 2020, 10:59:56 AM
Latest suggestion from sources at the FA if the games cannot be squeezed in by July 16, according to The Times, is to play the two games needed so everyone has played 29 games and call that the end of the season, which of course would mean win or down for us.So only Villa, Sheff U, Arsenal and Man City would have to play a game.
Patently unfair but how many clubs would vote against that.
I wonder low long the clubs would be able to prepare for it ?
1 week after the restrictions are lifted ? 6 weeks after?
Maybe they could have a festival of football and play both games at Wembley like the play off weekend?
That way the PL and Wembley could make loads of money out it, we could start the mass movement of people again and Westherspoons pubs down Wembley way could claw back some lost revenue.
Sorted.
Post by: eamonn on March 29, 2020, 11:01:20 AM
Post by: Pete3206 on March 29, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
Post by: TheMalandro on March 29, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 29, 2020, 12:43:59 PM
Pence stares lovingly like a puppy dog.Trump says the churches will be full on April 12th. Can the football grounds be far behind?
April 12th 2021 maybe?
Hopefully nobody is paying attention to anything that prick is saying
It always amuses me the way the guys surrounding him stare at him when he comes out with the bollocks he does. It like he’s the embarrassing racist granddad. Don’t think he’s going get another term after this.
Sadly he is on course to win bigly.
Post by: Border villan on March 29, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
"Time and tide wait for no man"According to Boris that tide will turn next week.
Geoffrey Chaucer
Hands up those who believe him.
Where has he said that?
Just over a week ago in one of his stirring speeches he spoke of the tide turning in a fortnight.
Post by: Villan82 on March 29, 2020, 01:27:25 PM
I’m guessing that all these ideas are being floated around to reinforce the position that ‘everything was discussed and no consensus was found, season over’
Hopefully.
Post by: Ads on March 29, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Post by: Richard E on March 29, 2020, 01:36:07 PM
"Time and tide wait for no man"According to Boris that tide will turn next week.
Geoffrey Chaucer
Hands up those who believe him.
Where has he said that?
Just over a week ago in one of his stirring speeches he spoke of the tide turning in a fortnight.
He said 12 weeks, not 2.
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 29, 2020, 01:39:44 PM
Latest suggestion from sources at the FA if the games cannot be squeezed in by July 16, according to The Times, is to play the two games needed so everyone has played 29 games and call that the end of the season, which of course would mean win or down for us.
Patently unfair but how many clubs would vote against that.
I can think of six straight away.
Post by: OzVilla on March 29, 2020, 01:45:08 PM
Latest suggestion from sources at the FA if the games cannot be squeezed in by July 16, according to The Times, is to play the two games needed so everyone has played 29 games and call that the end of the season, which of course would mean win or down for us.
Patently unfair but how many clubs would vote against that.
The solution will be, play season out if there’s time or call the whole thing off. Simple as that and none of these give em the title, relegate whoever and promote whoever schemes will be taken forward.
This, just playing a one off game and saying that’s it is the least likely scenario of them all. However it also magnifies what an utterly fucking atrocious job we did out of our last 4 games particularly Bournemouth, Southampton and Leicester. To put in such half arsed efforts against these sides on the runs they were on was criminal.
Post by: walsall villain on March 29, 2020, 01:51:24 PM
Alphabetical finishing. Champions League for us, West Ham still get relegated.VAR will decide we are really known as Villa, and relegate us.
Post by: gpbarr on March 29, 2020, 02:56:39 PM
1. Void the season totally - any legal claims will likely be tossed out because it will follow precedent elsewhere through world soccer
2. Pick up the season in August, play out remainder of the season then, shorten the next season (or squeeze it in and cancel the cups for 1 year).
There is ZERO chance any games start pre July and that essentially puts us in either option 2 (because time won’t allow 9 games in 6 weeks) or 1.
What a mess. Don’t envy those who have to make this decision
Post by: Brassneck on March 29, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
There has to be some form of unity across the leagues because otherwise, you could have all sorts of permutations.
I think UEFA will give a deadline on when leagues must be finished (and when new seasons may start). From there the leagues will be forced to determine how promotions and relegations are decided - If any take place of course.
An option could be that this season's European competitions are carried over to next season in order to help ease the amount of games played. We could also do this domestically with this season's FA Cup.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 29, 2020, 03:31:14 PM
Alphabetical finishing. Champions League for us, West Ham still get relegated.VAR will decide we are really known as Villa, and relegate us.
We would still be above Watford, West Ham and Wolves!
Post by: Border villan on March 29, 2020, 03:35:13 PM
Correct. But it still has an echo of “all over by Christmas” and that did not go well."Time and tide wait for no man"According to Boris that tide will turn next week.
Geoffrey Chaucer
Hands up those who believe him.
Where has he said that?
Just over a week ago in one of his stirring speeches he spoke of the tide turning in a fortnight.
He said 12 weeks, not 2.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 29, 2020, 04:32:40 PM
https://twitter.com/bigal2881?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Post by: frank black on March 29, 2020, 04:34:39 PM
Alex Butler recovered and going home, fantastic news.
https://twitter.com/bigal2881?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Yes great news
Post by: walsall villain on March 29, 2020, 04:52:58 PM
Right that’s tomorrow sorted, I’ll have a go at learning the alphabet.Alphabetical finishing. Champions League for us, West Ham still get relegated.VAR will decide we are really known as Villa, and relegate us.
We would still be above Watford, West Ham and Wolves!
Post by: Legion on March 29, 2020, 04:54:17 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 29, 2020, 04:55:23 PM
Post by: walsall villain on March 29, 2020, 04:55:44 PM
I blame the effect of living in Walsall.I’m in stonnal these days but it hasn’t improved my brain cell count
Post by: walsall villain on March 29, 2020, 04:56:44 PM
I blame the standard of teachers in Walsall.It wouldn’t help my defence if I admitted I used to teach in Walsall?
Post by: Louzie0 on March 29, 2020, 04:59:45 PM
That would take resources away from keeping the health services going for everyone.
Matches really aren’t that essential.
(Tried for a Walsall/ Education slant but no dice.)
Edit - sorted!
Post by: PaulTheVillan on March 29, 2020, 08:46:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 29, 2020, 09:41:03 PM
I'm kinda hoping this virus wipes out football. I've not missed it at all.
I kind of hope it doesn’t. It’s quite meaningful for a lot of people.
Post by: David_Nab on March 29, 2020, 10:23:40 PM
Post by: Legion on March 29, 2020, 10:24:23 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 29, 2020, 10:26:39 PM
Who gives a fuck about your shitty league?
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 29, 2020, 10:27:23 PM
Post by: andyh on March 29, 2020, 10:50:07 PM
The batshit desperate chasing of ways to get out of owing Sky a load of money is frankly grotesque.That is precisely what will be the overriding factor in all this.
Who gives a fuck about your shitty league?
How can Sky turn this into some kind of ‘event’ that can make them loads of money and have Jim Whathisname shouting in his yellow tie.
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 29, 2020, 11:16:06 PM
Trump says the churches will be full on April 12th. Can the football grounds be far behind?
Trump is also a complete fucking imbecile.
Post by: clash city rocker on March 29, 2020, 11:18:26 PM
Trump says the churches will be full on April 12th. Can the football grounds be far behind?
Trump is also a complete fucking imbecile.
He ain't that clever
Post by: ROBBO on March 30, 2020, 12:11:48 AM
Post by: adrenachrome on March 30, 2020, 01:31:26 AM
I can see quite a big link between anyone who agreed with this, and anyone who has never been to a match in their life
Nail on the head.
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 30, 2020, 06:28:12 AM
I can see quite a big link between anyone who agreed with this, and anyone who says they support Liverpool and has never been to a match in their life
You missed out a bit.
Post by: mr underhill on March 30, 2020, 07:16:08 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 30, 2020, 09:05:37 AM
How's the tree doing?I blame the effect of living in Walsall.I’m in stonnal these days but it hasn’t improved my brain cell count
Post by: walsall villain on March 30, 2020, 09:13:37 AM
Fine but lonely like many of us in these times.How's the tree doing?I blame the effect of living in Walsall.I’m in stonnal these days but it hasn’t improved my brain cell count
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 30, 2020, 10:55:07 AM
The batshit desperate chasing of ways to get out of owing Sky a load of money is frankly grotesque.
Who gives a fuck about your shitty league?
Quite, another frankly embarrassing idea.
Post by: mr underhill on March 30, 2020, 12:09:18 PM
Post by: CyprusVillain on March 30, 2020, 07:29:35 PM
As I posted earlier in the week..............................
Quote
I've had enough - This needs to be said.
I'm a teacher, I am carrying on teaching, looking after the children of essential workers in inner Birmingham.
I've been waiting for this news....and waiting....and waiting....so I thought I'd imagine how it would be reported if it happened.QuoteHats Off To Villa Stars (Daily Mail 26/03/20)
'Hats off to Villa Captain Jack Grealish for being the first Premier League player to pledge a month's salary to local children's charity, Accorns. The £35,000 a week Villa talisman was also quick to enlist the support of his Villa Team mates who have also made similar pledges in this time of need. Grealish was quoted in the local media, whilst self isolating at home, 'Aston Villa has a very strong link with its fans and the local community, for us, making a donation of this kind is just a small gesture, giving back to those people who are giving so much in this time of need.'
As of the 26th of March, and three weeks into the crisis, this claret and blue initiative stands along side similar donations by Premier League footballers. Kevin De Bruyne of Manchester City, Alexis Sanchez and Paul Pogba, both of Manchester United were the first to step forward a week ago and galvinised player support for those in need.
As De Bruyne commented over the weekend, 'we do a job we love and the amount we earn is quite obviously obscene. Its quite obvious who the essential workers are in the community and its not the bankers, club owners, chief executives.' He went on, 'we use to call them the little people - the refuse collectors and cleaners, nurses and shop workers - not any more, that's why we are all happy to donate to a charity of our club's choice.'
As I approach my sixth decade, the fabled connection between player and supporter is, shall we say, frayed.
Post by: CyprusVillain on March 30, 2020, 07:31:16 PM
I genuinely feel sorry for those people who do not experience this crisis as a time in which to reflect on the priorities we bring to life.
Post by: CyprusVillain on March 30, 2020, 07:45:38 PM
Post by: CyprusVillain on March 30, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
Post by: Legion on March 30, 2020, 08:01:16 PM
Post by: Legion on March 30, 2020, 08:02:26 PM
Oh, and well done a second time.....I know feel so much more affinity with a bluenose co-worker who has refused to attend St Andrews for many years since the dislocation between player and supporter became so obvious. I'm standing with him.......not you.
I really don't know where to begin with this.
Post by: CyprusVillain on March 30, 2020, 08:09:10 PM
Post by: Legion on March 30, 2020, 08:10:48 PM
Post by: john2710 on March 30, 2020, 09:06:42 PM
The PL are in denial if they think they can somehow turn this into a festival of football.
Clubs, players, agents & the PL are going to learn very soon that things won't be as they were for quite a while.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 30, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 30, 2020, 09:17:29 PM
Post by: Ads on March 30, 2020, 09:32:45 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 30, 2020, 10:34:47 PM
Post by: Richard E on March 30, 2020, 10:41:16 PM
Given there is no sport on to watch, have Sky Sports actually offered anyone a rebate? They really should, shouldn't they?
You can pause your subscription online, but they put the onus on you rather than doing it automatically.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 30, 2020, 10:41:46 PM
Post by: David_Nab on March 30, 2020, 10:45:52 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8169229/Premier-League-plan-resume-season-closed-doors-start-MAY.html
Weakened teams ..no problem
Play the youths ..no problem
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 30, 2020, 10:48:38 PM
Just when you through it couldnt get more stupid
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8169229/Premier-League-plan-resume-season-closed-doors-start-MAY.html
Weakened teams ..no problem
Play the youths ..no problem
All about the integrity of the league!
Post by: David_Nab on March 30, 2020, 10:54:58 PM
Just when you through it couldnt get more stupid
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8169229/Premier-League-plan-resume-season-closed-doors-start-MAY.html
Weakened teams ..no problem
Play the youths ..no problem
All about the integrity of the league!
I wonder what team asked to play the youth team ...
Post by: OCD on March 31, 2020, 12:32:17 AM
Post by: CT on March 31, 2020, 07:24:25 AM
Given there is no sport on to watch, have Sky Sports actually offered anyone a rebate? They really should, shouldn't they?
Here you go Newby.
https://www.sky.com/shop/tv/sports/pause?DCMP=ilc-skycom:ec_pause_sports
Just log in and hit pause. You still keep the channels too and only start paying again once live sport returns.
Post by: SteveN on March 31, 2020, 07:52:30 AM
Post by: algy on March 31, 2020, 08:29:49 AM
Presumably the players will have to keep 2 metres apart if social distancing is still a requirement?So business as usual for our defenders...
Post by: algy on March 31, 2020, 08:32:39 AM
If they did that they need to scrap relegation because that damages the integrity of the competition. They still need to consider player wellbeing though. Covid 19 has still killed young, healthy people and a situation where resuming play leads to a players death is unthinkable.Yeah, that idea won't get off the ground. There's zero chance of the government allowing that but putting down fines for anyone caught playing 5-a-side
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 31, 2020, 08:47:21 AM
Post by: mr underhill on March 31, 2020, 09:07:53 AM
Post by: andyh on March 31, 2020, 09:08:47 AM
The risks to health are obvious, but what about the risk of crowds still gathering where games are taking place ? Will the police be happy to deal with that.
And, if this is all about money, which it obviously is, what about the money that thousands of fans across the country have shelled out on season tickets? Will they be refunded?
And then of course there is the small matter of the football league.
The ‘story’ relates to the Premier League, but what about football in the real world, how is that going to be resolved?
It’s all just cock.
Void the season for everyone and start afresh when it’s safe to do so.
Post by: SteveN on March 31, 2020, 10:03:17 AM
And Sky and BT can go and do.one.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 31, 2020, 11:47:11 AM
Given there is no sport on to watch, have Sky Sports actually offered anyone a rebate? They really should, shouldn't they?
Here you go Newby.
https://www.sky.com/shop/tv/sports/pause?DCMP=ilc-skycom:ec_pause_sports
Just log in and hit pause. You still keep the channels too and only start paying again once live sport returns.
What a shame,they are having technical difficulties so my instruction can't be processed.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 31, 2020, 12:07:48 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 31, 2020, 12:22:01 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 31, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
Just make sure Liverpool are fucked over, they're getting on my nerves.
Void the season and give the Champions League places to the four semi finalists in the only English domestic competition to have reached a conclusion.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 31, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 31, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on March 31, 2020, 02:54:14 PM
Just a thought, you would have to think that the Transfer market will be decimated as Football Finances will be massively strained.
Could we return to a little bit normality.
Post by: Chris Smith on March 31, 2020, 03:11:15 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 31, 2020, 03:36:46 PM
Ultimately whatever happens the football calender will have to be rewritten over next 18 months to how it's been generally over last 20 years. Interested what happens.
Post by: Chris Smith on March 31, 2020, 04:06:11 PM
Think euro competitions will be dropped for a year unless they go for these one off ties in one location that was talked about last week.
Ultimately whatever happens the football calender will have to be rewritten over next 18 months to how it's been generally over last 20 years. Interested what happens.
That would be sensible but with the money that the CL generates it will be challenged.
Post by: eamonn on April 01, 2020, 12:28:20 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 01, 2020, 01:21:31 AM
Post by: aev on April 01, 2020, 07:44:08 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 01, 2020, 07:47:32 AM
Post by: olaftab on April 01, 2020, 10:24:37 AM
"So, the Premier League - use PPG (and then goal difference, greater goals scored etc) to produce final table. Liverpool will be champions and the remaining Champions League and Europa League spots will be allocated in the normal way. Off pitch issues i.e. FFP sanctions of course still stand. No relegation.
Championship – PPG determines the table and top 3 promoted i.e. no play off to determine 3rd promotion spot. No relegation.
League 1 – as per Championship
League 2 – as per Championship but 4 promoted as Bury liquidation has created an additional vacancy.
National League – PPG determines the table and top 4 promoted. No relegation.
Post by: olaftab on April 01, 2020, 10:26:12 AM
Post by: andyh on April 01, 2020, 10:29:21 AM
I suppose the number of teams relegated would increase next season to reduce the leagues back to their number.
Of course the biggest issue is how do you stop 10’s of thousands of scousers from taking to the streets to celebrate ?
Post by: olaftab on April 01, 2020, 10:32:06 AM
Post by: andyh on April 01, 2020, 11:22:18 AM
If tennis scheduled for end of June in mid July is already being called off, how the feck do the footballing authorities even start to justify that football ‘might’ continue from April/May/June or whatever.
The football authorities need to grow some balls (😉) void everything and put this to bed once and for all.
Infact, I’m getting more and more angry about this situation.
Every prestigious sporting event has taken a hit already. The olympics (the most expensive event in the sporting world), F1, The Grand National, The Boat Race, The Six Nations, The Euros plus countless others I haven’t listed
And yet domestic football still thinks there were be some miraculous solution where the game, the players, the support staff, the tv companies, the technicians, the emergency services are all immune to what’s going on so that they can protect ‘the integrity of the game’.
Just call it now you gutless bunch of money grabbing buffoons.
Post by: rjp on April 01, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on April 01, 2020, 01:11:12 PM
There's 750 million reasons why they want to finish the season if the reports of the Sky deal penalties are correct. Although I'd be happy to see it cancelled for obvious reasons I'm expecting them to find a way to finish it. Would it be plausible to start next season late and play the cups etc. in full but only play each other once in the league rather than home and away?
To me that would be worse than cancelling this season now. How could you have a fair and competitive season of 19 games with no home and away games?
They're clutching at straws now just to keep Sky happy
Post by: andyh on April 01, 2020, 01:18:38 PM
The PL needs Sky.
Sky needs the PL.
Under the circumstances, it should be the easiest thing for them to come together and mutually agree the void this season and neither party will be financially punished.
Post by: Drummond on April 01, 2020, 01:23:55 PM
And this is where it all makes no sense.
The PL needs Sky.
Sky needs the PL.
Under the circumstances, it should be the easiest thing for them to come together and mutually agree the void this season and neither party will be financially punished.
Sky already are by having lost a lot of subscriptions from homes and pubs etc. They've paid for a product they aren't getting.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 01, 2020, 01:53:47 PM
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 01, 2020, 01:56:28 PM
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/coronavirus-data-shows-sudden-rise-18012228
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 01, 2020, 02:03:49 PM
Listening to John Murray this morning and the behind closed door option is still being talked about.
They need to knock this shit on the head. Football is NOT an essential industry.
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 01, 2020, 02:07:09 PM
these fucknuts are going to ensure the game dies if they persist in finding excuses not to respond to the circumstances surrounding them.
Many grounds are being given over to help with treatment, players before lockdown were going out and helping in community so I'd say Football is playing a small part although of course stories like Spurs yesterday don't help with that perception.
Think Football is just saying in 3-4 months if things are slowly getting back to normality give us the chance to get back to our normality and plans have to be drawn up for that (of course these can be quickly scrapped if it's simply not safe to do so).
One thing I won't miss this summer though is in the last decade the ridiculous hyping up of transfer windows and long sagas (seemed to start the year Barry was on verge of joining Liverpool for two months). I'd like to think that particular part of football industry will have a reality check and some yellow ties will be burnt.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 01, 2020, 02:09:14 PM
Post by: Nev on April 01, 2020, 03:08:47 PM
I said before, we'll be lucky to see the new season KO in normality never mind anything else. An autumn re-start is the most likely with a suspension of the League Cup for a season to allow for the delay.
Post by: spartacuss on April 01, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
I don't know what's been asked or offered, but looking around a lot of clubs seem to be doing much more than us.(Apologies if this topic has already been hammered into submission) Any club statement yet on whether the non-playing staff will have their wages honoured in full or will they be relying on the government 80% scheme? (In contrast to our players - who I don't think will miss a Mercedes or two while they're 'suffering' the constraints of the lockdown.)
If all of us are part of the 'family' of Villa, then proper financial consideration and regard for those (in the background, but essential) members of the family who depend on the club for their wages and livelihoods should be a priority. If not, why not?
Post by: aj2k77 on April 01, 2020, 04:02:29 PM
Post by: Rory on April 01, 2020, 05:10:17 PM
I don't know what's been asked or offered, but looking around a lot of clubs seem to be doing much more than us.(Apologies if this topic has already been hammered into submission) Any club statement yet on whether the non-playing staff will have their wages honoured in full or will they be relying on the government 80% scheme? (In contrast to our players - who I don't think will miss a Mercedes or two while they're 'suffering' the constraints of the lockdown.)
If all of us are part of the 'family' of Villa, then proper financial consideration and regard for those (in the background, but essential) members of the family who depend on the club for their wages and livelihoods should be a priority. If not, why not?
My brother works on the turnstiles and he hasn't been told anything at all. He wants to know before deciding whether or not to claim Universal Credit, but his manager won't give him an answer.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 01, 2020, 05:12:26 PM
What's the point of behind closed doors games? It's a form of entertainment isn't it?
Well, it used to be, until about 2010.
Post by: john2710 on April 01, 2020, 05:40:23 PM
Everyone is taking a financial hit, so why shouldn't football?
Post by: CyprusVillain on April 01, 2020, 06:57:21 PM
This crisis is revealling how morally corrupt football had become. I read today that non-playing staff are taking a pay cut at Spurs, whilst their millionaire players continue to earn as normal. Also, cases of the coronavirus are soaring in Liverpool, brining into question why on March 11 3,000 fans from Madrid (in the middle of a coronavirus outbreak) were allowed to come to Liverpool, drink and socialise in pubs and then attend football match. Hopefully this crisis will drain the coffers of football and allow some normality in the game to return.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/coronavirus-data-shows-sudden-rise-18012228
Should this not prompt all fans, including fans of AVFC, to seriously reconsider their relationship with their team? I have waited, and waited and waited for self driven initiative to come from the players themselves.....instead I get rank hypocrisy and a car crash.
My loyalty is the the AVFC community first, the club second and the players, now and sadly, a distant third.
Post by: algy on April 01, 2020, 07:00:38 PM
With things like the Edinburgh Festivals going west the idea of Football being anywhere near resumption is more than fanciful.It's not even that though, cos the teams will need some time to train & prepare for the new/resumed season - at the moment a week or two would do, but leave it to August and it'll be more like a month.
I said before, we'll be lucky to see the new season KO in normality never mind anything else. An autumn re-start is the most likely with a suspension of the League Cup for a season to allow for the delay.
You can't allow professional football to start of you're not allowing park football to take place, and with that in mind I think August would be fanciful. If it turns out to be a seasonal virus, I can't season either this season or next being viable
Post by: Villan82 on April 01, 2020, 07:01:24 PM
Post by: Ads on April 01, 2020, 07:03:05 PM
Post by: brian green on April 01, 2020, 07:17:40 PM
Post by: Villafirst on April 01, 2020, 07:42:57 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 01, 2020, 08:51:37 PM
Quote
Effective today, and for the duration of this situation, Comcast senior leaders, Mike Cavanagh, Dave Watson, Jeff Shell, [Sky CEO]Jeremy Darroch and Brian Roberts have chosen to donate 100% of their salaries to charities that support COVID-19 relief efforts. #ProudToWorkAtComcast
Post by: CyprusVillain on April 01, 2020, 08:52:20 PM
All PL players should take a 50% cut in wages for a few months. That would avoid putting other club workers onto the Government 's furlough scheme. It's immoral that the likes of Spus are going down that route. Plenty of other companies need the furlough scheme not greedy football clubs.
The tone deafness of the footballing world is astonishing.
Quote
Premier League football plays a central role in British life. Clubs and players are put on pedestals, treated as role models and heroes. They did not ask for it to be that way but to say those at the top do not benefit, and enjoy benefiting, from that privilege is nonsense. That is why actions such as those taken by Newcastle, Tottenham and Norwich have immediately and pungently failed the smell test.https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/01/premier-league-clubs-have-failed-the-smell-test-in-furloughing-their-staff (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/01/premier-league-clubs-have-failed-the-smell-test-in-furloughing-their-staff)
In the middle of all this are the players. We are used to the fetishisation of their great wealth and the question, never far behind, as to whether they deserve it. They did not create this problem but their union, the Professional Footballers’ Association, is wrangling with the Premier League over whether their wages should be subject to alteration in order to help clubs stay afloat.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 01, 2020, 09:06:34 PM
The club can confirm chief executive Neill Blake, first team technical director Richard Hughes, manager Eddie Howe and assistant manager Jason Tindall have taken significant, voluntary pay cuts.
#afcb 🍒
https://t.co/IJ7A4h5nhp
Still furloughing staff, mind.
Post by: Legion on April 01, 2020, 09:07:30 PM
All PL players should take a 50% cut in wages for a few months. That would avoid putting other club workers onto the Government 's furlough scheme. It's immoral that the likes of Spus are going down that route. Plenty of other companies need the furlough scheme not greedy football clubs.
Or a week's worth of their monthly wage. That in itself should be sufficient.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 01, 2020, 09:15:46 PM
Post by: brian green on April 01, 2020, 09:24:00 PM
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 01, 2020, 09:26:16 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 01, 2020, 09:41:20 PM
I miss it and the normality that came with it. It's hard to be engaged with anything particularly current about it, given the absence of games or the summer window tediousness.
I agree. Trying to work up about whether Dean Smith is a good manager or not at premier league level or whether we should spend/waste another 100m in the summer feel very trivial atm.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 01, 2020, 09:56:33 PM
Osman started all this.
Russell?
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 01, 2020, 10:10:59 PM
Osman started all this.
Russell?
Or Leon. He scored against us the fucker.
Post by: OzVilla on April 01, 2020, 10:20:37 PM
Can’t imagine that our wage bill is that high by PL standards.
Post by: andyh on April 01, 2020, 10:22:18 PM
And if you do, I wholeheartedly agree.
His freedom of contract/movement stance put all the power into the hands of the players or more accurately, their (bastard) agents.
Post by: Des Little on April 01, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 02, 2020, 12:13:19 AM
Post by: Matt C on April 02, 2020, 02:17:51 AM
Post by: brian green on April 02, 2020, 06:35:52 AM
Post by: sid1964 on April 02, 2020, 07:01:25 AM
The reality is that they will simply have the pay deferred and will receive the unpaid wages at a later date
Even my company the Directors etc.. are taking a 50% wage cut (and they wont get the money back)
Post by: mr underhill on April 02, 2020, 08:59:40 AM
Post by: OzVilla on April 02, 2020, 09:18:00 AM
Post by: Dave on April 02, 2020, 09:44:58 AM
I’m sure your typo actually meant to say Bosman, Brian?
And if you do, I wholeheartedly agree.
His freedom of contract/movement stance put all the power into the hands of the players or more accurately, their (bastard) agents.
Which while imperfect, is far better than the situation as it was before.
Post by: brian green on April 02, 2020, 10:34:29 AM
Post by: aev on April 02, 2020, 11:04:24 AM
Post by: andyh on April 02, 2020, 12:49:35 PM
English RFU have I think decided to promote and relegate as the table stand (with an adjustment I think for games played).Shit 😉
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 02, 2020, 12:57:11 PM
English RFU have I think decided to promote and relegate as the table stand (with an adjustment I think for games played).
Saracens had already been relegated for cheating, so makes perfect sense there. They deserve to be punished. We don't deserve to be punished for making the League Cup Final.
Post by: rjp on April 02, 2020, 01:13:22 PM
Quote
They (the players) did not create this problem but their union, the Professional Footballers’ Association, is wrangling with the Premier League over whether their wages should be subject to alteration in order to help clubs stay afloat.
The PFA does not trust the clubs and perhaps rightly so. On the other hand the PFA is an opaque organisation with questions that linger over what it does with its substantial revenues beyond paying its chief executive, Gordon Taylor, a salary comparable to that of a Premier League player.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/01/premier-league-clubs-have-failed-the-smell-test-in-furloughing-their-staff (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/01/premier-league-clubs-have-failed-the-smell-test-in-furloughing-their-staff)
I think Gordon Taylor is a good candidate for the c*** list.
Post by: Villafirst on April 02, 2020, 01:25:40 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 02, 2020, 01:53:58 PM
Post by: brontebilly on April 02, 2020, 02:02:57 PM
Appears the Belgian league is over. Brugge are champions and no relegation but 2 promoted.
Firmly expect the same decision in the EPL.
Any confirmation that all high earners at Villa Park are donating or sharing their wages with the rest of the workforce at the club? Would be a noble gesture from those who can well afford it.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 02, 2020, 02:14:51 PM
Appears the Belgian league is over. Brugge are champions and no relegation but 2 promoted.This would be great. Only bettered if there's no promotions. FTA.
Post by: Dave P on April 02, 2020, 02:20:41 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 02, 2020, 02:32:26 PM
How close is the Belgian 2nd division? How are they deciding who goes up?
I. Don't. Know.
It's the First Division B, only eight teams, play home and away twice in two phases. And then a relegation phase. Whoda thunk it, Belgians being weird...
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 02, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
Post by: aev on April 02, 2020, 03:21:50 PM
English RFU have I think decided to promote and relegate as the table stand (with an adjustment I think for games played).
Saracens had already been relegated for cheating, so makes perfect sense there. They deserve to be punished. We don't deserve to be punished for making the League Cup Final.
They haven’t actually worked out what to do with the Premiership (though the financial cheats will be relegated).
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 02, 2020, 06:41:06 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2020, 07:01:38 PM
It may seem shit that clubs are doing it but they are still paying out massive sums with nothing coming in apart from maybe online merchandise sales.
Post by: BC Villain on April 02, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Utter bastard
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 02, 2020, 08:03:33 PM
Gordon Taylor urging players NOT to accept pay cuts.Utter utter and always has been
Utter bastard
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 02, 2020, 08:12:08 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 02, 2020, 08:12:20 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 02, 2020, 08:24:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 02, 2020, 08:32:47 PM
Maybe blame the PFA as it seems they won't currently allow any wage deductions for players, and have instructed every player not to accept any wage deduction offers until they've spoken to the PFA as a squad and the PFA have seen each club's finances.
It may seem shit that clubs are doing it but they are still paying out massive sums with nothing coming in apart from maybe online merchandise sales.
That’s part of it, but even without that the Premier League clubs are swimming in money and the approach is just a disgrace.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 02, 2020, 08:39:33 PM
Deductions should be graduated as a kind of means test, Premiership players, basically all millionaires. should have they wage reduced by 70%, part should go into a pool to go towards financing the lower leagues out of this crisis, the remainder should go straight into the NHS where anything and everything helps, just that bit more, Championship players as a means tested process, so on and so forth, if Taylor has said this, then somebody needs to pull him to one side and explain to him, things could get very tough for him in the future, remind him that nearly 600 people have died in the past 24 hours and its going to get a lot worse.
Depends if his members have been offered 70%. Have they, I haven't seen that anywhere? If they're being offered 50%, or even being asked to not have any pay for a few months, while other industries are offering 70, 80, 90% of pay then of course he is right to try to stand up for his members. He would be mad to start negotiating from a low base.
You don't know what's on the table.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 02, 2020, 09:00:17 PM
Deductions should be graduated as a kind of means test, Premiership players, basically all millionaires. should have they wage reduced by 70%, part should go into a pool to go towards financing the lower leagues out of this crisis, the remainder should go straight into the NHS where anything and everything helps, just that bit more, Championship players as a means tested process, so on and so forth, if Taylor has said this, then somebody needs to pull him to one side and explain to him, things could get very tough for him in the future, remind him that nearly 600 people have died in the past 24 hours and its going to get a lot worse.
Depends if his members have been offered 70%. Have they, I haven't seen that anywhere? If they're being offered 50%, or even being asked to not have any pay for a few months, while other industries are offering 70, 80, 90% of pay then of course he is right to try to stand up for his members. He would be mad to start negotiating from a low base.
You don't know what's on the table.
Yeah, I can see what your saying, point is I think we are coming from different ends of the stick, your end is one of negotiation, consensus and doing what best for me, my end is, extraordinary times, unprecedented, dangerous, the rule book is out the window, I'm suggesting they should be made to do it, just has the rest of the country with millions losing jobs having to make sacrifices, having to put there lives on the line for others, football and its little machinations count for nothing, these are not normal times, the other point I would make, if these players don't step up to the plate the public will never ever forgive them, players already get blasted for the money making millionaires of what is fundamentally a working class sport with its roots in the working classes, if they continue to act arrogant in this manner I could actually see a massive down turn in the support for the game.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2020, 09:04:02 PM
What got more publicity, the Villa squad giving all that money to Acorns a few weeks ago or Jack being a twat?
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 02, 2020, 09:04:08 PM
To clarify: that's 75% of their wages not a 75% cut.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 02, 2020, 09:16:46 PM
Sounds like the Premier League are offering 75% across the board. Will see how it plays out. In honesty, Taylor has much less power than usual anyway as they can't exactly threaten to strike, can they?
To clarify: that's 75% of their wages not a 75% cut.
So they should, Taylor in the end, loves his OBE, these are very emotional times, in any case they need to think long term, much bigger picture, this (last) season is over, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the next season didn't start as normal, not in the slightest.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 02, 2020, 09:32:48 PM
I can not see how PL clubs are swimming in moneyMaybe blame the PFA as it seems they won't currently allow any wage deductions for players, and have instructed every player not to accept any wage deduction offers until they've spoken to the PFA as a squad and the PFA have seen each club's finances.
It may seem shit that clubs are doing it but they are still paying out massive sums with nothing coming in apart from maybe online merchandise sales.
That’s part of it, but even without that the Premier League clubs are swimming in money and the approach is just a disgrace.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 02, 2020, 09:34:27 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 02, 2020, 09:43:50 PM
Sounds like the Premier League are offering 75% across the board. Will see how it plays out. In honesty, Taylor has much less power than usual anyway as they can't exactly threaten to strike, can they?I guess that fits with 25% of season lost and be the settlement with TV companies.
To clarify: that's 75% of their wages not a 75% cut.
Post by: Border villan on April 02, 2020, 09:53:17 PM
Post by: john2710 on April 02, 2020, 11:18:22 PM
Players salary should drop for 4 months to 60%, 25% to cover the remainder of the season & 15% to support lower league clubs.
If Sky / the PL want to protect their product then they too should provide some level of support to lower league clubs. Everyone has to contribute.
Post by: AsTallAsLions on April 02, 2020, 11:27:39 PM
I can not see how PL clubs are swimming in moneyMaybe blame the PFA as it seems they won't currently allow any wage deductions for players, and have instructed every player not to accept any wage deduction offers until they've spoken to the PFA as a squad and the PFA have seen each club's finances.
It may seem shit that clubs are doing it but they are still paying out massive sums with nothing coming in apart from maybe online merchandise sales.
That’s part of it, but even without that the Premier League clubs are swimming in money and the approach is just a disgrace.
PL clubs bleed money daily, with the exception of 1 or 2 with a worldwide merchandising and brand presence (ala Manchester United).
Post by: Ads on April 02, 2020, 11:32:46 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 02, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 02, 2020, 11:46:30 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/C9TbWYV/FB-IMG-1585867149370.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C9TbWYV)
Post by: tomd2103 on April 03, 2020, 01:01:36 AM
I don't think they'll accept that it will be cancelled. They seem determined to ignore common sense and have players playing somehow.
Not that it means much in the grand scheme of things, but heard Jeff Stelling on some radio show on the way home and he was saying that it should be cancelled and decided on some kind of points / games played coefficient.
As I say, might just be his own views, but interesting that one of the main faces of football on SKY now talking about cancellation.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 03, 2020, 01:15:26 AM
Post by: sid1964 on April 03, 2020, 06:23:27 AM
Also how long would it take before it came to court - clever lawyers could drag this out for a year +
Post by: London Villan on April 03, 2020, 06:44:50 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 03, 2020, 07:02:23 AM
Post by: Richard E on April 03, 2020, 07:40:28 AM
Can’t players be furloughed?
There’s no legal reason why not, but any Premier League club that did it would get slaughtered and as the maximum they could claim from the Government would be £2500 per month per player you’d assume they wouldn’t think it was worth the resulting opprobrium. I may be overestimating their morals and/or brains.
Post by: frank black on April 03, 2020, 07:54:42 AM
Post by: aev on April 03, 2020, 08:12:17 AM
It looks like they may accept the inevitable tomorrow.
I think they will drag it out for a bit longer yet.
Post by: Mister E on April 03, 2020, 08:48:02 AM
I wonder what impact all this will have upon transfer fees in the summer? Holding onto you best players for one more season, in the hope things get better or sell because you’ve really go to I guess. If financially sound (whatever that is) coming out out of this, you’re going to have a big advantage.One way of dealing with the premature ending of this season may be to suspend the transfer window in the summer, to try and maintain the same competitive dynamic that existed pre-virus.
Post by: Jon Crofts on April 03, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
I wonder what impact all this will have upon transfer fees in the summer? Holding onto you best players for one more season, in the hope things get better or sell because you’ve really go to I guess. If financially sound (whatever that is) coming out out of this, you’re going to have a big advantage.One way of dealing with the premature ending of this season may be to suspend the transfer window in the summer, to try and maintain the same competitive dynamic that existed pre-virus.
Not a chance of that happening.
Post by: Dave on April 03, 2020, 12:44:04 PM
I wonder what impact all this will have upon transfer fees in the summer? Holding onto you best players for one more season, in the hope things get better or sell because you’ve really go to I guess. If financially sound (whatever that is) coming out out of this, you’re going to have a big advantage.One way of dealing with the premature ending of this season may be to suspend the transfer window in the summer, to try and maintain the same competitive dynamic that existed pre-virus.
How would you deal with the thousands of players worldwide whose contracts would have expired?
Lots of lower league clubs only have players contracted for twelve months at a time.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 03, 2020, 12:53:25 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 03, 2020, 01:38:18 PM
Can’t players be furloughed?They could if you felt it right the govenment pay them them the equivalent of a £40k salary and you wanted to give them the opportunity of voiding their contracts and leaving on a free.
Post by: brian green on April 03, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 03, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
It looks like they may accept the inevitable tomorrow.
I think they will drag it out for a bit longer yet.
Really astonishing the FA haven't taken a very pragmatic view on this, for all kinds of reasons the season has to now end, one for absolute closure, its done, forget it, two, you have to consider the season stopped at a time when players where totally focused, at the very pinnacle of there powers and season, in order to best achieve certain targets, overnight that vanished and for a long time now they have been languishing around home, bit of lite training, then because the FA says so they have to start right back up at where they left of with so much is at stake, some players will manage that, most certainly won't, its completely unfair on teams that could expect to finish in the top 6, get relegated and other such targets that that now won't happen, or will in the case of relegation, we all know what most teams and players look like at the start of the season and how teams and players look, come March/April/May time, chalk and cheese.
If I was Dean Smith I would insist the squad gets a full pre-season, that's how crazy this is and how crucial.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 03, 2020, 02:08:17 PM
The financial issues of the pandemic are so huge that what happens to football clubs and football players is only a spit in the ocean. Any deal cobbled together while the disease rages will fall apart within days if not hours.
Exactly, another reason is they are now openly discussing a 2nd wave, in the US they are saying this will likely happen and the only way out of this is a vaccine.
Post by: olaftab on April 03, 2020, 02:10:41 PM
The financial issues of the pandemic are so huge that what happens to football clubs and football players is only a spit in the ocean. Any deal cobbled together while the disease rages will fall apart within days if not hours.Indeed. The so called £750M is nothing really as well. At worst it's £35M loss for every PL club and at best will be negotiated down and deducted from future payments.
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 03, 2020, 02:24:21 PM
It would be quite unfair to tell players whose contracts expire that they are not allowed to sign for another club. Perhaps a decent compromise between the PFA and the league would that players accept a 25% cut, but clubs carry on paying those whose contracts have expired until normality resumes.
Would clubs actually sign players if they know they weren't playing for months on end? See it all the time with players you could easily sign in May but clubs don't bother until late July so they can save a few months wages and that's knowing a season will start in 2-3 weeks.
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 03, 2020, 02:25:40 PM
It looks like they may accept the inevitable tomorrow.
I think they will drag it out for a bit longer yet.
Really astonishing the FA haven't taken a very pragmatic view on this, for all kinds of reasons the season has to now end, one for absolute closure, its done, forget it, two, you have to consider the season stopped at a time when players where totally focused, at the very pinnacle of there powers and season, in order to best achieve certain targets, overnight that vanished and for a long time now they have been languishing around home, bit of lite training, then because the FA says so they have to start right back up at where they left of with so much is at stake, some players will manage that, most certainly won't, its completely unfair on teams that could expect to finish in the top 6, get relegated and other such targets that that now won't happen, or will in the case of relegation, we all know what most teams and players look like at the start of the season and how teams and players look, come March/April/May time, chalk and cheese.
If I was Dean Smith I would insist the squad gets a full pre-season, that's how crazy this is and how crucial.
Premier league isn't going to be void anytime soon while there is (wildly optimistic talk) of restarting seasons in Germany and Italy within next 8 weeks.
Post by: Mister E on April 03, 2020, 02:36:24 PM
Quote
All 20 Premier League clubs will meet via video and it is accepted by all that there is no hope of professional games being played immediately after the current 30 April deadline.
The Premier League could shift the date back into May or opt to follow Spain and France, who have shut down their leagues for an indefinite period.
Italy have talked of Serie A returning in late May, but that seems optimistic.
European governing body Uefa has written a joint letter with the European Clubs' Association and the European Leagues urging domestic bodies not to abandon their competitions.
Leagues across Europe have been told that ending competitions early could result in them forfeiting Champions League and Europa League places.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 03, 2020, 02:43:48 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 03, 2020, 02:52:46 PM
I wonder what impact all this will have upon transfer fees in the summer? Holding onto you best players for one more season, in the hope things get better or sell because you’ve really go to I guess. If financially sound (whatever that is) coming out out of this, you’re going to have a big advantage.One way of dealing with the premature ending of this season may be to suspend the transfer window in the summer, to try and maintain the same competitive dynamic that existed pre-virus.
Not a chance of that happening.
Interesting. I guess each player would have to accept a year extension to their current contracts too.
I quite like the idea although that is mainly because I hate the circus that is the transfer window.
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 03, 2020, 02:52:51 PM
It could very easily just be this season's competition finishing off.
Post by: Drummond on April 03, 2020, 03:04:14 PM
Footballers do earn too much but this isn't their issue. We've seen from our own Tyrone Mings that footballers do good things with their money (as well as many idiots too of course).
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 03, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
The financial issues of the pandemic are so huge that what happens to football clubs and football players is only a spit in the ocean. Any deal cobbled together while the disease rages will fall apart within days if not hours.Indeed. The so called £750M is nothing really as well. At worst it's £35M loss for every PL club and at best will be negotiated down and deducted from future payments.
If they did kill it off, and promote Albion and Leeds, it would also make it easy for them to sweeten Sky by giving them more matches for their money next season.
Post by: steamer on April 03, 2020, 03:20:09 PM
Post by: Stu on April 03, 2020, 03:41:28 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 03, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
A bit like the cooks on the Titanic wondering if they should only serve a continental breakfast, it may not matter.
If true that is amazing. There is never a correct time to serve a continental breakfast.
Post by: Richard E on April 03, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
The financial issues of the pandemic are so huge that what happens to football clubs and football players is only a spit in the ocean. Any deal cobbled together while the disease rages will fall apart within days if not hours.Indeed. The so called £750M is nothing really as well. At worst it's £35M loss for every PL club and at best will be negotiated down and deducted from future payments.
If they did kill it off, and promote Albion and Leeds, it would also make it easy for them to sweeten Sky by giving them more matches for their money next season.
Yeah, but unfortunately for Sky those more matches will involve Albion and Leeds.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 03, 2020, 04:02:12 PM
It would be quite unfair to tell players whose contracts expire that they are not allowed to sign for another club. Perhaps a decent compromise between the PFA and the league would that players accept a 25% cut, but clubs carry on paying those whose contracts have expired until normality resumes.
Would clubs actually sign players if they know they weren't playing for months on end? See it all the time with players you could easily sign in May but clubs don't bother until late July so they can save a few months wages and that's knowing a season will start in 2-3 weeks.
Generally you can't sign anyone till 1st July, players are contracted to their previous club until 30th June. So they're not delaying signing players to save money, they're not allowed to get them any earlier.
In this case though, yes, clubs generally won't want to sign players when there is no immediate prospect of any games. That's why, if I was Gordon Taylor, I'd be trying to get some confirmation that out of contract players would still be looked after.
Post by: paul_e on April 03, 2020, 04:02:29 PM
That last line stinks!
Yeah, if they're not on it UEFA really need to go on the c**t list.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 03, 2020, 04:04:13 PM
The financial issues of the pandemic are so huge that what happens to football clubs and football players is only a spit in the ocean. Any deal cobbled together while the disease rages will fall apart within days if not hours.Indeed. The so called £750M is nothing really as well. At worst it's £35M loss for every PL club and at best will be negotiated down and deducted from future payments.
If they did kill it off, and promote Albion and Leeds, it would also make it easy for them to sweeten Sky by giving them more matches for their money next season.
Yeah, but unfortunately for Sky those more matches will involve Albion and Leeds.
Leeds could easily take 200,000 fans to each away game so I'm guessing they must have at least fourteen billion supporters worldwide. Bound to shift a few satellite dishes. All four West Brom fans will be rushing out to buy them, too. Just as soon as the Black Country gets electricity.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 03, 2020, 04:05:23 PM
Post by: olaftab on April 03, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
That last line stinks!UEFA need to have a reality check. If 3 or 4 other Countries, specially say the Germans and Spanish, follow the lead of Belgium UEFA competitions will be rendered useless. So they really should not forget their status. They exist because of national leagues not the other way round.
Post by: spangley1812 on April 03, 2020, 04:21:47 PM
Premier League clubs will ask players to take a 30% pay cut in order to protect jobs as it was announced the season will not resume until "it is safe and appropriate to do so".
All clubs have agreed to put the proposed "combination of conditional reductions and deferrals" to players.
The Premier League will give £125m to the EFL and National League, plus £20m to the NHS and vulnerable groups.
Clubs still intend on completing all league and cup fixtures.
The EFL, Women's Super League and Women's Championship have all suspended play without setting a target return date, meaning the entirety of English football is on hold indefinitely.
"Any return to play will only be with the full support of government and when medical guidance allows," the Premier League said.
"It was acknowledged that the Premier League will not resume at the beginning of May - and that the 2019-20 season will only return when it is safe and appropriate to do so."
Players had faced scrutiny, notably from health secretary Matt Hancock, to take a cut in wages and "play their part" in offering support during the coronavirus pandemic.
Some clubs had furloughed non-playing staff as a result of the shutdown of the sport.
Captains of the clubs - led by Liverpool skipper Jordan Henderson - have held discussions over the creation of a charitable fund which would likely benefit the NHS.
After Friday's meeting, the Premier League has proposed a cut in wages in order to "protect employment throughout the professional game".
"This guidance will be kept under constant review as circumstances change," the Premier League said. "The League will be in regular contact with the Professional Footballers' Association and the union will join a meeting which will be held tomorrow (Saturday) between the League, players and club representatives."
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 03, 2020, 04:39:16 PM
Just an observation on the players taking a pay cut thing. If they did that, the owners would be the ones making money. The owners of clubs are the real rich ones. Which is why Spurs and others Furloughing staff is such a fucking disgrace.
Footballers do earn too much but this isn't their issue. We've seen from our own Tyrone Mings that footballers do good things with their money (as well as many idiots too of course).
Kinda where I'm at.
Admittedly I have no idea how clubs arrange the management of the financing of individual parts of their own operations, but I'd not be surprised to find that things like hospitality, catering, grounds keeping and maintenance, ticket office, stewards, pretty much all non-playing ancillary staff are paid through an offshoot or whatever that is funded solely by what comes through the turnstiles.
Telly and sponsors money will go on the players.
And aren't all owners generally rich individuals who've decided they no longer want to be so bought a football club?
All clubs operate to a cliff edge, the persistent levels of debt are testament to that, but they'll have a budget and they'll make sure they spend it. As supporters we'd be annoyed if they didn't. Them seeming to be awash with cash thanks to the very overt way tv and sponsorship deals are trumpeted is something they'll need to work against incredibly hard to convince the public otherwise.
I'd like to see and hear of players doing things off their own bat, tbh.
Post by: Villan82 on April 03, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
Just draw a damned line under this season. Give Liverpool the title and have no relegation. The idea that this season must be finished no matter what is absurd.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 03, 2020, 05:58:52 PM
Just an observation on the players taking a pay cut thing. If they did that, the owners would be the ones making money. The owners of clubs are the real rich ones. Which is why Spurs and others Furloughing staff is such a fucking disgrace.Not many owners make money owning football clubs, they often put up huge amounts of their own capital which could often provide greater returns from other enterprise.
Footballers do earn too much but this isn't their issue. We've seen from our own Tyrone Mings that footballers do good things with their money (as well as many idiots too of course).
The main beneficiaries of the money that has poured into Football are the top professional players. Look at the accounts of the top 30 clubs and up to 85% of total revenue is paid out in players wages.
So players should be the first people to contribute.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 03, 2020, 06:04:00 PM
Post by: wittonwarrior on April 03, 2020, 08:39:14 PM
Post by: Legion on April 03, 2020, 08:42:27 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 03, 2020, 08:49:40 PM
Personally, I would have rather seen it played out to a conclusion. However, as things stand it should be voided. Award Liverpool the title to shut them up and start again in 2020-21 with the fixtures as they were for 2019-20.
The longer the gap the less legitimate it becomes to carry on. Add in neutral venues , no VAR , 5 Subs , weaked teams , allowed to play youth team and no fans ..it's a shambles
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 03, 2020, 08:58:51 PM
Why can’t we just be honest and say we are in the shit, the world, the villa We all secretly want the season to be voided. No shame in saying it.
Fully on board with this, no shame whatsoever in admitting the fact that if Villa can gain an advantage by staying up, fine, but the fact is Villa could well have survived, hard as that is to believe it could have happened, the season should be over, if for nothing else then for the enormity and overwhelming reality of what we face, for the fact that the NHS and the country in the last 24 hours, have lost 2 beautiful nurses to this insidious disease, heroes one and all and football needs to remember its place in the world because as far as I can see its got way above its station in life, it needs to be very careful becuase when this is said and done, this planet will be in the most severe depression since the thirties, football as with all sport will need all its supporters to stay afloat.
Post by: Legion on April 03, 2020, 09:48:53 PM
Quote
However, Aston Villa, 19th in the Premier League, two points from safety with a game in hand, could argue that denying them the chance to play that extra match was effectively relegating them.
They could also point out that, with six of their remaining 10 games to be played at Villa Park, they fancied their chances of getting out of trouble.
Post by: Dinas_Caerdydd on April 03, 2020, 10:02:55 PM
start the season again in late August / September providing this virus is under control with the current sides in all divisions
Post by: colin69 on April 03, 2020, 10:08:15 PM
I just cannot see this season being completed or football restarting for quite sometime.
There are far more serious things to worry about.
Post by: Dinas_Caerdydd on April 03, 2020, 10:11:28 PM
human life is far more important than kicking a ball about at the minute
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 03, 2020, 11:21:23 PM
same as me colin69
human life is far more important than kicking a ball about at the minute
Goodness me Dinas, your couldn't be more right if you tried, we need to be grounded on this and its fantastic on a Villa forum that we see people speaking like this, football is an entertainment and that's all it is in the scheme of things, as I type this there are NHS workers doing there very very very upmost trying to keep people alive, FA, f*** off and grow up and get some.
Post by: Brassneck on April 03, 2020, 11:24:33 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52148768QuoteHowever, Aston Villa, 19th in the Premier League, two points from safety with a game in hand, could argue that denying them the chance to play that extra match was effectively relegating them.
They could also point out that, with six of their remaining 10 games to be played at Villa Park, they fancied their chances of getting out of trouble.
Being the saddo that I am, I averaged out each teams points on a home and away basis. Ours was fractionally higher than most, if not all of the others but it still wouldn't have been enough to claw ourselves out of the bottom 3. Watford's was the worst but even with the extra home games, we wouldn't (by averaging points) bridge the 2 point gap that exists.
Naturally, I am a strong advocate to void the league with no averaging of points from games played.
EDIT* Just to add to this, I think we'd end up in the bottom 3 by less than 1 point. You shouldn't be able to relegate a team by 0. something of a point.
Post by: Brassneck on April 03, 2020, 11:29:36 PM
Personally, I would have rather seen it played out to a conclusion. However, as things stand it should be voided. Award Liverpool the title to shut them up and start again in 2020-21 with the fixtures as they were for 2019-20.
The longer the gap the less legitimate it becomes to carry on. Add in neutral venues , no VAR , 5 Subs , weaked teams , allowed to play youth team and no fans ..it's a shambles
100% spot on - It cannot possibly be played out as a season if it goes on beyond the parameters of a season.
Teams have prepared differently and those who were better prepared for the 2nd half/ run in will be unduly penalised.
Playing at neutral venues/behind closed doors also disadvantages those with extra home games (we have 2 more than some).
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 03, 2020, 11:43:56 PM
There will not be large gatherings of people for some time So they are going to have to rethink the future calendar from some point in the future.
Post by: Damo70 on April 03, 2020, 11:58:28 PM
Post by: colin69 on April 04, 2020, 12:20:09 AM
I think we have now gone way past any chance of this season being resurrected. We just need to start afresh at some point in the future. Hopefully August but who knows at this point. Having looked at the current league tables for the first time in ages it would be quite harsh on Leeds, Albion and Coventry but with 27 points still to play for in the EFL the only team to really lose out would be Liverpool.
Liverpool deserve to win the league (whatever we think of them) i couldn’t give a flying fuck what happens to anyone else......including Villa.
Post by: OzVilla on April 04, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
Which makes me even more pissed of with Smith and the team for those 3 utterly insipid performances in 3 of our last 4 league games. Anything in them and we’d have nothing to worry about.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 04, 2020, 03:51:29 AM
I think we have now gone way past any chance of this season being resurrected. We just need to start afresh at some point in the future. Hopefully August but who knows at this point. Having looked at the current league tables for the first time in ages it would be quite harsh on Leeds, Albion and Coventry but with 27 points still to play for in the EFL the only team to really lose out would be Liverpool.
Liverpool deserve to win the league (whatever we think of them) i couldn’t give a flying fuck what happens to anyone else......including Villa.
Deserve? Nope. Not for me, the season hasn't been completed.
Post by: mr underhill on April 04, 2020, 06:54:03 AM
Post by: brian green on April 04, 2020, 07:10:47 AM
Post by: Villafirst on April 04, 2020, 07:39:40 AM
Post by: Richard E on April 04, 2020, 07:50:17 AM
Post by: Nev on April 04, 2020, 07:57:49 AM
What Football has shown once again is the juvenile, illogical refusal to accept what is inevitable, the inability to take it on board and move on.
Such an attitude lead to VAR and look what happened there.....
Post by: brian green on April 04, 2020, 08:09:16 AM
Post by: aev on April 04, 2020, 09:11:38 AM
Post by: clash city rocker on April 04, 2020, 09:32:14 AM
The whole thing is simply being dictated to by money, which is pretty distasteful with everything going on around us.
Come the eventually restart how much money will there be. Will sky still put as much in ? Will sponsors cut back dramatically? Corporate entertaing, will companies cut back on that ?
Post by: aev on April 04, 2020, 09:47:17 AM
In a joint letter sent on Thursday night to Europe’s national FAs, leagues and top-division clubs, the Uefa president, Aleksander Ceferin, the chairman of the European Club Association, Andrea Agnelli, and Lars-Christer Olsson, the president of European Leagues, maintained that remaining club matches in national leagues and the Champions and Europa Leagues could be completed by playing into July and August. However they acknowledged the scale of the crisis means they do not expect to have a clear idea of how that may be done until mid-May at the earliest.“
From David Conn.
Post by: Ads on April 04, 2020, 09:54:16 AM
Post by: aev on April 04, 2020, 09:57:52 AM
And if the top clubs decide to sell their rights and form a new competition?
Well a super league has been mooted for so long maybe this external shock will be the impetus for it. I assume however that their are contracts in place that need to be honoured?
Post by: Stu on April 04, 2020, 10:04:48 AM
And if the top clubs decide to sell their rights and form a new competition?
I'd like this.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 04, 2020, 10:55:43 AM
The whole thing is simply being dictated to by money, which is pretty distasteful with everything going on around us.
Agree in fact its downright ugly, in fact I've read something this morning that's completely blown my mind, from a bloke called 'Graham Medley' for the Times, an apparent expert in infectious diseases, he's calling on the government to change course, change there strategy and to look again at the concept of 'herd immunity', to drop all restrictions, everything, re start everything and allow people to get infected as much as possible so we over time develop a complete natural immunity to this horrible virus.
Can't believe this guy, he's recommending this on the basis that the economy is breaking, people are running out of money and poverty will become rampant very soon, other side issues like mental health problems etc.
Money money money, the guy is an idiot, millions will die before you have sufficient people or hosts that will develop this immunity, basically what he is saying is we should wheedle out the weak let them die, reduce the population significantly and we end up with a virus that's harmless, what he's not saying is how long this will take to happen, the fact it will ravage all families, talk about damaging mental health and just how disgusting this will be for everybody watching relatives and friends driving of to hospitals unwell, 48 hours later getting a phone call to say the hospital is turning off the vent's to let them die, you never see then again.
The point is, the powers that 'Be' are now realising that the economy will be in such a state it will probably never recover for a generation if ever, my point is when we make decision about money over people lives we are way deeper in the shit than any virus can cause, but at least the FA would get there way, the season would restart, without question.
Post by: Damo70 on April 04, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
“Uefa, Europe’s football leagues and top clubs have emphasised their determination to complete the 2019-20 season despite the coronavirus shutdown, with Uefa saying it may not accept clubs into next season’s Champions League if they have not qualified in the normal way.
In a joint letter sent on Thursday night to Europe’s national FAs, leagues and top-division clubs, the Uefa president, Aleksander Ceferin, the chairman of the European Club Association, Andrea Agnelli, and Lars-Christer Olsson, the president of European Leagues, maintained that remaining club matches in national leagues and the Champions and Europa Leagues could be completed by playing into July and August. However they acknowledged the scale of the crisis means they do not expect to have a clear idea of how that may be done until mid-May at the earliest.“
From David Conn.
To be fair that is the exact immoral stance I would expect from UEFA.
Post by: amfy on April 04, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
Fifa John McGinn < Real John McGinn.
Post by: Richard E on April 04, 2020, 01:05:01 PM
Just lost 5-3 to Wolves with Konsa playing Jota on AVTV fifa.
Fifa John McGinn < Real John McGinn.
Smith out!!!!
Post by: clash city rocker on April 04, 2020, 02:58:17 PM
Just lost 5-3 to Wolves with Konsa playing Jota on AVTV fifa.
Fifa John McGinn < Real John McGinn.
Our defending hasn't changed then.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 04, 2020, 03:03:37 PM
“Uefa, Europe’s football leagues and top clubs have emphasised their determination to complete the 2019-20 season despite the coronavirus shutdown, with Uefa saying it may not accept clubs into next season’s Champions League if they have not qualified in the normal way.
In a joint letter sent on Thursday night to Europe’s national FAs, leagues and top-division clubs, the Uefa president, Aleksander Ceferin, the chairman of the European Club Association, Andrea Agnelli, and Lars-Christer Olsson, the president of European Leagues, maintained that remaining club matches in national leagues and the Champions and Europa Leagues could be completed by playing into July and August. However they acknowledged the scale of the crisis means they do not expect to have a clear idea of how that may be done until mid-May at the earliest.“
From David Conn.
To be fair that is the exact immoral stance I would expect from UEFA.
It really is pretty fucking disgusting.
These people care about nothing but money.
Post by: Brassneck on April 04, 2020, 04:48:28 PM
“Uefa, Europe’s football leagues and top clubs have emphasised their determination to complete the 2019-20 season despite the coronavirus shutdown, with Uefa saying it may not accept clubs into next season’s Champions League if they have not qualified in the normal way.
In a joint letter sent on Thursday night to Europe’s national FAs, leagues and top-division clubs, the Uefa president, Aleksander Ceferin, the chairman of the European Club Association, Andrea Agnelli, and Lars-Christer Olsson, the president of European Leagues, maintained that remaining club matches in national leagues and the Champions and Europa Leagues could be completed by playing into July and August. However they acknowledged the scale of the crisis means they do not expect to have a clear idea of how that may be done until mid-May at the earliest.“
From David Conn.
To be fair that is the exact immoral stance I would expect from UEFA.
It really is pretty fucking disgusting.
These people care about nothing but money.
I'm sort of on the fence with it.
The money pumped in during the season enables clubs to run for the whole year round.
I get that if there is a chance to complete the season, most will want to do so. Burnley announced today that they stand to lose £50 million if the season is voided. It's probably money they don't have. We would probably lose more.
For me, I accept that the leagues should aim to finish if possible (not at all costs or in a way to place anyone in danger). We are very much in the unknown. We don't know how long lock down or bans on public gatherings will last. I have no issue with them keeping on postponing a decision. I do think that as each day passes, it is less and less likely that the season can be completed.
I wonder whether lifting the ban on 3pm televised games has been introduced in case they can get some kind of behind closed doors system in place? Again, I have no problem with this as long as it is safe. It would not be possible to relegate teams though - How could they when we would be deprived of 6 home games compared to some teams 4?
Post by: paul_e on April 04, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
“Uefa, Europe’s football leagues and top clubs have emphasised their determination to complete the 2019-20 season despite the coronavirus shutdown, with Uefa saying it may not accept clubs into next season’s Champions League if they have not qualified in the normal way.
In a joint letter sent on Thursday night to Europe’s national FAs, leagues and top-division clubs, the Uefa president, Aleksander Ceferin, the chairman of the European Club Association, Andrea Agnelli, and Lars-Christer Olsson, the president of European Leagues, maintained that remaining club matches in national leagues and the Champions and Europa Leagues could be completed by playing into July and August. However they acknowledged the scale of the crisis means they do not expect to have a clear idea of how that may be done until mid-May at the earliest.“
From David Conn.
To be fair that is the exact immoral stance I would expect from UEFA.
It really is pretty fucking disgusting.
These people care about nothing but money.
I'm sort of on the fence with it.
The money pumped in during the season enables clubs to run for the whole year round.
I get that if there is a chance to complete the season, most will want to do so. Burnley announced today that they stand to lose £50 million if the season is voided. It's probably money they don't have. We would probably lose more.
For me, I accept that the leagues should aim to finish if possible (not at all costs or in a way to place anyone in danger). We are very much in the unknown. We don't know how long lock down or bans on public gatherings will last. I have no issue with them keeping on postponing a decision. I do think that as each day passes, it is less and less likely that the season can be completed.
I wonder whether lifting the ban on 3pm televised games has been introduced in case they can get some kind of behind closed doors system in place? Again, I have no problem with this as long as it is safe. It would not be possible to relegate teams though - How could they when we would be deprived of 6 home games compared to some teams 4?
I don't disagree other than UEFA overstepped with the threat to remove teams from the european competitions. There was no need for that and all it really achieves is to encourage leagues to start up again quicker to ensure they keep their seat at the table, it's utterly irresponsible.
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 04, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Knowing they are morally bankrupt is nothing new.
Post by: aev on April 04, 2020, 06:01:17 PM
Post by: Legion on April 04, 2020, 06:20:36 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2020, 06:24:20 PM
The bottom line is ,the money to keep paying the players does not exist.
Post by: andyh on April 04, 2020, 06:43:38 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2020, 07:04:20 PM
Proof positive it’s ONLY about the money.I think that position was reached a long time ago.
When the FA sold its soul to the Preeeeeeemiership and UEFA it’s integrity to the highest bidder. Then there is FIFA.
Post by: aev on April 04, 2020, 07:28:37 PM
I think the last paragraph about deferrals rather than cuts speak volumes.
The bottom line is ,the money to keep paying the players does not exist.
Deferrals, yeah why not. Fk it, the rest of the economy is falling apart but as long as we are ok....
Post by: aj2k77 on April 04, 2020, 08:08:46 PM
Post by: Villan82 on April 04, 2020, 08:29:08 PM
If the wages are deferred, staff put on furlough and then they try and carry on like nothing has happened then that would be the last football I'll watch. Families are losing loved ones. Families are losing jobs. All on a mass scale. Footballers wan't to claw back their sickening wages as soon as possible.
I am so disgusted by the behaviour of football -governing bodies, clubs, players, and above all SKY - in this human catastrophe that I haven't been able to bring myself to even watch old games these past few days where I have been in isolation.
They have shot themselves in the foot. Season should have been voided, the players should have been giving something back from their astronomical fortunes. End of.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 04, 2020, 08:43:29 PM
Post by: aev on April 04, 2020, 08:56:27 PM
It is farcical on so many levels.
Post by: Damo70 on April 04, 2020, 08:57:53 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 04, 2020, 09:16:54 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on April 04, 2020, 11:32:43 PM
The point was that say the end of the season could be played out in September and early October. Rest of October and November off and the 20/21 season starts in December and runs to end of August. Euros take place at end of September / October 2021 and 21/22 season starts again in December 21 running through to September / October 22 and then the World Cup takes place in December that year with a view to the next season then starting in August 23 as usual.
A lot of upheaval, but the biggest issue I see there is you would need something to at least the April after the World Cup.
Post by: eamonn on April 04, 2020, 11:45:11 PM
Post by: brentastonb6 on April 05, 2020, 12:22:01 AM
Post by: adrenachrome on April 05, 2020, 03:37:30 AM
Quote
come out ye melts and bams Retweeted
Ruairi McGhabainn@Rorie_82·
8h
James McClean has now donated more to the NHS than the queen and all her family. Yet all you will hear on the news is that he refuses to wear a poppy.
Post by: algy on April 05, 2020, 09:18:30 AM
Sure it has been mentioned in the thread already, but was reading something earlier today questioning whether the timing of the 2022 World Cup might be a factor in all of this.Another thing is that we don't know how it'll pan out, but it was reported that the seasonality the virus could be between a common cold & flu. If that's the case, there may be a lull around August-October then the virus come back for the next winter.
The point was that say the end of the season could be played out in September and early October. Rest of October and November off and the 20/21 season starts in December and runs to end of August. Euros take place at end of September / October 2021 and 21/22 season starts again in December 21 running through to September / October 22 and then the World Cup takes place in December that year with a view to the next season then starting in August 23 as usual.
A lot of upheaval, but the biggest issue I see there is you would need something to at least the April after the World Cup.
If it turns out to be that, the most sensible course of action may well be to abandon the 2020/21 season, and just try to finish this season in late 2020.
Post by: Brassneck on April 05, 2020, 09:20:28 AM
Quote
come out ye melts and bams Retweeted
Ruairi McGhabainn@Rorie_82·
8h
James McClean has now donated more to the NHS than the queen and all her family. Yet all you will hear on the news is that he refuses to wear a poppy.
Plus he teaches his kids how to be terrorists.
Post by: Brassneck on April 05, 2020, 09:51:13 AM
14
70% over 2/3
Depending on what vote is.
This will be a different kind of vote though. It HAS to be decided. It isn't like a normal resolution that either succeeds or fails. This decision has to be determined. I wonder what would happen if the vote was 12-8 or 11-9?
For me, the ability to play next season is key. If that looks like it can go ahead, most clubs would be in favour of that instead of playing out this season.
As it stands, you would think that some kind of mini pre-season would be required in order to get teams up to speed again and then around 6 weeks to complete the season. If that can't be done by the end of July, I don't see any other option other than to void the league.
Obviously, if we complete the leagues, the FA Cup and European competitions would also need to be completed.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 05, 2020, 10:04:54 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 05, 2020, 10:32:52 AM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 05, 2020, 10:33:51 AM
Sure it has been mentioned in the thread already, but was reading something earlier today questioning whether the timing of the 2022 World Cup might be a factor in all of this.Another thing is that we don't know how it'll pan out, but it was reported that the seasonality the virus could be between a common cold & flu. If that's the case, there may be a lull around August-October then the virus come back for the next winter.
The point was that say the end of the season could be played out in September and early October. Rest of October and November off and the 20/21 season starts in December and runs to end of August. Euros take place at end of September / October 2021 and 21/22 season starts again in December 21 running through to September / October 22 and then the World Cup takes place in December that year with a view to the next season then starting in August 23 as usual.
A lot of upheaval, but the biggest issue I see there is you would need something to at least the April after the World Cup.
If it turns out to be that, the most sensible course of action may well be to abandon the 2020/21 season, and just try to finish this season in late 2020.
I heard something similar just more serious, that is, as the weather warms up we could see a lull around June/July/Aug time, they then fully expect a second wave to start around the same time as you would expect the Flu season to start, so, November, they know this virus has the capability to mutate, so it could become less lethal or indeed more lethal, either way the important thing here is the definition in this case of what they mean by lull, so if during the quiet period it still goes on infecting and killing at 10% of the rate its killing at the moment, that is still horrendous, plus what a winter we have to look forward to.
Trump made it clear yesterday in his daily update that he wants America out of lock down at some point very soon, the suggestion was for America to carry on like this would floor the economy, 30% unemployed, probably resulting in more deaths than the virus itself would do, because of the amount of poverty it would cause, any way you look at it its horrendous, we need a vaccine and quick.
Post by: tomd2103 on April 05, 2020, 10:57:47 AM
Sure it has been mentioned in the thread already, but was reading something earlier today questioning whether the timing of the 2022 World Cup might be a factor in all of this.Another thing is that we don't know how it'll pan out, but it was reported that the seasonality the virus could be between a common cold & flu. If that's the case, there may be a lull around August-October then the virus come back for the next winter.
The point was that say the end of the season could be played out in September and early October. Rest of October and November off and the 20/21 season starts in December and runs to end of August. Euros take place at end of September / October 2021 and 21/22 season starts again in December 21 running through to September / October 22 and then the World Cup takes place in December that year with a view to the next season then starting in August 23 as usual.
A lot of upheaval, but the biggest issue I see there is you would need something to at least the April after the World Cup.
If it turns out to be that, the most sensible course of action may well be to abandon the 2020/21 season, and just try to finish this season in late 2020.
Agree and to be honest, when the football season starts and ends is not of any real importance at this point. I do think, however, the timing of the 2022 World Cup does give some flexibility and different options.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 05, 2020, 11:33:36 AM
that fuckwad Taylor's hung on to the gravy train longer than Corbyn - i thought he was supposed to retire a year ago?
The highest paid union leader in the world.
Post by: saunders_heroes on April 05, 2020, 11:54:17 AM
Quote
come out ye melts and bams Retweeted
Ruairi McGhabainn@Rorie_82·
8h
James McClean has now donated more to the NHS than the queen and all her family. Yet all you will hear on the news is that he refuses to wear a poppy.
Plus he teaches his kids how to be terrorists.
Yawn.
Post by: TopDeck113 on April 05, 2020, 12:11:51 PM
I love the un-ironic way the PFA is defending no pay cuts because of the loss of Money to the NHS at this time.
Can he put it on the side of the open top bus to be used for the victory parade around the empty streets of Liverpool?
Post by: eamonn on April 05, 2020, 12:18:35 PM
Post by: Ads on April 05, 2020, 03:41:19 PM
Post by: Simon Page on April 05, 2020, 04:01:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on April 05, 2020, 04:49:38 PM
Smeone needs to tell you about millions being laid off and furloughed at 80% and many many self employed with no earnings at all coming in.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 05, 2020, 07:56:38 PM
Oh dear Wayne....
Smeone needs to tell you about millions being laid off and furloughed at 80% and many many self employed with no earnings at all coming in.
What he needs to understand also is that these millions now laid off, earning no money, could well find in the new order when this virus has passed, the economy is knackered, millions with no money, therefore millions less Sky TV football packages no BT football packages and I very much doubt that season tickets will be a priority over feeding a family, in short no money going into football, the future isn't looking good for millions of people and that will have a knock on effect for football. it needs to show some humility, pretty damn fast.
Post by: Ad@m on April 05, 2020, 08:00:22 PM
Oh dear Wayne....
Smeone needs to tell you about millions being laid off and furloughed at 80% and many many self employed with no earnings at all coming in.
Where are all these people? Furloughing war introduced to stop millions being laid off, and seems to be working very well in that regard, and 95% of self employed people are being given up to £2,500 a month free money whether they're earning or not.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 05, 2020, 08:11:50 PM
Oh dear Wayne....
Smeone needs to tell you about millions being laid off and furloughed at 80% and many many self employed with no earnings at all coming in.
Where are all these people? Furloughing war introduced to stop millions being laid off, and seems to be working very well in that regard, and 95% of self employed people are being given up to £2,500 a month free money whether they're earning or not.
There is no way in a million years this country can carry on financing a huge amount of population's income for anything more than a very short period of time, regardless of whatever money people are getting of the state, self employed or otherwise if they are not out there earning they are effectively laid off.
Post by: Richard E on April 05, 2020, 08:16:17 PM
Post by: Ad@m on April 05, 2020, 09:22:08 PM
Furlough is to all intents and purposes lay off, but you get 80% of your salary paid by the government rather than 5 days of rubbish Guarantee Payments.
And you walk straight back in to your job at the end of it.
So not at all like being laid off.
Post by: Richard E on April 05, 2020, 09:23:08 PM
Post by: Ad@m on April 05, 2020, 09:38:27 PM
Laid off doesn’t mean being dismissed. It means being temporarily sent home due to lack of work.
It does in my neck of the woods.
Having done a quick Google, turns out it's now used in both cases (if you believe Wikipedia).
Post by: Legion on April 05, 2020, 09:42:15 PM
Post by: Richard E on April 05, 2020, 09:44:19 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 05, 2020, 11:09:24 PM
Furlough is to all intents and purposes lay off, but you get 80% of your salary paid by the government rather than 5 days of rubbish Guarantee Payments.
And you walk straight back in to your job at the end of it.
So not at all like being laid off.
If your job is still there, which is far from given.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 05, 2020, 11:40:16 PM
Furlough is to all intents and purposes lay off, but you get 80% of your salary paid by the government rather than 5 days of rubbish Guarantee Payments.
And you walk straight back in to your job at the end of it.
So not at all like being laid off.
If your job is still there, which is far from given.
Very true.
The price we pay further down the line will be enormous.
Not that I'm criticising it. It's necessary.
Post by: sid1964 on April 06, 2020, 06:37:14 AM
The number of people in the UK that are now paying tax on 80% or £2500 per month - the loss of tax on their normal earnings prior to being put on furlough leave is billions
Don't worry the premier league footballers will have there pay deferred unlike the rest of the nation who will just be glad to go back to their job, when they are allowed to.
Post by: Ad@m on April 06, 2020, 06:43:52 AM
Obviously their primary concern is to their members - they're a union after all. But any pay cut just results in the UK government and the players paying money back to the clubs. What that's got to do with Matt Hancock I don't know.
The only way a pay cut makes sense, is if it's linked to a commitment from the clubs involved that they won't use the furlough scheme.
The other issue here is FFP. If clubs just carry on paying everyone in full with zero income coming in, even if the owners pay for it all, you'll see more potential breaches of FFP unless they change the rules.
Post by: aev on April 06, 2020, 07:54:51 AM
I kind of get the PFA's angle though.
Obviously their primary concern is to their members - they're a union after all. But any pay cut just results in the UK government and the players paying money back to the clubs. What that's got to do with Matt Hancock I don't know.
The only way a pay cut makes sense, is if it's linked to a commitment from the clubs involved that they won't use the furlough scheme.
The other issue here is FFP. If clubs just carry on paying everyone in full with zero income coming in, even if the owners pay for it all, you'll see more potential breaches of FFP unless they change the rules.
Whichever way you cut it, it comes down to money and the clubs seem petrified the gravy train may be slowed down.
All of this is of course very different to the “integrity” of ensuring a season is completed.
Post by: sid1964 on April 06, 2020, 08:46:27 AM
Reading yesterday that Burnley are going to run out of cash in August - they could have to make the furlough decision for their players, I don't see why any footballer should be treated differently to any guy or woman who goes to work.
Post by: mr underhill on April 06, 2020, 09:02:02 AM
Post by: eamonn on April 06, 2020, 09:16:57 AM
I believe Richard E.
He's a lawyer. We're led to.
Post by: in exile on April 06, 2020, 09:17:53 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 06, 2020, 09:48:53 AM
FFP will become irrelevant, it will be about survival unless the clubs owners are prepared / able to finance massive losses.
The most significant outflow and the major cause of the Loss is player wages, the next is payment of transfer fees.
As I said before, at some point the PFA will have to realize that the money to pay the players wages does not exist.
Post by: Risso on April 06, 2020, 09:56:06 AM
I kind of get the PFA's angle though.
Obviously their primary concern is to their members - they're a union after all. But any pay cut just results in the UK government and the players paying money back to the clubs. What that's got to do with Matt Hancock I don't know.
The only way a pay cut makes sense, is if it's linked to a commitment from the clubs involved that they won't use the furlough scheme.
The other issue here is FFP. If clubs just carry on paying everyone in full with zero income coming in, even if the owners pay for it all, you'll see more potential breaches of FFP unless they change the rules.
They'll have to change the rules. This is going to affect every single club in the country.
Post by: LeeB on April 06, 2020, 10:05:59 AM
Not been at all well so not been checking on news etc...didn't know that about Burnley
We should take the opportunity to bring Ashley back home.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 06, 2020, 10:08:06 AM
Burnley will not be the only ones, if clubs have no revenue how can the pay player wages?
FFP will become irrelevant, it will be about survival unless the clubs owners are prepared / able to finance massive losses.
The most significant outflow and the major cause of the Loss is player wages, the next is payment of transfer fees.
As I said before, at some point the PFA will have to realize that the money to pay the players wages does not exist.
Exactly right, as time passes, less and less money, its a kind of mini economy, same with the economy as a whole, with so many laid off, government covering peoples wages, can't be done forever, its not a bottomless pit, club owners will only keep financing this if they feel there is an end in sight.
Smaller clubs, even in the Premiership could just fall away as a kind of natural process.
Post by: Dominic22 on April 06, 2020, 11:17:52 AM
I will be out for good if this is rushed through with all the suffering that is happening. A June return after no games or training for 2 months means they will have to be training in early May at the latest and I suspect they will want all the games complete within 4 weeks. All these arguments about games every few days does not create a good product is now out the window it seems.
All clubs have to be careful as if someone like me who has spent most of his life following the club up and down the country can question going again I suspect there are those less committed who will put up with less.
Post by: TopDeck113 on April 06, 2020, 11:36:19 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 06, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
Reading the news this morning, the PR machine is starting work to sell an early June return with behind closed doors games. Wait for the in the national good planted articles coming to a site near you soon...
I will be out for good if this is rushed through with all the suffering that is happening. A June return after no games or training for 2 months means they will have to be training in early May at the latest and I suspect they will want all the games complete within 4 weeks. All these arguments about games every few days does not create a good product is now out the window it seems.
All clubs have to be careful as if someone like me who has spent most of his life following the club up and down the country can question going again I suspect there are those less committed who will put up with less.
That's where I'm at.
Post by: aev on April 06, 2020, 12:00:03 PM
Reading the news this morning, the PR machine is starting work to sell an early June return with behind closed doors games. Wait for the in the national good planted articles coming to a site near you soon...
I will be out for good if this is rushed through with all the suffering that is happening. A June return after no games or training for 2 months means they will have to be training in early May at the latest and I suspect they will want all the games complete within 4 weeks. All these arguments about games every few days does not create a good product is now out the window it seems.
All clubs have to be careful as if someone like me who has spent most of his life following the club up and down the country can question going again I suspect there are those less committed who will put up with less.
That's where I'm at.
Me too.
“FIFA will confirm an indefinite extension to the 2019/20 season. The dates of the summer transfer window will be altered and permission to extend player contracts which expiring on June 30 will be given.” [the athletic]
Post by: Dick Edwards on April 06, 2020, 12:04:51 PM
Post by: Towser on April 06, 2020, 12:04:59 PM
Reading the news this morning, the PR machine is starting work to sell an early June return with behind closed doors games. Wait for the in the national good planted articles coming to a site near you soon...Me too, in fact Villa can keep the cash from my season ticket for games played behind closed doors and put it in a pot towards the non playing staff wages.
I will be out for good if this is rushed through with all the suffering that is happening. A June return after no games or training for 2 months means they will have to be training in early May at the latest and I suspect they will want all the games complete within 4 weeks. All these arguments about games every few days does not create a good product is now out the window it seems.
All clubs have to be careful as if someone like me who has spent most of his life following the club up and down the country can question going again I suspect there are those less committed who will put up with less.
Post by: Ad@m on April 06, 2020, 12:23:21 PM
I kind of get the PFA's angle though.
Obviously their primary concern is to their members - they're a union after all. But any pay cut just results in the UK government and the players paying money back to the clubs. What that's got to do with Matt Hancock I don't know.
The only way a pay cut makes sense, is if it's linked to a commitment from the clubs involved that they won't use the furlough scheme.
The other issue here is FFP. If clubs just carry on paying everyone in full with zero income coming in, even if the owners pay for it all, you'll see more potential breaches of FFP unless they change the rules.
They'll have to change the rules. This is going to affect every single club in the country.
You'd hope so wouldn't you.
But I'm way past the point where I'm surprised at the stupidity of decisions the football authorities make. Especially when the only clubs who might not have an FFP issue with this are the ones FFP was invented to protect.
Post by: andyh on April 06, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
To my reckoning, this option still includes:-
2 squads of at least 20 players each.
Managers and coaches
Medical staff.
Match officials
Premier league officials
Stadium staff - obviously a reduced number but some required all the same.
Ground staff.
TV technicans
Cameramen
Commentators
Emergency services ?
Then there is the travel that all these people need to carry out.
I reckon that could be at least 100 - 150 people to put on a behind closed doors match.
Multiply that by the 9 games taking place each match day, multiplied by the number of match days.
It just takes 1 of those people to carry the virus and transmit it. The cycle begins again.
Unless of course, they continually test everyone single of those people to confirm they are clear.
To be honest, there is more chance of that happening than testing all of the NHS staff that need it.
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 12:56:00 PM
We have 6 home games left - 1 more than any of our rivals and 2 more in some cases. Home games are invaluable and we are averaging double the points at home than we pick up away. Why should we have that advantage taken away from us? An advantage that all of our rivals have enjoyed more times than we have.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 06, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
‘Behind closed doors’ is just utter bollocks and bullshit.
To my reckoning, this option still includes:-
2 squads of at least 20 players each.
Managers and coaches
Medical staff.
Match officials
Premier league officials
Stadium staff - obviously a reduced number but some required all the same.
Ground staff.
TV technicans
Cameramen
Commentators
Emergency services ?
Then there is the travel that all these people need to carry out.
I reckon that could be at least 100 - 150 people to put on a behind closed doors match.
Multiply that by the 9 games taking place each match day, multiplied by the number of match days.
It just takes 1 of those people to carry the virus and transmit it. The cycle begins again.
Unless of course, they continually test everyone single of those people to confirm they are clear.
To be honest, there is more chance of that happening than testing all of the NHS staff that need it.
I did ask a while back about the size of our changing rooms. Or will they be going full Sunday mornings division 9 shit weather, and getting changed in their cars before running straight onto the pitch?
Post by: Billy Walker on April 06, 2020, 01:09:43 PM
If they play behind closed doors, in the event that we finish bottom 3, how can it possibly be deemed fair or supporting the integrity of the sport?
We have 6 home games left - 1 more than any of our rivals and 2 more in some cases. Home games are invaluable and we are averaging double the points at home than we pick up away. Why should we have that advantage taken away from us? An advantage that all of our rivals have enjoyed more times than we have.
Exactly. The integrity of the 19-20 season is totally shot regardless of what happens next.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 06, 2020, 02:14:34 PM
I still can understand why they desperately want to finish this season for the integrity of the competition. Whilst it would probably be better for us to have the season voided, I can see that finishing it in due course is the fairest outcome - notwithstanding the complexities of contracts, transfer windows etc.
Where they would lose me is any attempt to do this before it is safe to do so. Playing behind closed doors would clearly be forcing it for the sake of it. There's no way they can guarantee player and staff security in those circumstances. What if one player from any team picks up the virus - surely that's the whole team out and the competition suspended?
If they must finish the season, do it when it's safe, even if this is at the cost of next seasons competition if necessary.
I'm also starting to come round to the idea that this is more money driven. Previously I was of the view that risking next seasons income must be worse than sacrificing the remainder of this. But I did hear reports that the league is coming under huge pressure from foreign broadcasters to finish the season and Sky are also now taking a harder line on this.
Well fuck them. If you must finish it do it in September or whenever it is safe to do so - and pay the price with any necessary disruption to next years competitions. Otherwise void it, which is really becoming the only other sensible solution.
Post by: mr underhill on April 06, 2020, 02:35:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 06, 2020, 02:40:40 PM
I've changed my views somewhat.
I still can understand why they desperately want to finish this season for the integrity of the competition. Whilst it would probably be better for us to have the season voided, I can see that finishing it in due course is the fairest outcome - notwithstanding the complexities of contracts, transfer windows etc.
Where they would lose me is any attempt to do this before it is safe to do so. Playing behind closed doors would clearly be forcing it for the sake of it. There's no way they can guarantee player and staff security in those circumstances. What if one player from any team picks up the virus - surely that's the whole team out and the competition suspended?
If they must finish the season, do it when it's safe, even if this is at the cost of next seasons competition if necessary.
I'm also starting to come round to the idea that this is more money driven. Previously I was of the view that risking next seasons income must be worse than sacrificing the remainder of this. But I did hear reports that the league is coming under huge pressure from foreign broadcasters to finish the season and Sky are also now taking a harder line on this.
Well fuck them. If you must finish it do it in September or whenever it is safe to do so - and pay the price with any necessary disruption to next years competitions. Otherwise void it, which is really becoming the only other sensible solution.
The bold line is the bit I don't agree with. I think losing competitions next season would, long term, be far more damaging than voiding this season. Cancelling the carabao cup or FA cup could very easily cause massive problems for smaller teams who rely on big gate receipts in the early rounds but also it further devalues the cups at a time when they're already treated as a distraction by far too many clubs.
I think we're already at the point where they're choosing between finishing this season or running a full season next year and I see no version of that where I don't think a proper 20/21 season (that maybe starts slightly later than usual) is better than some fucked-up ending to 19/20 with half fit teams containing players playing in front of no crowds or a season ending in september/october and throwing the entire schedule out for years.
Post by: Des Little on April 06, 2020, 02:41:19 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 06, 2020, 02:46:23 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 06, 2020, 02:50:15 PM
you've vehemently disagreed with me whenever i have voiced a similar opinion. It was, as is, only about money - and twenty odd years after selling their souls for it, the day of reckoning has come.My first line was "I've changed my views somewhat"
I still think the fairest solution is finishing the season, so believe much of the drive behind this from various quarters was for the right reasons. I therefore don't accept that it was, as is, only about money. But I do agree an unsafe early restart (as opposed to eating into next season) would seem to be money and a pretty distasteful outcome.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 06, 2020, 02:51:10 PM
The PL unilaterally dump itself out of CL/EL and live with the repercussions? No fucking chance.
Post by: aev on April 06, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
you've vehemently disagreed with me whenever i have voiced a similar opinion. It was, as is, only about money - and twenty odd years after selling their souls for it, the day of reckoning has come.My first line was "I've changed my views somewhat"
I still think the fairest solution is finishing the season, so believe much of the drive behind this from various quarters was for the right reasons. I therefore don't accept that it was, as is, only about money. But I do agree an unsafe early restart (as opposed to eating into next season) would seem to be money and a pretty distasteful outcome.
In an ideal world we would have been able to finish it but that ship sailed ages ago.
You are not really finishing a “season” anyway now. It is simply 2 different leagues stuck together for the the sake of money. A season is made up of momentum, runs of form, managing injuries suspension etc etc. This will be none of these. And to finish it behind closed doors?
Post by: aev on April 06, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Post by: Dave P on April 06, 2020, 03:22:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 06, 2020, 03:22:21 PM
you've vehemently disagreed with me whenever i have voiced a similar opinion. It was, as is, only about money - and twenty odd years after selling their souls for it, the day of reckoning has come.My first line was "I've changed my views somewhat"
I still think the fairest solution is finishing the season, so believe much of the drive behind this from various quarters was for the right reasons. I therefore don't accept that it was, as is, only about money. But I do agree an unsafe early restart (as opposed to eating into next season) would seem to be money and a pretty distasteful outcome.
In an ideal world we would have been able to finish it but that ship sailed ages ago.
You are not really finishing a “season” anyway now. It is simply 2 different leagues stuck together for the the sake of money. A less son is made up of momentum, runs of form, managing injuries suspension etc etc. This will be none of these. And to finish it behind closed doors?
Exactly right, once you have a 3month gap it isn't the same season. There will be some players who struggle to get fully match fit before these games are played out who were fit and in form before the break, that alone means this won't be a fair reflection of how the season should've finished. If, for example, we stay up and lets go with west ham go down instead they will have a legitimate argument that our respective form before the break means they wouldn't have been relegated and it's impossible to say if they're wrong.
Post by: Nev on April 06, 2020, 03:29:23 PM
Pep Guardiola's mother has died from Coronavirus. Awful news.
If news like this doesn't finally spark the football authorities into some sort of definitive action then I don't know what will.
Post by: aev on April 06, 2020, 03:32:29 PM
Pep Guardiola's mother has died from Coronavirus. Awful news.
If news like this doesn't finally spark the football authorities into some sort of definitive action then I don't know what will.
Play on, it is what she would have wanted.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 06, 2020, 04:27:36 PM
I agree.you've vehemently disagreed with me whenever i have voiced a similar opinion. It was, as is, only about money - and twenty odd years after selling their souls for it, the day of reckoning has come.My first line was "I've changed my views somewhat"
I still think the fairest solution is finishing the season, so believe much of the drive behind this from various quarters was for the right reasons. I therefore don't accept that it was, as is, only about money. But I do agree an unsafe early restart (as opposed to eating into next season) would seem to be money and a pretty distasteful outcome.
In an ideal world we would have been able to finish it but that ship sailed ages ago.
You are not really finishing a “season” anyway now. It is simply 2 different leagues stuck together for the the sake of money. A less son is made up of momentum, runs of form, managing injuries suspension etc etc. This will be none of these. And to finish it behind closed doors?
Exactly right, once you have a 3month gap it isn't the same season. There will be some players who struggle to get fully match fit before these games are played out who were fit and in form before the break, that alone means this won't be a fair reflection of how the season should've finished. If, for example, we stay up and lets go with west ham go down instead they will have a legitimate argument that our respective form before the break means they wouldn't have been relegated and it's impossible to say if they're wrong.
However, although very flawed, it would still probably be 'fairer' than the alternatives of either deciding places on current points of voiding the season with no promotions or rewards for teams who have peroformed exceptionally for 3/4 of a season (Sheffield etc).
Post by: Nev on April 06, 2020, 04:35:15 PM
I agree.you've vehemently disagreed with me whenever i have voiced a similar opinion. It was, as is, only about money - and twenty odd years after selling their souls for it, the day of reckoning has come.My first line was "I've changed my views somewhat"
I still think the fairest solution is finishing the season, so believe much of the drive behind this from various quarters was for the right reasons. I therefore don't accept that it was, as is, only about money. But I do agree an unsafe early restart (as opposed to eating into next season) would seem to be money and a pretty distasteful outcome.
In an ideal world we would have been able to finish it but that ship sailed ages ago.
You are not really finishing a “season” anyway now. It is simply 2 different leagues stuck together for the the sake of money. A less son is made up of momentum, runs of form, managing injuries suspension etc etc. This will be none of these. And to finish it behind closed doors?
Exactly right, once you have a 3month gap it isn't the same season. There will be some players who struggle to get fully match fit before these games are played out who were fit and in form before the break, that alone means this won't be a fair reflection of how the season should've finished. If, for example, we stay up and lets go with west ham go down instead they will have a legitimate argument that our respective form before the break means they wouldn't have been relegated and it's impossible to say if they're wrong.
However, although very flawed, it would still probably be 'fairer' than the alternatives of either deciding places on current points of voiding the season with no promotions or rewards for teams who have peroformed exceptionally for 3/4 of a season (Sheffield etc).
As frustrating as it may be, everyone is having to suck it up and make sacrifices, some unimaginable, so I don't see why football should be any different.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 06, 2020, 04:41:51 PM
Post by: nick harper on April 06, 2020, 05:11:20 PM
I do wonder what the bottom 6 clubs will do if this comes to pass as they will have most to lose - and all clubs in similar positions across Europe. None have said anything yet except Brady at the start of all this.
They’ve just had the chairman of Burnley on Radio 5 live insisting the season should be finished behind closed doors. Easy to say when your club have 39 points and the season is over bar collecting the money.
Post by: eamonn on April 06, 2020, 05:34:22 PM
Pep Guardiola's mother has died from Coronavirus. Awful news.
Awks being Kyle Walker next time he looks him in the eye.
Post by: Villan82 on April 06, 2020, 05:35:57 PM
The greed and the protection of the top four has been on full view.
Post by: Nev on April 06, 2020, 06:01:12 PM
Exactly. So you'll be happy if they finish the season on current placings (adopting av points per game for games in hand) and Villa make that sacrifice of course?
I couldn't give care less about our status or place in the PL at the moment, it's just not an issue for me. We'll still have football and a club to follow. Anything other than voiding the season makes assumptions that fly in the face of everything that sport is all about and the twisting and turning of the authorities to try and keep the gravy train running is vulgar and offensive.
Post by: CT Villan on April 06, 2020, 06:12:43 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on April 06, 2020, 06:26:05 PM
In addition to all of the necessary discussion around finishing/voiding the season, the powers that be will have to void or at least amend FFP requirements too given the potentially massive financial fallout from this pandemic.
If things get too bad then FFP wont come into it. It maybe a case of who is solvent.
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 06:31:44 PM
The integrity of a home and away league season is that all games are played within the same framework, rules and criteria. Playing behind closed doors affects some clubs much more than others and is therefore unfair in my opinion.
I do wonder what the bottom 6 clubs will do if this comes to pass as they will have most to lose - and all clubs in similar positions across Europe. None have said anything yet except Brady at the start of all this.
They’ve just had the chairman of Burnley on Radio 5 live insisting the season should be finished behind closed doors. Easy to say when your club have 39 points and the season is over bar collecting the money.
Finish the season but scrap relegation. Give 2 promotion spots if necessary to the Championship. Abort the play offs.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 06, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
I think we have to realise is that we are not going to come out of this crisis like turning a light back on. We will have to be eased out of it, and slowly transition back to 'normality' and that is going to take a very long time.
Look at the US, for example. There are currently 350,000 people with coronavirus. How does that figure get reduced and how long does it take? And then how long does it take for that to progress to normality?
Then look at Italy, Spain and France, or here. So many cases. When do things like travel return? When can people travel from Germany to here, for example?
All these monumentally challenging questions that need to be addressed before the trifling matter of finishing a football season.
When the authorities in NYC are talking about the real possibility of temporarily burying people in public parks, it seems grotesque for football clubs to be fretting about money.
Post by: Damo70 on April 06, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
Post by: Legion on April 06, 2020, 09:17:45 PM
Post by: Ad@m on April 06, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
Make them Champions-elect. No relegation as it is an unfair representation at the moment. Promotion from Division 2? Sandwell and Dirty Leeds would probably have come straight up.
Nah, they've both got a long and distinguished history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Leave all the divisions as is and start again when it's safe to do so with fans in the ground.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 06, 2020, 09:28:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 06, 2020, 09:30:39 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
Yup.
Post by: Risso on April 06, 2020, 09:31:15 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
I'm with you. The more we've moved away from it, the less I care. Normally during the summer I'm like a cat on a hot tin roof waiting for the season to start again, but now, couldn't care less.
Post by: Ad@m on April 06, 2020, 09:31:42 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
In the grand scheme of things of course it is. But then you could've said that six months ago, before all this even started.
As it is, we'll get through this, football will start up again, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to be distracted from the pretty horrendous goings on in the world at the moment.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 06, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
I'm with you. The more we've moved away from it, the less I care. Normally during the summer I'm like a cat on a hot tin roof waiting for the season to start again, but now, couldn't care less.
With the actions of Uefa, PFA, some of the players and clubs, showing what truly matters to them even at a time like this, I actually think I actively dislike the game right now.
Post by: Clampy on April 06, 2020, 09:42:27 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
I haven't given it a second thought since all this kicked off. Yes, It'll be great when we're back to normality and going to games again but it can take as long as it needs to.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 06, 2020, 09:42:59 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
I'm with you. The more we've moved away from it, the less I care. Normally during the summer I'm like a cat on a hot tin roof waiting for the season to start again, but now, couldn't care less.
100% agree with you both.
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 09:44:06 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
But discussing options is valid. As is discussing football in general.
I 100% care about what division we're in.
If the season is played out properly (with crowds present) then we finish the season properly.
If the season is played out artificially (behind closed doors) then we finish for the benefit of TV money but nobody should be relegated. If the Championship is finished, it would then be fair to allow the top 2 admission to the PL. Either way, play offs should be scrapped due to time frames.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 06, 2020, 09:45:45 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 09:47:57 PM
I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
Post by: Clampy on April 06, 2020, 09:51:01 PM
I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 06, 2020, 09:54:11 PM
Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Post by: Clampy on April 06, 2020, 09:55:38 PM
Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 06, 2020, 09:59:24 PM
Well yes, and I agree with PWS, but thinking otherwise isn't a problem is it? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Post by: Clampy on April 06, 2020, 10:01:57 PM
Post by: TheMalandro on April 06, 2020, 10:05:39 PM
Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 10:16:25 PM
Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 06, 2020, 10:22:44 PM
Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
What's your point then?
It's his take on it!
He's not saying you have to agree.
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 06, 2020, 10:33:05 PM
Could not give a shit about football to be honest.
And as for sky - as soon as I can get through they can go fuckthemselves. Charging same price for more United loving reruns is taking the piss beyond belief.
I will always love the villa but it pales into insignificance at the moment.
As for the players wages.they could have stopped all the flak if they had decided to make a gesture themselves without bej g told. I fear they could also face a backlash. As someone said above how could a Muppet like walker even face Pep again.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 06, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Post by: Clampy on April 06, 2020, 10:37:15 PM
I've not been able to see my kids and my 87 year old mother who is terrified for 2 weeks.
Could not give a shit about football to be honest.
And as for sky - as soon as I can get through they can go fuckthemselves. Charging same price for more United loving reruns is taking the piss beyond belief.
I will always love the villa but it pales into insignificance at the moment.
As for the players wages.they could have stopped all the flak if they had decided to make a gesture themselves without bej g told. I fear they could also face a backlash. As someone said above how could a Muppet like walker even face Pep again.
You can pause your sky sports account at the moment and you can do it online.
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 10:47:06 PM
My point?Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
What's your point then?
It's his take on it!
He's not saying you have to agree.
You're the one who is posting after me. I didn't have a point - I simply responded to a post disagreeing.
What's your point?
Post by: Drummond on April 06, 2020, 10:51:31 PM
We don't know when football can start again, it may be that it can't start this calendar year and if so, finishing this season could work just fine, just a year behind. If the players change due to contracts then so be it.
Income would obviously be hit re the TV deals. But there's just no way of deciding and no rush either.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 06, 2020, 10:57:52 PM
My point?Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
What's your point then?
It's his take on it!
He's not saying you have to agree.
You're the one who is posting after me. I didn't have a point - I simply responded to a post disagreeing.
What's your point?
No problem, you didn't have a point.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 06, 2020, 11:04:32 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on April 06, 2020, 11:07:39 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 11:08:29 PM
My point?Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
What's your point then?
It's his take on it!
He's not saying you have to agree.
You're the one who is posting after me. I didn't have a point - I simply responded to a post disagreeing.
What's your point?
No problem, you didn't have a point.
No. I disagreed with a comment. Is that not allowed any more?
You didn’t have a point either. In fact you didn’t even manage to read the posts properly before sticking your oar in.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 06, 2020, 11:17:07 PM
My point?Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
What's your point then?
It's his take on it!
He's not saying you have to agree.
You're the one who is posting after me. I didn't have a point - I simply responded to a post disagreeing.
What's your point?
No problem, you didn't have a point.
No. I disagreed with a comment. Is that not allowed any more?
You didn’t have a point either. In fact you didn’t even manage to read the posts properly before sticking your oar in.
He gave his own opinion - that football doesn't matter.
You are arguing the toss.
Post by: Brassneck on April 06, 2020, 11:22:43 PM
My point?Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
What's your point then?
It's his take on it!
He's not saying you have to agree.
You're the one who is posting after me. I didn't have a point - I simply responded to a post disagreeing.
What's your point?
No problem, you didn't have a point.
No. I disagreed with a comment. Is that not allowed any more?
You didn’t have a point either. In fact you didn’t even manage to read the posts properly before sticking your oar in.
He gave his own opinion - that football doesn't matter.
You are arguing the toss.
Aren’t I a naughty boy? How dare I have my own feelings and opinions.
I’ll go and stand in the corner with a dunces cap on for an hour.
Post by: Villan82 on April 06, 2020, 11:24:35 PM
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
Absolutely agree 100%.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 06, 2020, 11:30:11 PM
My point?Probably PWS's opinion that it's meaningless I expect.I didn't tell anyone not to discuss it, I was saying how I feel. Didn't say anyone had to agree with me.
Yeah I know
And i'm just saying I don't agree with you.
What don't you agree with? That PWS does not care less right now?
Meaningless to him is possibly what he meant and at the moment, to some people it is.
Well regrettably, I'm not a mind reader so I have to respond to what is written. Besides, PWS himself stated that people didn't have to agree with him so I'm not sure where you got your theory from.
To me, football is still important, as is the state of our economy and everything else that will play a part in our everyday lives once this is over.
As he has over fifty thousand posts on here, I'm pretty sure Villa are fairly important to him.
Probably not as significant as his friends and family.
Not as significant as my friends and family either.....But that wasn't what was written was it?
He stated that he doesn't care what division Villa play in when football starts. I do
He stated it was all pretty meaningless. I disagree. That doesn't mean I don't have a perspective.
What's your point then?
It's his take on it!
He's not saying you have to agree.
You're the one who is posting after me. I didn't have a point - I simply responded to a post disagreeing.
What's your point?
No problem, you didn't have a point.
No. I disagreed with a comment. Is that not allowed any more?
You didn’t have a point either. In fact you didn’t even manage to read the posts properly before sticking your oar in.
He gave his own opinion - that football doesn't matter.
You are arguing the toss.
Aren’t I a naughty boy? How dare I have my own feelings and opinions.
I’ll go and stand in the corner with a dunces cap on for an hour.
I genuinely couldn't give a shit about football, don't care when it starts again, don't care what division we are in when it does. It really is all pretty meaningless.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 06, 2020, 11:31:16 PM
Post by: algy on April 06, 2020, 11:40:17 PM
I think postponing indefinitely is the only way to go.I've come to pretty much the same conclusion. Postpone the season until we're at a point where a sensible decision can be made. There's very different choices to be made if the league restarts in the summer Vs start in 10-12 months time.
We don't know when football can start again, it may be that it can't start this calendar year and if so, finishing this season could work just fine, just a year behind. If the players change due to contracts then so be it.
Income would obviously be hit re the TV deals. But there's just no way of deciding and no rush either.
Post by: TheMalandro on April 06, 2020, 11:48:27 PM
Pack it in with a) the arguing and b) the endless quoteathon.
Aye.
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 07, 2020, 01:01:16 AM
There won’t be a perfect time for the world to start up again. Let alone sports. So what will be acceptable?
Post by: ROBBO on April 07, 2020, 02:17:07 AM
Post by: CT on April 07, 2020, 07:33:19 AM
Post by: Nev on April 07, 2020, 08:25:58 AM
The legitimate question will come though, not just with football or sports but just about everything. When is the right time to start things up again? When will you have confidence we are past the worst? Or that it won’t happen again? Or that the person at the bus stop next to you, or at the supermarket or lined up at Greggs doesn’t have it? When will it be ok in this instance football to say that it’s time? Because on that day some will be overjoyed as the monotony caused by all of this will start to lift while others will be appalled that it’s being contemplated without a full cure being discovered. While someone somewhere is dying of it.
There won’t be a perfect time for the world to start up again. Let alone sports. So what will be acceptable?
Right now I would void the season and propose to start the new season in September. This gives time for everyone in football to plan for the future within the current restrictions.
There would be no League Cup and no Europa League for this season only to aid the late start and also to give flex were the season not to start on time. The FA Cup is a tricky one, it starts in the late summer for non-league and perhaps this can happen with the expected small crowds. If not a delay may instigate the need to start the competition higher up the pyramid with compensation given to those unable to take part.
This all relies on a return to relative normality at the end of the summer which is by no means certain but at least gives some sort of structure to work to. It is based purely on the advice of the government and not on the economic factors, Sky or any other irrelevant factor that could peoples lives at risk.
Playing the remaining games some 6 months late and calling it the same season is frankly, bollocks, it becomes a mini season in itself and is unrepresentative of what came before.
Post by: JD on April 07, 2020, 08:53:13 AM
It's got the point where I don't give a shit who become champions, who goes down and who comes up, or if anyone does. It all seems so immaterial. I can't go and visit my 80 year old parents, what do I care which division anyone is in next season?
Totally agree mate.Ii can't come over to the UK to see my elderly Mother, I can't see my kids or my grandson. I had a holiday booked in the Cook Islands which has been cancelled. My wife has lost her job and is driving me mad while I am trying to work from home. Realistically who really cares what happens with the football season.
Post by: Brassneck on April 07, 2020, 08:59:49 AM
The legitimate question will come though, not just with football or sports but just about everything. When is the right time to start things up again? When will you have confidence we are past the worst? Or that it won’t happen again? Or that the person at the bus stop next to you, or at the supermarket or lined up at Greggs doesn’t have it? When will it be ok in this instance football to say that it’s time? Because on that day some will be overjoyed as the monotony caused by all of this will start to lift while others will be appalled that it’s being contemplated without a full cure being discovered. While someone somewhere is dying of it.
There won’t be a perfect time for the world to start up again. Let alone sports. So what will be acceptable?
Right now I would void the season and propose to start the new season in September. This gives time for everyone in football to plan for the future within the current restrictions.
There would be no League Cup and no Europa League for this season only to aid the late start and also to give flex were the season not to start on time. The FA Cup is a tricky one, it starts in the late summer for non-league and perhaps this can happen with the expected small crowds. If not a delay may instigate the need to start the competition higher up the pyramid with compensation given to those unable to take part.
This all relies on a return to relative normality at the end of the summer which is by no means certain but at least gives some sort of structure to work to. It is based purely on the advice of the government and not on the economic factors, Sky or any other irrelevant factor that could peoples lives at risk.
Playing the remaining games some 6 months late and calling it the same season is frankly, bollocks, it becomes a mini season in itself and is unrepresentative of what came before.
Clubs are claiming that they can't last until September with no income.
I fully understand why they are delaying a decision. While there is still hope of getting the games finished, they have to look at it.
It's looking less and less likely that games played in front of crowds will be an option. They appear to be pinning their hopes on games being played behind closed doors. This of course would involve gatherings of around 200 people. I'm not sure how this can be encouraged/accepted?
Post by: Somniloquism on April 07, 2020, 09:19:12 AM
Nothing will go back to normal until there is a vaccine which the experts say is twelve to eighteen months away, even if percentages drop there will still be outbreaks, not sure why the FA are delaying the decision.
Or at least an ability to test who has had it and who hasn't.
Anyone who hasn't had it would be more at risk in training, playing etc and as mentioned here, all you need is for 2-3 to come in and that is one or two teams who might not be able to fulfil fixtures again.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 07, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
Obviously football pales into insignificance in the wider context of what is going on. Nobody will care more about football than whether friends or love ones come through this crisis unscathed. Even for those who get through with their health and job, as a country we'll be paying this off for two generations.
But caring about the real world doesn't mean you should have to suspend your interest in a game and team you have followed all your life. I care deeply about what happens to Villa, as when we get back to some sort of normality I'm sure they will be playing a big part in my life. Whilst accepting in the scheme of things it's not that important, nobody should be made to feel callous or uncaring for wanting and hoping the best for Villa.
Football is escapism. It is important to millions of people around the world. It is the glue that holds communities and friendships together. In the current shit storm people should be allowed to escape to their favourite footy forum to chew the fat about their team without inference that they are uncaring for doing so.
Post by: JD on April 07, 2020, 09:41:32 AM
Post by: Nev on April 07, 2020, 09:45:40 AM
At the outset I identified how important this forum was to us all, and the myriad discussions about the Villa give us that valuable escapism and long may they all continue.
Post by: mr underhill on April 07, 2020, 10:39:15 AM
Post by: Clampy on April 07, 2020, 10:54:02 AM
I second that emotion.
Thats because you've given a lifetime of devotion.
Post by: mr underhill on April 07, 2020, 12:37:50 PM
Post by: aev on April 07, 2020, 03:30:40 PM
One of them has quoted Greg Clark(e) from the FA saying there is a danger of the leagues not being completed (which is the first I have seen from anyone in an official capacity mentioning this). He has obviously done a press conference today because Henry Winter has also tweeted a couple of thoughts and comments from him, with nothing about his concerns about the season.
Henry Winter was also on R4 the other morning stating the league had to be completed, with no mention of anything else.
I find it interesting how journalists decide what to tweet - if one was feeling uncharitable it could be suggested they are pushing their own agenda / self interest.
Post by: Steamin_330 on April 07, 2020, 05:53:55 PM
Post by: john2710 on April 07, 2020, 07:20:49 PM
Football cannot isolate itself from this, there's going to be a financial hit on owners, players, agents & the broadcasters just like the rest of society. Trying to force through a return to normality whilst people are dying makes the whole industry look immoral & heartless.
I get that society wants to return to normality, as everybody's wellbeing is being tested, but playing football in empty stadium's is not normality.
When all this is done hopefully society will re-evaluate what's really important.
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 07, 2020, 08:22:22 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 07, 2020, 08:33:33 PM
View from Spain https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52198036
Of the 3 dates mentioned, the 28th June seems the more likely and even then I imagine that's being very optimistic. The curve down is going to be much longer than the curve up.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 07, 2020, 09:40:20 PM
With clubs having to extend some players' contracts by a month, have the extra cost of other part time staff during the summer months and running up costs now during the period in limbo, how are the ones that are saying they are having financial difficulties now going to survive. Granted that clubs are losing money because of the situation now but if you say now that the season is cancelled, at least the clubs in trouble can save themselves from going out of business by looking to sell players. Delaying making a decision will send more out of business, just so they can finish a season and disrupt next season.
All the talk about cancelling next season to finish this season does not make any sense economically.
I would say they have 2 weeks to make the call.
Post by: john2710 on April 07, 2020, 09:43:37 PM
View from Spain https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52198036
Of the 3 dates mentioned, the 28th June seems the more likely and even then I imagine that's being very optimistic. The curve down is going to be much longer than the curve up.
If the UK is 3-4 weeks behind the curves of Spain & Italy, then we'll be 3-4 weeks behind them in restarting.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 07, 2020, 10:58:10 PM
It is yet another thing that highlights the stupidity of the league's desperation to resume playing as soon as possible. Those clubs that have broken the Government guidelines to train will be fitter and better prepared than those that haven't flouted the rules.
(I'm not sure if "Government" should have had a capital letter in the sentence above but it didn't look right without it)
Post by: Villafirst on April 07, 2020, 11:08:22 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 07, 2020, 11:32:10 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 07, 2020, 11:40:02 PM
Best wishes at this time
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 07, 2020, 11:42:39 PM
I've not been able to see my kids and my 87 year old mother who is terrified for 2 weeks.
Could not give a shit about football to be honest.
And as for sky - as soon as I can get through they can go fuckthemselves. Charging same price for more United loving reruns is taking the piss beyond belief.
I will always love the villa but it pales into insignificance at the moment.
As for the players wages.they could have stopped all the flak if they had decided to make a gesture themselves without bej g told. I fear they could also face a backlash. As someone said above how could a Muppet like walker even face Pep again.
Get that.
Best wishes at this time.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 07, 2020, 11:43:28 PM
Chicago how are you and America life over there.All is well thanks.
Best wishes at this time
A beautiful day today. Most people observing distancing.
Thanks for asking. Where do you live ?
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 08, 2020, 03:08:55 AM
Chicago is getting worse particularly in the South, I live North fortunately.Sure well the weather sounds good for you at leastChicago how are you and America life over there.All is well thanks.
Best wishes at this time
A beautiful day today. Most people observing distancing.
Thanks for asking. Where do you live ?
I live by london .
Now I made the choice to live with my gf and her mum at this time. Otherwise her mum is by herself .
I was to go to Boston for work but that isn't happening if course .
And I'm familiar with parts of American but not Chicago
A lot of UK mainstream (TV) talk here is New York situation so was just wondering.
And we all sending the international love to America at this most difficult of weeks.
Prayers
All the best up the villa.
They hope NY peaked today. There are States still no lock down.
It will be a problem in the US for a long time.
Stay safe.
Post by: sid1964 on April 08, 2020, 06:36:58 AM
With regards to football - more and more clubs will go down the furloughing of their players - they are paid to do a job which they are not doing - it will be interesting to see which premier league club is the the first to do this?
Post by: aev on April 08, 2020, 07:28:26 AM
Post by: Towser on April 08, 2020, 08:19:29 AM
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on April 08, 2020, 09:43:20 AM
Post by: Towser on April 08, 2020, 09:55:46 AM
Post by: aev on April 08, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 08, 2020, 11:28:01 AM
You’d think the massive break enabling players to recharge batteries would massively benefit a Bielsa team.
Exactly - And a Wolves team who have endured a marathon already this season.
Post by: Dick Edwards on April 08, 2020, 11:41:08 AM
Something has to give. If the game can't continue by mid May I don't see how either one of this season, or next, can not be cancelled.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 08, 2020, 01:00:48 PM
-Null and void season
-Finish the season as it is and leave the standings as they are.
-Permanently change the football calendar. Take the rest of the year to finish this season, then start the next one in Feb/March until winter, with a break for the Euros.
Post by: garyellis on April 08, 2020, 01:15:23 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 08, 2020, 01:28:12 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 08, 2020, 01:30:39 PM
If the Premier League "hit" is £1bn for not finishing the season, what is our share of that hit and is voiding the season still preferable to relegation?The hit is around £40 million. We also stand to lose out on around £3.5 million in gate receipts plus sponsorship, merchandise sales and other spin offs.
It is much more preferable to relegation because each club around us will receive similar hits.
Post by: Legion on April 08, 2020, 01:31:02 PM
3 choices for me.
-Null and void season
-Finish the season as it is and leave the standings as they are.
-Permanently change the football calendar. Take the rest of the year to finish this season, then start the next one in Feb/March until winter, with a break for the Euros.
2 should be a non-starter.
Post by: Brassneck on April 08, 2020, 01:31:44 PM
Unless you are mathematically relegated or promoted you cannot just end the season and count those as final standings. The relegated teams in every instance would fight it in court. The financial consequences could be disastrous especially falling out of the PL.I agree - My only worry is if there is any mileage in averaging out points for the outstanding games.
Post by: usav on April 08, 2020, 01:55:22 PM
3 choices for me.
-Null and void season
-Finish the season as it is and leave the standings as they are.
-Permanently change the football calendar. Take the rest of the year to finish this season, then start the next one in Feb/March until winter, with a break for the Euros.
1 - obvious choice
2 - so many issues with this
3 - how would you ever get caught up?
Post by: Brassneck on April 08, 2020, 02:19:17 PM
1. Play out this season in June/July in front of crowds
2. Play out this season in June/July behind closed doors
3. Null and void this season and start next season in August/September
4. Null and void ext season and finish this season later in the year/early next year
None are ideal and all will give certain teams advantages and others disadvantages.
Post by: Towser on April 08, 2020, 03:09:04 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 08, 2020, 03:19:46 PM
Post by: Risso on April 08, 2020, 03:38:22 PM
Sounds like they would technically be "relegated", but they are pressing ahead with plans for restructuring the leagues so they would probably be saved after all. I just hope that any restructuring doesn't include the incredibly shit proposals to include B teams in the lower leagues which the Bigot Brothers are always trying to sneak in. The twats.
It says "But it would also be decided on points won per match "if the SPFL board determines" the games cannot be played." So they'd stay up then, as winning their game in hand would take them out of the relegation places.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 08, 2020, 03:47:48 PM
Post by: nick harper on April 08, 2020, 04:19:44 PM
Crowds are not coming back to football or any other sport until there are treatments from existing drugs that reduce the effects of this to something more like seasonal flu, or there is a vaccine.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 08, 2020, 04:24:45 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 08, 2020, 04:25:26 PM
I’ll be amazed if there are still 92 league clubs left at the end of all this.
So will I, there were only ninety-one at the start of it (Bury went under at the beginning of the season).
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 08, 2020, 04:26:17 PM
They are going to try and finish the season behind closed doors and start next season after Vacine which is hoped for in August.
They can stick their closed doors, we have more remaining home games than anyone else. Wait till you can play it properly or don't play it at all.
Post by: Towser on April 08, 2020, 04:36:44 PM
Post by: Towser on April 08, 2020, 04:49:35 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 08, 2020, 04:52:39 PM
I agree, we should refuse to play them and go to court.They are going to try and finish the season behind closed doors and start next season after Vacine which is hoped for in August.
They can stick their closed doors, we have more remaining home games than anyone else. Wait till you can play it properly or don't play it at all.
Post by: Villafirst on April 08, 2020, 05:31:51 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 08, 2020, 05:36:31 PM
Post by: Villan82 on April 08, 2020, 06:21:05 PM
That game in hand we hold is our trump card. You can't decide relegation places if you've got an extra fixture over rival teams. I'm sure Villa would launch a law suit to challenge any unfair decision.
The 'reset' button needs to be pressed. Any other option is unethical -unfair on players given their is a public health crisis - as far as I am concerned.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 08, 2020, 06:24:08 PM
Post by: Mister E on April 08, 2020, 06:31:53 PM
That game in hand we hold is our trump card. You can't decide relegation places if you've got an extra fixture over rival teams. I'm sure Villa would launch a law suit to challenge any unfair decision.Watford 3 - 0 Liverpool.
That's the killer argument in respect of points-averaging or any other way of second-guessing the season;s outcomes.
Post by: Villan For Life on April 08, 2020, 06:32:51 PM
So if that happens, how could the season be finished?
Post by: Villafirst on April 08, 2020, 07:34:17 PM
That game in hand we hold is our trump card. You can't decide relegation places if you've got an extra fixture over rival teams. I'm sure Villa would launch a law suit to challenge any unfair decision.Watford 3 - 0 Liverpool.
That's the killer argument in respect of points-averaging or any other way of second-guessing the season;s outcomes.
I think Watford have spent far longer in the bottom 3 than Villa this season. Perhaps you could base it on weeks spent in the botom 3 over the season so far? I reckon we'd be out of the bottom 3 on that basis!
Post by: Ads on April 08, 2020, 09:09:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 08, 2020, 09:22:40 PM
That game in hand we hold is our trump card. You can't decide relegation places if you've got an extra fixture over rival teams. I'm sure Villa would launch a law suit to challenge any unfair decision.Watford 3 - 0 Liverpool.
That's the killer argument in respect of points-averaging or any other way of second-guessing the season;s outcomes.
I think Watford have spent far longer in the bottom 3 than Villa this season. Perhaps you could base it on weeks spent in the botom 3 over the season so far? I reckon we'd be out of the bottom 3 on that basis!
To be honest that's probably fairer than adding average points. We're in the bottom 3 because of a rearranged fixture and a run of poor results, but even 2 weeks earlier we'd have been safely out of the bottom 3 on the same measure and 1 win changes things again. It's still a poor option though because whatever you do someone is going to feel they've been relegated unfairly.
For that reason any plan which results in relegation after only playing 3/4s of the season would be completely unacceptable and would see legal challenges.
Likewise playing behind closed doors nullifies home and away and puts teams like us with more homes than aways to play at a disadvantage so again I don't see how the league could be considered fairly resolved in that regard. Add to that the likelihood that preperations for games would be hindered and VAR would probably not be used and you're making too many fundamental changes during the season that can have an impact. Again I don't see it as an acceptable solution.
I think they have realistic 2 options, you void the season or you play it out. Even then playing out the season after a 3-4month break is like having a new mini season and comes with a whole host of problems of it's own. It's a tough call but I still think the most sensible option is the abandon the season and try to get back to 'normal' as quickly as possible next year. I know that has it's own issues but if the choice is between sporting legitimacy or finance then the integrity of the game in the long run requires the decision to ensure fairness and voiding is the best option for that.
Post by: Legion on April 08, 2020, 09:28:07 PM
Post by: Ads on April 08, 2020, 09:35:37 PM
Abandon it for me, but if it is continued at least we will have McGinn and Heaton back. Those sort of factors cannot be incorporated into future virtually-predicted stats.
Heaton isn't registered.
Post by: paul_e on April 08, 2020, 09:36:40 PM
Abandon it for me, but if it is continued at least we will have McGinn and Heaton back. Those sort of factors cannot be incorporated into future virtually-predicted stats.
Maybe no Heaton, he wasn't included in the squad list after January. That's another thing that makes the long gap questionable, clearly we'd have included him if there was a chance he'd play the last 10 games.
Post by: Legion on April 08, 2020, 09:43:49 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on April 08, 2020, 11:20:26 PM
You can't change the rules of any competition before it's finished. A match that gets abandoned has to be played again and the same should apply here.
That seems so obvious to me so why isn't anybody questioning on what legal grounds can they change the rules. Answer that and you rule out any of these suggested 'out of the ordinary' ways of finishing the season without actually finishing it. You are then down to completing the season or the season is cancelled. Then put together a realistic time frame for completing and if we cannot get up and running by the date required, the season is cancelled. All this about cancelling next season would still be open to legal challenge by teams relegated from the PL on the basis of how long it would take them to be able to try and get promoted, together will the lost revenue from next season for other clubs.
If a decision is made which results in a legal challenge, that will be it for football as the first thing that will get slapped in will be an injunction to prevent the season restarting.
I have not seen anything about insurance. Who is covered for what? Are the TV companies covered if they cannot broadcast and are the clubs covered if they do not get the broadcasting money?
We all want to see the season finished but in a reasonable time.
Post by: Brassneck on April 09, 2020, 12:43:12 AM
The only way it can be resolved is by way of an extraordinary meeting. In the case of the season being impossible to complete (save for aborting next season), it seems reasonable that the clubs will vote on the way to end the season. ie void it, finish it as it is or average out points.
Voiding it seems the most obvious but I wouldn't write off the ability to change the rules to suit the circumstances.
I think they're hoping that the season can be completed behind closed doors later in the summer.
Post by: mallo on April 09, 2020, 06:07:23 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on April 09, 2020, 08:25:53 AM
The current PL idea is to have hub stadiums whereby four or five fixtures would be played each day over a three/four period, teams would then move on to the next hub for the next round. Games behind closed doors. Games played at neutral venues.
He also said that the PL were 'desperate' to play games as they would lose huge amounts of cash to the overseas market, SKY money is relatively small in comparison.
Post by: aev on April 09, 2020, 08:46:04 AM
My pal at the FA has told me they are planning on losing +£50m due to the Euros, FA cup and Playoffs.
The current PL idea is to have hub stadiums whereby four or five fixtures would be played each day over a three/four period, teams would then move on to the next hub for the next round. Games behind closed doors. Games played at neutral venues.
He also said that the PL were 'desperate' to play games as they would lose huge amounts of cash to the overseas market, SKY money is relatively small in comparison.
There is no fair way of completing the season now, whatever happens some parties will be feeling aggrieved.
If the above is true, pecuniary interests are their only concern.
Post by: Mister E on April 09, 2020, 08:48:46 AM
My pal at the FA has told me they are planning on losing +£50m due to the Euros, FA cup and Playoffs.Well, for the fans who attend games, that is an absolutely terrible idea.
The current PL idea is to have hub stadiums whereby four or five fixtures would be played each day over a three/four period, teams would then move on to the next hub for the next round. Games behind closed doors. Games played at neutral venues.
He also said that the PL were 'desperate' to play games as they would lose huge amounts of cash to the overseas market, SKY money is relatively small in comparison.
It again shows football kowtowing to TV and further undermines its integrity; sanitising the game, killing its spirit.
They would take that course of action and suffer the consequences of a mass walkaway from live football going forward.
Post by: frank black on April 09, 2020, 09:04:43 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 09, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
But whilst it is miles from perfect I'm not sure how it is less fair than finishing the season based on average points? Or less fair than denying Liverpool the championship, Sheffield a shot at Champions league and Leeds & the Baggies promotion? Is it less fair than allowing clubs to go to the wall due to lack of income?
Absolutely we lose our home advantage, so it certainly screws us over a bit. But is it screwing us over more than the above? At least we're being given a chance to play for our future with our second best player fully fit again, rather than having it imposed on us. I'd much rather they void the season, but taking my claret specs off I don't see how it is so much worse than the other solutions.
Post by: mr underhill on April 09, 2020, 09:20:39 AM
Post by: andyh on April 09, 2020, 09:37:54 AM
So, turn this on it’s head.
If, and it’s a massive if, this plan were to come to fruition. Would the Clubs refund every season ticket holder at every club for games they have paid for but cannot attend?
Post by: paul_e on April 09, 2020, 09:38:20 AM
all football is doing is eating itself and the game will never be the same again - which in many ways, will be a good thing. At he moment, the paymasters and authorities seem to be in a sort of James Bond world where the villain devises ever more tortuous and improbable ways of killing their adversary when a simple bullet would do. These fanciful ideas are bullshit and I would imagine be challenged in court. We have I think four home games left and there isn't a hope in hell that we will accept playing them behind 'closed doors' in other venues over a condensed period of time.
6 homes and 4 aways for us.
Post by: Rotterdam on April 09, 2020, 09:39:07 AM
He also suggested that the FA fully expect a number of lower league clubs to go pop.
If I get any other info, I'll let you know.
Post by: andyh on April 09, 2020, 09:42:22 AM
Surely this can only happen when the virus has been completely eradicated?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 09, 2020, 09:51:36 AM
As is rightly recognised, this is all about money.I would have thought so, yes.
So, turn this on it’s head.
If, and it’s a massive if, this plan were to come to fruition. Would the Clubs refund every season ticket holder at every club for games they have paid for but cannot attend?
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 09, 2020, 09:59:18 AM
Because Germany and those who run the country recognise and respect the health care and spent and invested they of course (like their education , finance and general way of life and culture) are the most prepared for Corona virus. They have a health care system designed to cope.
Within Europe and the world they have the most suitable hospitals as well as most beds of critical care ICU beds and overall hospital beds to deal with their population.
The number of cases of the virus are high but the survival rate from Corona virus is the highest anyway in the world.
Because of this and the fantastic discpline and organization the German football clubs resumed training on Monday -
players split in small groups or pairs and kept at a safe distance amid strict measures to contain the spread of Covid-19
The Bundesliga and Bundesliga ii football will resume in May.
The Germans have done their calculations that around 240 essential personnel are required to put on an individual league game, from players to coaching staff to officiating crew to medical staff and beyond. The league has set up a task force to develop a logistical plan for putting on games safely, while another works on developing a “hygiene plan” to allow for repeated congregating during training and matches, also devising a plan for if someone involved tests positive.
This is of course realistic to Germany and can only have admiring glances to the way they have handled the situation both football but more importantly being a country that has taken health care with respect and not back health workers like they do here in UK with.
So I don't see a realistic time frame soon for the same in UK of top level football restarting. As the health care , discpline , culture and situation is entirely different to being a safe space to play football , even behind closed doors.
And I think it highlights a lot the merits of discipline and forward planning. Fair play to Germany .
I think the German authorities should be concentrating on keeping their people well and alive rather than thinking about playing football. It may be better in Germany than in the UK, but the situation is getting increasingly worse.
(https://i.ibb.co/SVzD9Vd/92614849-10158654012009750-6479686244577050624-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SVzD9Vd)
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 09, 2020, 10:18:39 AM
The point here isn't a debate about keeping people alive which I think you'll find every authority is actually trying their best to do . Germany , UK or other nations. It's important lives are saved of course.
The point to the post is the health care 'allows' the chance for sport in Germany to take place.
That can't be said for the England and the football had to take a back step.
I don't think the German Government will put people's lives at risk or strain their services just to play sports .
However if any big league in Europe can put on football then it's the German nation.
England at this time aren't equipped and in comparison Germany are.
Germany and its approach to its people are a very different mentality, example, they know for a fact that these testing kits are vital to preventing deaths and stopping infection, as much as possible, the Germans have been stockpiling them for years in the eventuality and reality that a crisis such as a Pandemic will hit the planet at some point, the UK have done nothing, Germany in comparison to the UK are a very Socialist Democratic country, people come first, I worked there for a while and was amazed at the difference and the pride in that difference.
Post by: Villan82 on April 09, 2020, 10:51:17 AM
And this latest ‘plan’ would have the best part of 200-300 people all sharing facilities over the course of each match day !
Surely this can only happen when the virus has been completely eradicated?
The players should refuse to put themselves in such danger.
Post by: frank black on April 09, 2020, 10:56:26 AM
The point here isn't a debate about keeping people alive which I think you'll find every authority is actually trying their best to do . Germany , UK or other nations. It's important lives are saved of course.
The point to the post is the health care 'allows' the chance for sport in Germany to take place.
That can't be said for the England and the football had to take a back step.
I don't think the German Government will put people's lives at risk or strain their services just to play sports .
However if any big league in Europe can put on football then it's the German nation.
England at this time aren't equipped and in comparison Germany are.
Germany and its approach to its people are a very different mentality, example, they know for a fact that these testing kits are vital to preventing deaths and stopping infection, as much as possible, the Germans have been stockpiling them for years in the eventuality and reality that a crisis such as a Pandemic will hit the planet at some point, the UK have done nothing, Germany in comparison to the UK are a very Socialist Democratic country, people come first, I worked there for a while and was amazed at the difference and the pride in that difference.
You can’t stockpile an unknown virus test kit. They are market leaders with many companies setup to produce this sort of thing and that’s why they have more than us. They have not stockpiled or been any more prepared, they have however reacted quicker.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 09, 2020, 11:36:32 AM
The point here isn't a debate about keeping people alive which I think you'll find every authority is actually trying their best to do . Germany , UK or other nations. It's important lives are saved of course.
The point to the post is the health care 'allows' the chance for sport in Germany to take place.
That can't be said for the England and the football had to take a back step.
I don't think the German Government will put people's lives at risk or strain their services just to play sports .
However if any big league in Europe can put on football then it's the German nation.
England at this time aren't equipped and in comparison Germany are.
Germany and its approach to its people are a very different mentality, example, they know for a fact that these testing kits are vital to preventing deaths and stopping infection, as much as possible, the Germans have been stockpiling them for years in the eventuality and reality that a crisis such as a Pandemic will hit the planet at some point, the UK have done nothing, Germany in comparison to the UK are a very Socialist Democratic country, people come first, I worked there for a while and was amazed at the difference and the pride in that difference.
You can’t stockpile an unknown virus test kit. They are market leaders with many companies setup to produce this sort of thing and that’s why they have more than us. They have not stockpiled or been any more prepared, they have however reacted quicker.
I'm guessing the kit mostly consists of sterilised swabs and containers. Those could be stockpiled. It would be the testing after the samples are taken that would be unique to the situations.
Apparently the nasal swab is very invasive going right up into the cavity at the back and causes nosebleeds etc.
Post by: sid1964 on April 09, 2020, 12:15:41 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 09, 2020, 12:32:14 PM
So if most companies start back to work during May / June - do you have the right as an employee to refuse to go back to work for fear of catching the virus? if you do then what would happen to you - could you be sacked - have to go off sick and receive SSP only
the question is probably best put in the main Corona thread rather the Football specific one. I suspect it would depend on the government guidelines still. If you haven't had it, there is still no cures but are one of the ones specifically at very High Risk, then I'm sure the company will need to ensure some level of care and caution. However there are still all sorts of new concerns and "new norms" to be decided for the foreseeable as now the disease is out there, we don't know what new mutations will bring and if/ when a cure/vaccine will be available.
If it is like smallpox and you can only catch it once, then in 10 years time it will be like nothing as happened, conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers will be out in force and kids will get a shot called something like MMR-Covid. However if it is like flu /colds and we have "seasons" and various versions each year, then it will be turned into that, society will "cope" with the additional deaths and we will be at that "normal".
Post by: Brassneck on April 09, 2020, 12:54:18 PM
More likely, a ban on public gatherings would remain in order to limit the spread to a minimum.
Post by: frank black on April 09, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
If they are planning on going back to work, opening shopping centres etc then I see no difference with having crowds at football matches. Realistically, you won't come in contact with 40,000 others at a game - You'd only come in contact with the same amount of people as you would if you visited a shopping centre.
More likely, a ban on public gatherings would remain in order to limit the spread to a minimum.
I think being crammed into a football stadium is a big difference to a supermarket that will employ social distancing.
Post by: Richard E on April 09, 2020, 02:02:40 PM
So if most companies start back to work during May / June - do you have the right as an employee to refuse to go back to work for fear of catching the virus? if you do then what would happen to you - could you be sacked - have to go off sick and receive SSP only
Unless you were actually ill or following Government guidance that you should self-isolate you would not be entitled to SSP.
It is automatic unfair dismissal to dismiss someone if the reason or principal reason is that "...in circumstances of danger which the employee reasonably believed to be serious and imminent and which he could not reasonably have been expected to avert, he...(while the danger persisted) refused to return to his place of work."
This would potentially make it unfair for an employer to dismiss someone in the circumstances your described but it is a moot point until this reaches Tribunals. If the Government is no longer advising against attending work and if the employer was taking suitable precautions it is questionable whether the employee could say that their belief that there was a serious and imminent danger was reasonable.
Post by: Brassneck on April 09, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
If they are planning on going back to work, opening shopping centres etc then I see no difference with having crowds at football matches. Realistically, you won't come in contact with 40,000 others at a game - You'd only come in contact with the same amount of people as you would if you visited a shopping centre.
More likely, a ban on public gatherings would remain in order to limit the spread to a minimum.
I think being crammed into a football stadium is a big difference to a supermarket that will employ social distancing.
Yeah - I was on about shopping centres with multiple shops, coffee shops, etc. You would assume they would re-open when people start back to work.
Post by: frank black on April 09, 2020, 02:34:29 PM
If they are planning on going back to work, opening shopping centres etc then I see no difference with having crowds at football matches. Realistically, you won't come in contact with 40,000 others at a game - You'd only come in contact with the same amount of people as you would if you visited a shopping centre.
More likely, a ban on public gatherings would remain in order to limit the spread to a minimum.
I think being crammed into a football stadium is a big difference to a supermarket that will employ social distancing.
Yeah - I was on about shopping centres with multiple shops, coffee shops, etc. You would assume they would re-open when people start back to work.
They will probably restrict numbers allowed into shopping centres. This is part of the so called exit strategy, which they’ve yet to agree what it looks like. No doubt it was easier to lockdown than it will be to reopen everything.
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on April 09, 2020, 04:04:59 PM
If they are planning on going back to work, opening shopping centres etc then I see no difference with having crowds at football matches. Realistically, you won't come in contact with 40,000 others at a game - You'd only come in contact with the same amount of people as you would if you visited a shopping centre.I take it, you haven't been in the North Stand Upper at Half Time then?
More likely, a ban on public gatherings would remain in order to limit the spread to a minimum.
Post by: LeeB on April 09, 2020, 04:17:07 PM
If they are planning on going back to work, opening shopping centres etc then I see no difference with having crowds at football matches. Realistically, you won't come in contact with 40,000 others at a game - You'd only come in contact with the same amount of people as you would if you visited a shopping centre.I take it, you haven't been in the North Stand Upper at Half Time then?
More likely, a ban on public gatherings would remain in order to limit the spread to a minimum.
The thing is, you don't go to the shops and park yourself potentially right next to a virus carrier for an hour and a half.
Post by: Louzie0 on April 09, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
UTV!
Post by: Brassneck on April 09, 2020, 05:02:34 PM
If they are planning on going back to work, opening shopping centres etc then I see no difference with having crowds at football matches. Realistically, you won't come in contact with 40,000 others at a game - You'd only come in contact with the same amount of people as you would if you visited a shopping centre.I take it, you haven't been in the North Stand Upper at Half Time then?
More likely, a ban on public gatherings would remain in order to limit the spread to a minimum.
Not for about 40 years, no.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 09, 2020, 06:25:32 PM
Quote
The FA Council has today ratified the decision to conclude the 2019-20 season across Steps 3-7 of the National League System, Tiers 3 to 7 of the women’s football pyramid and the wider grassroots game.
Since the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic, we have been working collaboratively with the leagues within the National League System, the Women’s Football Board, the Women’s Football Conference and the wider grassroots game to identify the most appropriate way to conclude the 2019-20 season at each level.
The request to end the 2019-20 season was taken to the FA Council by the representatives of the relevant committees having been fully supported by the FA Board.
The FA Council’s vote today was overwhelmingly in favour of ratifying the decision.
http://www.thefa.com/news/2020/apr/09/fa-council-statement-090420
Post by: Towser on April 09, 2020, 06:52:05 PM
Keep safe yourself, Vil I An.
UTV!
And your good self ! Stay safe.
One more from me :
#playerstogether
Premier League stars across the country at all different clubs have come together to set up an initiative called 'Players Together', which will help the NHS in the fight against the coronavirus pandemic.
The Aston Villa players who have publically stated they are part of the premier league players initiative to pledge millions of pounds to support the NHS are
Eni Aluko Aston Villa women's sporting director.
Tyrone Mings
Tom Heaton
Ezri Konsa
John McGinn
Trezeguet
Applause to them. It's appreciated that players across clubs are backing this.
I guess Grealish is keeping low just because he doesn't want to look more stupid and hasn't been reported as yet but I like to think our captain is donating part of his money to the cause .
Up the villa . And great to see players at our club and other premier league players giving at this time
Jack has Posted the #Playerstogether graphic, along with McGinn, Mings, Heaton, Konza, Trez, Riena, Jota, Elghazi, Wesley, Nakamba, Hause, Nyland, Hourihane, Davis, Drinkwater, Elmo, these are just the ones I have seen
Post by: chrisw1 on April 09, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Good, good. Now same for top 3 leagues would be just perfect.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 09, 2020, 06:53:39 PM
QuoteThe FA Council has today ratified the decision to conclude the 2019-20 season across Steps 3-7 of the National League System, Tiers 3 to 7 of the women’s football pyramid and the wider grassroots game.
Since the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic, we have been working collaboratively with the leagues within the National League System, the Women’s Football Board, the Women’s Football Conference and the wider grassroots game to identify the most appropriate way to conclude the 2019-20 season at each level.
The request to end the 2019-20 season was taken to the FA Council by the representatives of the relevant committees having been fully supported by the FA Board.
The FA Council’s vote today was overwhelmingly in favour of ratifying the decision.
http://www.thefa.com/news/2020/apr/09/fa-council-statement-090420
If you've got a pyramid league structure then surely what's good at one end has to be good at the other.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 09, 2020, 06:55:28 PM
So it's either play them by hook or by crook or void them. Please, please be the latter.
Post by: Brassneck on April 09, 2020, 07:06:40 PM
At the very least this should knock on the head any notion of a points per match outcome.
So it's either play them by hook or by crook or void them. Please, please be the latter.
I agree but as a team who would suffer most from playing out the remaining games in empty stadiums, I would argue that there should be no relegation this season.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 09, 2020, 07:16:57 PM
I would argue that too, but if we play the games then there's no chance of that. Lets face it, from a football perspective we were on a terrible run and the break at that moment was probably an advantage to us. If we do play the games Smith just needs to make sure we are more up for it than our relegation rivals.At the very least this should knock on the head any notion of a points per match outcome.
So it's either play them by hook or by crook or void them. Please, please be the latter.
I agree but as a team who would suffer most from playing out the remaining games in empty stadiums, I would argue that there should be no relegation this season.
Post by: OzVilla on April 09, 2020, 07:27:26 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 09, 2020, 07:48:57 PM
They have set a precedent here which will be good news for our Legal Case if it ever comes to that.QuoteThe FA Council has today ratified the decision to conclude the 2019-20 season across Steps 3-7 of the National League System, Tiers 3 to 7 of the women’s football pyramid and the wider grassroots game.
Since the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic, we have been working collaboratively with the leagues within the National League System, the Women’s Football Board, the Women’s Football Conference and the wider grassroots game to identify the most appropriate way to conclude the 2019-20 season at each level.
The request to end the 2019-20 season was taken to the FA Council by the representatives of the relevant committees having been fully supported by the FA Board.
The FA Council’s vote today was overwhelmingly in favour of ratifying the decision.
http://www.thefa.com/news/2020/apr/09/fa-council-statement-090420
If you've got a pyramid league structure then surely what's good at one end has to be good at the other.
Post by: David_Nab on April 09, 2020, 09:19:45 PM
As for Villa we might lose home advantage but I wonder how many teams are going to perform at all when they have nothing to play for with no fans to generate an atmosphere or for them to perform in front of.I can Image Liverpool winning 2 games to win league will be there for taking the rest of season ( even in normal times this would likely have been the case ) but I think with no fans it will be worse.
I also worry that if they start the season again and just one team gets a player effected what the hell is the plan then ?
Post by: old man villa fan on April 09, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
I also worry that if they start the season again and just one team gets a player effected what the hell is the plan then ?
Covid-19 testing will be the new drug testing but rather than testing a selection of players, they will have to test everybody at the clubs. Will it be like a blood test for drink driving with a club having half the test samples and the independent tester having the other half. Clubs in trouble at the bottom will be throwing sickies so as not to play games. This season is not going to be completed, is it.
Post by: PeterWithe on April 09, 2020, 10:13:18 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 09, 2020, 10:37:02 PM
Tom Ross seems to be suggesting he has the inside track that EFL will go back and play all remaining games over a 46 day period. But he’s probably not as well connected as he might have been.
Alan Nixon* from the S*n tweeted out a link to that effect this evening. I obviously didn't click on it so don't know the details.
*I only follow him because his Championship predictions once netted me £333 from a £4 stake!
Post by: brentastonb6 on April 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Tom Ross seems to be suggesting he has the inside track that EFL will go back and play all remaining games over a 46 day period. But he’s probably not as well connected as he might have been.
Alan Nixon* from the S*n tweeted out a link to that effect this evening. I obviously didn't click on it so don't know the details.
*I only follow him because his Championship predictions once netted me £333 from a £4 stake!
The quote on the BBC refers to the EFL preparing for the season to be finished behind closed doors and requiring 56 days to complete the season.
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2020, 12:46:13 AM
Post by: tony scott on April 10, 2020, 03:21:23 AM
Post by: algy on April 10, 2020, 07:51:04 AM
Tom Ross seems to be suggesting he has the inside track that EFL will go back and play all remaining games over a 46 day period. But he’s probably not as well connected as he might have been.If they are going to try to finish the season, I think that's the only realistic way of doing it. In Australia they were on about a 'rugby island' - basically all going to an uninhabited island, everyone covid-tested and monitored, then play out the games in complete isolation. I'm assuming it's something along those lines they're suggesting.
It doesn't work in Villa's favour really, but it's probably the fairest solution available of completing the season. Certainly better than in Scotland where Partick Thistle could be relegated with a game in hand and less than 3pts from safety, much like ourselves.
I'd be inclined to support it as long as some of the revenue was directed towards helping clubs in the lower leagues & women's game pay unavoidable bills.
Post by: aev on April 10, 2020, 08:22:19 AM
Post by: Nev on April 10, 2020, 08:24:56 AM
Post by: Richard E on April 10, 2020, 08:34:48 AM
It would become a completely different competition and would be incomparable with what went before.
Would we be less crap in that case?
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 10, 2020, 08:43:26 AM
Post by: aev on April 10, 2020, 08:45:34 AM
The National League has advised clubs in its three divisions to vote in favour of ending the regular season without playing games that were scheduled up until 25 April and, if an agreement is reached, member clubs will be expected to decide each team’s final position through further polls, provoking bewilderment among some club officials. The league contacted its clubs after a board meeting on Thursday.
Post by: mr underhill on April 10, 2020, 09:07:49 AM
Post by: Richard E on April 10, 2020, 09:24:13 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on April 10, 2020, 09:29:56 AM
It would mean us at least having the benefit of our better home form and more home games left.
Post by: PeterWithe on April 10, 2020, 09:30:59 AM
I really find it pretty distasteful that football is continuing to scramble for ideas to finish the season, whilst the world is in a crisis.
I’m sticking with my view that they are preparing the ground for their legal position of ‘we considered every eventuality, however absurd and ruled them all out as impractical, season over’
Post by: aev on April 10, 2020, 09:40:09 AM
Not sure if this has been asked before, but it Points Averages were used to determine finishing positions in the event of league abandonment, would ours improve if you averaged the home and away points separately, then multiplied them by the respective home and away games left?
It would mean us at least having the benefit of our better home form and more home games left.
Think we would still be in the bottom 3.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 10, 2020, 09:44:36 AM
Report in the Telegraph today about how Brentford could soon have two grounds and no football to play in either of them.
Further down the pyramid these days, but I think York City are about there already.
Post by: aev on April 10, 2020, 09:46:35 AM
Problem is playing it at some stage isn’t really finishing the “season”. Momentum, injuries, lack of crowds, physical and mental fatigue will all be changed to such an extent that all you are really doing is playing 2 different competitions.
Did Tottenham de register Kane- he could end up coming back and get Tottenham into the greedy league, would this be fair as wasn’t he out for the season?
Too many clubs will be affected by arbitrary decisions.
And of course, none of this is even has considered the grimness of the situation we are all living under.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on April 10, 2020, 10:07:01 AM
Yep by my calculationNot sure if this has been asked before, but it Points Averages were used to determine finishing positions in the event of league abandonment, would ours improve if you averaged the home and away points separately, then multiplied them by the respective home and away games left?
It would mean us at least having the benefit of our better home form and more home games left.
Think we would still be in the bottom 3.
=16 Bournemouth + Watford with 35.74
18th West Ham with 35.55
19th Villa with 34.98
20th Norwich with 27.95
Post by: Neil Hawkes on April 10, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
This playing behind closed doors bollox - I take it everyone is aware how much footballers spit?
22 players infected after 10 mins, (if anyone is carrying the virus)
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 10, 2020, 10:33:45 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 11:15:11 AM
They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
They're not talking about "at the moment", they're talking about some point in the future when the virus is under control.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on April 10, 2020, 11:16:09 AM
Yep by my calculationNot sure if this has been asked before, but it Points Averages were used to determine finishing positions in the event of league abandonment, would ours improve if you averaged the home and away points separately, then multiplied them by the respective home and away games left?
It would mean us at least having the benefit of our better home form and more home games left.
Think we would still be in the bottom 3.
=16 Bournemouth + Watford with 35.74
18th West Ham with 35.55
19th Villa with 34.98
20th Norwich with 27.95
Cheers both. Drat and double drat.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 10, 2020, 11:21:22 AM
They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
Also, on average each week, how many players get carried off with serious injuries that require going to hospital? Who is going to treat them and what about the risk of being taken into hospital. Footballers' current insurance covering that, doubt it.
This is not going to work, is it.
Either the situation regarding the virus improves and there is sufficient time to play the games under the same conditions as before the break and not impact on next season or you cancel the season and rewind to how things were at the start of 2019/20 season.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 11:28:42 AM
They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
Also, on average each week, how many players get carried off with serious injuries that require going to hospital? Who is going to treat them and what about the risk of being taken into hospital. Footballers' current insurance covering that, doubt it.
This is not going to work, is it.
Either the situation regarding the virus improves and there is sufficient time to play the games under the same conditions as before the break and not impact on next season or you cancel the season and rewind to how things were at the start of 2019/20 season.
I think it's going to be played out whatever. They've probably already held talks with the Government. There's too much at stake to void it.
I would argue that if the same conditions cannot be met, then relegation should not take place this season. I even think that the break has given certain teams an unfair advantage (Leeds, Wolves for example).
We also have to factor in FA Cup & European competitions as they will need to be played as well.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 10, 2020, 11:56:19 AM
They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
Also, on average each week, how many players get carried off with serious injuries that require going to hospital? Who is going to treat them and what about the risk of being taken into hospital. Footballers' current insurance covering that, doubt it.
This is not going to work, is it.
Either the situation regarding the virus improves and there is sufficient time to play the games under the same conditions as before the break and not impact on next season or you cancel the season and rewind to how things were at the start of 2019/20 season.
I think it's going to be played out whatever. They've probably already held talks with the Government. There's too much at stake to void it.
I would argue that if the same conditions cannot be met, then relegation should not take place this season. I even think that the break has given certain teams an unfair advantage (Leeds, Wolves for example).
We also have to factor in FA Cup & European competitions as they will need to be played as well.
I keep on hearing that there is too much at stake to void it but I have not seen an honest assessment of the pros and cons of voiding it. All I have seen is self-interest reaction. Yes, I will own up, at this point in time I want the season cancelled as it would suit Villa. However, if it was proved that postponing the season until it is safe to continue works for everybody, I would accept it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 10, 2020, 11:59:00 AM
They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
They're not talking about "at the moment", they're talking about some point in the future when the virus is under control.
They're talking about playing games this summer. The deluded twats. My post was in response to one about playing behind closed doors. Why would they be playing behind closed doors if the virus was under control.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 12:01:16 PM
They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
Also, on average each week, how many players get carried off with serious injuries that require going to hospital? Who is going to treat them and what about the risk of being taken into hospital. Footballers' current insurance covering that, doubt it.
This is not going to work, is it.
Either the situation regarding the virus improves and there is sufficient time to play the games under the same conditions as before the break and not impact on next season or you cancel the season and rewind to how things were at the start of 2019/20 season.
I think it's going to be played out whatever. They've probably already held talks with the Government. There's too much at stake to void it.
I would argue that if the same conditions cannot be met, then relegation should not take place this season. I even think that the break has given certain teams an unfair advantage (Leeds, Wolves for example).
We also have to factor in FA Cup & European competitions as they will need to be played as well.
I keep on hearing that there is too much at stake to void it but I have not seen an honest assessment of the pros and cons of voiding it. All I have seen is self-interest reaction. Yes, I will own up, at this point in time I want the season cancelled as it would suit Villa. However, if it was proved that postponing the season until it is safe to continue works for everybody, I would accept it.
Common sense alone should tell you that if most clubs make losses when 100 of the season is played then those losses are going to be a lot higher if only 75% is played.
Burnley have gone public and stated that they will be insolvent by August without any income. In the EFL, the impact is going to be even greater.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 12:03:33 PM
They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
They're not talking about "at the moment", they're talking about some point in the future when the virus is under control.
They're talking about playing games this summer. The deluded twats. My post was in response to one about playing behind closed doors. Why would they be playing behind closed doors if the virus was under control.
Simple - To minimize the risk of a 2nd outbreak. It is widely expected that people will be back at work by July/August. Not sure why you think footballers are different?
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 10, 2020, 12:06:49 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 12:12:47 PM
Because most people's works don't have to have medical staff on hand. Footballers do. We need all the medical staff we can get for helping fight the virus, even if some people are back at work.
If there are still large numbers in hospital then I agree with you. However, it is expected that in 3 months time, the numbers will be way down (that is the purpose of us isolating at present).
I don't think anyone would support medical staff being used at football games when they can be deployed to help save lives. We have to understand and accept that this is a very temporary situation and that we will be moving back towards normality at some point sooner rather than later.
If it is safe to go back to work, it will be safe to play behind closed doors. Obviously, if the NHS are still stretched then it won't be safe to go back to work.
Post by: aev on April 10, 2020, 12:27:47 PM
Because most people's works don't have to have medical staff on hand. Footballers do. We need all the medical staff we can get for helping fight the virus, even if some people are back at work.
If there are still large numbers in hospital then I agree with you. However, it is expected that in 3 months time, the numbers will be way down (that is the purpose of us isolating at present).
I don't think anyone would support medical staff being used at football games when they can be deployed to help save lives. We have to understand and accept that this is a very temporary situation and that we will be moving back towards normality at some point sooner rather than later.
If it is safe to go back to work, it will be safe to play behind closed doors. Obviously, if the NHS are still stretched then it won't be safe to go back to work.
“Very temporary”?
The peak may well be sooner rather than later, but this won’t mean that scores of people won’t be dying each day.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 12:55:16 PM
Because most people's works don't have to have medical staff on hand. Footballers do. We need all the medical staff we can get for helping fight the virus, even if some people are back at work.
If there are still large numbers in hospital then I agree with you. However, it is expected that in 3 months time, the numbers will be way down (that is the purpose of us isolating at present).
I don't think anyone would support medical staff being used at football games when they can be deployed to help save lives. We have to understand and accept that this is a very temporary situation and that we will be moving back towards normality at some point sooner rather than later.
If it is safe to go back to work, it will be safe to play behind closed doors. Obviously, if the NHS are still stretched then it won't be safe to go back to work.
“Very temporary”?
The peak may well be sooner rather than later, but this won’t mean that scores of people won’t be dying each day.
If lock down is adhered to, we should soon pass the situation where scores are dying each day. The biggest task will be ensuring we don't face a fresh outbreak. This is why I don't envisage crowds at football games for long time (certainly well into next season).
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2020, 01:02:00 PM
Completely safe means close to full immunity and without a vaccine that is many months away.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on April 10, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Post by: aev on April 10, 2020, 01:14:01 PM
Ultimately, Mother Nature will continue to call the shots, despite any human self-interest there is, us Villa fans, Sky, Liverpool, etc etc...
This is football we are talking about. Self interest appears to be part of its DNA.
Post by: wolfman999 on April 10, 2020, 02:25:50 PM
Please don't take this as being insensitive and I fully understand there are many more important things to worry about at present.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on April 10, 2020, 02:28:00 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2020, 02:42:18 PM
German Bundesliga warning that all games could be behind closed doors until 2021!
It's more likely than not I'm afraid.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 10, 2020, 02:58:41 PM
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2020, 03:03:47 PM
It'll prove, as if it wasn't already known, that the game is for the armchair Sky fan and not the supporters.
Post by: olaftab on April 10, 2020, 03:06:09 PM
A “virus under control” is an oxy-moron. Only control is a vaccine.They have to have medical staff at every game, since Muamba collapsed on the pitch. Anyone think the best use for medical staff at the moment is keeping an eye on football?
They're not talking about "at the moment", they're talking about some point in the future when the virus is under control.
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2020, 03:26:06 PM
Post by: olaftab on April 10, 2020, 03:30:07 PM
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2020, 03:34:24 PM
Without wishing to appear crass at this difficult time but has any thing been said as to how season ticket holders at all clubs, not just ours,will be handled. If the season is just ended, ST holders and those who have bought match tickets would need to be reimbursed. If a discount is given on next seasons ST purchase, this would obviously have an effect on clubs revenue.
Please don't take this as being insensitive and I fully understand there are many more important things to worry about at present.
It's not insensitive, and for a lot of people I'm sure the money would be very useful about now.
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2020, 05:15:23 PM
Post by: CT on April 10, 2020, 06:06:58 PM
CGI crowds and 'canned' noise, anyone?
SKY have been using "canned" crowd noise for a while now.
Post by: john2710 on April 10, 2020, 06:16:19 PM
I can't see mass gatherings being permitted next season, unless they find some viral treatment that significantly minimises the symptoms.
Many won't have money for season tickets, many more won't take the risk. If we're waiting for a vaccine it's 2021-2022 season before it will be safe to go to matches again.
How many overseas will pay to watch football without an atmosphere? The whole model doesn't work if there's no crowd.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 07:05:26 PM
They will play out the season in June / July behind closed doors. That's 8-10 weeks away. Players will train in camps where they are locked in.
I can't see mass gatherings being permitted next season, unless they find some viral treatment that significantly minimises the symptoms.
Many won't have money for season tickets, many more won't take the risk. If we're waiting for a vaccine it's 2021-2022 season before it will be safe to go to matches again.
How many overseas will pay to watch football without an atmosphere? The whole model doesn't work if there's no crowd.
It's making the best out of a bad job - There is no other alternative.
At least if we get relegated, there's a chance of us being back up by the time crowds re-appear.
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2020, 07:56:01 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 10, 2020, 08:22:44 PM
The point here isn't a debate about keeping people alive which I think you'll find every authority is actually trying their best to do . Germany , UK or other nations. It's important lives are saved of course.
The point to the post is the health care 'allows' the chance for sport in Germany to take place.
That can't be said for the England and the football had to take a back step.
I don't think the German Government will put people's lives at risk or strain their services just to play sports .
However if any big league in Europe can put on football then it's the German nation.
England at this time aren't equipped and in comparison Germany are.
Germany and its approach to its people are a very different mentality, example, they know for a fact that these testing kits are vital to preventing deaths and stopping infection, as much as possible, the Germans have been stockpiling them for years in the eventuality and reality that a crisis such as a Pandemic will hit the planet at some point, the UK have done nothing, Germany in comparison to the UK are a very Socialist Democratic country, people come first, I worked there for a while and was amazed at the difference and the pride in that difference.
You can’t stockpile an unknown virus test kit. They are market leaders with many companies setup to produce this sort of thing and that’s why they have more than us. They have not stockpiled or been any more prepared, they have however reacted quicker.
I'm guessing the kit mostly consists of sterilised swabs and containers. Those could be stockpiled. It would be the testing after the samples are taken that would be unique to the situations.
Apparently the nasal swab is very invasive going right up into the cavity at the back and causes nosebleeds etc.
When the source of the quote comes from somebody called Jens Spahn, saying they had been stockpiling test for the Sars-Cov-2 Virus, pretty sure he means Coronavirus then you can only take it as said, on the other hand he could also mean they have been stockpiling in some way a bare bones kit to be converted as and when necessary, just as you say, point is they haven't been sitting around on there big ends, knowing at some point this was coming down the road because its been predicted now for years, in terms of the likelihood of a Pandemic, they prepared, we did nothing, as of today we have the highest death rate in Europe higher than Spain and Italy for one day, its still climbing, we still haven't got a proper set up for mass testing capability, scandalous.
Post by: aev on April 10, 2020, 09:21:58 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 09:39:19 PM
I wouldn't jump the gun with predictions like that.
If being the operative word. However, if pushed, I'd struggle to find 2 teams (in addition to Norwich) who will finish below us.
Personally, I think we have a chance but less of a chance than the other teams around us given our recent form, appalling defensive frailties and the 3 point (allowing for goal difference) deficit.
Post by: Richard E on April 10, 2020, 09:42:07 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 10, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
Scotland now looking at 2 up and no relegation according to the Giardoan.
Think this has to be the way to go for everybody, the sooner we draw a line under this season, for completely unforeseen circumstances, put it behind us, sooner we can start to think positive and move on, look forward to next season.
Villa can than look to this season has being a learning curve, put right the wrong and have a much better season next time out.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 10, 2020, 09:48:41 PM
Our recent form is excellent- we haven’t lost for a month.
They're you go then, things are looking up.
Post by: Villan82 on April 10, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
Scotland now looking at 2 up and no relegation according to the Giardoan.
Think this has to be the way to go for everybody, the sooner we draw a line under this season, for completely unforeseen circumstances, put it behind us, sooner we can start to think positive and move on, look forward to next season.
Villa can than look to this season has being a learning curve, put right the wrong and have a much better season next time out.
Well said.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 10, 2020, 09:53:13 PM
Say you can't start playing again till next Spring? You may as well just carry on from where we are now and finish as normal.
Say you can't start play again until August/September, you could look at finishing the season then changing to a summer season for the next couple of years until the Qatar World Cup is out of the way.
In the, what appears to me unlikely, event that we can begin play in June or July, you might have to consider other ways of concluding this season.
But limiting your options at the moment when you have no idea when play can recommence seems as daft as looking to book a holiday this summer, and I don't know anyone who is doing that.
Just wait until you know what timescale we are looking at before rushing into any decision which can't be undone.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2020, 09:56:05 PM
I wouldn't jump the gun with predictions like that.
If being the operative word. However, if pushed, I'd struggle to find 2 teams (in addition to Norwich) who will finish below us.
Personally, I think we have a chance but less of a chance than the other teams around us given our recent form, appalling defensive frailties and the 3 point (allowing for goal difference) deficit.
There's at least half a dozen teams you can say that about at different times this season.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 10:07:48 PM
I wouldn't jump the gun with predictions like that.
If being the operative word. However, if pushed, I'd struggle to find 2 teams (in addition to Norwich) who will finish below us.
Personally, I think we have a chance but less of a chance than the other teams around us given our recent form, appalling defensive frailties and the 3 point (allowing for goal difference) deficit.
There's at least half a dozen teams you can say that about at different times this season.
Yes - Watford & West Ham both have had theirs but seem to have come out of it. We seem to have dipped at just the wrong time.
Post by: Legion on April 10, 2020, 10:15:42 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2020, 10:15:44 PM
I wouldn't jump the gun with predictions like that.
If being the operative word. However, if pushed, I'd struggle to find 2 teams (in addition to Norwich) who will finish below us.
Personally, I think we have a chance but less of a chance than the other teams around us given our recent form, appalling defensive frailties and the 3 point (allowing for goal difference) deficit.
There's at least half a dozen teams you can say that about at different times this season.
Yes - Watford & West Ham both have had theirs but seem to have come out of it. We seem to have dipped at just the wrong time.
And that's the reason why it would be grossly unfair to end the season now, or to do anything that would penalise us more than any other club.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 10:23:29 PM
Post by: Damo70 on April 10, 2020, 10:33:40 PM
Post by: The Moose on April 10, 2020, 10:36:43 PM
Toss a coin? You could finish the season in a couple of hours.
Post by: Brassneck on April 10, 2020, 11:03:20 PM
Whatever good or bad form any particular team was in will have gone out of the window by now. It would be a struggle for most players, coaches and fans to remember their teams last five results. If the restart of football meant playing behind closed doors I presume it would still be televised via SKY live games and MOTD/Quest highlights. Games behind closed doors with no atmosphere are very dull to watch on TV but after going cold turkey for so long there would be a demand for any televised game even behind closed doors.
Of course it won't automatically have gone. Take Sunderland for example. They had an entire summer then a pre-season and still managed to get relegated again. It happens all the time and it's just as possible that we will continue as we left off.
Post by: Drummond on April 11, 2020, 01:30:12 AM
Here's an idea though. Why not roll the season back to the last time all clubs had played the same number of games?
That would take us back to late February.
So us and Bournemouth would be safe and Watford and West Ham would be down?
Post by: ROBBO on April 11, 2020, 01:46:27 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 09:13:12 AM
Australia is faring well compared to most for example there were only thirteen new cases reported yesterday in Victoria but the Premier of the state has said the lockdown will not be over in weeks but months so I can't possibly see how football can resume before September-October in Britain with all the problems you are having.
I've always had a duration of 12 weeks (lockdown) in my mind. This is based on nothing at all. However, working on that, it would take us to the last week of May.
At that point, I envisaged a limited return to normality with safe distancing etc still being carried out.
I can't see any justification in allowing footballers to start back at that point. However, if offices, shops, factories etc are re-opened then I'm sure they would argue that footballers can return to work. From that point, they would need 3 - 4 weeks mini pre-season. My thinking is July at the earliest for actual games to begin. From that point, they would need to finish the leagues plus cup competitions and then go straight into the following season. It is doable on paper but depends entirely on being free from lockdown by June.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 11, 2020, 09:34:16 AM
I don't see the rush to come to a decision. What you can do depends on when you can start playing again.
Agreed.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 11, 2020, 12:09:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 11, 2020, 12:13:39 PM
If there is any competitive football before August, I'll eat my hat.
Belarussian and Nicaraguan Leagues, mate.
Get eating.
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2020, 12:16:25 PM
If there is any competitive football before August, I'll eat my hat.
Belarussian and Nicaraguan Leagues, mate.
Get eating.
Bhutan too.
Post by: OCD on April 11, 2020, 12:33:33 PM
I don't care what they do. Relegation, survival, what does it matter. Football will come back and frankly I hope there isn't a pile of court cases to resolve it (sorry Richard).
Here's an idea though. Why not roll the season back to the last time all clubs had played the same number of games?
That would take us back to late February.
So us and Bournemouth would be safe and Watford and West Ham would be down?
Right away that invites court cases from West Ham and Watford.
Realistically all we can do is wait and see how soon it is that football can realistically be played behind closed doors.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2020, 04:22:41 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 04:45:34 PM
If they try and complete the season behind closed doors, I hope we do everything we can to stop it through the courts.
The sensible thing is to complete it and most clubs would want that. What we have to do is ensure that no relegations take place and ask other clubs to support this. As Dave said a few posts above as well as several others - It can't be completed fairly now.
I've no problem with the season being completed behind closed doors and I support the notion. However, it cannot possibly allow for relegations to take place in those circumstances.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 11, 2020, 05:29:38 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 05:44:59 PM
It makes no sense to complete the season and then not have relegation.
Why doesn’t it?
Liverpool get to win the title they deserve, European qualification gets decided and the clubs get the tv money they so desperately need.
There is no fair way to decide relegation if we go behind closed doors so we either let it go for the sake of achieving all the above or we unfairly relegate teams.
For me it makes perfect sense.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 11, 2020, 05:45:04 PM
If there is any competitive football before August, I'll eat my hat.
Belarussian and Nicaraguan Leagues, mate.
Get eating.
Damn you and your facts. Pass me the salt and pepper.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 11, 2020, 06:07:08 PM
It makes no sense to complete the season and then not have relegation.
Why doesn’t it?
Liverpool get to win the title they deserve, European qualification gets decided and the clubs get the tv money they so desperately need.
There is no fair way to decide relegation if we go behind closed doors so we either let it go for the sake of achieving all the above or we unfairly relegate teams.
For me it makes perfect sense.
How does it make sense to apply the rewards associated to finishing in a particular place (i.e. being champions, qualifying for Europe) and then at the same not apply the equivalent consequences for finishing in the bottom three? If they finish the season, and I don’t think they should, then it has to be treated as a fully completed season.
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 06:12:31 PM
It makes no sense to complete the season and then not have relegation.
Why doesn’t it?
Liverpool get to win the title they deserve, European qualification gets decided and the clubs get the tv money they so desperately need.
There is no fair way to decide relegation if we go behind closed doors so we either let it go for the sake of achieving all the above or we unfairly relegate teams.
For me it makes perfect sense.
How does it make sense to apply the rewards associated to finishing in a particular place (i.e. being champions, qualifying for Europe) and then at the same not apply the equivalent consequences for finishing in the bottom three? If they finish the season, and I don’t think they should, then it has to be treated as a fully completed season.
No it doesn’t.
How can it be if we have 6 home games to play when some of our rivals have only 4? Do you appreciate the importance of home games? How can you move the goalposts halfway through?
Liverpool is a forgone conclusion. So are most of the European places.
How can you relegate a team given what’s at stake when some have had greater advantages than others?
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 11, 2020, 06:31:36 PM
Post by: LukeJames on April 11, 2020, 06:49:34 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 06:55:07 PM
But you’re being subjective based on our particular circumstances. If you’re a team chasing a top four place and you have less games in front of your home crowd than one of your rivals how is it any different?
Not subjective-Just looking for the fairest way out.
You seem to be blinkered and can’t get your head around a scenario that suits most if not all parties. You don’t seem to be able to accept a situation where you can have champions but no relegations. I see nothing wrong with it.
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 06:57:35 PM
Yeah that makes no sense at all, why are a teams home games that are attempting to avoid relegation more important than a teams home games that are chasing Champions League?
Because we have 6 left. Give us 3 points for our game in hand and then everyone re-starts on an even keel.
If you can come up with a fairer way, let’s hear it.
Post by: Mister E on April 11, 2020, 06:58:52 PM
Why would Villa be given 3 points for the game in hand? Our recent form would suggest 1, tops.Yeah that makes no sense at all, why are a teams home games that are attempting to avoid relegation more important than a teams home games that are chasing Champions League?
Because we have 6 left. Give us 3 points for our game in hand and then everyone re-starts on an even keel.
If you can come up with a fairer way, let’s hear it.
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 07:02:21 PM
Why would Villa be given 3 points for the game in hand? Our recent form would suggest 1, tops.Yeah that makes no sense at all, why are a teams home games that are attempting to avoid relegation more important than a teams home games that are chasing Champions League?
Because we have 6 left. Give us 3 points for our game in hand and then everyone re-starts on an even keel.
If you can come up with a fairer way, let’s hear it.
1.3 actually.
I don’t think we should be given 3 points. I was showing why we would lose out on home games compared to those sides going for Europe.
Post by: paul_e on April 11, 2020, 07:04:20 PM
Post by: OCD on April 11, 2020, 07:29:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 11, 2020, 08:10:43 PM
The fairest way would be to have a 22 team league next season with the bottom 5 getting relegated to rebalance it the season after.
I agree which is why they shouldn’t finish the season. But if they do then all the standard rules have to apply.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 11, 2020, 08:14:04 PM
But you’re being subjective based on our particular circumstances. If you’re a team chasing a top four place and you have less games in front of your home crowd than one of your rivals how is it any different?
Not subjective-Just looking for the fairest way out.
You seem to be blinkered and can’t get your head around a scenario that suits most if not all parties. You don’t seem to be able to accept a situation where you can have champions but no relegations. I see nothing wrong with it.
But how does that make sense? Again if you’re a team in 5th place and have 6 home games left, why are you in any different situation to a team battling relegation who has 6 hole games left. If that team doesn’t make 4th place why is their case any different?
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 10:22:23 PM
The fairest way would be to have a 22 team league next season with the bottom 5 getting relegated to rebalance it the season after.
I'd have 4 relegated for the following 2 seasons.
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 11, 2020, 10:24:54 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 11, 2020, 10:34:29 PM
The fairest way would be to have a 22 team league next season with the bottom 5 getting relegated to rebalance it the season after.Problem is the deferred Euro 2020, can’t see the FA wanting extra games at the top level with that on the horizon
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
But you’re being subjective based on our particular circumstances. If you’re a team chasing a top four place and you have less games in front of your home crowd than one of your rivals how is it any different?
Not subjective-Just looking for the fairest way out.
You seem to be blinkered and can’t get your head around a scenario that suits most if not all parties. You don’t seem to be able to accept a situation where you can have champions but no relegations. I see nothing wrong with it.
But how does that make sense? Again if you’re a team in 5th place and have 6 home games left, why are you in any different situation to a team battling relegation who has 6 hole games left. If that team doesn’t make 4th place why is their case any different?
But there isn't a team in 5th place with 6 home games left. Sheffield United (7th) have a game in hand which is away to us and Arsenal (9th) have a game in hand which is away to Man City.
How else would you determine European places. You seem to be claiming not to finish the season at all which is far less fair (and impossible due to games in hand).
This is an extraordinary situation. You have to look at the fairest, most practical way to resolve it:
1. If at all possible, the season will be played out. This is certain because the money involved could well be the difference between a club surviving or not. Forget about it being voided. The only way that will happen is if it's a direct choice between this season and next.
2. With that in mind, what is the fairest way to settle the season? 3 issues have to be determined: Champions, European places and relegation. Champions is easy as we all accept Liverpool are worthy champions and by playing behind closed doors is not unfair on anyone. European places HAVE to be determined so what is the option? There is none - You go by the final standings after playing out behind closed doors. Not 100% ideal but by far the fairest way of settling and doubtful whether anyone would object PRIOR to the games being fulfilled. Certainly fairer than leaving the standings as they are. Finally, relegation places where at least 6 teams WILL object prior to games being fulfilled.
Just because 1 end of the table is affected doesn't mean the other end has to be - You have to think outside the box and look at the most logical solution. A vote can change and determine anything
If 20 teams are going to put it to the vote, we are far more likely to have an acceptable outcome (maybe all 20 voting the same way) in my scenario. It is the best, most sensible and most fairest way. Comparing it to voiding the season is ridiculous. Insisting on relegation is also ridiculous when there is no mandatory stipulation to relegate clubs. You will only end up with 3 very upset clubs and/or 6 clubs before a ball is kicked who may even refuse to comply until it is resolved through arbitration.
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2020, 10:45:44 PM
The fairest way would be to have a 22 team league next season with the bottom 5 getting relegated to rebalance it the season after.Problem is the deferred Euro 2020, can’t see the FA wanting extra games at the top level with that on the horizon
Scrap the League Cup/Scrap the winter break/Play 4 more midweek games.
Post by: Seb_AVFC on April 11, 2020, 10:46:45 PM
Google translated a part of the article from nieuwsblad.be:
"I will defend the position of the Belgian Pro League and say that now is the time to end the competitions. It will be very difficult to finish. It is to hold vain hope. You better face reality. " Playing games without an audience Van Ranst thinks "the wrong signal". "Then you also have two teams, referees, coaches, a bench and a lot of people who have to take care of everything in the stadium. And all this while you ask people for social distancing. The start of the 2020-2021 season is not yet predictable. We are now mid-April, so there is still time to make decisions about that."
Post by: Villan82 on April 12, 2020, 12:48:38 AM
The fairest way would be to have a 22 team league next season with the bottom 5 getting relegated to rebalance it the season after.
This or 2 seasons with 4 teams relegated to a more gradual return to 20 teams.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 12, 2020, 12:50:01 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 12, 2020, 09:01:14 AM
Also you’d probably still have an argument from the TV companies that you’re not giving them what they paid for. If Brighton vs Norwich, for example, has no stakes on it who’s going to watch it?
The point is that if you decide that playing behind closed doors, rushing the end of the season into a compressed window, or something else is an acceptable conclusion to the season then you have to treat it is as such. It’s tough luck on the teams who have more home games left. Ultimately everyone will have played 38 games, so you face the consequences of where you finish.
Now I don’t think it is fair, so I don’t think you should finish the season unless you can do it under the conditions (broadly) it started. But if there is some agreement that you can finish the season then it has to be treated as a valid season.
Post by: mr underhill on April 12, 2020, 09:43:13 AM
Post by: Neil Hawkes on April 12, 2020, 09:54:31 AM
For all leagues, award 2 points for all remaining home games, award 1 point for all remaining away games, close the season and award, promote & relegate after above.
Post by: Des Little on April 12, 2020, 10:48:11 AM
Post by: charlatan on April 12, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
From that point, they would need 3 - 4 weeks mini pre-season.
If all teams go back at the same time there is no need for any pre-season if time is of the essence.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 12, 2020, 11:01:17 AM
but it won't finish like it started. Social distancingwill be in force long after the pandemic is under control, with or without a vaccine.
Well exactly, which is why I don’t think it’s fair to finish it.
Post by: picicata on April 12, 2020, 11:15:41 AM
From that point, they would need 3 - 4 weeks mini pre-season.
If all teams go back at the same time there is no need for any pre-season if time is of the essence.
Pre season is there so players are properly up to speed and fit to play. No pre season and you risk many many injuries.
Post by: baddowvillans on April 12, 2020, 11:32:54 AM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 12, 2020, 11:36:59 AM
One possible solution is to stop the season as it stands, no more games, Liverpool crowned Champions, the remaining qualification places for next season's competitions is as stands, relegation and promotion places are solved by expanding each division for one season, so Leeds, West Brom are promoted, giving the Premiership 22 teams, so end of next season normality is recreated by more teams being relegated, so 3 come up and 5 go down, so on throughout the leagues.
That way the season is actually fulfilled, everybody knows where they stand and everybody knows what they have to do to survive or get promoted end of next season, the third place play-offs can't go ahead because it would involve to many extra games and to many teams completing this mini competition this season, so lets say, season ends right now Leeds and WBA have earned the right of automatic promotion because they hold the automatic promotion places, the rest is pure conjecture, so on and so forth throughout the rest of the leagues.
[/i]
Put this on a month ago as a solution and still think its the most practical and clean way of resolving what could be an almighty mess, its acceptable, joined up and could work, needs squaring in places but it could happen. The other thing is looking back at peoples messages from just a month ago....Oh wow!!!, what a month, from a few dead at that time to the fact we could hit 10,000 today, in a month, the stuff of nightmares. what the **** happened.
Post by: Mister E on April 12, 2020, 11:40:32 AM
For most of the season I have fancied our chances of getting something from the home games against Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Wolves (as well as the others). That confidence has dimmed a little as they have all got stronger and we have looked of the pace. Play those games behind closed doors however and we will get smashed. Teams like Villa need the crowd driving them on in these games so our season will have been massively impacted if they are not present.Well, that depends how each club has managed its players during the downtime. We don't know whether Villa will come back stronger compared to the rest: wouldn't it be wonderful to see our guys fitter, stronger and more focussed than before the lockdown?!
Okay; perhaps unlikely given what we've seen of our coaching so far.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 12, 2020, 11:41:46 AM
For most of the season I have fancied our chances of getting something from the home games against Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Wolves (as well as the others). That confidence has dimmed a little as they have all got stronger and we have looked of the pace. Play those games behind closed doors however and we will get smashed. Teams like Villa need the crowd driving them on in these games so our season will have been massively impacted if they are not present.
Yep and I don’t disagree, which is why they should pull the plug on the season. What you can’t have is some misaligned hybrid approach where you keep playing, behind closed doors, but say that results matter up one end of the table and not the other.
Post by: Villa Lew on April 12, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 11:50:14 AM
Almost every club in the division will want the games played out if possible - It is their salvation. These clubs will need to vote on a way to finish it. Once that vote is taken and passed, there is no going back and no complaining afterwards. In order to get the bottom 6 onside, they will need to ensure that relegation is scrapped. If the 5th, 6th 7th teams etc agree to it, there is no window for complaining/arbitration afterwards.
TV companies would have a deal whereby every game is likely to be televised so whereas they may lose out on the excitement of relegation games, they would get to show more games.
Playing the season out behind closed doors with no relegation keeps all 20 members happy or at the very least, 19 of them.
Post by: malckennedy on April 12, 2020, 11:53:16 AM
For what it’s worth my view is that there are only two equitable ways for this to be dealt with (and any others will rightly end up in the courts) - either complete the fixtures (which looks increasingly unlikely) or abandon the season with no relegations or promotions.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 12, 2020, 12:12:02 PM
I admit that I’ve only quickly looked at this thread from time to time, but I’m puzzled by the frequency of the suggestion that it is appropriate to have no relegation from the PL if the season is abandoned whilst at the same time accepting that WBA and Leeds come up. If it is unfair to relegate teams on the basis of the season being incomplete it is equally unfair to promote others.
For what it’s worth my view is that there are only two equitable ways for this to be dealt with (and any others will rightly end up in the courts) - either complete the fixtures (which looks increasingly unlikely) or abandon the season with no relegations or promotions.
Damage limitation, teams getting promoted can only be good news for them, teams getting relegated without finishing a season can only mean anger and mitigation and legal actions, likewise if you deny teams like Leeds and WBA who look odds on at this point to get promoted, then take that away from them, very unhappy bunnies.
To stop the season dead would deny Liverpool the Premiership when they are realistically already champions, on the other hand you can't grant promotion to sides and then say Liverpool can't be champions, so the good news effect has to be spread evenly, point is why wouldn't Liverpool want this season finished, hold out at all costs, they've already won it.
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 12:14:15 PM
I admit that I’ve only quickly looked at this thread from time to time, but I’m puzzled by the frequency of the suggestion that it is appropriate to have no relegation from the PL if the season is abandoned whilst at the same time accepting that WBA and Leeds come up. If it is unfair to relegate teams on the basis of the season being incomplete it is equally unfair to promote others.
For what it’s worth my view is that there are only two equitable ways for this to be dealt with (and any others will rightly end up in the courts) - either complete the fixtures (which looks increasingly unlikely) or abandon the season with no relegations or promotions.
Firstly, any decision that is made is almost certainly going to be made by the members (the 20 league clubs). It will be made by way of resolution and once that resolution is passed, there will not be the option of going to the courts at a later stage if things go pear shaped (for that particular member).
There is no perfect way to get out of this so we have to look at the nearest option.
As the PL & EFL are 2 entirely separate entities, you would think that we are not obliged to accept any EFL side into the division. It is an option of course to not allow promotion this season.
I am trying to look at the fairest conclusion - The way that keeps most clubs happy, minimising complaints. This is why I suggest 2 teams are promoted.
You have to accept the 3rd equitable way to finish the season and that is behind closed doors. Currently, this is far, far more achievable than playing out the season in normal circumstances. The clubs need the money that will come from finishing the season and probably from fist placed to fourteenth place would want to finish behind closed doors if there is a chance to do so. If they were to accept no relegations (no shin off their teeth) then the other 6 teams would also want to finish off the season. You would have a scenario where all 20 members agree on a solution. Something has to give. Whatever suggestion you come up will mean it's not fair to certain teams. How would they decide European slots if the season was voided? I can't see any other option whereby all 20 PL clubs agree on it.
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 12:31:24 PM
Post by: Louzie0 on April 12, 2020, 12:35:05 PM
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 12, 2020, 12:44:47 PM
I admit that I’ve only quickly looked at this thread from time to time, but I’m puzzled by the frequency of the suggestion that it is appropriate to have no relegation from the PL if the season is abandoned whilst at the same time accepting that WBA and Leeds come up. If it is unfair to relegate teams on the basis of the season being incomplete it is equally unfair to promote others.
For what it’s worth my view is that there are only two equitable ways for this to be dealt with (and any others will rightly end up in the courts) - either complete the fixtures (which looks increasingly unlikely) or abandon the season with no relegations or promotions.
Firstly, any decision that is made is almost certainly going to be made by the members (the 20 league clubs). It will be made by way of resolution and once that resolution is passed, there will not be the option of going to the courts at a later stage if things go pear shaped (for that particular member).
There is no perfect way to get out of this so we have to look at the nearest option.
As the PL & EFL are 2 entirely separate entities, you would think that we are not obliged to accept any EFL side into the division. It is an option of course to not allow promotion this season.
I am trying to look at the fairest conclusion - The way that keeps most clubs happy, minimising complaints. This is why I suggest 2 teams are promoted.
You have to accept the 3rd equitable way to finish the season and that is behind closed doors. Currently, this is far, far more achievable than playing out the season in normal circumstances. The clubs need the money that will come from finishing the season and probably from fist placed to fourteenth place would want to finish behind closed doors if there is a chance to do so. If they were to accept no relegations (no shin off their teeth) then the other 6 teams would also want to finish off the season. You would have a scenario where all 20 members agree on a solution. Something has to give. Whatever suggestion you come up will mean it's not fair to certain teams. How would they decide European slots if the season was voided? I can't see any other option whereby all 20 PL clubs agree on it.
You mentioned earlier that somebody was blinkered in their view. Well, I am sorry, I think you are totally blinkered in pushing your ideas.
Football is all about money these days and it is not just the clubs and the companies that sell TV viewing of matches to the public. One example is sponsorship. If a sponsor may loose out because of a non-natural playing out of the season, they could be the first into the courtroom, regardless with how the clubs vote. In fact it could be a backdoor way for a club to fight the decision without being seen to. If anybody comes out with a loss from a natural conclusion to the season, they could sue the PL, EFL or whoever and if this happened, the first act would be an injunction to stop the leagues starting again. You cannot financially remedy a party after the event if they were successful in court in this type of situation.
Another major argument which is conveniently being ignored by those that want to end the season in any way possible is the players who are out of contract at the end of June and have already agreed to move to other clubs. Or the situation where clubs need to get rid of players at the ends of their contracts for financial reasons. The clubs with nothing to play for would get rid of them and possibly reduce the strength of their squads, whereas clubs with something to play for would have to either extend contracts and pay more money (putting themselves at financial risk) or get rid of them and accept having less chance with a weaker squad.
What about insurance. Who is insured for what if the season was cancelled.
There is a financial minefield out there for continuing the season unnaturally. How much of a minefield is out there for cancelling the season due to a totally unforeseen event, nobody is saying in detail. Talking points on not coming to a final decision on something sells but at a cost of integrity.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 12, 2020, 12:50:30 PM
I’d suggest that even playing matches behind closed doors depends on a vaccine being available and effective for all the clubs and officials involved in the professional game.
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
I think I raised this earlier in the thread but what about players' insurance. What if a player was to pick up the virus even though a game was played behind closed doors and was put out of the game for some time or, heaven forbid, died through it. A player's insurance company would certainly be looking at that scenario and either would refuse to insure or force a new greater risk policy on the player.
Post by: aev on April 12, 2020, 12:51:20 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on April 12, 2020, 12:55:44 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 12:56:27 PM
Yes, sponsors MAY be able to get into the courtroom but ONLY if they cannot agree the refund (that they are lawfully entitled to) with an individual club. If you want to have a read of the Frustration Act 1943, you will see that a party who loses out because of circumstances that are beyond either parties control is protected by statute. Court action would be a very last resort and only applicable if an amicable solution cannot be reached. You don't even know whether sponsors have paid in stage payments or all up front.
Players cannot move to other clubs because as we've discovered ourselves, the squad lists submitted in January cannot be altered/amended.
I think it is you who is blinkered pal. You don't seem to have thought this through very well or researched it.
Try to think logically.
Post by: andyh on April 12, 2020, 12:56:50 PM
Just void the season.
Post by: Richard E on April 12, 2020, 12:57:21 PM
If this 22 team league transpired and we had 5 relegated next season, we'd have the trauma of thinking every week, are there 5 teams worser than us?
Not quite that bad. One of the 22 teams would be Albion, so we’d only have to worry whether there were 4 teams worse than us.
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 12:57:55 PM
I’d suggest that even playing matches behind closed doors depends on a vaccine being available and effective for all the clubs and officials involved in the professional game.
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
I think I raised this earlier in the thread but what about players' insurance. What if a player was to pick up the virus even though a game was played behind closed doors and was put out of the game for some time or, heaven forbid, died through it. A player's insurance company would certainly be looking at that scenario and either would refuse to insure or force a new greater risk policy on the player.
Players would be tested prior to games.
In any case, how could you possibly prove that the virus was contracted whilst a player was participating in a match?
Post by: Louzie0 on April 12, 2020, 01:13:52 PM
I’d suggest that even playing matches behind closed doors depends on a vaccine being available and effective for all the clubs and officials involved in the professional game.
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
I think I raised this earlier in the thread but what about players' insurance. What if a player was to pick up the virus even though a game was played behind closed doors and was put out of the game for some time or, heaven forbid, died through it. A player's insurance company would certainly be looking at that scenario and either would refuse to insure or force a new greater risk policy on the player.
Sorry I missed it, omvf.
The scenario you describe of Covid 19 being passed on would be inevitable if clubs go ahead and hold matches without vaccinating everyone. It’s not as if players can wear PPE.
I appreciate Brassneck’s technical point about not being able to prove they caught it at the match and testing everybody beforehand. I think it would be cold comfort for anybody who tested positive days after a match, though. I don’t think there’s a test that can definitely rule it out, yet; perhaps there will be one later this year?
The insurance companies, PL, FIFA players and clubs must be having interesting discussions about this at the moment, given lockdown dates being extended. And Sky.
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on April 12, 2020, 01:14:18 PM
Could you trust the great British public to stay away and even if they did you would still have to have a police presence there to ensure that was the case.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 12, 2020, 01:15:56 PM
Presumably, outside the ground, there would need to be a sizable Police presence to stop crowds congregating as well.
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 01:45:55 PM
I’d suggest that even playing matches behind closed doors depends on a vaccine being available and effective for all the clubs and officials involved in the professional game.
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
I think I raised this earlier in the thread but what about players' insurance. What if a player was to pick up the virus even though a game was played behind closed doors and was put out of the game for some time or, heaven forbid, died through it. A player's insurance company would certainly be looking at that scenario and either would refuse to insure or force a new greater risk policy on the player.
Sorry I missed it, omvf.
The scenario you describe of Covid 19 being passed on would be inevitable if clubs go ahead and hold matches without vaccinating everyone. It’s not as if players can wear PPE.
I appreciate Brassneck’s technical point about not being able to prove they caught it at the match and testing everybody beforehand. I think it would be cold comfort for anybody who tested positive days after a match, though. I don’t think there’s a test that can definitely rule it out, yet; perhaps there will be one later this year?
The insurance companies, PL, FIFA players and clubs must be having interesting discussions about this at the moment, given lockdown dates being extended. And Sky.
There will have almost certainly have been discussions with the Government as well as ultimately, they will also have to be satisfied that safety is observed. I don't think crowds outside a ground will be a problem because anyone who turns up would be slapped with a penalty.
It is interesting that in the article that I linked to in the Independent, it is mentioned that TV companies may be prepared to honour this season's contract even if games are not played provided that an agreement can be reached over next season's contract. This would obviously ensure that each PL club will stay afloat. It would probably mean that next season's deal would be lower and this in turn may impact some clubs who are committed to players contracts.
My own feeling is that IF it's possible to play behind closed doors then this will be a preferred alternative to voiding the season. Either way, playing in front of crowds will not be an option.
Post by: mr underhill on April 12, 2020, 01:47:27 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 01:53:57 PM
I disagree. The only fair option, as many have said, is to finish the season under the same conditions as you started it. That isn't going to happen until we have a vaccine.
Yes BUT that isn't an option and isn't likely to be for the rest of 2020 at the very earliest.
So do we just sit around in limbo waiting for clubs to go into liquidation or do we try to resolve it with the next best thing?
We can't just bury our heads in the sand and then pick up again in 6/9/12 months time.
Post by: nevillain on April 12, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 12, 2020, 02:12:28 PM
I’d suggest that even playing matches behind closed doors depends on a vaccine being available and effective for all the clubs and officials involved in the professional game.
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
I think I raised this earlier in the thread but what about players' insurance. What if a player was to pick up the virus even though a game was played behind closed doors and was put out of the game for some time or, heaven forbid, died through it. A player's insurance company would certainly be looking at that scenario and either would refuse to insure or force a new greater risk policy on the player.
Sorry I missed it, omvf.
The scenario you describe of Covid 19 being passed on would be inevitable if clubs go ahead and hold matches without vaccinating everyone. It’s not as if players can wear PPE.
I appreciate Brassneck’s technical point about not being able to prove they caught it at the match and testing everybody beforehand. I think it would be cold comfort for anybody who tested positive days after a match, though. I don’t think there’s a test that can definitely rule it out, yet; perhaps there will be one later this year?
The insurance companies, PL, FIFA players and clubs must be having interesting discussions about this at the moment, given lockdown dates being extended. And Sky.
There will have almost certainly have been discussions with the Government as well as ultimately, they will also have to be satisfied that safety is observed. I don't think crowds outside a ground will be a problem because anyone who turns up would be slapped with a penalty.
It is interesting that in the article that I linked to in the Independent, it is mentioned that TV companies may be prepared to honour this season's contract even if games are not played provided that an agreement can be reached over next season's contract. This would obviously ensure that each PL club will stay afloat. It would probably mean that next season's deal would be lower and this in turn may impact some clubs who are committed to players contracts.
My own feeling is that IF it's possible to play behind closed doors then this will be a preferred alternative to voiding the season. Either way, playing in front of crowds will not be an option.
All this talk of returning TV cash seems to have missed the part where SKY/BT need the football rights as much as the clubs need the cash.Also it's not like if they get the cash back they can spend it on rights to other sports to bring in subscribers ..
Post by: andyh on April 12, 2020, 02:26:28 PM
I said before, they both need each other and so it’s only sensible they come to a reasonable way of voiding this season without ripping each other to shreds.
Post by: charlatan on April 12, 2020, 03:28:03 PM
From that point, they would need 3 - 4 weeks mini pre-season.
If all teams go back at the same time there is no need for any pre-season if time is of the essence.
Pre season is there so players are properly up to speed and fit to play. No pre season and you risk many many injuries.
Players have the opportunity to maintain basic fitness during this break. I ran further in March than any other month in my life partly as a result of being off on paternity leave and similarly they have more time on their hands to work on fitness. Being up to speed tactically, bedding in new players, etc. are irrelevant. Managing your body on and off the field is part of being a professional.
Post by: Brassneck on April 12, 2020, 03:41:25 PM
From that point, they would need 3 - 4 weeks mini pre-season.
If all teams go back at the same time there is no need for any pre-season if time is of the essence.
Pre season is there so players are properly up to speed and fit to play. No pre season and you risk many many injuries.
Players have the opportunity to maintain basic fitness during this break. I ran further in March than any other month in my life partly as a result of being off on paternity leave and similarly they have more time on their hands to work on fitness. Being up to speed tactically, bedding in new players, etc. are irrelevant. Managing your body on and off the field is part of being a professional.
A mini pre-season would almost certainly be required.
Bear in mind that if this season is played out, they would then go straight in to the following season.
Post by: Ads on April 12, 2020, 04:44:34 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 12, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Post by: Damo70 on April 12, 2020, 04:58:03 PM
I’m sure it’s been said before but playing behind closed doors doesn’t necessarily mean no crowd..see the PSG game in Paris I forget against who.
Could you trust the great British public to stay away and even if they did you would still have to have a police presence there to ensure that was the case.
Absolutely. The potential for (relatively) large public gatherings for a game of football would take up vital police resources. If a game is on some idiots will attempt to attend it to claim their 'I was there' moment.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 12, 2020, 04:59:17 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 12, 2020, 05:00:58 PM
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon
Quote
Conversations with experts painted a picture of what exactly it would take to make these sports vacuums a reality. Before any of this can begin, every person who would have access to the facilities will need to be isolated separately for two weeks to ensure that no infection could enter. That’s players and coaches, athletic trainers and interpreters, reporters and broadcasters, plus housekeeping and security personnel. No one can come in or out. Food will have to be delivered. Hotel and stadium employees will have to be paid enough to compensate for their time away from their families. Everyone onsite will have to be tested multiple times during this initial period.
Quote
All right, so the 14-day period is over and everyone has tested negative at least twice. Now they are allowed to begin spending time around one another—but not too much time. If one person gets it, he or she will begin spreading it immediately, so everyone will have to continue practicing social distancing. That probably means using a new ball for each play. It probably means seating players in stands rather than on benches or in dugouts. It certainly means banning high-fives.
Post by: john e on April 12, 2020, 06:23:30 PM
The last few league games we were rubbish
I honestly don’t think it was because we weren’t trying but more a total loss of believe, tactics, ability
imo we were down, I know anything can happen in football but whenever we needed a result or even a performance it didn’t happen
a new start however that happens with players back from injury and maybe other teams not having as much to play for in a distorted season might give us a better chance than we would have had
I would rather we earned our position in the premier league rather than just be handed it by default as if the rubbish we have played in recent weeks never existed
Post by: andyh on April 12, 2020, 07:03:48 PM
As I said before, how will you keep a million scousers off the streets when they are announced champions?I’m sure it’s been said before but playing behind closed doors doesn’t necessarily mean no crowd..see the PSG game in Paris I forget against who.
Could you trust the great British public to stay away and even if they did you would still have to have a police presence there to ensure that was the case.
Absolutely. The potential for (relatively) large public gatherings for a game of football would take up vital police resources. If a game is on some idiots will attempt to attend it to claim their 'I was there' moment.
Post by: andyh on April 12, 2020, 07:11:57 PM
Good article here about the issues of playing even with no fansThat’s a great find.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soonQuoteConversations with experts painted a picture of what exactly it would take to make these sports vacuums a reality. Before any of this can begin, every person who would have access to the facilities will need to be isolated separately for two weeks to ensure that no infection could enter. That’s players and coaches, athletic trainers and interpreters, reporters and broadcasters, plus housekeeping and security personnel. No one can come in or out. Food will have to be delivered. Hotel and stadium employees will have to be paid enough to compensate for their time away from their families. Everyone onsite will have to be tested multiple times during this initial period.QuoteAll right, so the 14-day period is over and everyone has tested negative at least twice. Now they are allowed to begin spending time around one another—but not too much time. If one person gets it, he or she will begin spreading it immediately, so everyone will have to continue practicing social distancing. That probably means using a new ball for each play. It probably means seating players in stands rather than on benches or in dugouts. It certainly means banning high-fives.
It brings home the absurdity of talking about playing behind closed doors unless there is a vaccine.
Post by: OzVilla on April 13, 2020, 03:51:44 AM
As I said before, how will you keep a million scousers off the streets when they are announced champions?I’m sure it’s been said before but playing behind closed doors doesn’t necessarily mean no crowd..see the PSG game in Paris I forget against who.
Could you trust the great British public to stay away and even if they did you would still have to have a police presence there to ensure that was the case.
Absolutely. The potential for (relatively) large public gatherings for a game of football would take up vital police resources. If a game is on some idiots will attempt to attend it to claim their 'I was there' moment.
Not to mention the amount of unscrupulous pubs and clubs that will have ‘lock ins’ around Merseyside, Leeds etc when their games are being played. We are all football fans and we’ve all been around long enough to know how this stuff works. Fortunately it’ll also be all over social media so I can see one game back being enough for the Government to put a stop to it.
But we know it’s going to happen and it could easily set off a 2nd wave.
Post by: PeterWithe on April 13, 2020, 08:22:26 AM
Post by: aev on April 13, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Wembley and St George’s Park now being floated as neutral venues in which to finish PL season. In today’s Times.
Why would neutral venues be needed?
Post by: mr underhill on April 13, 2020, 09:06:14 AM
Post by: aev on April 13, 2020, 09:10:58 AM
If they are hell bent on playing out the season behind closed doors in some dopey festival of football I can’t imagine they will be relegating clubs on the back of it.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 13, 2020, 09:18:28 AM
Post by: exigo on April 13, 2020, 10:58:26 AM
I'm not linking to the Daily M**l report that had it in.
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on April 13, 2020, 11:19:09 AM
unless they relegate us as it stands I think the corona virus gives us a better chance of us staying up whatever they decideMaybe you're right, but equally you have watched football long enough to know it only takes one result to change the fortunes and confidence of a team. Leicester were dead and buried in 14/15 with a few games left so anything is possible. I personally think our home form although not great would have been just enough to get us through.
The last few league games we were rubbish
I honestly don’t think it was because we weren’t trying but more a total loss of believe, tactics, ability
imo we were down, I know anything can happen in football but whenever we needed a result or even a performance it didn’t happen
a new start however that happens with players back from injury and maybe other teams not having as much to play for in a distorted season might give us a better chance than we would have had
I would rather we earned our position in the premier league rather than just be handed it by default as if the rubbish we have played in recent weeks never existed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on April 13, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
Surely playing games at the same venue would increase the chances of spreading the infection.
Wembley and St George’s Park now being floated as neutral venues in which to finish PL season. In today’s Times.
Why would neutral venues be needed?
Post by: Brassneck on April 13, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
unless they relegate us as it stands I think the corona virus gives us a better chance of us staying up whatever they decideMaybe you're right, but equally you have watched football long enough to know it only takes one result to change the fortunes and confidence of a team. Leicester were dead and buried in 14/15 with a few games left so anything is possible. I personally think our home form although not great would have been just enough to get us through.
The last few league games we were rubbish
I honestly don’t think it was because we weren’t trying but more a total loss of believe, tactics, ability
imo we were down, I know anything can happen in football but whenever we needed a result or even a performance it didn’t happen
a new start however that happens with players back from injury and maybe other teams not having as much to play for in a distorted season might give us a better chance than we would have had
I would rather we earned our position in the premier league rather than just be handed it by default as if the rubbish we have played in recent weeks never existed
For me, I think we were the worst team in the division at the point of suspension. The performances at Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton and Leicester were a disgrace. I clung to the hope that our home form would be key but as the games approached, we were on the decline whereas the likes of Man U, Wolves, Sheff U & Chelsea were all looking really good.
The season won't be played out in front of crowds, unless it is done so in some time in the future because next season can't be played. Whatever other option is chosen (void or behind closed doors) should mean no relegations take place.
I too would rather we earned our place in the PL (wouldn't we all). However, we were dead men walking. I'm more than happy for no relegations to take place and for me, it balances out the misfortune/wrong decisions that went against us at Palace and to a lesser extent Arsenal. They say that decisions have a way of balancing themselves up well I think that would be true if no relegations take place this season.
Post by: Villan82 on April 13, 2020, 11:51:49 AM
Playing it out, but with no relegation, is too risky. Look at he numbers dying. It is an insult for football to be having this conversation.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 13, 2020, 12:26:34 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on April 13, 2020, 12:45:05 PM
I’d suggest that even playing matches behind closed doors depends on a vaccine being available and effective for all the clubs and officials involved in the professional game.
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
I think I raised this earlier in the thread but what about players' insurance. What if a player was to pick up the virus even though a game was played behind closed doors and was put out of the game for some time or, heaven forbid, died through it. A player's insurance company would certainly be looking at that scenario and either would refuse to insure or force a new greater risk policy on the player.
Players would be tested prior to games.
In any case, how could you possibly prove that the virus was contracted whilst a player was participating in a match?
I think you missed the point. What if an insurance company refused to insure the player. Could you imagine a player's agent saying "It's ok Sergio, there's not much of a risk to you". No, I can't, either.
Post by: baddowvillans on April 13, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on April 13, 2020, 01:12:29 PM
I am not blinkered - I am stating the obvious. If there is an opportunity to play behind closed doors, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be taken. It is because football is all about money that this is the case.
Yes, sponsors MAY be able to get into the courtroom but ONLY if they cannot agree the refund (that they are lawfully entitled to) with an individual club. If you want to have a read of the Frustration Act 1943, you will see that a party who loses out because of circumstances that are beyond either parties control is protected by statute. Court action would be a very last resort and only applicable if an amicable solution cannot be reached. You don't even know whether sponsors have paid in stage payments or all up front.
Players cannot move to other clubs because as we've discovered ourselves, the squad lists submitted in January cannot be altered/amended.
I think it is you who is blinkered pal. You don't seem to have thought this through very well or researched it.
Try to think logically.
In your attempt to reinforce your opinion, you are stating the obvious. However, you are ignoring the less obvious. To my mind, that is a blinkered view.
Football sponsorship tends to be for a period of time and cannot be adjusted prorata so I do not understand how you can say they would be due a lawful refund. It's not like the sponsor can give something back to get that refund.
It's interesting that you raise 'Frustration'. It depends on the terms of the specific contract and whether it has been written out, or not. What does the contract the PL have with TV companies say. It is the obvious point that everybody has been ignoring. The question that is not being asked. Why!!
Missed the point again about what I was saying about players' contracts. A player whose contract finishes on 30th June and is going to another club, will at the 30th June just say "see ya" and be off, they cannot force him to extend his contract, especially if he has a pre-contract agreement.
I am not blinkered (pal!). I am raising points that you are ignoring. I am not trying to prove one way or another, so I do not have to research it. I will leave that to the people that will make the decisions. It is not that important to me as I am losing my love for football as I get older. Even more so when I see people dying and losing their income through this virus and football is saying "we must carry on".
Whether it is football, politics or whatever, what annoys me is the media failing to ask questions that they know the answers will kill off their argument or continuation of their agenda to make money.
Post by: Villan82 on April 13, 2020, 01:13:23 PM
Can't believe anybody would think (even at the PL) that playing our "home" games at a neutral venue would be fair way of resolving the season. It could only work if there were no relegations and if that is the case then what would be the point in risking loss of life?
I can't help but feel it's the Liverpool angle.
Post by: Brassneck on April 13, 2020, 01:18:08 PM
I’d suggest that even playing matches behind closed doors depends on a vaccine being available and effective for all the clubs and officials involved in the professional game.
We seem to be some way off that, at the moment.
Also, I can’t be the only person who hears a chorus of Behind Closed Doors by Charlie Rich every time the phrase comes into discussion.
I think I raised this earlier in the thread but what about players' insurance. What if a player was to pick up the virus even though a game was played behind closed doors and was put out of the game for some time or, heaven forbid, died through it. A player's insurance company would certainly be looking at that scenario and either would refuse to insure or force a new greater risk policy on the player.
Players would be tested prior to games.
In any case, how could you possibly prove that the virus was contracted whilst a player was participating in a match?
I think you missed the point. What if an insurance company refused to insure the player. Could you imagine a player's agent saying "It's ok Sergio, there's not much of a risk to you". No, I can't, either.
No - I think you are missing the point. You seem to be under some illusion that football will restart while the rest of the country is still in lock down. If (and it's a big if) football is re-started, it will be at a point where the country has returned to some kind of normality. Schools will be re-opened, factories re-opened, offices re-opened, shops re-opened and maybe even pubs re-opened.
That is why there has been no definitive decision as yet. Nobody knows if and when it will be safe to get back to normal. Nobody is suggesting that games will be played whilst it is still unsafe to do so.
You seem to be building silly things into your arguments like players moving to other clubs, sponsors suing clubs or agents refusing to let players play. None are realistic and quite frankly are bordering on the ridiculous.
Post by: Brassneck on April 13, 2020, 01:24:41 PM
I am not blinkered - I am stating the obvious. If there is an opportunity to play behind closed doors, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be taken. It is because football is all about money that this is the case.
Yes, sponsors MAY be able to get into the courtroom but ONLY if they cannot agree the refund (that they are lawfully entitled to) with an individual club. If you want to have a read of the Frustration Act 1943, you will see that a party who loses out because of circumstances that are beyond either parties control is protected by statute. Court action would be a very last resort and only applicable if an amicable solution cannot be reached. You don't even know whether sponsors have paid in stage payments or all up front.
Players cannot move to other clubs because as we've discovered ourselves, the squad lists submitted in January cannot be altered/amended.
I think it is you who is blinkered pal. You don't seem to have thought this through very well or researched it.
Try to think logically.
In your attempt to reinforce your opinion, you are stating the obvious. However, you are ignoring the less obvious. To my mind, that is a blinkered view.
Football sponsorship tends to be for a period of time and cannot be adjusted prorata so I do not understand how you can say they would be due a lawful refund. It's not like the sponsor can give something back to get that refund.
It's interesting that you raise 'Frustration'. It depends on the terms of the specific contract and whether it has been written out, or not. What does the contract the PL have with TV companies say. It is the obvious point that everybody has been ignoring. The question that is not being asked. Why!!
Missed the point again about what I was saying about players' contracts. A player whose contract finishes on 30th June and is going to another club, will at the 30th June just say "see ya" and be off, they cannot force him to extend his contract, especially if he has a pre-contract agreement.
I am not blinkered (pal!). I am raising points that you are ignoring. I am not trying to prove one way or another, so I do not have to research it. I will leave that to the people that will make the decisions. It is not that important to me as I am losing my love for football as I get older. Even more so when I see people dying and losing their income through this virus and football is saying "we must carry on".
Whether it is football, politics or whatever, what annoys me is the media failing to ask questions that they know the answers will kill off their argument or continuation of their agenda to make money.
I'm sorry - This is just nonsense.
Frustration has nothing to do with specific terms of a contract. Frustration occurs when a contract cannot be fulfilled because of unforeseen circumstances that are the fault of neither party.
The fact that you do not understand how a party is legally entitled to recover money paid in the event of frustration tells me that you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 13, 2020, 01:39:04 PM
I am not blinkered - I am stating the obvious. If there is an opportunity to play behind closed doors, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be taken. It is because football is all about money that this is the case.
Yes, sponsors MAY be able to get into the courtroom but ONLY if they cannot agree the refund (that they are lawfully entitled to) with an individual club. If you want to have a read of the Frustration Act 1943, you will see that a party who loses out because of circumstances that are beyond either parties control is protected by statute. Court action would be a very last resort and only applicable if an amicable solution cannot be reached. You don't even know whether sponsors have paid in stage payments or all up front.
Players cannot move to other clubs because as we've discovered ourselves, the squad lists submitted in January cannot be altered/amended.
I think it is you who is blinkered pal. You don't seem to have thought this through very well or researched it.
Try to think logically.
In your attempt to reinforce your opinion, you are stating the obvious. However, you are ignoring the less obvious. To my mind, that is a blinkered view.
Football sponsorship tends to be for a period of time and cannot be adjusted prorata so I do not understand how you can say they would be due a lawful refund. It's not like the sponsor can give something back to get that refund.
It's interesting that you raise 'Frustration'. It depends on the terms of the specific contract and whether it has been written out, or not. What does the contract the PL have with TV companies say. It is the obvious point that everybody has been ignoring. The question that is not being asked. Why!!
Missed the point again about what I was saying about players' contracts. A player whose contract finishes on 30th June and is going to another club, will at the 30th June just say "see ya" and be off, they cannot force him to extend his contract, especially if he has a pre-contract agreement.
I am not blinkered (pal!). I am raising points that you are ignoring. I am not trying to prove one way or another, so I do not have to research it. I will leave that to the people that will make the decisions. It is not that important to me as I am losing my love for football as I get older. Even more so when I see people dying and losing their income through this virus and football is saying "we must carry on".
Whether it is football, politics or whatever, what annoys me is the media failing to ask questions that they know the answers will kill off their argument or continuation of their agenda to make money.
I'm sorry - This is just nonsense.
Frustration has nothing to do with specific terms of a contract. Frustration occurs when a contract cannot be fulfilled because of unforeseen circumstances that are the fault of neither party.
The fact that you do not understand how a party is legally entitled to recover money paid in the event of frustration tells me that you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
A bespoke contract can be made up as the two parties agree (with some limitations). Clauses from standard forms of contract can be struck out if both parties agree. I work in the construction industry and as you can imagine at this point in time everybody is going through their contracts with a fine-tooth comb to see what it says about force majeure and whether parties have acted correctly to follow the 'frustration' route. So, yes, I do understand.
Post by: Brassneck on April 13, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 13, 2020, 03:49:06 PM
As I've said before if the season can't finish by the end on June I don't see how they can ensure a fair resolution. If they try do push this through I'd be very interested to see what they offer to clubs to enable it. Other than Liverpool who benefits from finishing the season from this point? I can't see anyone in the bottom 6 agreeing to it, I doubt many of the midtable teams will care much either way and I don't see much benefit to Man City or Leicester. The only counter arguments are money related so again this comes down to an argument between finances and integrity
Post by: old man villa fan on April 13, 2020, 04:06:13 PM
As I stated previously, frustration is now regulated by an Act of Parliment. It has nothing to do with the terms of a contract unless you are suggesting that parties would waive the right of protection from frustration by specifically entering a clause? Again, this is just ridiculous. The Act protects both parties equally, ie the payer and the payee. The only grey area is that expenses are allowed to be recovered.
Frustration in contractual terms does not just happen. You have to demonstrate that you have followed the contract to do all things that contractually you can before you can claim frustration as a way of terminating a contract. If a contract is terminated through 'frustration', it is as if the contract was never in existence.
I am getting frustrated by your attitude of being 'the heavy' in use of words. Commonplace in social media but could be construed as bullying elsewhere. I'll leave you to continue your discussions with others. I will continue to watch and read with what little interest I still have.
Post by: Brassneck on April 13, 2020, 04:23:14 PM
As I stated previously, frustration is now regulated by an Act of Parliment. It has nothing to do with the terms of a contract unless you are suggesting that parties would waive the right of protection from frustration by specifically entering a clause? Again, this is just ridiculous. The Act protects both parties equally, ie the payer and the payee. The only grey area is that expenses are allowed to be recovered.
Frustration in contractual terms does not just happen. You have to demonstrate that you have followed the contract to do all things that contractually you can before you can claim frustration as a way of terminating a contract. If a contract is terminated through 'frustration', it is as if the contract was never in existence.
I am getting frustrated by your attitude of being 'the heavy' in use of words. Commonplace in social media but could be construed as bullying elsewhere. I'll leave you to continue your discussions with others. I will continue to watch and read with what little interest I still have.
But here's the thing - Nobody is claiming frustration. Every party is trying their utmost best to ensure that frustration does not occur. Then you get people like you jumping in, calling those more knowledgeable than yourself "blinkered", whilst posting nonsense.
Do you not think that it is because of the potential of frustration that parties are still looking at ways to ensure contracts are fulfilled?
You seem to be now arguing the exact opposite from when you first posted. You first stated that clubs could be sued if they tried to finish the season - Now you are claiming that they need to do everything possible to finish the season. Perhaps it's for the best that you leave the discussion.
Post by: mr underhill on April 13, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
Post by: Damo70 on April 13, 2020, 04:40:52 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 13, 2020, 05:12:16 PM
Here are the various links in the chain.
Players
Sponsors
Agents
Clubs
Agents
Sponsors
Local. Associations PL EFL
Sponsors
Tv Companies
International Football Associations
Sponsors
Tv Companies
Different sponsors can appear at different levels, there are Multiple Domestic and International TV contracts.
I may have missed some out here and have not taken into account normal business operating considerations. Subscribers Debenture Holders or Season Ticket Holders.
All of the parties are dependent upon the others.
This is extremely complex and there will not be enough revenue to satisfy the contractual obligations all the way down the food chain and pretty much everybody will lose out. So it is a question of who takes the hit and how this apportioned.
It is also worth considering that these contracts were drawn up in the pre Crisis world.
They are unlikely to be sustainable in the new world order because pretty much every one will have been severely impacted financially.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 13, 2020, 05:18:18 PM
Quote
Tottenham have reversed their decision to use the government's furlough scheme for some non-playing staff during the coronavirus crisis following criticism from supporters.
On 31 March, the club announced 550 employees would take a 20% pay cut in an attempt "to protect jobs".
But on Monday, a Spurs statement said non-playing staff will receive "100% of their pay for April and May".
Only board members will now take salary reductions, the statement added.
That includes chairman Daniel Levy, who earned £7m last year.
Levy said: "We regret any concern caused during an anxious time and hope the work our supporters will see us doing in the coming weeks, as our stadium takes on a whole new purpose, will make them proud of their club.
Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Club (THST) - which had on Friday urged the club to "do the right thing" and reverse the decision, saying "mass supporter opinion against these decisions had solidified" - thanked directors "for finding an alternative way forward".
"This is the first step, but a big step, in restoring relations between fans and the club," the group added.
Spurs' statement on Monday said: "With no clarity on when football might resume, and under what conditions, we shall continue to keep this under ongoing review.
"We are acutely aware that many supporters were against the decision we made regarding furloughing staff who could not carry out their jobs from home.
"This once again underlines that we bear different pressures to other businesses, many of whom have and will continue to apply for support from the scheme as the government intended."
The Premier League club added they would continue to consult with stakeholders and the THST, "who share our desire to protect jobs".
Spurs also announced they will become the first club in the Premier League to provide equipment at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium for drive-through Covid-19 testing for NHS staff and their families.
Newcastle United, Bournemouth and Norwich City are among the Premier League clubs to announce they will furlough some non-playing staff.
Leaders Liverpool have already reversed their decision to place some non-playing staff on temporary leave and apologised to fans following a fierce backlash.
Post by: Mister E on April 13, 2020, 06:44:35 PM
... As I've said before if the season can't finish by the end on June I don't see how they can ensure a fair resolution. If they try do push this through I'd be very interested to see what they offer to clubs to enable it. Other than Liverpool who benefits from finishing the season from this point? I can't see anyone in the bottom 6 agreeing to it, I doubt many of the midtable teams will care much either way and I don't see much benefit to Man City or Leicester. The only counter arguments are money related so again this comes down to an argument between finances and integrityDefine fair - it all depends on your perspective and your interests in the matter.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 13, 2020, 06:51:09 PM
... As I've said before if the season can't finish by the end on June I don't see how they can ensure a fair resolution. If they try do push this through I'd be very interested to see what they offer to clubs to enable it. Other than Liverpool who benefits from finishing the season from this point? I can't see anyone in the bottom 6 agreeing to it, I doubt many of the midtable teams will care much either way and I don't see much benefit to Man City or Leicester. The only counter arguments are money related so again this comes down to an argument between finances and integrityDefine fair - it all depends on your perspective and your interests in the matter.
I would have thought it refers to the first paragraph and the comment on out of contract players.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 13, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 13, 2020, 07:52:44 PM
... As I've said before if the season can't finish by the end on June I don't see how they can ensure a fair resolution. If they try do push this through I'd be very interested to see what they offer to clubs to enable it. Other than Liverpool who benefits from finishing the season from this point? I can't see anyone in the bottom 6 agreeing to it, I doubt many of the midtable teams will care much either way and I don't see much benefit to Man City or Leicester. The only counter arguments are money related so again this comes down to an argument between finances and integrityDefine fair - it all depends on your perspective and your interests in the matter.
Fair in this circumstance is under the same conditions as the clubs were given last August. If the season could be finished before the end of June it's the closest thing to fair that can be achieved (an unscheduled 1-2month break will inevitably have an impact that was never considered) but anything beyond that point triggers the problems I mentioned in the first paragraph and I then don't see how it can be considered a fair conclusion.
Post by: Dominic22 on April 13, 2020, 08:41:50 PM
I relation to football, it does not look likely that organized training could start until mid-summer. Lots of the foreign players in the league are in their own countries with family and a simple issue cant travel back.... Football is going to be a trigger for lots of people that life is normal, it's not, and will not be for a few months yet. I can't see them being allowed to start no matter who much they stick there head in the sand as a sport
Post by: andyh on April 13, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Lockdown till 11th May and then a gradual lifting to allow schools and colleges to reopen.
BUT., bars, restaurants, clubs, cinemas and festivals can not reopen before mid July.
I’m guessing this applies to football as well?
Post by: walsall villain on April 13, 2020, 08:49:28 PM
France has issued what is like a lockdown exit strategy.You’d think so. There’s a view out there that no return to ‘normality’ is possible until a vaccine is found and ready. If that’s correct then you can forget football with fans in attendance for 2020. Not sure when the penny will drop with those running the game.
Lockdown till 11th May and then a gradual lifting to allow schools and colleges to reopen.
BUT., bars, restaurants, clubs, cinemas and festivals can not reopen before mid July.
I’m guessing this applies to football as well?
Post by: Brassneck on April 13, 2020, 11:31:33 PM
For clarification, my position has always been and still is that, if you cannot finish the season in the manner it was intended when it started, it should be abandoned and cancelled. Points I have raised are merely to discuss the problems of continuing the season in any other manner. I thought I had been clear but obviously not. As I have been told that I do not know what I am talking about and should leave the discussion, perhaps I should leave it to the 'experts'.
I too believe that, if you cannot finish the season in the manner it was intended when it started, it should be abandoned and cancelled.
However, I am realistic to accept that there are strong arguments for playing out behind closed doors if there is a chance of doing so - Provided that it is safe and that doesn't affect next season.
Firstly, it would go a long way, if not all the way to ensuring that contracts are fulfilled. Therefore, it minimizes the financial hit that clubs will take. Secondly, it is the fairest way to determine European places for the following season and there can be no arguments if everyone is on board. Finally, it allows Liverpool to win the title - They could probably do so without picking up another point anyway. There is no requirement to relegate anyone so nobody need be relegated (as opposed to European places that HAVE to be determined).
You spoke about the legalities regarding playing behind closed doors when in reality, those legalities would be far more prevalent if the season was voided. They certainly weren't problems specifically connected with continuing the season. Even then, you were incorrect in what you were claiming. You haven't raised one valid reason why we couldn't play behind closed doors (the out of contract players could easily be resolved).
Voiding the season could end up being very costly. Furthermore, we would still be in a position whereby we would somehow have to determine European places, with Sheff U moving up to 5th if they had won their game in hand,
There is no straightforward solution to this problem and every option explored will have cons as well as pros. Not everybody will be happy with the final decision but by playing out behind closed doors, you will keep the most clubs happy.
Watching the news tonight and seeing a clip from China, I personally don't think we'll be in a position where we can play games in June or July. The return to normality is going to be gradual and in order of priority. Sport will be way down the list, along with pubs and restaurants. I think we will reach a point where the focus will shift to trying to ensure that we can get behind closed doors going for the following season.
Post by: Dinas_Caerdydd on April 14, 2020, 12:19:06 AM
who knows if the new season will start in August anyway
to me playing behind closed doors will not happen if this 2 metre rule applys anyway for a long time
Post by: CT on April 14, 2020, 07:23:35 AM
nobody knows how it's all going to pan out but at the minute but to me the only real answer is to make all divisions void
who knows if the new season will start in August anyway
to me playing behind closed doors will not happen if this 2 metre rule applys anyway for a long time
If you saw our defending at corners, we were applying that rule long before it became a government requirement. 😉
Post by: Drummond on April 14, 2020, 10:52:40 AM
For clarification, my position has always been and still is that, if you cannot finish the season in the manner it was intended when it started, it should be abandoned and cancelled. Points I have raised are merely to discuss the problems of continuing the season in any other manner. I thought I had been clear but obviously not. As I have been told that I do not know what I am talking about and should leave the discussion, perhaps I should leave it to the 'experts'.
I too believe that, if you cannot finish the season in the manner it was intended when it started, it should be abandoned and cancelled.
However, I am realistic to accept that there are strong arguments for playing out behind closed doors if there is a chance of doing so - Provided that it is safe and that doesn't affect next season.
Firstly, it would go a long way, if not all the way to ensuring that contracts are fulfilled. Therefore, it minimizes the financial hit that clubs will take. Secondly, it is the fairest way to determine European places for the following season and there can be no arguments if everyone is on board. Finally, it allows Liverpool to win the title - They could probably do so without picking up another point anyway. There is no requirement to relegate anyone so nobody need be relegated (as opposed to European places that HAVE to be determined).
You spoke about the legalities regarding playing behind closed doors when in reality, those legalities would be far more prevalent if the season was voided. They certainly weren't problems specifically connected with continuing the season. Even then, you were incorrect in what you were claiming. You haven't raised one valid reason why we couldn't play behind closed doors (the out of contract players could easily be resolved).
Voiding the season could end up being very costly. Furthermore, we would still be in a position whereby we would somehow have to determine European places, with Sheff U moving up to 5th if they had won their game in hand,
There is no straightforward solution to this problem and every option explored will have cons as well as pros. Not everybody will be happy with the final decision but by playing out behind closed doors, you will keep the most clubs happy.
Watching the news tonight and seeing a clip from China, I personally don't think we'll be in a position where we can play games in June or July. The return to normality is going to be gradual and in order of priority. Sport will be way down the list, along with pubs and restaurants. I think we will reach a point where the focus will shift to trying to ensure that we can get behind closed doors going for the following season.
Re the players situations being easily resolved.
I'm not sure how it would be so easy. If a player has a contract until 30th June and another with another club from 1st July, on more money, why would he risk the second by asking to extend the first? He wouldn't. The second club also wouldn't want him being risked. There's nothing in Employment Law to force an employee to stay beyond their contract.
Then take the case of a club wanting to offload a player who was crap (say Drinkwater) but that would then affect their playing squad. What happens? He might insist he wants a longer deal than offered to stay on, otherwise he'll leave. He then leaves and our squad is potentially short of a player (that admittedly we didn't want) for crucial games. How do we replace him?
If the rules are then changed re naming squads etc, then clubs would argue that it wasn't a level playing field as they'd had to adjust (or other teams had or hadn't) in order to try and finish.
Then you've the players who feel their Health and Safety might be at risk playing, even behind closed doors, because you know, Jack Grealish, Kyle Walker or Declan Rice and others (along with the other staff too) might have decided to flout the rules and go out. They'd refuse to play and under Health and Safety and Employment Law they'd be protected.
So it's not as easy as you may think I'm afraid.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 11:17:45 AM
Assuming that clubs vote to continue after 1 July, notwithstanding the fact that squads cannot bring additions to the list submitted in January (as we've discovered with Wesley & Heaton), the league can simply suspend registrations. Players out of contract will then either have the choice of playing the season out on a week by week/temporary contract or sitting it out completely with no income.
A club is in a position to offload a loan player if it wants but obviously would not be able to replace him. If he's crap as you suggest then he'd be no loss anyway. If it's that important, then keep him, as you would in normal circumstances for the last few weeks of a season.
Rules would only be changed by resolution (agreement by clubs)
There is no health and safety risk. For the 333rd time - I, nor anyone else is suggesting that games should be played if there is a risk to health and safety - Nor for that matter would games be permitted to take place.
Post by: sid1964 on April 14, 2020, 12:02:20 PM
Maybe they should enforce a ban on spitting and that awful cleaning out their nostrils (i do not know when that disgusting habit became acceptable)
Post by: andyh on April 14, 2020, 12:13:33 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 14, 2020, 12:25:48 PM
It really is.
Assuming that clubs vote to continue after 1 July, notwithstanding the fact that squads cannot bring additions to the list submitted in January (as we've discovered with Wesley & Heaton), the league can simply suspend registrations. Players out of contract will then either have the choice of playing the season out on a week by week/temporary contract or sitting it out completely with no income.
A club is in a position to offload a loan player if it wants but obviously would not be able to replace him. If he's crap as you suggest then he'd be no loss anyway. If it's that important, then keep him, as you would in normal circumstances for the last few weeks of a season.
Rules would only be changed by resolution (agreement by clubs)
There is no health and safety risk. For the 333rd time - I, nor anyone else is suggesting that games should be played if there is a risk to health and safety - Nor for that matter would games be permitted to take place.
The whole suspending registrations thing.
That would go down well with a PFA that will already be jumpy about getting players to play behind close doors.
I don't think strongarming people over their careers is really going to work.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 12:34:36 PM
It really is.
Assuming that clubs vote to continue after 1 July, notwithstanding the fact that squads cannot bring additions to the list submitted in January (as we've discovered with Wesley & Heaton), the league can simply suspend registrations. Players out of contract will then either have the choice of playing the season out on a week by week/temporary contract or sitting it out completely with no income.
A club is in a position to offload a loan player if it wants but obviously would not be able to replace him. If he's crap as you suggest then he'd be no loss anyway. If it's that important, then keep him, as you would in normal circumstances for the last few weeks of a season.
Rules would only be changed by resolution (agreement by clubs)
There is no health and safety risk. For the 333rd time - I, nor anyone else is suggesting that games should be played if there is a risk to health and safety - Nor for that matter would games be permitted to take place.
The whole suspending registrations thing.
That would go down well with a PFA that will already be jumpy about getting players to play behind close doors.
I don't think strongarming people over their careers is really going to work.
The leagues and the PFA will be singing from the same hymn sheet. It's worth noting also that players could also stand to lose out on lucrative sponsorship deals if the season isn't completed.
Both want a logical and feasible solution. Nobody is trying to strong arm anyone. Even if registrations weren't suspended, players could not play for another club anyway due to the squad lists.
The league, the players and the PFA will all be looking to find a solution. If the season is extended, it makes perfect sense to extend the date for registrations. This isn't strong arming or threatening anyone - It is simply applying common sense. How many players are we talking about anyway? It's more likely to be a problem in the EFL.
Post by: LeeB on April 14, 2020, 01:21:34 PM
Ok mate, if you say so.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 01:27:30 PM
"The leagues and the PFA will be singing from the same hymn sheet"
Ok mate, if you say so.
I do mate.
Post by: paul_e on April 14, 2020, 01:41:19 PM
It really is.
Assuming that clubs vote to continue after 1 July, notwithstanding the fact that squads cannot bring additions to the list submitted in January (as we've discovered with Wesley & Heaton), the league can simply suspend registrations. Players out of contract will then either have the choice of playing the season out on a week by week/temporary contract or sitting it out completely with no income.
A club is in a position to offload a loan player if it wants but obviously would not be able to replace him. If he's crap as you suggest then he'd be no loss anyway. If it's that important, then keep him, as you would in normal circumstances for the last few weeks of a season.
Rules would only be changed by resolution (agreement by clubs)
There is no health and safety risk. For the 333rd time - I, nor anyone else is suggesting that games should be played if there is a risk to health and safety - Nor for that matter would games be permitted to take place.
The whole suspending registrations thing.
That would go down well with a PFA that will already be jumpy about getting players to play behind close doors.
I don't think strongarming people over their careers is really going to work.
The leagues and the PFA will be singing from the same hymn sheet. It's worth noting also that players could also stand to lose out on lucrative sponsorship deals if the season isn't completed.
Both want a logical and feasible solution. Nobody is trying to strong arm anyone. Even if registrations weren't suspended, players could not play for another club anyway due to the squad lists.
The league, the players and the PFA will all be looking to find a solution. If the season is extended, it makes perfect sense to extend the date for registrations. This isn't strong arming or threatening anyone - It is simply applying common sense. How many players are we talking about anyway? It's more likely to be a problem in the EFL.
You're over-simplifying this, the registrations side is actually a relatively minor part of the problem. You still have the fact that players have contracts at other clubs that are already agreed, every single one of those contracts would need to be amended with agreement from the player and their new club, the League and PFA can't uniformly agree that on their behalf, particularly when many of those players will be coming from outside the league/country or vice versa.
Even after that, the registrations thing is an issue because you step into disagreements over restriction of trade (as is already being discussed in regards to the exact same problem in rugby). Without knowing the exact wording of the agreements and contracts it's hard to know for sure either way whether there is any contingency in the rules if the season runs beyond the end of June but I'd be surprised if there is something in there as a clause along the lines of 'squad registration restrictions apply until June 30th or the end of the final game of the season'. If that's the case then you'd need to get agreements with at least the clubs to extend it.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 01:56:32 PM
Ultimately, the league is run by its members. It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules. In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached. This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors. Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.
People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it. People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.
If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do. Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?
Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?
What are the sporting goals for finishing the league? 1. To see Liverpool crowned champions and 2. To determine the European spots. Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract? Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July? Do we know this? Or is it just an agreement?
It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what? The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.
If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so. There is a way around everything.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 02:08:55 PM
Rule T2:
Quote
A Club shall be at liberty after the third Saturday in May in any year and before the 1 July following to make such an approach to a Contract Player:
T.2.1. who will become an Out of Contract Player on that 1 July; and
T.2.2. who has received no offer from his Club under Rule V.17.2; or
T.2.3. who has received but has declined such o
Post by: paul_e on April 14, 2020, 02:34:27 PM
Possibly I am over simplifying it. However, people are looking to put brick walls in the way without really thinking things through.
Ultimately, the league is run by its members. It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules. In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached. This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors. Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.
People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it. People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.
If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do. Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?
Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?
What are the sporting goals for finishing the league? 1. To see Liverpool crowned champions and 2. To determine the European spots. Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract? Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July? Do we know this? Or is it just an agreement?
It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what? The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.
If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so. There is a way around everything.
For me it's nothing to do with Brick walls. I think the current status with the premier league is similar to government stance on a deal with the EU. "We want to do it, they want to do it and it serves everyone best if we can get on with it" but that completely ignores the minutiae of actually doing it. I do think there are ways they can do this, I just haven't seen anything from the announcements so far to suggest they know how difficult it will be.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 02:44:49 PM
Possibly I am over simplifying it. However, people are looking to put brick walls in the way without really thinking things through.
Ultimately, the league is run by its members. It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules. In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached. This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors. Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.
People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it. People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.
If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do. Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?
Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?
What are the sporting goals for finishing the league? 1. To see Liverpool crowned champions and 2. To determine the European spots. Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract? Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July? Do we know this? Or is it just an agreement?
It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what? The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.
If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so. There is a way around everything.
For me it's nothing to do with Brick walls. I think the current status with the premier league is similar to government stance on a deal with the EU. "We want to do it, they want to do it and it serves everyone best if we can get on with it" but that completely ignores the minutiae of actually doing it. I do think there are ways they can do this, I just haven't seen anything from the announcements so far to suggest they know how difficult it will be.
Well thankfully, there isn't a Corbyn like traitor figure involved.
I think you are being naive if you think that everything discussed on here hasn't been discussed by those involved in decision making. I'd venture that they've also held discussions with Government members regarding the safety and viability of staging behind closed doors games.
I don't think the powers that be can do any more at present other than to postpone fixtures. Nobody knows what the next 3 months hold so until such time as we do, it would be wrong to announce anything.
It is an impossible task and no decision will be received well by everyone. I see the arguments for all scenarios. If they do decide/manage to play games behind closed doors, I would imagine there would be some kind of consequential schedule that would cover all the points discussed on here - We'd probably find that Heaton & Wesley could re-join the squad as well. I see no reason why they need to stick to January if we are going past June.
Post by: Drummond on April 14, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
You dismiss everyone else's ideas as brick walls, yet seem to be calling everyone else ridiculous for suggesting it's really not easy.
Even if the clubs want to do it, who's to say the players will? Do the fans want it? Their team, behind closed doors, without all the players available.
An employee has the right to refuse to work if they reasonably feel that they won't be safe and could be in danger. I'd suggest that they would have every right to feel that their totally unnecessary jobs, if made to do them, would be putting them at unnecessary risk. Unless they could all be issued with hazmat suits to play in.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 03:47:41 PM
Hang on, this impossible task was a piece of piss according to you earlier.
You dismiss everyone else's ideas as brick walls, yet seem to be calling everyone else ridiculous for suggesting it's really not easy.
Even if the clubs want to do it, who's to say the players will? Do the fans want it? Their team, behind closed doors, without all the players available.
An employee has the right to refuse to work if they reasonably feel that they won't be safe and could be in danger. I'd suggest that they would have every right to feel that their totally unnecessary jobs, if made to do them, would be putting them at unnecessary risk. Unless they could all be issued with hazmat suits to play in.
Please point me to where I have claimed it was a piece of piss - Or have you just included that to add value to your post?
As I have stated earlier, my own belief is that there is no fair way to complete the season. Therefore it should be voided.
However, I see the argument for playing out the season behind closed doors. You still don't seem to understand that this can only be done if it is safe to do so. In that scenario, the players would be in breach of contract for not doing so.
Yes, it would be lovely for the fans to decide the outcome but it isn't really a viable option is it?
I do dismiss most of the claims as brick walls because the league can get round them as easily as you can claim I said it would be a piece of piss.
The only thing I'm bothered about is that Villa don't get relegated. I couldn't care less about anything else. That said, I seem to be in the very small minority who appreciate the desire to finish the season. I wonder what other industry would be prepared to write off so much money in times such as this. Our owners have both probably taken massive hits. It may be the case that they no longer wish to put money into the club at the same rate as before yet everyone is blithely wishing away millions of pounds worth of income - Probably the same ones who don't want to sell Jack for any amount of money.
Post by: paul_e on April 14, 2020, 03:54:39 PM
Possibly I am over simplifying it. However, people are looking to put brick walls in the way without really thinking things through.
Ultimately, the league is run by its members. It is the members who have the gift to implement and amend rules. In this extraordinary situation, it is inevitable that an extraordinary decision/conclusion is reached. This maybe to void the season or it may be to play behind closed doors. Either way, extraordinary resolutions will have to be passed.
People need to understand that nobody wants litigation and that everybody will be trying their utmost to avoid it. People also need to take on board that the league can do whatever they like with THEIR rules - They do not need approval of say the PFA.
If the league decide that suspending registrations is the best way forward then that is what they will do. Ultimately (in the PL) how many, if any teams will be affected?
Are we suggesting that we can't finish the season because Danny fuckin Drinkwater isn't available?
What are the sporting goals for finishing the league? 1. To see Liverpool crowned champions and 2. To determine the European spots. Are we to void it because some nugget from Burnley or wherever has signed a pre-contract? Are new contracts signed prior to 1 July? Do we know this? Or is it just an agreement?
It could be that one or two players can't finish the season - So what? The majority of out of contract players will be able to do so.
If the league decide to finish the season, no amount of brick walls are going to stop them doing so. There is a way around everything.
For me it's nothing to do with Brick walls. I think the current status with the premier league is similar to government stance on a deal with the EU. "We want to do it, they want to do it and it serves everyone best if we can get on with it" but that completely ignores the minutiae of actually doing it. I do think there are ways they can do this, I just haven't seen anything from the announcements so far to suggest they know how difficult it will be.
Well thankfully, there isn't a Corbyn like traitor figure involved.
I think you are being naive if you think that everything discussed on here hasn't been discussed by those involved in decision making. I'd venture that they've also held discussions with Government members regarding the safety and viability of staging behind closed doors games.
I don't think the powers that be can do any more at present other than to postpone fixtures. Nobody knows what the next 3 months hold so until such time as we do, it would be wrong to announce anything.
It is an impossible task and no decision will be received well by everyone. I see the arguments for all scenarios. If they do decide/manage to play games behind closed doors, I would imagine there would be some kind of consequential schedule that would cover all the points discussed on here - We'd probably find that Heaton & Wesley could re-join the squad as well. I see no reason why they need to stick to January if we are going past June.
but if you do that, as I said a few pages back, you're changing the rules of the competition whilst it's in progress. Given the finances involved in european places and relegation for clubs why would anyone who feels like they're getting the shitty end of the stick over that agree to it? For example do Heaton and Wesley coming in for Reina and Baston make us a better 25 man squad? I'd argue they do and that no other club in the bottom 6 has 2 players like that to bring back. Therefore we get an advantage over our relegation rivals which I doubt they'd vote in favour of. There are loads of tiny examples like this which make extending beyond the end of June difficult.
I agree they'll have looked at what the options are but I don't think it's naive in the slightest to be concerned that there's a lot of things they haven't thought through, suggesting I'm naive is giving a lot of credit to an organisation that VAR alone shows doesn't really deserve it.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 04:03:38 PM
I have always argued that relegation should be scrapped either if the season is voided OR it is played out behind closed doors.
My argument for playing behind closed doors is:
1. To determine the league chapions
2. To determine European places
3. To minimise the financial hit that clubs take.
The rules would have to be amended slightly in many ways (for example, the league table portrays both home and away games as per Rule C.3.2)
Surely you appreciate that it is much fairer to give the European chasing teams the opportunity to qualify? Relegation could be scrapped in either scenario as it isn't a must.
Playing out the season with no relegations is the fairest and most financially beneficial option.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 14, 2020, 04:05:36 PM
We've had a long break.
There may be less of a pre season.
Players will be older.
Players will be out of contract.
Games may be behind closed doors.
Who knows how it will pan out, I don't think the normal rigidity of them will apply though.
Post by: Drummond on April 14, 2020, 04:15:17 PM
Re the players situations being easily resolved.
I'm not sure how it would be so easy. If a player has a contract until 30th June and another with another club from 1st July, on more money, why would he risk the second by asking to extend the first? He wouldn't. The second club also wouldn't want him being risked. There's nothing in Employment Law to force an employee to stay beyond their contract.
Then take the case of a club wanting to offload a player who was crap (say Drinkwater) but that would then affect their playing squad. What happens? He might insist he wants a longer deal than offered to stay on, otherwise he'll leave. He then leaves and our squad is potentially short of a player (that admittedly we didn't want) for crucial games. How do we replace him?
If the rules are then changed re naming squads etc, then clubs would argue that it wasn't a level playing field as they'd had to adjust (or other teams had or hadn't) in order to try and finish.
Then you've the players who feel their Health and Safety might be at risk playing, even behind closed doors, because you know, Jack Grealish, Kyle Walker or Declan Rice and others (along with the other staff too) might have decided to flout the rules and go out. They'd refuse to play and under Health and Safety and Employment Law they'd be protected.
So it's not as easy as you may think I'm afraid.
It really is.
Wasn't that much earlier in the thread, but there you go.
Regarding your thinking of playing behind closed doors and being safe. Who decides it's safe? The Premier League, Government, Clubs? Because whatever they say, the players could have a pretty strong excuse for saying they feel it's dangerous. And in my view, they'd have a pretty good case. But then that doesn't suit your narrative.
How could the players feel confident in what was being done?
As an example. I work in social care, and have front line workers who are afraid to go to work as they think their health, and that of their family and loved ones is being put at risk. My response, as a responsible employer is that I'm following all Government, NHS, Public Health England advice and guidance by providing PPE, face masks, gloves and aprons to those staff who may have to work with someone who has symptoms.
Tough choice isn't it? And I can't guarantee safety, neither can the NHS because front-line staff are dying.
So, seeing as you're so hell-bent on holding your position, maybe for the simple ones amongst us you could explain what 'safe means' for players who will inevitably come into close contact with other people. Because that's the acid test, isn't it?
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
I would have thought it obvious to everyone that football will not be permitted until it gets the go ahead from the Government?
The world and his wife know what you do for a living - You've told us on more than one previous occasion. Why do you twist every argument to compare with your own job?
It isn't for me to explain or determine when it is safe to play - I'm only arguing the pros for doing so when it is deemed safe
Instead of me continuing to explain myself to every Tom, Dick & Harry - How about you coming up with your own skewed ideas on a solution and I'll rip those to shreds for you. Aren't you one of the "I don't care about football at the moment" brigade anyway?
Post by: aev on April 14, 2020, 04:26:19 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 14, 2020, 04:43:46 PM
No solution will be completely fair. I'm sure most clubs and pundits will argue playing the season out, whenever that may be and behind closed doors if necessary, will be more fair than voiding the season.
I very much doubt a few blokes on an internet forum will have thought of any difficulties that they are not already considering.
Hopefully they'll realise as time goes by it can't be done, but it's no surprise they're going to try.
Post by: paul_e on April 14, 2020, 04:50:35 PM
How would you determine the European places then?
I have always argued that relegation should be scrapped either if the season is voided OR it is played out behind closed doors.
My argument for playing behind closed doors is:
1. To determine the league chapions
2. To determine European places
3. To minimise the financial hit that clubs take.
The rules would have to be amended slightly in many ways (for example, the league table portrays both home and away games as per Rule C.3.2)
Surely you appreciate that it is much fairer to give the European chasing teams the opportunity to qualify? Relegation could be scrapped in either scenario as it isn't a must.
Playing out the season with no relegations is the fairest and most financially beneficial option.
European places, I honestly don't know, that's part of the problem, I don't see any way of determining them that is in line with the rules, etc as they were last August.
Finishing the season but having no relegation, how is that fair on Leeds, West Brom and the as yet undetermined play off winner? So we agree to promote the first 2 (and ignore the existence of the latter as some have suggested) then we have 4 more games to fit into a season that will, if games for this season are still being played in July, be starting later than normal and has no chance to be extended due to the rescheduled Euros. How will that work?
Minimising the financial hit, is it better to take the hit for this season and have a full season next year or to risk cancelling competitions and/or scheduling problems next year? For me from both a financial and a sporting perspective the best situation is to get back to normal as quickly as possible (in line with government guidelines). If the options are games for this season running into July and pushing next season back or voiding this season and starting up in August as normal (but maybe with crowd restrictions to begin with) then the latter is the sensible choice for the vast majority of clubs. You do then need to work out how to handle European places but that's the only unanswered question that needs to be resolved.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 05:02:47 PM
I suggested a 22 team league next season (that also requires a rule change). Regrettably, I see no way of getting a 3rd placed team promoted. If the season were to be voided, there could be no play offs in any case.
In my scenario, I wouldn't mind betting that all the European challenging sides would happily accept a behind closed doors finish - It has to be the fairest solution.
Next season takes priority all day long so if they can't get this season done by September, the decision is taken out of their hands. How they'd decide European spots would then become an issue although it might be that this seasons competitions carry over to next season.
As there are extraordinary circumstances this season, there would have to be emergency/consequential rules set up to accommodate the situation. Not ideal but not the end of the world and still paves the way for the fairest outcome.
Post by: Drummond on April 14, 2020, 05:05:52 PM
The particular argument over being easy to suspend registrations is not the same as claiming the overall decision is "a piece of piss" so as I thought, you just included it to add value.
I would have thought it obvious to everyone that football will not be permitted until it gets the go ahead from the Government?
The world and his wife know what you do for a living - You've told us on more than one previous occasion. Why do you twist every argument to compare with your own job?
It isn't for me to explain or determine when it is safe to play - I'm only arguing the pros for doing so when it is deemed safe
Instead of me continuing to explain myself to every Tom, Dick & Harry - How about you coming up with your own skewed ideas on a solution and I'll rip those to shreds for you. Aren't you one of the "I don't care about football at the moment" brigade anyway?
No, you dismissing it as easily as you do is because it doesn't suit your argument.
What you may think is obvious isn't as clear to everyone else, and with your arguments about how easy this would be I wondered if you had some masterplan up your sleeve to bypass the common-sense approach of no bloody football.
I have expressed what I do once or twice (probably more) yes, I hadn't realised people (including you obviously) were that interested and had taken any note (perhaps I'd rammed it down your throat too much) and in this current scenario, it's a pretty good yardstick to measure by wouldn't you think?
Your argument seems to be based on it being fairly easy to finish this season. In my view, there's not a cat in hell's chance. Because of the restrictions in place.
Your last point does you no favours. And as you're having to explain to everyone it seems, perhaps that indicates how ridiculous your idea is.
The solution as far as I'm concerned is to void it all and start again with another season. When the crowds can return. in itself that may mean a further delay.
We may lose a whole year of football, and play out the rest of this season in a year's time, with different players in different teams. But that' idea's just as ridiculous as yours.
Post by: Drummond on April 14, 2020, 05:09:05 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
I have no ideas - I only discuss options that have been mentioned previously. If you want to talk about ridiculous, how about your ridiculous inability to read what I stated many times ie no football to be played until it is safe to do so? How about the poster who claimed we couldn't finish the season by not having different scenarios at the top and bottom of the division and then wanting to do exactly the same in a voided season? Or the poster who didn't understand frustration of contracts and then ended up claiming the exact opposite of what he started out claiming? Or claims that we couldn't finish the season because players contracts run out?
It's nothing to do with not suiting my argument - I dismissed them because they were nonsense. It is not my argument that is ridiculous, it is the responses.
Even now, you still don't seem to be able to grasp that I am not advocating playing whilst it is dangerous to do so. I am simply promoting the merits of completing the season in a safe manner - Personally, I couldn't care less about any of it other than the impact it has on Villa.
The fact that you are making decisions for next season 4 months in advance tells me that it is you who is doing yourself no favours.
Post by: paul_e on April 14, 2020, 06:08:03 PM
I have tried to argue a scenario that keeps most teams happy.
I suggested a 22 team league next season (that also requires a rule change). Regrettably, I see no way of getting a 3rd placed team promoted. If the season were to be voided, there could be no play offs in any case.
In my scenario, I wouldn't mind betting that all the European challenging sides would happily accept a behind closed doors finish - It has to be the fairest solution.
Next season takes priority all day long so if they can't get this season done by September, the decision is taken out of their hands. How they'd decide European spots would then become an issue although it might be that this seasons competitions carry over to next season.
As there are extraordinary circumstances this season, there would have to be emergency/consequential rules set up to accommodate the situation. Not ideal but not the end of the world and still paves the way for the fairest outcome.
but you haven't responded to the most important part, if the choice is finishing this season but causing problems for next season which do you think should be prioritised and which do you think makes the most sense from both a sporting and financial sense?
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 06:26:10 PM
I have tried to argue a scenario that keeps most teams happy.
I suggested a 22 team league next season (that also requires a rule change). Regrettably, I see no way of getting a 3rd placed team promoted. If the season were to be voided, there could be no play offs in any case.
In my scenario, I wouldn't mind betting that all the European challenging sides would happily accept a behind closed doors finish - It has to be the fairest solution.
Next season takes priority all day long so if they can't get this season done by September, the decision is taken out of their hands. How they'd decide European spots would then become an issue although it might be that this seasons competitions carry over to next season.
As there are extraordinary circumstances this season, there would have to be emergency/consequential rules set up to accommodate the situation. Not ideal but not the end of the world and still paves the way for the fairest outcome.
but you haven't responded to the most important part, if the choice is finishing this season but causing problems for next season which do you think should be prioritised and which do you think makes the most sense from both a sporting and financial sense?
I did respond (4th line down). I have stated repeatedly throughout this thread that this season should not be finished to the detriment of next season.
I'm not convinced many clubs could survive what would effectively be an entire season without income so regardless of the sporting aspect, the financial implications need to take precedent. This season is totally screwed in any case. It would be much easier to start from scratch again in September. Why chase 25% of a season to the detriment of 100%?
Of course, it can't be guaranteed that we'll be able to play games in September. I notice that Spain have relaxed their lockdown and we're about 2 weeks behind them. It will be interesting to see when shops and bars are re-opened because that will probably be the point at which football can be played again. Personally, I think it might be a year before crowds return to games.
Post by: paul_e on April 14, 2020, 07:07:35 PM
I have tried to argue a scenario that keeps most teams happy.
I suggested a 22 team league next season (that also requires a rule change). Regrettably, I see no way of getting a 3rd placed team promoted. If the season were to be voided, there could be no play offs in any case.
In my scenario, I wouldn't mind betting that all the European challenging sides would happily accept a behind closed doors finish - It has to be the fairest solution.
Next season takes priority all day long so if they can't get this season done by September, the decision is taken out of their hands. How they'd decide European spots would then become an issue although it might be that this seasons competitions carry over to next season.
As there are extraordinary circumstances this season, there would have to be emergency/consequential rules set up to accommodate the situation. Not ideal but not the end of the world and still paves the way for the fairest outcome.
but you haven't responded to the most important part, if the choice is finishing this season but causing problems for next season which do you think should be prioritised and which do you think makes the most sense from both a sporting and financial sense?
I did respond (4th line down). I have stated repeatedly throughout this thread that this season should not be finished to the detriment of next season.
I'm not convinced many clubs could survive what would effectively be an entire season without income so regardless of the sporting aspect, the financial implications need to take precedent. This season is totally screwed in any case. It would be much easier to start from scratch again in September. Why chase 25% of a season to the detriment of 100%?
Of course, it can't be guaranteed that we'll be able to play games in September. I notice that Spain have relaxed their lockdown and we're about 2 weeks behind them. It will be interesting to see when shops and bars are re-opened because that will probably be the point at which football can be played again. Personally, I think it might be a year before crowds return to games.
September is, in my opinion, far too late to say they're not impacting next season, which is why I asked it again because I think you've hedged. For me starting next season as close as possible to the intended start date is the first priority, there's simply not enough capacity through the season to absorb a delay of more than a few weeks without risking player welfare. If that means next season has to start behind closed doors, or with limited crowds in some way then that becomes a new conversation.
Every day after the end of June is eating into next season, remember the preliminary rounds of the champions league and europa league take place in that exact window and whilst they don't directly involve English teams delays there will have a knock-on effect all season and English teams, as Wolves have shown and Sheffield United would likely see next year, aren't always that far behind them.
Post by: Brassneck on April 14, 2020, 07:26:13 PM
I think it’s feasible to start as late as September.
End of June isn’t necessarily too late as a pre season would have taken place prior to the players returning from this break.
If need be, the league cup could be sacrificed as it’s less lucrative than 25% of this season.
If they think they have up to the end of July to finish this season, then it’s almost certainly the case that they’re satisfied next season is intact.
Post by: Pat Mustard on April 14, 2020, 08:40:27 PM
When the cut off point is to finish the season is another debate.
I think it’s feasible to start as late as September.
End of June isn’t necessarily too late as a pre season would have taken place prior to the players returning from this break.
If need be, the league cup could be sacrificed as it’s less lucrative than 25% of this season.
If they think they have up to the end of July to finish this season, then it’s almost certainly the case that they’re satisfied next season is intact.
If this season can be completed by July then I think September is a realistic target for the start of the new season - some of the windows for international fixtures are already being taken out, which potentially frees up 4 or 6 match days. I also think we might just have seen the last ever League Cup final - I don’t see anyway of fitting it in next year, and with the winter World Cup in 2022 it could well go again the following year, by which point I don’t think there will be any appetite in the Premier League to bring it back.
Post by: OCD on April 14, 2020, 09:46:33 PM
And whilst many clubs and leagues and most of all UEFA might not like it in principle, I'd cancel all European football next season anyway.
Well they reckon Italy and Spain got it as bad as they did because of a Champions League game between Atalanta and Valencia so there is that argument. I imagine money will talk loudest though.
Post by: Legion on April 14, 2020, 10:11:38 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 15, 2020, 12:25:14 AM
That and the 3 flights a week from Wuhan to Northern Italy.And whilst many clubs and leagues and most of all UEFA might not like it in principle, I'd cancel all European football next season anyway.
Well they reckon Italy and Spain got it as bad as they did because of a Champions League game between Atalanta and Valencia so there is that argument. I imagine money will talk loudest though.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2020, 12:41:34 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 15, 2020, 01:48:31 AM
If it were based on flights from Wuhan, there are loads of countries that would be far worse affected than Italy but aren't. Pretty much all of South-East Asia, for starters.Google Italy Wuhan and it explains the connection and why Northern Italy has been so adversely effected.
Post by: sid1964 on April 15, 2020, 06:31:57 AM
Also after 35+ years of being a season ticket holder, I am not sure if I will be going back when the new season starts, I am really enjoying the weekends and to be honest I am not missing going as much as I thought I would.
I do wonder when they start to play again, how many supporters will stay away, because they have got out of the habit of going or will we have a situation where people are desperate to go and watch the team again?
Post by: CT on April 15, 2020, 08:03:52 AM
Cheltenham for the UK.
Correct. Driven by money, and nothing else.
Post by: Mister E on April 15, 2020, 08:47:45 AM
I voted to void it.
When we come out of this, we need a clean break and a new start; not some messy and half-baked retrospective.
Post by: colin69 on April 15, 2020, 08:52:43 AM
I cannot see the season re-starting and therefore no further games will be played - not sure how they will decide who gets relegated / promoted, that will probably be a decision by UEFA.
Also after 35+ years of being a season ticket holder, I am not sure if I will be going back when the new season starts, I am really enjoying the weekends and to be honest I am not missing going as much as I thought I would.
I do wonder when they start to play again, how many supporters will stay away, because they have got out of the habit of going or will we have a situation where people are desperate to go and watch the team again?
I feel like this too.
Post by: mr underhill on April 15, 2020, 09:02:27 AM
Post by: Astonite on April 15, 2020, 09:13:31 AM
Post by: Aldridge Villa on April 15, 2020, 09:24:43 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 15, 2020, 09:25:57 AM
That means training and social restrictions need to be lifted by 3 weeks from now, no later.
This all in aim for a June restart behind closed doors.
It won't happen. GOV will announce tomorrow that measures are the same as they are now and they will be reviewed again in 3 weeks time.
The chance of a june resumption for the league is next to null imo. In turn leaves them two options.
1) null and void - the only option that keeps integrity across all leagues and teams
or
2) current positions stand
Option 2 is a legal nightmare. Our game in hand will prove crucial. West Ham/Watford/Bournemouth all on the same points total also which i'm sure will be an argument.
Surely the league wont put themselves in a position where this once in a lifetime huge decision they have to make is then open for legal challenge............
Post by: eamonn on April 15, 2020, 09:26:12 AM
with economies around the globe decimated by the pandemic, I'd imagine money is going to be in sort supply.
Fire up the printing presses to ease the situation
Post by: chrisw1 on April 15, 2020, 09:54:06 AM
It's been agreed across the league that teams need 3 weeks (3-4 ideal) in preparation for a season resuming.If it's one of those two options it will be null and void. They have already set the precedent for the lower leagues and given their reasoning so it would be very difficult to go against that.
That means training and social restrictions need to be lifted by 3 weeks from now, no later.
This all in aim for a June restart behind closed doors.
It won't happen. GOV will announce tomorrow that measures are the same as they are now and they will be reviewed again in 3 weeks time.
The chance of a june resumption for the league is next to null imo. In turn leaves them two options.
1) null and void - the only option that keeps integrity across all leagues and teams
or
2) current positions stand
Option 2 is a legal nightmare. Our game in hand will prove crucial. West Ham/Watford/Bournemouth all on the same points total also which i'm sure will be an argument.
Surely the league wont put themselves in a position where this once in a lifetime huge decision they have to make is then open for legal challenge............
Post by: Baldy on April 15, 2020, 09:56:21 AM
A weekend festival of penalties behind closed doors at one venue to decide the outcome of all remaining Premier League games . All teams have a squad of eight players. Five penalties taken per team. Three points for a win, one for a draw. If necessary, total penalties scored becomes the deciding factor if goal difference becomes an issue in league position.
If time restraints prevail due to the virus at least this could be 'done and dusted' in a weekend and then we can hopefully proceed with the next season as originally planned.
Better to have destiny in your own hands then to have final positions determined by a committee with self interests!! Just a thought.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 15, 2020, 10:01:06 AM
Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but the Premier League season could be decided by penalties. Might sound stupid, but World Cup finals and the Champions League have been settled by penalties in the past and you don't get any bigger than that!!
A weekend festival of penalties behind closed doors at one venue to decide the outcome of all remaining Premier League games . All teams have a squad of eight players. Five penalties taken per team. Three points for a win, one for a draw. If necessary, total penalties scored becomes the deciding factor if goal difference becomes an issue in league position.
If time restraints prevail due to the virus at least this could be 'done and dusted' in a weekend and then we can hopefully proceed with the next season as originally planned.
Better to have destiny in your own hands then to have final positions determined by a committee with self interests!! Just a thought.
Not having a go or anything, but that's genuinely the worst idea I've heard thus far!
Post by: Baldy on April 15, 2020, 10:04:52 AM
I will go back to bed. :)
Post by: Des Little on April 15, 2020, 10:06:56 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 15, 2020, 10:55:58 AM
The one scenario that worries me is what if next season can't start? Would they then just wait and play out this season in front of crowds when it is safe to do so? If next season can't be played, they may hold onto the hope of playing out this season in 10 months time.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 15, 2020, 10:59:36 AM
For many things, I use Spain to gauge where we are with the epidemic. They are roughly 2 weeks further down the line than us. They have just relaxed lockdown but public gatherings still look to be a long way off. I'd wager they won't be in a position for football to resume in June and they have a 2 week start on us.
The one scenario that worries me is what if next season can't start? Would they then just wait and play out this season in front of crowds when it is safe to do so? If next season can't be played, they may hold onto the hope of playing out this season in 10 months time.
If this happens, I win the internet.
Post by: LeeB on April 15, 2020, 12:27:07 PM
Monkey tennis?
Inner City Sumo?
Actually those suits might work for social distancing.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 15, 2020, 01:04:48 PM
Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but the Premier League season could be decided by penalties. Might sound stupid, but World Cup finals and the Champions League have been settled by penalties in the past and you don't get any bigger than that!!
A weekend festival of penalties behind closed doors at one venue to decide the outcome of all remaining Premier League games . All teams have a squad of eight players. Five penalties taken per team. Three points for a win, one for a draw. If necessary, total penalties scored becomes the deciding factor if goal difference becomes an issue in league position.
If time restraints prevail due to the virus at least this could be 'done and dusted' in a weekend and then we can hopefully proceed with the next season as originally planned.
Better to have destiny in your own hands then to have final positions determined by a committee with self interests!! Just a thought.
Not having a go or anything, but that's genuinely the worst idea I've heard thus far!
Despite being a bad idea it is a quality post though. The bit i liked best was the 'Not sure if it has been mentioned before'.
Post by: LeeB on April 15, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Post by: exigo on April 15, 2020, 01:26:02 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 15, 2020, 01:26:17 PM
They could observe social distancing and every day after the Downing Street briefing, its over to the penalty shoot out.
One Two matchEs decided every day.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 15, 2020, 01:30:20 PM
They have alreadywith economies around the globe decimated by the pandemic, I'd imagine money is going to be in sort supply.
Fire up the printing presses to ease the situation
Post by: CT Villan on April 15, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on April 15, 2020, 02:20:34 PM
Post by: Allan C on April 15, 2020, 04:10:59 PM
I run a kids football team and have received an email stating that the league “have considered the FAs advice and guidance and decided that we will be bringing the competition to an immediate end. The competition will be void for this season.”Which is exactly what they should do with all football. It’s totally insignificant when people are dying. Football is the greatest sport, the most exciting, the most frustrating but it’s not worth one death
Post by: KevinGage on April 15, 2020, 05:05:48 PM
Monkey tennis?
Rugby first half, monkey tennis second half. Have the penalties at half time, so the takers don't feel too pressurised.
Post by: Seb_AVFC on April 15, 2020, 05:15:15 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 15, 2020, 05:26:58 PM
Post by: CT on April 15, 2020, 05:34:53 PM
Mirror reporting up to 9 teams want to end season by June and come up with a way of handling relegation/champs league..
Just watched SSN for the first time in a while. Said some EFL teams were days away from going bankrupt, some were struggling to pay wages for April, and some were considering administration and taking the 12 point penalty.
100% of clubs said they would struggle to pay the next three months wages.
One Chairman feared there would be no fans at football games for EIGHT months. This last bit is interesting as I've seen a lot of articles regarding bands and live gigs, saying there won't be any this year.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 15, 2020, 05:56:46 PM
Football clubs like many businesses are bordering Insolvency,Mirror reporting up to 9 teams want to end season by June and come up with a way of handling relegation/champs league..
Just watched SSN for the first time in a while. Said some EFL teams were days away from going bankrupt, some were struggling to pay wages for April, and some were considering administration and taking the 12 point penalty.
100% of clubs said they would struggle to pay the next three months wages.
One Chairman feared there would be no fans at football games for EIGHT months. This last bit is interesting as I've seen a lot of articles regarding bands and live gigs, saying there won't be any this year.
The rules regarding all Football related debts have to be satisfied to avoid disqualification or points deductions will not hold.
The new Insolvency Legislation 4th May ( new moratorium) will be seized upon by many Football Clubs, expect multiple Insolvency across the game.
Wages Transfer Fees TV rights and every other Financial matter will be changed dramatically.
The arguments regarding when the season will restart will be superfluous.
Post by: David_Nab on April 15, 2020, 07:11:35 PM
Post by: Dave P on April 15, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 15, 2020, 07:19:08 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 15, 2020, 07:34:51 PM
Quote
The SPFL will launch a task force to consider the possibility of expanding the Premiership for the 2020/21 season.
Post by: Des Little on April 15, 2020, 08:29:55 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 15, 2020, 08:33:57 PM
I honestly cannot envisage fans being allowed into stadiums until such time that a vaccine is available. Surely to God the risks of letting people assemble in such numbers before such a time (particularly seeing as the possibility re-infection has’t yet been ruled out) is asking for a huge rise in cases?I think you are right. I really can’t get any enthusiasm for football without any supporters in the ground but it might be a reality for a while.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 15, 2020, 08:54:39 PM
I honestly cannot envisage fans being allowed into stadiums until such time that a vaccine is available. Surely to God the risks of letting people assemble in such numbers before such a time (particularly seeing as the possibility re-infection has’t yet been ruled out) is asking for a huge rise in cases?
Exactly this, the thing that was never mentioned just a few weeks ago is now being widely considered as being a real possibility, that is, a ''Second Wave', we need that vaccine, the problem for us, the general public, is that economics and the fear of a global turn down of unbelievable proportions, could push governments into making rash decisions, no longer do we consider the human cost, the lockdown ends and we go for 'Herd Immunity' it spreads like wildfire, I could imagine we don't see a proper football season again until August 2021,
Post by: OCD on April 15, 2020, 10:12:06 PM
Even if mass gatherings were allowed again before the end of the year, how many people would actually go. Not the same number as there would be in normal circumstances.
Post by: Des Little on April 15, 2020, 10:25:42 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2020, 11:07:09 PM
Partick relegated despite having a game in hand over the team above them.
After Dundee changed their vote.
Post by: andyh on April 15, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
Post by: sid1964 on April 16, 2020, 06:40:32 AM
In the leagues below - top team promoted, bottom team relegated
In Scotland, i think that 1 of the teams relegated had games in hand on the teams above them, and they still went down!
I think that a fair few EFL teams will go into administration, and I would not be surprised to see a couple from the Premier League do the same
There are going to be major changes in football and maybe this is a chance for the clubs to pay players a lot less in the future.
Post by: mr underhill on April 16, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
Post by: frank black on April 16, 2020, 09:16:22 AM
Post by: OzVilla on April 16, 2020, 09:43:40 AM
Post by: nick harper on April 16, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
The Times has looked at the different approaches to determining the final table including points per game, using the first 19 games of the season only, and even predicting the final fixtures using home and away form. Every one has us relegated, Norwich and either Bournemouth or Watford.
The champions league places would also be the same apart from Sheffield United getting a place in one of the scenarios.
It would need at least 6 clubs to vote against if any of these solutions were proposed.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 16, 2020, 10:18:52 AM
Post by: aev on April 16, 2020, 10:20:51 AM
Post by: sid1964 on April 16, 2020, 10:23:10 AM
Post by: ROBBO on April 16, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
Post by: Mister E on April 16, 2020, 11:39:10 AM
Quote
A commitment to completing the season before the start of July is among the options being considered by Premier League clubs, the Guardian understands.I think this is highly likely. The only issue will how they resolve the outstanding issues.As I said in an earlier post, the focus has to be on creating a fresh start for next season - everyone should look forward rather than try to square the unsquarable circle that is the 2019-20 season.
The clubs are due to meet on Friday in the latest attempt to pick a way through the Covid-19 crisis. A resolution to consign the 2019-20 campaign to history by 30 June, whether or not the entire schedule of games has been completed, will be among the proposals put to the league.
According to some reports, one of the most significant factors driving the idea to finish by that point – favoured by a large number of the league’s members – is the expiry of numerous player and staff contracts by the end of June. One executive from a leading club told the Guardian he was relatively relaxed, with Fifa having issued guidelines last week stating contracts can be extended until such time as the season ends. But he admitted the subject was on the table, with other clubs worried that English contractual law would render the governing body’s stipulations irrelevant. That would lead to hundreds of potentially unresolved situations should fixtures be honoured into July. In theory, an out-of-contract player could then stand himself down from action even if still relied upon by his club for its remaining games.
If the proposal to settle the season by 30 June is put to a vote, the Premier League would require a 14-club majority to approve any decision. Should it go through, the chances of completing a 38-game schedule would appear distinctly remote. Most teams have nine games left to play while four – Manchester City, Sheffield United, Arsenal and Aston Villa – must play 10. While clubs in Germany have returned to training, that scenario is still some way off in England. Then there would be the issue of getting players match-fit ahead of what, even if the league was cleared to resume behind closed doors at the start of June, would be an intense schedule.
Curtailing the campaign along the proposed lines would not equate to voiding it if some fixtures remain unplayed, although it is unclear what efforts would be required to land upon a final league table that broadly satisfied everyone. Redoubling efforts to draw a line under 2019-20 would, the clubs believe, mean planning for 2020-21 could take place under less of a cloud and reduce the extent to which two seasons are hampered by the crisis.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 16, 2020, 11:44:26 AM
Post by: frank black on April 16, 2020, 12:07:42 PM
Post by: simboy on April 16, 2020, 12:12:11 PM
Post by: exigo on April 16, 2020, 01:45:59 PM
At some point (mass testing)we will all carry cards confirming that we have had the Virus, that will allow access to events such as premier league games.
There are already people reportedly catching it a second time.
Post by: Villan82 on April 16, 2020, 01:49:42 PM
I highly doubt they’ll relegate anyone from the PL if the season cannot continue but it also just pisses me of even more to think how insipid performances at Southampton, Bournemouth and Leicester have put us even in that discussion. What a time to offer up shite like we did.
We should have had 2 points from that, minimum. Why couldn't he make us hard to beat? Across the season we must have dropped 5-6 points.
Anyway, the game in hand could have taken us out of the bottom three. If they were to relegate us I think I would pack it in.
Post by: Ads on April 16, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
Post by: aev on April 16, 2020, 02:12:20 PM
“ A total of 141 people who had apparently recovered from Covid-19 have tested positive again, South Korea's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) says”.
Post by: phantom limb on April 16, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
This doesn’t sound too good either
“ A total of 141 people who had apparently recovered from Covid-19 have tested positive again, South Korea's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) says”.
I watched an interview with one of the main doctors there yesterday and he confirmed some of the patients they’d discharged have tested positive again, but they don’t know if that means the tests were inaccurate, whether they’ve caught the virus again, or whether the virus just went dormant in their system and then came back. Whatever the reason, it’s not good news and would certainly affect the return to normality for all of us, especially with regard to large gatherings.
Post by: frank black on April 16, 2020, 03:45:20 PM
At some point (mass testing)we will all carry cards confirming that we have had the Virus, that will allow access to events such as premier league games.
There are already people reportedly catching it a second time.
I think these are cases maybe when it never fully left them. They suspect you can only get it once but are still not 100% sure yet. Still testing/researching
Post by: Villan82 on April 16, 2020, 03:49:54 PM
This doesn’t sound too good either
“ A total of 141 people who had apparently recovered from Covid-19 have tested positive again, South Korea's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) says”.
I watched an interview with one of the main doctors there yesterday and he confirmed some of the patients they’d discharged have tested positive again, but they don’t know if that means the tests were inaccurate, whether they’ve caught the virus again, or whether the virus just went dormant in their system and then came back. Whatever the reason, it’s not good news and would certainly affect the return to normality for all of us, especially with regard to large gatherings.
What does this mean for a vaccine? Can't be good, one would have thought?
Post by: frank black on April 16, 2020, 03:55:43 PM
This doesn’t sound too good either
“ A total of 141 people who had apparently recovered from Covid-19 have tested positive again, South Korea's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) says”.
I watched an interview with one of the main doctors there yesterday and he confirmed some of the patients they’d discharged have tested positive again, but they don’t know if that means the tests were inaccurate, whether they’ve caught the virus again, or whether the virus just went dormant in their system and then came back. Whatever the reason, it’s not good news and would certainly affect the return to normality for all of us, especially with regard to large gatherings.
What does this mean for a vaccine? Can't be good, one would have thought?
It’s entirely possible we will not get a reliable vaccine as we don’t have one for some other coronavirus. The so called herd immunity is probably where we may end up.
Post by: brian green on April 16, 2020, 03:59:59 PM
Post by: frank black on April 16, 2020, 04:11:55 PM
Which is the exit strategy.
Yep agree. Just not good for them to tell everyone that yet.
Post by: olaftab on April 16, 2020, 04:54:51 PM
Post by: Ads on April 16, 2020, 05:00:58 PM
Or mitigation drugs including blood plasma from recovered patients.
There's a study in Cardiff starting today or this week I think.
Post by: mr underhill on April 16, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 16, 2020, 05:34:48 PM
I think mitigation will come long before any vaccine and that will be the point where we can return to a semblance of normality, with suspected cases being given whatever drug concoction they come up with and being told to rest and complete the treatment, much like we do with many illnesses that were considered deadly before their mitigation drugs were found.
I suspect that will come over the summer given the sheer number of labs working on this right now.
Post by: andyh on April 16, 2020, 05:48:04 PM
Anyone else read Terry's comment that he's heard no fans in stadiums until at least Christmas?Yes. It’s just getting a bit silly.
Post by: colin69 on April 16, 2020, 06:30:39 PM
Anyone else read Terry's comment that he's heard no fans in stadiums until at least Christmas?Yes. It’s just getting a bit silly.
Silly?
Post by: JJ-AV on April 16, 2020, 06:35:12 PM
It's still relatively unknown how accurate the tests are.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 16, 2020, 09:27:14 PM
There's 10 games to play. A huge part of the season. Mathematical solutions don't work. Football isn't played on paper.
Yeah, true, but it isn't played at all in conditions like these.
I just think it is fantasy for them even to think they could play out the season in those timeframes.
If you look at what is likely to happen when we emerge from this, it will be phased and gradual. During that time period, the government is still going to be telling a large part of the population that they need to stay at home, socially distance themselves, isolate if ill etc etc and preaching how important it is to follow that.
Now imagine them trying to keep that message strong and clear whilst allowing footballers to play a close contact sport - even if behind closed doors.
It just won't happen. In any phased return to normal, sporting events are going to be amongst the last things to be renewed, not the first.
This is entirely about money at a time when what is needed is to put human health first.
If we end up watching some sort of absurd, dangerous circus of an end to the season just because the league don't want to have to give Sky a load of money back, then that genuinely will be game over for me and football, it would be the money driven grimness of the modern game taken to the absolute limit.
Fuck that.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 16, 2020, 09:30:11 PM
There's 10 games to play. A huge part of the season. Mathematical solutions don't work. Football isn't played on paper.
Yeah, true, but it isn't played at all in conditions like these.
I just think it is fantasy for them even to think they could play out the season in those timeframes.
If you look at what is likely to happen when we emerge from this, it will be phased and gradual. During that time period, the government is still going to be telling a large part of the population that they need to stay at home, socially distance themselves, isolate if ill etc etc and preaching how important it is to follow that.
Now imagine them trying to keep that message strong and clear whilst allowing footballers to play a close contact sport - even if behind closed doors.
It just won't happen. In any phased return to normal, sporting events are going to be amongst the last things to be renewed, not the first.
This is entirely about money at a time when what is needed is to put human health first.
If we end up watching some sort of absurd, dangerous circus of an end to the season just because the league don't want to have to give Sky a load of money back, then that genuinely will be game over for me and football, it would be the money driven grimness of the modern game taken to the absolute limit.
Fuck that.
That penultimate sentence absolutely sums up the whole grubby business.
Post by: Legion on April 16, 2020, 09:31:25 PM
Post by: Legion on April 16, 2020, 09:32:18 PM
Post by: phantom limb on April 16, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 16, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
I think they’ll end up cancelling the whole thing and saying “well we tried”. Every proposal that we’ve heard about just sounds like unrealistic, dangerous bollocks.
I agree. Also, the suggestion to play games at a neutral venue is also absolute shite. Who on earth would want that, even if the fans cannot attend? Whilst there remains any risk at all, to anyone on the planet, football should not re-start.
Post by: tony scott on April 16, 2020, 10:46:13 PM
Post by: Rory on April 17, 2020, 12:41:01 AM
For what it's worth, I have always thought we'd scrape 17th this year. Not based on evidence or performances, but a general feeling that we'd just about have enough.
But reading a bullshit article on Fourfourtwo about players who 'should've played for the Big Six but didn't', going all the way back to the 90s, when there wasn't a 'top four', let alone a 'big six', I remembered everything I hate about modern football. Not the players, or even the money, but the way it is constructed. This groupthink that the rich clubs have always been the biggest and the best. That this is the status quo. It is all manufactured and utterly false.
Chelsea are giants of the game because they were bought by a dodgy billionaire. Man City because they're sponsored by an entire state's oil money. Tottenham because they are based in North London. Newcastle because they have high attendances in a one-club city. Liverpool's history is a selling point but Villa's is a desperate plea for relevance. The fact we're expected to support English clubs in European competition because of the notion that we're all investors in the product that is the PL. The suggestion that we should all be delighted to see the best players in the world playing in the division, even if it means they're tearing Villa a new arsehole.
I haven't felt like I'm a part of PL football for a long time, and have disliked what it stands for for even longer. I know it continues to matter to me because Villa still have the power to make or ruin my weekends. The only authentic thing about top level football is what it means to the thousands who turn up every week.
To me, the scramble to finish this season at all costs so that Liverpool can win a pot is nothing to do with integrity. It's part of that fabric of nonsense, the PR narrative that has established football as a product and a cultural institution that has been perverted to represent commercial interests and returns for the most viable investors, rather than a sport.
Continuing the season without fans is the latest but, for me, the most significant detachment of the game from the people who are its neglected soul - the supporters.
(In summary, bollocks to Liverpool.)
Post by: olaftab on April 17, 2020, 01:03:35 AM
Post by: KevinGage on April 17, 2020, 02:48:39 AM
There's 10 games to play. A huge part of the season. Mathematical solutions don't work. Football isn't played on paper.
Yeah, true, but it isn't played at all in conditions like these.
I just think it is fantasy for them even to think they could play out the season in those timeframes.
If you look at what is likely to happen when we emerge from this, it will be phased and gradual. During that time period, the government is still going to be telling a large part of the population that they need to stay at home, socially distance themselves, isolate if ill etc etc and preaching how important it is to follow that.
Now imagine them trying to keep that message strong and clear whilst allowing footballers to play a close contact sport - even if behind closed doors.
It just won't happen. In any phased return to normal, sporting events are going to be amongst the last things to be renewed, not the first.
This is entirely about money at a time when what is needed is to put human health first.
If we end up watching some sort of absurd, dangerous circus of an end to the season just because the league don't want to have to give Sky a load of money back, then that genuinely will be game over for me and football, it would be the money driven grimness of the modern game taken to the absolute limit.
Fuck that.
Aye, but bread and circuses. Keep the populace suitably numbed. Sport will play a key role in the delusion that we're returning to normal.
The current regime are all about buzz words, phrases and surface bombast. Fuck the details.
Post by: Ad@m on April 17, 2020, 07:00:14 AM
Basically anything broadcastable will get special dispensation to open up for TV/morale purposes before stuff like cinemas, theatres, etc do.
Post by: sid1964 on April 17, 2020, 07:25:11 AM
With regards to gatherings of people - there is no way that Pubs etc... are not going to reopen once the government gives the go ahead (possibly in 3 weeks), and I will be in there! - The major automotive companies will be back during May, so again if you work in that industry you will have a choice work or get sacked?
I suppose if and when football re-starts and they allow crowds in, which will be in my opinion when the new season starts - you will all have to choose if you want to go or not (the clubs will probably get you to sign a form online when you buy a ticket absolving them of any responsibility of you suing them if you catch the corona virus)
Life has to get back to normal and fairly quickly - as I was driving to work this morning I saw the bin lorry pass me and 4 blokes sat in a confined space (no self distancing in the cab)
I know the company I work for were going to re-open at the beginning of May (until yesterdays announcement), they cannot carry on as we are, and mass unemployment is the way this country is going, in a few months you will not be worrying about corona virus - you will be hoping that you have a job, and can pay your mortgage etc.
As a Manager at another business used to say to me (ex Para's) - someone needs to put their hand down their trousers feel their balls and make a decision!
Claret and blue face masks with a lion on - could be a big seller!
Post by: Richard E on April 17, 2020, 07:41:38 AM
Post by: andyh on April 17, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
Post by: andyh on April 17, 2020, 08:04:56 AM
Agreed. I think sport has got much more chance of restarting behind closed doors than other forms of entertainment.Seeing us lose, whether in person or on the telly only does one thing for my morale!
Basically anything broadcastable will get special dispensation to open up for TV/morale purposes before stuff like cinemas, theatres, etc do.
Post by: brian green on April 17, 2020, 08:52:34 AM
Post by: Rigadon on April 17, 2020, 09:05:48 AM
Post by: andyh on April 17, 2020, 09:27:34 AM
But, exactly what money are we talking about?
Is it money that Sky owe the clubs as payment for showing their product?
Is is money the clubs have to pay back if they don’t honour their commitments to play the games they have sold?
Either way, football needs Sky like Sky needs football.
It seems to me that they should easily be able to resolve any financial arguments because It’s mutually beneficial.
If Sky screws football over now surely they know that football will screw them back when it comes to contract renegotiation.
With new players like Amazon, BT and Netflix desperate to get a slice of the pie, Sky has got to be careful it doesn’t alienate its cash cow.
Post by: sid1964 on April 17, 2020, 09:36:34 AM
The Burnley chairman has already stated that they will run out of money in August if there is no resumption in football this season.
The clubs will do everything that they can to play the final games of the season - on the BBC sport website - Champions League final for this season could be last weekend of August
Hopefully all clubs will now seriously look at what ridiculous wages that they are playing these players and start to take control of them, this may mean that instead of the players having all the power, the clubs will now have the upper hand.
If you are player out of contract on June 30th - you must be wondering if you will get another club.
Post by: mr underhill on April 17, 2020, 09:57:54 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 17, 2020, 09:58:29 AM
Leagues Plan A - They really want to finish the season behind closed doors but it HAS to be done by august. With the euros next year they cant shoe horn in a full season any later than an october restart.
Plan A unlikely as we all know and reasons why
The interesting part was the plan B -
- Leagues finish as they are now
- no relegations
- top 3 come up
- larger leagues
Post by: andyh on April 17, 2020, 10:01:20 AM
I may be wrong but that’s how I thought it worked.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 17, 2020, 10:03:55 AM
Agreed. I think sport has got much more chance of restarting behind closed doors than other forms of entertainment.
Basically anything broadcastable will get special dispensation to open up for TV/morale purposes before stuff like cinemas, theatres, etc do.
Have you seen how much stuff's available on the telly right now? There's a new Tiger King for starters.
And I can't see any kind of numbers of people watching it after even just the second game of footballers trying to pretend that playing in front of nobody is anywhere near the same. Televised sport's all about the spectacle, the emotion, the interplay between actors and audience winging its way through the ether and down a bit of copper. I can't see it doing anything for morale.
Post by: andyh on April 17, 2020, 10:03:59 AM
I will share what ive been told - its come 3rd hand but who it came from was interesting so ill share.Plan B works for me.
Leagues Plan A - They really want to finish the season behind closed doors but it HAS to be done by august. With the euros next year they cant shoe horn in a full season any later than an october restart.
Plan A unlikely as we all know and reasons why
The interesting part was the plan B -
- Leagues finish as they are now
- no relegations
- top 3 come up
- larger leagues
I’m guessing that means Liverpool will be declared champions if that were to happen.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 17, 2020, 10:05:46 AM
Post by: luke:lamf on April 17, 2020, 10:09:52 AM
Have you seen how much stuff's available on the telly right now? There's a new Tiger King for starters.
And I can't see any kind of numbers of people watching it after even just the second game of footballers trying to pretend that playing in front of nobody is anywhere near the same. Televised sport's all about the spectacle, the emotion, the interplay between actors and audience winging its way through the ether and down a bit of copper. I can't see it doing anything for morale.
Agree with this. I tried to watch the Juve game that was on right before Italy locked down. Empty stadium, you could hear everything the players were saying. Turned it off after 5 minutes as without the crowd it's like watching a training session.
Post by: LeeB on April 17, 2020, 10:11:41 AM
I started off thinking that relegation was too close to 'predict', regardless of our position, but that awarding Liverpool the title was only fair.
For what it's worth, I have always thought we'd scrape 17th this year. Not based on evidence or performances, but a general feeling that we'd just about have enough.
But reading a bullshit article on Fourfourtwo about players who 'should've played for the Big Six but didn't', going all the way back to the 90s, when there wasn't a 'top four', let alone a 'big six', I remembered everything I hate about modern football. Not the players, or even the money, but the way it is constructed. This groupthink that the rich clubs have always been the biggest and the best. That this is the status quo. It is all manufactured and utterly false.
Chelsea are giants of the game because they were bought by a dodgy billionaire. Man City because they're sponsored by an entire state's oil money. Tottenham because they are based in North London. Newcastle because they have high attendances in a one-club city. Liverpool's history is a selling point but Villa's is a desperate plea for relevance. The fact we're expected to support English clubs in European competition because of the notion that we're all investors in the product that is the PL. The suggestion that we should all be delighted to see the best players in the world playing in the division, even if it means they're tearing Villa a new arsehole.
I haven't felt like I'm a part of PL football for a long time, and have disliked what it stands for for even longer. I know it continues to matter to me because Villa still have the power to make or ruin my weekends. The only authentic thing about top level football is what it means to the thousands who turn up every week.
To me, the scramble to finish this season at all costs so that Liverpool can win a pot is nothing to do with integrity. It's part of that fabric of nonsense, the PR narrative that has established football as a product and a cultural institution that has been perverted to represent commercial interests and returns for the most viable investors, rather than a sport.
Continuing the season without fans is the latest but, for me, the most significant detachment of the game from the people who are its neglected soul - the supporters.
(In summary, bollocks to Liverpool.)
Great post sir, and bollocks to Liverpool!
Post by: Chipsticks on April 17, 2020, 10:16:48 AM
I started off thinking that relegation was too close to 'predict', regardless of our position, but that awarding Liverpool the title was only fair.
For what it's worth, I have always thought we'd scrape 17th this year. Not based on evidence or performances, but a general feeling that we'd just about have enough.
But reading a bullshit article on Fourfourtwo about players who 'should've played for the Big Six but didn't', going all the way back to the 90s, when there wasn't a 'top four', let alone a 'big six', I remembered everything I hate about modern football. Not the players, or even the money, but the way it is constructed. This groupthink that the rich clubs have always been the biggest and the best. That this is the status quo. It is all manufactured and utterly false.
Chelsea are giants of the game because they were bought by a dodgy billionaire. Man City because they're sponsored by an entire state's oil money. Tottenham because they are based in North London. Newcastle because they have high attendances in a one-club city. Liverpool's history is a selling point but Villa's is a desperate plea for relevance. The fact we're expected to support English clubs in European competition because of the notion that we're all investors in the product that is the PL. The suggestion that we should all be delighted to see the best players in the world playing in the division, even if it means they're tearing Villa a new arsehole.
I haven't felt like I'm a part of PL football for a long time, and have disliked what it stands for for even longer. I know it continues to matter to me because Villa still have the power to make or ruin my weekends. The only authentic thing about top level football is what it means to the thousands who turn up every week.
To me, the scramble to finish this season at all costs so that Liverpool can win a pot is nothing to do with integrity. It's part of that fabric of nonsense, the PR narrative that has established football as a product and a cultural institution that has been perverted to represent commercial interests and returns for the most viable investors, rather than a sport.
Continuing the season without fans is the latest but, for me, the most significant detachment of the game from the people who are its neglected soul - the supporters.
(In summary, bollocks to Liverpool.)
Fantastic post.
Post by: Brassneck on April 17, 2020, 10:18:43 AM
It is not only SKY money for the Premier League it is the revenue they get from overseas TV coverage and other areas of the business.
The Burnley chairman has already stated that they will run out of money in August if there is no resumption in football this season.
The clubs will do everything that they can to play the final games of the season - on the BBC sport website - Champions League final for this season could be last weekend of August
Hopefully all clubs will now seriously look at what ridiculous wages that they are playing these players and start to take control of them, this may mean that instead of the players having all the power, the clubs will now have the upper hand.
If you are player out of contract on June 30th - you must be wondering if you will get another club.
The Sky money will probably be salvaged whatever the outcome.
The foreign TV money (which is quite substantial) will probably be lost.
With a bigger league next season, Sky will be able to cover more games, which will enable them to get alue for the money they put in this season. The same will probably apply to BT & Amazon.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 17, 2020, 10:20:24 AM
Post by: in exile on April 17, 2020, 10:24:26 AM
I fully expect something pretty similar in a statement from Premier League today
Post by: Brassneck on April 17, 2020, 10:26:27 AM
I will share what ive been told - its come 3rd hand but who it came from was interesting so ill share.
Leagues Plan A - They really want to finish the season behind closed doors but it HAS to be done by august. With the euros next year they cant shoe horn in a full season any later than an october restart.
Plan A unlikely as we all know and reasons why
The interesting part was the plan B -
- Leagues finish as they are now
- no relegations
- top 3 come up
- larger leagues
If 3 come up, that means the Championship will have to promote 3 and so on. League 1 is a nightmare, where 8th place can jump to 3rd if they win their game in hand.
Surely promoting 2 from each division makes more sense?
Post by: Brassneck on April 17, 2020, 10:31:48 AM
Not sure if they would be more go down next season etc. Just a snippet - wish they would sort instead of this dragging it on and false ideas of a restart
The current rules state that a maximum of 20 members per season. It would certainly mean more teams down for 1 or 2 seasons. I still think that only 2 should come up as 3rd wasn't guaranteed promotion anyway.
They can't sort it because like everyone else, they don't know what the immediate future holds. As you said previously, they had hoped to play out behind closed doors but this is looking less likely now.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
I will share what ive been told - its come 3rd hand but who it came from was interesting so ill share.
Leagues Plan A - They really want to finish the season behind closed doors but it HAS to be done by august. With the euros next year they cant shoe horn in a full season any later than an october restart.
Plan A unlikely as we all know and reasons why
The interesting part was the plan B -
- Leagues finish as they are now
- no relegations
- top 3 come up
- larger leagues
If 3 come up, that means the Championship will have to promote 3 and so on. League 1 is a nightmare, where 8th place can jump to 3rd if they win their game in hand.
Surely promoting 2 from each division makes more sense?
i agree. No matter which way this is sliced its going to be strange. Null and void for me is the only true INTEGRITY keeping result across the board.
Post by: Villan82 on April 17, 2020, 11:13:56 AM
I started off thinking that relegation was too close to 'predict', regardless of our position, but that awarding Liverpool the title was only fair.
For what it's worth, I have always thought we'd scrape 17th this year. Not based on evidence or performances, but a general feeling that we'd just about have enough.
But reading a bullshit article on Fourfourtwo about players who 'should've played for the Big Six but didn't', going all the way back to the 90s, when there wasn't a 'top four', let alone a 'big six', I remembered everything I hate about modern football. Not the players, or even the money, but the way it is constructed. This groupthink that the rich clubs have always been the biggest and the best. That this is the status quo. It is all manufactured and utterly false.
Chelsea are giants of the game because they were bought by a dodgy billionaire. Man City because they're sponsored by an entire state's oil money. Tottenham because they are based in North London. Newcastle because they have high attendances in a one-club city. Liverpool's history is a selling point but Villa's is a desperate plea for relevance. The fact we're expected to support English clubs in European competition because of the notion that we're all investors in the product that is the PL. The suggestion that we should all be delighted to see the best players in the world playing in the division, even if it means they're tearing Villa a new arsehole.
I haven't felt like I'm a part of PL football for a long time, and have disliked what it stands for for even longer. I know it continues to matter to me because Villa still have the power to make or ruin my weekends. The only authentic thing about top level football is what it means to the thousands who turn up every week.
To me, the scramble to finish this season at all costs so that Liverpool can win a pot is nothing to do with integrity. It's part of that fabric of nonsense, the PR narrative that has established football as a product and a cultural institution that has been perverted to represent commercial interests and returns for the most viable investors, rather than a sport.
Continuing the season without fans is the latest but, for me, the most significant detachment of the game from the people who are its neglected soul - the supporters.
(In summary, bollocks to Liverpool.)
Preach!
Superb stuff.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 17, 2020, 11:22:40 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on April 17, 2020, 11:56:32 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 17, 2020, 12:58:40 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 17, 2020, 01:06:07 PM
no one is going to be watching .
No change at St Andrews then.8
Post by: Clampy on April 17, 2020, 01:48:02 PM
no one is going to be watching .
No change at St Andrews then.8
Didn't they all sit two meters apart from each other anyway?
Post by: CT on April 17, 2020, 01:59:45 PM
no one is going to be watching .
No change at St Andrews then.8
Didn't they all sit two meters apart from each other anyway?
Exactly. You have to be fair to them, they were social distancing long before it was a requirement.
Post by: Billy Walker on April 17, 2020, 02:19:38 PM
...But reading a bullshit article on Fourfourtwo about players who 'should've played for the Big Six but didn't', going all the way back to the 90s, when there wasn't a 'top four', let alone a 'big six', I remembered everything I hate about modern football. Not the players, or even the money, but the way it is constructed. This groupthink that the rich clubs have always been the biggest and the best. That this is the status quo. It is all manufactured and utterly false...
Spot on Rory. I've often wondered who on earth controls this narrative? Does it just happen/evolve naturally, or are there actually people meeting and manipulating such perceptions? Maybe it's a bit of both?
I remember thirty years ago when a group of clubs proclaimed themselves to be the "Big Five" with Greg Dyke and a number of other executives dreaming up a TV money carve up for themselves. At the time, the teen-aged me thought to myself, how can they be the "Big Five" when we are more successful than four of them and we were European Champs not that long ago? It didn't add up. Fast forward thirty-odd years to today and I hear on the radio that the "Big Six" ("Big Six" according to who?) are not in favour of null and voiding the league...I felt my blood pressure ratcheting up.
It's all a load of bollocks. Maybe ourselves, Everton, Wolves, Newcastle (if they get new owners in) should rip FFP up, start throwing our financial weight around, buy the best players and do deals with the biggest sponsors? Why should we meekly fall back into an artificial system and pre-determined narrative that loads the dice in favour of six clubs? Maybe that will destroy the artificial nature of modern football once and for all.
Post by: Towser on April 17, 2020, 02:49:50 PM
Premier League clubs remain committed to finishing the 92 remaining fixtures of the current season but did not discuss a deadline by which play must resume at a meeting on Friday.
Clubs were expected to debate a 30 June deadline to resume play but instead discussed "possible scheduling models".
The Premier League said it "remains our objective" to complete matches but currently "all dates are tentative".
The league has been suspended since 13 March due to the coronavirus pandemic.
It is understood some clubs expected to discuss the proposed 30 June deadline at Friday's meeting but it was decided now was not the right time to do so.
"In common with other businesses and industries, the Premier League and our clubs are working through complex planning scenarios," the Premier League said.
"We are actively engaging with stakeholders, including broadcast partners, and our aim is to ensure we are in a position to resume playing when it is safe to do so and with the full support of the government. The health and wellbeing of players, coaches, managers, club staff and supporters are our priority and the League will only restart when medical guidance allows.
"Today's shareholders' meeting provided an opportunity to discuss possible scheduling models. It remains our objective to complete the 2019-20 season but at this stage all dates are tentative while the impact of Covid-19 develops."
Leagues are currently suspended until 30 April across England as a result of a pandemic that has killed more than 12,000 people in the UK.
On Thursday, the government issued a further three-week lockdown to ensure social distancing and manage the spread of coronavirus.
When and how football resumes has been widely debated across the sport as clubs face up to financial difficulties and the logistical issues caused by a late finish to the season.
The contracts of numerous players expire on 30 June, including those of Chelsea midfielder Willian and Tottenham defender Jan Vertonghen.
If the season is extended beyond that date there is a possibility clubs will lose players before fixtures are concluded.
World governing body Fifa is aware of the problem and is looking at alternatives such as rolling contract extensions.
The 30 June date is also an issue for clubs around agreed changes in kit manufacturers. Liverpool are due to change shirt manufacturers from New Balance to Nike, while Watford and Newcastle are also set to use new suppliers.
In a BBC Sport vote on how the season should be dealt with 39% of respondents wanted to 'declare the season null and void', with 28% opting to 'finish the season no matter how long it takes'.
Uefa has pleaded for leagues to give them time to return with their own proposals for ending the season across Europe.
Uefa, which governs the game across Europe will meet next week to further discuss plans which include potentially using the Champions League final to end the 2019-20 season on 29 August.
Lower down the football pyramid in England, the EFL has sent a letter to clubs recommending they return to training on 16 May at the earliest.
The EFL has not discussed a league restart date with the government but told clubs: "Our planning needs to be agile enough to allow us to be as prepared as possible for a start at relatively short notice."
What about other European leagues?
The body that represents Europe's top leagues says when football does return it will "no doubt" be played behind closed doors.
At present, the state of play in the continent's top leagues is:
Germany's Bundesliga: Clubs have returned to training but the season is still suspended until 30 April.
Spain's La Liga: There will be no training until emergency measures in place are lifted and La Liga president Javier Tebas says resuming play on 28 May is a best-case scenario.
France's Ligue 1: French football authorities are considering restarting Ligue 1 on 3 or 17 June, with the latter date the more likely, according to sports daily L'Equipe.
Italy's Serie A: The Italian Football Federation (IFF) hopes to begin testing players for the virus at the start of May, in preparation for the season to resume.
Post by: Villafirst on April 17, 2020, 02:55:13 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 17, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
Post by: aev on April 17, 2020, 03:14:43 PM
Post by: Ad@m on April 17, 2020, 03:27:12 PM
So, the Premier League hierarchy have decided to carry on with the premise that the season must be played out?? But only when it is safe to do so. They just don't get it do they? It won't happen until next year then.........how does this work with the minimum 2 metres social distancing??
To be fair, our lot were adhering to the 2 metre rule when we played Man City at home so it's not impossible...
Post by: LukeJames on April 17, 2020, 03:38:22 PM
I reckon they are just waiting for as long as possible before bowing to the inevitable.
Id say that aswell, I think if they were to just void the league there would be too much of a backlash but atleast now they can say they have attempted to put other things into place to finish it and none of them were able to come off safely.
Of course I could be completely wrong and they're genuinly being ****** about it but I'm hoping its the first example.
Post by: mr underhill on April 17, 2020, 03:58:04 PM
Post by: aev on April 17, 2020, 04:00:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on April 17, 2020, 05:08:04 PM
I reckon they are just waiting for as long as possible before bowing to the inevitable.Agreed. They are too cowardly to make a call now for the fear of being shouted at by clubs for being too early and giving broadcaster an excuse to clawback their investment.
Post by: Brassneck on April 17, 2020, 05:12:54 PM
I reckon they are just waiting for as long as possible before bowing to the inevitable.Agreed. They are too cowardly to make a call now for the fear of being shouted at by clubs for being too early and giving broadcaster an excuse to clawback their investment.
It was the clubs who made the decision.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 17, 2020, 05:27:35 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/52298377
Post by: mr underhill on April 17, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
Post by: john2710 on April 17, 2020, 05:40:26 PM
Emirates are currently trialing a 10 minute test for passengers before they can board their planes.
Post by: spangley1812 on April 17, 2020, 05:41:13 PM
So, the Premier League hierarchy have decided to carry on with the premise that the season must be played out?? But only when it is safe to do so. They just don't get it do they? It won't happen until next year then.........how does this work with the minimum 2 metres social distancing??
UEFA have told all the leagues not to abandon there seasons yet for there 1st Divisions/Premier League and all the German Teams are back in training now and are looking to start playing behind closed doors by the middle of May so the Premier League will wait to see how that goes
Post by: olaftab on April 17, 2020, 05:47:14 PM
Yes and usually those who participate throw the first stones. Scottish vote is an example.I reckon they are just waiting for as long as possible before bowing to the inevitable.Agreed. They are too cowardly to make a call now for the fear of being shouted at by clubs for being too early and giving broadcaster an excuse to clawback their investment.
It was the clubs who made the decision.
Post by: andyh on April 17, 2020, 06:28:31 PM
Post by: CT on April 17, 2020, 07:05:17 PM
Post by: frank black on April 17, 2020, 07:12:20 PM
If every player, official & support staff are tested as negative before every game then there won't be a problem playing the game.
Emirates are currently trialing a 10 minute test for passengers before they can board their planes.
The quick tests don’t work, very unreliable .....they may develop a quick test that works soon apparently
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 17, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
So, the Premier League hierarchy have decided to carry on with the premise that the season must be played out?? But only when it is safe to do so. They just don't get it do they? It won't happen until next year then.........how does this work with the minimum 2 metres social distancing??
To be fair, our lot were adhering to the 2 metre rule when we played Man City at home so it's not impossible...
To be honest I thought we played the 100mtr rule, us in the changing room, the Opposition out on the park thrashing us.
Post by: Louzie0 on April 17, 2020, 08:49:32 PM
I would suggest that each team selects one representative and the whole season be decided by a fish-slapping competition...
Michael Palin is Sheffield United (a fan)
We are John Cleese.
That could work.
Post by: exigo on April 17, 2020, 09:56:14 PM
When football is given the green light, combine this season and next. Everybody starts from their current point base and continues until everyone has played home and away twice over.
Not saying it's the perfect solution, but it's certainly pretty fair.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on April 17, 2020, 10:09:14 PM
Saw this suggested elsewhere.I suggested that at work pre lockdown.
When football is given the green light, combine this season and next. Everybody starts from their current point base and continues until everyone has played home and away twice over.
Not saying it's the perfect solution, but it's certainly pretty fair.
Post by: Legion on April 17, 2020, 10:10:41 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 18, 2020, 01:33:10 AM
I would suggest that each team selects one representative and the whole season be decided by a fish-slapping competition...
Michael Palin is Sheffield United (a fan)
We are John Cleese.
That could work.
The Human League are from Sheffield. They have a track called "John Cleese; Is He Funny?".
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 18, 2020, 01:38:05 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 18, 2020, 08:02:53 AM
Michael Palin seems to support Sheffield United AND Wednesday. That should definitely not be allowed.
Funny how he's got a reputation for being such a nice man and turns out all along he was a psychopath.
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 18, 2020, 08:37:34 AM
Saw this suggested elsewhere.I suggested that at work pre lockdown.
When football is given the green light, combine this season and next. Everybody starts from their current point base and continues until everyone has played home and away twice over.
Not saying it's the perfect solution, but it's certainly pretty fair.
As did I and I cannot believe it's not the obvious choice. All teams would have to do is play an additional 10 / 11 games from this year in a full season. Drop the FA & league cups if the games are deemed too much.
If we were relegated after a 49 game season then we would deserve it
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 18, 2020, 08:42:17 AM
Saw this suggested elsewhere.I suggested that at work pre lockdown.
When football is given the green light, combine this season and next. Everybody starts from their current point base and continues until everyone has played home and away twice over.
Not saying it's the perfect solution, but it's certainly pretty fair.
As did I and I cannot believe it's not the obvious choice. All teams would have to do is play an additional 10 / 11 games from this year in a full season. Drop the FA & league cups if the games are deemed too much.
If we were relegated after a 49 game season then we would deserve it
Wouldn't it be a 76 game season?
Post by: frank black on April 18, 2020, 08:54:18 AM
Saw this suggested elsewhere.I suggested that at work pre lockdown.
When football is given the green light, combine this season and next. Everybody starts from their current point base and continues until everyone has played home and away twice over.
Not saying it's the perfect solution, but it's certainly pretty fair.
As did I and I cannot believe it's not the obvious choice. All teams would have to do is play an additional 10 / 11 games from this year in a full season. Drop the FA & league cups if the games are deemed too much.
If we were relegated after a 49 game season then we would deserve it
Wouldn't it be a 76 game season?
Yes I mentioned this early doors. No, you just play next season starting on the same points as now. (No extra games)
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 18, 2020, 09:23:36 AM
Post by: andyh on April 18, 2020, 09:32:23 AM
Sorry but how's that fair on any team who's played less games this season?
Because we would just roll over this season into next, and as the original suggestion said, everyone plays everyone home and away twice.
We would still play our outstanding game.
I like it !
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 18, 2020, 09:41:56 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 18, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
Post by: frank black on April 18, 2020, 10:05:01 AM
So that is a 76 game season in effect. I was thrown by Frank Black's comments about playing next season on the same points as now (no extra games).
Apologies for the confusion caused. However, I would suggest that the games in hand get played first before the season gets under way, rather than play all the remaining games from this season.
Post by: Rotterdam on April 18, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
They are still keen for the season to finish, including the FA cup itself, apparently all clubs in the PL favour the 'play to a conclusion' whenever that is. The PL are planning on a June 6th start, finishing early August.
There would be a dedicated team of medical, player care, kit people, and a team of officials at each 'festival'. He did accept my point that if one person in that team or group of players contracts CV-19, then it puts the stop on everything.
He did suggest that potentially games may be played behind closed doors into December / January.
There is a potential issue surrounding policing and gathering outside of grounds, with people watching on phones and tablets, ala PSG.
It seems that the government are in favour of sport restarting asap, in order to placate the masses as they expect people to start ignoring the lockdown in the next few weeks.
Player contracts are a massive concern, but haven't been discussed at the FA. He admits players won't be loyal (why would they be) and that pay per week was going to be impossible for players to accept.
A final funny point, Liverpools deal with NB runs out at the end of June/early July, whereby they switch to Nike. So they may at some stage lift the trophy wearing a different manufacturer than they started. Who pays their win bonus? And how pissed off might NB be?
Anymore news, and I'll let you know.
Post by: Drummond on April 18, 2020, 10:31:48 AM
Saw this suggested elsewhere.I suggested that at work pre lockdown.
When football is given the green light, combine this season and next. Everybody starts from their current point base and continues until everyone has played home and away twice over.
Not saying it's the perfect solution, but it's certainly pretty fair.
As did I and I cannot believe it's not the obvious choice. All teams would have to do is play an additional 10 / 11 games from this year in a full season. Drop the FA & league cups if the games are deemed too much.
If we were relegated after a 49 game season then we would deserve it
I'm sorry but I don't think those cups should be stopped. The Premier League clubs wouldn't want them starting again.
I'd rather knock the UEFA Cup and Champagne League on the head.
Post by: andyh on April 18, 2020, 10:39:44 AM
Even allowing for this ‘festival of football’ being played behind closed doors, it seems the stupidity/loyalty/desperation of people has not really been thought through.
For instance, wherever Liverpool’s next game is played, if it’s a continuation of this season, do they not realise there will be 1000’s of scousers around the stadium?
Post by: aev on April 18, 2020, 10:40:39 AM
I spoke to my pal at the FA last night.
They are still keen for the season to finish, including the FA cup itself, apparently all clubs in the PL favour the 'play to a conclusion' whenever that is. The PL are planning on a June 6th start, finishing early August.
There would be a dedicated team of medical, player care, kit people, and a team of officials at each 'festival'. He did accept my point that if one person in that team or group of players contracts CV-19, then it puts the stop on everything.
He did suggest that potentially games may be played behind closed doors into December / January.
There is a potential issue surrounding policing and gathering outside of grounds, with people watching on phones and tablets, ala PSG.
It seems that the government are in favour of sport restarting asap, in order to placate the masses as they expect people to start ignoring the lockdown in the next few weeks.
Player contracts are a massive concern, but haven't been discussed at the FA. He admits players won't be loyal (why would they be) and that pay per week was going to be impossible for players to accept.
A final funny point, Liverpools deal with NB runs out at the end of June/early July, whereby they switch to Nike. So they may at some stage lift the trophy wearing a different manufacturer than they started. Who pays their win bonus? And how pissed off might NB be?
Anymore news, and I'll let you know.
One of the things I read this morning regarding exiting the lockdown suggested that those over 70 may still be locked down for ages yet.
If this is the case, what do Crystal Palace do about Roy Hodgson?
Post by: Risso on April 18, 2020, 10:51:49 AM
I spoke to my pal at the FA last night.
They are still keen for the season to finish, including the FA cup itself, apparently all clubs in the PL favour the 'play to a conclusion' whenever that is. The PL are planning on a June 6th start, finishing early August.
There would be a dedicated team of medical, player care, kit people, and a team of officials at each 'festival'. He did accept my point that if one person in that team or group of players contracts CV-19, then it puts the stop on everything.
He did suggest that potentially games may be played behind closed doors into December / January.
There is a potential issue surrounding policing and gathering outside of grounds, with people watching on phones and tablets, ala PSG.
It seems that the government are in favour of sport restarting asap, in order to placate the masses as they expect people to start ignoring the lockdown in the next few weeks.
Player contracts are a massive concern, but haven't been discussed at the FA. He admits players won't be loyal (why would they be) and that pay per week was going to be impossible for players to accept.
A final funny point, Liverpools deal with NB runs out at the end of June/early July, whereby they switch to Nike. So they may at some stage lift the trophy wearing a different manufacturer than they started. Who pays their win bonus? And how pissed off might NB be?
Anymore news, and I'll let you know.
One of the things I read this morning regarding exiting the lockdown suggested that those over 70 may still be locked down for ages yet.
If this is the case, what do Crystal Palace do about Roy Hodgson?
February just called, it wants its question back! ;)
Post by: eamonn on April 18, 2020, 11:09:45 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 18, 2020, 11:47:11 AM
Post by: David_Nab on April 18, 2020, 01:23:17 PM
That's this football season , I don't think the clubs really want to play , nor do the players but stuck with huge TV deals they don't have much of a choice it seems.
The point on Liverpools fans tuning up is a good one and goes for us , if we need a game to win to stay up I'm sure fans will congregate outside the ground.Void is not legitimate they say but no fans , perhaps neutral venues , change of rules ( No Var / New handball rule > not handball if its on the shirt line level) extra subs , weakened teams ..and even with all the testing if just one player is effected in a team does that bring down the whole league ?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 18, 2020, 01:34:58 PM
Post by: aev on April 18, 2020, 01:41:47 PM
As Henry Winter asked this morning, how come football reckons it'll be able to get hold of all these tests ahead of others that'd like one, just in order to get a game on?
Most of the sports journalists have as much of a vested interested as we do as fans. No football, nothing to write about. Henry Winter is behind a firewall so I haven’t read what he has said, but from tweets in the past he (and others) haven’t been asking the most obvious question which is why does football think it can operate in a way different to every other industry?
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 18, 2020, 01:49:42 PM
As Henry Winter asked this morning, how come football reckons it'll be able to get hold of all these tests ahead of others that'd like one, just in order to get a game on?
Most of the sports journalists have as much of a vested interested as we do as fans. No football, nothing to write about. Henry Winter is behind a firewall so I have read what he has said, but from tweets in the past he (and others) haven’t been asking the most obvious question which is why does football think it can operate in a way different to every other industry?
It always does. Everyday rules don't apply to football.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 18, 2020, 02:11:07 PM
As Henry Winter asked this morning, how come football reckons it'll be able to get hold of all these tests ahead of others that'd like one, just in order to get a game on?
Most of the sports journalists have as much of a vested interested as we do as fans. No football, nothing to write about. Henry Winter is behind a firewall so I haven’t read what he has said, but from tweets in the past he (and others) haven’t been asking the most obvious question which is why does football think it can operate in a way different to every other industry?
He was on the Today programme's sport segment this morning. I'm not paying to read something when I can get 'the real truth' on Facebook for nothing!
Post by: olaftab on April 18, 2020, 02:48:37 PM
Post by: andyh on April 18, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
Thanks for the info Rotterdam. Nothing will go ahead unless it falls into a government exit phase as anything else will be outside the law and there will be no valid insurance cover.Absolutely right Aftab.
As I have said before, football restarting is not footballs decision.
Post by: CT Villan on April 18, 2020, 03:30:43 PM
Seems way more logical to just void the 19/20 season and start again whens the dust settles. Sadly, I think the decision will centre on money, not health.
Post by: frank black on April 18, 2020, 05:14:44 PM
Given that the swab tests have been accused of being wildly inaccurate and producing many false-positives and the incubation period of covid can be up to 24 days during which time the virus can shed, do the footballing powers-that-be have a crystal ball to predict which players or support staff will carry the virus and potentially infect everyone they come into contact with ? Plus, unless they do a serology test there is no way of knowing whether the corona virus infection was recent or old. So that's blood tests every day for all involved !
Seems way more logical to just void the 19/20 season and start again whens the dust settles. Sadly, I think the decision will centre on money, not health.
It’s the other way around. The swab tests are the ones that go to the labs and are accurate. The blood pin prick tests which give an instant result are the one that test for antibodies, these are vital for the masses and these do not work (yet)
Post by: Rotterdam on April 18, 2020, 05:38:51 PM
Thanks for the info Rotterdam. Nothing will go ahead unless it falls into a government exit phase as anything else will be outside the law and there will be no valid insurance cover.Absolutely right Aftab.
As I have said before, football restarting is not footballs decision.
My pal made he above point about it not really being the PL or EFLs decision. He also said that all parties are 'keen to be seen to be trying' to get the season finished.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 18, 2020, 05:48:45 PM
Void it or finish it as it is. There are no other choices that won't potentially result in more infection and death.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 18, 2020, 05:52:44 PM
I spoke to my pal at the FA last night.
They are still keen for the season to finish, including the FA cup itself, apparently all clubs in the PL favour the 'play to a conclusion' whenever that is. The PL are planning on a June 6th start, finishing early August.
For June 6th restart I'd imagine you'd be looking at players going back in to training in the first or second week of May. I just can't see that happening.
Post by: Colhint on April 18, 2020, 06:15:01 PM
Post by: CT Villan on April 18, 2020, 07:59:43 PM
Given that the swab tests have been accused of being wildly inaccurate and producing many false-positives and the incubation period of covid can be up to 24 days during which time the virus can shed, do the footballing powers-that-be have a crystal ball to predict which players or support staff will carry the virus and potentially infect everyone they come into contact with ? Plus, unless they do a serology test there is no way of knowing whether the corona virus infection was recent or old. So that's blood tests every day for all involved !
Seems way more logical to just void the 19/20 season and start again whens the dust settles. Sadly, I think the decision will centre on money, not health.
It’s the other way around. The swab tests are the ones that go to the labs and are accurate. The blood pin prick tests which give an instant result are the one that test for antibodies, these are vital for the masses and these do not work (yet)
Frank, not all antibody tests are instant result pin-prick tests, there are others that send a blood sample to the lab for testing (IgG/IgM and ELISA). Antibody tests will become the standard very soon as they provide additional epidemiological data not provided by the RNA antigen tests. In the US there are several already approved for use, though this was only granted in the last week. Of course this ignores the problem of faulty test kits which is also causing widespread issues around the world.
Post by: OCD on April 18, 2020, 09:48:25 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 19, 2020, 06:14:14 AM
Post by: in exile on April 19, 2020, 06:50:59 AM
Post by: brian green on April 19, 2020, 09:24:25 AM
Post by: Ad@m on April 19, 2020, 09:42:58 AM
The Sunday Times are today covering a story that it's likely schools will re-open in three weeks time if that's an indication of anything.
I don't believe that for one minute.
In 3 weeks time, the messaging will still be that social distancing is necessary to keep people safe. In that environment I can't see the teaching unions standing for their members being chucked in to the firing line.
Post by: Legion on April 19, 2020, 09:47:02 AM
Post by: walsall villain on April 19, 2020, 09:53:19 AM
My daughter who is a teacher has been told exactly that by the school head regards the union stance.The Sunday Times are today covering a story that it's likely schools will re-open in three weeks time if that's an indication of anything.
I don't believe that for one minute.
In 3 weeks time, the messaging will still be that social distancing is necessary to keep people safe. In that environment I can't see the teaching unions standing for their members being chucked in to the firing line.
Post by: andyh on April 19, 2020, 10:38:45 AM
Post by: exigo on April 19, 2020, 11:10:17 AM
BBC linky (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52339058)
Post by: saunders_heroes on April 19, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
My daughter is a teacher too. She thinks primary schools will return in May.
Not gonna happen according to a government minister.
Post by: Steve67 on April 19, 2020, 01:01:47 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on April 19, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
My daughter who is a teacher has been told exactly that by the school head regards the union stance.The Sunday Times are today covering a story that it's likely schools will re-open in three weeks time if that's an indication of anything.
I don't believe that for one minute.
In 3 weeks time, the messaging will still be that social distancing is necessary to keep people safe. In that environment I can't see the teaching unions standing for their members being chucked in to the firing line.
Think the final term after the Spring Bank Holiday could be a more realistic timeframe.
As for footbal, think the realisation is slowly dawning that this season will not be able to be finished without causing serious disruption to future seasons.
Post by: Ad@m on April 19, 2020, 01:38:54 PM
My daughter is a teacher too. She thinks primary schools will return in May.
Not gonna happen according to a government minister.
I know. That's really raised my hopes they'll be back open very soon!
Post by: paul_e on April 19, 2020, 03:28:50 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on April 19, 2020, 04:43:28 PM
All we seem to hear about are 'opinions' of people or 'source close to'. Too many people need a story to run so they can make money off it.
Getting sick of it all. This is not the football that I have followed most of my life.
Post by: PeterWithe on April 19, 2020, 10:03:27 PM
Post by: Legion on April 19, 2020, 10:07:49 PM
Post by: thick_mike on April 19, 2020, 10:23:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 20, 2020, 01:18:29 AM
Some schools are a part of multi academy trusts, where secondary schools and primary schools are a part of the same pyramid. In those schools they just open one of the schools and teach all the children of key workers and vulnerable children in one school and close the other schools in the pyramid. It’s a far more efficient way of doing things.
If LAs still existed in any meaningful sense I suspect this could've been organised much more effectively and universally.
Post by: CyprusVillain on April 20, 2020, 01:49:32 AM
As others have commented, many schools have remained open - I've been in school every week since the lockdown, catering to a maximum of five pupils along with two other members of staff. There is certainly very little expectation that we will see a significant return of pupils until June 1st at the earliest. And even then the priority will be Year 10 and 12 pupils who will (probably) be sitting national exams in May/June next year. Further, it is likely that the return will be phased in a number of ways;
1) Areas (apparently) less effected first, major conurbations second.
2) Splitting of the school week - we have 800 pupils normally on site - they cannot all be accommodated and social distancing practised if they are in at the same time.
3) There is speculation that teaching unions will not recommend members re-enter the school until we are provided with adequate PPE - given shortages and and the fact that health and social care workers must currently take priority - union consent for any plan until this is resolved is unlikely to be forthcoming.
Balanced against this is the obvious need to reopen the economy as well as getting young people back to education in a safe and secure environment.
Its worth saying that the outcome of the lockdown, and the curtailment of face-to-face education, is the anticipated aggravation of profound socio-economic inequalities in our city. I work in an inner city school in Birmingham - half our pupils are eligible for free school meals - an indication of relative poverty. Whilst pupils in more affluent areas, and with parents who have the means to mitigate the worst effects of the isolation induced by the lockdown, consequently they find themselves better able to cope with these difficult circumstances. The longer the lockdown continues the greater the educational advantage accrues to those pupils.
I'll be blunt - Britain is not an unalloyed meritocracy. Progress in school and exam driven attainment is primarily delivered not by individual effort and resulting merit but by the family you come from........and thus is dependent on the socio-economic status that your family enjoys.
In short, and on the whole, working class kids get working class jobs and the current lockdown we are living through only reinforces this outcome the longer it goes on.
So, here is my dilemma.
I refuse to return to full-time work in school until I am convinced that my employers can discharge effectively their duty of care towards me.
However, the longer the school remains shut to most pupils the greater their chances of social mobility are significantly undermined and the right to participate as a free and equal member of society is compromised.
Reproduce this on a mass scale and you are storing up considerable problems for the future.
To sum up......
Private self-interest verses the public good.
As someone once said - contradictions are the stuff of life.
Post by: sid1964 on April 20, 2020, 06:44:47 AM
Post by: frank black on April 20, 2020, 07:48:31 AM
Post by: Drummond on April 20, 2020, 09:51:33 AM
Post by: OzVilla on April 20, 2020, 09:56:27 AM
They talk about integrity but at the same time peddle behind closed doors at neutral venues. Imagine a team in deep trouble having a player test positive with a few games left, like this won’t be called into question.
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on April 20, 2020, 10:19:15 AM
I think I posted this on the OT thread before but everything I've heard suggests schools will be closed until half term and then it will be a phased return, with primaries back before secondaries and potentially schools running unusual hours, etc.Mrs MDC claims to be ITK and has heard the same
Post by: john e on April 20, 2020, 11:01:14 AM
Exactly, this all stoped when Arteta was diagnosed so if they keep to those standards just one positive test us all it would take.
They talk about integrity but at the same time peddle behind closed doors at neutral venues. Imagine a team in deep trouble having a player test positive with a few games left, like this won’t be called into question.
Surely that would mean no football until they have found a vaccine and everyone has been vaccinated as the virus won’t suddenly disappear
Post by: OCD on April 20, 2020, 11:18:43 AM
Post by: frank black on April 20, 2020, 11:32:33 AM
I fully expect this season to be played out behind closed doors and for next season to start behind closed doors. Not saying I agree with it, just that I expect it to happen....
Post by: in exile on April 20, 2020, 12:06:30 PM
I’ve changed my view over the past few weeks.How could the club sell season tickets that way?
I fully expect this season to be played out behind closed doors and for next season to start behind closed doors. Not saying I agree with it, just that I expect it to happen....
Post by: andyh on April 20, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
If there was enough testing going on, all players, staff etc. could be tested before each training session/match.I’m guessing that a number of hours would elapse between tests being taken and the results being known?
For every single person involved in any particular game.
So each of those people need to be kept in isolation until their tests came back negative.
The practicalities say that unless the game can go ahead without all and sundry being tested, then games can’t go ahead..
Post by: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
They can't. But that doesn't mean it wont happen.I’ve changed my view over the past few weeks.How could the club sell season tickets that way?
I fully expect this season to be played out behind closed doors and for next season to start behind closed doors. Not saying I agree with it, just that I expect it to happen....
Post by: andyh on April 20, 2020, 12:10:24 PM
And refund for this season.I’ve changed my view over the past few weeks.How could the club sell season tickets that way?
I fully expect this season to be played out behind closed doors and for next season to start behind closed doors. Not saying I agree with it, just that I expect it to happen....
Post by: frank black on April 20, 2020, 12:27:49 PM
And refund for this season.I’ve changed my view over the past few weeks.How could the club sell season tickets that way?
I fully expect this season to be played out behind closed doors and for next season to start behind closed doors. Not saying I agree with it, just that I expect it to happen....
Dunno, they will probably sell some sort of TV based season tickets for all the games home and away. Partial refund for this season I expect ...Maybe sky will take the rights to all the games next season and completely take over (which will no doubt make them wet their knickers in excitement) for a price.
Post by: OzVilla on April 20, 2020, 12:40:05 PM
Exactly, this all stoped when Arteta was diagnosed so if they keep to those standards just one positive test us all it would take.
They talk about integrity but at the same time peddle behind closed doors at neutral venues. Imagine a team in deep trouble having a player test positive with a few games left, like this won’t be called into question.
Surely that would mean no football until they have found a vaccine and everyone has been vaccinated as the virus won’t suddenly disappear
Well if they won’t cancel the remainder of the season then if they really, honestly want ‘integrity’ then it can only recommence under the exact circumstances under which it was halted.
We know it’s all about money though.
Post by: rjp on April 20, 2020, 12:41:45 PM
And refund for this season.I’ve changed my view over the past few weeks.How could the club sell season tickets that way?
I fully expect this season to be played out behind closed doors and for next season to start behind closed doors. Not saying I agree with it, just that I expect it to happen....
Dunno, they will probably sell some sort of TV based season tickets for all the games home and away. Partial refund for this season I expect ...Maybe sky will take the rights to all the games next season and completely take over (which will no doubt make them wet their knickers in excitement) for a price.
The revenue from season tickets is not to be sniffed at but it's small change compared to TV money. That will be the priority for the clubs, not the fans who attend the games. A quick fag packet calculation of 43,000 seats multiplied by the most expensive full price adult season ticket of £684 yields £29,412,000. Wesley's transfer was reportedly £22m before wages. Our spending of £145m on players over the summer was reported to be a year's worth of TV money.
Post by: john e on April 20, 2020, 12:44:57 PM
But I don’t think they will wait for a perfect world before they get going again
I think football will be played in some form sooner than people think and by that I mean before August
( it has been known at times for me to not know what I’m talking about and this could well be one of those times)
Post by: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 01:18:27 PM
Of course money plays a big part - how can it not as some clubs will be close to failing without it? But I don't accept it's just about money.Exactly, this all stoped when Arteta was diagnosed so if they keep to those standards just one positive test us all it would take.
They talk about integrity but at the same time peddle behind closed doors at neutral venues. Imagine a team in deep trouble having a player test positive with a few games left, like this won’t be called into question.
Surely that would mean no football until they have found a vaccine and everyone has been vaccinated as the virus won’t suddenly disappear
Well if they won’t cancel the remainder of the season then if they really, honestly want ‘integrity’ then it can only recommence under the exact circumstances under which it was halted.
We know it’s all about money though.
Assuming they work out a way to play safely behind closed doors in July & August - is finishing the season that way LESS fair than denying Liverpool their title, several teams (including Sheffield) their shot at a CL spot and Leeds & WBA their probable promotion? Is it LESS fair averaging points per game or voting on relegation as in Scotland?
It's absolutely not ideal, far from it, but given there's no perfect solution I don't understand the utter hostility towards it (stressing again the assumption they find a way to do it safely) other than the obvious claret specs. Can you honestly say you would have the same view if you were a Leeds fan? I think the vast majority of people who say they would are kidding themselves.
Reading various posts and forums, it seems to me that the majority of fans views on how the season should finish is directly related to how it impacts their club. We seem to have a large number deeply concerned about player welfare etc, but the reality is that is mainly because it suits our agenda as fans.
I desperately hope they void the season. But that's not because of alturistic concerns regaring the safety of players and stadum staff involved putting on the games. It's because I don't want Villa to be relegated. But do I think thats the fairest resolution? Not a chance.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 20, 2020, 01:51:16 PM
Of course money plays a big part - how can it not as some clubs will be close to failing without it? But I don't accept it's just about money.Exactly, this all stoped when Arteta was diagnosed so if they keep to those standards just one positive test us all it would take.
They talk about integrity but at the same time peddle behind closed doors at neutral venues. Imagine a team in deep trouble having a player test positive with a few games left, like this won’t be called into question.
Surely that would mean no football until they have found a vaccine and everyone has been vaccinated as the virus won’t suddenly disappear
Well if they won’t cancel the remainder of the season then if they really, honestly want ‘integrity’ then it can only recommence under the exact circumstances under which it was halted.
We know it’s all about money though.
Assuming they work out a way to play safely behind closed doors in July & August - is finishing the season that way LESS fair than denying Liverpool their title, several teams (including Sheffield) their shot at a CL spot and Leeds & WBA their probable promotion? Is it LESS fair averaging points per game or voting on relegation as in Scotland?
It's absolutely not ideal, far from it, but given there's no perfect solution I don't understand the utter hostility towards it (stressing again the assumption they find a way to do it safely) other than the obvious claret specs. Can you honestly say you would have the same view if you were a Leeds fan? I think the vast majority of people who say they would are kidding themselves.
Reading various posts and forums, it seems to me that the majority of fans views on how the season should finish is directly related to how it impacts their club. We seem to have a large number deeply concerned about player welfare etc, but the reality is that is mainly because it suits our agenda as fans.
I desperately hope they void the season. But that's not because of alturistic concerns regaring the safety of players and stadum staff involved putting on the games. It's because I don't want Villa to be relegated. But do I think thats the fairest resolution? Not a chance.
If there wasn't such a gap financially between PL and Championship, there might be a different opinion. However, there is and you cannot penalise some clubs to the benefit of others. The alternative is that you financially compensate those that lose out if the PL want to finish the season in any way that differs to how it should have been played out.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 02:17:09 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 20, 2020, 02:32:09 PM
I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.
I broadly agree.
Though in my view, teams that have something taken away from them, that they already have, is far worse than taking away something they don't. In this case it's a Premier League place.
For Liverpool, it would be extremely harsh for them not to win given it's a 99% chance they'd have won it. But they hadn't. However, the Champions League places were far less certain (barring perhaps Man City) and relegation also.
WBA and Leeds, although a few points clear, weren't certainties for promotion at all and a number of clubs would point to form swings etc.
Post by: andyh on April 20, 2020, 02:40:07 PM
With the mitigating factor of Leeds being............Leeds.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.
I broadly agree.
Though in my view, teams that have something taken away from them, that they already have, is far worse than taking away something they don't. In this case it's a Premier League place.
For Liverpool, it would be extremely harsh for them not to win given it's a 99% chance they'd have won it. But they hadn't. However, the Champions League places were far less certain (barring perhaps Man City) and relegation also.
WBA and Leeds, although a few points clear, weren't certainties for promotion at all and a number of clubs would point to form swings etc.
Post by: garyellis on April 20, 2020, 02:40:27 PM
I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
Post by: paul_e on April 20, 2020, 02:46:32 PM
In short, and on the whole, working class kids get working class jobs and the current lockdown we are living through only reinforces this outcome the longer it goes on.
Won't quote the whole thing but this specific line highlights exactly what needs to change as a result of this (and cannot be allowed to return to the status quo). We go out every Thursday and clap for the key workers, we have 2 hours of BBC Sunday evening calling the same key workers heroes for leading the fight against the virus and putting themselves in harms way to protect the country. These people are either the working class unskilled labour force or they're key workers that are absolutely essential to the running of the country.
Don't treat them like the former but then patronise them with hollow platitudes.
If they're key workers and heroes then make sure they earn enough to reflect that and don't need universal credit to top off their piss poor wages. If they're key workers don't allow them to be treated as expendable by companies that want to increase their profits once this is done. If they're heroes don't treat them like dirt when they lose their jobs and need a safety net. If they're heroes that weren't born here lets not thank them for their help and then carry on blaming immigrants for all the problems in the country.
"Working class jobs" are, as we can see in stark relief, no less important or valuable to society than many others so how about we just call them all 'jobs' and the gap between the high and low earners are reduced to reflect the true value to society they provide. This isn't having a go at you by the way, it's having a go at the sorry state of our society which spends 99% of it's time pretending a bunch of jobs are worthless only to clap them when that's proven to be bollocks.
Post by: frank black on April 20, 2020, 02:46:49 PM
I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
I disagree, if Germany (who seem to have a good handle on this Pandemic) can and will do it. Why wouldn’t we (albeit later on as we are not handling it brilliantly right now). I think the government will see sport as an important part of maintaining the public moral etc....back on its feet! Get the economy going etc....
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on April 20, 2020, 02:54:05 PM
TBH though, I can't see a ball being kicked till at least August so I'm fearing the worse now as regards our plight.
Post by: Drummond on April 20, 2020, 02:55:13 PM
With the mitigating factor of Leeds being............Leeds.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.
I broadly agree.
Though in my view, teams that have something taken away from them, that they already have, is far worse than taking away something they don't. In this case it's a Premier League place.
For Liverpool, it would be extremely harsh for them not to win given it's a 99% chance they'd have won it. But they hadn't. However, the Champions League places were far less certain (barring perhaps Man City) and relegation also.
WBA and Leeds, although a few points clear, weren't certainties for promotion at all and a number of clubs would point to form swings etc.
and Liverpool being Liverpool being Liverpool and WBA being, well, insert your own thought.
Post by: garyellis on April 20, 2020, 02:58:20 PM
With the mitigating factor of Leeds being............Leeds.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.
I broadly agree.
Though in my view, teams that have something taken away from them, that they already have, is far worse than taking away something they don't. In this case it's a Premier League place.
For Liverpool, it would be extremely harsh for them not to win given it's a 99% chance they'd have won it. But they hadn't. However, the Champions League places were far less certain (barring perhaps Man City) and relegation also.
WBA and Leeds, although a few points clear, weren't certainties for promotion at all and a number of clubs would point to form swings etc.
and Liverpool being Liverpool being Liverpool and WBA being, well, insert your own thought.
But they are notI understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
I disagree, if Germany (who seem to have a good handle on this Pandemic) can and will do it. Why wouldn’t we (albeit later on as we are not handling it brilliantly right now). I think the government will see sport as an important part of maintaining the public moral etc....back on its feet! Get the economy going etc....
Post by: CT on April 20, 2020, 03:25:15 PM
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/tickets/393338-important-update-on-season-ticket-renewals
Post by: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
It doesn't have to be. And it won't be.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
Post by: p_ad on April 20, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Great postIn short, and on the whole, working class kids get working class jobs and the current lockdown we are living through only reinforces this outcome the longer it goes on.
Won't quote the whole thing but this specific line highlights exactly what needs to change as a result of this (and cannot be allowed to return to the status quo). We go out every Thursday and clap for the key workers, we have 2 hours of BBC Sunday evening calling the same key workers heroes for leading the fight against the virus and putting themselves in harms way to protect the country. These people are either the working class unskilled labour force or they're key workers that are absolutely essential to the running of the country.
Don't treat them like the former but then patronise them with hollow platitudes.
If they're key workers and heroes then make sure they earn enough to reflect that and don't need universal credit to top off their piss poor wages. If they're key workers don't allow them to be treated as expendable by companies that want to increase their profits once this is done. If they're heroes don't treat them like dirt when they lose their jobs and need a safety net. If they're heroes that weren't born here lets not thank them for their help and then carry on blaming immigrants for all the problems in the country.
"Working class jobs" are, as we can see in stark relief, no less important or valuable to society than many others so how about we just call them all 'jobs' and the gap between the high and low earners are reduced to reflect the true value to society they provide. This isn't having a go at you by the way, it's having a go at the sorry state of our society which spends 99% of it's time pretending a bunch of jobs are worthless only to clap them when that's proven to be bollocks.
let's hope there is a real appetite for change.
Post by: Risso on April 20, 2020, 03:59:16 PM
Interesting update from Liverpool regarding season tickets. I assume most PL clubs will make similar announcements soon?
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/tickets/393338-important-update-on-season-ticket-renewals
Clubs should be refunding supporters now. They know that there's no way on earth crowds will be allowed back before the end of May.
Post by: garyellis on April 20, 2020, 04:01:18 PM
But it cant be changed without a vote and the point is it is reasonable to take the stance as outlined. That leaves other options that could more easily find a consensus.It doesn't have to be. And it won't be.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 04:07:22 PM
It sounds like the clubs are generally in agreement to the closed doors option. So, assuming they can find a way to do it, that's what they'll do, whether you think it works or not.But it cant be changed without a vote and the point is it is reasonable to take the stance as outlined. That leaves other options that could more easily find a consensus.It doesn't have to be. And it won't be.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
Post by: garyellis on April 20, 2020, 04:10:47 PM
If I was Purslow (which obviously I am not) I would not be making any noises currently. There is no need we are a million miles away from that being an option.It sounds like the clubs are generally in agreement to the closed doors option. So, assuming they can find a way to do it, that's what they'll do, whether you think it works or not.But it cant be changed without a vote and the point is it is reasonable to take the stance as outlined. That leaves other options that could more easily find a consensus.It doesn't have to be. And it won't be.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
Post by: Mister E on April 20, 2020, 04:25:29 PM
Interesting update from Liverpool regarding season tickets. I assume most PL clubs will make similar announcements soon?I think Villa have already said that.
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/tickets/393338-important-update-on-season-ticket-renewals
Post by: CT on April 20, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
Interesting update from Liverpool regarding season tickets. I assume most PL clubs will make similar announcements soon?I think Villa have already said that.
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/tickets/393338-important-update-on-season-ticket-renewals
Fair enough, I must have missed that. I saw the 'early bird" had been postponed, but nothing else.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 20, 2020, 04:49:17 PM
If I was Purslow (which obviously I am not) I would not be making any noises currently. There is no need we are a million miles away from that being an option.It sounds like the clubs are generally in agreement to the closed doors option. So, assuming they can find a way to do it, that's what they'll do, whether you think it works or not.But it cant be changed without a vote and the point is it is reasonable to take the stance as outlined. That leaves other options that could more easily find a consensus.It doesn't have to be. And it won't be.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
That's the point that a lot of people are missing.
It is being reported that they are in general agreement about playing behind closed doors. Is that true though or is it just how the reporters want to/paid to report it. Clubs may be nodding ok but as you say, some may be keeping their powder dry until they need to fire the gun.
Post by: aev on April 20, 2020, 04:56:11 PM
If I was Purslow (which obviously I am not) I would not be making any noises currently. There is no need we are a million miles away from that being an option.It sounds like the clubs are generally in agreement to the closed doors option. So, assuming they can find a way to do it, that's what they'll do, whether you think it works or not.But it cant be changed without a vote and the point is it is reasonable to take the stance as outlined. That leaves other options that could more easily find a consensus.It doesn't have to be. And it won't be.I understand that OMVF. But whatever the resolution, some clubs will be penalised. If they don't come up there's a fair chance Leeds may have to dismantle their team, they may lose Kalvin Phillips etc. Imagine if we were in their situation - missing promotion and having to lose Jack because some people thought voiding the season was fairest. I doubt the forum would be full of people worried about the health risks of playing behind closed doors then. Surprisingly there isn't much of that sentiment on Leeds and WBA forums at the moment.There are currently more major issues going on than football in general. I appreciate other fans of clubs having (so far) a successful season will be desperate for it to recommence but unfortunately they are not going to get their wish. While ever social distancing is a tool to be used against this pandemic then you can forget football - it aint happening! If the decision is to finish off the current season whenever some time in the future, then it has to be under the same rules as it commenced not made up coefficients or behind closed doors that simply does not work. Yes we could be a beneficiary of a null and void season or no relegation but that's just circumstances the points made are sound regardless.
That's the point that a lot of people are missing.
It is being reported that they are in general agreement about playing behind closed doors. Is that true though or is it just how the reporters want to/paid to report it. Clubs may be nodding ok but as you say, some may be keeping their powder dry until they need to fire the gun.
I think this may also be the case. Sports journalists have as much of a vested interest in all this as the fans.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 20, 2020, 04:56:58 PM
I'll be blunt - Britain is not an unalloyed meritocracy. Progress in school and exam driven attainment is primarily delivered not by individual effort and resulting merit but by the family you come from........and thus is dependent on the socio-economic status that your family enjoys.
In short, and on the whole, working class kids get working class jobs and the current lockdown we are living through only reinforces this outcome the longer it goes on.
I would disagree. My extended family in Birmingham are all the kids of Irish immigrants who worked on the buildings, in the Austin, on the buses etc. and the most working class job amongst them is headmaster of a primary school. Having said that the Irish system (which I finished school in) is way more meritocratic than the UK system although kids from better off families will always have an advantage due to more resources at their disposal.
FWIW I don't think the current season will be finished. We'll be lucky if next season starts off and remains intact.
Post by: Des Little on April 20, 2020, 05:39:30 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 20, 2020, 05:51:29 PM
If they do opt for this points earned per game crap, I hope that they differentiate between home and away games and take into consideration that we have six from ten games at home still left to play! It's also flawed as there are always the odd surprising result in football.
Post by: David_Nab on April 20, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
Sturgeon is saying she isn't expecting Scottish football to be played with fans until next year
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 20, 2020, 06:01:57 PM
If they play football while people are dying, then they will be proving that they have no integrity at all, and that this is about pleasing sponsors and fecking Sky Television.
Football is always played whilst people are dying. ;) But I get your point if we're still in the midst of the pandemic.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 20, 2020, 06:13:58 PM
If they play football while people are dying, then they will be proving that they have no integrity at all, and that this is about pleasing sponsors and fecking Sky Television.
If they do opt for this points earned per game crap, I hope that they differentiate between home and away games and take into consideration that we have six from ten games at home still left to play! It's also flawed as there are always the odd surprising result in football.
On H&A points we're still down.
Post by: Steve67 on April 20, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
If they play football while people are dying, then they will be proving that they have no integrity at all, and that this is about pleasing sponsors and fecking Sky Television.
If they do opt for this points earned per game crap, I hope that they differentiate between home and away games and take into consideration that we have six from ten games at home still left to play! It's also flawed as there are always the odd surprising result in football.
On H&A points we're still down.
Deservedly so as it stands but who knows what might have happened? Might still, of course.
Post by: dalians umbrella on April 20, 2020, 06:51:38 PM
Currently, we have 25 points from 28 games, giving us 0.89 points per game, which would relegate us according to this table in the Express:
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1269721/Premier-League-table-points-per-game-how-season-finish-scenario
If we had played our game in-hand and won it, we would have 28 points from 29 games, giving us 0.97 points per game, which would keep us up.
So anyone who thinks that keeping the table as it stands is unfair, because teams with games in-hand could win them, must accept that the points per game solution is not a solution to that issue.
Post by: Steve67 on April 20, 2020, 06:58:27 PM
Post by: Ads on April 20, 2020, 07:00:14 PM
Post by: Richard E on April 20, 2020, 07:01:00 PM
It's going to be a legal minefield isn't it?Hopefully 😊😊😊
Post by: paul_e on April 20, 2020, 07:14:14 PM
You either play the remaining games or void the league.
Yep, anything to resolve this on paper is asking for trouble.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 20, 2020, 08:37:42 PM
Post by: algy on April 20, 2020, 09:12:26 PM
Both of you - brilliant, agree totally.In short, and on the whole, working class kids get working class jobs and the current lockdown we are living through only reinforces this outcome the longer it goes on.
Won't quote the whole thing but this specific line highlights exactly what needs to change as a result of this (and cannot be allowed to return to the status quo). We go out every Thursday and clap for the key workers, we have 2 hours of BBC Sunday evening calling the same key workers heroes for leading the fight against the virus and putting themselves in harms way to protect the country. These people are either the working class unskilled labour force or they're key workers that are absolutely essential to the running of the country.
Don't treat them like the former but then patronise them with hollow platitudes.
If they're key workers and heroes then make sure they earn enough to reflect that and don't need universal credit to top off their piss poor wages. If they're key workers don't allow them to be treated as expendable by companies that want to increase their profits once this is done. If they're heroes don't treat them like dirt when they lose their jobs and need a safety net. If they're heroes that weren't born here lets not thank them for their help and then carry on blaming immigrants for all the problems in the country.
"Working class jobs" are, as we can see in stark relief, no less important or valuable to society than many others so how about we just call them all 'jobs' and the gap between the high and low earners are reduced to reflect the true value to society they provide. This isn't having a go at you by the way, it's having a go at the sorry state of our society which spends 99% of it's time pretending a bunch of jobs are worthless only to clap them when that's proven to be bollocks.
My mum, a nurse, always told me when i was growing up to remember the cleaners in the hospital save more lives than the doctors; the porters play just as important a part in looking after patients as the nurses.
Post by: Ad@m on April 20, 2020, 10:50:46 PM
It's going to be a legal minefield isn't it?
And that will be the deciding factor. Football is designed so that seasons don't go past 30 June - all the contracts are written up to that point so there's no way this season can go past that point.
How many players are out of contract at the end of June and have agreed terms with other teams? What if one of those players leaves a relegation-threatened club and scores the winner to send them down? The lawyers will be all over that.
What about Liverpool's shirt sponsors who've been involved in the vast majority of their (possible) Championship winning side, but their contract expires on 30 June so they might not actually be able to promote the Championship win?
Money talks and on the basis Sky have already said they're not going to ask for any money back, the biggest risk to the league now is being sued because the rules changed in the middle of the season.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 20, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
If they play football while people are dying, then they will be proving that they have no integrity at all, and that this is about pleasing sponsors and fecking Sky Television.
If they do opt for this points earned per game crap, I hope that they differentiate between home and away games and take into consideration that we have six from ten games at home still left to play! It's also flawed as there are always the odd surprising result in football.
On H&A points we're still down.
Deservedly so as it stands but who knows what might have happened? Might still, of course.
We're not deservedly anything until we've played exactly the same teams exactly the same number of times as everyone else.
Post by: CyprusVillain on April 21, 2020, 12:21:04 AM
Quote
My mum, a nurse, always told me when i was growing up to remember the cleaners in the hospital save more lives than the doctors; the porters play just as important a part in looking after patients as the nurses.
Agreed algy. So called ordinary working people have much greater sense than those elevated into senior management.
The school where I work, part of an academy chain, were utterly negligent leading up to the lockdown. No mitigation strategies were practised by the school, no attempts to put anti-bacterial gel in classrooms, no insistence that pupils wash their hands.....100s crowded into corridors and 30 pupils per class.
Because no instruction had come from above - no action was taken.
Did not stop one of the canteen staff simply excising basic commonsense and tethering the entrance to canteen open so that pupils did not have to make contact with the door. The only effective mitigation strategy taken and not by someone on £60k but a woman in her late 50s, insecurely employed and on the minimum age.
Who is the essential worker now?
Post by: Nev on April 21, 2020, 08:10:59 AM
The USP of the game is the role that the crowd play, the TV companies have often said that without this the product is significantly diminished. So, if games are played with no crowd and as expected, we end up with a reserve game atmosphere would you think that the TV bosses will leave it as it is?
I can see recorded crowd noises being deployed, West Ham and I suspect Spurs already do this within the Stadium during their games so it's not a great leap at all. To the traditional fan this is abhorrent, but to your average Liverpool fan at home in Totnes or Chelsea fan in Warwick does it make any difference?
And once the game returns to normal will those sound effects be retired until the next pandemic? I doubt it.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 21, 2020, 08:30:46 AM
If they play football while people are dying, then they will be proving that they have no integrity at all, and that this is about pleasing sponsors and fecking Sky Television.What if factories are reopened, building sites reopened, office buildings reopened? Would 22 blokes on a football pitch working in an industry that literally pays tens of thousands of peoples wages still be proving their lack of integrity?
If they do opt for this points earned per game crap, I hope that they differentiate between home and away games and take into consideration that we have six from ten games at home still left to play! It's also flawed as there are always the odd surprising result in football.
Post by: Mister E on April 21, 2020, 08:46:37 AM
League 2 looks like they are looking to Void as can't afford to restart.She's also casting doubt on the viability of playing games behind closed doors.
Sturgeon is saying she isn't expecting Scottish football to be played with fans until next year
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/20/nicola-sturgeon-dampens-hopes-of-scottish-football-returning
Post by: andyh on April 21, 2020, 09:08:50 AM
The "behind closed doors" thing is a dangerous road to go down.Good points Nev.
The USP of the game is the role that the crowd play, the TV companies have often said that without this the product is significantly diminished. So, if games are played with no crowd and as expected, we end up with a reserve game atmosphere would you think that the TV bosses will leave it as it is?
I can see recorded crowd noises being deployed, West Ham and I suspect Spurs already do this within the Stadium during their games so it's not a great leap at all. To the traditional fan this is abhorrent, but to your average Liverpool fan at home in Totnes or Chelsea fan in Warwick does it make any difference?
And once the game returns to normal will those sound effects be retired until the next pandemic? I doubt it.
It doesn’t take a great leap of the imagination to see SKY showing the games with a ‘crowd noise’ soundtrack played under the commentary.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 21, 2020, 09:10:01 AM
By the time the next decision is made regarding continuing with lockdown there will have been no PL football for almost 8 weeks, which in normal circumstances is a close season when footy shuts down from mid-May to the 1st week in July for pre-season training.
For me this is not just about AVFC (I think we would have stayed up, for what it's worth) it is about the integrity of the game in the face of large numbers of people sadly losing their lives. The likes of sky etc should get over themselves. Instead they along with the football authorities should start planning for next season and use the time constructively to ensure when mass gatherings are allowed again they are done with reassurance and safety in mind. Instead of creating a log jam of football between 2 seasons, they should put all their focus on the upcoming season, whenever that may start (end of 2020 or beginning of 2021? Who knows?)
Post by: Big Ming on April 21, 2020, 10:13:25 AM
The 'Bobby Ewing' solution....... Premier League bosses wake up in shower together...
"It was all a dream...." ( in our case, a bad one).
It never happened.
Post by: OzVilla on April 21, 2020, 10:29:09 AM
League 2 looks like they are looking to Void as can't afford to restart.She's also casting doubt on the viability of playing games behind closed doors.
Sturgeon is saying she isn't expecting Scottish football to be played with fans until next year
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/20/nicola-sturgeon-dampens-hopes-of-scottish-football-returning
I think this is quite telling. Direct quotes from a political leader who will be calling the shots and part of the national decision making discussions. What Henry Winter or Jamie Carragher think is utterly irrelevant. What the likes Nicola Sturgeon think are what really matters.
Post by: Drummond on April 21, 2020, 12:32:51 PM
The "behind closed doors" thing is a dangerous road to go down.Good points Nev.
The USP of the game is the role that the crowd play, the TV companies have often said that without this the product is significantly diminished. So, if games are played with no crowd and as expected, we end up with a reserve game atmosphere would you think that the TV bosses will leave it as it is?
I can see recorded crowd noises being deployed, West Ham and I suspect Spurs already do this within the Stadium during their games so it's not a great leap at all. To the traditional fan this is abhorrent, but to your average Liverpool fan at home in Totnes or Chelsea fan in Warwick does it make any difference?
And once the game returns to normal will those sound effects be retired until the next pandemic? I doubt it.
It doesn’t take a great leap of the imagination to see SKY showing the games with a ‘crowd noise’ soundtrack played under the commentary.
They already do manipulate the sound of the crowd. I'm pretty sure I read that as well as quietening down some stuff they already pipe extra noise through.
Post by: CT on April 21, 2020, 12:58:50 PM
The "behind closed doors" thing is a dangerous road to go down.Good points Nev.
The USP of the game is the role that the crowd play, the TV companies have often said that without this the product is significantly diminished. So, if games are played with no crowd and as expected, we end up with a reserve game atmosphere would you think that the TV bosses will leave it as it is?
I can see recorded crowd noises being deployed, West Ham and I suspect Spurs already do this within the Stadium during their games so it's not a great leap at all. To the traditional fan this is abhorrent, but to your average Liverpool fan at home in Totnes or Chelsea fan in Warwick does it make any difference?
And once the game returns to normal will those sound effects be retired until the next pandemic? I doubt it.
It doesn’t take a great leap of the imagination to see SKY showing the games with a ‘crowd noise’ soundtrack played under the commentary.
They already do manipulate the sound of the crowd. I'm pretty sure I read that as well as quietening down some stuff they already pipe extra noise through.
They certainly do. Really noticeable when they cover Leeds games. Leeds fans tend to sing about SKY a few times per game, and as soon as they do, you get the pre programmed crowd noise come through, with just a tiny bit of the live noise in the background.
Post by: Nev on April 21, 2020, 01:04:12 PM
The "behind closed doors" thing is a dangerous road to go down.Good points Nev.
The USP of the game is the role that the crowd play, the TV companies have often said that without this the product is significantly diminished. So, if games are played with no crowd and as expected, we end up with a reserve game atmosphere would you think that the TV bosses will leave it as it is?
I can see recorded crowd noises being deployed, West Ham and I suspect Spurs already do this within the Stadium during their games so it's not a great leap at all. To the traditional fan this is abhorrent, but to your average Liverpool fan at home in Totnes or Chelsea fan in Warwick does it make any difference?
And once the game returns to normal will those sound effects be retired until the next pandemic? I doubt it.
It doesn’t take a great leap of the imagination to see SKY showing the games with a ‘crowd noise’ soundtrack played under the commentary.
They already do manipulate the sound of the crowd. I'm pretty sure I read that as well as quietening down some stuff they already pipe extra noise through.
They certainly do. Really noticeable when they cover Leeds games. Leeds fans tend to sing about SKY a few times per game, and as soon as they do, you get the pre programmed crowd noise come through, with just a tiny bit of the live noise in the background.
I think it was this season where a the sound operator left a fader open playing crowd noise across a minutes silence at a game.
Post by: CT on April 21, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
The "behind closed doors" thing is a dangerous road to go down.Good points Nev.
The USP of the game is the role that the crowd play, the TV companies have often said that without this the product is significantly diminished. So, if games are played with no crowd and as expected, we end up with a reserve game atmosphere would you think that the TV bosses will leave it as it is?
I can see recorded crowd noises being deployed, West Ham and I suspect Spurs already do this within the Stadium during their games so it's not a great leap at all. To the traditional fan this is abhorrent, but to your average Liverpool fan at home in Totnes or Chelsea fan in Warwick does it make any difference?
And once the game returns to normal will those sound effects be retired until the next pandemic? I doubt it.
It doesn’t take a great leap of the imagination to see SKY showing the games with a ‘crowd noise’ soundtrack played under the commentary.
They already do manipulate the sound of the crowd. I'm pretty sure I read that as well as quietening down some stuff they already pipe extra noise through.
They certainly do. Really noticeable when they cover Leeds games. Leeds fans tend to sing about SKY a few times per game, and as soon as they do, you get the pre programmed crowd noise come through, with just a tiny bit of the live noise in the background.
I think it was this season where a the sound operator left a fader open playing crowd noise across a minutes silence at a game.
I think you're right. Might have been the Sheffield derby. Loads of fans were slagging them off for not observing the silence / applause, when in fact it was Sky who had done it.
Videos started to surface showing the fans had actually given it the full respect.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2020, 03:22:43 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 21, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
If they play football while people are dying, then they will be proving that they have no integrity at all, and that this is about pleasing sponsors and fecking Sky Television.What if factories are reopened, building sites reopened, office buildings reopened? Would 22 blokes on a football pitch working in an industry that literally pays tens of thousands of peoples wages still be proving their lack of integrity?
If they do opt for this points earned per game crap, I hope that they differentiate between home and away games and take into consideration that we have six from ten games at home still left to play! It's also flawed as there are always the odd surprising result in football.
There are a lot of factories and offices still open including the one i'm sitting in now and have been throughout. Probably will be all the way through it. One of my work colleagues has had it and recovered and is back in today. Life doesn't have to stop as long as people are sensible and guidelines are followed, and like you say, why should the football industry be any different?
Football's been postponed as is and quite understandably but if the situation permits training next month and football behind closed doors the month after they should do it. Playing behind closed doors isn't ideal but it's way better than cancelling what has gone before, as long as it's safe to do so.
Post by: olaftab on April 21, 2020, 05:42:51 PM
What if factories are reopened, building sites reopened, office buildings reopened? Would 22 blokes on a football pitch working in an industry that literally pays tens of thousands of peoples wages still be proving their lack of integrity?I think the distinction there is necessary and unnecessary activity.
Post by: David_Nab on April 21, 2020, 06:08:54 PM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/returning-to-action-puts-players-at-greater-risk-of-covid-19-experts-warn-jljm2gxqt
The other article is suggesting they may need to wear masks..
Post by: chrisw1 on April 21, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
How is one activity supporting thousands of jobs be any less necessary than a factory selling widgets? As and when workplaces are generally open again it can't be beyond the wit of man to play some behind closed doors football games.What if factories are reopened, building sites reopened, office buildings reopened? Would 22 blokes on a football pitch working in an industry that literally pays tens of thousands of peoples wages still be proving their lack of integrity?I think the distinction there is necessary and unnecessary activity.
Post by: David_Nab on April 21, 2020, 06:21:24 PM
Post by: CT on April 21, 2020, 06:30:54 PM
Right now, every time he talks, my respect for the bloke gets higher. He's coming out of this with a lot of credit.
Post by: Villan82 on April 21, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
I have to admit, as a player, I bloody hated Gary Neville.
Right now, every time he talks, my respect for the bloke gets higher. He's coming out of this with a lot of credit.
Same here, Neville speaks a lot of sense.
Post by: aev on April 21, 2020, 06:35:31 PM
I have to admit, as a player, I bloody hated Gary Neville.
Right now, every time he talks, my respect for the bloke gets higher. He's coming out of this with a lot of credit.
He does indeed.
Post by: Steve67 on April 21, 2020, 06:39:03 PM
What if factories are reopened, building sites reopened, office buildings reopened? Would 22 blokes on a football pitch working in an industry that literally pays tens of thousands of peoples wages still be proving their lack of integrity?I think the distinction there is necessary and unnecessary activity.
So, it's all about money then Chris? Fuck the death's, there's money to be earned. All of the other places can still socially distance. You cannot do that with football, also, players spit all the time, cannot be good for one another either.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 21, 2020, 09:51:54 PM
You are essentially arguing that when society starts getting back to normal, people start going back to work schools probably start reopening that playing behind closed doors football is some heinous crime and shows a lack of integrity. I disagree. Not only is it the livlihoods of tens of thousands of people, it is part of society getting back to some sort of normality.What if factories are reopened, building sites reopened, office buildings reopened? Would 22 blokes on a football pitch working in an industry that literally pays tens of thousands of peoples wages still be proving their lack of integrity?I think the distinction there is necessary and unnecessary activity.
So, it's all about money then Chris? Fuck the death's, there's money to be earned. All of the other places can still socially distance. You cannot do that with football, also, players spit all the time, cannot be good for one another either.
I accept you'll never agree. You've created your dragon and nothing will stop you slaying it. You've proved you're morally superior and the fact it should result in Villa staying up is just a bonus.
Post by: algy on April 21, 2020, 10:06:00 PM
However, imagine if football started again and someone involved ended up catching covid19 and ending up in ICU. It's be a sad indictment of the game of any amount of money was considered more important than someone's life.
I think all they can do at this stage is to sit back, and wait to see how things pan out without being too committal to one thing or another. The date football resumes will really dictate what's possible - if restarting behind closed doors in June is possible you've a very different set of options to restarting in January next year (or later).
Post by: Pete3206 on April 21, 2020, 10:06:41 PM
Void, then plan for next season.
Post by: usav on April 21, 2020, 10:27:57 PM
What if factories are reopened
We'd be back in 1955 with Marty McFly
Post by: Steve67 on April 21, 2020, 10:29:42 PM
IowaYou are essentially arguing that when society starts getting back to normal, people start going back to work schools probably start reopening that playing behind closed doors football is some heinous crime and shows a lack of integrity. I disagree. Not only is it the livlihoods of tens of thousands of people, it is part of society getting back to some sort of normality.What if factories are reopened, building sites reopened, office buildings reopened? Would 22 blokes on a football pitch working in an industry that literally pays tens of thousands of peoples wages still be proving their lack of integrity?I think the distinction there is necessary and unnecessary activity.
So, it's all about money then Chris? Fuck the death's, there's money to be earned. All of the other places can still socially distance. You cannot do that with football, also, players spit all the time, cannot be good for one another either.
I accept you'll never agree. You've created your dragon and nothing will stop you slaying it. You've proved you're morally superior and the fact it should result in Villa staying up is just a bonus.
Villa staying up has nothing to do with it. I also want this season to be completed but only when it is safe to do so. Players should not be placed at risk just because they help pay the wages of others. As for Dragon slaying, wtf!
Post by: sid1964 on April 22, 2020, 06:34:40 AM
Eventually we will have to get back to work, when we do there will be spikes in people catching the virus, but we can't stay locked in our houses etc, forever!
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 22, 2020, 07:58:10 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52376543
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 22, 2020, 08:29:23 AM
Post by: DrGonzo on April 22, 2020, 08:51:17 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/21/scottish-premiership-season-set-to-be-called-off-after-uefa-assurances (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/21/scottish-premiership-season-set-to-be-called-off-after-uefa-assurances)
Post by: chrisw1 on April 22, 2020, 09:04:15 AM
I'm sure that when it's explained to the players and staff that if they catch it then hey-ho, tough shit, they won't mind nor let it affect their game.But you could say that to every single person going back to work in pretty much every line of work. What you can bet is they would probably be some of the most tested people on the planet and their risk will likely be less than most.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 22, 2020, 09:06:03 AM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 22, 2020, 09:20:41 AM
What i would like to see happen is the league season played out when we can, for 6-7 weeks, then a 6 week break or so and start again. I'd like to see the FA Cup, Champions League and Europa League played out at the same time next year (so postponed like the euros) with the same teams as they are, and the League Cup cancelled next season. The FA Cup, CL and EL can be treated as the 19-21 competition. I know there are issues with this but i think it's be the best way to do it personally. It means that if the new season started in say October, more league games could be squeezed in over the weeks to finish at the normal time next season. I'm also aware of the financial implications of this and for that reason it won't happen.
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2020, 09:36:56 AM
Post by: aev on April 22, 2020, 09:43:12 AM
Of all the things that are going to be changed out of all recognition by this pandemic, professional football is very close to the top of the list. Football where it was needs tearing up and starting afresh. The authorities will not do it voluntarily of course. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas but it will happen.
The thing that i hope changes (but doubt it will) is the massive differences that clubs can earn and generate between the PL and the Leagues below. I think if this wasn't such a big difference then the "impasse" that we are currently seeing would not be occurring.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 22, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2020, 10:14:00 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 22, 2020, 12:13:55 PM
Post by: Dave P on April 22, 2020, 01:59:06 PM
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2020, 02:32:34 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 22, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
The National Leagues have been cancelled with immediate effect. The voiding is creeping up the pyramid.
No promotion? I'd have thought they would have wanted at least one team up to take the place of Bury.
Post by: aev on April 22, 2020, 04:08:45 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on April 22, 2020, 04:26:39 PM
The National Leagues have been cancelled with immediate effect. The voiding is creeping up the pyramid.
No promotion? I'd have thought they would have wanted at least one team up to take the place of Bury.
National League clubs have voted to end the regular season at its current point, with promotion and relegation outcomes "under careful consideration".
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 22, 2020, 05:05:35 PM
Quote
Former Welsh champions Rhyl FC are set to close down after 141 years of existence.
The north Wales side confirmed they had begun a winding-up process, with directors citing the financial impact of the coronavirus crisis.
"This is a very emotional day for everyone connected with the club," said chairman Paul Higginson. "We are all fans and feel it deeply."
The four-time Welsh Cup winners play in the second-tier Cymru North.
Rhyl had warned recently they could not meet financial obligations and required significant external investment to continue.
After a self-imposed deadline passed with "no viable approach", a club statement confirmed that they had initiated the winding-up of the company.
"The difficult decision was taken by the board of directors after considering the financial impact of the suspension of all football activities due to the unprecedented impact of Covid-19, the unwillingness of the ground's owner to consider either a long lease or sale on market terms and the ongoing fixed costs with no income prospects," the statement read.
Rhyl said they were offered support from the Football Association of Wales, but it would not be enough to save the club, who recently said they would need £175,000 of investment to offer long-term security.
They added that five approaches of investment were either deemed not viable or were withdrawn without any financial proposal made.
Fans had begun raising money to help a club that can cite the likes of Lee Trundle and Barry Horne as former players, with suggestions already that a 'phoenix' club could be formed.
Higginson added: "The town has a very proud footballing history and a very determined character and I have no doubt that a very strong new club will rise from this low."
Post by: Towser on April 22, 2020, 05:08:39 PM
If you do that, Villa move up to 17th to bring all teams down to same amount of games played, this would move us out of the relegation zone and Wet Spam would go down instead.
(https://i.ibb.co/yBQ6zTY/AV.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yBQ6zTY)
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2020, 05:36:27 PM
Post by: steamer on April 22, 2020, 05:37:14 PM
forever blowing bubbles
Post by: aev on April 22, 2020, 05:51:43 PM
Post by: CyprusVillain on April 22, 2020, 05:54:06 PM
Quote
Premier League clubs discussing early end to season amid growing concerns
An increasing number of Premier League clubs are actively discussing the possibility of bringing the season to an early end, with concerns growing over the feasibility of a return even behind closed doors.
The Premier League is suspended indefinitely and, last week, a meeting of the 20 clubs reaffirmed the intention to complete the season when it is “safe and appropriate”. Away from collective discussions, however, clubs are informally talking about the hurdles in the way of a return, with some asking whether the challenges will soon become too great.
The Guardian has spoken to clubs who have raised a range of concerns. The most immediate is a fear over the medical safety of playing a full contact sport while there is the risk of contracting Covid-19.
Clubs were told last week that play would resume only once there was sufficient capacity to test players, staff and other individuals – such as TV broadcast teams – involved in any behind-doors competition. There has also been a provisional medical plan drawn up between the league and range of club doctors over how to minimise the risk of infection.
But the practicality of the plan was questioned by one club, who argued that players may have to be separated from their families for a month or more to make sure they are not infected. There is also the concern over the amount of testing required, with perhaps multiple tests per person per match being required, and the possible insensitivity of undertaking such a plan when frontline workers in the NHS and other public services are currently not getting the testing they need.
Concerns over health and safety were not the only issues raised, however. For clubs outside the big six there are also distinct financial challenges with playing on. If the season were to return in mid-June – a best-case scenario – clubs would need to extend contracts of some of their players who might otherwise have left, keeping large wages on the payroll. Equally some clubs at the bottom would be paying greater wages than would have been the case had they already dropped down a division and activated relegation clauses. It is also the case that some clubs could find themselves in legal dispute with players over extending their deals.
If it were judged safe to play and clubs were able to take the short-term financial hit in the hope of recouping the money later through broadcast revenue, for example, there would remain issues over sporting integrity. A compacted remainder of the league season, with 92 fixtures still to be completed, would take place during the summer months and would have a physical impact on players. Clubs with smaller squads would face a challenge.
One club are believed to consider the age profile of their squad as a disadvantage if a regular weekend-midweek-weekend rhythm were required. Another raised the issue of what would happen should a player refuse to play over welfare concerns, or if a player who had been set for a transfer were selected against their prospective new club.
The issues may be resolvable but it is understood they have not been discussed openly in Premier League meetings. One club official who has taken part in the meetings said there had been no attempt to ascertain a preferred outcome and none expressed by individual teams. The next Premier League meeting is scheduled for Friday 1 May.
The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/22/premier-league-clubs-discussing-early-end-to-season-amid-growing-concerns-health-safety-covid-19 (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/22/premier-league-clubs-discussing-early-end-to-season-amid-growing-concerns-health-safety-covid-19)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 22, 2020, 06:01:13 PM
Sad news about Rhyl. Didn't Villa captain and legend Ivor Powell when as manager take them to Wembley aged 90 or thereabouts IIRC?
Powell was with Team Bath for about 30 years.
Post by: CT on April 22, 2020, 06:10:05 PM
Post by: themossman on April 22, 2020, 06:10:53 PM
Although, if it did end up with behind closed doors to equal up the fixtures surely we’d be in much better shape than and much more up for it than sheff Utd.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 22, 2020, 06:14:01 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2020, 06:14:58 PM
With "socially disruptive measures" carrying on until the end of the year (according to Chris Witty) I wonder what that means for football in general.It’s fucked.
Post by: paul_e on April 22, 2020, 06:19:13 PM
Post by: aev on April 22, 2020, 06:22:39 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 22, 2020, 06:30:37 PM
Someone on Facebook came up with the best suggestion (for us) so far, Void the game week Villa, Sheffield United, Arsenal and City didn't play because of Carabao cup final. Then all teams will have played 28 games.That’s the daftest answer I’ve seen. You can’t scrub other teams results even if it would suit us. Imagine the reaction on here if the boot was on the other foot so to speak.
If you do that, Villa move up to 17th to bring all teams down to same amount of games played, this would move us out of the relegation zone and Wet Spam would go down instead.
(https://i.ibb.co/yBQ6zTY/AV.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yBQ6zTY)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 22, 2020, 06:35:02 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 22, 2020, 06:56:10 PM
I don't think anybody would complain.Obviously not on this forum
Post by: Brassneck on April 22, 2020, 07:16:12 PM
If it was played out behind closed doors I wonder if the relegated clubs would also have a case in that the structure of the league had changed and therefore not a consistent playing field?
I don't see how they would as they would have taken part in a democratic vote as prescribed by the PL rules.
It would be for them to argue that the season should be played out but relegation should be scrapped. We'd certainly have the bottom 6 voting for this. In all probability, we'd probably have the next 6th placed teams voting that way and probably Liverpool as well. Nobody cares who, if anyone gets relegate. Liverpool just want to win the league, many other teams want to play out if poss just to ease the financial impact. If scrapping relegation means that the season can be played out, most would vote that way.
Post by: aev on April 22, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
For us, de registering Wesley and bringing in the Spanish guy was on the basis that Wesley wouldn’t be fit for the rest of the season, this has obviously changed and you’d think should be able to be challenged.
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2020, 07:48:12 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 22, 2020, 08:18:40 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivor_Powell?wprov=sfla1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyl_F.C.?wprov=sfla1
Post by: eric woolban woolban on April 22, 2020, 08:33:36 PM
To steal a Paul Lambert phrase, 'we go again ' when this disease has been fully controlled.
Whether that's six, twelve or eighteen months, so be it.
Post by: Steve67 on April 22, 2020, 08:37:44 PM
I take that guardian article as the first step towards voiding the season. Individually the problems aren't insurmountable but collectively they create a mess where the actions to suit some clubs harm others and vice versa so I don't see a version of this which gets the support needed to ensure it goes ahead, I included voiding in that but that has to be the fall back position if nothing else is agreed.
I suspect there is absolutely nothing in the EFL/Sky contract to bail them out as no-one could have seen this coming. I bet the lawyers are working overtime to find a solution. I'm thinking they will want Boris to tell them to cancel it all so they can shrug their shoulders at the clubs involved and claim it's not their doing. Can't say I blame them.
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 22, 2020, 08:39:21 PM
With "socially disruptive measures" carrying on until the end of the year (according to Chris Witty) I wonder what that means for football in general.It’s fucked.
If social disruptive measures are here until a vaccine is in place, which could be and will be along time, the season has to be void
Post by: Pete3206 on April 22, 2020, 09:57:52 PM
The football and media suits may be waking up to the increasing likelihood that the game as we know it, might be dead.
Post by: David_Nab on April 22, 2020, 10:08:33 PM
https://www.dw.com/en/bundesliga-behind-closed-doors-leaked-documents-show-how-it-will-work/a-53212350
Quote
Two of the task force's recommendations in particular will likely provide ample material for discussion. "No automatic reporting of a positive [coronavirus] case to the press, since disease verification as well as clear documentation of suspected transmission routes take priority," the report states. This doesn‘t sound like a transparent approach to a pandemic situation.
In view of the close-knit medical control network among professional teams, the experts also consider the "abandonment of group quarantine" to be justified. In other words, the entire squad need not neccessarily be automatically quarantined if a player is infected. In this context, the task force simply recommends "ensuring a sufficiently large squad in the season's run in at an early stage".
Sounds pretty nuts
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 22, 2020, 10:38:51 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 22, 2020, 10:53:09 PM
Someone on Facebook came up with the best suggestion (for us) so far, Void the game week Villa, Sheffield United, Arsenal and City didn't play because of Carabao cup final. Then all teams will have played 28 games.That’s the daftest answer I’ve seen. You can’t scrub other teams results even if it would suit us. Imagine the reaction on here if the boot was on the other foot so to speak.
If you do that, Villa move up to 17th to bring all teams down to same amount of games played, this would move us out of the relegation zone and Wet Spam would go down instead.
(https://i.ibb.co/yBQ6zTY/AV.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yBQ6zTY)
It’s no dafter than voiding as is now & relegating a team for showing the League Cup respect
Post by: DrGonzo on April 23, 2020, 07:46:54 AM
Post by: CT on April 23, 2020, 07:52:03 AM
David Moyes asking the emminently sensible question... why should we waste covid testing on footballers when NHS staff and vulnerable people are waiting for them?
Another thing that Gary Neville mentioned yesterday. If we had to test every player, member of staff etc, before every game, the PL would need to make 28,000 tests to complete the season.
This is at a time when people who really do need these tests, still aren't getting them.
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2020, 09:00:08 AM
David Moyes asking the emminently sensible question... why should we waste covid testing on footballers when NHS staff and vulnerable people are waiting for them?
Another thing that Gary Neville mentioned yesterday. If we had to test every player, member of staff etc, before every game, the PL would need to make 28,000 tests to complete the season.
This is at a time when people who really do need these tests, still aren't getting them.
I presume the Premier League would just pay inflated prices and ship them in from Germany or something.
Post by: Nev on April 23, 2020, 09:00:58 AM
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2020, 09:15:18 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 09:32:14 AM
David Moyes asking the emminently sensible question... why should we waste covid testing on footballers when NHS staff and vulnerable people are waiting for them?There's currently 10,000 available tests per day not being taken up - due mainly to logistics. There'll be 100,000 available per day in a week or so. It may be clubs will be able to buy in their own tests. Absolutely the NHS comes first, but I don't think testing of players in 2 or 3 months time is unrealistic.
Post by: andyh on April 23, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
How the feck is that happening?
Post by: David_Nab on April 23, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
Are they implying that the whole squad is kept together and away from wider society until all the games are completed, and players are only left out if their symptoms incapacitate them sufficiently to prevent them from being physically able to play, as if they had any other run-of-the-mill illness or injury?
Seems to be the idea. I think the point that if a player tests positive then the whole squad doesn't need quarantining but make sure you have a big squad before the season restarts is very dubious.
French football is attempting to buy 50k testing kits , I don't think Testing kit will be an issue if buying themselves its the amount the players will need and restrictions on their lives that seem pretty intense.
It will likely go ahead but in most games it will be a farce , it may help us as with something to play for we are going to be one of a few sides with any motivation to play. Uefa are meeting to discuss VAR and how they can implement it with social distancing ( 3 people in a control room ) if they can't agree then the option is to remove it for rest of the season.
If so you have at least 1) No fans 2)No Var which are huge changes from the previous games but thats ok but voiding the seasons is less legitimate.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 23, 2020, 10:22:30 AM
Solid organ transplant recipients.
People with specific cancers
People with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe chronic obstructive pulmonary (COPD).
People with rare diseases and inborn errors of metabolism that significantly increase the risk of infections
People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection.
Women who are pregnant with significant heart disease
Professional footballers and their attendant entourage.
Post by: mr underhill on April 23, 2020, 10:24:45 AM
Post by: The Edge on April 23, 2020, 10:28:00 AM
I look forward to the updated shielding support recipient guidance.Ooff!! I think you've nailed it.
Solid organ transplant recipients.
People with specific cancers
People with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe chronic obstructive pulmonary (COPD).
People with rare diseases and inborn errors of metabolism that significantly increase the risk of infections
People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection.
Women who are pregnant with significant heart disease
Professional footballers and their attendant entourage.
Post by: Nev on April 23, 2020, 10:39:47 AM
this is all total bullshit. Social distancing measures of some kind will be in place for months which will preclude close contact sport full stop. Just do the decent thing and void the season now. Football is going to eat itself unless it does. I'm never going to feel the same way about football now - watching these selfish fucknuts arguing about money whilst 700 odd people are losing their lives every day is obscene. Among the many things i hope change for the better as a result of this is the end of celebrity worship, chief amonst them prime donna actors, artists, footballers, reality tv bumholes etc.
I wouldn't tune into BBC1 tonight then....
Post by: Hillbilly on April 23, 2020, 11:26:29 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 11:29:31 AM
this is all total bullshit. Social distancing measures of some kind will be in place for months which will preclude close contact sport full stop. Just do the decent thing and void the season now. Football is going to eat itself unless it does. I'm never going to feel the same way about football now - watching these selfish fucknuts arguing about money whilst 700 odd people are losing their lives every day is obscene. Among the many things i hope change for the better as a result of this is the end of celebrity worship, chief amonst them prime donna actors, artists, footballers, reality tv bumholes etc.It's not just about finishing this season. Next season will probably have to start behind closed doors too and the same issues will apply. Do you think they should void that too or try to work out a way to play it even if behind closed doors?
Post by: mr underhill on April 23, 2020, 11:37:52 AM
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11977461/gary-neville-how-coronavirus-could-reset-football-and-why-players-should-learn-other-skills
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 11:44:54 AM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 11:48:25 AM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.Where we agree is we both want the season voided. Where we disagree is I don't think playing behind closed doors is as impractical or heinous a crime as you do. I do, however, think it will be difficult for them to do it in time to finish this season.
My hope is they void this season and start next, if necessary, behind closed doors. At that point in time I thnk most of us will be used to the new normality. I expect social distancing will still apply, but most people will be back at work. I imagine testing will be readily available to clubs. I think at that point playing behind closed doors is perfectly reasonable.
Post by: TopDeck113 on April 23, 2020, 11:53:41 AM
The Neviller speaks (again).
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11977461/gary-neville-how-coronavirus-could-reset-football-and-why-players-should-learn-other-skills
An intelligent and astute man.
I have always been led to believe that one of the PFA's roles is to prepare its more lowly paid members for the realities of earning a living once their professional career is over. It would therefore have been good to see Gordon Taylor justifying his salary by telling his members to get off FIFA for five minutes and do some future career planning.
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 11:55:19 AM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
There are plenty of people that think that football should have been cancelled, and the season voided (it was the most popular choice in a BBC poll). Of course, this may have been influenced by vested interest, but you only have to read the above from Gary Neville to see what a predicament football finds itself in.
This is affecting all sports - many of the larger cricketing counties have undertaken massive stadium reinvestment recently and they will also be struggling.
The crazy thing is that football is so awash with money, and yet it seems hocked the hilt.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
There are plenty of people that think that football should have been cancelled, and the season voided (it was the most popular choice in a BBC poll). Of course, this may have been influenced by vested interest, but you only have to read the above from Gary Neville to see what a predicament football finds itself in.
This is affecting all sports - many of the larger cricketing counties have undertaken massive stadium reinvestment recently and they will also be struggling.
The crazy thing is that football is so awash with money, and yet it seems hocked the hilt.
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
I too want the season to be voided for obvious reasons but I try to look at if from all angles. It is not about greed or financial gain - It is about survival. In our case, we made a record loss last season and have spent most, if not all our TV money this season on transfers and wages. Can you imagine how much we're hemorrhaging each week? Do you really think we are "awash with money"? What about Burnley? Southampton? Brighton? and at least half of the other PL teams? Do you think they can continue paying out multi millions in wages each week with no income?
We don't know if it is possible to finish the season at this stage (although it looks less and less likely). Until we know for definite one way or the other, we can't possibly arrive at a decision and it is right to keep all options open.
Post by: LeeB on April 23, 2020, 12:25:16 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2020, 12:36:08 PM
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
The BBC Sport poll suggested differently. The people I speak to in the main suggest differently to. So, I think it fair to say that opinion is split.
I'd cancel this season and the beginning of next too, given the Chief Medical Officer's thoughts about social distancing for the rest of the year.
With the World Cup due to take place in November 2022, perhaps the season could start January next year and play through until October. If, after that, they want to revert to the usual football season, just play catch up for a period of time. If not, play seasons in a whole new way.
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 12:39:02 PM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
There are plenty of people that think that football should have been cancelled, and the season voided (it was the most popular choice in a BBC poll). Of course, this may have been influenced by vested interest, but you only have to read the above from Gary Neville to see what a predicament football finds itself in.
This is affecting all sports - many of the larger cricketing counties have undertaken massive stadium reinvestment recently and they will also be struggling.
The crazy thing is that football is so awash with money, and yet it seems hocked the hilt.
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
I too want the season to be voided for obvious reasons but I try to look at if from all angles. It is not about greed or financial gain - It is about survival. In our case, we made a record loss last season and have spent most, if not all our TV money this season on transfers and wages. Can you imagine how much we're hemorrhaging each week? Do you really think we are "awash with money"? What about Burnley? Southampton? Brighton? and at least half of the other PL teams? Do you think they can continue paying out multi millions in wages each week with no income?
We don't know if it is possible to finish the season at this stage (although it looks less and less likely). Until we know for definite one way or the other, we can't possibly arrive at a decision and it is right to keep all options open.
PL football is awash with money. I didn't say we were, but our owners are certainly extremely wealthy. The reason we were purchased was presumably so they could make some more.
What I find difficult is the intransigence of football. Look at some of the PL clubs furloughing non playing staff, and the difficulty of getting playing staff to agree to deferrals (not even cuts to wages). Friends of mine have been furloughed, and they are taking a wages cut effectively, they aren't being deferred.
Post by: The Edge on April 23, 2020, 12:48:18 PM
Mate, it's going to be voided.I agree. Nothing else seems feasible. However when we finally do get to restart i'd like to see all clubs start with the points they achieved from the voided season. There would be some crazily high points totals but the records could show this. I can't stand Liverpool but they have earned their 25 point lead which should pretty much guarantee them the title. And i'm totally against playing behind closed doors. Just waiting until the time is right and picking up where we left off is the fairest solution.
Post by: David_Nab on April 23, 2020, 12:54:21 PM
this is all total bullshit. Social distancing measures of some kind will be in place for months which will preclude close contact sport full stop. Just do the decent thing and void the season now. Football is going to eat itself unless it does. I'm never going to feel the same way about football now - watching these selfish fucknuts arguing about money whilst 700 odd people are losing their lives every day is obscene. Among the many things i hope change for the better as a result of this is the end of celebrity worship, chief amonst them prime donna actors, artists, footballers, reality tv bumholes etc.It's not just about finishing this season. Next season will probably have to start behind closed doors too and the same issues will apply. Do you think they should void that too or try to work out a way to play it even if behind closed doors?
That's the next issue being kicked down the road.Say we start next season behind closed doors , at what point is it fair to bring fans back , is it fair that you could play a home game with no fans at start of season but the same fixture away later in season does allow fans.
My argument now is that playing games with no fans ins't consistent with the rest of the season having fans so to be consistent myself I'll put forward that if next season starts behind closed doors the whole season should be played out like that.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 23, 2020, 12:58:34 PM
It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
Villa fans on a Villa fan site putting Villa's interests first. Not entirely sure what else you would expect to find on here.
And I don't believe you anyway, when you say it's only on here.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 01:03:52 PM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
There are plenty of people that think that football should have been cancelled, and the season voided (it was the most popular choice in a BBC poll). Of course, this may have been influenced by vested interest, but you only have to read the above from Gary Neville to see what a predicament football finds itself in.
This is affecting all sports - many of the larger cricketing counties have undertaken massive stadium reinvestment recently and they will also be struggling.
The crazy thing is that football is so awash with money, and yet it seems hocked the hilt.
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
I too want the season to be voided for obvious reasons but I try to look at if from all angles. It is not about greed or financial gain - It is about survival. In our case, we made a record loss last season and have spent most, if not all our TV money this season on transfers and wages. Can you imagine how much we're hemorrhaging each week? Do you really think we are "awash with money"? What about Burnley? Southampton? Brighton? and at least half of the other PL teams? Do you think they can continue paying out multi millions in wages each week with no income?
We don't know if it is possible to finish the season at this stage (although it looks less and less likely). Until we know for definite one way or the other, we can't possibly arrive at a decision and it is right to keep all options open.
PL football is awash with money. I didn't say we were, but our owners are certainly extremely wealthy. The reason we were purchased was presumably so they could make some more.
What I find difficult is the intransigence of football. Look at some of the PL clubs furloughing non playing staff, and the difficulty of getting playing staff to agree to deferrals (not even cuts to wages). Friends of mine have been furloughed, and they are taking a wages cut effectively, they aren't being deferred.
It’s only the bottom few teams who want the season voided. Teams with nothing to play for would prefer to carry on, as would teams with a chance of winning something.
H&V would be no different if we were in the position of Leeds or Liverpool or even Sheffield United. There’s no moral high ground here and you’re kidding yourself if you think there is. You will be suggesting Newcastle fans are bothered who owns their club next.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
Villa fans on a Villa fan site putting Villa's interests first. Not entirely sure what else you would expect to find on here.
And I don't believe you anyway, when you say it's only on here.
You don’t believe me?
I’m heartbroken.
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2020, 01:07:29 PM
Void the league.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 23, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
Post by: CT on April 23, 2020, 01:09:27 PM
I'm strongly in favour of any solution that benefits us. Fuck fairness and if that fucks the Albion in the process, even better.
Void the league.
Gets my vote too.
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 01:10:09 PM
I'm strongly in favour of any solution that benefits us. Fuck fairness and if that fucks the Albion in the process, even better.
Void the league.
Perfectly acceptable solution. Everyone's a winner.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 23, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
"It’s only the bottom few teams who want the season voided"
Can't do quotes very well, but which one is it?
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
I'm strongly in favour of any solution that benefits us. Fuck fairness and if that fucks the Albion in the process, even better.
Void the league.
Me too but it’s bordering on the moronic to suggest it’s the only solution.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 01:11:43 PM
I think he's mostly right. I've looked on a few other forums and very few are awash with rightous posts about voiding the season for player safety being the only way forward.It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
Villa fans on a Villa fan site putting Villa's interests first. Not entirely sure what else you would expect to find on here.
And I don't believe you anyway, when you say it's only on here.
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
There are plenty of people that think that football should have been cancelled, and the season voided (it was the most popular choice in a BBC poll). Of course, this may have been influenced by vested interest, but you only have to read the above from Gary Neville to see what a predicament football finds itself in.
This is affecting all sports - many of the larger cricketing counties have undertaken massive stadium reinvestment recently and they will also be struggling.
The crazy thing is that football is so awash with money, and yet it seems hocked the hilt.
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
I too want the season to be voided for obvious reasons but I try to look at if from all angles. It is not about greed or financial gain - It is about survival. In our case, we made a record loss last season and have spent most, if not all our TV money this season on transfers and wages. Can you imagine how much we're hemorrhaging each week? Do you really think we are "awash with money"? What about Burnley? Southampton? Brighton? and at least half of the other PL teams? Do you think they can continue paying out multi millions in wages each week with no income?
We don't know if it is possible to finish the season at this stage (although it looks less and less likely). Until we know for definite one way or the other, we can't possibly arrive at a decision and it is right to keep all options open.
PL football is awash with money. I didn't say we were, but our owners are certainly extremely wealthy. The reason we were purchased was presumably so they could make some more.
What I find difficult is the intransigence of football. Look at some of the PL clubs furloughing non playing staff, and the difficulty of getting playing staff to agree to deferrals (not even cuts to wages). Friends of mine have been furloughed, and they are taking a wages cut effectively, they aren't being deferred.
It’s only the bottom few teams who want the season voided. Teams with nothing to play for would prefer to carry on, as would teams with a chance of winning something.
H&V would be no different if we were in the position of Leeds or Liverpool or even Sheffield United. There’s no moral high ground here and you’re kidding yourself if you think there is. You will be suggesting Newcastle fans are bothered who owns their club next.
So you are telling me what I think now?
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 01:15:41 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2020, 01:16:02 PM
I think he's mostly right. I've looked on a few other forums and very few are awash with rightous posts about voiding the season for player safety being the only way forward.It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
Villa fans on a Villa fan site putting Villa's interests first. Not entirely sure what else you would expect to find on here.
And I don't believe you anyway, when you say it's only on here.
So some are?
And presumably, as you've said 'for player safety' there are others who want to do it for other reasons?
Post by: phantom limb on April 23, 2020, 01:18:32 PM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 23, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
Every Man U fan in the entire world wants the season voided, it’s certainly not just us.
And Liverpool fans only want the season to continue so that Burnley and Southampton don't go belly up.
It's just posters on here who are putting their club's self interest first, I'm told
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2020, 01:25:11 PM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
There are plenty of people that think that football should have been cancelled, and the season voided (it was the most popular choice in a BBC poll). Of course, this may have been influenced by vested interest, but you only have to read the above from Gary Neville to see what a predicament football finds itself in.
This is affecting all sports - many of the larger cricketing counties have undertaken massive stadium reinvestment recently and they will also be struggling.
The crazy thing is that football is so awash with money, and yet it seems hocked the hilt.
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
I too want the season to be voided for obvious reasons but I try to look at if from all angles. It is not about greed or financial gain - It is about survival. In our case, we made a record loss last season and have spent most, if not all our TV money this season on transfers and wages. Can you imagine how much we're hemorrhaging each week? Do you really think we are "awash with money"? What about Burnley? Southampton? Brighton? and at least half of the other PL teams? Do you think they can continue paying out multi millions in wages each week with no income?
We don't know if it is possible to finish the season at this stage (although it looks less and less likely). Until we know for definite one way or the other, we can't possibly arrive at a decision and it is right to keep all options open.
PL football is awash with money. I didn't say we were, but our owners are certainly extremely wealthy. The reason we were purchased was presumably so they could make some more.
What I find difficult is the intransigence of football. Look at some of the PL clubs furloughing non playing staff, and the difficulty of getting playing staff to agree to deferrals (not even cuts to wages). Friends of mine have been furloughed, and they are taking a wages cut effectively, they aren't being deferred.
It’s only the bottom few teams who want the season voided. Teams with nothing to play for would prefer to carry on, as would teams with a chance of winning something.
H&V would be no different if we were in the position of Leeds or Liverpool or even Sheffield United. There’s no moral high ground here and you’re kidding yourself if you think there is. You will be suggesting Newcastle fans are bothered who owns their club next.
So the teams who the outcomes don't matter for don't care or are happy because they won't get relegated? There's a surprise.
I've not mentioned moral high ground. If I was a Liverpool fan, I'd be absolutely furious if I thought the first title in 30 years was going to be denied on a technicality. As for Leeds, well they're always unhappy about something but they certainly weren't in any sort of unassailable position; weren't they worse off than last year at this time? As for Sheffield United, their fans are generally just really happy that they've done ok, it wasn't that long ago that they were still asking if they were safe, such is their history of snatching despair from the jaws of jubilation.
It affects everyone differently. If we go down because they decide the standings should remain I'll be disappointed but I'll get over it. However, that doesn't seem like the fairest option to me.
As for Newcastle, thanks for trying to think for me and put words in my mouth.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 01:35:26 PM
I think the point he is making is that so many peole on here think trying to finish the season is a terrible crime, shows the PL is only concerned about money, the game is eating itself, that they are putting players at terrible risk etc etc.
These sentiments aren't generally being expressed on a lot of other football forums. The obviousl conclusion is that some (not all) are using moral outrage as a way of supporting the most favourable solution for us. The liklihood is that if we were in Leeds position there would be a lot less accustations of greed etc etc.
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 01:37:07 PM
Drummond
I think the point he is making is that so many peole on here think trying to finish the season is a terrible crime, shows the PL is only concerned about money, the game is eating itself, that they are putting players at terrible risk etc etc.
These sentiments aren't generally being expressed on a lot of other football forums. The obviousl conclusion is that some (not all) are using moral outrage as a way of supporting the most favourable solution for us. The liklihood is that if we were in Leeds position there would be a lot less accustations of greed etc etc.
Did you read the Gary Neville article on the Sky website today?
We know he is fond of Villa, but I am not sure he is a fan.
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2020, 01:37:21 PM
Mate, it's going to be voided.I agree. Nothing else seems feasible. However when we finally do get to restart i'd like to see all clubs start with the points they achieved from the voided season. There would be some crazily high points totals but the records could show this. I can't stand Liverpool but they have earned their 25 point lead which should pretty much guarantee them the title. And i'm totally against playing behind closed doors. Just waiting until the time is right and picking up where we left off is the fairest solution.
As much as I hate to say it I feel sorry for Liverpool but if the season is voided it's done, nothing carries over, anything like you suggest causes far too many problems. At the very simplest measure the entire league concept relies on playing each team home and away, anything which alters that is a fundamental undermining of the whole thing. This is why I also think the 'hub' idea is a non-starter and why anything that see the league finished on paper, or ended now, can't be the option they choose.
Playing out the remainder of games in as close to normal conditions as possible is the only feasible solution. If that means games behind closed doors then I can accept that, but only if it's safe to do and the games are finished by the end of June. As I don't think those last 2 are possible I think voiding the season with nothing carrying over is the only reasonable solution.
I also agree that if the season starts behind closed doors then it needs to play out entirely as such.
Oh and Brassneck, this has fuck all to do with the position Villa are in, it's to do with the integrity of the league and avoiding the fallout from this season having an impact on the entire football calendar for years. If all the games are played out in reasonably normal conditions then great but giving out promotion, relegation and trophies on any other basis is clearly flawed and would obviously lead to legal challenges and doing far more damage to the league and game than simply putting a line under it and starting again when it's safe.
Post by: David_Nab on April 23, 2020, 01:45:36 PM
We don't agree on this issue Chris as well you know; i love my football as much as the next person but it simply isn't important at the moment. Until it is safe for all concerned don't play - certainly not behind closed doors, which is a souless travesty of what the game should be.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
There are plenty of people that think that football should have been cancelled, and the season voided (it was the most popular choice in a BBC poll). Of course, this may have been influenced by vested interest, but you only have to read the above from Gary Neville to see what a predicament football finds itself in.
This is affecting all sports - many of the larger cricketing counties have undertaken massive stadium reinvestment recently and they will also be struggling.
The crazy thing is that football is so awash with money, and yet it seems hocked the hilt.
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
I too want the season to be voided for obvious reasons but I try to look at if from all angles. It is not about greed or financial gain - It is about survival. In our case, we made a record loss last season and have spent most, if not all our TV money this season on transfers and wages. Can you imagine how much we're hemorrhaging each week? Do you really think we are "awash with money"? What about Burnley? Southampton? Brighton? and at least half of the other PL teams? Do you think they can continue paying out multi millions in wages each week with no income?
We don't know if it is possible to finish the season at this stage (although it looks less and less likely). Until we know for definite one way or the other, we can't possibly arrive at a decision and it is right to keep all options open.
PL football is awash with money. I didn't say we were, but our owners are certainly extremely wealthy. The reason we were purchased was presumably so they could make some more.
What I find difficult is the intransigence of football. Look at some of the PL clubs furloughing non playing staff, and the difficulty of getting playing staff to agree to deferrals (not even cuts to wages). Friends of mine have been furloughed, and they are taking a wages cut effectively, they aren't being deferred.
It’s only the bottom few teams who want the season voided. Teams with nothing to play for would prefer to carry on, as would teams with a chance of winning something.
H&V would be no different if we were in the position of Leeds or Liverpool or even Sheffield United. There’s no moral high ground here and you’re kidding yourself if you think there is. You will be suggesting Newcastle fans are bothered who owns their club next.
So the teams who the outcomes don't matter for don't care or are happy because they won't get relegated? There's a surprise.
I've not mentioned moral high ground. If I was a Liverpool fan, I'd be absolutely furious if I thought the first title in 30 years was going to be denied on a technicality. As for Leeds, well they're always unhappy about something but they certainly weren't in any sort of unassailable position; weren't they worse off than last year at this time? As for Sheffield United, their fans are generally just really happy that they've done ok, it wasn't that long ago that they were still asking if they were safe, such is their history of snatching despair from the jaws of jubilation.
It affects everyone differently. If we go down because they decide the standings should remain I'll be disappointed but I'll get over it. However, that doesn't seem like the fairest option to me.
As for Newcastle, thanks for trying to think for me and put words in my mouth.
Exactly , teams with nothing to play for won't care what happens they have nothing to lose or gain league wise but they can tick the box to say they played and get the TV cash.
Here is the Spanish leagues plans starting with a month prep of staggered training before players in a team sport can actually train together ..
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/23/la-liga-plan-to-restart-season-daily-covid-19-tests-training-isolation?CMP=share_btn_tw
FIW if I was in Leeds position I'd be happy to go up in an expanded PL
Post by: Richard E on April 23, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 23, 2020, 01:54:13 PM
I agree with most on here. End the season now. Relegate us if that is how it ends or void it or whatever. Then put all the planning and contingency into the next season. All this will they / won't they reasoning is stupid and wasting time and resources when we don't even have most shops or other businesses open yet.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 01:54:33 PM
Mid table sides obviously have massive incentives financially to finish the season. They stand to lose millions in sponsorship and advertising deals, notwithstanding any tv money. Also there is prize money based on league placing.
Paul e. Your stance is almost the same as mine. However, if we were 10th, having played the season in a style that we associate to DS, do you think we’d have such an overwhelming clamour on here to void the session? Or do you think the majority would hope for the opportunity to watch the team play 10 more games on live tv?
I think we both know the answer.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 23, 2020, 01:58:21 PM
Post by: Hillbilly on April 23, 2020, 02:30:24 PM
Post by: frank black on April 23, 2020, 02:40:34 PM
Anyone here in insurance? Haveany thoughts on the cost of public liability insurance for matches either with or without crowds? Would the government’s position have a significant effect on cost? Or would the insurers be looking solely at the underlying scientific evidence (likelihood of a 2nd wave etc)?
The Bundesliga have stated they are good to go from May. Just need the green light of the government (there’s the rub).
Post by: Richard E on April 23, 2020, 02:51:01 PM
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 02:56:11 PM
Anyone here in insurance? Haveany thoughts on the cost of public liability insurance for matches either with or without crowds? Would the government’s position have a significant effect on cost? Or would the insurers be looking solely at the underlying scientific evidence (likelihood of a 2nd wave etc)?
The Bundesliga have stated they are good to go from May. Just need the green light of the government (there’s the rub).
And the Dutch governement have I think said nothing until Septmeber.
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
I think the fairest solution is to put Liverpool, Leeds and Albion into the top flight of the National League for next season. The additional revenue that would generate for the smaller clubs will keep grassroots football alive in otherwise precarious circumstances for the them.
I agree. Good chance Liverpool get their league title.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 03:01:32 PM
I think the fairest solution is to put Liverpool, Leeds and Albion into the top flight of the National League for next season. The additional revenue that would generate for the smaller clubs will keep grassroots football alive in otherwise precarious circumstances for the them.This is the sort of solution I can get behind.
Post by: sid1964 on April 23, 2020, 03:10:11 PM
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Post by: andyh on April 23, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
So what if the leagues are disrupted and it takes next season to get straight again.
So what?
Football is a big boy. It will find a way to manage and if this season is voided (hopefully) then football can regroup and work out a plan for how we can watch safely next season, if permitted.
Yes, my opinion has a lot to do with our league position, but football (Premier league clubs) doesn’t show that much integrity when it comes to the cup competitions.
Post by: andyh on April 23, 2020, 03:29:57 PM
It looks as though if the league is voided we will be relegated, according to UEFA guidelines.Uefa aren’t the rule setters for domestic competitions are they?
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 03:33:13 PM
It looks as though if the league is voided we will be relegated, according to UEFA guidelines.Uefa aren’t the rule setters for domestic competitions are they?
Let’s hope not. Otherwise we’ll see the biggest U-Turn in H&V history.
Post by: Small Rodent on April 23, 2020, 03:53:17 PM
It looks as though if the league is voided we will be relegated, according to UEFA guidelines.Uefa aren’t the rule setters for domestic competitions are they?
Let’s hope not. Otherwise we’ll see the biggest U-Turn in H&V history.
No, I put health over a club's finances.
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2020, 03:57:12 PM
The posts are becoming ridiculous. Void the PL but give placings in the Championship in order to promote Leeds?
Mid table sides obviously have massive incentives financially to finish the season. They stand to lose millions in sponsorship and advertising deals, notwithstanding any tv money. Also there is prize money based on league placing.
Paul e. Your stance is almost the same as mine. However, if we were 10th, having played the season in a style that we associate to DS, do you think we’d have such an overwhelming clamour on here to void the session? Or do you think the majority would hope for the opportunity to watch the team play 10 more games on live tv?
I think we both know the answer.
I don't know, personally I'd apply the same reasoning as I am doing now, in fact I think the only way I'd disagree is if we'd 'done a Leicester' and snuck into the top 4 completely unexpectedly but even then deep down I'd know I was being selfish.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 04:18:29 PM
However, the majority are claiming that voiding the season is the only option. My point is that they wouldn’t be stating that if our position was better.
Post by: LeeB on April 23, 2020, 04:21:15 PM
Your stance is the same as mine, ie if it can be played out safely then do it.
However, the majority are claiming that voiding the season is the only option. My point is that they wouldn’t be stating that if our position was better.
But you don't know that, so why bother going on about it? It's only going to wind people up. Telling people what they're thinking and why is not the way to make friends and influence people.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 04:23:45 PM
Post by: Rory on April 23, 2020, 04:40:59 PM
I'm struggling to work out exactly what you want. Would seeing football matches played in empty stadiums really represent a return to 'normality' for you? If anything it would make the whole situation more surreal for me, and add even less authenticity to the idea that the remaining games were part of the same season.
I also think you should stop being so hostile to your fellow posters. Cynically questioning the motives of others, who have nothing to feel bad about even if all they want is the best outcome for Villa, isn't a good look.
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2020, 04:41:31 PM
We either play again and that's with fans or we void the league. We won't be playing again till the winter with supporters, so void the league it is.
Post by: Rory on April 23, 2020, 04:47:42 PM
Integrity is important. If the competition is not the same in the last quarter as it was in the first three quarters the ingerity is eroded.
We either play again and that's with fans or we void the league. We won't be playing again till the winter with supporters, so void the league it is.
I agree. An over-simplification, I know, but if a 100m sprint was interrupted after 75m by a fat bloke crossing the track to get a pie, they wouldn't stop the race, then start again from exactly the same place and ask the runners to evade the fat bloke. They'd wait until such a time that the fat bloke was no longer an obstacle, return to the beginning and start again. Due to the arduous nature of re-starting a 38-game season, many people feel that isn't an option and the fairest choice is to scrap it and start afresh whenever we can.
I agree that those whose livelihoods depend on football should be supported the same as everyone else. But my brother, who works at Villa, has been told that if the season resumes behind closed doors, he won't be required, and therefore won't be paid.
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2020, 04:49:15 PM
I do know it.
Now I know what you mean about posts becoming ridiculous.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2020, 04:50:10 PM
I do know it.
A bit less hostility, please.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 05:05:11 PM
Lots of people don't want to see a competition completed when the variables have been dramatically altered with a quarter of the season left to play, and yes, lots of people don't want to see Villa relegated.
I'm struggling to work out exactly what you want. Would seeing football matches played in empty stadiums really represent a return to 'normality' for you? If anything it would make the whole situation more surreal for me, and add even less authenticity to the idea that the remaining games were part of the same season.
I also think you should stop being so hostile to your fellow posters. Cynically questioning the motives of others, who have nothing to feel bad about even if all they want is the best outcome for Villa, isn't a good look.
I want the season voided - Or any other solution that guarantees Villa staying up. I really don't care. I don't care about integrity, I don't care about Liverpool, I don't care about Europe etc, etc.
I am not hostile to other posters, neither have I pointed the finger at anyone. You have a few genuine people at every club who put the morals first, then you have a few drama queens and then finally, you have a few who are that blinkered, they might not even realise that there are other valid options. I have my own opinions on who is who but I keep them to myself. If I broadcast them, perhaps that would be deemed hostile.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 05:06:40 PM
I do know it.
Now I know what you mean about posts becoming ridiculous.
You only have to look at the comments from fans of other teams Drummond - It's not rocket science.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 05:26:29 PM
Agreed. Either we have the highest moral values of pretty much any football forum I've seen, or a lot of people's views are more influenced by our own plight than perhaps they realise.Lots of people don't want to see a competition completed when the variables have been dramatically altered with a quarter of the season left to play, and yes, lots of people don't want to see Villa relegated.
I'm struggling to work out exactly what you want. Would seeing football matches played in empty stadiums really represent a return to 'normality' for you? If anything it would make the whole situation more surreal for me, and add even less authenticity to the idea that the remaining games were part of the same season.
I also think you should stop being so hostile to your fellow posters. Cynically questioning the motives of others, who have nothing to feel bad about even if all they want is the best outcome for Villa, isn't a good look.
I want the season voided - Or any other solution that guarantees Villa staying up. I really don't care. I don't care about integrity, I don't care about Liverpool, I don't care about Europe etc, etc.
I am not hostile to other posters, neither have I pointed the finger at anyone. You have a few genuine people at every club who put the morals first, then you have a few drama queens and then finally, you have a few who are that blinkered, they might not even realise that there are other valid options. I have my own opinions on who is who but I keep them to myself. If I broadcast them, perhaps that would be deemed hostile.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 23, 2020, 05:47:48 PM
Lots of people don't want to see a competition completed when the variables have been dramatically altered with a quarter of the season left to play, and yes, lots of people don't want to see Villa relegated.
I'm struggling to work out exactly what you want. Would seeing football matches played in empty stadiums really represent a return to 'normality' for you? If anything it would make the whole situation more surreal for me, and add even less authenticity to the idea that the remaining games were part of the same season.
I also think you should stop being so hostile to your fellow posters. Cynically questioning the motives of others, who have nothing to feel bad about even if all they want is the best outcome for Villa, isn't a good look.
I want the season voided - Or any other solution that guarantees Villa staying up. I really don't care. I don't care about integrity, I don't care about Liverpool, I don't care about Europe etc, etc.
I am not hostile to other posters, neither have I pointed the finger at anyone. You have a few genuine people at every club who put the morals first, then you have a few drama queens and then finally, you have a few who are that blinkered, they might not even realise that there are other valid options. I have my own opinions on who is who but I keep them to myself. If I broadcast them, perhaps that would be deemed hostile.
This bit I'm not bothered about. They could call the Leagues as they are and make them finalised or they can Void them or do whatever. Whatever they do will fuck over someone but the Leagues trying to play out will fuck over others. Can anyone see Liverpool fans not trying to "be there" when the League is won if games are being played, or watching in groups or other things, same for Leeds and West Brom fans. However if the announcement is just made either way, i'm hoping a muted mention will mute all the potential celebrations etc.
Post by: LeeB on April 23, 2020, 06:07:18 PM
I do know it.
Then I apologise for the profanities.
Post by: David_Nab on April 23, 2020, 06:22:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2020, 06:24:50 PM
Your stance is the same as mine, ie if it can be played out safely then do it.
However, the majority are claiming that voiding the season is the only option. My point is that they wouldn’t be stating that if our position was better.
I don't know how many are claiming it's the only option, it's the best option for a number of reasons though and the reasons against it weaken every week.
Post by: Rory on April 23, 2020, 06:39:29 PM
Agreed. Either we have the highest moral values of pretty much any football forum I've seen, or a lot of people's views are more influenced by our own plight than perhaps they realise.Lots of people don't want to see a competition completed when the variables have been dramatically altered with a quarter of the season left to play, and yes, lots of people don't want to see Villa relegated.
I'm struggling to work out exactly what you want. Would seeing football matches played in empty stadiums really represent a return to 'normality' for you? If anything it would make the whole situation more surreal for me, and add even less authenticity to the idea that the remaining games were part of the same season.
I also think you should stop being so hostile to your fellow posters. Cynically questioning the motives of others, who have nothing to feel bad about even if all they want is the best outcome for Villa, isn't a good look.
I want the season voided - Or any other solution that guarantees Villa staying up. I really don't care. I don't care about integrity, I don't care about Liverpool, I don't care about Europe etc, etc.
I am not hostile to other posters, neither have I pointed the finger at anyone. You have a few genuine people at every club who put the morals first, then you have a few drama queens and then finally, you have a few who are that blinkered, they might not even realise that there are other valid options. I have my own opinions on who is who but I keep them to myself. If I broadcast them, perhaps that would be deemed hostile.
And what difference would that make? As someone pointed out earlier, those who want to finish the season behind doors only want that for their own reasons.
I think Villa will stay up either way. If that comes to pass, it doesn't mean I wouldn't feel the three relegated teams had been mistreated.
Then again, I felt like a lonely voice in the cricketing community last year saying that , in my opinion, New Zealand should've won the world cup on the basis of wickets taken. I'm an England fan and bloody loved that we won, doesn't mean I'm too blinkered to have my own views.
But I don't think it's anybody's place to question why Villa fans may be inclined towards the best outcome for Villa. Wouldn't it a bit of a pyrrhic victory to make fellow fans feel guilty for not being suitably dispassionate in what is by its nature a partisan sport?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2020, 06:48:49 PM
The point Brassneck and I are pointing out is that like it or not, there seems to be a correlation betweeen peoples indignation that the PL would have the audacity to try to find a way to finish the season and the liklihood of said finishing the season being bad for their club.
Post by: aev on April 23, 2020, 06:53:37 PM
Your stance is the same as mine, ie if it can be played out safely then do it.
However, the majority are claiming that voiding the season is the only option. My point is that they wouldn’t be stating that if our position was better.
I don't know how many are claiming it's the only option, it's the best option for a number of reasons though and the reasons against it weaken every week.
I think they should have cancelled the season, and the UEFA stuff today suggests (to me) that they are happy for individual countries to do this by providing guidance regarding qualification to UEFA competitions.
What happens to relegation, I have no idea. Are points per game fair, no. Table as is, no. If we had all played the same number of games and we were still in the bottom 3 I still wouldn't think it fair. I think a season should be based on the same circumstances and conditions over its duration.
Post by: Rory on April 23, 2020, 07:24:00 PM
There's nothing wrong with being parisan - I certainly am. But there's pages of posts about how dreadful and heartless football is if they play behind closed doors etc. People aren't saying I want the season voided because it suits my team. They are creating a whole narrative about how football is evil, playing behind closed doors is callous and dangerous etc etc and voiding the season is the only possible solution and and aren't I virtuous railing against the machine...
The point Brassneck and I are pointing out is that like it or not, there seems to be a correlation betweeen peoples indignation that the PL would have the audacity to try to find a way to finish the season and the liklihood of said finishing the season being bad for their club.
Fair enough. I understand people who want the season finished, and I don't think it's disgusting or anything like that. But I have been disenchanted with the PL for a good few seasons and I think the way they are going about things is self-important and a little tasteless.
Post by: Richard E on April 23, 2020, 07:29:35 PM
Post by: Rory on April 23, 2020, 07:36:58 PM
There’s nothing wrong with being partisan, as long as you’re not OFTEN partisan.
Quite! It's the thought of having to play those sad wankers again that makes me so determined to believe we will stay up.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 23, 2020, 08:13:32 PM
I am not hostile to other posters, neither have I pointed the finger at anyone. You have a few genuine people at every club who put the morals first, then you have a few drama queens and then finally, you have a few who are that blinkered, they might not even realise that there are other valid options. I have my own opinions on who is who but I keep them to myself. If I broadcast them, perhaps that would be deemed hostile.
Hmmm
Post by: montague on April 23, 2020, 08:46:09 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2020, 09:05:20 PM
There's nothing wrong with being parisan - I certainly am. But there's pages of posts about how dreadful and heartless football is if they play behind closed doors etc. People aren't saying I want the season voided because it suits my team. They are creating a whole narrative about how football is evil, playing behind closed doors is callous and dangerous etc etc and voiding the season is the only possible solution and and aren't I virtuous railing against the machine...
The point Brassneck and I are pointing out is that like it or not, there seems to be a correlation betweeen peoples indignation that the PL would have the audacity to try to find a way to finish the season and the liklihood of said finishing the season being bad for their club.
There's a lot of bad interpretation going on here. Your use of "Dreadful and Heartless" is a good example. I can see lots of posts saying soulless and I can see posts about how it's poor form to use a fuckload of tests to allow football games to be played when, for numerous reasons, there are still lots of people who should be tested who don't have access to them. These aren't fairly represented by your chocie of phrase which makes it sound very different.
I can also see posts saying that the league seem to currently be more interested in protecting their revenue streams than in doing the right thing for players, officials and fans. This was true before this all started and many people will have at least have had a dislike for the whole thing for a long time.
Having a couple of people on here accusing anyone who doesn't see most of the options as feasible of being blinkered or partisan is pretty arsey and servers no purpose other than to discount anything they post because you've decided that their opinion is biased.
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2020, 09:18:00 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2020, 09:18:54 PM
There's nothing wrong with being parisan - I certainly am. But there's pages of posts about how dreadful and heartless football is if they play behind closed doors etc. People aren't saying I want the season voided because it suits my team. They are creating a whole narrative about how football is evil, playing behind closed doors is callous and dangerous etc etc and voiding the season is the only possible solution and and aren't I virtuous railing against the machine...
The point Brassneck and I are pointing out is that like it or not, there seems to be a correlation betweeen peoples indignation that the PL would have the audacity to try to find a way to finish the season and the liklihood of said finishing the season being bad for their club.
There's a lot of bad interpretation going on here. Your use of "Dreadful and Heartless" is a good example. I can see lots of posts saying soulless and I can see posts about how it's poor form to use a fuckload of tests to allow football games to be played when, for numerous reasons, there are still lots of people who should be tested who don't have access to them. These aren't fairly represented by your chocie of phrase which makes it sound very different.
I can also see posts saying that the league seem to currently be more interested in protecting their revenue streams than in doing the right thing for players, officials and fans. This was true before this all started and many people will have at least have had a dislike for the whole thing for a long time.
Having a couple of people on here accusing anyone who doesn't see most of the options as feasible of being blinkered or partisan is pretty arsey and servers no purpose other than to discount anything they post because you've decided that their opinion is biased.
Well said Paul. It also ruins reasoned debate about how things might be done going forward because any suggestion means that posters are so partisan Villa than anything said is biased because we are only thinking of ourselves. Completely unfair and insipid.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 09:24:06 PM
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Post by: montague on April 23, 2020, 09:25:54 PM
I care what league we're in, it matters to me. It better be the top flight, 'cuz if its not...
Frankly when everything stopped we were the worst team in the division and the chances of staying up getting slimmer anyway
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 09:26:26 PM
You seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
I am 100% biased towards Villa. I admit it - I don't care about anything else. However, I am not blinkered enough to claim that the solution that suits us best is the ONLY solution. That is ridiculous.
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2020, 09:31:43 PM
I care what league we're in, it matters to me. It better be the top flight, 'cuz if its not...
Frankly when everything stopped we were the worst team in the division and the chances of staying up getting slimmer anyway
Nope.
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 09:33:11 PM
You seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.Most football fans on the recent online Bbc poll didn’t want the season finished. What’s the evidence most want it finished?
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 09:33:48 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 09:36:09 PM
You seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.Most football fans on the recent online Bbc poll didn’t want the season finished. What’s the evidence most want it finished?
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Any fans forum you care to look at. I'd guess Norwich, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford & WHU would probably be on our side but overwhelmingly, fans want to see the season played out if safe to do so. As would we if we were mid table.
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 09:36:36 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 09:38:18 PM
I can’t imagine supporters of mid table teams would really see it as that important in these timesYou seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.Most football fans on the recent online Bbc poll didn’t want the season finished. What’s the evidence most want it finished?
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Any fans forum you care to look at. I'd guess Norwich, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford & WHU would probably be on our side but overwhelmingly, fans want to see the season played out if safe to do so. As would we if we were mid table.
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 09:38:44 PM
I thought I saw 56 % didn’t want the leagues to continue, am I dreaming this?
56% of what?
How many from here voted? How many from VT?
Who exactly voted?
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 09:41:03 PM
I can’t imagine supporters of mid table teams would really see it as that important in these timesYou seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.Most football fans on the recent online Bbc poll didn’t want the season finished. What’s the evidence most want it finished?
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Any fans forum you care to look at. I'd guess Norwich, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford & WHU would probably be on our side but overwhelmingly, fans want to see the season played out if safe to do so. As would we if we were mid table.
If it was deemed safe to do so, the times have nothing to do with it.
How about Newcastle with their new owners? They not bothered?
How about Burnley who have stated they'll go into liquidation by August if funds aren't forthcoming? They not bothered?
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 09:42:46 PM
and I don’t accept fans forums are indicative of fan bases.You seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.Most football fans on the recent online Bbc poll didn’t want the season finished. What’s the evidence most want it finished?
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Any fans forum you care to look at. I'd guess Norwich, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford & WHU would probably be on our side but overwhelmingly, fans want to see the season played out if safe to do so. As would we if we were mid table.
Post by: tomd2103 on April 23, 2020, 09:48:10 PM
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2020, 09:51:12 PM
(http://imgur.com/a/4OGf9QH)
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 09:52:26 PM
I thought I saw 56 % didn’t want the leagues to continue, am I dreaming this?
56% of what?
How many from here voted? How many from VT?
Who exactly voted?
Anyone who went on BBC Sport.
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 09:52:35 PM
I’m guessing Newcastle’s new owners (if it happens) will impact on future seasons. Burnley like many clubs need funds now. I think all of football needs to be collectively thinking of how they can survive into 2021 with the threat of zero attendances. No idea how this is going to be achieved but scrambling around trying to cram 1/4 of a season into a month behind closed doors doesn’t seem to be that relevant to me.I can’t imagine supporters of mid table teams would really see it as that important in these timesYou seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.Most football fans on the recent online Bbc poll didn’t want the season finished. What’s the evidence most want it finished?
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Any fans forum you care to look at. I'd guess Norwich, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford & WHU would probably be on our side but overwhelmingly, fans want to see the season played out if safe to do so. As would we if we were mid table.
If it was deemed safe to do so, the times have nothing to do with it.
How about Newcastle with their new owners? They not bothered?
How about Burnley who have stated they'll go into liquidation by August if funds aren't forthcoming? They not bothered?
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 09:54:15 PM
I thought I saw 56 % didn’t want the leagues to continue, am I dreaming this?
56% of what?
How many from here voted? How many from VT?
Who exactly voted?
Anyone who went on BBC Sport.
So next to nobody, yet we're to take the poll as if it were God's own word?
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 09:55:55 PM
No idea how many vote. How else do we know what the feelings are generally?I thought I saw 56 % didn’t want the leagues to continue, am I dreaming this?
56% of what?
How many from here voted? How many from VT?
Who exactly voted?
Anyone who went on BBC Sport.
So next to nobody, yet we're to take the poll as if it were God's own word?
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Know someone who works at a football league club and he said the word going around at the moment is that the new season could be starting as late as January.
That's another option that is realistic.
If we can't play in August, the chances are, we won't be able to do so in September and possibly October. Next season could be scrapped as well, leaving us a few months next year to play out this season.
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 09:56:52 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 23, 2020, 10:20:45 PM
I think you could do with winding your neck in a bit. No-one said that. It was a representative poll on an impartial website which has far more visitors than this one.
What was the Poll for? Voiding the season or simply not playing on?
With UEFA's comments today, it looks like a sporting way must be found to determine Euro places. Presuming we don't play on, there are 3 options to do that:
1. Finish with places as they stand (as we saw in Scotland last week)
2. Finish and average points so that all teams end having played an equal amount
3. Scrap relegation and just determine the Euro places
Not playing on will not automatically guarantee us safety.
Personally, I'm not convinced that Euro travel is going to be encouraged in time for qualifiers anyway.
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 10:25:29 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2020, 10:27:25 PM
In terms of sporting integrity, whichever way they dice it there will be elements of unfairness. The virus has fundamentally put a dent into this season and almost certainly the next one and there will be winners and losers and lucky and unlucky teams coming out of it all. It does seem ludicrous that we could be relegated in our current position but as this situation continues and normality doesn't seem any closer it doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility.
One thing I will say is I'm not sure there's much point getting het up about it either way. Que sera sera, as we were singing not long ago!
Post by: SteveN on April 23, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
Or am I missing something?
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 10:33:48 PM
This vote is now closed. Here are the final results.
Declare season null and void 39%
End season now and leave table as it is 12%
Base season on points-per-game average 8%
Finish season no matter how long it takes 28%
Hold ‘festival of football’ ASAP to ensure all games played in short time 12%
Other 1%"
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 10:33:58 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2020, 10:34:09 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 10:35:26 PM
I'm a bit torn with the behind closed doors thing. On the one hand I would love to have some sort of sporting interest back, on the other still not being able to go to matches will be a bind. Let's be honest, if lockdown is eased and businesses reopen but mass gatherings are banned, as seems likely, then behind closed doors will happen so it's something we'll get used to I guess.It’s going to be so difficult for football clubs until fans can safely return to watch. I think I’m too used to being there to have any interest in behind closed door football. I felt we were certs for relegation when the lockdown started, whatever the solution is I expect us to be in the championship next season (whenever that might be). I do hope clubs aren’t lost.
In terms of sporting integrity, whichever way they dice it there will be elements of unfairness. The virus has fundamentally put a dent into this season and almost certainly the next one and there will be winners and losers and lucky and unlucky teams coming out of it all. It does seem ludicrous that we could be relegated in our current position but as this situation continues and normality doesn't seem any closer it doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility.
One thing I will say is I'm not sure there's much point getting het up about it either way. Que sera sera, as we were singing not long ago!
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 10:38:43 PM
"What should the Premier League do with the 2019-20 season?So my 56% was miles off. Don’t know where I got that from. No overall majority for any option then.
This vote is now closed. Here are the final results.
Declare season null and void 39%
End season now and leave table as it is 12%
Base season on points-per-game average 8%
Finish season no matter how long it takes 28%
Hold ‘festival of football’ ASAP to ensure all games played in short time 12%
Other 1%"
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 10:40:32 PM
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 10:41:18 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 23, 2020, 10:42:12 PM
Perhaps it was 56% when you cast your vote?Think so
Post by: Stu on April 23, 2020, 10:48:30 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 23, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
Playing out football seasons should be absolutely bottom of the pile.
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2020, 11:37:57 PM
I also remember it being significantly higher than that.
Regardless it's a lot more than the handful of biased villa fans on a forum that Brassneck and Chrisw1 are suggesting. That it's comfortably the most popular (that would be a big working majority in our electoral system) suggests it a lot more than common a view than that. I'd also suggest that it's a view which will gain popularity as we get closer to the summer which has been my point all along. If there is any chance of starting next season in some form by mid-late September then that has to be the priority and that means giving clubs time to prepare with a pre-season, etc and not having legal cases hanging over clubs and leagues. I don't see any way to do that other than playing all the remaining games out at home and away venues by June 30th.
Lets not forget a year in the premier league is worth at least an additional £150m to the championship, any club that is relegated by a solution which sees things worked out on paper isn't going to let that money go without looking at the legality of it. If we play after June 30th then the player contract situation is a huge problem and again will likely result in all sorts of legal issues. The Liverpool shirt sponsor deal is another great example (and is a situation that would be reflected at numerous clubs for numerous sponsors).
There's really 2 possible situations I can see from this and there's a couple of options.
If next season can be started with enough time to run it's course before the euros then finish the season by June 30th or don't bother, I see no other reasonable options in that case.
If not then finishing this season next year could be an option, and there's probably enough time between now and that start point, but there would need to be a lot of work done around contracts, transfer windows, etc because in that situation there will be a number of squads missing players to end of contract or retirement. On top of that it's easily the biggest financial hit to the clubs because it wipes out their entire revenue for this summer, you'd see a lot of clubs go bust in that situation. Financially it would be better to do something like end the season now with prize money, etc distributed but no relegation and to run next year as either a 19 game season or split the league in half for a year and run 2 18 game leagues to make up next years table. I don't like any of those options but I think the 19 game option is probably the best of a bad bunch.
Post by: john2710 on April 23, 2020, 11:49:01 PM
But I'm as certain as I can be that they won't. Football will be back early June, unless the Government or the PFA stop it.
Post by: Legion on April 23, 2020, 11:56:02 PM
We are still in a situation where people are being told not to go see their family, leave the house necessarily or get near other people.
Playing out football seasons should be absolutely bottom of the pile.
Exactly this.
Post by: Ads on April 24, 2020, 12:04:01 AM
Post by: Pete3206 on April 24, 2020, 12:15:11 AM
We are still in a situation where people are being told not to go see their family, leave the house necessarily or get near other people.
Playing out football seasons should be absolutely bottom of the pile.
100%
Post by: old man villa fan on April 24, 2020, 01:09:26 AM
A line has to be drawn under the losses for this season and not allow them to increase by dragging out the season. By cutting off the season on 30th June, this would allow the clubs to 'cut their cloth' for next season by getting rid of players if needed. I would also scrap the transfer windows for next season so that clubs could buy and sell through the season. Football behind closed doors is not real football but if you made it a one-off season, there is no reason why the 'rules' cannot be consigned to the bin for one year.
Post by: sid1964 on April 24, 2020, 06:58:37 AM
Once this happens then hopefully we will see a return to some sort of normal life "whatever that will be"- for me they ought to void this season but there are multi millions at stake in the premier league, so I guess that is why they are waiting to see if they can resume at the beginning of June.
If the season is voided, I don't think we will still be in the premier league as I expect top 2 to be promoted from Championship and I cannot see a Premier League with 22 sides next season - they complain about the amount of football at the moment?
Obviously if we are relegated, then as most say on here we could sue the premier league - but that could take months before it comes to courts and by then the new season will be well underway, also I am sure that if the premier league took this decision they would be backed by EUFA
Post by: NeilH on April 24, 2020, 07:28:41 AM
Anyone here in insurance? Haveany thoughts on the cost of public liability insurance for matches either with or without crowds? Would the government’s position have a significant effect on cost? Or would the insurers be looking solely at the underlying scientific evidence (likelihood of a 2nd wave etc)?
The Bundesliga have stated they are good to go from May. Just need the green light of the government (there’s the rub).
And the Dutch governement have I think said nothing until Septmeber.
Yep and it’s debatable even then that it will be played in front of a crowd. Both here and in Belgium the season as voided. The future of my surrogate Dutch second division clubs survival hangs very much in the balance as to when crowds will return.
Post by: OzVilla on April 24, 2020, 07:37:12 AM
I’d be amazed if the Govt risk an uptick in cases from a restart of football knowing that there is a tendency for people to group together during and after matches.
Regards Villa being relegated, I still think we’ll stay up if we play the games however if they can’t the Brighton chairman basically ruled out any appetite to relegate anyone from the PL with so many games still to play.
These are the people to listen to as they are in the room currently while discussions are taking place.
Post by: andyh on April 24, 2020, 08:14:38 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 24, 2020, 08:44:51 AM
Post by: Gareth on April 24, 2020, 09:22:16 AM
Scrap FFP for this season and next season.
A line has to be drawn under the losses for this season and not allow them to increase by dragging out the season.
There is no way on earth the ‘big’ clubs will allow FFP to be scrapped, the money that our owners, Everton’s owners or those about to take over Newcastle have would allow them to clear the decks properly and compete - they won’t let that happen.
Personally I think that the PL are now so invested in finishing the season to protect that TV income that they are happy to leave it in that limbo state. They care zero about anybody below their league so any knock on to Leeds/West Brom etc is not their concern.
As for voiding, I just can’t see how you stay out of the courts if you relegate a team who actually took a Cup competition seriously, if you do then expect under 16’s in all domestic cups going forward - as an aside the prospective winners of the league who are crying over the possibility of losing their first league in 30 years had the chance to negate the game in hand scenario when they did disrespect the cup and gave us a bye while they went on a jolly to Qatar.
Will restarting the league in June/July be a level playing field? Nope, the wage issue will have huge implications, morale at different clubs will be affected massively by how the discussions & agreements are done - for example at Villa we have barely heard a word about what has been discussed and whether there is agreement/ dissent in the camp - how clubs deal with it may well lead to some players being less than motivated when they restart.
Ps - the league should have been voided long before Covid-19 after the shambolic implementing of VAR :-) :-)
Post by: DrGonzo on April 24, 2020, 09:25:50 AM
"Government already out of home tests for key workers, website shows
Our digital editor, Claire Phipps, has noticed that all the home tests for key workers have already gone. It comes as health Secretary Matt Hancock has said the new online booking system will be key to the government reaching its target of 100,000 coronavirus tests a day by the end of the month. Speaking on BBC Breakfast, he said: “Not as many people have been coming for (a test) as we had expected. "
10,000 a day spare? Don't believe the tory spin, They are praying for those tests to hide the sheer scale of their incompetence.
Post by: DrGonzo on April 24, 2020, 09:44:46 AM
"Uefa has laid out two primary conditions under which it would accept the abandonment of a league. The first would involve being instructed to do so by a government, which is the case in the Netherlands; the second is “insurmountable economic problems”."
Post by: Mister E on April 24, 2020, 09:50:03 AM
What's the obsession with finishing the season anyway? They won't be playing again until there's a vaccine available, I reckon.Correct, which is why January is the earliest conceivable resumption time.
When the lockdown is loosened there will be specific instructions abour mass gatherings, which means any group of over a dozen or so will be outlawed. How many will be required for a behind-closed-doors game? - someone here speculated 280 (and with the risk of fans gathering either outside the ground or elsewhere).
I cannot see competitive football - or any sport - being viable for months. And that means that the 2019-20 season will have become irrelevant.
Post by: themossman on April 24, 2020, 10:00:16 AM
And UEFA say decide final standings on "sporting merit" (vague huh?) and:
"Uefa has laid out two primary conditions under which it would accept the abandonment of a league. The first would involve being instructed to do so by a government, which is the case in the Netherlands; the second is “insurmountable economic problems”."
Accept the abandonment of a league? Who the fuck do they think they are?
Post by: aev on April 24, 2020, 10:05:08 AM
Post by: sid1964 on April 24, 2020, 10:14:33 AM
Is it so people can attend a game - will we have to have to have had the injection (have letter of proof) before being allowed in, how about if you have not had the vaccine because you are immune to the virus?
Will you have had to have the vaccine before being allowed back to work?
Footballers will eventually have to leave there houses like everyone else will? so what is to stop them getting the virus whilst they are out shopping or shagging some bird that they have met?
I cannot see a vaccine being available to every person in the world?
My wife is a key worker - and yesterday went for her test, there were a total of 3 people waiting for the test and that includes my wife!
Post by: chrisw1 on April 24, 2020, 10:38:41 AM
So the Bundesliga is looking to return in early May and the earliest conceivable resumption time for the PL is January? I know Germany has done better than us in controlling the virus, but you can't conceive us catching up with them for 9 months?What's the obsession with finishing the season anyway? They won't be playing again until there's a vaccine available, I reckon.Correct, which is why January is the earliest conceivable resumption time.
When the lockdown is loosened there will be specific instructions abour mass gatherings, which means any group of over a dozen or so will be outlawed. How many will be required for a behind-closed-doors game? - someone here speculated 280 (and with the risk of fans gathering either outside the ground or elsewhere).
I cannot see competitive football - or any sport - being viable for months. And that means that the 2019-20 season will have become irrelevant.
Post by: sid1964 on April 24, 2020, 10:42:42 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 24, 2020, 10:46:04 AM
So why are people saying that no football until a vaccine is discovered?
Is it so people can attend a game - will we have to have to have had the injection (have letter of proof) before being allowed in, how about if you have not had the vaccine because you are immune to the virus?
Will you have had to have the vaccine before being allowed back to work?
Let's see what happens with the phone app being developed, but I don't think you're too far off there with what to expect for some semblance of 'old' normality to prevail.
Quote
I cannot see a vaccine being available to every person in the world?
Probably not, so I won't be surprised to see big changes in how we can and will want to travel the world.
Post by: garyellis on April 24, 2020, 11:05:30 AM
Bundesliga are totally in the hands of the key decision makers; they just have plans to be ready. It would be an interesting wager to see if they do return the beginning of May considering what Merkel us sayingSo the Bundesliga is looking to return in early May and the earliest conceivable resumption time for the PL is January? I know Germany has done better than us in controlling the virus, but you can't conceive us catching up with them for 9 months?What's the obsession with finishing the season anyway? They won't be playing again until there's a vaccine available, I reckon.Correct, which is why January is the earliest conceivable resumption time.
When the lockdown is loosened there will be specific instructions abour mass gatherings, which means any group of over a dozen or so will be outlawed. How many will be required for a behind-closed-doors game? - someone here speculated 280 (and with the risk of fans gathering either outside the ground or elsewhere).
I cannot see competitive football - or any sport - being viable for months. And that means that the 2019-20 season will have become irrelevant.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-merkel-warns-germany-covid-19-crisis-still-at-the-beginning-11977468
Post by: sid1964 on April 24, 2020, 11:05:43 AM
Do we honestly believe that Purslow and the other chief execs and owners are worried if no fans are allowed into the grounds the truth is they could not careless - they just want the money from the TV revenues! that is why they want to play the games.
If every game for the next 10 years were played behind closed doors as long as they get the money from SKY etc. they are happy.
Post by: Brassneck on April 24, 2020, 11:12:53 AM
And UEFA say decide final standings on "sporting merit" (vague huh?) and:
"Uefa has laid out two primary conditions under which it would accept the abandonment of a league. The first would involve being instructed to do so by a government, which is the case in the Netherlands; the second is “insurmountable economic problems”."
Accept the abandonment of a league? Who the fuck do they think they are?
I think that comment is directed more at how entries for next season's European competitions are determined. (They are clearly planning on staging next season's competitions).
My worry, is Sheff U and their game in hand. If the league are forced to do something there, it will be either finish the league as it stands or average points for the game in hand. It is very possible that they will do the same for all league placings. This of course would see us down. The league already have the power within the rules to allow a result to stand in a game which lasts for less than 90 minutes. That is an indication that they might be able to vote for something similar regarding league placings.
Post by: Small Rodent on April 24, 2020, 11:16:14 AM
Lots of companies are now getting back to work and by middle of May most companies will be back
I've not seen anything, anywhere, saying that.
Post by: DrGonzo on April 24, 2020, 11:50:28 AM
Post by: OCD on April 24, 2020, 11:51:36 AM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 24, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
Lots of companies are now getting back to work and by middle of May most companies will be back
I've not seen anything, anywhere, saying that.
It's probably just his opinion but, for the record, our company has been open all through it and so has the vast majority of people we deal with although some will be working from home. Personally, i think there is no evidence to suggest that things will be better in 3-4 weeks but working life hasn't stopped at any point for lots of people that i know. Everyone i speak to are simply observing the social distancing and staying at home other than to go to work and to go shopping for food etc, and are awaiting further developments.
Post by: Small Rodent on April 24, 2020, 12:54:09 PM
Lots of companies are now getting back to work and by middle of May most companies will be back
I've not seen anything, anywhere, saying that.
It's probably just his opinion but, for the record, our company has been open all through it and so has the vast majority of people we deal with although some will be working from home. Personally, i think there is no evidence to suggest that things will be better in 3-4 weeks but working life hasn't stopped at any point for lots of people that i know. Everyone i speak to are simply observing the social distancing and staying at home other than to go to work and to go shopping for food etc, and are awaiting further developments.
Yes, I've been wfh all the time, but cannot see a day when I'll be back to the office yet.
Post by: Stu on April 24, 2020, 01:08:08 PM
They're obviously not going to be worried about any financial impact, so what leverage will clubs have? The prem could take action on players but that's not a good look, fining/banning players that are concerned for their, and their families, welfare.
Post by: aev on April 24, 2020, 01:13:10 PM
What happens if the Prem says right, everyone back to play behind closed doors in four weeks time and a bunch of players, who are aware of their value, just say um, no? A lot of footballers are divs but not all, and they could reasonably say that full contact physical sport, with players sweating and flobbing everywhere is stupid during a pandemic.
They're obviously not going to be worried about any financial impact, so what leverage will clubs have? The prem could take action on players but that's not a good look, fining/banning players that are concerned for their, and their families, welfare.
This is one of the points Gary Neville was making.
He had a meeting regarding his restaurant and what would be required to operate (50% capacity to ensure tables spread out etc) and then a meeting regarding Salford and it is clear that these measures are incompatible with football. Throw in the fact that some professional players maybe asthmatic or have other health issues and he said increasingly fears that it cant restart any time soon.
Post by: andyh on April 24, 2020, 01:16:29 PM
No cricket until at least July 1st.Seems there is only one sport that believes it might be immune.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 24, 2020, 01:19:33 PM
Obviously if we are relegated, then as most say on here we could sue the premier league - but that could take months before it comes to courts and by then the new season will be well underway, also I am sure that if the premier league took this decision they would be backed by EUFA
If legal action is taken, it will not go the way you are suggesting. If a club was relegated and took legal action, the first thing to happen would be application for an injunction to stop it happening until the court case is resolved. The reason for this is that the PL would not be able to reinstate the club if they lost the case as they would have moved on with promoted teams. No value could be put on remedying the injured party because they could be out of the PL for years. Therefore the case has to be heard and resolved in court before the whole of football down the leagues could continue in the way it was.
Post by: Stu on April 24, 2020, 01:22:17 PM
What happens if the Prem says right, everyone back to play behind closed doors in four weeks time and a bunch of players, who are aware of their value, just say um, no? A lot of footballers are divs but not all, and they could reasonably say that full contact physical sport, with players sweating and flobbing everywhere is stupid during a pandemic.
They're obviously not going to be worried about any financial impact, so what leverage will clubs have? The prem could take action on players but that's not a good look, fining/banning players that are concerned for their, and their families, welfare.
This is one of the points Gary Neville was making.
He had a meeting regarding his restaurant and what would be required to operate (50% capacity to ensure tables spread out etc) and then a meeting regarding Salford and it is clear that these measures are incompatible with football. Throw in the fact that some professional players maybe asthmatic or have other health issues and he said increasingly fears that it cant restart any time soon.
It's just common sense. Whatever that is worth in football, I guess.
Post by: David_Nab on April 24, 2020, 01:37:36 PM
What happens if the Prem says right, everyone back to play behind closed doors in four weeks time and a bunch of players, who are aware of their value, just say um, no? A lot of footballers are divs but not all, and they could reasonably say that full contact physical sport, with players sweating and flobbing everywhere is stupid during a pandemic.
They're obviously not going to be worried about any financial impact, so what leverage will clubs have? The prem could take action on players but that's not a good look, fining/banning players that are concerned for their, and their families, welfare.
Plymouth chairmen raised the point that if he had a player refuse to play as he didn't feel safe he would not force him too
Quote
More importantly, if it is not safe for a crowd to watch a contact sport, how can it be safe for a participant? We would respect any individual player who said he did not want to play until assured it was completely safe.
https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2020/april/chairmans-chat/
Post by: paul_e on April 24, 2020, 02:16:34 PM
Obviously if we are relegated, then as most say on here we could sue the premier league - but that could take months before it comes to courts and by then the new season will be well underway, also I am sure that if the premier league took this decision they would be backed by EUFA
If legal action is taken, it will not go the way you are suggesting. If a club was relegated and took legal action, the first thing to happen would be application for an injunction to stop it happening until the court case is resolved. The reason for this is that the PL would not be able to reinstate the club if they lost the case as they would have moved on with promoted teams. No value could be put on remedying the injured party because they could be out of the PL for years. Therefore the case has to be heard and resolved in court before the whole of football down the leagues could continue in the way it was.
Absolutely, this is why they need to end the season in a way that doesn't create legal issues.
Post by: Mister E on April 24, 2020, 02:38:29 PM
Of course, we don't really know, Chris. However, the rate of the drop in cases is likely to be slow, and there has been some success in curbing the virus' growth due to lockdown. So, the resumption of mass gatherings of any number is unlikely to be sanctioned any time soon.So the Bundesliga is looking to return in early May and the earliest conceivable resumption time for the PL is January? I know Germany has done better than us in controlling the virus, but you can't conceive us catching up with them for 9 months?What's the obsession with finishing the season anyway? They won't be playing again until there's a vaccine available, I reckon.Correct, which is why January is the earliest conceivable resumption time.
When the lockdown is loosened there will be specific instructions abour mass gatherings, which means any group of over a dozen or so will be outlawed. How many will be required for a behind-closed-doors game? - someone here speculated 280 (and with the risk of fans gathering either outside the ground or elsewhere).
I cannot see competitive football - or any sport - being viable for months. And that means that the 2019-20 season will have become irrelevant.
Maybe I was being too cautious, but most events and sporting diaries are being cancelled - why would football expect to get some sort of golden ticket?
Post by: mr underhill on April 24, 2020, 04:07:54 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 24, 2020, 04:18:59 PM
Obviously if we are relegated, then as most say on here we could sue the premier league - but that could take months before it comes to courts and by then the new season will be well underway, also I am sure that if the premier league took this decision they would be backed by EUFA
If legal action is taken, it will not go the way you are suggesting. If a club was relegated and took legal action, the first thing to happen would be application for an injunction to stop it happening until the court case is resolved. The reason for this is that the PL would not be able to reinstate the club if they lost the case as they would have moved on with promoted teams. No value could be put on remedying the injured party because they could be out of the PL for years. Therefore the case has to be heard and resolved in court before the whole of football down the leagues could continue in the way it was.
Absolutely, this is why they need to end the season in a way that doesn't create legal issues.
Won’t voiding it create just as many legal issues involving those who miss out? Or are they to blithely accept it for the good of Aston Villa?
How would you envisage instigating proceedings over a vote you took part in and subsequently lost?
Post by: David_Nab on April 24, 2020, 04:19:22 PM
16 clubs voted for
9 against
9 abstained to leave it to league to decide
League decided no prom/rel
Post by: Chris Smith on April 24, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
it doesn't - just the EPL, which is obviously a self absorbed narcissistic steaming pile of shit.
Probably right but with so many stakeholders - players, sponsors, tv, advertisers, agents, governing bodies etc - everyone is being ultra cautious and striving to avoid any blame and potential claims that might ensue. I think the likely eventual outcome of the season being abandoned will only be reached in small incremental steps.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 24, 2020, 05:00:07 PM
Ajax finishing number one spot for the Champions League and AZ Alkmaar plays the preliminary round for the champion League. Feyenoord (3rd) assured of the group stage of the Europa League and PSV (4th) and Willem II (5th) of the preliminary rounds in Europa League
Post by: andyh on April 24, 2020, 05:28:01 PM
Dutch football season does not continue anymore. ADO Den Haag and RKC Waalwijk are not going to be relegated to the lower league.Given what UEFA said yesterday, that may not mean anything.
Ajax finishing number one spot for the Champions League and AZ Alkmaar plays the preliminary round for the champion League. Feyenoord (3rd) assured of the group stage of the Europa League and PSV (4th) and Willem II (5th) of the preliminary rounds in Europa League
Post by: Des Little on April 24, 2020, 06:19:39 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 24, 2020, 06:21:04 PM
I have said many times, football restarting, in any guise, will not be footballs decision.
I agree. Which is a shame as it would be easy enough for them to do.
However, from a business perspective, potential insurance claims etc, waiting to be told by the government is the easiest thing to do.
Glad to see the Dutch have done it. Obviously they are all Villa fans.
Post by: David_Nab on April 24, 2020, 06:39:01 PM
I have said many times, football restarting, in any guise, will not be footballs decision.
I agree. Which is a shame as it would be easy enough for them to do.
However, from a business perspective, potential insurance claims etc, waiting to be told by the government is the easiest thing to do.
Glad to see the Dutch have done it. Obviously they are all Villa fans.
Easy for the Dutch to announce after Gov told them no football till Sept even behind closed doors and I imagine the TV money in the league isn't a massive amount.
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on April 24, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
This is exactly how I see it. I prefer to take our chances playing our remaining games in closed stadiums rather than be relegated in a Premier League office. I just cannot see them just voiding the season despite what has happened in Holland.And UEFA say decide final standings on "sporting merit" (vague huh?) and:
"Uefa has laid out two primary conditions under which it would accept the abandonment of a league. The first would involve being instructed to do so by a government, which is the case in the Netherlands; the second is “insurmountable economic problems”."
Accept the abandonment of a league? Who the fuck do they think they are?
I think that comment is directed more at how entries for next season's European competitions are determined. (They are clearly planning on staging next season's competitions).
My worry, is Sheff U and their game in hand. If the league are forced to do something there, it will be either finish the league as it stands or average points for the game in hand. It is very possible that they will do the same for all league placings. This of course would see us down. The league already have the power within the rules to allow a result to stand in a game which lasts for less than 90 minutes. That is an indication that they might be able to vote for something similar regarding league placings.
Post by: London Villan on April 24, 2020, 07:17:37 PM
Post by: Legion on April 24, 2020, 07:23:01 PM
Could we just play our game in hand? Less logistical problems for one game? Then call it a day.
Can we play it against Stevenage Borough?
Post by: Richard E on April 24, 2020, 07:33:28 PM
Could we just play our game in hand? Less logistical problems for one game? Then call it a day.
Can we play it against Stevenage Borough?
Reserves
Post by: brian green on April 24, 2020, 08:05:18 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 24, 2020, 08:08:10 PM
Post by: garyellis on April 24, 2020, 08:13:32 PM
Post by: CT on April 24, 2020, 08:56:14 PM
Then I'm thinking about our last game, and wondering if we'd win this one 😉
Post by: Brassneck on April 24, 2020, 09:42:28 PM
If (as many are claiming) it is unsafe to play contact sport for months, next season will be unplayable but there would still be time to finish this season after Christmas.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 24, 2020, 10:07:57 PM
Wouldn't that send a huge amount of clubs to the wall as they would have no 20-21 season income? Sounds like an appalling plan unless I've missed something.
Post by: Legion on April 24, 2020, 10:09:00 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 24, 2020, 10:25:14 PM
Right, so we're playing Stevenage Reserves Ladies U16s.
Then I'm thinking about our last game, and wondering if we'd win this one 😉
Bet we still concede from a corner
Post by: Legion on April 24, 2020, 10:28:02 PM
Post by: Aldridge Villa on April 24, 2020, 10:35:48 PM
Post by: Richard E on April 24, 2020, 10:37:49 PM
It's a Cornalty.
A coronalty.
Post by: slammer on April 24, 2020, 11:48:25 PM
If you take the current bottom six, do points per game for home matches then multiply by 19, do the same for away matches, at first check I reckon we will have 4 teams below us, food for thought.
Post by: Brassneck on April 24, 2020, 11:52:16 PM
This average points doesn't take into account that Aston Villa have played 2 more away matches than home matches.
If you take the current bottom six, do points per game for home matches then multiply by 19, do the same for away matches, at first check I reckon we will have 4 teams below us, food for thought.
It does - They average our home games (which are around 1.1 point a game) and our away games which are little over 0.5 point per game.
Even averaging out home and away, we still end up bottom 3.
Post by: Brassneck on April 24, 2020, 11:54:38 PM
I don't know if I'm missing something here but a few people on various forums have advocated playing the remainder of this season during some part of when the 2020-21 season should have been played, scrap the 20-21 season and then start a proper 2021-22 season on time.
Wouldn't that send a huge amount of clubs to the wall as they would have no 20-21 season income? Sounds like an appalling plan unless I've missed something.
It won't happen. If next season can be played out, they will play it. Absolutely no way on earth will they scrap next season unless covid19 renders it unplayable. UEFA already seem to be planning for next season.
Post by: slammer on April 25, 2020, 12:23:58 AM
Agreed by taking the two averages, but if you factor up by 19 it changes because we have played fewer home matches, I agree that the scenario is very unlikely to happen.This average points doesn't take into account that Aston Villa have played 2 more away matches than home matches.
If you take the current bottom six, do points per game for home matches then multiply by 19, do the same for away matches, at first check I reckon we will have 4 teams below us, food for thought.
It does - They average our home games (which are around 1.1 point a game) and our away games which are little over 0.5 point per game.
Even averaging out home and away, we still end up bottom 3.
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 12:30:20 AM
Agreed by taking the two averages, but if you factor up by 19 it changes because we have played fewer home matches, I agree that the scenario is very unlikely to happen.This average points doesn't take into account that Aston Villa have played 2 more away matches than home matches.
If you take the current bottom six, do points per game for home matches then multiply by 19, do the same for away matches, at first check I reckon we will have 4 teams below us, food for thought.
It does - They average our home games (which are around 1.1 point a game) and our away games which are little over 0.5 point per game.
Even averaging out home and away, we still end up bottom 3.
We have 6 home games left so by averaging points, they'd give us 6.6 points
Then 4 away games at just over 0.5 a game gives us another 2 points
So by averaging the points out, we'd get just under 9 added to what we've already got. This would keep us 2nd from bottom.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 25, 2020, 12:36:31 AM
Agreed by taking the two averages, but if you factor up by 19 it changes because we have played fewer home matches, I agree that the scenario is very unlikely to happen.This average points doesn't take into account that Aston Villa have played 2 more away matches than home matches.
If you take the current bottom six, do points per game for home matches then multiply by 19, do the same for away matches, at first check I reckon we will have 4 teams below us, food for thought.
It does - They average our home games (which are around 1.1 point a game) and our away games which are little over 0.5 point per game.
Even averaging out home and away, we still end up bottom 3.
We have 6 home games left so by averaging points, they'd give us 6.6 points
Then 4 away games at just over 0.5 a game gives us another 2 points
So by averaging the points out, we'd get just under 9 added to what we've already got. This would keep us 2nd from bottom.
You seem very keen to have us relegated for some reason.
Post by: Risso on April 25, 2020, 12:36:31 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 12:45:00 AM
Agreed by taking the two averages, but if you factor up by 19 it changes because we have played fewer home matches, I agree that the scenario is very unlikely to happen.This average points doesn't take into account that Aston Villa have played 2 more away matches than home matches.
If you take the current bottom six, do points per game for home matches then multiply by 19, do the same for away matches, at first check I reckon we will have 4 teams below us, food for thought.
It does - They average our home games (which are around 1.1 point a game) and our away games which are little over 0.5 point per game.
Even averaging out home and away, we still end up bottom 3.
We have 6 home games left so by averaging points, they'd give us 6.6 points
Then 4 away games at just over 0.5 a game gives us another 2 points
So by averaging the points out, we'd get just under 9 added to what we've already got. This would keep us 2nd from bottom.
You seem very keen to have us relegated for some reason.
Why would I want us relegated?
I've said numerous times that I couldn't give a shit about any of this other than Villa staying up. I probably want us to stay up more than most do - Even you Mr Woodhall.
I've thought it through for hours, I've even worked out the average points for each of the bottom 6 (yes I know I'm sad). However, I cannot believe that people have just been giving out the template "void it" for the past month, without even thinking about other options or the arguments of other clubs. When I point this out, it seems to touch a nerve for some reason.
Post by: OzVilla on April 25, 2020, 12:49:50 AM
What gets me is this absolute conviction that both the Stripeys and Leeds were both going to stroll the 2 automatic promotion spots. There’s absolutely nothing decided in that division at all, especially looking at their remaining fixtures. They act like they’ve both got 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' style points gaps between them and the rest.
Post by: David_Nab on April 25, 2020, 12:53:44 AM
I don't even know why they bothering with stadiums if there no fans ,might as well play at training grounds
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 25, 2020, 01:06:04 AM
Why would I want us relegated?
I've said numerous times that I couldn't give a shit about any of this other than Villa staying up. I probably want us to stay up more than most do - Even you Mr Woodhall.
I've thought it through for hours, I've even worked out the average points for each of the bottom 6 (yes I know I'm sad). However, I cannot believe that people have just been giving out the template "void it" for the past month, without even thinking about other options or the arguments of other clubs. When I point this out, it seems to touch a nerve for some reason.
Maybe if you didn't shout down everyone who puts forward an idea that would result in anything except us getting relegated, while at the same time claiming moral superiority over the rest of us, eyebrows wouldn't be raised and nerves would remain untouched.
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 01:14:26 AM
Why would I want us relegated?
I've said numerous times that I couldn't give a shit about any of this other than Villa staying up. I probably want us to stay up more than most do - Even you Mr Woodhall.
I've thought it through for hours, I've even worked out the average points for each of the bottom 6 (yes I know I'm sad). However, I cannot believe that people have just been giving out the template "void it" for the past month, without even thinking about other options or the arguments of other clubs. When I point this out, it seems to touch a nerve for some reason.
Maybe if you didn't shout down everyone who puts forward an idea that would result in anything except us getting relegated, while at the same time claiming moral superiority over the rest of us, eyebrows wouldn't be raised and nerves would remain untouched.
Didn't realise I'd shouted any ideas down. Voiding it is a perfectly reasonable idea and one we all hope happens. Where have I "shouted it down"? Where have I shouted anything down in fact?
I don't claim any moral superiority - I have none, I just want us to stay up at all costs morals don't even come into it. Where have I claimed moral superiority?
It's a discussion on Covid19 and its effects. I am discussing all options as it interests me.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 25, 2020, 01:28:10 AM
Why would I want us relegated?
I've said numerous times that I couldn't give a shit about any of this other than Villa staying up. I probably want us to stay up more than most do - Even you Mr Woodhall.
I've thought it through for hours, I've even worked out the average points for each of the bottom 6 (yes I know I'm sad). However, I cannot believe that people have just been giving out the template "void it" for the past month, without even thinking about other options or the arguments of other clubs. When I point this out, it seems to touch a nerve for some reason.
Maybe if you didn't shout down everyone who puts forward an idea that would result in anything except us getting relegated, while at the same time claiming moral superiority over the rest of us, eyebrows wouldn't be raised and nerves would remain untouched.
Didn't realise I'd shouted any ideas down. Voiding it is a perfectly reasonable idea and one we all hope happens. Where have I "shouted it down"? Where have I shouted anything down in fact?
I don't claim any moral superiority - I have none, I just want us to stay up at all costs morals don't even come into it. Where have I claimed moral superiority?
It's a discussion on Covid19 and its effects. I am discussing all options as it interests me.
Every time anyone suggests anything else you jump on it and say it's only because what they're saying would keep the Villa up and you're different to all that. Every single time. Perhaps you should give it a rest.
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 01:33:47 AM
Why would I want us relegated?
I've said numerous times that I couldn't give a shit about any of this other than Villa staying up. I probably want us to stay up more than most do - Even you Mr Woodhall.
I've thought it through for hours, I've even worked out the average points for each of the bottom 6 (yes I know I'm sad). However, I cannot believe that people have just been giving out the template "void it" for the past month, without even thinking about other options or the arguments of other clubs. When I point this out, it seems to touch a nerve for some reason.
Maybe if you didn't shout down everyone who puts forward an idea that would result in anything except us getting relegated, while at the same time claiming moral superiority over the rest of us, eyebrows wouldn't be raised and nerves would remain untouched.
Didn't realise I'd shouted any ideas down. Voiding it is a perfectly reasonable idea and one we all hope happens. Where have I "shouted it down"? Where have I shouted anything down in fact?
I don't claim any moral superiority - I have none, I just want us to stay up at all costs morals don't even come into it. Where have I claimed moral superiority?
It's a discussion on Covid19 and its effects. I am discussing all options as it interests me.
Every time anyone suggests anything else you jump on it and say it's only because what they're saying would keep the Villa up and you're different to all that. Every single time. Perhaps you should give it a rest.
Every time?
Excluding this page, I've just gone back over 2 the previous pages. I've made 5 posts and far from being "every time", I haven't said that once.
Of course people are going to say what solution keeps Villa up is best, just like teams like Albion are going to say the opposite. I really don't see what the big issue with brushing this under the carpet is?
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 25, 2020, 02:52:05 AM
Won’t voiding it create just as many legal issues involving those who miss out? Or are they to blithely accept it for the good of Aston Villa?
How would you envisage instigating proceedings over a vote you took part in and subsequently lost?
So next to nobody, yet we're to take the poll as if it were God's own word?
You seem to want it both ways here. Have your views by all means but every single time I suggest there's mileage in playing out the season if safe to do so, I get shot down. This despite the fact that most football fans want to see the season played out.
People don't like being called blinkered and others "thinking for them" yet that is exactly what they are doing to the PL board and its members. How can anyone possibly know what is being discussed at board level or what their motives are? Talk about double standards.
Anyone who thinks the PL & its members are only considering money is being very naive and anyone who thinks that voiding the season is the only solution is blinkered. You can't escape that.
There are numerous options, some of which haven't even been discussed yet. Until we know what options are definitely available, it's pointless trying to second guess what the league are doing or what is the best option.
Any fans forum you care to look at. I'd guess Norwich, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford & WHU would probably be on our side but overwhelmingly, fans want to see the season played out if safe to do so. As would we if we were mid table.
I am not hostile to other posters, neither have I pointed the finger at anyone. You have a few genuine people at every club who put the morals first, then you have a few drama queens and then finally, you have a few who are that blinkered, they might not even realise that there are other valid options. I have my own opinions on who is who but I keep them to myself. If I broadcast them, perhaps that would be deemed hostile.
It looks as though if the league is voided we will be relegated, according to UEFA guidelines.Uefa aren’t the rule setters for domestic competitions are they?
Let’s hope not. Otherwise we’ll see the biggest U-Turn in H&V history.
Your stance is the same as mine, ie if it can be played out safely then do it.
However, the majority are claiming that voiding the season is the only option. My point is that they wouldn’t be stating that if our position was better.
The posts are becoming ridiculous. Void the PL but give placings in the Championship in order to promote Leeds?
Mid table sides obviously have massive incentives financially to finish the season. They stand to lose millions in sponsorship and advertising deals, notwithstanding any tv money. Also there is prize money based on league placing.
Paul e. Your stance is almost the same as mine. However, if we were 10th, having played the season in a style that we associate to DS, do you think we’d have such an overwhelming clamour on here to void the session? Or do you think the majority would hope for the opportunity to watch the team play 10 more games on live tv?
I think we both know the answer.
I do know it.
You say you love your football yet you don't want to give clubs the lifeline that is needed for many to survive.
You'd rather clubs go to the wall, destroying the English leagues as we've known them just because the way to survival is (in your opinion) "a souless travesty of what the game should be"?
I have looked over many quotes from fans of other clubs. The vast majority want the season to play out. It is only on here that we have the blinkered obsession with voiding it because of our own interests.
Want me to carry on?
Post by: olaftab on April 25, 2020, 05:28:09 AM
Post by: aev on April 25, 2020, 07:21:56 AM
Post by: stevo_st on April 25, 2020, 07:30:11 AM
Post by: aj2k77 on April 25, 2020, 07:39:05 AM
Post by: aev on April 25, 2020, 07:44:45 AM
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29094232/uk-government-hands-ecb-lead-viability-bio-secure-sport
Post by: The Edge on April 25, 2020, 10:31:02 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Yes but other than that Brassneck has hardly said a word.....😳
They're not shouting anyone down though are they? The majority of them are just pointing out other alternatives. There are a couple arguing about the merits of a BBC poll but that's about it.
For example, how is: Let’s hope not. Otherwise we’ll see the biggest U-Turn in H&V history shouting someone down?
Post by: garyellis on April 25, 2020, 10:48:22 AM
I've said it before, football isn't and cannot be played or calculated on paper. If all games cannot be completed safely then the season must be voided. They have to work out a cut off point that doesn't intrude on next season and bite the bullet. All businesses are losing money, it's the same world wide, the clubs are going to have to accept that and have all players take a cut.Totally agree with this the high end of football seems to be trying to operate in a bubble. The economic affect of this virus is being felt throughout the economy and the real pain in economic terms as still yet to come. I think it's disgraceful premier league teams are furloughing staff and playing staff are receiving weekly amounts (for doing nothing) most of us could only dream of.
Post by: Zouch Villa on April 25, 2020, 11:32:14 AM
Football sold its soul along with the tv rights, and the financial viability of clubs is held in the balance as long as there are potential penalties for not fulfilling all fixtures. Complaining about that now will be hypocritical, given that many have built their whole business model around that principle.
Post by: brian green on April 25, 2020, 12:00:53 PM
Post by: Zouch Villa on April 25, 2020, 12:06:29 PM
So they deserve to go bust the lot of them. Just like you and me and everybody else facing this catastrophe.
I wouldn’t go quite that far Brian. Just that there will be a lot horse trading to do before they can reach as agreement, but the most likely outcome is that they will find a way to complete the fixtures.
Post by: mr underhill on April 25, 2020, 12:08:05 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on April 25, 2020, 12:13:34 PM
Post by: aev on April 25, 2020, 12:47:02 PM
I find it very unlikely that another ball will be kicked before August, at the very least.
I think they will get football done.
Mind you, the Dutch don’t...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/25/premier-league-completion-probably-not-realistic-says-dutch-fa-president-just-spee
Post by: old man villa fan on April 25, 2020, 01:20:18 PM
Sadly, the decision of how we close out this season will have as much to do with what suits Sky, than what is best for football clubs, players and the public.
Football sold its soul along with the tv rights, and the financial viability of clubs is held in the balance as long as there are potential penalties for not fulfilling all fixtures. Complaining about that now will be hypocritical, given that many have built their whole business model around that principle.
The answer has to be in coming to an equitable deal between TV and football. In my opinion, I do not think that can happen by trying to play out the season. I think it can by working something out for the future in how football is broadcast going forward.
If a company is in financial difficulty, they want to be in control of their future. Decisions made are theirs, not in the hands of others. In this way they can plan their way out of it. They are able to reduce expenditure to the minimum. For a football club sitting and waiting for a season to recommence beyond a reasonable period, could see the end of them. Fans of a club would rather see their club slide down the league due to cost cutting but stay afloat than go out of business.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 25, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
Article on cricinfo talks about the joint approach sports are taking.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29094232/uk-government-hands-ecb-lead-viability-bio-secure-sport
Why is it that other sports can talk openly and realistically and football cannot. Perhaps it's the media undermining the 'official' view by chasing others to comment in a way that drives the conversation or using the famous 'source close to'. It's politics played out in the commercial world. Is there that much of a divide between the PL and the EFL that they cannot talk as one. We are not really hearing the official line of the PL. They are keeping their heads down. Perhaps what is happening now is showing the breakaway PL as being the worst thing to happen to football and what was it for, greed.
Post by: peckvillajunior on April 25, 2020, 01:46:20 PM
Post by: Louzie0 on April 25, 2020, 02:26:31 PM
The Times reporting they are looking at limited venues to negate policing etc ..project restart.
I don't even know why they bothering with stadiums if there no fans ,might as well play at training grounds
There was a proposal in the Times about a week ago that the St George’s football centre could host all the games that needed to be played out, creating a sort of bubble for teams and support staff as there’s a big hotel there as well as training and medical/ physio services. If the object is simply to play the rest of the season, that could work.
Post by: David_Nab on April 25, 2020, 02:26:40 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
So much bigger loss's for those at the top
I'm sure this is the new distribution model after top clubs complained they should get more TV cash on merit
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 02:44:21 PM
If the table I have seen is correct what makes it tricky in the PL is the TV money is not equally shared
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
So much bigger loss's for those at the top
I'm sure this is the new distribution model after top clubs complained they should get more TV cash on merit
It's putting us on the same matchday revenue as teams with 30,000 attendances, despite us having 2 more games at home to play than some of them. Only a million out (only) but it is an example of the inaccuracy. Man U on more than 3 million per game in match day revenue. Around 6 times our amount.
Commercial and retail are where big losses look to be made. Again (according to the table), Man U on more than 20 million a game, we're on around 0.75 million.
Post by: Ads on April 25, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 03:48:51 PM
Even more reason to void the league.
Yeah - Man U’s “Jack money” up in smoke. I like it.
Post by: CT Villan on April 25, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
The flip-side is those numbers represent +/-25% of the season, so the clubs should have already received the other 75%, no ? Obviously the projected losses are not trivial, but the income received should not be forgotten.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 25, 2020, 04:02:38 PM
If the table I have seen is correct what makes it tricky in the PL is the TV money is not equally shared
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
So much bigger loss's for those at the top
I'm sure this is the new distribution model after top clubs complained they should get more TV cash on merit
I like the look of that, we'd only lose the equivalent of a Wesley. I think we can handle that :D
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 04:05:07 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
The flip-side is those numbers represent +/-25% of the season, so the clubs should have already received the other 75%, no ? Obviously the projected losses are not trivial, but the income received should not be forgotten.
I'm reading it as that as well but the clubs need the income to match their wages accordingly. Income received should be taken up more or less with expenditure.
Post by: old man villa fan on April 25, 2020, 04:19:49 PM
If the table I have seen is correct what makes it tricky in the PL is the TV money is not equally shared
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
So much bigger loss's for those at the top
I'm sure this is the new distribution model after top clubs complained they should get more TV cash on merit
How much accuracy is there in things like this?
I think I read that Villa had about 8,000 tickets per match that had to be kept an sold on a match by match basis i.e. outside of season tickets and corporate. Assuming that season ticket holders do not get a refund as it stands (and that is a separate question), how do they get to £2.8m loss of income from match receipts.
Post by: Brassneck on April 25, 2020, 04:30:08 PM
Another 0.2 Million spent at each game on food and drink?
Post by: aev on April 25, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/25/finishing-premier-league-season-pointless-football?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Post by: eamonn on April 25, 2020, 10:00:47 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
The flip-side is those numbers represent +/-25% of the season, so the clubs should have already received the other 75%, no ? Obviously the projected losses are not trivial, but the income received should not be forgotten.
Straight out the door into the players' pockets.
Post by: algy on April 25, 2020, 11:05:14 PM
Article on cricinfo talks about the joint approach sports are taking.Just thinking about the amount of money being lost, I can see this being the most viable option. Identify "football island" - any old uninhabited island in the English channel (or with so few people that they could all be realistically tested, eg Alderney). Spend £25m or so setting up 4 main pitches + training facilities, medical facilities, etc. Play games like the world cup - players isolated from the rest of the world, every game televised, guarantee of every team having 1 free-to-air game at least.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29094232/uk-government-hands-ecb-lead-viability-bio-secure-sport
The money that's involved, I can't see the season being voided - much as I think it should be.
Post by: Rory on April 26, 2020, 12:56:13 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/b6x7rDS/EWc-Ua5y-Xs-AI-Sku-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6x7rDS)
The flip-side is those numbers represent +/-25% of the season, so the clubs should have already received the other 75%, no ? Obviously the projected losses are not trivial, but the income received should not be forgotten.
Straight out the door into the players' pockets.
I think that's an important point. The % of a club's turnover that goes to players is crazy. I get that every professional is within their rights to get the best deal they can for their family and their future in what is a very uncertain career.
But if anything reflects the disconnect between 'the business' and the real world, it's the sobering realisation that my brother, who works on the turnstiles, earns in a decade what top players earn in a day.
Post by: Rory on April 26, 2020, 01:00:38 AM
Post by: Dick Edwards on April 26, 2020, 07:53:28 AM
Didn’t realise Paul Wilson was a Villa fan.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/25/finishing-premier-league-season-pointless-football?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The football authorities reckon watching televised games played in empty stadiums is what the masses want. I for one would have no desire to watch such an empty, soulless spectacle on tv.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 26, 2020, 08:44:01 AM
Didn’t realise Paul Wilson was a Villa fan.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/25/finishing-premier-league-season-pointless-football?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The football authorities reckon watching televised games played in empty stadiums is what the masses want. I for one would have no desire to watch such an empty, soulless spectacle on tv.
I won't be watching. And there's no way I'd pay. If it's pay per view, then it'll drop off after one game. The only way they could protect that revenue stream will be to make tv sports subscribers cough up ten weeks of money up front.
Post by: aj2k77 on April 26, 2020, 09:15:37 AM
Didn’t realise Paul Wilson was a Villa fan.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/25/finishing-premier-league-season-pointless-football?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The football authorities reckon watching televised games played in empty stadiums is what the masses want. I for one would have no desire to watch such an empty, soulless spectacle on tv.
I would have no interest watching ''friendlies'' weeks after tens of thousands of people had died, then supposed to suddenly be interested in watching millionaires, who still continue to be paid millions, squabling over what portion of their wedge they collect in a few months instead of today. Meanwhile people are being laid of left right and center. They can fuck off and fuck off with their precious Premier League as well.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 26, 2020, 09:36:51 AM
I've said before that I think behind closed doors will happen because I envisage a lifting of lockdown in terms of businesses reopening, me going back to work in my office etc. but mass gatherings still being banned. In this context I think matches will probably restart but given the circumstances crowds won't be allowed to watch. When this will be and what season will be played remains open to question but increasingly I think this is more likely to be August/September and 2020/21 season. I get why people are unhappy with this prospect, it's not what football should be, but nothing is what it should be at the moment. I, for one, will almost certainly be tuning in.
Post by: Brassneck on April 26, 2020, 09:47:30 AM
This season is about 50/50 at best likely to be able to be played out.
Post by: DrGonzo on April 26, 2020, 09:51:08 AM
Post by: andyh on April 26, 2020, 10:04:04 AM
Now it’s seen (by some) as a way of ‘boosting morale’ amongst the masses or ‘upholding the integrity the game’
What a load of old shat!
There isn’t even a consistent approach by the leagues in this country, let alone in Europe.
Some have cancelled, some have voided, some plan to restart and some are waiting..and waiting..and waiting.
As I have said before, if the biggest, most iconic sporting events in the world can cancel months in advance of taking place, then football should realise it’s not the only sport that is immune and pull the plug now.
And yes, I do want it voided to guarantee keeping us up.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 26, 2020, 10:57:10 AM
Post by: old man villa fan on April 26, 2020, 11:27:22 AM
Post by: montague on April 26, 2020, 11:56:19 AM
I'm not fussed on the ultimate decision relegates us or stops us from potentially being relegated. But this season is a bust and just needs to be canned now rather then keep on kicking it down the track. They would be more useful working out how to safely play next season games rather then rushing through scenarios for completing this one.
Agree with this, we wont be playing football in the short term so lets have some clarity. If they decide to relegate us on points per game to date then so be it- I would hope as a club we would show a bit of class and just accept that. The main thing is there is a game and 92 teams at the end of this. On the season to date we deserve to be relegated and were on a downward slide where others were getting results.
Saying that my personal preference would be a bigger PL for next year with 2 coming up and no relegation and the PL financially compensating others who had a realistic chance of coming up.
Post by: NeilH on April 26, 2020, 12:03:40 PM
The Dutch have cancelled their league. No title winners, no relegation, no promotion from the division underneath.
And the clubs in the top two of the second division, namely De Graafschap and Cambuur have already approached lawyers to demand promotion or pay damages. A portent of things to come I fear if the English season is voided.
Post by: andyh on April 26, 2020, 12:35:57 PM
Why cant Wimbledon be played behind closed doors? It would be easier then football to organise. Why cant cricket? Social distancing in cricket is easy.
Why not restart the rugby 6 nations behind closed doors? After all, we were a only part way through the championship before all this happened.
Maybe it’s because the governing bodies in charge of those of those sports are intelligent enough to recognise that they are spectator sports and are meaningless without the crowds.
Behind closed doors? Feck off !
Post by: Richard E on April 26, 2020, 12:41:17 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on April 26, 2020, 12:47:36 PM
The Dutch have cancelled their league. No title winners, no relegation, no promotion from the division underneath.
And the clubs in the top two of the second division, namely De Graafschap and Cambuur have already approached lawyers to demand promotion or pay damages. A portent of things to come I fear if the English season is voided.
Different situation as both teams were already promoted.
Post by: Richard E on April 26, 2020, 12:49:12 PM
Post by: nick harper on April 26, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
The whole thing quickly becomes very difficult. I suspect there may be an attempt to start the season again and they have to give up.
Post by: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 01:30:55 PM
Post by: OzVilla on April 26, 2020, 01:35:19 PM
Post by: Risso on April 26, 2020, 02:06:59 PM
What then you absolute set of twots?! The players have to sit 2 metres apart in the changing room, but it's then OK to tackle other players and be in a wall or whatever?
Wankers. Just fucking cancel it.
Post by: LeeB on April 26, 2020, 02:14:36 PM
In The Times yesterday they said that the Premier League was planning for behind-closed-doors games, where payers arrived individually and obeyed social distancing in the changing rooms....
What then you absolute set of twots?! The players have to sit 2 metres apart in the changing room, but it's then OK to tackle other players and be in a wall or whatever?
Wankers. Just fucking cancel it.
Why not wear those zorba balls like you can do on a stag do? Then there's no physical contact, so the most important thing in the world can be maintained, the undisputed integrity of the EPL.
Post by: TopDeck113 on April 26, 2020, 02:34:31 PM
I’m still not clear what they are going to do if fans insist on congregating outside grounds...
As I've said previously, if after two or three games Liverpool's championship is confirmed, do they really think that half of the city aren't going to take to the streets?
Post by: andyh on April 26, 2020, 02:42:12 PM
Yep, I have posted similar on here as well.I’m still not clear what they are going to do if fans insist on congregating outside grounds...
As I've said previously, if after two or three games Liverpool's championship is confirmed, do they really think that half of the city aren't going to take to the streets?
When they won the Champions league final last season there were between 750k and a million people on the streets for their parade.
They have been waiting 30 years to win the league.
Seriously, there won’t be thousands going to their next 2 games, wherever they are, and there won’t be 100’s of thousands out On the streets when they get the points they need?
Post by: Somniloquism on April 26, 2020, 02:46:36 PM
In The Times yesterday they said that the Premier League was planning for behind-closed-doors games, where payers arrived individually and obeyed social distancing in the changing rooms....
What then you absolute set of twots?! The players have to sit 2 metres apart in the changing room, but it's then OK to tackle other players and be in a wall or whatever?
Wankers. Just fucking cancel it.
it is not just that, how are they supposed to train even. Are they supposed to have pretend matches where they are always 2 meters away from the opposition (obviously sounds like our defenders already do). What about the after training massage and weight training. Will they have to go in one at a time and then the whole areas disinfected. With the tests, will they need to be daily and will they all need to wait for the results before they start? Who will be performing the tests and how fast and accurate will they be? What happens if someone tests positive? Do all players then need to isolate for 7 days?
All this can be planned for next August as more and more is known every day. However to rush job this through to get the season completed as fast as possible and totally screw over next season with shortening it or enforcing more matches a week is very short sighted. I mean what happens if this season is completed in September /October. The relegated team would normally lose players, forced to sell them and / or buy cheaper ones to play. (plus all the non playing stuff that happens when a team is relegated.) There is also then 8 weeks of preseason and planning the travel etc when fixtures are released.
Post by: charlatan on April 26, 2020, 02:50:40 PM
The Dutch have cancelled their league. No title winners, no relegation, no promotion from the division underneath.
And the clubs in the top two of the second division, namely De Graafschap and Cambuur have already approached lawyers to demand promotion or pay damages. A portent of things to come I fear if the English season is voided.
Different situation as both teams were already promoted.
Post by: Steve67 on April 26, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Post by: Mister E on April 26, 2020, 05:14:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 26, 2020, 05:18:56 PM
I’m still not clear what they are going to do if fans insist on congregating outside grounds...
As I've said previously, if after two or three games Liverpool's championship is confirmed, do they really think that half of the city aren't going to take to the streets?
Agreed, pulling resources from the police that they can ill afford at the moment. It will risk peak after peak. It might also be a great way to force the EFL to rethink and void if the fans turn up all the time and their club looks like they might be going down.
The other thing, why have we deferred wages for four months? Why not month on month if they think we might be playing again in June? After all, fans only contribute to around 13% of the overall finances apparently.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on April 26, 2020, 05:52:57 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 26, 2020, 06:31:33 PM
Just what will be the guidelines at corners for instance? No close marking, no impeding of the goalkeeper. Might as well play British Bulldog, or our variant:Cockerusty
And the subs would have to be dotted around the empty stadium. Ball boys would have to carry domestos spray as well to disinfect the ball after every other header, especially when the players start getting sweaty.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2020, 06:34:11 PM
Just what will be the guidelines at corners for instance? No close marking, no impeding of the goalkeeper. Might as well play British Bulldog, or our variant:Cockerusty
And the subs would have to be dotted around the empty stadium. Ball boys would have to carry domestos spray as well to disinfect the ball after every other header, especially when the players start getting sweaty.
Hypothetical question, but what if we score? Are the players still allowed to kiss each other?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 26, 2020, 07:48:42 PM
Here’s a question in relation to the behind closed doors argument.Because neither are 3/4 of the way through a season with hundreds of millions resting on the results for some clubs? It's not that hard to understand why theey want to play it out if they can surely?
Why cant Wimbledon be played behind closed doors? It would be easier then football to organise. Why cant cricket? Social distancing in cricket is easy.
Why not restart the rugby 6 nations behind closed doors? After all, we were a only part way through the championship before all this happened.
Maybe it’s because the governing bodies in charge of those of those sports are intelligent enough to recognise that they are spectator sports and are meaningless without the crowds.
Behind closed doors? Feck off !
Post by: David_Nab on April 26, 2020, 08:57:55 PM
Here’s a question in relation to the behind closed doors argument.Because neither are 3/4 of the way through a season with hundreds of millions resting on the results for some clubs? It's not that hard to understand why theey want to play it out if they can surely?
Why cant Wimbledon be played behind closed doors? It would be easier then football to organise. Why cant cricket? Social distancing in cricket is easy.
Why not restart the rugby 6 nations behind closed doors? After all, we were a only part way through the championship before all this happened.
Maybe it’s because the governing bodies in charge of those of those sports are intelligent enough to recognise that they are spectator sports and are meaningless without the crowds.
Behind closed doors? Feck off !
Other than Wimbledon who took our pandemic insurance and are getting a massive payout the rest all have money and lively hoods to consider just like football.
The wanting to play it out involves at least no fans and possible neutral grounds , it's not the same conditions the rest of the season was played at that's what people have issue with.
Post by: Legion on April 26, 2020, 09:08:22 PM
Post by: Des Little on April 26, 2020, 09:28:34 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 26, 2020, 09:31:26 PM
Post by: The Edge on April 26, 2020, 09:46:42 PM
Yes but no tongues.Just what will be the guidelines at corners for instance? No close marking, no impeding of the goalkeeper. Might as well play British Bulldog, or our variant:Cockerusty
And the subs would have to be dotted around the empty stadium. Ball boys would have to carry domestos spray as well to disinfect the ball after every other header, especially when the players start getting sweaty.
Hypothetical question, but what if we score? Are the players still allowed to kiss each other?
Post by: Steve67 on April 26, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
Post by: aev on April 26, 2020, 09:54:47 PM
Finish at all costs it seems like.
Post by: nick harper on April 26, 2020, 10:13:21 PM
Surprised the PFA will agree to it but who knows?
Finish at all costs it seems like.
Until the court of public opinion sees frontline resources being diverted while people are still dying, and crowds gather where the games are played, putting everyone at risk. Football will do itself no favours.
I don’t think close contact sport is going to work until there is a treatment or vaccine.
Post by: paul_e on April 26, 2020, 10:34:55 PM
With about a quarter of the season left to play Villa have a game in hand and are 1 win from safety with absolutely no certainty that we won't catch a couple of teams above us with the game in hand being key. For that reason any decision that sees us relegated without kicking a ball has a clear legal challenge, anyone who can't see this is either deliberately causing an argument or has a bias against us staying up. I see absolutely no chance of us not going to court in these circumstances, we have clear evidence that the table is too close for there to be any certainty that we'd be relegated because there's too many games to play.
On the flip side Leeds and West Brom will claim that they're practically already promoted but the exact same reason why we can't be relegated works against them, there is no clear certainty that both of them would definitely finish top 2. Don't forget Fulham in 3rd have had games against both postponed and would argue that they are firmly in the race still. They have no clear evidence that voiding the season is taking a guaranteed promotion away from them because there's too many games to play.
Are you seriously of the opinion that these cases would have equal merit in court? The reason we would have a strong case is the exact same reason why their arguments are significantly weaker. voiding the season now creates weak legal challenges, working things out on paper creates the sort of legal cases which could last months and risk the start of next season.
This is all assuming the games aren't played. If they are played in conditions we agree to then the results stand but once again there has to be a time limit on how long we wait before trying to play those games, leaving it open indefinitely would push clubs into administration and, as mentioned many times, creates a contract nightmare with players and sponsors.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 26, 2020, 10:43:44 PM
Just what will be the guidelines at corners for instance? No close marking, no impeding of the goalkeeper. Might as well play British Bulldog, or our variant:Cockerusty
And the subs would have to be dotted around the empty stadium. Ball boys would have to carry domestos spray as well to disinfect the ball after every other header, especially when the players start getting sweaty.
Hypothetical question, but what if we score? Are the players still allowed to kiss each other?
I expect it will be similar to 1m 56 in this video (http://dailymotion.com/video/x1wenv).
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 26, 2020, 10:49:21 PM
It is obscene viewing.
Playing out the season in a hermetically sealed fish bowl would just be the absolute ultimate "fuck you, you don't matter" to the fans. Absolutely fucking obscene.
There are about 1,000 things more important than getting the football season played out right now. It seems totally wrong to be talking about this shit when we have nurses running out of gowns and PPE and fuck knows how many old people dying "off the books".
The entire discourse around relaxing ANY current restrictions is absolutely unbelievable given the death figures we're currently turning in and the way the graph looks.
Shameful.
Post by: Brassneck on April 26, 2020, 11:14:48 PM
It's spilled into the Grealish thread but I'd like Brassneck to respond given he's claiming to be an expert:
With about a quarter of the season left to play Villa have a game in hand and are 1 win from safety with absolutely no certainty that we won't catch a couple of teams above us with the game in hand being key. For that reason any decision that sees us relegated without kicking a ball has a clear legal challenge, anyone who can't see this is either deliberately causing an argument or has a bias against us staying up. I see absolutely no chance of us not going to court in these circumstances, we have clear evidence that the table is too close for there to be any certainty that we'd be relegated because there's too many games to play.
On the flip side Leeds and West Brom will claim that they're practically already promoted but the exact same reason why we can't be relegated works against them, there is no clear certainty that both of them would definitely finish top 2. Don't forget Fulham in 3rd have had games against both postponed and would argue that they are firmly in the race still. They have no clear evidence that voiding the season is taking a guaranteed promotion away from them because there's too many games to play.
Are you seriously of the opinion that these cases would have equal merit in court? The reason we would have a strong case is the exact same reason why their arguments are significantly weaker. voiding the season now creates weak legal challenges, working things out on paper creates the sort of legal cases which could last months and risk the start of next season.
This is all assuming the games aren't played. If they are played in conditions we agree to then the results stand but once again there has to be a time limit on how long we wait before trying to play those games, leaving it open indefinitely would push clubs into administration and, as mentioned many times, creates a contract nightmare with players and sponsors.
Where have I claimed to be an expert? I claimed to have forgotten more about the subject than one particular poster knows (which quite frankly isn't a lot). I also claimed to have researched the PL rules and several Acts of Parliment that concern the subject.
I've said all I really want to say on this subject. Most, if not all of what you ask is already in the thread. Go and have a re-read if you're that bothered. I'm certainly not going to come here answering questions at your beck and call.
Post by: Steve67 on April 26, 2020, 11:28:55 PM
Post by: Brassneck on April 26, 2020, 11:31:05 PM
Oh go on, pretty please. I am genuinely interested Brassneck.
OK but only if you tell us why you think Jack would still be at the club if we go down.
Post by: David_Nab on April 26, 2020, 11:41:43 PM
Post by: algy on April 26, 2020, 11:57:45 PM
It's spilled into the Grealish thread but I'd like Brassneck to respond given he's claiming to be an expert:Where the margin in something is 3pts, so could be altered by a single game, I'm not sure it's appropriate to use average points. As far as I can see, you either play the season out, or void it.
With about a quarter of the season left to play Villa have a game in hand and are 1 win from safety with absolutely no certainty that we won't catch a couple of teams above us with the game in hand being key. For that reason any decision that sees us relegated without kicking a ball has a clear legal challenge, anyone who can't see this is either deliberately causing an argument or has a bias against us staying up. I see absolutely no chance of us not going to court in these circumstances, we have clear evidence that the table is too close for there to be any certainty that we'd be relegated because there's too many games to play.
On the flip side Leeds and West Brom will claim that they're practically already promoted but the exact same reason why we can't be relegated works against them, there is no clear certainty that both of them would definitely finish top 2. Don't forget Fulham in 3rd have had games against both postponed and would argue that they are firmly in the race still. They have no clear evidence that voiding the season is taking a guaranteed promotion away from them because there's too many games to play.
Are you seriously of the opinion that these cases would have equal merit in court? The reason we would have a strong case is the exact same reason why their arguments are significantly weaker. voiding the season now creates weak legal challenges, working things out on paper creates the sort of legal cases which could last months and risk the start of next season.
This is all assuming the games aren't played. If they are played in conditions we agree to then the results stand but once again there has to be a time limit on how long we wait before trying to play those games, leaving it open indefinitely would push clubs into administration and, as mentioned many times, creates a contract nightmare with players and sponsors.
Playing behind closed doors - I can see the reasoning, and as long as it's safe to do so it's probably the fairest way to play the season out. However, there's a problem - what happens to the "relegated" teams? Who replaces them if the Championship has been voided? You'd at least need to play that out too, or scrap relegation. In which case, you're playing a season for what - to award Liverpool a title they've almost won anyway, and give out places in a set of European tournaments that won't take place? And how seriously are we going to take it if we can't possibly be relegated anyway? I'm not sure I'd bother risking anyone's safety over a few friendly matches.
The more I think about it, the more I can't really see that anything other than voiding the season is a viable option ... aside from playing out everything down to League 2, then maybe doing a pre-/post-season playoff for the place in League 2. But then how many thousand people are going to be "isolating" together?
Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2020, 12:23:28 AM
I've said all I really want to say on this subject.
Do you promise? Or is that an excuse for not being able to explain it?
Post by: ROBBO on April 27, 2020, 12:28:53 AM
Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2020, 01:27:18 AM
It's spilled into the Grealish thread but I'd like Brassneck to respond given he's claiming to be an expert:
With about a quarter of the season left to play Villa have a game in hand and are 1 win from safety with absolutely no certainty that we won't catch a couple of teams above us with the game in hand being key. For that reason any decision that sees us relegated without kicking a ball has a clear legal challenge, anyone who can't see this is either deliberately causing an argument or has a bias against us staying up. I see absolutely no chance of us not going to court in these circumstances, we have clear evidence that the table is too close for there to be any certainty that we'd be relegated because there's too many games to play.
On the flip side Leeds and West Brom will claim that they're practically already promoted but the exact same reason why we can't be relegated works against them, there is no clear certainty that both of them would definitely finish top 2. Don't forget Fulham in 3rd have had games against both postponed and would argue that they are firmly in the race still. They have no clear evidence that voiding the season is taking a guaranteed promotion away from them because there's too many games to play.
Are you seriously of the opinion that these cases would have equal merit in court? The reason we would have a strong case is the exact same reason why their arguments are significantly weaker. voiding the season now creates weak legal challenges, working things out on paper creates the sort of legal cases which could last months and risk the start of next season.
This is all assuming the games aren't played. If they are played in conditions we agree to then the results stand but once again there has to be a time limit on how long we wait before trying to play those games, leaving it open indefinitely would push clubs into administration and, as mentioned many times, creates a contract nightmare with players and sponsors.
Where have I claimed to be an expert? I claimed to have forgotten more about the subject than one particular poster knows (which quite frankly isn't a lot). I also claimed to have researched the PL rules and several Acts of Parliment that concern the subject.
I've said all I really want to say on this subject. Most, if not all of what you ask is already in the thread. Go and have a re-read if you're that bothered. I'm certainly not going to come here answering questions at your beck and call.
Well you've claimed that you know a lot more than other people who've questioned you and you've claimed that voiding the season would see legal challenges by leeds and west brom so if the first is true then explain what grounds Leeds and West Brom have a case on that is remotely comparative to what ours would be. You've also thrown around a bunch of allegations about people only wanting to void the season because it suits us but you've failed to explain why it's not the best option.
Oh and no, the answer isn't in the thread or I wouldn't have asked, would I, and it's not about being on anyones beck and call, it's about you giving it the billy big bollocks to OMVF about how much more than him you know and me wanting to see how that lines up with your claim yesterday that there'd be as many legal repercussions from voiding the league as there would for playing it out on paper or with significantly altered conditions.
Post by: CT on April 27, 2020, 06:49:09 AM
Players spitting, players getting sweaty, players breathing heavily. Referees are generally older, does this make them more prone to catching the virus, same as Lino's? Do they all get changed in cubicles before the game, can you get the virus from the ball? How are injuries dealt with, do we ask the NHS or vital services to be at the side of the pitch just in case they are needed? Does this really make sense with so few resources and so many games to play? They all have to have their own individual water bottle for drinking from? I'm sure there are other issues that also need consideration too.
I would imagine you need the medical staff to get a safety certificate for each individual game. It seems absolutely insane even talking about it.
Me and my lad were talking about basic practicalities on our daily walk yesterday. What happens at corners? How do you tackle and opponent running with the ball?
How do you form a wall to face a free kick?
Yet Arsenal are going back training today and all the talk over the weekend was that the PL would get going fairly soon.
Post by: aev on April 27, 2020, 07:34:08 AM
With the horrific death figures still going on, and the ongoing change to the way we live, it seems pretty fucking rotten of football to be squirming around like a fish on a hook trying to find any way at all to finish the season and avoid giving Sky a load of money back.
It is obscene viewing.
Playing out the season in a hermetically sealed fish bowl would just be the absolute ultimate "fuck you, you don't matter" to the fans. Absolutely fucking obscene.
There are about 1,000 things more important than getting the football season played out right now. It seems totally wrong to be talking about this shit when we have nurses running out of gowns and PPE and fuck knows how many old people dying "off the books".
The entire discourse around relaxing ANY current restrictions is absolutely unbelievable given the death figures we're currently turning in and the way the graph looks.
Shameful.
Agree with you, apart from I don't mind talking about it as i have fk all else to do.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 08:57:34 AM
With the horrific death figures still going on, and the ongoing change to the way we live, it seems pretty fucking rotten of football to be squirming around like a fish on a hook trying to find any way at all to finish the season and avoid giving Sky a load of money back.We're currently in April. Potentially games could be played anytime through to Aug or even Sept and beyond.
It is obscene viewing.
Playing out the season in a hermetically sealed fish bowl would just be the absolute ultimate "fuck you, you don't matter" to the fans. Absolutely fucking obscene.
There are about 1,000 things more important than getting the football season played out right now. It seems totally wrong to be talking about this shit when we have nurses running out of gowns and PPE and fuck knows how many old people dying "off the books".
The entire discourse around relaxing ANY current restrictions is absolutely unbelievable given the death figures we're currently turning in and the way the graph looks.
Shameful.
Why on earth is the football league talking and discussing potential ways forward for their industry at some point in the future shameful? They would be negligent if they weren't looking at all possible ways forward, particulalry when the very future of some clubs may rest upon it. Get a grip.
Post by: mr underhill on April 27, 2020, 09:29:51 AM
Post by: Brassneck on April 27, 2020, 09:42:46 AM
Quote
Well you've claimed that you know a lot more than other people who've questioned youOther than the post I referred to, where are all of these claims?
Quote
You've also thrown around a bunch of allegations about people only wanting to void the season because it suits usThis thread shows 100% in favour of voiding it. The (ahem) BBC poll shows less than 40% in favour. Most other comments I've read from fans are in favour of completing the season if possible. Something, somewhere doesn't add up.
Quote
explain what grounds Leeds and West Brom have a case on that is remotely comparative to what ours would beWhy would it have to be comparable to ours?
Quote
you've failed to explain why it's not the best optionI don't know what the best option is. I would have thought that the fairest option would be to try to complete it rather than just scrapping 75% of the season, even if that meant some sacrifices. I am biased though so I would always argue for voiding it.
Quote
claimed that voiding the season would see legal challenges by leeds and west bromNo I haven't - I pointed out that an argument for voiding because it would negate legal challenges was pointless because you'd still have just as many losers who could also instigate legal challengers.
Quote
Oh and no, the answer isn't in the thread or I wouldn't have askedYes it is - I have stated more than once that I don't think there will be any legal challenges whatever decision is made.
Quote
you giving it the billy big bollocks to OMVF about how much more than him you knowBecause he works in construction. How much do you think he knows about contract law? He even suggested injuncting the PL FFS. Have you any idea how much it would cost a club if the application failed? It would finish them. There is so much misinformation on this thread. That doesn't mean I'm Billy big bollocks because I don't know all of the answers. I know you have the hump over my comment in the Grealish thread - Is it really worth a full blown squabble over an internet post? You have your opinion, I have mine. I shouldn't have to explain it to you every time it is in conflict with yours.
We seem to be going around in circles with this. You clearly don't like what my opinion is so why do you keep following me around insisting that I comment? We also have the boards resident trolls jumping in detracting from the intention of particular threads. Nothing is achieved other than the trolls get their little bit of oxygen.
Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2020, 09:43:17 AM
Heaven forbid they are on free - to-air channels and I have to put up with Jonathan Pearce or Clive fucking Tyldesley.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 09:43:17 AM
Get a grip/ Everyone is entitled to an opinion without being shouted down. He has a point - Wimbledon - cancelled, the Olympics - cancelled, etc. As I have said before, football is doing itself no favours by trying to devise ever more complex and idiotic ways of resuming at a time when hundreds in the UK are still losing their lives and when the ultimate decision to resume is not in their hands.Wimbledon and the Olympics aren't 75% through. I don't see why the PL should rush to a decision that could have a catostrphic impact on some clubs futures when they've potentially still go a few months to see how things unfold.
Next season will almost certainly start behind closed doors. If that is the case, then it's perfectly rasonable to at least explore if this season can be finished on the same basis. It probably can't be, but they have a duty of care to clubs to at least look at it. It's not shameful, it's the least you should expect from the governing body of a huge industry that employs tens of thousands of people.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 09:48:57 AM
I can't wait to go to the match again. We'll when I say go, I mean sit in the living room watching the equivalent of a pre-season friendly training session being played whilst someone like Martin Tyler and Jamie Carragher get all excited.I imagine most fans would prefer this to seeing their clubs go to the wall. But each to their own.
Heaven forbid they are on free - to-air channels and I have to put up with Jonathan Pearce or Clive fucking Tyldesley.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 27, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
QuoteWell you've claimed that you know a lot more than other people who've questioned youOther than the post I referred to, where are all of these claims?QuoteYou've also thrown around a bunch of allegations about people only wanting to void the season because it suits usThis thread shows 100% in favour of voiding it. The (ahem) BBC poll shows less than 40% in favour. Most other comments I've read from fans are in favour of completing the season if possible. Something, somewhere doesn't add up.Quoteexplain what grounds Leeds and West Brom have a case on that is remotely comparative to what ours would beWhy would it have to be comparable to ours?Quoteyou've failed to explain why it's not the best optionI don't know what the best option is. I would have thought that the fairest option would be to try to complete it rather than just scrapping 75% of the season, even if that meant some sacrifices. I am biased though so I would always argue for voiding it.Quoteclaimed that voiding the season would see legal challenges by leeds and west bromNo I haven't - I pointed out that an argument for voiding because it would negate legal challenges was pointless because you'd still have just as many losers who could also instigate legal challengers.QuoteOh and no, the answer isn't in the thread or I wouldn't have askedYes it is - I have stated more than once that I don't think there will be any legal challenges whatever decision is made.Quoteyou giving it the billy big bollocks to OMVF about how much more than him you knowBecause he works in construction. How much do you think he knows about contract law? He even suggested injuncting the PL FFS. Have you any idea how much it would cost a club if the application failed? It would finish them. There is so much misinformation on this thread. That doesn't mean I'm Billy big bollocks because I don't know all of the answers. I know you have the hump over my comment in the Grealish thread - Is it really worth a full blown squabble over an internet post? You have your opinion, I have mine. I shouldn't have to explain it to you every time it is in conflict with yours.
We seem to be going around in circles with this. You clearly don't like what my opinion is so why do you keep following me around insisting that I comment? We also have the boards resident trolls jumping in detracting from the intention of particular threads. Nothing is achieved other than the trolls get their little bit of oxygen.
Stop trying to play the victim and stop insulting anyone who disagrees with you. This is your final warning.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 27, 2020, 10:06:51 AM
Post by: aev on April 27, 2020, 10:19:10 AM
I plan to recreate the match day experience from my living room for the "behind closed doors" TV soccer championship. 8 cans of warm lager to recreate the train journey, I'll then spend 15 mins in a queue outside the living room, ensuring I miss the kick off, get to my armchair and find some fat stranger already sitting there so I'll have to kick him off. I'll pretend that my son is an away supporter so I'll spend the first half giving him "wanker" gestures and pointing out the empty seats on his settee. At half time I'll queue up outside the kitchen while my daughter chucks a nuclear hot pie at me along with a wobbly plastic glass of cooking lager and demands a tenner for the privilege. Then I'll light a cheeky cig in my bathroom, piss all over the floor and smash up the toilet and sink. 10 minutes before the final whistle, I'll switch the telly off and chase the kids around the garden with a Stanley knife. Then I'll pop on a half and half scarf and call David Mellor on 606 for some red hot soccer chat.
When you put it like that....
Post by: JD on April 27, 2020, 10:23:34 AM
I plan to recreate the match day experience from my living room for the "behind closed doors" TV soccer championship. 8 cans of warm lager to recreate the train journey, I'll then spend 15 mins in a queue outside the living room, ensuring I miss the kick off, get to my armchair and find some fat stranger already sitting there so I'll have to kick him off. I'll pretend that my son is an away supporter so I'll spend the first half giving him "wanker" gestures and pointing out the empty seats on his settee. At half time I'll queue up outside the kitchen while my daughter chucks a nuclear hot pie at me along with a wobbly plastic glass of cooking lager and demands a tenner for the privilege. Then I'll light a cheeky cig in my bathroom, piss all over the floor and smash up the toilet and sink. 10 minutes before the final whistle, I'll switch the telly off and chase the kids around the garden with a Stanley knife. Then I'll pop on a half and half scarf and call David Mellor on 606 for some red hot soccer chat.
Brilliant Chico, I can't stop laughing.
Post by: andyh on April 27, 2020, 10:26:18 AM
I plan to recreate the match day experience from my living room for the "behind closed doors" TV soccer championship. 8 cans of warm lager to recreate the train journey, I'll then spend 15 mins in a queue outside the living room, ensuring I miss the kick off, get to my armchair and find some fat stranger already sitting there so I'll have to kick him off. I'll pretend that my son is an away supporter so I'll spend the first half giving him "wanker" gestures and pointing out the empty seats on his settee. At half time I'll queue up outside the kitchen while my daughter chucks a nuclear hot pie at me along with a wobbly plastic glass of cooking lager and demands a tenner for the privilege. Then I'll light a cheeky cig in my bathroom, piss all over the floor and smash up the toilet and sink. 10 minutes before the final whistle, I'll switch the telly off and chase the kids around the garden with a Stanley knife. Then I'll pop on a half and half scarf and call David Mellor on 606 for some red hot soccer chat.Excellent. Well done
Post by: Nev on April 27, 2020, 10:35:56 AM
It's sold as a necessity and despite the various flaws being pointed out and suggestions made that it's a bad idea the authorities will press ahead.
Then all it's flaws will come to the fore and it will classed as a bad idea.
Post by: lennythekad on April 27, 2020, 10:41:40 AM
I plan to recreate the match day experience from my living room for the "behind closed doors" TV soccer championship. 8 cans of warm lager to recreate the train journey, I'll then spend 15 mins in a queue outside the living room, ensuring I miss the kick off, get to my armchair and find some fat stranger already sitting there so I'll have to kick him off. I'll pretend that my son is an away supporter so I'll spend the first half giving him "wanker" gestures and pointing out the empty seats on his settee. At half time I'll queue up outside the kitchen while my daughter chucks a nuclear hot pie at me along with a wobbly plastic glass of cooking lager and demands a tenner for the privilege. Then I'll light a cheeky cig in my bathroom, piss all over the floor and smash up the toilet and sink. 10 minutes before the final whistle, I'll switch the telly off and chase the kids around the garden with a Stanley knife. Then I'll pop on a half and half scarf and call David Mellor on 606 for some red hot soccer chat.
Hilarious that is, Chico 😂😂😂
Post by: Risso on April 27, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2020, 10:52:50 AM
Quoteexplain what grounds Leeds and West Brom have a case on that is remotely comparative to what ours would beWhy would it have to be comparable to ours?
You literally answered this yourself a few lines down.
Quoteclaimed that voiding the season would see legal challenges by leeds and west bromNo I haven't - I pointed out that an argument for voiding because it would negate legal challenges was pointless because you'd still have just as many losers who could also instigate legal challengers.
If the potential cases are much weaker on 1 side of the decision than the other then it's a clear choice to go down that route.
As for no legal cases just look at the dutch league where they've already had them, if you think a Premier league team with 10x as much to lose wouldn't start the process immediately then I think you're insane.
Again though, I don't have the hump with anyone, and this isn't because you have a different opinion, it's because you're insisting that you know why people are talking about voiding the league more than they do.
Oh, and the fact that you and chris are posting shows you're wrong with this as well ...
QuoteYou've also thrown around a bunch of allegations about people only wanting to void the season because it suits usThis thread shows 100% in favour of voiding it. The (ahem) BBC poll shows less than 40% in favour. Most other comments I've read from fans are in favour of completing the season if possible. Something, somewhere doesn't add up.
Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2020, 10:56:55 AM
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 27, 2020, 11:03:46 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 11:08:51 AM
But as you dragged my name back in, I think you'll find both me and Brassneck are in favour of voiding it if that's what you're getting at? So there's your 100%.
We're just realistic enough to accept that our opinion is driven by what is best for the Villa, not some faux concern about integrity etc.
Post by: David_Nab on April 27, 2020, 11:12:51 AM
Mount whips in the corner ( from the newly sanitised ball handed over by the glove/mask wearing ball boy ) Giroud heads in and it's heartbreak for Villa.Hold on replays show Giroud use's his hand VAR would rule this out , however no VAR as league choose not to use it due to social distancing guidelines
2 points dropped.
In the end is doesn't matter Villa stay up on GD , mostly from the 5 goal's they put past Liverpool at Anfield after Liverpool played their kids ( PL relaxed squad rules )
Sporting integrity though ..
Post by: aev on April 27, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Paul - you're like a dog with a bone.
But as you dragged my name back in, I think you'll find both me and Brassneck are in favour of voiding it if that's what you're getting at? So there's your 100%.
We're just realistic enough to accept that our opinion is driven by what is best for the Villa, not some faux concern about integrity etc.
Why is concern about the integrity of the league "faux"?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 11:21:26 AM
We've been over this.Paul - you're like a dog with a bone.
But as you dragged my name back in, I think you'll find both me and Brassneck are in favour of voiding it if that's what you're getting at? So there's your 100%.
We're just realistic enough to accept that our opinion is driven by what is best for the Villa, not some faux concern about integrity etc.
Why is concern about the integrity of the league "faux"?
Post by: aev on April 27, 2020, 11:28:30 AM
We've been over this.Paul - you're like a dog with a bone.
But as you dragged my name back in, I think you'll find both me and Brassneck are in favour of voiding it if that's what you're getting at? So there's your 100%.
We're just realistic enough to accept that our opinion is driven by what is best for the Villa, not some faux concern about integrity etc.
Why is concern about the integrity of the league "faux"?
Are you saying the integrity argument is false, or I am using this argument in a "faux" way?
Apologies if this was answered previously?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 11:39:10 AM
We've been over this.Paul - you're like a dog with a bone.
But as you dragged my name back in, I think you'll find both me and Brassneck are in favour of voiding it if that's what you're getting at? So there's your 100%.
We're just realistic enough to accept that our opinion is driven by what is best for the Villa, not some faux concern about integrity etc.
Why is concern about the integrity of the league "faux"?
Are you saying the integrity argument is false, or I am using this argument in a "faux" way?
Apologies if this was answered previously?
It has been discussed previously, but in summary we seem to have a very high proportion of fans concerned about integrity, the PL being greedy etc etc compared to other clubs forums where, as you may expect, many seem far more keen for the season to be finished. The conclusion is more people on here are driven primarily by Villas plight than are prepared to admit it.
Chuck in a bit of virtue signalling and suddenly we're the most reasonable caring fan base in the league and it's absolutely nothing to do with the fact that voiding the season is most likley to save us from relegation.
This is my opinion and I've repeated because I've been asked to. It's not an invitation for another huge, tedious, condecending mansplaining rebuttal from Paul, so please do resist if you possibly can.
Post by: David_Nab on April 27, 2020, 11:39:59 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/27/bundesliga-clubs-debate-whether-relegation-should-scrapped-even/
Post by: Brassneck on April 27, 2020, 11:42:31 AM
Who's going to give you the perfunctory patting down on your way in?
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Another good argument for screening games - You miss that trio:
Percy whose face looks like it will crack if it ever breaks out into a smile, Mac, whatever happened to him? I miss his affront to fashion and then Dave "holier than thou" Woodhall, fresh last Friday nights/Saturday morning drunken ramblings. How he ever has the nerve to accuse someone of being "morally superior" is beyond me. Never has such a non-entity of an oxygen thief had such an over inflated opinion of himself.
He's going to ban me for playing the victim you know? Dave "please let me keep supplying you with drinks General" Woodhall? ;D who sold out his subscribers the minute Mark Ansell gave him an interview.
Life without H&V - How will I cope?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 11:51:19 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on April 27, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
Who's going to give you the perfunctory patting down on your way in?
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Another good argument for screening games - You miss that trio:
Percy whose face looks like it will crack if it ever breaks out into a smile, Mac, whatever happened to him? I miss his affront to fashion and then Dave "holier than thou" Woodhall, fresh last Friday nights/Saturday morning drunken ramblings. How he ever has the nerve to accuse someone of being "morally superior" is beyond me. Never has such a non-entity of an oxygen thief had such an over inflated opinion of himself.
He's going to ban me for playing the victim you know? Dave "please let me keep supplying you with drinks General" Woodhall? ;D who sold out his subscribers the minute Mark Ansell gave him an interview.
Life without H&V - How will I cope?
Rampant masturbation?
Post by: aev on April 27, 2020, 11:51:50 AM
We've been over this.Paul - you're like a dog with a bone.
But as you dragged my name back in, I think you'll find both me and Brassneck are in favour of voiding it if that's what you're getting at? So there's your 100%.
We're just realistic enough to accept that our opinion is driven by what is best for the Villa, not some faux concern about integrity etc.
Why is concern about the integrity of the league "faux"?
Are you saying the integrity argument is false, or I am using this argument in a "faux" way?
Apologies if this was answered previously?
It has been discussed previously, but in summary we seem to have a very high proportion of fans concerned about integrity, the PL being greedy etc etc compared to other clubs forums where, as you may expect, many seem far more keen for the season to be finished. The conclusion is more people on here are driven primarily by Villas plight than are prepared to admit it.
Chuck in a bit of virtue signalling and suddenly we're the most reasonable caring fan base in the league and it's absolutely nothing to do with the fact that voiding the season is most likley to save us from relegation.
This is my opinion and I've repeated because I've been asked to. It's not an invitation for another huge, tedious, condecending mansplaining rebuttal from Paul, so please do resist if you possibly can.
So in answer to the question, a bit of both ?
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 27, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
Who's going to give you the perfunctory patting down on your way in?
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Another good argument for screening games - You miss that trio:
Percy whose face looks like it will crack if it ever breaks out into a smile, Mac, whatever happened to him? I miss his affront to fashion and then Dave "holier than thou" Woodhall, fresh last Friday nights/Saturday morning drunken ramblings. How he ever has the nerve to accuse someone of being "morally superior" is beyond me. Never has such a non-entity of an oxygen thief had such an over inflated opinion of himself.
He's going to ban me for playing the victim you know? Dave "please let me keep supplying you with drinks General" Woodhall? ;D who sold out his subscribers the minute Mark Ansell gave him an interview.
Life without H&V - How will I cope?
You appear to have crossed the line from tedious bore to offensive prick. Well done, you.
Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2020, 12:08:35 PM
I do like that your claiming to be in favour of voiding the league, to suit your argument, but have spent weeks bitching at everyone who thinks that's the best course of action.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 12:17:51 PM
Post by: Small Rodent on April 27, 2020, 12:19:44 PM
Post by: aev on April 27, 2020, 12:20:10 PM
You'll find I've been 100% consistent that I want the league voided. I'm just honest enough to admit why and I don't necessarily think it would be the fairest outcome.
But because you think this way, you are unwilling to accept others may hold the same view for different reasons?
And by extension, dishonest?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 12:29:31 PM
No I'm willing to accept some do. But I don't accept the general difference between the sentiments of our fans and other clubs fans who seem far less virtuous on the matter is co-incidence. As I've said before, the rage against the callousness of the PL trying to find a way to finish the season seems to be directly proprtional to how much the said finishing of the season stuffs up your club.You'll find I've been 100% consistent that I want the league voided. I'm just honest enough to admit why and I don't necessarily think it would be the fairest outcome.
But because you think this way, you are unwilling to accept others may hold the same view for different reasons?
Post by: LeeB on April 27, 2020, 12:34:51 PM
Who's going to give you the perfunctory patting down on your way in?
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Another good argument for screening games - You miss that trio:
Percy whose face looks like it will crack if it ever breaks out into a smile, Mac, whatever happened to him? I miss his affront to fashion and then Dave "holier than thou" Woodhall, fresh last Friday nights/Saturday morning drunken ramblings. How he ever has the nerve to accuse someone of being "morally superior" is beyond me. Never has such a non-entity of an oxygen thief had such an over inflated opinion of himself.
He's going to ban me for playing the victim you know? Dave "please let me keep supplying you with drinks General" Woodhall? ;D who sold out his subscribers the minute Mark Ansell gave him an interview.
Life without H&V - How will I cope?
And there it is. You will be sorely missed by those of us that need to be told how we think.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
Post by: mr underhill on April 27, 2020, 12:38:25 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2020, 12:43:12 PM
Personally I've been consistent with - "if they can't play the league out in as close to normal conditions as possible by June 30th then void it and work on the arrangements for 20/21 instead" - my arguments have been covered many times and having you ignore it all and just say "be honest you just don't want us to go down" is a shitty attitude.
Post by: aev on April 27, 2020, 12:46:00 PM
No I'm willing to accept some do. But I don't accept the general difference between the sentiments of our fans and other clubs fans who seem far less virtuous on the matter is co-incidence. As I've said before, the rage against the callousness of the PL trying to find a way to finish the season seems to be directly proprtional to how much the said finishing of the season stuffs up your club.You'll find I've been 100% consistent that I want the league voided. I'm just honest enough to admit why and I don't necessarily think it would be the fairest outcome.
But because you think this way, you are unwilling to accept others may hold the same view for different reasons?
I cant comment about other club's forums - friends that support other clubs are generally ambivalent but the sample size is so tiny it isn't really that relevant.
The Bundesliga are supposedly looking at playing out the season with no relegation, what is the purpose of that if it isn't about money? I can't imagine that people would be happy with that either (with our higher fatalities) just because people have finished Netflix and are a bit bored at home.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 27, 2020, 12:54:41 PM
Heaven forbid they are on free - to-air channels and I have to put up with Jonathan Pearce or Clive fucking Tyldesley.
Yeah, i think Pearce is the most annoying commentator of all time. Motson got to be as annoying in his later years but at least he was decent back in the 80's and early 90's.
I generally turn the sound off when that ****** Pearce is on, cannot stand him.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 12:57:19 PM
I hope this clears up my point of view on the matter.
UTV.
Post by: Richard E on April 27, 2020, 01:11:23 PM
Post by: mr underhill on April 27, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2020, 01:20:44 PM
Paul - I got involved in the discussion because of the sheer volume of posts about how the PL was only interested in money, wanted to put lives at risk etc, etc. I was trying to present the counterpoint that there are very good reasons why the PL needs to explore ways of finishing the season because however flawed it may be, it would probably be the fairest of the outcomes (in my opinion and not a point I want to debate further). It became clear that we have a really high proportion of people with big safety concerns about closed doors friendly's etc. I looked at a few other clubs forums and there was surprisingly few with such concerns. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to draw a correlation. That doesn't mean I can't accept some people may hold a view for entirely alturistic reasons, I'm just sceptical about the volume on H&V.
I hope this clears up my point of view on the matter.
UTV.
No it doesn't, I don't particularly care what other forums are saying, the question is are there legitimate problems with health and safety of trying to restart games too early? If you agree there are then you're just being arsey to make a point. Arguing about why people are focusing on those very real problems is pointless and is little more than, to use your phrase, virtue signalling on your part, as an attempt at showing how self-aware you are compared to everyone.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2020, 01:31:57 PM
PaulPaul - I got involved in the discussion because of the sheer volume of posts about how the PL was only interested in money, wanted to put lives at risk etc, etc. I was trying to present the counterpoint that there are very good reasons why the PL needs to explore ways of finishing the season because however flawed it may be, it would probably be the fairest of the outcomes (in my opinion and not a point I want to debate further). It became clear that we have a really high proportion of people with big safety concerns about closed doors friendly's etc. I looked at a few other clubs forums and there was surprisingly few with such concerns. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to draw a correlation. That doesn't mean I can't accept some people may hold a view for entirely alturistic reasons, I'm just sceptical about the volume on H&V.
I hope this clears up my point of view on the matter.
UTV.
No it doesn't, I don't particularly care what other forums are saying, the question is are there legitimate problems with health and safety of trying to restart games too early? If you agree there are then you're just being arsey to make a point. Arguing about why people are focusing on those very real problems is pointless and is little more than, to use your phrase, virtue signalling on your part, as an attempt at showing how self-aware you are compared to everyone.
I feel I have been clear and have said all I want to say. I don't want to discuss this with you anymore. Please go away.
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2020, 01:36:15 PM
Who's going to give you the perfunctory patting down on your way in?
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Another good argument for screening games - You miss that trio:
Percy whose face looks like it will crack if it ever breaks out into a smile, Mac, whatever happened to him? I miss his affront to fashion and then Dave "holier than thou" Woodhall, fresh last Friday nights/Saturday morning drunken ramblings. How he ever has the nerve to accuse someone of being "morally superior" is beyond me. Never has such a non-entity of an oxygen thief had such an over inflated opinion of himself.
He's going to ban me for playing the victim you know? Dave "please let me keep supplying you with drinks General" Woodhall? ;D who sold out his subscribers the minute Mark Ansell gave him an interview.
Life without H&V - How will I cope?
Rampant masturbation?
Boning up on contract law.
Post by: Fred Crump on April 27, 2020, 01:44:45 PM
Heaven forbid they are on free - to-air channels and I have to put up with Jonathan Pearce or Clive fucking Tyldesley.
Yeah, i think Pearce is the most annoying commentator of all time. Motson got to be as annoying in his later years but at least he was decent back in the 80's and early 90's.
I generally turn the sound off when that c*** Pearce is on, cannot stand him.
Pearce was quite good on robot wars. He should have stuck to that.
Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2020, 01:57:57 PM
Heaven forbid they are on free - to-air channels and I have to put up with Jonathan Pearce or Clive fucking Tyldesley.
Yeah, i think Pearce is the most annoying commentator of all time. Motson got to be as annoying in his later years but at least he was decent back in the 80's and early 90's.
I generally turn the sound off when that c*** Pearce is on, cannot stand him.
Pearce was quite good on robot wars. He should have stuck to that.
Indeed. I never watched it.
Post by: john e on April 27, 2020, 02:05:27 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 27, 2020, 02:25:43 PM
Post by: Richard E on April 27, 2020, 02:36:02 PM
Who's going to give you the perfunctory patting down on your way in?
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Another good argument for screening games - You miss that trio:
Percy whose face looks like it will crack if it ever breaks out into a smile, Mac, whatever happened to him? I miss his affront to fashion and then Dave "holier than thou" Woodhall, fresh last Friday nights/Saturday morning drunken ramblings. How he ever has the nerve to accuse someone of being "morally superior" is beyond me. Never has such a non-entity of an oxygen thief had such an over inflated opinion of himself.
He's going to ban me for playing the victim you know? Dave "please let me keep supplying you with drinks General" Woodhall? ;D who sold out his subscribers the minute Mark Ansell gave him an interview.
Life without H&V - How will I cope?
Rampant masturbation?
Boning up on contract law.
You say that like its a bad thing.
Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2020, 02:43:07 PM
Who's going to give you the perfunctory patting down on your way in?
Which route will you take? Will you pass Percy by the garden, Mac by the kitchen and Dave next to your son's bedroom door shouting at you as you pass them?
Another good argument for screening games - You miss that trio:
Percy whose face looks like it will crack if it ever breaks out into a smile, Mac, whatever happened to him? I miss his affront to fashion and then Dave "holier than thou" Woodhall, fresh last Friday nights/Saturday morning drunken ramblings. How he ever has the nerve to accuse someone of being "morally superior" is beyond me. Never has such a non-entity of an oxygen thief had such an over inflated opinion of himself.
He's going to ban me for playing the victim you know? Dave "please let me keep supplying you with drinks General" Woodhall? ;D who sold out his subscribers the minute Mark Ansell gave him an interview.
Life without H&V - How will I cope?
Rampant masturbation?
Boning up on contract law.
You say that like its a bad thing.
Now I know why they say it's hard studying law.
Post by: LeeB on April 27, 2020, 02:57:37 PM
I'm saving up my one, when I went to say hello and he sold me two fanzines I already had, for a real good one though. I'm not going to waste it on a theoretical discussion about the aftermath of a pandemic, like the last bozo did.
Post by: brian green on April 27, 2020, 03:45:49 PM
Post by: rougegorge on April 27, 2020, 03:58:27 PM
My daughter lives not far from the Emirates and is expecting her first child, and would have jumped at the chance of using such a facility. She said the trips to the UCLH near Euston have been stressful and some Londoners seem more oblivious to the idea of distancing.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 27, 2020, 04:07:18 PM
On another note, and apologies if it's been mentioned already, but well done to the club for setting up maternity clinics at the ground from today.
My daughter lives not far from the Emirates and is expecting her first child, and would have jumped at the chance of using such a facility. She said the trips to the UCLH near Euston have been stressful and some Londoners seem more oblivious to the idea of distancing.
You can see that from the pictures at Westminster Bridge the last couple of Thursdays. Yes, the hospital that saved Saint Bozza is there, and Big Ben (Although isn't that still broken?), but it definitely is not near to a lot of peoples houses so they are deliberately travelling there for it.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 27, 2020, 04:25:06 PM
Whenever one of these types has their final big flounce, they've always got some long pent up beef with Dave W, haven't they?
I'm saving up my one, when I went to say hello and he sold me two fanzines I already had, for a real good one though. I'm not going to waste it on a theoretical discussion about the aftermath of a pandemic, like the last bozo did.
It does seem strange that the longer they spend on here, the bigger the rant they have to launch about me.
Post by: Risso on April 27, 2020, 05:04:46 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on April 27, 2020, 05:23:51 PM
Post by: john e on April 27, 2020, 06:00:34 PM
Post by: brian green on April 27, 2020, 07:12:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 27, 2020, 07:51:14 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 27, 2020, 08:34:39 PM
Oh go on, pretty please. I am genuinely interested Brassneck.
OK but only if you tell us why you think Jack would still be at the club if we go down.
Wrong thread.
Post by: Risso on April 27, 2020, 08:39:48 PM
In fairness after the Arsenal final if I had not been distracted by DW I fully intended to throw myself under the next train.
You'd have had no chance with the thousands of Arsenal fans queuing up to get into the station, seconds after the final whistle.
Post by: The Edge on April 27, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
Saint Bozza!!! That really tickled me.On another note, and apologies if it's been mentioned already, but well done to the club for setting up maternity clinics at the ground from today.
My daughter lives not far from the Emirates and is expecting her first child, and would have jumped at the chance of using such a facility. She said the trips to the UCLH near Euston have been stressful and some Londoners seem more oblivious to the idea of distancing.
You can see that from the pictures at Westminster Bridge the last couple of Thursdays. Yes, the hospital that saved Saint Bozza is there, and Big Ben (Although isn't that still broken?), but it definitely is not near to a lot of peoples houses so they are deliberately travelling there for it.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 27, 2020, 08:49:24 PM
PaulPaul - I got involved in the discussion because of the sheer volume of posts about how the PL was only interested in money, wanted to put lives at risk etc, etc. I was trying to present the counterpoint that there are very good reasons why the PL needs to explore ways of finishing the season because however flawed it may be, it would probably be the fairest of the outcomes (in my opinion and not a point I want to debate further). It became clear that we have a really high proportion of people with big safety concerns about closed doors friendly's etc. I looked at a few other clubs forums and there was surprisingly few with such concerns. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to draw a correlation. That doesn't mean I can't accept some people may hold a view for entirely alturistic reasons, I'm just sceptical about the volume on H&V.
I hope this clears up my point of view on the matter.
UTV.
No it doesn't, I don't particularly care what other forums are saying, the question is are there legitimate problems with health and safety of trying to restart games too early? If you agree there are then you're just being arsey to make a point. Arguing about why people are focusing on those very real problems is pointless and is little more than, to use your phrase, virtue signalling on your part, as an attempt at showing how self-aware you are compared to everyone.
I feel I have been clear and have said all I want to say. I don't want to discuss this with you anymore. Please go away.
Oh come on, this is the best soap ever, you can't just leave it dangling like that.
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 27, 2020, 09:29:14 PM
I enjoy football, more specifically Villa (at least notionally!), but my view at the moment is bollocks to football. It’s distasteful to consider its return whilst we’re in the grips of this pandemic. Relegation, champions, European places, who cares, it’s utterly meaningless at the moment.
My thoughts exactly, don't get me wrong, if the season is cancelled and as such means Villa survive, then advantage willingly taken as far as I'm concerned, that is not the overriding objective or aim, the very notion of sport is in part entertainment and enjoyment, how can anybody possibly consider continuing with any sport when people are dying in such a lonely and painful way and every likelihood of a second wave and now a real concern for kids that they could be in danger with a possible as yet not proven new development with this virus.
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on April 27, 2020, 09:34:34 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/27/premier-league-to-meet-as-government-backs-return-as-soon-as-possible
Post by: David_Nab on April 27, 2020, 09:43:03 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 27, 2020, 09:44:55 PM
Clubs will meet on Friday to plan for 9 June return - according to the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/27/premier-league-to-meet-as-government-backs-return-as-soon-as-possible
Football will gorge on itself.
Post by: Steve67 on April 27, 2020, 09:52:39 PM
Paul - you're like a dog with a bone.
But as you dragged my name back in, I think you'll find both me and Brassneck are in favour of voiding it if that's what you're getting at? So there's your 100%.
We're just realistic enough to accept that our opinion is driven by what is best for the Villa, not some faux concern about integrity etc.
So you are calling people liars? Tottenham back in training today with a player training on his own on a pitch. Is that football? I also want the season voided, because this suits Villa, either that, or we play ourself out of the shit position we find ourselves in, but, for me personally, this isn't right, it is synthetic. It is also absolutely about the integrity of the game. How can you play football, or simply train properly if they have to socially distance?
Post by: Legion on April 27, 2020, 09:54:03 PM
Post by: LukeJames on April 27, 2020, 09:54:23 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 27, 2020, 09:55:58 PM
Clubs will meet on Friday to plan for 9 June return - according to the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/27/premier-league-to-meet-as-government-backs-return-as-soon-as-possible
Yes I’m biased given our situation but this is boiling my piss now. Without supporters is crap, just to keep ‘integrity’ and finish the season. Well last time I checked your meant to play one game away and one at home. Home now does not exist.
Furthermore; so so many questions on health of the players and also contracts.
What if one of ours gets symptoms? Who gets isolated? Are we meant to play on using kids? So teams could have a massive impact not having their best players all for the sake of keeping ‘integrity’ of the game!?
Then we have contracts. Steer not fit, Reina contract ends 30/6. I know we have Nyland but what if we didn’t !? Same 25 man squads are expected to carry on with zero regard to contracts enforcing losses.
Surely even Liverpool fans aren’t feeling winning the league without them being their. No trophy parade, no party’s etc. Then the new season will kick off before they are even allowed to get together yet. Absolutely sterile. The game is nothing without us. If I can’t play Sunday league and attend games then all this can absolutely do one. They are so out of touch. Gap between league and supporters wider than ever.
Post by: Steve67 on April 27, 2020, 10:14:27 PM
You can't. It's impossible.
Is the correct answer.
I appreciate that it is difficult to look in to the future, but we will still have the virus with us in June, according to experts, So, those talking about disingenuous H and V'ers of only wanting a season voiding because it suits Villa, you need to recognise that this is just a by-product. The simple question is, is it safe to come back and play football, even in June? If the answer is no, what exactly is this about? Is it about football, money, integrity, not caring about the safety of the players? What is it? By insisting that players train now, in readiness for Operation Start-up, clubs are colluding with the FA and knowingly placing footballers above the general public and potentially at risk. Asking more of the police and medical staff, what, just for entertainment? It absolutely lacks integrity.
Post by: Des Little on April 27, 2020, 10:19:42 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 27, 2020, 11:26:57 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on April 27, 2020, 11:46:27 PM
The game is nothing without fans, just a kick-about on a nice bit of grass.
Money, money, money.
Post by: TonyD on April 28, 2020, 12:31:31 AM
But the reality would be risky, shit and unnecessary.
Post by: OzVilla on April 28, 2020, 12:49:11 AM
Furthermore, what if some divisions get concluded (say the Championship) and some don’t (say the PL)?
Post by: old man villa fan on April 28, 2020, 01:17:39 AM
Quoteyou giving it the billy big bollocks to OMVF about how much more than him you knowBecause he works in construction. How much do you think he knows about contract law? He even suggested injuncting the PL FFS. Have you any idea how much it would cost a club if the application failed?
If you haven't been banned due to your condescending attitude and obnoxious behaviour, I thought I would enlighten you to the fact that some in my industry know a considerable amount about contract law. Do you think construction is carried out without contracts. I have been involved in two major international civil court cases involving wrongful termination of contract, preparing witness statements for giving testimony in both cases. In one of those, we successfully obtained an injunction to prevent a developer client claiming our on demand performance bond and advance payment bond, something that is extremely difficult to do. I have been involved in a bankruptcy case against the same client. I have also been involved in an international construction arbitration. So yes, I do know something about contract law in relation to construction, the basic principles of which are the same as for other contracts.
Post by: olaftab on April 28, 2020, 05:33:21 AM
Germany discussing no relegationWell if clubs know prior to restart that there is no relegation than there is no competitive integrity.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/27/bundesliga-clubs-debate-whether-relegation-should-scrapped-even/
Post by: CT on April 28, 2020, 06:53:58 AM
What a breath of fresh air!
Basically, said he felt very uneasy even talking about starting football with so many dying every day and the stress the NHS is under. Of couse he wanted to get going, but only when the government said it was completely safe to do so.
Post by: ROBBO on April 28, 2020, 07:50:25 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 28, 2020, 08:07:08 AM
Genuine question. What happens if someone tests positive considering the whole league got shut down when the Arsenal manager and a Chelsea squad player tested positive on the same day, will the same rules apply it is this simply a plough on regardless scenario?
Furthermore, what if some divisions get concluded (say the Championship) and some don’t (say the PL)?
An inference from the German restart plan is that they'll plough on regardless, as everybody involved is in a collective isolation from society.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 28, 2020, 08:16:35 AM
Amongst the insanity of four clubs returning to training (which I assume is an essential job?), I heard a guy called Scott Duxbury this morning, the CEO at Watford.
What a breath of fresh air!
Basically, said he felt very uneasy even talking about starting football with so many dying every day and the stress the NHS is under. Of couse he wanted to get going, but only when the government said it was completely safe to do so.
That's not necessary to work in the UK lockdown.
Post by: cdward on April 28, 2020, 08:18:52 AM
Why would you give your competitors an advantage by agreeing to unequal playing terms, when there is so much money at stake?
Post by: aev on April 28, 2020, 08:26:11 AM
When asked about how this would work with social distancing, he suggested this could be done in the dressing room, but that it presented challenges during the game...
I wonder what advice the PFA will provide in all of this?
Post by: walsall villain on April 28, 2020, 08:51:58 AM
In our case we have limited options off the bench, nothing like the quality the top teams can call on. So playing these fixtures in a shortened time frame, possibly allowing up to 5 substitutions, would be very challenging for us. I still can’t see how playing at a neutral ground and losing the possible benefit of our extra home games is fair either. I can’t see any of the relegation threatened teams going along with this. So that could be 6 no votes, wouldn’t it only need another no vote to vote down proposals?
Post by: mr underhill on April 28, 2020, 08:55:21 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 28, 2020, 08:58:06 AM
What about the PL? Why haven't they done someth£ng s£m£lar to protect the£r event over the last 17 years?
Imo they should accept their losses (like they accepted the decision to avoid paying pandemic insurance premiums), void this season and instead start to plan next season and following seasons better with contingency plans in place in case of emergencies.
This may mean a reprieve for Norwich and any 2 from Watford, West Ham and Bournemouth (I think we would have just done enough at the time, under normal circumstances, to have escaped relegation), but voiding is the right thing to do when there have been so many deaths to date due to covid-19 and sadly more yet to come.
Post by: mallo on April 28, 2020, 09:13:08 AM
Post by: The Edge on April 28, 2020, 09:24:33 AM
surely, if social distancing measures are still in place come early June - the time mooted for a return of football - you simply can't play?I agree it's as simple as that really. For me there are 2 options. Finish the season only when social distancing has been lifted. No empty stadiums and no restrictions on players. Or scrap this season and hope for the next season to go ahead normally ASAP.
Post by: andyh on April 28, 2020, 09:26:27 AM
I mean, it’s not like people will congregate at each other houses to watch is it?
Or better still, lock ins down the local or at private clubs.
Post by: aev on April 28, 2020, 09:34:07 AM
The government obviously believes that social distancing rules will be relaxed by June, surely?
I mean, it’s not like people will congregate at each other houses to watch is it?
Or better still, lock ins down the local or at private clubs.
I think there will be some relaxation, perhaps friends and family but at the same time i cant imagine they will lift the 2m rule.
If this is still in place, it really does seem as though they are making a special case for certain sports, which as mallo says above pretty unfair on lots of other businesses that may not get the special dispensation to resume.
Post by: DrGonzo on April 28, 2020, 09:41:35 AM
Post by: OzVilla on April 28, 2020, 10:00:34 AM
Post by: Nev on April 28, 2020, 10:36:43 AM
If it's not free to air then you have the issues raised above, a tacit encouragement for people to gather to watch the games, football is a community activity anyway so to steer people away from this is going to be difficult. And if you're a struggling landlord how about drawing the curtains, opening the back door and making yourself some easy money while you show the match?
If it is free to air then that will impact on the revenue of the broadcasters, is this where the government offer compensation and is this a justifiable use of funds?
Football is still deep in the maze, and there remains, at the moment, just one route out.
Post by: Towser on April 28, 2020, 10:46:28 AM
Quote
Premier League clubs have been made aware of a debate within the German Bundesliga over whether or not relegation should be scrapped even if the season restarts and is played to a finish.
Telegraph Sport understands that some managers of top-flight German teams are debating with their clubs whether or not to argue that there should be no relegation at the end of this season because the sporting integrity has already been lost.
Post by: peckvillajunior on April 28, 2020, 10:49:43 AM
We could end up in a daft situation where a football match can't take place but two people can sit 3 metres apart on an aeroplane for 10 hours!
Post by: john2710 on April 28, 2020, 10:59:39 AM
I have no doubt that Football, behind closed doors, will be back by early / mid June & that it'll be absolutely shite.
The Govt couldn't care less about a few rich footballers. They'll use football to spin some positivity. Cue another Tory 3 word slogan - "Football's coming back".
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 28, 2020, 11:02:24 AM
I had a conversation with a colleague about the TV coverage if the games are behind closed doors yesterday.
If it's not free to air then you have the issues raised above, a tacit encouragement for people to gather to watch the games, football is a community activity anyway so to steer people away from this is going to be difficult. And if you're a struggling landlord how about drawing the curtains, opening the back door and making yourself some easy money while you show the match?
If it is free to air then that will impact on the revenue of the broadcasters, is this where the government offer compensation and is this a justifiable use of funds?
Football is still deep in the maze, and there remains, at the moment, just one route out.
You would guess that games not currently covered by Sky or BT could be made free to air on BBC and ITV for example, and the pay subscriptions will keep their exclusive games. That is just my guess though. Whether or not it results in people breaking rules and getting together particularly if some games are still on sky is debateable. I think it may do, but then again i also think that as people get more bored with the whole situation as time goes on and the weather continues to improve they may do for other things anyway. I would be surprised if people gathered outside games knowing that they can't go in, i can't get my head around why anyone would but i suppose you never cease to be amazed or dumbfounded by peoples behaviour.
Post by: sid1964 on April 28, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
If people are stupid enough to want to drive to snowdownia and then go for a walk then nothing would surprise me.
Post by: Drummond on April 28, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
I had a conversation with a colleague about the TV coverage if the games are behind closed doors yesterday.
If it's not free to air then you have the issues raised above, a tacit encouragement for people to gather to watch the games, football is a community activity anyway so to steer people away from this is going to be difficult. And if you're a struggling landlord how about drawing the curtains, opening the back door and making yourself some easy money while you show the match?
If it is free to air then that will impact on the revenue of the broadcasters, is this where the government offer compensation and is this a justifiable use of funds?
Football is still deep in the maze, and there remains, at the moment, just one route out.
Stop it, all your virtue-signalling bollocks Nev. Of course people can be trusted, and the show must go on. Where there's a will, there's a way, fuck everyone else.
Post by: The Edge on April 28, 2020, 11:28:52 AM
If it restarts I, for one, will refuse to go to the matches.Ever?
Post by: in exile on April 28, 2020, 11:31:11 AM
If it restarts I, for one, will refuse to go to the matches.I don't blame you
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 28, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
Can't see how it can be a solution - Teams we've faced away and lost to had the advantage of home crowd... When we face them in the return, WE should have that same advantage. The opposition are the team gaining a second advantage by playing behind closed doors.
You could argue that every team is in the same boat, but the difference is that some teams will be facing more formidable opponents without the support of their home fans to cheer them on, whilst teams in and around Villa's WERE able to take points off those same teams with the added advantage of home crowd.
I say just put a stop on it all till the end of this year, then play out the last 9/10 games at the beginning of 2021, thus taking 2 seasons to complete 1 season. Would take us nicely into Euro 2021 then.
It's the money side of things that stinks - It's purely the tv contracts that are pushing things to get moving again, and the fact that finances are so top heavy in British football, the smaller clubs will implode if it goes on for much longer.
Balls to it. It's not football any more - More important things in life.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 28, 2020, 12:03:26 PM
The social distancing angle is a bit of a red herring I think. The 2 metre rule is a very crude rule of thumb when transmission of disease also depends on the time spent in proximity and whether the area is open/enclosed.
We could end up in a daft situation where a football match can't take place but two people can sit 3 metres apart on an aeroplane for 10 hours!
However there is evidence of sweating, heavy breathing / shouting can create more potentially infectious droplets in areas larger then 2 meters.
Post by: peckvillajunior on April 28, 2020, 12:18:19 PM
I'm probably just biased as I want to be able to play amateur football next season! Far less fussed about premier league in all honesty
Post by: LeeB on April 28, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
Oh it's not risk-free by any means, I just think if there's a priority list of risks football is being placed lower down than it should be.
I'm probably just biased as I want to be able to play amateur football next season! Far less fussed about premier league in all honesty
If I was still playing that would bother me far more than the Villa. It used to ruin my week if the game got called off.
Post by: peckvillajunior on April 28, 2020, 12:25:21 PM
Post by: Risso on April 28, 2020, 12:36:01 PM
Oh it's not risk-free by any means, I just think if there's a priority list of risks football is being placed lower down than it should be.
I'm probably just biased as I want to be able to play amateur football next season! Far less fussed about premier league in all honesty
If I was still playing that would bother me far more than the Villa. It used to ruin my week if the game got called off.
I really miss Tuesday night 6 aside. I'd pick that in a choice between watching Villa and playing that again.
Post by: DrGonzo on April 28, 2020, 01:09:52 PM
If it restarts I, for one, will refuse to go to the matches.Ever?
Quite possibly. I'm tired of all the tawdry BS that surrounds modern football. The money grabbing and greed from all sides at the pinnacle of the sport is no longer justifiable. It hasn't been for a long time in all honesty, I've stick with it until now out of a misguided sense of loyalty. I think the actions of everybody protecting their meal tickets and making sure their piece of the pie is in no way going to be diminished has become too perverse for me to coninue to support.
Post by: garyellis on April 28, 2020, 01:51:09 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52456304
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 28, 2020, 01:56:44 PM
There is never going to be a perfect scenario until a cure is created and mass distributed. But corporations, governments, employers, society won’t wait that long. We can’t exist forever this way and at some point over weeks and months everything will return just looking different to what it once was. The question is when? And it will differ sometimes greatly across all of the things we all once did or were accustomed to seeing or doing.
As for this season; Simon Jordan who often offers excellent perspective said this. For me he’s right on the money.
https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1255113965811761152?s=21
Post by: aev on April 28, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
Post by: Towser on April 28, 2020, 02:15:48 PM
Quote
The Ligue 1 & Ligue 2 seasons in France have been ENDED.
There is a possible return for the new 2020/21 season in August.
Post by: DB on April 28, 2020, 02:19:55 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 28, 2020, 02:21:23 PM
Post by: devilla on April 28, 2020, 02:32:19 PM
Fair play to the French for taking the sensible decision to end the season.
Post by: Nev on April 28, 2020, 02:34:36 PM
Post by: mallo on April 28, 2020, 02:59:22 PM
Post by: CT on April 28, 2020, 03:10:04 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 28, 2020, 03:11:03 PM
So over 500 people have died from Coronavirus in England over the last 24 hours. On what level of reality can it be considered reasonable to think of re-starting football? It beggars belief.The death toll is tragic. But they are not talking about it restarting now, they are talking about possibly June or maybe even Juiy or August. Is it really that wrong to keep their options open when some clubs may be struggling to keep afloat?
Fair play to the French for taking the sensible decision to end the season.
Post by: mr underhill on April 28, 2020, 03:17:47 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 28, 2020, 03:19:37 PM
UEFA has set a limit of 25th May to state whether each country will or won't finish their respective leagues. It's a good while away, but if the Premier League state after Fridays meeting that they will finish the season, then they're in all sorts of grey areas - they just can't know whats going to happen.Do you think this has to be a definitive position? How can UEFA hold them to it if a country states an intention to finish the season but ultimately circumstances make it impossible?
Post by: Small Rodent on April 28, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
So over 500 people have died from Coronavirus in England over the last 24 hours. On what level of reality can it be considered reasonable to think of re-starting football? It beggars belief.The death toll is tragic. But they are not talking about it restarting now, they are talking about possibly June or maybe even Juiy or August. Is it really that wrong to keep their options open when the very survival of some clubs may be at stake?
Fair play to the French for taking the sensible decision to end the season.
It's difficult. The very survival of many jobs and companies is at stake.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 28, 2020, 03:22:22 PM
UEFA has set a limit of 25th May to state whether each country will or won't finish their respective leagues. It's a good while away, but if the Premier League state after Fridays meeting that they will finish the season, then they're in all sorts of grey areas - they just can't know whats going to happen.Do you think this has to be a definitive position? How can UEFA hold them to it if a country states an intention to finish the season but ultimately circumstances make it impossible?
I assume they're trying to plan next season.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 28, 2020, 03:25:37 PM
Yes it is - many tens of thousands of businesses around the world will go bust as a direct result of this pandemic yet you persist in believing that football is a special case. Most clubs are living a financial lie and sadly this crisis might finally cause some of them to fold.Most businesses will probably be allowed to be up and running again in May, let alone June, July or August. Yet you persist in believing that football is a special case and should not be even allowed to discuss a potential future.
To put it bluntly deaths have approximately halved in the last 7 to 10 days. Say, hypothetically, we are down to no deaths by mid June and the lockdown has largely ended. Would it still be wrong to look at behind closed doors games take place in August? If not this season ending then next season starting. Or do you believe next season should be written off too, probably with the result of dozens of long established clubs going to the wall?
Post by: aev on April 28, 2020, 03:49:30 PM
Speaking to the Telegraph, D'Hooge advised that no football should be taking place before at least the end of August and said it was a "matter of life and death".
“We are all subject to decisions at national level from the public authorities," he said.
"It is very simple. Football suddenly becomes not the most important thing in life. I will be very happy if we can start, in a convenient way, the next championship and have nothing before the start of next season."
Post by: garyellis on April 28, 2020, 03:53:22 PM
While the trend is definitely down (mainly due to social distancing measures) death rates in care homes have tripled in the last three weeks. The curve has flattened there are still a lot of people in hospital seriously ill with Covid-19.Yes it is - many tens of thousands of businesses around the world will go bust as a direct result of this pandemic yet you persist in believing that football is a special case. Most clubs are living a financial lie and sadly this crisis might finally cause some of them to fold.Most businesses will probably be allowed to be up and running again in May, let alone June, July or August. Yet you persist in believing that football is a special case and should not be even allowed to discuss a potential future.
To put it bluntly deaths have approximately halved in the last 7 to 10 days. Say, hypothetically, we are down to no deaths by mid June and the lockdown has largely ended. Would it still be wrong to look at behind closed doors games take place in August? If not this season ending then next season starting. Or do you believe next season should be written off too, probably with the result of dozens of long established clubs going to the wall?
Post by: chrisw1 on April 28, 2020, 04:17:36 PM
I know Gary and it's absolutely horrific. But that doesn't change the hypothetical question I asked, which given how far we have travelled in 6 weeks not be that implausible.While the trend is definitely down (mainly due to social distancing measures) death rates in care homes have tripled in the last three weeks. The curve has flattened there are still a lot of people in hospital seriously ill with Covid-19.Yes it is - many tens of thousands of businesses around the world will go bust as a direct result of this pandemic yet you persist in believing that football is a special case. Most clubs are living a financial lie and sadly this crisis might finally cause some of them to fold.Most businesses will probably be allowed to be up and running again in May, let alone June, July or August. Yet you persist in believing that football is a special case and should not be even allowed to discuss a potential future.
To put it bluntly deaths have approximately halved in the last 7 to 10 days. Say, hypothetically, we are down to no deaths by mid June and the lockdown has largely ended. Would it still be wrong to look at behind closed doors games take place in August? If not this season ending then next season starting. Or do you believe next season should be written off too, probably with the result of dozens of long established clubs going to the wall?
Post by: David_Nab on April 28, 2020, 04:18:55 PM
France have stopped all sport until September, including behind closed doors.
Which is where it starts getting more political , if the UK gov allows it and deaths go up / a footballer gets sick then there are going to get hammered I can't see them taking the risk.There is still criticism of Cheltenham and the Madrid /Liverpool game going ahead.
Post by: Gareth on April 28, 2020, 04:29:06 PM
The PL are purely looking at this as a financial issue. It'll be interesting what the PFA stance will be.
With Gordon Blatter in charge the PFA stance will be the same as the PL
Post by: nick harper on April 28, 2020, 04:33:06 PM
Yes it is - many tens of thousands of businesses around the world will go bust as a direct result of this pandemic yet you persist in believing that football is a special case. Most clubs are living a financial lie and sadly this crisis might finally cause some of them to fold.Most businesses will probably be allowed to be up and running again in May, let alone June, July or August. Yet you persist in believing that football is a special case and should not be even allowed to discuss a potential future.
To put it bluntly deaths have approximately halved in the last 7 to 10 days. Say, hypothetically, we are down to no deaths by mid June and the lockdown has largely ended. Would it still be wrong to look at behind closed doors games take place in August? If not this season ending then next season starting. Or do you believe next season should be written off too, probably with the result of dozens of long established clubs going to the wall?
Most businesses can adapt to some form of social distancing measures, football can’t.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 28, 2020, 04:33:15 PM
Yes it is - many tens of thousands of businesses around the world will go bust as a direct result of this pandemic yet you persist in believing that football is a special case. Most clubs are living a financial lie and sadly this crisis might finally cause some of them to fold.Most businesses will probably be allowed to be up and running again in May, let alone June, July or August. Yet you persist in believing that football is a special case and should not be even allowed to discuss a potential future.
To put it bluntly deaths have approximately halved in the last 7 to 10 days. Say, hypothetically, we are down to no deaths by mid June and the lockdown has largely ended. Would it still be wrong to look at behind closed doors games take place in August? If not this season ending then next season starting. Or do you believe next season should be written off too, probably with the result of dozens of long established clubs going to the wall?
Even hypothetically I'd say those two clauses are incompatible, unless you change that 'and' to an 'or', especially with that 'largely' in there.
Also, how will starting a new season behind closed doors prevent dozens of long established clubs going to the wall? I assume we're on about lower division sides, those that rely on gate money to survive? Bridging loans wouldn't help, they'd have no chance of repaying them.
And no, I've no idea what an actual solution looks like. I still think we're looking at next year before football can get back to normal. Some clubs won't survive. Maybe some bigger than others.
Grim times ahead, I fear.
Post by: aev on April 28, 2020, 04:37:42 PM
There is a chart that showing European excess deaths so far above their “normal" levels for the time of yr. In other countries excess mortality is falling. In England it's still rising.
Post by: Pete3206 on April 28, 2020, 04:45:37 PM
If the Premier League had a shred of integrity, it would bin the season off now.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 28, 2020, 04:48:44 PM
Are we even sure deaths have halved? I think a lot of this depends upon how you determine the numbers.I don't want to misquote figures, I was just basing it on the reported hospital deaths although we all know wider deaths will be much higher.
There is a chart that showing European excess deaths so far above their “normal" levels for the time of yr. In other countries excess mortality is falling. In England it's still rising.
All I was trying to say is that for me, I'm really hoping this virus will be under control come late summer. In those circumstances I can see sports seasons starting behind closed doors in August or September. Following that rationale, I was just querying if that does become the case, is it that much of a stretch for the PL to just discuss the possibility that the first games will be the conclusion of the current season? I appreciate for some it is distateful for the PL to even discuss it, but given the potential financial impact on some clubs, I think it would be negligent for them not to at least explore it.
But hopefully the French announcement will put pressure on them and this will all be put to bed shortly.
Post by: andyh on April 28, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
Belgium, Holland and now France.Germany’s approach isn’t helping.
If the Premier League had a shred of integrity, it would bin the season off now.
Post by: Villan82 on April 28, 2020, 04:56:49 PM
Post by: cdward on April 28, 2020, 05:10:31 PM
Or Belarus, although reading reports, the fans are staying away from the matches, only 300 turned up at a game that would expect 2,000, and the players are starting to have concerns about still playing.Belgium, Holland and now France.Germany’s approach isn’t helping.
If the Premier League had a shred of integrity, it would bin the season off now.
Post by: curiousorange on April 28, 2020, 05:31:56 PM
Yes, it's a cynical way to look at it, but when they're discussing bastardising the game with non-contact set pieces and neutral festivals in closed grounds, it's hard to see it as a health issue.
Post by: curiousorange on April 28, 2020, 05:35:06 PM
Post by: andyh on April 28, 2020, 05:44:26 PM
Post by: Rotterdam on April 28, 2020, 05:47:57 PM
Post by: The Edge on April 28, 2020, 05:57:47 PM
Cancelling the system is a fantastic way of righting the wrongs of VAR.You read my mind. I said on the var thread ages ago that this season could be voided due to the blatant injustices they have managed to inflict on teams. I was half joking but every cloud and all that.
Post by: andyh on April 28, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52462233
Post by: Mister E on April 28, 2020, 06:23:20 PM
Post by: Des Little on April 28, 2020, 06:30:07 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 28, 2020, 08:57:13 PM
For example if the Gov do as they have done in France and decree no sports then if voided do Sky have a claim on the PL for monies owed when legally the PL had to stop playing?
Post by: Richard on April 28, 2020, 09:06:49 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2020, 09:14:41 PM
Either way the PL need the TV companies more than ever.
Post by: David_Nab on April 28, 2020, 09:18:56 PM
1000 tests a week ...
Quote
The Premier League will discuss the testing procedures on Friday as the pressure grows on them to restart and get the games finished to satisfy the TV paymasters.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 28, 2020, 09:34:39 PM
If you a mid table side playing for ‘nothing’ , would those players want to put themselves at risk just to see the season out?
Post by: john2710 on April 28, 2020, 09:35:39 PM
Wouldn't the likelihood that much of next seasons games will played behind closed doors mean that Sky would get more revenue / advertising from showing more games?
Post by: Steve67 on April 28, 2020, 09:48:33 PM
Yes it is - many tens of thousands of businesses around the world will go bust as a direct result of this pandemic yet you persist in believing that football is a special case. Most clubs are living a financial lie and sadly this crisis might finally cause some of them to fold.Most businesses will probably be allowed to be up and running again in May, let alone June, July or August. Yet you persist in believing that football is a special case and should not be even allowed to discuss a potential future.
To put it bluntly deaths have approximately halved in the last 7 to 10 days. Say, hypothetically, we are down to no deaths by mid June and the lockdown has largely ended. Would it still be wrong to look at behind closed doors games take place in August? If not this season ending then next season starting. Or do you believe next season should be written off too, probably with the result of dozens of long established clubs going to the wall?
If we are down to no deaths and lockdown has largely ended, why not allow the fans back in? Hypothetically.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2020, 09:59:29 PM
Haven't Sky said they're not looking to recoup the money from PL clubs?Will Sky be able to charge the same amount to punters and advertisers following and probably during the worst recession ever and unemployment at levels never seen before?
Wouldn't the likelihood that much of next seasons games will played behind closed doors mean that Sky would get more revenue / advertising from showing more games?
I don’t think they have thought about the economic impact and what it is going to do to their business model.
Post by: paul_e on April 28, 2020, 10:03:00 PM
Are we even sure deaths have halved? I think a lot of this depends upon how you determine the numbers.I don't want to misquote figures, I was just basing it on the reported hospital deaths although we all know wider deaths will be much higher.
There is a chart that showing European excess deaths so far above their “normal" levels for the time of yr. In other countries excess mortality is falling. In England it's still rising.
All I was trying to say is that for me, I'm really hoping this virus will be under control come late summer. In those circumstances I can see sports seasons starting behind closed doors in August or September. Following that rationale, I was just querying if that does become the case, is it that much of a stretch for the PL to just discuss the possibility that the first games will be the conclusion of the current season? I appreciate for some it is distateful for the PL to even discuss it, but given the potential financial impact on some clubs, I think it would be negligent for them not to at least explore it.
But hopefully the French announcement will put pressure on them and this will all be put to bed shortly.
In this hypothetical version where the league finishes in August:
How are European places awarded seeing as the first games would be scheduled before our season finishes?
Is there a pre-season break after it concludes to allow for transfers, etc? - if promotion and relegation are retained there's need to be something to address that.
How does this impact the 20/21 season? - remember that season can't run long because of the rescheduled Euros so everything has to finish by late May.
There is still the problem of player and sponsor contracts to resolve if things run past the end of June, any thoughts on that?
No prize money can be given out until the season is void or complete so clubs that are expecting a big chunk of cash next month would have to wait until August. Is that not just as big a risk of seeing clubs fold as many are already running up huge debts?
There's a lot more issues than that but those alone should be enough to show that, as I've been saying all along, if football can be played come august/september then they need to end this season and focus on getting things ready for that.
You can answer if you like, or you can sulk again, either works.
Post by: walsall villain on April 28, 2020, 10:09:51 PM
Haven't Sky said they're not looking to recoup the money from PL clubs?I wonder what the demand would be for watching behind closed doors football week in week out? Uncharted territory.
Wouldn't the likelihood that much of next seasons games will played behind closed doors mean that Sky would get more revenue / advertising from showing more games?
Post by: David_Nab on April 28, 2020, 10:17:47 PM
Haven't Sky said they're not looking to recoup the money from PL clubs?
Wouldn't the likelihood that much of next seasons games will played behind closed doors mean that Sky would get more revenue / advertising from showing more games?
It's not a one way street there is a reason Sky and BT pay so much for football , they could call the cash in and short term it would hit the clubs but long term is likely to see the PL look to run their own broadcasts ..Amazon would like more of the action and DAZN are looking to get into the UK market
Post by: Legion on April 28, 2020, 10:22:04 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 28, 2020, 10:27:40 PM
Post by: john2710 on April 28, 2020, 10:30:43 PM
Haven't Sky said they're not looking to recoup the money from PL clubs?I wonder what the demand would be for watching behind closed doors football week in week out? Uncharted territory.
Wouldn't the likelihood that much of next seasons games will played behind closed doors mean that Sky would get more revenue / advertising from showing more games?
Whatever the outcome it'll mean football moving even further towards a TV audience.
Post by: Ads on April 28, 2020, 10:32:31 PM
Post by: AV82EC on April 28, 2020, 10:33:55 PM
Does it take a player, coach or official to die before they'll see the absurdity of their plans?
With these money grubbing bastards? Probably....
Post by: Richard E on April 28, 2020, 10:34:37 PM
Does it take a player, coach or official to die before they'll see the absurdity of their plans?
With these money grubbing bastards? Probably....
Yes. I think it does.
Post by: walsall villain on April 28, 2020, 10:39:20 PM
Wouldn't be interested in the slightest, to be honest.Me neither. It’s always been about being there for me, don’t like watching televised villa games much and ‘no atmosphere’ tv would be crap
Post by: aldridgeboy on April 29, 2020, 01:22:53 AM
Haven't Sky said they're not looking to recoup the money from PL clubs?I wonder what the demand would be for watching behind closed doors football week in week out? Uncharted territory.
Wouldn't the likelihood that much of next seasons games will played behind closed doors mean that Sky would get more revenue / advertising from showing more games?
Whatever the outcome it'll mean football moving even further towards a TV audience.
Before the virus came along, I was wondering how IPTV was going to affect sky. It really seems to be on the rise, which can only be bad for Sky ( and BT). I see lots more people paying £40 a year for all the channels, which I think is probably cheaper than a single month ?
That, plus the recession that’s likely to come, surely mean a bed few years for Sky coming up?
Post by: adrenachrome on April 29, 2020, 02:58:23 AM
My view is that they want to generate some momentum for next season, which will likely start with empty stadiums as well. Can't say I am thrilled by the prospect, but the alternatives aren't great either.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 29, 2020, 03:04:00 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on April 29, 2020, 03:10:48 AM
The alternative of voiding the season while we all laugh hysterically at Liverpool, Leeds and West Brom IS great.
This. I couldn't think of a better outcome.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 29, 2020, 03:59:49 AM
Post by: sid1964 on April 29, 2020, 06:31:58 AM
If they have to go back to doing there job, they will just have to get on with it, like we all will have to.
Saw an interview on SKY, where someone was suggesting that if a footballer spits during the game then he will be given a yellow card, maybe they will have a spittoon (like in the old westerns) placed on the side of the pitch, for them to do that disgusting habit.
Post by: LeeB on April 29, 2020, 07:14:24 AM
Just a question, we all seem to be worried that a player may die because of contracting the virus, what will happen when we all go back to work, do we honestly believe that no one will catch this disease from someone they work with or by? - it seems reading a lot of the posts on here, that footballers are for some reason considered more special than the average working class person in the street.
If they have to go back to doing there job, they will just have to get on with it, like we all will have to.
Saw an interview on SKY, where someone was suggesting that if a footballer spits during the game then he will be given a yellow card, maybe they will have a spittoon (like in the old westerns) placed on the side of the pitch, for them to do that disgusting habit.
I don't wrestle with my colleagues in the kitchen when there is a corrner though, it's not quite the same thing.
Post by: PeterWithe on April 29, 2020, 07:22:50 AM
Post by: sid1964 on April 29, 2020, 08:16:51 AM
My wife is a key worker - one of her colleagues has corona virus and continued working until she was told to go home - they are all still having to go to work, obviously the person who had corona virus did not!
lots of questions no real answers.
Post by: LeeB on April 29, 2020, 08:26:42 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 29, 2020, 08:47:51 AM
I was addressing the general distaste for playing behind closed doors, not the technicalities that either can be resolved or they can't. The 'as long as it takes' mantra suggested the PL at least wanted to look into it. They could have just asked you of course, but I suspect they want to undertake their own analysis.Are we even sure deaths have halved? I think a lot of this depends upon how you determine the numbers.I don't want to misquote figures, I was just basing it on the reported hospital deaths although we all know wider deaths will be much higher.
There is a chart that showing European excess deaths so far above their “normal" levels for the time of yr. In other countries excess mortality is falling. In England it's still rising.
All I was trying to say is that for me, I'm really hoping this virus will be under control come late summer. In those circumstances I can see sports seasons starting behind closed doors in August or September. Following that rationale, I was just querying if that does become the case, is it that much of a stretch for the PL to just discuss the possibility that the first games will be the conclusion of the current season? I appreciate for some it is distateful for the PL to even discuss it, but given the potential financial impact on some clubs, I think it would be negligent for them not to at least explore it.
But hopefully the French announcement will put pressure on them and this will all be put to bed shortly.
In this hypothetical version where the league finishes in August:
How are European places awarded seeing as the first games would be scheduled before our season finishes?
Is there a pre-season break after it concludes to allow for transfers, etc? - if promotion and relegation are retained there's need to be something to address that.
How does this impact the 20/21 season? - remember that season can't run long because of the rescheduled Euros so everything has to finish by late May.
There is still the problem of player and sponsor contracts to resolve if things run past the end of June, any thoughts on that?
No prize money can be given out until the season is void or complete so clubs that are expecting a big chunk of cash next month would have to wait until August. Is that not just as big a risk of seeing clubs fold as many are already running up huge debts?
There's a lot more issues than that but those alone should be enough to show that, as I've been saying all along, if football can be played come august/september then they need to end this season and focus on getting things ready for that.
You can answer if you like, or you can sulk again, either works.
I wasn't sulking, the reality is your patronising know it all style just bores me to tears.
Cheers.
Post by: cdward on April 29, 2020, 08:51:55 AM
Matches will be abandoned in that case, there wont be enough players left on the pitch.
Saw an interview on SKY, where someone was suggesting that if a footballer spits during the game then he will be given a yellow card, .
Post by: frank black on April 29, 2020, 09:01:02 AM
Post by: paul_e on April 29, 2020, 09:15:42 AM
I was addressing the general distaste for playing behind closed doors, not the technicalities that either can be resolved or they can't. The 'as long as it takes' mantra suggested the PL at least wanted to look into it. They could have just asked you of course, but I suspect they want to undertake their own analysis.
I wasn't sulking, the reality is your patronising know it all style just bores me to tears.
Cheers.
But it's not patronising to tell people why they think the season should be resolved in a certain way is just because they're biased and won't admit it?
Oh and I don't think I have all the answers, I will however ask questions if something is put forward that doesn't make sense. If you'd just answer some of the questions instead of sulking it'd be nice.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 29, 2020, 09:37:11 AM
Bin men in a lorry don't sit 2 metres from each other in the cab - my desk at work is not 2 metres from the next person - what if you have to show an apprentice or trainee how to do a particular job at work?
My wife is a key worker - one of her colleagues has corona virus and continued working until she was told to go home - they are all still having to go to work, obviously the person who had corona virus did not!
lots of questions no real answers.
WTF???
I'm one of those who go in with a cold, but this day and age what on earth was she thinking?
Post by: Somniloquism on April 29, 2020, 09:39:17 AM
Matches will be abandoned in that case, there wont be enough players left on the pitch.
Saw an interview on SKY, where someone was suggesting that if a footballer spits during the game then he will be given a yellow card, .
Instant red for a snot rocket?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 29, 2020, 10:24:01 AM
Matches will be abandoned in that case, there wont be enough players left on the pitch.
Saw an interview on SKY, where someone was suggesting that if a footballer spits during the game then he will be given a yellow card, .
Also what about sweating. How's that going to work?
Although obviously none of our players ever work up a sweat etc etc
Post by: mr underhill on April 29, 2020, 10:51:21 AM
Post by: cdward on April 29, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 29, 2020, 10:54:42 AM
Post by: LeeB on April 29, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Maybe they can play out the remaining games using Zorb/bubble football rules, there will be no physical contact.
Beat you to it several pages back.
Post by: LeeB on April 29, 2020, 11:28:05 AM
I wonder if they've considered settling it all via a Rocket League tournament?
I'll play for us, I'm shit hot and do an excellent line in childish abuse.
Post by: Ads on April 29, 2020, 11:46:20 AM
Post by: Risso on April 29, 2020, 11:49:30 AM
Just a question, we all seem to be worried that a player may die because of contracting the virus, what will happen when we all go back to work, do we honestly believe that no one will catch this disease from someone they work with or by? - it seems reading a lot of the posts on here, that footballers are for some reason considered more special than the average working class person in the street.
If they have to go back to doing there job, they will just have to get on with it, like we all will have to.
Saw an interview on SKY, where someone was suggesting that if a footballer spits during the game then he will be given a yellow card, maybe they will have a spittoon (like in the old westerns) placed on the side of the pitch, for them to do that disgusting habit.
I don't wrestle with my colleagues in the kitchen when there is a corrner though, it's not quite the same thing.
You should have seen my old office when somebody brought cakes in.
Post by: in exile on April 29, 2020, 11:51:59 AM
Post by: mr underhill on April 29, 2020, 11:56:04 AM
Post by: aev on April 29, 2020, 12:03:06 PM
I'd kill at the moment for a big lice of victoria's sponge.
Itching for a bit of cake?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 29, 2020, 01:17:41 PM
Post by: CT on April 29, 2020, 01:59:56 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 29, 2020, 02:41:22 PM
I'd kill at the moment for a big lice of victoria's sponge.
I don't want to nit-pick, but who is this victoria you speak of and do you think she'd let you have some?
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 29, 2020, 02:43:54 PM
She is not big on personal hygiene.I'd kill at the moment for a big lice of victoria's sponge.
I don't want to nit-pick, but who is this victoria you speak of and do you think she'd let you have some?
Post by: Mister E on April 29, 2020, 02:58:07 PM
I'd kill at the moment for a big lice of victoria's sponge.A big lick of Victoria's what??
Post by: mr underhill on April 29, 2020, 03:17:28 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 29, 2020, 07:08:54 PM
Post by: Legion on April 29, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Post by: aev on April 29, 2020, 09:08:18 PM
The feasibility of 'Project Restart' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52443200)
I think there have been a few articles from journalists (notably The Guardian) questioning the return but this is the first I have seen from the BBC.
Post by: olaftab on April 29, 2020, 09:18:12 PM
should have spell checked that one. I meant to say A big slice of Victoria SpongeOh no you didn't. You knew exactly what you were doing😊
Post by: john2710 on April 29, 2020, 10:04:27 PM
After the way the Tories / press singled out footballers for not playing their part, I’d be very cautious about re-starting if I was the PL bosses.
Post by: David_Nab on April 29, 2020, 10:44:15 PM
Quote
All footballs, GPS units, cones, corner flags, goalposts and other equipment to be disinfected before and after use by staff wearing PPE
Players to wear snood/masks at all times
Cars to be parked three spaces apart
No massages unless approved by club doctor
Fluids to be left at designated pick-up points
Only visit training block to use toilet
Initially only five players per training group
Players to be given designated time slots and 15 minutes to prepare
75 minutes of small group training
15 minutes recovery
Players and staff will be banned from spitting at the Training Ground
An utter shambles and this is just for training ...
Neutral venues discussed as Police worried about fans gathering ..so 1) Are they going to keep the neutral ground secret 2)Do they think 1000's of fans can't drive to another ground or are we into the realms of it's Liverpool playing their game will be as far away from Liverpool as possible...
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 29, 2020, 10:56:28 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-draw-up-seven-21949358QuoteAll footballs, GPS units, cones, corner flags, goalposts and other equipment to be disinfected before and after use by staff wearing PPE
Players to wear snood/masks at all times
Cars to be parked three spaces apart
No massages unless approved by club doctor
Fluids to be left at designated pick-up points
Only visit training block to use toilet
Initially only five players per training group
Players to be given designated time slots and 15 minutes to prepare
75 minutes of small group training
15 minutes recovery
Players and staff will be banned from spitting at the Training Ground
An utter shambles and this is just for training ...
Neutral venues discussed as Police worried about fans gathering ..so 1) Are they going to keep the neutral ground secret 2)Do they think 1000's of fans can't drive to another ground or are we into the realms of it's Liverpool playing their game will be as far away from Liverpool as possible...
Thank god football is none contact and 5 a side. This will be great prep for full sized games.
The loss of home stadium advantage at all (even without fans) makes the whole integrity a laughing stock.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 29, 2020, 11:01:35 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-draw-up-seven-21949358QuoteAll footballs, GPS units, cones, corner flags, goalposts and other equipment to be disinfected before and after use by staff wearing PPE
Players to wear snood/masks at all times
Cars to be parked three spaces apart
No massages unless approved by club doctor
Fluids to be left at designated pick-up points
Only visit training block to use toilet
Initially only five players per training group
Players to be given designated time slots and 15 minutes to prepare
75 minutes of small group training
15 minutes recovery
Players and staff will be banned from spitting at the Training Ground
An utter shambles and this is just for training ...
Neutral venues discussed as Police worried about fans gathering ..so 1) Are they going to keep the neutral ground secret 2)Do they think 1000's of fans can't drive to another ground or are we into the realms of it's Liverpool playing their game will be as far away from Liverpool as possible...
Thank god football is none contact and 5 a side. This will be great prep for full sized games.
The loss of home stadium advantage at all (even without fans) makes the whole integrity a laughing stock.
Just to give some idea of the level of debate, a lot of Twitter comments on the subject of 350 people at a closed-doors game were on the theme of "That's not many in a 50,000 seater stadium, they can spread around."
Post by: olaftab on April 29, 2020, 11:03:30 PM
Quote from: David_Nab link=topic=60688.msg3756435#msg3756435
All footballs, GPS units, cones, corner flags, goalposts and other equipment to be disinfected before and after use by staff wearing PPEThis is hilarious. A sanitised football cleaned by staff wearing PPE becomes suspect as soon as a player touches it or heads it.
Post by: David_Nab on April 29, 2020, 11:18:12 PM
Quote
How can you retain the Premier League’s “sporting integrity” when, after clubs have enjoyed home advantage for two thirds of the season, games are suddenly played at “neutral, approved” venues like Wembley, St George’s Park or Twickenham?
Where’s the sporting integrity when, after two thirds of the season is played using three substitutes you can suddenly use five, as has been suggested?
What I have been saying for a while and there is lack of VAR to add to that and god knows what ever crazy plan they have next .
Post by: Steve67 on April 29, 2020, 11:28:23 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 12:04:57 AM
Gets even better. Whole things beyond a disgrace
Post by: David_Nab on April 30, 2020, 12:30:18 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8271249/Premier-League-planning-play-theres-one-positive-coronavirus-test.html
Gets even better. Whole things beyond a disgrace
That is a complete piss take
Post by: Des Little on April 30, 2020, 12:43:01 AM
Post by: aldridgeboy on April 30, 2020, 12:50:31 AM
Football could really damage its own image for a very long time.
Call it off , and call it off now
Post by: Pete3206 on April 30, 2020, 01:03:53 AM
Cancel the season idiots.
Post by: sid1964 on April 30, 2020, 06:37:41 AM
Yesterday the owners of QPR - reckon that quite a few clubs will go out of business within the next few weeks, which is such a shame if you are a fan of one of those clubs or an employee.
Also G Neville made a good point about clubs that are deferring wages (such as us), the cost to these clubs when they have to pay back the deferred wages later in the year will cause lots of issues for those clubs.
If you have a few quid to spend in the summer you could be picking up some real bargains in the transfer window, as most clubs will reduce the value of players just to get them off the wage bill.
Post by: johnc on April 30, 2020, 07:57:01 AM
Post by: OzVilla on April 30, 2020, 07:58:13 AM
Post by: stubbsyandy on April 30, 2020, 08:58:07 AM
Stay safe.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 09:21:43 AM
I'm not against them looking at the viability of closed doors games in principal. But seriously if this article is true and they think it would in any way reflect a fair and reasonable way to end the season it would be a joke. No club should agree to this.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8271249/Premier-League-planning-play-theres-one-positive-coronavirus-test.html
Gets even better. Whole things beyond a disgrace
That is a complete piss take
Post by: mr underhill on April 30, 2020, 09:23:34 AM
Post by: aev on April 30, 2020, 09:25:37 AM
I'm not against them looking at the viability of closed doors games in principal. But seriously if this article is true and they think it would in any way reflect a fair and reasonable way to end the season it would be a joke. No club should agree to this.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8271249/Premier-League-planning-play-theres-one-positive-coronavirus-test.html
Gets even better. Whole things beyond a disgrace
That is a complete piss take
I am not sure why any relegation threatened clubs would agree to giving up home advantage, and increasing the number of subs to 5 would presumably benefit the clubs with bigger stronger squads.
It is farcical.
Post by: mallo on April 30, 2020, 09:44:30 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 09:53:14 AM
Post by: David_Nab on April 30, 2020, 11:21:49 AM
Post by: Ads on April 30, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 30, 2020, 11:41:57 AM
I know these are exceptional times but why bother playing the final third of any season if they can come to that decision with all to play for.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 30, 2020, 11:46:12 AM
Post by: Des Little on April 30, 2020, 11:59:20 AM
Post by: sid1964 on April 30, 2020, 12:11:07 PM
With regards to solicitors - it will take months before this comes to court and by then the new season will be well underway, and no one will really care at the outcome of the courts.
If we did get relegated the better players in our team (Grealish / McGinn etc..) will be long gone, by the time that any court dispute is settled.
Lets hope that they just add 2 teams that are currently at the top of the championship to the premier league and to ensure that the footballers do not get too tired, I would imagine for next season they will scrap the League Cup.
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 30, 2020, 12:12:33 PM
If they look at the game in hand they will look at the form of both clubs - it will be an easier decision to relegate us, than to drag a team that is currently out of the bottom 3 into the relegation zone.
Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
Post by: Ads on April 30, 2020, 12:17:29 PM
If they look at the game in hand they will look at the form of both clubs - it will be an easier decision to relegate us, than to drag a team that is currently out of the bottom 3 into the relegation zone.
Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
Absolutely, what a bizarre conclusion to come to, that something as fluid and intangible as form from nearly 2 months ago ought to be the basis for such an arbitrary decision. The notion that you could relegate us because of something as subjective as that is odd.
Why not let us stay up because we would pump Sheffied United, with 42,000 in a bouncing Villa Park under lights, with one of those atmospheres? Sound abit subjective and intangible?
Void the league.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 12:27:56 PM
French league awarding the title to PSG final standings to stand , ie teams in relegation zone relegatedI can't see PL clubs voting for this. At superficial level points per game seems fair, but it's easy to drive a cart and horses through it when you look at the detail. Best not to get too worked up about it as surely it can't happen.
Post by: aev on April 30, 2020, 12:29:40 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 12:31:34 PM
Post by: David_Nab on April 30, 2020, 12:34:06 PM
French league awarding the title to PSG final standings to stand , ie teams in relegation zone relegatedI can't see PL clubs voting for this. At superficial level points per game seems fair, but it's easy to drive a cart and horses through it when you look at the detail. Best not to get too worked up about it as surely it can't happen.
Take out leglity of not relegating anyone on pure votes , clubs will discuss amongst themselves and deals to be done IMO to award title to Liverpool and have no relegation
EFL now saying season not completed , at base level its one thing the PL saying they will spend 5mil on testing quite another for the EFL to fund this and manage it at lower levels.Plus the clubs need fan revenue , games on TV no help at all to them
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 30, 2020, 12:34:08 PM
The only reason it's being pushed for a conclusion is MONEY. On the one hand, you've got Sky and others paying a country's national debt for the broadcast rights, whilst viewers are pausing their contracts due to no live sport, and on the other hand, smaller clubs won't be able to stay afloat if the ban goes on for as long as it SHOULD go on for, because the money is so top heavy.
You have charlatans like Ozil earning a reported £1.4 million A MONTH at Arsenal, whilst some clubs are borderline going bust because they can't pay their basic running costs?! Something's not right.
The one thing I hope that comes out of this is that the FA somehow step in and sort this mess out (though pretty sure they don't have the power to do so?). No football club or player deserves or NEEDS that much money - Every single one of them had humble beginnings, and a large portion of that money should be spread through the lower leagues. Forget Financial Fair Play - American style salary caps could be a better solution.
More money through the leagues would mean better training/scouting/science and can only lead to a better source of players for everyone in the long term, as well as securing the future of British football for everyone - Not just armchair Man Utd and Liverpool fans in Essex.
Post by: OzVilla on April 30, 2020, 12:42:12 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 30, 2020, 12:51:04 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 30, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
But, on the flip side of that - Do we have anyone else to blame but ourselves (by that I mean our Manager, Coaching Staff and Players!)? Because lets face it, we've been absolute dog shit all season.
If someone waved a magic wand and we could start the season from where we left off right now, our only glimmer of hope is that McGinn is back fit. He'd be our only hope in getting out of it, and we'd definitely have dodged a bullet if we managed it. Based on how we've performed, you could argue that we don't really deserve to.
The only player in that squad who does deserve his place up there is Jack... but he'll be playing his football in that league next season regardless of who it's for.
Post by: Drummond on April 30, 2020, 12:58:44 PM
However, I also don't care that much if it happens. I remember saying at the time we nearly went out of business that if it had happened it would be a relief because then I could let go and not have to put up with it any more. Well now I don't know what to think.
We won't go out of business, but many other clubs might. FFP is going to have to do one or be completely revamped because otherwise owners won't be able to indiscriminately chuck cash at their club to keep it going and clubs will go to the wall (many will anyway without wealthy owners to bankroll them).
If FFP is trashed, we'd suddenly be very wealthy again (if our owners decided to be of course).
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 30, 2020, 12:59:12 PM
Yep. It would be unjust if we were relegated without completing all of our games fairly and equally to our opponents.
But, on the flip side of that - Do we have anyone else to blame but ourselves (by that I mean our Manager, Coaching Staff and Players!)? Because lets face it, we've been absolute dog shit all season.
If someone waved a magic wand and we could start the season from where we left off right now, our only glimmer of hope is that McGinn is back fit. He'd be our only hope in getting out of it, and we'd definitely have dodged a bullet if we managed it. Based on how we've performed, you could argue that we don't really deserve to.
The only player in that squad who does deserve his place up there is Jack... but he'll be playing his football in that league next season regardless of who it's for.
Why is it that our own supporters are harder on us than anyone else? We do not deserve to be relegated, we do not have nobody else to blame but ourselves, we have not been "absolute dog shit all season". Remind me how much time we've spent in the bottom three - I bet it's a lot less than at least three other clubs. You keep self-flagellating all you like, but leave the rest of us out.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 01:01:11 PM
Top 3 promoted
No relegation
Larger prem
The EFL players were briefed on this exact outcome yesterday! They have been told it’s beyond unlikely that any play in June would be possible
Post by: paul_e on April 30, 2020, 01:07:09 PM
I was pretty much done with football BEFORE the lockdown.... If this goes ahead, it can definitely fuck off into the sea.
The only reason it's being pushed for a conclusion is MONEY. On the one hand, you've got Sky and others paying a country's national debt for the broadcast rights, whilst viewers are pausing their contracts due to no live sport, and on the other hand, smaller clubs won't be able to stay afloat if the ban goes on for as long as it SHOULD go on for, because the money is so top heavy.
You have charlatans like Ozil earning a reported £1.4 million A MONTH at Arsenal, whilst some clubs are borderline going bust because they can't pay their basic running costs?! Something's not right.
The one thing I hope that comes out of this is that the FA somehow step in and sort this mess out (though pretty sure they don't have the power to do so?). No football club or player deserves or NEEDS that much money - Every single one of them had humble beginnings, and a large portion of that money should be spread through the lower leagues. Forget Financial Fair Play - American style salary caps could be a better solution.
More money through the leagues would mean better training/scouting/science and can only lead to a better source of players for everyone in the long term, as well as securing the future of British football for everyone - Not just armchair Man Utd and Liverpool fans in Essex.
Salary caps are almost impossible to implement. Look at rugby for example. That's a sport with 4 major competitions/leagues around the world, English Premiership, Celtic Pro14, French Top 14 and super rugby in the southern hemisphere (the european competitions are built on top of the first 3 and don't alter the rules). All 4 leagues have different salary cap rules and a lot of players transfer to the Top 14 because it has the highest cap and can therefore pay the most. Now try implementing that in football with all the extra complexity of extra leagues. A salary cap that was actually restrictive would risk driving players away from the league and if it isn't restrictive then it's pointless.
I completely agree with the sentiment though. Personally I'd go with some sort of solidarity fund where every club with earnings (not profits) above a threshold pays in a percentage of the earnings above that and the money is used to help smaller clubs and grass roots football.
Post by: aev on April 30, 2020, 01:08:01 PM
He is obviously an Everton fan :)
Post by: Richard E on April 30, 2020, 01:08:33 PM
I posted a few weeks back that if play cannot go ahead then the outcome would be
Top 3 promoted
No relegation
Larger prem
The EFL players were briefed on this exact outcome yesterday! They have been told it’s beyond unlikely that any play in June would be possible
Top 3 or top 2?
Post by: Villan82 on April 30, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
In any case, with the UK now among the worst affected countries in the world, accounting for about 10% (at least) confirmed global deaths, the mere fact that football thinks its 'business as usual' is disgusting.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 01:13:27 PM
I posted a few weeks back that if play cannot go ahead then the outcome would be
Top 3 promoted
No relegation
Larger prem
The EFL players were briefed on this exact outcome yesterday! They have been told it’s beyond unlikely that any play in June would be possible
Top 3 or top 2?
Efl players have been told top 3
Post by: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 01:17:45 PM
But I'd still take it if that's all that is on offer.
Post by: Risso on April 30, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
French league awarding the title to PSG final standings to stand , ie teams in relegation zone relegatedI can't see PL clubs voting for this. At superficial level points per game seems fair, but it's easy to drive a cart and horses through it when you look at the detail. Best not to get too worked up about it as surely it can't happen.
At least in France the bottom three and the teams just above them have all played the same number of games. And the bottom three are all at least three points from safety, so they've got a bit less of an argument. Still shit though.
Post by: malckennedy on April 30, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
If they look at the game in hand they will look at the form of both clubs - it will be an easier decision to relegate us, than to drag a team that is currently out of the bottom 3 into the relegation zone.
Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
Absolutely, what a bizarre conclusion to come to, that something as fluid and intangible as form from nearly 2 months ago ought to be the basis for such an arbitrary decision. The notion that you could relegate us because of something as subjective as that is odd.
Why not let us stay up because we would pump Sheffied United, with 42,000 in a bouncing Villa Park under lights, with one of those atmospheres? Sound abit subjective and intangible?
Void the league.
Agreed. There is no other equitable decision that can be made. I’m not sure why anyone could think there is if 25% of the fixtures are not played and there are different numbers of unplayed games between the clubs.
Post by: JJ-AV on April 30, 2020, 01:29:29 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 30, 2020, 01:32:32 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 30, 2020, 01:33:24 PM
Yep. It would be unjust if we were relegated without completing all of our games fairly and equally to our opponents.
But, on the flip side of that - Do we have anyone else to blame but ourselves (by that I mean our Manager, Coaching Staff and Players!)? Because lets face it, we've been absolute dog shit all season.
If someone waved a magic wand and we could start the season from where we left off right now, our only glimmer of hope is that McGinn is back fit. He'd be our only hope in getting out of it, and we'd definitely have dodged a bullet if we managed it. Based on how we've performed, you could argue that we don't really deserve to.
The only player in that squad who does deserve his place up there is Jack... but he'll be playing his football in that league next season regardless of who it's for.
Why is it that our own supporters are harder on us than anyone else? We do not deserve to be relegated, we do not have nobody else to blame but ourselves, we have not been "absolute dog shit all season". Remind me how much time we've spent in the bottom three - I bet it's a lot less than at least three other clubs. You keep self-flagellating all you like, but leave the rest of us out.
Hey Dave, I'm not saying we DESERVE to be relegated. I'd be screaming from the rooftops like all of us if we managed to get out of it.... We've also got a game in hand which if won, would see us out of the bottom 3 on merit.
What I meant by the comment was the amount of games where we've rocked up, expecting the team to build on a previous, possibly promising performance and..... nothing - Time and time again. Either through lack of effort/fitness, poor tactics, squad selection or game management we're back to square one, every flippin time!
The league table doesn't lie... it does however fib a little until ALL 38 games have been played fairly and consistently!
At present (with one less game under our belt), we're apparently the 2nd worst team in the league. Hopefully, common sense prevails and football is paused until the season can be continued fairly and safely, in EXACTLY the same way before it was stopped. If not, they've got to null and void it, ease FFP restrictions on clubs, compensate teams who were nailed on for achieving things, and then start again when safe to do so in a manner befitting of top tier football - NOT the equivalent of us and our mates having a kickaround on an astro turf pitch at the local sports hall
Post by: London Villan on April 30, 2020, 01:54:46 PM
The only benefit of the early start of the premier league is that it is another step closer to some sort of normality... and that is a good thing, but at what cost?
Post by: paul_e on April 30, 2020, 01:58:56 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 30, 2020, 02:10:07 PM
I was pretty much done with football BEFORE the lockdown.... If this goes ahead, it can definitely fuck off into the sea.
The only reason it's being pushed for a conclusion is MONEY. On the one hand, you've got Sky and others paying a country's national debt for the broadcast rights, whilst viewers are pausing their contracts due to no live sport, and on the other hand, smaller clubs won't be able to stay afloat if the ban goes on for as long as it SHOULD go on for, because the money is so top heavy.
You have charlatans like Ozil earning a reported £1.4 million A MONTH at Arsenal, whilst some clubs are borderline going bust because they can't pay their basic running costs?! Something's not right.
The one thing I hope that comes out of this is that the FA somehow step in and sort this mess out (though pretty sure they don't have the power to do so?). No football club or player deserves or NEEDS that much money - Every single one of them had humble beginnings, and a large portion of that money should be spread through the lower leagues. Forget Financial Fair Play - American style salary caps could be a better solution.
More money through the leagues would mean better training/scouting/science and can only lead to a better source of players for everyone in the long term, as well as securing the future of British football for everyone - Not just armchair Man Utd and Liverpool fans in Essex.
Salary caps are almost impossible to implement. Look at rugby for example. That's a sport with 4 major competitions/leagues around the world, English Premiership, Celtic Pro14, French Top 14 and super rugby in the southern hemisphere (the european competitions are built on top of the first 3 and don't alter the rules). All 4 leagues have different salary cap rules and a lot of players transfer to the Top 14 because it has the highest cap and can therefore pay the most. Now try implementing that in football with all the extra complexity of extra leagues. A salary cap that was actually restrictive would risk driving players away from the league and if it isn't restrictive then it's pointless.
I completely agree with the sentiment though. Personally I'd go with some sort of solidarity fund where every club with earnings (not profits) above a threshold pays in a percentage of the earnings above that and the money is used to help smaller clubs and grass roots football.
While all my instincts are primed to be in favour of fleecing the rich and giving to the poor, I'm not sure what the justification would be for a fund that involves PL clubs doling out cash to fourth division or conference clubs so that they continue to live beyond their means. They are, after all, profit-seeking enterprises.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 30, 2020, 02:15:53 PM
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-bristol-rovers-launch-investigation-4091367
So in that link, it sounds like they're predicting that no football can be played in front of live crowds until 2021, an unfeasible 66,000 CoVid tests would be needed to complete the season behind closed doors and they won't be able to take priority over front line workers or suspected victims (doesn't state if that's just the EFL or all pro leagues), so HOW is any football going to go ahead this year in any way, shape or form?
As I suggested a while back, just put a cap on this season until next Spring,resuming it then, taking us nicely into the Euro 2021 competition. 1 season over 2 years. Job done.
Then it's down to the leagues/larger clubs/government to protect the finances of the smaller clubs (like our grumpy neighbours). ;)
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
Relegation under normal circumstances would have been bad. But with the money from the inevitable sale of Grealish (and possibly McGinn and others) we would have had the resources to bounce straight back up and compete immediately.
Going down when everyone is skint would be beyond disastrous. We would end up selling our prize assets for a fraction of their worth, with no guarantee of Premier League football any time soon.
If we avoid relegation this year, it isn't in the realms of fantasy that we could hold on to Grealish and others and be competing with the likes of Barcelona in a few years.
If we go down, we could be competing with the likes of Barnsley for years.
I don't get how anyone can be a Villa fan and say they don't care. Did you all shrug your shoulders when we got promoted? That was the best day of the last decade for me.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 30, 2020, 02:27:36 PM
Outside the world wars I don't think there's any obvious scenario to look back at for guidance on how this should be handled.
Hitlers fault. He should have invaded Poland in springtime.
Archduke Franz Ferdinand got himself assassinated close season.
Post by: Des Little on April 30, 2020, 02:28:38 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52484530
Post by: paul_e on April 30, 2020, 02:31:05 PM
I was pretty much done with football BEFORE the lockdown.... If this goes ahead, it can definitely fuck off into the sea.
The only reason it's being pushed for a conclusion is MONEY. On the one hand, you've got Sky and others paying a country's national debt for the broadcast rights, whilst viewers are pausing their contracts due to no live sport, and on the other hand, smaller clubs won't be able to stay afloat if the ban goes on for as long as it SHOULD go on for, because the money is so top heavy.
You have charlatans like Ozil earning a reported £1.4 million A MONTH at Arsenal, whilst some clubs are borderline going bust because they can't pay their basic running costs?! Something's not right.
The one thing I hope that comes out of this is that the FA somehow step in and sort this mess out (though pretty sure they don't have the power to do so?). No football club or player deserves or NEEDS that much money - Every single one of them had humble beginnings, and a large portion of that money should be spread through the lower leagues. Forget Financial Fair Play - American style salary caps could be a better solution.
More money through the leagues would mean better training/scouting/science and can only lead to a better source of players for everyone in the long term, as well as securing the future of British football for everyone - Not just armchair Man Utd and Liverpool fans in Essex.
Salary caps are almost impossible to implement. Look at rugby for example. That's a sport with 4 major competitions/leagues around the world, English Premiership, Celtic Pro14, French Top 14 and super rugby in the southern hemisphere (the european competitions are built on top of the first 3 and don't alter the rules). All 4 leagues have different salary cap rules and a lot of players transfer to the Top 14 because it has the highest cap and can therefore pay the most. Now try implementing that in football with all the extra complexity of extra leagues. A salary cap that was actually restrictive would risk driving players away from the league and if it isn't restrictive then it's pointless.
I completely agree with the sentiment though. Personally I'd go with some sort of solidarity fund where every club with earnings (not profits) above a threshold pays in a percentage of the earnings above that and the money is used to help smaller clubs and grass roots football.
While all my instincts are primed to be in favour of fleecing the rich and giving to the poor, I'm not sure what the justification would be for a fund that involves PL clubs doling out cash to fourth division or conference clubs so that they continue to live beyond their means. They are, after all, profit-seeking enterprises.
All I really mean is that it feels wrong to see clubs go out of business over a few hundred thousands pounds of debts when you've got clubs a few leagues up the pyramid paying that as a weekly wage to some of their players. I'm not thinking of this as a fund that is given straight to clubs no questions asked, more as something that they can apply for grants from and they have to give reasons for the need. I'd think of it as a replacement for clubs borrowing from banks to make repairs to their ground, training complex, or to fund school outreach programmes, that sort of thing. You could even have some of the premier league directors sit on the panel for it so they retained some control of the money.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 02:34:38 PM
I don't really get posters with tens of thousands of posts on a Villa site, who presumably have been to plenty of Villa games saying they don't care what division we are in. Baffling.Amen to that.
Relegation under normal circumstances would have been bad. But with the money from the inevitable sale of Grealish (and possibly McGinn and others) we would have had the resources to bounce straight back up and compete immediately.
Going down when everyone is skint would be beyond disastrous. We would end up selling our prize assets for a fraction of their worth, with no guarantee of Premier League football any time soon.
If we avoid relegation this year, it isn't in the realms of fantasy that we could hold on to Grealish and others and be competing with the likes of Barcelona in a few years.
If we go down, we could be competing with the likes of Barnsley for years.
I don't get how anyone can be a Villa fan and say they don't care. Did you all shrug your shoulders when we got promoted? That was the best day of the last decade for me.
Post by: saunders_heroes on April 30, 2020, 02:56:16 PM
I don't really get posters with tens of thousands of posts on a Villa site, who presumably have been to plenty of Villa games saying they don't care what division we are in. Baffling.
Relegation under normal circumstances would have been bad. But with the money from the inevitable sale of Grealish (and possibly McGinn and others) we would have had the resources to bounce straight back up and compete immediately.
Going down when everyone is skint would be beyond disastrous. We would end up selling our prize assets for a fraction of their worth, with no guarantee of Premier League football any time soon.
If we avoid relegation this year, it isn't in the realms of fantasy that we could hold on to Grealish and others and be competing with the likes of Barcelona in a few years.
If we go down, we could be competing with the likes of Barnsley for years.
I don't get how anyone can be a Villa fan and say they don't care. Did you all shrug your shoulders when we got promoted? That was the best day of the last decade for me.
Spot on.
Post by: Drummond on April 30, 2020, 02:58:28 PM
I don't really get posters with tens of thousands of posts on a Villa site, who presumably have been to plenty of Villa games saying they don't care what division we are in. Baffling.
Relegation under normal circumstances would have been bad. But with the money from the inevitable sale of Grealish (and possibly McGinn and others) we would have had the resources to bounce straight back up and compete immediately.
Going down when everyone is skint would be beyond disastrous. We would end up selling our prize assets for a fraction of their worth, with no guarantee of Premier League football any time soon.
If we avoid relegation this year, it isn't in the realms of fantasy that we could hold on to Grealish and others and be competing with the likes of Barcelona in a few years.
If we go down, we could be competing with the likes of Barnsley for years.
I don't get how anyone can be a Villa fan and say they don't care. Did you all shrug your shoulders when we got promoted? That was the best day of the last decade for me.
I think in the grand scheme of things, I enjoy watching Villa play anywhere. Back streets of Barnsley for a night time kick-off was great. Football seemed in line with tradition in the Championship and less about money. That's why I don't care. But in reality of course I don't want us to go down. I don't want to lose the most exciting player we've had since Sid. And McGinn is the best since Milner.
But in the grand scheme of life and what's going on, I don't care. Just having football back would be good.
Post by: paul_e on April 30, 2020, 03:07:32 PM
I don't really get posters with tens of thousands of posts on a Villa site, who presumably have been to plenty of Villa games saying they don't care what division we are in. Baffling.
Relegation under normal circumstances would have been bad. But with the money from the inevitable sale of Grealish (and possibly McGinn and others) we would have had the resources to bounce straight back up and compete immediately.
Going down when everyone is skint would be beyond disastrous. We would end up selling our prize assets for a fraction of their worth, with no guarantee of Premier League football any time soon.
If we avoid relegation this year, it isn't in the realms of fantasy that we could hold on to Grealish and others and be competing with the likes of Barcelona in a few years.
If we go down, we could be competing with the likes of Barnsley for years.
I don't get how anyone can be a Villa fan and say they don't care. Did you all shrug your shoulders when we got promoted? That was the best day of the last decade for me.
I think in the grand scheme of things, I enjoy watching Villa play anywhere. Back streets of Barnsley for a night time kick-off was great. Football seemed in line with tradition in the Championship and less about money. That's why I don't care. But in reality of course I don't want us to go down. I don't want to lose the most exciting player we've had since Sid. And McGinn is the best since Milner.
But in the grand scheme of life and what's going on, I don't care. Just having football back would be good.
I don't think football was any more traditional, money was still the big differentiation between the top and bottom of the league and the financial problems are probably worse in that league than the premier league.
Post by: Drummond on April 30, 2020, 03:27:03 PM
Money has always played a part in football. Some rich, some poor. But traditionally we've been a big club and in the Premier League we've not made a dent in a decade. The reality is that in the Championship you don't really get glory hunter fans. The atmosphere was was more heartfelt.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 03:30:53 PM
Well it felt it to me.But maybe that was because we were the big fish? I imagine being at the bottom end of the Championsip with less money than those at the top is just as shit as being at the bottom of the PL?
Money has always played a part in football. Some rich, some poor. But traditionally we've been a big club and in the Premier League we've not made a dent in a decade. The reality is that in the Championship you don't really get glory hunter fans. The atmosphere was was more heartfelt.
Post by: aev on April 30, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 30, 2020, 03:59:00 PM
Post by: aev on April 30, 2020, 04:04:19 PM
Post by: Legion on April 30, 2020, 04:08:33 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 30, 2020, 04:25:34 PM
German Federal Gov't have postponed decision on reopening schools and restarting football games.
The Portuguese league is going to restart behind closed doors on the 1st of June.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 30, 2020, 04:45:25 PM
German Federal Gov't have postponed decision on reopening schools and restarting football games.
The Portuguese league is going to restart behind closed doors on the 1st of June.
Is this definite? I can see a piece in the Resident that says they were expecting an announcement today, but I can't find one. https://www.portugalresident.com/football-to-restart-in-june/
That also says, "English Premier League clubs expect to start training in a couple of weeks’ time, with matches scheduled to recommence on June 8"
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on April 30, 2020, 04:53:41 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52484926
Post by: SashasGrandad on April 30, 2020, 05:10:02 PM
That will sting a bit.
I thought grabbing the crotch was only done in rugby these days - not seen it done on a football field since Vinnie did Gazza.
Post by: mr underhill on April 30, 2020, 05:33:42 PM
Post by: charlatan on April 30, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
Post by: walsall villain on April 30, 2020, 06:11:43 PM
PSG awarded the title in France - Amiens and Toulouse relegatedNot contentious though, bottom 2 well adrift. Not like that with regards to PL relegation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52484926
Post by: Mister E on April 30, 2020, 06:19:02 PM
Promoting teams from a fairy tight and notoriously fickle league seems illogical.I posted a few weeks back that if play cannot go ahead then the outcome would be
Top 3 promoted
No relegation
Larger prem
The EFL players were briefed on this exact outcome yesterday! They have been told it’s beyond unlikely that any play in June would be possible
Top 3 or top 2?
Efl players have been told top 3
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 06:44:48 PM
If games are at a neutral venue that I’d be arguing that integrity of competition is already flawed and no relegation
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 30, 2020, 07:01:03 PM
Liverpool aside this just how messy this is and there’s a whole range of conflicting interests. Money hasn’t spoken as per usual during this crisis so far, but it’s obviously God in the premier league, so would expect the PL to embarrassingly ignore all the health advice and strive as they would of done if Arteta didn’t get ill.
As a child of the 80s I don’t like Liverpool, but they’ve won the league ffs, just give it to them to shut them up. Relegation though, even Norwich aren’t adrift, that should not morally happen to any of the three at the bottom.
Post by: paul_e on April 30, 2020, 07:07:21 PM
Relegation though, even Norwich aren’t adrift, that should not morally happen to any of the three at the bottom.
Bournemouth would be a real kick in the bollocks, down on, effectively, goal difference of -1 with 9 games left to play, that would be a travesty.
Post by: devilla on April 30, 2020, 07:15:11 PM
Promoting teams from a fairy tight and notoriously fickle league seems illogical.I posted a few weeks back that if play cannot go ahead then the outcome would be
Top 3 promoted
No relegation
Larger prem
The EFL players were briefed on this exact outcome yesterday! They have been told it’s beyond unlikely that any play in June would be possible
Top 3 or top 2?
Efl players have been told top 3
Surely if the EFL are saying their leagues are over, it would be very difficult for the premier league not to do the same? How on earth could they justify resuming the league if that happens? Makes it even mare farcical if they do. Integrity my arse.
Post by: curiousorange on April 30, 2020, 07:16:21 PM
Post by: devilla on April 30, 2020, 07:23:17 PM
Seen a thing on Twitter which worked out the points per game. We would be relegated on 0.04 of a point.
>:( That would be just our luck.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 07:56:34 PM
Seen a thing on Twitter which worked out the points per game. We would be relegated on 0.04 of a point.
I was trying to explain to someone on twitter that PPG couldn’t be used. The teams we are being marked against have had one more game week played - obviously this has an effect on their average PPG.
We are on 0.89 from 28 games, two above us on 0.93 from 29 games.
Interestingly the game week we missed was the one that Watford/West Ham both won and Bournemouth drew.
Take that gameweek off them and they would have PPG of 0.85
Post by: themossman on April 30, 2020, 07:59:24 PM
Post by: aev on April 30, 2020, 08:01:07 PM
Surprised the other 14 don’t tell them to do one.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 30, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
German Federal Gov't have postponed decision on reopening schools and restarting football games.
The Portuguese league is going to restart behind closed doors on the 1st of June.
Is this definite? I can see a piece in the Resident that says they were expecting an announcement today, but I can't find one. https://www.portugalresident.com/football-to-restart-in-june/
That also says, "English Premier League clubs expect to start training in a couple of weeks’ time, with matches scheduled to recommence on June 8"
Confirmed this afternoon.
As for the English Premier League, I'm guessing they got the info from the UEFA meeting. Based on the current situation I'd say it's very ambitious but it wouldn't be the first time money and popularism got in the way of making the sensible decision.
Post by: David_Nab on April 30, 2020, 08:19:02 PM
Seen a thing on Twitter which worked out the points per game. We would be relegated on 0.04 of a point.
They are , the way the TV money is worked out the top clubs will lose the most.
Post by: walsall villain on April 30, 2020, 08:27:05 PM
Portugal introduced a lockdown quite quickly once they saw what was going on next door. Thankfully their infection rate and deaths are nothing like the U.K. and might well make the relaxation of measures less threateningGerman Federal Gov't have postponed decision on reopening schools and restarting football games.
The Portuguese league is going to restart behind closed doors on the 1st of June.
Post by: malckennedy on April 30, 2020, 08:38:20 PM
I’ve thought for a while that ppg is the least hideously unfair option while still being hideously unfair. I hope the powers that be don’t agree.
Surely the least hideously unfair option for a season where only roughly 75% of the fixtures have been completed and 4 teams have played fewer games than the other 16, is to declare the competition incomplete and therefore void. I don’t understand why any other outcome can be contemplated.
Post by: themossman on April 30, 2020, 09:03:42 PM
I just can’t see a way through - 75% of the season thing could be argued either way. We’ve played a lot more of the season than we’ve got left, and I can’t think of any teams that would argue they are very far off where they deserve to be.
Post by: The Edge on April 30, 2020, 09:23:39 PM
Seen a thing on Twitter which worked out the points per game. We would be relegated on 0.04 of a point.If that were to happen VAR would be responsible imo. Kevin Fucking Friend!!!!!
Post by: montague on April 30, 2020, 09:24:29 PM
Whether we are in the PL or EFL, in the scheme of things is not important. I am just looking forward to being able to go to VP again regardless of the opposition.
Post by: themossman on April 30, 2020, 09:47:29 PM
Post by: Richard E on April 30, 2020, 10:19:40 PM
The main thing for me is AV and the other 91 clubs survive ,and the ones below. And the game as a whole survives. This cannot be certain especially if we ease restrictions too soon and a second wave strikes. Look at the giant organisations who might not survive this. If it wasn't for the money we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Whether we are in the PL or EFL, in the scheme of things is not important. I am just looking forward to being able to go to VP again regardless of the opposition.
Sod it, I’m going to be the pedant who points out that there are only 90 other league clubs.
Post by: curiousorange on April 30, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
Personally I hope we don't do that, because it's not 22 players turning up to play a game on a training ground, but medical staff, security, media etc. Plus the scrutiny of being the last games played in the season would be unbearable, particularly for a fragile Villa who have one shot at redemption.
Obviously I hope they void the competition. I could claim it's because of a public health issue, but it's because I don't want Villa to be relegated. The morality of playing again sucks, but I'd be lying if I said that was my chief consideration.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 10:51:16 PM
As said earlier. This is a genuine plan
Post by: myf on April 30, 2020, 10:56:51 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 11:00:26 PM
PPG is a scary prospect for us but worth noting it was a neat solution in France with a clear leader and two clubs effectively cut adrift
Plus they actually have it in league rules. If competition ends then positions stand
Post by: Pete3206 on May 01, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
Post by: ozzjim on May 01, 2020, 01:16:43 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 01, 2020, 01:41:56 AM
Portugal introduced a lockdown quite quickly once they saw what was going on next door. Thankfully their infection rate and deaths are nothing like the U.K. and might well make the relaxation of measures less threateningGerman Federal Gov't have postponed decision on reopening schools and restarting football games.
The Portuguese league is going to restart behind closed doors on the 1st of June.
Down to 14 deaths today but still looking at closed door games - if possible. I'm struggling to see how England could even consider restarting the season but then I remember the money involved.
Post by: Dave P on May 01, 2020, 05:38:43 AM
PPG is a scary prospect for us but worth noting it was a neat solution in France with a clear leader and two clubs effectively cut adrift
Plus they actually have it in league rules. If competition ends then positions stand
Is that true? That’s good news for us as I’m sure that isn’t a PL rule or it would have been reported throughout.
Post by: PeterWithe on May 01, 2020, 08:01:42 AM
Post by: andyh on May 01, 2020, 08:15:16 AM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/11981384/sergio-aguero-manchester-city-striker-says-some-players-are-fearful-of-returning-amid-pandemic
Post by: walsall villain on May 01, 2020, 08:38:15 AM
R4 reporting that PL are planning to have behind closed door games up to Xmas and possibly next May.Well we have been told that until a vaccine is found we are all at risk so that’s hardly a surprise. Football is another industry that is facing catastrophic change. Will football unite to help save as many clubs as possible? I doubt it.
Post by: Ben.H on May 01, 2020, 09:27:02 AM
Just reading about Sky apparently planning to use CGI fans at behind closed door fixtures. You have to laugh at this pointless circus.I hope they're all singing, "It's not football anymore."
Post by: The Edge on May 01, 2020, 09:27:43 AM
R4 reporting that PL are planning to have behind closed door games up to Xmas and possibly next May.And they are saying that every game will be shown live. How's that going to work? You will need ground staff, medics, players,coaches, their entourage, match officials, ballboys, tv crew, commentators, electricians, drivers etc. I just don't see how playing behind closed doors is feasable or more importantly safe.We're talking about a virus, a deadly pandemic not playing behind closed doors due to crowd behaviour and such.
Post by: Baldy on May 01, 2020, 09:46:05 AM
Thank you
Dr Baldy
Post by: chrisw1 on May 01, 2020, 10:13:00 AM
Post by: mr underhill on May 01, 2020, 10:18:21 AM
Post by: levico on May 01, 2020, 10:43:31 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 01, 2020, 10:47:56 AM
I don't care any more because i'm never going to attend another PL game.
Just because the PL is wants to explore the possibility of keeping the season (and probably several clubs) alive? No decisions have been made yet and discussing the future hardly seems grounds for chucking your toys out the pram.
I tell you what, if I was a Burnley fan and I knew there was a possibility that my club which was founded in 1882 was at risk of going to the wall and the PL wasn't even looking at ways to potentially save it, then I'd be pissed off. THAT would be a reason to chuck toys, not some perceived offence that the PL is simply discussing potential ways forward.
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 11:03:00 AM
"Premier League clubs have invested in coronavirus testing machines that can turn around results in two and a half hours as they gear up towards finding a way to complete the season. The league is overseeing the initiative and it is understood that some clubs in the Championship have also purchased the machines, which cost £36,000 and are readily available.
The machines can test only one person every two and a half hours, meaning that clubs could realistically test seven employees each day with them. That, along with the cost, is probably why there is little demand for them from the NHS – whose test results take longer to return."
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 01, 2020, 11:09:49 AM
Many clubs in the league kicking off that the integrity is already messed up and clubs will have had unfair advantages from home matches so far.
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 01, 2020, 11:16:13 AM
Is future financing modelled on Sky and whoever continuing to pay the same as they do now for whatever 'product' is dished up?
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 01, 2020, 11:17:04 AM
You'd imagine Christian Purslow would be all over this.
100%
Allegedly it would only take one club to not agree to neutral venues, but in this case it’s a a”whole group”
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 11:24:56 AM
You'd imagine Christian Purslow would be all over this.
100%
Allegedly it would only take one club to not agree to neutral venues, but in this case it’s a a”whole group”
What do you think will come out of the meeting today - anything significant or will it simply kick the can down the road until we know the government's plan next week?
Post by: in exile on May 01, 2020, 11:26:14 AM
Post by: The Edge on May 01, 2020, 11:32:50 AM
Post by: cdward on May 01, 2020, 11:36:19 AM
Just reading about Sky apparently planning to use CGI fans at behind closed door fixtures. You have to laugh at this pointless circus.The Sty will finally get a full house every week
Post by: sid1964 on May 01, 2020, 11:36:34 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 01, 2020, 11:48:44 AM
Post by: andyh on May 01, 2020, 11:55:18 AM
From the GuardainWhat a load of old shit, on many levels - not you aev, the story.
"Premier League clubs have invested in coronavirus testing machines that can turn around results in two and a half hours as they gear up towards finding a way to complete the season. The league is overseeing the initiative and it is understood that some clubs in the Championship have also purchased the machines, which cost £36,000 and are readily available.
The machines can test only one person every two and a half hours, meaning that clubs could realistically test seven employees each day with them. That, along with the cost, is probably why there is little demand for them from the NHS – whose test results take longer to return."
We have already established that as many as 300 people are involved in putting on a match. If each club does half that would leave over 100 tests per team, with 7 or 8 a day, it would take an age to test everyone. And it has to be done multiple times.
It also stinks to high heaven if these are available and football is the only set of fuckers who are able to afford them, when there are care homes who would kill for one of them.
And finally, if these magic machines are available, and are expensive, I seem to recall the fuckers in government saying ‘whatever it takes’....so,why arent these being rolled out to areas where they would literally be lifesavers?
So much cuntishness in this story it needs to be in the c*** thread.
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 11:58:25 AM
I actually think the mad fkrs are going to play the games.
Post by: olaftab on May 01, 2020, 12:02:19 PM
I think there will definitely be behind closed doors games, but it seems more likley that that will be the start of next season and not the end of this.Yes agree. Let's forget about restart bollocks and concentrate on next season. Football owes this to what's happening around us. Deaths by the thousands, redundancies all around with possible one million additional jobless from all sectors combined by mid summer and foodbanks running short not being able to feed thousands and thousands of vulnerable people. Football is not really that important. End the season now so that uncertainty is not prolonged and Clubs can deal with all that it brings. Find a way to resolve the League positions and promotions and relegations etc and if that means the Villa get relegated I am ok with that as it's really not that big an issue when people are dying.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 01, 2020, 01:00:13 PM
You'd imagine Christian Purslow would be all over this.
100%
Allegedly it would only take one club to not agree to neutral venues, but in this case it’s a a”whole group”
What do you think will come out of the meeting today - anything significant or will it simply kick the can down the road until we know the government's plan next week?
Be the same hyper bs that comes out. Sure it will be along the lines of the clubs reiterated their full aim is to complete the season. We will do so with guidance from the government blah blah blah
Post by: paul_e on May 01, 2020, 02:03:49 PM
I think there will definitely be behind closed doors games, but it seems more likley that that will be the start of next season and not the end of this.Yes agree. Let's forget about restart bollocks and concentrate on next season. Football owes this to what's happening around us. Deaths by the thousands, redundancies all around with possible one million additional jobless from all sectors combined by mid summer and foodbanks running short not being able to feed thousands and thousands of vulnerable people. Football is not really that important. End the season now so that uncertainty is not prolonged and Clubs can deal with all that it brings. Find a way to resolve the League positions and promotions and relegations etc and if that means the Villa get relegated I am ok with that as it's really not that big an issue when people are dying.
Yep, that's been my stance all, I don't like games behind closed dors but it's a better alternative than completely cancelling all games for 18 months. My issue has always been that the rules for all games need to be consistent throughout the season. Closed games next season, for the entire season, I can accept, changing the rules to allow them to finish this season I can't.
Post by: Hillbilly on May 01, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
Post by: Chipsticks on May 01, 2020, 02:11:37 PM
One thing nobody's talked about is that validity of results has already been massively skewed by the VAR 'experiment'. I genuinely think it makes sense to write this season off and work on getting everything in good nick for the start of the next season (which may be later than August).
Post by: chrisw1 on May 01, 2020, 03:01:15 PM
£36k for 7 tests per day when we've just reached 100k nationally per day with thousands of test at home kits already sent out? Whatever it takes doen't mean pissing money up the wall. There are approximately 21,000 care homes in the uk. Do you really think that machines that can do 7 tests per day is the best way of spending £756m in the fight against this virus?From the GuardainWhat a load of old shit, on many levels - not you aev, the story.
"Premier League clubs have invested in coronavirus testing machines that can turn around results in two and a half hours as they gear up towards finding a way to complete the season. The league is overseeing the initiative and it is understood that some clubs in the Championship have also purchased the machines, which cost £36,000 and are readily available.
The machines can test only one person every two and a half hours, meaning that clubs could realistically test seven employees each day with them. That, along with the cost, is probably why there is little demand for them from the NHS – whose test results take longer to return."
We have already established that as many as 300 people are involved in putting on a match. If each club does half that would leave over 100 tests per team, with 7 or 8 a day, it would take an age to test everyone. And it has to be done multiple times.
It also stinks to high heaven if these are available and football is the only set of fuckers who are able to afford them, when there are care homes who would kill for one of them.
And finally, if these magic machines are available, and are expensive, I seem to recall the fuckers in government saying ‘whatever it takes’....so,why arent these being rolled out to areas where they would literally be lifesavers?
So much cuntishness in this story it needs to be in the c*** thread.
Post by: David_Nab on May 01, 2020, 03:01:48 PM
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 03:17:53 PM
Prem league meeting over , seems they still want to finish the season and have noted Lyon threatening legal action in France
If I was a club that was potentially disadvantaged by playing behind doors, I would also be investigating legal options.
You'd think whatever happnes, lawyers will be invovled somewhere.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 01, 2020, 04:44:51 PM
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 04:52:07 PM
I am surprised the likes of Norwich, Villa, Bournemouth & West Ham aren't starting to show signs of desent in these meetings. I guess they want / need the money more than PL safety.
I reckon there has to be behind closed doors surely?
Post by: Lsvilla on May 01, 2020, 05:17:14 PM
Dissent you mean ? Yes I would think so too. Present a United front whilst the can is kicked down the road a bit sure but behind the scenes I imagine (and hope) they’re playing merry hell at being potentially disadvantaged so much with so much at stake.I am surprised the likes of Norwich, Villa, Bournemouth & West Ham aren't starting to show signs of desent in these meetings. I guess they want / need the money more than PL safety.
I reckon there has to be behind closed doors surely?
Post by: LostInMunich on May 01, 2020, 05:28:51 PM
The main expense for most of the PL clubs is player salaries. If they could cut those salaries, they'd be under less pressure to deliver on the remaining fixtures.
Post by: David_Nab on May 01, 2020, 05:35:48 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on May 01, 2020, 05:44:47 PM
In addition:
Players must arrive at training grounds in kit and wear masks at all times.
They must not shower or eat on the premises. If clubs want to provide players with food, it must be delivered as a takeaway to players' cars.
Only essential medical treatment would be allowed, with all medical staff in full PPE.
All meetings and reviews must take place virtually and off-site.
So essentially a team sports training will consist of players running round in masks and keeping their distances and they would have to go and queue at an NHS Site for testing.
Post by: Legion on May 01, 2020, 05:46:20 PM
Post by: nick harper on May 01, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
Imagine being relegated following a home game at an empty Emirates. I can’t believe any club in the same position would find that acceptable.
Post by: Des Little on May 01, 2020, 05:51:32 PM
Post by: Villafirst on May 01, 2020, 05:56:01 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 01, 2020, 05:57:44 PM
The bottom 6 or 7 must be discussing the implications but keeping their powder dry at the moment to see if the whole thing falls flat for any number of the reasons already discussed.
Imagine being relegated following a home game at an empty Emirates. I can’t believe any club in the same position would find that acceptable.
Perhaps but even if they complain its 6 /14 they don't have the numbers..the clubs in the middle of league have nothing to lose so will go with anything if it gets them their TV money
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 05:58:00 PM
The Premier League have to present their case to the Government. Hopefully it gets thrown out.
The government appear to be falling over themselves to “placate the masses”.
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 06:00:01 PM
The bottom 6 or 7 must be discussing the implications but keeping their powder dry at the moment to see if the whole thing falls flat for any number of the reasons already discussed.
Imagine being relegated following a home game at an empty Emirates. I can’t believe any club in the same position would find that acceptable.
Perhaps but even if they complain its 6 /14 they don't have the numbers..the clubs in the middle of league have nothing to lose so will go with anything if it gets them their TV money
And being cynical, Man Utd would love to see us get relegated and get our best player on the cheap.
Post by: montague on May 01, 2020, 06:02:59 PM
If training is resumed before social distancing rules are relaxed, BBC Sport understands players will be tested for coronavirus twice a week and would be screened for symptoms every day. All tests would be carried out by health professionals at a drive-through NHS testing facility that each club would have access to. Training grounds will be optimised for social distancing and high hygiene levels.
Test shouldn't be given to healthy athletes until all frontline workers and care home residents are being tested, all bus drivers and essential shopworkers are being tested, all vulnerable people with symptoms are being tested. That would be obscene. These guys are probably at less risk of dying from this than almost anyone and should be at the back of the queue.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 01, 2020, 06:13:32 PM
I understand the absurdity of some of the suggestions above, but the testing thing is a bit of a red herring. By the time they are looking at serious training / games, the test capacity will probably be over 200k per day and I'm sure there will be plenty enough for all the workers you mention. The tests for the players at that point would be a drop in the ocean.If training is resumed before social distancing rules are relaxed, BBC Sport understands players will be tested for coronavirus twice a week and would be screened for symptoms every day. All tests would be carried out by health professionals at a drive-through NHS testing facility that each club would have access to. Training grounds will be optimised for social distancing and high hygiene levels.
Test shouldn't be given to healthy athletes until all frontline workers and care home residents are being tested, all bus drivers and essential shopworkers are being tested, all vulnerable people with symptoms are being tested. That would be obscene. These guys are probably at less risk of dying from this than almost anyone and should be at the back of the queue.
Post by: aev on May 01, 2020, 06:39:41 PM
Post by: Damo70 on May 01, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
It's nonsensical.
Totally nonsensical. I was one of the first people to criticise Karren Brady for jumping in with two feet and suggesting the season be scrapped the moment games were suspended. It seemed a premature knee jerk reaction with a large dose of self preservation involved but it turns out she was right.
Post by: Legion on May 01, 2020, 06:43:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 01, 2020, 06:44:18 PM
If training is resumed before social distancing rules are relaxed, BBC Sport understands players will be tested for coronavirus twice a week and would be screened for symptoms every day. All tests would be carried out by health professionals at a drive-through NHS testing facility that each club would have access to. Training grounds will be optimised for social distancing and high hygiene levels.
In addition:
Players must arrive at training grounds in kit and wear masks at all times.
They must not shower or eat on the premises. If clubs want to provide players with food, it must be delivered as a takeaway to players' cars.
Only essential medical treatment would be allowed, with all medical staff in full PPE.
All meetings and reviews must take place virtually and off-site.
So essentially a team sports training will consist of players running round in masks and keeping their distances and they would have to go and queue at an NHS Site for testing.
They’re missing the point that if you actually want to play the game then there will be physical contact. It’s either safe or it’s not. If it’s not then stop with these stupid ideas.
Post by: CT Villan on May 01, 2020, 06:52:52 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/h7jqgQF/SkyCGI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h7jqgQF)
Post by: curiousorange on May 01, 2020, 07:15:20 PM
Post by: montague on May 01, 2020, 07:50:00 PM
Playing socially distanced football in masks is an insane idea. Either the game's ready to resume as is, or it's not the same game. But we know what'll happen - the Premier League will convince the government it'll all be fine, and the government will believe them.
Just have one big penalty shoot out and be done with it
Post by: andyh on May 01, 2020, 08:02:18 PM
Sent home to isolate, rest of squad to continue training.
Post by: curiousorange on May 01, 2020, 08:16:24 PM
Playing socially distanced football in masks is an insane idea. Either the game's ready to resume as is, or it's not the same game. But we know what'll happen - the Premier League will convince the government it'll all be fine, and the government will believe them.
Just have one big penalty shoot out and be done with it
*calls Jed Steer to the thread*
Post by: Somniloquism on May 01, 2020, 08:27:38 PM
I understand the absurdity of some of the suggestions above, but the testing thing is a bit of a red herring. By the time they are looking at serious training / games, the test capacity will probably be over 200k per day and I'm sure there will be plenty enough for all the workers you mention. The tests for the players at that point would be a drop in the ocean.If training is resumed before social distancing rules are relaxed, BBC Sport understands players will be tested for coronavirus twice a week and would be screened for symptoms every day. All tests would be carried out by health professionals at a drive-through NHS testing facility that each club would have access to. Training grounds will be optimised for social distancing and high hygiene levels.
Test shouldn't be given to healthy athletes until all frontline workers and care home residents are being tested, all bus drivers and essential shopworkers are being tested, all vulnerable people with symptoms are being tested. That would be obscene. These guys are probably at less risk of dying from this than almost anyone and should be at the back of the queue.
However the players would still need to go and get a test at an NHS approved testing site according to the report from the BBC. Some of them can't even be bothered to be around for dope tests, can you see them queueing up with loads of others "after a hard days training"?
I would also like to know if all this is for training, what is it going to be like for a full match. Can you see a player who is used to loogeying and rocket snotting to clear sinuses being able to run around at full pelt in a face mask for 90 minutes.
Matches now will have all the enthusiasm of an early preseason friendly with the energy they will be able to put in.
Post by: curiousorange on May 01, 2020, 08:32:39 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 01, 2020, 08:36:33 PM
Seems to me the top clubs are more desperate for the cash than the others
Void season and promoting to more it still floating about - seems most reasonable idea to me
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 01, 2020, 08:38:57 PM
The Premier League have to present their case to the Government. Hopefully it gets thrown out.
Makes me wish we'd still have David Cameron as PM. He'd be making sure that both his clubs stayed up.
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 01, 2020, 08:47:35 PM
'' Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world''
Funny is the only way you can describe this as well as being downright sad and desperate, its about as honest as saying you've carried out 120k virus tests and meeting the target when in reality you've got nowhere near it.
The season is over, finished weeks ago, its done, forced cancellation due to extreme circumstances and for goodness sake somebody whack that ugly twat on the BBC that keeps saying, '' Football coming back whether you like it or not'', sounds like a threat to me.
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 01, 2020, 08:48:42 PM
The Premier League have to present their case to the Government. Hopefully it gets thrown out.
Makes me wish we'd still have David Cameron as PM. He'd be making sure that both his clubs stayed up.
Problem is he'd want a referendum to decide.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 01, 2020, 09:11:01 PM
Post by: The Edge on May 01, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
The whole thing gets more ridiculous by the day. The integrity of the game is in tatters.Absolutely. People are still dying from this horrible virus can you imagine the fallout if someone was to contract the virus at one of these behind closed door games? It's a risk and it's one they should not even think about taking until the virus has been defeated. The whole idea reeks of money over safety.
Post by: andyh on May 01, 2020, 11:14:08 PM
The whole thing gets more ridiculous by the day. The integrity of the game is in tatters.More like the integrity of the fuckers in charge of it.
Post by: Steve67 on May 01, 2020, 11:38:27 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 01, 2020, 11:40:52 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 01, 2020, 11:47:45 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 01, 2020, 11:48:42 PM
I'm not sure we will ever stop the likes of Man United, Liverpool and Tottenham from having that air of entitlement. We can add Man City to that list since they became rich too.
They can be as entitled as they like but they aren't going to win many matches if the other teams won't play them.
Post by: WassallVillain on May 01, 2020, 11:51:38 PM
1j how can you enforce social distancing in the wider public and ignore it on a football field. Within hours there will be groups playing in the park and getting £30 fines
2) how many neutral venues will be needed if championship and premier league are to be completed.
3) how can they contemplate continuing a competition with different rules to pre Covid such as 5 subs, behind closed doors, neutral venues and no VAR. I’ve no real problem with BCD for new season or this if at home venue.
Post by: Steve67 on May 01, 2020, 11:54:58 PM
I'm not sure we will ever stop the likes of Man United, Liverpool and Tottenham from having that air of entitlement. We can add Man City to that list since they became rich too.
They can be as entitled as they like but they aren't going to win many matches if the other teams won't play them.
I agree with you Dave.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 12:05:55 AM
They think somehow this industry is going to return to business as usual with inflated salaries, egos and sense of self importance.
It isn’t safe to play and everyone with any sense knows that and also knows it won’t be anytime soon.
Once they put the idea of completing this season any time Soon behind them, they can start contingency planing for start dates to resume from September onwards.
Next is a renegotiation of the contractual arrangements which will require huge compromises.
If they don’t work this out then as DW says, they will fragment.
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 12:17:01 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 02, 2020, 12:20:00 AM
I hope our solicitors are ready to go the second way decision which adversely affects us is made. I also hope the Premier League are well aware of that and it scares them enough to persuade them not to fuck us over.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 02, 2020, 01:32:46 AM
What the hell about the 400+ outstanding in the efl? They going to be neutral to restrict travel?
If the EFL cannot be completed for winners/relegation then what’s the point in forcing to complete the prem?
Same has to happen down the pyramid
Post by: adrenachrome on May 02, 2020, 01:39:44 AM
People seem more confident about how this will affect Villa than I am. The Ligue Un decision is a warning. I can see seventeen clubs above the relegation zone voting for a system that fucks us over. Even if a few don't I can't see a majority voting to void the season entirely, nor can I see them voting to expand the league and therefore dilute their income.
I hope our solicitors are ready to go the second way decision which adversely affects us is made. I also hope the Premier League are well aware of that and it scares them enough to persuade them not to fuck us over.
It seems that 10 clubs are threatening to vote against the restart proposal, and that 14 are needed to defeat it. The meeting will be on Friday. The government exit strategy, which will be announced on Thursday, will be a key part of the decision.
There would be 3 neutral PL grounds.
The major argument of the "Big Six" is that voting to curtail the season could set a precedent which would lead to the 2020/21 campaign also being scrapped.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 02, 2020, 01:45:48 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 02:05:18 AM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 02, 2020, 02:14:22 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 03:29:44 AM
Let me get this right. It would take 14 clubs to void the league but only seven to restart it with all the closed doors/training camps and assorted nonsense?As you say, nonsense.
Post by: ROBBO on May 02, 2020, 07:24:11 AM
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 07:26:44 AM
The 5 tests to ease lockdown are subjective, and I reckon next week they will announce something with regards to elite sport.
The claim about integrity is silly really.The integrity of the league to finish by removing home advantage, removing crowds, potentially allowing more subs (that benefits the stronger squads), momentum lost, it is really a mini season that will have more in common with the next season than this one.
The PL have had plenty of opportunities to pour cold water on this but the noises coming out of each meeting in the media all seems to be of cautious optimism.
Madness.
Post by: OzVilla on May 02, 2020, 07:36:52 AM
I know 14 is the magic number to pass something but what if no proposals get to the 14 votes, will it be like Brexit where you just keep going back and forth until something gets 14+ votes?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 02, 2020, 07:52:15 AM
Post by: Mister E on May 02, 2020, 09:04:57 AM
- Let the self-styled 'Top 6' go off and join a new Euro League.
- Promote Leeds and the Bitters into a new English Premier League of 16.
- Start a new - slighter shorter - 2020-21 season in October.
- Promote top 2 of the new EPL into the Euro League at the end of each season, with the 2 lowest English teams in the Euro League dropping into the EPL.
Post by: Richard E on May 02, 2020, 09:08:25 AM
Here's a solution.
- Let the self-styled 'Top 6' go off and join a new Euro League.
- Promote Leeds and the Bitters into a new English Premier League of 16.
- Start a new - slighter shorter - 2020-21 season in October.
- Promote top 2 of the new EPL into the Euro League at the end of each season, with the 2 lowest English teams in the Euro League dropping into the EPL.
There’s no way participants in a European Super League are going to agree to the possibility of relegation.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 10:51:16 AM
Here's a solution.It's a solution, but the shittest one I've heard yet.
- Let the self-styled 'Top 6' go off and join a new Euro League.
- Promote Leeds and the Bitters into a new English Premier League of 16.
- Start a new - slighter shorter - 2020-21 season in October.
- Promote top 2 of the new EPL into the Euro League at the end of each season, with the 2 lowest English teams in the Euro League dropping into the EPL.
Post by: Damo70 on May 02, 2020, 11:05:04 AM
Post by: Damo70 on May 02, 2020, 11:06:46 AM
Here's a solution.It's a solution, but the shittest one I've heard yet.
- Let the self-styled 'Top 6' go off and join a new Euro League.
- Promote Leeds and the Bitters into a new English Premier League of 16.
- Start a new - slighter shorter - 2020-21 season in October.
- Promote top 2 of the new EPL into the Euro League at the end of each season, with the 2 lowest English teams in the Euro League dropping into the EPL.
It makes 'Numberwang' seem logical and sensible.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 02, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Post by: olaftab on May 02, 2020, 11:35:36 AM
It seems to me the government are very keen to get football going again and so I can’t imagine they will be doing anything to stop this happening. A few weeks ago they were having a go at the players over salaries, now they are coaxing them into a return.In times of doom and gloom the establishment has always encouraged ways and means to keep peasants occupied.
Madness.
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 02, 2020, 11:36:06 AM
It seems to me the government are very keen to get football going again and so I can’t imagine they will be doing anything to stop this happening. A few weeks ago they were having a go at the players over salaries, now they are coaxing them into a return.
The 5 tests to ease lockdown are subjective, and I reckon next week they will announce something with regards to elite sport.
The claim about integrity is silly really.The integrity of the league to finish by removing home advantage, removing crowds, potentially allowing more subs (that benefits the stronger squads), momentum lost, it is really a mini season that will have more in common with the next season than this one.
The PL have had plenty of opportunities to pour cold water on this but the noises coming out of each meeting in the media all seems to be of cautious optimism.
Madness.
There is a very definite picture building here, today the news seeping through is that the Tories want the lockdown finished by late May, just after the last bank holiday, apparently the PM is under massive pressure by the big beasts of the Tories, the so called donors to the party to get this lockdown finished at any cost, this is now the defining moment, this is the time when life takes a backwards step to money, this is what separates us from most other countries, those at the top will have there way the rest of us are just cannon fodder, expect to see the daily death rate figure fiddled.
Of course this will then fall in line with the start of football in June, how convenient, have to say the Tories came to power on the vote of the Midland and Northern working class who for some reason rejected Labour, Boris is playing with fire here, if he gets this wrong regardless of his massive majority he will be gone.
Post by: olaftab on May 02, 2020, 11:40:26 AM
No they can fuck off and go and form another lower league. They must not be allowed back into English football structure. Any League if formed must be denied the feeder mechanism to keep it credible.[/b]
- Promote top 2 of the new EPL into the Euro League at the end of each season, with the 2 lowest English teams in the Euro League dropping into the EPL.
[/list]
By the way, with respect, it is an overall crap proposal from you. [/list]
Post by: The Edge on May 02, 2020, 11:44:33 AM
Scrap this season and start afresh in August.I would agree but only if covid19 has been beaten. My own idea is to restart 20/21, when safe to do so and all points carried over from the 19/20 season. Outstanding games from 19/20 to be played first to even up the fixtures. Nobody gains or loses then.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
No they can fuck off and go and form another lower league. They must not be allowed back into English football structure. Any League if formed must be denied the feeder mechanism to keep it credible.[/b]
- Promote top 2 of the new EPL into the Euro League at the end of each season, with the 2 lowest English teams in the Euro League dropping into the EPL.
[/list]
By the way, with respect, it is an overall crap proposal from you. [/list]
You mean like the Premier League did?
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 02, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 02, 2020, 11:56:14 AM
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 02, 2020, 12:11:28 PM
Well if in the interests of "integrity" we end up playing out this mockery of the very definition of the word, the name of each and every club that votes for it needs to be public knowledge. We can then forever make our own judgments as to what they were actually voting for.
Indeed and hypothetically let say if after the first game Jack got Covid symptoms and was unable to complete the remaining fixtures, which would be the case, Villa gets relegated without its best player and Captain, we know just who to point the finger at.
Post by: Billy Walker on May 02, 2020, 12:28:53 PM
Here's a solution.
- Let the self-styled 'Top 6' go off and join a new Euro League.
- Promote Leeds and the Bitters into a new English Premier League of 16.
- Start a new - slighter shorter - 2020-21 season in October.
- Promote top 2 of the new EPL into the Euro League at the end of each season, with the 2 lowest English teams in the Euro League dropping into the EPL.
In that scenario, what's stopping billionaires setting up a whole new international league system to rival that self-declared "Super League"? If a group of people attempt to close up shop, you simply open up a new shop next door and offer a better product. Plastic fans and TV audiences will follow the money.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 02, 2020, 12:49:32 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 02, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
Interesting point, so what happens if as a result of the restart of the football season, a player, a member of the ground staff or anybody else in connection with these games and football directly gets Covid 19, possibly even dies, I would put the same point to the government, what happens if they start easing the lockdown when the death rate is still to high and it spikes, surely there must be a case to be answered through the courts and boy what a case that would be, is there such a thing as state murder.
The Government will set the ground rules under which football can restart in relation to measures being imposed on businesses and the public. The Government will not be saying you must restart football. The decision on restarting the leagues is down to those that control those leagues. It appears that the PL cannot force clubs to start playing again and it is down to the clubs to vote. Players are employed by the clubs and as an employee, like any other worker elsewhere, they are covered by health and safety at work regulations. If the clubs forced players to play, it would be the club that could be liable. Simon Jordan mentioned corporate manslaughter in an interview the other day. It is nothing to do with the Government, however much people want to pin things on them.
It was interesting that players have started to mention their fears of safety and ultimately, I think it will be down to them as to whether football restarts. Nobody has mentioned about footballers going on strike, which could be the thing that finishes the season.
All people with a stake in making the decisions are keeping their powder dry regarding where they stand but I believe in the next 2 weeks there will be a growing drip-feeding of negative comments coming out about restarting football.
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 01:04:34 PM
No satire would ever do this omnishambles justice. Mind boggling stupidity by organisations, desperate to protect their wealth and power.
There will be a film made about this one day. It won't be a comedy.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 01:12:19 PM
Just listen to yourself. Why doe this have to be about the Tories? Kier Starmer has been pushing for an exit stategy for 2 weeks now. The problem with politics is that peole who are so massively invested in it and intrenched in their position will seek any opportunity to spout their rubbish, to create a phantom to fit their own agenda. Just leave it out of football threads please comrade.It seems to me the government are very keen to get football going again and so I can’t imagine they will be doing anything to stop this happening. A few weeks ago they were having a go at the players over salaries, now they are coaxing them into a return.
The 5 tests to ease lockdown are subjective, and I reckon next week they will announce something with regards to elite sport.
The claim about integrity is silly really.The integrity of the league to finish by removing home advantage, removing crowds, potentially allowing more subs (that benefits the stronger squads), momentum lost, it is really a mini season that will have more in common with the next season than this one.
The PL have had plenty of opportunities to pour cold water on this but the noises coming out of each meeting in the media all seems to be of cautious optimism.
Madness.
There is a very definite picture building here, today the news seeping through is that the Tories want the lockdown finished by late May, just after the last bank holiday, apparently the PM is under massive pressure by the big beasts of the Tories, the so called donors to the party to get this lockdown finished at any cost, this is now the defining moment, this is the time when life takes a backwards step to money, this is what separates us from most other countries, those at the top will have there way the rest of us are just cannon fodder, expect to see the daily death rate figure fiddled.
Of course this will then fall in line with the start of football in June, how convenient, have to say the Tories came to power on the vote of the Midland and Northern working class who for some reason rejected Labour, Boris is playing with fire here, if he gets this wrong regardless of his massive majority he will be gone.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 01:22:43 PM
Just listen to yourself. Why doe this have to be about the Tories? Kier Starmer has been pushing for an exit stategy for 2 weeks now. The problem with politics is that peole who are so massively invested in it and intrenched in their position will seek any opportunity to spout their rubbish, to create a phantom to fit their own agenda. Just leave it out of football threads please comrade.It seems to me the government are very keen to get football going again and so I can’t imagine they will be doing anything to stop this happening. A few weeks ago they were having a go at the players over salaries, now they are coaxing them into a return.
The 5 tests to ease lockdown are subjective, and I reckon next week they will announce something with regards to elite sport.
The claim about integrity is silly really.The integrity of the league to finish by removing home advantage, removing crowds, potentially allowing more subs (that benefits the stronger squads), momentum lost, it is really a mini season that will have more in common with the next season than this one.
The PL have had plenty of opportunities to pour cold water on this but the noises coming out of each meeting in the media all seems to be of cautious optimism.
Madness.
There is a very definite picture building here, today the news seeping through is that the Tories want the lockdown finished by late May, just after the last bank holiday, apparently the PM is under massive pressure by the big beasts of the Tories, the so called donors to the party to get this lockdown finished at any cost, this is now the defining moment, this is the time when life takes a backwards step to money, this is what separates us from most other countries, those at the top will have there way the rest of us are just cannon fodder, expect to see the daily death rate figure fiddled.
Of course this will then fall in line with the start of football in June, how convenient, have to say the Tories came to power on the vote of the Midland and Northern working class who for some reason rejected Labour, Boris is playing with fire here, if he gets this wrong regardless of his massive majority he will be gone.
You absolutely cannot leave politics out of any aspect of the current situation. As has been said previous, getting the Premier League back is part of the bread & circuses approach that has worked so far for Boris Johnson in everything.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 01:39:13 PM
Post by: ROBBO on May 02, 2020, 01:40:42 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 01:43:09 PM
Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
Said nobody, ever.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 01:48:35 PM
It's essentially what comrade Bo is inferring above.Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
Said nobody, ever.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 01:50:11 PM
It's essentially what comrade Bo is inferring above.Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
Said nobody, ever.
Obviously the view from the top of Mt Moral is different from what the rest of us can see.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 01:51:40 PM
Do you actually read posts before you jump in as arbiter? His inference is there for all to see.It's essentially what comrade Bo is inferring above.Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
Said nobody, ever.
Obviously the view from the top of Mt Moral is different from what the rest of us can see.
Post by: paul_e on May 02, 2020, 01:51:44 PM
Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
The bold bit just isn't true, Starmer is pressing for him to make public the mechanism by which the lockdown can be ended and the longer term plans that will be in place to ensure we limit the risk of a 2nd wave. Again though, this is just a chance for you to slag off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you by acting like you understand their views better than they do.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 01:54:33 PM
No it's not Paul. Are you trying to understand my views better than I do?Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
The bold bit just isn't true, Starmer is pressing for him to make public the mechanism by which the lockdown can be ended and the longer term plans that will be in place to ensure we limit the risk of a 2nd wave. Again though, this is just a chance for you to slag off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you by acting like you understand their views better than they do.
Post by: garyellis on May 02, 2020, 01:58:04 PM
An exit strategy does not equate to abandoning the current restrictions in place quicker than Boris would want to.Just listen to yourself. Why doe this have to be about the Tories? Kier Starmer has been pushing for an exit stategy for 2 weeks now. The problem with politics is that peole who are so massively invested in it and intrenched in their position will seek any opportunity to spout their rubbish, to create a phantom to fit their own agenda. Just leave it out of football threads please comrade.It seems to me the government are very keen to get football going again and so I can’t imagine they will be doing anything to stop this happening. A few weeks ago they were having a go at the players over salaries, now they are coaxing them into a return.
The 5 tests to ease lockdown are subjective, and I reckon next week they will announce something with regards to elite sport.
The claim about integrity is silly really.The integrity of the league to finish by removing home advantage, removing crowds, potentially allowing more subs (that benefits the stronger squads), momentum lost, it is really a mini season that will have more in common with the next season than this one.
The PL have had plenty of opportunities to pour cold water on this but the noises coming out of each meeting in the media all seems to be of cautious optimism.
Madness.
There is a very definite picture building here, today the news seeping through is that the Tories want the lockdown finished by late May, just after the last bank holiday, apparently the PM is under massive pressure by the big beasts of the Tories, the so called donors to the party to get this lockdown finished at any cost, this is now the defining moment, this is the time when life takes a backwards step to money, this is what separates us from most other countries, those at the top will have there way the rest of us are just cannon fodder, expect to see the daily death rate figure fiddled.
Of course this will then fall in line with the start of football in June, how convenient, have to say the Tories came to power on the vote of the Midland and Northern working class who for some reason rejected Labour, Boris is playing with fire here, if he gets this wrong regardless of his massive majority he will be gone.
It's the how not the when.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 01:58:05 PM
No it's not Paul. Are you trying to understand my views better than I do?Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
The bold bit just isn't true, Starmer is pressing for him to make public the mechanism by which the lockdown can be ended and the longer term plans that will be in place to ensure we limit the risk of a 2nd wave. Again though, this is just a chance for you to slag off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you by acting like you understand their views better than they do.
Your last two posts seem to have a bit of double standards about them.
Post by: paul_e on May 02, 2020, 02:00:12 PM
No it's not Paul. Are you trying to understand my views better than I do?Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
The bold bit just isn't true, Starmer is pressing for him to make public the mechanism by which the lockdown can be ended and the longer term plans that will be in place to ensure we limit the risk of a 2nd wave. Again though, this is just a chance for you to slag off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you by acting like you understand their views better than they do.
You going to provide any evidence to back yourself up or just sulk again like usual?
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 02:13:58 PM
Evidence of what? That Bo brought up the Tories pushing for an end to lockdown and those at the top will have there way the rest of us are just cannon fodder in a discussion about the PL deciding whether to finish the season or not? Or that Stamer is trying to build a narrative that the Government were slow to lockdown, slow with PPE, slow to test and is laying the groundwork for him to be able to say they were slow to ease the lockdown if it suits his case to do so at a later date?No it's not Paul. Are you trying to understand my views better than I do?Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
The bold bit just isn't true, Starmer is pressing for him to make public the mechanism by which the lockdown can be ended and the longer term plans that will be in place to ensure we limit the risk of a 2nd wave. Again though, this is just a chance for you to slag off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you by acting like you understand their views better than they do.
You going to provide any evidence to back yourself up or just sulk again like usual?
The evidence of ther former is on the page before and the latter just seems like pretty a transparent strategy that I don't feel the need to provide evidence for.
I'm not a particulaly political person but it just irritates me when people bring it up in the way Bo did. I have not intention in getting in a debate with you about it, if I wanted to waste my life that way I'd spend more time in off topic letting you educate me about how much you know about everything.
Post by: walsall villain on May 02, 2020, 03:11:59 PM
Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.Starmer wants to know what measures are planned post lockdown so that these can be discussed cross party. Don’t think he is putting pressure on the government to end the lockdown, where has that come from?
Post by: paul_e on May 02, 2020, 03:12:24 PM
Evidence of what? That Bo brought up the Tories pushing for an end to lockdown and those at the top will have there way the rest of us are just cannon fodder in a discussion about the PL deciding whether to finish the season or not? Or that Stamer is trying to build a narrative that the Government were slow to lockdown, slow with PPE, slow to test and is laying the groundwork for him to be able to say they were slow to ease the lockdown if it suits his case to do so at a later date?No it's not Paul. Are you trying to understand my views better than I do?Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
The bold bit just isn't true, Starmer is pressing for him to make public the mechanism by which the lockdown can be ended and the longer term plans that will be in place to ensure we limit the risk of a 2nd wave. Again though, this is just a chance for you to slag off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you by acting like you understand their views better than they do.
You going to provide any evidence to back yourself up or just sulk again like usual?
The evidence of ther former is on the page before and the latter just seems like pretty a transparent strategy that I don't feel the need to provide evidence for.
I'm not a particulaly political person but it just irritates me when people bring it up in the way Bo did. I have not intention in getting in a debate with you about it, if I wanted to waste my life that way I'd spend more time in off topic letting you educate me about how much you know about everything.
No, I don't think I know lots about everything, just more than you and I don't have to resort to claiming the moral high ground in every discussion so I don't have to answer to hide my lack of basic knowledge. ou do need to provide evidence though because otherwise it's a baseless opinion being presented as an obvious fact, something you've done regularly on this thread.
Post by: brentastonb6 on May 02, 2020, 03:13:57 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 02, 2020, 03:25:37 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 03:30:11 PM
You are so arrogant and condecending that it beggars belief. The forum is littered with your superiority and your lack of self awareness is staggering. This is why I try not get into discourse with you.Evidence of what? That Bo brought up the Tories pushing for an end to lockdown and those at the top will have there way the rest of us are just cannon fodder in a discussion about the PL deciding whether to finish the season or not? Or that Stamer is trying to build a narrative that the Government were slow to lockdown, slow with PPE, slow to test and is laying the groundwork for him to be able to say they were slow to ease the lockdown if it suits his case to do so at a later date?No it's not Paul. Are you trying to understand my views better than I do?Yet Boris is being far more cautious about ending the lockdown than many on all sides would like. He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so. But this doesn't feed into the leftish narrative. But yeah, if the PL comes back it will all be down to Boris and his agenda to fuck over the masses.
The bold bit just isn't true, Starmer is pressing for him to make public the mechanism by which the lockdown can be ended and the longer term plans that will be in place to ensure we limit the risk of a 2nd wave. Again though, this is just a chance for you to slag off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you by acting like you understand their views better than they do.
You going to provide any evidence to back yourself up or just sulk again like usual?
The evidence of ther former is on the page before and the latter just seems like pretty a transparent strategy that I don't feel the need to provide evidence for.
I'm not a particulaly political person but it just irritates me when people bring it up in the way Bo did. I have not intention in getting in a debate with you about it, if I wanted to waste my life that way I'd spend more time in off topic letting you educate me about how much you know about everything.
No, I don't think I know lots about everything, just more than you and I don't have to resort to claiming the moral high ground in every discussion so I don't have to answer to hide my lack of basic knowledge. ou do need to provide evidence though because otherwise it's a baseless opinion being presented as an obvious fact, something you've done regularly on this thread.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 02, 2020, 03:33:39 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 03:35:33 PM
He said, pompously.If I said it how I wanted to I'd be banned.
Post by: paul_e on May 02, 2020, 03:44:26 PM
You are so arrogant and condecending that it beggars belief. The forum is littered with your superiority and your lack of self awareness is staggering. This is why I try not get into discourse with you.
It was intended to be arrogant and condescending (you really should spell check by the way) because I knew you wouldn't actually answer. Again, rather than sulking how about you explain why you think Starmer is planning to say the government were too slow to lift the lockdown. Whilst you're at it you can also explain how safety concerns of restarting football too soon is both a valid viewpoint but also not, but only if you're a Villa fan and can be accused of wanting to void the season to avoid relegation.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 02, 2020, 03:54:33 PM
He said, pompously.If I said it how I wanted to I'd be banned.
You're stating false information and then going in a huff when that's pointed out to you.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 02, 2020, 04:04:53 PM
Now they are awaiting govt guidelines before deciding what to do next. They are selective when they want to be or are they conveniently waiting for something to hide behind when the inevitable sh-t hits the fan and money is involved?
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 04:05:06 PM
I've never said safety concerns aren't a valid reason not to restart football, I've only ever said it's reasonable for the PL to look into the options. And yes, I've questioned whether Villa's particular predicament has influenced some posters views on whether the season should be scrapped or not. I don't think this is such a stretch given that some acknowledge it and in the same way I have no doubt it is influencing views being expressed on Liverpool, Leeds and West Brom forums.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
Unlike you to get involved, but go on then what false information have I posted? I'm guessing the pressure from Starmer bit? If so then fine, you may see it differently. I've explained how I see it. It wasn't a dig at Starmer, I like him and have thought he should be Labour leader for some time now. It was just a point on my general comment about Bo blaming everything on the Tories, which I didn't think was necessary or relevant. The decision first and foremost comes from the PL and the clubs - it is they who should bear any criticism in the first instance. When that decision is made the Government may or may not allow it - a decision I expect will be made on the basis of scientific advice, not some nefarious desire to make the rich richer and use the masses as cannon fodder.He said, pompously.If I said it how I wanted to I'd be banned.
You're stating false information and then going in a huff when that's pointed out to you.
Post by: paul_e on May 02, 2020, 04:37:48 PM
I've already explained everything you've asked above. I believe Starmer is laying the groundwork and yes it's an opinion. There would be very few posts on this forum if every one had to be backed by hard evidence.
I've never said safety concerns aren't a valid reason not to restart football, I've only ever said it's reasonable for the PL to look into the options. And yes, I've questioned whether Villa's particular predicament has influenced some posters views on whether the season should be scrapped or not. I don't think this is such a stretch given that some acknowledge it and in the same way I have no doubt it is influencing views being expressed on Liverpool, Leeds and West Brom forums.
So you don't see any difference between:
Quote
I believe Starmer is laying the groundwork and yes it's an opinionand
Quote
He's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so
The latter isn't presented as an opinion and it certainly isn't presented as something that you think may happen in the future.
This is exactly the same trick you pulled with the bias thing, it may be true that people are looking at things from a different perspective but that's the same as accusing people of ignoring legitimate solutions because they don't think they work out as well as others. I highly doubt there's anyone on here that wouldn't love for the virus to have cleared up in a couple of weeks and to be back watching games so the season could finish properly.
This is where you've got things backwards, any rule changes that need to happen to allow the season to finish are either good, bad or neutral for all the teams, there's nothing wrong with clubs or fans not liking the bad options and that shouldn't need to be acknowledged.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 04:45:40 PM
An opinion isn't a trick, it's an opinion. The forum is full of them, it's kind of the point.
Cheers, it's been fun.
Post by: David_Nab on May 02, 2020, 04:49:23 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 04:51:27 PM
According to David Ornstein from The Athetic we are one of the clubs who have agreed to the neutral venue option , the other teams near us all object ( Norwich not made view known)I'd love to know the thinking behind this. Maybe a worry regading a points per game outcome?
Post by: olaftab on May 02, 2020, 04:52:55 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 02, 2020, 05:00:37 PM
Liverpool vs Leeds at Old Trafford whoever cries the most wins.
Post by: paul_e on May 02, 2020, 05:05:38 PM
Noted. I'll expect you to put 'in my opinion' or provide hard evidence on everything you post from now on.
An opinion isn't a trick, it's an opinion. The forum is full of them, it's kind of the point.
Cheers, it's been fun.
Fucking hell, it's like talking to a 5 year old ...
QuoteI believe Starmer is laying the groundworkandQuoteHe's also coming under pressure from Starmer to do so
Top one is written as opinion, bottom one is written as fact, if you can't see how they're different then you're not even as smart as I assumed.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 02, 2020, 05:09:53 PM
Post by: Richard E on May 02, 2020, 05:13:45 PM
There's an easy solution to this whole sordid affair.
Liverpool vs Leeds at Old Trafford whoever cries the most wins.
Leeds would take more tears.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 02, 2020, 05:23:55 PM
Post by: The Edge on May 02, 2020, 05:46:08 PM
There's an easy solution to this whole sordid affair.Quality comment !!!
Liverpool vs Leeds at Old Trafford whoever cries the most wins.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 02, 2020, 06:21:25 PM
According to David Ornstein from The Athetic we are one of the clubs who have agreed to the neutral venue option , the other teams near us all object ( Norwich not made view known)
Seems a strange position to take considering we’ll lose home advantage for 6 games whereas for our rivals it will be 4 or 5.
Post by: Drummond on May 02, 2020, 06:46:20 PM
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 06:53:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 02, 2020, 07:18:32 PM
Post by: garyellis on May 02, 2020, 07:23:00 PM
It depends what the alternatives they discussed were. Keeping the standings as they are, Points per game, or any other 'on paper' solution fucks us over a lot more than anyone else in the bottom 6 because of our game in hand.Perhaps we have agreed to complete the fixtures this way:
a) if possible and
B) no relegation given the inconsistency and disadvantage to us
I suspect there is a long way to go on this yet before we know the full facts.
Post by: john2710 on May 02, 2020, 07:39:18 PM
The PL will want to finish the season / keep money from Sky. The integrity of the product is irrelevant as long as the money keeps coming.
The majority of PL & EFL clubs will want to finish the season / money.
The majority of fans will want to watch their team play, until they realise it's a shit product without a crowd.
The numbers in hospital & the number of new daily infections need to be much lower before we should think of restarting anything.
But I would be stunned if they didn't find a way to force this to happen.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 07:44:30 PM
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 07:59:44 PM
The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 08:12:43 PM
Because they are desperate.The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 02, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention serfdom earlier. The "for that much money a week they should be expected to..." argument will move from 'play three games in 8 days', to 'risk contracting a disease that could kill them or their loved ones'.
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 08:21:27 PM
The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention serfdom earlier. The "for that much money a week they should be expected to..." argument will move from 'play three games in 8 days', to 'risk contracting a disease that could kill them or their loved ones'.
I think they will be told (subtlety of course) that their wages are dependant upon TV contracts.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 02, 2020, 08:27:59 PM
The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention serfdom earlier. The "for that much money a week they should be expected to..." argument will move from 'play three games in 8 days', to 'risk contracting a disease that could kill them or their loved ones'.
I think they will be told (subtlety of course) that their wages are dependant upon TV contracts.
Which is utterly meaningless unless that's written into their contracts, which I bet you what you like it won't be, which is why the PL is squirming at the moment.
Post by: LukeJames on May 02, 2020, 08:28:58 PM
I know next to nothing about this kind of thing but surely thats dependant on what was put in the original contract?The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention serfdom earlier. The "for that much money a week they should be expected to..." argument will move from 'play three games in 8 days', to 'risk contracting a disease that could kill them or their loved ones'.
I think they will be told (subtlety of course) that their wages are dependant upon TV contracts.
Of course though, fuck knows what was put in the contracts when they were signed.
Post by: john2710 on May 02, 2020, 08:35:12 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 08:42:01 PM
A simple question, can you guarantee the safety of The players in relation to the Covid virus?
If the answer is anything but yes, then game over.
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 09:07:34 PM
I know next to nothing about this kind of thing but surely thats dependant on what was put in the original contract?The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention serfdom earlier. The "for that much money a week they should be expected to..." argument will move from 'play three games in 8 days', to 'risk contracting a disease that could kill them or their loved ones'.
I think they will be told (subtlety of course) that their wages are dependant upon TV contracts.
Of course though, fuck knows what was put in the contracts when they were signed.
Sorry , I meant new contracts and wages. Mind you there could well be appearance/performance related elements to contracts?
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 09:46:50 PM
of course there are appearance performance related elements in the existing contracts and has no bearing on this whatsoever.I know next to nothing about this kind of thing but surely thats dependant on what was put in the original contract?The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention serfdom earlier. The "for that much money a week they should be expected to..." argument will move from 'play three games in 8 days', to 'risk contracting a disease that could kill them or their loved ones'.
I think they will be told (subtlety of course) that their wages are dependant upon TV contracts.
Of course though, fuck knows what was put in the contracts when they were signed.
Sorry , I meant new contracts and wages. Mind you there could well be appearance/performance related elements to contracts?
So how are they going to force players into entering Into new contracts that enable them to be put at risk?
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 10:41:12 PM
of course there are appearance performance related elements in the existing contracts and has no bearing on this whatsoever.I know next to nothing about this kind of thing but surely thats dependant on what was put in the original contract?The players don’t want to play, the players will not be insured.
The Government rules on social distancing will remain which means playing football is a non starter.
At some point they will wake up to this.
They will make exceptions for sport, otherwise why bother going through all this?
I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention serfdom earlier. The "for that much money a week they should be expected to..." argument will move from 'play three games in 8 days', to 'risk contracting a disease that could kill them or their loved ones'.
I think they will be told (subtlety of course) that their wages are dependant upon TV contracts.
Of course though, fuck knows what was put in the contracts when they were signed.
Sorry , I meant new contracts and wages. Mind you there could well be appearance/performance related elements to contracts?
So how are they going to force players into entering Into new contracts that enable them to be put at risk?
Eh?
The point I am making is that if players refused to play, the assumption is clubs would lose out on revenues (this is why they are looking at trying to complete the season afterall).
It isn’t a great leap that to think if clubs have less money, they will pay less in wages going forward.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 02, 2020, 10:42:14 PM
So many little things like that that really make it obscene to be pushing the return of football as some sort of priority.
It is all so undignified, the entire fucking circus.
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 10:51:15 PM
You'd have things like massive amounts of testing of players at a time when no doubt the NHS will still be struggling to get enough tests. You'd have players engaging in close physical contact at a time we'd be telling people how important it is to keep distant.
So many little things like that that really make it obscene to be pushing the return of football as some sort of priority.
It is all so undignified, the entire fucking circus.
This reminds me a bit of the last Presidential election. For ages we all kept guffawing at his nonsense, and shuddering at his latest indiscretion. But he kept on gaining momentum, despite it being blindingly obvious to many he was nuts and completely ill suited to the task in hand.
It is an undignified circus, but we live in weird old times.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 10:53:29 PM
The financial position is precarious at best and I agree there will be a lot less money going forward.
If the clubs can not create a situation with the players which enables them to trade solvently then you will see Insolvency events across the game.
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 11:10:10 PM
Post by: aev on May 02, 2020, 11:17:01 PM
And next idea touted is playing the games in Perth (the warm one).
Post by: David_Nab on May 02, 2020, 11:23:20 PM
There may be players who refuse to play & teams (Liverpool / Man City) who just field a weakened team.
Moving to 5 subs is already alluding to this , I am certain that Liverpool once confirmed champs with 1) not give any shits about remaining games 2) likely play 2nd string/ reserves
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:52:49 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 03, 2020, 12:40:41 AM
The Govt will not block the resumption of games behind closed doors - they want good news / things getting back to normal!
The PL will want to finish the season / keep money from Sky. The integrity of the product is irrelevant as long as the money keeps coming.
The majority of PL & EFL clubs will want to finish the season / money.
The majority of fans will want to watch their team play, until they realise it's a shit product without a crowd.
The numbers in hospital & the number of new daily infections need to be much lower before we should think of restarting anything.
But I would be stunned if they didn't find a way to force this to happen.
Agree, John. So here's the question we all need to answer, how many daily deaths are required for football to restart? Serious question. It's easy to restart the season, we could do it tomorrow but I'd love to hear the PL and fans give a number.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 03, 2020, 01:15:46 AM
Sickening. Fuck the Premier League and their blood money.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 03, 2020, 02:14:36 AM
Post by: mr underhill on May 03, 2020, 07:13:57 AM
Post by: Ben.H on May 03, 2020, 07:28:50 AM
It was about two a day when it was called off, but it will take a long time to get back to that as the rate of decline in deaths is nothing like as steep as their ascent. I suspect it will hinge upon the 'R' number which is incredibly difficult to actually quantify so is quite easy to bullshit about.The Govt will not block the resumption of games behind closed doors - they want good news / things getting back to normal!
The PL will want to finish the season / keep money from Sky. The integrity of the product is irrelevant as long as the money keeps coming.
The majority of PL & EFL clubs will want to finish the season / money.
The majority of fans will want to watch their team play, until they realise it's a shit product without a crowd.
The numbers in hospital & the number of new daily infections need to be much lower before we should think of restarting anything.
But I would be stunned if they didn't find a way to force this to happen.
Agree, John. So here's the question we all need to answer, how many daily deaths are required for football to restart? Serious question. It's easy to restart the season, we could do it tomorrow but I'd love to hear the PL and fans give a number.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 03, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
more stories emerging of a schism within the league with the bottom six vehemently opposed to the latest nonsensical plan. Apparently we are more sympathetic than the other five which, considering our game in hand and large number of outstanding home fixtures, is strange to say the least.Yes Purslow quoted as “offering a very balanced reaction”, what the fuck is he playing at?
Post by: Dave P on May 03, 2020, 09:30:23 AM
more stories emerging of a schism within the league with the bottom six vehemently opposed to the latest nonsensical plan. Apparently we are more sympathetic than the other five which, considering our game in hand and large number of outstanding home fixtures, is strange to say the least.Yes Purslow quoted as “offering a very balanced reaction”, what the fuck is he playing at?
He’s playing it cool and not rocking the boat. Everyone deep down must know that the league will be voided and we don’t want to look like twats in the same way West Ham are. Quite classy tbf but I imagine they’ll be hell to pay if a decision goes against us.
Post by: aev on May 03, 2020, 10:02:34 AM
And so it starts. And in fairness, if their league positions were swapped I reckon their views probably would be too.
Post by: OzVilla on May 03, 2020, 10:09:47 AM
It looks like this. We’ll finish the season but only with no relegation.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 03, 2020, 10:13:54 AM
It’s all about behind the scenes bargaining now. They’ll ramp up dissatisfaction to drive through a PL compromise.
It looks like this. We’ll finish the season but only with no relegation.
Agree
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 03, 2020, 10:15:58 AM
Palace Chairman says if they can't make it (games) work then game might not full recover.
If the game recovered from a six year hiatus at the start of the 1940s and again after its mid-80s nadir, I'd be pretty confident that it would recover from a voided season and then arrangements for the 2020/21 campaign suitably managed.
Post by: frank black on May 03, 2020, 10:16:45 AM
It’s all about behind the scenes bargaining now. They’ll ramp up dissatisfaction to drive through a PL compromise.
It looks like this. We’ll finish the season but only with no relegation.
Imagine that happening? Teams with nothing to play for versus teams with lots to play for.
Post by: Drummond on May 03, 2020, 10:19:13 AM
more stories emerging of a schism within the league with the bottom six vehemently opposed to the latest nonsensical plan. Apparently we are more sympathetic than the other five which, considering our game in hand and large number of outstanding home fixtures, is strange to say the least.Yes Purslow quoted as “offering a very balanced reaction”, what the fuck is he playing at?
He’s playing it cool and not rocking the boat. Everyone deep down must know that the league will be voided and we don’t want to look like twats in the same way West Ham are. Quite classy tbf but I imagine they’ll be hell to pay if a decision goes against us.
Agree. Diplomacy and a smooth way out. (though chuck solicitors at it down the line if it all goes tits up)
Post by: AV82EC on May 03, 2020, 10:47:54 AM
Post by: Steve67 on May 03, 2020, 11:09:02 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 03, 2020, 11:09:33 AM
Post by: algy on May 03, 2020, 11:43:23 AM
I don't think we know Villa's position as the silence from Mr Purslow is deafening. Which I don't see as a bad thing. If we show more sympathy to the plights of others, we may curry favour with them in a vote. I'd like to think that clubs have their eyes on future income and see how many Villa fans attend their stadia, standing us in good stead in any vote for no relegation. Anyway, all guess work at the moment. Where is John Percy when you need him?I think he's taking the right approach right now. There's no danger of our restarting at the moment - keep the powder dry, and build support for our cause. If it were me, I'd be inclined to try and play the long game with this. Having owners with deep pockets, and a load of influence at the top table, will put us in a strong position when football restarts.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 03, 2020, 12:45:37 PM
The problem is that you now have extensive contractual obligations, massive Cash outflows, no revenue and huge liabilities.Palace Chairman says if they can't make it (games) work then game might not full recover.
If the game recovered from a six year hiatus at the start of the 1940s and again after its mid-80s nadir, I'd be pretty confident that it would recover from a voided season and then arrangements for the 2020/21 campaign suitably managed.
Many clubs are insolvent and there is no certainty when they will be in a position to generate any income.
Post by: Dick Edwards on May 03, 2020, 12:52:15 PM
Still hate the whole idea, even if it does suit Villa.
Post by: frank black on May 03, 2020, 12:54:45 PM
I don't think we know Villa's position as the silence from Mr Purslow is deafening. Which I don't see as a bad thing. If we show more sympathy to the plights of others, we may curry favour with them in a vote. I'd like to think that clubs have their eyes on future income and see how many Villa fans attend their stadia, standing us in good stead in any vote for no relegation. Anyway, all guess work at the moment. Where is John Percy when you need him?I think he's taking the right approach right now. There's no danger of our restarting at the moment - keep the powder dry, and build support for our cause. If it were me, I'd be inclined to try and play the long game with this. Having owners with deep pockets, and a load of influence at the top table, will put us in a strong position when football restarts.
Not convinced anyone at Villa has anymore influence than the rest of the owners/chairmen. It will come down to a vote at some point and we will vote to play on rather than accept our relegation on points per game or whatever.
Post by: frank black on May 03, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
BBC Sport reporting that there may be no relegation if neutral venues are used.
Still hate the whole idea, even if it does suit Villa.
That won’t happen IMO what’s the point of playing on for those teams with nothing to play for?
Post by: OzVilla on May 03, 2020, 12:58:54 PM
BBC Sport reporting that there may be no relegation if neutral venues are used.
Still hate the whole idea, even if it does suit Villa.
That won’t happen IMO what’s the point of playing on for those teams with nothing to play for?
To fulfill their contractual obligations.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 03, 2020, 12:59:58 PM
Post by: frank black on May 03, 2020, 01:05:41 PM
So they don’t end up owing the Broadcasters £762 million?
Fair enough, strange times indeed. Suits us I suppose, see the you youngsters getting games
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 03, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 03, 2020, 02:08:28 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 03, 2020, 02:28:05 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on May 03, 2020, 02:32:09 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 03, 2020, 02:49:15 PM
Looks like only way the premier league get the 14 votes needed for neutral venues is by removing relegation......
Which was always going to happen.
Post by: Damo70 on May 03, 2020, 03:01:00 PM
I would have thought they’d promote the top 2 in the championship and make it 22 teams then. They’ll avoid legal aggro then, I wouldn’t think the teams in the play offs can make too much fuss since technically none of those finishing 3-6th are promoted.
I would have thought that promoting the top two in the Championship and making it a 22 team Premier League would please the two promoted clubs and also please the other 20 Premier League clubs who will have two teams they all fancy their chances of finishing above.
Post by: Chris Smith on May 03, 2020, 03:15:26 PM
BBC Sport reporting that there may be no relegation if neutral venues are used.
Still hate the whole idea, even if it does suit Villa.
That won’t happen IMO what’s the point of playing on for those teams with nothing to play for?
To fulfill their contractual obligations.
There’s also the placing prize money which could, potentially, be withheld if the season is not completed.
Post by: paul_e on May 03, 2020, 03:42:48 PM
However there's still a couple of problems.
I think it's unfair to decide the European places like this though but that a minor concern because I don't see how they run a European competition next season anyway.
The season still has to finish by the 30th June, taking away relegation, and ignoring the rule about playing weakened teams, mitigates that to a degree by letting a lot more teams give run outs to kids to allow for rest periods. Will still be a lot of games to cram in though.
If you start on the first weekend in June you can fit 9 games in whilst giving 2 days rest in between every game. That just leaves the games in hand to be played at some point, probably a few days before the main restart, again, giving them a 'warm up' of what to expect. That means if there a reasonable, and safe, way to restart games at the beginning of June they can probably just manage it in time. I have doubts though.
Post by: Dave P on May 03, 2020, 04:00:41 PM
I would have thought they’d promote the top 2 in the championship and make it 22 teams then. They’ll avoid legal aggro then, I wouldn’t think the teams in the play offs can make too much fuss since technically none of those finishing 3-6th are promoted.
I would have thought that promoting the top two in the Championship and making it a 22 team Premier League would please the two promoted clubs and also please the other 20 Premier League clubs who will have two teams they all fancy their chances of finishing above.
But would the EFL promote throughout or just from the championship? Don’t think Cov will be happy in league 1 and who do you promote in league 2?
Post by: olaftab on May 03, 2020, 04:21:20 PM
Post by: The Edge on May 03, 2020, 04:32:19 PM
I would have thought they’d promote the top 2 in the championship and make it 22 teams then. They’ll avoid legal aggro then, I wouldn’t think the teams in the play offs can make too much fuss since technically none of those finishing 3-6th are promoted.Avoiding legal aggro will be pretty much impossible whatever they decide. Fulham for instance will insist they were by no means out of the automatic promotion race.
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 03, 2020, 05:12:12 PM
I would have thought they’d promote the top 2 in the championship and make it 22 teams then. They’ll avoid legal aggro then, I wouldn’t think the teams in the play offs can make too much fuss since technically none of those finishing 3-6th are promoted.Avoiding legal aggro will be pretty much impossible whatever they decide. Fulham for instance will insist they were by no means out of the automatic promotion race.
Any club with a statue of Michael Jackson outside it's ground has zero validity in this argument.
Post by: mr underhill on May 03, 2020, 05:17:52 PM
Post by: Dave on May 03, 2020, 05:59:54 PM
I would have thought they’d promote the top 2 in the championship and make it 22 teams then. They’ll avoid legal aggro then, I wouldn’t think the teams in the play offs can make too much fuss since technically none of those finishing 3-6th are promoted.Avoiding legal aggro will be pretty much impossible whatever they decide. Fulham for instance will insist they were by no means out of the automatic promotion race.
Any club with a statue of Michael Jackson outside it's ground has zero validity in this argument.
(Fulham don't)
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 03, 2020, 06:09:57 PM
I would have thought they’d promote the top 2 in the championship and make it 22 teams then. They’ll avoid legal aggro then, I wouldn’t think the teams in the play offs can make too much fuss since technically none of those finishing 3-6th are promoted.Avoiding legal aggro will be pretty much impossible whatever they decide. Fulham for instance will insist they were by no means out of the automatic promotion race.
Any club with a statue of Michael Jackson outside it's ground has zero validity in this argument.
(Fulham don't)
They did.
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 03, 2020, 06:32:07 PM
Post by: Damo70 on May 03, 2020, 07:02:25 PM
I would have thought they’d promote the top 2 in the championship and make it 22 teams then. They’ll avoid legal aggro then, I wouldn’t think the teams in the play offs can make too much fuss since technically none of those finishing 3-6th are promoted.Avoiding legal aggro will be pretty much impossible whatever they decide. Fulham for instance will insist they were by no means out of the automatic promotion race.
Any club with a statue of Michael Jackson outside it's ground has zero validity in this argument.
(Fulham don't)
They did.
I would imagine nobody hated the Michael Jackson statue more than the Fulham fans themselves. Apart from the subject matter it was a very cheap and tacky statue.
Maybe they could have improved the statue by having some local schoolkids 'touch it up a bit'.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 03, 2020, 07:10:30 PM
In the last 10 seasons, the following teams have escaped relegation after being in the bottom 3 after 29 matches:
2010/11 Wigan and Wolves
2011/12 Wigan and QPR
2013/14 WBA
2014/15 Leicester
2017/18 Palace
If you look at the bottom 3 teams after 29 matches over the last 10 seasons, the following differences can be seen:
14 of the 30 improved their home form (points per game)
Average improvement across the 30 teams was 0.03 points per game
21 of the 30 improved their away form
Average improvement across the 30 teams was 0.07 points per game
Home and away, 18 of the 30 improved
Average improvement was 0.05 points per game
The above are averages and there are always exceptions (see above teams that escaped relegation). You cannot introduce something that has no basis in fact to interpolate out a club's form from 29 matches to 38. Football has it's 'miracle' matches and DW raised one in the Watford v Liverpool match not so long ago. It is fact that towards the end of the season, teams in the bottom three improve their form over the last quarter of the season.
The above applies to PL relegation but may not be the same for promotion from the Championship or other division promotion or relegation and there is the issue, there is not one system that fits all. In the Championship at the corresponding point last season, Leeds were 2nd, 2 points ahead of the 3rd placed team. They ended the season 6 points behind Sheff Utd. and as we know (yes!), they were not promoted through the play-offs.
There is no way of replicating the first 29 matches in the final quarter of the season, whether it by points per game, playing at a neutral ground, behind closed doors or whatever. Add in the health risk of trying to play the matches and no discussion as to the details of all the issues of this and the late end to the season, the only option is to void the season.
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 03, 2020, 07:28:27 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on May 03, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.Not strictly true. Expect the ECB to announce the WI tests will be played in July BCD as they have the same need for sky money to survive.
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 03, 2020, 07:42:31 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.Not strictly true. Expect the ECB to announce the WI tests will be played in July BCD as they have the same need for sky money to survive.
Bit of a stretch, the ECB have said nothing of the sort only that all cricket is off until at least 1 July.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 03, 2020, 08:00:10 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.
I wonder if rugby or cricket would be asked to play at neutral venues or it only because somebody thinks football fans are morons?
Post by: Steve67 on May 03, 2020, 08:11:11 PM
Post by: Legion on May 03, 2020, 08:12:10 PM
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 03, 2020, 08:16:04 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 03, 2020, 08:21:34 PM
Probably see us playing at Old Trafford !
I honestly don't know if they are planning to do this to dis-include fans and to try to stop them from travelling? How many Villa fans do we have in that area? Probably loads within a 25 miles radius and if they are determined enough, they will be at the venue. Same if you ask Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea NOT to attend Villa Park.
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 03, 2020, 08:33:12 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.
I wonder if rugby or cricket would be asked to play at neutral venues or it only because somebody thinks football fans are morons?
The whole neutral venue thing is what bothers me, if the stadium is empty bar the required staff to cover the medical and TV requirements then what’s the need to play at a neutral venue?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 03, 2020, 09:09:49 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.
I wonder if rugby or cricket would be asked to play at neutral venues or it only because somebody thinks football fans are morons?
The whole neutral venue thing is what bothers me, if the stadium is empty bar the required staff to cover the medical and TV requirements then what’s the need to play at a neutral venue?
I think the theory is it stops fans gathering outside. Seems ridiculous to me.
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 03, 2020, 09:26:51 PM
Post by: Risso on May 03, 2020, 09:50:45 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.
I wonder if rugby or cricket would be asked to play at neutral venues or it only because somebody thinks football fans are morons?
Most football fans ARE morons.
Post by: Ad@m on May 03, 2020, 10:43:38 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.
Look at the Bundesliga - they've had 3 players at Cologne diagnosed with C-19 in the past few days and they're cracking on regardless. Money really is the be-all and end-all to the major leagues.
Post by: DB on May 03, 2020, 10:55:57 PM
Post by: john2710 on May 03, 2020, 11:33:30 PM
Post by: stevo_st on May 03, 2020, 11:45:00 PM
No advantage to be gained from closing out the EFL this season.
If it works....
Letting the top two up from the Championship, to make an enlarged premier league, would make sense if they were looking to scrap the cup competitions or European competitions for next season.
If it doesn’t...
Guess you’ll look at a Xmas start date - possibly with each league split into two mini leagues to make sure the season after next isn’t also affected - or playing each team once a season at a neutral ground
Post by: Pete3206 on May 04, 2020, 12:34:17 AM
And wherever Scouseplop clinch the title, there will be thousands at the ground and thousands in the streets of Liverpool city centre.
Madness, driven by humongous contractual agreements.
Post by: David_Nab on May 04, 2020, 12:34:22 AM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.
I wonder if rugby or cricket would be asked to play at neutral venues or it only because somebody thinks football fans are morons?
The whole neutral venue thing is what bothers me, if the stadium is empty bar the required staff to cover the medical and TV requirements then what’s the need to play at a neutral venue?
I think the theory is it stops fans gathering outside. Seems ridiculous to me.
Yes but it miss's the point that fans can easily travel to said locations and if they do how many police will it take to look after them ?
Villa Park on a match day , does the area still need to be sealed off ? Or as no fans does traffic by the ground just carry on as normal? Do these guys actually think that if they stick Liverpool at Old Trafford to win league then Liverpool fans won't drive there ...
The only reason they are using grounds and not training pitches is for the TV camera's because to be honest they might as well play the games as BH if there no fans.
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 04, 2020, 12:45:01 AM
If they scrap relegation ( I obviously really hope they do ), then what’s the point of finishing the games. They’re basically dead rubbers for the bottom half.
I get European places need to be determined, but to have the grief of 90 odd matches just to sort that ?
It’s madness.
Post by: Hillbilly on May 04, 2020, 01:01:48 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 04, 2020, 01:46:56 AM
The whole idea is beyond ridiculous. I have no doubt money is behind it, but even so.
If they scrap relegation ( I obviously really hope they do ), then what’s the point of finishing the games. They’re basically dead rubbers for the bottom half.
I get European places need to be determined, but to have the grief of 90 odd matches just to sort that ?
It’s madness.
The authorities won't care about matches being uncompetitive, they know that plastic Liverpool and Man U type fans will tune in regardless. In fact, as Scudamore admitted when he was Premier League Chief Executive, they'd much prefer it if the league's lesser lights roll over for the teams with hundreds of millions of fans in Asia.
Post by: OzVilla on May 04, 2020, 03:19:27 AM
Would that young Chelsea team rather play Villa, Watford, West Ham and Norwich fighting for their lives or with no threat of relegation?
Post by: adrenachrome on May 04, 2020, 03:32:34 AM
The whole idea is beyond ridiculous. I have no doubt money is behind it, but even so.
If they scrap relegation ( I obviously really hope they do ), then what’s the point of finishing the games. They’re basically dead rubbers for the bottom half.
I get European places need to be determined, but to have the grief of 90 odd matches just to sort that ?
It’s madness.
The authorities won't care about matches being uncompetitive, they know that plastic Liverpool and Man U type fans will tune in regardless. In fact, as Scudamore admitted when he was Premier League Chief Executive, they'd much prefer it if the league's lesser lights roll over for the teams with hundreds of millions of fans in Asia.
Exactly. It would be so lucrative that it is mooted that many of the games will be free to air over here. Overseas TV viewing would be phenomenal. It would be a massive bonanza for the berzerk gambling industry.
Bear in mind that several teams have already reopened their training grounds.
The government meeting on Thursday and the PL meeting on Friday should make things clearer.
I agree with all those who say it is a clusterfuck, but I believe the season will be completed in the summer.
Post by: olaftab on May 04, 2020, 04:31:37 AM
Post by: sid1964 on May 04, 2020, 06:01:32 AM
are semi professional.
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 06:15:29 AM
Well whatever happens one thing is certain. No relegation this season. Any format for conclusion will require 14 clubs voting for it and that is never going to happen if relegation is still part of it.
But there are 14 clubs that were realistically not getting relegated.
The bottom 6 are in a relegation battle, so the vote could (and would) pass?
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 06:49:26 AM
Post by: frank black on May 04, 2020, 07:03:20 AM
Post by: sid1964 on May 04, 2020, 07:21:28 AM
But there again it is all about the money!
Post by: OzVilla on May 04, 2020, 07:33:35 AM
Well whatever happens one thing is certain. No relegation this season. Any format for conclusion will require 14 clubs voting for it and that is never going to happen if relegation is still part of it.
But there are 14 clubs that were realistically not getting relegated.
The bottom 6 are in a relegation battle, so the vote could (and would) pass?
I think there are a few clubs outside the bottom 6 that would vote no relegation. Newcastle for instance are trying to push through a sale. They have a very outside chance of relegation but it’s still possible - especially if Bruce feels he’s being moved on, his teams tend to have losing streaks.
If they went down that’s the sale over, the Saudis aren’t going to buy a championship club. It may be a small chance but why risk it.
Chelsea have 4 of the bottom 6 still to play. They are chasing a CL spot. It’s absolutely vital to get in the CL for a club like Chelsea. Voiding relegation makes their run in easier imo.
That’s just 2 examples - all clubs will be putting their interests first you can be sure of that.
Post by: simboy on May 04, 2020, 07:51:55 AM
Seemed a bit daft to me but would stop the accumulation at grounds when games going on and from what he was saying there's no/very few COVID cases there. So perhaps some sense. in it.
By the way other sports are thinking how to move forward. ECB, for example are looking at the West Indies team coming over, being quarantined and playing some cricket, be that Test or ODI.
Post by: andyh on May 04, 2020, 08:22:35 AM
Listening to 5 Live with the chap proposing the Premiership should be finished in Perth [the Western Australian variety not the cold, damp midge-ridden Scottish type]. Take 75 staff from each club, quarantine them on arrival following a non-stop trip from the UK to Perth.What a fucking ridiculous idea.
Seemed a bit daft to me but would stop the accumulation at grounds when games going on and from what he was saying there's no/very few COVID cases there. So perhaps some sense. in it.
By the way other sports are thinking how to move forward. ECB, for example are looking at the West Indies team coming over, being quarantined and playing some cricket, be that Test or ODI.
75 from each club is 1500 people carted off to the side of the world, in total isolation before during and after the event.
What about the football authorities, match officials, TV engineers and acilliary staff who need to be there?
Would all those people be happy to be totally isolated from their families etc for at least 2 months, for starters?
Oh, and I’m sure those nice Australians would be happy to import all those people into their ‘nearly covid free’ country.
Not shooting the messenger by the way...just the idea.
Post by: simboy on May 04, 2020, 08:35:44 AM
Listening to 5 Live with the chap proposing the Premiership should be finished in Perth [the Western Australian variety not the cold, damp midge-ridden Scottish type]. Take 75 staff from each club, quarantine them on arrival following a non-stop trip from the UK to Perth.What a fucking ridiculous idea.
Seemed a bit daft to me but would stop the accumulation at grounds when games going on and from what he was saying there's no/very few COVID cases there. So perhaps some sense. in it.
By the way other sports are thinking how to move forward. ECB, for example are looking at the West Indies team coming over, being quarantined and playing some cricket, be that Test or ODI.
75 from each club is 1500 people carted off to the side of the world, in total isolation before during and after the event.
What about the football authorities, match officials, TV engineers and acilliary staff who need to be there?
Would all those people be happy to be totally isolated from their families etc for at least 2 months, for starters?
Oh, and I’m sure those nice Australians would be happy to import all those people into their ‘nearly covid free’ country.
Not shooting the messenger by the way...just the idea.
Not a problem but
It would be for about 6 weeks I think.
Not total isolation for the whole time, just the the 14 days as recommended by the Aussie Government and the State authorities and then tested. If there is no virus in the city then no need for isolation once confirmed you are free from virus. So only 14 days in isolation the rest free from any restriction. I suspect they would relish the opportunities to be restriction free. Jack could drive his car with one slipper on, Spurs could hire a few hookers ... all good.
Match officials. - About the same as a World Cup or European Championship really isn't it?
TV crews etc. Don't they have TV crews in Australia? I think they were the big innovators in covering sports. Murdoch and, before him, Packer were all Diggers weren't they?
Perth is the most isolated city in the World. If they confirm that the footballers [and others] don't have the disease after the 14 days how are they going to import it? I suspect the Aussies would love it. Real economic boost with the chance to see top line football. Not playing behind closed doors etc.
I don't mind being shot at. I'm playing devil's apricot ... a sweeter version of my usual job.
Post by: PeterWithe on May 04, 2020, 08:47:50 AM
I know a lot of people are having weird dreams but where do they get these ideas from?
Post by: mr underhill on May 04, 2020, 08:48:05 AM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 04, 2020, 09:01:31 AM
I’d also still want to finish outside the bottom 3, not just psychologically but to prevent the accusations of us only staying up because... etc.
Post by: Risso on May 04, 2020, 09:14:20 AM
Perth. Fucking Perth?
I know a lot of people are having weird dreams but where do they get these ideas from?
It was just some random agent moron (from Birmingham, sadly) in Australia, who the BBC gave far more time than was necessary to. I might give them a ring and suggest playing the game in a newly constructed lunar stadium on the moon,
Post by: Des Little on May 04, 2020, 09:16:57 AM
Post by: WarszaVillan on May 04, 2020, 09:21:55 AM
Any meeting that the PL have is purely a can kicking exercise. They’ll never finish the season, they know it but are waiting for the Government to make the decision for them.
You're probably right. This may seem overly pesimistic but I think we'll miss around full 3 seasons (especially a season with crowds present). Perhaps a season will be started, but it will be suspended as new waves of the virus hit. How the game will look and what clubs will survive is anyone's guess. Being relegated and playing games with spectators in the Championship seems like a wonderful utopia at the moment.
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 09:33:05 AM
Any meeting that the PL have is purely a can kicking exercise. They’ll never finish the season, they know it but are waiting for the Government to make the decision for them.
"Reduced hot-desking and alternatives to social distancing where it is not possible are among measures being considered to let workplaces reopen.
A draft government plan to ease anti-coronavirus restrictions, seen by the BBC, also urges employers to minimise numbers using equipment, stagger shift times and maximise home-working."
This would enable football to restart, no?
Post by: LeeB on May 04, 2020, 09:33:58 AM
Perth. Fucking Perth?
I know a lot of people are having weird dreams but where do they get these ideas from?
It was just some random agent moron (from Birmingham, sadly) in Australia, who the BBC gave far more time than was necessary to. I might give them a ring and suggest playing the game in a newly constructed lunar stadium on the moon,
"We'll build a great stadium, the best, and we'll get the Chinese to pay for it"
Post by: paul_e on May 04, 2020, 09:37:20 AM
Perth. Fucking Perth?
I know a lot of people are having weird dreams but where do they get these ideas from?
It was just some random agent moron (from Birmingham, sadly) in Australia, who the BBC gave far more time than was necessary to. I might give them a ring and suggest playing the game in a newly constructed lunar stadium on the moon,
The Mash Report already did that.
Post by: Clampy on May 04, 2020, 09:48:54 AM
Post by: David_Nab on May 04, 2020, 10:46:02 AM
Take relegation out and no interest in the games , well once Liverpool get 2 wins will be fuck all interest in the title either but there still going to be expected to play right ? Also the bottom 6 are bad guys where as the top 2 in Championship are the hero's for wanting to play , jog on switch the positions and they would be doing the same
No one wants to go down , but going down this season and no fans next year is a disaster for any team going down in terms of turnover
Post by: Ads on May 04, 2020, 10:51:49 AM
There's 2 months worth of fixtures left of this one and we're not going to see a re-start until July you wouldn't have thought (on the premise that there is a re-start).
With a normal length of time for pre-season, you'd be looking at November/December and who knows what might have happened by then.
A second wave?
No second wave and the virus remains suppressed?
One of the 80 teams globally working on a vaccine has a one that passes human trials in the September/October? Some roll out to vulnerable?
If they want to finish the season without relegation that's less of a concern, as we're left with 10 friendlies we don't care about a great deal.
I would like my £120 quid back for Liverpool and Newcastle mind.
Post by: Hale on May 04, 2020, 10:53:03 AM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 04, 2020, 11:39:29 AM
Post by: in exile on May 04, 2020, 11:47:40 AM
Must be true because I read it on the interweb.
Post by: Risso on May 04, 2020, 11:47:53 AM
I guess it depends when next season starts regarding fans.
There's 2 months worth of fixtures left of this one and we're not going to see a re-start until July you wouldn't have thought (on the premise that there is a re-start).
With a normal length of time for pre-season, you'd be looking at November/December and who knows what might have happened by then.
A second wave?
No second wave and the virus remains suppressed?
One of the 80 teams globally working on a vaccine has a one that passes human trials in the September/October? Some roll out to vulnerable?
If they want to finish the season without relegation that's less of a concern, as we're left with 10 friendlies we don't care about a great deal.
I would like my £120 quid back for Liverpool and Newcastle mind.
It's very clear now that there are going to be no games for fans to attend, so they need to be refunding people straight away in my opinion.
Post by: sid1964 on May 04, 2020, 11:53:47 AM
Post by: in exile on May 04, 2020, 11:54:26 AM
Make of it what you will.
Post by: mr underhill on May 04, 2020, 11:57:08 AM
Post by: in exile on May 04, 2020, 12:02:06 PM
Post by: nevillain on May 04, 2020, 12:03:17 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-big-six-lobby-21969725
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 12:08:06 PM
Mirror spreading shit again
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-big-six-lobby-21969725
"Their thinking is so short sighted".
Yup, we should just fall into line so the "big 6" cement their financial superiority.
Post by: WarszaVillan on May 04, 2020, 12:09:27 PM
You joke about it but SKY/BT have suggested using CGI crowds and crowd noise.
Must be true because I read it on the interweb.
Maybe they could construct huge screens around the ground. Then fans could pay to watch the match and have themselves streamed onto the screen. It would be like a giant zoom call and the sound from each computer could be relayed into the stadium and fans could coordinate chanting and singing like one of those annoying joint celebrity songs.
Post by: Drummond on May 04, 2020, 12:10:06 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.Not strictly true. Expect the ECB to announce the WI tests will be played in July BCD as they have the same need for sky money to survive.
Bit of a stretch, the ECB have said nothing of the sort only that all cricket is off until at least 1 July.
I suppose they are a bit more spaced out in cricket...
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 04, 2020, 12:12:53 PM
Just announce a 22-24 team league next season if you're so desperate to restart.
Post by: LeeB on May 04, 2020, 12:13:21 PM
Mirror spreading shit again
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-big-six-lobby-21969725
"Their thinking is so short sighted".
Yup, we should just fall into line so the "big 6" cement their financial superiority.
Ha ha, yeah no worries mate, we'll just fall into line and take the hit so so you can sell £25,000 pound season tickets that let you view the players in the tunnel like it's the fucking Sea Life Centre.
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 04, 2020, 12:21:45 PM
Mirror spreading shit again
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-big-six-lobby-21969725
"Their thinking is so short sighted".
Yup, we should just fall into line so the "big 6" cement their financial superiority.
Ha ha, yeah no worries mate, we'll just fall into line and take the hit so so you can sell £25,000 pound season tickets that let you view the players in the tunnel like it's the fucking Sea Life Centre.
Christ almighty, can you imagine the sort of window lickers you'd get in there?
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 12:23:38 PM
Which is ironic really, as it is going to be played behind closed doors.
Additionally, does anyone think Liverpool would be playing their strongest team until the end of the season with the next one so close?
Post by: David_Nab on May 04, 2020, 12:25:51 PM
Mirror spreading shit again
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-big-six-lobby-21969725
"Their thinking is so short sighted".
Yup, we should just fall into line so the "big 6" cement their financial superiority.
I saw Steve Parish the Palace Chairmen saying we need to play , I suspect if Palace were in the bottom 6 he might think different.
People can slag off the bottom 6 all they want they have by far the most to lose from this and are acting accordingly
Post by: Dave P on May 04, 2020, 12:27:32 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 04, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 04, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
Also some of those teams that are pushing for CL spots still have a number of games against the current bottom 6/8 sides, those mathematically not safe. Isn’t it in their interests to vote to void relegation and basically put all those teams they still have to play on the beach.
Would that young Chelsea team rather play Villa, Watford, West Ham and Norwich fighting for their lives or with no threat of relegation?
Based on the Leicester game, I'm not sure there's much difference...
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 12:44:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 04, 2020, 12:55:38 PM
Having retired to Cornwall 7 years ago I am now an armchair sports fan. During this period I have seen some great sport on TV, Murray's wins at Wimbledon, Stokes' heroics, the Ryder Cup and of course Villa at Wembley. My experience would have been significantly enhanced by being there but the tv was a good second best. Not only was it sport played at the highest level but in front of a full house and the atmosphere they generated. I recently followed the winter sport Biathlon on Eurosport and they almost completed the season before travel restrictions were enforced. Two venues then held races without crowds. I watched a couple of races but devoid of atmosphere the tv experience was significantly diminished and I gave up. So all those sports particularly premier league thinking behind closed doors at neutral venues will get millions watching is in my opinion misguided (although if people watch sport as a computer game then what do I know).You are so right the present crowd make it an event howver do TV companies care? Look at cricket they are quite happy to broadcast full coverage of Test matches and one dayers with almost no one in the ground.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on May 04, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Then all hell will break loose...
Corporate Manslaughter, did Simon Jordan say?
Post by: sid1964 on May 04, 2020, 01:06:47 PM
Gary Neville made the point that players may have to sign forms to confirm that are okay with playing and there will be no come back on the clubs if they catch the virus.
Post by: Ads on May 04, 2020, 01:11:25 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 04, 2020, 01:12:39 PM
Quote
They are furious at what they see as sabotage and mere self-interest from those at the bottom, rather than what is best for the Premier League and English football as a whole.
There will no added impact on future TV deals if relegation is avoided and there will be no loss of TV money this season if season is voided. Stupid posturing going on at the moment. In fact PL clubs will have 4 extra games next season to earn more.
Also I do not get Brighton view about being allowed to play home games at home. How is that an advantage if the ground is empty of fans?
Post by: simboy on May 04, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
I think it is going to happen (I dont think it should), but the government seem keen to try and get it happening. There aren't enough clubs to overturn it, and the PFA wont stop it as its members want to get paid.
Add into that mix Sky are desperate to get subscriptions back and i think, sadly, that you are right. Or at least there will be an attempt to do it.
Post by: andyh on May 04, 2020, 01:15:24 PM
So if an employee returns to work at JLR in the next few weeks (because they have been told to) and they catch the virus and die, will the owners of JLR get done for corporate manslaughter? if they did then NO company would ever re-open its doors ever again?To be fair, people aren’t flobbing every 5 seconds on the shop floor.
Gary Neville made the point that players may have to sign forms to confirm that are okay with playing and there will be no come back on the clubs if they catch the virus.
Post by: Ads on May 04, 2020, 01:16:48 PM
No, none of us in the bottom six will be voting to sabotage our financial futures. Decide what you want about the Misnomer League as frankly we couldn't give two shits.
Ifnthe decision is to play behind closed doors in perpetuity then you have signed the death certificate of the game. We're supporters, not fans. And that would be the end of it for me.
Post by: john e on May 04, 2020, 01:18:48 PM
Nurses, doctors and care workers can’t get the PPE they need and the PL want to start playing football. If this crackpot scheme doesn’t get fucked off by HM Government then we should all just pack up and go home. Not a muttering from the RFU or any of the other 6 nations governing bodies about restarting rugby or finishing the 2020 6N tournament & not a peep from the ECB. Finishing the season just to comply with a TV contract, no relegation, no fans, what exactly is the point? Ridiculous.Not strictly true. Expect the ECB to announce the WI tests will be played in July BCD as they have the same need for sky money to survive.
Bit of a stretch, the ECB have said nothing of the sort only that all cricket is off until at least 1 July.
I suppose they are a bit more spaced out in cricket...
always been a big drug problem with cricketers
Post by: PeterWithe on May 04, 2020, 01:22:10 PM
Any meeting that the PL have is purely a can kicking exercise. They’ll never finish the season, they know it but are waiting for the Government to make the decision for them.
"Reduced hot-desking and alternatives to social distancing where it is not possible are among measures being considered to let workplaces reopen.
A draft government plan to ease anti-coronavirus restrictions, seen by the BBC, also urges employers to minimise numbers using equipment, stagger shift times and maximise home-working."
This would enable football to restart, no?
So we could put a pair of goals either end of Sutton Park, have say 5 a side, no ball and have the opposition turn up on a different day. I like it
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 01:42:57 PM
Any meeting that the PL have is purely a can kicking exercise. They’ll never finish the season, they know it but are waiting for the Government to make the decision for them.
"Reduced hot-desking and alternatives to social distancing where it is not possible are among measures being considered to let workplaces reopen.
A draft government plan to ease anti-coronavirus restrictions, seen by the BBC, also urges employers to minimise numbers using equipment, stagger shift times and maximise home-working."
This would enable football to restart, no?
So we could put a pair of goals either end of Sutton Park, have say 5 a side, no ball and have the opposition turn up on a different day. I like it
Ha.
I think "alternatives to social distancing where it is not possible are among measures being considered to let workplaces reopen" could actually allow anything to happen.
Presumably it would be down to the industry to show what it is doing as an alternative. And as we know, they are putting these things in place.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 01:49:24 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 04, 2020, 02:09:11 PM
So if an employee returns to work at JLR in the next few weeks (because they have been told to) and they catch the virus and die, will the owners of JLR get done for corporate manslaughter? if they did then NO company would ever re-open its doors ever again?
It'd be the same as for any other concern about potential death or injury in the workplace, I'd imagine. The risk will be assessed, necessity of tasks will be evaluated, mitigation measures will be put in place, and practices will be adjusted. I don't think any business is going to or will be allowed to go, 'fuck this, let's just get on with it as though nothing's happened'.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 04, 2020, 02:22:13 PM
Once you say you have got to leave your home and travel to work, you are vulnerable and I understand Insurance Companies are making it clear that they are not taking on the risk.
Post by: nevillain on May 04, 2020, 02:28:12 PM
This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 04, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's very good. Quite refreshing too. Some indicators there too that it's someone from the Liverpool area.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 04, 2020, 02:32:28 PM
Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
Post by: David_Nab on May 04, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Post by: Mister E on May 04, 2020, 02:39:45 PM
This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballerExcellent; thanks for sharing.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 02:40:11 PM
Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's the same source. I'm not sure that John Nicholson would risk his reputation on publishing a 2000 word piece that he'd just made up. It doesn't work like that.
Post by: Risso on May 04, 2020, 02:48:36 PM
Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's the same source. I'm not sure that John Nicholson would risk his reputation on publishing a 2000 word piece that he'd just made up. It doesn't work like that.
It does read like the sort of conversation you have in your head though!
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 04, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
So if an employee returns to work at JLR in the next few weeks (because they have been told to) and they catch the virus and die, will the owners of JLR get done for corporate manslaughter? if they did then NO company would ever re-open its doors ever again?
It'd be the same as for any other concern about potential death or injury in the workplace, I'd imagine. The risk will be assessed, necessity of tasks will be evaluated, mitigation measures will be put in place, and practices will be adjusted. I don't think any business is going to or will be allowed to go, 'fuck this, let's just get on with it as though nothing's happened'.
The difference to normal though is if you get injured at work, the cause is pretty clear. If you come down with c-19 whilst having been working, how do you prove you caught it at work, and that your employer's negligence was responsible?
I think it'll be practically impossible for employers to be done for corporate manslaughter.
Post by: David_Nab on May 04, 2020, 03:17:18 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11881/11983005/coronavirus-10-positive-tests-across-bundesliga-1-and-2
Post by: Ads on May 04, 2020, 03:43:53 PM
Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It reads like what Rob Shaw's character in Jaws would be like if he had played football.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 04, 2020, 03:48:18 PM
Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's the same source. I'm not sure that John Nicholson would risk his reputation on publishing a 2000 word piece that he'd just made up. It doesn't work like that.
I wonder if it's a composite of several player interviews.
Post by: eamonn on May 04, 2020, 03:55:37 PM
Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's the same source. I'm not sure that John Nicholson would risk his reputation on publishing a 2000 word piece that he'd just made up. It doesn't work like that.
It does read like the sort of conversation you have in your head though!
What you do in your head, you do in your head.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 04:07:41 PM
Post by: Des Little on May 04, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 04, 2020, 04:34:31 PM
This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
Whoever it is, I hope they've got a good accountant:
Quote
“I don’t know, but it won’t be much, not relatively. If you had 1000 staff on 25 grand per year, that’s only two and half million per year.
Errrr
Post by: Simon Page on May 04, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
Whoever it is, I hope they've got a good accountant:Quote“I don’t know, but it won’t be much, not relatively. If you had 1000 staff on 25 grand per year, that’s only two and half million per year.
Errrr
I thought that, but it's clearly a typo. Football clubs don't have 1,000 staff on 25K.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 04, 2020, 04:44:27 PM
Whoever it is, I hope they've got a good accountant:Quote“I don’t know, but it won’t be much, not relatively. If you had 1000 staff on 25 grand per year, that’s only two and half million per year.
Errrr
I thought that, but it's clearly a typo. Football clubs don't have 1,000 staff on 25K.
There's a Hancock/Patel joke in there somewhere.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 04, 2020, 05:05:15 PM
Which of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on May 04, 2020, 05:31:43 PM
I"ll buy a ST as and when but i doubt il be setting foot into VP till the New Year.Which of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Post by: john2710 on May 04, 2020, 05:37:02 PM
Which of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.I would love to go, as I really miss it.
But I won't be going again until it's safe to do so & that's at least a year away.
Post by: andyh on May 04, 2020, 05:41:13 PM
I’d be thereWhich of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 04, 2020, 06:50:37 PM
Could be.Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's the same source. I'm not sure that John Nicholson would risk his reputation on publishing a 2000 word piece that he'd just made up. It doesn't work like that.
I wonder if it's a composite of several player interviews.
You could take every one of those points from quite a number of posts on here including the healthy dollop of cynicism.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on May 04, 2020, 07:08:49 PM
Depends how accurate the latest antibody test is!I’d be thereWhich of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Post by: chrisw1 on May 04, 2020, 07:11:39 PM
I think I would, but it will depend on what the situation is like at the time. If it's still rife, then maybe not, if it's just handfuls of cases then yes probably.I’d be thereWhich of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Re player X - I stil think it sounds like Deeny.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on May 04, 2020, 07:24:37 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 04, 2020, 07:26:12 PM
It’s not as if there are any witnesses.Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's the same source. I'm not sure that John Nicholson would risk his reputation on publishing a 2000 word piece that he'd just made up. It doesn't work like that.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 07:47:10 PM
It’s not as if there are any witnesses.Do you think it’s real? It seems a bit cliched and predictable in a let’s line up every single argument from a non quoted source.This is good: https://www.football365.com/news/back-septemvber-coronavirus-anonymous-footballer
Good read. Would love to know who that is
It's the same source. I'm not sure that John Nicholson would risk his reputation on publishing a 2000 word piece that he'd just made up. It doesn't work like that.
Yeah, people with integrity tend not to think like that (I'm not suggesting that I have integrity, or that you don't).
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
I think I would, but it will depend on what the situation is like at the time. If it's still rife, then maybe not, if it's just handfuls of cases then yes probably.I’d be thereWhich of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Re player X - I stil think it sounds like Deeny.
That wouldn't surprise me.
Post by: Steve67 on May 04, 2020, 07:55:10 PM
Play in Perth? Do they think that there are no football fans out there? What time would kick off be if they want to maximise viewing figures? Load of old tosh that suggestion.
10 players test positive in Germany and they are well ahead of us in the fight to bring the virus under control. Gary Neville reckons players will have to sign a form to play? What? And void any claim they might make and leave their family short? Feck off.
Post by: paul_e on May 04, 2020, 08:32:24 PM
I think I would, but it will depend on what the situation is like at the time. If it's still rife, then maybe not, if it's just handfuls of cases then yes probably.I’d be thereWhich of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Re player X - I stil think it sounds like Deeny.
That wouldn't surprise me.
Deeney's a good shout but I'm pretty sure it's Delph, if you read it and imagine it in his voice it fits perfectly and then you have the talk of Man City contracts and the hints towards being liverpool based. He's about the right age and profile, both in terms of family and his place in the game. I also think (and I'm sure there's been posts on here backing this up) that the biggest problem when he left us was talking before he stopped to think, which fits well with someone willing to have a conversation like this.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 04, 2020, 08:43:52 PM
Post by: walsall villain on May 04, 2020, 08:50:18 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrappedIt wasn’t very likely was it? That’s one of the daft ideas dumped then.
Post by: Legion on May 04, 2020, 08:51:07 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Who?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 04, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Post by: Legion on May 04, 2020, 08:54:28 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 08:54:33 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Who?
Respected football hack for the Independent.
Post by: Legion on May 04, 2020, 08:54:53 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 04, 2020, 08:55:54 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Who?
Respected football hack for the Independent.
Who said all the bottom six have to play more aways than homes.
Post by: walsall villain on May 04, 2020, 08:56:00 PM
Well not really. Not sure how you’re going to overcome the disparity in the competition.I can see this behind closed doors mullarkey at neutral grounds getting the nod (voted in 14-6 probably). Whether it gets to be completed is another thing.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 04, 2020, 08:58:23 PM
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 09:03:32 PM
It won’t happen. Those teams at the bottom won’t sign up because of the obvious disadvantage.
There are only 6 and that wouldn’t be enough to stop it happening?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Who?
Respected football hack for the Independent.
Who said all the bottom six have to play more aways than homes.
Wouldn't his editor ultimately be in the chair for not fact-checking that?
Before it escalates, I have neither an axe to grind with, nor do I hold a candle for the man in question!
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 04, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 04, 2020, 09:06:04 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Who?
Respected football hack for the Independent.
Who said all the bottom six have to play more aways than homes.
Wouldn't his editor ultimately be in the chair for not fact-checking that?
Before it escalates, I have neither an axe to grind with, nor do I hold a candle for the man in question!
Editors wouldn't sign off every story.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 04, 2020, 09:07:41 PM
http://chng.it/P6xqGhZnPV
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 04, 2020, 09:08:05 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Fine as long as we play our six remaining home games at Villa Park where we have picked up 73% of our points.
Post by: Steve67 on May 04, 2020, 09:08:26 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Then why would we throw our advantage of 6 games in ten at home by agreeing to play at a neutral venue, particularly if we have managed to gain 17 points from our 25 at home? Got to be more to this.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 04, 2020, 09:10:49 PM
Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Who?
Respected football hack for the Independent.
Who said all the bottom six have to play more aways than homes.
Wouldn't his editor ultimately be in the chair for not fact-checking that?
Before it escalates, I have neither an axe to grind with, nor do I hold a candle for the man in question!
Editors wouldn't sign off every story.
I know. I work in print media*. But it would've been subbed and ought to have been checked - stuff like that is at my place and it's a much smaller operation than the Indy. The point is that the writer can always claim a failure of process after they've filed.
It's not worth getting too far down the rabbit hole about though.
*Edit: just remembered that the Indy is no longer print media. I also work in digital media and the same applies.
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 09:21:08 PM
I suspect it would be.
I thought the suggestion is that 14 votes are needed?
Post by: Legion on May 04, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 04, 2020, 09:39:34 PM
We all now the neutral venue stuff is rubbish and is a disadvantage to us. I’m past the point of overly giving a monkeys. I obviously want us to stay up but if we did go down in those circumstances it would always be the ‘season where we were shafted’
Just got to hope that we gets results from games where sides have nothing much to play for
Everton, Palace, Newcastle etc
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 09:47:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 04, 2020, 09:47:39 PM
Post by: Simon Page on May 04, 2020, 09:50:38 PM
I know. I work in print media*. But it would've been subbed and ought to have been checked - stuff like that is at my place and it's a much smaller operation than the Indy. The point is that the writer can always claim a failure of process after they've filed.
It's not worth getting too far down the rabbit hole about though.
*Edit: just remembered that the Indy is no longer print media. I also work in digital media and the same applies.
Temporary burrowing: I sub for a living and check so many "facts" you'd assume the originator wouldn't get wrong, but there comes a point where you have to trust the writer. I say that as someone who doesn't trust writers as much as they think I should, but I'd expect them to check everything they'd introduced to the story. Otherwise, they're redundant. I'd add that mistakes happen so this could be an aberration, symptomatic of regular carelessness, or anything in between. Don't think I've read his stuff.
Anyway, please don't relegate the team and please don't make the supporters ill. In that order, obviously.
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 10:01:21 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 04, 2020, 10:03:01 PM
German football resuming May 15th.
Even with 10 of them testing positive today?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 04, 2020, 10:03:27 PM
Post by: Legion on May 04, 2020, 10:04:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 04, 2020, 10:06:39 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 04, 2020, 10:09:35 PM
Post by: aev on May 04, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
It's absolutely nothing to do with having to pay Sky/BT £760million in compo. Honest guv!
The crazy thing is 38m will so quickly be spaffed up the wall on a couple of average new players.
Post by: David_Nab on May 04, 2020, 10:14:17 PM
I have zero doubt that us at home with a full house against Shef United in our game in hand would have been played with a loud home crowd driving the team on is now taken away and make's it a harder game for us and easier for them.
If we are going to say it doesn't matter then why don't we just play every season going forward with games at random stadiums
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11979873/which-premier-league-clubs-benefit-from-games-behind-closed-doors
71% of our points are home games
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 04, 2020, 10:27:53 PM
German football resuming May 15th.
I still can't see anything definite about that. But there is this, Salomon Kalou breaks social distancing rules as 10 test positive (https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11881/11983005/bundesliga-salomon-kalou-breaks-social-distancing-rules-as-10-test-positive), just in case you needed reminding what a prat footballer looks like.
Edit: although it does give the impression that his club aren't taking it that seriously either.
Post by: Steve67 on May 04, 2020, 10:30:19 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 04, 2020, 10:30:30 PM
It's absolutely nothing to do with having to pay Sky/BT £760million in compo. Honest guv!What else could it be?
Post by: Villan82 on May 04, 2020, 10:33:51 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 04, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I think I would, but it will depend on what the situation is like at the time. If it's still rife, then maybe not, if it's just handfuls of cases then yes probably.I’d be thereWhich of us would go to VP in September - reduced capacity or otherwise - for a game if there wasn’t a vaccine in place? I’ll start, not me.
I would
Re player X - I stil think it sounds like Deeny.
That wouldn't surprise me.
Deeney's a good shout but I'm pretty sure it's Delph, if you read it and imagine it in his voice it fits perfectly and then you have the talk of Man City contracts and the hints towards being liverpool based. He's about the right age and profile, both in terms of family and his place in the game. I also think (and I'm sure there's been posts on here backing this up) that the biggest problem when he left us was talking before he stopped to think, which fits well with someone willing to have a conversation like this.
Yeah I think Delph is a good call.
Who ever it is is dead on about how shit it will be and players not being up for it.
Post by: Seb_AVFC on May 04, 2020, 11:08:30 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on May 05, 2020, 12:01:00 AM
It's absolutely nothing to do with having to pay Sky/BT £760million in compo. Honest guv!
The crazy thing is 38m will so quickly be spaffed up the wall on a couple of average new players.
Good point.
But the money has to flow. Turn of the spigot and the whole system grinds to a halt.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 05, 2020, 12:11:00 AM
How is that even allowed and does that mean they are getting ready for the next game which is V is at the Villa?
Or in Ilse of Wight or something?
Football madness.
Post by: Villafirst on May 05, 2020, 02:14:30 AM
Post by: Dick Edwards on May 05, 2020, 06:09:13 AM
Post by: sid1964 on May 05, 2020, 06:25:37 AM
Post by: WarszaVillan on May 05, 2020, 07:13:32 AM
I have worked every day during the lock down, and have been busier than normal so If there is a chance to watch the team play in September etc.. then I would go
Each to their own of course. But with tens of thousands already dead in the UK and knowing how sports events like the Liverpool-Athletico game and Cheltenham helped to spread the disease, why would anyone risk another wave (assuming the present one has been controlled by then) just as we are entering the Autumn. I love my trips to Villa Park, but I wouldn't want to kill people to get there.
Post by: PeterWithe on May 05, 2020, 07:21:48 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on May 05, 2020, 07:30:53 AM
Post by: aev on May 05, 2020, 07:47:48 AM
I see football club Doctors are worried about their liability and insurance cover should players contract the virus according to a BBC headline. So many potential problems could arise. These club bosses have no morals whatsoever, and it's a slap in the face to all those brave NHS heroes putting their lives on the line. Shameful.
But if clubs get hold of cash by playing, lets say 40m, they'd presumably happily pay 5m (no idea how much it is) to cover increased premiums.
Football has been walked towards this moment for a couple of weeks it seems to me, and I cant see anything derailing it.
I would imagine the PFA will raise some concerns and then be pacified once they are reminded of the sums at stake.
God knows what happens if a club has a number of first team players that become poorly, though as seen in Germany it hasn't stopped it proceeding.
Post by: DB on May 05, 2020, 08:41:08 AM
Post by: aev on May 05, 2020, 08:48:56 AM
Interesting read that.
Post by: nick harper on May 05, 2020, 08:51:24 AM
It seems from The Times that Sky/BT are adamant that relegation is part of the equation however the games are played. Never mind the integrity of the competition and the impact on clubs.
I get that the league are desperate to get the games done to protect the revenue, but clubs should not be financially penalised to the extent of relegation when the last quarter of the competition bears no relation to the first three quarters.
Post by: frank black on May 05, 2020, 08:52:42 AM
It’s going to isn’t it
Post by: Mister E on May 05, 2020, 08:58:02 AM
And who may simply be winding up the top 6 vs bottom 6 narrative that's building.Miguel Delaney is reporting that there is no chance of relegation being scrapped
Who?
Respected football hack for the Independent.
Who said all the bottom six have to play more aways than homes.
Post by: mr underhill on May 05, 2020, 08:58:23 AM
Post by: David_Nab on May 05, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Post by: walsall villain on May 05, 2020, 09:47:25 AM
So after the government review on Thursday this friday 8th may , 75 years anniversary of VE day as it's called, bank holiday, all the Premier league clubs are meeting and will vote weather to have the season go ahead.Think The government briefing to us is Sunday and EPL meeting now next week
I suspect by Thursday night we'll have a good indication of where things are.
And Friday will be the vote which determines rest of season. And exact answer to what will happen to Aston villa season
Post by: Des Little on May 05, 2020, 09:48:33 AM
Post by: David_Nab on May 05, 2020, 09:53:23 AM
So after the government review on Thursday this friday 8th may , 75 years anniversary of VE day as it's called, bank holiday, all the Premier league clubs are meeting and will vote weather to have the season go ahead.Think The government briefing to us is Sunday and EPL meeting now next week
I suspect by Thursday night we'll have a good indication of where things are.
And Friday will be the vote which determines rest of season. And exact answer to what will happen to Aston villa season
Yeah Monday PL meeting now
At moment looks like Gov will allow it so its now down to teams or players refusing to play
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 05, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
So after the government review on Thursday this friday 8th may , 75 years anniversary of VE day as it's called, bank holiday, all the Premier league clubs are meeting and will vote weather to have the season go ahead.Think The government briefing to us is Sunday and EPL meeting now next week
I suspect by Thursday night we'll have a good indication of where things are.
And Friday will be the vote which determines rest of season. And exact answer to what will happen to Aston villa season
Yeah Monday PL meeting now
At moment looks like Gov will allow it so its now down to teams or players refusing to play
Thanks for info. Well see you here Monday for the ultimate h and v discussion.
Best wishes over you and everyone bank holiday too.
Post by: aev on May 05, 2020, 10:32:26 AM
Gordon Taylor raising suggestion games might be less than 45 mins a half ....
Hhahahhah
Post by: David_Nab on May 05, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 05, 2020, 10:37:35 AM
Post by: andyh on May 05, 2020, 10:48:29 AM
What day is today?April 1st if that crazed loon, Gordon Taylor is anything to go by.
Post by: Ian. on May 05, 2020, 11:00:43 AM
It will be jumpers for goal posts, rush keepers and next goal wins at this rate.Gordon Taylor raising suggestion games might be less than 45 mins a half ....
Hhahahhah
Post by: aev on May 05, 2020, 11:05:10 AM
Deans been talking to sky this am. We have two players (one with asthma and one whose living with someone in remission) who couldn’t play due to risk if season continues. How in gods name is this integrity of competition?
Honestly it is amazing really. This would be the same for all clubs of course, but it really is a load of old shit.
I love Villa to bits,but I don't love football anymore.
Post by: andyh on May 05, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
Post by: aev on May 05, 2020, 11:13:04 AM
Silly question.....can you be a professional footballer with asthma ?
Yep.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 05, 2020, 11:15:04 AM
Post by: nevillain on May 05, 2020, 11:16:43 AM
Silly question.....can you be a professional footballer with asthma ?
Not exactly the same but Johann Cruyff smoked 40 tabs a day, so I would say it’s likely
Post by: Risso on May 05, 2020, 11:17:13 AM
Silly question.....can you be a professional footballer with asthma ?
You're far more likely to be a professional cyclist...
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Post by: Richard E on May 05, 2020, 11:18:59 AM
Silly question.....can you be a professional footballer with asthma ?
You're far more likely to be a professional cyclist...
<Applause>
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 05, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
Apologies if this has been answered already but is this "Project Restart" just the Premier League or the EFL as well? I assume non league won't start again. In which case I think Premier League players would be justified in asking why their health is seemingly less important than players further down the pyramid.
Because integrity. And huge piles of other people's money.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 05, 2020, 11:22:18 AM
Silly question.....can you be a professional footballer with asthma ?
You're far more likely to be a professional cyclist...
<Applause>
Double applause
Post by: paul_e on May 05, 2020, 11:39:53 AM
Silly question.....can you be a professional footballer with asthma ?
One of the best ways to reduce the impact of asthma is to increase your vo2 max (lung capacity) so, with the levels of fitness involved at top level football, I doubt it makes much difference to their ability to play but they are probably managing their asthma better than most.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 05, 2020, 11:45:55 AM
Gordon Taylor raising suggestion games might be less than 45 mins a half ....
Great suggestion. An even better suggestion would be for Gordon Taylor to take a long walk off a short pier.
Post by: Villan82 on May 05, 2020, 11:49:38 AM
Deans been talking to sky this am. We have two players (one with asthma and one whose living with someone in remission) who couldn’t play due to risk if season continues. How in gods name is this integrity of competition?
The football authorities should be ashamed.
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 05, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
Gordon Taylor raising suggestion games might be less than 45 mins a half ....Can we apply this retrospectively? If we took out goals we conceded late in games we'd be looking at Europe.
Post by: garyellis on May 05, 2020, 12:07:51 PM
Post by: LukeJames on May 05, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
Gordon Taylor raising suggestion games might be less than 45 mins a half ....
Like 0 mins? Great suggestion to be fair.
Post by: OzVilla on May 05, 2020, 12:21:23 PM
Just seen Rick Parry giving evidence to DCMS committee. He says current season must be concluded by 31 July. He looks a worried man
He also said the real question around the continuation of the EFL season was whether it was worth it but regardless still fully expects clubs promoted to and relegated from the PL. Says it’d ‘get messy’ if not.
If you can’t finish the season tough shit I’d have thought?
Post by: old man villa fan on May 05, 2020, 12:36:09 PM
https://www.borehamwoodfootballclub.co.uk/uncategorized/boreham-wood-fc-update-by-chairman-danny-hunter-3/
Interesting read that.
Well worth a read if you have passed this by. A realistic view and what it all means lower down the leagues.
I said before that a decision made now to stop, gives clubs a fighting chance to replan their finances and come out of this with a more healthy future. What we are seeing now is that the higher level teams need the TV money like an addict needs drugs. Top level football is hooked on the TV money and the way the natural flow of money down the leagues used to preserve the life of lower level teams, the current stepped difference between the PL and the rest will kill lower level football.
Post by: garyellis on May 05, 2020, 12:36:21 PM
Well if he can't see its messy already and could get a lot worse he is in the wrong job. The best way out for them at the end of the day may well be to void the season unless they can get a consensus.Just seen Rick Parry giving evidence to DCMS committee. He says current season must be concluded by 31 July. He looks a worried man
He also said the real question around the continuation of the EFL season was whether it was worth it but regardless still fully expects clubs promoted to and relegated from the PL. Says it’d ‘get messy’ if not.
If you can’t finish the season tough shit I’d have thought?
Post by: eamonn on May 05, 2020, 12:39:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 05, 2020, 12:41:39 PM
Post by: Billy Walker on May 05, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
"8.14 All matches shall be played on the home and away principle and the Board shall determine
how the fixtures shall be arranged."
This is where it gets sticky.
Post by: The Edge on May 05, 2020, 12:47:12 PM
"Promotion and relegation or it will get messy" Well in the case of PL/Championship the messy legal action will come from clubs who think they've "earned" the right to promotion. But equally a potentially much larger legal challenge will come from clubs who are denied the chance for a fair chance to avoid losing their place in the PL. Especially from AVFC who still have a game in hand. Our very wealthy owners would put up a huge challenge on that basis alone.Just seen Rick Parry giving evidence to DCMS committee. He says current season must be concluded by 31 July. He looks a worried man
He also said the real question around the continuation of the EFL season was whether it was worth it but regardless still fully expects clubs promoted to and relegated from the PL. Says it’d ‘get messy’ if not.
If you can’t finish the season tough shit I’d have thought?
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 05, 2020, 12:52:40 PM
Post by: themossman on May 05, 2020, 12:53:53 PM
Post by: aev on May 05, 2020, 12:55:03 PM
"Promotion and relegation or it will get messy" Well in the case of PL/Championship the messy legal action will come from clubs who think they've "earned" the right to promotion. But equally a potentially much larger legal challenge will come from clubs who are denied the chance for a fair chance to avoid losing their place in the PL. Especially from AVFC who still have a game in hand. Our very wealthy owners would put up a huge challenge on that basis alone.Just seen Rick Parry giving evidence to DCMS committee. He says current season must be concluded by 31 July. He looks a worried man
He also said the real question around the continuation of the EFL season was whether it was worth it but regardless still fully expects clubs promoted to and relegated from the PL. Says it’d ‘get messy’ if not.
If you can’t finish the season tough shit I’d have thought?
If the Championship doesn't get to finish, pretty tricky to argue that a team should be promoted, certainly looking at what happened at the end of last season.
Post by: aev on May 05, 2020, 12:57:02 PM
Another point to bear in mind is that contracts end on 30th June, and presumably the Premier League will want to extend these. But they're saying the squads named in January will have to remain. Which is one rule changed and a related one staying the same.
But wouldn't these just be voted on, with at least 14 needed to vote for the change?
Post by: CT on May 05, 2020, 01:00:33 PM
Integrity....
Post by: littleoldme on May 05, 2020, 01:17:42 PM
So in theory, at the moment, we could get relegated at a neutral venue, playing 25 minutes each way.30,000 dead is the second worst in the whole world,speak's volume's.
Integrity....
Post by: ROBBO on May 05, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 05, 2020, 01:35:11 PM
And you can shove your FFP up your arse for the forseeable as well.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 05, 2020, 01:40:20 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 05, 2020, 01:43:36 PM
So in theory, at the moment, we could get relegated at a neutral venue, playing 25 minutes each way.
Integrity....
In theory we could be relegated having not completed the season and without having kicked another ball. There's no easy way to resolve the many problems presented by this situation but ultimately some teams are going to be hard done to and we could be one of them.
Personally I don't think the PL trying to find a solution and exploring possibilities to resume playing is a bad thing per se, it's just that any "solution" throws up as many problems. It's a dilly of a pickle.
Post by: LeeB on May 05, 2020, 01:54:19 PM
Any team that gets telegated from this should be demanding a share of the telly money till they get back up.
And you can shove your FFP up your arse for the forseeable as well.
This was a typo, but seems appropriate if the circumstances should arsie.
It will be 'Telly-gate' scandal, and we'll be tellygated.
Post by: Villan82 on May 05, 2020, 01:55:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 05, 2020, 01:56:30 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 05, 2020, 01:59:06 PM
Cancel relegation, end the season, fuck Albion and Fulham, easy.
FTFY
Post by: CT on May 05, 2020, 02:01:30 PM
Cancel relegation, end the season, promote Albion and Fulham and have a bigger league next year, easy.
Promote Leeds and Fulham. FTA.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 05, 2020, 02:02:59 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 05, 2020, 02:05:56 PM
I've seen it all now.
Journalists lauding Rick Parry's "parachute payments are an evil" comments as some sort of Che Guevara-esque revolutionary act.
As CEO of the Premier League he literally built the system he's now arguing against!
Post by: cdward on May 05, 2020, 02:08:01 PM
Finish the Premier League abroad as UK environment isn't safe enough. Neville suggests league should resume "in an environment that has proven it can handle this virus"
"If the Premier League are really serious about delivering the matches that remain in a safe environment they would move it to the two or three spots that are within three or four hours of this country that are coronavirus free.
"They would take the Premier League players, broadcasters and media over, quarantine for a week or two and then deliver it in an environment that has proven it can handle this virus. There are a couple of hotspots in Europe that haven't got coronavirus which could handle the Premier League finishing.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11981606/gary-neville-finish-the-premier-league-abroad-as-uk-environment-isnt-safe-enough
Post by: andyh on May 05, 2020, 02:14:36 PM
So here's the latest ridiculous idea from Gary Neville:What a twat
Finish the Premier League abroad as UK environment isn't safe enough. Neville suggests league should resume "in an environment that has proven it can handle this virus"
"If the Premier League are really serious about delivering the matches that remain in a safe environment they would move it to the two or three spots that are within three or four hours of this country that are coronavirus free.
"They would take the Premier League players, broadcasters and media over, quarantine for a week or two and then deliver it in an environment that has proven it can handle this virus. There are a couple of hotspots in Europe that haven't got coronavirus which could handle the Premier League finishing.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11981606/gary-neville-finish-the-premier-league-abroad-as-uk-environment-isnt-safe-enough
Post by: themossman on May 05, 2020, 02:16:36 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 05, 2020, 02:17:03 PM
Make games available to stream legally at cost and use this income to reduce ticket prices to keep grounds full
The PL has its own issues soon if UEFA get their way change champs league to league winners only qualify and Europ league Semi finalists essentially no more top 4 race.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 05, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
The EFL and PL need to merge , they need to rebrand create a PL 2 and change the massive cut off from dropping down from the PL then you won't have this issue
Make games available to stream legally at cost and use this income to reduce ticket prices to keep grounds full
The PL has its own issues soon if UEFA get their way change champs league to league winners only qualify and Europ league Semi finalists essentially no more top 4 race.
Would the first idea not just create a similar "massive cut off" between PL2 and whatever the third tier was called?
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 05, 2020, 02:51:07 PM
Post by: tony scott on May 05, 2020, 02:57:12 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 05, 2020, 03:03:36 PM
The EFL and PL need to merge , they need to rebrand create a PL 2 and change the massive cut off from dropping down from the PL then you won't have this issue
Make games available to stream legally at cost and use this income to reduce ticket prices to keep grounds full
The PL has its own issues soon if UEFA get their way change champs league to league winners only qualify and Europ league Semi finalists essentially no more top 4 race.
Would the first idea not just create a similar "massive cut off" between PL2 and whatever the third tier was called?
PL3 Maybe but obviously the issue is sharing of funds mostly generated by the top league but when you see the TV deals come to £3bil and 2.9bil goes in wages then with wage caps for example it could be distributed better.
Post by: eamonn on May 05, 2020, 03:03:54 PM
Post by: Des Little on May 05, 2020, 03:08:35 PM
Well if we’re going for shortened half’s ,why not go the whole hog play a 5 a side tournament over a W/e indoors done and dusted quick as you like.
Like it. Get Atari to sponsor it, play it at the NEC but don’t let the D.ogshit take part. They’ve not stopped talking about winning it back then.
Bloody autocorrect!
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 05, 2020, 03:12:09 PM
Post by: garyellis on May 05, 2020, 03:17:07 PM
if they compromise the current format in anyway teams will be disadvantaged. Some more than others. If they're hell bent on finishing the league it has to be played in the same way to the point it stopped. If they can't do that then it has to be null and void. It's that simple.Don't be daft that's far too sensible and logical.
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 05, 2020, 03:22:18 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on May 05, 2020, 03:31:15 PM
Post by: The Edge on May 05, 2020, 03:36:07 PM
if they compromise the current format in anyway teams will be disadvantaged. Some more than others. If they're hell bent on finishing the league it has to be played in the same way to the point it stopped. If they can't do that then it has to be null and void. It's that simple.Well put.My sentiments exactly. We wait until the full green light to resume however long that takes. Then there's two possible scenarios. Finish this season to it's proper conclusion or scrap it. It all depends on how it impinges on next season. That bridge can be crossed when we have real dates to work on.
Post by: aj2k77 on May 05, 2020, 04:36:52 PM
So not only would we lose 6 home games but we could also lose 2 players.
Fuck that.
Post by: nick harper on May 05, 2020, 04:51:01 PM
Dean Smith says that if/when football returns then we may be without 2 players who are considered a high risk.
So not only would we lose 6 home games but we could also lose 2 players.
Fuck that.
Given its Villa, it’s bound to be Grealish and McGinn !
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 05, 2020, 05:00:08 PM
Dean Smith says that if/when football returns then we may be without 2 players who are considered a high risk.
So not only would we lose 6 home games but we could also lose 2 players.
Fuck that.
Given its Villa, it’s bound to be Grealish and McGinn !
Pepe Reina is the obvious one. I can't recall who's the current Villa player with asthma.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 05, 2020, 05:05:29 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 05, 2020, 05:10:51 PM
Hasn't Pepe Reina already had it and therefore less likely to be an issue?
He's already returned from whence he came, hasn't he?
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 05, 2020, 05:12:07 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 05, 2020, 05:38:59 PM
Well he was seen running back to his goal, not sure if he made it though.Hasn't Pepe Reina already had it and therefore less likely to be an issue?
He's already returned from whence he came, hasn't he?
Post by: David_Nab on May 05, 2020, 06:12:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 05, 2020, 07:00:17 PM
Hasn't Pepe Reina already had it and therefore less likely to be an issue?Depends on how severe it was. We have heard far too often how severely Covid-19 impacts on lungs and other organs.
Post by: john e on May 05, 2020, 07:00:26 PM
I think it will come down to finishing the league in the higgledy piggledy way they are talking about
or they will finish it on points per game
If they don’t finish the league we will go down on that basis
legal actions will happen but that would happen anyway no matter what way they do it
might be wrong but that’s what I reckon
Post by: aj2k77 on May 05, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
To be honest, I've given up caring about this season. Events off the pitch render it meaningless, it's only a game and seeing the money men scrambling around to save their cash cow and the whole wages and furlough rubbish I've found very distasteful.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 05, 2020, 07:23:20 PM
Post by: Villan82 on May 05, 2020, 07:45:11 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 05, 2020, 08:32:41 PM
3 teams will be relegated on a complete rewrite of the rules of the game in order to manipulate the need by Sky and BT to get these games played, brings into question just what can you believe about football, I mean if money can wield this much power in a sport then have we all been fools to believe any of it, is it all in question, if you can restart a season in the middle of a pandemic killing thousands, then you can easily throw games, organise finals, even get the best teams to qualify to put bums on seats and viewing audiences for international finals, they are proving one thing, its all a load of crap.
Post by: tomd2103 on May 05, 2020, 08:50:46 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 05, 2020, 09:01:48 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 05, 2020, 09:33:51 PM
Here that loan would be 3 times as much do you think the Gov could or would loan that much to support football ?
Post by: Steve67 on May 05, 2020, 10:31:55 PM
Post by: andyh on May 05, 2020, 10:53:18 PM
Yes football has once again charged straight to the forefront of being utterly tone death and shameless.When the ****** Raab starts with sports will ‘lift the nation’ you can see what’s coming next.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52552667
Post by: Steve67 on May 05, 2020, 10:56:49 PM
Yes football has once again charged straight to the forefront of being utterly tone death and shameless.When the c*** Raab starts with sports will ‘lift the nation’ you can see what’s coming next.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52552667
I guess that the government cannot tell the EPL to call off the season because the government might be liable to pay the compo to Sky and they just can't afford that on top of everything else they've forked out for. Therefore, this is going to happen, I reckon.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 05, 2020, 11:19:16 PM
Shorter halves?
I just don’t see an agreement being reached between the clubs anyway so surely it’s going to be a non starter?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 05, 2020, 11:22:07 PM
Yes football has once again charged straight to the forefront of being utterly tone death and shameless.When the c*** Raab starts with sports will ‘lift the nation’ you can see what’s coming next.
Out of a UK population of some 66 million, fewer than 400,000 of them attend a PL game over any 'round' of matches. Magnitudes more people don't give the slightest toss than do.
National morale wise, I'd suggest getting the casts of Corrie, Eastenders and Emmerdale back to work would be a bigger boost.
Post by: john2710 on May 05, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
The Gov't are only interested in positive press & a return of football fits the agenda. They won't put up any barriers to it's return. When the number of those with the virus go up again it'll be weeks before they know & even then they won't repeat the lockdown.
I'm not saying any of this is right but if we want to stay up, we're going to have to earn it, against the odds.
Post by: adrenachrome on May 06, 2020, 12:05:35 AM
The PL are going to force a return to playing, no matter what. The integrity of the game is irrelevant against the pull of money. Is a footballer more at risk than a factory worker or a teacher? School's will be open & most of us will be back at work by mid-June.
The Gov't are only interested in positive press & a return of football fits the agenda. They won't put up any barriers to it's return. When the number of those with the virus go up again it'll be weeks before they know & even then they won't repeat the lockdown.
I'm not saying any of this is right but if we want to stay up, we're going to have to earn it, against the odds.
Yes, I believe this is what will happen, and for the reasons you have outlined.
We should have a clearer idea by Friday evening.
Post by: tomd2103 on May 06, 2020, 12:55:45 AM
What an absolute farce.
Shorter halves?
I just don’t see an agreement being reached between the clubs anyway so surely it’s going to be a non starter?
Same person who I mentioned a couple of posts back who said Leagues one and Two could be looking at March before they can restart said that the whispers doing the rounds are that players will refuse to play while the threat remains.
Post by: tomd2103 on May 06, 2020, 01:01:10 AM
I still do not see how they are going to restart the season any time soon.
I can't either. It obviously not as important as people losing lives or becoming seriously ill, but this situation is starting to look very grim for a lot of professional sports teams. The Premier League aside, playing behind closed doors just doesn't look financially viable for a lot of other sports teams.
Post by: David_Nab on May 06, 2020, 01:37:12 AM
The PL are going to force a return to playing, no matter what. The integrity of the game is irrelevant against the pull of money. Is a footballer more at risk than a factory worker or a teacher? School's will be open & most of us will be back at work by mid-June.
The Gov't are only interested in positive press & a return of football fits the agenda. They won't put up any barriers to it's return. When the number of those with the virus go up again it'll be weeks before they know & even then they won't repeat the lockdown.
I'm not saying any of this is right but if we want to stay up, we're going to have to earn it, against the odds.
Yes, I believe this is what will happen, and for the reasons you have outlined.
We should have a clearer idea by Friday evening.
Nope
Gov lock-down announcement pushed back till Sunday , PL meeting is Monday now
As mentioned above the Gov is making the noises because on one hand they can't afford to bail out clubs with a near billion quid needed but if they do nothing clubs could fold and take takes jobs and a massive tax income away..
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 01:49:48 AM
I still do not see how they are going to restart the season any time soon.
I can't either. It obviously not as important as people losing lives or becoming seriously ill, but this situation is starting to look very grim for a lot of professional sports teams. The Premier League aside, playing behind closed doors just doesn't look financially viable for a lot of other sports teams.
The only way to make playing behind closed doors financially viable is to broadcast every game, with the majority live. So much talk about next season being played behind closed doors but nobody is talking how it could be made financially viable and make up for losses this season. The reason is that if they could make it work, it would take away the cliff-edge argument that is going on now for completing this season.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 01:57:21 AM
The PL are going to force a return to playing, no matter what. The integrity of the game is irrelevant against the pull of money. Is a footballer more at risk than a factory worker or a teacher? School's will be open & most of us will be back at work by mid-June.
The Gov't are only interested in positive press & a return of football fits the agenda. They won't put up any barriers to it's return. When the number of those with the virus go up again it'll be weeks before they know & even then they won't repeat the lockdown.
I'm not saying any of this is right but if we want to stay up, we're going to have to earn it, against the odds.
Yes, I believe this is what will happen, and for the reasons you have outlined.
We should have a clearer idea by Friday evening.
Nope
Gov lock-down announcement pushed back till Sunday , PL meeting is Monday now
As mentioned above the Gov is making the noises because on one hand they can't afford to bail out clubs with a near billion quid needed but if they do nothing clubs could fold and take takes jobs and a massive tax income away..
Why should the taxpayer bail out football. There is enough money in football for it to survive. A few clubs may go under but there will be others to replace them. Perhaps a dose of financial reality might be better for football in the long run, anyway.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 06, 2020, 02:11:54 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 06, 2020, 03:52:50 AM
Post by: adrenachrome on May 06, 2020, 03:54:50 AM
The PL are going to force a return to playing, no matter what. The integrity of the game is irrelevant against the pull of money. Is a footballer more at risk than a factory worker or a teacher? School's will be open & most of us will be back at work by mid-June.
The Gov't are only interested in positive press & a return of football fits the agenda. They won't put up any barriers to it's return. When the number of those with the virus go up again it'll be weeks before they know & even then they won't repeat the lockdown.
I'm not saying any of this is right but if we want to stay up, we're going to have to earn it, against the odds.
Yes, I believe this is what will happen, and for the reasons you have outlined.
We should have a clearer idea by Friday evening.
Nope
Gov lock-down announcement pushed back till Sunday , PL meeting is Monday now
As mentioned above the Gov is making the noises because on one hand they can't afford to bail out clubs with a near billion quid needed but if they do nothing clubs could fold and take takes jobs and a massive tax income away..
Thanks for the update.
The Torygraph science editor is saying that some lockdown restrictions could be lifted in early to mid-May after the government altered one of its 5 key tests.
Quote
1) Evidence that the NHS can cope across the UK
2) A sustained fall in daily death rates
3) Evidence that the rate of infection is decreasing
4) Confidence that supplies of testing and PPE are able to meet demand
5) No risk of a second peak
The first four have either been met or are close to being met. The fifth hurdle, which ministers have always said is the most important, was originally designed to entirely avoid a second peak.
But on April 28th, the wording was changed to say the aim was to avoid a second peak "that overwhelms the NHS" making it easier for ministers to say the test had been met.
Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, has repeatedly pointed out NHS has never been overwhelmed during the current crisis, which means that ministers could now argue that the NHS would be able to cope even if infections rose sharply again.
When will the UK lockdown end? The four potential exit strategies (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/06/end-when-uk-lockdown-exit-strategy-covid/)
Post by: sid1964 on May 06, 2020, 06:21:41 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 06, 2020, 06:57:52 AM
Already in mountains of debt with potentially no match day revenue now for a year. Add to that the sale of their star prospect, which was going to temporarily keep the wolf from the door, probably not moving on for the fee they'd have been expecting if at all.
Post by: aev on May 06, 2020, 07:16:09 AM
Listening to the chairman of Palace last night - it seems as though maybe a few in the premier league could go bump, it will be interesting to see how long these super rich owners of football clubs keep throwing money at clubs, before they say enough is enough.
So much of this is down to the massive differences in money between the PL and the leagues below.
Post by: RamboandBruno on May 06, 2020, 07:29:51 AM
The more that it becomes inevitable that the football season is over the more you start to see a lot of people’s true colours. And it’s quite ugly. People continue to die at an alarming rate yet many so called leaders clearly could not give a fuck. For the wealthy we are all expendable if they impedes their wealth. Then again for them we always have been behind their fake smiles.
Deep down and maybe not that deep down, we all know that football at least at the PL level has been totally corrupted by money largely through sky, for decades. Add to the farce of the champions league, circulating cash round the few at the top through endless rounds of games as opposed to the old European cup where teams could actually get knocked out after a couple of rounds and teams like villa and forest could win the thing.
We all know this, but because we love the game and our chosen team we choose to at least partially ignore it every weekend, even at 4pm on a rainy Sunday we’re at VP because it suits the money men.
Football mirrors what’s happened with the rest of society over the last 30-40 years.
The govt had stemmed I think social unrest with furlough, but let’s not kid ourselves that their massive underfunding of the nhs and care system over the last decade is one of the reasons we now have the highest death rate in Europe.
At the same big business does everything it can to protect its business model and that largely means f**ing most everyday people over. Virgins letting thousands of staff go as have/will Ryan air and God knows how many other multi nationals, those at the top of those organisations, will not suffer a bean through this.
The premier league is no different
Sky
Wealthy owners
Shareholders
Chief execs
Agents
Players
Managers
Poor feckers on minimum wage or near enough it working at club
Supporters (those subscribing to sky a little higher)
The whole mantra of society pulling together is true in terms of key workers and appreciation for them, but not in terms of the whole of society. Business rolls on, the rich will protect their wealth at any cost, more poorer people will die of covid19 and in the midst of all this the farce that is the PL will restart behind closed doors somewhere. Dirty dirty business this and after loving football and the villa all my life, I’m struggling to care anymore.
Post by: tomd2103 on May 06, 2020, 07:56:20 AM
I still do not see how they are going to restart the season any time soon.
I can't either. It obviously not as important as people losing lives or becoming seriously ill, but this situation is starting to look very grim for a lot of professional sports teams. The Premier League aside, playing behind closed doors just doesn't look financially viable for a lot of other sports teams.
The only way to make playing behind closed doors financially viable is to broadcast every game, with the majority live. So much talk about next season being played behind closed doors but nobody is talking how it could be made financially viable and make up for losses this season. The reason is that if they could make it work, it would take away the cliff-edge argument that is going on now for completing this season.
I don't think showing games live would be viable for most sports teams other than those in the Premier League and perhaps the NFL. Someone on the radio yesterday was saying that playing behind closed doors would cost clubs money.
Post by: aev on May 06, 2020, 08:20:44 AM
I still do not see how they are going to restart the season any time soon.
I can't either. It obviously not as important as people losing lives or becoming seriously ill, but this situation is starting to look very grim for a lot of professional sports teams. The Premier League aside, playing behind closed doors just doesn't look financially viable for a lot of other sports teams.
The only way to make playing behind closed doors financially viable is to broadcast every game, with the majority live. So much talk about next season being played behind closed doors but nobody is talking how it could be made financially viable and make up for losses this season. The reason is that if they could make it work, it would take away the cliff-edge argument that is going on now for completing this season.
I don't think showing games live would be viable for most sports teams other than those in the Premier League and perhaps the NFL. Someone on the radio yesterday was saying that playing behind closed doors would cost clubs money.
It wont be costing them of they do it this season, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it? Any costs incurred will be more than offset by the money we are told they won't be paying back.
Post by: in exile on May 06, 2020, 08:30:45 AM
Listening to the chairman of Palace last night - it seems as though maybe a few in the premier league could go bump, it will be interesting to see how long these super rich owners of football clubs keep throwing money at clubs, before they say enough is enough.Like ours you mean?
Post by: algy on May 06, 2020, 08:43:28 AM
That's fairly easy, though, especially if it's only the top 2 divisions playing. Play 2 matches at a time, kick offs at 9am, 11am, 1pm, 3pm, 5pm, and 7pm on Saturday and Sunday - 24 matches, more than required. Or you could scrap the 9am one and play one match Friday night and one Monday night. You'd be able to play all at just a few neutral venues - 6 probably, to allow an hour before/after the game for teams to vacate and still leave a 2hr window to deep clean the dressing room etc.I still do not see how they are going to restart the season any time soon.
I can't either. It obviously not as important as people losing lives or becoming seriously ill, but this situation is starting to look very grim for a lot of professional sports teams. The Premier League aside, playing behind closed doors just doesn't look financially viable for a lot of other sports teams.
The only way to make playing behind closed doors financially viable is to broadcast every game, with the majority live. So much talk about next season being played behind closed doors but nobody is talking how it could be made financially viable and make up for losses this season. The reason is that if they could make it work, it would take away the cliff-edge argument that is going on now for completing this season.
That also leaves Wednesdays free to clear up the FA cup games.
Not saying at all that I support the idea, my feeling is that this season has been severely compromised, but the problems aren't going to be logistic ones.
Post by: The Edge on May 06, 2020, 08:44:10 AM
If they are to show all games behind closed doors live on tv it raises the bigger question of safety. It takes a small army of people to put live football on our screens. How can anyone say that none of them are carriers of C19? And that's besides all the other people involved in putting on a game. Do you test them all and at what point in the proceedings do you do that? We're going round in circles. For me football can not restart without lockdown being lifted totally and the green light being given regarding C19. Anything else would be risking the lives of all those involved purely for money and in my view that's a disgusting attitude to take.I still do not see how they are going to restart the season any time soon.
I can't either. It obviously not as important as people losing lives or becoming seriously ill, but this situation is starting to look very grim for a lot of professional sports teams. The Premier League aside, playing behind closed doors just doesn't look financially viable for a lot of other sports teams.
The only way to make playing behind closed doors financially viable is to broadcast every game, with the majority live. So much talk about next season being played behind closed doors but nobody is talking how it could be made financially viable and make up for losses this season. The reason is that if they could make it work, it would take away the cliff-edge argument that is going on now for completing this season.
I don't think showing games live would be viable for most sports teams other than those in the Premier League and perhaps the NFL. Someone on the radio yesterday was saying that playing behind closed doors would cost clubs money.
Post by: Dazvillain on May 06, 2020, 08:52:22 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on May 06, 2020, 09:12:58 AM
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on May 06, 2020, 09:20:17 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 06, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
- wont agree to neutral venues unless 'conditions right' as obviously its a disadvantage
- player health - nowhere near enough info as yet one medical side
Post by: garyellis on May 06, 2020, 09:36:24 AM
Most sense I have heard spoken to date on this issue
Post by: cdward on May 06, 2020, 10:18:52 AM
Purslow talking well, highlightsI would be interested to hear him expand on his point regarding neutral venues, what conditions would be right to give back the home advantage?
- wont agree to neutral venues unless 'conditions right' as obviously its a disadvantage
- player health - nowhere near enough info as yet one medical side
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 06, 2020, 10:24:01 AM
Purslow talking well, highlightsI would be interested to hear him expand on his point regarding neutral venues, what conditions would be right to give back the home advantage?
- wont agree to neutral venues unless 'conditions right' as obviously its a disadvantage
- player health - nowhere near enough info as yet one medical side
I think with this sort of thing you have to read between the lines.
He is sounding supportive in that he's not ruling out netutral venues unless the 'conditions are right', which is kind of an insurmountable problem, which means we sound amenable to it as a solution whilst knowing deep down it's not happening.
This entire subject is so awash with bullshit, hidden meaning and obfuscation at the moment.
Post by: aev on May 06, 2020, 10:29:45 AM
Purslow talking well, highlightsI would be interested to hear him expand on his point regarding neutral venues, what conditions would be right to give back the home advantage?
- wont agree to neutral venues unless 'conditions right' as obviously its a disadvantage
- player health - nowhere near enough info as yet one medical side
I think with this sort of thing you have to read between the lines.
He is sounding supportive in that he's not ruling out netutral venues unless the 'conditions are right', which is kind of an insurmountable problem, which means we sound amenable to it as a solution whilst knowing deep down it's not happening.
This entire subject is so awash with bullshit, hidden meaning and obfuscation at the moment.
Yep - and the issue the bottom 6 have is (I think) it would need a 7th to vote against it, and I am not sure who would?
Post by: john2710 on May 06, 2020, 10:46:44 AM
I think Purslow is laying down the grounds for the argument that you can't play at home because of crowd concerns & if you play at neutral venues you remove home advantage. Anyone relegated under those circumstances is at a distinct disadvantage.
Post by: fredm on May 06, 2020, 10:55:46 AM
Purslow talking well, highlightsI would be interested to hear him expand on his point regarding neutral venues, what conditions would be right to give back the home advantage?
- wont agree to neutral venues unless 'conditions right' as obviously its a disadvantage
- player health - nowhere near enough info as yet one medical side
I think with this sort of thing you have to read between the lines.
He is sounding supportive in that he's not ruling out netutral venues unless the 'conditions are right', which is kind of an insurmountable problem, which means we sound amenable to it as a solution whilst knowing deep down it's not happening.
This entire subject is so awash with bullshit, hidden meaning and obfuscation at the moment.
Yep - and the issue the bottom 6 have is (I think) it would need a 7th to vote against it, and I am not sure who would?
There has usually been a team that from looking reasonably safe has plummetted to relegation. If the games are played - on neutral grounds; no crowds etc - could this have an impact on a teams performance? So there is for instance Newcastle - seemingly to be taken over shortly by the Saudis, but no doubt including a guarantee in the deal that they are a PL club so a vote against would guarantee this; or Southampton not so long ago looking certs for relegation so maybe could spiral again. A vote against would cover this. Who knows how they are all thinking.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 06, 2020, 11:02:13 AM
Surely it’s clear by now it’s going to be a long time getting to even a new normal. Why can’t the remaining games of this season be played JAN 21 to April . Earlier finish for euros and cancel season 20/21I think the problem is clubs will go bust if they lose a whole seasons money. There's also the players going out of contract inbetween. It's one thing trying to extend players contracts for a month or two to try to finish the season in Jun-Aug, but I can't see players waiting 6 months. For me, keeping next season as intact as possible ought to be a key priority for the PL.
Post by: villasjf on May 06, 2020, 11:12:43 AM
Post by: mallo on May 06, 2020, 11:20:47 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 06, 2020, 11:25:15 AM
Ok, if we have to play at neutral grounds why Wembley, The Eitihad etc, large venues with no fans? How much will it cost? they will not be giving up their grounds for nothing. Why travel 100s of miles to play in an empty stadium. Why not play at places like Walsall then at least they get something out of it. What about ball boys/girls? Not allowed? I cannot see a premier league player climbing into the stands to get a ball back. Where ever they are played some will make the journey to be outside (some with half/half scarves and some will be gathering at homes, parks with a beer and a radio/tv.I was thinking this. I think only thing against very small grounds will be dressing room size and TV camera angles?
Post by: aj2k77 on May 06, 2020, 11:28:47 AM
I accept we might get relegated and we aren't and haven't been very good but the standings will be a farce.
Post by: cdward on May 06, 2020, 11:34:56 AM
A whole football ground of people have died because of COVID 19, now that is a sobering thought.
Post by: sid1964 on May 06, 2020, 11:40:24 AM
Strange how people listening to the same interview can have such a different view on him.
Post by: Alex77 on May 06, 2020, 12:04:25 PM
Post by: andyh on May 06, 2020, 12:10:00 PM
Link to Purslow interview from this morning.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 06, 2020, 12:12:18 PM
LMA Chief now expecting the season to be cancelled if 14 of the teams can't agree to the neutral venues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225)40,000 tests to keep the game going and the government still only hitting 80,000 there is no way are they restarting any time soon.
Post by: aev on May 06, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
LMA Chief now expecting the season to be cancelled if 14 of the teams can't agree to the neutral venues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225)40,000 tests to keep the game going and the government still only hitting 80,000 there is no way are they restarting any time soon.
But that is 40k over a 8 week period so just over 700 a day? Mind you, still a fair whack of the daily number.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 06, 2020, 12:28:56 PM
Unless they are completely on top of testing which I doubt, will the general public be ok with resources being used in this way?LMA Chief now expecting the season to be cancelled if 14 of the teams can't agree to the neutral venues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225)40,000 tests to keep the game going and the government still only hitting 80,000 there is no way are they restarting any time soon.
But that is 40k over a 8 week period so just over 700 a day? Mind you, still a fair whack of the daily number.
Post by: andyh on May 06, 2020, 12:33:05 PM
Raaab the ****** said it’s to lift the morale of the country, so surely everyone will welcome valuable resources being diverted to football.Unless they are completely on top of testing which I doubt, will the general public be ok with resources being used in this way?LMA Chief now expecting the season to be cancelled if 14 of the teams can't agree to the neutral venues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225)40,000 tests to keep the game going and the government still only hitting 80,000 there is no way are they restarting any time soon.
But that is 40k over a 8 week period so just over 700 a day? Mind you, still a fair whack of the daily number.
Hurrah !
Post by: aev on May 06, 2020, 12:36:20 PM
Unless they are completely on top of testing which I doubt, will the general public be ok with resources being used in this way?LMA Chief now expecting the season to be cancelled if 14 of the teams can't agree to the neutral venues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225)40,000 tests to keep the game going and the government still only hitting 80,000 there is no way are they restarting any time soon.
But that is 40k over a 8 week period so just over 700 a day? Mind you, still a fair whack of the daily number.
Well this goes back to the same thing which has been debated at length on here, and why I don't think football should be restarting any time soon.
Post by: Richard E on May 06, 2020, 12:36:31 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 06, 2020, 12:43:01 PM
Post by: Drummond on May 06, 2020, 12:51:20 PM
Purslow talking well, highlightsI would be interested to hear him expand on his point regarding neutral venues, what conditions would be right to give back the home advantage?
- wont agree to neutral venues unless 'conditions right' as obviously its a disadvantage
- player health - nowhere near enough info as yet one medical side
No relegation for a start.
Post by: Drummond on May 06, 2020, 12:53:24 PM
Plus there might be someone else out there who fancies fucking Liverpool over.... the team in 12th ....
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 12:54:31 PM
People seem to be brushing this off as if it would be easy to do. It may be if you are just going through the motions but to do it properly and get the results so as to take the right action, at the right time, is very difficult logistically. Having the right facilities to test, the qualified staff to test, the facilities to analyse, etc. across every club, will not be easy. Players will want the testing to be best possible, not just a simple test and rightly so, as it could be their life on the line. I am not qualified and have no great knowledge of the virus but it appears to be like a silent predator where, in some cases (very few, fortunately), once you find out you have it, it is too late. There are so many questions over this and you could probably quite easily roll off 100 that need answering by qualified people on the testing alone but I am not hearing any of this in the planning, why not? It will just get brushed under the carpet in the interest of money. I, for one, would fully support players going on strike over this matter, regardless of how much they get paid.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 06, 2020, 12:54:36 PM
Completely agree, safety should be paramount and I have always been of the opinion that we are a very long way from restarting any time soon.Unless they are completely on top of testing which I doubt, will the general public be ok with resources being used in this way?LMA Chief now expecting the season to be cancelled if 14 of the teams can't agree to the neutral venues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225)40,000 tests to keep the game going and the government still only hitting 80,000 there is no way are they restarting any time soon.
But that is 40k over a 8 week period so just over 700 a day? Mind you, still a fair whack of the daily number.
Well this goes back to the same thing which has been debated at length on here, and why I don't think football should be restarting any time soon.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 01:04:02 PM
Post by: aev on May 06, 2020, 01:14:21 PM
In terms of finding 7 clubs to vote against. I'd have thought Spurs and Arsenal might vote against, that way they won't have the ignominy of finishing 7th/8th and can have another crack at Champions League...
Plus there might be someone else out there who fancies fucking Liverpool over.... the team in 12th ....
Fans don't vote sadly. Money talks and so it trumps everything else it seems (well to me anyway).
Bottom 6 are obviously unhappy due to potential relegation and financial pain, other 14 seem happy to go ahead to get the cash. 2 sides of the same coin.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 06, 2020, 01:25:38 PM
Secondly - irony is we can’t play home games as neutral has to be used according to police, however Villa park will be one of the chosen neutral venues to be used which we then can’t play at!?
Harsh as it sounds, if police say your own ground is not safe under current conditions to play then it’s case by case and tough shit. Why should we lose home matches!? It’s all self serving crap so why give in to the ££££top 6££££££
FairPlay to Purslow for standing our ground and reiterating how his job is for the interests of ASTON VILLA and no one else
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 01:35:04 PM
Surely it’s clear by now it’s going to be a long time getting to even a new normal. Why can’t the remaining games of this season be played JAN 21 to April . Earlier finish for euros and cancel season 20/21I think the problem is clubs will go bust if they lose a whole seasons money. There's also the players going out of contract inbetween. It's one thing trying to extend players contracts for a month or two to try to finish the season in Jun-Aug, but I can't see players waiting 6 months. For me, keeping next season as intact as possible ought to be a key priority for the PL.
This is why I think they have to play next season and make playing next season behind closed doors commercially viable all through the leagues, assuming that the social distancing is still a requirement but there is an improvement from where we are now. I do not know how much it costs to broadcast a match on TV and it will clearly differ depending on the quality at PL level, compared with Div. 2.
Currently, a team's supporters consist of season ticket holders, match by match fans from the odd game to almost the complete season and the casual supporter that does not or cannot get to games. The question is, if the matches were available to watch on TV, how much would the fans pay to watch? Going to a match does not just cost the cost of the match ticket but travel, refreshments etc. Would clubs draw in more fans through it being available in your living room, rather than the high cost of attending games. What about away matches where a lot of fans are put off going because of limited ticket availability, poor facilities, time, cost etc. A one-off TV ticket to another clubs home game could bring in more money than team currently get out of away games. Add in local advertising and you could get to a point that the net income is greater for clubs lower down the leagues than they currently get through the gates and the odd TV income.
To make this work, a TV broadcaster would need the same as Sky have for selecting one of, say, 6 matches that are being played at the same time. For a club to stage a behind closed doors match there will be additional costs but there will also be savings and there will be lost income that need to be factored in. For next season there is going to have to be a suspension of the current TV deals and introduce a special one-off deal with buy in from TV, EPL and EFL.
I think it could work but the impact could have implications going forward and change football if it is successful.
Post by: andyh on May 06, 2020, 01:41:35 PM
Few things I don’t get. You need the pyramid under us to go ahead under same conditions. So what’s gonna happen for neutral stadiums for the 400+ outstanding champ/league1 and 2 matches?I think the neutral ground is more designed to prevent fans from travelling/congregating at stadiums.
Secondly - irony is we can’t play home games as neutral has to be used according to police, however Villa park will be one of the chosen neutral venues to be used which we then can’t play at!?
Harsh as it sounds, if police say your own ground is not safe under current conditions to play then it’s case by case and tough shit. Why should we lose home matches!? It’s all self serving crap so why give in to the ££££top 6££££££
FairPlay to Purslow for standing our ground and reiterating how his job is for the interests of ASTON VILLA and no one else
If Villa were to play Arsenal at Newcastle’s ground for instance, then there would be little chance of fans going.
Where this falls down obviously is when Liverpool play, wherever that would be there will be thousands of scousers there.
Post by: Richard E on May 06, 2020, 01:45:55 PM
Post by: Small Rodent on May 06, 2020, 02:14:11 PM
Post by: frank black on May 06, 2020, 02:16:41 PM
In terms of finding 7 clubs to vote against. I'd have thought Spurs and Arsenal might vote against, that way they won't have the ignominy of finishing 7th/8th and can have another crack at Champions League...
Plus there might be someone else out there who fancies fucking Liverpool over.... the team in 12th ....
I’m not expecting them to void the season, we’ll go down on points per game or project smashthevirususingfootball will happen.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 02:18:30 PM
The more that it becomes inevitable that the football season is over the more you start to see a lot of people’s true colours. And it’s quite ugly. People continue to die at an alarming rate yet many so called leaders clearly could not give a fuck. For the wealthy we are all expendable if they impedes their wealth. Then again for them we always have been behind their fake smiles.
Deep down and maybe not that deep down, we all know that football at least at the PL level has been totally corrupted by money largely through sky, for decades. Add to the farce of the champions league, circulating cash round the few at the top through endless rounds of games as opposed to the old European cup where teams could actually get knocked out after a couple of rounds and teams like villa and forest could win the thing.
We all know this, but because we love the game and our chosen team we choose to at least partially ignore it every weekend, even at 4pm on a rainy Sunday we’re at VP because it suits the money men.
Football mirrors what’s happened with the rest of society over the last 30-40 years.
The govt had stemmed I think social unrest with furlough, but let’s not kid ourselves that their massive underfunding of the nhs and care system over the last decade is one of the reasons we now have the highest death rate in Europe.
At the same big business does everything it can to protect its business model and that largely means f**ing most everyday people over. Virgins letting thousands of staff go as have/will Ryan air and God knows how many other multi nationals, those at the top of those organisations, will not suffer a bean through this.
The premier league is no different
Sky
Wealthy owners
Shareholders
Chief execs
Agents
Players
Managers
Poor feckers on minimum wage or near enough it working at club
Supporters (those subscribing to sky a little higher)
The whole mantra of society pulling together is true in terms of key workers and appreciation for them, but not in terms of the whole of society. Business rolls on, the rich will protect their wealth at any cost, more poorer people will die of covid19 and in the midst of all this the farce that is the PL will restart behind closed doors somewhere. Dirty dirty business this and after loving football and the villa all my life, I’m struggling to care anymore.
Two things above that I have highlighted in bold which are the same and is constantly thrown up. There is no difference in business from a self-employed person, to a person running a business employing 6 people, to one employing 50, 100's or 1000's, they all want to protect the financial side of the business. They all (self-employed excepted) employ other people who rely on those businesses for employment. There isn't big business and the rest, it just scales up from small businesses to the biggest. Integrity is the just the same with the smallest businesses as the biggest, it can be good, it can be bad.
What we are seeing in football now is not like other businesses who can control their own destiny by making their own decisions. Football is a group of businesses and, in the case of the EPL, decisions on the individual clubs are going to be made by committee with outside influence. The lobbying that is going on through the media is unbelievable. Purslow said that not having relegation was not even discussed and yet it was all we have been reading about over the last couple of days. Who is right? I would tend to believe somebody more that says it at an interview than a 'source'. The whipping up of sentiment across social media on this one item alone has been tremendous. The agenda is slanted to becoming an unbalanced discussion. Fairness is being taken off the table by the non-reporting of facts.
Post by: simon ward 50 on May 06, 2020, 02:21:19 PM
If his football knowledge is as good as his geography we are doomed I tell yer!
Post by: chrisw1 on May 06, 2020, 02:23:07 PM
I don't see how you could lift the morale (of the many not the few) more than by cancelling Liverpools title and denying Leeds and WBA promotion? Football fans everywhere will be in stiches.Raaab the c*** said it’s to lift the morale of the country, so surely everyone will welcome valuable resources being diverted to football.Unless they are completely on top of testing which I doubt, will the general public be ok with resources being used in this way?LMA Chief now expecting the season to be cancelled if 14 of the teams can't agree to the neutral venues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225)40,000 tests to keep the game going and the government still only hitting 80,000 there is no way are they restarting any time soon.
But that is 40k over a 8 week period so just over 700 a day? Mind you, still a fair whack of the daily number.
Hurrah !
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 02:41:29 PM
Few things I don’t get. You need the pyramid under us to go ahead under same conditions. So what’s gonna happen for neutral stadiums for the 400+ outstanding champ/league1 and 2 matches?I think the neutral ground is more designed to prevent fans from travelling/congregating at stadiums.
Secondly - irony is we can’t play home games as neutral has to be used according to police, however Villa park will be one of the chosen neutral venues to be used which we then can’t play at!?
Harsh as it sounds, if police say your own ground is not safe under current conditions to play then it’s case by case and tough shit. Why should we lose home matches!? It’s all self serving crap so why give in to the ££££top 6££££££
FairPlay to Purslow for standing our ground and reiterating how his job is for the interests of ASTON VILLA and no one else
If Villa were to play Arsenal at Newcastle’s ground for instance, then there would be little chance of fans going.
Where this falls down obviously is when Liverpool play, wherever that would be there will be thousands of scousers there.
I have heard about the neutral venues for the EPL but has anything been said about the Championship, Division 1 and 2. For the EPL, there will probably still be 300 (10 clubs x 30) extra people travelling around the country and possibly requiring hotels etc. The neutral venues solution is purely to try and get the Government on side but I bet it hasn't come with a detailed logistics exercise to go with it.
How is the EFL going to be bought off, as there have been quotes that clubs will lose money completing their fixtures behind closed doors. I think the EFL are holding out to negotiate a change to the financial structure of football in this country based on the recent quotes from Parry. If this fails, I think they will fold and void the season. Relatively, they have more to lose financially by starting up again. They will then be in the 'how to decide promotion/relegation' without the massive money to cloud the issue. Possibly, only two (or three) teams stand to gain anything from holding out for promotion to the PL and could sway the voting to accept just voiding the season as soon as possible. This could then make the EPL decision to play on, easier.
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 06, 2020, 02:46:33 PM
Post by: andyh on May 06, 2020, 02:47:03 PM
Are there really that many fans who don't give a shit about the health of others enough that they'd go to the ground to shuffle about doing nothing?Now, you know you know the answer to that.
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 06, 2020, 02:49:38 PM
"Raaab the c*** said it’s to lift the morale of the country, so surely everyone will welcome valuable resources being diverted to football."
If his football knowledge is as good as his geography we are doomed I tell yer!
Raab is either not a football fan, or, if he is, not a fan of a club with the propensity to make far too many Saturday afternoons a misery.
Post by: Ad@m on May 06, 2020, 02:49:53 PM
Purslow talking well, highlightsI would be interested to hear him expand on his point regarding neutral venues, what conditions would be right to give back the home advantage?
- wont agree to neutral venues unless 'conditions right' as obviously its a disadvantage
- player health - nowhere near enough info as yet one medical side
I'd say the particular condition he's talking about is the removal of the risk of relegation.
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 06, 2020, 03:41:41 PM
I wonder at what point they realise that this obsession to get this season finished will really mess up next season too.
Post by: Mister E on May 06, 2020, 04:44:00 PM
The mere description of what is being touted smacks of the same complacency that Johnson had at the start of all of this.
Post by: David_Nab on May 06, 2020, 04:45:32 PM
PL want to play NV BCD
Championship want to play BCD at own grounds
L1/L2 can't afford to play with no fans
National leagues suspended and they trying to work out what to do
So basically there is no consistency between the leagues
As for teams other than bottom 6 voting to not play , can't see it myself as for most of them they need the TV cash.Spurs have just lost the Joshua fight and NFL games estimated to cost them millions in revenue.The league look like allowing more subs and relaxing requirements to play strong teams.Teams with nothing to play for will turn up jog around and see out their contract to play games.
Post by: DB on May 06, 2020, 04:56:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 06, 2020, 05:36:38 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 06, 2020, 06:14:26 PM
Post by: OCD on May 06, 2020, 06:23:52 PM
Also a question of whether you start next season in neutral venues and how that would work. The quicker they can finalise the current questions, the more time they have to figure out how next season will work.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 06, 2020, 06:27:04 PM
I think you can be sure we are not going along with it.
Post by: Rory on May 06, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
If ignore the grubbiness of it all for a moment, I’d be absolutely staggered if relegation doesn’t get scrapped. They’re talking about fundamental changes to the competition, which make it completely imbalanced. There would be massive lawsuits from any club who was relegated and they’d probably win.
That's the crux for me, as well. The whole season up until now has been played with the understanding that each team will face the other 19, home and away, under pre-agreed conditions and over a certain period of time. The variables were pre-acknowledged.
Never mind whether the remaining fixtures would be legitimate; how can the season from August-March be considered valid when its entire context has gone out the window? It could legitimately be argued that plans and decisions were made by all clubs prior to the lockdown that affected results and performance (transfers, tactics, team selections) which have been removed from the context in which they were made.
It is nobody's fault that the landscape has changed, but the extent to which it has removes legitimacy not only from the remaining games but from the whole season up until now, in my opinion.
The determination of the governing bodies to resume under any circumstances shows how little they understand - or if they do understand, how little they value - the nuances of the game. Resuming the season with any significant modifications to how it began betrays a lack of understanding of team sports, individual psychology and the unpredictable nature of the interaction of variables that makes any sport worthwhile. It isn't just a fixture written on paper; you can't just dramatically alter the environment and expect continuity of performance and results.
If the PL were baking a cake, this isn't only an adjustment in timings but also ingredients. The end result being that it isn't going to be the same fucking cake you set out to make.
And in case Brassneck magically reappears: Yes, I want Villa to stay up; yes, I would find it hilarious if Liverpool were denied the title and Leeds denied promotion (don't give a shit about WBA). But to claim two different sets of results reached within hugely different contexts can be consolidated into one fair and coherent whole is bollocks, regardless of its victims and beneficiaries.
Post by: David_Nab on May 06, 2020, 07:41:38 PM
No fans and no team celebrations ..brilliant viewing this will be
Post by: Steve67 on May 06, 2020, 07:55:40 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/06/premier-league-ban-team-celebrations-shirt-swapping-spitting/
No fans and no team celebrations ..brilliant viewing this will be
But mugging each other at corner kicks will still continue to be ignored by referee's, but allowed to happen non the same.
Post by: LeeB on May 06, 2020, 07:55:58 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 06, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
Smith is jumping on touchline with Terry ..banned to the stands ? A fine
Post by: paul_e on May 06, 2020, 08:05:14 PM
From earlier I agree with the posts saying that ensuring next season goes ahead is much more important than trying to finish this, that's been my view all along and it's why I think the idea of finishing this season in the Autumn is such a poor one.
If this season isn't completed then maybe some clubs get into trouble, which would be terrible but if we lose a full season I can see a huge chunk of championship, league 1 and league 2 clubs going to the wall, and probably a few from the prem, that would be, in my opinion, irreparable damage to the game in this country.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 06, 2020, 08:13:47 PM
Why would you ignore the grubbiness? That's the entire motivation. The clubs at the top will bully the less fortunate to get their own way.
I was talking more generally, in that my default position is that it shouldn’t restart at this time because it’s abhorrent but even if I park that it’s still fucking stupid.
Post by: andyh on May 06, 2020, 08:24:37 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/06/premier-league-ban-team-celebrations-shirt-swapping-spitting/Project restart was always a load of bollocks.
No fans and no team celebrations ..brilliant viewing this will be
Now it’s just ridiculous fucking bollocks.
Post by: john e on May 06, 2020, 08:50:11 PM
It feels like ongoing negotiations. I would have thought the compromise would be to finish the season, to 'lift the spirits of the nation' but remove the threat of relegation. You then shift the issue to what you're going to do about promotion to next year's competition.
Also a question of whether you start next season in neutral venues and how that would work. The quicker they can finalise the current questions, the more time they have to figure out how next season will work.
in my opinion there is zero chance they will play out the rest of the season with no relegation
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 06, 2020, 08:50:14 PM
All of them are meant to have been tested for Covid and this going ahead under safe parameters.
If you can’t hug your teammate this screams out it’s totally not safe
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 06, 2020, 09:32:43 PM
Why all these restrictions during the match!? That implies it’s not actually safe to be around other people!!
All of them are meant to have been tested for Covid and this going ahead under safe parameters.
If you can’t hug your teammate this screams out it’s totally not safe
There is no way it can be be safe and I would repeat the point I made yesterday, what happens if as a result of playing in a game, a player contracts the virus as a direct result of playing, as such, although he may recover may be to invalided to play football ever again, people are saying that have got over the virus that they just can't get straight again, breathless, weak, lifeless as a result of having Covid, point is will clubs be held accountable for ending a players career, even life and will the government be held accountable for being blatantly reckless with peoples lives and health. That said, lets remember this is a government or party that introduced Austerity.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 06, 2020, 10:16:44 PM
The players are not going to put themselves at risk and why should they.
Post by: phantom limb on May 06, 2020, 10:41:21 PM
Post by: nick harper on May 06, 2020, 10:51:28 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 06, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Quote
However, one club told Mirror Sport they fear they will get as little as two or three days of full contact training before the games resume because the Premier League don't want to risk the chances of infection - and that would be asking for trouble.
Players would be thrust back into full action on the back of a long lay-off, staggered training which is a long way from the normal demands of a pre-season and very limited contact sessions - before being asked to play in arguably the most physically demanding league in the world.
The guidelines also state that no soft tissue massages will be allowed and one club medic insisted that some players rely heavily on massages both before and after sessions as their daily routine.
So
1) No proper training before starting to make sure no one test positive so they can get games played
2) No massages etc FFS this are athletes this is ridiculous
Post by: andyh on May 06, 2020, 11:03:42 PM
Post by: Villafirst on May 06, 2020, 11:07:12 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 06, 2020, 11:21:30 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/c3pXFBL/88-AF13-D1-7-D44-4-A55-92-AB-9-B1-A484-EA99-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c3pXFBL)
Allegedly some detail of the lockdown lift. IF TRUE then premier league has zero chance of re starting surely!?
Post by: john2710 on May 06, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
If it’s all so fucking dangerous, why are they fucking planning to do it?Money......
Post by: Des Little on May 06, 2020, 11:36:58 PM
Post by: OzVilla on May 06, 2020, 11:42:47 PM
I'm also coming to terms with the fact that it will probably happen and that $$ and the Govt wanting some decent PR to take peoples attention away from the death toll will ultimately win the day.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 06, 2020, 11:49:41 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-proposals-project-restart-21986815QuoteHowever, one club told Mirror Sport they fear they will get as little as two or three days of full contact training before the games resume because the Premier League don't want to risk the chances of infection - and that would be asking for trouble.
Players would be thrust back into full action on the back of a long lay-off, staggered training which is a long way from the normal demands of a pre-season and very limited contact sessions - before being asked to play in arguably the most physically demanding league in the world.
The guidelines also state that no soft tissue massages will be allowed and one club medic insisted that some players rely heavily on massages both before and after sessions as their daily routine.
So
1) No proper training before starting to make sure no one test positive so they can get games played
2) No massages etc FFS this are athletes this is ridiculous
Does The Mirror make this up (the answer is probably yes) as it sounds more Sunday League than Premier League. Currently clubs decide how they train players and much of that is personalised but now they are going to be told how they must do it. This is getting more ridiculous by the day. If they are saying it is not going to be safe training and preparing players properly, how can they agree to restart playing matches.
Next on the agenda (i) how do players get to the ground in a safe manner (ii) where do they get changed.
Post by: David_Nab on May 06, 2020, 11:51:42 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-proposals-project-restart-21986815QuoteHowever, one club told Mirror Sport they fear they will get as little as two or three days of full contact training before the games resume because the Premier League don't want to risk the chances of infection - and that would be asking for trouble.
Players would be thrust back into full action on the back of a long lay-off, staggered training which is a long way from the normal demands of a pre-season and very limited contact sessions - before being asked to play in arguably the most physically demanding league in the world.
The guidelines also state that no soft tissue massages will be allowed and one club medic insisted that some players rely heavily on massages both before and after sessions as their daily routine.
So
1) No proper training before starting to make sure no one test positive so they can get games played
2) No massages etc FFS this are athletes this is ridiculous
Does The Mirror make this up (the answer is probably yes) as it sounds more Sunday League than Premier League. Currently clubs decide how they train players and much of that is personalised but now they are going to be told how they must do it. This is getting more ridiculous by the day. If they are saying it is not going to be safe training and preparing players properly, how can they agree to restart playing matches.
Next on the agenda (i) how do players get to the ground in a safe manner (ii) where do they get changed.
They have to drive in alone and leave in training gear and wash at home , only allowed to go inside to use the toilets
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 07, 2020, 12:08:03 AM
Leaked” 5 phrase easing of lockdown.
On that it suggests October for a return of ( behind closed door ) football.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 07, 2020, 12:16:26 AM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-proposals-project-restart-21986815QuoteHowever, one club told Mirror Sport they fear they will get as little as two or three days of full contact training before the games resume because the Premier League don't want to risk the chances of infection - and that would be asking for trouble.
Players would be thrust back into full action on the back of a long lay-off, staggered training which is a long way from the normal demands of a pre-season and very limited contact sessions - before being asked to play in arguably the most physically demanding league in the world.
The guidelines also state that no soft tissue massages will be allowed and one club medic insisted that some players rely heavily on massages both before and after sessions as their daily routine.
So
1) No proper training before starting to make sure no one test positive so they can get games played
2) No massages etc FFS this are athletes this is ridiculous
Does The Mirror make this up (the answer is probably yes) as it sounds more Sunday League than Premier League. Currently clubs decide how they train players and much of that is personalised but now they are going to be told how they must do it. This is getting more ridiculous by the day. If they are saying it is not going to be safe training and preparing players properly, how can they agree to restart playing matches.
Next on the agenda (i) how do players get to the ground in a safe manner (ii) where do they get changed.
They have to drive in alone and leave in training gear and wash at home , only allowed to go inside to use the toilets
Interesting if a player doesn't drive or is banned.
Highly trained athletes being treated like pub team players. Apologies, I used to help run a pub team and we would never treat our players like that.
Post by: Hillbilly on May 07, 2020, 01:18:39 AM
The more i'm seeing and hearing about this the more i'm convinced that this whole scenario is utterly obscene and literally playing Russian roulette with both players and support staff. People will congregate to watch games in pub lock ins and house parties, we all know football and football fans, i'm 100% certain it will happen. Similar to Cheltenham and the Liverpool Champions League game that will lead to avoidable infections and most probably more deaths.Oz, did you watch any of the AFL round where they played behind closed doors? I watched Richmond v Carlton and it was just plain wrong. I think the novelty would have lasted about one more round and people would have stopped tuning in.
I'm also coming to terms with the fact that it will probably happen and that $$ and the Govt wanting some decent PR to take peoples attention away from the death toll will ultimately win the day.
Post by: OzVilla on May 07, 2020, 02:12:36 AM
For those in the UK, Richmond v Carlton is traditionally the opening game of the AFL season, played at the MCG with around 90,000 people there.
Post by: sid1964 on May 07, 2020, 06:40:33 AM
Therefore we can have no real argument if they decide to relegate us as 90% on here, don't want us to play anymore football this season, so we can all look forward to the Championship next season - imagine Reading away no fans in the ground - cant wait to watch the highlights of that one! at least we will have Hogan back up front - not sure who will be in midfield as most of the current lot be long gone, don't blame them who wants to play in the championship!
But I would like to see the premier league expanded for next season (whenever that starts) to include the current 20 teams + top 2 of the championship - no European football and no league cup games, then at the end of that season the bottom 5 are relegated.
Post by: frank black on May 07, 2020, 07:06:41 AM
May I suggest we need a good start in June.
Post by: aev on May 07, 2020, 07:33:05 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 07, 2020, 07:49:22 AM
Post by: LeeB on May 07, 2020, 08:20:10 AM
Personally no further games should be played - finish the league as it is - if that means relegation for us, we will just have to accept it, as most have said on here that they are very concerned about the safety of the players and staff of Aston Villa so no further games should be played
Therefore we can have no real argument if they decide to relegate us as 90% on here, don't want us to play anymore football this season, so we can all look forward to the Championship next season - imagine Reading away no fans in the ground - cant wait to watch the highlights of that one! at least we will have Hogan back up front - not sure who will be in midfield as most of the current lot be long gone, don't blame them who wants to play in the championship!
But I would like to see the premier league expanded for next season (whenever that starts) to include the current 20 teams + top 2 of the championship - no European football and no league cup games, then at the end of that season the bottom 5 are relegated.
We're 2 points from safety with a home game against Sheff Utd in hand, and you'd just accept being relegated?
I'm fucking glad your not in charge of my club.
Post by: The Edge on May 07, 2020, 08:30:00 AM
Personally no further games should be played - finish the league as it is - if that means relegation for us, we will just have to accept it, as most have said on here that they are very concerned about the safety of the players and staff of Aston Villa so no further games should be playedMost people on here,myself included, want the season to be played out but only when it's safe to do so. Personally i think the whole behind closed doors on a neutral venue is a load of bollocks where the only agenda is money and making sure the "elite" clubs get their place at the european cash cow. Why would any Villa supporter or official accept relegation when we have played one less game than our relegation rivals?
Therefore we can have no real argument if they decide to relegate us as 90% on here, don't want us to play anymore football this season, so we can all look forward to the Championship next season - imagine Reading away no fans in the ground - cant wait to watch the highlights of that one! at least we will have Hogan back up front - not sure who will be in midfield as most of the current lot be long gone, don't blame them who wants to play in the championship!
But I would like to see the premier league expanded for next season (whenever that starts) to include the current 20 teams + top 2 of the championship - no European football and no league cup games, then at the end of that season the bottom 5 are relegated.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 07, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
Yet sid1964 is consistent in wanting the bitters promoted (or is it leeds?) however it's done. I wonder why?
Post by: Dick Edwards on May 07, 2020, 09:40:28 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 07, 2020, 09:44:33 AM
Exactly. Whatever the rights and wrongs of restarting one thing we should absolutely not do is accecpt the financial catastrophe of relegation just to be nice.Personally no further games should be played - finish the league as it is - if that means relegation for us, we will just have to accept it, as most have said on here that they are very concerned about the safety of the players and staff of Aston Villa so no further games should be played
Therefore we can have no real argument if they decide to relegate us as 90% on here, don't want us to play anymore football this season, so we can all look forward to the Championship next season - imagine Reading away no fans in the ground - cant wait to watch the highlights of that one! at least we will have Hogan back up front - not sure who will be in midfield as most of the current lot be long gone, don't blame them who wants to play in the championship!
But I would like to see the premier league expanded for next season (whenever that starts) to include the current 20 teams + top 2 of the championship - no European football and no league cup games, then at the end of that season the bottom 5 are relegated.
We're 2 points from safety with a home game against Sheff Utd in hand, and you'd just accept being relegated?
I'm fucking glad your not in charge of my club.
Fuck that, we should fight for our survival in the PL, whether that is on the pitch or in the Court rooms.
If the season is played out, the top 6 insisitng on relegation just to keep the integrity of their European places is selfish in the extreme. Yeah, we'll bend over and take a £200m hit just so your cash cow remains intact.
Post by: curiousorange on May 07, 2020, 09:59:29 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 07, 2020, 10:04:28 AM
I might have missed it amongst all of the absurd clusterfuck of ideas of project restart but how are the Championship clubs hoping to finish the season whilst maintaining integrity?
Apparently they’re not sure they can as some clubs will struggle to afford it - but regardless Parry still expects promotions to be honoured. And they way Leeds and WBA go on you’d think they were 25 points clear not 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'.
Post by: baddowvillans on May 07, 2020, 10:26:22 AM
Playing Man Utd, Chelsea, Wolves and Arsenal away again doesnt fill me with confidence as all are still going for European places so I wonder just having play offs for the top and bottom teams wouldn't just be fairer. At the bottom end of the table that would put us in a 6 team league where yes we would still be playing on neutral grounds but at least then on the same basis as other teams. If we finish in the bottom 3 of that league we absolutely deserve what we get and will just have to go back to the Championship.
Post by: curiousorange on May 07, 2020, 10:27:45 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 07, 2020, 10:35:26 AM
This is always the trump card they had to force through a vote.
Post by: David_Nab on May 07, 2020, 10:44:42 AM
I might have missed it amongst all of the absurd clusterfuck of ideas of project restart but how are the Championship clubs hoping to finish the season whilst maintaining integrity?
Apparently they’re not sure they can as some clubs will struggle to afford it - but regardless Parry still expects promotions to be honoured. And they way Leeds and WBA go on you’d think they were 25 points clear not 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'.
The championship want to play but L1/L2 say its not affordable with no fans so the EFL has it own split to work out before worrying about PL.
Post by: The Edge on May 07, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
The Daily Mail article says something I was a bit worried about. If the bottom 3 refuse to play they will vote us to be relegated, whether on a ppg or current standing we'd still be fucked.And our very wealthy owners would take the self serving bastards to court.
This is always the trump card they had to force through a vote.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 07, 2020, 10:50:46 AM
The Daily Mail article says something I was a bit worried about. If the bottom 3 refuse to play they will vote us to be relegated, whether on a ppg or current standing we'd still be fucked.And our very wealthy owners would take the self serving bastards to court.
This is always the trump card they had to force through a vote.
Exactly. And they'd win.
Post by: Billy Walker on May 07, 2020, 11:10:39 AM
The Daily Mail article says something I was a bit worried about. If the bottom 3 refuse to play they will vote us to be relegated, whether on a ppg or current standing we'd still be fucked.And our very wealthy owners would take the self serving bastards to court.
This is always the trump card they had to force through a vote.
Yes, and this would possibly delay the Premier League coming back in any shape of form until after the legal dispute is resolved, again, costing the EPL and other clubs millions.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 07, 2020, 11:19:52 AM
I may be remembering incorrectly, but when Sheff Utd were relegated by West Ham's dodgy player ownership weren't they just sent down with compensation agreed at a later date. That said, I can't remember whether it went to court.
Post by: aj2k77 on May 07, 2020, 11:20:24 AM
The Daily Mail article says something I was a bit worried about. If the bottom 3 refuse to play they will vote us to be relegated, whether on a ppg or current standing we'd still be fucked.
This is always the trump card they had to force through a vote.
Relegated after player 28 games and 15 of them away, that would be a hilariously shit decision and one I'm fully expecting them to concoct.
Post by: DB on May 07, 2020, 11:24:27 AM
Post by: Villan82 on May 07, 2020, 11:33:11 AM
See, that's what I don't get about this hankering after relegation. So fine, we play the bowdlerised games and don't do enough to 'stay up', but Leeds and West Brom sit on their arses and get promoted because their league doesn't have the resources to be resolved. Yeah, fair plan.
it's grossly unfair and I think I am done with football. We should be fighting tooth and nail against this rigged game.
Post by: NeilH on May 07, 2020, 11:53:09 AM
Post by: sid1964 on May 07, 2020, 11:53:34 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on May 07, 2020, 11:56:53 AM
Just to put some perspective into the whole will they/won't they closed doors/neutral grounds affair. The government here has just announced that no large scale events will take place until a vaccine is found and being distributed. That means Eredivisie football being played behind closed doors for potentially a year and the only way to watch your team play will be online; details of how this will be organized and if it will be through a subscription base are obviously still to be fleshed out.
Interesting. Ta
Ive got pretty much zero interest in watching Villa on a laptop on my own.
Post by: Richard E on May 07, 2020, 11:57:12 AM
So if Purslow fails to get his way and we are relegated - does he get the sack?
For not being able to control how others vote?
Post by: The Edge on May 07, 2020, 11:59:14 AM
So if Purslow fails to get his way and we are relegated - does he get the sack?And why would he get the sack? Please explain.
Post by: Risso on May 07, 2020, 12:04:54 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on May 07, 2020, 12:11:32 PM
Sod that! I've no interest in doing that either. Going to games is what having a season ticket's all about! Problem is, would I ever get another one for when we can go back if I don't sign up for an related online subscription devised by the club next season?Just to put some perspective into the whole will they/won't they closed doors/neutral grounds affair. The government here has just announced that no large scale events will take place until a vaccine is found and being distributed. That means Eredivisie football being played behind closed doors for potentially a year and the only way to watch your team play will be online; details of how this will be organized and if it will be through a subscription base are obviously still to be fleshed out.
Interesting. Ta
Ive got pretty much zero interest in watching Villa on a laptop on my own.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 07, 2020, 12:56:40 PM
Sod that! I've no interest in doing that either. Going to games is what having a season ticket's all about! Problem is, would I ever get another one for when we can go back if I don't sign up for an related online subscription devised by the club next season?Just to put some perspective into the whole will they/won't they closed doors/neutral grounds affair. The government here has just announced that no large scale events will take place until a vaccine is found and being distributed. That means Eredivisie football being played behind closed doors for potentially a year and the only way to watch your team play will be online; details of how this will be organized and if it will be through a subscription base are obviously still to be fleshed out.
Interesting. Ta
Ive got pretty much zero interest in watching Villa on a laptop on my own.
I think that would be very poor thinking by the Club if that was the case, although I think they understand the fans better than that. They should be putting season tickets on hold until it goes back to normal and giving current season ticket holders the opportunity to continue from this season, with a discount for lost matches this season. Anything for a behind closed doors season via TV should be separate as they would not be limited by numbers.
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 07, 2020, 01:08:57 PM
I know it doesn't involve the Villa (as per most years) but since it's reached the quarter final stage that means seven games and it's complete. Why not use that as a yardstick as to how workable BCD etc is? It would also be a useful gauge as to how supporters can/can't be trusted not to congregate in the event of a trophy being won.
Post by: frank black on May 07, 2020, 01:13:21 PM
As days and weeks merge into one, could someone please remind me what's happening with the FA Cup?
I know it doesn't involve the Villa (as per most years) but since it's reached the quarter final stage that means seven games and it's complete. Why not use that as a yardstick as to how workable BCD etc is? It would also be a useful gauge as to how supporters can/can't be trusted not to congregate in the event of a trophy being won.
They are planning to include the fa cup within project restart.
Did we get any clarity from the premier league yet about how they will deal with a team forced to go into quarantine? Which is a very likely situation at any point. They’re surely not going to extend things by two weeks every time?
Post by: aev on May 07, 2020, 01:18:45 PM
As days and weeks merge into one, could someone please remind me what's happening with the FA Cup?
I know it doesn't involve the Villa (as per most years) but since it's reached the quarter final stage that means seven games and it's complete. Why not use that as a yardstick as to how workable BCD etc is? It would also be a useful gauge as to how supporters can/can't be trusted not to congregate in the event of a trophy being won.
It is being played on Rod Stewart's 5 a side pitch.
Post by: TopDeck113 on May 07, 2020, 01:28:06 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 07, 2020, 01:38:24 PM
Parachute payment was a sticking plaster solution that seemed to work to some extent but with the tightening up of FFP, the effectiveness of the payments has been lost. Due to the disparity between EPL and EFL regarding players' wages and income, and to truly fall within FFP, relegated clubs can see themselves falling to a level that is below being competitive for promotion the next season. Is this right that a team that is in the EPL one season, can be on the verge of going out of business or, at best, non-competitive the following season.
There has to be a levelling up financially between the EPL and EFL so that we do not have this cliff edge or do you reduce the risk to clubs by reducing the number of relegation places.
Post by: Ian. on May 07, 2020, 01:52:07 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 07, 2020, 02:21:24 PM
This will never happen. The big clubs won't even allow a levelling up in the PL itself. The gap in income top to bottom is ridiculous given all clubs are part of the same product. In my view TV money should be split much more equally. You can argue some clubs are on a lot more, but then they benefit from the extra sponsorship revenue this brings.
There has to be a levelling up financially between the EPL and EFL so that we do not have this cliff edge or do you reduce the risk to clubs by reducing the number of relegation places.
I'd also make prize money gaps smaller. Unless this is addressed you'll always have an increasing gap between the big and small.
Post by: Mister E on May 07, 2020, 02:26:19 PM
Well if Germany are going to start their season again on May 16th, I’m pretty sure that will be enough of a green light for our league to proceed not long after.Germany have c.7,000 deaths and stable; we've had >30,000 and continuing.
That's no yardstick at all.
Post by: Villan82 on May 07, 2020, 02:38:44 PM
As days and weeks merge into one, could someone please remind me what's happening with the FA Cup?
I know it doesn't involve the Villa (as per most years) but since it's reached the quarter final stage that means seven games and it's complete. Why not use that as a yardstick as to how workable BCD etc is? It would also be a useful gauge as to how supporters can/can't be trusted not to congregate in the event of a trophy being won.
They are planning to include the fa cup within project restart.
Did we get any clarity from the premier league yet about how they will deal with a team forced to go into quarantine? Which is a very likely situation at any point. They’re surely not going to extend things by two weeks every time?
The bit in bold, there will probably be a by-law passed to state that in cases where the club is named 'Aston Villa' the affected club will face immediate relegation and a 12 point deduction at the start of the following season.
Post by: David_Nab on May 07, 2020, 02:40:24 PM
Could see likes of United able to sell millions and once that's opened up good luck trying to reverse it
Why Neutral grounds if Championship is playing home and away ..
Post by: Lucky Eddie on May 07, 2020, 02:58:21 PM
Sod that! I've no interest in doing that either. Going to games is what having a season ticket's all about! Problem is, would I ever get another one for when we can go back if I don't sign up for an related online subscription devised by the club next season?Just to put some perspective into the whole will they/won't they closed doors/neutral grounds affair. The government here has just announced that no large scale events will take place until a vaccine is found and being distributed. That means Eredivisie football being played behind closed doors for potentially a year and the only way to watch your team play will be online; details of how this will be organized and if it will be through a subscription base are obviously still to be fleshed out.
Interesting. Ta
Ive got pretty much zero interest in watching Villa on a laptop on my own.
I can’t see how they could use on online viewing contract as a continuation of a season ticket renewal. How would that work where multiple season ticket holders live at the same address and would (may) only require one live feed for all?
I like to dream that this crisis could result in a refreshed appreciation of the match going public, but it won’t so I’ve rooted myself in the ‘Don’t care what they do as long as liverpool aren’t awarded the title’ camp.
I think that’s called reverting to type.
Post by: Ian. on May 07, 2020, 04:08:05 PM
Well if Germany are going to start their season again on May 16th, I’m pretty sure that will be enough of a green light for our league to proceed not long after.Germany have c.7,000 deaths and stable; we've had >30,000 and continuing.
That's no yardstick at all.
I was thinking along the lines of the us not doing the right thing but still going ahead anyway because another nation has already.
Post by: David_Nab on May 07, 2020, 04:58:08 PM
Post by: nick harper on May 07, 2020, 05:15:25 PM
Well if Germany are going to start their season again on May 16th, I’m pretty sure that will be enough of a green light for our league to proceed not long after.Germany have c.7,000 deaths and stable; we've had >30,000 and continuing.
That's no yardstick at all.
To reiterate this, another 539 deaths and 5,600 new cases here. This country seems a long way behind other countries and that should be the same for football.
Post by: Des Little on May 07, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Post by: aev on May 07, 2020, 05:27:38 PM
And yet this is what they are going to do.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 07, 2020, 05:29:46 PM
Listening to this press conference you’d be amazed if football can return any time soon.I doubt it.
And yet this is what they are going to do.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 07, 2020, 06:08:50 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 07, 2020, 06:24:18 PM
Cannot see how this goes ahead medically let alone the clubs singing up to losing squad members and yet expected to play matches
Post by: Steve67 on May 07, 2020, 06:26:46 PM
Simon Jordan today (https://talksport.com/football/703079/premier-league-should-not-return-liverpool-title-leeds-promoted-simon-jordan/)
Loves the sound of his own voice but he does talk some sense.
Post by: Des Little on May 07, 2020, 06:43:09 PM
Reaches for tin helmet...
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 07, 2020, 07:29:40 PM
Post by: Ian. on May 07, 2020, 07:51:46 PM
Listening to this press conference you’d be amazed if football can return any time soon.I’m convinced they will too. I also reckon the Government will rush things back as week so will not intervene.
And yet this is what they are going to do.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 07, 2020, 08:18:05 PM
Post by: The Edge on May 07, 2020, 09:07:04 PM
So if Purslow fails to get his way and we are relegated - does he get the sack?So you pose this loaded question then don't respond to the answers?
Post by: Steve67 on May 07, 2020, 09:17:39 PM
Post by: Dick Edwards on May 07, 2020, 09:50:05 PM
But even if we won all of our remaining games I still would have the same negative opinion of Project Restart. Finishing the season would be preferable, but not at any cost, and that's exactly what the authorities appear to be pushing for. It's so flawed. There are so many questions that require answers.
Post by: walsall villain on May 07, 2020, 09:57:55 PM
I like to think I'm looking at Project Restart as a football fan, not just as a Villa fan. For what it's worth, I think playing behind closed doors might actually suit Villa. Smith has said in the past that the players perform in training but don't always transfer that form to the matches.I take no notice of any manager claiming ‘we perform well in training’. Lambert was one for saying it. Our not very good strikers might look good against our weak defence (or vice versa).
But even if we won all of our remaining games I still would have the same negative opinion of Project Restart. Finishing the season would be preferable, but not at any cost, and that's exactly what the authorities appear to be pushing for. It's so flawed. There are so many questions that require answers.
Post by: Richard E on May 07, 2020, 10:15:07 PM
Post by: walsall villain on May 07, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
All managers say it, don’t they?Yep. They also like to praise the intensity in training, fans would expect that anyway. You can throw ‘great spirit amongst this group’ in there also.
Post by: Steve67 on May 07, 2020, 10:31:25 PM
Post by: Richard E on May 07, 2020, 10:32:21 PM
Dean has also said that his teams generally get better as the season draws on.
Do they normally leave it this late?
Post by: Steve67 on May 07, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Dean has also said that his teams generally get better as the season draws on.
Do they normally leave it this late?
I'm yet to see any evidence of improvement at all Richard!
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 08, 2020, 12:26:07 AM
Even if you can get past all the other arguments around playing out the league not being a true reflection of everyone playing 38 games, that's a huge problem to get around
One team might play at Anfield six months ago against a
Liverpool team at full strength, another team might play them with five or six of their best players refusing to play.
There just is not a workable, acceptable (in terms of resources allocation) and fair way to play this out.
All this wriggling around on the hook is undignified, totally money driven and just shows that they care even less about the fans than we thought they did
Post by: olaftab on May 08, 2020, 01:07:22 AM
Yes often on their best form late May and early June.Dean has also said that his teams generally get better as the season draws on.
Do they normally leave it this late?
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 08, 2020, 04:45:40 AM
Interesting quote from Chris Wilder today who said that if any of their players said they'd rather not take the risk, they'd let them not play.
Even if you can get past all the other arguments around playing out the league not being a true reflection of everyone playing 38 games, that's a huge problem to get around
One team might play at Anfield six months ago against a
Liverpool team at full strength, another team might play them with five or six of their best players refusing to play.
There just is not a workable, acceptable (in terms of resources allocation) and fair way to play this out.
All this wriggling around on the hook is undignified, totally money driven and just shows that they care even less about the fans than we thought they did
In all likelihood, Liverpool will play their strongest possible side to wrap up the title then all of a sudden the entire first team won't want to play anymore. Every team after that will play against their youth XI.
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 06:56:38 AM
Dean has also said that his teams generally get better as the season draws on.
We're fkd then as the season is effectively starting again.
Post by: OzVilla on May 08, 2020, 07:10:02 AM
Interesting quote from Chris Wilder today who said that if any of their players said they'd rather not take the risk, they'd let them not play.
Even if you can get past all the other arguments around playing out the league not being a true reflection of everyone playing 38 games, that's a huge problem to get around
One team might play at Anfield six months ago against a
Liverpool team at full strength, another team might play them with five or six of their best players refusing to play.
There just is not a workable, acceptable (in terms of resources allocation) and fair way to play this out.
All this wriggling around on the hook is undignified, totally money driven and just shows that they care even less about the fans than we thought they did
In all likelihood, Liverpool will play their strongest possible side to wrap up the title then all of a sudden the entire first team won't want to play anymore. Every team after that will play against their youth XI.
Agreed, just even more integrity contradictions but as it’s Liverpool no one will bat an eyelid.
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 07:12:57 AM
"Premier League clubs opposed to the idea of playing their remaining matches at neutral venues once the competition restarts must realise people’s lives are at stake and football concerns should take a back seat, British police have said.
Mark Roberts, the national lead for football policing, told Sky he was concerned about some of the comments he had heard regarding the conditions for restarting the league, which was suspended in mid-March due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Brighton & Hove Albion chief executive Paul Barber said his team were opposed to surrendering home advantage and Christian Purslow, his counterpart at Aston Villa, said relegation would be a 200 million pounds catastrophe.
“The things that are starting to concern me a little as we get closer to a potential restart are comments we’re hearing on the margins by people involved in football,” Deputy Chief Constable Roberts said.
“... Comments such as ‘we might get relegated’, ‘we don’t want to play at neutral venues,’ ‘when we played them away there were fans in the stadium’, ‘we play at home without fans that’s a disadvantage’, ‘we want to get the trophy’.
“I get this in a football context that these are all a big deal. But in the context where 30,000 people have died (in the UK) and the total is still going up, then it’s not such a big deal.
“We want to work with football... get the season back going for the commercial reasons, for the morale reasons ... but we have to remind ourselves that cannot be at the risk of putting a single further life in jeopardy,” Roberts said."
Post by: OzVilla on May 08, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
People WILL be infected if football returns, players and fans who will inevitably congregate to watch games. That’s almost unavoidable if it goes ahead.
Im getting a bit fed up seeing everyone having a pop when I honestly think the stance of those clubs opposing neutral venues is perfectly understandable and goes to the heart of the integrity of the competition.
Post by: john2710 on May 08, 2020, 07:27:46 AM
Post by: Steve67 on May 08, 2020, 07:38:46 AM
From Reuters via SKY...
"Premier League clubs opposed to the idea of playing their remaining matches at neutral venues once the competition restarts must realise people’s lives are at stake and football concerns should take a back seat, British police have said.
Mark Roberts, the national lead for football policing, told Sky he was concerned about some of the comments he had heard regarding the conditions for restarting the league, which was suspended in mid-March due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Brighton & Hove Albion chief executive Paul Barber said his team were opposed to surrendering home advantage and Christian Purslow, his counterpart at Aston Villa, said relegation would be a 200 million pounds catastrophe.
“The things that are starting to concern me a little as we get closer to a potential restart are comments we’re hearing on the margins by people involved in football,” Deputy Chief Constable Roberts said.
“... Comments such as ‘we might get relegated’, ‘we don’t want to play at neutral venues,’ ‘when we played them away there were fans in the stadium’, ‘we play at home without fans that’s a disadvantage’, ‘we want to get the trophy’.
“I get this in a football context that these are all a big deal. But in the context where 30,000 people have died (in the UK) and the total is still going up, then it’s not such a big deal.
“We want to work with football... get the season back going for the commercial reasons, for the morale reasons ... but we have to remind ourselves that cannot be at the risk of putting a single further life in jeopardy,” Roberts said."
Not aimed at you aev. Boost morale? How? With us playing all our games away and not being allowed to cheer them on? That's the absolute opposite of a boost. There is a risk to life still, regardless of those comments. I wonder if he will be saying the same when the police and Liverpool fans clash as Liverpool claim the title for the first time in 30 years and the Liverpool fans take to Bournemouth beach to celebrate. I'm sure that won't have any negative effect on the resources for the police or the NHS. Also interesting that he mentioned the trophy item last, like he'd just remembered to throw that in. The man is a twat, a government driven cockwomble. Getting football back, under the same conditions that we played previously, would be a boost, if safe to do so and if the integrity of the competition was not compromised.
Post by: Ad@m on May 08, 2020, 07:40:13 AM
Post by: Steve67 on May 08, 2020, 07:41:57 AM
Wild stab in the dark here, but is he a Liverpool fan by any chance?
I thought exactly the same. Or a Leeds/Albion/Leicester/Man Yoo fan.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 08, 2020, 07:50:44 AM
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 08:00:07 AM
As pauliewalnuts said, undignified hook wriggling.
Post by: The Edge on May 08, 2020, 08:17:56 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 08, 2020, 08:33:44 AM
Post by: themossman on May 08, 2020, 08:36:33 AM
It either matters or it doesn’t matter you thick twat (and it doesn’t matter).
Post by: Drummond on May 08, 2020, 08:51:33 AM
No fans, handshakes, spitting, talking to teammates too closely etc.
My guess right now is that the government want the game to resume to distract half the population (morale), and for people to focus on football rather than the lack of PPE and the huge number of deaths we've had.
Post by: Ad@m on May 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
Post by: frank black on May 08, 2020, 09:00:27 AM
Post by: brian green on May 08, 2020, 09:01:14 AM
Post by: curiousorange on May 08, 2020, 10:07:37 AM
Post by: eamonn on May 08, 2020, 10:25:29 AM
Post by: themossman on May 08, 2020, 10:41:31 AM
Is see the Korean league starts today and streamed on BBC at 11am. That will give an idea of what it would look like I think.
No fans, handshakes, spitting, talking to teammates too closely etc.
My guess right now is that the government want the game to resume to distract half the population (morale), and for people to focus on football rather than the lack of PPE and the huge number of deaths we've had.
‘Let them watch football.’
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 11:23:15 AM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 08, 2020, 11:37:51 AM
The Athletic reporting Leagues One and Two will be finished this week, with a weighted home/away points per game applied to the remaining fixtures to decide final standings. God knows what the calculation might be but as our home form is better and we have more home games left...
Seen someone say for us:
6 home games left (71% of points) = 12.78 (rounded to 13 points), 4 away games (29% of points) =3.48 (rounded down to 3 points). Total = 16 points from remaining 10 games.
Currently 25 points + 16 points = 41
That right?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 08, 2020, 11:38:11 AM
Then there's people who don't even actively dislike football, those just nonplussed about the whole thing normally. They'll be wondering why on earth us trogs get our game back, yet virtually every aspect of their lives remain prohibitively affected.
I think it's a massive stretch. It's not like we're all cheering on the national sides, they're expecting things like Crystal Palace vs Burnley to somehow lift the nation's spirits.
Post by: Steve67 on May 08, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
The Athletic reporting Leagues One and Two will be finished this week, with a weighted home/away points per game applied to the remaining fixtures to decide final standings. God knows what the calculation might be but as our home form is better and we have more home games left...
Seen someone say for us:
6 home games left (71% of points) = 12.78 (rounded to 13 points), 4 away games (29% of points) =3.48 (rounded down to 3 points). Total = 16 points from remaining 10 games.
Currently 25 points + 16 points = 41
That right?
Looks good Vinnie, even if you round it down, it's still 40 points.
Post by: curiousorange on May 08, 2020, 11:41:20 AM
The Athletic reporting Leagues One and Two will be finished this week, with a weighted home/away points per game applied to the remaining fixtures to decide final standings. God knows what the calculation might be but as our home form is better and we have more home games left...
Seen someone say for us:
6 home games left (71% of points) = 12.78 (rounded to 13 points), 4 away games (29% of points) =3.48 (rounded down to 3 points). Total = 16 points from remaining 10 games.
Currently 25 points + 16 points = 41
That right?
I can't say I know what method they're using, but if it takes us above 40 points, that one works for me.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 08, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
What has been lacking right from the outset of this national catastrophe has been any sense of dignity, from government right through to sport. It is as though we are not a nation any longer just a travelling circus to be kept on the road.Sadly true.
Post by: olaftab on May 08, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
What has been lacking right from the outset of this national catastrophe has been any sense of dignity, from government right through to sport. It is as though we are not a nation any longer just a travelling circus to be kept on the road.Government twats one after another are piping up with “resumption of football will lift the national morale”. Totally shallow and vacuous idiots. What will lift the morale is good leadership and COVID deaths down to zero or near zero. Yes get a grip.
Post by: paul_e on May 08, 2020, 11:47:09 AM
From Reuters via SKY...
"Premier League clubs opposed to the idea of playing their remaining matches at neutral venues once the competition restarts must realise people’s lives are at stake and football concerns should take a back seat, British police have said.
Mark Roberts, the national lead for football policing, told Sky he was concerned about some of the comments he had heard regarding the conditions for restarting the league, which was suspended in mid-March due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Brighton & Hove Albion chief executive Paul Barber said his team were opposed to surrendering home advantage and Christian Purslow, his counterpart at Aston Villa, said relegation would be a 200 million pounds catastrophe.
“The things that are starting to concern me a little as we get closer to a potential restart are comments we’re hearing on the margins by people involved in football,” Deputy Chief Constable Roberts said.
“... Comments such as ‘we might get relegated’, ‘we don’t want to play at neutral venues,’ ‘when we played them away there were fans in the stadium’, ‘we play at home without fans that’s a disadvantage’, ‘we want to get the trophy’.
“I get this in a football context that these are all a big deal. But in the context where 30,000 people have died (in the UK) and the total is still going up, then it’s not such a big deal.
“We want to work with football... get the season back going for the commercial reasons, for the morale reasons ... but we have to remind ourselves that cannot be at the risk of putting a single further life in jeopardy,” Roberts said."
Interesting editing by sky, make the article about how selfish Villa and Brighton are but completely gloss over the clear implication from the quote that Liverpool are just as big a problem.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 08, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
I can see trying to force it through having the opposite effect on the national morale level overall. It won't cheer that many people up, and you can tell that from looking at this forum. We're football fans, it's why we're all here, but plenty of our number are verging on angry about a contrived restart, many more ambivalent at best.
Then there's people who don't even actively dislike football, those just nonplussed about the whole thing normally. They'll be wondering why on earth us trogs get our game back, yet virtually every aspect of their lives remain prohibitively affected.
I think it's a massive stretch. It's not like we're all cheering on the national sides, they're expecting things like Crystal Palace vs Burnley to somehow lift the nation's spirits.
Like reality TV and Downton Abbey, football is one of those pastimes that are supposed to grab the nation's attention when the majority of the population don't give a bugger about it one way or the other.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 08, 2020, 11:53:29 AM
http://thebirminghampress.com/2020/05/new-grants-available-for-grassroots-football/
Post by: olaftab on May 08, 2020, 11:57:16 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 08, 2020, 12:11:39 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 08, 2020, 12:23:51 PM
If the police are saying some grounds could be used but not others, let those teams that can use their home ground use theirs for home games and everybody that can't can select where they want to play for their home games and have to 'suck it up'. Let's see the complaints about fairness, then.
The argument about people travelling 10 miles to their home ground but will not travel 75 miles to another is rubbish. People will travel, regardless of distance. Do they still think football is local and people walk to home matches. What is to stop Liverpool fans when they win the league, lining the route back from wherever to Liverpool. Bear in mind that there will be relaxing of the current lockdown with more people going back to work by the time they are thinking the matches can be played. There will be far more traffic on the roads. Are the police going to commit resources to blockading areas around grounds.
The idea for a restart started weeks ago when people thought the spreading of the virus and deaths would be tailing off. That is not happening to the extent required and does not look like happening quickly enough. Last week it was reported that a vote would be taken after the Government was to decide a way forward today. Then when the Government announced there would be a statement by the PM on Sunday, it was reported that the vote would be on Monday. Now they are saying that they will not vote until after the captains have met to discuss it. They keep on moving the goalposts on when the vote will happen. What will it be next, the captains want further time to review and get advice on the doctors' report and discuss this with the players. Time is running out but no firm proposals are being discussed ready for when a window of opportunity exists to train fully and play the matches. They do not appear to want to put a firm date on a decision in case the situation is still not stable enough at that date and they do have to call it all off. The only date I have seen is the UEFA date of completing by end of July.
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 12:28:06 PM
Sounds like the government are pouring some cold water on expectations of the lockdown being changed much on Sunday. Problem the PL might have is there’s not much road left to kick the can down now.
Well, cold water for everyone else but every time they are asked specifically about football they cant wait to tell us they are working to get it restarted. There is no caution expressed.
They wont be stopping it (at least initially).
Post by: Rory on May 08, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
Post by: Legion on May 08, 2020, 12:55:32 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 08, 2020, 01:12:11 PM
Sounds like the government are pouring some cold water on expectations of the lockdown being changed much on Sunday. Problem the PL might have is there’s not much road left to kick the can down now.
Well, cold water for everyone else but every time they are asked specifically about football they cant wait to tell us they are working to get it restarted. There is no caution expressed.
They wont be stopping it (at least initially).
It's the same as the PL they want to be seen to be trying to play as the ramifications could be huge if no games go on.Germany .Italy and Spain trying to play on for one reason ,Monday.If the French Gov hadn't agreed to loan the French league money to cover loss of revenue that season would likely be trying to get going.
Post by: Rory on May 08, 2020, 01:16:14 PM
Behind closed doors, I think.
Well it's certainly helped my morale. I feel great now...
Post by: Mister E on May 08, 2020, 01:28:21 PM
From Reuters via SKY...
"Premier League clubs opposed to the idea of playing their remaining matches at neutral venues once the competition restarts must realise people’s lives are at stake and football concerns should take a back seat, British police have said.
Mark Roberts, the national lead for football policing, told Sky he was concerned about some of the comments he had heard regarding the conditions for restarting the league, which was suspended in mid-March due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Brighton & Hove Albion chief executive Paul Barber said his team were opposed to surrendering home advantage and Christian Purslow, his counterpart at Aston Villa, said relegation would be a 200 million pounds catastrophe.
“The things that are starting to concern me a little as we get closer to a potential restart are comments we’re hearing on the margins by people involved in football,” Deputy Chief Constable Roberts said.
“... Comments such as ‘we might get relegated’, ‘we don’t want to play at neutral venues,’ ‘when we played them away there were fans in the stadium’, ‘we play at home without fans that’s a disadvantage’, ‘we want to get the trophy’.
“I get this in a football context that these are all a big deal. But in the context where 30,000 people have died (in the UK) and the total is still going up, then it’s not such a big deal.
“We want to work with football... get the season back going for the commercial reasons, for the morale reasons ... but we have to remind ourselves that cannot be at the risk of putting a single further life in jeopardy,” Roberts said."
Compare and contrast with:
Quote from: Grauniad website, 08-05-20
Police advice that Premier League clubs must play at neutral venues if they resume the season has “no rationale” and risks demonising supporters by assuming they will gather unsafely outside grounds, a former football policing commander has said.Sorry for the extended post - if you wish to comment on it, can I suggest you edit it before posting to avoid a mega-thread.
Owen West, a recently retired West Yorkshire chief superintendent, told the Guardian that football clubs can help give a lead as local community organisations to any gradual easing of Covid-19 lockdown restrictions and do not need to be switched from their home grounds to play games.
“The problem we are all facing is the spread of the coronavirus, yet the potential return of football matches is being discussed as a public order issue, as if supporters are going to gather en masse outside grounds,” said West, a senior consultant with Enable, a group of experts who promote a progressive approach to football policing.
“That tone demonises fans who have been very mature during this crisis, complying with the lockdown and also contributing admirably, to food banks and community aid.”
Enable, whose leadership includes Clifford Stott, a professor of social psychology who sits on the SPI-B sub-committee of the government’s scientific advisory group on emergencies (Sage), has been funded by the EFL for two years to research collaborative policing.
“I do not see the rationale for regional hubs,” West said. “I believe football clubs, in their localities, can play a leadership role in the crisis, hosting matches when they are allowed, and giving guidance to their supporters about the social distancing and other measures required to keep safe.”
The Premier League’s Project Restart plan proposes playing the remaining matches at eight to 10 neutral grounds. That is understood to result partly from police advice to the government that supporters would gather in large numbers outside home grounds and breach physical distancing requirements.
DCC Mark Roberts, head of the UK Football Policing Unit, had said that the Premier League and EFL would be putting an “impracticable” strain on police and other emergency services if they played matches at home.
“Football must appreciate that as the country begins what will inevitably be a long route to normality there will be a significant and unpredictable demand on the police, ambulance and local authorities, all of which are currently stretched, in part through the abstraction of our staff,” Roberts said. “In my own force, our planning team, including football officers, have been redeployed into a logistical team managing elements of our Covid-19 response."
“The requirement of football is that it should look at flexible options that minimise its call on public services and not add to them through unrealistic demands.
“Playing out 450-plus games at 92 stadiums is, in my view, an impracticable burden to put on the police, ambulance and local authorities. In addition to football’s own issues around stadiums, it is unrealistic not to envisage large gatherings of supporters celebrating various on-field achievements.”
West criticised Roberts’s tone as too “punitive”, based on supporters being a public order problem. “The language is of stark warnings being given about fans gathering, which is really disappointing. If the prime minister relaxes freedom to exercise and engage in leisure, it may be that people might attend near their home ground. As long as they do so in a safe way, I don’t see a problem.”
Roberts clarified that he had not received firm proposals from the Premier League, whose clubs are awaiting the government’s update on the lockdown, expected to be eased slightly on Sunday night, before clarifying their plans further at a meeting on Monday. Several clubs, including Brighton and Aston Villa, have publicly stated opposition to neutral venues, arguing that playing at home better preserves sporting integrity and can be as safe as neutral venues. The EFL has said it does want to play matches at home grounds.
Roberts, speaking to ITV, said football people talking about sporting integrity needed to wise up and consider the casualties of Covid-19: “In the broader context, where the country has seen 30,000-and rising deaths, some of the people making these comments need to get a grip because we’ve all got a responsibility – yes to make progress for the benefit of the country, but equally to do it in a way that minimises the risk that anything we do adds to that death toll.”
Post by: nevillain on May 08, 2020, 01:54:22 PM
We would still go down (scroll down it’s there somewhere)
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 02:01:38 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 08, 2020, 02:28:16 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/FgjRQjM/6-E21-E08-D-4970-461-A-B959-C1-A23-B18-D616.png) (https://ibb.co/FgjRQjM)
This is how the PPG home/away thing works.
The whole idea of it is so so flawed. For instance, say you have played the bottom 8 teams at home but not top 6 yet - you’d get the same PPG given to you for the outstanding. How can they use that as a ‘fair’ measure?
We need to play the games and earn the right to stay up. It’s prob our only chance as all these systems will shaft us.
Null and void won’t happen
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 02:34:09 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/FgjRQjM/6-E21-E08-D-4970-461-A-B959-C1-A23-B18-D616.png) (https://ibb.co/FgjRQjM)
This is how the PPG home/away thing works.
The whole idea of it is so so flawed. For instance, say you have played the bottom 8 teams at home but not top 6 yet - you’d get the same PPG given to you for the outstanding. How can they use that as a ‘fair’ measure?
We need to play the games and earn the right to stay up. It’s prob our only chance as all these systems will shaft us.
Null and void won’t happen
But if you cant play the games before the end of July I am not sure you would have any other options but to void it - the competition can't be completed?
Post by: old man villa fan on May 08, 2020, 02:52:53 PM
From Reuters via SKY...
"Premier League clubs opposed to the idea of playing their remaining matches at neutral venues once the competition restarts must realise people’s lives are at stake and football concerns should take a back seat, British police have said.
Compare and contrast with:Quote from: Grauniad website, 08-05-20Police advice that Premier League clubs must play at neutral venues if they resume the season has “no rationale” and risks demonising supporters by assuming they will gather unsafely outside grounds, a former football policing commander has said.Sorry for the extended post - if you wish to comment on it, can I suggest you edit it before posting to avoid a mega-thread.
Thanks for posting the two articles. It shows that the media are an influencer in this. They are selective depending on what point they want to make. We are never presented with all of the facts. Whether it is just laziness in repeating parts of stories from other media sources or whether it is to create propaganda to support an unbiased view.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 08, 2020, 03:03:53 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/FgjRQjM/6-E21-E08-D-4970-461-A-B959-C1-A23-B18-D616.png) (https://ibb.co/FgjRQjM)
This is how the PPG home/away thing works.
The whole idea of it is so so flawed. For instance, say you have played the bottom 8 teams at home but not top 6 yet - you’d get the same PPG given to you for the outstanding. How can they use that as a ‘fair’ measure?
We need to play the games and earn the right to stay up. It’s prob our only chance as all these systems will shaft us.
Null and void won’t happen
The argument for using points per game to decide relegation from the EPL (may not be the same for other promotion/relegation/European qualification) based on matches that have been completed does not work based on what has gone before over the last 10 years (I have posted on this previously). Coming up with a weighting factor is manipulation and open to bias or even corruption. There is not a formula for deciding football matches, otherwise the bookies would not last long. If something is inconsistently variable, you can not use it as a sound base and you create a scenario for legal objection. You can map all of the probabilities and come up with a model but I bet you couldn't come up with one to give Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
Post by: Gareth on May 08, 2020, 03:13:40 PM
Think neutral venues is a truly ridiculous idea, if we are not in a position to police games to disperse any idiots that turn up to stadiums where games are behind closed doors then we are not ready to restart.
Likewise medical staffing has to be at the same level as it was beforehand...god forbid we get another Muamba situation and we have a bunch of St Johns taking 6/7 minutes to get on the pitch, that is unthinkable.
If you play out fixtures you have to have as much the same as it was before COVID-19, all teams have to play each other home & away is a fundamental concept of a league, if you play at a neutral venue then pitch dimensions will be different, the watering of pitch/mowing of the grass is not under control of the ‘home’ team not to mention that your opposition had the benefit of a home fan following for the corresponding game.
Wonder if PL will up the parachute payments to those clubs they eventually relegate? Because let’s face it that is the core issue to the executives however they might bluster about health & safety...
What will be interesting when they do restart will be the motivations of the players, every club will have its different behind the scenes issues, fall outs, resentments about how the club have dealt with COVID-19 etc. That may well translate into performances so you might see some very odd looking results.
Post by: curiousorange on May 08, 2020, 03:57:05 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 08, 2020, 04:49:00 PM
Why should footballers trust the Premier League or the Government when they say safety is a priority?
Jeremy Wilson - Chief Sports Reporter
From almost every corner of English football lurks the distinct smell of a potential vested interest.
The Premier League? Well, we know full well that there are 762 million reasons why most clubs might want to press on with quickly completing the season and a few hundred million reasons why others may beg to differ.
The Professional Footballers’ Association? Well, don’t forget that the trade union which exists to protect the welfare of players actually depends on the Premier League donating it around £25 million each season, with more than £2 million of its income then paid annually to chief executive Gordon Taylor in salary, benefits and bonus.
The club doctors? Well, it did not take long this week to discover just how alarmingly compromised they might be. An apparently routine request for feedback and questions regarding ‘Project Restart’ only elicited four replies. To which one observation, surely, is why were there 16 other club doctors who did not have anything they wanted to say or ask about an idea that, even on the most generous assessment, is littered with possible pitfalls?
That the motives of those who did raise concerns is now apparently being questioned elsewhere in the top-flight underlines how, even inside the game, everyone knows that club doctors can be placed under extreme subconscious or even direct pressure.
And what of the Government? Well, they are clearly keen for some signs of normality. Football would, according to First Secretary Dominic Raab, “lift the spirits of the nation”. That might be true - we do all want hope just now - but we need realism and sound decision-making a whole lot more.
And there will be plenty of players who are acutely aware that it is less than 10 weeks since the Government allowed the Cheltenham Festival to go ahead, permitted Atletico Madrid to play Liverpool at Anfield at a time when the Spanish capital was already in lockdown and had given the green light to a full weekend of football fixtures, only to see that unravel when Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta tested positive for the coronavirus.
These events are obviously very different in terms of the safeguards that have now been proposed, but will still prompt questions about the wisdom of simply accepting official advice, especially when many of the players will have an acute wider global perspective from friends and relatives in countries where governments may take a very different decision.
The players will also have noticed that, while Germany’s Bundesliga is planning for its own restart only four weeks earlier than our own, there is one rather glaring difference. They had 1,115 new cases of coronavirus yesterday and, even with our relatively restricted testing capacity, we had 6,111. There were also another 649 deaths in the UK - double the number Germany has ever recorded in a single day.
Trust must be earned and, if you were a player, how much faith would you realistically have when the Premier League releases statements saying that the “priority” for ‘Project Restart’ “is the health and safety of players, coaches, managers, club staff, supporters and the wider community”?
Having spent much of the past five years working on another medical story - the prevalence of dementia among former players - it is also hard not to be reminded of some of the lessons here. Yes, it is a completely different issue, but the response of the Premier League, the Football League and the Government towards an aspect of player welfare that might challenge the simple urge to ‘keep the show on the road’ feels somehow relevant.
It was in October that the University of Glasgow published research showing that former professional players were five times more likely to die of Alzheimer’s, four times more likely to die of motor neurone disease and 3.5 times more likely to die of dementia that the rest of the population. So how did the Premier League and Football League publicly react?
Short ‘holding’ statements that did little more than acknowledge the existence of what was landmark research. And the Government, on what you might think is an issue of public health? Nothing. AFC Bournemouth did introduce their own unilateral decision to stop heading in the youngest age groups but, when Telegraph Sport asked every club in the Premier League and Championship what changes they might now make, many did not even reply. No other club made changes.
It was left to the Football Association to lead and, in February, they did bring in new guidance which advises that primary age children should not head the ball. But what about professional adults? Anything here? Maybe a limit on heading in training? Maybe a concerted push to change the concussion protocols? Maybe the sort of temporary concussion substitutes that are common in other contact sports? Nope. Just some trials that might take place next season and possibly lead to some sort of change in 2021.
Again, trust is earned and, if you were a player, how much faith against that backdrop would you realistically have when you are told that your “health and safety” is the priority?
None of this is to say that there are not some brilliant and caring people working in football, just that they are not there to make judgments about global pandemics but generally to get players out on the pitch.
And so of course the doctors should be heavily involved in all the discussions and proposals for what happens next, as should the clubs, the Government, the players and the managers. And of course football has a duty to plan for its restart and try to protect all the jobs which are at risk.
But final decisions about the Premier League’s ‘Project Restart’ should actually rest far away - and with genuinely independent and properly informed medics and epidemiologists.
Post by: andyh on May 08, 2020, 05:07:18 PM
And football is going to restart, no doubt.
Its fucking disgusting
Post by: Pete3206 on May 08, 2020, 05:21:29 PM
Post by: CT on May 08, 2020, 05:31:20 PM
600+ more dead today, now over 31,000.
Absolutely done with the PL, they're an absolute fucking disgrace.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 08, 2020, 05:43:35 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 08, 2020, 05:54:00 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 08, 2020, 06:06:02 PM
Post by: phantom limb on May 08, 2020, 06:10:08 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 08, 2020, 06:23:49 PM
"I suggest that you take a look at the 2006 Companies Act. Within the 600 odd pages there is a large section devoted to the legal duties and responsibilities of directors. Their primary duty is to run the club (company) in a manner that is in the best interests of the owners (shareholders).
I would argue that the best interests of the clubs at the bottom is to remain in the Premier League.
Therefore the directors, who you accuse of displaying “self interest”, are only carrying out their legal duties. To do otherwise would leave them open to all sorts of legal action".
Football is not an amateur game and has not been for a long time but from the comments in the media and on social media, you would think it was. This is business and is every club for themselves.
Post by: Richard E on May 08, 2020, 06:25:22 PM
The way Keinan is playing maybe we should push for playing the rest of the season out on FIFA.
As long as he doesn’t injure his hands.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 08, 2020, 06:28:44 PM
I don't think anyone would disagree that matches shouldn't be played while there is any sort of health concern but I think the alternative to no matches being played will actually be worse for us from a footballing perspective and will end up with us going down.
Post by: aev on May 08, 2020, 06:38:26 PM
If the season doesn't get finished they will use current positions or PPG, I don't think null and void is an option. I was on Reddit earlier and there was a link to a Times article saying the FA would block any attempt by the PL to get rid of relegation. Apparently they can do this because of some agreement made when the PL started. Every single fan commenting on it was basically supportive of it apart from a couple of Villa fans and a Bournemouth fan. Lots of comments along the lines of "well you shouldn't have been so shit for so much of the season". It did make me think we're in a bit of an echo chamber here because it certainly didn't look like there was much support for null and void. The inherent unfairness of finishing an incomplete season with positions as they are is balanced against the inherent unfairness of disregarding over 2/3rds of one that's been played. On the basis of this admittedly unscientific sample it would appear more people consider voiding the season as the least palatable option.
I don't think anyone would disagree that matches shouldn't be played while there is any sort of health concern but I think the alternative to no matches being played will actually be worse for us from a footballing perspective and will end up with us going down.
Games shouldn’t be played with the deaths as they are.
As for the Times article, I am sure legally there are all sorts of positions to be taken regarding promotion / relegation?
Post by: usav on May 08, 2020, 06:47:14 PM
If the season doesn't get finished they will use current positions or PPG, I don't think null and void is an option. I was on Reddit earlier and there was a link to a Times article saying the FA would block any attempt by the PL to get rid of relegation. Apparently they can do this because of some agreement made when the PL started. Every single fan commenting on it was basically supportive of it apart from a couple of Villa fans and a Bournemouth fan. Lots of comments along the lines of "well you shouldn't have been so shit for so much of the season". It did make me think we're in a bit of an echo chamber here because it certainly didn't look like there was much support for null and void. The inherent unfairness of finishing an incomplete season with positions as they are is balanced against the inherent unfairness of disregarding over 2/3rds of one that's been played. On the basis of this admittedly unscientific sample it would appear more people consider voiding the season as the least palatable option.
Let's assume the season is not completed. If there is no provision for the current situation in the league rules, then you would usually go with precedent. Is there any precedent for as season not being completed? None that I can think of. One precedent that I can think of though (on many occasions) is a club looking like it's in deep shit and pulling off a miraculous recovery in the last few games of the season. With over a quarter of our season left to play, it would be hard to ague that we don't at least have a chance. On the other side, it would be hard to argue that we haven't been shit for the first almost 3/4s of the season and look like we would have gone down had the season been played out. If this did go to the courts, it would basically come down to the opinion of a judge.
I think this is why they are trying everything they can to get the season completed - nobody wants to deal with the mess above.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 08, 2020, 06:49:56 PM
Post by: phantom limb on May 08, 2020, 06:57:43 PM
Every single fan commenting on it was basically supportive of it apart from a couple of Villa fans and a Bournemouth fan. Lots of comments along the lines of "well you shouldn't have been so shit for so much of the season". It did make me think we're in a bit of an echo chamber here because it certainly didn't look like there was much support for null and void.
I go on reddit too and it’s just as much of an echo chamber as anywhere. For a start the “soccer” sub is full of Leeds fans who are absolutely frothing that their chance of going up is slipping away from them. Naturally they don’t like us very much either, so i don’t think it’s necessarily a great barometer for general feeling.
Post by: Billy Walker on May 08, 2020, 07:03:22 PM
"Points Per Match vs expunging results
I understand that this decision has inevitably caused some clubs, players and supporters to feel a sense of injustice and those feelings are entirely understandable. This is not an easy time for anyone in football and we understand that there is no decision that will suit everyone.
We sympathise with those clubs that are currently occupying promotion spots – or those hopeful of securing promotion. Some believe that it would be better to opt for a Points Per Match [PPM] model to conclude the remainder of the season, as oppose to expunging results.
Both options, and the potential implications of each, were considered at length by all involved.
The truth is that the consequence of clubs being promoted is that others will need to be relegated. The application of a PPM model would result in certain clubs that currently sit above the relegation zone falling into those places.
Equally, there would be certain clubs that currently sit in a play-off position that would not qualify as a result of the PPM Model. The PPM model also doesn’t address the issue of how to deal with play-off matches and how to identify a winner who would consequently benefit from promotion.
In addition, most of the clubs facing relegation will be of the view that they stood a chance of avoiding it due to the number of games remaining in the season and they may consider it to be unfair for them to be denied the opportunity to secure safety through sporting merit.
It is impossible to find a solution that works for everybody, so the decision was based on two main factors. Firstly, the potential financial impact on clubs during this uncertain period, and secondly, the fairest method on how to decide the sporting outcomes for the season, with the integrity of the leagues in mind.
Some have referenced the fact the PPM model has been used to determine promotion and relegation in the past, which is correct, but only in cases where clubs are compared across different leagues, with the season having been completed and all clubs having played their fixtures."
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 08, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Post by: dicedlam on May 08, 2020, 07:18:22 PM
All in the name of money...
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 08, 2020, 07:31:35 PM
Can just see it now. West Ham need a point to stay up, Villa need three. One or the other is down.
Villa one up with seconds left, West Ham sub 4 Snodgrass crosses it for sub 5 Andy Carroll to score a header.
Post by: Billy Walker on May 08, 2020, 08:02:36 PM
Fair play Billy, that's an interesting read. Would seem to be hypocritical if they change their mind for the Prem!
That's what I'm thinking/hoping.
Post by: Towser on May 08, 2020, 08:09:57 PM
And now FIFA is allowing five subs to be used if leagues want to.will they be able to loan Carroll from Newcastle at this stage of the season?
Can just see it now. West Ham need a point to stay up, Villa need three. One or the other is down.
Villa one up with seconds left, West Ham sub 4 Snodgrass crosses it for sub 5 Andy Carroll to score a header.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 08, 2020, 08:29:16 PM
Hasn't a precedent been set by the FA in the way it handled the leagues lower down in the football pyramid? Their rationale for nulling and voiding can be found in Laurence Jones' explanation on the FA's website. Here is what he said about finalising leagues using PPM (Points Per Match) which I assume is what is also known as Points Per Game:
"Points Per Match vs expunging results
I understand that this decision has inevitably caused some clubs, players and supporters to feel a sense of injustice and those feelings are entirely understandable. This is not an easy time for anyone in football and we understand that there is no decision that will suit everyone.
We sympathise with those clubs that are currently occupying promotion spots – or those hopeful of securing promotion. Some believe that it would be better to opt for a Points Per Match [PPM] model to conclude the remainder of the season, as oppose to expunging results.
Both options, and the potential implications of each, were considered at length by all involved.
The truth is that the consequence of clubs being promoted is that others will need to be relegated. The application of a PPM model would result in certain clubs that currently sit above the relegation zone falling into those places.
Equally, there would be certain clubs that currently sit in a play-off position that would not qualify as a result of the PPM Model. The PPM model also doesn’t address the issue of how to deal with play-off matches and how to identify a winner who would consequently benefit from promotion.
In addition, most of the clubs facing relegation will be of the view that they stood a chance of avoiding it due to the number of games remaining in the season and they may consider it to be unfair for them to be denied the opportunity to secure safety through sporting merit.
It is impossible to find a solution that works for everybody, so the decision was based on two main factors. Firstly, the potential financial impact on clubs during this uncertain period, and secondly, the fairest method on how to decide the sporting outcomes for the season, with the integrity of the leagues in mind.
Some have referenced the fact the PPM model has been used to determine promotion and relegation in the past, which is correct, but only in cases where clubs are compared across different leagues, with the season having been completed and all clubs having played their fixtures."
This is very interesting!! Given this is the FA’s public stance on the null and void v PPG - any lawyer would be rubbing their hands together at taking this on if a clubs relegated using PPG in England. This is solid precedent
Post by: Des Little on May 08, 2020, 08:33:24 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 08, 2020, 09:05:47 PM
Hasn't a precedent been set by the FA in the way it handled the leagues lower down in the football pyramid? Their rationale for nulling and voiding can be found in Laurence Jones' explanation on the FA's website. Here is what he said about finalising leagues using PPM (Points Per Match) which I assume is what is also known as Points Per Game:
"Points Per Match vs expunging results
I understand that this decision has inevitably caused some clubs, players and supporters to feel a sense of injustice and those feelings are entirely understandable. This is not an easy time for anyone in football and we understand that there is no decision that will suit everyone.
We sympathise with those clubs that are currently occupying promotion spots – or those hopeful of securing promotion. Some believe that it would be better to opt for a Points Per Match [PPM] model to conclude the remainder of the season, as oppose to expunging results.
Both options, and the potential implications of each, were considered at length by all involved.
The truth is that the consequence of clubs being promoted is that others will need to be relegated. The application of a PPM model would result in certain clubs that currently sit above the relegation zone falling into those places.
Equally, there would be certain clubs that currently sit in a play-off position that would not qualify as a result of the PPM Model. The PPM model also doesn’t address the issue of how to deal with play-off matches and how to identify a winner who would consequently benefit from promotion.
In addition, most of the clubs facing relegation will be of the view that they stood a chance of avoiding it due to the number of games remaining in the season and they may consider it to be unfair for them to be denied the opportunity to secure safety through sporting merit.
It is impossible to find a solution that works for everybody, so the decision was based on two main factors. Firstly, the potential financial impact on clubs during this uncertain period, and secondly, the fairest method on how to decide the sporting outcomes for the season, with the integrity of the leagues in mind.
Some have referenced the fact the PPM model has been used to determine promotion and relegation in the past, which is correct, but only in cases where clubs are compared across different leagues, with the season having been completed and all clubs having played their fixtures."
This is very interesting!! Given this is the FA’s public stance on the null and void v PPG - any lawyer would be rubbing their hands together at taking this on if a clubs relegated using PPG in England. This is solid precedent
It also possibly reflects a situation where there is not so much money at stake and the sporting view is thought of higher. Take the money away and views change.
Post by: Steve67 on May 08, 2020, 09:57:55 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 08, 2020, 10:01:55 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 08, 2020, 10:05:20 PM
The concerns about player welfare soon disappeared out of the fucking window as soon as there was the possibility of losing a few quid, didn't they?
I hope the likes of Klopp and Guardiola will never have the barefaced cheek to complain about fixture congestion ever again if their clubs vote to resume playing.
Post by: David_Nab on May 08, 2020, 10:06:25 PM
Championship look like it may go the same way
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/championship-clubs-want-season-to-be-curtailed-gtf5nxjks
In which case if they jump first then the PL can say well you didn't play games so we are not relegating and promoting
Post by: olaftab on May 08, 2020, 10:39:48 PM
And now FIFA is allowing five subs to be used if leagues want to.I know Snoddy has a good cross on him but it will never reach that far north for Carroll to head it.
Can just see it now. West Ham need a point to stay up, Villa need three. One or the other is down.
Villa one up with seconds left, West Ham sub 4 Snodgrass crosses it for sub 5 Andy Carroll to score a header.
Post by: tony scott on May 08, 2020, 11:41:01 PM
Post by: eamonn on May 09, 2020, 01:39:12 AM
Another thing. Is the idea to start the next season at the normal time? If so, we would have players playing in June and probably early July then starting again in August. Then go straight into the Euros next June.
The concerns about player welfare soon disappeared out of the fucking window as soon as there was the possibility of losing a few quid, didn't they?
I hope the likes of Klopp and Guardiola will never have the barefaced cheek to complain about fixture congestion ever again if their clubs vote to resume playing.
Guardiola lost his mum to the virus recently, didn't he? He seems the type to be decisive and head-strong. Wouldn't be surprised if he resigned should it get to a stage where his players/staff welfare is being compromised by the PL's desire to carry on.
Post by: Hillbilly on May 09, 2020, 02:00:15 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 09, 2020, 02:06:46 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 09, 2020, 03:42:05 AM
Im honestly amazed they haven’t concluded you can’t have relegation already. It shouldn’t even be an argument quite frankly.
Post by: frank black on May 09, 2020, 08:40:52 AM
The odds are stacked against us. We are going to be relegated aren't we?
Yes looks that way. Went from void we are staying up to...play again or go down!
Post by: OzVilla on May 09, 2020, 09:03:08 AM
Many have been extremely sympathetic to the lack of integrity argument.
Post by: Ad@m on May 09, 2020, 09:11:04 AM
How can anybody not see that changing the conditions of the game, BCD, neutral venues, 5 subs, no VAR 3/4 of the way through the season is completely trashing the integrity of the competition?
Im honestly amazed they haven’t concluded you can’t have relegation already. It shouldn’t even be an argument quite frankly.
Money talks. Not much point for the broadcasters if the title's wrapped up and relegation is off the table.
The broadcasters don't give a toss who gets relegated as long as the same names are near the top of the table.
Post by: mr underhill on May 09, 2020, 09:15:05 AM
Post by: LeeB on May 09, 2020, 09:37:53 AM
there must be some way outta here, said the joker to the thief...
There’s too much confusion...
Post by: Steve67 on May 09, 2020, 09:45:03 AM
Post by: Steve67 on May 09, 2020, 09:48:50 AM
Now tin helmet time, if the mega teams of the premiership get their way we will be relegated. This might be an opportunity for us to get properly sorted, we already have 40 percentish squad members with recent championship Experience ,and because the likely hood of the match’s being played behind closed doors, just maybe we could reset regards squad, management, using the parachute payments, and make a quick return in much better shape than we find ourselves presently. This scenario assumes Jack is sold.
I think our squad will highly likely be minus Jack, Mings and McGinn and we will be left with a lot to do to get back up. We have no pace, a complete lack of physicality and for every half useful player, we have a crap one standing next to him. Sorry, but going down would be a disaster. It did us absolutely no good last time.
Post by: andyh on May 09, 2020, 10:16:35 AM
I read there is talk of suspending the use of VAR if the season is played out. Which would be the shit flavoured icing on the cake.Which in itself is another nail in the coffin of the ‘integrity’ bullshit.
All games have been played using VAR so far, it has even been the deciding factor in some games in that time.
But a restarted season won’t use something that was pivotal before?
As shit as VAR is, and even if it’s dropped for evermore, it is wrong to playout the rest of this season without it.
Mind you, it’s wrong to play out the rest of this season.....full stop.
Post by: Ad@m on May 09, 2020, 10:23:03 AM
Now tin helmet time, if the mega teams of the premiership get their way we will be relegated. This might be an opportunity for us to get properly sorted, we already have 40 percentish squad members with recent championship Experience ,and because the likely hood of the match’s being played behind closed doors, just maybe we could reset regards squad, management, using the parachute payments, and make a quick return in much better shape than we find ourselves presently. This scenario assumes Jack is sold.
I think our squad will highly likely be minus Jack, Mings and McGinn and we will be left with a lot to do to get back up. We have no pace, a complete lack of physicality and for every half useful player, we have a crap one standing next to him. Sorry, but going down would be a disaster. It did us absolutely no good last time.
It wasn't a disaster last time and it wouldn't be a disaster if we went down again. The squad is much better, we have more money, and a better manager.
I don't think McGinn or Mings would go - the virus will rip the arse out of the transfer market and we've got minted owners. Why would we sell them?
The three years in the 2nd division were a hell of a lot more enjoyable than the three years before it and resulted in a renewed optimism around the club, with sell outs every game and talk of major stadium expansion.
It's really not that bad.
Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2020, 10:26:24 AM
Post by: fredm on May 09, 2020, 10:34:47 AM
Guaranteed we get relegated by an injury time, two yards offside goal, then.
Scored by the 5th substitute from a cross from the 4th substitute.
Post by: andyh on May 09, 2020, 10:52:07 AM
One absolute plank on Facebook suggested using training grounds to play matches and when challenged about screening those games for TV, he said 'just put up some scaffolding like they do when they show small clubs in the FA Cup'. He is an Albion fan though, so that really says it all.When many prem training grounds are as well equipped as they are, it’s probably not a bad shout.
I’m sure they would be easier to ‘police’ .
If it’s all about just playing out the games, to ‘protect the integrity’ of the game (bullshit) then why not?
Post by: TaxDodger on May 09, 2020, 10:55:08 AM
I read there is talk of suspending the use of VAR if the season is played out. Which would be the shit flavoured icing on the cake.Which in itself is another nail in the coffin of the ‘integrity’ bullshit.
All games have been played using VAR so far, it has even been the deciding factor in some games in that time.
But a restarted season won’t use something that was pivotal before?
As shit as VAR is, and even if it’s dropped for evermore, it is wrong to playout the rest of this season without it.
Mind you, it’s wrong to play out the rest of this season.....full stop.
I would genuinely take going down if it meant VAR was scrapped forever.
Post by: The Edge on May 09, 2020, 11:12:06 AM
How can anybody not see that changing the conditions of the game, BCD, neutral venues, 5 subs, no VAR 3/4 of the way through the season is completely trashing the integrity of the competition?The only reason we're still having this debate is money. Liverpool want their title and the others want their place in europe so they can earn lots of money. It's as simple and as grubby as that.
Im honestly amazed they haven’t concluded you can’t have relegation already. It shouldn’t even be an argument quite frankly.
Post by: devilla on May 09, 2020, 11:17:57 AM
there must be some way outta here, said the joker to the thief...
There’s too much confusion...
I can't get no relief...
Post by: Richard E on May 09, 2020, 11:19:55 AM
I read there is talk of suspending the use of VAR if the season is played out. Which would be the shit flavoured icing on the cake.Which in itself is another nail in the coffin of the ‘integrity’ bullshit.
All games have been played using VAR so far, it has even been the deciding factor in some games in that time.
But a restarted season won’t use something that was pivotal before?
As shit as VAR is, and even if it’s dropped for evermore, it is wrong to playout the rest of this season without it.
Mind you, it’s wrong to play out the rest of this season.....full stop.
I would genuinely take Liverpool going down if it meant VAR was scrapped forever.
FTFY
Post by: devilla on May 09, 2020, 11:33:05 AM
Now tin helmet time, if the mega teams of the premiership get their way we will be relegated. This might be an opportunity for us to get properly sorted, we already have 40 percentish squad members with recent championship Experience ,and because the likely hood of the match’s being played behind closed doors, just maybe we could reset regards squad, management, using the parachute payments, and make a quick return in much better shape than we find ourselves presently. This scenario assumes Jack is sold.
I think our squad will highly likely be minus Jack, Mings and McGinn and we will be left with a lot to do to get back up. We have no pace, a complete lack of physicality and for every half useful player, we have a crap one standing next to him. Sorry, but going down would be a disaster. It did us absolutely no good last time.
It wasn't a disaster last time and it wouldn't be a disaster if we went down again. The squad is much better, we have more money, and a better manager.
I don't think McGinn or Mings would go - the virus will rip the arse out of the transfer market and we've got minted owners. Why would we sell them?
The three years in the 2nd division were a hell of a lot more enjoyable than the three years before it and resulted in a renewed optimism around the club, with sell outs every game and talk of major stadium expansion.
It's really not that bad.
I disagree. Jack would definitely go as would Mings as he's an England player now. I'm sure McGinn would want Premier League football and I don't think our owners being minted would be a factor in that.
The Championship is a difficult league to get out of. It took us a remarkable run at the end of last season to get out of it and after after 3 years hard work to get out of it, relegation would be a real kick in the teeth. If it happened in a normal season then fair enough we'd have to accept that we were shit enough for it to happen but if it happened this season as a result of some farcical decision to relegate teams by PPG, there's no integrity in that.
Post by: David_Nab on May 09, 2020, 11:51:31 AM
If we did go down we may bounce back easily as the championship will be a mess , FFP will be suspended as the league are going to reply on owners pumping cash in to stay afloat.Losing player's hard to say , if the player pushes for it maybe but I suspect fee's are going to be alot lower so is it worth say taking 20 mil for Jack when we can hold of for a season and use him to get us back up
Post by: p_ad on May 09, 2020, 12:11:05 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 09, 2020, 12:22:43 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 09, 2020, 12:44:25 PM
If the season doesn't get finished they will use current positions or PPG, I don't think null and void is an option. I was on Reddit earlier and there was a link to a Times article saying the FA would block any attempt by the PL to get rid of relegation. Apparently they can do this because of some agreement made when the PL started.Is that is same FA that has nulled and voided Leagues under their direct control without promotions and relegations?
Post by: OzVilla on May 09, 2020, 12:58:34 PM
More like newspapers printing anything as they’ve no actual football to report on.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 09, 2020, 12:59:32 PM
If the season doesn't get finished they will use current positions or PPG, I don't think null and void is an option. I was on Reddit earlier and there was a link to a Times article saying the FA would block any attempt by the PL to get rid of relegation. Apparently they can do this because of some agreement made when the PL started.Is that is same FA that has nulled and voided Leagues under their direct control without promotions and relegations?
They've allowed it to happen, not done it themselves.
Post by: brian green on May 09, 2020, 01:09:36 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2020, 01:20:27 PM
Agree, we just about got away with it last time, it would be a disaster.Now tin helmet time, if the mega teams of the premiership get their way we will be relegated. This might be an opportunity for us to get properly sorted, we already have 40 percentish squad members with recent championship Experience ,and because the likely hood of the match’s being played behind closed doors, just maybe we could reset regards squad, management, using the parachute payments, and make a quick return in much better shape than we find ourselves presently. This scenario assumes Jack is sold.
I think our squad will highly likely be minus Jack, Mings and McGinn and we will be left with a lot to do to get back up. We have no pace, a complete lack of physicality and for every half useful player, we have a crap one standing next to him. Sorry, but going down would be a disaster. It did us absolutely no good last time.
Post by: mr underhill on May 09, 2020, 01:21:09 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2020, 01:22:13 PM
All of this, if I read it correctly, assumes that all the clubs in whatever positions in whatever leagues they happened to be pre coronavirus, will survive. I can't see there being no fatalities, Small Heath being a typical example. They can arrange the Titanic deck chairs however they like but professional football as we knew it is holed below the waterline.Well put Brian.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 09, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
You would think that the EPL would be discussing if income was down this year, how they could make it up in the future. Or the PL could be saying to the broadcasters "You screw us now and after the current deal runs out, you will never get to broadcast the EPL in the future as there are plenty out there that will take your place. Further, you have made fortunes out of us in the past, time to give some back".
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2020, 03:15:38 PM
Something very smelly going on.
Post by: john2710 on May 09, 2020, 04:21:21 PM
Neither the Government nor the PL are going to block it restarting.
I don't see fans clamouring for football to restart, other than the obvious few. It's going to be a shit product served up just to fulfil financial obligations. But I guess those with their fingers in the pie don't care about that. The moneymen are clinging to a model that no longer exists. There's going to be dozens of clubs going to the wall over the next few months.
Football in empty, neutral stadiums with half-fit / half-arsed players is going to be a truly shit product & not one I'm prepared to pay for.
I wonder if there are any insurance implications of playing under the constraints the PL want to impose? Who is covering the risk? The clubs / players / the PL. It won't be the insurance companies....
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2020, 04:24:24 PM
We're just going to to have to play our way out of it.The existing insurance will not cover this and new insurance will be eye wateringly expensive , if it is even available. The insurance industry is in deep shit.
Neither the Government nor the PL are going to block it restarting.
I don't see fans clamouring for football to restart, other than the obvious few. It's going to be a shit product served up just to fulfil financial obligations. But I guess those with their fingers in the pie don't care about that. The moneymen are clinging to a model that no longer exists. There's going to be dozens of clubs going to the wall over the next few months.
Football in empty, neutral stadiums with half-fit / half-arsed players is going to be a truly shit product & not one I'm prepared to pay for.
I wonder if there are any insurance implications of playing under the constraints the PL want to impose? Who is covering the risk? The clubs / players / the PL. It won't be the insurance companies....
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 09, 2020, 04:33:09 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2020, 04:36:35 PM
If they're in the shit, why are they giving voluntary refunds on car insurance? I'm fairly sure that the insurance companies will, as ever, have pretty well covered their own arses.So why they asking for government assistance?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 09, 2020, 04:41:03 PM
If they're in the shit, why are they giving voluntary refunds on car insurance? I'm fairly sure that the insurance companies will, as ever, have pretty well covered their own arses.
I wouldn’t have thought so. They’ll return unfair gains.
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on May 09, 2020, 04:48:04 PM
We have a much better home record than the average of our home and away results and more remaining home fixtures, so we would have a different final total based on how the calculation is done.
Post by: nevillain on May 09, 2020, 04:57:11 PM
Has anyone on here done the calculation of what the 'final' league table would look like based on PPM/PPG and the balance of home and away fixtures remaining?
We have a much better home record than the average of our home and away results and more remaining home fixtures, so we would have a different final total based on how the calculation is done.
Go back a few pages 253 I think. If you dare
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on May 09, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Has anyone on here done the calculation of what the 'final' league table would look like based on PPM/PPG and the balance of home and away fixtures remaining?
We have a much better home record than the average of our home and away results and more remaining home fixtures, so we would have a different final total based on how the calculation is done.
Go back a few pages 253 I think. If you dare
Thanks. Still need snookers then.
I have not really considered what will happen as football has, rightly, been put in context given the devastating impact of Covid-19.
It does feel like the chatter about a return to playing has been ramped-up - though in my opinion that has more to do with a failing Government looking to distract the masses than it does to any sincere wish to "lift the nation's spirits" or being the next sure step in "following the science".
Take care. UTV.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 09, 2020, 05:19:19 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 09, 2020, 05:41:42 PM
Ultimately, whilst it would be a ridiculous way to get relegated, if we do end up going down it's difficult to see how we could blame anyone else.
Post by: phantom limb on May 09, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
What's really annoying about the PPG calculations is that had we actually turned up against Leicester in that final game and picked up a point, rather than roll over for them we'd be safe in a PPG basis, no matter how you cut it.
Ultimately, whilst it would be a ridiculous way to get relegated, if we do end up going down it's difficult to see how we could blame anyone else.
I’d like to blame VAR a bit.
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on May 09, 2020, 05:51:52 PM
With a game in hand, we're not at the snookers stage yet.
True. What I meant was that we weren't 'safe' if the PPG calculation was weighted based on home and away results and remaining fixtures.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 09, 2020, 06:01:41 PM
If they're in the shit, why are they giving voluntary refunds on car insurance? I'm fairly sure that the insurance companies will, as ever, have pretty well covered their own arses.So why they asking for government assistance?
Are they? I can't find that. I'm basing it on the car insurance refund, burglary being right down, and the bloke from the ABI stating in the middle of March that it's the wrong type of virus if anybody's expecting a business interruption payout, or words to that effect.
Post by: aj2k77 on May 09, 2020, 06:25:16 PM
What's really annoying about the PPG calculations is that had we actually turned up against Leicester in that final game and picked up a point, rather than roll over for them we'd be safe in a PPG basis, no matter how you cut it.
Ultimately, whilst it would be a ridiculous way to get relegated, if we do end up going down it's difficult to see how we could blame anyone else.
I’d like to blame VAR a bit.
And having 10 games left, 6 at home.
Post by: steamer on May 09, 2020, 06:32:43 PM
After the win away at Burnley I thought we were up for it. the performances after were mainly dire.
We have a game in hand, S.Utd at home ,hands on heart, who expected to win it ?
we can play the its not fair, home games etc but the reality is we had a crap season
If we stay up because of voiding the season or expanding the teams for the next season, fantastic.
but I am getting a bit bored with it all
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 09, 2020, 06:33:34 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 09, 2020, 06:46:57 PM
What's really annoying about the PPG calculations is that had we actually turned up against Leicester in that final game and picked up a point, rather than roll over for them we'd be safe in a PPG basis, no matter how you cut it.
Ultimately, whilst it would be a ridiculous way to get relegated, if we do end up going down it's difficult to see how we could blame anyone else.
I’d like to blame VAR a bit.
And having 10 games left, 6 at home.
Our six home games include Wolves, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal. I'd have some sympathy for the home Vs away game argument if we had an easy run in, but the reality is that we've played all the shit teams at home and we've still only got the 17th best home record in the division.
We can't kid ourselves - if we stay up because of this we'll have been extremely lucky. If we go down, as silly as all the suggestions being made about how that's decided are, we'll only have ourselves to blame for being in this position in the first place.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 09, 2020, 06:55:42 PM
It does feel like the chatter about a return to playing has been ramped-up - though in my opinion that has more to do with a failing Government looking to distract the masses than it does to any sincere wish to "lift the nation's spirits" or being the next sure step in "following the science".
Everything was running along relatively quietly until the media (probably doing the bidding on behalf of some clubs) started to sense the running out of time and started to ramp it up. I think the Government were quite happy to stay out of it until prodded by the media via the police. The 'holding' statement by the police of neutral venues was to try and bounce it back to football to make a decision. It has been bounced back at them and a fairly bland statement of "it would be good to get football back" has been spun to say this is what the Government wants. The last thing they want is to say that it would be ok for football to carry on. They want football to say that and so they should.
The media (again on behalf of some clubs) are saying that the only way football can carry on is behind closed doors because the Government have said so which is not exactly correct as it is the police that are saying it and the media are using this as a strong arm tactic against the bottom six clubs.
Two questions that stand out a mile to me and that are not being asked are:
1. EPL to broadcasters "Will you want the advance payments made paid back if the season is abandoned?"
2. EPL to police "As the matches will be played out in June and July and it looks as the lockdown will be relaxed a little by then, would you review your previous stipulation that matches are played at neutral venues and allow them to be played where they were intended?"
Answers to both of the above would go a long way to resolve the current impasse. It's as though nobody wants to resolve it, only steer it in a certain direction. In the meantime, the acrimony is growing dangerously for the health of football.
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2020, 07:02:27 PM
What's really annoying about the PPG calculations is that had we actually turned up against Leicester in that final game and picked up a point, rather than roll over for them we'd be safe in a PPG basis, no matter how you cut it.
Ultimately, whilst it would be a ridiculous way to get relegated, if we do end up going down it's difficult to see how we could blame anyone else.
I’d like to blame VAR a bit.
And having 10 games left, 6 at home.
Our six home games include Wolves, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal. I'd have some sympathy for the home Vs away game argument if we had an easy run in, but the reality is that we've played all the shit teams at home and we've still only got the 17th best home record in the division.
We can't kid ourselves - if we stay up because of this we'll have been extremely lucky. If we go down, as silly as all the suggestions being made about how that's decided are, we'll only have ourselves to blame for being in this position in the first place.
I was thinking that the other day. For all this “have to remember 6/10 games are at home” argument it’s not like we’ve been great against anyone at Villa Park. Quite frankly overall we’ve been fucking mince against most teams and the games we actually played really well in we royally fucked up. Toss in all of the games we had a man advantage and threw away. As shit as it would be if we went down like you say it wouldn’t be entirely unfair.
Post by: Gareth on May 09, 2020, 07:04:33 PM
Post by: Dave P on May 09, 2020, 07:18:51 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 09, 2020, 07:41:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 09, 2020, 07:48:41 PM
If we complete the season on the pitch, even at neutral venues, and still finish bottom 3, we deserve to go down. What I won’t accept is getting relegated by PPG. If the season cannot be completed, they have to void relegation. Simple as that.
See I just don’t see that on the playing side. It is materially unfair to play one less game in front of your home fans than everyone else around you. Don’t get me wrong we’ve played poorly, but we’re hardly cut adrift.
Post by: SamTheMouse on May 09, 2020, 08:33:01 PM
Anything else can fuck right off.
Post by: aj2k77 on May 09, 2020, 08:50:12 PM
It would hardly be the biggest shock in the world for us to win it. It must be played at Villa Park, with 3 subs, VAR and a crowd, like the rest of the season, if it can't be I'm afraid it's null and void and the standings don't stand up to scrutiny.
Post by: Legion on May 09, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Post by: Richard on May 09, 2020, 08:58:22 PM
We only deserve to go down once it's mathematically impossible for us to survive.
Anything else can fuck right off.
Well said !
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2020, 09:32:59 PM
Nothing can legislate for results like Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
No that was an anomaly. But then again we had plenty of chances to pull off excellent results against the top sides and blew every single of them.
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2020, 09:34:28 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 09, 2020, 09:36:51 PM
We only deserve to go down once it's mathematically impossible for us to survive.
Anything else can fuck right off.
Amen brother.
Post by: Ian. on May 09, 2020, 09:40:37 PM
Yep!We only deserve to go down once it's mathematically impossible for us to survive.
Anything else can fuck right off.
Amen brother.
Post by: LukeJames on May 09, 2020, 10:07:44 PM
I see that Dynamo Dresden have two new cases of Covid-19 and now will go into 14 day quarantine. They were due to get back to action next weekend. And that is exactly what would happen everywhere they try to restart playing at this time.
I'm trying to word this without coming across as an absolute ****** but this was always going to happen and a part of me was hoping that it would, its a fucking stupid decision too even contemplate starting up again while this is happening and unfortunately it was going to take something of this magnitude too bring it home.
Obviously I hope both players have the mildest possible versions and recover asap.
Post by: David_Nab on May 09, 2020, 10:14:51 PM
I see that Dynamo Dresden have two new cases of Covid-19 and now will go into 14 day quarantine. They were due to get back to action next weekend. And that is exactly what would happen everywhere they try to restart playing at this time.
I'm trying to word this without coming across as an absolute c*** but this was always going to happen and a part of me was hoping that it would, its a fucking stupid decision too even contemplate starting up again while this is happening and unfortunately it was going to take something of this magnitude too bring it home.
Obviously I hope both players have the mildest possible versions and recover asap.
Yup and what happens now as they were due to play next week ? Is that game put back ? Does 14 days quarantine mean no training ?
Post by: LukeJames on May 09, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 09, 2020, 10:28:32 PM
Also, Dresden are bottom of the League. 1 point from the relegation play off place, 4 points from staying up with 9 left too play. All too play for.
I'm not suggesting that they are manipulating the outcomes of the league, but I wonder if any of the EPL will ask their Doctors to declare an outbreak! Especially with the timescales being so tight for July 31st.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on May 09, 2020, 11:13:28 PM
Post by: frank black on May 09, 2020, 11:36:55 PM
I see that Dynamo Dresden have two new cases of Covid-19 and now will go into 14 day quarantine. They were due to get back to action next weekend. And that is exactly what would happen everywhere they try to restart playing at this time.
I'm trying to word this without coming across as an absolute c*** but this was always going to happen and a part of me was hoping that it would, its a fucking stupid decision too even contemplate starting up again while this is happening and unfortunately it was going to take something of this magnitude too bring it home.
Obviously I hope both players have the mildest possible versions and recover asap.
Yup and what happens now as they were due to play next week ? Is that game put back ? Does 14 days quarantine mean no training ?
Probably and two players short when they get back to playing if they’ve had it bad....imagine if Grealish and McGinn (sods law) were ruled out with it.
Hope they recover well
Post by: old man villa fan on May 09, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
Post by: andyh on May 10, 2020, 12:03:15 AM
Then week later, the same happens at Watford then at Villa a week later.
That’ll fuck em.
Post by: David_Nab on May 10, 2020, 12:03:20 AM
I wonder how many fans of the ten teams over the last ten years that were in the bottom three with nine matches to play thought "we have been crap up until now and thrown so many points away that we deserve it if we go down". The facts are that they probably deserved to be in the bottom three at the time but they still turned it around and survived. A few of those teams were more than two points behind with a game in hand, as well.
Apparently over the last 10 games historically, its the bottom clubs that have the most changes in position and points .How any times have their been great escapes over the years Fulham , WBA and Leicester spring to mind and I recall one Year Wigan went from being hopeless to unbeatable
Post by: Pete3206 on May 10, 2020, 12:23:56 AM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 12:46:45 AM
Post by: cdward on May 10, 2020, 01:05:51 AM
Then it can only resume when it is safe.
Post by: brian green on May 10, 2020, 06:34:56 AM
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 07:06:27 AM
Post by: brian green on May 10, 2020, 07:23:39 AM
Post by: The Edge on May 10, 2020, 08:43:11 AM
Agree entirely Newby. I could tear out my hair at the plight of the Beautiful Game. It has taken this catstrophe to turn the stone over. The grubs and worms writhing in a desperate attempt to find another stone to get under. It reminds me of the famous Alan Partridge sketch when he has been told his show has been axed. He has this brilliant new show he intends to create. What is it? they ask. Monkey Tennis.Excellent!!
Post by: LeeB on May 10, 2020, 09:18:29 AM
Agree entirely Newby. I could tear out my hair at the plight of the Beautiful Game. It has taken this catstrophe to turn the stone over. The grubs and worms writhing in a desperate attempt to find another stone to get under. It reminds me of the famous Alan Partridge sketch when he has been told his show has been axed. He has this brilliant new show he intends to create. What is it? they ask. Monkey Tennis.
That was one of the better suggestions, the Premier League ideas are more "Youth Hostelling with Chris Eubank".
Post by: frank black on May 10, 2020, 09:29:08 AM
2...End season now, PPG etc and we are down
3...Project restart to commence and then fail...,PPG or Void?
The third of these looks like where we are headed.
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 10, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
Post by: aev on May 10, 2020, 10:04:05 AM
1..Voiding off the table it seems..
2...End season now, PPG etc and we are down
3...Project restart to commence and then fail...,PPG or Void?
The third of these looks like where we are headed.
Why is it off the table?
I know there are stories suggesting this is the case, but I think these are being used as a threat. I can’t imagine for one moment any team relegated wouldn’t take legal action if they were relegated on PPG. Afterall, which PPG should be used?
It is the same with playing the league out under different parameters to how the rest of the league was played. Imagine being relegated as your squad was decimated by Corona quarantine measures.
Football playing on in these circumstances is morally grim, and from a sporting integrity perspective farcical.
Ending the season know is I think the cleanest solution. It would give the next season a chance to start with everyone aware of the potential changes in circumstances (crowds, squads, substitutions). If it meant larger leagues for a season or two, so be it.
Post by: frank black on May 10, 2020, 10:18:27 AM
1..Voiding off the table it seems..
2...End season now, PPG etc and we are down
3...Project restart to commence and then fail...,PPG or Void?
The third of these looks like where we are headed.
Why is it off the table?
I know there are stories suggesting this is the case, but I think these are being used as a threat. I can’t imagine for one moment any team relegated wouldn’t take legal action if they were relegated on PPG. Afterall, which PPG should be used?
It is the same with playing the league out under different parameters to how the rest of the league was played. Imagine being relegated as your squad was decimated by Corona quarantine measures.
Football playing on in these circumstances is morally grim, and from a sporting integrity perspective farcical.
Ending the season know is I think the cleanest solution. It would give the next season a chance to start with everyone aware of the potential changes in circumstances (crowds, squads, substitutions). If it meant larger leagues for a season or two, so be it.
Agreed but there appears to be 100% solidarity over getting the season done. Voiding will be on the table only during project restart IMO. If they end it now, I expect them to dish out the prizes and punishment. Then deal with the legal mess afterwards
Post by: andyh on May 10, 2020, 10:32:26 AM
Post by: wolfman999 on May 10, 2020, 10:39:09 AM
1..Voiding off the table it seems..
2...End season now, PPG etc and we are down
3...Project restart to commence and then fail...,PPG or Void?
The third of these looks like where we are headed.
Why is it off the table?
I know there are stories suggesting this is the case, but I think these are being used as a threat. I can’t imagine for one moment any team relegated wouldn’t take legal action if they were relegated on PPG. Afterall, which PPG should be used?
It is the same with playing the league out under different parameters to how the rest of the league was played. Imagine being relegated as your squad was decimated by Corona quarantine measures.
Football playing on in these circumstances is morally grim, and from a sporting integrity perspective farcical.
Ending the season know is I think the cleanest solution. It would give the next season a chance to start with everyone aware of the potential changes in circumstances (crowds, squads, substitutions). If it meant larger leagues for a season or two, so be it.
Agreed but there appears to be 100% solidarity over getting the season done. Voiding will be on the table only during project restart IMO. If they end it now, I expect them to dish out the prizes and punishment. Then deal with the legal mess afterwards
There is one reason and one reason only why they are determined to play out the season.
Money.
The Premier League would take an enormous hit with the TV companies home and abroad not willing to pay up for games that won't be played.
Add to the EPL making noises about the removal of parachute payments for relegated clubs adds up to a potential apocalypse for any clubs relegated. To add to that, they also face the prospect of their best players being snatched at bargain basement prices by parasites such as Man Ure etc.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 10:44:44 AM
Sky and BT need the league MORE than the league needs them now they have Amazon and Dazn waiting in the wings.
Logical thing is to get an understanding of any liabilities in full and look to re negotiate the existing contract terms for next ‘x’ years.
Surely to ‘pay back’ the broadcasters the clubs could just be on telly more next season but get no further cash from it to compensate for this season....!?
Post by: curiousorange on May 10, 2020, 11:03:36 AM
Or, y'know, void the whole thing, like a sensible organisation would do.
Post by: aev on May 10, 2020, 11:17:34 AM
Re:money and broadcasters. Allegedly the premier league haven’t even engaged sky/bt in this chat to even determine what the lay of the land would be!? Let alone looking to renegotiate terms.
Sky and BT need the league MORE than the league needs them now they have Amazon and Dazn waiting in the wings.
Logical thing is to get an understanding of any liabilities in full and look to re negotiate the existing contract terms for next ‘x’ years.
Surely to ‘pay back’ the broadcasters the clubs could just be on telly more next season but get no further cash from it to compensate for this season....!?
I think everything is (at the moment) spoken about in terms of playing and having relegations and promotion. Anything dissection from this is frowned upon. I guess the next stage would be the PL going to BT/SKY and saying we have tried everything but every solution has multiple issues.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 11:41:33 AM
For the unlucky three, which will include us, I think we need to drive a hard bargain, considering there's a quarter of our season left to play. So no FFP for us, and a financial inducement beyond parachute payments. If we've been ditched unfairly then we should get the best opportunity to redress the balance.
I have been thinking about the financial inducement and have seen it mentioned in one newspaper article but you can start to see the dark side of this where clubs are paid money to accept results.
Post by: Villan82 on May 10, 2020, 11:41:56 AM
I don't understand why a 22 team league for one season is such a bad idea? Why are we being punished so severely?
Yes, we were gash prior to the outbreak of the virus. But we only needed a few wins and we had 6 home games. What if we had a new manager lined up? Why are the authorities determined to go ahead with relegation?
Football won't recover from this mess unless it get's its act together and fast.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
I am thinking that the whole issue is now centring around the so called money that the Premier League would have to give back to the broadcasters. It is time that this is put to the test. Will they have to or not. There would probably still be the loss from foreign broadcasting of future matches still to be played but it is the SKY/BT deals that keep on being mentioned.
Post by: Villan82 on May 10, 2020, 11:58:28 AM
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 12:21:51 PM
Well, I can tell you now, I will not be watching this farce if there is relegation.
You will though mate and I reckon we all will. Much as i disagree with their rule changing and disgraceful antics, I will be watching because I don't want Villa to go down.
Post by: john e on May 10, 2020, 12:23:24 PM
if we don’t finish the season we will go down in my opinion
They have us over a barrel
for those pinning their hopes on a legal battle they won’t give a toss
we will be battling in court not knowing what league we will be playing in and everyone else will be preparing for it
it’s a nightmare scenario
Post by: aj2k77 on May 10, 2020, 01:02:27 PM
This desperate plan is unworkable, unless you are willing to accept infections and passing on the virus. It is impossible to carry on without doing so.
Post by: baddowvillans on May 10, 2020, 01:03:10 PM
At least if we are playing we have a chance to come out fighting and build some early momentum to ensure that once 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have won the league and everyone then agrees it should stop we are not relegated on PPG. If it doesn't get that far then we have to take it to the courts. The board have a responsibility to protect the shareholder interests and being relegated is certainly not that.
Post by: mr underhill on May 10, 2020, 01:03:28 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on May 10, 2020, 01:05:53 PM
our owners have deep pockets and presumably, if it comes to litigation, they will seek an injunction stopping a resumption until a hearing happens.
If it ever came to that there would be a financial settlement out of court, there's no way we'd disrupt the football calendar, the negative publicity would be suicide.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on May 10, 2020, 01:11:20 PM
We're Aston Villa: we've never done anything the easy way!
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 10, 2020, 01:14:25 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2020, 01:23:41 PM
Ie, if for reasons beyond our control we can not complete the season then relegation can not be forced upon us.
Post by: CT on May 10, 2020, 01:24:22 PM
A third Brighton player test positive for COVID-19. Restart my arse.
Mark Goldbridge of "United we stand" already saying it's "convenient" that this has happened to Brighton and pretty much saying they've done it deliberately. Also mentioned Jack being out (how many weeks ago) as another sign of a club not wanting a restart.
This will, I assume, be a typical reaction from one of the Sky favourites.
Post by: baddowvillans on May 10, 2020, 01:34:18 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 01:35:18 PM
our owners have deep pockets and presumably, if it comes to litigation, they will seek an injunction stopping a resumption until a hearing happens.
If it ever came to that there would be a financial settlement out of court, there's no way we'd disrupt the football calendar, the negative publicity would be suicide.
Can you see the EFL accepting that the relegated teams not only get the current parachute payments but financial compensation as well. They are making noises about the inequality as it is.
The only way I think court action will work is if you threaten it if they do not agree to the status quo (no, we are not down, down, yet) remaining the same and see if they blink. Clearly, legal advice would be taken in the background to ascertain the chances of success.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 01:39:47 PM
A third Brighton player test positive for COVID-19. Restart my arse.
Mark Goldbridge of "United we stand" already saying it's "convenient" that this has happened to Brighton and pretty much saying they've done it deliberately. Also mentioned Jack being out (how many weeks ago) as another sign of a club not wanting a restart.
This will, I assume, be a typical reaction from one of the Sky favourites.
I suppose he is also saying that other people have conveniently caught it to get out of work and have gone on to die. I doubt it. What an insensitive comment by him and shows how sickening this has all become. You cannot isolate football from life in general and put it in a bubble.
Post by: mr underhill on May 10, 2020, 01:52:51 PM
Post by: OzVilla on May 10, 2020, 01:56:41 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on May 10, 2020, 01:58:57 PM
A third Brighton player test positive for COVID-19. Restart my arse.
Mark Goldbridge of "United we stand" already saying it's "convenient" that this has happened to Brighton and pretty much saying they've done it deliberately. Also mentioned Jack being out (how many weeks ago) as another sign of a club not wanting a restart.
This will, I assume, be a typical reaction from one of the Sky favourites.
Plopper fans across Twitter and RAWK seem to be on the same page with this. Thoughts and prayers are with them.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 10, 2020, 02:18:23 PM
Post by: Damo70 on May 10, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 10, 2020, 02:44:27 PM
There is a lot of stone throwing in glass houses and everybody accusing everyone else of self interest without any self awareness regarding the irony of that stance.
Especially Sports Journalists who currently have fuck all to write about...Alan Nixon being one of the worst who incidentally was tweeting out weeks ago that bottom clubs would have positive results to sabotage the league
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 10, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Blimey, I hope Purslow’s got a bit more fight about him than some of you lot.
You’re right. The towel has gone in before the fight has Even started.
Rules are set out before the start. Without going deep into it what we have is 38 games for 19 teams each played home and away in their own stadiums. 19 of those games are in front of their own supporters. If for whatever reason that isn’t possible to achieve In that format that tournament is null and void. You can’t move the goalposts ( no pun intended) if it isn’t achievable unless all 19 teams agree to the outcome. That simply isn’t going to happen unless the spectre of relegation is removed. If there’s a financial penalty imposed by sponsors etc then that is shared equally by all 19 members. It might be that in this instance the premier league want to change the rules but unless all agree then it’s a non starter. If they go ahead regardless law suits will ensue. There will be at least 3 cases to contend with if this PPG is the outcome.
The Premier league have had it very good for 28 years. This is the first time they will have a bit of ‘hardship’. They need to just accept it like we and every other business/organisation will have to. They are not unique.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2020, 03:22:07 PM
Because I think it says that the clubs can form a committee and require a 2/3rds vote to change the rules.
Post by: aev on May 10, 2020, 03:28:19 PM
Brend are you taking this from the Premier League rule book?
Because I think it says that the clubs can form a committee and require a 2/3rds vote to change the rules.
Think this is the 14 votes we keep hearing about I guess. So bottom 6 alone wouldn’t be enough but to be honest you’d think there would be a legal case if the fundamental rules of the competition were changed (whether the vote passed or not)?
Post by: olaftab on May 10, 2020, 03:40:00 PM
Blimey, I hope Purslow’s got a bit more fight about him than some of you lot.Yes so do I. Supporter are behaving typically as we do at the match. Other team is always going to score, we are shit at everything, the Ref will be always against us and all luck will favour the opposition.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 03:53:39 PM
Brend are you taking this from the Premier League rule book?
Because I think it says that the clubs can form a committee and require a 2/3rds vote to change the rules.
Think this is the 14 votes we keep hearing about I guess. So bottom 6 alone wouldn’t be enough but to be honest you’d think there would be a legal case if the fundamental rules of the competition were changed (whether the vote passed or not)?
I suppose it depends on what they are allowed to legally change and when. A vote and acceptance based on the required majority for something in the future e.g. say next season, will be different to a change now where some members can gain a financial benefit at the expense of others.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2020, 04:04:15 PM
I did read the rules when this first started and I am pretty sure it said they can form special committees.
You can download the rules.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 10, 2020, 04:18:15 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on May 10, 2020, 04:19:01 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
No I haven’t read any rules or any contingency plan (Rule) in the case of a rule change. I’m sure if there was such a plan we’d know all about it by now so I can make the assumption that there isn’t. That being the case, there is very much a case to fight and a case very much in favour of those who might be disadvantaged. A committee means the square root of fuck all if 3 teams are to be disadvantaged resulting in a negative outcome.You stated above that they could not change unless all 19 teams agree, now you say you have not read the rules. It’s been pretty widely reported that they can take a vote on a 2/3rds so you have heard about it.
As I said, it may not stand up in a court of law.
Post by: Clive W on May 10, 2020, 04:32:41 PM
Not sure whether this helps - from the EPL Handbook rules
A.1.169.
“Season” means the period commencing on the date of the first League Match on the fixture list of the League’s first team competition and ending on the date of the last;
C.1.
Each Club shall play two League Matches against each other Club each Season, being the Home Club in respect of one such League Match and the Visiting Club in respect of the other.
C.14.
Subject to Rule C.15, the bottom three Clubs in the table at the end of the Season shall be relegated to The Football League.
So my understanding is that there at least 3 rules that would need to be altered requiring at least 14 in favour. Then the FA with its Special Share would need to give its consent. Only then could an amended rule C14 (presumably now amended to include some PPG calculation) be put to a vote, again requiring 14 to approve.
Also from the 2006 Companies Act :-
172Duty to promote the success of the company
(1)A director of a company must act in the way he considers, in good faith, would be most likely to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members as a whole, and in doing so have regard (amongst other matters) to—
(a)the likely consequences of any decision in the long term,
(b)the interests of the company's employees,
(c)the need to foster the company's business relationships with suppliers, customers and others,
(d)the impact of the company's operations on the community and the environment,
(e)the desirability of the company maintaining a reputation for high standards of business conduct, and
(f)the need to act fairly as between members of the company.
So all those people bleating about the bottom 6 only acting out of self interest...they’re absolutely correct. The Directors have a LEGAL duty to do so.
Post by: Clive W on May 10, 2020, 05:02:29 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 10, 2020, 05:19:50 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 05:25:06 PM
It’s dog eat dog and I’d imagine every club would happily send us down
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 10, 2020, 05:33:30 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 05:37:18 PM
This is what I don’t get about the 14 vote for them to use PPG. Each vote (team) will know the outcome before voting so obviously 16 votes would pass 🤷🏻♂️
It’s dog eat dog and I’d imagine every club would happily send us down
It depends whether clubs think "it's not us this time but could be next time". A precedent that some may not wish to set.
Post by: Richard on May 10, 2020, 05:37:53 PM
Post by: Mister E on May 10, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
That would force them to scrap the season; they couldn't - after having re-started - then impose a PPG or some other theoretical determinant.
Another factor: which Villa squad will turn up if the league does re-start? - the team of the first dozen games that played flowing football and scored a decent number of goals? Or, the insipid team of the last 6-8 games that had clearly lost its mojo?
I wonder what sort of fitness regime they've been on? - they may come back with an aggressive and effective pressing game and the stamina to actually last a game?
Post by: Legion on May 10, 2020, 05:43:02 PM
Post by: saunders_heroes on May 10, 2020, 05:44:58 PM
Would Heaton, McGinn and Wesley be available for selection?
McGinn, definitely. Not sure the other 2 were named in the squad in January.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 10, 2020, 05:46:31 PM
Post by: frank black on May 10, 2020, 05:57:08 PM
Wesley and Heaton wouldn’t, unless there’s another rule change on registration. It’d be moot anyway, because they’re still some way from being recovered aren’t they?
I believe they can be reregistered as squad members now. But as you say probably some way off match fit.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 06:12:23 PM
Wesley and Heaton wouldn’t, unless there’s another rule change on registration. It’d be moot anyway, because they’re still some way from being recovered aren’t they?
I believe they can be reregistered as squad members now. But as you say probably some way off match fit.
You would think that this would be part of the deal regarding players' contracts ending in June. Not all clubs would want to retain players whose contracts expire and they would want to replace them in the squad. There is also the question of loan players and whether clubs will be forced to extend loan periods e.g. the Sheff Utd. keeper on loan from Man Utd.
Post by: Damo70 on May 10, 2020, 06:39:27 PM
This is what I don’t get about the 14 vote for them to use PPG. Each vote (team) will know the outcome before voting so obviously 16 votes would pass 🤷🏻♂️
It’s dog eat dog and I’d imagine every club would happily send us down
It depends whether clubs think "it's not us this time but could be next time". A precedent that some may not wish to set.
Personally I think every club will just think about what is best for them in the here and now. Any potential future precedent will go out of the window in their short term thinking.
The only possible alternative to voiding the season in my opinion would be top six play offs for European places and bottom six play offs for relegation/survival places. Which means club A could have done the double over club B and also gained more points than them over the season but still be relegated instead of the other club.
But for me the season just needs to be voided and let's start again next season whenever they decide how and when it will restart.
Post by: frank black on May 10, 2020, 06:52:18 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 06:52:45 PM
Post by: Damo70 on May 10, 2020, 07:12:04 PM
They’re definitely not voiding this season. I reckon that they may offer the bottom teams a no relegation guarantee if project restart doesn’t complete the season. (In my view it will fall down at some point)
If you have no relegation through the leagues you can't have promotion through the leagues. Which negates the league system to the point you may as well void the season.
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 07:17:48 PM
Post by: Dave P on May 10, 2020, 07:17:54 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 07:19:24 PM
No direct nod from Boris at all towards professional sport in his speech.
Nope, you can play sport with your own immediate family. Therefore, unless Tyrone marries Bjorn, they shouldn't be playing next to each other anytime soon.
Post by: Villan82 on May 10, 2020, 07:21:16 PM
They’re definitely not voiding this season. I reckon that they may offer the bottom teams a no relegation guarantee if project restart doesn’t complete the season. (In my view it will fall down at some point)
If you have no relegation through the leagues you can't have promotion through the leagues. Which negates the league system to the point you may as well void the season.
Why do you say that? 20 team top tier is not written in stone. i am old enough to remember when it was more than 20 teams and surely that has to be the solution here. Relegate 5 next season or 4 with 2 up instead of 3. it is totally unreasonable to relegate teams.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 10, 2020, 07:28:12 PM
Post by: DB on May 10, 2020, 07:28:57 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 10, 2020, 07:33:57 PM
To make room for the extra games, you could drop the League Cup, it may the end it.
And we'd have played in first and last final
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 10, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 10, 2020, 07:39:48 PM
To make room for the extra games, you could drop the League Cup, it may the end it.
I'd rather get rid of league games than eliminate one of our two vaguely plausible chances of winning silverware.
Post by: olaftab on May 10, 2020, 07:43:03 PM
To make room for the extra games, you could drop the League Cup, it may the end it.NO. It’s our cup.
Post by: olaftab on May 10, 2020, 07:44:27 PM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 10, 2020, 07:49:09 PM
That doesn't seem to tie in with project restart.
Post by: frank black on May 10, 2020, 07:51:59 PM
Bojo said only members of the same family could play sports.
That doesn't seem to tie in with project restart.
Small Heath could field a team though.
Post by: DB on May 10, 2020, 07:54:17 PM
To make room for the extra games, you could drop the League Cup, it may the end it.
I'd rather get rid of league games than eliminate one of our two vaguely plausible chances of winning silverware.
So would I, just thinking what they may do if they had that choice.
Post by: andyh on May 10, 2020, 08:06:14 PM
So Boris has said nothing that will help football admins make a decision other than we can possibly do more stuff in July.Because, as usual he doesn’t want to own anything.
Spin, bluster and obfuscation, and put the decision making onus on everyone else.
Post by: walsall villain on May 10, 2020, 08:26:21 PM
Post by: Legion on May 10, 2020, 08:27:54 PM
If everyone still has to social distance at work then how can you play football?
Shots in from either end of the office?
Post by: walsall villain on May 10, 2020, 08:33:38 PM
Thinking back we used to do that actuallyIf everyone still has to social distance at work then how can you play football?
Shots in from either end of the office?
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 08:34:43 PM
Reason for my question (or series of questions) is, playing devil's advocate, why is it fair to prevent teams going up using PPG but not fair to relegate teams?
Why is PPG fair at all? Leeds imploded last season, Liverpool have lost four on the trot. Football is completely unpredictable, hence Watford 3 Liverpool 0. Why is PPG considered any more accurate than any other model put forward. Do not use it at all.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 10, 2020, 08:35:43 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 10, 2020, 08:38:31 PM
So Boris has said nothing that will help football admins make a decision other than we can possibly do more stuff in July.Because, as usual he doesn’t want to own anything.
Spin, bluster and obfuscation, and put the decision making onus on everyone else.
Tell you what he will own, outright, the second spike.
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 08:45:27 PM
So Boris has said nothing that will help football admins make a decision other than we can possibly do more stuff in July.Because, as usual he doesn’t want to own anything.
Spin, bluster and obfuscation, and put the decision making onus on everyone else.
Tell you what he will own, outright, the second spike.
Which, potentially, could be encouraged by the return of football, just because they value money above life.
Post by: Legion on May 10, 2020, 08:46:52 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 08:47:44 PM
It's turning into something so surreal even David Lynch could not come up with.
I reckon Monty Python would give it a good go though Legion.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 08:49:20 PM
Post by: Legion on May 10, 2020, 08:49:22 PM
Post by: brian green on May 10, 2020, 08:58:08 PM
Post by: Scratchins on May 10, 2020, 08:59:14 PM
Reason for my question (or series of questions) is, playing devil's advocate, why is it fair to prevent teams going up using PPG but not fair to relegate teams?
Why is PPG fair at all? Leeds imploded last season, Liverpool have lost four on the trot. Football is completely unpredictable, hence Watford 3 Liverpool 0. Why is PPG considered any more accurate than any other model put forward. Do not use it at all.
Last season at the point where games were stopped weren't we something like 10th?
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 09:00:50 PM
Genuine question, heard a lot about 22 team division next season with Leeds and Albion. How do people envisage this working further down the leagues? Two teams up from each division? 94 in the league overall? How do you decide who goes up? PPG?
Believe the leagues current issue is then having to split the tv pot among more teams
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 10, 2020, 09:00:57 PM
It's turning into something so surreal even David Lynch could not come up with.
I can see another Twin Peaks here.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 09:01:51 PM
Reason for my question (or series of questions) is, playing devil's advocate, why is it fair to prevent teams going up using PPG but not fair to relegate teams?
Why is PPG fair at all? Leeds imploded last season, Liverpool have lost four on the trot. Football is completely unpredictable, hence Watford 3 Liverpool 0. Why is PPG considered any more accurate than any other model put forward. Do not use it at all.
Last season at the point where games were stopped weren't we something like 10th?
Yep and Sheff United were not in autos
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 10, 2020, 09:04:01 PM
Genuine question, heard a lot about 22 team division next season with Leeds and Albion. How do people envisage this working further down the leagues? Two teams up from each division? 94 in the league overall? How do you decide who goes up? PPG?
Believe the leagues current issue is then having to split the tv pot among more teams
It wouldn't be that many more as they need to add one to replace Bury, anyway.Maybe they could ask for the parachute payments from the Premier League but, as there are no relegated teams, share them among all the other clubs?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 10, 2020, 09:06:24 PM
Reason for my question (or series of questions) is, playing devil's advocate, why is it fair to prevent teams going up using PPG but not fair to relegate teams?
Why is PPG fair at all? Leeds imploded last season, Liverpool have lost four on the trot. Football is completely unpredictable, hence Watford 3 Liverpool 0. Why is PPG considered any more accurate than any other model put forward. Do not use it at all.
Last season at the point where games were stopped weren't we something like 10th?
Yep and Sheff United were not in autos
I'm not saying it is fair. I've heard loads of people saying that 22 team Prem next season is a solution. I'm just wondering how those that do see it working further down the leagues.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 09:16:51 PM
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Post by: David_Nab on May 10, 2020, 09:22:25 PM
Reason for my question (or series of questions) is, playing devil's advocate, why is it fair to prevent teams going up using PPG but not fair to relegate teams?
Why is PPG fair at all? Leeds imploded last season, Liverpool have lost four on the trot. Football is completely unpredictable, hence Watford 3 Liverpool 0. Why is PPG considered any more accurate than any other model put forward. Do not use it at all.
Last season at the point where games were stopped weren't we something like 10th?
Yep and Sheff United were not in autos
I'm not saying it is fair. I've heard loads of people saying that 22 team Prem next season is a solution. I'm just wondering how those that do see it working further down the leagues.
Well at this point the suggestion is the lower league teams are likely to go bust with no games with fans. As it is L1/L2 looks like confirming this week no more games and Championship teams are edging that way too
The theory now is that any team relegated will go down to the EFL in such a state with the parachute payments and FFP not enforceable that they should bounce back up easily ...of course the first season we went down and spent a shed load would show easier than it sounds.
Post by: john2710 on May 10, 2020, 09:50:42 PM
Tonight I’m fully believing they will try and relegate us on PPG.
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Using PPG is feasible if we'd all played the same number of games. Except we haven't.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 09:53:11 PM
Tonight I’m fully believing they will try and relegate us on PPG.
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Using PPG is feasible if we'd all played the same number of games. Except we haven't.
Hope you’re right
Post by: aev on May 10, 2020, 10:02:34 PM
Fwiw I don’t believe they would relegate anyone from the PL on PPG but I am amazed that we haven’t even got this far without it being cancelled anyway.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 10, 2020, 10:03:42 PM
I know we’d be fkd whichever way it was calculated but for the other 2 that would be relegated with us does it make a difference if the home and away weighting is used?
Fwiw I don’t believe they would relegate anyone from the PL on PPG but I am amazed that we haven’t even got this far without it being cancelled anyway.
If they used home and away form then West Ham go down with us and Norwich
Post by: Ad@m on May 10, 2020, 10:09:18 PM
Tonight I’m fully believing they will try and relegate us on PPG.
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Using PPG is feasible if we'd all played the same number of games. Except we haven't.
Surely PPG only makes sense if we haven't played the same number of games? If we had, they'd just use the table as it stood.
Post by: aev on May 10, 2020, 10:12:31 PM
Tonight I’m fully believing they will try and relegate us on PPG.
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Using PPG is feasible if we'd all played the same number of games. Except we haven't.
Surely PPG only makes sense if we haven't played the same number of games? If we had, they'd just use the table as it stood.
Not if they weight home and away games.
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2020, 10:15:14 PM
Tonight I’m fully believing they will try and relegate us on PPG.
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Using PPG is feasible if we'd all played the same number of games. Except we haven't.
Surely PPG only makes sense if we haven't played the same number of games? If we had, they'd just use the table as it stood.
Not if they weight home and away games.
Didn't you work out that we'd have 41 points aev?
Post by: Des Little on May 10, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Post by: Clive W on May 10, 2020, 10:54:47 PM
Post by: Villan82 on May 10, 2020, 10:57:22 PM
I think it’s safe to assume that, even when faced with overpowering legal challenges to relegating teams without playing, the tried and trusted approach of throwing money at us as a hush money will be the outcome.
Relegation is more severe than anything else in football. it is a year of being in the wilderness (minimum). No money can compensate. I detested every moment of it.
Post by: adrenachrome on May 10, 2020, 11:08:51 PM
Government to give green light to June Premier League return but growing club opposition to neutral venues
The Prime Minister will reveal details of his roadmap out of lockdown on Monday with plans for a professional sports return next month
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/10/eight-premier-league-clubs-argue-against-using-neutral-venues/)
Post by: adrenachrome on May 10, 2020, 11:15:10 PM
Telegraph
Government to give green light to June Premier League return but growing club opposition to neutral venues
The Prime Minister will reveal details of his roadmap out of lockdown on Monday with plans for a professional sports return next month
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/10/eight-premier-league-clubs-argue-against-using-neutral-venues/)Quote
...
There are suggestions that the dissident clubs will themselves be met with a strong reaction from those who have depicted them as a group of self-interested saboteurs who simply want relegation to be scrapped.
The only vote on Monday will, in line with Fifa’s recommendation, be to extend player contracts which are due to run out on June 30 so that they can cover the remainder of the season. It will need a majority of 14 clubs to approve the Premier League’s plan and the dissident clubs could use it as a protest vote, although that seems unlikely at this stage.
What will not be discussed is voiding relegation this season as a condition of playing the remaining 92 games. It was raised by one club at the previous Premier League meeting, a week last Friday, but was immediately shot down although some clubs do feel it should be on the agenda.
...
Post by: David_Nab on May 10, 2020, 11:15:29 PM
Quote
'Professional players have been shown to be regularly immunosuppressed,' former Chelsea doctor Dr Eva Carneiro told me four weeks ago.
'This has been demonstrated by both blood tests and the rate and incidence of upper respiratory tract and other infections, which is how a virus like this starts. That's due to the amount of sport they play.’
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 11:19:15 PM
Daily Telegraph reporting that the government has given the ok to resume in June
Doesn't quite say that. The following is the start of the article.
The Premier League has been given a huge boost with Government sources confirming that plans are on track for professional sports to return in June. On Monday the Prime Minister will reveal in Parliament further details of his roadmap to get out of lockdown, with a government paper on elite sports expected to be published on Tuesday.
These will give the green light for professional sports to return next month, including the Premier League's planned resumption on June 12, subject to safety conditions being met and coronavirus infection rates not rising. However Boris Johnson’s go-ahead comes as up to eight Premier League clubs are expected to argue against the use of neutral venues and call for ‘Project Restart’ to be put back at a crucial meeting today.
Government guidance may weaken their resolve but Telegraph Sport understands that the bottom six clubs have been joined by two others, both significantly higher up the league, in their opposition to the plans with feelings running high after Brighton announced that a third player had tested positive for coronavirus and will have to go into 14-day isolation.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 10, 2020, 11:34:56 PM
Tonight I’m fully believing they will try and relegate us on PPG.
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Results have shown (not theory) that if PPG had been used over the last 10 seasons to decide the last 9 matches, 10 teams would have been relegated that actually stayed up. Also, Leicester would not have won the Premier league. Using the results of the first 29 matches to interpolate out to the end of the season is not accurate proven by history. Therefore it has no sound basis for use.
Post by: Clive W on May 10, 2020, 11:45:31 PM
Daily Telegraph reporting that the government has given the ok to resume in June
Doesn't quite say that. The following is the start of the article.
The Premier League has been given a huge boost with Government sources confirming that plans are on track for professional sports to return in June. On Monday the Prime Minister will reveal in Parliament further details of his roadmap to get out of lockdown, with a government paper on elite sports expected to be published on Tuesday.
These will give the green light for professional sports to return next month, including the Premier League's planned resumption on June 12, subject to safety conditions being met and coronavirus infection rates not rising. However Boris Johnson’s go-ahead comes as up to eight Premier League clubs are expected to argue against the use of neutral venues and call for ‘Project Restart’ to be put back at a crucial meeting today.
Government guidance may weaken their resolve but Telegraph Sport understands that the bottom six clubs have been joined by two others, both significantly higher up the league, in their opposition to the plans with feelings running high after Brighton announced that a third player had tested positive for coronavirus and will have to go into 14-day isolation.
You are quite right - I was just going from the headline
Post by: old man villa fan on May 11, 2020, 12:07:31 AM
"The league’s medical protocol remains unfinished but a draft is expected to be presented to clubs for their consideration before further discussions with the League Managers’ Association and the Professional Footballers’ Association later in the day".
"If the medical protocol is agreed it will likely be put to a vote later in the week, with the timescale assigned to Project Restart requiring a return to group training by 18 May".
We are talking about players' and staff health and wellbeing and they seem to be passing it off quite flippantly. It seems as though they think it can be agreed in a couple of days, if that.
Post by: David_Nab on May 11, 2020, 12:39:34 AM
You do wonder about the Premier League when you read comments like:
"The league’s medical protocol remains unfinished but a draft is expected to be presented to clubs for their consideration before further discussions with the League Managers’ Association and the Professional Footballers’ Association later in the day".
"If the medical protocol is agreed it will likely be put to a vote later in the week, with the timescale assigned to Project Restart requiring a return to group training by 18 May".
We are talking about players' and staff health and wellbeing and they seem to be passing it off quite flippantly. It seems as though they think it can be agreed in a couple of days, if that.
Also consider all these decisions about players running round next to each other , are being made over video chat !
Post by: artvandelay on May 11, 2020, 01:11:22 AM
Post by: Damo70 on May 11, 2020, 02:14:34 AM
Telegraph
Government to give green light to June Premier League return but growing club opposition to neutral venues
The Prime Minister will reveal details of his roadmap out of lockdown on Monday with plans for a professional sports return next month
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/10/eight-premier-league-clubs-argue-against-using-neutral-venues/)Quote
...
There are suggestions that the dissident clubs will themselves be met with a strong reaction from those who have depicted them as a group of self-interested saboteurs who simply want relegation to be scrapped.
The only vote on Monday will, in line with Fifa’s recommendation, be to extend player contracts which are due to run out on June 30 so that they can cover the remainder of the season. It will need a majority of 14 clubs to approve the Premier League’s plan and the dissident clubs could use it as a protest vote, although that seems unlikely at this stage.
What will not be discussed is voiding relegation this season as a condition of playing the remaining 92 games. It was raised by one club at the previous Premier League meeting, a week last Friday, but was immediately shot down although some clubs do feel it should be on the agenda.
...
I wonder if the one club who discussed voiding relegation was West Ham and their charming owners?
Post by: OzVilla on May 11, 2020, 04:17:55 AM
Surely Ashley wouldn't take the risk and the Saudi's certainly wouldn't want him too as it'll all be on the proviso that they are in the PL.
Post by: aev on May 11, 2020, 06:13:26 AM
Tonight I’m fully believing they will try and relegate us on PPG.
Few points on it though:
1) precedent set from FA lower league being an issue
2) 100% expect us to legally challenge
3) worst case I’d imagine premier league would have to massively financially compensate anyone they try and relegate
Using PPG is feasible if we'd all played the same number of games. Except we haven't.
Surely PPG only makes sense if we haven't played the same number of games? If we had, they'd just use the table as it stood.
Not if they weight home and away games.
Didn't you work out that we'd have 41 points aev?
Not me.
Post by: sid1964 on May 11, 2020, 06:23:22 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 11, 2020, 07:05:27 AM
The Athletic reporting Leagues One and Two will be finished this week, with a weighted home/away points per game applied to the remaining fixtures to decide final standings. God knows what the calculation might be but as our home form is better and we have more home games left...
Seen someone say for us:
6 home games left (71% of points) = 12.78 (rounded to 13 points), 4 away games (29% of points) =3.48 (rounded down to 3 points). Total = 16 points from remaining 10 games.
Currently 25 points + 16 points = 41
That right?
Its here, I've not worked out if its correct or not though.
For all this talk of PPG, which just seems to trip so easily off the tongue for some, I don't hear anybody say which particular model of PPG as there are about 4 or 5 they could go with.
1) Current league points x games, 2) Points weighted by home and away performance thus far, 3) League placings after 19 games, 4) Placings when the number of games played were last equal. 5) A N other
Even just going to PPG will cause issues as i'm sure each of these would provide a different outcome in some way.
So which PPG model and why that particular model over any of the others? You'd think it'd be a lawyers paradise.
Post by: algy on May 11, 2020, 08:07:25 AM
Is it today when they will make a decision whether to re-start the season or void it?UEFA's deadline is 25th May, so I'm not expecting anything definitive before then.
Post by: john e on May 11, 2020, 08:41:04 AM
The Athletic reporting Leagues One and Two will be finished this week, with a weighted home/away points per game applied to the remaining fixtures to decide final standings. God knows what the calculation might be but as our home form is better and we have more home games left...
Seen someone say for us:
6 home games left (71% of points) = 12.78 (rounded to 13 points), 4 away games (29% of points) =3.48 (rounded down to 3 points). Total = 16 points from remaining 10 games.
Currently 25 points + 16 points = 41
That right?
Its here, I've not worked out if its correct or not though.
For all this talk of PPG, which just seems to trip so easily off the tongue for some, I don't hear anybody say which particular model of PPG as there are about 4 or 5 they could go with.
1) Current league points x games, 2) Points weighted by home and away performance thus far, 3) League placings after 19 games, 4) Placings when the number of games played were last equal. 5) A N other
Even just going to PPG will cause issues as i'm sure each of these would provide a different outcome in some way.
So which PPG model and why that particular model over any of the others? You'd think it'd be a lawyers paradise.
is there one where it works out we stay up ?
if there is that’s the best one I think
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 11, 2020, 11:01:37 AM
Post by: LeeB on May 11, 2020, 11:20:19 AM
I still think Newcastle could easily be in the void relegation camp. With a bad run they could still mathematically go down and that would completely scupper the Saudi takeover.
Surely Ashley wouldn't take the risk and the Saudi's certainly wouldn't want him too as it'll all be on the proviso that they are in the PL.
I was thinking of another club that would have no real reason to carry on that no-one else seems to have mentioned, namely Man City.
- They're not at risk of finishing anywhere but 2nd
- They're already banned from European competition pending appeals
- Their manager, a man who seems to be a man of some principle and not likely to be cowed into towing a party line, has lost a parent to this disease
- Probably the one club to whom losing TV money would not make a fig of difference
There's doesn't strike me as a great deal of motivation for them to put their staff at risk from this, I could see them voting against it.
Post by: algy on May 11, 2020, 12:24:27 PM
Excellent shout. Also, the possibility of suspension of FFP would probably suit them, and that's (even) more likely without TV money, and more likely to go on for longer. They've very little reason to want to play out the season.I still think Newcastle could easily be in the void relegation camp. With a bad run they could still mathematically go down and that would completely scupper the Saudi takeover.
Surely Ashley wouldn't take the risk and the Saudi's certainly wouldn't want him too as it'll all be on the proviso that they are in the PL.
I was thinking of another club that would have no real reason to carry on that no-one else seems to have mentioned, namely Man City.
- They're not at risk of finishing anywhere but 2nd
- They're already banned from European competition pending appeals
- Their manager, a man who seems to be a man of some principle and not likely to be cowed into towing a party line, has lost a parent to this disease
- Probably the one club to whom losing TV money would not make a fig of difference
There's doesn't strike me as a great deal of motivation for them to put their staff at risk from this, I could see them voting against it.
Post by: cdward on May 11, 2020, 12:26:44 PM
So, in summary,
Not sure whether this helps - from the EPL Handbook rules
A.1.169.
“Season” means the period commencing on the date of the first League Match on the fixture list of the League’s first team competition and ending on the date of the last;
C.1.
Each Club shall play two League Matches against each other Club each Season, being the Home Club in respect of one such League Match and the Visiting Club in respect of the other.
C.14.
Subject to Rule C.15, the bottom three Clubs in the table at the end of the Season shall be relegated to The Football League.
1. a "season" is when the fixture list is completed.
2. The fixture list is all clubs playing each other home and away
3. Relegation can only happen at the end of the "season".
There is enough in those 3 rules that will keep the lawyers busy.
Post by: David_Nab on May 11, 2020, 12:38:23 PM
I still think Newcastle could easily be in the void relegation camp. With a bad run they could still mathematically go down and that would completely scupper the Saudi takeover.
Surely Ashley wouldn't take the risk and the Saudi's certainly wouldn't want him too as it'll all be on the proviso that they are in the PL.
I was thinking of another club that would have no real reason to carry on that no-one else seems to have mentioned, namely Man City.
- They're not at risk of finishing anywhere but 2nd
- They're already banned from European competition pending appeals
- Their manager, a man who seems to be a man of some principle and not likely to be cowed into towing a party line, has lost a parent to this disease
- Probably the one club to whom losing TV money would not make a fig of difference
There's doesn't strike me as a great deal of motivation for them to put their staff at risk from this, I could see them voting against it.
The points stand even if they do go along with it , they will just half ass it . Reserves / 5 subs a game etc
Usually at this time of season you have teams not up for it , part of the reason the bottom 3 can change so much as they are still motivated playing teams much less so .This time however they will give teams 5 subs thus allowing a 50% change of the outfield 10 at least but prob even keepers.
Post by: David_Nab on May 11, 2020, 01:24:37 PM
Quote
1. Do you, on behalf of the Government, accept that it is the guidance of the UK Government that will underpin any positive decision to finish the 2019/2020 Premier League season; that the Government’s support is therefore a necessary condition for the project to work; and that therefore you will place in the House of Commons Library the Government’s advice to the Premier League?
2. Will you also publish the technical and medical documents that inform the decisions that you take on restarting the Premier League?
3. What mechanism have you established to take evidence from club doctors, independent of owners?
4. Who will be ultimately liable for the efficacy of occupational health risk assessments? Will it be club medical staff? What are the reasonable standards required during this current COVID-19 pandemic?
5. Will you place in the House of Commons Library advice provided by Public Health England on Project Restart?
6. How many COVID-19 tests will the completion of the current Premier League season require?
7. How many people, in total, will be present for games in order to complete the Premier League season?
8. How many medical staff will be present for games?
9. How many other non-playing staff will be present?
10. How will referees be allocated, and what advice have you provided for referees?
11. How many journalists and other media professionals will be present, and what advice has been provided for them?
12. For all the above groups, who will supply Personal Protective Equipment, and who will manage its correct use?
13. Over what time-frame will games be played?
14. What protocol has been agreed for responding to positive test results? Will you place this protocol in the House of Commons Library?
15. What financial support will the Premier League provide to the EFL and other leagues as part of Project Restart?
16. Will the 2020/2021 season of the Premier League be played without interruption or alteration?
17. What role has the Government asked the FA to play in the conclusion of the Premier League season?
18. What role has the Government asked the FA to play in supporting the grassroots game, and planning for its rebuild, once the current COVID19 outbreak is under control?
19. What steps is the Government planning to take if football clubs do collapse whilst waiting for the restart of football beyond the Premier League?
20. Given that Project Restart will not see fans watch games – for which they may hold tickets – will he work with clubs to see ticket prices are frozen or even reduced when fans are able to return to football grounds?
I would add
21.If football is not allowed to restart with the Government provide financial backing to stop clubs going under and if so what would be the mechanisms in place to recoup this funding
Post by: exigo on May 11, 2020, 01:45:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 11, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
I'm not saying it is fair. I've heard loads of people saying that 22 team Prem next season is a solution. I'm just wondering how those that do see it working further down the leagues.Championship and League 1 will expand accordingly for a season or two before numbers are adjusted back to 20, 24 and 24.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 11, 2020, 01:51:08 PM
The Athletic reporting Leagues One and Two will be finished this week, with a weighted home/away points per game applied to the remaining fixtures to decide final standings. God knows what the calculation might be but as our home form is better and we have more home games left...
Seen someone say for us:
6 home games left (71% of points) = 12.78 (rounded to 13 points), 4 away games (29% of points) =3.48 (rounded down to 3 points). Total = 16 points from remaining 10 games.
Currently 25 points + 16 points = 41
That right?
Its here, I've not worked out if its correct or not though.
For all this talk of PPG, which just seems to trip so easily off the tongue for some, I don't hear anybody say which particular model of PPG as there are about 4 or 5 they could go with.
1) Current league points x games, 2) Points weighted by home and away performance thus far, 3) League placings after 19 games, 4) Placings when the number of games played were last equal. 5) A N other
Even just going to PPG will cause issues as i'm sure each of these would provide a different outcome in some way.
So which PPG model and why that particular model over any of the others? You'd think it'd be a lawyers paradise.
is there one where it works out we stay up ?
if there is that’s the best one I think
PPG, however you get double points for wins against teams wearing yellow and green.
Post by: villasjf on May 11, 2020, 01:52:25 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 11, 2020, 01:52:39 PM
Excellent shout. Also, the possibility of suspension of FFP would probably suit them, and that's (even) more likely without TV money, and more likely to go on for longer. They've very little reason to want to play out the season.I still think Newcastle could easily be in the void relegation camp. With a bad run they could still mathematically go down and that would completely scupper the Saudi takeover.
Surely Ashley wouldn't take the risk and the Saudi's certainly wouldn't want him too as it'll all be on the proviso that they are in the PL.
I was thinking of another club that would have no real reason to carry on that no-one else seems to have mentioned, namely Man City.
- They're not at risk of finishing anywhere but 2nd
- They're already banned from European competition pending appeals
- Their manager, a man who seems to be a man of some principle and not likely to be cowed into towing a party line, has lost a parent to this disease
- Probably the one club to whom losing TV money would not make a fig of difference
There's doesn't strike me as a great deal of motivation for them to put their staff at risk from this, I could see them voting against it.
I’ve seen several Man City fans on Twitter who are totally against this project restart.
Post by: aev on May 11, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Excellent shout. Also, the possibility of suspension of FFP would probably suit them, and that's (even) more likely without TV money, and more likely to go on for longer. They've very little reason to want to play out the season.I still think Newcastle could easily be in the void relegation camp. With a bad run they could still mathematically go down and that would completely scupper the Saudi takeover.
Surely Ashley wouldn't take the risk and the Saudi's certainly wouldn't want him too as it'll all be on the proviso that they are in the PL.
I was thinking of another club that would have no real reason to carry on that no-one else seems to have mentioned, namely Man City.
- They're not at risk of finishing anywhere but 2nd
- They're already banned from European competition pending appeals
- Their manager, a man who seems to be a man of some principle and not likely to be cowed into towing a party line, has lost a parent to this disease
- Probably the one club to whom losing TV money would not make a fig of difference
There's doesn't strike me as a great deal of motivation for them to put their staff at risk from this, I could see them voting against it.
I’ve seen several Man City fans on Twitter who are totally against this project restart.
I think fans are more likely to think of the moral aspects, or of course jealousy towards other clubs.
Chairmen / CEO's only really give a shit about cash.
Post by: FrankyH on May 11, 2020, 02:23:39 PM
Ah footballs disappearing over the roof of the old Witton Lane Stand and watching it roll towards the road sometimes to be never seen again and others appearing to be thrown onto the pitch minutes after the new ball was in play.
Ken McNaught and Alan Evans must have wellied 4 or 5 ball out of Filbert Street ground the game we played there on the way to winning the league.
Post by: curiousorange on May 11, 2020, 02:41:56 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 11, 2020, 02:43:17 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 11, 2020, 02:47:23 PM
The government are massive twats.
In other news, the Pope found shitting in woods.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 11, 2020, 02:48:51 PM
I'm not saying it is fair. I've heard loads of people saying that 22 team Prem next season is a solution. I'm just wondering how those that do see it working further down the leagues.Championship and League 1 will expand accordingly for a season or two before numbers are adjusted back to 20, 24 and 24.
If it's top two promoted in each division, it's only the PL that will see an increase. Championship and League 1 will stay at 24, League 2 would drop to 22. Unless they promote from the conference, but then you're looking at some pretty harsh numbers of relegations out of the league itself to sort it back out again afterwards.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 11, 2020, 02:53:39 PM
Government says sporting events can resume from 1st June, behind closed doors.
I've just watched the avtv two minutes of highlights from this day last year, and found myself thinking, 'BCD, what a load of pointless shite that'll be'.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 11, 2020, 02:54:59 PM
Carry forward the points from this void season into next. Play any outstanding games first.
Restart the cups as they were.
Post by: andyh on May 11, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
Government says sporting events can resume from 1st June, behind closed doors.
Hmmm, that’s one way to say it.
The other would be that the governments reports says that top level sport cannot take place, even behind closed doors, before June 1st at the earliest.
Post by: aev on May 11, 2020, 03:16:04 PM
Would it be June 1st?
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 11, 2020, 03:27:07 PM
Post by: Mister E on May 11, 2020, 03:32:20 PM
The Athletic reporting Leagues One and Two will be finished this week, with a weighted home/away points per game applied to the remaining fixtures to decide final standings. God knows what the calculation might be but as our home form is better and we have more home games left...
Seen someone say for us:
6 home games left (71% of points) = 12.78 (rounded to 13 points), 4 away games (29% of points) =3.48 (rounded down to 3 points). Total = 16 points from remaining 10 games.
Currently 25 points + 16 points = 41
That right?
I've just wasted an hour of my life to work out the weighted final table.
At face value we're dead meat, along with Norwich and either Watford or Wet Spam depending on the final goal difference.
However, because the margins are so slight - we are on 34.98, WHU on 35.56 and Watford on 35.74 (with Bournemouth on 36.54) - it only needs one or two rogue results (Watford 3-0 Liverpool, for example) for this analysis to be rendered useless.
And, as has been argued long and hard on here for a while (particularly eruditely by Old Man VF, IIRC), team form isprone to change in the last quarter of the season.
A further consideration is that if we do go into the final 10 games, all teams will effectively be re-starting from scratch, and the question therefore arises: whose form will continue on the same trajectory that it left off at shutdown?
Post by: aev on May 11, 2020, 03:51:12 PM
“ Premier League to ask government to reconsider neutral grounds directive at request of more than half the clubs.”
Post by: olaftab on May 11, 2020, 04:08:19 PM
When are we expecting to hear about the fuckery from the Premier League meeting today? Is there a presser organised or will it be a Sky Sports understands kind of day?I believe there is only one item on agenda where an agreement is required today and this is about contract extensions past 30 June.
Post by: aev on May 11, 2020, 04:11:06 PM
“ FA tell Premier League it must be decided by "sporting merit" - either by games or mathematical formula, changing power bloc at bottom six”.
I am not sure about this. What mathematical formula do you use - obviously different forumlae will give different results? How would this be reached fairly?
I cant imagine that the season will have relegation if it cant be completed. The FA have done it for other leagues lower down. I would think the lawsuits would be very swift.
Post by: David_Nab on May 11, 2020, 04:15:22 PM
And from The Independent
“ FA tell Premier League it must be decided by "sporting merit" - either by games or mathematical formula, changing power bloc at bottom six”.
As I suspected they do this so the 6 becomes a 3
End of day looks like we have to play so let's hope we get our shit together and we play teams who can't be assed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 11, 2020, 04:29:08 PM
Post by: aev on May 11, 2020, 04:29:43 PM
And from The Independent
“ FA tell Premier League it must be decided by "sporting merit" - either by games or mathematical formula, changing power bloc at bottom six”.
As I suspected they do this so the 6 becomes a 3
End of day looks like we have to play so let's hope we get our shit together and we play teams who can't be assed
Maybe, but I posted above according to The Times more than half the league have requested the Gov't reconsider neutral venues.
Who do you believe?
What happens if the government say no, neutral venues cant be compromised. Does that mean the clubs refuse to play, and the bottom 3 get relegated. It is all bollocks.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 11, 2020, 04:33:19 PM
Getting relegated on PPG/maths is going to be a right kicker. Especially by one point! Kevin Friend............ 😡
Post by: Drummond on May 11, 2020, 04:33:22 PM
What does that actually mean?!
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 11, 2020, 04:42:13 PM
Our only hope of staying up is if we can get the games played. If not then we are utterly screwed.
Getting relegated on PPG/maths is going to be a right kicker. Especially by one point! Kevin Friend............ 😡
We did say at the time "What if that one point costs us at the end of the season"
It won't come to that. The only thing that can relegate us is if we are in the bottom 3 at the end of playing all our games home and away with crowds in attendance. Anything else disadvantages us.
Post by: aev on May 11, 2020, 04:47:59 PM
Our only hope of staying up is if we can get the games played. If not then we are utterly screwed.
Getting relegated on PPG/maths is going to be a right kicker. Especially by one point! Kevin Friend............ 😡
I can't see any team being relegated from the PL on a mathematical formula. The money involved is so big it would be surely challenged legally.
What happens if people get sick again before any games could be played - you can't relegate teams with all the financial implications with around a quarter of the season left?
Post by: olaftab on May 11, 2020, 05:00:32 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 11, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
We will 100% go legal on this.
One point about our game in hand.... we are being compared on PPG (home/away) to create a home value and an away. However we are one game behind Everyone else’s ‘average’ so by missing just that one game would either bring our home average down or up.
Using ‘science’ to end all this is just mental
Post by: olaftab on May 11, 2020, 05:03:55 PM
'changing power bloc at bottom six'Once they publish a formula bottom teams will be affected differently. It will favour some and negatively impact on others so effectively splitting the bloc.
What does that actually mean?!
Post by: olaftab on May 11, 2020, 05:06:49 PM
FA told the meeting today that if season can’t complete then sporting merit will complete the season and they won’t approve no relegation.So for the first time since Premier League was formed they are going to listen to the FA instead of as normal telling the FA?
We will 100% go legal on this.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 11, 2020, 05:22:48 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 11, 2020, 05:24:13 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 11, 2020, 05:26:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 11, 2020, 05:28:03 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 11, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
Can the FA “force” some sort of PPG system into the leagues without a tsunami of legal challenges?
Post by: Clive W on May 11, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
'changing power bloc at bottom six'I presume it means that the so called bottom 6 rebels will now be reduced to 2. If it ends up with any mathematical formula deciding relegation then I think that ourselves and Norwich are screwed - whichever method is chosen.
What does that actually mean?!
Therefore the FA assume that we will both be forced to vote to continue the season as our only hope of staying up.
I think that the 3rd relegation slot is between WHU and Bournemouth, depending on which ppg system is used. I would think that they would also vote to continue which would just leave Brighton and Watford as “rebels”.
My brain is starting to hurt so apologies if I’ve got this wrong
Post by: Billy Walker on May 11, 2020, 05:34:20 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 11, 2020, 05:36:28 PM
Surely PPG systems are agreed upon *before* the start of a season? This will get messy!It wasn’t
Post by: PeterWithe on May 11, 2020, 05:40:03 PM
Post by: Clive W on May 11, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
It would be nice to think that there would be some solidarity here but I’m not sure that will happen.
Can the FA “force” some sort of PPG system into the leagues without a tsunami of legal challenges?
As a cursory glance I’ve looked at the rights attached to the EPL Special Share that the FA holds. Whilst any changes to the relegation clauses in the EPL rules require the consent of the FA, I could not find anything that allows them unilaterally to change EPL rules - it has to come from the EPL. I may have missed some other overriding clause
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 11, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Post by: Clive W on May 11, 2020, 05:44:51 PM
Would we stay up using the Duckworth Lewis Method?No - we would have the lowest run rate. On account of the fact that most of our players don’t.
Post by: Des Little on May 11, 2020, 05:45:44 PM
Would we stay up using the Duckworth Lewis Method?
Only if there was an R in the month. Shit
Post by: Chris Smith on May 11, 2020, 05:47:15 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 11, 2020, 05:50:28 PM
I haven’t seen any mention of the clubs just outside the CL places, surely they would also have an interest in the season being completed rather than decided now. Arsenal and Sheffield United both have games in hand so for them and the teams just above them there is also a likely impact of using PPG.
Neither have much to gain from voiding though.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 11, 2020, 06:03:34 PM
I had been hoping the season would be voided and we'd stay up. If it looks like they can force through a PPG solution then I now hope we can find a way to play it out (safely of course).
Post by: Richard E on May 11, 2020, 06:18:48 PM
Post by: LukeJames on May 11, 2020, 06:18:57 PM
Post by: Damo70 on May 11, 2020, 06:24:45 PM
Would we stay up using the Duckworth Lewis Method?
It is all about money so it should be decided by the Martin Lewis method.
I suspect we will kick off the season again in June and fulfill the fixtures, which is the fairest thing to do in my opinion.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 11, 2020, 06:40:08 PM
Surely if a PPG system is to be used then it would have to have been created before the season began, when every team was on 0 points. A system cant be invented now, it would be open too to much scrutiny.You would hope the threat of legal challenge would put them off, but it seems not. It does feel like extortion at the moment though - vote to continue playing or we'll relegate you.
Post by: mr-villa on May 11, 2020, 06:56:13 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on May 11, 2020, 07:02:52 PM
Surely if a PPG system is to be used then it would have to have been created before the season began, when every team was on 0 points. A system cant be invented now, it would be open too to much scrutiny.
Yes, you can't tell someone that despite having 10 games left you've changed the rules and sorry but you're relegated. It sounds as ridiculous as it is.
Post by: eamonn on May 11, 2020, 07:03:53 PM
Would we stay up using the Duckworth Lewis Method?
Assume the perpendicular
Post by: Holte132 on May 11, 2020, 07:07:58 PM
Surely if a PPG system is to be used then it would have to have been created before the season began, when every team was on 0 points. A system cant be invented now, it would be open too to much scrutiny.
Yes, you can't tell someone that despite having 10 games left you've changed the rules and sorry but you're relegated. It sounds as ridiculous as it is.
Last season we won 10 in a row. I know that wouldn't have happened this season anyway, but it just shows how it's impossible to predict what might happen.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 11, 2020, 07:08:26 PM
Once they publish a formula bottom teams will be affected differently. It will favour some and negatively impact on others so effectively splitting the bloc.
In this era of social distancing relegation should be based on who has to travel the furthest to play their away games. ;)
Post by: phantom limb on May 11, 2020, 07:08:48 PM
Why the hell should any Championship club be able to come up into the PL having only had to play 37 games to get there??Especially when one of them is Leeds
Post by: andyh on May 11, 2020, 07:26:42 PM
https://www.skysports.com/share/11986600
Post by: olaftab on May 11, 2020, 07:43:44 PM
"Clubs discussed curtailing the season for the first time but all 20 Premier League clubs also remain committed to finishing the 2019/20 season.
"It was the first time we discussed curtailment - it's still our aim to finish the season obviously but it's important to discuss all the options with our clubs," Masters said.
"What I can say is that all of the talk was about finishing the season. No conclusions were reached on any other models. Those are future conversations we may need to have."
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 11, 2020, 08:03:18 PM
Other than Liverpool when they win the league, can anyone really envisage this happening?
Post by: phantom limb on May 11, 2020, 08:05:59 PM
It seems that the major reason for the neutral ground idea is to prevent fans congregating outside their home grounds.I could see it. There hasn’t been any football for two months and some people are going stir crazy.
Other than Liverpool when they win the league, can anyone really envisage this happening?
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 11, 2020, 08:06:10 PM
It seems that the major reason for the neutral ground idea is to prevent fans congregating outside their home grounds.Yes,I can imagine people standing on the Slope of Aston Park.
Other than Liverpool when they win the league, can anyone really envisage this happening?
Post by: andyh on May 11, 2020, 08:08:19 PM
It seems that the major reason for the neutral ground idea is to prevent fans congregating outside their home grounds.I pointed this out before.
Other than Liverpool when they win the league, can anyone really envisage this happening?
And in reply to your question, you know you know the answer.
And, in light of today’s announcement, remember Villa Park is right next door to Aston Park. There are now no restrictions on going to the park......see where I’m going with this?
Post by: Legion on May 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 11, 2020, 08:15:52 PM
It seems that the major reason for the neutral ground idea is to prevent fans congregating outside their home grounds.
Other than Liverpool when they win the league, can anyone really envisage this happening?
Which is bullshit to they honestly think that Liverpool fans won't rock up at any ground they could win the league at ?
Neutral venues are against now because as I have mentioned before clubs have sponsorship tied into their home grounds.So basically we have said neutral grounds are not fair due to loss of home advantage and we get criticised but now the big clubs are against it due to losing cash and it being reconsidered
Post by: Mister E on May 11, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
That is the incident that would stuff us if PPG were to be adopted.Our only hope of staying up is if we can get the games played. If not then we are utterly screwed.We did say at the time "What if that one point costs us at the end of the season"
Getting relegated on PPG/maths is going to be a right kicker. Especially by one point! Kevin Friend............ 😡
Calculating the home and away PPG we are currently screwed, but because the margins are so slight - we would be on 34.98, WHU on 35.56 and Watford on 35.74 (with Bournemouth on 36.54) - it only needs one or two rogue results (Watford 3-0 Liverpool, for example) for this analysis to be rendered useless.
And, this is complicated by the fact that a team's form is prone to change in the last quarter of the season. And, there's always one team which unexpectedly tanks in the final 10 games.
Post by: Big Ming on May 11, 2020, 08:49:43 PM
That would require just Villa and Sheffield Utd to train ahead of a one off fixture behind closed doors at VP.
The rest of the Premier League can stand down.
Doesn't solve the TV money problem/ sponsorships or a host of other issues, but it gives us a fighting chance.
Post by: Billy Walker on May 11, 2020, 08:50:40 PM
Post by: Big Ming on May 11, 2020, 08:55:21 PM
There is one model that suits us and that is if they roll back the placings to the last round of fixtures where we had all played an equal amount - that would be Round 27 where we would be in 17th place.The lawyers would be all over that.
Post by: Legion on May 11, 2020, 09:02:53 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 11, 2020, 09:03:54 PM
How about putting all teams in alphabetical order? We'd be third behind AFC Bournemouth and Arsenal.
Fuckin Bournemouth, they did that on purpose for just such an eventuality.
Post by: Billy Walker on May 11, 2020, 09:08:27 PM
There is one model that suits us and that is if they roll back the placings to the last round of fixtures where we had all played an equal amount - that would be Round 27 where we would be in 17th place.The lawyers would be all over that.
Yeah, I think the lawyers are going to be all over every PPG scenario.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 11, 2020, 09:09:56 PM
The very least that is required is that Villa should have played the same number of games as everyone else before an average points solution is applied.The idea of average points is that isn't required.
Post by: LukeJames on May 11, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 11, 2020, 09:17:54 PM
What the fuck does the A' in AFC Bournemouth even stand for? Athletic? I have not heard 1 single person ever call them Atletic Football Club Bornemouth, They have definately done that too be top in pre-season. Fair play.
Association. A few clubs, such as Sunderland, have AFC at the end of their name, presumably to distinguish them from rugby clubs which isn't the case for Bournemouth.
Post by: johnc on May 11, 2020, 09:30:57 PM
How about putting all teams in alphabetical order? We'd be third behind AFC Bournemouth and Arsenal.To be honest I think we would struggle in the Champions League next season
Post by: The Edge on May 11, 2020, 09:31:52 PM
There's only one fair solution. We resume the season only when it's declared safe to do so and the fixtures are played at the venues that were agreed at the start of the season and with fans in the ground. Any variation of that will be unfair on someone. If we have to wait 6 months then so be it. The game will survive and hopefully all the players will too.Would we stay up using the Duckworth Lewis Method?
It is all about money so it should be decided by the Martin Lewis method.
I suspect we will kick off the season again in June and fulfill the fixtures, which is the fairest thing to do in my opinion.
Post by: john2710 on May 11, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 11, 2020, 09:58:11 PM
Would we stay up using the Duckworth Lewis Method?
It is all about money so it should be decided by the Martin Lewis method.
I suspect we will kick off the season again in June and fulfill the fixtures, which is the fairest thing to do in my opinion.
So they'll void the season, then make up the deficit in income by collectively bargaining for better electricity and gas bills?
Cool.
Post by: Ad@m on May 11, 2020, 10:11:11 PM
Pritti Vacant was on the telly a week or so ago telling everyone what a fantastic job she'd done because pub fights were down, burglaries were down, shoplifting was down, etc.
The police have probably never had it so quiet.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 11, 2020, 10:12:39 PM
The PL are asking the gov't that games are played at home stadiums. As I understand it the police are the ones who've requested games are played at neutral venues. I can't see the police providing the resources to enable games at VP.
Won't the resource be the same wherever matches are played. Unless the PL are going to pay for the police, the home club should be responsible for police costs, not a neutral venue local authority.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 11, 2020, 10:15:41 PM
Out of interest, what's the police's beef with playing at the normal venues?
Pritti Vacant was on the telly a week or so ago telling everyone what a fantastic job she'd done because pub fights were down, burglaries were down, shoplifting was down, etc.
The police have probably never had it so quiet.
Wasn't it the reaction after the Mayor of Liverpool came out with a comment about Liverpool fans celebrating outside the ground.
Post by: LukeJames on May 11, 2020, 10:16:17 PM
Pritti Vacant was on the telly a week or so ago telling everyone what a fantastic job she'd done because pub fights were down
[/quote]
This will never get old 😂
Post by: frank black on May 11, 2020, 10:17:52 PM
The PL are asking the gov't that games are played at home stadiums. As I understand it the police are the ones who've requested games are played at neutral venues. I can't see the police providing the resources to enable games at VP.
Won't the resource be the same wherever matches are played. Unless the PL are going to pay for the police, the home club should be responsible for police costs, not a neutral venue local authority.
It’s bollocks rationale from the Police. They would have needed a load more at the games on a normal match day. I read the other day that Covid has led to them have more resources to put towards drugs raids etc....I’m sure they could spare a meat wagon to round up half a dozen numpties that want to hang around our ground.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 11, 2020, 10:34:49 PM
Post by: OzVilla on May 11, 2020, 10:53:08 PM
As clubs become 5% shareholders in the PL you’d think there’s legal documentation that needs to be signed and countersigned by each club and the PL before each season. If that contract doesn’t include any provisions for ending the season early and scenarios with potential PPG formula clearly stated then surely any attempt to enforce such would be in contravention of that agreement and thus be legally challenged.
On face value it appears a slam dunk case surely?
Anyone with any legal knowledge able to comment?
Post by: David_Nab on May 11, 2020, 10:59:56 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 11, 2020, 11:10:40 PM
If you get into the Championship can't finish , can the PL justifiably say you didnt finish no promotion ?
Good point David. I wonder if that's what they are trying to achieve so they can leave no relegation in place.
Post by: David_Nab on May 11, 2020, 11:20:31 PM
So even if playing they taking a hit and I still fail to see how removing relegation effects that more .If football comes back and there no relegation do you think Sky will let me out of my contract if I call up and say sorry no relegation I want out ...
Leeds fans you would think after all their issues they would sympathise with clubs , but no they seems as excited to relegate clubs as be promoted ! What piss's me off is the Villa wont play relegate them narrative meanwhile I see Leeds fans asking for Championship to end so they can be promoted on PPG !!
Post by: Gareth on May 11, 2020, 11:36:50 PM
Post by: ROBBO on May 12, 2020, 12:12:02 AM
Post by: Clive W on May 12, 2020, 12:34:55 AM
So now being reported that the FA are planning to block any no relegation agreement. Can they afford the legal fees?
As clubs become 5% shareholders in the PL you’d think there’s legal documentation that needs to be signed and countersigned by each club and the PL before each season. If that contract doesn’t include any provisions for ending the season early and scenarios with potential PPG formula clearly stated then surely any attempt to enforce such would be in contravention of that agreement and thus be legally challenged.
On face value it appears a slam dunk case surely?
Anyone with any legal knowledge able to comment?
Posted this earlier
Not a lawyer but was a company secretary before I retired. Not sure whether this helps - from the EPL Handbook rules
A.1.169.
“Season” means the period commencing on the date of the first League Match on the fixture list of the League’s first team competition and ending on the date of the last;
C.1.
Each Club shall play two League Matches against each other Club each Season, being the Home Club in respect of one such League Match and the Visiting Club in respect of the other.
C.14.
Subject to Rule C.15, the bottom three Clubs in the table at the end of the Season shall be relegated to The Football League.
So my understanding is that there at least 3 rules that would need to be altered requiring at least 14 in favour. Then the FA with its Special Share would need to give its consent. Only then could an amended rule C14 (presumably now amended to include some PPG calculation) be put to a vote, again requiring 14 to approve.
I’ve also had a look at the rights attached to the FA’s Special Share. While it requires their consent for any changes to the EPL rules re relegation it doesn’t appear that they can impose it - it has to come from the EPL i.e. the changes required above. Having said that the FA has overall jurisdiction and there may be another clause somewhere that allows them to do so.
Post by: aev on May 12, 2020, 09:46:16 AM
Do you see teams being relegated at the end of the season?
"I think I've said that, if the season plays out, no-one has suggested, or talked about, relegation not being in play. So, on that, basis, yes."
And if it does not, what's the situation?
"You're getting into the discussions we had today about curtailment and the positive decisions that need to be taken. Those discussions are confidential."
So basically, nothing ruled in or out.
Post by: Risso on May 12, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
Post by: curiousorange on May 12, 2020, 10:37:10 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 12, 2020, 10:49:02 AM
I’ve always felt the game’s will be played anyway, if they are I still think we’ll stay up and I think whoever gets relegated will take legal action.
I also think one of Leeds are Albion won’t get promoted if they play out their games. No doubt they’ll be pushing for PPG after lecturing everyone about ‘integrity’.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 12, 2020, 11:05:14 AM
The game changer is the FA chiming in I think. If they are serious about exercising a veto against any removal of promotion/relegation that’s that.
I’ve always felt the game’s will be played anyway, if they are I still think we’ll stay up and I think whoever gets relegated will take legal action.
I also think one of Leeds are Albion won’t get promoted if they play out their games. No doubt they’ll be pushing for PPG after lecturing everyone about ‘integrity’.
Issue with this though (as posted few pages back by someone ) is the FA have already made a PPG v null and void decision and backed it up with the rational. Key part is the financial implication that relegation would have on someone
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 12, 2020, 11:14:06 AM
Post by: aev on May 12, 2020, 11:19:36 AM
They've had a million meetings now and come out with nothing substantial whatsoever.
Exactly, so much scrabbling around and nothing concrete has come out of this.
I am not a lawyer but it would make no sense for the FA to demand or insist on relegation (and the financial consequences for the relegated teams) from a league on some arbitrary calculation with so many games of the season left.
Post by: Billy Walker on May 12, 2020, 11:49:10 AM
Politically and economically, relegating clubs under these circumstances simply doesn't make sense either, as far as I can see. The case I am sure will be made (and Purslow hinted at it with the language he was using) that any club losing a Premier League place in the middle of a pandemic would suffer a catastrophic financial loss. A relegation from the Premier League is bad enough at any time, but at a time like this, the impact on livelihoods and local economies would be huge. Using a hastily cobbled together formula/definition of "sporting merit" to inflict economic damage on communities in the middle of a pandemic would not be a just solution to finalising a season that isn't even three-quarters run.
Post by: curiousorange on May 12, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 12, 2020, 11:56:52 AM
Arsenal owe the footballing world a relegation so they by right should take up one spot.
Haha 100% this!
Post by: David_Nab on May 12, 2020, 12:04:54 PM
The game changer is the FA chiming in I think. If they are serious about exercising a veto against any removal of promotion/relegation that’s that.
I’ve always felt the game’s will be played anyway, if they are I still think we’ll stay up and I think whoever gets relegated will take legal action.
I also think one of Leeds are Albion won’t get promoted if they play out their games. No doubt they’ll be pushing for PPG after lecturing everyone about ‘integrity’.
So then the FA can explain how they allowed lower leagues to end
This could include no relegation in EFL 2
How do they justify different rules when it suits them ?
Post by: LeeB on May 12, 2020, 12:18:11 PM
Arsenal owe the footballing world a relegation so they by right should take up one spot.
Lol, it was 'friends in the foreign office' that got them promoted despite finishing 5th.
If they were relying on the same friends in government now, the useless bastards would probably end up relegating them to the conference.
Post by: Big Ming on May 12, 2020, 12:23:27 PM
That's going to be dwarfed by the 1930's style depression that some are predicting.
Post by: mallo on May 12, 2020, 12:37:17 PM
I would hope that the players union supports them even more strongly than the TWU and teachers unions as their risk is much greater.
Post by: Nastylee on May 12, 2020, 01:30:11 PM
Don't know how relevant it actually is.
Post by: nick harper on May 12, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/coronavirus-amiens-president-plans-legal-action-against-ligue-1-relegation
Post by: Billy Walker on May 12, 2020, 01:47:49 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 12, 2020, 01:52:08 PM
They've had a million meetings now and come out with nothing substantial whatsoever.
Exactly, so much scrabbling around and nothing concrete has come out of this.
I am not a lawyer but it would make no sense for the FA to demand or insist on relegation (and the financial consequences for the relegated teams) from a league on some arbitrary calculation with so many games of the season left.
I think they know that what ever they do outside the norm litigation will follow. With that in mind it's a case of make it look like you're doing something until it's dragged on long enough to do what should have been done from the outset.
Post by: aev on May 12, 2020, 01:53:25 PM
They've had a million meetings now and come out with nothing substantial whatsoever.
Exactly, so much scrabbling around and nothing concrete has come out of this.
I am not a lawyer but it would make no sense for the FA to demand or insist on relegation (and the financial consequences for the relegated teams) from a league on some arbitrary calculation with so many games of the season left.
I think they know that what ever they do outside the norm litigation will follow. With that in mind it's a case of make it look like you're doing something until it's dragged on long enough to do what should have been done from the outset.
You'd think that would mean a 23 team league next season.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 12, 2020, 02:12:24 PM
They've had a million meetings now and come out with nothing substantial whatsoever.
Exactly, so much scrabbling around and nothing concrete has come out of this.
I am not a lawyer but it would make no sense for the FA to demand or insist on relegation (and the financial consequences for the relegated teams) from a league on some arbitrary calculation with so many games of the season left.
I think they know that what ever they do outside the norm litigation will follow. With that in mind it's a case of make it look like you're doing something until it's dragged on long enough to do what should have been done from the outset.
You'd think that would mean a 23 team league next season.
No. 2019/20 season Null and Void. 2020/21 starts when there is the all clear.
Post by: David_Nab on May 12, 2020, 02:55:51 PM
Sadiq Khan is reportedly against football/sport in general restarting in London according to the Standard.
Worried about the Liverpool fans like himself turning up
Post by: john e on May 12, 2020, 04:23:45 PM
it’s not going to negate it by them Playing at a neutral ground as they are second only to the mancs for having millions of fans/arseholes in every town in the country
I’m surrounded by reds from the north west and I’m nearly 300 miles away from the fucking wankspangles
Post by: aev on May 12, 2020, 04:38:39 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 12, 2020, 04:51:11 PM
The game changer is the FA chiming in I think. If they are serious about exercising a veto against any removal of promotion/relegation that’s that.
I’ve always felt the game’s will be played anyway, if they are I still think we’ll stay up and I think whoever gets relegated will take legal action.
I also think one of Leeds are Albion won’t get promoted if they play out their games. No doubt they’ll be pushing for PPG after lecturing everyone about ‘integrity’.
So then the FA can explain how they allowed lower leagues to end
This could include no relegation in EFL 2
How do they justify different rules when it suits them ?
Well
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-leagueclubs-could-oppose-promotion-project-restart-goes/
Post by: Villafirst on May 12, 2020, 05:14:01 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 12, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 12, 2020, 07:26:23 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-league-tell-players-play-now-risk-no-football-next-year/
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
Player turning head away to tackle in fear of corona and in turn catching the man. Ref plays on then VAR sends them off. Can literally see it now
Post by: David_Nab on May 12, 2020, 07:38:41 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-league-tell-players-play-now-risk-no-football-next-year/
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
Player turning head away to tackle in fear of corona and in turn catching the man. Ref plays on then VAR sends them off. Can literally see it now
Do GK's have to turn away when claiming a high ball in a packed box ?
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on May 12, 2020, 08:22:10 PM
Gabor Kiraly turned away from a pea-roller at Old Trafford in a cup tie once, so anything is possible.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-league-tell-players-play-now-risk-no-football-next-year/
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
Player turning head away to tackle in fear of corona and in turn catching the man. Ref plays on then VAR sends them off. Can literally see it now
Do GK's have to turn away when claiming a high ball in a packed box ?
Post by: LeeB on May 12, 2020, 09:33:07 PM
Gabor Kiraly turned away from a pea-roller at Old Trafford in a cup tie once, so anything is possible.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-league-tell-players-play-now-risk-no-football-next-year/
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
Player turning head away to tackle in fear of corona and in turn catching the man. Ref plays on then VAR sends them off. Can literally see it now
Do GK's have to turn away when claiming a high ball in a packed box ?
The angriest I've ever been at a single player wearing our colours at any one time
*I was at the Norwich game with the Hodge thing but was a bit young to get it at the time.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2020, 11:06:09 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-league-tell-players-play-now-risk-no-football-next-year/Have these twats ever actually played football?
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
Twats
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 12, 2020, 11:18:59 PM
Quote
Tackling will be banned, pitches disinfected and players restricted to groups of five when the Premier League starts a first phase of team training.
Official protocols sent to players and managers on Tuesday and obtained by the BBC reveal that social distancing must be "strictly observed".
Corner-flags, balls, cones, goalposts and even playing surfaces will be disinfected after each session.
Full article https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52635005
Post by: Steve67 on May 12, 2020, 11:20:55 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 12, 2020, 11:31:24 PM
Players have had 2 months not able to train fully
If allowed back they can only train in small groups non contact
A week before games start then they can train fully at which point it will be 3 months or so since they trained fully
Then they will be thrown into 2 games a week
Oh and physio etc after games will be restricted
It's a joke
Post by: Pete3206 on May 12, 2020, 11:35:40 PM
Post by: Des Little on May 13, 2020, 12:00:34 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 13, 2020, 12:15:57 AM
Just need to throw in a dollop of fans congregating at grounds (absolutely guaranteed), and you have the ideal recipe to call the whole thing off.
But apparently according to Johnson the whole nation will receive a massive morale boost because the footy is on again.
Post by: brentastonb6 on May 13, 2020, 01:42:50 AM
Arsenal owe the footballing world a relegation so they by right should take up one spot.You’d better put Everton in for a place too. Kicking off their last home game of the season against Wimbledon after everyone else thus knowing what was required to stay up . Also as I’m not able to say Wimbledon’s keeper Hans Segars had a unusually poor performance that day without being subject to lawsuit I’ll just have to think it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 13, 2020, 02:02:19 AM
Oh, and West Ham for the Tevez cheating.
Post by: olaftab on May 13, 2020, 03:51:32 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-league-tell-players-play-now-risk-no-football-next-year/Aha the Stewart Downing method.
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
Post by: sid1964 on May 13, 2020, 06:26:34 AM
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 13, 2020, 08:48:14 AM
turn away when tackled?, i thought most footballers did that anyway, so there will be no change for most of them!
Roy Keane perfected the art.
Post by: Mister E on May 13, 2020, 09:13:42 AM
This is the type of bullsh*t that I despair of.QuoteTackling will be banned, pitches disinfected and players restricted to groups of five when the Premier League starts a first phase of team training.
Official protocols sent to players and managers on Tuesday and obtained by the BBC reveal that social distancing must be "strictly observed".
Corner-flags, balls, cones, goalposts and even playing surfaces will be disinfected after each session.
Full article https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52635005
They're going back to train for a game I do not recognise.
Post by: Dave P on May 13, 2020, 09:17:44 AM
- Shorter games
- Neutral venues
- Points per game
- Games in Australia
- No look tackles
- Yellow cards for spitting
- 5 subs
They are getting a bit desperate now
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 13, 2020, 09:18:10 AM
Tottenham should have gone down, too, the year they did exactly the same thing that Swindon got relegated for but got away with it because... London.
Oh, and West Ham for the Tevez cheating.
I'd forgotten about the Tottenham thing. From a quick Google they were deducted 12 points, fined £600k and banned from the FA cup. Not sure what happened to the fine but on appeal the footballing punishments were rescinded.
So, Arsenal, Tottenham and West Ham down for past misdemeanours. Agreed?
Edit- fine increased to £1.5m. I'd still relegate them though.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 13, 2020, 09:25:06 AM
So far, we've had: -
- Shorter games
- Neutral venues
- Points per game
- Games in Australia
- No look tackles
- Yellow cards for spitting
- 5 subs
They are getting a bit desperate now
I’m assuming it’ll extend to removing the ball soon, after all it touches all the players on the pitch.
Post by: mallo on May 13, 2020, 09:31:09 AM
Post by: David_Nab on May 13, 2020, 10:00:06 AM
Post by: andyh on May 13, 2020, 10:05:08 AM
So far, we've had: -You missed.
- Shorter games
- Neutral venues
- Points per game
- Games in Australia
- No look tackles
- Yellow cards for spitting
- 5 subs
They are getting a bit desperate now
No celebrating goals
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 13, 2020, 10:28:10 AM
Arsenal Relegated
Aston Villa
Bournemouth
Brighton Relegated
Burnley
Chelsea Relegated
Crystal Palace
Everton Relegated
Leicester Relegated
Liverpool Relegated
Man City Relegated
Man Utd Relegated
Newcastle Relegated
Norwich
Sheff Utd
Southampton
Tottenham Relegated
Watford
West Ham Relegated
Wolves Relegated
That gives us a Premier League of 8 teams for next season.
I think everybody will agree the proposed relegations are self explanatory for each team. The only exception being you could relegate Watford instead of Brighton. I chose Brighton as I know someone personally who supports them who I dislike more than I dislike Troy Deeney.
Post by: Ian. on May 13, 2020, 10:30:34 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 13, 2020, 10:42:37 AM
How about no heading? That will minimise contact from the ball and face, actually maybe keep the ball below head height.
As I say the obvious answer is no ball....
Post by: Rory on May 13, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
How about no heading? That will minimise contact from the ball and face, actually maybe keep the ball below head height.
I like Paul's suggestion above, of removing the ball altogether. Like that scene in Mike Bassett.
Post by: David_Nab on May 13, 2020, 10:48:11 AM
How about no heading? That will minimise contact from the ball and face, actually maybe keep the ball below head height.
I like it , will sort out our issues from defending on corners !
Post by: Ian. on May 13, 2020, 10:51:04 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 13, 2020, 10:51:59 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/12/premier-league-tell-players-play-now-risk-no-football-next-year/This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. How dangerous is that?
Turn away when you are tackled FFS
If this is what they are coming out with I just can't see how anyone can possibly think this isa good idea.
I am not changing my stance here - I always felt it was reasonable for the PL to take a good look at ways to finish the season, particulaly given the potential financial consquences for not doing so on smaller clubs. Reasonable to consider it rather write it off before we knew how things would evolve. But in no way is it right to shoehorn in playing on with the huge compromises that are currently being suggested.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 13, 2020, 10:55:01 AM
Post by: andyh on May 13, 2020, 10:56:30 AM
Or two captains, a ref, obviously no hand shake, but a flip of a coin to see who wins.Both team take to the pitch in full kit.
Get into starting positions.
2 Captains and ref in middle of pitch, toss a coin, best of three with the correct call equalling a goal.
After 3 tosses, the teams change ends.
3 more tosses for the second half, to get the final result.
Then everyone one leaves the pitch (2 meters apart).
Job done.
Post by: Des Little on May 13, 2020, 10:58:57 AM
Post by: LeeB on May 13, 2020, 10:59:47 AM
At this rate, Monkey Tennis will become a thing.
Inner City Sumo works on social distancing.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 13, 2020, 11:06:13 AM
(https://cs.mg.co.za/crop/content/images/2017/01/30/footballgolf9309.jpg/800x450/)
I suggest we play our home games at Little Aston golf club.
Anybody know a pitch & putt south side of the city for SHA ?
Post by: TaxDodger on May 13, 2020, 11:15:21 AM
How about no heading? That will minimise contact from the ball and face, actually maybe keep the ball below head height.
I think we should probably do away with the ball completely.
Post by: aj2k77 on May 13, 2020, 11:19:02 AM
Post by: in exile on May 13, 2020, 11:21:10 AM
No way should it go ahead, relegation or not.
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on May 13, 2020, 11:28:37 AM
You do all know golf courses are reopening ?
(https://cs.mg.co.za/crop/content/images/2017/01/30/footballgolf9309.jpg/800x450/)
I suggest we play our home games at Little Aston golf club.
Anybody know a pitch & putt south side of the city for SHA ?
There's one in Coventry - they can do a ground share.
Post by: Chris Smith on May 13, 2020, 11:40:57 AM
You do all know golf courses are reopening ?
(https://cs.mg.co.za/crop/content/images/2017/01/30/footballgolf9309.jpg/800x450/)
I suggest we play our home games at Little Aston golf club.
Anybody know a pitch & putt south side of the city for SHA ?
Weirdly there is the Wast Hills driving range and pitch and putt right opposite their training ground.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 13, 2020, 11:45:47 AM
Quote
Promotion to the Premier League should be scrapped if Championship clubs fail to complete their season, according to Norwich’s sporting director, Stuart Webber.
Webber says bottom-placed Norwich will not accept a scenario in which they finish the campaign and are relegated, only to be replaced by a club whose season has been curtailed. Leeds and West Brom are in the Championship’s automatic promotion slots.
“What we could not accept is a situation where we play all our games and get relegated but the Championship can’t play and they automatically promote some teams who haven’t finished the season,” Webber told the Sky Sports Football Show.
“For anyone who has got promoted from the Championship, it is a 46- or 49-game slog … It needs to be settled on the pitch – both coming up and going down.”
Post by: LeeB on May 13, 2020, 12:55:44 PM
I always liked Stuart Webber. Smart man.QuotePromotion to the Premier League should be scrapped if Championship clubs fail to complete their season, according to Norwich’s sporting director, Stuart Webber.
Webber says bottom-placed Norwich will not accept a scenario in which they finish the campaign and are relegated, only to be replaced by a club whose season has been curtailed. Leeds and West Brom are in the Championship’s automatic promotion slots.
“What we could not accept is a situation where we play all our games and get relegated but the Championship can’t play and they automatically promote some teams who haven’t finished the season,” Webber told the Sky Sports Football Show.
“For anyone who has got promoted from the Championship, it is a 46- or 49-game slog … It needs to be settled on the pitch – both coming up and going down.”
Too bloody right, especially given Leeds "Champions of August" United and their repeated inability to complete the said task.
Post by: phantom limb on May 13, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on May 13, 2020, 01:36:53 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 13, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Intrigued to see what happens post EFL meetings. Seems it will probably all just die out to a damp squib
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
Got told yesterday my job role is up for redundancy so football is last thing I’m concerned about at the minute. Depending what happens I may have to give up my ST anyway and being at football seems miles away at the moment
Intrigued to see what happens post EFL meetings. Seems it will probably all just die out to a damp squib
Sorry to learn that mate. Best wishes at a difficult time.
Post by: LeeB on May 13, 2020, 01:50:04 PM
Yeah, seconded, good luck mate.Got told yesterday my job role is up for redundancy so football is last thing I’m concerned about at the minute. Depending what happens I may have to give up my ST anyway and being at football seems miles away at the moment
Intrigued to see what happens post EFL meetings. Seems it will probably all just die out to a damp squib
Sorry to learn that mate. Best wishes at a difficult time.
Post by: aev on May 13, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
Got told yesterday my job role is up for redundancy so football is last thing I’m concerned about at the minute. Depending what happens I may have to give up my ST anyway and being at football seems miles away at the moment
Intrigued to see what happens post EFL meetings. Seems it will probably all just die out to a damp squib
That is grim news. Sorry to hear that.
Post by: Rory on May 13, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Yeah, seconded, good luck mate.Got told yesterday my job role is up for redundancy so football is last thing I’m concerned about at the minute. Depending what happens I may have to give up my ST anyway and being at football seems miles away at the moment
Intrigued to see what happens post EFL meetings. Seems it will probably all just die out to a damp squib
Sorry to learn that mate. Best wishes at a difficult time.
Thirded
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 13, 2020, 02:39:17 PM
Post by: sid1964 on May 13, 2020, 02:42:11 PM
Post by: Aldridge Villa on May 13, 2020, 03:11:17 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 13, 2020, 04:18:27 PM
Quote
Duncan Wright
@dwright75
·
3m
Government guidelines for return to training make it clear any player living in household with clinically vulnerable people are NOT allowed to take part.
Means some players might not be allowed back even if they want to.
Post by: Drummond on May 13, 2020, 04:30:19 PM
QuoteDuncan Wright
@dwright75
·
3m
Government guidelines for return to training make it clear any player living in household with clinically vulnerable people are NOT allowed to take part.
Means some players might not be allowed back even if they want to.
Right, so they can play but they can't. If they do play it's not for as long as they should play but they don't have to so it doesn't matter, the game hasn't changed but it has, players must be in control of their actions at all times, except when they do the most dangerous part of the game, tackling.
They can spit but not too much (perhaps only into a bucket and they get booked if they spit over 5ml.
They can choose to play on, but can't.
Teams can be relegated for not playing all their games, or relegated for playing all of their games, and other teams can be promoted by not playing all their games.
They will play at neutral grounds, but only if they are still playing home and away.
Post by: nevillain on May 13, 2020, 04:35:09 PM
QuoteDuncan Wright
@dwright75
·
3m
Government guidelines for return to training make it clear any player living in household with clinically vulnerable people are NOT allowed to take part.
Means some players might not be allowed back even if they want to.
Right, so they can play but they can't. If they do play it's not for as long as they should play but they don't have to so it doesn't matter, the game hasn't changed but it has, players must be in control of their actions at all times, except when they do the most dangerous part of the game, tackling.
They can spit but not too much (perhaps only into a bucket and they get booked if they spit over 5ml.
They can choose to play on, but can't.
Teams can be relegated for not playing all their games, or relegated for playing all of their games, and other teams can be promoted by not playing all their games.
They will play at neutral grounds, but only if they are still playing home and away.
Ah Boris, is that you?
Post by: aj2k77 on May 13, 2020, 04:51:34 PM
QuoteDuncan Wright
@dwright75
·
3m
Government guidelines for return to training make it clear any player living in household with clinically vulnerable people are NOT allowed to take part.
Means some players might not be allowed back even if they want to.
Right, so they can play but they can't. If they do play it's not for as long as they should play but they don't have to so it doesn't matter, the game hasn't changed but it has, players must be in control of their actions at all times, except when they do the most dangerous part of the game, tackling.
They can spit but not too much (perhaps only into a bucket and they get booked if they spit over 5ml.
They can choose to play on, but can't.
Teams can be relegated for not playing all their games, or relegated for playing all of their games, and other teams can be promoted by not playing all their games.
They will play at neutral grounds, but only if they are still playing home and away.
Was that a speech by Johnson?
Arghhh, Nevillain beat me to it!
Post by: LeeB on May 13, 2020, 05:00:10 PM
QuoteDuncan Wright
@dwright75
·
3m
Government guidelines for return to training make it clear any player living in household with clinically vulnerable people are NOT allowed to take part.
Means some players might not be allowed back even if they want to.
Right, so they can play but they can't. If they do play it's not for as long as they should play but they don't have to so it doesn't matter, the game hasn't changed but it has, players must be in control of their actions at all times, except when they do the most dangerous part of the game, tackling.
They can spit but not too much (perhaps only into a bucket and they get booked if they spit over 5ml.
They can choose to play on, but can't.
Teams can be relegated for not playing all their games, or relegated for playing all of their games, and other teams can be promoted by not playing all their games.
They will play at neutral grounds, but only if they are still playing home and away.
Seems clear enough to me, play on!
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 13, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
Post by: andyh on May 13, 2020, 06:27:28 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 13, 2020, 06:29:23 PM
If this madness does result in some start of restart you would hope they would include a plan for what will happen if it all got stopped again after a few games.
Ha ha, that's a good one mate.
Post by: andyh on May 13, 2020, 06:30:24 PM
I know. As soon as I pressed the enter tit I thought, what a stupid thing to post.If this madness does result in some start of restart you would hope they would include a plan for what will happen if it all got stopped again after a few games.
Ha ha, that's a good one mate.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 13, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
Quote
The Championship is aiming to get back under way on June 6, according to reports.
EFL bosses were meeting today to thrash out when and how the league would resume, while also discussing the implementation of a wage cap.
The Mirror report that the second tier could be in action before the Premier League, which is aiming for a June 12 restart.
Leagues one and two are set to be decided on a points-per-game basis - although the play-offs are set to remain.
The EFL will take part in talks with the UK government, Premier League and Professional Footballers’ Association on Thursday to try and get the green light.
And John Percy:
Quote
@JPercyTelegraph
From Championship clubs' conference call this afternoon: 'full' training not recommended until May 25, which means a restart in early June appears highly unlikely. Clubs are arguing that it needs 3 weeks of training before players reach full fitness.
Post by: exigo on May 13, 2020, 07:49:56 PM
Integrity though, obvs.
Post by: olaftab on May 13, 2020, 08:42:48 PM
How can they now restart the Bundesliga now that cases in Germany have started to increase rapidly?They will just go around that wall.
Post by: Steve67 on May 13, 2020, 10:20:16 PM
Post by: Legion on May 13, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 13, 2020, 10:25:48 PM
Getting?
It's frickin bonkers. I am playing catch up with the news for today and just get more and more incredulous towards those running the game. Premier Division and Championship are going to play their remaining games. Which is fair enough, but how many medical staff and police officers will that pull away from their proper jobs? Life and death at stake here.
Post by: David_Nab on May 13, 2020, 11:39:41 PM
Team meetings by video conference? Christ, they are getting desperate.
Totally safe for you guys to play ..says the guy on the computer screen
Post by: sid1964 on May 14, 2020, 06:32:04 AM
We would play Sheffield Utd in our game
Post by: brian green on May 14, 2020, 07:08:47 AM
Post by: adrenachrome on May 14, 2020, 09:27:26 AM
Bumper football TV package proposed with Aston Villa's first opponents set to be Chelsea
Aston Villa, Premier League - Sky Sports will air four of the games next month, including the Friday night clash, with BT Sport showing another one. The other five are likely to be made free-to-air.
Post by: exigo on May 14, 2020, 09:55:58 AM
Linky. (https://unherd.com/2020/05/top-flight-football-is-in-league-with-the-devil/)
Post by: aev on May 14, 2020, 10:09:34 AM
Decent article in Unherd. Why top flight football is in league with the devil.
Linky. (https://unherd.com/2020/05/top-flight-football-is-in-league-with-the-devil/)
Yep good read that.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 14, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
They could do that or some clubs at least.
And then cancel premier league season but let the lower league clubs play out.
Post by: andyh on May 14, 2020, 11:32:29 AM
I wish Premier Clubs could bail out the league one and league two clubs.What ??
They could do that or some clubs at least.
And then cancel premier league season but let the lower league clubs play out.
Post by: in exile on May 14, 2020, 11:51:38 AM
Post by: andyh on May 14, 2020, 05:56:40 PM
I really don’t understand why the government are now ‘pushing’ for this.
Post by: LeeB on May 14, 2020, 06:07:14 PM
https://www.skysports.com/share/11988442
I really don’t understand why the government are now ‘pushing’ for this.
Need something to placate the masses with.
Post by: aev on May 14, 2020, 07:14:18 PM
https://www.skysports.com/share/11988442
I really don’t understand why the government are now ‘pushing’ for this.
Need something to placate the masses with.
Looks like everyone is passing on the responsibility to everyone else. Not really sure if it is new news or not, Dowden et al have made it clear for weeks they won’t stand in the way of it returning.
Post by: brian green on May 14, 2020, 07:40:57 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 14, 2020, 08:51:14 PM
https://www.skysports.com/share/11988442
I really don’t understand why the government are now ‘pushing’ for this.
I don't think they are. I think they are trying to push it back to football and don't want to be seen saying no you can't continue. I read earlier that the medical officer said that football had to show they could make non-contact/social distancing training work first before they would even consider approving the next step up in training.
At some point we will get back to normal but that is not going to be until after the winter. What few want to discuss is how do they make next season work in a way that can bring money in because they know that means abandoning this season.
Post by: Cliftonville Villlain on May 15, 2020, 12:38:03 AM
Post by: Ad@m on May 15, 2020, 12:56:09 AM
It can't happen and it mustn't happen. Infections are continuing amongst players. It's still ongoing. The season has been a dead loss but declare Liverpool champions as they have been streets ahead of everyone else, scrap relegation which, although good for us, is too close to call and even though we were truly shit at the end there, we might have escaped, and promote Leeds and Albion.
Sadly, Germany and Italy leading the way in getting their top flights back up and running, despite continuing positive cases with players, will give the Premier League all the excuse they need to start back up again.
Post by: Kimaster1976 on May 15, 2020, 07:18:05 AM
Tammy Abraham insists the Premier League should not return until it is safe to do so.
He has a concern for his and his family well being
This is exactly the sort of attitude to take . More Premier league footballers should be socially responsible stepping forward to stop this money league going on
The thing is though its not going to be truly safe to ever return until a vaccine is found and in use......that's at least a year away still.
There will only be a handful of clubs actually still in business by that point.
Whether this season restarts in June, or a new one starts in August, December, next March etc....until everyone has been vaccinated (or had the virus and become immune) the risk is going to be there, not just for players but every single person in the world.
Ask Tammy if he is OK not playing and receiving no income until then, probably not.
Post by: TelfordVilla on May 15, 2020, 08:06:39 AM
Post by: DB on May 15, 2020, 09:10:16 AM
It can't happen and it mustn't happen. Infections are continuing amongst players. It's still ongoing. The season has been a dead loss but declare Liverpool champions as they have been streets ahead of everyone else, scrap relegation which, although good for us, is too close to call and even though we were truly shit at the end there, we might have escaped, and promote Leeds and Albion.
Sadly, Germany and Italy leading the way in getting their top flights back up and running, despite continuing positive cases with players, will give the Premier League all the excuse they need to start back up again.
Yep, and with those Leagues available to watch around the world the PL will hate the fact people are watching them and no the PL. They will be pushing harder to get it started ASAP.
Post by: adrenachrome on May 15, 2020, 09:30:46 AM
Headlines:
The risks facing Premier League players are negligible – it is time to stop appeasing and play
All possible accommodation of players' concerns have been made and risk can never be truly eliminated
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2020, 09:38:46 AM
Predictable piece in the ToryGraph by Oliver Brown.
Headlines:
The risks facing Premier League players are negligible – it is time to stop appeasing and play
All possible accommodation of players' concerns have been made and risk can never be truly eliminated
The choice of language there tells you everything about the thrust of the argument.
"appeasement"
Drawing parallels between players concerned for their own and their families safety with caving in to Hitler.
Post by: David_Nab on May 15, 2020, 10:41:05 AM
It can't happen and it mustn't happen. Infections are continuing amongst players. It's still ongoing. The season has been a dead loss but declare Liverpool champions as they have been streets ahead of everyone else, scrap relegation which, although good for us, is too close to call and even though we were truly shit at the end there, we might have escaped, and promote Leeds and Albion.
Sadly, Germany and Italy leading the way in getting their top flights back up and running, despite continuing positive cases with players, will give the Premier League all the excuse they need to start back up again.
Those are the headline leagues but there are many others starting , The Korea league started and got 3.3mil viewers on Twitter so seemingly people are quite ok watching games with no fans.
I think it will restart here its just a case of when , mid to late June I would say.
Post by: aev on May 15, 2020, 10:50:25 AM
Predictable piece in the ToryGraph by Oliver Brown.
Headlines:
The risks facing Premier League players are negligible – it is time to stop appeasing and play
All possible accommodation of players' concerns have been made and risk can never be truly eliminated
The choice of language there tells you everything about the thrust of the argument.
"appeasement"
Drawing parallels between players concerned for their own and their families safety with caving in to Hitler.
The press are hilarious. They moan about the clubs at the bottom and their self interest, and yet write drivel like this. Obviously with no sport to report on, they have plenty of self interest in getting it back on asap too.
Post by: Ad@m on May 15, 2020, 11:44:18 AM
It can't happen and it mustn't happen. Infections are continuing amongst players. It's still ongoing. The season has been a dead loss but declare Liverpool champions as they have been streets ahead of everyone else, scrap relegation which, although good for us, is too close to call and even though we were truly shit at the end there, we might have escaped, and promote Leeds and Albion.
Sadly, Germany and Italy leading the way in getting their top flights back up and running, despite continuing positive cases with players, will give the Premier League all the excuse they need to start back up again.
Those are the headline leagues but there are many others starting , The Korea league started and got 3.3mil viewers on Twitter so seemingly people are quite ok watching games with no fans.
I think it will restart here its just a case of when , mid to late June I would say.
Absolutely.
The Premier League are arrogant enough to not care what the Korean league are doing. But when their "competitors" start up (ie Germany, France, Spain and Italy) then they'll see their broadcasting dominance disappearing unless they follow suit.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 15, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
Post by: Rigadon on May 15, 2020, 01:18:11 PM
https://www.skysports.com/share/11988442
I really don’t understand why the government are now ‘pushing’ for this.
It must, at least in part, be because they are trying to encourage other workers back to work. If the football is seen to be back, even behind closed doors, it helps the drive to get the economy back off its arse and sod the risks.
Then there's the fact they don't want a massive bail out bill.
Loads of reasons, all of them financial.
Post by: devilla on May 15, 2020, 02:34:03 PM
Don't think the premier league will take any notice of that although PPG is a bit worrying.
Post by: Alex77 on May 15, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
League two have agreed to cancel the rest of the season and use PPG.
Don't think the premier league will take any notice of that although PPG is a bit worrying.
I think it's relatively sensible. They have agreed on PPG in order to finalise the season. What they have yet to agree on is promotion and relegation.
Post by: Dave P on May 15, 2020, 03:04:28 PM
Post by: frank black on May 15, 2020, 03:09:59 PM
League two have agreed to cancel the rest of the season and use PPG.
Don't think the premier league will take any notice of that although PPG is a bit worrying.
I think it's relatively sensible. They have agreed on PPG in order to finalise the season. What they have yet to agree on is promotion and relegation.
Apparently no relegation...a precedent set...I know the leaks from the league meeting a few weeks ago said promotions but no relegations.
Post by: wozwebs on May 15, 2020, 04:39:17 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 15, 2020, 05:02:57 PM
Someone on twitter (freelance journalist) has said earlier that John McGinn won't play any part if we do come back as he has asthma and is in the at risk category.
If it's the one I've just seen retweeted, the account's been around since March 2020. For someone with hardly any Twitter presence, I'd be astounded if he had the kind of sources he claims to.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on May 15, 2020, 05:17:38 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2020, 05:35:47 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 15, 2020, 05:40:55 PM
Someone on twitter (freelance journalist) has said earlier that John McGinn won't play any part if we do come back as he has asthma and is in the at risk category.
If it's the one I've just seen retweeted, the account's been around since March 2020. For someone with hardly any Twitter presence, I'd be astounded if he had the kind of sources he claims to.
Have a look at his other tweets. File under 'fantasist'.
Post by: wozwebs on May 15, 2020, 05:43:11 PM
Post by: Damo70 on May 15, 2020, 05:44:25 PM
Someone on twitter (freelance journalist) has said earlier that John McGinn won't play any part if we do come back as he has asthma and is in the at risk category.
If it's the one I've just seen retweeted, the account's been around since March 2020. For someone with hardly any Twitter presence, I'd be astounded if he had the kind of sources he claims to.
Have a look at his other tweets. File under 'fantasist'.
Bloody freelance journalists ;)
Post by: levico on May 15, 2020, 05:55:13 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 15, 2020, 06:03:19 PM
League two have agreed to cancel the rest of the season and use PPG.
Don't think the premier league will take any notice of that although PPG is a bit worrying.
I think it's relatively sensible. They have agreed on PPG in order to finalise the season. What they have yet to agree on is promotion and relegation.
Apparently no relegation...a precedent set...I know the leaks from the league meeting a few weeks ago said promotions but no relegations.
FA has to ratify which leaves them in a pickle
They said there had to be relegation a few days ago and now they have a league voting they don't want it ..
If they go with league then every other league can raise same argument so Monday will be interesting.
Post by: Dave P on May 15, 2020, 06:06:12 PM
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 15, 2020, 06:11:24 PM
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on May 15, 2020, 06:17:02 PM
The Government has been pushing for people to get back to work and children to get back to school with no concern for the consequences. Why would they care about "greedy" footballers?https://www.skysports.com/share/11988442
I really don’t understand why the government are now ‘pushing’ for this.
Need something to placate the masses with.
Post by: Mister E on May 15, 2020, 06:46:03 PM
My medical knowledge is sketchy to say the least but I couldn’t imagine any player capable of covering the ground that McGinn does match after match could possibly suffer from asthma.It's perfectly possible if managed properly. It depends what it is that sets his asthma off.
Post by: aev on May 15, 2020, 06:46:07 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
They now pushing for games on BBC. Fob off the masses and distract them from the ongoing cluster fuck.
Normally you'd think that it was a bit far fetched, but no, with this lot it's as base as that.
Post by: Legion on May 15, 2020, 07:00:47 PM
Hopefully. As with Twitter 90% of it shite.
Only 90%?
Post by: saunders_heroes on May 15, 2020, 07:33:12 PM
My medical knowledge is sketchy to say the least but I couldn’t imagine any player capable of covering the ground that McGinn does match after match could possibly suffer from asthma.It's perfectly possible if managed properly. It depends what it is that sets his asthma off.
Ive had asthma all my life but for the last 10 years or so its been completely under control (and to be honest I thought I was no longer asthmatic), and the fitter you are the less it affects you (in my experience anyway). I had the coronavirus back in March (though I wasn’t tested my doctor said I more thank likely had it) and was rough for around 3 weeks, though I’m fine again now my asthma is back with a vengeance ever since and I have to keep my blue inhaler close by. Something I haven’t had to do in years. I think McGinn is right to be concerned.
Post by: curiousorange on May 15, 2020, 07:34:40 PM
Post by: Simon Page on May 15, 2020, 07:38:07 PM
Quote
A regional mayor has been told football clubs face "an enormous amount of work" before being able to re-start matches at their home grounds.
West Midlands Mayor Andy Street said he would prefer to see Premier League matches played at home stadiums, rather than neutral venues, but acknowledged the prospect of even behind closed doors fixtures was "a very long way away."
The Chief Constable of the West Midlands, Dave Thompson, told a meeting of the area's combined authority he had yet to see concrete proposals on resuming the football season.
Mr Thompson told the meeting, held via videolink: "Clearly this is a huge area of public interest. People are at home, they would like to see sport - we understand all that.
"But it is a complex issue. We can't do things that are going to create health issues.
"And of course it's not just playing games behind closed doors. It's the fact people want to congregate. We may have some very important fixtures that take place affecting either relegations or promotions in this region."
Pointing out that Germany's Bundesliga had to consider issues over and above the safety of players and club staff, Mr Thompson said: "I think there is quite a lot to do before we could say that we are in a position to be safe from a public health perspective.
"From a broader public safety perspective, we'd need to understand the arrangements in some detail.
"It feels to me there is still quite a lot of work to do before we could say we are in a position to begin the season again."
Responding to the senior officer's comments, Mr Street said: "I would of course like to see both the Villa and Wolves being able to play with their home advantage, even behind closed doors.
"But I have to say, just like the Chief Constable, we seem to be a very long way away from being able to navigate that.
"I was talking to the owner of another of our clubs, Coventry City, just two days ago. And straight from the owner's mouth - there is an enormous amount of work to do to be ready to get to that point.
"Personally I think what we are much more likely to see is actually a neutral ground solution first and then moving to a closed doors situation, probably at the beginning of the new season.
"And then even when we do begin to open the stadiums, it will probably not be to full capacity.
"I stand behind what the chief constable says - a lot of people with a lot of expertise need to do a lot of planning yet I'm afraid."
Post by: DB on May 15, 2020, 07:44:35 PM
Post by: saunders_heroes on May 15, 2020, 07:48:54 PM
Belgium league has now finished. Brugge declared Champions.
Any relegation?
Post by: LukeJames on May 15, 2020, 07:53:41 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on May 15, 2020, 07:54:17 PM
Belgium league has now finished. Brugge declared Champions.
Any relegation?
Yes
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 15, 2020, 08:47:53 PM
They now pushing for games on BBC. Fob off the masses and distract them from the ongoing cluster fuck.How do they then settle the 800 million they owe other Broadcasters?
Post by: cdward on May 15, 2020, 08:55:20 PM
"If I feel that I'm not looking after my family, then I'm not going to do it. I am not going to put my family at risk.
"What are they going to do, take money off me? I've been broke before so it doesn't bother me."
Post by: David_Nab on May 15, 2020, 09:10:39 PM
They now pushing for games on BBC. Fob off the masses and distract them from the ongoing cluster fuck.How do they then settle the 800 million they owe other Broadcasters?
Monday the teams are to ask the Prem league why even if they do play the remaining games they stand to lose around half the remaining TV cash.
Post by: TonyD on May 15, 2020, 09:22:36 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 15, 2020, 09:43:20 PM
They now pushing for games on BBC. Fob off the masses and distract them from the ongoing cluster fuck.How do they then settle the 800 million they owe other Broadcasters?
Monday the teams are to ask the Prem league why even if they do play the remaining games they stand to lose around half the remaining TV cash.
Is this something to do with the television schedule being compromised and therefore they have not stuck to the pre-arranged schedule? People abroad have not been served as promised by the broadcaster?
Post by: Steamin_330 on May 15, 2020, 09:58:30 PM
Belgium league has now finished. Brugge declared Champions.
Any relegation?
Yes
Wassland-Beveren relegated. Going into the final game Wassland on 20pts or Kv Oostende 22pts could go down
Wassland were at home to second placed KAA
Gent (Gent needed to win to finish 2nd).
Kv Oostende were away to Cercle Bruges 1pt above them
Post by: David_Nab on May 15, 2020, 10:00:42 PM
They now pushing for games on BBC. Fob off the masses and distract them from the ongoing cluster fuck.How do they then settle the 800 million they owe other Broadcasters?
Monday the teams are to ask the Prem league why even if they do play the remaining games they stand to lose around half the remaining TV cash.
Is this something to do with the television schedule being compromised and therefore they have not stuck to the pre-arranged schedule? People abroad have not been served as promised by the broadcaster?
Only the PL know , the PL told the clubs the figure in last meeting they now want to know the breakdown.So for us down the bottom there is already a hole in budget by playing and risk of relegation
Post by: Gareth on May 15, 2020, 10:34:24 PM
Post by: john e on May 15, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
My medical knowledge is sketchy to say the least but I couldn’t imagine any player capable of covering the ground that McGinn does match after match could possibly suffer from asthma.It's perfectly possible if managed properly. It depends what it is that sets his asthma off.
Ive had asthma all my life but for the last 10 years or so its been completely under control (and to be honest I thought I was no longer asthmatic), and the fitter you are the less it affects you (in my experience anyway). I had the coronavirus back in March (though I wasn’t tested my doctor said I more thank likely had it) and was rough for around 3 weeks, though I’m fine again now my asthma is back with a vengeance ever since and I have to keep my blue inhaler close by. Something I haven’t had to do in years. I think McGinn is right to be concerned.
very interesting to read that because I’ve had exactly the same experience with my asthma since recovering from the virus
Post by: Rory on May 16, 2020, 12:33:39 AM
If you take the pubs & clubs out of the equation I wonder how many subscribers that sky sports / bt have? Any BS about how bringing back football will be good for the nations morale only works if all games are FTA...which obv won’t happen as we all know that the only reason they are trying to get going is to save the sky/bt cash
I have Sky Sports but only for the cricket. With Villa, I either have to be there, or I follow the match thread on H&V and then watch the highlights if we do okay.
I just cannot tolerate listening to the narrative being defined by some biased wankers who base their idea of which clubs deserve attention on a calculation of the worth of their owners and the number of London journos who support them.
Same reason I don't listen to Talksport, watch Final Score or whatever that stroke-inducing equivalent Sky have.
For me, Sky and BT can fuck off. Their main contribution to the game, as far as I can tell, is that any pub you go into, no matter where it is, will contain at least one ****** in a 2008/09 Manchester United shirt.
No thanks. Having your attention divided between how your club do vs how 'the Sky big clubs' do is for Albion fans.
"Cor, did yow say tha Salah gowerl? Smashin, ay it? Iss a joy to say im play in the Premyar Loyge, bess in th'wurl."
"Oh fuck off."
They're welcome to it.
Post by: Rory on May 16, 2020, 12:39:12 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 16, 2020, 12:43:18 AM
For me, Sky and BT can fuck off. Their main contribution to the game, as far as I can tell, is that any pub you go into, no matter where it is, will contain at least one c*** in a 2008/09 Manchester United shirt.
Quote of the millennium.
Post by: olaftab on May 16, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Post by: Rory on May 16, 2020, 01:21:12 AM
Post by: eamonn on May 16, 2020, 01:29:12 AM
Post by: Rory on May 16, 2020, 01:37:51 AM
Were Yanited good in 08/09? I can't remember. 98/99 yes...bloody Yorke...18/19 shite.
Wasn't 08/09 when they won the treble?
My whole life is an expanse of those bastards beating us in improbable ways and winning trophies, so I may have that wrong.
Post by: DB on May 16, 2020, 02:30:58 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on May 16, 2020, 05:12:02 AM
If you take the pubs & clubs out of the equation I wonder how many subscribers that sky sports / bt have? Any BS about how bringing back football will be good for the nations morale only works if all games are FTA...which obv won’t happen as we all know that the only reason they are trying to get going is to save the sky/bt cash
I have Sky Sports but only for the cricket. With Villa, I either have to be there, or I follow the match thread on H&V and then watch the highlights if we do okay.
I just cannot tolerate listening to the narrative being defined by some biased wankers who base their idea of which clubs deserve attention on a calculation of the worth of their owners and the number of London journos who support them.
Same reason I don't listen to Talksport, watch Final Score or whatever that stroke-inducing equivalent Sky have.
For me, Sky and BT can fuck off. Their main contribution to the game, as far as I can tell, is that any pub you go into, no matter where it is, will contain at least one c*** in a 2008/09 Manchester United shirt.
No thanks. Having your attention divided between how your club do vs how 'the Sky big clubs' do is for Albion fans.
"Cor, did yow say tha Salah gowerl? Smashin, ay it? Iss a joy to say im play in the Premyar Loyge, bess in th'wurl."
"Oh fuck off."
They're welcome to it.
Great rant, and spot on.
Post by: Villafirst on May 16, 2020, 07:45:35 AM
Post by: brian green on May 16, 2020, 07:59:44 AM
Post by: frank black on May 16, 2020, 08:57:36 AM
Post by: Mister E on May 16, 2020, 09:04:16 AM
Each case is unique. I've had it all my life and this year I've never felt healthier. But then, I don't think I've had CV-19.My medical knowledge is sketchy to say the least but I couldn’t imagine any player capable of covering the ground that McGinn does match after match could possibly suffer from asthma.It's perfectly possible if managed properly. It depends what it is that sets his asthma off.
Ive had asthma all my life but for the last 10 years or so its been completely under control (and to be honest I thought I was no longer asthmatic), and the fitter you are the less it affects you (in my experience anyway). I had the coronavirus back in March (though I wasn’t tested my doctor said I more thank likely had it) and was rough for around 3 weeks, though I’m fine again now my asthma is back with a vengeance ever since and I have to keep my blue inhaler close by. Something I haven’t had to do in years. I think McGinn is right to be concerned.
Glad to hear you recovered, SH; sorry to hear the asthma is back.
Post by: Mister E on May 16, 2020, 09:07:35 AM
Would that 1 point that we should've got against Spurs be enough to survive if it goes to PPG? Will Engels terrible last minute error prove to be really crucial?CP away was also a clear point stolen.
Post by: PeterWithe on May 16, 2020, 09:11:31 AM
Sorry, I lost my way there! I just hate the 'product' that football has become. As if it's a fucking Disney film, there to shift lunchboxes, cheap replica kits and bedsheets.
Love that, I’m going to steal that
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on May 16, 2020, 10:30:23 AM
I assume Sheffield United, Arsenal or Citeh. UTV.
Post by: Legion on May 16, 2020, 10:34:57 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on May 16, 2020, 10:39:46 AM
Sheffield United.
Thanks. I see a win for them would secure 5th, so they would be seriously motivated.
Post by: john e on May 16, 2020, 10:51:45 AM
Sheffield United.
Thanks. I see a win for them would secure 5th, so they would be seriously motivated.
They've had an incredible season so far
they were my favourites to go down at the start, I thought they would finish adrift at the bottom
Post by: Dave P on May 16, 2020, 11:57:59 AM
Sheffield United.
Thanks. I see a win for them would secure 5th, so they would be seriously motivated.
Even if they were 3-0 up with 9 minutes to go, I wouldn’t back us to lose.
Post by: David_Nab on May 16, 2020, 02:45:07 PM
Sheffield United.
Thanks. I see a win for them would secure 5th, so they would be seriously motivated.
They've had an incredible season so far
they were my favourites to go down at the start, I thought they would finish adrift at the bottom
I thought they would struggle to score , which they have to a degree but they are rock solid at the back.It's the major difference between us/Norwich and them , Norwich and us are awful in defence
Watching the Dortmund game , subs wear masks and sit 2 mtrs apart - whats the point haven't they all been tested.Lack of fans made worse by size of stadium just a echo chamber
Post by: curiousorange on May 16, 2020, 04:18:07 PM
Just please get to operation restart, get our game in hand won and then shut the god damn thing down!
This is about where I'm at with it. I think it'll be extremely unlikely that there won't be another stoppage when/if it starts again, simply because I don't believe there won't be another catastrophic rise in the infection rate. Smith might get two games to get us above that line and we've got to take that chance.
Post by: eamonn on May 16, 2020, 04:22:39 PM
Sheffield United.
Thanks. I see a win for them would secure 5th, so they would be seriously motivated.
Even if they were 3-0 up with 9 minutes to go, I wouldn’t back us to lose.
Zing!
Andre Green's brightest, most beautiful moment. What a fucking header...just thinking about it now has made me miss football for the first time since Covid.
Post by: Legion on May 16, 2020, 04:41:21 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 16, 2020, 04:46:55 PM
Post by: AV82EC on May 16, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
Post by: Rory on May 16, 2020, 05:33:35 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 16, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
I stayed to the end and just couldn’t believe what I was witnessing. Quite amazing.
I didn't. I sodded off after 72 minutes.
No need to thank me!
Post by: Rory on May 16, 2020, 11:10:55 PM
I stayed to the end and just couldn’t believe what I was witnessing. Quite amazing.
I didn't. I sodded off after 72 minutes.
No need to thank me!
You weren't alone. I was in the Lower Holte and there weren't many left around me. Felt like a full house when the third went in, though!
Post by: Ad@m on May 16, 2020, 11:43:59 PM
I stayed to the end and just couldn’t believe what I was witnessing. Quite amazing.
I didn't. I sodded off after 72 minutes.
No need to thank me!
You weren't alone. I was in the Lower Holte and there weren't many left around me. Felt like a full house when the third went in, though!
I bet. Sounded great on the radio in the car.
*Grrrrrr*
Post by: Dave P on May 17, 2020, 08:16:45 AM
Post by: Steve67 on May 17, 2020, 09:07:29 AM
Post by: themossman on May 17, 2020, 10:41:02 AM
Post by: eamonn on May 17, 2020, 01:30:12 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 17, 2020, 02:07:22 PM
I’d find it hilarious if a side that thinks it’s safe gets dragged into bottom 3
Post by: Dick Edwards on May 17, 2020, 02:33:45 PM
IF the season does re start it will see many freak results. Tons of players won’t be fit and sides that do have minimal to play for could spring some weird results. Hopefully for us it means Newcastle, Palace, Everton, Arsenal and maybe even wolves gives us more opportunity.
I’d find it hilarious if a side that thinks it’s safe gets dragged into bottom 3
I think this is a distinct possibility. We're far from doomed if there is a restart. Regardless of who finishes in the bottom three I think it will be unfair to the relegated teams, even more so if they promote from the Championship without them finishing their season.
Post by: olaftab on May 17, 2020, 02:49:54 PM
Following the German games and playing behind closed doors, Schalke Head Coach, David Wagner's comments about missing the energy of the fans is a good point, particularly for our fans, under the lights at VP. I just hope that the players have the energy on the pitch for what will be a sprint and not a marathon of ten games. The 'not celebrating together' is a complete load of bollocks though because the points gained or lost for any of the bottom six will be precious.Watching his team yesterday Mr Wagner should be more worried about the lack of energy in his team.
Post by: themossman on May 17, 2020, 03:44:14 PM
Not sure it necessarily helps us, as all the teams at the bottom should have kept themselves sharper. West Ham strike me as the team that will be hurt by this as their little run of better performance now counts for nothing and they have an old squad with more than their share of players who I can imagine not training much without someone shouting at them.
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2020, 04:55:55 PM
Lacking in that causes 2 main problems, the first is slightly slower reaction speeds and the main consequence is late tackles, I suspect there'll be lots of yellow cards for that. It will be interesting to see how referees handle this because the whole atmosphere, with the empty stadiums, will be very different.
The 2nd is around lateral movement in the knees and ankles, this is the bigger problem and is where we could see injuries, this is the real value of pre-season where you're only playing at 80-90% and can ease into the sharper turns and steps that will come in the league games. This one is why so many players have setbacks after long injuries because they're trying to play or even train on the same level as everyone else and the resilience in the joints just isn't there.
Post by: john e on May 17, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
another plus point is Mike Bassett England Manager is on tonight 10.30 ITV
Post by: Mister E on May 17, 2020, 06:30:06 PM
You can't replicate match sharpness in a gym and by the sounds of it the training clubs are allowed to do won't help massively with that either.Injuries is my concern - not just for the Villa - exacerbated bythe crazy advice about turning away from a tackle. Player wellbeing potentially being sacrificed for the sake of a league resumption.
Lacking in that causes 2 main problems, the first is slightly slower reaction speeds and the main consequence is late tackles, I suspect there'll be lots of yellow cards for that. It will be interesting to see how referees handle this because the whole atmosphere, with the empty stadiums, will be very different.
The 2nd is around lateral movement in the knees and ankles, this is the bigger problem and is where we could see injuries, this is the real value of pre-season where you're only playing at 80-90% and can ease into the sharper turns and steps that will come in the league games. This one is why so many players have setbacks after long injuries because they're trying to play or even train on the same level as everyone else and the resilience in the joints just isn't there.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 17, 2020, 06:42:16 PM
I think every game our opponents have something to play for,
Post by: Steve67 on May 17, 2020, 07:44:27 PM
I am sure some one has analyzed how difficult the run in is based on the opposition.
I think every game our opponents have something to play for,
And we still have the same players and the same manager.
Post by: David_Nab on May 17, 2020, 08:31:38 PM
I am sure some one has analyzed how difficult the run in is based on the opposition.
I think every game our opponents have something to play for,
Palace / Newcastle pretty safe not much to play for
Liverpool won league , already lost unbeaten record so zero to play for
Post by: themossman on May 17, 2020, 08:59:09 PM
I think we would have beaten the barcodes anyway so palace looks like best chance of ‘extra’ points.
Post by: David_Nab on May 17, 2020, 09:54:10 PM
I came up with the same 3 and eliminated Liverpool because it’s Liverpool.
I think we would have beaten the barcodes anyway so palace looks like best chance of ‘extra’ points.
With Liverpool its a case of what team he picks, you need 5 apps to get a league winners medal so will Klopp rotate to get players a medal ?
The Wolves game with no home backing is a real kicking as that would have helped
Palace / Newcastle need 6 points
Rest hard to call
Post by: exigo on May 17, 2020, 10:11:15 PM
Clubs have been carrying out coronavirus testing this weekend to ensure there is no further delay, but a number of players - including Newcastle United defender Danny Rose and Watford skipper Troy Deeney - have expressed concerns about returning.
If Deeney doesn't fancy it, that'll help us.
Post by: nigel on May 17, 2020, 10:12:08 PM
IF the season does re start it will see many freak results. Tons of players won’t be fit and sides that do have minimal to play for could spring some weird results. Hopefully for us it means Newcastle, Palace, Everton, Arsenal and maybe even wolves gives us more opportunity.
I’d find it hilarious if a side that thinks it’s safe gets dragged into bottom 3
I think this is a distinct possibility. We're far from doomed if there is a restart. Regardless of who finishes in the bottom three I think it will be unfair to the relegated teams, even more so if they promote from the Championship without them finishing their season.
If PL finish the season and the championship doesn't then the PL should just refuse to accept their top two
Post by: Legion on May 17, 2020, 10:12:45 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 17, 2020, 10:25:03 PM
The problem being they are planning to be back this week but in small groups and only move to full training a week before the season starts.He is worried about injuries.
Post by: OzVilla on May 17, 2020, 10:30:08 PM
Leeds and Albion fans behave like they’ve got a 25 point lead too. I can see the Bitters faltering a bit as they’ve been presumptively promoted already by their fans.
Post by: David_Nab on May 17, 2020, 10:39:14 PM
If we are being expected to play out the season in full and earn our place in the PL then the Championship should too. Anything less they should be told isn’t going to be good enough.
Leeds and Albion fans behave like they’ve got a 25 point lead too. I can see the Bitters faltering a bit as they’ve been presumptively promoted already by their fans.
Leeds collapsing again would be funny their fans have acted like right muppets during this , they are obsessed with getting teams relegated
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 17, 2020, 10:47:52 PM
Leeds collapsing again would be funny their fans have acted like right muppets during this , they are obsessed with us getting relegated.
Fixed.
Post by: sid1964 on May 18, 2020, 05:55:53 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 18, 2020, 09:14:59 AM
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on May 18, 2020, 12:29:40 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2020, 12:58:27 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 18, 2020, 01:09:38 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2020, 01:10:57 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 18, 2020, 01:12:54 PM
Post by: Hookeysmith on May 18, 2020, 01:24:35 PM
100% true
The night of the game I was in my Heartlands hospital bed recovering from an operation following a heart attack the previous day. My wife paid to have the game on the overhead TV thingy they have @ £20 per day.
at 0-3 I was ready to roll over and fall back to sleep. Come added time you can imagine my blood pressure went sky high and the muted yelp I let out when Green headed in the equaliser had a nurse run in from the next door ward.
She gave me a glaring look, turned the tv off and suggested for my own sake I calmed down and went to sleep. I said what had happened but it fell on deaf ears
Bloody Villa could have been the end of me
Post by: Rory on May 18, 2020, 01:28:59 PM
The media would love that, and with the uncertainty out of the way, could continue to spend the foreseeable future desperately trying to flog our players.
'With Jack Grealish's 'dream' move to Old Trafford seemingly completed, here's a selection of mock-ups showing John McGinn in a range of socks representing European giants he COULD be playing for next season: United, City, Spurs, Toon, West Ham, Milan, Barca, Madrid, PSG? Tell us YOUR favourite!'
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 18, 2020, 01:30:41 PM
Post by: AV82EC on May 18, 2020, 01:31:09 PM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Hibbee barstewards...😜
Post by: David_Nab on May 18, 2020, 01:44:05 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2020, 02:04:15 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
Post by: devilla on May 18, 2020, 02:27:39 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
But we have a game in hand which Hearts don't so it will be more difficult to relegate us. Hopefully.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2020, 02:29:34 PM
Yes, but they state they have adopted points per game. I just hope we have a legal case if necessary.Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
But we have a game in hand which Hearts don't so it will be more difficult to relegate us. Hopefully.
Post by: aev on May 18, 2020, 02:29:41 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
But we have a game in hand which Hearts don't so it will be more difficult to relegate us. Hopefully.
Mind you the Dutch haven't relegated anyone, and they speak better English than the Scots.
Post by: David_Nab on May 18, 2020, 02:41:08 PM
Teams have agreed to return to training tomorrow in small groups , so I would think its likely to rekick off especially as German seemed to have got through the first set of games ok and had good viewing audiences globally.
Post by: aev on May 18, 2020, 02:48:16 PM
Hibs and the French clubs relegated all taking legal action , this is why the PL wants to play as well to avoid 3 teams taking them to court.
Teams have agreed to return to training tomorrow in small groups , so I would think its likely to rekick off especially as German seemed to have got through the first set of games ok and had good viewing audiences globally.
I read the agreement today was always going to pass, it is stage 2 that will be tricky. That said, I think it will happen as well.
Post by: Richard E on May 18, 2020, 02:54:16 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
But we have a game in hand which Hearts don't so it will be more difficult to relegate us. Hopefully.
Mind you the Dutch haven't relegated anyone, and they speak better English than the Scots.
The Dutch speak better English than the English!
Post by: Gareth on May 18, 2020, 03:09:23 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
It’s the same as the decisions lower down the leagues in England, owners don’t have the £’s/$’s/€’s to fight it legally....we do & no doubt will do if they impose a rule change at this point.
PL Games will finish, Championship will also have to finish if they want to promote anyone....which again is 100% how it should be.
Post by: Hillbilly on May 18, 2020, 03:10:59 PM
Ah...
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 18, 2020, 03:11:45 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
The big difference between us and Hearts is that our owners have deep pockets. Hearts are skint. Protracted litigation with us and two other clubs wouldn't be the outcome the league wants.
Post by: Dave P on May 18, 2020, 04:56:31 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
League 2 in England not relegating anyone is a better and more relevant precedent for us.
Post by: Villafirst on May 18, 2020, 04:59:52 PM
Post by: frank black on May 18, 2020, 05:07:14 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
League 2 in England not relegating anyone is a better and more relevant precedent for us.
Sadly I don’t see that due to the Bury situation. If we do not get to restart we will be relegated.
Post by: Richard on May 18, 2020, 05:16:15 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
League 2 in England not relegating anyone is a better and more relevant precedent for us.
Sadly I don’t see that due to the Bury situation. If we do not get to restart we will be relegated.
Not if the Championship doesn't start either
Post by: Villafirst on May 18, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
League 2 in England not relegating anyone is a better and more relevant precedent for us.
Sadly I don’t see that due to the Bury situation. If we do not get to restart we will be relegated.
What about our game in hand? It would be a tad unfair to be relegated for playing at Wembley??
Post by: frank black on May 18, 2020, 05:27:25 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
League 2 in England not relegating anyone is a better and more relevant precedent for us.
Sadly I don’t see that due to the Bury situation. If we do not get to restart we will be relegated.
What about our game in hand? It would be a tad unfair to be relegated for playing at Wembley??
If project restart doesn’t happen they will have to draw the line somewhere and we will be gone.
Post by: Villafirst on May 18, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
Then the fun will start in court! We can afford the best Lawyers in town...Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
League 2 in England not relegating anyone is a better and more relevant precedent for us.
Sadly I don’t see that due to the Bury situation. If we do not get to restart we will be relegated.
What about our game in hand? It would be a tad unfair to be relegated for playing at Wembley??
If project restart doesn’t happen they will have to draw the line somewhere and we will be gone.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2020, 05:56:30 PM
For me it's hard to justify relegating teams who hadn't earned relegation over a full season and replace them with teams who havent earned propotion over a full season. But I think that's what they'll try to do.
Losing our once in a generation player because of that would be so tough to take. But I guess Leeds fans will be saying the same thing about Kalvin Phillips.
Post by: Villan82 on May 18, 2020, 05:58:05 PM
Post by: aev on May 18, 2020, 06:01:35 PM
Post by: frank black on May 18, 2020, 06:25:14 PM
I don’t think they will relegate us on PPG if the season doesn’t restart.
I absolutely expect it, why wouldn’t you. The other divisions will go down that route.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2020, 06:41:23 PM
Post by: aev on May 18, 2020, 06:51:46 PM
I don’t think they will relegate us on PPG if the season doesn’t restart.
I absolutely expect it, why wouldn’t you. The other divisions will go down that route.
For all sorts of reasons, but litigation from 3 clubs would be the main one.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2020, 07:01:37 PM
No guarantee that Litigation will be successful, I think the PL would win based on the information available.I don’t think they will relegate us on PPG if the season doesn’t restart.
I absolutely expect it, why wouldn’t you. The other divisions will go down that route.
For all sorts of reasons, but litigation from 3 clubs would be the main one.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 18, 2020, 07:03:19 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 18, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Scotland have ended their seasonThats a terrible precedent for us.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/11990125/celtic-crowned-scottish-premiership-champions-and-hearts-relegated-as-spfl-end-season
League 2 in England not relegating anyone is a better and more relevant precedent for us.
Sadly I don’t see that due to the Bury situation. If we do not get to restart we will be relegated.
What about our game in hand? It would be a tad unfair to be relegated for playing at Wembley??
We wouldn't though. We'd be going down for losing more games than every other team in the division, except for the only one below us, despite playing a game less.
I won't be happy if we go down, but we can't blame anyone else if we do. We just haven't been good enough.
Post by: aev on May 18, 2020, 08:07:20 PM
I think litigation would be successful, it’s just how much of a deterrent it is.
I think if the season can’t restart they will just promote from the Championship and have no relegation.
The FA would be pragmatic, I think their gripe is the PL has to try and restart rather than pick up their golden ball and say the season has to be voided.
Post by: Steve67 on May 18, 2020, 08:10:31 PM
I think litigation would be successful, it’s just how much of a deterrent it is.
Reputationally, we'd be accused of being sore losers. Best to play the games and win our way to safety. I cant see that happening either to be fair. Once we agree to play behind closed doors, we lose the gravitas of our argument. PPG gives us a better argument. I reckon we'll play the games come what may.
Post by: steamer on May 18, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
This break has maybe misted our memories, but our performances prior to it were dreadful
If we play the outstanding games we have a chance of redemption, probably more so with the return of some players, but if we go down it is on the back of some woeful performances and poor decision making earlier in the season.
So come on Aston Villa , grab the mantle and stay up.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2020, 08:30:38 PM
I think litigation would be successful, it’s just how much of a deterrent it is.Based on what exactly?
Post by: Steve67 on May 18, 2020, 08:32:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 18, 2020, 08:36:36 PM
I think litigation would be successful, it’s just how much of a deterrent it is.Based on what exactly?
it would be hard to argue that a team who had played less games, less home games than all their rivals hadn’t been materially and disproportionately impacted by a unilateral decision to use PPG.
Post by: Legion on May 18, 2020, 08:37:29 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2020, 08:52:09 PM
First of all are you advocating that the Club attempt to stop the PL starting next season or proceeding with the vote with an injunction?I think litigation would be successful, it’s just how much of a deterrent it is.Based on what exactly?
it would be hard to argue that a team who had played less games, less home games than all their rivals hadn’t been materially and disproportionately impacted by a unilateral decision to use PPG.
If we were successful in the injunctive application which would only last until such time as a full court process or until the PL gets the injunction lifted, are you aware of the Financial implications of succeeding with an injunction and then failing subsequently?
We signed up to the PL Governance Rules which allow them to form a committee and change the rules.
They are likely to argue that their contractual obligations to the EFL teams are greater than those to the teams they relegate.
The other and most likely option is the Club sue the PL for damages which IL be heard at a later date and possibly some time after next season has started.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2020, 08:57:06 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
Post by: Damo70 on May 18, 2020, 08:58:57 PM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Why the dislike of Hearts? I had a soft spot for them when they not only wore similar colours to us but were also sponsored by Mita Copiers. I was disappointed when they blew the title on the last day that year. 1986?
Post by: Legion on May 18, 2020, 08:59:31 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
It's not a level playing field, though. We have a game in hand where if we win it, it would take us out of the bottom three. Plus Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 18, 2020, 09:25:21 PM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Why the dislike of Hearts? I had a soft spot for them when they not only wore similar colours to us but were also sponsored by Mita Copiers. I was disappointed when they blew the title on the last day that year. 1986?
Albert Kidd Day, May 3rd, there's highlights of the game on Youtube which are worth a watch.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36186819
Prefer Hibs but find it hard to dislike Hearts for the same illogical reasons. Similar colours (often a nice dark shade of maroon) and founded in 1874 plus a great name.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 18, 2020, 09:33:31 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
It's not a level playing field, though. We have a game in hand where if we win it, it would take us out of the bottom three. Plus Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
It's also not a level playing field playing behind closed doors without your home fans. So if it does all start up in June without fans present we are immediately disadvantaged.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 18, 2020, 09:39:24 PM
First of all are you advocating that the Club attempt to stop the PL starting next season or proceeding with the vote with an injunction?I think litigation would be successful, it’s just how much of a deterrent it is.Based on what exactly?
it would be hard to argue that a team who had played less games, less home games than all their rivals hadn’t been materially and disproportionately impacted by a unilateral decision to use PPG.
If we were successful in the injunctive application which would only last until such time as a full court process or until the PL gets the injunction lifted, are you aware of the Financial implications of succeeding with an injunction and then failing subsequently?
We signed up to the PL Governance Rules which allow them to form a committee and change the rules.
They are likely to argue that their contractual obligations to the EFL teams are greater than those to the teams they relegate.
The other and most likely option is the Club sue the PL for damages which IL be heard at a later date and possibly some time after next season has started.
I’m not suggesting legal action would involve stopping the league progressing. I would imagine we’d pursue damages for loss of earnings.
Post by: amfy on May 18, 2020, 09:40:51 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
It's not a level playing field, though. We have a game in hand where if we win it, it would take us out of the bottom three. Plus Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
It's also not a level playing field playing behind closed doors without your home fans. So if it does all start up in June without fans present we are immediately disadvantaged.
Everyone will be playing at home without their fans, and everyone will be playing away without there being home fans - so I think it’s an easier argument that would be a level playing field. You can even argue that it would be more level because it removes the advantage of larger (or louder) fan bases.
Judging us on one less home game WITH fans than everyone else isn’t level.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2020, 09:51:43 PM
The PL will have to make a decision and the least egregious decision legally may well be PPG.
Post by: frank black on May 18, 2020, 10:03:33 PM
Of course we can argue about fairness just like other parties will if it goes against them.
The PL will have to make a decision and the least egregious decision legally may well be PPG.
Yes I believe so we are either relegated or taking part in the ultimate man against Virus battle that is project restart. When sport can show the world and the virus that we will never be defeated. We will fight it in the care homes, on the tube, the train and the buses. We will never surrender... god I hate Sky sports!
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 18, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
It's not a level playing field, though. We have a game in hand where if we win it, it would take us out of the bottom three. Plus Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
It's also not a level playing field playing behind closed doors without your home fans. So if it does all start up in June without fans present we are immediately disadvantaged.
Everyone will be playing at home without their fans, and everyone will be playing away without there being home fans - so I think it’s an easier argument that would be a level playing field. You can even argue that it would be more level because it removes the advantage of larger (or louder) fan bases.
Judging us on one less home game WITH fans than everyone else isn’t level.
No, we're still disadvantaged. In the fixtures, off the top of my head....Chelsea, Palace and Sheff U we lost each game. The home team had their fans present we won't be able to have ours when we're at home to play these teams. So for those corresponding fixtures we are disadvantaged. It's the same as if we were told to play the games behind closed doors as a punishment. I know you'll say it's the same for everybody but it really isn't.
Post by: David_Nab on May 18, 2020, 10:12:15 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
It's not a level playing field, though. We have a game in hand where if we win it, it would take us out of the bottom three. Plus Watford 3 Liverpool 0.
It's also not a level playing field playing behind closed doors without your home fans. So if it does all start up in June without fans present we are immediately disadvantaged.
Everyone will be playing at home without their fans, and everyone will be playing away without there being home fans - so I think it’s an easier argument that would be a level playing field. You can even argue that it would be more level because it removes the advantage of larger (or louder) fan bases.
Judging us on one less home game WITH fans than everyone else isn’t level.
No, we're still disadvantaged. In the fixtures, off the top of my head....Chelsea, Palace and Sheff U we lost each game. The home team had their fans present we won't be able to have ours when we're at home to play these teams. So for those corresponding fixtures we are disadvantaged. It's the same as if we were told to play the games behind closed doors as a punishment. I know you'll say it's the same for everybody but it really isn't.
That's the problem , people go along with well there is no home/away for these games so no one has an advantage except as you explain thats not how it works.We played teams away who had fans now we play them with none.
Anyway it looks like its going ahead now unless we have a spike in cases so need to focus on getting the points needed to escape the drop
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2020, 10:22:54 PM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Why the dislike of Hearts? I had a soft spot for them when they not only wore similar colours to us but were also sponsored by Mita Copiers. I was disappointed when they blew the title on the last day that year. 1986?
I spent my teenage years in Edinburgh. Hearts draw their support from the west of the city and the surrounding former mining towns and villages. There's a (admittedly homeopathic) whiff of the Orange Order/Masons about them. Hibs fans are from Leith, which is, essentially, rock n' roll.
Post by: Villan82 on May 18, 2020, 10:36:43 PM
Post by: Rory on May 18, 2020, 11:37:22 PM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Why the dislike of Hearts? I had a soft spot for them when they not only wore similar colours to us but were also sponsored by Mita Copiers. I was disappointed when they blew the title on the last day that year. 1986?
I spent my teenage years in Edinburgh. Hearts draw their support from the west of the city and the surrounding former mining towns and villages. There's a (admittedly homeopathic) whiff of the Orange Order/Masons about them. Hibs fans are from Leith, which is, essentially, rock n' roll.
Nicely put, but I'm ashamed to say that I prefer Hibs/Celtic to Hearts/Rangers purely because ofmy Irish heritage and family allegiances. I dont pretend to understand the nuances.
As for Villa, I think a huge amount of the frustration lies in the fact we should've done better, not only in our performances but also all of those last minute mistakes and freaks of fortune. I have always said that, all things being equal, these things balance out over a season and nobody is unlucky over 19 home games and 19 away games. The difficulty for me is, that's not what we're getting.
When your aim is survival and every little fluke, mistake or bounce of the ball can make the difference, you can't just change the conditions with over a quarter of the season left. Particularly not for a pair of shithouse nothing clubs who think they have done enough to be promoted by the end of August every single year.
Having said that, I believe we're staying up. We have the pedigree, we have the motivation, and this is where we belong.
Looking back, it actually took a huge amount of effort to get relegated in the end. Short of buying Titus Bramble and Lee Bowyer and hiring Mick McCarthy as manager, there's not much more we could've done over the previous five years to earn that relegation.
Five years of utter shit, chaos and circling the drain is what it took to see us off last time, plus the stench of death, clueless purchases and a potless owner with shit shoes that saw us take three years to get back.
We belong in the top division. Lots of clubs say this, but only three or four in the country have a claim to their place above us
I'm confident we'll be okay, no matter how injuries, circumstances and VAR conspire against us.
However the season ends, we will be okay.
UTV
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 18, 2020, 11:57:28 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on May 19, 2020, 12:11:04 AM
Post by: Rory on May 19, 2020, 12:15:02 AM
Think you're being a bit harsh on Mick McCarthy. Far worse managers out there and could have easily have reached a World Cup quarter final to face South Korea.
Oh don't, I was gutted. It was bad enough supporting England in a school full of glory-hunting Brazil supporters. That Duff shot wide, after that run. I was convinced that was going to be a goal Argh.
Okay, swap McCarthy for...Iain Dowie.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2020, 12:28:44 AM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Why the dislike of Hearts? I had a soft spot for them when they not only wore similar colours to us but were also sponsored by Mita Copiers. I was disappointed when they blew the title on the last day that year. 1986?
I spent my teenage years in Edinburgh. Hearts draw their support from the west of the city and the surrounding former mining towns and villages. There's a (admittedly homeopathic) whiff of the Orange Order/Masons about them. Hibs fans are from Leith, which is, essentially, rock n' roll.
Nicely put, but I'm ashamed to say that I prefer Hibs/Celtic to Hearts/Rangers purely because ofmy Irish heritage and family allegiances. I dont pretend to understand the nuances.
Oh, mate, I have exactly the same prejudices, it's just that I didn't want to admit it!
Post by: Rory on May 19, 2020, 12:35:30 AM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Why the dislike of Hearts? I had a soft spot for them when they not only wore similar colours to us but were also sponsored by Mita Copiers. I was disappointed when they blew the title on the last day that year. 1986?
I spent my teenage years in Edinburgh. Hearts draw their support from the west of the city and the surrounding former mining towns and villages. There's a (admittedly homeopathic) whiff of the Orange Order/Masons about them. Hibs fans are from Leith, which is, essentially, rock n' roll.
Nicely put, but I'm ashamed to say that I prefer Hibs/Celtic to Hearts/Rangers purely because ofmy Irish heritage and family allegiances. I dont pretend to understand the nuances.
Oh, mate, I have exactly the same prejudices, it's just that I didn't want to admit it!
When it comes to Glasgow and Edinburgh, I think 90% of people who support those clubs do so for exactly the same reason. For my family, it's not a protestant/catholic thing (my family is from Munster and is a mixture) it's just an Irish immigrant solidarity thing.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2020, 12:37:55 AM
Post by: Rory on May 19, 2020, 12:46:21 AM
Similarly, my parents were/are atheists but I went to Catholic schools. Like Judaism, it's a cultural thing that goes way beyond religion.
Absolutely. My parents are from catholic backgrounds but thankfully chose to allow me to make my own choices. I am not religious (though I am engaged to a protestant and have respect for people's beliefs) and for me, it is entirely cultural.
The most daunting experience of my life was visiting Ibrox (beautiful ground) on a non-match day, and the reaction I got was scary. It was as if the locals could see right through me. I was spat at on the street by old ladies.
No doubt it is the same the other way around, but that was enough for me. If just walking past Ibrox and looking the way I do was enough to make people spit at me, it was clear that the decision was made for me!
Anyway, sorry to go off-topic. Back to Villa and how we are definitely going to stay up.
(Spoiler: we are)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2020, 01:04:07 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 19, 2020, 02:07:46 AM
So although we are certainly the most disadvantaged clubs in respect of having the most amount of homes games left I also think the timing of the suspension suited us more than any other club in the bottom 8. Lets face it, we were in absolute free fall while a few teams were starting to get their act together. Also Jack was looking really tired (physically and mentally) , defensively we were still a shambles and McGinn was still not back.
Now they've all had a rest and an opportunity to re-group and personally analyse where they're at, that includes the management team too. They badly needed this time. Jack has had a rest and McGinn will start on a par with everyone else fitness wise.
So im looking at it as a glass half full scenario. If we play out the 38 and we aren't good enough then that's fair enough so long as the Championship do the same cant see we'd have any real complaints.
Personally i'm more confident now we'll stay up than I was post Leicester.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 19, 2020, 08:16:47 AM
The most daunting experience of my life was visiting Ibrox (beautiful ground) on a non-match day, and the reaction I got was scary. It was as if the locals could see right through me. I was spat at on the street by old ladies.
Probably shouldn't have worn your Bobby Sands t-shirt and Republic of Ireland scarf. ;)
Mom was from a mixed background in Northern Ireland but I'd have the same allegiances as you and SE. However I know two Glaswegian lads (1st cousins) whose 2 families are all Celtic but they support Rangers as they grew up in the 90s when Rangers were in the ascendancy. You can imagine their parents' disappointment. :)
Post by: LeeB on May 19, 2020, 08:19:38 AM
Yeah, take that you Jambo c**ts!
Why the dislike of Hearts? I had a soft spot for them when they not only wore similar colours to us but were also sponsored by Mita Copiers. I was disappointed when they blew the title on the last day that year. 1986?
I spent my teenage years in Edinburgh. Hearts draw their support from the west of the city and the surrounding former mining towns and villages. There's a (admittedly homeopathic) whiff of the Orange Order/Masons about them. Hibs fans are from Leith, which is, essentially, rock n' roll.
Nicely put, but I'm ashamed to say that I prefer Hibs/Celtic to Hearts/Rangers purely because ofmy Irish heritage and family allegiances. I dont pretend to understand the nuances.
Oh, mate, I have exactly the same prejudices, it's just that I didn't want to admit it!
It's nothing more than that for me also.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 19, 2020, 08:43:17 AM
Well this is going to be played now regardless.Agreed. Southampton and Leicester were horror shows. McGinn was our major hope but I thought we were likley to go down at that point.
So although we are certainly the most disadvantaged clubs in respect of having the most amount of homes games left I also think the timing of the suspension suited us more than any other club in the bottom 8. Lets face it, we were in absolute free fall while a few teams were starting to get their act together. Also Jack was looking really tired (physically and mentally) , defensively we were still a shambles and McGinn was still not back.
Now they've all had a rest and an opportunity to re-group and personally analyse where they're at, that includes the management team too. They badly needed this time. Jack has had a rest and McGinn will start on a par with everyone else fitness wise.
So im looking at it as a glass half full scenario. If we play out the 38 and we aren't good enough then that's fair enough so long as the Championship do the same cant see we'd have any real complaints.
Personally i'm more confident now we'll stay up than I was post Leicester.
Post by: Mister E on May 19, 2020, 09:27:47 AM
McGinn may be one of the Villa players who will not risk his health by playing, if - as has been suggested on here - he is asthmatic.Well this is going to be played now regardless.Agreed. Southampton and Leicester were horror shows. McGinn was our major hope but I thought we were likley to go down at that point.
So although we are certainly the most disadvantaged clubs in respect of having the most amount of homes games left I also think the timing of the suspension suited us more than any other club in the bottom 8. Lets face it, we were in absolute free fall while a few teams were starting to get their act together. Also Jack was looking really tired (physically and mentally) , defensively we were still a shambles and McGinn was still not back.
Now they've all had a rest and an opportunity to re-group and personally analyse where they're at, that includes the management team too. They badly needed this time. Jack has had a rest and McGinn will start on a par with everyone else fitness wise.
So im looking at it as a glass half full scenario. If we play out the 38 and we aren't good enough then that's fair enough so long as the Championship do the same cant see we'd have any real complaints.
Personally i'm more confident now we'll stay up than I was post Leicester.
Our staying-up depends almost entirely on whether Smith has managed to increase players' fitness and intensity levels and improve their flagging motivation, somewhat evidnet at Leicester.
Post by: Big Ming on May 19, 2020, 09:37:40 AM
Post by: algy on May 19, 2020, 09:57:38 AM
It was your scab-free knuckles that will have done it. Don't go there again.Completely off topic, but ...
I went to uni with a lad who was a Rangers fan, from Lanarkshire. We got on well, but I tended to keep conversations away from politics as the few times it came up ... his views were different to mine. Anyway, I mind once we'd been out disco dancing in Edinburgh, and were walking back down Princes St. Started chatting away to this lad who we'd met as we were walking back, and it came out he was from Northern Ireland.
Rangers Fan: "So ... are you proddy or catholic?"
Northern Irish Lad: "I'm not in to that sort of thing"
RF: "Aye, but which are you?"
NIL: "Look, I don't do the whole bigotry thing. It's not for me."
RF: "Naw naw, I'm not a bigot. I don't care what the dirty tims get up to."
I was ... astounded.
Post by: DB on May 19, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Similarly, my parents were/are atheists but I went to Catholic schools. Like Judaism, it's a cultural thing that goes way beyond religion.
Absolutely. My parents are from catholic backgrounds but thankfully chose to allow me to make my own choices. I am not religious (though I am engaged to a protestant and have respect for people's beliefs) and for me, it is entirely cultural.
The most daunting experience of my life was visiting Ibrox (beautiful ground) on a non-match day, and the reaction I got was scary. It was as if the locals could see right through me. I was spat at on the street by old ladies.
No doubt it is the same the other way around, but that was enough for me. If just walking past Ibrox and looking the way I do was enough to make people spit at me, it was clear that the decision was made for me!
Anyway, sorry to go off-topic. Back to Villa and how we are definitely going to stay up.
(Spoiler: we are)
West side of Scotland is stuck 300 years behind when it comes to religion. I spent a lot of time up there in the early 2000's and it was hilarious and a bit scary the way they see each other, most of whom only go to church for a wedding. Anyway, as you say, back on topic...
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2020, 12:02:59 PM
We seemed in free fall, after the Leicester game, rumors were that Smith had Chelsea at home tO save his job.
We had put in some shocking performances Southampton Bournemouth and even when we did play well Spurs we managed to lose.
I still have doubts the season will get completed but I thought we were on our way down as teams around us seemed to be getting some form back.
This is a long way of saying I think we have a better chance of surviving this complete nonsense of playing the season out than we did 2 months ago.
Post by: trinityoap on May 19, 2020, 12:12:16 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2020, 12:24:27 PM
Check the song Hearts of Glory by Craig Herbertson on You Tube.Possibly the best song written about a football club.The story of McCrae's Battalion is worth looking up.Just did that, great song.
Post by: David_Nab on May 19, 2020, 12:28:29 PM
Back on topic yes please ( apparently Catholics and Protestants don’t like each other particularly in city’s with bad weather).
We seemed in free fall, after the Leicester game, rumors were that Smith had Chelsea at home tO save his job.
We had put in some shocking performances Southampton Bournemouth and even when we did play well Spurs we managed to lose.
I still have doubts the season will get completed but I thought we were on our way down as teams around us seemed to be getting some form back.
This is a long way of saying I think we have a better chance of surviving this complete nonsense of playing the season out than we did 2 months ago.
Chelsea game , gave us a 2 week break to make a change.Very tough call to do it now with so much football in short space of time and who would come in .Like you say though take out a spirted FH against Spurs and some part of the cup final and we had been awful for weeks.
We are 20th in stats for every type of defensive stat shots conceded , clean sheets , goals from set pieces , goals conceded from headers etc it's poor coaching
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 19, 2020, 12:35:27 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 19, 2020, 12:41:38 PM
Does make me wonder whether there'll be any managerial changes if/when season starts again. It's not unheard of for teams to roll the dice with a handful of games to go. Or will the pandemic and the unusual circumstances give managers of underperforming teams a free pass I wonder.
Think it's only us likely to change
Watford /West Ham already changed
Farke safe at Norwich
Potter and Howe think the clubs will stick for now
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 19, 2020, 02:10:58 PM
Check the song Hearts of Glory by Craig Herbertson on You Tube.Possibly the best song written about a football club.The story of McCrae's Battalion is worth looking up.
That would be Celtic Symphony for me although agree the story behind McCrae's Battalion is well worth reading about.
Post by: paul_e on May 19, 2020, 03:44:25 PM
No, we're still disadvantaged. In the fixtures, off the top of my head....Chelsea, Palace and Sheff U we lost each game. The home team had their fans present we won't be able to have ours when we're at home to play these teams. So for those corresponding fixtures we are disadvantaged. It's the same as if we were told to play the games behind closed doors as a punishment. I know you'll say it's the same for everybody but it really isn't.
Palace is the particularly important one because it involved one of the worst refereeing decisions I've ever seen and it's pretty clear that the crowd had an impact on making the ref react as he did because they'd been booing and whistling every time Jack got fouled all game.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on May 19, 2020, 04:10:36 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 19, 2020, 04:16:48 PM
Check the song Hearts of Glory by Craig Herbertson on You Tube.Possibly the best song written about a football club.The story of McCrae's Battalion is worth looking up.
That would be Celtic Symphony for me although agree the story behind McCrae's Battalion is well worth reading about.
Nothing in football will ever beat Hibs fans singing 'Sunshine on Leith' have just beat Rangers 3-2 with a last minute winner in the 2016 Scottish Cup Final.
There are better videos of this but this one features SJM.
Post by: mr underhill on May 19, 2020, 04:31:58 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2020, 04:34:33 PM
Check the song Hearts of Glory by Craig Herbertson on You Tube.Possibly the best song written about a football club.The story of McCrae's Battalion is worth looking up.
That would be Celtic Symphony for me although agree the story behind McCrae's Battalion is well worth reading about.
Nothing in football will ever beat Hibs fans singing 'Sunshine on Leith' have just beat Rangers 3-2 with a last minute winner in the 2016 Scottish Cup Final.
There are better videos of this but this one features SJM.
Agreed.
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 19, 2020, 04:34:35 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 19, 2020, 04:37:27 PM
Check the song Hearts of Glory by Craig Herbertson on You Tube.Possibly the best song written about a football club.The story of McCrae's Battalion is worth looking up.
That would be Celtic Symphony for me although agree the story behind McCrae's Battalion is well worth reading about.
Nothing in football will ever beat Hibs fans singing 'Sunshine on Leith' have just beat Rangers 3-2 with a last minute winner in the 2016 Scottish Cup Final.
That was magical after such a wait but I was referring specifically to songs written about football clubs. Still, a great song, shame the film's shite.
Post by: CT on May 19, 2020, 04:38:05 PM
six positives - football isn't going to be starting anytime soon. How many others did these players come into contact with? i wonder if any broke lockdown rules!
The part that worries me was that in Germany, they just isolated the ones who were positive. Everyone else just carried on. So if say, two were our players, we'd be two short for the next two weeks.
Even Jamie Carragher said this morning that people shouldn't "get hysterical" over any positive test results.
Post by: LeeB on May 19, 2020, 04:45:49 PM
Check the song Hearts of Glory by Craig Herbertson on You Tube.Possibly the best song written about a football club.The story of McCrae's Battalion is worth looking up.
That would be Celtic Symphony for me although agree the story behind McCrae's Battalion is well worth reading about.
Nothing in football will ever beat Hibs fans singing 'Sunshine on Leith' have just beat Rangers 3-2 with a last minute winner in the 2016 Scottish Cup Final.
There are better videos of this but this one features SJM.
Agreed.
Yes, absolutely.
Post by: LeeB on May 19, 2020, 04:48:47 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 19, 2020, 04:52:20 PM
I wonder what the FA have in mind, for a “ that’s an ok number of positives, we continue “
The Korean Baseball League has just started. However, if there's just one positive test for a player or coach, they'll shut down for three weeks.
It'll be interesting to see what attitude the FA take
Post by: UK Redsox on May 19, 2020, 04:54:39 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52721397
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 19, 2020, 04:55:26 PM
Post by: DB on May 19, 2020, 05:20:13 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 19, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
If so, my guess is they'll press on.
Post by: johnc on May 19, 2020, 05:32:27 PM
Have these players been isolated from eachother?They havent said if they are players or not. They are testing backroom staff as well
If so, my guess is they'll press on.
Post by: Des Little on May 19, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on May 19, 2020, 06:20:05 PM
six positives - football isn't going to be starting anytime soon. How many others did these players come into contact with? i wonder if any broke lockdown rules!
I really think it will. 6 cases means nothing to them. They'll point to a thousand and whatever negative results. They must get the show on the road.
Post by: David_Nab on May 19, 2020, 06:40:26 PM
EFL meeting tomorrow to ratify L2 ending / rest restarting.
Post by: Ads on May 19, 2020, 08:36:14 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
What's your litigation experience?
Post by: eamonn on May 19, 2020, 08:48:51 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2020, 09:12:01 PM
Our game in hand could prove to be a pivotal factor.I don’t think it will, the court will decide if the process the PL used under the circumstances is reasonable, I know we think it’s completely unreasonable but that is not a Legal Reasonable.
What's your litigation experience?
I'd be interested to know what you think our chances would be if it went to court (no side or snide attached to the question from my perspective!)?
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 19, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
six positives - football isn't going to be starting anytime soon. How many others did these players come into contact with? i wonder if any broke lockdown rules!
I really think it will. 6 cases means nothing to them. They'll point to a thousand and whatever negative results. They must get the show on the road.
This is only the first round, next couple of days will show more, Ian Woan, Burnley, tested positive and a couple of players in the squad have reported feeling strange.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 19, 2020, 09:48:29 PM
Post by: Ads on May 19, 2020, 09:53:06 PM
Yet principally we're a minority shareholder in a body corporate, so rights derive from the Companies Act 06 too to fill in blanks.
I'm not sure if we could stop it under any legal mechanism. That doesn't mean I don't think there are no prospects, simply I'm not convinced by a single argument and truth be told I've not sat down and thought in any great detail about one!
On balance I think there likely is cause of action and Its the losses that I think could be scary for the league, as quantifying damages would be in the hundreds of millions, far beyond anything the league would be indemnified for.
Legal costs would be significant as frankly, what would we as Claimants have to lose? What would the League? Well, their existence potentially.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2020, 10:22:05 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 19, 2020, 11:10:38 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 19, 2020, 11:14:17 PM
I'm hampered by a couple of things and chief among those is not knowing the current league rules in any detail, which would be the framework used the relegate us.
Yet principally we're a minority shareholder in a body corporate, so rights derive from the Companies Act 06 too to fill in blanks.
I'm not sure if we could stop it under any legal mechanism. That doesn't mean I don't think there are no prospects, simply I'm not convinced by a single argument and truth be told I've not sat down and thought in any great detail about one!
On balance I think there likely is cause of action and Its the losses that I think could be scary for the league, as quantifying damages would be in the hundreds of millions, far beyond anything the league would be indemnified for.
Legal costs would be significant as frankly, what would we as Claimants have to lose? What would the League? Well, their existence potentially.
Do the clubs (shareholders) have the powers under the agreement/constitution to vote to relegate clubs of their choosing by amending the rules. As any way of deciding on relegation has a predetermined answer.
Post by: Ads on May 19, 2020, 11:34:34 PM
Ta
There's spelling and grammar issues there, with a double negative. To clarify I'm not saying there is no cause of action or no prospects, I was dipping in and out of the post so mumped up the English.
Ordinary rules require 75% majority to pass a special resolution. I've seen 70% knocking about, so presumably 14 teams are required for a normal resolution.
My gut feeling is that relegation would have severe consequences for the league and that the threats are empty. Whatever comes out of Pandoras Box can never be put back in. The law of unexpected consequences is something difficult to mitigate against. So why risk it?
Post by: Drummond on May 20, 2020, 10:18:46 AM
Their proposal for Reconstruction is an interesting one that was denied first time but they have revisited with a suggestion of litigation if it's not agreed. I think a similar approach here would be right. i.e. that the league increases in size, promotion happens but no relegation. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
The Hearts fans are desperate for the club to fight their corner. There are still rumblings about Dundee's change of heart/vote of course.
All I know is that I'd rather not be the person making the decisions, though I wouldn't mind their money.
Post by: mallo on May 20, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 20, 2020, 12:50:53 PM
I'm following the Hearts situation closely at the minute.
Their proposal for Reconstruction is an interesting one that was denied first time but they have revisited with a suggestion of litigation if it's not agreed. I think a similar approach here would be right. i.e. that the league increases in size, promotion happens but no relegation. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
The Hearts fans are desperate for the club to fight their corner. There are still rumblings about Dundee's change of heart/vote of course.
All I know is that I'd rather not be the person making the decisions, though I wouldn't mind their money.
I think the difference is that the Scottish league has a history of tinkering with the format which isn't present in England, save for changing numbers of teams in divisions very occasionally. Also I assume the reconstruction is planned as a long term plan rather than just for one season. The sticking point with the promoting Leeds and West Brom solution, leaving aside the fact neither of the fuckers merit it while the season is incomplete, is how do you promote teams from League 1 where it is far less clearcut?
I have been mulling this matter over for weeks and while I think it is ludicrous we could be relegated without the season being over, I do understand other teams saying it is ludicrous their efforts so far this season are for nought. Put it this way, if Tottenham got in the CL ahead of Leicester off the back of this many people would say that is demonstrably unfair. That is how other clubs, paticularly at the top of the Champ, view us getting another crack at the PL. I don't agree with them when we're the ones who'll suffer which is down to my bias more than anything else. As you say, difficult decision for someone to make.
Post by: exigo on May 20, 2020, 01:45:29 PM
...save for changing numbers of teams in divisions very occasionally.
So, we do have a history of doing exactly what's being talked about. Namely, it wouldn't be that hard to go to 22 teams for a season or two.
Post by: brentastonb6 on May 20, 2020, 02:10:24 PM
The four of us need to play our game in hand difference I would have thought before any idea of any points per game scenario having any / more credibility should the season be curtailed. Likewise I’d have thought that the remaining ten rounds would need to be be played on a same day same time basis in case of any further Lockdown. Unfortunately I know that would fly in the face of TV broadcasters who would love the usual array of fixture days & times ?
I’m just getting more concerned with every passing day that every club other than the current bottom three would have nothing to lose by sending us down on PPG 🤔🤔
Post by: London Villan on May 20, 2020, 02:13:47 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 20, 2020, 02:43:53 PM
Games could also be played during the working day too.
I get the reasoning but no way the paymasters will agree to that.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 20, 2020, 04:51:16 PM
...save for changing numbers of teams in divisions very occasionally.
So, we do have a history of doing exactly what's being talked about. Namely, it wouldn't be that hard to go to 22 teams for a season or two.
In Scottish football there is relatively recent precedent for no teams getting relegated in the name of league reorganisation. That hasn't happened in England since 1905.
I understand the logic behind people saying Leeds and West Brom have a cushion so promote them but every team from 3rd down to 12th (maybe even lower) would have a case they've been denied a fair crack at promotion through the playoffs. It gets even more complicated lower down where leagues are tighter. Haven't League 2 said they're promoting four teams? How does that work with no relegation? Is anyone coming up from National League? They've already stopped the season I think so how will that be decided. I just can't see promotion happening without relegation.
Post by: olaftab on May 20, 2020, 04:51:20 PM
According to someone I know at the FA it has been decided to restart, with all games played at neutral venues. And the venues have been chosen with the plan being clubs play the games nowhere near their main fan base in the hope it stops fans congregating outside grounds. Man Utd will be playing all their games at Old Trafford.And that's how it should be. Rules are rules.
Post by: Legion on May 20, 2020, 04:55:07 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 20, 2020, 04:55:09 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 20, 2020, 04:55:42 PM
Errr... it's a joke...I think I got that.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2020, 05:23:50 PM
It then impacts negatively on the EFL, no PL clubs being relegated reduces their revenue significantly...save for changing numbers of teams in divisions very occasionally.
So, we do have a history of doing exactly what's being talked about. Namely, it wouldn't be that hard to go to 22 teams for a season or two.
Post by: olaftab on May 20, 2020, 05:25:24 PM
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 20, 2020, 05:52:59 PM
Do we know anymore about the 6 people who tested positive yesterday? Players? Staff? Clubs? etcOne from Burnley. Ian Woan assistant manager.
Three from Watford one being a player and the other two unknown at present.
Post by: eamonn on May 20, 2020, 06:38:15 PM
Post by: Hillbilly on May 21, 2020, 03:00:51 AM
To which the response would be blah blah too many games blah blah England european championship blah blah Uefa coefficient blah blah...save for changing numbers of teams in divisions very occasionally.
So, we do have a history of doing exactly what's being talked about. Namely, it wouldn't be that hard to go to 22 teams for a season or two.
Post by: aev on May 21, 2020, 07:59:04 AM
It is really is anything to distract the masses from the ongoing grimness of the situation.
Post by: sid1964 on May 21, 2020, 08:54:34 AM
Post by: andyh on May 21, 2020, 09:26:34 AM
It is pretty funny that one of the conditions of project restart is the Gov't are very keen on getting some games free to air.It’s a strange one, isn’t it?
It is really is anything to distract the masses from the ongoing grimness of the situation.
How exactly does making games free to air square with the fact that watching live premier league football is essentially a subscription service already paid for by the people who want it, and the suppliers (clubs) and broadcasters already have agreements in place?
Are the government planning on ‘investing’ in these costs and giving money to Clubs/Sky/BT in order to get games on TV?
And what about us mugs who have already paid for a ‘service’ that hasn’t been delivered And could now potentially been given away to everyone, for free !
Post by: Dave P on May 21, 2020, 11:22:13 AM
With Watford in disarray - it is a shame that we are not playing them in our remaining games - I can see them being relegated
Watford will finish 17th under PPG so I can see their agenda for forcing a curtailment to the season. Not that they can force positive results but you know what I mean.
Post by: OCD on May 21, 2020, 11:37:28 AM
That said, I can't see there being a lasting interest in glorified training sessions. I think there's a bit of an issue with one TV deal about to end and another about to start but if that wasn't the case, my bet would be that the broadcasters would be saying this isn't the product that we paid out for...we would rather wait until it's safe for fans to be able to return to grounds.
Post by: aev on May 21, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
If the government do want some free-to air games, there will be plenty of games that would ordinarily happen without being aired. I only see it being a problem if they wanted big games that Sky/BT are wetting themselves about showing. With no possibility of fans being able to attend, ALL games should be aired one way or another.
That said, I can't see there being a lasting interest in glorified training sessions. I think there's a bit of an issue with one TV deal about to end and another about to start but if that wasn't the case, my bet would be that the broadcasters would be saying this isn't the product that we paid out for...we would rather wait until it's safe for fans to be able to return to grounds.
Presumably BT and SKY will be willing to continue waiving the monthly subscriptions if the BBC et al will be showing some football?
It is possible that I will get to watch as many free Villa games as I will see on BT/SKY.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 21, 2020, 12:28:15 PM
Those discussions are well underway.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 21, 2020, 12:38:15 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 21, 2020, 01:07:11 PM
To those that know/did, what did that 'pause' thing on Sky Sports involve? Was there a set time limit on it or anything like that? Will it be back up to full price as soon as a ball is in danger of being kicked?
Do not worry Lastfootstamper.
Sky:
"While we expect that many of the recently postponed sports events will eventually go ahead, if you wish to pause your sports subscription in the meantime you will not be charged a fee to do so or be held to any notice period."
I hope this alieveate any concerns and gives less worry at this time.
All the best and up the villa.
Post by: Drummond on May 21, 2020, 01:58:14 PM
We can confirm which players have been back at small group training from the gallery so anyone who has the full low down on any who didn't go training.
Grealish , Mings , Reina , Targett , Douglas ,Konsa , Elmo , Jota were at training as shown from Official Gallery and reports .
Lansbury and Samatta don't see them there ?
Lazy layabouts.
Post by: Drummond on May 21, 2020, 01:58:59 PM
To those that know/did, what did that 'pause' thing on Sky Sports involve? Was there a set time limit on it or anything like that? Will it be back up to full price as soon as a ball is in danger of being kicked?
Do not worry Lastfootstamper.
Sky:
"While we expect that many of the recently postponed sports events will eventually go ahead, if you wish to pause your sports subscription in the meantime you will not be charged a fee to do so or be held to any notice period."
I hope this alieveate any concerns and gives less worry at this time.
All the best and up the villa.
That was about cancelling or pausing. Nothing to do with it restarting.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 21, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
Final table will be decided by an unweighted ppg system.
Post by: Dave P on May 21, 2020, 02:21:20 PM
EFL. Promotion and relegation to remain if season is curtailed.
Final table will be decided by an unweighted ppg system.
Bad news that is for us
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 21, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
To those that know/did, what did that 'pause' thing on Sky Sports involve? Was there a set time limit on it or anything like that? Will it be back up to full price as soon as a ball is in danger of being kicked?
Do not worry Lastfootstamper.
Sky:
"While we expect that many of the recently postponed sports events will eventually go ahead, if you wish to pause your sports subscription in the meantime you will not be charged a fee to do so or be held to any notice period."
I hope this alieveate any concerns and gives less worry at this time.
All the best and up the villa.
That was about cancelling or pausing. Nothing to do with it restarting.
I was only trying to help.
My thought process would be that once the football gets underway the full subscription is back though I get will it be a case that have to re activates oneself for that I don't know so sorry about that one there.
Hopefully be some communication as and when .
Best of luck with that
I never suspended the sky personally as have an existing deal so was only being a good Samaritan , some one on the Matty Targett thread accused me of being negative which was really upsetting especially in crass comments about Samaritan helplines.
I'm only here for good measures and own thoughts.
Hope your sky thing is resolved.
Up the villa.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 21, 2020, 02:31:15 PM
EFL. Promotion and relegation to remain if season is curtailed.
Final table will be decided by an unweighted ppg system.
So a team that are always top in March and then bottle it could get promoted based on their position in March? What a load of old shite.
Post by: aev on May 21, 2020, 02:36:04 PM
I'd still be astounded if a decision was made with almost a quarter of a season to play to relegate teams from the richest league in the world on a vote.
Post by: curiousorange on May 21, 2020, 02:37:44 PM
Looking at it in a "positive" way, perhaps it just puts the case forward for 3 to be promoted from the Championship.
I'd still be astounded if a decision was made with almost a quarter of a season to play to relegate teams from the richest league in the world on a vote.
I don't think I've seen anything which gives us much hope they'll be sensible about it. We go down, and spent half a year fighting it in court. We'll be back in the Premier League before we get compensation for being relegated from it.
Post by: David_Nab on May 21, 2020, 02:50:21 PM
Also they keep play offs so if your near bottom you go down on unweighted PPG but if your in Play off place they will fund those games so you can be promoted , seems very off.
L2 still probably won't relegate as the statements says that relegation is based on national league playing next season , currently with no fans that season it's going to restart
Post by: aev on May 21, 2020, 02:59:31 PM
Relegating teams who haven't had the opportunity to play the season in its entirety is shite.
Clubs could go bust because of this.
Post by: curiousorange on May 21, 2020, 02:59:33 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 21, 2020, 03:11:28 PM
Looking at it in a "positive" way, perhaps it just puts the case forward for 3 to be promoted from the Championship.
I'd still be astounded if a decision was made with almost a quarter of a season to play to relegate teams from the richest league in the world on a vote.
They already have in France, Scotland, Belgium and elsewhere. I haven't seen a single top flight which has just voided relegation this year, it just seems wishful thinking to assume that England would be the one exception.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 21, 2020, 03:14:08 PM
Post by: aev on May 21, 2020, 03:16:09 PM
Looking at it in a "positive" way, perhaps it just puts the case forward for 3 to be promoted from the Championship.
I'd still be astounded if a decision was made with almost a quarter of a season to play to relegate teams from the richest league in the world on a vote.
They already have in France, Scotland, Belgium and elsewhere. I haven't seen a single top flight which has just voided relegation this year, it just seems wishful thinking to assume that England would be the one exception.
I think the Dutch league did.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 21, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Post by: aev on May 21, 2020, 03:45:17 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 21, 2020, 03:56:24 PM
So I'm all for the restart. Come on you Lions.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 21, 2020, 04:01:08 PM
Well it looks like we could be stuffed if it's voided. At the least it would be very uncertain.
So I'm all for the restart. Come on you Lions.
Assuming that they can prevent a further spread of the virus, that's where I am. Any other scenario under consideration fucks us.
Post by: curiousorange on May 21, 2020, 04:26:18 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2020, 04:44:22 PM
To those that know/did, what did that 'pause' thing on Sky Sports involve? Was there a set time limit on it or anything like that? Will it be back up to full price as soon as a ball is in danger of being kicked?
I cancelled by phone, and the recorded message told me my subscription to Sky Sports would be suspended "until there was live sport". BT were quiet about it.
I'm mildly surprised they didn't show live rhubarb thrashing and restart subs!
Post by: The Edge on May 21, 2020, 05:33:09 PM
Ah, fair enough. That's one thing in our favour. Not that it'll likely matter too much as they seem desperate to get Liverpool their title even if people literally have to die for it to happen.On balance of probabilities awarding Liverpool wouldn't be so controversial. Relegating teams would be extremely controversial when you look how tight it is at the bottom and the fact that we have a game in hand. So give them their precious title and don't relegate anyone. Of course as a Villa fan you'd expect me to say that but i honestly think it's as close to fair as we're gonna get.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 21, 2020, 06:10:54 PM
Post by: Gareth on May 21, 2020, 06:56:01 PM
Post by: aev on May 21, 2020, 07:38:47 PM
Some clubs are paying for the use of independent testers, others are relying on club staff and couriers to send some of the results. It is absolutely farcical.
Post by: aj2k77 on May 21, 2020, 07:48:47 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 21, 2020, 08:26:40 PM
Post by: Ads on May 21, 2020, 08:45:11 PM
That's the easiest way to limit litigation to more manageable chunks and you have a ready made compensation pot in parachute money to pay to the Championship clubs. Likely with a suspension of FFP for a period, to ameliorate issues.
Post by: Legion on May 21, 2020, 08:45:30 PM
Post by: David_Nab on May 21, 2020, 09:20:46 PM
Further with them in trouble ,rest will follow which means if Newcastle take over goes ahead they likely to be only ones with any real cash to spend.
Post by: Gareth on May 21, 2020, 10:03:12 PM
I think they'll end up promoting Leeds and the Stripey Filth, bin relegation, bin next years League Cup and crack on to settle obligations to TV and determination of European places.
That's the easiest way to limit litigation to more manageable chunks and you have a ready made compensation pot in parachute money to pay to the Championship clubs. Likely with a suspension of FFP for a period, to ameliorate issues.
I’d be surprised if they suspend FFP as that will threaten the ‘big’ clubs whose monopoly it was set up to protect - they won’t risk a rich owner like Everton / us or the next Newcastle ones going on a spending spree and trying to truly compete
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 21, 2020, 10:20:31 PM
I think they'll end up promoting Leeds and the Stripey Filth, bin relegation, bin next years League Cup and crack on to settle obligations to TV and determination of European places.
That's the easiest way to limit litigation to more manageable chunks and you have a ready made compensation pot in parachute money to pay to the Championship clubs. Likely with a suspension of FFP for a period, to ameliorate issues.
I’d be surprised if they suspend FFP as that will threaten the ‘big’ clubs whose monopoly it was set up to protect - they won’t risk a rich owner like Everton / us or the next Newcastle ones going on a spending spree and trying to truly compete
If they don't suspend it they're going to have to enforce it against practically every team in the league, including its biggest fans.
Post by: David_Nab on May 21, 2020, 10:49:15 PM
TBH if the gov starts bailing out clubs it won't stop with L1/L2 there will be Championship clubs as well
Post by: Rory on May 21, 2020, 11:31:03 PM
Leeds and West Brom are predicted top two in the Championship most years, primarily because they're too shit to get into/stay in the Premier League.
Fuck 'em.
Post by: VinnieChase84 on May 21, 2020, 11:32:00 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11992440/coronavirus-efl-league-one-league-two-clubs-could-fold-without-government-bailout-mp
TBH if the gov starts bailing out clubs it won't stop with L1/L2 there will be Championship clubs as well
If football gave a shit about the pyramid then simply the premier league should ‘offer’ to support. Do not relegate anyone this season, use the premier league parachute money to filter down the leagues.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 21, 2020, 11:32:39 PM
Post by: Rory on May 21, 2020, 11:34:03 PM
Leeds should be staying in the Championship because they are c***s, always have been, and always will be.
Should be written into the rules of the game.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 21, 2020, 11:36:39 PM
Post by: OzVilla on May 21, 2020, 11:40:56 PM
I know I'm not alone in saying this, but why the fuck do West Brom and Leeds deserve to be promoted? Last season, the three of us had a fully fair chance to be promoted; by the rules of the competition, we were, and the other two weren't. Why should a place in the league that we rightfully won be taken away when - again, by the laws of the competition - we haven't been relegated, and the others haven't been promoted.
Leeds and West Brom are predicted top two in the Championship most years, primarily because they're too shit to get into/stay in the Premier League.
Fuck 'em.
Totally agree, we played 49 league and play off games to earn promotion last season. Why should we lose that after only playing 28 this season (15 of which were away) when others gain promotion for playing only 36. Leeds and the Bitters act as though they are home and dry and they absolutely aren't.
However, I've zero faith in the authorities to strike a balance here if we can't restart.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 22, 2020, 02:43:28 AM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11992440/coronavirus-efl-league-one-league-two-clubs-could-fold-without-government-bailout-mpThere is new insolvency legislation coming in June and I think many clubs even leagues will be taking advantage of the New Moratorium.
TBH if the gov starts bailing out clubs it won't stop with L1/L2 there will be Championship clubs as well
Post by: Mister E on May 22, 2020, 08:32:50 AM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11992440/coronavirus-efl-league-one-league-two-clubs-could-fold-without-government-bailout-mp
TBH if the gov starts bailing out clubs it won't stop with L1/L2 there will be Championship clubs as well
Simlar article here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52680375
Post by: The Edge on May 22, 2020, 08:42:48 AM
I would imagine every Premier League team will play the youth team in the future for the League Cup (if they don’t decide to just not enter) if you can get punished by relegation for reaching the final.That's an excellent point.
Post by: Drummond on May 22, 2020, 09:52:19 AM
I would imagine every Premier League team will play the youth team in the future for the League Cup (if they don’t decide to just not enter) if you can get punished by relegation for reaching the final.That's an excellent point.
The FA Cup will go too.
Doesn't need much for either to go and this could tip it. That shambles of a match against Liverpool in the quarters showed what it would be like.
Post by: Ads on May 22, 2020, 10:53:05 AM
I know I'm not alone in saying this, but why the fuck do West Brom and Leeds deserve to be promoted? Last season, the three of us had a fully fair chance to be promoted; by the rules of the competition, we were, and the other two weren't. Why should a place in the league that we rightfully won be taken away when - again, by the laws of the competition - we haven't been relegated, and the others haven't been promoted.
Leeds and West Brom are predicted top two in the Championship most years, primarily because they're too shit to get into/stay in the Premier League.
Fuck 'em.
Deserve is a loaded term. The answer is of course neither of them ever deserve anything but a severe hammering.
My plan is based on the idea that it leasons the likelihood of relegation either automatically by a contrived mechanism to determine the league or via playing out the season in the bizarre circumstances that will be imposed.
Post by: aev on May 22, 2020, 11:48:44 AM
Without it, promotion may only happen if the league is completed (Norwich argument raised last week)?
Post by: Rory on May 22, 2020, 12:03:58 PM
Deserve is a loaded term. The answer is of course neither of them ever deserve anything but a severe hammering.
My plan is based on the idea that it leasons the likelihood of relegation either automatically by a contrived mechanism to determine the league or via playing out the season in the bizarre circumstances that will be imposed.
[/quote]
Wasn't having a go at your post, Ads. More this sense (particularly from fans of the clubs looking to be promoted) that the cowardly, snivelling clubs in the bottom five or six are selfishly trying to prevent their rightful replacement by Leeds and West Brom.
They're acting as if it's a foregone conclusion and to quote Keegan, I would love it, LOVE IT if the season resumed and they both lost all of their remaining games and missed out.
Post by: Ads on May 22, 2020, 12:12:37 PM
The perception of the bottom six being cowardly over the neutral venues was thrown into doubt when 13 or 14 clubs the other week said have another think.
Leeds might benefit from the break as intensity cost them last season, but there's no doubt at the back of their minds they can hear the bars of that Joy Division song, gnawing away at their cock sure belief, that promotion is a foregone conclusion for them.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 22, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 22, 2020, 12:49:47 PM
I would imagine every Premier League team will play the youth team in the future for the League Cup (if they don’t decide to just not enter) if you can get punished by relegation for reaching the final.That's an excellent point.
If we go down on some variation of PPG, it won't be because we made the League Cup final, it'll be because we lost more games over the season to date than any team other than Norwich.
It really isn't anyone elses fault.
Post by: Ads on May 22, 2020, 12:56:12 PM
Post by: saunders_heroes on May 22, 2020, 01:07:02 PM
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 22, 2020, 01:20:48 PM
I would imagine every Premier League team will play the youth team in the future for the League Cup (if they don’t decide to just not enter) if you can get punished by relegation for reaching the final.That's an excellent point.
If we go down on some variation of PPG, it won't be because we made the League Cup final, it'll be because we lost more games over the season to date than any team other than Norwich.
It really isn't anyone elses fault.
If we go down it will be the fault of whoever puts their own avarice ahead of sporting integrity.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 22, 2020, 01:53:10 PM
We obviously have played a game less than our immediate rivals due to playing in the league cup final. If we'd won that home fixture vs Sheff Utd we would be sitting in 16th position.
So to use some ppg sh-t to justify a relegation is ridiculous because the teams who occupied the bottom 3 in the 19 weeks we didn't have also been poor, that is why there are 6 teams fighting relegation.
To get relegated on the basis of playing a game less, because we took the league cup seriously to make the final would be ridiculous and going forwards it would certainly change my view about how seriously we should take cup competitions, particularly the league cup.
This faux football that the pl is trying to get going at the moment is ridiculous also and no better than a playstation game.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 22, 2020, 02:23:07 PM
Leeds should be staying in the Championship because they are c***s, always have been, and always will be.
Indeed. Should they be promoted and you hear them claiming they're "back where they belong", remind them they've spent more years in the Championship than they have in the top league. The Championship is their home.
Post by: Dick Edwards on May 22, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Post by: usav on May 22, 2020, 02:45:17 PM
I believe poor Charlton Athletic slipped into the relegation places for the first time this season on the day before the lockdown was announced. How unfair would that be to relegate them without another ball being kicked this season?
It would be as fair or unfair as anyone else that has a realistic chance of survival, if the games were played out.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 22, 2020, 02:57:49 PM
But it does look like they are hell bent on completing the season by some method.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 22, 2020, 03:13:22 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 22, 2020, 03:28:48 PM
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2020, 03:39:09 PM
To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2020, 03:42:49 PM
I did point out that the government has ruled out any games at all before June, and after that it will be games behind closed doors, so it's not that difficult actually to say that the season as defined as being before the end of May 2020 is over for the paying spectator.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 22, 2020, 04:06:07 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 22, 2020, 04:10:50 PM
To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 22, 2020, 04:14:42 PM
To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
And it still wouldn't be fair for the three clubs who were then at the bottom.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on May 22, 2020, 04:21:40 PM
I believe poor Charlton Athletic slipped into the relegation places for the first time this season on the day before the lockdown was announced. How unfair would that be to relegate them without another ball being kicked this season?At the expense of Middlesbrough who beat them in their last match!
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 22, 2020, 04:36:21 PM
F-cking hell!
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 22, 2020, 04:44:02 PM
It’s our fault we are where we are and of course thanks to Kevin Fiend, it certainly will not be our fault if they decide to relegate us ( the important word is decide).
But it does look like they are hell bent on completing the season by some method.
Well these matches whatever pre match expectations at least a point should have been taken
Engels at home Vs Spurs. Lost 3-2 gauling!
Liverpool home 0 pts 1-0 down with 2 goals conceded in last 3 mins.
Arsenal away Vs 10 men for 60 minutes and then not even getting the point in the last 10 minutes losing it.
Can throw in Bournemouth and Burnley matches too not collecting points .
Fine margins in some respects
Post by: Richard E on May 22, 2020, 04:45:18 PM
I believe poor Charlton Athletic slipped into the relegation places for the first time this season on the day before the lockdown was announced. How unfair would that be to relegate them without another ball being kicked this season?At the expense of Middlesbrough who beat them in their last match!
I don't really like Middlesbrough, so I am cool with that.
Post by: Ad@m on May 22, 2020, 05:23:55 PM
To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
And it still wouldn't be fair for the three clubs who were then at the bottom.
You seem to be arguing to agree with me.
Post by: paul_e on May 22, 2020, 05:33:18 PM
As an example of how bad it is I took a 2 recent seasons, 1 where the top 4 and bottom 3 didn't change (16/17) from mid march to the end of the season and one where it did (17/18).
Even in 16/17, a year where theoretically the idea works, the amount of deviation in that final quarter of the season was still massive with WBA finishing nearly 12 points worse than 'predicted' and 10 teams being more than 3 points away from the prediction with just 8 teams finishing in the same spot as predicted. That's a year where no one 'lost' because of it.
If you take the 17/18 season instead palace went from 18th to 11th and swansea went 13th to 18th so there would've been a clear loser. This time 9 teams were more than 3 points away from the predicted points and just 9 teams finished in the same position.
Given the role of league position in the final TV funds even teams that aren't in the top 4 or bottom 3 are impacted by receiving prize money that they are statistically unlikely to have gotten in a completed season.
Post by: john e on May 22, 2020, 05:48:43 PM
they won’t let this happen again after 28 games played give or take
then anyone complaining about it not being fair they will just say you knew the rules before we started
Post by: The Edge on May 22, 2020, 06:01:53 PM
You seem hell bent on accepting us being relegated unfairly. We have played one less game than our rivals.Only when every club has played an equal amount of games can the word fairness apply. It's as simple as that.To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
And it still wouldn't be fair for the three clubs who were then at the bottom.
You seem to be arguing to agree with me.
Post by: aev on May 22, 2020, 06:17:20 PM
You seem hell bent on accepting us being relegated unfairly. We have played one less game than our rivals.Only when every club has played an equal amount of games can the word fairness apply. It's as simple as that.To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
And it still wouldn't be fair for the three clubs who were then at the bottom.
You seem to be arguing to agree with me.
...under the rules and framework set out at the start of the competition.
Post by: Ad@m on May 22, 2020, 06:27:57 PM
You seem hell bent on accepting us being relegated unfairly. We have played one less game than our rivals.Only when every club has played an equal amount of games can the word fairness apply. It's as simple as that.To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
And it still wouldn't be fair for the three clubs who were then at the bottom.
You seem to be arguing to agree with me.
I'd go and have another read of the very first sentence quoted above if I was you.
Post by: The Edge on May 22, 2020, 06:36:23 PM
That sentence changes nothing. You are the only person who thinks it would be our own fault if ppg was used to relegate us even though we have our game in hand.You seem hell bent on accepting us being relegated unfairly. We have played one less game than our rivals.Only when every club has played an equal amount of games can the word fairness apply. It's as simple as that.To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
And it still wouldn't be fair for the three clubs who were then at the bottom.
You seem to be arguing to agree with me.
I'd go and have another read of the very first sentence quoted above if I was you.
Post by: saunders_heroes on May 22, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 22, 2020, 07:45:44 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 22, 2020, 08:47:49 PM
Not for me. Play the whole season, or void it. No cutting it off when everyone has played different teams and have differing home and away matches remaining. I would also say it should wait until you can have proper home matches in front of fans, but the league don't seem to care about fucking us over on that front.
I agree. And they're not going to void it so we should play the games, despite it being unfair. As Ad@am points out we shot ourselves in the foot enough times when it was fair (as well as officials shooting us in the other foot at times - but lots of clubs have had that) so we'll have to do it against the odds on the pitch.
I will still moan if/when we go down, because it isn't fair.
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 22, 2020, 08:59:18 PM
Not for me. Play the whole season, or void it. No cutting it off when everyone has played different teams and have differing home and away matches remaining. I would also say it should wait until you can have proper home matches in front of fans, but the league don't seem to care about fucking us over on that front.
This, all day long, in fact I would go further, much further, the season is dead and buried, and games played now have no relevance to the season just past other than playing out the remaining games in order to justify financial woes, for a start you already have a number of players tested positive so there is one disadvantaged side, or more, you have a number of players who are voicing there concerns about playing and don't want to train, another reason, management staff have tested positive and above all else can the FA give an absolute guarantee that no player is going to suffer because of the virus, due to the resumption of the Premier League season, no way can they.
Season is dead, everything stays as it is, hopefully the season can start in August although I would doubt that.
Post by: Steve67 on May 22, 2020, 10:37:33 PM
Post by: rougegorge on May 22, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
After the bad run of results and the absolute debacle at Leicester I think we would have struggled to stay up even under normal circumstances.
Maybe we'll come back better as it will have been a very long break, but with a preponderance of opponents in the top half to play, I fear we may just not be good enough, fans or no fans.
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 22, 2020, 11:23:59 PM
The FA are hellbent on finishing the season. Therefore, we have to play our way out of relegation. There is lots of unfairness about it with Friend, VAR and having to play away more times than at home in front of opposition fans. It's crap and I want them to void, although it looks like that shags us as well. It looks like we have to play our way to safety and Dean Smith does his job properly. The break might do us good as we were in the slumpiest of slumps. I don't like it, it's about money, but if we have to play, at least it's in our hands.
Personally I think the FA are really struggling to justify the restart, as each day goes by, the more it looks crazy to restart, put it this way, if they don't have a start date for June end, within the next week, 10 days, it just can't happen, each day is now decisive in decision making terms for the FA, think of it this way, next week players may, only might, be allowed to make contact, we are miles of in comparison to the German model and there preparation for there restart, plus we could be restarting at just the point that infection could be increasing, the problem here is you have the government and then you have the FA and both look poles apart.
rougegorge: I'm not so sure its nailed on we would be relegated, I don't think Smith is the right manager, I think had we got rid of him, we would have had a much better chance, I'm convinced we are 20% below par in performance terms with the squad we have, could have done way better with these lads and that would have been enough to enable us to survive, you could say, ''own worst enemy'' that said, Villa historically always do it the hard way, I think we would scrape 17th place even on restart, we've got enough, sure of it.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 22, 2020, 11:45:29 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 22, 2020, 11:49:11 PM
If they try to relegate anyone based on PPG all clubs have to do is point to Leicester in 2015. Bottom of the table at the same stage of the season and would be relegated if this had happened then. We all know what happened over the last 9 games of the season. W7 D1 L1.
Exactly correct there are so many nuances, so many pointers, I still can't see how they can restart, think we are getting lip service, mitigation firewall.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 23, 2020, 12:31:06 AM
If they try to relegate anyone based on PPG all clubs have to do is point to Leicester in 2015. Bottom of the table at the same stage of the season and would be relegated if this had happened then. We all know what happened over the last 9 games of the season. W7 D1 L1.
Ouch!
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 23, 2020, 02:48:06 AM
Post by: Singapore Villa on May 23, 2020, 03:19:22 AM
We have been practicing it whilst defending corners for several seasons....
Post by: Mister E on May 23, 2020, 07:39:51 AM
The problem with PPG is that there's no way it can account for all the variables over the next 9/10 games...Great work, Paul. Ihope you're going to send that analysis to the tw*ts at the EPL and FA. And to all the main media outlets.
As an example of how bad it is I took a 2 recent seasons, 1 where the top 4 and bottom 3 didn't change (16/17) from mid march to the end of the season and one where it did (17/18).
Post by: old man villa fan on May 23, 2020, 09:38:11 AM
The problem with PPG is that there's no way it can account for all the variables over the next 9/10 games...Great work, Paul. Ihope you're going to send that analysis to the tw*ts at the EPL and FA. And to all the main media outlets.
As an example of how bad it is I took a 2 recent seasons, 1 where the top 4 and bottom 3 didn't change (16/17) from mid march to the end of the season and one where it did (17/18).
Add in the fact that over the last 10 seasons, 10 clubs have escaped relegation after being in the bottom three after 29 matches. PPG over the first 29 matches does not represent how seasons finish on the run in and there is factual evidence to support that.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 23, 2020, 09:58:26 AM
Personally I think the FA are really struggling to justify the restart, as each day goes by, the more it looks crazy to restart, put it this way, if they don't have a start date for June end, within the next week, 10 days, it just can't happen, each day is now decisive in decision making terms for the FA, think of it this way, next week players may, only might, be allowed to make contact, we are miles of in comparison to the German model
Rather than becoming more decisive on how the season will finish, things are becoming more vague. They know if they commit to dates, things will not be achieved and they will have to abandon the season. Even on the current course, it is becoming doubtful that the season will be complete by the end of July, compared with when they were talking about the end of June not so long ago. So, we are going to see them cutting short the training period. Completing 9 matches, playing weekend and midweek, will take 4 weeks to complete and that does not factor in the two additional matches that have to be factored in.
No comments have been made about how many players in each team will be allowed to go down with the virus before they say that team has to stop playing. Why is this? Probably so they can make it up as they go along to suite the agenda of 'Project Restart at any costs'. There is talk of limiting squad sizes during training, so what happens when injuries start to deplete squads? You cannot just bring in U21s as they will not have been training or followed testing regimes. Where are they on venues for matches?
This is all b*******.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 23, 2020, 10:21:07 AM
The transfer window is due to open 10th June, with contracts starting 1st July. This does not fit with the EPL timetable for completing this season but what about other countries that abandoned their seasons who are ready to start making preparations for next season.
People are talking about cancelling next season so as to complete this season but we could possibly be in a situation early next year of being able to attend matches again but with no football to watch.
Failing to sort out next season is going to have more of an impact on clubs than completing this season. Going to hell in a handcart all for the sake of letting Liverpool win the title and promoting Leeds (West Brom are just riding the coattails, nobody is interested in them!)
Post by: tony scott on May 23, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 23, 2020, 11:38:28 AM
Post by: Ad@m on May 23, 2020, 11:41:31 AM
If they do end up playing an odd number of games next year they better make sure we have an extra home game, after this season's shenanigans.
In the old days of HDE he'd have used such a scenario to justify a season ticket price increase. After refusing any demand for refunds this season...
Post by: The Moose on May 23, 2020, 12:18:19 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 23, 2020, 12:46:58 PM
Exclusive interview with Tranmere owner Mark Palios: 'We will not take relegation lying down'
Palios said that football is already in a precarious situation without causing further damage to clubs through unnecessary relegation
By
Matt Law,
Football News Correspondent
22 May 2020 • 5:01pm
Mark Palios has promised that he and Tranmere Rovers will fight against the recommendation of the EFL board that would relegate the club if the League One season has to be curtailed.
Legal action will be among the possible avenues for owner Palios to pursue if Tranmere are relegated on a points-per-game basis in the event of clubs voting to curtail the season.
He would not confirm whether he will take the legal option, but branded the justification that relegation is ‘integral to the integrity of the pyramid’ as “a lazy analysis and convenient soundbite.”
The EFL on Thursday recommended that if clubs vote in favour of curtailing the season, then promotion, relegation and play-off places will be determined by points-per-game. That would mean third-from-bottom Tranmere would be relegated to League Two, even though they are just three points behind Wimbledon, over whom they have a game in hand.
Given Tranmere had also won three successive games, all away from home, before the League One season was suspended because of the coronavirus outbreak, their relegation would be seen as the biggest injustice of any curtailment scenario.
“You can’t underestimate the strength of feeling that is currently running through the club and I think it’s a strength of feeling that I don’t think will go away until the sense of injustice goes away,” said Palios. “My first response to it is anger.
“I’m trying to gather more information from the EFL so I understand the process and, in particular, the timing of that process. Once I understand that, I can understand what all the options are to ensure we protect the interest of Tranmere Rovers Football Club.
“We’re not prepared to just take that [relegation] lying down and I wouldn’t think that anyone would expect me to do that. The cost of a legal action would pale into insignificance in comparison to the impact on the club.”
The EFL board have asked for clubs to consider its recommendations ahead of a vote and Palios has responded by making an alternative proposal that would see clubs win promotion and compete in an expanded play-off format, while voiding relegation if the season is curtailed.
“This isn’t a board decision and that gives me some sort of opportunity,” said Palios. “It says clubs can consider it and I have crafted and sent in my response to the statement, together with a detailed and fleshed out alternative proposal which is the one I announced last week.
“I will be asking for copies of the board minutes if I can have them. I need to know on something as serious as this for the club, on what basis was the decision made? With all due respect to the EFL, I don’t think setting the points out and then in a note to editors referring to three or four sections of the regulations is really adequate communication. And certainly not when one club in particular could get sacrificed.”
Former Football Association chief executive Palios does not accept the view of his former employers that relegation must take place across all divisions to protect the integrity of the football pyramid, which has been repeated as justification by the EFL.
“Why would you take an option that severely damages a club in a situation where everybody in football is already facing a financial debacle,” said Palios. “You’ve made it worse for one club, so why would you do that?
“I think it’s instructive that when you read the EFL statement there is absolutely no mention of fairness. That’s because it reflects probably the reality of it. And that is inconsistent with, for example, the decision of the League Two clubs who didn’t want to relegate the bottom club because of fairness.
“It’s also inconsistent with the stance of the FA, when they looked at a situation with steps three to seven and came to the conclusion it was unfair to relegate clubs. So there is an inconsistency in what they say and no hint of fairness.”
Tranmere’s alternative proposal would see the potential for expanded EFL divisions next season with the possibility for more than one relegation to and from the National League in future.
“Our proposal enhances and supports the pyramid, rather than taking what I would call a lazy analysis and a convenient soundbite that relegation is core to the integrity of the pyramid,” said 67-year-old Palios. “That soundbite has been parroted by the EFL as a justification in our particular case and it’s the parroting of it by the EFL that concerns me.”
Palios did not want to speculate on whether there would be any human cost, in terms of jobs, to Tranmere being relegated and stressed the club are on a sound financial footing. But asked to explain what going down to League Two would mean for the club, he said: “It isn’t so much the cash, it’s the League One status.
“The cash is very material in terms of what hits us, because it’s not just losing the central payments, it’s the sponsorships that are hit and a lot of other things. You can look at that and make a loss assessment for that. But the big question is for how many years? It might take us 10 years to get back into League One and I could be dead.”
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 23, 2020, 02:55:30 PM
Decent bloke although he did react strongly to a tackle in a Veterans match.
Post by: AV82EC on May 23, 2020, 03:21:19 PM
Palio’s interesting character , heads a one parent family with several daughters, played for Tranmere, was the 3 rd piece in the Sven Alam love triangle.
Decent bloke although he did react strongly to a tackle in a Veterans match.
From recollection I seem to recall the love triangle revelations telling us Palios was hung like a horse.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 23, 2020, 04:01:57 PM
To be clear, I'm not saying relegating anyone based on PPG is fair. I'm saying that claiming we're only at risk of being relegated this way is because we took the League Cup seriously is bollocks.
We're where we are in the table because we haven't been good enough for 28 games. It's no one else's fault.
Which would at least be semi-defendable if everybody else had played 28 games.
What difference does that make? We've had 28 matches to not be in the bottom three. In 17 of those we've lost, which is more times than anyone else bar Norwich, despite the fact we've played fewer games.
Had we got one more point in any of those 28 matches PPG wouldn't be an issue.
Late goals to lose
Spurs. Home
Liverpool home
Arsenal Away
Even if we drew those 3 that would be 3pts extra by my maths.
Post by: mr underhill on May 23, 2020, 04:34:32 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 23, 2020, 04:52:23 PM
What is happening about next season? What planning is going into playing out next season and under what conditions. A new season does not just happen. No mention yet about a date for the start of next season. A minimum two month break is required between seasons for transfers, contract discussions, commercial sponsorship, training etc. All the talk has been about completing the leagues, what about the FA Cup and European matches? Earliest restart for the EPL on this basis will be October.
The transfer window is due to open 10th June, with contracts starting 1st July. This does not fit with the EPL timetable for completing this season but what about other countries that abandoned their seasons who are ready to start making preparations for next season.
People are talking about cancelling next season so as to complete this season but we could possibly be in a situation early next year of being able to attend matches again but with no football to watch.
Failing to sort out next season is going to have more of an impact on clubs than completing this season. Going to hell in a handcart all for the sake of letting Liverpool win the title and promoting Leeds (West Brom are just riding the coattails, nobody is interested in them!)
I couldn’t agree more with this. This obsession to finish a season is really going to mess up next season now.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 23, 2020, 04:53:22 PM
What if we didn't get last minute winners vs Brighton and Watford. Football is about swings and roundabouts
Those games are gone, those kind of games have always happened and will continue to happen.
Get over it and move on.
Post by: Mister E on May 23, 2020, 05:23:34 PM
Haha.Palio’s interesting character , heads a one parent family with several daughters, played for Tranmere, was the 3 rd piece in the Sven Alam love triangle.
Decent bloke although he did react strongly to a tackle in a Veterans match.
From recollection I seem to recall the love triangle revelations telling us Palios was hung like a horse.
He risked a huge penal sentence for the tryst at the FA.
Post by: Alex77 on May 23, 2020, 06:27:21 PM
And if my Auntie had balls...
She should get herself to the doctors!
Post by: Legion on May 23, 2020, 06:34:51 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 23, 2020, 06:43:48 PM
Post by: Ads on May 23, 2020, 06:45:20 PM
Watching the Bayern Munich game. Lots of fist bumping and high fives going on. Isn't that not allowed?
Considering they mark man tight at corners, I'm not sure what the point of the balony optics for social distancing of subs and teams in the warm up, celebrations etc
Post by: Somniloquism on May 23, 2020, 10:40:54 PM
Post by: eamonn on May 23, 2020, 11:47:34 PM
Watching the Bayern Munich game. Lots of fist bumping and high fives going on. Isn't that not allowed?
Considering they mark man tight at corners, I'm not sure what the point of the balony optics for social distancing of subs and teams in the warm up, celebrations etc
Yeah Paulie, don't be a spoilsport.
Post by: eamonn on May 23, 2020, 11:49:15 PM
Haha.Palio’s interesting character , heads a one parent family with several daughters, played for Tranmere, was the 3 rd piece in the Sven Alam love triangle.
Decent bloke although he did react strongly to a tackle in a Veterans match.
From recollection I seem to recall the love triangle revelations telling us Palios was hung like a horse.
He risked a huge penal sentence for the tryst at the FA.
Well-hung instruments can also really hurt their, er, target. Or so I keep telling myself.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 23, 2020, 11:56:28 PM
And if my Auntie had balls...
She should get herself to the doctors!
Well a specialist gender identity clinic.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 24, 2020, 12:16:25 AM
Winning everything again this June and July would be perfect !!
Up the villa!
Post by: tony scott on May 24, 2020, 04:25:00 AM
Post by: exigo on May 24, 2020, 11:58:56 AM
Post by: fredm on May 24, 2020, 02:16:53 PM
Post by: aev on May 24, 2020, 02:23:11 PM
Not sure which one is the anomaly?
Post by: Mister E on May 24, 2020, 02:59:39 PM
There seems to be a fewer positive tests in the Championship than in the PL.Are the testing regimes comparable?
Not sure which one is the anomaly?
Post by: paul_e on May 24, 2020, 03:06:04 PM
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 24, 2020, 09:03:32 PM
Post by: nick harper on May 24, 2020, 10:41:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 24, 2020, 11:23:58 PM
Watching subs and other staff making an attempt, a poor one, at wearing masks is laughable and as you said what's the point?Watching the Bayern Munich game. Lots of fist bumping and high fives going on. Isn't that not allowed?
Considering they mark man tight at corners, I'm not sure what the point of the balony optics for social distancing of subs and teams in the warm up, celebrations etc
Post by: exigo on May 25, 2020, 08:54:50 AM
AFG Arhus virtual grandstand (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52782033)
Be a good way to dust off the Pride Reward points for our six home games.
Post by: baddowvillans on May 25, 2020, 10:15:01 AM
Post by: spangley1812 on May 25, 2020, 12:27:56 PM
Once there is full contact training, or the games commence, and a player tests positive, I’m not clear what happens then. Do the whole squad and last opposition have to self isolate for 14 days? Isn’t that what the trace, test, isolate plan all about? Or are they just going to ignore that?
This is all stuff that will be announced over the next few weeks as they move towards trying to restart, they will follow what happens in Germany and Spain
Post by: Steve67 on May 25, 2020, 12:46:17 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 25, 2020, 02:37:29 PM
If even six weeks ago you had said this is where we will be in six weeks time and still have to sort this and that out, people would have said cancel the season now.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 25, 2020, 03:59:32 PM
The players and the clubs are being led down a path one step at a time, with each step being a small leap. The full truth of the situation is being kept from them so they can knock down one hurdle at a time with the weight of public opinion magnified by the self-interested media.
If even six weeks ago you had said this is where we will be in six weeks time and still have to sort this and that out, people would have said cancel the season now.
Do you ever get that feeling that somebody is looking over your shoulder. No sooner had I posted the above and check the Telegraph sports pages and by coincidence I see:
Now is not the time for the Premier League to decide what happens if the season is curtailed
While it appears logical for the Premier League to debate this issue, doing so will only create greater confusion
JASON BURT
CHIEF FOOTBALL CORRESPONDENT
Who goes on to write:
"What all this suggests is that while it appears logical, and for the sake of clarity, for the Premier League to decide on what happens if the season is curtailed now it is probably not the right time to do so. Because it has not already taken place it is a discussion that can wait".
Post by: Gareth on May 25, 2020, 07:39:08 PM
Once there is full contact training, or the games commence, and a player tests positive, I’m not clear what happens then. Do the whole squad and last opposition have to self isolate for 14 days? Isn’t that what the trace, test, isolate plan all about? Or are they just going to ignore that?
They will class any positive test as a normal injury & no doubt they will exclude anyone other than the infected player from isolating after all we are doing this for ‘the morale of the nation’ - on a couple of subscription tv channels obviously 🙄
Post by: sid1964 on May 26, 2020, 05:44:08 AM
Post by: OzVilla on May 26, 2020, 07:24:59 AM
I'm not a legal expert, but with no mention of PPG anywhere in the EPL handbook or even leaked to say that they have a pre-agreed model in the event of a curtailment you'd think a legal case against the EPL if they tried to enforce PPG would be on reasonably strong ground. Your effectively being forced to forfeit an asset with hundreds of millions of pounds. As part of the 5% EPL ownership they'd be binding contractual obligations on both sides, one of those being a season is played over 38 games and only at the end of a season being completed is there then relegation. Contractually can the EPL change these terms now?
I still think if we play we'll be more than safe by the end of the season, just think we needed the break more than the others did.
Post by: Risso on May 26, 2020, 10:29:23 AM
Fortunately I think our owners most certainly will go legal.
I'm not a legal expert, but with no mention of PPG anywhere in the EPL handbook or even leaked to say that they have a pre-agreed model in the event of a curtailment you'd think a legal case against the EPL if they tried to enforce PPG would be on reasonably strong ground. Your effectively being forced to forfeit an asset with hundreds of millions of pounds. As part of the 5% EPL ownership they'd be binding contractual obligations on both sides, one of those being a season is played over 38 games and only at the end of a season being completed is there then relegation. Contractually can the EPL change these terms now?
I still think if we play we'll be more than safe by the end of the season, just think we needed the break more than the others did.
If everybody had played the same number of games. there'd at least be an argument for ending the season on that basis. Of course there'd still be arguments about number of home and away games played and quality of opposition etc, but at least it would be a relatively level playing field.
Points per game is utter bollocks though. As I said earlier, looking at extreme examples, if this happened at the very start of the season, would you relegate a team for being on zero points if they hadn't played a game and everybody else had? Or say it's the very end of the season, and a team like Liverpool have 90 points and a plus 25 goal difference. Man City have played one game less and are on 87 points with a plus 35 goal difference and a home game against Norwich to come. Are you going to award the title to Liverpool on that basis? (Extreme examples to illustrate the point, not actual real points).
Post by: old man villa fan on May 26, 2020, 10:59:04 AM
Post by: Mister E on May 26, 2020, 11:59:59 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/25/barnsley-relegation-letter-efl
Post by: CT on May 26, 2020, 12:11:09 PM
https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1265236991051829249?s=21
Post by: Risso on May 26, 2020, 04:34:52 PM
Spoke to the club earlier today, they're sending out an email possibly today/over the weekend/by Tuesday at the latest concerning what's happening for season ticket holders. The person I spoke to said that it's difficult because the Premier League haven't officially ended the season or said what they were going to do.
I did point out that the government has ruled out any games at all before June, and after that it will be games behind closed doors, so it's not that difficult actually to say that the season as defined as being before the end of May 2020 is over for the paying spectator.
4.30pm now on Tuesday, and nothing received. Shoddy work by the club.
Post by: Richard E on May 26, 2020, 04:51:43 PM
Spoke to the club earlier today, they're sending out an email possibly today/over the weekend/by Tuesday at the latest concerning what's happening for season ticket holders. The person I spoke to said that it's difficult because the Premier League haven't officially ended the season or said what they were going to do.
I did point out that the government has ruled out any games at all before June, and after that it will be games behind closed doors, so it's not that difficult actually to say that the season as defined as being before the end of May 2020 is over for the paying spectator.
4.30pm now on Tuesday, and nothing received. Shoddy work by the club.
Particularly as they should have addressed this some time ago anyway.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 26, 2020, 05:11:09 PM
Post by: colin69 on May 26, 2020, 05:21:55 PM
Post by: Risso on May 26, 2020, 05:24:43 PM
Like most workplaces, the commercial department might not be exactly firing on all cylinders. Give them a chance and I'm sure they'll get some info out this week. Their Twitter account has asked season ticket holders to check their email addresses are up to date as info is coming.
That doesn't wash in my opinion. It's been clear for many weeks now that if the season was to be played out at all, it wasn't going to be before the end of May, and in no circumstances was it going to be in front of supporters in the stadium. They've then said that a communication would go out on Tuesday or before, and failed to do that. A classic case of over-promising and under-delivering.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 26, 2020, 05:30:10 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 26, 2020, 05:37:49 PM
This based on me having to come up with tournament formats for junior football and reading about the strange way some leagues have set up in recent years and especially in Brazil.
Firstly, no relegation from the EPL for 2019/20 but promote three clubs from the Championship.
For 2020/21 the format is changed for one season only and is split into two phases.
In the first phase every club plays every other one once so each club plays 22 games with half being home and half away. The fixtures will be drawn before the season starts.
At that point the league will split into two groups: the top 11 and the bottom 12 for phase 2.
In phase 2 the top 11 will play the other 10 once for the championship and the European places. The bottom 12 will play the other 11 once to determine the relegation places. The bottom 6 in the relegation group at the end of phase 2 will go down.
The fixtures in phase 2 will be determined by whether a club has already played another at home in phase 1 and the if they have the second game will be away.
This would give clubs 32 or 33 games but a potential later start to the season would mean the time available would be squeezed but this would give scope to finishing before the rescheduled Euros next summer. Of course there would be gnashing of teeth about lost revenue and possibly only playing some clubs once but those would be the competition rules which would have to be agreed to before the start of the season.
Of course I could be talking absolute rubbish.
Post by: colin69 on May 26, 2020, 05:38:32 PM
Has any club released any info regarding 19/20 and 20/21 season tickets?
Everton I believe, maybe others.
I realise it’s a difficult time for clubs, but we aren’t going to see the remaining games so we should be refunded ASAP.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 26, 2020, 05:59:50 PM
Post by: Mister E on May 26, 2020, 07:05:21 PM
When this does kick off it’ll be interesting to see whether there’s a change in performance levels from some players. Is what sets apart some of the top players their ability to cope with the pressure of a crowd? Conversely do some players become less inhibited without a crowd? Etc.Sure, but there are also factors such as fitness, mental health, the motivaton to play under weird circumstances, the position of the club they play for in the league and what's at stake; etc.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 26, 2020, 09:00:47 PM
Post by: Des Little on May 26, 2020, 09:10:17 PM
Post by: Risso on May 26, 2020, 09:46:56 PM
Of course. It’s interesting to see if that changes any existing dynamics.
The pessimistic Villa fan in me thinks that whatever can go wrong in any set of circumstances, probably will where Villa are concerned. We got stick for fans booing the players when they were getting battered, now games will be behind closed doors I've no doubt at all that we'll adapt the worst to it.
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 26, 2020, 10:09:54 PM
One thing is for certain, there are going to be some freak results under these new conditions. Let’s hope that we take full advantage of any such opportunities.
The Villa way, we'll either lose every game without scoring a goal and get relegated, or win every game beating every other side out of sight.
Post by: andyh on May 27, 2020, 05:09:07 AM
Trouble is, we are starting all over again.
Post by: Mister E on May 27, 2020, 07:58:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2020, 08:11:15 AM
Smith tells us his teams always finish strongly.
Trouble is, we are starting all over again.
Got to be honest as well that prior to everything that has happened we didn’t exactly look like we were building up to a strong finish.
Post by: Nastylee on May 27, 2020, 11:03:21 AM
One thing is for certain, there are going to be some freak results under these new conditions. Let’s hope that we take full advantage of any such opportunities.
You can be sure of one thing. If there's any opportunity or advantage to be had then Villa will be nowhere near it.
Post by: Towser on May 27, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Quote
Season Ticket Reimbursement Statement
Aston Villa can confirm supporters will be reimbursed for our six remaining home matches in anticipation of the current Covid-19 pandemic forcing the 2019/20 season to finish behind closed doors.
Supporters who have been impacted will either be provided with a refund, an e-voucher which can be used against future purchases or make a donation to the Aston Villa Foundation.
Season Ticket holders will receive a refund or an e-voucher for the six matches while supporters who purchased individual match tickets will also receive a refund.
Email communications will be sent out to supporters, including Claret and Club members, detailing further information and a set of accompanying FAQs. Supporters are kindly asked to ensure that the email address on their account is up-to-date and accessible. This can be checked by logging in to the online account.
Hospitality guests who are members or have purchased individual match packages will also be refunded or provided with an e-voucher. Hospitality staff will be contacting the latter with further details while communications will also be sent out to members.
Please be aware that there are very limited staff available to answer calls to the ticket office so supporters are advised to wait for the email communications and FAQs before contacting the club with any queries.
Thank you for your support.
Post by: Dave P on May 27, 2020, 11:56:40 AM
Post by: CT on May 27, 2020, 01:30:58 PM
Just had the email for refundsQuoteSeason Ticket Reimbursement Statement
Aston Villa can confirm supporters will be reimbursed for our six remaining home matches in anticipation of the current Covid-19 pandemic forcing the 2019/20 season to finish behind closed doors.
Supporters who have been impacted will either be provided with a refund, an e-voucher which can be used against future purchases or make a donation to the Aston Villa Foundation.
Season Ticket holders will receive a refund or an e-voucher for the six matches while supporters who purchased individual match tickets will also receive a refund.
Email communications will be sent out to supporters, including Claret and Club members, detailing further information and a set of accompanying FAQs. Supporters are kindly asked to ensure that the email address on their account is up-to-date and accessible. This can be checked by logging in to the online account.
Hospitality guests who are members or have purchased individual match packages will also be refunded or provided with an e-voucher. Hospitality staff will be contacting the latter with further details while communications will also be sent out to members.
Please be aware that there are very limited staff available to answer calls to the ticket office so supporters are advised to wait for the email communications and FAQs before contacting the club with any queries.
Thank you for your support.
All seems very fair to me. Haven’t got the email yet (checked junk too).
Post by: Risso on May 27, 2020, 03:09:13 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 27, 2020, 03:11:20 PM
Why would anybody want an e-voucher instead of the cash? OK you can then put it against next year's season ticket, but I think I'd want to see what was likely to happen in respect of the new season first.
There would have been a time when I'd have accepted a voucher for some e's, but those days are gone.
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 27, 2020, 03:11:32 PM
Why would anybody want an e-voucher instead of the cash? OK you can then put it against next year's season ticket, but I think I'd want to see what was likely to happen in respect of the new season first.
There are supporters at every level, even the Premier League, who think their club is doing them a favour by taking their money.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 27, 2020, 04:13:06 PM
Also, I wonder if the credit may be for a higher value than the cash sum?
Post by: john e on May 27, 2020, 05:03:01 PM
Why would anybody want an e-voucher instead of the cash? OK you can then put it against next year's season ticket, but I think I'd want to see what was likely to happen in respect of the new season first.
I’ve never been that good with money, if it’s there I’ll just spend it
if we stay up I will renew so I guess the e voucher would work for people like me have little self control
Post by: Ad@m on May 27, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
The absence of home fans has led to only 3 home wins out of 22 matches. Our extra home game doesn't really sound like much of an advantage given those stats.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52806884
Post by: olaftab on May 27, 2020, 05:15:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2020, 05:17:36 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 27, 2020, 05:17:56 PM
I don't care about the refund I just want them to win at least 4 of those 6 home games and I would be delighted.Why would anybody want an e-voucher instead of the cash? OK you can then put it against next year's season ticket, but I think I'd want to see what was likely to happen in respect of the new season first.
There are supporters at every level, even the Premier League, who think their club is doing them a favour by taking their money.
Post by: Mister E on May 27, 2020, 05:24:11 PM
That may be so Ad@m but we need to make sure we are ready for a fight. Players have let the club and fans down especially over the last few games now they need to get us out of this mess.That is what seems to have been missing in the previous part of the season. Well, that and the defensive organisation.
Oh, and the existence of Drinky.
And ball-retention.
Post by: Legion on May 27, 2020, 05:29:44 PM
Post by: andyh on May 27, 2020, 05:33:39 PM
God knows how this will pan out, there is absolutely nothing to use as a gauge.
As Aftab says let’s just hope we are up for the fight.
Post by: CT on May 27, 2020, 06:20:36 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on May 27, 2020, 06:31:11 PM
Four more positive PL tests confirmed.
4 out of 1008 tested
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 27, 2020, 06:33:18 PM
Quote
Premier League clubs have unanimously voted to resume contact training as four more individuals across three teams have tested positive for coronavirus.
Post by: Rory on May 27, 2020, 11:16:49 PM
But I maintain that whoever goes down will have been mistreated.
Post by: cdward on May 27, 2020, 11:28:27 PM
Post by: brentastonb6 on May 28, 2020, 12:42:52 AM
I guess some people may have just accounted for the money having left their account and be happy for it to be credited to the next season ticket, rather than having it refunded and spending it on beer?
Also, I wonder if the credit may be for a higher value than the cash sum?
I’m just happy to be getting something back that I didn’t expect . I know the club have said you can donate it to the Villa Foundation but I know a lot of people won’t necessarily have the cash to give . I fall in between as I know there’s lots of people more needy than me that I would like to continue helping but likewise help with next year’s season ticket is appreciated. I just bounced the club message back asking if we could do a half and half option . When BT sport cancelled the cost of their package you had the option of saving half the cost and giving the other 50% to NHS charities
Post by: Damo70 on May 28, 2020, 02:01:08 AM
That may be so Ad@m but we need to make sure we are ready for a fight. Players have let the club and fans down especially over the last few games now they need to get us out of this mess.That is what seems to have been missing in the previous part of the season. Well, that and the defensive organisation.
Oh, and the existence of Drinky.
And ball-retention.
Our lack of quality ball retention has been royally pissing me off all season. We are so sloppy and loose on way too many occasions, even on occasions when the opposition aren't closing us down and we are under very little pressure.
Post by: OzVilla on May 28, 2020, 03:01:09 AM
Four more positive PL tests confirmed.
4 out of 1008 tested
Or 10 in the first week of tests as its the same people tested over and over.
Post by: spangley1812 on May 28, 2020, 06:40:32 AM
Four more positive PL tests confirmed.
4 out of 1008 tested
Or 10 in the first week of tests as its the same people tested over and over.
Its not as they are expanding the number of tested at each club every time they test which is twice weekly
Post by: mallo on May 28, 2020, 09:07:41 AM
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 09:15:37 AM
Post by: Ad@m on May 28, 2020, 09:18:01 AM
Maybe we can use the e-voucher to buy a cardboard cutout of ourselves for the crowd, as they did in Germany, I think people paid €19.
That's some pretty impressive commercialism right there. Charging fans €19 to NOT attend games! Jesus!
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 28, 2020, 10:17:30 AM
Maybe we can use the e-voucher to buy a cardboard cutout of ourselves for the crowd, as they did in Germany, I think people paid €19.
That's some pretty impressive commercialism right there. Charging fans €19 to NOT attend games! Jesus!
I think they get to keep their own cardboard cut out though! (eventually)
Post by: chrisw1 on May 28, 2020, 10:18:33 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fan driven venture.Maybe we can use the e-voucher to buy a cardboard cutout of ourselves for the crowd, as they did in Germany, I think people paid €19.
That's some pretty impressive commercialism right there. Charging fans €19 to NOT attend games! Jesus!
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 28, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
Why would somebody tell Troy Deeney that they hope his son gets Coronavirus?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 10:40:31 AM
Post by: eamonn on May 28, 2020, 10:57:16 AM
Post by: Ad@m on May 28, 2020, 10:59:33 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fan driven venture.Maybe we can use the e-voucher to buy a cardboard cutout of ourselves for the crowd, as they did in Germany, I think people paid €19.
That's some pretty impressive commercialism right there. Charging fans €19 to NOT attend games! Jesus!
In fairness, during the Lambert years I'd have probably paid €19 to have a cardboard cut out take my place at games!
Post by: john e on May 28, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
Maybe we can use the e-voucher to buy a cardboard cutout of ourselves for the crowd, as they did in Germany, I think people paid €19.
That's some pretty impressive commercialism right there. Charging fans €19 to NOT attend games! Jesus!
It's outrageous
But I would defo be getting one if I could
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 28, 2020, 02:12:28 PM
Maybe we can use the e-voucher to buy a cardboard cutout of ourselves for the crowd, as they did in Germany, I think people paid €19.
That's some pretty impressive commercialism right there. Charging fans €19 to NOT attend games! Jesus!
It's outrageous
But I would defo be getting one if I could
Maybe charge more for you to have a cardboard cut out at a category A game like Man U.
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 02:41:19 PM
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
Post by: Risso on May 28, 2020, 02:48:03 PM
Telegraph reckon majority keen to restart 19/20th June, with our game against Sheff Utd possibly played a few days before.
So 10 games to play in 5 or 6 weeks, after months out, and with coronavirus still a thing. Great.
Post by: sid1964 on May 28, 2020, 02:53:43 PM
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 02:55:05 PM
Telegraph reckon majority keen to restart 19/20th June, with our game against Sheff Utd possibly played a few days before.
So 10 games to play in 5 or 6 weeks, after months out, and with coronavirus still a thing. Great.
No cricket before August 1st.
Money.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 28, 2020, 02:56:59 PM
Again to our disadvantage.Probably not much more so than our relegation rivals?
Post by: chrisw1 on May 28, 2020, 02:59:17 PM
Well yes, and probably the very existence of some clubs.Telegraph reckon majority keen to restart 19/20th June, with our game against Sheff Utd possibly played a few days before.
So 10 games to play in 5 or 6 weeks, after months out, and with coronavirus still a thing. Great.
No cricket before August 1st.
Money.
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 03:00:30 PM
Well yes, and probably the very existence of some clubs.Telegraph reckon majority keen to restart 19/20th June, with our game against Sheff Utd possibly played a few days before.
So 10 games to play in 5 or 6 weeks, after months out, and with coronavirus still a thing. Great.
No cricket before August 1st.
Money.
Premier League clubs?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 03:03:13 PM
i suppose every team will be in the same situation
Some have 9 games.
Post by: Towser on May 28, 2020, 03:04:44 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 28, 2020, 03:11:48 PM
Very possibly, didn't the likes of Bournmouth and Watford say they would struggle to survive? I thought I'd heard something along those lines anyway.Well yes, and probably the very existence of some clubs.Telegraph reckon majority keen to restart 19/20th June, with our game against Sheff Utd possibly played a few days before.
So 10 games to play in 5 or 6 weeks, after months out, and with coronavirus still a thing. Great.
No cricket before August 1st.
Money.
Premier League clubs?
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
This surely has to be nonsense?
Post by: Smithy on May 28, 2020, 03:18:55 PM
BREAKING: The Premier League will restart on June 17th with Aston Villa at home to Sheffield United and Manchester City at home to Arsenal.
A friend of mine who works in a senior role at the football league (not the premier league) told me two weeks ago that the first games would be us vs Sheff Utd, and Man City vs Arsenal. He claimed it was because as soon as everyone is on the same number of games, they'll feel much more comfortable 'ending' the season, without the pressure of having to get everyone level.
I told him to stop indulging in conspiracies.
I can't help but think it's an absolute must-win, which is a pain, as they could get into a European place if they win, so will be VERY motivated. I would much prefer such a potentially important game to be against someone with nothing to play for.
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 03:19:00 PM
It doesn't say where the games are to be played - isn't it down to each individual police force to give it the ok?
Also, what happens if teams suffer with players availability if the are forced to self isolate? Do teams play youth team players?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 03:23:00 PM
The integrity of the competition is compromised, and 3 teams are going to suffer and will feel rightly miffed once they are relegated.
It doesn't say where the games are to be played - isn't it down to each individual police force to give it the ok?
Also, what happens if teams suffer with players availability if the are forced to self isolate? Do teams play youth team players?
They don’t care. They just want to finish their season.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 03:27:33 PM
Post by: kieron on May 28, 2020, 03:32:30 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 28, 2020, 03:33:32 PM
BREAKING: The Premier League will restart on June 17th with Aston Villa at home to Sheffield United and Manchester City at home to Arsenal.
A friend of mine who works in a senior role at the football league (not the premier league) told me two weeks ago that the first games would be us vs Sheff Utd, and Man City vs Arsenal. He claimed it was because as soon as everyone is on the same number of games, they'll feel much more comfortable 'ending' the season, without the pressure of having to get everyone level.
I told him to stop indulging in conspiracies.
I can't help but think it's an absolute must-win, which is a pain, as they could get into a European place if they win, so will be VERY motivated. I would much prefer such a potentially important game to be against someone with nothing to play for.
Assuming the Telegraph story is correct, the straw that I'll be clutching to is the interruption of momentum for both Sheffield Utd and Villa (theirs great, ours terrible) might act as something of a leveller.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 03:36:59 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 28, 2020, 03:50:07 PM
Too early for a pre-match thread?!May give us a slight advantage in our second game as our players will be more up to speed and familiar with the process? Could well cause fatigue a little later on though.
Post by: Legion on May 28, 2020, 03:53:24 PM
BREAKING: The Premier League will restart on June 17th with Aston Villa at home to Sheffield United and Manchester City at home to Arsenal.
A friend of mine who works in a senior role at the football league (not the premier league) told me two weeks ago that the first games would be us vs Sheff Utd, and Man City vs Arsenal. He claimed it was because as soon as everyone is on the same number of games, they'll feel much more comfortable 'ending' the season, without the pressure of having to get everyone level.
I told him to stop indulging in conspiracies.
This would not surprise me in the slightest. Just win please, Villa.
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 03:56:58 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on May 28, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Seriously just win Villa.
hope you all keeping well
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Villan82 on May 28, 2020, 04:07:23 PM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 28, 2020, 04:17:27 PM
Serie A due to make a decision this week but looking at resumption in week of 13th-20th June.
Uk 2-3 weeks behind these countries re covid but the pl determined to start back just as early if not earlier. I wonder why?
Deflection/distraction tactics? It's all about the money, money and of course come what may lobscouse need to get their hands on that trophy.
Everyody will see this differently of course but imo it's just a faux football farce.
Post by: David_Nab on May 28, 2020, 04:25:36 PM
They absolutely hammered us , clear the whole game we never once got to grip with the over laps from the wing backs
On BBC they have a report about the German league and what's changed since its returned , the basics are home advantage eroded , ball in play longer and easier for teams to manage them selves on pitch as can hear each other.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 04:29:01 PM
Post by: CT on May 28, 2020, 04:39:22 PM
On paper prefer a game against Shef United over Chelsea to start , then watched this
They absolutely hammered us , clear the whole game we never once got to grip with the over laps from the wing backs
On BBC they have a report about the German league and what's changed since its returned , the basics are home advantage eroded , ball in play longer and easier for teams to manage them selves on pitch as can hear each other.
Yep, and it’s big for them too. They win and they’re in the CL places. If the league gets stopped, they’re in.
Post by: andyh on May 28, 2020, 04:41:18 PM
14:00?
Post by: dicedlam on May 28, 2020, 04:49:06 PM
Too early for a pre-match thread?!May give us a slight advantage in our second game as our players will be more up to speed and familiar with the process? Could well cause fatigue a little later on though.
Yes, but we are well into the summer by the 17th June and could be physically exhausted with the second game being only a couple of days later. We were never one of the fittest sides in the league prior to the lockdown, so I am not filled with confidence that our fitness levels have improved over the last 12 weeks or so. The first game with be like a pre-season game so we can only hope it will also have the same effect on Sheffield Utd.
Post by: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 28, 2020, 05:16:49 PM
A minutes silence for the hundreds of thousands who have died already would seem the least to expect.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 28, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
It’ll be interesting to see the kick off time given 17th is a Wednesday.
14:00?
The evening kick offs are 6 and 8PM, so one of them. Weekend games kick off at 12, 2, 4, 6 and 8.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 05:49:32 PM
Post by: Des Little on May 28, 2020, 05:51:19 PM
Post by: Dave P on May 28, 2020, 05:52:06 PM
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 05:53:39 PM
Are fixtures from 20th June going in the order they should have been played I.e. will we have Chelsea at home?
And what is “home”?
Post by: andyh on May 28, 2020, 05:59:17 PM
The Villa way will be to lose this then the league gets binned the next morning.It is written.
Probably 😉
Post by: Nev on May 28, 2020, 06:07:08 PM
Post by: CT on May 28, 2020, 06:09:04 PM
Erm, according to something I've seen the games will not be free to air but broadcast via Sky and BT. Pubs are closed, grounds are closed, you can't (or should I say not supposed to) gather in houses so if you want to watch the game you only really have one option...
...have a little walk up Aston Hall. For exercise obviously.
Post by: Richard E on May 28, 2020, 06:11:02 PM
The Villa way will be to lose this then the league gets binned the next morning.
And lose in an annoying way - a defensive howler, an own goal or an outrageously wrong refereeing decision.
Post by: David_Nab on May 28, 2020, 06:17:47 PM
Erm, according to something I've seen the games will not be free to air but broadcast via Sky and BT. Pubs are closed, grounds are closed, you can't (or should I say not supposed to) gather in houses so if you want to watch the game you only really have one option...
All 92 games shown live , BBC get a grand total of 4
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 06:23:35 PM
There was a story a while back inferring that some free to air games were a condition of football’s return.
Post by: andyh on May 28, 2020, 06:24:54 PM
Are any of those 4 Liverpool games by any chance?Erm, according to something I've seen the games will not be free to air but broadcast via Sky and BT. Pubs are closed, grounds are closed, you can't (or should I say not supposed to) gather in houses so if you want to watch the game you only really have one option...
All 92 games shown live , BBC get a grand total of 4
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 28, 2020, 06:54:55 PM
Erm, according to something I've seen the games will not be free to air but broadcast via Sky and BT. Pubs are closed, grounds are closed, you can't (or should I say not supposed to) gather in houses so if you want to watch the game you only really have one option...
All 92 games shown live , BBC get a grand total of 4
Games that are not free to air will inevitably result in groups of people meeting at one persons house who has the game. This will result in increased infection rates and increased deaths. I have absolutely no idea if it could be one death, dozens, or hundreds but there will definetely be some.
What do we consider an acceptable number of deaths in order to protect the profits of sports broadcasters ?
**I will qualify the above with this- 25 games on Sky are going to be free to air**
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11996210/sky-sports-to-show-64-live-premier-league-games-with-25-free-to-air
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 06:59:59 PM
Post by: Legion on May 28, 2020, 07:02:44 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 28, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
Post by: Des Little on May 28, 2020, 07:07:40 PM
The Villa way will be to lose this then the league gets binned the next morning.
And lose in an annoying way - a defensive howler, an own goal or an outrageously wrong refereeing decision.
...from K Friend
Post by: john e on May 28, 2020, 07:11:32 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on May 28, 2020, 07:12:45 PM
Post by: wince on May 28, 2020, 07:22:51 PM
Nobody is forcing people to gather together to watch football, if they do when they are not supposed to its their responsibility
No, they are not. But they will. Either way play or not we are relegated as no way we will be able to turn around our form
Post by: devilla on May 28, 2020, 07:42:24 PM
Nobody is forcing people to gather together to watch football, if they do when they are not supposed to its their responsibility
No, they are not. But they will. Either way play or not we are relegated as no way we will be able to turn around our form
That's the spirit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 07:55:02 PM
Nobody is forcing people to gather together to watch football, if they do when they are not supposed to its their responsibility
Of course it is, but it’s dangling an unnecessary carrot to people who might not be sensible enough and their actions could have consequences for others.
Post by: wince on May 28, 2020, 08:26:37 PM
Nobody is forcing people to gather together to watch football, if they do when they are not supposed to its their responsibility
No, they are not. But they will. Either way play or not we are relegated as no way we will be able to turn around our form
That's the spirit.
What other spirit is there? Season should have rolled over into next year. I want my team to do well but playing, ppg, ending the season only leads to us being in the schtuck.
Post by: paul_e on May 28, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
Nobody is forcing people to gather together to watch football, if they do when they are not supposed to its their responsibility
No, they are not. But they will. Either way play or not we are relegated as no way we will be able to turn around our form
That's the spirit.
What other spirit is there? Season should have rolled over into next year. I want my team to do well but playing, ppg, ending the season only leads to us being in the schtuck.
How about win the first game and then we just need to match points with the teams around us for however many rounds they play out. We're playing Sheffield United not some unbeatable galaticos. I'm not saying that they're a bad team, just that any Villa fan who can't even entertain the idea of us winning this one should probably not be left alone much.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2020, 08:41:37 PM
Post by: aev on May 28, 2020, 08:47:06 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 28, 2020, 09:06:07 PM
I think the form book is out the window. The issue is will Smith have worked out a way to stop our midfield parting like the Red Sea. If he don’t fix that we are down.Nobody is forcing people to gather together to watch football, if they do when they are not supposed to its their responsibility
No, they are not. But they will. Either way play or not we are relegated as no way we will be able to turn around our form
Post by: Legion on May 28, 2020, 09:07:13 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 28, 2020, 09:12:18 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 28, 2020, 09:34:25 PM
Post by: Richard E on May 28, 2020, 09:36:14 PM
Will we be at an advantage or disadvantage against Chelsea having played on the Wednesday?
Yes.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 28, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
As important as winning against Sheffield United is, it's also incredibly important that we get a decent looking result on that first weekend round too. Logically, they will not stop the season between the Wednesday and the weekend no matter how bad the figures - they will have to have risen to such an extent in the weeks preceding that it prohibits any football that week. But it is possible that they might play one round after our game in hand and have to stop afterwards. To my mind, we've got two games to win.
Fantastic. So if we could do well in just two games and then have plenty of deaths at just the right time we could stay up !
Post by: curiousorange on May 28, 2020, 09:42:19 PM
Post by: curiousorange on May 28, 2020, 09:43:26 PM
As important as winning against Sheffield United is, it's also incredibly important that we get a decent looking result on that first weekend round too. Logically, they will not stop the season between the Wednesday and the weekend no matter how bad the figures - they will have to have risen to such an extent in the weeks preceding that it prohibits any football that week. But it is possible that they might play one round after our game in hand and have to stop afterwards. To my mind, we've got two games to win.
Fantastic. So if we could do well in just two games and then have plenty of deaths at just the right time we could stay up !
Well yeah, ignoring all the horror and stuff...
Post by: rougegorge on May 29, 2020, 12:04:09 AM
Also, I read that some players who were better in training and practice, but maybe less so with the pressure of a crowd, were coming to the fore.
Well, our away form certainly needs improvement and maybe we have some training superstars up our sleeves. I think we’ll need both to happen in order to stay up.
Post by: wince on May 29, 2020, 01:59:16 AM
Nobody is forcing people to gather together to watch football, if they do when they are not supposed to its their responsibility
No, they are not. But they will. Either way play or not we are relegated as no way we will be able to turn around our form
That's the spirit.
What other spirit is there? Season should have rolled over into next year. I want my team to do well but playing, ppg, ending the season only leads to us being in the schtuck.
How about win the first game and then we just need to match points with the teams around us for however many rounds they play out. We're playing Sheffield United not some unbeatable galaticos. I'm not saying that they're a bad team, just that any Villa fan who can't even entertain the idea of us winning this one should probably not be left alone much.
I just don’t see us amounting to much given our form. I hope I am wrong
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 29, 2020, 02:11:52 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 29, 2020, 02:30:49 AM
Post by: sid1964 on May 29, 2020, 06:22:37 AM
Tough game against Sheffield Utd to start with.
I think if we play our 10 remaining games we may get 12 points - don't know if that will be enough?
Post by: curiousorange on May 29, 2020, 08:28:21 AM
Post by: AV82EC on May 29, 2020, 08:34:38 AM
Have they said yet which neutral grounds we’ll be using?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 29, 2020, 08:41:56 AM
We won't have played for three months - we haven't got any form.
We might not have, but you can bet every other team will have spent the time honing their skills. Every team we have to play is already at Pep-Barca levels, and all the ones we don't but we're relying on results from are already on the beach. Fact. Sorry, FACT.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 29, 2020, 08:52:40 AM
I'd have preferred a void but only the basis we avoid relegation. Now it looks like a restart is inevitable I'm massively interested to see how we do. I'm hoping the return of McGinn will be huge, Smith will have kept the players motivated, we will have decided to actually try to defend corners, that Grealish will drag us through kicking and screaming, Sheffield will be less prepared than us and the off period will have broken their stride, that Chelsea will be undercooked and under motivated...
I'm just looking forward to watching the Villa.
As for people gathering to watch games or visiting their frail granny in protest because some bellend drove his family from one isolated house to another - isn't it time that people started to take some responsibility for themselves rather than constantly blaming others?
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 29, 2020, 09:38:19 AM
As for the having no interest. It’s more the nature of it I find hollow, at least at the moment. Maybe I’ll feel differently when it all starts and obviously I want Villa to win. It’s just without the fans I expect the emotional weight to be taken out of it, and I think it’ll be kind of sterile. Hope I’m wrong.
Post by: Ads on May 29, 2020, 09:42:24 AM
Post by: mr underhill on May 29, 2020, 09:49:40 AM
Post by: LeeB on May 29, 2020, 09:49:55 AM
I'm excited. Then I remember I cannot go. But still excited, guess I'll just get to feel whats its like to be a Man United fan for 6 weeks.
Be sure to chat shit to your colleagues with top bants about their clubs which they actually follow and invest time and money into, whilst also showing a depth of knowledge about the game that suggests you've parroted what you read in the Metro on the bus that morning.
Post by: Chris Smith on May 29, 2020, 10:01:55 AM
You can also probably lay money on us finally beating Man U in the league at Villa Park when no bugger will be there to see it.
Post by: luke95 on May 29, 2020, 10:15:01 AM
Looks like 4 games on BBC and 25 games free to air on Sky.Has the FA Cup been written off for this season? Those 4 could be cup ties .
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 29, 2020, 10:30:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 29, 2020, 10:35:56 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 29, 2020, 10:45:46 AM
Hopefully in spite of my reservations about it we take to it like a duck to water and blaze through 6/7 wins.That would be so great. Get the pressure off really quickly, enjoy the end of the season. Sign Jack and John up to 10 year contracts, buy Gareth Bale...
Post by: leylandalbion on May 29, 2020, 10:47:58 AM
FA cup games now provisionally scheiduled for 27-28 june, semis mid july and final 1st august. We've still got Chelsea, Newcastle, and both United's to play who are involvedLooks like 4 games on BBC and 25 games free to air on Sky.Has the FA Cup been written off for this season? Those 4 could be cup ties .
Post by: Ad@m on May 29, 2020, 11:43:27 AM
Hopefully in spite of my reservations about it we take to it like a duck to water and blaze through 6/7 wins.
5 wins will be enough.
I could see us beating West Ham, Palace, Newcastle and Sheff Utd. 3 draws from the other six would see us safe...
Post by: DB on May 29, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Post by: aev on May 29, 2020, 12:38:25 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 29, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Track and tracing: What's the odds that Jack will get a call before a match saying he has to self isoloate from someone trying get him out of the team for 2 weeks...
El Ghazi has been self isolating for most of the season.
Post by: exigo on May 29, 2020, 12:43:54 PM
Manchester City v Liverpool
Manchester City v Newcastle
Manchester United v Sheffield United
Newcastle v Liverpool
Everton v Liverpool
The game in which Liverpool could secure the title
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 29, 2020, 12:51:38 PM
5 subs allowed, not sure this really benefits us.
Yes and no. Yeah, our best XI have been questionable, let alone those that should be able to replace them. But 5 subs means we could deploy more people tactically with shorter periods of time left at crucial points in critical games.
And can someone save me looking myself; 5 subs, is it still only 7 on the bench?
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 29, 2020, 01:06:55 PM
So, for instance, you could bring on two at once, then two at once, then one. If you bring on one, then another, then another, you wouldn't be able to make any more subs.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 29, 2020, 01:19:59 PM
Yeah five subs allowed out of seven, and you would only be able to make substitutions on three occasions.That's actually a good idea.
So, for instance, you could bring on two at once, then two at once, then one. If you bring on one, then another, then another, you wouldn't be able to make any more subs.
Post by: Damo70 on May 29, 2020, 01:22:58 PM
From Newcastle in thirteenth place all the way down to Norwich in 20th place the bottom eight were all in poor form when games were stopped. Ourselves being the worst. The form teams were Liverpool, Man City, Manure, Sheffield United, Arsenal and Palace.
Post by: john e on May 29, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
Post by: Towser on May 29, 2020, 01:58:24 PM
Quote
Alan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
Premier still to decide on how they finish and what they do about relegation if they can’t complete
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 29, 2020, 02:00:15 PM
Yeah five subs allowed out of seven, and you would only be able to make substitutions on three occasions.That's actually a good idea.
So, for instance, you could bring on two at once, then two at once, then one. If you bring on one, then another, then another, you wouldn't be able to make any more subs.
Yes, ten stops for substitutions would have been unbearably tedious.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 29, 2020, 02:06:27 PM
Yeah five subs allowed out of seven, and you would only be able to make substitutions on three occasions.
So, for instance, you could bring on two at once, then two at once, then one. If you bring on one, then another, then another, you wouldn't be able to make any more subs.
In my crueller moments, I see a former manager of ours making 5 at once.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 29, 2020, 02:11:15 PM
Alan Nixon on TwitterQuoteAlan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
Premier still to decide on how they finish and what they do about relegation if they can’t complete
That'll take some beating to not be the least surprising thing I hear today.
Post by: Damo70 on May 29, 2020, 02:24:33 PM
Six games rumoured to be moving to neutral venues:
Manchester City v Liverpool
Manchester City v Newcastle
Manchester United v Sheffield United
Newcastle v Liverpool
Everton v Liverpool
The game in which Liverpool could secure the title
If Liverpool don't hit the ground running from the restart the game in which they secure the title will be an ongoing saga. However they do only need two wins.
Post by: Rory on May 29, 2020, 03:08:03 PM
Six games rumoured to be moving to neutral venues:
Manchester City v Liverpool
Manchester City v Newcastle
Manchester United v Sheffield United
Newcastle v Liverpool
Everton v Liverpool
The game in which Liverpool could secure the title
If Liverpool don't hit the ground running from the restart the game in which they secure the title will be an ongoing saga. However they do only need two wins.
Given their lead, you can forgive some of the complacency, but after all the talk of 'when' and 'where' they'll lift the trophy, and how weird it'll be without fans, I will sincerely be hoping they lose every match and contrive to make a bollocks of it in glorious fashion.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 29, 2020, 03:11:10 PM
Imagine watching Watford make the most of that?Yeah five subs allowed out of seven, and you would only be able to make substitutions on three occasions.That's actually a good idea.
So, for instance, you could bring on two at once, then two at once, then one. If you bring on one, then another, then another, you wouldn't be able to make any more subs.
Yes, ten stops for substitutions would have been unbearably tedious.
Post by: devilla on May 29, 2020, 04:29:13 PM
Six games rumoured to be moving to neutral venues:
Manchester City v Liverpool
Manchester City v Newcastle
Manchester United v Sheffield United
Newcastle v Liverpool
Everton v Liverpool
The game in which Liverpool could secure the title
If Liverpool don't hit the ground running from the restart the game in which they secure the title will be an ongoing saga. However they do only need two wins.
Given their lead, you can forgive some of the complacency, but after all the talk of 'when' and 'where' they'll lift the trophy, and how weird it'll be without fans, I will sincerely be hoping they lose every match and contrive to make a bollocks of it in glorious fashion.
Agreed, that would be wonderful.
Post by: Damo70 on May 29, 2020, 04:37:37 PM
I'm presuming the FA cup final will be played behind closed doors
They will have to change the words of the cup final hymn to "Abide With Nobody".
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 29, 2020, 04:50:45 PM
However standing outside neutral venues and away games sound like a good day out and a sing song.
Neutral grounds if we are moved from VP...."You're supposed, you're supposed, you're supposed to be at home! "
Away games...."Shit support/ Empty seats M'Lud!"
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 29, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
I'm presuming the FA cup final will be played behind closed doors
They could play it overseas in a country which is officially coronavirus free and just happens to have one of the biggest football stadiums in the world,
Post by: john e on May 29, 2020, 05:58:17 PM
I'm presuming the FA cup final will be played behind closed doors
They could play it overseas in a country which is officially coronavirus free and just happens to have one of the biggest football stadiums in the world,
don’t give them ideas mate
Post by: CT on May 29, 2020, 06:35:11 PM
Imagine watching Watford make the most of that?Yeah five subs allowed out of seven, and you would only be able to make substitutions on three occasions.That's actually a good idea.
So, for instance, you could bring on two at once, then two at once, then one. If you bring on one, then another, then another, you wouldn't be able to make any more subs.
Yes, ten stops for substitutions would have been unbearably tedious.
Watford games wouldn’t finish until the next morning.
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on May 29, 2020, 07:05:37 PM
If we do stay up we need to bin the manager and Suso and try something else.
Post by: LeeB on May 29, 2020, 07:21:37 PM
Post by: steamer on May 29, 2020, 07:29:37 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 29, 2020, 07:56:27 PM
Post by: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:33:48 PM
Yeah five subs allowed out of seven, and you would only be able to make substitutions on three occasions.That's actually a good idea.
So, for instance, you could bring on two at once, then two at once, then one. If you bring on one, then another, then another, you wouldn't be able to make any more subs.
For some time now I've been advocating (to my brother and the man in the pub) the five subs option from the same amount of maximum stoppages as now - three. Having more unused subs than actual ones used in a match day squad of 18 (11 in internationals I think?) always struck me as a bit silly.
Post by: Damo70 on May 29, 2020, 10:31:39 PM
Sheff U 11/8
Draw 12/5
Relegation Odds -
Norwich 1/10
Villa 2/5
Bournemouth 5/6
West Ham 7/4
Watford 9/4
Brighton 11/4
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on May 30, 2020, 12:13:48 AM
Villa 2/1
Sheff U 11/8
Draw 12/5
Relegation Odds -
Norwich 1/10
Villa 2/5
Bournemouth 5/6
West Ham 7/4
Watford 9/4
Brighton 11/4
Any chance that you have backed us to go down Damo? 😉
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 30, 2020, 12:21:19 AM
Any chance that you have backed us to go down Damo? 😉
I too hope so given his track record. ;)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2020, 12:45:24 AM
Post by: Pete3206 on May 30, 2020, 01:36:33 AM
Post by: Nev on May 30, 2020, 08:33:23 AM
Despite the veneer of noble intention, the EPL restarting is about money and nothing else at all. Now I don't have any issue with Football being played again under the necessary conditions that are dictated by concern for public health but to call it the same season is a fallacy worthy of the current Governments paper thin defence of Cummings. Before you mention the unnatural break in proceedings you have the new subs rule, removal of the hated VAR, continued consideration for neutral venues and players genuinely reticent to play the game at all.
We are supposed to be grateful for a few free to air games while the subscription services have a virtual monopoly with pubs closed and gatherings at properties outlawed.
And what of the other leagues, PPG'd or void with all the respect you would expect from people who just could not give a flying fuck about anything other than cash.
Money has long poisoned our game but never to the extent that we are expected to swallow the complete change of the definition of a season.
Of course I will follow our progress but certainly with less enthusiasm and whatever our fate, to try and tell me that this is the same season is utter nonsense and proof that business comes first and sport comes a long way behind.
Post by: Rory on May 30, 2020, 09:13:29 AM
Post by: nevillain on May 30, 2020, 01:51:51 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 30, 2020, 01:58:39 PM
Any chance that you have backed us to go down Damo? 😉
I too hope so given his track record. ;)
Certainly more reliable than the Orange Dot.
Post by: Damo70 on May 30, 2020, 02:34:17 PM
Post by: exigo on May 30, 2020, 02:53:40 PM
Wonder if we'll see a few additional touches at Villa Park too, to try and create some more home advantage. The owners dipped their hands in their deep pockets last summer to give the Villa Park exterior a spruce-up, so maybe they'll do some more now.
Pretty straightforward to get the WE ARE VILLA banner hanging from the Holte End roof again I would imagine. And the big screens would be easy to use in some way. Perhaps a surprise or two still to come.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 30, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on May 30, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
It has been more of a mid season break than anything.
By the time it starts again, the break will have been longer than the usual break between one season and the next.
All of the talk about starting playing again being uplifting for fans, I think many fans get a lift in the summer thinking about the next season. They have gone through a season of not achieving what they thought they would or have had a far better season than they thought and they are all excited about the next season with new players coming in and how they are going to improve (the usual unfulfilled dreams).
What about this year, next season will be rushed through after completing this one, the transfer market will be like the January one and no chance of going to watch a few friendly matches at new grounds or overseas for some. What of the teams that get relegated. They will have no time to prepare for next season. So many players usually come and go in the summer for newly relegated teams. Trying to prepare for the playing side of things will be next to impossible, to the point of possibly writing off the first quarter of the season. The only balancing factor I can see is that many clubs in the division that a relegated club will be going into will be cutting players at the ends of contracts and limiting expensive loan deals due to the financial mess. On top of this, there is very little time to reach agreement on how next season is to be organised.
I was all for finishing the season by playing out the games but in a reasonable timescale so that there would be a sufficient break between this season and next so that finances could be sorted. This has not happened and once they could see it could not be completed by the end of June, the season should have been cancelled. I think prolonging the season will lead to more clubs going into financial difficulties than if the season had been cancelled and a financial agreement reached with the broadcasters. Of course, in the interests of Aston Villa, I was very keen on the season being cancelled by pushing this limited extension of the season and then fighting it out for no relegation.
I for one, will not be interested in the remaining games, other from a result point of view. The matches will be played out in a sterile way that I cannot drum up any excitement for. Without the virus pandemic, I would be sitting here today thinking about next season with some excitement of what might be, regardless of whether we were still in the Premier League or starting afresh in the Championship.
Post by: old man villa fan on May 30, 2020, 03:27:03 PM
Wonder if we'll see a few additional touches at Villa Park too, to try and create some more home advantage. And the big screens would be easy to use in some way. Perhaps a surprise or two still to come.
How about not cleaning the Away dressing room between matches, a sign on the door saying "Away Dressing Room sponsored by the Co-op" and playing some 1970s chanting over the speaker system. Things like "You're going home in a f****** ambulance". That might give us a bit of an advantage. Apologies in advance for the dark humour if it offends anybody.
Post by: brian green on May 30, 2020, 03:37:53 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 30, 2020, 03:53:48 PM
My position on football has been relatively consistent until now, it's a sport that has developed into entertainment and therefore a business of sorts, but, it remained ostensibly a sport. From 40k at Villa Park to next to no-one at Moor Lane, the game was the same but with the resumption of the "season" that is no longer the case.Sports all round the world are looking at ways of restarting but of course football remains the big evil.
Despite the veneer of noble intention, the EPL restarting is about money and nothing else at all. Now I don't have any issue with Football being played again under the necessary conditions that are dictated by concern for public health but to call it the same season is a fallacy worthy of the current Governments paper thin defence of Cummings. Before you mention the unnatural break in proceedings you have the new subs rule, removal of the hated VAR, continued consideration for neutral venues and players genuinely reticent to play the game at all.
We are supposed to be grateful for a few free to air games while the subscription services have a virtual monopoly with pubs closed and gatherings at properties outlawed.
And what of the other leagues, PPG'd or void with all the respect you would expect from people who just could not give a flying fuck about anything other than cash.
Money has long poisoned our game but never to the extent that we are expected to swallow the complete change of the definition of a season.
Of course I will follow our progress but certainly with less enthusiasm and whatever our fate, to try and tell me that this is the same season is utter nonsense and proof that business comes first and sport comes a long way behind.
Of course finishing the season under these circumstances isn't ideal, but no soulution was ever going to be perfect. This is probably the most fair and most authentic of all the potential options - certainly more so than PPG or voiding the season.
We're unfortunate that we have lost true home advantage on more occaisions than any other team. But equally we were in free fall and the break couldn't have come at a better time for us. Surely we have more chance of beating Shefield now than we would have had eight weeks ago?
If we go down we'll always feel a hard done by, but we have the same opportunity as every other team to get our act into gear and earn survival. If we fail to do that then not withstanding the freak circumstances we will have earned our relegation.
Post by: Legion on May 30, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2020, 04:06:11 PM
Wouldn't you go to hospital in an ambulance as opposed to home?It was "red cross ambulance", which I'm sure would drop you home if you asked nicely.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 30, 2020, 06:25:35 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
I always remember it as a St Johns ambulance.
Sorry, yeah, that's who I meant.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2020, 07:19:33 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 30, 2020, 07:40:12 PM
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 30, 2020, 08:09:02 PM
The Government has effectively removed lockdown for political expedience and football is back for political and ££ reasons sending completely the wrong message to young men and women who are itching to play (which will put them and their families at risk). This country.
Post by: Legion on May 30, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
Post by: Ad@m on May 30, 2020, 08:15:32 PM
A third of games free to watch, then. Well, so says my covid group. I thought the beeb only had 4. I assume these will be free to watch if you already pay for whatever non-sport platform they'll show them on. Is there a BT equivalent to Sky one?
Sky are broadcasting 25 games for free on their Pick channel which is Freeview channel 11 I think.
Post by: spangley1812 on May 30, 2020, 08:46:25 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on May 30, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Ten people from eight clubs in Championship and seven from three clubs in League Two test positive
Post by: Villan82 on May 30, 2020, 09:20:27 PM
No vaccine, a half cocked contact tracing system and because of this a risk of a massive second spike.
The Government has effectively removed lockdown for political expedience and football is back for political and ££ reasons sending completely the wrong message to young men and women who are itching to play (which will put them and their families at risk). This country.
And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.
Post by: OzVilla on May 30, 2020, 11:46:52 PM
The fact is it is coming back and mindset is going to be the difference in many respects to whether we stay up or not. Really not loving what I’ve heard so far. Look at Norwood at Sheffield Utd saying they’d be ready to play tomorrow and that they all surpassed their fitness test results on their return to training in comparison to return for the last pre season. They are bang up for it, we need to be too.
Post by: Pete3206 on May 31, 2020, 01:31:02 AM
Having read through some quotes from AEG, Mings, Targett this week we don’t seem to be fully 100% into this season restarting. We seem quite negative whether it’s complaining about having to wash their own stuff to how poor their fitness is to questioning why they are back.
The fact is it is coming back and mindset is going to be the difference in many respects to whether we stay up or not. Really not loving what I’ve heard so far. Look at Norwood at Sheffield Utd saying they’d be ready to play tomorrow and that they all surpassed their fitness test results on their return to training in comparison to return for the last pre season. They are bang up for it, we need to be too.
Perhaps they're on the same wavelength as markeeeebeeee2005. I certainly echo those comments.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 09:13:21 AM
So what is our population and population density compared to the average European Country, as surely without that info the stat is meaningless?No vaccine, a half cocked contact tracing system and because of this a risk of a massive second spike.
The Government has effectively removed lockdown for political expedience and football is back for political and ££ reasons sending completely the wrong message to young men and women who are itching to play (which will put them and their families at risk). This country.
And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 31, 2020, 09:28:26 AM
Post by: Ad@m on May 31, 2020, 09:39:08 AM
Post by: spangley1812 on May 31, 2020, 09:43:05 AM
I'm pretty sure our population isn't 10 times that of Germany, Italy, France, Spain, et al.
The demographic of each country is completely different
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 09:49:46 AM
"meaningless" with or without a question mark is not a word I would chose to use no matter how many deaths are recorded in this country or any other for that matter.As a statistic it is surely meaningless to compare, for example, the amount of deaths in England vs Andorra?
Nobody is saying the deaths are meaningless, it is the statistic that has no value.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 09:58:03 AM
I'm pretty sure our population isn't 10 times that of Germany, Italy, France, Spain, et al.So you're saying our deaths are 10 x Italy and Spain?
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 31, 2020, 10:03:20 AM
You chose the words you do, all I'm saying is I would choose different words when talking about deaths.
The uk government has given up on comparing death rate figures with those of other countries anyway, so it's a moot point.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 10:06:33 AM
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 31, 2020, 10:07:05 AM
The football season is restarting but it just doesn't feel right, the fact that when the whistle blows to start these games people will be dying and as the country goes into a very dangerous couple of weeks its distinctly possible we get a second spike, hell they are even talking about a third spike. Worth remembering as we speak on here there are nearly 1600 people in intensive care, 8,000 new infections each day, personally I am amazed the season has been re started, I can well understand player concern.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 10:14:09 AM
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 31, 2020, 10:20:38 AM
Get your point though.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 31, 2020, 10:38:42 AM
The poster may or may not have a point regarding the stats, but there are certainly better ways of expressing that point instead of using words like "meaningless" in the same sentence as "deaths".
Any death is obviously emotive, certainly to the family and friends griefing, but in these strange times when there are so many deaths it is emotive to everybody, so choosing words carefully is very important.
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 10:39:52 AM
So what is our population and population density compared to the average European Country, as surely without that info the stat is meaningless?No vaccine, a half cocked contact tracing system and because of this a risk of a massive second spike.
The Government has effectively removed lockdown for political expedience and football is back for political and ££ reasons sending completely the wrong message to young men and women who are itching to play (which will put them and their families at risk). This country.
And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.
Put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig.
‘The UK had the fourth highest population density (266 people per square kilometre) of the EU countries in 2014, and was most similar to Germany (227 people per sq km).‘
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/ukperspectives2016theukinaeuropeancontext/2016-05-26.
Belgium, Netherlands and Malta all have higher population density than us, but much fewer deaths. As of the 30 May they had a combined 15381 deaths and we had 38161.
Let’s add in the amount of German (the next most densely populated) deaths to the other three countries. It still only gets you to 23,870 deaths.
The UK has a population of about 67 million, Germany about 83 million.
Your argument doesn’t come close to stacking up.
Post by: BoVillan esq on May 31, 2020, 10:40:48 AM
You've got it BoVillan when you talk about the "emotional side"
The poster may or may not have a point regarding the stats, but there are certainly better ways of expressing that point instead of using words like "meaningless" in the same sentence as "deaths".
Any death is obviously emotive, certainly to the family and friends griefing, but in these strange times when there are so many deaths it is emotive to everybody, so choosing words carefully is very important.
Indeed.
Post by: The Edge on May 31, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 11:02:23 AM
As soon as they restart football and it's shown on tv it will signal the end of lockdown. For instance how can anyone have a go at kids for playing football in a park when they can watch it on tv? Time will tell if it's safe or not but for me it's an unnecessary gamble which is purely motivated by money.
This is the point. They might be able to keep the footballers and their families safe, but it is the screw everybody else signal of the whole thing.
Today I have seen a group of about 16 lads playing football where I exercise. They might or might not follow the scientific papers, but I bet they know the Premier League has been told it can restart. I live in quite a mixed area as far as socio demographics are concerned. I’d bet these lads have family members in at risk groups.
Post by: Villan82 on May 31, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
So what is our population and population density compared to the average European Country, as surely without that info the stat is meaningless?No vaccine, a half cocked contact tracing system and because of this a risk of a massive second spike.
The Government has effectively removed lockdown for political expedience and football is back for political and ££ reasons sending completely the wrong message to young men and women who are itching to play (which will put them and their families at risk). This country.
And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.
Two days ago. UK had 324 deaths, Germany 24 deaths, Sweden 84 deaths, France 52 deaths, Holland 28 deaths.
Anything else?
Post by: Zouch Villa on May 31, 2020, 12:03:31 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52866678
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
I didn't make any argument, I just said the stats as quoted were meaningless.So what is our population and population density compared to the average European Country, as surely without that info the stat is meaningless?No vaccine, a half cocked contact tracing system and because of this a risk of a massive second spike.
The Government has effectively removed lockdown for political expedience and football is back for political and ££ reasons sending completely the wrong message to young men and women who are itching to play (which will put them and their families at risk). This country.
And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.
Put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig.
‘The UK had the fourth highest population density (266 people per square kilometre) of the EU countries in 2014, and was most similar to Germany (227 people per sq km).‘
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/ukperspectives2016theukinaeuropeancontext/2016-05-26.
Belgium, Netherlands and Malta all have higher population density than us, but much fewer deaths. As of the 30 May they had a combined 15381 deaths and we had 38161.
Let’s add in the amount of German (the next most densely populated) deaths to the other three countries. It still only gets you to 23,870 deaths.
The UK has a population of about 67 million, Germany about 83 million.
Your argument doesn’t come close to stacking up.
Everybody knows Germany has very low figures. Comparing us to them whilst ignoring Italy and Spain is cherry picking.
I've never made an argument that the crisis has been handled particularly well, but stating our deaths are 10 x the European average is clearly twisting emotive stats for the sake of it.
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
I didn't make any argument, I just said the stats as quoted were meaningless.So what is our population and population density compared to the average European Country, as surely without that info the stat is meaningless?No vaccine, a half cocked contact tracing system and because of this a risk of a massive second spike.
The Government has effectively removed lockdown for political expedience and football is back for political and ££ reasons sending completely the wrong message to young men and women who are itching to play (which will put them and their families at risk). This country.
And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.
Put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig.
‘The UK had the fourth highest population density (266 people per square kilometre) of the EU countries in 2014, and was most similar to Germany (227 people per sq km).‘
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/ukperspectives2016theukinaeuropeancontext/2016-05-26.
Belgium, Netherlands and Malta all have higher population density than us, but much fewer deaths. As of the 30 May they had a combined 15381 deaths and we had 38161.
Let’s add in the amount of German (the next most densely populated) deaths to the other three countries. It still only gets you to 23,870 deaths.
The UK has a population of about 67 million, Germany about 83 million.
Your argument doesn’t come close to stacking up.
Everybody knows Germany has very low figures. Comparing us to them whilst ignoring Italy and Spain is cherry picking.
I've never made an argument that the crisis has been handled particularly well, but stating our deaths are 10 x the European average is clearly twisting emotive stats for the sake of it.
You said. ‘So what is our population and population density compared to the average European Country, as surely without that info the stat is meaningless?’
I picked the top 5 most densely populated countries in the EU of which we are number 4 to respond to that point. The point you are making doesn’t stack up.
Not sure if you have been taken in by the Government rhetoric or have misread the stats?
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
‘I had to ration how many family members could attend another patients end of life just this week. The pandemic is not over, and the brazenness of people just not giving a hoot is a slap in the face.’
Is getting football back helping with the messaging that we need to be really really careful to protect each other and the NHS? The answer has to be a resounding NO.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 01:58:58 PM
You said ‘So what is our population and population density compared to the average European Country, as surely without that info the stat is meaningless?’. I shared with you a link to our population density compared with the other EU countries. We are number 4. I compared our deaths to the top 5, some have a bigger population size, others smaller. What was being said is the opposite of ‘meaningless.’
It’s appalling and it’s still happening.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 02:02:46 PM
Spain - 58
UK - 56.3
Italy - 54.7
Netherlands - death per 100,000 - 34.1
So how does this support the thrust of the initial stat thay UK deaths are 10 x the European average? We're not doing particulaly well and I've never said we are. But my point was that without the wider information the stat was meaningless - this hardly seems pariculalry controversial.
Malta has a total population of 493,000 so is not a relevant comparison
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 02:33:30 PM
This is from a FT article on the 28 May. https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0
‘The UK has suffered the second-highest rate of deaths from the
coronavirus pandemic after Spain, according to excess mortality figures.
The UK has registered 59,537 more deaths than usual since the week ending March 20, indicating that the virus has directly or indirectly killed 891 people per million.’
At least we’re not number one, eh?! Let’s get the footy back on.
Off to do some gardening as this is pointless now.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 02:44:45 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 31, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.
Quote from: chrisw1
I've never made an argument that the crisis has been handled particularly well, but stating our deaths are 10 x the European average is clearly twisting emotive stats for the sake of it.
But that is not what he said (I have snipped the rest). He's not referring to our deaths over the course of the virus, he's specifically referring to yesterday (or Friday whatever it is now).
He said yesterday we had approx 10 times as many deaths as 'the average European country'.
Here are the figures he was referring to:
Quote
Spain 2
Italy 87
Germany 24
France 52
Turkey 28
Belgium 42
Sweden 84
Portugal 14
Ireland 6
Poland 13
Romania 13
Hungary 8
UK 324
Total from the other 12 countries listed there - 373, average of 31.
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 03:06:11 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 31, 2020, 03:19:50 PM
Thanks Paulie - you make a fair point and yes I did miss that.And roughly 10 times as many deaths per day yesterday as the average European country.Quote from: chrisw1I've never made an argument that the crisis has been handled particularly well, but stating our deaths are 10 x the European average is clearly twisting emotive stats for the sake of it.
But that is not what he said (I have snipped the rest). He's not referring to our deaths over the course of the virus, he's specifically referring to yesterday (or Friday whatever it is now).
He said yesterday we had approx 10 times as many deaths as 'the average European country'.
Here are the figures he was referring to:QuoteSpain 2
Italy 87
Germany 24
France 52
Turkey 28
Belgium 42
Sweden 84
Portugal 14
Ireland 6
Poland 13
Romania 13
Hungary 8
UK 324
Total from the other 12 countries listed there - 373, average of 31.
Post by: brian green on May 31, 2020, 03:53:12 PM
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on May 31, 2020, 05:27:38 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on June 01, 2020, 10:55:12 AM
Post by: Hillbilly on June 01, 2020, 11:20:00 AM
Post by: Richard E on June 01, 2020, 01:34:31 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 01, 2020, 01:43:45 PM
I still haven't had an email yet about a refund or the other options on my season ticket.
Nor me. I have had an email telling me I'll be getting an email, though.
Post by: CT on June 01, 2020, 02:03:43 PM
I still haven't had an email yet about a refund or the other options on my season ticket.
Nor me. I have had an email telling me I'll be getting an email, though.
Nor me. I have asked them via Twitter and they said a FAQ email would be coming soon with links available for whichever choice you want to make.
Post by: Risso on June 01, 2020, 02:17:02 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 01, 2020, 02:43:54 PM
I finally got mine, and to be fair to the club, the actual refund arrived very shortly after. To be less fair to them, they calculated it as if the first two cup games which my contract clearly states are "free" and "at no extra cost" as if they were paid for, which is a bit cheeky.
To even that out, I don't suppose there's any chance they compensated for 4 of the remaining 6 games being Category A?
Post by: Damo70 on June 01, 2020, 03:26:29 PM
I always remember it as a St Johns ambulance.
Sorry, yeah, that's who I meant.
When a player was down injured back in the day the chant was "Your going home in a St John's ambulance". I do recall being on the Holte during an ambulance strike and hearing the chant changed to "Your going home in an army ambulance".
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 01, 2020, 08:49:50 PM
(https://www.amigeleken.hu/pictures/2020/meccskepek/DVTK-K%C3%B6vesd%202020.05.30/2020_05_30.%20dvtk-mezokovesd_4.jpg)
Post by: Ads on June 01, 2020, 09:14:03 PM
Post by: Mister E on June 01, 2020, 09:52:27 PM
"You're going home in a fucking ambulance" was the chant, back in the (rather messy) day.I always remember it as a St Johns ambulance.
Sorry, yeah, that's who I meant.
When a player was down injured back in the day the chant was "Your going home in a St John's ambulance". I do recall being on the Holte during an ambulance strike and hearing the chant changed to "Your going home in an army ambulance".
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 01, 2020, 10:29:50 PM
And to the same tune "you're gonna get your fucking heads kicked in"
Post by: usav on June 02, 2020, 12:10:50 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 02, 2020, 11:27:44 AM
I finally got mine, and to be fair to the club, the actual refund arrived very shortly after. To be less fair to them, they calculated it as if the first two cup games which my contract clearly states are "free" and "at no extra cost" as if they were paid for, which is a bit cheeky.Was it just a straight refund or credit for the same amount? No incentive to take the credit like enhanced value, future discount etc?
Post by: Damo70 on June 02, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Didn't the ambulance workers go on strike in the 80's or 90's and it was changed briefly to "you're going home in an army ambulance"? I actually thought that one rolled of the tongue better.
Regarding injured opposition players I actually remember The Holte singing three versions of the song to the same tune.
"Your going home in a St' John's ambulance" was the standard one.
"Your going home in an army ambulance" (sung during the ambulance strike).
Also the classic song during the heyday of Crossroads "Your going home like Sandy Richardson".*
*For those who don't know Sandy Richardson was a disabled character on Crossroads and not as one of my mates thought an old time Villa player who had once been badly injured.
Post by: Pete3206 on June 02, 2020, 02:19:48 PM
Post by: Des Little on June 02, 2020, 04:49:27 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 02, 2020, 08:30:43 PM
Quote
The Premier League has given clubs permission to play friendly matches, with strict restrictions, before the restart on 17 June.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52896129
Post by: steamer on June 03, 2020, 07:36:05 AM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on June 03, 2020, 11:55:36 AM
On our form at the time, I think we would have been dead and buried if the season had continued the way it was going. Grealish was running on empty, holes everywhere in the defense, keeper at sixes and sevens, crowd on the team's back, McGinn almost ready to come back but lacking match fitness, etc....
Sheffield Utd (H)
Chelsea (H)
Newcastle (A)
Wolves (H)
Liverpool (A)
Man Utd (H)
Crystal Palace (H)
Everton (A)
Arsenal (H)
West Ham (A)
I think this break will have done us the world of good. Players will have had time to gather themselves and recharge, management team will have had time to take stock of the situation (hopefully!), and hopefully we're in for the Jack and John Magic Show for the remaining 10 games!
UTV!
Post by: chrisw1 on June 03, 2020, 12:18:32 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 03, 2020, 12:20:00 PM
I expect Norwich to go down and the two that join them will likely be the two strugglers that are worst affected by players being unavailable due to Covid. Which is what makes the desperate rush to restart all the more ridiculous.
Post by: Risso on June 03, 2020, 01:14:28 PM
I finally got mine, and to be fair to the club, the actual refund arrived very shortly after. To be less fair to them, they calculated it as if the first two cup games which my contract clearly states are "free" and "at no extra cost" as if they were paid for, which is a bit cheeky.Was it just a straight refund or credit for the same amount? No incentive to take the credit like enhanced value, future discount etc?
Straight refund. I stated that it should be worked out as 6/19, but they've calculated it on 6/21. Just debating whether to take it any further, as I've had a lawyer friend look over the contract and she reckons they haven't got a leg to stand on.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 03, 2020, 01:30:44 PM
I think Sheffield United will probably benefit from the break more than any other team. They hardly rotate their team, have been very lucky with injuries and have a style that relies on hard work and pressing the opposition for ninety minutes. They were always likely to fade in the latter section of the season, but the break will have negated that possibility.The counterpoint is that Sheffield were in great form and the break may disrupt that. With that said I expect Wilder to have them right back at it.
I expect Norwich to go down and the two that join them will likely be the two strugglers that are worst affected by players being unavailable due to Covid. Which is what makes the desperate rush to restart all the more ridiculous.
As for the strugglers, I don't think many teams will be effected by Covid cases. I think it will just be down to which teams get up to speed the quickest both mentally and fitness wise.
Post by: OCD on June 03, 2020, 01:37:37 PM
I think Sheffield United will probably benefit from the break more than any other team. They hardly rotate their team, have been very lucky with injuries and have a style that relies on hard work and pressing the opposition for ninety minutes. They were always likely to fade in the latter section of the season, but the break will have negated that possibility.The counterpoint is that Sheffield were in great form and the break may disrupt that. With that said I expect Wilder to have them right back at it.
I expect Norwich to go down and the two that join them will likely be the two strugglers that are worst affected by players being unavailable due to Covid. Which is what makes the desperate rush to restart all the more ridiculous.
As for the strugglers, I don't think many teams will be effected by Covid cases. I think it will just be down to which teams get up to speed the quickest both mentally and fitness wise.
I don't think Deeney has started training with Watford has he? Them missing a player like him or at best, not being as fit as others, could be a big factor.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 03, 2020, 01:58:37 PM
Post by: Risso on June 03, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
I think Sheffield United will probably benefit from the break more than any other team. They hardly rotate their team, have been very lucky with injuries and have a style that relies on hard work and pressing the opposition for ninety minutes. They were always likely to fade in the latter section of the season, but the break will have negated that possibility.The counterpoint is that Sheffield were in great form and the break may disrupt that. With that said I expect Wilder to have them right back at it.
I expect Norwich to go down and the two that join them will likely be the two strugglers that are worst affected by players being unavailable due to Covid. Which is what makes the desperate rush to restart all the more ridiculous.
As for the strugglers, I don't think many teams will be effected by Covid cases. I think it will just be down to which teams get up to speed the quickest both mentally and fitness wise.
We've been pretty crap for most of the season, and I don't expect that to have magically changed. We've still got not much up front and no pace in midfield, and the fairly underwhelming choice of El Ghazi and Trezeguet on the wings. However, if McGinn can hit the ground running that may give us a fighting chance. We need to beat Sheffield United then not be as crap as the likes of Bournemouth, Watford and West Ham for the rest of the games.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 03, 2020, 02:43:02 PM
I'd take a draw in that game right now, would be a solid start and something to build on.
Post by: andyh on June 03, 2020, 03:06:12 PM
Post by: Towser on June 03, 2020, 03:13:48 PM
Post by: Towser on June 03, 2020, 03:24:18 PM
Post by: Damo70 on June 03, 2020, 03:40:08 PM
When the season was halted Liverpool, Man City, Manure, Sheff U, Wolves, Arsenal and Palace were the form teams over the previous five games.
As for the the stugglers form in their last five games -
Newcastle W1 D2 L2
Southampton W1 L4
Brighton D4 L1
West Ham W1 D1 L3
Watford W1 D1 L3
Bournemouth W1 D1 L3
Villa W1 L4
Norwich W1 D1 L3
Post by: Dave P on June 03, 2020, 04:12:00 PM
Post by: Dave P on June 03, 2020, 04:35:05 PM
One positive result in the prem and they would mean they miss the first round of fixtures at least. What are the odds it’s from us?
It's Tottenham. Phew!
Post by: Ad@m on June 03, 2020, 05:59:28 PM
Sky will put it on the free-to-air 'Pick' Channel and simulcast on Sky Sports. Pick is 159 on Sky and 144 on Freeview. 25 games on Sky will be free-to-air.
Pick is channel 144 on Freesat. It's channel 11 on Freeview.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 03, 2020, 08:36:18 PM
Fans will not need a Prime membership to watch fixtures on the online streaming service when the top-flight campaign resumes from 17 June.
Every one of the remaining 92 Premier League games will be broadcast live across Sky Sports, BT Sport, BBC Sport or Amazon Prime.
In total, 33 of those matches will be free to air.
Post by: Hillbilly on June 04, 2020, 03:40:31 AM
Aston Villa vs Sheffield United will kick off on June 17th at 6pm, and will be live on Sky Sports.That's 3 in the morning in Australia. Have they no consideration?
Post by: sid1964 on June 04, 2020, 08:13:10 AM
Post by: Mister E on June 04, 2020, 08:31:42 AM
We don't "need" to beat Sheffield United. Even if we lose we will be two points off seventeenth with nine games remaining, plenty of points to play for.Beating SheffU would not only give evryone at the club a massive confidnece injection, it would also move us out of the bottom 3 when all games-played are equal.
I'd take a draw in that game right now, would be a solid start and something to build on.
So whilst it's not a "need", technically, it's a "need" motivationally.
Post by: eamonn on June 04, 2020, 09:11:04 AM
Post by: Ad@m on June 04, 2020, 09:22:31 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 04, 2020, 09:31:50 AM
We looked all over the place at the end of the Leicester game. we need a win and draw out of the next 2 games.
Post by: Ads on June 04, 2020, 09:45:30 AM
And given the rest of our fixtures, getting 5 wins from the remaining 9 if we lose the Sheffield United game seems like a bridge too far.
I think we'll beat NEC Nijmegen, but the Vittesse game....
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2020, 11:47:08 AM
We don't "need" to beat Sheffield United. Even if we lose we will be two points off seventeenth with nine games remaining, plenty of points to play for.Beating SheffU would not only give evryone at the club a massive confidnece injection, it would also move us out of the bottom 3 when all games-played are equal.
I'd take a draw in that game right now, would be a solid start and something to build on.
So whilst it's not a "need", technically, it's a "need" motivationally.
No, it isn't. We could lose nine-nil and still stay up. It isn't a "need" in any way.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on June 04, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
Post by: Mister E on June 04, 2020, 11:52:16 AM
Logically you're right; psychologically it ain't that binary. If we lose 9-0 (or even 2-0) I think psychologically we will not recover from it and be likely to continue to lose.We don't "need" to beat Sheffield United. Even if we lose we will be two points off seventeenth with nine games remaining, plenty of points to play for.Beating SheffU would not only give evryone at the club a massive confidnece injection, it would also move us out of the bottom 3 when all games-played are equal.
I'd take a draw in that game right now, would be a solid start and something to build on.
So whilst it's not a "need", technically, it's a "need" motivationally.
No, it isn't. We could lose nine-nil and still stay up. It isn't a "need" in any way.
I say that from the evidence of the first 28 games, where we have looked psychologically frail.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on June 04, 2020, 12:19:43 PM
God knows how many they intend to print. Possible collectors' items of the future?
Post by: Damo70 on June 04, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
Post by: Dave P on June 04, 2020, 12:24:37 PM
Have we beaten Sheff Utd. with Wilder in charge?
Yes. Snodgrass last minute 1-0 away.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2020, 12:34:02 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 04, 2020, 12:37:53 PM
We don't "need" to beat Sheffield United. Even if we lose we will be two points off seventeenth with nine games remaining, plenty of points to play for.Beating SheffU would not only give evryone at the club a massive confidnece injection, it would also move us out of the bottom 3 when all games-played are equal.
I'd take a draw in that game right now, would be a solid start and something to build on.
So whilst it's not a "need", technically, it's a "need" motivationally.
No, it isn't. We could lose nine-nil and still stay up. It isn't a "need" in any way.
You're right in that we could have 5 Watford v Liverpool games, but realistically we won't will we.
Given the number of points we need to stay up, Sheffield United is as close to a must win as it gets without actually being one.
Post by: Legion on June 04, 2020, 12:39:55 PM
Post by: Legion on June 04, 2020, 12:49:27 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 04, 2020, 01:17:04 PM
I watched their first game back - they lost 4-1 at home and looked truly dreadful, relegation certainties. They then took 7 points from the next 3 games.
So, a win against Blades would be huge but a defeat wouldn’t spell certain relegation either.
Post by: usav on June 04, 2020, 02:40:07 PM
Have we beaten Sheff Utd. with Wilder in charge?
Yes. Snodgrass last minute 1-0 away.
And if we are honest, we robbed them in that game.
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 04, 2020, 03:08:33 PM
Have we beaten Sheff Utd. with Wilder in charge?
Yes. Snodgrass last minute 1-0 away.
And if we are honest, we robbed them in that game.
I’m fine with that. Anyone got a problem with us robbing our next 11 opponents?
Post by: olaftab on June 04, 2020, 03:28:06 PM
And if we are honest, we robbed them in that game.I would honestly say we fully deserved to win that game and a draw would have flattered them.
Post by: AV82EC on June 04, 2020, 03:30:24 PM
And if we are honest, we robbed them in that game.I would honestly say we fully deserved to win that game and a draw would have flattered them.
I agree, we were in full on boring Bruce mode and they didn’t have a clue on how to break us down, we grew into the game and looked the more likely winners in the last 15 minutes. Proper terrace mental after the goal as well.
Post by: Mister E on June 04, 2020, 03:44:21 PM
People are being dismissive of Sheffield United. Nobody would be saying we "need" to beat Arsenal or Tottenham if they were first game, but Sheffield United are better than either of them this season. A draw would be a solid (re)start.Nobody? - a bit absolute, that; isn't it?
With a new start, we'd all be looking for something out of our first home game ...
... I wouldn't want to lose; is all.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2020, 04:03:22 PM
People are being dismissive of Sheffield United. Nobody would be saying we "need" to beat Arsenal or Tottenham if they were first game, but Sheffield United are better than either of them this season. A draw would be a solid (re)start.Nobody? - a bit absolute, that; isn't it?
With a new start, we'd all be looking for something out of our first home game ...
... I wouldn't want to lose; is all.
"Wouldn't want to lose" is fine. "Need to win" is over the top imo.
Post by: LeeB on June 04, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
And if we are honest, we robbed them in that game.I would honestly say we fully deserved to win that game and a draw would have flattered them.
I agree, we were in full on boring Bruce mode and they didn’t have a clue on how to break us down, we grew into the game and looked the more likely winners in the last 15 minutes. Proper terrace mental after the goal as well.
That's how I saw it, thought it was one of our better Bruceball efforts.
Post by: aev on June 04, 2020, 04:22:06 PM
“ The club fear that they may lose more than £200m of revenue in the period from the start of lockdown to June 2021, including broadcast rebates, and they have sought help from the government’s Covid Corporate Financing Facility, which has provided them with the unsecured loan. It is repayable in full next April at a rate of 0.5%, which is low in commercial terms, although Spurs could redraw it for another year.‘
Post by: Legion on June 04, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
17th June: Sheffield United 6pm (H) (Sky)
21st June: Chelsea 4:30pm (H) (Sky)
24th June: Newcastle 6pm (A) (BT)
28th June: Wolves 12pm (H) (BT)
Post by: timeoutbigbar on June 04, 2020, 08:06:38 PM
AVFC provisional fixtures up until July 2nd:
17th June: Sheffield United 6pm (H) (Sky)
21st June: Chelsea 4:30pm (H) (Sky)
24th June: Newcastle 6pm (A) (BT)
28th June: Wolves 12pm (H) (BT)
From nothing for months to 4 games in 11 days? Thank god we've got strength in depth.
Post by: Ad@m on June 04, 2020, 08:37:39 PM
AVFC provisional fixtures up until July 2nd:
17th June: Sheffield United 6pm (H) (Sky)
21st June: Chelsea 4:30pm (H) (Sky)
24th June: Newcastle 6pm (A) (BT)
28th June: Wolves 12pm (H) (BT)
From nothing for months to 4 games in 11 days? Thank god we've got strength in depth.
We've got to get through 10 games in six weeks. It's going to be intense!
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 04, 2020, 09:01:11 PM
Far better than absolute silence.
Post by: Legion on June 04, 2020, 09:02:31 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 04, 2020, 09:07:30 PM
No.
You're watching it too then?
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 04, 2020, 09:13:03 PM
No.
You're watching it too then?
Until his TV blew up.
Post by: Legion on June 04, 2020, 09:14:49 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2020, 10:36:15 PM
Post by: Richard E on June 04, 2020, 10:37:58 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2020, 10:47:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 05, 2020, 01:30:41 AM
AVFC provisional fixtures up until July 2nd:We should be match fit by end of June.
17th June: Sheffield United 6pm (H) (Sky)
21st June: Chelsea 4:30pm (H) (Sky)
24th June: Newcastle 6pm (A) (BT)
28th June: Wolves 12pm (H) (BT)
Post by: OzVilla on June 05, 2020, 04:10:11 AM
Newcastle (they're shit too but might be coasting to seasons end knowing they're all leaving anyway) - Liverpool (may have just won the league the previous game) - Everton (really not much to play for) - West Ham (they may be safe by then and well on the beach).
Post by: Rory on June 05, 2020, 08:24:22 AM
No.
There's something I find very sinister about this talk of pumping in crowd noise. Something about simulating genuine human emotion and interaction for the sake of the plausibility of the broadcast product that doesn't sit right with me.
Sends a message that the supporters don't really matter, they're just part of the entertainment that can be switched on and off. It's a bit The Running Man.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 05, 2020, 09:10:53 AM
No.
There's something I find very sinister about this talk of pumping in crowd noise. Something about simulating genuine human emotion and interaction for the sake of the plausibility of the broadcast product that doesn't sit right with me.
Sends a message that the supporters don't really matter, they're just part of the entertainment that can be switched on and off. It's a bit The Running Man.
'Sinister' seems a bit hyperbolic conspiracy theory to me. 'Wank' would seem a more apt description to me.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 05, 2020, 09:35:38 AM
As a neutral it made it far more interesting to watch, something that the commentators regularly mentioned as did everyone I saw comment online. Whether I’d feel the same about it being done for a Villa game, I’m not sure.
Post by: Small Rodent on June 05, 2020, 09:52:07 AM
No.
There's something I find very sinister about this talk of pumping in crowd noise. Something about simulating genuine human emotion and interaction for the sake of the plausibility of the broadcast product that doesn't sit right with me.
Sends a message that the supporters don't really matter, they're just part of the entertainment that can be switched on and off. It's a bit The Running Man.
Escape to Victory
Post by: Rory on June 05, 2020, 10:41:58 AM
No.
There's something I find very sinister about this talk of pumping in crowd noise. Something about simulating genuine human emotion and interaction for the sake of the plausibility of the broadcast product that doesn't sit right with me.
Sends a message that the supporters don't really matter, they're just part of the entertainment that can be switched on and off. It's a bit The Running Man.
'Sinister' seems a bit hyperbolic conspiracy theory to me. 'Wank' would seem a more apt description to me.
I don't think there's any conspiracy, I just don't like the thought that the fans are there to generate an atmosphere for the TV audience, and if the fans aren't there, no matter - we can just simulate some.
I never watch football on TV - it's being there in person or nothing for me - so I'm sure most will disagree. This just strikes me as another attempt to engineer the game to suit commercial purposes.
I don't expect people to agree - I think all cup competitions should be randomly drawn straight knockouts, and every league game should be a Saturday 3pm kick off. I'm just a bit old-fashioned that way.
Post by: Steve67 on June 05, 2020, 10:55:02 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 05, 2020, 10:59:40 AM
I personally think it's a bit strange, but then I havent watched any closed doors games with or without it to make a judgment.
Post by: Dr Butler on June 05, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Dave P on June 05, 2020, 11:17:43 AM
pumping in crowd noises sounds like something that lot over Bordesley way and the stripey wankers would do...
UTV
The Doc
And we all know what chant would be pumped through.
Post by: Rory on June 05, 2020, 11:40:52 AM
I just think they are trying to make the viewing experience more normal / enjoyable, it's nothing to do with disrepecting supporters or sending any hidden messages.
I personally think it's a bit strange, but then I havent watched any closed doors games with or without it to make a judgment.
I get that, but things aren't normal, so I'm not sure why they feel the need to pretend they are. Not accusing them of deliberately undermining supporters, I just find it all a bit weird and contrived.
Either the whole experience is important, in which case live supporters are integral and football shouldn't be played without them, or it's what happens on the pitch that matters, in which case why bother artificially generating an atmosphere?
Just my view. I think that there's enough that's artificial about the game already.
Post by: WarszaVillan on June 05, 2020, 11:47:12 AM
Post by: Damo70 on June 05, 2020, 12:20:21 PM
I'd only be in favour of piping in canned laughter when players do something really shit.
Using that logic the entire Lambert years would have been played out with a canned laughter soundtrack. ;)
Post by: Damo70 on June 05, 2020, 12:23:19 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 05, 2020, 12:53:00 PM
I still think that they should put up big screens in the stands where those watching online appear on the screen along with sound. This could create a new interactive experience of watching matches online, where fans can shout and sing into their computers and be heard in the stadium. No idea if this could work, probably not, but I like the idea.
They've done that (in a way) in the Danish League and it's apparently one of the options they're looking at for the Prem, albeit using the current big screens rather than new screens in the stands.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 05, 2020, 12:53:11 PM
I think the last 'behind closed doors' game I saw live on TV was an International game on SKY. On the odd occasion I have watched a behind closed doors game on TV I have always found it difficult to get into with no crowd.It will be odd but I'm quite looking forward to seeing it now. I'm pretty sure I'll get into it as it's Villa playing and the games have massive importance. I think if we were mid table I'd be a lot less bothered.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 05, 2020, 01:29:29 PM
AVFC provisional fixtures up until July 2nd:We should be match fit by end of June.
17th June: Sheffield United 6pm (H) (Sky)
21st June: Chelsea 4:30pm (H) (Sky)
24th June: Newcastle 6pm (A) (BT)
28th June: Wolves 12pm (H) (BT)
Wonder how many minutes Matt Targett can handle
He's rife for being injured.
I won't say I told you so when the inevitable happens but I will say I told you so !
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 05, 2020, 01:31:08 PM
I don't know how people feel about that one.
I imagine the players have them though not during the matches. Subs maybe
Post by: CT on June 05, 2020, 01:53:53 PM
AVFC provisional fixtures up until July 2nd:We should be match fit by end of June.
17th June: Sheffield United 6pm (H) (Sky)
21st June: Chelsea 4:30pm (H) (Sky)
24th June: Newcastle 6pm (A) (BT)
28th June: Wolves 12pm (H) (BT)
Wonder how many minutes Matt Targett can handle
He's rife for being injured.
I won't say I told you so when the inevitable happens but I will say I told you so !
Hopefully Matt doesn’t get injured and you won’t be able to tell us all you told us so.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 05, 2020, 01:57:52 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 05, 2020, 02:00:05 PM
I think we match up well v Newcastle who are one of the few prem clubs who don't attempt to press in midfield. God knows what training schedule Bruce has been giving them in lockdown given it's lax at the best of times so think we can go there and win like we did at Burnley.
Palace are good away but really can't see them caring much at end of the season when they'll be just mid table and wanting the season to end. That said we will lose the atmosphere for night games which seems to get extra 10% out of this squad which is reflected in the results.
Can't see us staying up if we don't win those two games. Think 4 wins will be enough.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 05, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Watching the Benfica game which has artificial crowd noise. Never thought I’d say this but it works well! Plenty of Benfica chants throughout the game and we’ve also had boos and whistles for the ref when he booked a home player and also for an away player following a bad challenge!
Far better than absolute silence.
It was an awful game regardless, Porto and Sporting clube (If Mark Kelly is still around) were far more interesting.
One thing from watching those those games is the standard of goalkeeping in Portugal league is abysmal.
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 05, 2020, 02:42:33 PM
Post by: CT on June 05, 2020, 03:20:53 PM
Villa v Stripey Tramps friendly this Saturday afternoon at Villa Park apparently, please don't anyone get injured against this filth.
Expect the standard bitterness if we win.
Post by: Dave P on June 05, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
Villa v Stripey Tramps friendly this Saturday afternoon at Villa Park apparently, please don't anyone get injured against this filth.
Cool, might pop along to that. Doing nothing else.
Post by: eamonn on June 05, 2020, 05:53:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2020, 06:49:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 05, 2020, 07:13:36 PM
So am I right in thinking that none of our first 4 games are free to air?
I don't think you are, from what I can make out the 6pm sky slot will air on Pick as well as sky sports so is free. I'm not sure about the BT games.
Post by: Ad@m on June 05, 2020, 07:41:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2020, 07:47:15 PM
So am I right in thinking that none of our first 4 games are free to air?
I don't think you are, from what I can make out the 6pm sky slot will air on Pick as well as sky sports so is free. I'm not sure about the BT games.
Hope so.
Post by: spangley1812 on June 05, 2020, 07:49:00 PM
So am I right in thinking that none of our first 4 games are free to air?
You are right mate
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 05, 2020, 08:15:29 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 05, 2020, 08:22:07 PM
Post by: BC Villain on June 05, 2020, 09:08:22 PM
I still think that they should put up big screens in the stands where those watching online appear on the screen along with sound. This could create a new interactive experience of watching matches online, where fans can shout and sing into their computers and be heard in the stadium. No idea if this could work, probably not, but I like the idea.
If VAR gets a wrong decision, will they be pumping "Fuck VAR" into the stadium?
Post by: Damo70 on June 05, 2020, 09:21:30 PM
To stay up the two must win games in my mind are Palace at home and Newcastle away.
I think we match up well v Newcastle who are one of the few prem clubs who don't attempt to press in midfield. God knows what training schedule Bruce has been giving them in lockdown given it's lax at the best of times so think we can go there and win like we did at Burnley.
Palace are good away but really can't see them caring much at end of the season when they'll be just mid table and wanting the season to end. That said we will lose the atmosphere for night games which seems to get extra 10% out of this squad which is reflected in the results.
Can't see us staying up if we don't win those two games. Think 4 wins will be enough.
Palace were an in form side before the games were stopped and an away trip to Newcastle is tricky. I reckon four wins guarantees safety. We could stay up with less than the twelve points four wins would bring but we would be pushing our luck.
Post by: eamonn on June 05, 2020, 09:23:58 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 05, 2020, 10:13:01 PM
If you have Prime it includes the games they show.
I don't think you need a Prime subscription. Anyone can watch it via the app is my understanding.
Details here - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/06/04/how-watch-premier-league-fixtures-free-tv-sky-amazon-prime/
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 05, 2020, 10:26:30 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 05, 2020, 10:44:40 PM
Blimey. Didn't expect that from amazon. After their coverage of those 2 'rounds' last year, I wonder if they'll go for a whole Saturday or Sunday.
No, they only have four games, the first of which is the eagerly awaited Monday Night showdown between Crystal Palace and Burnley.
That only leaves three games so not enough for a full weekend day.
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 05, 2020, 11:44:02 PM
To stay up the two must win games in my mind are Palace at home and Newcastle away.
I think we match up well v Newcastle who are one of the few prem clubs who don't attempt to press in midfield. God knows what training schedule Bruce has been giving them in lockdown given it's lax at the best of times so think we can go there and win like we did at Burnley.
Palace are good away but really can't see them caring much at end of the season when they'll be just mid table and wanting the season to end. That said we will lose the atmosphere for night games which seems to get extra 10% out of this squad which is reflected in the results.
Can't see us staying up if we don't win those two games. Think 4 wins will be enough.
Palace were an in form side before the games were stopped and an away trip to Newcastle is tricky. I reckon four wins guarantees safety. We could stay up with less than the twelve points four wins would bring but we would be pushing our luck.
If we can't win those two I simply can't see us getting another 10 points from the other games. I see Palace as easier than Wolves and probably although the other home games we've got although Chelsea will be missing a few midfielders when they play us and we'll also have a match under our belts so that could be an opportunity.
Post by: OzVilla on June 06, 2020, 02:47:25 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 06, 2020, 02:50:37 AM
Post by: OzVilla on June 06, 2020, 03:38:28 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2020, 09:14:28 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2020, 01:06:21 PM
Having McGinn back will be a bonus but we still need some beef in midfield.Is Ross Mc still with us?
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2020, 01:07:54 PM
We are playing Albion in a friendly at VP today according to the Daily Mail.Yes I am there along with 200 friends standing on each other’s shoulder in Aston Park.
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
And how are they going to let us know the referee’s profession?I still think that they should put up big screens in the stands where those watching online appear on the screen along with sound. This could create a new interactive experience of watching matches online, where fans can shout and sing into their computers and be heard in the stadium. No idea if this could work, probably not, but I like the idea.
If VAR gets a wrong decision, will they be pumping "Fuck VAR" into the stadium?
Post by: Legion on June 06, 2020, 01:41:14 PM
Post by: old man villa fan on June 06, 2020, 01:55:37 PM
And how are they going to let us know the referee’s profession?I still think that they should put up big screens in the stands where those watching online appear on the screen along with sound. This could create a new interactive experience of watching matches online, where fans can shout and sing into their computers and be heard in the stadium. No idea if this could work, probably not, but I like the idea.
If VAR gets a wrong decision, will they be pumping "Fuck VAR" into the stadium?
It's not changing, is it? They are all still members of the Royal Society of Mass Debaters.
Post by: Rogerwilco on June 06, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 06, 2020, 03:34:47 PM
And how are they going to let us know the referee’s profession?I still think that they should put up big screens in the stands where those watching online appear on the screen along with sound. This could create a new interactive experience of watching matches online, where fans can shout and sing into their computers and be heard in the stadium. No idea if this could work, probably not, but I like the idea.
If VAR gets a wrong decision, will they be pumping "Fuck VAR" into the stadium?
It's not changing, is it? They are all still members of the Royal Society of Mass Debaters.
Ref ! Your need a test drive to Barnard Castle !
Post by: Damo70 on June 06, 2020, 03:45:44 PM
And how are they going to let us know the referee’s profession?I still think that they should put up big screens in the stands where those watching online appear on the screen along with sound. This could create a new interactive experience of watching matches online, where fans can shout and sing into their computers and be heard in the stadium. No idea if this could work, probably not, but I like the idea.
If VAR gets a wrong decision, will they be pumping "Fuck VAR" into the stadium?
It's not changing, is it? They are all still members of the Royal Society of Mass Debaters.
Ref ! Your need a test drive to Barnard Castle !
Excellent work! Ten out of ten. ;D
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 06, 2020, 04:15:34 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 06, 2020, 04:18:09 PM
Post by: Rogerwilco on June 06, 2020, 04:19:03 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 06, 2020, 04:20:56 PM
Post by: Holte132 on June 06, 2020, 04:38:56 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 06, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
We beat the dirty verminous filth 5-1 in the first game with Samatta getting a hat trick and McGinn two, then drew the second 2-2.
Interesting what the starting line up was from that if it's available anywhere, would give indication on any tweaks DS will do in 11 days time.
A fresh SJM sounds very good news.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 06, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
That sounds positive. Hopefully nobody hurt
Alex Cropley Stayed Home.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 06, 2020, 05:31:12 PM
We beat the dirty verminous filth 5-1 in the first game with Samatta getting a hat trick and McGinn two, then drew the second 2-2.
Have to say Samatta and McGinn are decent goal threats for us and good to hear as I really like both of them and think they will go along way with their goals to help us stop up
Post by: curiousorange on June 06, 2020, 05:37:30 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on June 06, 2020, 05:39:46 PM
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 06, 2020, 05:49:19 PM
They reckon only the 2-2 took place.
Smith out.
Post by: curiousorange on June 06, 2020, 06:08:45 PM
They reckon only the 2-2 took place.
Smith out.
Hey, us fans need match practice too.
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 06, 2020, 06:35:07 PM
Post by: Holte132 on June 06, 2020, 07:11:41 PM
Post by: Legion on June 06, 2020, 07:18:21 PM
Post by: Holte132 on June 06, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
One.So where did the 5-1 come from?
Post by: Legion on June 06, 2020, 07:24:42 PM
Post by: Legion on June 06, 2020, 07:24:59 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2020, 07:58:56 PM
So was there only one game against Smethwick this afternoon, or were there two?
There appears to have been 3x 30 min games with different sides out for each session.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2020, 08:22:56 PM
Post by: brian green on June 07, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 07, 2020, 08:17:08 PM
They kicked from the Directors' Box to the Doug Ellis in the middle third.
Must have been rush goalie as well then as all our seem to be injured except for Pepe Reina!
Post by: Legion on June 07, 2020, 08:18:00 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 07, 2020, 08:25:04 PM
I thought Jed Steer was back?
Hasn't he done his achillies?
Post by: Legion on June 07, 2020, 08:26:51 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 07, 2020, 08:28:07 PM
Post by: Legion on June 07, 2020, 08:29:27 PM
Post by: steamer on June 07, 2020, 09:05:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2020, 09:08:25 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on June 08, 2020, 12:25:38 PM
Post by: Legion on June 08, 2020, 12:40:15 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on June 08, 2020, 12:41:51 PM
I believe so.Cheers Legion, wonder what the print run will be?
Post by: Damo70 on June 08, 2020, 12:52:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
SKY have just decided to predict the final Premier League table based on each team's form in the last ten games of last season plus the points already on the board from this season. They have basically theoretically awarded Villa 13th place in the Premier League this season mainly due to our excellent form in the Championship run in last season.
Brilliant I like that method.
Post by: eamonn on June 08, 2020, 01:07:42 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 08, 2020, 01:08:36 PM
SKY have just decided to predict the final Premier League table based on each team's form in the last ten games of last season plus the points already on the board from this season. They have basically theoretically awarded Villa 13th place in the Premier League this season mainly due to our excellent form in the Championship run in last season.Finally, sense at last.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 08, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
Any one know any more on that one ?
In league got blitzed 4-0 and 4-1 .
Though never take away those cup performances!
Post by: Drummond on June 08, 2020, 01:20:43 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 08, 2020, 02:21:25 PM
Have people seen/read/heard that Villa are playing Leicester city in a friendly ?
Any one know any more on that one ?
In league got blitzed 4-0 and 4-1 .
Though never take away those cup performances!
On Wednesday. It’s two matches. One at villa park and one at Leicester
Post by: Mister E on June 08, 2020, 05:57:43 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 08, 2020, 06:11:54 PM
Post by: phantom limb on June 08, 2020, 06:56:07 PM
That 'varstraner' or whatever his name is an incredibly bitter nose, a rare one that knows big words, and he'll post long winded efforts on every Villa article about how everything is so unfair.
He’s been at it for years. Thankfully his posts are usually so long you can clock them before you start reading them properly and skip past. He just says the same stuff over and over again anyway so you’re never missing anything.
Post by: andyh on June 08, 2020, 07:44:38 PM
So we’ll have to listen to shit about Jack going to yanited for months to come.
Post by: Mister E on June 08, 2020, 08:22:51 PM
Post by: Damo70 on June 08, 2020, 09:35:35 PM
Blues manager is stepping down ...
He is leaving Small Heath so I would suggest that wherever he ends up he will actually be stepping up as opposed to stepping down ;)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 08, 2020, 09:42:05 PM
FA talking about moving transfer window to run from August to October!
So we’ll have to listen to shit about Jack going to yanited for months to come.
This is good as if worst case happens and we go down, gives us more time to prep for next season with the outgoings/incoming
Post by: Steve67 on June 08, 2020, 10:13:39 PM
FA talking about moving transfer window to run from August to October!
So we’ll have to listen to shit about Jack going to yanited for months to come.
This is good as if worst case happens and we go down, gives us more time to prep for next season with the outgoings/incoming
Might also mean that the FA will not be starting the new season until October as they will want fans involved and the virus could be dead by then. Perhaps a slightly shorter season too, cram the games in to start the following season on time in 2021-22.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 08, 2020, 10:19:21 PM
Post by: exigo on June 09, 2020, 12:51:50 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 09, 2020, 01:19:30 PM
Mirror were reporting September 12 as the new season start date. Three weeks between seasons.
That would mean 7 weeks between seasons? (Apart from teams in play offs or cup finals).
Post by: Towser on June 09, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
Quote
France's highest court BLOCKS relegation in cancelled Ligue 1 season - meaning Toulouse are spared from going down despite winning just one point since MID-OCTOBER![/quote
https://xxx.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8403103/Frances-highest-court-spares-Amiens-Toulouse-Ligue-1-relegation.html
Post by: paul_e on June 09, 2020, 06:43:04 PM
QuoteFrance's highest court BLOCKS relegation in cancelled Ligue 1 season - meaning Toulouse are spared from going down despite winning just one point since MID-OCTOBER![/quote
https://xxx.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8403103/Frances-highest-court-spares-Amiens-Toulouse-Ligue-1-relegation.html (https://xxx.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8403103/Frances-highest-court-spares-Amiens-Toulouse-Ligue-1-relegation.html)
That's probably the most significant story on this entire thread and is exactly what I suspect would happen if the premier league isn't able to play out all of the games.
Post by: eamonn on June 09, 2020, 07:52:28 PM
Leagues One and Two decided by PPG this afternoon. Cov crowned winners of League One. Maybe that's what the fella meant with his "We'll Be Back" banner at VP all those years ago...
In terms of teams ending in different places, the biggest kick in the stones was for Peterborough who miss out on the play-offs due to a team below jumping over them with a stronger PPG and having a game in hand. Posh's goal difference was 20+ better or something. Maybe that's down to them rattling in goals against bottom teams that other clubs didn't get a chance to play twice...imperfect situation obviously. And Sunderland face a third straight year in the third tier...
In France they announced they are doing away with relegation from the top flight so next season will be expanded by the promoted teams.
Edit: Just seen post discussing this
Post by: Villan82 on June 10, 2020, 12:14:02 AM
QuoteFrance's highest court BLOCKS relegation in cancelled Ligue 1 season - meaning Toulouse are spared from going down despite winning just one point since MID-OCTOBER![/quote
https://xxx.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8403103/Frances-highest-court-spares-Amiens-Toulouse-Ligue-1-relegation.html (https://xxx.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8403103/Frances-highest-court-spares-Amiens-Toulouse-Ligue-1-relegation.html)
That's probably the most significant story on this entire thread and is exactly what I suspect would happen if the premier league isn't able to play out all of the games.
Fingers crossed.
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 10, 2020, 04:13:08 AM
Completely different Legal System and Judicial power, different contractual arrangements and its France.
Post by: sid1964 on June 10, 2020, 05:55:01 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 10, 2020, 05:58:36 AM
I thought that the clubs had all agreed on the way forward if the season could not be completed?I think they kicked the ball into the long grass on that one.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 10, 2020, 01:53:08 PM
Quote
Toulouse are spared from going down despite winning just one point since MID-OCTOBER!
Just the couple of defeats though.
I'll get me coat.
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 10, 2020, 09:44:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2020, 09:48:41 PM
Post by: Ads on June 10, 2020, 09:58:09 PM
It appears we won one and lost one vs Leicester today. I think won 3-0 away, lost 1-0 at VP.
Trez scored a really good goal.
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 10, 2020, 10:27:41 PM
It appears we won one and lost one vs Leicester today. I think won 3-0 away, lost 1-0 at VP.
Trez scored a really good goal.
aye
https://twitter.com/AVFCchats/status/1270817357338947585?s=20
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 10, 2020, 10:30:36 PM
(https://www.avfc.co.uk/-/media/grealish-leicester-training.ashx?h=720&la=en&mw=1280&w=1280&hash=58E7A712508911476DAFDB3CEC12E0553826E923)
Post by: CT on June 11, 2020, 07:49:54 AM
Jack looking like he's just rolled out from weeks of just praying, meditating and smoking copious amounts of weed.
(https://www.avfc.co.uk/-/media/grealish-leicester-training.ashx?h=720&la=en&mw=1280&w=1280&hash=58E7A712508911476DAFDB3CEC12E0553826E923)
I was thinking more Tom Hanks and “Castaway”.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on June 11, 2020, 08:42:03 AM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on June 11, 2020, 09:48:47 AM
So looking at the pics - the VP game looks like the "A" team and the away game the "B" team?
It does look that way, I agree. I’m guessing Hourihane played in the evening game though as I saw him having a walk in Knowle late morning yesterday with his Mrs and little un.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 11, 2020, 10:01:16 AM
So looking at the pics - the VP game looks like the "A" team and the away game the "B" team?And the 'A' team lost? Oh well, another week to prepare.
Post by: Mister E on June 11, 2020, 12:24:08 PM
So looking at the pics - the VP game looks like the "A" team and the away game the "B" team?Yes, that's what I assumed.
Does that mean our 9-man bench will be stronger than we thought? :)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 11, 2020, 12:37:50 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 11, 2020, 12:54:05 PM
Isn't the English lower leagues being decided on PPG a far more relevant precedent than what the French League have done?Well they haven't been challenged legaly. The French legal ruling is what should give us some hope.
Post by: paul_e on June 11, 2020, 01:33:30 PM
Isn't the English lower leagues being decided on PPG a far more relevant precedent than what the French League have done?
not really because other leagues in the english pyramid have been declared void so nationally there is precedence for both.
The french decision is more relevant because we have the funds to push similar legal action and we now have a precedent from the top league in a national pyramid.
Post by: Damo70 on June 11, 2020, 02:15:32 PM
Jack looking like he's just rolled out from weeks of just praying, meditating and smoking copious amounts of weed.
(https://www.avfc.co.uk/-/media/grealish-leicester-training.ashx?h=720&la=en&mw=1280&w=1280&hash=58E7A712508911476DAFDB3CEC12E0553826E923)
I was thinking more Tom Hanks and “Castaway”.
He appears to have gone for the Gareth Bale look. Hopefully he will play like Bale too.
Post by: Stu on June 11, 2020, 03:01:44 PM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on June 11, 2020, 08:22:33 PM
Apparently the Bernebeu is undergoing renovations. Their training ground holds 6k, but this is irrelevant as it's behind closed doors.
I don't give a sh-t for any tv deal, but playing on the training ground is an interesting approach when home advantage and everything that goes with that is lost.
Post by: Exeter 77 on June 11, 2020, 08:26:34 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on June 11, 2020, 08:27:43 PM
Jack looking like he's just rolled out from weeks of just praying, meditating and smoking copious amounts of weed.
(https://www.avfc.co.uk/-/media/grealish-leicester-training.ashx?h=720&la=en&mw=1280&w=1280&hash=58E7A712508911476DAFDB3CEC12E0553826E923)
I was thinking more Tom Hanks and “Castaway”.
Ha, ha. He looks like he's just about to put his foot through Wilson, which is no way to treat an old friend.
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 12, 2020, 05:20:39 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on June 12, 2020, 10:01:00 AM
Groups of fans ignored guidance as they gathered outside the Ramon Sanchez-Pizjuan Stadium before the game, and some of the TV presentation left plenty to be desired.' (BBC sport)
Nothing predictable about that last paragraph at all. A local derby inside a soulless stadium with fans outside and a sh-t tv broadcast.
Post by: myf on June 13, 2020, 05:25:03 PM
Post by: Villan82 on June 13, 2020, 05:33:32 PM
I can't see us surviving but at the same time will be distraught if it happens. consolation is Championship could be very weak division if olbiyun and Dirty Leeds go up. we could be a very big fish in that league if West Ham survive
It took us three years last time. Three more years in the wilderness, on top of the past ten years of crap? Nah thanks.
Post by: Ad@m on June 13, 2020, 05:58:14 PM
I can't see us surviving but at the same time will be distraught if it happens. consolation is Championship could be very weak division if olbiyun and Dirty Leeds go up. we could be a very big fish in that league if West Ham survive
It took us three years last time. Three more years in the wilderness, on top of the past ten years of crap? Nah thanks.
Those three years were a hell of a lot more fun than the five years before them.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 13, 2020, 06:23:13 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 13, 2020, 06:46:01 PM
The last bit was. The preceding two and a half years were shit. Hated it.
Eh?
Villa 5-5 Forest
Villa 4-2 Blues
Villa 5-0 Brizzle
Villa 4-1 Wolves
Sheffield W 2-4 Villa
Etc, etc
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 13, 2020, 06:55:15 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 13, 2020, 07:39:02 PM
None of which we got from the last five years in the Prem.
Post by: AV82EC on June 14, 2020, 08:01:54 AM
I agree, we're Aston Villa, and dispatching sides week after week by those sort of scorelines is what I'd expected. Reality was we didn’t, and that in three seasons we barely managed the sum total of one fucking week in the automatic places.
Leeds would have managed 2.
Oh.
Post by: frank black on June 14, 2020, 03:26:39 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 14, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
The second division was made so more clubs could aspire to be like us, not to fucking play against us.
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 14, 2020, 05:27:15 PM
Every minute spent outside the top flight diminishes our fine institution.
The second division was made so more clubs could aspire to be like us, not to fucking play against us.
Agreed. I’m not in the I don’t care camp or isn’t it so much more fun in the Championship? Yeh sure we had some good games and relative to the utter fucking gash of the previous 5 or 6 at times it was much more enjoyable. But I have zero interest ever being there again. I’m very much in the we need to stay up and I care a lot about these last few games. Relegation would be a massive disaster and would set us back many years yet again.
Post by: myf on June 14, 2020, 07:01:36 PM
I can't see us surviving but at the same time will be distraught if it happens. consolation is Championship could be very weak division if olbiyun and Dirty Leeds go up. we could be a very big fish in that league if West Ham survive
It took us three years last time. Three more years in the wilderness, on top of the past ten years of crap? Nah thanks.
oh I agree. it will be horrendous if we drop. I'm just trying to find positives if it happens
Post by: wince on June 15, 2020, 01:39:20 PM
Post by: Ad@m on June 15, 2020, 01:42:42 PM
Thing is, if we drop into the championship, it will be because we were not good enough. I think as a club we had a shock in the championship that we weren’t rolling teams over every week as we forgot we were stinking the prem out. Play better we stay up. If we drop we need to work harder than last time we were down there and get momentum.
I'm not sure we do.
Last time we went down we'd been circling the drain for years. It's well documented that there was a losing mentality at the club.
This times different. If we go down, it'll be down to equal measures lack of ability and lack of experience. Even if we lost Grealish I'd back this squad to go up at the first time of asking.
Post by: Damo70 on June 15, 2020, 02:15:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 15, 2020, 02:33:57 PM
There's plenty more but at the base level Aston Villa belong in the top division, the stadium, the support and the history all demand nothing less.
Post by: brian green on June 15, 2020, 04:40:15 PM
Post by: curiousorange on June 15, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
I hated the championship, having clubs like Bristol fucking City think they could treat us as equals, watching the Baggies and Wolves think they're suddenly the biggest club in the region and can tell us what it's like to support a big club, seeing players I rate go to clubs like Brighton and Bournemouth to be watched by about 25 fans, the fucking shit coverage, smug twats from clubs like spurs claiming we were ruining Grealish's career by not selling him to them for a couple of million and a kid they don't want.
There's plenty more but at the base level Aston Villa belong in the top division, the stadium, the support and the history all demand nothing less.
Hear, hear.
Post by: dcdavecollett on June 15, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
Post by: Villan82 on June 15, 2020, 11:39:43 PM
I hated the championship, having clubs like Bristol fucking City think they could treat us as equals, watching the Baggies and Wolves think they're suddenly the biggest club in the region and can tell us what it's like to support a big club, seeing players I rate go to clubs like Brighton and Bournemouth to be watched by about 25 fans, the fucking shit coverage, smug twats from clubs like spurs claiming we were ruining Grealish's career by not selling him to them for a couple of million and a kid they don't want.
There's plenty more but at the base level Aston Villa belong in the top division, the stadium, the support and the history all demand nothing less.
This should be the view of every Aston Villa fan. I don't 'get 'the championship love, it diminishes our fine club ffs. We need to be in the top flight looking to push on, not going backward to drift in the wilderness.
Post by: Ad@m on June 15, 2020, 11:48:12 PM
It really wouldn't be the end of the world if we went down. And I think we'll be a lot closer to whether we need to get used to that idea by 8pm on Wednesday.
Post by: Big Ming on June 16, 2020, 09:37:35 AM
I hated the championship, having clubs like Bristol fucking City think they could treat us as equals, watching the Baggies and Wolves think they're suddenly the biggest club in the region and can tell us what it's like to support a big club, seeing players I rate go to clubs like Brighton and Bournemouth to be watched by about 25 fans, the fucking shit coverage, smug twats from clubs like spurs claiming we were ruining Grealish's career by not selling him to them for a couple of million and a kid they don't want.
There's plenty more but at the base level Aston Villa belong in the top division, the stadium, the support and the history all demand nothing less.
[/quote
This should be the view of every Aston Villa fan. I don't 'get 'the championship love, it diminishes our fine club ffs. We need to be in the top flight looking to push on, not going backward to drift in the wilderness.
Think a lot of us just enjoyed watching the team win consistently with a bit of a swagger.
Post by: Nev on June 16, 2020, 10:14:41 AM
Given the binary choice, the top flight wins out every time because we should always aim for bigger and better but personally, looking back over the last 10 years or so I enjoyed our time in the Championship more than our time in the PL.
Post by: Gareth on June 16, 2020, 10:21:26 AM
I think everyone agrees that our rightful place is in the PL but if we don't come up to scratch I'll take the positives from being in the Championship. Winning regularly was one, less hype, less corporate, more games, and travelling as part of a big allocation around the country.
Given the binary choice, the top flight wins out every time because we should always aim for bigger and better but personally, looking back over the last 10 years or so I enjoyed our time in the Championship more than our time in the PL.
& don’t forget the real positive Nev....can enjoy a game with it being ruined by genuinely terrible refs rather than by the utterly horrible VAR
Post by: Drummond on June 16, 2020, 10:54:51 AM
Post by: Nev on June 16, 2020, 12:37:04 PM
Regardless, the lack of crowds will make football shit wherever we are. Which means being in the Championship will be worse next year I'd have thought.
I never though about that, good point.
Post by: levico on June 16, 2020, 02:09:12 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 16, 2020, 02:24:17 PM
Post by: aev on June 17, 2020, 11:29:32 AM
Post by: Gareth on June 17, 2020, 11:58:13 AM
I think FFP will have to be disregarded. The matchday income from tickets, replicas, catering etc will be non-existent and clubs can't therefore be expected to reduce outgoings accordingly.
Can’t see FFP being disregarded unless Man City win their appeal against the European ban - there is no way Man United / Liverpool / Arsenal / Chelsea (who FFP was written to protect) will allow another club with wealthy owners to gatecrash their club by splashing the cash as City did.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 17, 2020, 12:41:57 PM
But personally I enjoyed some parts of the Championship. It was a different experience, we went into every game with a good chance of winning and were competing for a huge prize that we had a realistic chance of winning. The last half of last season was just epic and some of my best times watching Villa.
But for every year you are down there the gap to the top clubs is just widening and harder and harder to bridge. I'm think Purslow said it would take 3 or 4 years in the PL until FFP would allow us to compete financially even with midtable midsize PL clubs. I'm desperate for us to stay up. I just don't want to go down, lose our best players and have to start again.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 17, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
Agree. Particularly with us and Newcastle with new owners in the mix. It might be tweaked to take account of reduced incomes, but not disregared. That drawbridge is well and truly up.I think FFP will have to be disregarded. The matchday income from tickets, replicas, catering etc will be non-existent and clubs can't therefore be expected to reduce outgoings accordingly.
Can’t see FFP being disregarded unless Man City win their appeal against the European ban - there is no way Man United / Liverpool / Arsenal / Chelsea (who FFP was written to protect) will allow another club with wealthy owners to gatecrash their club by splashing the cash as City did.
Post by: Drummond on June 17, 2020, 02:39:21 PM
Agree. Particularly with us and Newcastle with new owners in the mix. It might be tweaked to take account of reduced incomes, but not disregared. That drawbridge is well and truly up.I think FFP will have to be disregarded. The matchday income from tickets, replicas, catering etc will be non-existent and clubs can't therefore be expected to reduce outgoings accordingly.
Can’t see FFP being disregarded unless Man City win their appeal against the European ban - there is no way Man United / Liverpool / Arsenal / Chelsea (who FFP was written to protect) will allow another club with wealthy owners to gatecrash their club by splashing the cash as City did.
Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. I meant in the shorter-term whilst Covid-19 is still having an effect. That could go on for some time and as a result, how can a club be penalised for breaking FFP when they've lost large amounts of income through no fault of their own?
Post by: chrisw1 on June 17, 2020, 04:21:36 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 18, 2020, 11:36:50 AM
Post by: Duncan Shaw on June 19, 2020, 02:05:44 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 19, 2020, 03:39:25 PM
Apparently FFP suspended Europe wide for 12 monthsI wonder how that will work. Does that mean any owner (eg us or Newcastle for example) could chuck in £200m without any future impact on FFP? I very much doubt it but it would be a lovely one off loophole if we stay up.
Edit - answer is no (obviously):
To ease the strain on clubs unable to break even, Uefa announced FFP break-even assessments for 2020 will be postponed for 12 months and looked at alongside the financial year 2021. Uefa says it hopes to neutralise the impact of the pandemic by averaging the combined deficit of 2020 and 2021 and by "further allowing specific Covid-19 adjustments".
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 21, 2020, 12:05:20 AM
Every minute spent outside the top flight diminishes our fine institution.
The second division was made so more clubs could aspire to be like us, not to fucking play against us.
This.
Post by: exigo on June 21, 2020, 11:39:19 AM
Post by: Ad@m on June 21, 2020, 11:49:03 AM
In a bid to find the lightest straw to clutch, I've started contemplating the fact that three of our away games are in the colder north, and the last game in mid July will be played at a ground where the roof keeps most of the pitch in shade. Good for our stamina, right?
Wow! Excellent clutching!!
Post by: myf on June 24, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
One of our biggest threats resulting from relegation will be the loss of key players and the need to restructure once again. Bouncing back after one season would probably be difficult - as we found last time but at least we have engaged and wealthy owners this time
isn't loss of key players a problem for all teams that get relegated? we'll need to replace the big guns but it's a young side with potential. last time we were a basket case and that was truly a rebuild which resulted in us wanking a load of cash and almost going bust.
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2020, 05:58:30 PM
Post by: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
I have now got the answer to the question posed by this thread: It will fuck it up totally.
Yup. Play these three games in front of a full Villa Park and we probably get 2 or 3 more points from them at least.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 06:11:17 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 03, 2020, 10:34:22 PM
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 07, 2020, 12:43:01 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on July 12, 2020, 09:13:15 AM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 12, 2020, 09:39:24 AM
Football returning was supposed to help us all relax a little more, give us something to look forward to. All it's done is increase our anxiety levels! Ah well, it'll all be over soon I guess.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 12, 2020, 02:54:33 PM
Post by: Legion on July 12, 2020, 03:00:18 PM
Then we would probably have had the stress of a long, drawn out, court case like Hearts/Thistle!
At least we'd have stood a chance of winning that.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 12, 2020, 03:01:15 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on July 13, 2020, 02:58:36 AM
So long as none of our defenders were involved in our defence.
It's a cracker!
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 13, 2020, 11:27:36 PM
Hmmm, really not sure I’m following your argument that they’ve performed better without us being on their backs. We appear to be worse off than before lockdown.In fairness I don’t/ didn’t believe it also it was just an alternative thought .
Post by: Legion on July 23, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
Post by: p_ad on July 26, 2020, 06:16:33 PM
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2020, 06:20:15 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 06:21:47 PM
Post by: London Villan on July 26, 2020, 06:21:59 PM
Post by: Rory on July 26, 2020, 06:56:07 PM
I said way back in this thread that I thought we'd stay up (didn't think it would be so heart attack-inducingly close, mind!) but that the clubs who went down could rightly feel hard done by. I still feel that way, and so strongly that I even feel sorry for Troy Deeney.
Having said that, I am off to get drunk and celebrate!
Post by: TheMalandro on July 26, 2020, 07:04:05 PM
Now that it's over, I'd like to say that I still think it was bullshit to complete the season. I am delighted that we stayed up, and firmly believe we did so on merit, but my opposition to Operation Restart (or whatever it was called) was not motivated by self-interest. I still do not think it is fair to change the rules of a competition three quarters of the way through.
I said way back in this thread that I thought we'd stay up (didn't think it would be so heart attack-inducingly close, mind!) but that the clubs who went down could rightly feel hard done by. I still feel that way, and so strongly that I even feel sorry for Troy Deeney.
Having said that, I am off to get drunk and celebrate!
Agree with that.
The whole awful situation, in the end, helped us.
But it does seem ridiculous worrying about football.
Post by: olaftab on July 26, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Post by: Rory on July 26, 2020, 07:23:23 PM
As I said it was a great idea to restart.😳
I think we need to get Brassneck back to debate, and tell us all why we're thinking what we're thinking ;-)
Post by: aev on July 27, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Now that it's over, I'd like to say that I still think it was bullshit to complete the season. I am delighted that we stayed up, and firmly believe we did so on merit, but my opposition to Operation Restart (or whatever it was called) was not motivated by self-interest. I still do not think it is fair to change the rules of a competition three quarters of the way through.
I said way back in this thread that I thought we'd stay up (didn't think it would be so heart attack-inducingly close, mind!) but that the clubs who went down could rightly feel hard done by. I still feel that way, and so strongly that I even feel sorry for Troy Deeney.
Having said that, I am off to get drunk and celebrate!
Agree with that.
The whole awful situation, in the end, helped us.
But it does seem ridiculous worrying about football.
Agree with this too.
Fraser, one of Bournemouth's better players didn't want a short term contract extension. Imagine as fans how we would have felt in that situation.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 28, 2020, 12:50:36 PM
And whilst the games were pretty soulless, it was largely well administered and the clubs got the TV money that many so desperately needed. Ultimately the sky didn't fall in as many predicted and in terms of society trying to get back to some normality post Covid I think overall it was probably a good thing.
Post by: usav on July 28, 2020, 12:57:05 PM
It was a flawed end to the season, but surely a fairer finish than voiding the season or adopting a points per game approach.
And whilst the games were pretty soulless, it was largely well administered and the clubs got the TV money that many so desperately needed. Ultimately the sky didn't fall in as many predicted and in terms of society trying to get back to some normality post Covid I think overall it was probably a good thing.
Totally agree with this. The Premier League (and Bundesliga) set the tone for other sports to return and bring some sense or normality back. They did it the right way, with minimal positive cases.
Of course the atmosphere was missed, but I will say that I was pleasantly surprised at the intensity of the games, these were not practice or warm-up games, they were played in the right spirit and everyone involved should be given some credit.
Post by: old man villa fan on July 28, 2020, 09:56:17 PM
I lost interest with the games as I felt it just wasn't the same. Many seemed to be just going through the motions, although playing through the summer does take its toll on the players. Fortunately the health situation improved and the safety aspects seemed totally over the top by the end.
With the loss of interest, I could not even drum up enthusiasm for Villa and I thought we would be relegated after the Man United match, especially after further awful refereeing decisions. In the end, we pulled together over the last four matches and put a run together that we haven't managed all season.
It all ended well with Villa staying up but I am glad that it is over. I have sympathy for the teams relegated and thank God we are not one of them.
Post by: Legion on July 28, 2020, 10:01:02 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 28, 2020, 10:05:53 PM
Post by: Legion on July 28, 2020, 10:07:27 PM
Post by: Legion on July 28, 2020, 10:08:00 PM
I stopped doing the match threads, that's what made the difference. Game after game I was slaving away doing them, and we didn't win, I decided enough was enough. If the players weren't going to do it then it was up to me to save the club. No more match threads, and the result of me making that supreme sacrifice? W2 D2 L0. Sod all this DS, Jack, Trez saved us nonsense. It's all down to the sacrifice I made.
You're sacked for next season.
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2020, 10:11:13 PM
I stopped doing the match threads, that's what made the difference. Game after game I was slaving away doing them, and we didn't win, I decided enough was enough. If the players weren't going to do it then it was up to me to save the club. No more match threads, and the result of me making that supreme sacrifice? W2 D2 L0. Sod all this DS, Jack, Trez saved us nonsense. It's all down to the sacrifice I made.
As a peace offering to the missus for how annoyed I got during the Man Utd game I agreed to bake something on match days for the rest of the season. 2 were finished before kick off, the others meant I missed a minute or so getting the cakes out of the oven. We won both of the latter. I'll take donations of flour and eggs for next season if anyone is interested.
Post by: Legion on July 28, 2020, 10:15:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2020, 10:17:44 PM
You want us to egg and flour you?
If it'd mean we take 2 points per game on average over next season then I'd be fine with it
Post by: Richard E on July 28, 2020, 10:18:53 PM
Post by: Legion on July 28, 2020, 10:18:57 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 04, 2020, 03:11:19 PM
Post by: Drummond on August 04, 2020, 03:15:14 PM
We’d only finish third. Have you no ambition?
Maybe we need to add hundreds and thousands to the recipe...
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 04, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Bundesliga clubs will be allowed to have fans back in the grounds this September
I was speaking to a German colleague last week who supports Werder Bremmen who ironically had a similar season to ourselves. He told me about the possibility of 50% of fans returning to games in September. The consensus amongst most supporters there is 'All or nothing'.
Post by: Gareth on August 17, 2020, 07:55:09 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on August 17, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
I've seen a few people say 'all or nothing' and I don't really get this. If reduced capacity and other restrictions doesn't appeal then people are free to not go. But why deny the chance of going to those that want to and at the same time allow the clubs to get a bit of income? The atmosphere would also be a little bit less eery, which might help the players and spectacle. I honestly can't see any real down sides.Bundesliga clubs will be allowed to have fans back in the grounds this September
I was speaking to a German colleague last week who supports Werder Bremmen who ironically had a similar season to ourselves. He told me about the possibility of 50% of fans returning to games in September. The consensus amongst most supporters there is 'All or nothing'.
Post by: NeilH on August 18, 2020, 12:19:45 PM
Bundesliga clubs will be allowed to have fans back in the grounds this September
I was speaking to a German colleague last week who supports Werder Bremmen who ironically had a similar season to ourselves. He told me about the possibility of 50% of fans returning to games in September. The consensus amongst most supporters there is 'All or nothing'.
They trialled it out a week or two ago here with a Feyenoord training session. Up front they made it clear that any fan entering the De Kuip had to take distance and refrain from chanting and shouting. Quelle surprise, within minutes of fans entering the stadium all of the aforementioned rules went out of the window. Having been to numerous Bundesliga games, with the best will in the world, I simply cannot see a scenario where fans will behave in a manner that will allow crowds to return. I fear that, as it currently stands and with fans of the elite clubs now being used to only seeing them on tv, the return to football as we know it is far off.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on August 18, 2020, 01:19:21 PM
I've seen a few people say 'all or nothing' and I don't really get this. If reduced capacity and other restrictions doesn't appeal then people are free to not go. But why deny the chance of going to those that want to and at the same time allow the clubs to get a bit of income? The atmosphere would also be a little bit less eery, which might help the players and spectacle. I honestly can't see any real down sides.Bundesliga clubs will be allowed to have fans back in the grounds this September
I was speaking to a German colleague last week who supports Werder Bremmen who ironically had a similar season to ourselves. He told me about the possibility of 50% of fans returning to games in September. The consensus amongst most supporters there is 'All or nothing'.
Whilst I agree with you, the people I’ve seen who are against this are the real hardcore fans who haven’t missed a single game in years, maybe decades. They are potentially going to be in a situation where their long run of attending games comes to an end, whilst other people are attending the game.
At least with BCD, everyone misses out. Selfish possibly, but I also see where they’re coming from.
Post by: DB on August 18, 2020, 01:24:44 PM
Bundesliga clubs will be allowed to have fans back in the grounds this September
I was speaking to a German colleague last week who supports Werder Bremmen who ironically had a similar season to ourselves. He told me about the possibility of 50% of fans returning to games in September. The consensus amongst most supporters there is 'All or nothing'.
Small Heath hoping for 30% then they can say they have sold out a match.
Post by: Mister E on August 18, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
No surprise, Neil, as you say.Bundesliga clubs will be allowed to have fans back in the grounds this September
I was speaking to a German colleague last week who supports Werder Bremmen who ironically had a similar season to ourselves. He told me about the possibility of 50% of fans returning to games in September. The consensus amongst most supporters there is 'All or nothing'.
They trialled it out a week or two ago here with a Feyenoord training session. Up front they made it clear that any fan entering the De Kuip had to take distance and refrain from chanting and shouting. Quelle surprise, within minutes of fans entering the stadium all of the aforementioned rules went out of the window. Having been to numerous Bundesliga games, with the best will in the world, I simply cannot see a scenario where fans will behave in a manner that will allow crowds to return. I fear that, as it currently stands and with fans of the elite clubs now being used to only seeing them on tv, the return to football as we know it is far off.
Post by: FatSam on August 18, 2020, 03:42:25 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 06, 2020, 02:31:48 PM
Spurs opting to let the highest paying fans in.
How about the most loyal ones?
https://twitter.com/Matt_Law_DT/status/1302504378675462144?s=19
Post by: Ads on September 06, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 06, 2020, 02:36:47 PM
Post by: Risso on September 22, 2020, 11:35:42 AM
I think it's important to recognise that covid-19 is still a major impact and that UK prime minister Boris Johnson will be addressing issues this evening in a broadcast including the likelihood of include a further 'delay' of spectators returning to Premier League because the situation to Covid in the country is severe
Stay safe everyone
The delay of supporters being allowed back has already been announced this morning Footy.
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 22, 2020, 11:41:31 AM
Post by: in exile on September 22, 2020, 11:46:27 AM
I have a horrible feeling we could be in national lockdown again in November.
Post by: sid1964 on September 22, 2020, 11:49:25 AM
There just seems no end with cov-id not just in the uk but also in Europe
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 22, 2020, 11:58:35 AM
Have to remember, we were totally unprepared socially and psychologically for that. Compare things like mask usage nowadays versus back then, as well as social distancing measures in public places. Plus I don't think the will would be there to do quite that much damage to the economy again.
What I do think is piss poor is how ramshackle the approach to all this is. Two or three weeks ago begging people to start going to the office and buying their lunch at Pret, to now suggesting working at home for a bit longer is a sensible idea after all.
Anyway, back to the oriiginal point, they won't stop football this time, I don't think.
Post by: Chris Smith on September 22, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
Post by: Dave on September 22, 2020, 12:09:09 PM
The Whitty and Vallance show yesterday suggested we’ve got a further 6 months of restrictions coming up. If so then I think there’s a strong possibility that the whole of this season will be spectator free.
I reckon there are going to be quite a few clubs outside the Premier League who go under as a result.
Post by: in exile on September 22, 2020, 12:10:58 PM
Agreed. Many down the pyramid too.The Whitty and Vallance show yesterday suggested we’ve got a further 6 months of restrictions coming up. If so then I think there’s a strong possibility that the whole of this season will be spectator free.
I reckon there are going to be quite a few clubs outside the Premier League who go under as a result.
Post by: Ad@m on September 22, 2020, 12:14:40 PM
I also don't think club casualties will be limited to below the Premier League - wasn't it Burnley who said that before things started up again they were two months away from running out of cash?
Player contracts were signed on the assumption of a certain degree of gate and merchandise revenue - if we don't see crowds back in grounds this season there could be some Premier League casualties.
Post by: Chris Smith on September 22, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
The Whitty and Vallance show yesterday suggested we’ve got a further 6 months of restrictions coming up. If so then I think there’s a strong possibility that the whole of this season will be spectator free.
I reckon there are going to be quite a few clubs outside the Premier League who go under as a result.
True, unless the government offer some sort of support It’s difficult to see how they can function. It throws into focus again the huge disparity between the money at the top of the game and the rest. Perhaps the ever generous Premier League will help out.
Post by: London Villan on September 22, 2020, 12:36:30 PM
Post by: sid1964 on September 22, 2020, 12:58:46 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2020, 01:07:50 PM
Normally I'd be buzzing after an opening day win but I'd already forgotten about it this morning, everything just feels detached but it's for the greater good of course.
Having 40k back in VP even in May seems a remote possibility, can only hope we get to August 2021 and feel again what a football fan does on opening day of season/morning of first home game.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2020, 01:10:55 PM
I reckon we are weeks away from another stop in football being played
There just seems no end with cov-id not just in the uk but also in Europe
I get the feeling football will just try to play through things e.g. players testing positive will just been seen like any other injury and teams will play on unless there's a massive outbreak. Gundogan missed Man. City match and they've had other cases in last few weeks but no thought of matches being postponed, same for PSG in France.
Of course a national lockdown changes everything.
If football is stopped for a few weeks I simply can't see how the season would finish given how congested the season already is, would probably have to cancel FA cup to fit in the domestic schedule.
Post by: sickbeggar on September 22, 2020, 01:14:09 PM
Post by: Ian. on September 22, 2020, 01:16:09 PM
The TV money involved in the Premier League is obscene and if they could not help these lower league clubs it would be an absolute travesty. The Ollie Watkin's of this world from academy's like Exeter could be a thing of the past and to think our fee to Brentford and the sell on to Exeter could keep them afloat, you realise it should not take much to help out across the leagues.The Whitty and Vallance show yesterday suggested we’ve got a further 6 months of restrictions coming up. If so then I think there’s a strong possibility that the whole of this season will be spectator free.
I reckon there are going to be quite a few clubs outside the Premier League who go under as a result.
True, unless the government offer some sort of support It’s difficult to see how they can function. It throws into focus again the huge disparity between the money at the top of the game and the rest. Perhaps the ever generous Premier League will help out.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2020, 01:16:41 PM
Post by: sid1964 on September 22, 2020, 01:18:40 PM
Post by: Ad@m on September 22, 2020, 04:19:25 PM
Leyton Orient v Tottenham: Carabao Cup tie called off after positive coronavirus tests - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54248560
Round 4 matches are played next week and there's no time to reschedule.
Be interesting to see what the Football League do - if they kick Orient out for failure to complete, won't that just encourage clubs to try to hide positive cases?!
Post by: sickbeggar on September 22, 2020, 04:55:28 PM
Here's the first test for the football authorities:
Leyton Orient v Tottenham: Carabao Cup tie called off after positive coronavirus tests - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54248560
Round 4 matches are played next week and there's no time to reschedule.
Be interesting to see what the Football League do - if they kick Orient out for failure to complete, won't that just encourage clubs to try to hide positive cases?!
Well yeah, that's why I think the season will be cancelled. Presumably you're in close contact training with other players, so doesn't that mean by definition you all have to go into quarantine for 10 days? So if Grealish tested positive today wouldn't he put the kyber on both our players and sheff united's last nite. I realise they test them frequently but as I understand its not fool-proof so if a player got really ill wouldn't the club be legally responsible or do they sign disclaimers?
Post by: Chris Smith on September 22, 2020, 07:03:26 PM
Here's the first test for the football authorities:
Leyton Orient v Tottenham: Carabao Cup tie called off after positive coronavirus tests - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54248560
Round 4 matches are played next week and there's no time to reschedule.
Be interesting to see what the Football League do - if they kick Orient out for failure to complete, won't that just encourage clubs to try to hide positive cases?!
I can see that they might be tempted. Clubs can’t test the samples themselves, they have neither the equipment nor the expertise, so they’d need the collusion of the labs to do that which I can’t see happening.
Post by: CT on September 22, 2020, 07:08:14 PM
The Whitty and Vallance show yesterday suggested we’ve got a further 6 months of restrictions coming up. If so then I think there’s a strong possibility that the whole of this season will be spectator free.
Absolutely. We won’t be back for some time now.
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 22, 2020, 07:27:51 PM
Post by: Rigadon on September 22, 2020, 07:29:12 PM
We're finally going to win the cup this season aren't we?
Yes.
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 22, 2020, 07:31:29 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on September 22, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
Post by: colin69 on September 22, 2020, 07:51:22 PM
Post by: KRS on September 22, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on September 22, 2020, 07:56:19 PM
No season tickets, ballot between last season's st holders. Fairest all round, really.
Post by: Chris Smith on September 22, 2020, 07:59:04 PM
Two West Ham players just confirmed as testing positive for Covid and have been sent home to self isolate. It feels like it’s only a matter of time the way this is spreading again now.
Moyes also tested positive.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 22, 2020, 08:26:18 PM
I thought that they cancelled the football in Portugal last weekend due to a rise in cov-id cases?
Just the Sporting game with Gil Vicente. Sporting had 10 players out plus their coach while Gil Vicente managed 10 players and 5 coaching team infected. All asymptomatic.
Post by: The Edge on September 22, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
I think it's highly unlikely this season won't be cancelled. You just have to see updates to restrictions being added every day/hour. Very reminiscent to before the original lockdown. Someone has seen the figures and projections we haven't yet and they realise its going to go tits up. Only thing stopping a national lockdown now is the political damage imo.If the season was to be scrapped it would spell the end of football as we know it in this country. The only way it could survive would be to mothball all grounds, and furlough every member of staff at each and every club. No games= no income.
Post by: Ad@m on September 22, 2020, 08:27:38 PM
Here's the first test for the football authorities:
Leyton Orient v Tottenham: Carabao Cup tie called off after positive coronavirus tests - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54248560
Round 4 matches are played next week and there's no time to reschedule.
Be interesting to see what the Football League do - if they kick Orient out for failure to complete, won't that just encourage clubs to try to hide positive cases?!
I can see that they might be tempted. Clubs can’t test the samples themselves, they have neither the equipment nor the expertise, so they’d need the collusion of the labs to do that which I can’t see happening.
I was thinking more along the lines of clubs telling players with a cough or a fever to go home "injured" on the quiet.
Ultimately, clubs shouldn't be punished for doing the right thing, which is what will happen if Orient have to forfeit.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 22, 2020, 10:30:08 PM
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2020, 10:38:51 PM
And rather than goal difference it should be on goals conceded.
Post by: sickbeggar on September 22, 2020, 10:40:46 PM
I think it's highly unlikely this season won't be cancelled. You just have to see updates to restrictions being added every day/hour. Very reminiscent to before the original lockdown. Someone has seen the figures and projections we haven't yet and they realise its going to go tits up. Only thing stopping a national lockdown now is the political damage imo.If the season was to be scrapped it would spell the end of football as we know it in this country. The only way it could survive would be to mothball all grounds, and furlough every member of staff at each and every club. No games= no income.
I totally agree. Thing is at the moment there is a balancing act between keeping sport going, schools open, business working and the collateral damage of deaths, with public opinion the judge. My view is it only takes a death or two of a school kid or a footballer in a coma and it will go full lockdown
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 23, 2020, 12:02:57 AM
Post by: OCD on September 23, 2020, 12:25:05 AM
Post by: placeforparks on September 23, 2020, 11:54:05 AM
Here's the first test for the football authorities:
Leyton Orient v Tottenham: Carabao Cup tie called off after positive coronavirus tests - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54248560
Round 4 matches are played next week and there's no time to reschedule.
Be interesting to see what the Football League do - if they kick Orient out for failure to complete, won't that just encourage clubs to try to hide positive cases?!
I can see that they might be tempted. Clubs can’t test the samples themselves, they have neither the equipment nor the expertise, so they’d need the collusion of the labs to do that which I can’t see happening.
I was thinking more along the lines of clubs telling players with a cough or a fever to go home "injured" on the quiet.
Ultimately, clubs shouldn't be punished for doing the right thing, which is what will happen if Orient have to forfeit.
i'd heard on the london news, that spurs had paid orient's costs for the tests!
apparently testing isn't mandatory in the efl, so there could be loads of asymptomatic players/staff!
Post by: Drummond on September 23, 2020, 12:47:03 PM
Liverpool were able to fulfill a fixture last season with their whole first team squad out of the country.
Nah, you must be mistaken, the records clearly show their first team lost to the might of Aston Villa.
Post by: The Edge on September 23, 2020, 12:55:15 PM
Yes it's a pickle alright. A forensically accurate track and trace system is the best way out of this situation in my view or a reliable vaccine but neither seem to be on the cards any time soon. The country cannot sustain the economy for much longer and football is run in a precarious way financially as it is. The outlook is bleak however you look at it.I think it's highly unlikely this season won't be cancelled. You just have to see updates to restrictions being added every day/hour. Very reminiscent to before the original lockdown. Someone has seen the figures and projections we haven't yet and they realise its going to go tits up. Only thing stopping a national lockdown now is the political damage imo.If the season was to be scrapped it would spell the end of football as we know it in this country. The only way it could survive would be to mothball all grounds, and furlough every member of staff at each and every club. No games= no income.
I totally agree. Thing is at the moment there is a balancing act between keeping sport going, schools open, business working and the collateral damage of deaths, with public opinion the judge. My view is it only takes a death or two of a school kid or a footballer in a coma and it will go full lockdown
Post by: chrisw1 on September 23, 2020, 01:07:18 PM
As for a footballer in a coma etc, it's highly unlikely. I'm sure I heard a stat that anybody under 50 without health conditions is more likley to die in a car accident than of the virus.
Post by: fredm on September 23, 2020, 05:05:11 PM
Post by: Ad@m on September 25, 2020, 11:17:33 AM
Carabao Cup: Tottenham handed bye into fourth round after Leyton Orient tie called off - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54295512
I think there's a genuine risk now that clubs try to hide covid cases amongst their players if they get penalised for doing the right thing.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 25, 2020, 11:23:08 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 25, 2020, 12:34:00 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on September 25, 2020, 12:40:45 PM
What a load of bollocks.
seconded
UTV
The Doc
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 25, 2020, 01:06:58 PM
Post by: Legion on September 25, 2020, 01:37:08 PM
Shit outcome but not sure what other decision they could have come up with.
Naked wrestling between the two managers. First one thrown over the top rope loses.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 25, 2020, 01:38:05 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 25, 2020, 01:39:48 PM
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 25, 2020, 01:41:17 PM
Would keep the betting companies happy!Shit outcome but not sure what other decision they could have come up with.
Naked wrestling between the two managers. First one thrown over the top rope loses.
Post by: charlatan on September 25, 2020, 09:02:57 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54298824
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 25, 2020, 09:16:57 PM
If they want that to happen then perhaps they'll suddenly realise that the way forward is for the rich to sacrifice some of their wealth to help the poor? A kind of redistribution of wealth across society, like, you know, they've been arguing against since they first sucked nanny's tit?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 25, 2020, 10:33:51 PM
Well that's just screwed over the smaller clubs even more.
Carabao Cup: Tottenham handed bye into fourth round after Leyton Orient tie called off - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54295512
I think there's a genuine risk now that clubs try to hide covid cases amongst their players if they get penalised for doing the right thing.
I get the feeling it was something FA wanted given Spurs fixture schedule. If they didn't have all these euro games v FC Timbuktu then you could've just played it in 10 days or something but little space in schedule and eventually you'd play it when other teams are 2-3 rounds ahead.
At least Spurs giving them tests meant Walsall players didn't get infected and the weekend match got called off in time.
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on September 25, 2020, 10:55:44 PM
European clubs wouldn’t want to release their South American players to go and play in countries heavily effected, although they’d be obliged to, and players potentially having to quarantine upon their return. This could cause us problems with Doug and Martinez.
Post by: Dave P on December 02, 2020, 09:46:30 AM
The last game to play in front of a full crowd.
The first game back after the restart.
The first game to be postponed due to Covid.
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 02, 2020, 09:54:17 AM
Post by: Ad@m on December 29, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
Everton getting a bit pissy with the Prem over their cancelled game with Man City too.
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 29, 2020, 07:48:31 PM
Post by: Legion on December 29, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 29, 2020, 07:57:18 PM
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2020, 08:25:05 PM
Excellent. Cancel proceedings now. 5th will do nicely.
3rd on points per game.
Post by: Drummond on December 29, 2020, 11:04:07 PM
Post by: Nev on December 29, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
Fat Sam very concerned apparently.... After a 5-0 defeat of course.
So concerned he was wearing his mask incorrectly the other day at Anfield.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on December 30, 2020, 07:16:48 AM
Just 13 days later following a 5-0 home defeat he expresses concern for his own health and football in general and calls for a circuit break.
If Sandwell had won would he have been expressing the same health concerns ?
Should this really be posted in the Coronavirus c**t thread ?
Post by: London Villan on December 30, 2020, 07:21:24 AM
Post by: CT on December 30, 2020, 07:24:56 AM
Fat Sam very concerned apparently.... After a 5-0 defeat of course.
So concerned he was wearing his mask incorrectly the other day at Anfield.
His chin received full protection.
Post by: TonyD on December 30, 2020, 07:58:03 AM
So let it carry on. Great morale booster for the people.
Post by: Ad@m on December 30, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
The vast majority of those involved in the game are young and very fit. So won’t die.
So let it carry on. Great morale booster for the people.
I'm sure they'll be glad to hear that the ones you expect to die are acceptable collateral damage to boost the nation's morale!
PS For what feels like the millionth time, Covid-19 affects people in more ways than just killing them - just ask these guys https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55400922
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
In postponing our game vs Newcastle the PL created a precedent that went against their own rules which has now caused them a big problem.
I see there was an official statement from Everton asking to see the evidence for the Man City postponement.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2020, 10:00:17 AM
The vast majority of those involved in the game are young and very fit. So won’t die.
So let it carry on. Great morale booster for the people.
Blimey. Without getting into whether it should go on or not that’s quite the line to draw.
Post by: Ian. on December 30, 2020, 10:12:41 AM
The vast majority of those involved in the game are young and very fit. So won’t die.I presume then the staff at football clubs, players and managers are all very similar to teachers, class room assistants, school cooks and cleaners and are immune to this illness already.
So let it carry on. Great morale booster for the people.
Post by: WarszaVillan on December 30, 2020, 10:17:57 AM
The vast majority of those involved in the game are young and very fit. So won’t die.I presume then the staff at football clubs, players and managers are all very similar to teachers, class room assistants, school cooks and cleaners and are immune to this illness already.
So let it carry on. Great morale booster for the people.
A great morale boost, unless you're on the receiving end https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/18/newcastle-manager-steve-bruce-shocked-by-effect-of-covid-on-players
Post by: TonyD on December 30, 2020, 10:48:18 AM
The idea that these young footballers will just brush it off is alIt was meant to be tongue in cheek..The vast majority of those involved in the game are young and very fit. So won’t die.I presume then the staff at football clubs, players and managers are all very similar to teachers, class room assistants, school cooks and cleaners and are immune to this illness already.
So let it carry on. Great morale booster for the people.
A great morale boost, unless you're on the receiving end https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/18/newcastle-manager-steve-bruce-shocked-by-effect-of-covid-on-players
Post by: andyh on December 30, 2020, 10:54:55 AM
It was a good enough reason to justify ‘project restart’.The idea that these young footballers will just brush it off is alIt was meant to be tongue in cheek..The vast majority of those involved in the game are young and very fit. So won’t die.I presume then the staff at football clubs, players and managers are all very similar to teachers, class room assistants, school cooks and cleaners and are immune to this illness already.
So let it carry on. Great morale booster for the people.
A great morale boost, unless you're on the receiving end https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/18/newcastle-manager-steve-bruce-shocked-by-effect-of-covid-on-players
Post by: Dave P on December 30, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Fat Sam very concerned apparently.... After a 5-0 defeat of course.
So concerned he was wearing his mask incorrectly the other day at Anfield.
His chin received full protection.
Well one of his chins did at least
Post by: passport1 on December 30, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
An overweight 66 year old multi millionaire comes out of a 2 year retirement during an unprecedented year long pandemic at the very time when a new much more contagious variant of that virus has been confirmed in this country leading to higher rates of infection.
Just 13 days later following a 5-0 home defeat he expresses concern for his own health and football in general and calls for a circuit break.
If Sandwell had won would he have been expressing the same health concerns ?
Should this really be posted in the Coronavirus c**t thread ?
Yes
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2020, 01:11:23 PM
Post by: darren woolley on December 30, 2020, 01:45:54 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 30, 2020, 01:47:03 PM
There's a real bad virus that is very real so maybe we could be bit more respecting to the situation
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 30, 2020, 01:56:19 PM
I wish this virus would just disappear too many people dying and suffering through it.
Well said DW Well said.
Small saving grace is how amazing Villa are playing amd prominent performances but this nightmare is really real. So sad. I rather have football stopped if saves lives whatever impact it has to the season.
Another nice thing is theres also a lot of solidarity here when we discuss on h and v and that is also a very good thing. more so at this time to read and write but Darren am in agreement Covid-19 needs a straight Red not just for football matters. Hoping the vaccine and lockdowns help us sooner
And wish you all best for 21 as much as best wishes can be made at this time
Up the Villa.
Post by: Gareth on December 30, 2020, 03:38:54 PM
Not sure what a short circuit breaker would achieve other than letting all players and staff to be in home/training ground only environments for a period whilst they test more?
One thing that does always strike me as weird is that before the game they’ve made a thing of not doing the handshake bit yet at the end of the game you have all players & officials wandering round hugging / shaking hands - I get that players on field are in contact but why does one assistant mgr need to hug the other teams goalie coach??
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2020, 04:55:46 PM
Play on. The bubbles and testing are rigorous, if the players don't want to play, then that is their choice, but we all heard SJM; they're desperate to play.
Post by: OCD on December 30, 2020, 04:59:02 PM
Premier League is well tested and does as much as possible to ensure the safety of players. The lower leagues are at a greater risk.
Post by: andyh on December 30, 2020, 05:35:40 PM
It is obviously being managed, incredibly well.
Post by: CT on December 30, 2020, 05:36:31 PM
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2020, 05:37:47 PM
Considering how many people are involved in football - players, management, coaches, training ground staff, stadia staff, TV people, journalists, multiplied by the number of teams, the number of divisions, the number of games, then the numbers of positive cases appears minuscule.
It obviously being managed, incredibly well.
I did the tour back in August (6 months since the Spurs game!) and they showed us all the COVID protocols. Very impressive.
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 30, 2020, 05:40:44 PM
Neville is right, it would be pointless. If we're off for two weeks, they're going to need to train anyway and they're still knocking about in general society, so what changes.
Play on. The bubbles and testing are rigorous, if the players don't want to play, then that is their choice, but we all heard SJM; they're desperate to play.
If the bubbles and testing are rigorous why are there so many problems? Newcastle, Sheffield United, Southampton, Man City, Fulham, all affected. Seven League One games off in the last round of fixtures.
If they aren't doing all that they can then they need to fix it. If they are taking every reasonable precaution and it is still happening then, sadly, I think a break would be for the best. Agree that two weeks would make no difference though, would have to be at least a month.
Post by: Baldy on December 30, 2020, 05:41:08 PM
Millions stay at home to watch matches and this is essential in not spreading the virus and potentially saving many lives.
Just a thought. ::)
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2020, 05:44:52 PM
Neville is right, it would be pointless. If we're off for two weeks, they're going to need to train anyway and they're still knocking about in general society, so what changes.
Play on. The bubbles and testing are rigorous, if the players don't want to play, then that is their choice, but we all heard SJM; they're desperate to play.
If the bubbles and testing are rigorous why are there so many problems? Newcastle, Sheffield United, Southampton, Man City, Fulham, all affected. Seven League One games off in the last round of fixtures.
If they aren't doing all that they can then they need to fix it. If they are taking every reasonable precaution and it is still happening then, sadly, I think a break would be for the best. Agree that two weeks would make no difference though, would have to be at least a month.
Some alleged things with regards to at least one team. But its a tiny fraction with regards to the rest. Its winter, absolutely peak time for respiratory illness, there will always be some cases.
Post by: London Villan on December 30, 2020, 05:52:48 PM
Post by: Ian. on December 30, 2020, 06:07:05 PM
Post by: andyh on December 30, 2020, 06:13:03 PM
I guess a two week circuit breaker would be as useful as the Government’s haphazard approach to half hearted lockdowns. Surely like everything else, a full lockdown like we had last March is what’s needed to slow the spread to levels the NHS can cope with.I doubt many affected footballers are a drain on the NHS.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2020, 06:33:43 PM
There are hundreds of “ officials”
I don’t see how a 2 week lock down will work.
Post by: Ian. on December 30, 2020, 06:43:58 PM
What I’m saying is the two week circuit breaker will probably be pointless.I guess a two week circuit breaker would be as useful as the Government’s haphazard approach to half hearted lockdowns. Surely like everything else, a full lockdown like we had last March is what’s needed to slow the spread to levels the NHS can cope with.I doubt many affected footballers are a drain on the NHS.
Post by: oishiiniku on December 30, 2020, 07:41:26 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 31, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 31, 2020, 07:43:07 PM
It would be interesting to know if one of the mancC players tested positive was K Walker?
It was I think, I'm pretty sure i saw him and Jesus named.
Post by: hipkiss92 on December 31, 2020, 07:51:10 PM
Have seen a couple of pundits note that a two week break would only really mean 4-5 days off for the players anyway once time for training / pre match prep is allowed for.What I’m saying is the two week circuit breaker will probably be pointless.I guess a two week circuit breaker would be as useful as the Government’s haphazard approach to half hearted lockdowns. Surely like everything else, a full lockdown like we had last March is what’s needed to slow the spread to levels the NHS can cope with.I doubt many affected footballers are a drain on the NHS.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 31, 2020, 08:00:45 PM
I wonder if any more clubs will produce positive tests here or abroad: possibly in the Bundesliga? ;)It would be interesting to know if one of the mancC players tested positive was K Walker?
It was I think, I'm pretty sure i saw him and Jesus named.
Post by: paul_e on December 31, 2020, 08:46:03 PM
Post by: CT on January 01, 2021, 08:42:15 AM
If the rumours are even remotely true Everton should appeal against the decision to postpone the game.
It’s the reaction of the other clubs who had games postponed that I find interesting.
When our game against Newcastle got canned, we accepted it without question. Everton on the other hand have demanded to know what’s gone on and want a full investigation.
Post by: Rigadon on January 01, 2021, 08:56:10 AM
Post by: Risso on January 01, 2021, 11:09:02 AM
At least there should be a rigorous protocol for postponing games so well done to Everton for asking some questions.
Post by: paul_e on January 01, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 01, 2021, 12:25:20 PM
Postponing it 4 hours before kick off with the opposition being given very few details is poor. To then be back in full training 3 days later makes things even more questionable. Add in the rumours of how the virus got into the club and it starts to look like they've taken the piss.You mean the club that got off with Financial impropriety by refusing to co- operate.
They have form.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 01, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
Allegedly.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 02, 2021, 12:31:51 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 02, 2021, 02:38:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 02, 2021, 03:31:59 PM
Rumours of a Man Ciy and England defender with "previous" organising an orgy at which several players caught coronavirus. Probably bollocks but you never know.And a player who so far has found it difficult to get over to Manchester flying over from Westphalia in a private jet to join the party.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2021, 04:13:18 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2021, 10:36:30 AM
Post by: baddowvillans on January 03, 2021, 01:45:49 PM
an excellent question. If the cancelling team or their players have been reckless why should another club be made to suffer?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 03, 2021, 02:09:32 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2021, 02:11:54 PM
"And will Lamela or Lo Celso get the Jack treatment in the media?"Agree, they either field a team or give up the points.
an excellent question. If the cancelling team or their players have been reckless why should another club be made to suffer?
Post by: CT on January 03, 2021, 02:15:01 PM
"And will Lamela or Lo Celso get the Jack treatment in the media?"
an excellent question. If the cancelling team or their players have been reckless why should another club be made to suffer?
I’m sure P**** M***** will give them the same treatment on national morning television as he did with Jack.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 04, 2021, 08:17:42 PM
Post by: Richard E on January 04, 2021, 08:23:32 PM
Did I hear that right? The football has been stopped again?
No. ‘Elite’ sport continues.
Post by: LukeJames on January 04, 2021, 08:26:12 PM
Did I hear that right? The football has been stopped again?
No. ‘Elite’ sport continues.
So Blues have to stop?
Post by: OCD on January 04, 2021, 08:31:31 PM
Post by: mrfuse on January 04, 2021, 08:37:03 PM
Did I hear that right? The football has been stopped again?
No. ‘Elite’ sport continues.
So Blues have to stop?
Best comment of the night
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 04, 2021, 08:56:35 PM
Post by: OCD on January 04, 2021, 09:04:11 PM
Post by: oishiiniku on January 04, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Post by: andyh on January 04, 2021, 09:11:24 PM
They should just cancel the FA Cup this season.Eh? Why ?
Post by: Steve67 on January 04, 2021, 10:29:59 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 04, 2021, 10:39:49 PM
Post by: andyh on January 05, 2021, 07:12:44 AM
It will ‘boost the morale of the country’ no end if the rags and the boggies get relegated.
Post by: Gareth on January 05, 2021, 08:28:34 AM
They should just cancel the FA Cup this season.
Absolutely not....if they want to cancel anything they can start with the Champions League & Europa League, stop hundreds & hundreds of players/officials country hopping through Europe
Post by: chrisw1 on January 05, 2021, 09:50:55 AM
Perhaps they should call a halt with all top level football for a month or so, get the vaccines sorted and then start again in February? We are then a month closer to bringing the fans back too.The problem here is the Euros are in June and they don't want to move them.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 05, 2021, 10:40:59 AM
Should just cancel them full stop. Weren't they still planning to have the games in several countries instead of just 1 or 2? Madness, on all sorts of levels, even in a "normal" year!Perhaps they should call a halt with all top level football for a month or so, get the vaccines sorted and then start again in February? We are then a month closer to bringing the fans back too.The problem here is the Euros are in June and they don't want to move them.
Finish the domestic seasons if possible in each country to determine next season's league placing and have a fresh start next season.
Post by: Richard E on January 05, 2021, 11:04:47 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 05, 2021, 03:56:38 PM
Should just cancel them full stop. Weren't they still planning to have the games in several countries instead of just 1 or 2? Madness, on all sorts of levels, even in a "normal" year!Perhaps they should call a halt with all top level football for a month or so, get the vaccines sorted and then start again in February? We are then a month closer to bringing the fans back too.The problem here is the Euros are in June and they don't want to move them.
Finish the domestic seasons if possible in each country to determine next season's league placing and have a fresh start next season.
It was Champions League / Europa that should have been stopped....let domestic competitions take precedence with no pointless air travel - would have freed up plenty of midweeks to play any games postponed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 05, 2021, 04:41:42 PM
This can't go on, surely, what with this more infectious strain.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 05, 2021, 06:03:33 PM
Without going into too much detail as much as I shout and ball at the tv when Tyrone does his once a match cock up, having something to look forward to each week does help my mental well being. Living on your own ain’t easy. I’m sure I’m not ‘alone’ in this view.
Post by: Gareth on January 05, 2021, 06:44:26 PM
I’m firmly of the mind that bans should be in place for players ie Mandy / Mitrovic / the Palace lad / the Spurs & West Ham guys should be 3 game bans - if a club is found to have to postpone a game because of misbehaving players it should be 5 point deductions
Post by: OCD on January 05, 2021, 06:46:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 05, 2021, 07:00:45 PM
Post by: exigo on January 05, 2021, 07:11:10 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 06, 2021, 12:07:51 PM
Post by: aev on January 07, 2021, 02:37:58 PM
Post by: jwarry on January 07, 2021, 02:39:03 PM
Bodymoor Heath closed.
That’s not good
Post by: bilsim on January 07, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
A large number of first team players and staff returned positive tests after being routinely tested on Monday and immediately went into isolation.
A second round of testing was carried out immediately and produced more positive results today.
First team training ahead of tomorrow’s FA Cup match with Liverpool was cancelled.
Discussions are ongoing between medical representatives of the Club, the Football Association and the Premier League.
Post by: Nev on January 07, 2021, 02:42:05 PM
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 07, 2021, 02:44:54 PM
Post by: simon ward 50 on January 07, 2021, 02:45:58 PM
What's a large number in this context?
Post by: purpletrousers on January 07, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
Post by: andyh on January 07, 2021, 02:47:52 PM
Aren’t FA cup rules different to the league.
Post by: Nev on January 07, 2021, 02:50:03 PM
Post by: Walmley_Villa on January 07, 2021, 02:51:33 PM
Post by: Rudy65 on January 07, 2021, 02:53:09 PM
Post by: andyh on January 07, 2021, 02:53:19 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 07, 2021, 02:57:09 PM
Ultimately thought I remember the outcry when Newcastle cancelled our game with a few on here and elsewhere saying they should've sent the under 16s along.
We're in the same situation now and doubt we'll get permission to postpone this although it should be like that game was.
Post by: Drummond on January 07, 2021, 02:57:16 PM
If we can’t get a decent team out I would rather Liverpool have a bye. I doN’t want a thrashing from them lot
They'll want revenge for the quarter final last season....
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 07, 2021, 02:59:55 PM
Or just play this game on 4th round weekend. Not ideal but could just about be squeezed in.
Post by: Risso on January 07, 2021, 03:01:14 PM
If we can cobble together 14 players, won’t this go ahead?
Aren’t FA cup rules different to the league.
The 14 players was the original rule for the Premier League, but there have been numerous games now what that hasn't been enforced. I don't know what the FA rules are but I'd be amazed if the game goes ahead.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 07, 2021, 03:02:40 PM
(and award it to the 1957 winners)
Post by: OCD on January 07, 2021, 03:03:07 PM
Post by: eric woolban woolban on January 07, 2021, 03:05:17 PM
Post by: andyh on January 07, 2021, 03:06:07 PM
See Derby tomorrow.If we can cobble together 14 players, won’t this go ahead?
Aren’t FA cup rules different to the league.
The 14 players was the original rule for the Premier League, but there have been numerous games now what that hasn't been enforced. I don't know what the FA rules are but I'd be amazed if the game goes ahead.
Post by: Legion on January 07, 2021, 03:16:19 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 07, 2021, 03:17:02 PM
Actually just seen Southampton-Shrewsbury got postponed a few hours back so games can be called off and played at a later date although could well have to be a Monday after weekend fixtures if there's a spare midweek sometime in February.Until later, or until its fate is decided?
Or just play this game on 4th round weekend. Not ideal but could just about be squeezed in.
From the beeb, "The Football Association's professional game board will decide what will happen with the fixture "early next week"."
Post by: OCD on January 07, 2021, 03:18:44 PM
Post by: ajmant on January 07, 2021, 03:28:49 PM
Post by: fbriai on January 07, 2021, 03:29:08 PM
13/01 AVFC v Spurs
16/01 AVFC v Everton
17/01 LFC v Man U
20/01 Man City v AVFC
21/01 LFC v Burnley
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2021, 03:33:03 PM
This suggests they need to think about how they’re going to get a better handle on this. They either need to stop or get tighter controls in place.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2021, 03:35:00 PM
Post by: amfy on January 07, 2021, 03:41:04 PM
Post by: Dave P on January 07, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
Edit: Just saw the official statement does reference first teamers.
Post by: Risso on January 07, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
I promise this was nothing to do with me!
Come off it Amfy, I saw those pictures of you on a night out with Grealish and Barkley.
Post by: darren woolley on January 07, 2021, 03:58:05 PM
Post by: amfy on January 07, 2021, 03:59:13 PM
I promise this was nothing to do with me!
Come off it Amfy, I saw those pictures of you on a night out with Grealish and Barkley.
What’s a girl supposed to do? Those guys are such a laugh & so pretty!
Post by: Gerrin on January 07, 2021, 04:12:41 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 07, 2021, 04:14:47 PM
Only a matter of time before the season is postponed imo, this is only going to get worse over the next few weeks. I can see the Euros being kicked cancelled too.t some point football is going to have to prioritise which events take priority.
with the vacine there is every possibility the euros and domestic leagues will complete.
Post by: jwarry on January 07, 2021, 04:18:53 PM
Post by: Gerrin on January 07, 2021, 04:21:17 PM
Only a matter of time before the season is postponed imo, this is only going to get worse over the next few weeks. I can see the Euros being kicked cancelled too.t some point football is going to have to prioritise which events take priority.
with the vacine there is every possibility the euros and domestic leagues will complete.
I hope you're right, but I think a PL break is inevitable at the moment. Any postponement is bound to put the Euros in jeopardy. As well the cross-Europe format is exactly ideal in the current situation, it should really be held within one country, if it's going to go ahead.
Post by: Gerrin on January 07, 2021, 04:22:32 PM
If football is so important to the mental health of the nation, why haven’t the PL secured vaccines to take away the fear of cancellation?
I don't think that would be to well received amongst frontline NHS staff atm.
Post by: frank black on January 07, 2021, 04:31:10 PM
If football is so important to the mental health of the nation, why haven’t the PL secured vaccines to take away the fear of cancellation?
I don't think that would be to well received amongst frontline NHS staff atm.
Just imagine (righty) the outrage
Post by: olaftab on January 07, 2021, 04:37:00 PM
If football is so important to the mental health of the nation, why haven’t the PL secured vaccines to take away the fear of cancellation?If their infections keep increasing present rate they will soon have herd immunity.
Post by: lovejoy on January 07, 2021, 04:38:54 PM
If football is so important to the mental health of the nation, why haven’t the PL secured vaccines to take away the fear of cancellation?
Footballers have been the worst breachers of the regulations. IMO they should be at the back of the queue.
Post by: Villa Lew on January 07, 2021, 05:00:50 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on January 07, 2021, 05:10:55 PM
What’s a girl supposed to do?
I don't know, did you ask her?
Post by: tomd2103 on January 07, 2021, 05:12:42 PM
Only a matter of time before the season is postponed imo, this is only going to get worse over the next few weeks. I can see the Euros being kicked cancelled too.t some point football is going to have to prioritise which events take priority.
with the vacine there is every possibility the euros and domestic leagues will complete.
I hope you're right, but I think a PL break is inevitable at the moment. Any postponement is bound to put the Euros in jeopardy. As well the cross-Europe format is exactly ideal in the current situation, it should really be held within one country, if it's going to go ahead.
Just can't see how it is all going to be fitted in as there are World Cup qualifiers as well. If there is a break, there is just going to be an unmanageable backlog of domestic fixtures and then the Euros on top of that.
The one thing that keeps cropping up in my mind is the date of the World Cup in 2022 and the wriggle room that might give.
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 07, 2021, 05:32:40 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 07, 2021, 05:34:54 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 07, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
Take a 6-12 week break, elongate the season to the calendar year (club games at a leisurely place either side of the Euros), do the same next year and finish up that October ahead of the World Cup in Qatar at the end of 2022.
Think that could be an option to be honest. We have gone through an interrupted season already, so cannot see it being much of an issue now. I guess the only thing then would be the start date of the following season and coordinating tournaments with other countries. Couldn't start in August 2023 as that would be too big a gap. Maybe start in March 2023, have no midweek fixtures and a proper winter break in January 2024 and finish at the normal time in May 2024.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on January 07, 2021, 05:54:32 PM
Take a 6-12 week break, elongate the season to the calendar year (club games at a leisurely place either side of the Euros), do the same next year and finish up that October ahead of the World Cup in Qatar at the end of 2022.
And then what? Start the following season in January?
Post by: passport1 on January 07, 2021, 06:03:44 PM
Stay safe stay home.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
As Rob Dorsett on Sky has said, the Spurs and Everton matches must also be in doubt, if the whole squad have to self isolate for 10 days, that takes them up to the day before the Everton match, so it would not be realistic for them to play that game, having not trained for 10 days.
And that’s if they recover ok.
Post by: Gerrin on January 07, 2021, 06:09:50 PM
Take a 6-12 week break, elongate the season to the calendar year (club games at a leisurely place either side of the Euros), do the same next year and finish up that October ahead of the World Cup in Qatar at the end of 2022.
This would mean huge loss of tv revenue for the clubs, for that reason alone I cannot see it happening. It will always be club before country.
Post by: CT on January 07, 2021, 06:10:42 PM
I think football will be stopped soon, whether it wants to or not.
Post by: eamonn on January 07, 2021, 06:12:49 PM
Take a 6-12 week break, elongate the season to the calendar year (club games at a leisurely place either side of the Euros), do the same next year and finish up that October ahead of the World Cup in Qatar at the end of 2022.
And then what? Start the following season in January?
Something like Tom mentioned, a stretched season to get back to the Aug-May cycle or else a shortened Jan-Jun 2023 season with no cups.
Post by: Matt C on January 07, 2021, 06:18:59 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on January 07, 2021, 06:20:01 PM
Take a 6-12 week break, elongate the season to the calendar year (club games at a leisurely place either side of the Euros), do the same next year and finish up that October ahead of the World Cup in Qatar at the end of 2022.
And then what? Start the following season in January?
Something like Tom mentioned, a stretched season to get back to the Aug-May cycle or else a shortened Jan-Jun 2023 season with no cups.
Interesting ideas.
Personally, I think the (unnecessary) rush to reschedule the Euros for the same dates in 2021 without any room for flexibility, has made things much more difficult.
Post by: OCD on January 07, 2021, 06:27:35 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 07, 2021, 06:37:33 PM
Post by: ktvillan on January 07, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
The Euros surely won’t happen. It’s unfortunate but it seems the obvious sacrifice and preserves domestic leagues and those all important revenues/controlling TV companies etc.
The Sweaties will be fuming, donkey's years to reach a finals and looks like it will get cancelled.
Post by: Pat Mustard on January 07, 2021, 07:07:18 PM
I often wonder what decision would have been made last year if it had been Man City who were 25 points clear rather than Liverpool.
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 07, 2021, 07:11:29 PM
Post by: Legion on January 07, 2021, 07:13:26 PM
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/january/Club-Statement-FA-Cup-tie/
Post by: Dave P on January 07, 2021, 07:18:17 PM
The Euros surely won’t happen. It’s unfortunate but it seems the obvious sacrifice and preserves domestic leagues and those all important revenues/controlling TV companies etc.
The Sweaties will be fuming, donkey's years to reach a finals and looks like it will get cancelled.
I’ll be fuming. I have tickets for the final.
Post by: purpletrousers on January 07, 2021, 07:24:08 PM
If football is so important to the mental health of the nation, why haven’t the PL secured vaccines to take away the fear of cancellation?
I don't think that would be to well received amongst frontline NHS staff atm.
Just imagine (righty) the outrage
Yep. It’s horrific for my colleagues working on Covid ward knowing the risk. Knowing we’ve lost multiple colleagues, just. Utterly amazed people having deliberate contact with Covid not prioritised first. A consequence of the care home cock up last time. Utter disgrace. Would have saved lives. Won’t say more.
Post by: frank black on January 07, 2021, 08:00:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2021, 08:02:08 PM
Club statement update:
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/january/Club-Statement-FA-Cup-tie/
On the face of it that sounds fucking bonkers.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 07, 2021, 08:02:17 PM
Club statement update:
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/january/Club-Statement-FA-Cup-tie/
The "related news" below jinxed us.
Post by: Legion on January 07, 2021, 08:03:10 PM
Club statement update:
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/january/Club-Statement-FA-Cup-tie/
The "related news" below jinxed us.
Very good.
Post by: eamonn on January 07, 2021, 08:03:26 PM
Post by: rougegorge on January 07, 2021, 09:28:46 PM
At the very least, they should have minimised clubs jetting all over Europe and dispensed with the group stages and two-legged matches.
Post by: Legion on January 07, 2021, 09:44:09 PM
Post by: Legion on January 07, 2021, 10:01:21 PM
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££As I like to be ahead of the curve i like to inform anyone who isnt aware that an agreement has already been made if season 20/21 were to stop due to covid-19
I don't know the threshold of how many games played but PPG to finish the season has already been voted and decided upon if coronavirus means the season is cancelled..
And as we all know previously with project restart the premier league would require all teams to have played same number of matches though in this circumstances and the very real threat the country is facing don't know if the exact equal number of matches played by all clubs have to be achieved
*Amended my typo'.*
That is not what I meant. The reason they have continued with rougegorge's very valid prior post about European competitions still taking place is financial.
Post by: Dave on January 07, 2021, 10:26:55 PM
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££As I like to be ahead of the curve i like to inform anyone who isnt aware that an agreement has already been made if season 20/21 were to stop due to covid-19
I don't know the threshold of how many games played but PPG to finish the season has already been voted and decided upon if coronavirus means the season is cancelled..
And as we all know previously with project restart the premier league would require all teams to have played same number of matches though in this circumstances and the very real threat the country is facing don't know if the exact equal number of matches played by all clubs have to be achieved
*Amended my typo'.*
That is not what I meant. The reason they have continued with rougegorge's very valid prior post about European competitions still taking place is financial.
No more or less than the decision for any other league or competition to take place.
Post by: Legion on January 07, 2021, 10:37:36 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 07, 2021, 10:49:34 PM
First season pause - emerge from it much stronger, make amazing recovery and survive in top flight.
New season - begin brilliantly, play great football, show immense hope for the future.
Next season pause - we'll emerge from it newly as shit as we were before the original pause.
Post by: passport1 on January 07, 2021, 10:58:41 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 07, 2021, 10:59:24 PM
You mean this has all been a dream?
Put it like this. If this was an episode of Dallas, we'd be Victoria Principal encountering Dead Bobby Ewing in the shower room.
Post by: Legion on January 07, 2021, 10:59:45 PM
You mean this has all been a dream?
A bloody good one over the last few months.
Post by: LeeB on January 07, 2021, 11:01:37 PM
I can't remember if i already said this but I know exactly what is going to happen here, because this is the sort of thing that happens to Aston Villa.
First season pause - emerge from it much stronger, make amazing recovery and survive in top flight.
New season - begin brilliantly, play great football, show immense hope for the future.
Next season pause - we'll emerge from it newly as shit as we were before the original pause.
And, the year we were finally, definitely going to win the FA Cup this happens.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 08, 2021, 12:54:20 AM
Unless we perform one of sporting miracles of the decade would mean 4th round weekend is free for both clubs and we can at least get that fixture played given our next two league games will probably be postponed.
Two weeks time so majority of squad should be o.k by then.
Post by: Mister E on January 08, 2021, 07:23:42 AM
... PPG would see us in 7th place, But without the equal number of games being played by teams around us.You've referred to this a couple of times. The point of PPG is to allow for the fact that clubs may have played different numbers of games.
Post by: CT on January 08, 2021, 07:51:51 AM
I can't remember if i already said this but I know exactly what is going to happen here, because this is the sort of thing that happens to Aston Villa.
First season pause - emerge from it much stronger, make amazing recovery and survive in top flight.
New season - begin brilliantly, play great football, show immense hope for the future.
Next season pause - we'll emerge from it newly as shit as we were before the original pause.
And, the year we were finally, definitely going to win the FA Cup this happens.
You mean this has all been a dream?
Put it like this. If this was an episode of Dallas, we'd be Victoria Principal encountering Dead Bobby Ewing in the shower room.
We'll all be crying tears of joy as Jack lifts the FA Cup aloft.
Then wake up in a Texas shower cubicle. Have a good day y’all.
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 09:40:31 AM
Bit of a dramatic way for us to reduce 9 games in January to likely 7 or 6.
Post by: Steve67 on January 08, 2021, 10:11:49 AM
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 10:17:49 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 08, 2021, 10:25:50 AM
Post by: Risso on January 08, 2021, 10:39:45 AM
If that doesn’t get binned off then that is entirely down to the catastrophic financial implications and not any consideration for health. Mind you same can be said of most competitions. I would feel desperately sad for wee John McGinn if that were to happen.
Even if they go ahead I'd say it's highly unlikely there'd be any fans there.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 08, 2021, 10:52:13 AM
We've had l'pool and man utd pissing on the integrity of the fa cup in the past. The fa are now pissing on the integrity of their own competition and for what...money!
I'd love to win the fa cup but this is not the way to hold a competition with teams weakened by covid.
We've been in pandemic mode since March 2020. They managed to finish last season's competition, but going ahead with this season's competition despite covid issues smacks of greed and head in the sand decisions.
I want the Villa youngsters to do well of course, but football and particularly the fa have just chipped away again at my affection for the game.
Any deadlines they feel they have to meet for playing games may go anyway if football is suspended due to the rise in covid cases making tonight's decision to play or forfeiture irrelevant.
F-ck the fa. UTVB literally!
Post by: clash city rocker on January 08, 2021, 12:41:27 PM
Post by: Dave on January 08, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
If as stated a number of our players have tested positive is there a chance that it could affect their performance in coming weeks even if their symptoms are not severe ?
I'd say that rather than it being chance, I'd say it's a probability.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 08, 2021, 01:01:51 PM
Hopefully Newcastle lose to Arsenal as they should.That would be 23rd January providing Football hasnt been stopped
Unless we perform one of sporting miracles of the decade would mean 4th round weekend is free for both clubs and we can at least get that fixture played given our next two league games will probably be postponed.
Two weeks time so majority of squad should be o.k by then.
The 20th January is 12 days away vs Man City.
Maybe Villa can play Newcastle on that weekend but between now and 16 days away villa will have matches postponed from the 3 scheduled and other clubs and players will have Covid-19
Its reported as rampant within first team and worse than Newacstle and Fulham outbreak.
I think in next 2 weeks football will have the 'mid season break'
Before the FA cup 4th round Villa have games scheduled on 13th, 16th and 20th of January Difficulty can arise for Villa with likely that Spurs and perhaps Everton would be postponed or a depleted team to be playing. Then man city would be the next match that Villa could play, again with a squad that has been hit with Covid.
The impact covid 19 has can see players struggling and even all 3 prem league matches for Villa being postponed before the 4th round of FA cup weekend.
We should be under no obligation to play the Spurs game whatsoever. Would make a mockery of whole of premier league season if we're made to put kids out while Newcastle didn't when they called that game off and also the ones over xmas.
Purslow is canny operator so he'll have direct hotline and cast iron guarentee from premier league we can call off the Spurs game even if we play tonight.
Not sure on Everton. If we can get most of first team squad training end of next week and their fitness levels are fine it should go ahead although perhaps moved back 24 hours to the Sunday as Everton have a free week after that game so can't see issues for that.
Post by: nick harper on January 08, 2021, 01:13:10 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 08, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
Post by: Legion on January 08, 2021, 01:19:57 PM
If the first team squad have to isolate for 10 days I would have thought that kills the Everton game as well. That will be next Friday so no time to prepare at all. Suggestions are that it’s a more serious outbreak than any other in the premier league so far.
I bet it's that bloody Grealish to blame.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 08, 2021, 01:24:36 PM
If the first team squad have to isolate for 10 days I would have thought that kills the Everton game as well. That will be next Friday so no time to prepare at all. Suggestions are that it’s a more serious outbreak than any other in the premier league so far.Source?
Post by: frank black on January 08, 2021, 01:24:51 PM
Hard to see how the Euros can happen. They'll only be us who will be anywhere close to having done a lot of vaccinations in the competition. Bin them off.
With the money etc involved all the top players will be vaccinated by then. I reckon it’ll be on.
Post by: aj2k77 on January 08, 2021, 01:38:52 PM
Can anyone tell me why Man City and Newcastle postponed games whilst we are playing one with no first team squaders? Man City, inparticular, had 2 players out .
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 08, 2021, 01:39:09 PM
If as stated a number of our players have tested positive is there a chance that it could affect their performance in coming weeks even if their symptoms are not severe ?
I'd say that rather than it being chance, I'd say it's a probability.
Deano Smith ,who i most love and most championed, I now question his "i've never had to take a player off for exhaustion.” comment
Its rather unmannerly and not suited at all to these unprecedented times of covid-19.
Smith someone who learns well so he'll live and learn to not make such comments about fatigue in future one would think
Because his own players could be in a struggle not just due to the long working hours he puts upon them but a symptoms of covid.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 08, 2021, 01:41:19 PM
If the first team squad have to isolate for 10 days I would have thought that kills the Everton game as well. That will be next Friday so no time to prepare at all. Suggestions are that it’s a more serious outbreak than any other in the premier league so far.
I read some took the tests on Monday so was assuming maybe they were told to start self isolating then and then the bigger squad outbreak happened later in the week when more tests were conducted so I'd assume some can start training again thursday next week.
Newcastle were back playing a premier league game 8 days after our match v them was cancelled so I wouldn't quite call it off at this stage compared to Spurs which is a certainty to be off in my mind now.
Everton g
Post by: Mister E on January 08, 2021, 01:42:03 PM
Sky have a headline " Liverpool to gain Villa revenge?"". Quite a disgusting tagline, it's a virus that has killed scores all across the world. They ducked out to chase money the other side of the planet.Don't forget Tottingham vs Fulham was also postponed for CV-19.
Can anyone tell me why Man City and Newcastle postponed games whilst we are playing one with no first team squaders? Man City, inparticular, had 2 players out .
Post by: Gareth on January 08, 2021, 01:46:23 PM
If as stated a number of our players have tested positive is there a chance that it could affect their performance in coming weeks even if their symptoms are not severe ?
I'd say that rather than it being chance, I'd say it's a probability.
Deano Smith ,who i most love and most championed, I now question his "i've never had to take a player off for exhaustion.” comment
Its rather unmannerly and not suited at all to these unprecedented times of covid-19.
Smith someone who learns well so he'll live and learn to not make such comments about fatigue in future one would think
Because his own players could be in a struggle not just due to the long working hours he puts upon them but a symptoms of covid.
That’s a very odd angle to take on the situation - the exhaustion comment was spot on with a squad that had no positive COVID tests....today we have some but not because they have played 3 games in a week & are exhausted.
Post by: Drummond on January 08, 2021, 01:47:40 PM
Post by: Legion on January 08, 2021, 01:50:19 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 08, 2021, 02:05:38 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 08, 2021, 02:09:09 PM
If as stated a number of our players have tested positive is there a chance that it could affect their performance in coming weeks even if their symptoms are not severe ?
I'd say that rather than it being chance, I'd say it's a probability.
Deano Smith ,who i most love and most championed, I now question his "i've never had to take a player off for exhaustion.” comment
Its rather unmannerly and not suited at all to these unprecedented times of covid-19.
Smith someone who learns well so he'll live and learn to not make such comments about fatigue in future one would think
Because his own players could be in a struggle not just due to the long working hours he puts upon them but a symptoms of covid.
That’s a very odd angle to take on the situation - the exhaustion comment was spot on with a squad that had no positive COVID tests....today we have some but not because they have played 3 games in a week & are exhausted.
Its odd to you but to me I've considered that exhausting a player would have a detrimental impact on immune system
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 02:11:16 PM
The outbreak has been described as severe in scale, not symptoms.
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 08, 2021, 02:16:58 PM
What does exhaustion have to do with the ability of a spike protein within SARS-CoV-2 to attach itself to ACE2 cell membranes with the upper respiratory or possibly lower respiratory tract?
The outbreak has been described as severe in scale, not symptoms.
As I said a weakened immune system.
There are players with asthma
Although its temporary weakening of immune system i would consider there to be potential risk for a player to have implications to covid-19 and impact when being over worked more than someone at rest both can catch the disease but an exhausted person could become more unwell than a person who is not.
That's all.
Post by: Risso on January 08, 2021, 02:20:14 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on January 08, 2021, 02:20:52 PM
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-coronavirus-covid-19-19587652
Post by: oishiiniku on January 08, 2021, 02:24:35 PM
EDIT: Apparently Newcastle had 19 cases in total, hadn't realised it was so many.
Post by: paul_e on January 08, 2021, 02:39:21 PM
I wonder which is more likely to lead to developing Covid. Doing your job of playing football, or going to, completely for the sake of argument, a restauarant in London for a jolly up on a mate's birthday.
The evidence we have suggests the former because Jack and Ross will have had multiple negative tests since the meal you're talking about and there's nothing to suggest any players or staff did anything in appropriate in the build up to the Man Utd game to account for the 9 infections reported in the testing Monday. Most evidence suggests that the first 3 days after exposure is unlikely to give a positive so 28th-31st of Dec are the most like dates for infection which makes me think the Chelsea game could be where the problem started.
Either way it'll be interesting to keep an eye on reports from Man Utd as we almost certainly had infected players during that game but possibly slightly too early to be transmissible.
Post by: paul_e on January 08, 2021, 02:44:25 PM
14 positive test - of which 10 are players - is pretty significant. I'm not sure how many cases Fulham had, but this is well above other Premier League clubs so far. To go from 0 to 10 in a few days is alarming.Staggering really seems Purslow is out on PR duty to contain this story thanks good to share that.
It's the biggest outbreak in the Premier League
And something isn't right -10 players?
And I'm sorry many football followers are going to be saying Grealish
is involved somewhere
I just hope he wasn't the protagonist of a belated gathering for new years or something. Because that really does him no excuse what so ever Or in fact that it was any player but he more than most needs to keep sensible. Which he struggled with in past and would be quite the uneccessary problem to him And us and a reflection on something I've had concerns on his off pitch attitude.
Ok so if that the case 10 players it won't be long before its out to who they are and what happened. If there was anything untoward. Because no other club has had 10 players so whats the issue with simply following the rules with these players
Ultimately I hope they are all ok and well but at this time hearing such news is really off putting about how footballers are being
No surprise as behaviour of many a footballer is despicable but why our club.
Dear oh dear.
As above you're unlike to test positive in the first 3 dayswith days 5-7 the most common to both have symptoms and return a positive test. That rules out anything after the 31st as the root cause.
Aside from that you really need to get over the problem you have with Jack, there's nothing to suggest he's caused this and yet you're posting pure speculation to make him the bad guy, give it a rest.
Post by: Risso on January 08, 2021, 02:55:43 PM
I wonder which is more likely to lead to developing Covid. Doing your job of playing football, or going to, completely for the sake of argument, a restauarant in London for a jolly up on a mate's birthday.
The evidence we have suggests the former because Jack and Ross will have had multiple negative tests since the meal you're talking about and there's nothing to suggest any players or staff did anything in appropriate in the build up to the Man Utd game to account for the 9 infections reported in the testing Monday. Most evidence suggests that the first 3 days after exposure is unlikely to give a positive so 28th-31st of Dec are the most like dates for infection which makes me think the Chelsea game could be where the problem started.
Either way it'll be interesting to keep an eye on reports from Man Utd as we almost certainly had infected players during that game but possibly slightly too early to be transmissible.
The point I was trying to make that it's almost certainly not because they're a bit tired playing football.
Post by: LeeB on January 08, 2021, 02:58:16 PM
I wonder which is more likely to lead to developing Covid. Doing your job of playing football, or going to, completely for the sake of argument, a restauarant in London for a jolly up on a mate's birthday.
The evidence we have suggests the former because Jack and Ross will have had multiple negative tests since the meal you're talking about and there's nothing to suggest any players or staff did anything in appropriate in the build up to the Man Utd game to account for the 9 infections reported in the testing Monday. Most evidence suggests that the first 3 days after exposure is unlikely to give a positive so 28th-31st of Dec are the most like dates for infection which makes me think the Chelsea game could be where the problem started.
Either way it'll be interesting to keep an eye on reports from Man Utd as we almost certainly had infected players during that game but possibly slightly too early to be transmissible.
I'd say the first instance always, given that your running around inhaling and exhaling heavily in the company of 21 others doing the same, and then grabbing, jostling and intermittently hugging and cavorting with them throughout 90 minutes.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 08, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
If as stated a number of our players have tested positive is there a chance that it could affect their performance in coming weeks even if their symptoms are not severe ?
I'd say that rather than it being chance, I'd say it's a probability.
Deano Smith ,who i most love and most championed, I now question his "i've never had to take a player off for exhaustion.” comment
Its rather unmannerly and not suited at all to these unprecedented times of covid-19.
Smith someone who learns well so he'll live and learn to not make such comments about fatigue in future one would think
Because his own players could be in a struggle not just due to the long working hours he puts upon them but a symptoms of covid.
As someone else said you don’t half talk some nonsense at times.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 08, 2021, 03:10:07 PM
The rules for the FA Cup specifically reference having to field a team from under 23’s if it’s possible to do so. I’m not sure the PL rules are the same. I assume the Shrewsbury game was cancelled because they wouldn’t be able to field even that side.Sky have a headline " Liverpool to gain Villa revenge?"". Quite a disgusting tagline, it's a virus that has killed scores all across the world. They ducked out to chase money the other side of the planet.Don't forget Tottingham vs Fulham was also postponed for CV-19.
Can anyone tell me why Man City and Newcastle postponed games whilst we are playing one with no first team squaders? Man City, inparticular, had 2 players out .
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 08, 2021, 03:14:28 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 08, 2021, 03:15:22 PM
The rules for the FA Cup specifically reference having to field a team from under 23’s if it’s possible to do so. I’m not sure the PL rules are the same. I assume the Shrewsbury game was cancelled because they wouldn’t be able to field even that side.Sky have a headline " Liverpool to gain Villa revenge?"". Quite a disgusting tagline, it's a virus that has killed scores all across the world. They ducked out to chase money the other side of the planet.Don't forget Tottingham vs Fulham was also postponed for CV-19.
Can anyone tell me why Man City and Newcastle postponed games whilst we are playing one with no first team squaders? Man City, inparticular, had 2 players out .
Also, we don't want rearranged Cup games further clogging up our fixtures. Just write the Cup off, or at best, see how far the kids can go in it.
Post by: Mister E on January 08, 2021, 03:22:08 PM
Oh yes, I understand that.The rules for the FA Cup specifically reference having to field a team from under 23’s if it’s possible to do so. I’m not sure the PL rules are the same. I assume the Shrewsbury game was cancelled because they wouldn’t be able to field even that side.Sky have a headline " Liverpool to gain Villa revenge?"". Quite a disgusting tagline, it's a virus that has killed scores all across the world. They ducked out to chase money the other side of the planet.Don't forget Tottingham vs Fulham was also postponed for CV-19.
Can anyone tell me why Man City and Newcastle postponed games whilst we are playing one with no first team squaders? Man City, inparticular, had 2 players out .
The lack of consistency between major tournaments is unhelpful.
Playing the game this evening seems somewhat superfluous in the circumstances.
Post by: charleeco7 on January 08, 2021, 03:32:24 PM
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 08, 2021, 03:45:30 PM
Post by: Bobby Boy on January 08, 2021, 03:47:35 PM
Villa have 9 players with Covid who cannot play next Wednesday. If this game is forced to happen and we play the kids then the integrity of the league is over.
Can't happen surely?
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 08, 2021, 03:49:15 PM
Mourinho essentially saying that Premier League should force Villa to play next Wednesday as it would be "impossible" for Spurs to have another postponement.
Villa have 9 players with Covid who cannot play next Wednesday. If this game is forced to happen and we play the kids then the integrity of the league is over.
Can't happen surely?
Since they've already allowed other clubs in similar situations to postpone, if they even attempt that one we should sue the wankers straightaway. Let's see how they get on trying to bully people with the financial clout of Wes and Nassef.
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Post by: Ian. on January 08, 2021, 03:51:06 PM
Mourinho essentially saying that Premier League should force Villa to play next Wednesday as it would be "impossible" for Spurs to have another postponement.I’d certainly hope not, Man City and Newcastle have managed to cancel their games.
Villa have 9 players with Covid who cannot play next Wednesday. If this game is forced to happen and we play the kids then the integrity of the league is over.
Can't happen surely?
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 03:54:14 PM
Post by: LeeB on January 08, 2021, 04:07:39 PM
Only way Spurs would beat us os if we played the kids.
The miserable c**t would still park the bus and try and nick it on the break. Tony Pulis with a suntan.
Post by: Bobby Boy on January 08, 2021, 04:07:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 08, 2021, 04:11:19 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 08, 2021, 04:17:59 PM
Post by: Dave on January 08, 2021, 04:19:11 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 08, 2021, 04:23:58 PM
Thomas Frank, Brentford's head coach has tested positive. He was going round hugging all the Spurs players at full time in the week, so they might have their own problems anyway.
You don't think...or are suggesting...that Mourinho..."the" bastion of integrity and sportsmanship may want his games cancelled in about 10 days?
Post by: paul_e on January 08, 2021, 04:24:59 PM
Yes because I'm the only one who thinks it.
Not one other person when hearing such news , villa supporters or otherwise, would have a thought that oh is Grealish involved at all with this first team outbreak. Yes no one but me. I think on this occasion my thought is no so unique. Its certainly fair and reasonable however annoying it is to you.
Upon such thought theres what i think what you term evidence. Its from history and used a character profile.
At least I can be balanced because he's a great great footballer no question just concerned he hasn't to do with this situation.
Perfectly reasonable thought to have given his character.
I find what you write naive to that i can't suggest such but thats your perogative
I will await the truth and it was only speculation something you have also done with suggested 'evidence "
I'm now not sure your terms of using ' evidence' is being used correctly as its suiting more for your narrative -which I even said was good excellent info as you wrote it. I understand and see it as considered, constructive opinion.
So i really wish you would lay off me and if i or anyone wanted to say I find Jack grealish off field character not saintly I can. Like you're trying to censor me to have no bad word said agiainst him because he's such a great footballer. Well to me that which is grossly unfair to say I couldn't speculate
Your post is literally the only thing I've seen on here, facebook, twitter and 2-3 other forums implying that he's responsible, justify it all you like but the truth is you've got it in your head that Grealish has an off field problem and you use that belief to over-react to everything he does, even going so far as to implicate him in things where there's no suggestion from anywhere that he was the problem.
You might think it's considered and constructive but it's neither, it's baseless speculation that adds no value to the discussion at all.
Post by: Dave on January 08, 2021, 04:28:00 PM
Your post is literally the only thing I've seen on here, facebook, twitter and 2-3 other forums implying that he's responsible
I was glancing at a Spurs forum to see their thoughts on next week's probable cancellation, lots of them seem to be blaming him as well.
However, I would caveat this by saying that they also appear to all be absolute morons.
Post by: LeeB on January 08, 2021, 04:30:25 PM
Your post is literally the only thing I've seen on here, facebook, twitter and 2-3 other forums implying that he's responsible
I was glancing at a Spurs forum to see their thoughts on next week's probable cancellation, lots of them seem to be blaming him as well.
However, I would caveat this by saying that they also appear to all be absolute morons.
I thought that was a pre-requisite for Spurs?
Post by: paul_e on January 08, 2021, 04:37:07 PM
Your post is literally the only thing I've seen on here, facebook, twitter and 2-3 other forums implying that he's responsible
I was glancing at a Spurs forum to see their thoughts on next week's probable cancellation, lots of them seem to be blaming him as well.
However, I would caveat this by saying that they also appear to all be absolute morons.
To be fair I don't go on the forums of other clubs so they might be saying it, but 41 years of not giving a shit what spurs fans think hasn't done me wrong so far.
Post by: WassallVillain on January 08, 2021, 05:24:56 PM
C.E. Purslow has stated in an interview that 10 of the first team squad tested positive.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-coronavirus-covid-19-1958765214 positive test - of which 10 are players - is pretty significant. I'm not sure how many cases Fulham had, but this is well above other Premier League clubs so far. To go from 0 to 10 in a few days is alarming.Staggering really seems Purslow is out on PR duty to contain this story thanks good to share that.
It's the biggest outbreak in the Premier League
And something isn't right -10 players?
And I'm sorry many football followers are going to be saying Grealish
is involved somewhere
I just hope he wasn't the protagonist of a belated gathering for new years or something. Because that really does him no excuse what so ever Or in fact that it was any player but he more than most needs to keep sensible. Which he struggled with in past and would be quite the uneccessary problem to him And us and a reflection on something I've had concerns on his off pitch attitude.
Ok so if that the case 10 players it won't be long before its out to who they are and what happened. If there was anything untoward. Because no other club has had 10 players so whats the issue with simply following the rules with these players
Ultimately I hope they are all ok and well but at this time hearing such news is really off putting about how footballers are being
No surprise as behaviour of many a footballer is despicable but why our club.
Dear oh dear.
Hi footy. I wish you would lay off putting out theories that unruly & unprofessional behaviour is rife and the likely cause of this outbreak. Footballers will encounter many non football persons in day to day football activities. Just as likely to be the coach driver or a chef that introduced it.
Post by: OCD on January 08, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 08, 2021, 05:43:06 PM
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 05:57:44 PM
If we assume the Spurs and Everton games are off. Jan 20th vs man city would require a remarkable recovery for 9 players to be as fit and athletic as they were against man utd. Also the amount of planning and preparation needed to get a good result there will need a full weeks training. Not sure we will be able to compete in games for quite some time after this. Sadly
It depends if they get ill.
Post by: Big Ming on January 08, 2021, 06:04:40 PM
I wonder if any of the players or staff are actually feeling off colour.
Post by: Steamin_330 on January 08, 2021, 06:16:45 PM
Thomas Frank, Brentford's head coach has tested positive. He was going round hugging all the Spurs players at full time in the week, so they might have their own problems anyway.Jose already asking the Premier League to step in to sort out postponed fixtures: surely a nod to next Wednesday
Mourinho confirmed that his entire Spurs squad have tested negative for Covid-19 after Brentford boss Thomas Frank tested positive for the virus.
They could still have contracted the virus. Your deemed infectious 48 hours before showing symptoms or taking the test which ever came first. Thomas Frank returned a positive test yesterday. He may well have been spreading the virus around without knowing.
Spurs won`t know for sure for another 7 days.
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 07:32:54 PM
Post by: CT on January 08, 2021, 07:51:00 PM
I want us to batter them at Anfield.
Post by: OCD on January 08, 2021, 09:12:23 PM
Most, if not all, the players are Tweeting messages. Hopefully a sign that if they're infected, they're at least not ill.
Klopp said that he had spoken to Smith and that those that had positive tests weren't unwell. In the absence of a more reliable source, I had to take that as good news.
Post by: Ads on January 08, 2021, 09:27:10 PM
Most, if not all, the players are Tweeting messages. Hopefully a sign that if they're infected, they're at least not ill.
Klopp said that he had spoken to Smith and that those that had positive tests weren't unwell. In the absence of a more reliable source, I had to take that as good news.
Thats great to hear. I hope they and their loved ones stay like that.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 08, 2021, 09:58:30 PM
Both teams are in London so it would be one of the easier fixtures to slot in given lack of logistical planning so it would actually work out better for them in short term to just have our match to re-arrange rather than two pending.
We really need Arsenal to do Newcastle tomorrow as that would be a good one to finally play in January. Suddenly our nightmare run of fixtures will have 3-4 winnable ones in next 5 matches.
With common sense fixture nightmare can be averted. Just need to stop likes of BT demanding a certain game can be played in one specific day and timeslot which is laughable with the state the world is in.
Post by: Mister E on January 08, 2021, 10:15:13 PM
Post by: Ad@m on January 08, 2021, 11:26:20 PM
As I just said on the post-match thread, the TV pundits don't seem to understand that in he Premier League we have a registered squad of 25, and that it is those guys who are in isolation! So, we cannot put a team out next Wednesday, unless they've all been cleared of CV-19.
I thought the squad of 25 was only for over 23s and you can play anyone below that age, named or otherwise?
Edit: it's under 21 - here's the full list and rules https://www.premierleague.com/news/1869523
Post by: paul_e on January 08, 2021, 11:33:32 PM
As I just said on the post-match thread, the TV pundits don't seem to understand that in he Premier League we have a registered squad of 25, and that it is those guys who are in isolation! So, we cannot put a team out next Wednesday, unless they've all been cleared of CV-19.
I thought the squad of 25 was only for over 23s and you can play anyone below that age, named or otherwise?
Edit: it's under 21 - here's the full list and rules https://www.premierleague.com/news/1869523
Correct but that's actually worked against us. Jacob Ramsey isn't in the 25 but trains with the first team so he missed out, his brother therefore misses out as well. On top of that Philogene-Bidace lives with someone who was training with the firsts (I assume Chukwuemeka or Wright who were both missing tonight as well) then you've got Lansbury who'll have been around the 25. I make that as 31 players we couldn't include tonight and can't include against spurs either.
Post by: Mister E on January 09, 2021, 09:35:45 AM
Yes, you're right. I had a (old-age-induced) brain-fart. Thanks for pointing that out.As I just said on the post-match thread, the TV pundits don't seem to understand that in he Premier League we have a registered squad of 25, and that it is those guys who are in isolation! So, we cannot put a team out next Wednesday, unless they've all been cleared of CV-19.I thought the squad of 25 was only for over 23s and you can play anyone below that age, named or otherwise?
Edit: it's under 21 - here's the full list and rules https://www.premierleague.com/news/1869523 (https://www.premierleague.com/news/1869523)
However, the precedent set by Newcastle, Fulham and Citeh means there is no way we should be playing against Spurs.
Post by: Bobby Boy on January 09, 2021, 09:44:22 AM
As someone else has said it could enable Spurs - Fulham to be rescheduled in its place.
Or is that too sensible?
Post by: Ads on January 09, 2021, 09:46:12 AM
Post by: frank black on January 09, 2021, 10:11:01 AM
There are allegedly a lot of 'false positives' in the testing process.
I wonder if any of the players or staff are actually feeling off colour.
That’s the lateral flow tests which are very unreliable due to them being self completed. I am sure our players are getting the proper lab based test.
Post by: frank black on January 09, 2021, 10:13:52 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 09, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
Post by: nick harper on January 09, 2021, 10:34:44 AM
Could it be because the majority tested positive on Monday so there's a chance we could training again by Tuesday? Klopp said nobody is ill? Who knows. Still likely we'll call it off Monday or something.
I thought self isolation was 10 days after a positive test but I’m not sure I understand all the rules.
I do hope we are not pressured into playing given the noises from Spurs. As others have said precedents have been set and our outbreak seems to be worse than others. I do think Everton will go ahead with some of the regulars missing.
Post by: clash city rocker on January 09, 2021, 11:30:14 AM
Could it be because the majority tested positive on Monday so there's a chance we could training again by Tuesday? Klopp said nobody is ill? Who knows. Still likely we'll call it off Monday or something.
I thought self isolation was 10 days after a positive test but I’m not sure I understand all the rules.
I do hope we are not pressured into playing given the noises from Spurs. As others have said precedents have been set and our outbreak seems to be worse than others. I do think Everton will go ahead with some of the regulars missing.
Think Purslow is too shrewd to let spurs get their way
Post by: aj2k77 on January 09, 2021, 12:44:20 PM
Newcastle postponed a game. Their case numbers were fewer.
Man City postponed a game. Their case numbers were by far fewer.
Fulham postponed a game. Their case numbers were by far fewer.
There's no reason to go ahead with the Spurs game having to play a weakened youth team. No one else have. Games have been postponed because of 4 cases.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 09, 2021, 12:45:11 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 09, 2021, 01:45:08 PM
Post by: Mellin on January 09, 2021, 01:49:06 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 09, 2021, 01:50:03 PM
Post by: OCD on January 09, 2021, 01:50:53 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 09, 2021, 01:52:09 PM
Post by: Legion on January 09, 2021, 01:55:15 PM
It seems that one of the arguments for playing the game is Spurs potential fixture pile up. How is that our problem?
Tough shit.
Post by: Risso on January 09, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
We shouldn't have to be shrewd.
Newcastle postponed a game. Their case numbers were fewer.
Man City postponed a game. Their case numbers were by far fewer.
Fulham postponed a game. Their case numbers were by far fewer.
There's no reason to go ahead with the Spurs game having to play a weakened youth team. No one else have. Games have been postponed because of 4 cases.
Exactly. Tell them all to fuck off. I'd rather play the game with the full first team and a bit of fixture congestion later in the season than get royally battered playing the U18s. If other teams can have league games postponed because of fewer cases than we have, then we shouldn't be punished for at least getting the FA Cup game on by playing the kids.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 09, 2021, 02:01:37 PM
Post by: oishiiniku on January 09, 2021, 03:01:43 PM
Post by: Risso on January 09, 2021, 03:36:40 PM
Post by: frank black on January 09, 2021, 04:15:37 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on January 09, 2021, 05:33:41 PM
Post by: OCD on January 09, 2021, 05:54:12 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 09, 2021, 09:02:15 PM
Post by: Ads on January 10, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Post by: baddowvillans on January 10, 2021, 09:46:22 AM
Post by: CT on January 10, 2021, 09:46:51 AM
Mourinho is desperate to play out under 18s the fucking snide. What an absolute twat, particularly when his players have broken the rules.
What is it with Spurs? One whiff of blood and they’re over us like vultures.
Here, we’ll take that Grealish lad off you for £3m and give you Josh as well.
Post by: jwarry on January 10, 2021, 10:00:30 AM
Mourinho is desperate to play out under 18s the fucking snide. What an absolute twat, particularly when his players have broken the rules.
Maybe he should play his kids in the fixture congestion games he’s moaning about?!?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 10, 2021, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: exigo on January 10, 2021, 10:15:30 AM
Spurs could have played Fulham on Wednesday if logic had prevailed sooner.
We can now play Newcastle on 4th round day if everyone's back in time.
Post by: Smithy on January 10, 2021, 10:35:14 AM
I'd much rather play 3 games a week for a few weeks to catch up (knowing we can rotate the first team squad where necessary), than play the kids in the league, which will call into question the integrity of the competition itself. Imagine Spurs sneak into the Champions league places on goal difference, having beaten our kids 6-0?
Post by: Mister E on January 10, 2021, 10:50:21 AM
You would have thought that they would run a test Monday and therefore be in a position to make a decision Tuesday.Either way, playing a game on Wednesday is unreasonable and impractical.
Post by: Villa Lew on January 10, 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Post by: TaxDodger on January 10, 2021, 01:51:07 PM
Post by: CT on January 10, 2021, 01:56:04 PM
They have to call off the Tottenham game at least, right? Surely we'd very justifiably refuse to play it if they try to make us considering they've called off Man City/Fulham/Newcastle games when fewer of their players have covid?
Absolutely. I’m hoping it will just be a matter of course that Spurs gets called off.
IF it doesn’t, we should refuse to play. Any integrity the PL has left would be gone.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 10, 2021, 04:59:44 PM
Post by: Dave P on January 10, 2021, 06:06:20 PM
Why has the next match not been called off yet?
They’ll be waiting for the next round of results I bet. Even if they come back negative, I can’t see how we can prepare for a game on Wednesday
Post by: Ads on January 10, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 10, 2021, 07:02:49 PM
Yet the Everton-Man. City game was called off with 4-5 hours notice with little resistance and Man. City came back flying from their 8 day break.
People thinking too short term on this, I very much doubt Spurs will be getting to europa and FA cup final ontop of league cup this season so they'll be a decent number of midweek dates in April and May to play with and play us then.
Post by: Risso on January 10, 2021, 07:06:06 PM
We're working extensively to try and get the game on. Which seems like a lie.
Is that 'working extensively' in the same way I am 'working extensively' to assist with bathing our youngest two this evening?
Post by: Richie on January 10, 2021, 07:19:04 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 10, 2021, 07:33:33 PM
Post by: Risso on January 10, 2021, 07:35:11 PM
Post by: baddowvillans on January 10, 2021, 07:37:57 PM
Post by: Villafirst on January 10, 2021, 07:50:50 PM
Post by: Ads on January 10, 2021, 08:11:18 PM
We're working extensively to try and get the game on. Which seems like a lie.
Is that 'working extensively' in the same way I am 'working extensively' to assist with bathing our youngest two this evening?
Yeah I think its all noise. Unless, and I may be wrong, that if you test positive then you isolate for a week, in which case BMH opens tomorrow?
But yeah, I cant see it happening.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 10, 2021, 08:13:20 PM
Post by: walsall villain on January 10, 2021, 08:13:54 PM
What is Mourinhos logic that Villa must play with 14 fit under 18s but Spurs can't field a team for a rearranged game with 20 plus fit players? It's bollocks and there is no way we should field a team when 3 other teams with less players affected didn't have to. Forfeit and sue the bastardsWe surely can’t play any of the lads who featured on Friday as they aren’t registered in our league squad. It will be off.
Post by: Ads on January 10, 2021, 08:15:15 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 10, 2021, 08:16:26 PM
Post by: Des Little on January 10, 2021, 08:17:26 PM
Post by: Ads on January 10, 2021, 08:18:15 PM
There are different rules for FA Cup. This should be governed by the same rule that saw Newcastle call our game off. We should not even be giving lip service to the idea that the game could be on when the Newcastle game was, quite rightly, postponed.
And Fulham and Man City. Ours is the biggest outbreak too. This is proper tyre kicking spin from us, while in reality Purslow is watching the new season of Cobra Kai.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 10, 2021, 08:23:25 PM
Post by: Richie on January 10, 2021, 08:29:58 PM
You’d think they would realise by now that they can’t take the piss ! 😂
Post by: Ian. on January 10, 2021, 08:32:28 PM
Post by: not3bad on January 10, 2021, 08:36:11 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 10, 2021, 08:39:39 PM
Post by: Ian. on January 10, 2021, 08:48:07 PM
Post by: Dave on January 10, 2021, 08:54:08 PM
What is Mourinhos logic that Villa must play with 14 fit under 18s but Spurs can't field a team for a rearranged game with 20 plus fit players? It's bollocks and there is no way we should field a team when 3 other teams with less players affected didn't have to. Forfeit and sue the bastardsWe surely can’t play any of the lads who featured on Friday as they aren’t registered in our league squad. It will be off.
Don't think that matters does it? It's 25, supplemented by as many u21s as you like I thought.
Still would expect it to be called off in spite of that though.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 10, 2021, 09:06:53 PM
Post by: simboy on January 10, 2021, 09:37:06 PM
Add to the fact that the precedent has been set by Man City, Fulham and Newcastle calling off games, the Premier League are opening themselves up to all manner of quite costly litigation.
Post by: walsall villain on January 10, 2021, 09:52:58 PM
I didn’t know that about u21’s. Hope sense prevails thoughWhat is Mourinhos logic that Villa must play with 14 fit under 18s but Spurs can't field a team for a rearranged game with 20 plus fit players? It's bollocks and there is no way we should field a team when 3 other teams with less players affected didn't have to. Forfeit and sue the bastardsWe surely can’t play any of the lads who featured on Friday as they aren’t registered in our league squad. It will be off.
Don't think that matters does it? It's 25, supplemented by as many u21s as you like I thought.
Still would expect it to be called off in spite of that though.
Post by: nick harper on January 10, 2021, 10:11:18 PM
With test and trace and ten positive tests that would mean that whole bubble will be in isolation, isn’t that right?
I thought that’s what they said. Entire first team squad plus staff had to isolate from last Tuesday. 14 confirmed positive by Thursday including 10 of the squad. I thought self isolation was 10 days which will be around this Friday.
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on January 10, 2021, 10:18:58 PM
Hope I’m wrong but I’ve got a nagging feeling that just like the handball rule changing after Mings handball and I think a tweak to VAR after a decision against us, we’ll be fucked over again.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on January 10, 2021, 10:56:32 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 10, 2021, 11:28:44 PM
Post by: Gareth on January 11, 2021, 12:59:04 AM
Not sure why it hasn’t been called off yet as, any sensible person could surely not expect the Spurs game to go ahead. Listening to a BBC podcast from Saturday, I think, and Jenas and the other presenter was of the opinion that the game should be played despite a precedent being set with Newcastle, Fulham and Man City.
Hope I’m wrong but I’ve got a nagging feeling that just like the handball rule changing after Mings handball and I think a tweak to VAR after a decision against us, we’ll be fucked over again.
That really wouldn’t surprise me - the desperation of the Premier League to preserve their broadcast deals could well see them pressuring us to play.
Personally I think football looks utterly stupid when at the end of games you have managers walking across the pitch to fist bump the referee, a contact that absolutely doesn’t need to happen. The pitch is full of players & staff of both teams embracing, again completely unnecessary-sure the players are in contact all game but there is no need for a manager to be embracing the opposition goalkeeper coach after the game - do the old junior sport bit of forming a tunnel and clapping through it but most of all get off the pitch, get changed & go home.
Post by: Mister E on January 11, 2021, 07:53:00 AM
There doesn't need to be any of this close-proximity stuff, but they do it. They are complacent under the illusion that their bubble remains secure, when the reality is that the players do not have the self-discipline to remain in it 100%.
...Personally I think football looks utterly stupid when at the end of games you have managers walking across the pitch to fist bump the referee, a contact that absolutely doesn’t need to happen. The pitch is full of players & staff of both teams embracing, again completely unnecessary-sure the players are in contact all game but there is no need for a manager to be embracing the opposition goalkeeper coach after the game - do the old junior sport bit of forming a tunnel and clapping through it but most of all get off the pitch, get changed & go home.
That's why clubs are getting cases.
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 08:40:34 AM
Quote
A lot Villa fans seem to think it should be postponed because they have 10 players out with Covid. That's not how it works - having Covid is the same as having an injury and games don't cancelled because a team has 9 or 10 players out. Games have been postponed because there's been outbreaks, the training grounds are closed and a game is a few days away, not enough time to see if the virus has spread to any remaining players.
Villa's training ground will likely reopen on Monday or Tuesday, the same length of time Newcastle's was closed and they will likely be told to play the game. They'll protest they've been treated differently but they actually haven't at all.
Equivocation of 10 players with a muscle injury. Because hamstring knocks killed 80,000 people and spread to 21,000,000 in the UK, including forcing 31 players and all the first team staff to isolate. Absolute genius.
Post by: andyh on January 11, 2021, 09:01:10 AM
https://twitter.com/Liamornot/status/1348550057319157760?s=20
Post by: frank black on January 11, 2021, 09:26:44 AM
Jack a bit poorly
https://twitter.com/Liamornot/status/1348550057319157760?s=20
Out of breath when chatting, top athlete and all. STilL ItS OnLy a COld
Post by: Villafirst on January 11, 2021, 09:48:48 AM
Congratulations to NW16Spur on the aptly named TheFightingCock, the mains Spurs fans forum, for the stupidest take I've seen on this situation:QuoteA lot Villa fans seem to think it should be postponed because they have 10 players out with Covid. That's not how it works - having Covid is the same as having an injury and games don't cancelled because a team has 9 or 10 players out. Games have been postponed because there's been outbreaks, the training grounds are closed and a game is a few days away, not enough time to see if the virus has spread to any remaining players.
Villa's training ground will likely reopen on Monday or Tuesday, the same length of time Newcastle's was closed and they will likely be told to play the game. They'll protest they've been treated differently but they actually haven't at all.
Equivocation of 10 players with a muscle injury. Because hamstring knocks killed 80,000 people and spread to 21,000,000 in the UK, including forcing 31 players and all the first team staff to isolate. Absolute genius.
Is it any wonder the virus is spreading fast with the dummies from a Spurs Forum spouting such rubbish.
Post by: Chris Smith on January 11, 2021, 09:59:12 AM
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 10:00:53 AM
Jack a bit poorly
https://twitter.com/Liamornot/status/1348550057319157760?s=20
Out of breath when chatting, top athlete and all. STilL ItS OnLy a COld
Its from 5th April. So it was just a cold, as he hasn't had Covid.
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 10:03:49 AM
If the outbreak was at the Spurs end then that fan would be arguing the exact opposite of what he is sporting there but there would be some on our side arguing for it to go ahead (not this site).
The only reason anybody would want the game to go ahead because they know its a gimme for 3 points and goal difference. It would be brilliant to play a load of u18s this year and rattle up the cheapest of cheap wins from an entirely selfish and not entirely serious point of view.
That these dummies are serious is well, pretty Spursy.
Post by: Dave P on January 11, 2021, 10:09:26 AM
Post by: Ian. on January 11, 2021, 10:41:56 AM
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 10:42:29 AM
I think maybe that Spurs are a little scared of playing a fully fit Villa at the moment.
That's my take as well.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 11, 2021, 10:43:45 AM
If the outbreak was at the Spurs end then that fan would be arguing the exact opposite of what he is sporting there but there would be some on our side arguing for it to go ahead (not this site).Agree
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 11, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
Their manager knows the situation.
He'll push for an opportunity to play us now to get a very tough fixture out of the way.
Post by: Richie on January 11, 2021, 10:49:01 AM
I don’t remember the Villa fans crying and saying how unfair it was when Newcastle couldn’t play against us ?
Let them come and play our first team.
And if there’s one match I would love to win this season it will be that one.
Alternatively, let’s play it on Wednesday with what we’ve got on the proviso that they have to play their under 9’s when we play the return fixture. See if they are happy with that.
Post by: Dave P on January 11, 2021, 10:50:35 AM
Let's see if Jose says something similar?
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 10:52:19 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 11, 2021, 10:52:33 AM
I think maybe that Spurs are a little scared of playing a fully fit Villa at the moment.Isnt it possible that is exactly what they will face?
Post by: Dave P on January 11, 2021, 10:54:25 AM
I think maybe that Spurs are a little scared of playing a fully fit Villa at the moment.Isnt it possible that is exactly what they will face?
Possibly in terms of who we can put on the pitch but 'fully fit' also includes them having trained for it but if the training ground is shut then how can they of?
Post by: olaftab on January 11, 2021, 10:54:43 AM
If the outbreak was at the Spurs end then that fan would be arguing the exact opposite of what he is sporting there but there would be some on our side arguing for it to go ahead (not this site).However we played a game on Friday in a prestigious competition against the first choice team of current champions of England so if we have the same players available is there any reason why we shouldn’t play Tottenham on Wednesday?
Post by: olaftab on January 11, 2021, 10:58:41 AM
It’s dog eat dog world as far as Mouniho is concerned. Why wouldn’t he grab the chance of bagging 3 easy points if he can?I think maybe that Spurs are a little scared of playing a fully fit Villa at the moment.
That's my take as well.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 11, 2021, 11:04:03 AM
Most will have home Gyms, I would imagine they will be keeping themselves fit, If they get a good days trainng I think they should be good. Obviously preperation will be disrupted but I expect Dean has been on the Zoom.I think maybe that Spurs are a little scared of playing a fully fit Villa at the moment.Isnt it possible that is exactly what they will face?
Possibly in terms of who we can put on the pitch but 'fully fit' also includes them having trained for it but if the training ground is shut then how can they of?
Not ideal but a long way from terrible.
Post by: Risso on January 11, 2021, 11:08:10 AM
Post by: Bobby Boy on January 11, 2021, 11:08:43 AM
Seems the best way forward though Fulham not happy with that.....
Post by: OCD on January 11, 2021, 11:09:35 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 11, 2021, 11:10:14 AM
That seem eminently sensible, so will see if it actually unfolds.
Post by: fbriai on January 11, 2021, 11:12:22 AM
Quote
There's a really easy solution to the scheduling. Tottenham v Fulham Weds, Fulham v Chelsea moves to Sat 5.30pm and keeps a TV slot, Villa v Everton moves to Sunday 12noon (TV slot free). This of course needs clubs and broadcasters to be flexible but no big disadvantage here.
Chelsea travel to Leicester next Tuesday night, but Leicester are already playing at 8pm on Sat night so Chelsea would not be disadvantaged by playing Fulham at 5.30pm on Sat instead.
Also, surely now Villa v Newcastle gets rearranged for the FA Cup fourth round weekend of Jan 23/24 with both clubs out of the Cup.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 11, 2021, 11:14:50 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 11, 2021, 11:17:44 AM
Fulham then would likely have rested far more players in the cup.
I bet if you asked Fulham fans though, they would rather be through to the next round having knocked out a local rival than have their first team players nice and rested while the reserves lost to QPR.
Post by: OCD on January 11, 2021, 11:23:06 AM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 11, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
If the outbreak was at the Spurs end then that fan would be arguing the exact opposite of what he is sporting there but there would be some on our side arguing for it to go ahead (not this site).However we played a game on Friday in a prestigious competition against the first choice team of current champions of England so if we have the same players available is there any reason why we shouldn’t play Tottenham on Wednesday?
Yes, because no other team have been forced to play with under 18''s, they've had their games called off.
End of story.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 11, 2021, 11:28:12 AM
Good proposal by Matt Law on Twitter:QuoteThere's a really easy solution to the scheduling. Tottenham v Fulham Weds, Fulham v Chelsea moves to Sat 5.30pm and keeps a TV slot, Villa v Everton moves to Sunday 12noon (TV slot free). This of course needs clubs and broadcasters to be flexible but no big disadvantage here.
Chelsea travel to Leicester next Tuesday night, but Leicester are already playing at 8pm on Sat night so Chelsea would not be disadvantaged by playing Fulham at 5.30pm on Sat instead.
Also, surely now Villa v Newcastle gets rearranged for the FA Cup fourth round weekend of Jan 23/24 with both clubs out of the Cup.
All of that seems far too logical.
Post by: Bobby Boy on January 11, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
If the outbreak was at the Spurs end then that fan would be arguing the exact opposite of what he is sporting there but there would be some on our side arguing for it to go ahead (not this site).However we played a game on Friday in a prestigious competition against the first choice team of current champions of England so if we have the same players available is there any reason why we shouldn’t play Tottenham on Wednesday?
Yes, because no other team have been forced to play with under 18''s, they've had their games called off.
End of story.
Amen to that.
Post by: aj2k77 on January 11, 2021, 11:29:31 AM
We have a covid outbreak and haven't trained. Call the match off.
Fulham aren't scheduled to play them Wednesday. Don't arrange a match at 48 hours notice.
If there's a back log then that's what squads are for at some point. They're not to stock pile players so others don't get them. They're not to enable you to make 5 subs in a game to overwhelm the opposition. They're not to boast about strength in depth.
Champions league money, champions league squad, champions league strength in depth? Well prove it. Use them when you have a backlog towards the end of the season.
Post by: aj2k77 on January 11, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
What has changed? And give a single fair reason why we should bite the bullet on this one?
Post by: London Villan on January 11, 2021, 11:33:23 AM
Post by: Villafirst on January 11, 2021, 11:37:42 AM
Post by: LeeB on January 11, 2021, 11:39:16 AM
Can anyone give a plausable reason why all of a sudden it's imperative to play matches against u23's/u18's, when a week ago it wasn't and matches were postponed?
What has changed? And give a single fair reason why we should bite the bullet on this one?
All that's changed is that one club, in a different competition, went about fulfilling, without fuss, their fixture despite having no chance of winning as a result.
And now that same club is expected to do the same for the benefit of other, lesser clubs, who can frankly get fucked.
Post by: walsall villain on January 11, 2021, 11:40:40 AM
Realistically the PL should have stuck to the 14 fit players rule. The fact they didn’t sets the precedent which can now benefit from.I agree. I was surprised at the time that the Newcastle game was cancelled as further cases were likely.
Post by: Risso on January 11, 2021, 11:43:22 AM
Post by: frank black on January 11, 2021, 12:10:59 PM
The club should just tell the Premier League we're not playing the match, for the same (only more severe) reasons that the other games have been called off. What they do after that in respect of rearranging Fulham or whatever is up to them.
Painted the image in my head of us phoning in sick. We’d have to put on the poorly voice.
Post by: Dave P on January 11, 2021, 12:14:35 PM
Post by: frank black on January 11, 2021, 12:32:32 PM
Post by: Dave P on January 11, 2021, 12:33:05 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 11, 2021, 12:38:33 PM
The Athletic are confirming our game v Spurs is off and they will play Fulham instead on Wednesday. Got a feeling Fulham will feel hard done by this.
Fulham should refuse to play the game. No clubs should be making concessions for moaning, wanker, Mourinho and Tottenham.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 11, 2021, 12:41:06 PM
Got a feeling everything will be halted soon anyway.Whatever Nicola does in Scotland, Boris tends to follow here soon afterwards.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 11, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 11, 2021, 12:44:48 PM
Post by: placeforparks on January 11, 2021, 12:47:04 PM
Good proposal by Matt Law on Twitter:QuoteThere's a really easy solution to the scheduling. Tottenham v Fulham Weds, Fulham v Chelsea moves to Sat 5.30pm and keeps a TV slot, Villa v Everton moves to Sunday 12noon (TV slot free). This of course needs clubs and broadcasters to be flexible but no big disadvantage here.
Chelsea travel to Leicester next Tuesday night, but Leicester are already playing at 8pm on Sat night so Chelsea would not be disadvantaged by playing Fulham at 5.30pm on Sat instead.
Also, surely now Villa v Newcastle gets rearranged for the FA Cup fourth round weekend of Jan 23/24 with both clubs out of the Cup.
fulham have confirmed spurs on wednesday and chelsea on saturday at 5.30pm.
see what happens with our everton game now.
edit: villa v everton moved to sunday!
Post by: eamonn on January 11, 2021, 12:59:18 PM
Post by: LukeJames on January 11, 2021, 01:01:42 PM
Post by: Gerrin on January 11, 2021, 01:04:25 PM
Will we have three games in hand on most of the division before kick-off against Everton ?
Is the Everton game definitely on? When do the players come out of quarantine?
Post by: Villafirst on January 11, 2021, 01:06:21 PM
Post by: Astnor on January 11, 2021, 01:08:30 PM
Post by: Dave on January 11, 2021, 01:09:04 PM
Will we have three games in hand on most of the division before kick-off against Everton ?
Is the Everton game definitely on? When do the players come out of quarantine?
Gregg Evans is reporting that it's confirmed as happening Sunday.
Post by: Astnor on January 11, 2021, 01:11:17 PM
Post by: LukeJames on January 11, 2021, 01:16:03 PM
Post by: oishiiniku on January 11, 2021, 01:19:38 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on January 11, 2021, 01:25:35 PM
I wonder what this last sentence at the end of the premier league statement means.
Post by: Legion on January 11, 2021, 01:30:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 11, 2021, 01:32:30 PM
Well not quite we should have told the FA and Liverpool to do one and not given up our slot in the Cup.If the outbreak was at the Spurs end then that fan would be arguing the exact opposite of what he is sporting there but there would be some on our side arguing for it to go ahead (not this site).However we played a game on Friday in a prestigious competition against the first choice team of current champions of England so if we have the same players available is there any reason why we shouldn’t play Tottenham on Wednesday?
Yes, because no other team have been forced to play with under 18''s, they've had their games called off.
End of story.
Post by: exigo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:48 PM
LThe Premier League, in consultation with its clubs, has enhanced its COVID-19 protocols, in addition to reimplementing a twice-weekly testing programme. The protocols, which strengthen key elements of the current guidance, came into immediate effect this week.l
I wonder what this last sentence at the end of the premier league statement means.
They tightened regulations around subs wearing masks, and I seem to remember certain things around training grounds, like who can and can't use canteens etc.
Post by: Villa Lew on January 11, 2021, 01:45:34 PM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 11, 2021, 01:52:19 PM
Well not quite we should have told the FA and Liverpool to do one and not given up our slot in the Cup.If the outbreak was at the Spurs end then that fan would be arguing the exact opposite of what he is sporting there but there would be some on our side arguing for it to go ahead (not this site).However we played a game on Friday in a prestigious competition against the first choice team of current champions of England so if we have the same players available is there any reason why we shouldn’t play Tottenham on Wednesday?
Yes, because no other team have been forced to play with under 18''s, they've had their games called off.
End of story.
Agree totally.
Post by: London Villan on January 11, 2021, 01:53:10 PM
Post by: exigo on January 11, 2021, 01:57:11 PM
I think dyche is right. For the weekly effort and expense of testing hundreds of people they’d be better off jabbing them all if football is deemed so important.
Totally agree. And in the same way that teams had NHS patches on during Project Restart, it would be a PR win if all shirt sleeves were given over to a Get Vaccinated message. The government wants celebs, influencers to be visibly seen to have the vaccine, to encourage take-up. This would be a way of doing it.
Post by: luke95 on January 11, 2021, 01:58:12 PM
Next step is to get the Newcastle game rearranged for FA Cup 4th Round weekend, shouldn't be a problem.They(fa/premier) will find one .
Post by: lovejoy on January 11, 2021, 02:25:48 PM
I think dyche is right. For the weekly effort and expense of testing hundreds of people they’d be better off jabbing them all if football is deemed so important.
Totally agree. And in the same way that teams had NHS patches on during Project Restart, it would be a PR win if all shirt sleeves were given over to a Get Vaccinated message. The government wants celebs, influencers to be visibly seen to have the vaccine, to encourage take-up. This would be a way of doing it.
Happy with that as long as they're given after me and everyone else who has followed the rules. Too many players have flaunted the rules to be rewarded like this surely.
Post by: basavfc on January 11, 2021, 02:49:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 11, 2021, 02:51:24 PM
Anyone else think the Everton game will come too soon and will also need to be postponed ?
no chance it'll be postponed, the 10 day isolation period will be over with enough time for us to have a couple of days training, there's no way the league will let us (or any other club in that circumstance) delay after the isolation period.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 11, 2021, 02:52:07 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on January 11, 2021, 03:02:11 PM
Shocked the premier league came to the common sense solution pretty quickly, suits all parties.
We’re yet to hear what Moaninho thinks. Despite it being common sense he’s likely to se things differently. His stated original position was fixture congestion. That has been taken away from him by PL and, to their credit, Fulham. Now it’s likely to be. “We spent time preparing to play in different way against different opposition”
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 11, 2021, 03:06:30 PM
Shocked the premier league came to the common sense solution pretty quickly, suits all parties.
We’re yet to hear what Moaninho thinks. Despite it being common sense he’s likely to se things differently. His stated original position was fixture congestion. That has been taken away from him by PL and, to their credit, Fulham. Now it’s likely to be. “We spent time preparing to play in different way against different opposition”
Spurs will likely win the game 3-0 even though Fulham have improved a fair bit recently.
I can understand Fulham being disappointed by lack of notice but they've just had two weeks off and Saturday afternoon-Weds evening is hardly a taxing schedule.
And they'd rather have Spurs away now than in the last week of the season when it could be must win for them.
Post by: Risso on January 11, 2021, 03:19:10 PM
I think dyche is right. For the weekly effort and expense of testing hundreds of people they’d be better off jabbing them all if football is deemed so important.
Totally agree. And in the same way that teams had NHS patches on during Project Restart, it would be a PR win if all shirt sleeves were given over to a Get Vaccinated message. The government wants celebs, influencers to be visibly seen to have the vaccine, to encourage take-up. This would be a way of doing it.
What a good idea. Maybe suspend the BLM knee for a bit, and do a vaccination mime! Especially seeing as BLM people have died in disproportionately large numbers.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 11, 2021, 03:20:15 PM
Post by: baddowvillans on January 11, 2021, 03:20:51 PM
Post by: Mister E on January 11, 2021, 03:23:46 PM
Quote
Chelsea are set to face Fulham despite having to shut their academy training centre because of a coronavirus outbreak believed to involve as many as 20 cases. Youngsters have been told to stay away while the site undergoes a deep clean after a number of positive tests were returned over the weekend, but first-team facilities remain open.
Post by: aj2k77 on January 11, 2021, 04:16:16 PM
All clubs have challenges: here's a paragraph from a Grauniad article from today:QuoteChelsea are set to face Fulham despite having to shut their academy training centre because of a coronavirus outbreak believed to involve as many as 20 cases. Youngsters have been told to stay away while the site undergoes a deep clean after a number of positive tests were returned over the weekend, but first-team facilities remain open.
Their challenge is that 20 cases of people that are nowhere near getting on the subs bench nevermind in the team.
:(I think we are all realising now premier league football isn't stopping because of the millions lost . The economic reason.
What's fascinating are the different views of the premier league coaches .
From what Nuno Santo is saying sounds like some clubs basically will look to do a super league in opposition/ threat to the Premier league clubs stopping this season.
"If we stop everything will change. A new football will come, probably with a Super League, probably with other competitions. It’ll be a matter of which clubs will survive. It’s a tough decision to make"
don’t know what is better. What I’m afraid of is, if the decision is to stop, football we know now will not be the same. This is my biggest fear. The schedule will go crazy and it’ll be impossible to finish the league and think about the Euros.
“We cannot move forward and go back to a normal situation. The virus and pandemic is affecting things a lot, the increase of cases is growing in a scary way. This is what my main concern is."
“Things have changed, almost a year ago we were stopping because we didn’t know what was happening. It was something we hadn’t experienced. There were a lot of doubts."
"After the restart everyone made a big effort. There were protocols, meetings, things exchanged, we were sure no matter what we were playing because we only needed 14 players. Now things have changed and we are starting to think about stopping again.
“If you have a crisis the strong will survive, what about the rest? My personal view, when I have an awareness of what’s going around, you will not find the same model we have now.”
Reading between the line Nuno is saying that some clubs won't allow a premier league break and if they did they would vote and take up the option of a European super league.
Let them have a super league. After a few years there will be no appetite for it once the novelty has worn off. No real away days, no local rivalries. It's a fantasy concept that wouldn't work as the mainstay of a clubs football season.
Post by: Mister E on January 11, 2021, 04:24:23 PM
Yes, but it is still something that has impacted their club as a whole, and it will put pressure on the quality of their bubbles and the overall health of the club ... but - yes - not directly relevant to us at this time.All clubs have challenges: here's a paragraph from a Grauniad article from today:Their challenge is that 20 cases of people that are nowhere near getting on the subs bench nevermind in the team.QuoteChelsea are set to face Fulham despite having to shut their academy training centre because of a coronavirus outbreak believed to involve as many as 20 cases. Youngsters have been told to stay away while the site undergoes a deep clean after a number of positive tests were returned over the weekend, but first-team facilities remain open.
Post by: pelty on January 11, 2021, 04:33:22 PM
All clubs have challenges: here's a paragraph from a Grauniad article from today:QuoteChelsea are set to face Fulham despite having to shut their academy training centre because of a coronavirus outbreak believed to involve as many as 20 cases. Youngsters have been told to stay away while the site undergoes a deep clean after a number of positive tests were returned over the weekend, but first-team facilities remain open.
Their challenge is that 20 cases of people that are nowhere near getting on the subs bench nevermind in the team.:(I think we are all realising now premier league football isn't stopping because of the millions lost . The economic reason.
What's fascinating are the different views of the premier league coaches .
From what Nuno Santo is saying sounds like some clubs basically will look to do a super league in opposition/ threat to the Premier league clubs stopping this season.
"If we stop everything will change. A new football will come, probably with a Super League, probably with other competitions. It’ll be a matter of which clubs will survive. It’s a tough decision to make"
don’t know what is better. What I’m afraid of is, if the decision is to stop, football we know now will not be the same. This is my biggest fear. The schedule will go crazy and it’ll be impossible to finish the league and think about the Euros.
“We cannot move forward and go back to a normal situation. The virus and pandemic is affecting things a lot, the increase of cases is growing in a scary way. This is what my main concern is."
“Things have changed, almost a year ago we were stopping because we didn’t know what was happening. It was something we hadn’t experienced. There were a lot of doubts."
"After the restart everyone made a big effort. There were protocols, meetings, things exchanged, we were sure no matter what we were playing because we only needed 14 players. Now things have changed and we are starting to think about stopping again.
“If you have a crisis the strong will survive, what about the rest? My personal view, when I have an awareness of what’s going around, you will not find the same model we have now.”
Reading between the line Nuno is saying that some clubs won't allow a premier league break and if they did they would vote and take up the option of a European super league.
Let them have a super league. After a few years there will be no appetite for it once the novelty has worn off. No real away days, no local rivalries. It's a fantasy concept that wouldn't work as the mainstay of a clubs football season.
I disagree. The media would back the Super League, the best players would want to play in the Super League, and the top domestic leagues would become the equivalent of the Championship except there would be no hope for promotion. Part of the attraction of the domestic leagues is the promise of promotion and the fear of relegation as well as the push for top European places. What fun would it be to permanently be in the "second tier" with no hope of escape and no hope of making it into Europe? Some might find that attractive, but it would really take the air out of it all for me.
Post by: Dave on January 11, 2021, 04:35:09 PM
Bruce is talking more sense and being honest.
I'm not sure with Dyche if he understands whats most important
Steve Bruce:
"I see other clubs struggling with it now and of course there's Premier League protocols in place but once you leave the training ground you are in the outside world"
The speed in which it ripped through us is something all football clubs will be looking at because it is difficult to contain and stop.
“We've seen first hand how it affects people - we've had two players who were very, very sick and one or two members of staff, one in particular nearly hospitalised.
“And no one envisaged this new wave was going to be as powerful as it is.
“Financially it's right to play on, but for me - morally it's wrong. I understand people want to play a game of football but we are just as vulnerable as everyone else.”
Back in October he was saying how stupid it was that fans weren't being allowed back in grounds.
The man's a dimwit.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 11, 2021, 04:36:07 PM
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 04:46:36 PM
Bruce is talking more sense and being honest.
I'm not sure with Dyche if he understands whats most important
Steve Bruce:
"I see other clubs struggling with it now and of course there's Premier League protocols in place but once you leave the training ground you are in the outside world"
The speed in which it ripped through us is something all football clubs will be looking at because it is difficult to contain and stop.
“We've seen first hand how it affects people - we've had two players who were very, very sick and one or two members of staff, one in particular nearly hospitalised.
“And no one envisaged this new wave was going to be as powerful as it is.
“Financially it's right to play on, but for me - morally it's wrong. I understand people want to play a game of football but we are just as vulnerable as everyone else.”
Back in October he was saying how stupid it was that fans weren't being allowed back in grounds.
The man's a dimwit.
Were Newcastle weren't in the bottom 6 then? Or is that too cynical?
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 11, 2021, 04:46:43 PM
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 04:47:39 PM
Steve Bruce serves and has always served Steve Bruce's best interests. He is always the victim.
He also serves kebab shop owners retirement plans.
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 05:24:44 PM
The idea of a Super League is a nonsense for me. The cash cow is the CL and by and large the same faces are always involved. FFP was the drawbridge up. There's no appetite for a Super League amongst supporters and given how insanely profitable the PL, why are they chucking that out?
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 11, 2021, 05:26:41 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 11, 2021, 05:45:16 PM
Will they care about the game? will they fuck its a product or project or franchise or whatever the latest Marketing speak is.
It would not surprise me to see something similar to what happened to Boxing.
It is about when not if.
Post by: exigo on January 11, 2021, 05:45:29 PM
BBC linky (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55617958)
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 11, 2021, 06:01:04 PM
Post by: Dave on January 11, 2021, 06:11:17 PM
The idea of a Super League is a nonsense for me. The cash cow is the CL and by and large the same faces are always involved. FFP was the drawbridge up. There's no appetite for a Super League amongst supporters and given how insanely profitable the PL, why are they chucking that out?
I think that's conflating the present with recent history. Before the current TV deal (particularly the overseas one), they were keen. And before, the Champions League TV money was the biggest financial prize but now that the Premier League is more lucrative than the Champions League they are a lot less interested than they were. Bayern received a similar amount of money for winning the CL last year as Norwich got for finishing bottom of the league.
The appetite for a larger, pan-European league is driven more by European teams than the richer PL clubs. The likes of Bayern and Juventus see it as a way to counter Premier League dominance, having seen the PL interest outpace their domestic league and then outpace the CL as well.
For the PL clubs, leaving the PL just means sharing their huge wealth and global reach with Bayern and PSG, rather than sharing it with Burnley and Wolves. They have the best of both worlds at the moment.
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 11, 2021, 06:12:27 PM
Post by: algy on January 11, 2021, 06:12:43 PM
I think Pandora's box has been opened with the TV schedules now, and can't see it going back ... fully expect every top flight game to be televised.
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 11, 2021, 06:42:30 PM
Villa I think have established ourselves as a top 20 team but this may not show itself immediately given the lottery ahead.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 11, 2021, 06:51:40 PM
Post by: London Villan on January 11, 2021, 07:08:30 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on January 11, 2021, 07:41:41 PM
We are just a couple of matches short of half way in the season. It seems we will not get a 38 match season completed. Why not take the half way point to separate top 10 and bottom 10. Then play 9 more matches against each of the other clubs in the top 10 or bottom 10 to decide the final positions within each 10 over a 28 game season.
I’d be more inclined to spread the European competitions over two seasons - so call these off now and reduce the travel risks etc - the newly vacant Wednesdays could be used as float dates for re-arranged fixtures. Of corse this approach would guarantee Villa finish 4th and not qualify for the chumps league.
Post by: Dave on January 11, 2021, 07:58:54 PM
We are just a couple of matches short of half way in the season. It seems we will not get a 38 match season completed. Why not take the half way point to separate top 10 and bottom 10. Then play 9 more matches against each of the other clubs in the top 10 or bottom 10 to decide the final positions within each 10 over a 28 game season.
I’d be more inclined to spread the European competitions over two seasons - so call these off now and reduce the travel risks etc - the newly vacant Wednesdays could be used as float dates for re-arranged fixtures. Of corse this approach would guarantee Villa finish 4th and not qualify for the chumps league.
Guess the problem is that the rest of Europe isn't necessarily working to our timetable.
Unless I've missed the reports, matches don't appear to be being cancelled in most other places due to massive outbreaks. They just seem to be getting on with finishing their seasons on schedule (information correct at time of going to press).
Why would everyone else skip a year just because we have to keep cancelling matches?
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 11, 2021, 08:07:38 PM
Rearranging all European games to May so as to minimise travel while the new strand is at its deadliest seems reasonable.
And World Cup qualifiers can be postponed. We already had the Czechs having to play an amateur team and it is likely to be much worse next time around.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 11, 2021, 08:24:39 PM
If I spoke like that to another fan visiting H & V in peace I would expect an absolute minimum of a warning from the moderators.
Quote
#1,001
Villan said:
But you are looking at it purely from a Spurs perspective.
The fact Spurs are in a load of cup competitions and have had games postponed because of the virus (as have we) isn’t Villa’s fault or problem.
Can you seriously say if the roles were reversed you’d happily send the kids to play our first team ?
cretinousgoat Yesterday at 2:47 PM
By the same idiotic logic, the fact you fucking scumbags can't stay virus free isn't spurs fault or problem either.
We're not playing 3 or 4 games in a fucking week again because you dirty villa monkeys can't stay virus free.
Give us the points or play your kids. Simple.
Now fuck off back to the villa forum shithole you crawled yo bitch ass out from
https://thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/the-impact-of-covid-on-spurs-football.35718/page-51
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 11, 2021, 08:28:47 PM
Post by: Ian. on January 11, 2021, 08:35:33 PM
Post by: LukeJames on January 11, 2021, 08:38:30 PM
Post by: Ian. on January 11, 2021, 08:42:41 PM
Post by: exigo on January 11, 2021, 09:03:41 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 11, 2021, 09:06:57 PM
Here is a lovely reply when a Villa fan tried to make a point on a Spurs fans forum.
If I spoke like that to another fan visiting H & V in peace I would expect an absolute minimum of a warning from the moderators.Quote#1,001
Villan said:
But you are looking at it purely from a Spurs perspective.
The fact Spurs are in a load of cup competitions and have had games postponed because of the virus (as have we) isn’t Villa’s fault or problem.
Can you seriously say if the roles were reversed you’d happily send the kids to play our first team ?
cretinousgoat Yesterday at 2:47 PM
By the same idiotic logic, the fact you fucking scumbags can't stay virus free isn't spurs fault or problem either.
We're not playing 3 or 4 games in a fucking week again because you dirty villa monkeys can't stay virus free.
Give us the points or play your kids. Simple.
Now fuck off back to the villa forum shithole you crawled yo bitch ass out from
https://thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/the-impact-of-covid-on-spurs-football.35718/page-51
Wow.
Its plainly obvious that this guy is worried that with us at full strength his team might struggle against us.
Excellent stuff.
Post by: trinityoap on January 11, 2021, 09:24:27 PM
Post by: Ads on January 11, 2021, 09:34:42 PM
Post by: OCD on January 11, 2021, 10:00:10 PM
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 11, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on January 11, 2021, 10:12:38 PM
Here is a lovely reply when a Villa fan tried to make a point on a Spurs fans forum.
If I spoke like that to another fan visiting H & V in peace I would expect an absolute minimum of a warning from the moderators.Quote#1,001
Villan said:
But you are looking at it purely from a Spurs perspective.
The fact Spurs are in a load of cup competitions and have had games postponed because of the virus (as have we) isn’t Villa’s fault or problem.
Can you seriously say if the roles were reversed you’d happily send the kids to play our first team ?
cretinousgoat Yesterday at 2:47 PM
By the same idiotic logic, the fact you fucking scumbags can't stay virus free isn't spurs fault or problem either.
We're not playing 3 or 4 games in a fucking week again because you dirty villa monkeys can't stay virus free.
Give us the points or play your kids. Simple.
Now fuck off back to the villa forum shithole you crawled yo bitch ass out from
https://thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/the-impact-of-covid-on-spurs-football.35718/page-51
A simple yes or no would have done.
Due to common sense and Fulham’s goodwill they have no additional fixture congestion now but they’re still moaning. Truth is we run them close twice last year and this year we’re much improved #spursrunningscared
Post by: eamonn on January 11, 2021, 11:45:02 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 12, 2021, 10:18:55 AM
Post by: LeeB on January 12, 2021, 10:22:16 AM
Erm not sure a headbutt in the knee will sort him out.
He did go round and knocked on the door, but when the bloke opened it he couldn't see anyone.
Post by: Villafirst on January 12, 2021, 03:02:11 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Post by: andyh on January 12, 2021, 03:08:13 PM
I see Fulham manager Parker is whingeing about playing Spurs on Wednesday night. Ffs Villa had to cobble together a kids team with 24 hours notice against Liverpool! Fulham rested several first team players at the weekend against QPR in the FA Cup. Get a grip!He is a whinging ******.
Does he recall how much notice Fulham gave when calling off their game against Spurs, due to members of his squad having it?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2021, 04:39:42 PM
Post by: oishiiniku on January 12, 2021, 04:54:08 PM
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2021, 04:55:31 PM
Post by: Big Ming on January 12, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
I’d be horrified if someone spoke like that on here to another fan and I’m sure they would be facing a ban too.I expect Tottenham will have their own Covid problems before too long. Seems inevitable.
Interesting to see their about turn when the boot is on the other foot.
PS: Weren't three of theirs caught at a New Years Party?
Post by: brontebilly on January 12, 2021, 05:20:14 PM
Post by: Dave on January 12, 2021, 05:40:59 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2021, 05:45:29 PM
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2021, 05:50:54 PM
Rumours that the Everton game is going to be postponed again.Source?
Post by: Astnor on January 12, 2021, 05:58:37 PM
The Mirror.Rumours that the Everton game is going to be postponed again.Source?
Post by: Astnor on January 12, 2021, 05:59:49 PM
Post by: Clampy on January 12, 2021, 06:00:33 PM
The Mirror.Rumours that the Everton game is going to be postponed again.Source?
James Nursey so it may well be bollocks.
Post by: Dave on January 12, 2021, 06:04:07 PM
Post by: oishiiniku on January 12, 2021, 06:30:06 PM
Post by: Clampy on January 12, 2021, 06:39:03 PM
Post by: andyh on January 12, 2021, 07:01:54 PM
A winter break should be in order.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 12, 2021, 07:04:38 PM
Trez has confirmed that he has tested positive.
Get well soon Trez
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 12, 2021, 09:43:18 PM
John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph
·
3h
#avfc have asked the Premier League to postpone Sunday's match against Everton. Premier League to discuss in a meeting tomorrow. Villa fear they will not be permitted into training ground until Saturday after Covid outbreak
Post by: Gerrin on January 12, 2021, 10:21:20 PM
Tweet
John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph
·
3h
#avfc have asked the Premier League to postpone Sunday's match against Everton. Premier League to discuss in a meeting tomorrow. Villa fear they will not be permitted into training ground until Saturday after Covid outbreak
The Man City game is already re-arranged, the Newcastle game can be played on a cup weekend, neither of which were our fault.
We went over and beyond to fulfil the Liverpool cup tie. Nobody knows how serious our players have been affected, I think the Everton game is most likely to soon.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2021, 10:27:44 PM
Post by: basavfc on January 12, 2021, 10:30:53 PM
Anyone else think the Everton game will come too soon and will also need to be postponed ?
no chance it'll be postponed, the 10 day isolation period will be over with enough time for us to have a couple of days training, there's no way the league will let us (or any other club in that circumstance) delay after the isolation period.
So i wasn't that wide of the mark then and I think it's the right thing to do !
Post by: WassallVillain on January 12, 2021, 10:37:26 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 12, 2021, 11:43:53 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on January 13, 2021, 03:33:39 AM
Post by: wince on January 13, 2021, 08:31:35 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 13, 2021, 08:38:32 AM
Move all European matches to June, with them reduced to one leg games.
Gives until end of May to get domestic football sorted with an additional nine midweek slots to do so. You could have playoffs in June, too, if need be.
Massively reduces the chances of further spreading the new strain around during the winter months when health services are most stretched.
No need to cancel anything, better chance of crowds being allowed at the Euros and World Cup. Everyone wins.
Post by: PhilVill on January 13, 2021, 09:07:05 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 13, 2021, 09:08:17 AM
Move Euros to 2022, move World Cup to 2023. Shorten format of qualifying for Euro 2024 by removing Nations League and playoffs.That level of sense will never catch on
Move all European matches to June, with them reduced to one leg games.
Gives until end of May to get domestic football sorted with an additional nine midweek slots to do so. You could have playoffs in June, too, if need be.
Massively reduces the chances of further spreading the new strain around during the winter months when health services are most stretched.
No need to cancel anything, better chance of crowds being allowed at the Euros and World Cup. Everyone wins.
Post by: olaftab on January 13, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 13, 2021, 09:38:20 AM
Tested positive four days ago and would consider myself as a mild case but still feel pretty pants. If large numbers of players and staff same as me there's no chance they could train, never mind play. It really zaps your energy levels
get well soon. This is my fear about the first team squad. Fatigue will really hit home now and if some of our key players have covid they may not be match fit for months.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 13, 2021, 09:52:20 AM
Tested positive four days ago and would consider myself as a mild case but still feel pretty pants. If large numbers of players and staff same as me there's no chance they could train, never mind play. It really zaps your energy levels 😷😴
Get well soon Phil.
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2021, 09:58:20 AM
Post by: PhilVill on January 13, 2021, 10:23:42 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2021, 10:36:51 AM
Post by: oishiiniku on January 13, 2021, 11:17:10 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 13, 2021, 11:26:55 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2021, 11:29:08 AM
They rested a few for the cup games but we are going to be somewhat undercooked.
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 13, 2021, 11:47:51 AM
Cheers all 😊, work in a 24/7 call centre so was just a matter of time tbh. Would say a mild case is like a mild case of flu so it's not dreadful but you can see how it really floor's those already sick and vulnerable. 🤒
Strength and wishes for your recovery. Take care. Up the Villa
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2021, 11:56:06 AM
Post by: WassallVillain on January 13, 2021, 12:06:32 PM
According to a report in The Independent, largely sourced from PA, BH remains closed and the game is unlikely to go ahead.
There needs to be a full and frank investigation to the rampant covid 19 outbreak at Villa training ground
And the results published.
Every player who has it should be named . So far only Trez has been named.Trez has confirmed that he has tested positive.
Get well soon Trez
I suspect that everyting is being kept under wraps to what occurred hopefully in time the reason is given as its the worse case by far in the league and has severely impacted villas training, playing and season.
The in house keeping secrets is not at all good in line with the rest of society doing what they can to stop transmission.
Not only this its pushing for the league to have a break because its do ridiculous as it is unsafe and players unwell that it is to continue.Tweet
John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph
·
3h
#avfc have asked the Premier League to postpone Sunday's match against Everton. Premier League to discuss in a meeting tomorrow. Villa fear they will not be permitted into training ground until Saturday after Covid outbreak
Percy is ITK so that's good enough to me although I suspected and forecasted my self that games would be postponed .
So Villa vs Everton is postponed
Hi Footy. Everybody is entitled to patient confidentiality. You seem obsessed by the possibility that players engaged in nefarious activities leading to this without evidence. In this day and age it is near impossible that such an event could be kept quiet. If at some stage in the future near or far something comes out then action should be taken but I will be surprised if it does
Consider older support staff having family Christmas celebrations as the cause
Look at the players spending time travelling on team coach to and from 2 virus hotspots in close succession.
I would guess the club is desperate to play the games. With the shortened season there is no benefit to not playing as the players that could play now, possibly with reduced power will be operating the same later due to overload.
Post by: saunders_heroes on January 13, 2021, 12:25:25 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill link= topic=60688.msg3892726#msg3892726 date=1610538247
There needs to be a full and frank investigation to the rampant covid 19 outbreak at Villa training ground
And the results published.
Every player who has it should be named . So far only Trez has been named.
Fuckin’ hell... ::)
Post by: PhilVill on January 13, 2021, 12:38:12 PM
Thankyou, that's £25'000 please...
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2021, 12:41:53 PM
It is entirely up to the individual to reveal their health status, it is not up to anybody else.
Trez appears to have done it as he feels its a test of faith; bad luck coming in threes.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 13, 2021, 12:48:52 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2021, 01:06:04 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2021, 01:07:17 PM
not that we have players that are Ill.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 13, 2021, 01:15:08 PM
A full and frank investigation : someone at Villa, or a family member, got Covid, went training with the squad where they passed it to a few others and then the others did the same.
Thankyou, that's £25'000 please...
Not so fast Hercule Poirot
Trez:
"After needing 6 stitches due to my head injury, I suffered from a muscle tear and a hamstring injury and I was absent for a month. And then after rehabilitation and returning to the team training, I was infected with the coronavirus.
Thanks God for everything. May god heal every patient.”
So we can deduce that he is not the instigatorThere are thousands of ways they could have picked it up without breaking any lockdown rules. It could be that one Villa employee brought it into Bodymoor Heath or individuals caught it separately. There is absolutely no need to be naming and shaming people for getting sick during a pandemic. Please don't turn into some maniac Daily Mail reading Tottenham fan, FV mate.
Yes well you can see it like that others can see it like as being detective to find clues and solve the mystery that is how did covid 19 occur at bodmoor heath?
If those with an eye for detail can step forward. Miss Marple style maybe we at H and V can seek to find some clues ? Our very own cluedo . We can already eliminate Trezeguet from our enquiries
Now I can begin that beginning with the GK emi martinez he has recently posted himself on social media with his child at a nursery... and thank you NHS included in one of his photos.. the plot thickens
Please stop. Using works like "instigator" is peak victim-blaming. I'm asking nicely. Pack it in, please?
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2021, 01:18:59 PM
He’s dying for it to be Jack.
Absurd .
I don't want anyone dying!
If you have any Miss Marple in you can take part in the h and v investigating
We don’t need an H&V investigation. You’re talking absolute nonsense about a subject you know nothing about and everything is conjured in your head. You’re trying really hard to make this into something that it isn’t. You’re trying to find someone to blame and given the garbage you’ve posted about Jack for ages you would love to be him who started all of this to justify your criticism of him. Stop with the mindless hysteria on something you have no real knowledge about.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on January 13, 2021, 01:24:00 PM
A full and frank investigation : someone at Villa, or a family member, got Covid, went training with the squad where they passed it to a few others and then the others did the same.
Thankyou, that's £25'000 please...
Not so fast Hercule Poirot
Trez:
"After needing 6 stitches due to my head injury, I suffered from a muscle tear and a hamstring injury and I was absent for a month. And then after rehabilitation and returning to the team training, I was infected with the coronavirus.
Thanks God for everything. May god heal every patient.”
So we can deduce that he is not the instigatorThere are thousands of ways they could have picked it up without breaking any lockdown rules. It could be that one Villa employee brought it into Bodymoor Heath or individuals caught it separately. There is absolutely no need to be naming and shaming people for getting sick during a pandemic. Please don't turn into some maniac Daily Mail reading Tottenham fan, FV mate.
Yes well you can see it like that others can see it like as being detective to find clues and solve the mystery that is how did covid 19 occur at bodmoor heath?
If those with an eye for detail can step forward. Miss Marple style maybe we at H and V can seek to find some clues ? Our very own cluedo . We can already eliminate Trezeguet from our enquiries
Now I can begin that beginning with the GK emi martinez he has recently posted himself on social media with his child at a nursery... and thank you NHS included in one of his photos.. the plot thickens
Embarrassing.
Post by: andyh on January 13, 2021, 01:28:59 PM
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2021, 01:42:25 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2021, 01:44:33 PM
Kyle Walker Bunga Bunga party,
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 13, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
I bet Milner wouldn’t catch covid.
Covid-19 can impact anyone actually even a model pro.
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2021, 01:48:13 PM
I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
We await your private investigation with anticipation.
Post by: cannock villa on January 13, 2021, 01:59:44 PM
I bet Milner wouldn’t catch covid.
Covid-19 can impact anyone actually even a model pro.
Think he probably meant that tongue in cheek
Post by: eamonn on January 13, 2021, 02:05:14 PM
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 13, 2021, 02:20:57 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 13, 2021, 02:25:35 PM
I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
Was it Colonel Mustard, with a Candlestick, in the Billiard room?
Post by: Mister E on January 13, 2021, 02:43:37 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/12/scott-parker-scandalous-fulham-spurs-jose-mourinho-rearranged
Quote
José Mourinho says Fulham will owe the rest of the Premier League an apology if they field a full-strength team in Wednesday’s rearranged match at Tottenham.
The Spurs manager has been angered by what he perceives to have been a reluctance on Fulham’s part to play the game at short notice. He suggested the only grounds for them not to do so was if they had selection issues but he does not believe they have any.
Scott Parker, the Fulham manager, said the league told him and his club at 9.30am on Monday they would have to fulfil the fixture, which was postponed on 30 December after a Covid outbreak at Fulham. Parker described the notice period as “scandalous”. The league rescheduled the game after Spurs’s original opponents, Aston Villa, were forced to withdraw because of a rise in coronavirus cases at their club.
Mourinho has no sympathy for Fulham and he railed against “selfish” agendas that he fears could stand in the way of the season being completed.
“We should wait for tomorrow and see Fulham’s team … [and] the players not involved,” Mourinho said. “After that we can all feel sorry for them or we can all think that they shouldn’t speak. My feeling is the best Fulham will be here. So when we see the best Fulham you realise lots of things don’t make sense.
“We played 11 more matches than Fulham since the beginning of the season [it is actually 10]. They played Saturday against QPR. In London. They have Sunday, Monday and Tuesday to prepare. If they come with half of the team, I will be the first one to apologise to them. And I will be the first one to say we played this game with an advantage. If they come with their best, I think they should apologise to all of us. Come on, let’s play football. Let’s behave the best we can. Let’s protect our industry.”
Parker seethed as he laid out the difficulties he now faces. He fielded a strong team in the FA Cup win over QPR – Fulham’s first game since Boxing Day and their Covid shutdown – because he thought he had more time to prepare for a home match against Chelsea on Friday. That has been shifted to Saturday. Parker questioned whether a bigger club would have been treated in the same way and expressed fears over player welfare.
“We knew last week that Aston Villa’s game [against Spurs] would probably be called off,” Parker said. “Tell us then. If we had known this Thursday or Friday, not a problem. If the complication has happened over the weekend or someone has given a suggestion: ‘Oh, we could change that fixture with that one’, then that is just too late.
“There are players stuck in their house for 10 days [in self-isolation] and who have done no work. Even for the players to have a week’s work to play on Friday [against Chelsea] would have been some ask. To now chuck in a game in the middle of the week is another story … There’s no denying that injuries could be a higher risk. I’m disappointed, I’m angry, I think it’s unfair and I think it’s wrong. Outrageously wrong.”
The league is unhappy at Parker’s comments. It says Fulham were made aware before they kicked off against QPR there was the strong possibility they would have to face Spurs on Wednesday but it was impossible to confirm until Monday because of a number of factors, including the requirements of broadcasters.
Mourinho complained he had been told only a couple of hours before kick-off about the postponement of the original Fulham game whereas they had more than 48 hours to prepare for this one.
“Getting a game called off two hours or 48 hours before is really an irrelevance,” Parker said. “José will know only too well that you plan structures. Tottenham knew they had a fixture [on Wednesday]. His team selection on Sunday [at Marine] suggested that. Would this have happened with a top-of-the-table clash with two of the biggest teams? Probably not. This is not acceptable.”
Mourinho said the “main question” was whether people wanted the season to finish: “If we all are very selfish or if we all want the perfect situation for ourselves, it’s going to be very, very difficult for the Premier League to make it amazing for everyone.”
He added that Spurs had positive Covid tests “almost every week”. “One assistant coach, one player, one medical staff … We never tried to take any advantage of it.”[\quote]
Post by: cannock villa on January 13, 2021, 02:43:47 PM
No, it was Grealish,with a Range Rover, in BirminghamI don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
Was it Colonel Mustard, with a Candlestick, in the Billiard room?
Post by: amfy on January 13, 2021, 02:49:54 PM
I have worn a mask for all of my work visits to families for some time now. I sanitise my hands before and after visits, and before and after any trips into shops. I keep to 2m distancing as much as possible.....but I still got it because I am in a job where it’s not possible to fully maintain social distancing all of the time. I am pretty sure it’s the same for Phil.
If you have to work, you’ll be taking risks and footballers are no different. There’s no need to be pointing fingers at anyone.
I should also add that my mum has been using Sainsbury’s at Mere Green where you’ll see many Villa Wives and girlfriends picking up a few bits. She says it’s a complete shambles in there with no distancing, no adherence to the one way system, and a fairly relaxed attitude to mask wearing. The villa players partners themselves don’t have to be among the ones not adhering to the rules to end up bringing that risk home. There’s one perfectly innocent explanation straight off.
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Private investigation? Chances are somebody picked it up from the supermarket, or the petrol station or the postman or wheeling the dustbin bin back in or from their kids.... and then inadvertently passed it on.I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
You will NEVER know. You don't need to invetigate. It doesn't have to have been an illicit party with drugs and hookers, however much you want it to be.
Post by: eamonn on January 13, 2021, 02:55:08 PM
It matters because we will soon be forced to resume playing without those infected players.
Absolutely. I meant more from the perspective of those trying to "out" the naughty, errant members of the squad (should there be any).
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2021, 03:10:32 PM
I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
What a bizarre comment. What are you going to do? Hack their medical records or go through their bins?
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 13, 2021, 03:15:29 PM
Depending on who the missing players are it may be the end of our top 6 chase and possibly even the end of our top 10 hopes. Still been a cracking season for us though, whatever the outcome.
In the long run though, finishing top 4/6 may have been the minimum requirement to keep our best players and recruit some more top quality players. So the answer to the title of this thread may well depend on exactly which players are ill and which players are 'enjoying' a ten day rest ?
Post by: Mouse Potato on January 13, 2021, 03:29:29 PM
Next Wednesday, Villa will be forced to play Man City with at least 9 players unavailable due to Covid. Possibly more players may be unavailable, if they have joined the number of infected over the past 10 days. This may turn out to be the biggest single blow to our title chase.
Depending on who the missing players are it may be the end of our top 6 chase and possibly even the end of our top 10 hopes. Still been a cracking season for us though, whatever the outcome.
In the long run though, finishing top 4/6 may have been the minimum requirement to keep our best players and recruit some more top quality players. So the answer to the title of this thread may well depend on exactly which players are ill and which players are 'enjoying' a ten day rest ?
Where are you getting your information from? How do you know...
A) That we will have at least 9 players unavailable
B) That we will be forced to play with said 9 unavailable players.
The quarantine period is 10 days and we would be well over that by next Wednesday. The risk is that the affected players will not be up to playing due to the effects of the virus and lack of fitness.
Post by: Drummond on January 13, 2021, 03:55:51 PM
I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
We await your private investigation with anticipation.
No, no we really don't.
It's so tabloid footy. Nobody cares and you'll never know anyway. There are myriad ways it could have happened. Nobody can be completely safe from this and endless speculation just posses people off as it's so unnecessary.
Post by: andyh on January 13, 2021, 03:56:19 PM
He doesn’t need to know who has it, who had it or how it was passed for a very simple reason.Private investigation? Chances are somebody picked it up from the supermarket, or the petrol station or the postman or wheeling the dustbin bin back in or from their kids.... and then inadvertently passed it on.I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
You will NEVER know. You don't need to invetigate. It doesn't have to have been an illicit party with drugs and hookers, however much you want it to be.
It’s none of his fucking business !!!!
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 13, 2021, 04:18:09 PM
The press release from AVFC stated 9 players and 5 staff have positive tests. Therefore 9 players will not be fit to play. More may now be positive than were last week. However, at least 9 players will not be fit enough by next wednesday.. we will be forced to play because the rest will be released from isolation and, if negative, will be used to make up a team to play.Next Wednesday, Villa will be forced to play Man City with at least 9 players unavailable due to Covid. Possibly more players may be unavailable, if they have joined the number of infected over the past 10 days. This may turn out to be the biggest single blow to our title chase.
Depending on who the missing players are it may be the end of our top 6 chase and possibly even the end of our top 10 hopes. Still been a cracking season for us though, whatever the outcome.
In the long run though, finishing top 4/6 may have been the minimum requirement to keep our best players and recruit some more top quality players. So the answer to the title of this thread may well depend on exactly which players are ill and which players are 'enjoying' a ten day rest ?
Where are you getting your information from? How do you know...
A) That we will have at least 9 players unavailable
B) That we will be forced to play with said 9 unavailable players.
The quarantine period is 10 days and we would be well over that by next Wednesday. The risk is that the affected players will not be up to playing due to the effects of the virus and lack of fitness.
Post by: WassallVillain on January 13, 2021, 04:39:07 PM
Next Wednesday, Villa will be forced to play Man City with at least 9 players unavailable due to Covid. Possibly more players may be unavailable, if they have joined the number of infected over the past 10 days. This may turn out to be the biggest single blow to our title chase.
Depending on who the missing players are it may be the end of our top 6 chase and possibly even the end of our top 10 hopes. Still been a cracking season for us though, whatever the outcome.
In the long run though, finishing top 4/6 may have been the minimum requirement to keep our best players and recruit some more top quality players. So the answer to the title of this thread may well depend on exactly which players are ill and which players are 'enjoying' a ten day rest ?
Not necessarily. They could all be asymptomatic.
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2021, 04:56:41 PM
There won't be any reliable reports as nobody will ever know exactly where it came from. It's a non point, just drop it.Its because I care about the club and welfare as well as the bigger picture I made suggestions in first place.He doesn’t need to know who has it, who had it or how it was passed for a very simple reason.Private investigation? Chances are somebody picked it up from the supermarket, or the petrol station or the postman or wheeling the dustbin bin back in or from their kids.... and then inadvertently passed it on.I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
You will NEVER know. You don't need to invetigate. It doesn't have to have been an illicit party with drugs and hookers, however much you want it to be.
It’s none of his fucking business !!!!
Anything in contrast to not only my boundaries but to the very laws and rules to make sure everyone is OK and rules in place is fair , reasonable and rational
Totally wrong to say not my or anyone business last thing we want is people being put at risk or the speculation so that will end with any attempts of accusatory whatever I hear.
We can await when reliable reports from likes of Percy , Evans , or BBC sports like Roan and the WM have any further news.
Above all else we want this to have least impact as it can but already its a disruption. So if its something that could have been avoided or contained rather than the 10 players then that is all that needs to be checked out and belive you me it will be all sorts of club , local council , premier league, police and welfare officials
If you have a different attitude then fair enough but it's moral duties that help tackling covid 19 and protecting lives and NHS in assistance to Vaccine.
No issues here as no mention of want may have occurred will be written here.
Clearly serves no purpose but it will forever be the background to the postponed matches occurring so was always reasonable to speculate how the outbreak occurred at Bodymoor.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2021, 05:00:38 PM
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2021, 05:16:52 PM
I don't think we really need to know who caught it and who didn't, that's totally irrelevant. Besides, that's a private matter and not for the club to divulge. What matters is that whoever did get it either recovers if they were ill or hopefully only had mild symptoms. Footy's belief that the club should name and shame is bizarre and unnecessary.Well we can drop the case and wait to see.
But once anything has been put in public domain I'm sure many will comment so its hardly bizarre
Enough then I'll do my own private invisatgion and won't post anything on the bodymoor heath covid!
Clearly little interest by some so fair enough.
We await your private investigation with anticipation.
No, no we really don't.
It's so tabloid footy. Nobody cares and you'll never know anyway. There are myriad ways it could have happened. Nobody can be completely safe from this and endless speculation just posses people off as it's so unnecessary.
I'm not bringing any investigation or informants forward already said case isn't to run on here. Matter dropped
Ideally we like all the players want to have the chance to explain their side of things, Fair play Trezeguet has come forward and at worst we don't want division in squad by players themselves blaming any one . Hopefully it will all be harmonic
No-one needs to explain anything. Like it's already been said, it's none of our business who caught it. If you care for gossip, buy Hello mazagine or pop on Mumsnet.
Post by: olaftab on January 13, 2021, 06:38:44 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 13, 2021, 06:42:25 PM
Post by: Astnor on January 13, 2021, 06:51:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 13, 2021, 06:54:44 PM
This is not a doubting Thomas question but can I ask why is BMH still closed? Surely a facility can be properly cleaned in 24/48 hours and passed fit for use another day or so later.
I assume because there's no point reopening it until the quarantine is over.
Post by: Dave on January 13, 2021, 06:56:05 PM
This is not a doubting Thomas question but can I ask why is BMH still closed? Surely a facility can be properly cleaned in 24/48 hours and passed fit for use another day or so later.
If none of the players are allowed to train at it, does it need to be open?
I'm guessing it's euphemistic - it's closed in the sense that the players aren't training there.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2021, 07:11:46 PM
Post by: Sdwbvf on January 13, 2021, 08:52:05 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 13, 2021, 09:10:30 PM
Post by: john2710 on January 13, 2021, 09:10:43 PM
Post by: Astnor on January 13, 2021, 10:21:34 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on January 14, 2021, 03:08:04 AM
Torygraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/01/13/aston-villa-granted-second-postponement-premier-league-poised/)
Post by: wince on January 14, 2021, 08:30:16 AM
Post by: CT on January 14, 2021, 08:43:23 AM
For those who want to put players who have been infected. Really? Are we just looking for scandal given the voracity of the new variant and the lapses across the whole of football even in game (hugging, shaming hands etc). How would you feel to have your private information splashed in the media. All we need to know is players tested positive players and staff isolate. Any indiscretions or rulebreaking should be handled by the club or by the law. If there are major breaches that were illegal then the appropriate action should be taken but we are assuming that this has been caused by someone flouting the rules when it could have been far more innocent. I still stand by my view either postpone the sport or vaccinate the sport. Far cheaper than the testing that is taking place.
Exactly. It’s very Piers Morgan. Find a scapegoat and than hammer them for days on end.
I just hope all our lads are OK and no one suffers from the longer covid that a couple of the Newcastle players seem to have.
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2021, 08:58:37 AM
Post by: andyh on January 14, 2021, 09:04:27 AM
It’s important for this to be in the public domain so that we can all understand the implications.
DID HE HAVE THE SQUITS OR NOT, I NEED TO KNOW!
Post by: Dave P on January 14, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
Post by: algy on January 14, 2021, 10:22:59 AM
John Percy says the PL have agreed to postpone the Everton game.
Torygraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/01/13/aston-villa-granted-second-postponement-premier-league-poised/)
De-paywalled
Quote
Aston Villa granted second postponement with Premier League poised to call off Everton match
Nine of Villa’s players and five members of staff tested positive for coronavirus last week, leading to considerable disruption
By John Percy
13 January 2021 • 10:53pm
Aston Villa’s match against Everton on Sunday is expected to be called off by the Premier League after a board meeting on Wednesday.
The Premier League has agreed to postpone Villa’s second match in a row after a severe outbreak of Covid-19 at the club’s training ground.
Nine of Villa’s players and five members of staff tested positive for coronavirus last week and it is understood that the Midlands side may not be permitted to enter their Bodymoor Heath base until Saturday at the earliest, following talks with Public Health England.
Villa were scheduled to play Everton at midday on Sunday, giving Dean Smith and his squad barely 24 hours to prepare for a top-flight game.
The Midlands club’s match against Tottenham, originally scheduled for Wednesday night, was postponed over the weekend and the club has argued it will be unfair to play Everton on Sunday with so little preparation.
Smith and his squad have been self-isolating following the outbreak last week and the players have not trained since.
The Premier League board has accepted that Villa are operating under extraordinary circumstances and the game will be rearranged for later in the season. Villa return to league action with a trip to Manchester City on Wednesday night.
Meanwhile, Southampton’s disrupted FA Cup third-round tie against Shrewsbury Town has been rescheduled for January 19. Next week’s Premier League fixture at Leeds has been postponed.
The Cup game had been set for January 9, but was called off because of a coronavirus flare-up at the League One club.
Sheffield Wednesday’s next two Championship games have also been suspended due to a Covid-19 outbreak.
Wednesday reported a “significant number” of club personnel returned positive results for coronavirus last week.
Wednesday managed to play Exeter in the FA Cup last weekend, but will not be able to face Coventry and Wycombe, on January 16 and 19 respectively, in the league.
Post by: Dave P on January 14, 2021, 10:28:25 AM
Post by: johnc on January 14, 2021, 10:40:16 AM
Newcastle at home now Saturday 23rd January at 8pm. Clashes with the Masked Singer. When will they think of the fans for once!Barkley might be fit by then!
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 14, 2021, 10:40:48 AM
Newcastle at home now Saturday 23rd January at 8pm. Clashes with the Masked Singer. When will they think of the fans for once!Cheers for update and info
Really the clash should be that of the masked players
Post by: Dave P on January 14, 2021, 10:54:44 AM
Newcastle at home now Saturday 23rd January at 8pm. Clashes with the Masked Singer. When will they think of the fans for once!Cheers for update and info
Really the clash should be that of the masked players
Haha very good!
Post by: placeforparks on January 14, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Newcastle at home now Saturday 23rd January at 8pm. Clashes with the Masked Singer. When will they think of the fans for once!
the odd kick-off time is because they don't want the match to clash with any televised fa cup games.
our match will be shown on sky sports btw.
Post by: not3bad on January 14, 2021, 11:57:40 AM
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2021, 12:10:50 PM
Newcastle at home now Saturday 23rd January at 8pm. Clashes with the Masked Singer. When will they think of the fans for once!Barkley might be fit by then!
Maybe he is the masked singer.
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2021, 12:11:51 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2021, 12:14:34 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 14, 2021, 12:20:34 PM
Sorry if going over old ground but how come Saints v Shrews was postponed in the Cup and we wuznt ?
I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave moments ago in the ‘Other Games’ thread.
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 14, 2021, 12:21:50 PM
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2021, 12:26:24 PM
Post by: fbriai on January 14, 2021, 12:27:03 PM
Bardell on Twitter is saying we have 5 games in 12 days. Can't be right, can it ? Might be worth getting Mourinho on loan for a few days just so he can get our games spaced-out better.
It's actually 13 days, but it was nothing to do with matches being postponed as the calendar would have been like that anyway had we not lost to Liverpool in the cup. We have:
20/01 - Man C (a)
23/01 - Newcastle (h)
27/01 - Burnley (a)
30/01 - Southampton (a)
02/02 - West Ham (h)
From then on, not being in European competition and being out of the cups, there is ample opportunity to reschedule the two postponed matches:
06/02 - Arsenal (h)
13/02 - Brighton (a)
20/02 - Leicester (h)
27/02 - Leeds (a)
06/03 - Wolves (h)
13/03 - Newcastle (a)
20/03 - Sheff Utd (a)
03/04 - Fulham (h)
10/04 - Liverpool (a)
17/04 - Man City (h)
24/04 - WBA (h)
01/05 - Everton (a)
08/05 - Man Utd (h)
11/05 - Crystal Palace (a)
15/05 - Spurs (a)
23/05 - Chelsea (h)
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2021, 01:00:49 PM
Sounds defeatist but if any of our top guns were only feeling 50/50 for Citeh, I'd hold them back for Newcastle. 3 points from 6 in those games would be ok.
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2021, 01:06:19 PM
Bardell on Twitter is saying we have 5 games in 12 days. Can't be right, can it ? Might be worth getting Mourinho on loan for a few days just so he can get our games spaced-out better.
It's actually 13 days, but it was nothing to do with matches being postponed as the calendar would have been like that anyway had we not lost to Liverpool in the cup. We have:
20/01 - Man C (a)
23/01 - Newcastle (h)
27/01 - Burnley (a)
30/01 - Southampton (a)
02/02 - West Ham (h)
That's really just the schedule of a team that's qualified for Europe, nothing too much to worry about.
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on January 14, 2021, 01:10:16 PM
A mid-season break will probably have helped us significantly. We are a high energy side, Barkley and Trez ought to have recovered from injury. 20 days off. Bonus?
Potentially, however the fact that we’re still some way off the halfway point of the season (23 games to go, in just over 4 months) might come back to bite us, fitness wise, towards the end of the season.
Post by: OCD on January 14, 2021, 01:10:33 PM
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2021, 01:15:01 PM
Newcastle at home now Saturday 23rd January at 8pm. Clashes with the Masked Singer. When will they think of the fans for once!Barkley might be fit by then!
Is he one of the singers do you think?
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2021, 01:16:28 PM
Those sides normally have strength in depth though.
It's only for two weeks. And if it's strength in depth you're after, well it is the transfer window!
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2021, 01:17:30 PM
Newcastle at home now Saturday 23rd January at 8pm. Clashes with the Masked Singer. When will they think of the fans for once!Barkley might be fit by then!
Is he one of the singers do you think?
Perhaps somebody could arrange a mask for Bruce. Not for the singing nonsense or Covid, he's just an ugly bastard.
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2021, 01:23:35 PM
Getting those 2 league games in is important though, for 2 reasons, first we're going to be 4 games behind schedule by Monday night, even with all the midweek slots that's getting towards being pretty difficult to manage. Secondly, and potentially more important, there was apparently an agreement that if at least half the season is completed it can be done on PPG if it needs to be suspended. As things stand now that means by the end of the month every club will be at that point, I think the league have been pushing on getting these games rearranged asap for that very reason. If they do decide to stop elite sport for a while I suspect it will be timed to coincide with that.
Post by: aj2k77 on January 14, 2021, 01:28:04 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2021, 02:04:47 PM
I'd worry more about the after effects from covid on the players than the schedule. How many games have they played in the last 5 months?have any of them got or had Covid?
Post by: Dave on January 14, 2021, 02:25:24 PM
I'd worry more about the after effects from covid on the players than the schedule. How many games have they played in the last 5 months?have any of them got or had Covid?
Trezeguet has.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2021, 02:54:58 PM
OK. But I keep seeing posts that confuse testing positive with being Ill.I'd worry more about the after effects from covid on the players than the schedule. How many games have they played in the last 5 months?have any of them got or had Covid?
Trezeguet has.
Post by: andyh on January 14, 2021, 03:03:37 PM
12 points for us there 👍Bardell on Twitter is saying we have 5 games in 12 days. Can't be right, can it ? Might be worth getting Mourinho on loan for a few days just so he can get our games spaced-out better.
It's actually 13 days, but it was nothing to do with matches being postponed as the calendar would have been like that anyway had we not lost to Liverpool in the cup. We have:
20/01 - Man C (a)
23/01 - Newcastle (h)
27/01 - Burnley (a)
30/01 - Southampton (a)
02/02 - West Ham (h)
That's really just the schedule of a team that's qualified for Europe, nothing too much to worry about.
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2021, 03:36:19 PM
12 points for us there 👍Bardell on Twitter is saying we have 5 games in 12 days. Can't be right, can it ? Might be worth getting Mourinho on loan for a few days just so he can get our games spaced-out better.
It's actually 13 days, but it was nothing to do with matches being postponed as the calendar would have been like that anyway had we not lost to Liverpool in the cup. We have:
20/01 - Man C (a)
23/01 - Newcastle (h)
27/01 - Burnley (a)
30/01 - Southampton (a)
02/02 - West Ham (h)
That's really just the schedule of a team that's qualified for Europe, nothing too much to worry about.
5 times 3 is 15 andy! Silly boy! :)
Post by: olaftab on January 14, 2021, 03:45:09 PM
That's really just the schedule of a team that's qualified for Europe, nothing too much to worry about.And we will be fresh after the mid season winter break.
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2021, 04:30:31 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 14, 2021, 07:26:51 PM
12 points for us there 👍It's actually 13 days, but it was nothing to do with matches being postponed as the calendar would have been like that anyway had we not lost to Liverpool in the cup. We have:
20/01 - Man C (a)
23/01 - Newcastle (h)
27/01 - Burnley (a)
30/01 - Southampton (a)
02/02 - West Ham (h)
That's really just the schedule of a team that's qualified for Europe, nothing too much to worry about.
5 times 3 is 15 andy! Silly boy! :)
Think we'll lose to Citeh, draw with Burnley and Soton and beat Noocastle and West Ham. 6/7 or less would be disappointing, 8-10 good, 11+ excellent. Obviously hope andyh and even more so Risso have it right. :) However until we know the Covid impact on the squad it's hard to judge.
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2021, 07:33:03 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2021, 07:41:15 PM
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2021, 09:27:17 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on January 15, 2021, 12:14:01 PM
It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 15, 2021, 12:18:31 PM
It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
As soon as we get back to Bodymoor I imagine they'll be doing all the tests you can to assess endurance and intensity levels and if there's any siginificant drop off compared to normal levels.
One thing that's really impressed me this season is how strongly we've finished many games, a few last minute winners etc and that's something you rarely saw with even good Villa teams in the past so we might struggle to replicate that in the next few games.
Post by: Lsvilla on January 15, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
I agree about how well we’ve finished games but I think more than that we’ve played with a good tempo in most matches so far compared to some of the guff turned out (eg: Ars/Palace last night). Everyone raves about Leeds but we’ve been pretty good at injecting and keeping pace levels high in games.It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
As soon as we get back to Bodymoor I imagine they'll be doing all the tests you can to assess endurance and intensity levels and if there's any siginificant drop off compared to normal levels.
One thing that's really impressed me this season is how strongly we've finished many games, a few last minute winners etc and that's something you rarely saw with even good Villa teams in the past so we might struggle to replicate that in the next few games.
Post by: Gareth on January 15, 2021, 01:22:01 PM
Assuming we play next Wednesday it will be the most intriguing team selection for a long time as they will have had a maximum of 3 days training presuming that Sunday is a training day not just a testing day? Think we will be very lucky if all 9 who tested positive are fit to play & even if they are Dean might opt to rotate a little? Maybe a couple of the youngsters who played vs Liverpool or the ones who missed out through training with 1st team might find a seat on the bench?
Post by: hipkiss92 on January 15, 2021, 02:23:56 PM
It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
Could be that they were all asymptomatic. That everyone turned up to training as normal and they only closed it after the tests came through suggests that could be the case, with no one displaying symptoms.
Post by: OCD on January 15, 2021, 02:42:50 PM
It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
As soon as we get back to Bodymoor I imagine they'll be doing all the tests you can to assess endurance and intensity levels and if there's any siginificant drop off compared to normal levels.
One thing that's really impressed me this season is how strongly we've finished many games, a few last minute winners etc and that's something you rarely saw with even good Villa teams in the past so we might struggle to replicate that in the next few games.
I don't think it will be as obvious in the next few games as you might think. The fitness coaches will have had them continuing good fitness work and doing zoom sessions with them. If anything, I think they'll be fresh and desperate to re-start. I'm more interested to see if there are any tactical changes as I imagine Smith and the coaches will have done the same as what they did in the first lockdown.
Post by: Gerrin on January 15, 2021, 02:44:07 PM
It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
Could be that they were all asymptomatic. That everyone turned up to training as normal and they only closed it after the tests came through suggests that could be the case, with no one displaying symptoms.
I'm assuming they must've been asymptomatic at the point of testing, as if they were displaying symptom I guess they shouldn't have even been at the training ground. That not to say they symptoms didn't subsequently kick in for all or some of them. I know people that have had it and it totally wiped them out and took them quite a while to fully recover. Fingers crossed our players haven't had it too bad, otherwise it good have very serious affect on our season.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 15, 2021, 06:31:21 PM
It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
We just don't know yet. I've read of marathon runners that after can't make down to the shops without being out of breath. Long haul is a major concern for anybody that's been infected.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 15, 2021, 06:59:58 PM
We just don't know yet. I've read of marathon runners that after can't make down to the shops without being out of breath. Long haul is a major concern for anybody that's been infected.
To be fair if I'd just run a marathon I wouldn't be able to make it down the shops either.
Post by: adrenachrome on January 15, 2021, 07:52:35 PM
It doesn't sound like anybody has actually been ill with it. They've been training in their gardens and gyms, running drills.
Is it with fit individuals like these that it is like having flu that they recover from quite quickly apart from maybe the odd individual ? Or is it a case that we just dont know yet.
We just don't know yet. I've read of marathon runners that after can't make down to the shops without being out of breath. Long haul is a major concern for anybody that's been infected.
Ohio State study: 30% of student athletes have heart damage linked to COVID-19 (https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/ohio-state-study-30-of-student-athletes-have-heart-damage-linked-to-covid-19)
and
Texas Trauma Surgeon Says ‘Post-COVID Lungs Look Worse Than Any Type Of Terrible Smokers Lung We’ve Ever Seen’ (https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/01/13/texas-trauma-surgeon-says-post-covid-lungs-look-worse-than-any-type-of-terrible-smokers-lung-weve-ever-seen/)
Post by: LukeJames on January 15, 2021, 07:53:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 15, 2021, 09:09:01 PM
The kids (and Lansbury) are playing Albion at Bodymoor Heath, is it back open?
There's 2 answers here, yes it is, there were some people on site yesterday apparently but more importantly the academy is a few hundred yards down the road and never closed, that's where they'll have been playing.
Post by: LukeJames on January 15, 2021, 09:28:11 PM
Post by: CT on January 17, 2021, 11:27:47 AM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 17, 2021, 11:49:36 AM
So is everyone back at BMH today. I’m assuming the tenth isolation day was yesterday, so as long as they’re healthy, they should be in?
Yes, according to the Sunday papers.
Post by: oishiiniku on January 17, 2021, 12:23:54 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1350775626865774593?s=20
Post by: Dante Lavelli on January 17, 2021, 09:45:37 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 17, 2021, 10:32:06 PM
Post by: Risso on January 17, 2021, 10:48:49 PM
Isn't Newcastles fast as fuck Saint Maximillion still out since their game against us was postponed in early/mid-December ?
Apparently. Although most Geordies are convinced that's a cover story to hide the fact that he and Bruce had a massive falling out.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 17, 2021, 11:18:28 PM
Isn't Newcastles fast as fuck Saint Maximillion still out since their game against us was postponed in early/mid-December ?
Just got back into training so will probably return v us.
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 17, 2021, 11:34:48 PM
“I told one player that he’d tested positive and he said ‘no chance, I’m flying, really good, totally asymptomatic’, two days later he’s laid up in bed,” “And he ended up symptomatic. So we’ve had a mixture of some players being asymptomatic and some with symptoms.
“The hardest part about this is they all come back at different stages now as well, some have obviously got the symptoms earlier than others.
Post by: Risso on January 17, 2021, 11:47:40 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 18, 2021, 12:25:39 AM
Post by: Risso on January 18, 2021, 12:41:18 AM
Post by: eamonn on January 18, 2021, 01:44:56 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 18, 2021, 02:56:52 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on January 18, 2021, 03:04:41 PM
But before anyone panicks that was on 13th Jan and at that time it was a pretty sensible transfer given the likely game cancellations.
Post by: eamonn on January 18, 2021, 03:31:50 PM
Quote
We've been held to a far higher standard than any other club," Lennon said.
"Protocols at different clubs are inconsistent. As soon as Celtic are deemed to do something wrong, bang, you're all wanting blood, it's absolutely scandalous. The fallout from this has been way too much.
"Aston Villa have shut down, Raith Rovers. They haven't travelled anywhere. We could easily have stayed here and had an outbreak, but because our protocols are so good, we've been able to quell that."
"My apology is to the fans because 13 players and three staff had to isolate for 10 days, which is ludicrous," said Lennon, who will return to the dugout when Celtic face hosts Livingston on Wednesday.
"I'm not apologising for anything else. I'm not apologising for going out there and training for a week. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. We did everything we possibly could to avoid the damage.
"The whole squad is negative bar two players. I think that is remarkable and I think it totally blows out of the water the way the training camp has been portrayed by certain quarters of the media, by certain pundits and by certain government officials as well.
"We did not abuse any privilege, we did the right things. We were absolutely totally professional. We had a little drink in the afternoon on a day off, completely allowed, no law breaking - yet we come back to this barrage of absolute hypocrisy.
"We've come back, we've been absolutely decimated by these rules. It seems political."
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 18, 2021, 03:55:46 PM
Post by: john e on January 18, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
Bit harsh for him to blame us for shutting down Raith Rovers.
Yeah we’ve have never liked those fuckers
Post by: Drummond on January 18, 2021, 05:40:14 PM
16 new positive tests in the Premier league after this weeks round of testing.
What's Grealish been up to now?
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 18, 2021, 05:44:20 PM
Post by: Risso on January 18, 2021, 07:47:07 PM
16 new positive tests in the Premier league after this weeks round of testing.
What's Grealish been up to now?
He hasn't scored a goal in January, I think we should be cashing in.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 19, 2021, 08:31:07 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 19, 2021, 09:22:15 AM
Neil Lennon throws some shade after the criticism of Celtic's Covid-contagion upon returning from warm weather training in Dubai (would Scunthorpe not have sufficed? Compared to Glasgow's climate anyway...):The fact that he can not see why they are being criticised speaks Volumes.QuoteWe've been held to a far higher standard than any other club," Lennon said.
"Protocols at different clubs are inconsistent. As soon as Celtic are deemed to do something wrong, bang, you're all wanting blood, it's absolutely scandalous. The fallout from this has been way too much.
"Aston Villa have shut down, Raith Rovers. They haven't travelled anywhere. We could easily have stayed here and had an outbreak, but because our protocols are so good, we've been able to quell that."
"My apology is to the fans because 13 players and three staff had to isolate for 10 days, which is ludicrous," said Lennon, who will return to the dugout when Celtic face hosts Livingston on Wednesday.
"I'm not apologising for anything else. I'm not apologising for going out there and training for a week. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. We did everything we possibly could to avoid the damage.
"The whole squad is negative bar two players. I think that is remarkable and I think it totally blows out of the water the way the training camp has been portrayed by certain quarters of the media, by certain pundits and by certain government officials as well.
"We did not abuse any privilege, we did the right things. We were absolutely totally professional. We had a little drink in the afternoon on a day off, completely allowed, no law breaking - yet we come back to this barrage of absolute hypocrisy.
"We've come back, we've been absolutely decimated by these rules. It seems political."
Post by: Gerrin on January 19, 2021, 11:13:53 AM
Missing from the pics - Luiz, Targett and El Ghaz by the looks of things.
Post by: Ads on January 19, 2021, 11:29:18 AM
The lesser spotted Barkely is also present.
Post by: Gerrin on January 19, 2021, 11:42:30 AM
Targett, Luiz and Mings are all pictured on multiple photos.
The lesser spotted Barkely is also present.
Spotted Mings, not the other 2. Is that on the official FB page.
Sorry just seen the gallery on the official site.
Post by: Ads on January 19, 2021, 11:44:12 AM
Targett, Luiz and Mings are all pictured on multiple photos.
The lesser spotted Barkely is also present.
Spotted Mings, not the other 2. Is that on the official FB page.
I saw them on AVFC Twitter officially page. Those four names I've mentioned are on multiple pics.
Post by: fbriai on January 19, 2021, 03:31:51 PM
Post by: exigo on January 19, 2021, 06:59:22 PM
Post by: Risso on January 20, 2021, 08:57:21 AM
Anyone seen Hause yet? Think he's the only one other than Trez that I haven't seen in pictures from Bodymoor. Good to see Wes in and amongst it too.
Yes, Hause was in them too.
Post by: Mister E on January 20, 2021, 09:09:50 AM
Post by: Mister E on January 20, 2021, 09:11:37 AM
Quote from: Grauniad
Dean Smith has described the “very scary” scale of the Covid-19 outbreak that forced Aston Villa’s entire squad into isolation this month but says he is in favour of continuing the season.
Nine Villa players and five backroom staff members tested positive as the virus swept through the club, leading to illness and anxiety as well as the closure of the training ground, the postponement of two Premier League matches and the deployment of youth players to fulfil the FA Cup tie against Liverpool.
“It was very scary,” Smith said. “We produced total negative tests on New Year’s Eve and then played Manchester United. We got tested again on 3 January and there were nine positive tests. That raised an alarm straight away and we got tested the following day and then we got another five positive tests after that.
“It was a little bit worrying because nobody knows how and we also know then our bubble has been compromised. We don’t know how as we followed the protocols. It was a scary time because you didn’t really want to touch anything because you didn’t know how it was being transmitted.
“[It was] really frightening. Every time we got tested it seemed somebody else was getting it. A lot of the players and staff were asymptomatic but some symptoms crept up on people. I told one of the players that he’d had a positive test and he felt fine and said: ‘No chance, I’m in a good place.’ Two days later when I spoke to him he was lying in bed with aches and pains.
“How quickly it was getting transmitted was the biggest surprise. You do worry. But we have come through the other side of it now and I am thankful for the quick work of the doctor and the other medical staff who have helped us.”
The Premier League issued tighter restrictions to all clubs last week in an effort to prevent further outbreaks, a move welcomed by Smith. “The stronger protocols needed to come in, definitely, I think that has been proven. The new variant transmits a lot quicker and we saw that for ourselves first hand.”
Smith supports pressing on with the season rather than suspending it. “We knew there were going to be changes to fixtures and we were going into uncharted territory. We knew it was going to be unknown and we would have to react to changes.
“We are in a very privileged position in that we are allowed to continue. I have had to bear 10 days of self-isolation and it was not a problem, knowing there are a lot of people who have not been out of their house since last March. We understand the position we are in. It is a football country and people want to see their teams playing games. If we can keep that show on the road, I think we should do.”
Villa return to action on Wednesday at Manchester City, the first of four matches in 10 days as they work through their fixture backlog. Smith says only one of the players who tested positive this month is definitely unavailable for the match, with the fitness of others to be monitored closely.
Post by: Holte132 on January 20, 2021, 09:42:25 AM
Quote from: GrauniadDean Smith has described the “very scary” scale of the Covid-19 outbreak that forced Aston Villa’s entire squad into isolation this month but says he is in favour of continuing the season.
Nine Villa players and five backroom staff members tested positive as the virus swept through the club, leading to illness and anxiety as well as the closure of the training ground, the postponement of two Premier League matches and the deployment of youth players to fulfil the FA Cup tie against Liverpool.
“It was very scary,” Smith said. “We produced total negative tests on New Year’s Eve and then played Manchester United. We got tested again on 3 January and there were nine positive tests. That raised an alarm straight away and we got tested the following day and then we got another five positive tests after that.
“It was a little bit worrying because nobody knows how and we also know then our bubble has been compromised. We don’t know how as we followed the protocols. It was a scary time because you didn’t really want to touch anything because you didn’t know how it was being transmitted.
“[It was] really frightening. Every time we got tested it seemed somebody else was getting it. A lot of the players and staff were asymptomatic but some symptoms crept up on people. I told one of the players that he’d had a positive test and he felt fine and said: ‘No chance, I’m in a good place.’ Two days later when I spoke to him he was lying in bed with aches and pains.
“How quickly it was getting transmitted was the biggest surprise. You do worry. But we have come through the other side of it now and I am thankful for the quick work of the doctor and the other medical staff who have helped us.”
The Premier League issued tighter restrictions to all clubs last week in an effort to prevent further outbreaks, a move welcomed by Smith. “The stronger protocols needed to come in, definitely, I think that has been proven. The new variant transmits a lot quicker and we saw that for ourselves first hand.”
Smith supports pressing on with the season rather than suspending it. “We knew there were going to be changes to fixtures and we were going into uncharted territory. We knew it was going to be unknown and we would have to react to changes.
“We are in a very privileged position in that we are allowed to continue. I have had to bear 10 days of self-isolation and it was not a problem, knowing there are a lot of people who have not been out of their house since last March. We understand the position we are in. It is a football country and people want to see their teams playing games. If we can keep that show on the road, I think we should do.”
Villa return to action on Wednesday at Manchester City, the first of four matches in 10 days as they work through their fixture backlog. Smith says only one of the players who tested positive this month is definitely unavailable for the match, with the fitness of others to be monitored closely.
Classy bloke
Post by: Drummond on January 20, 2021, 09:49:32 AM
Post by: Ian. on January 20, 2021, 09:55:41 AM
Post by: OCD on January 20, 2021, 10:48:19 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2021, 11:11:33 AM
Post by: Dazvillain on January 20, 2021, 11:24:44 AM
I wonder who’s not available tonight from the positive result.Other than trez, I didn’t see Hause or Davies in the clubs training pics or videos contrary to reports Above
Post by: The Edge on January 20, 2021, 11:30:37 AM
What a great way of addressing the Covid outbreak by Dean Smith. Honest and open and basically removing any chance of players competing against Man City with pre determined excuses playing on their minds.Pics today showing them back in training.
Missing from the pics - Luiz, Targett and El Ghaz by the looks of things.
In case it gets lost in man city pre match this is the very latest by the Divine one and current Manager of the month Dean Smith:
"Obviously I’ve got some players who’ve contracted Coronavirus and I’ve got to check whether they’re fully fit or not. I don’t think we’ll be hamstrung by it at all. We’ll have a few players who’ve been affected by it but we’ve also got a lot of players who've had a so-called winter break. “Some of our players needed the rest, players like Jack Grealish and John McGinn who’ve been regularly away on international duty. Hopefully it’ll do them the world of good and we can come back fresh and firing.
Post by: Gerrin on January 20, 2021, 11:31:43 AM
I wonder who’s not available tonight from the positive result.Other than trez, I didn’t see Hause or Davies in the clubs training pics or videos contrary to reports Above
Davies was on them.
Post by: algy on January 20, 2021, 11:52:25 AM
Yeah - from that and his interview, I think Dean Smith's handled it all very well. No drama, no moaning. Compared with the way Tottinghams have been carrying on, it's chalk & cheese. Similar in the transfer market - no messing about, just get on with the task at hand. Wonderful mentality from the club overall, and another reason I'm positive about our future at the moment.What a great way of addressing the Covid outbreak by Dean Smith. Honest and open and basically removing any chance of players competing against Man City with pre determined excuses playing on their minds.Pics today showing them back in training.
Missing from the pics - Luiz, Targett and El Ghaz by the looks of things.
In case it gets lost in man city pre match this is the very latest by the Divine one and current Manager of the month Dean Smith:
"Obviously I’ve got some players who’ve contracted Coronavirus and I’ve got to check whether they’re fully fit or not. I don’t think we’ll be hamstrung by it at all. We’ll have a few players who’ve been affected by it but we’ve also got a lot of players who've had a so-called winter break. “Some of our players needed the rest, players like Jack Grealish and John McGinn who’ve been regularly away on international duty. Hopefully it’ll do them the world of good and we can come back fresh and firing.
Post by: London Villan on January 20, 2021, 01:24:19 PM
Post by: Risso on January 20, 2021, 01:25:51 PM
Is barkley fit?
He was front and centre in all of the training photos, so hopefully.
Post by: Ad@m on January 23, 2021, 09:49:28 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 23, 2021, 09:56:37 PM
Judging by how Jack looked tonight, I wonder if he was one of our covid cases. He just doesn't look well.
Smith said neither Grealish nor McGinn had it.
Post by: Ad@m on January 23, 2021, 09:57:23 PM
Judging by how Jack looked tonight, I wonder if he was one of our covid cases. He just doesn't look well.
Smith said neither Grealish nor McGinn had it.
On the piss last night then!
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 04, 2021, 08:25:21 PM
Villa have donated the Holte Suite to be used as a hub for the NHS to roll out 2,000 vaccinations per day as Birmingham and the UK look to combat Covid.
Purslow said:
"Obviously with no fans in the stadium we can carry on. It's rather an incredible thought as I look at an empty Holte End knowing that behind there is such a wonderful facility doing good that will carrying on doing that good work when there's a football match is happening on Saturday morning."
In total, 700 patients were jabbed on the first day of the vaccination roll-out at Villa Park with the centre opening from 8am until 8pm seven days a week from hereon in
Well Played Villa do the area and country proud
Maybe some of us here will be getting vaccine at this centre if that's your area?
Post by: Aldridge Villa on February 15, 2021, 08:53:56 PM
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2021, 12:55:36 PM
Well, tomorrow is the first anniversary of our last match at VP with fans present. If you’d told me then we’d still be in the thick of one year later think I’d have cried. Now if I was to be told we’ll be back en masse in the autumn think I’d bite your hand off ! Fingers crossed.
And what a shit night it was as well. Pissing it down, dismal performance on the pitch, and sat in traffic for ages after trying to escape the shit hole that is Leicester city centre.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on February 16, 2021, 01:40:20 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 16, 2021, 02:19:08 PM
Post by: eamonn on February 16, 2021, 02:20:32 PM
Risso, nope not one of our better nights. 16/2/20 was however our last home match with fans, Engels last minute slip v Spurs....
Was that the last time he played for us?
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 16, 2021, 02:56:57 PM
Risso, nope not one of our better nights. 16/2/20 was however our last home match with fans, Engels last minute slip v Spurs....
Was that the last time he played for us?
He played in the cup final, as it was his header which the City keeper tipped onto the post in the last minute.
Can't remember if he played away at Leicester, or post-lockdown 1?
Post by: eamonn on February 16, 2021, 11:00:45 PM
Post by: OCD on February 17, 2021, 11:47:58 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2021, 12:41:41 PM
Until a player tells him he is exhausted Smiffy ain't gonna do that.or keels over
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 17, 2021, 01:30:16 PM
Risso, nope not one of our better nights. 16/2/20 was however our last home match with fans, Engels last minute slip v Spurs....
Was that the last time he played for us?
He played in the cup final, as it was his header which the City keeper tipped onto the post in the last minute.
Can't remember if he played away at Leicester, or post-lockdown 1?
Hasn't played a minute since that Leicester game.
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 18, 2021, 01:29:32 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 20, 2021, 08:57:03 AM
Post by: Villan82 on February 21, 2021, 02:31:17 PM
Post by: placeforparks on February 22, 2021, 04:03:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 22, 2021, 04:23:45 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 22, 2021, 06:08:50 PM
The last game I attended in person was the cup final, similar to a lot of folks I imagine. This is the longest I've gone without attending a match in 30 years. Will be a lot longer for others of an older vintage I am sure.
I'd say it will be an absence of just under 12 months for them as well.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 22, 2021, 06:15:49 PM
Yes Sunday May 23 my birthday and I could be at Villa Park ;D
I assume you'll be looking for a suitable beer garden in B6 to celebrate. :)
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 22, 2021, 08:24:23 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 23, 2021, 08:35:15 PM
Much more likely to find a curry garden in B6 or have a picnic in Aston park.Yes Sunday May 23 my birthday and I could be at Villa Park ;D
I assume you'll be looking for a suitable beer garden in B6 to celebrate. :)
Post by: Risso on March 14, 2021, 10:41:16 PM
Yes Sunday May 23 my birthday and I could be at Villa Park ;D
Same as my good lady. I'll get her a jigsaw or something to keep her occupied while I'm at the match. :)
Post by: Hillbilly on March 14, 2021, 10:57:36 PM
What other woodworking tools does she have?Yes Sunday May 23 my birthday and I could be at Villa Park ;D
Same as my good lady. I'll get her a jigsaw or something to keep her occupied while I'm at the match. :)
Post by: sid1964 on March 18, 2021, 09:34:44 AM
Happy days for me if true as by the end of May I will have had both
Looks like the crowd next season will be over 50 or under 16
Post by: Ad@m on March 18, 2021, 10:28:04 AM
I have read on another football site, that to be allowed to buy a season ticket or match day ticket for next season, you will have to have received both jabs
Happy days for me if true as by the end of May I will have had both
Looks like the crowd next season will be over 50 or under 16
I'd be astounded if clubs adopt that rule - they're not going to turn down sales revenue after the last 12 months, especially as the government expect that there will be no legal curbs on them opening up fully from the middle of June.
Post by: CT on March 18, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
I have read on another football site, that to be allowed to buy a season ticket or match day ticket for next season, you will have to have received both jabs
Happy days for me if true as by the end of May I will have had both
Looks like the crowd next season will be over 50 or under 16
I'd be astounded if clubs adopt that rule - they're not going to turn down sales revenue after the last 12 months, especially as the government expect that there will be no legal curbs on them opening up fully from the middle of June.
If Villa do that, I’d be fucking fuming as my lad couldn’t go as at 16, he can’t have the vaccine. All the parents who take kids would be split up, and in my case, I wouldn’t go either.
On saying that, I’ve now heard a few companies who WILL be doing this, so maybe it’s going to happen.
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 18, 2021, 06:56:42 PM
Yes Sunday May 23 my birthday and I could be at Villa Park ;D
mine as well can celebrate together in the Holte or even the Social
Post by: sid1964 on March 19, 2021, 10:22:41 AM
Post by: CT on March 19, 2021, 03:24:43 PM
The guy in the ticket office said it wasn’t the first email he’d received like this and was happy to put my mind at rest. Confirmed, 100%.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 17, 2021, 09:28:24 AM
As of yet no news if it's Villa or Newcastle players but have to bear in mind that covid can still be impacting things at Villa and football.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 20, 2021, 12:03:40 AM
So that could well be the Chelsea and Everton matches in September without 4 key players.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 21, 2021, 12:35:50 AM
Premier League managers want more players to get vaccinated amid worries of possible disruption to season
Premier League managers have united in publicly calling for more of their players to get vaccinated against Covid amid rising concerns about further disruption to the professional game and the potential impact of “conspiracy theories” on young footballers.
Steve Bruce, the Newcastle United manager, cited “conspiracy theories” as a reason why players are reluctant to step forward and revealed that “a lot” of his squad have not been vaccinated.
Chelsea’s Christian Pulisic, who is fully vaccinated, has become the latest top-flight player to be ruled out of action after testing positive, while Arsenal’s Alexandre Lacazette is also unavailable this weekend as he struggles with symptoms of the virus.
Bruce, meanwhile, warned that players could be turned away from the vaccine by online conspiracy theories and said Premier League managers were given strong advice by leading medical professionals at a recent meeting.
“We have got a lot of players who haven’t had the jab,” Bruce said. “It’s their prerogative but you can only go by the advice that all the Premier League managers were given a week or so ago.
“Half of the meeting surrounded Covid and how vital it is that people are jabbed, and the stats to go with that. We’ve had two or three players really sick with Covid here and Karl Darlow spent the best part of a week in hospital with it, so we’ve seen the severity of it first hand. But there are a lot of conspiracy theories out there.”
Last week, the latest figures showed that almost 30 per cent of 18 to 29-year-olds have not received a first dose of the Covid vaccine in England.
Telegraph Sport revealed earlier this month that the captains of the 20 Premier League clubs were told by deputy chief medical officer Professor Jonathan Van Tam that they could not “outrun” Covid-19 and were advised to get fully vaccinated as soon as possible.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 08:14:19 AM
If you can go now without a vaccine passport why bloody wait two months to do it? You should have done it at the start
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 21, 2021, 08:36:10 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 09:45:58 AM
If you think I'll be in any even tiny way pandering to anti-vaxxers, you're much mistaken. Wanting it but not being able to have it must suck, but I'm guessing these are people who have to deal with life-threatening possibilities on a daily basis from seemingly benign stuff that passes the rest of us by. I'd like to think that there'll be equal provision made for those that can show they're vaxxed and those that can show they can't be.
So what about those that cant take the vaccine for health reasons. If you have no sympathy for them you really are selfish and heartless.
Some people cant take it because of underlying health issues. That doesnt make they an 'antivaxxer' a brainwashed term by the media
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 21, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
maybe read his last sentence again.If you think I'll be in any even tiny way pandering to anti-vaxxers, you're much mistaken. Wanting it but not being able to have it must suck, but I'm guessing these are people who have to deal with life-threatening possibilities on a daily basis from seemingly benign stuff that passes the rest of us by. I'd like to think that there'll be equal provision made for those that can show they're vaxxed and those that can show they can't be.
So what about those that cant take the vaccine for health reasons. If you have no sympathy for them you really are selfish and heartless.
Some people cant take it because of underlying health issues. That doesnt make they an 'antivaxxer' a brainwashed term by the media
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 21, 2021, 09:54:36 AM
maybe read his last sentence again.If you think I'll be in any even tiny way pandering to anti-vaxxers, you're much mistaken. Wanting it but not being able to have it must suck, but I'm guessing these are people who have to deal with life-threatening possibilities on a daily basis from seemingly benign stuff that passes the rest of us by. I'd like to think that there'll be equal provision made for those that can show they're vaxxed and those that can show they can't be.
So what about those that cant take the vaccine for health reasons. If you have no sympathy for them you really are selfish and heartless.
Some people cant take it because of underlying health issues. That doesnt make they an 'antivaxxer' a brainwashed term by the media
Not even necessarily the last one, just anything after the first one would be fine.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 10:09:28 AM
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
Post by: Rigadon on August 21, 2021, 10:26:48 AM
What about players who refuse to be vaccinated? Sounds like a good number of them have decided not bother, which astounds me.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 12:16:30 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/20/steve-bruce-admits-a-lot-of-newcastle-players-have-not-been-vaccinated-covid
What about players who refuse to be vaccinated? Sounds like a good number of them have decided not bother, which astounds me.
I just think yoir just got to let people get on with it. If people dont want it and something happens to them its on them.
I just dont like the divide its creating. It should not be like this
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 21, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 04:07:50 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
Post by: BoVillan esq on August 21, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on August 21, 2021, 05:04:00 PM
Absolute bollocks.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
Post by: KRS on August 21, 2021, 05:07:17 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 05:14:50 PM
Absolute bollocks.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
Well thought post and argument. Well done 👏
Post by: Ger Regan on August 21, 2021, 05:24:37 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 05:51:54 PM
It's been explained elsewhere how vaccines reduce the transmission of the virus and have no interest in repeating the debate here. I have also little patience for the "discrimination" argument regarding those selfish enough to choose not to get the vaccine (rather than those who can't). So, yeah, absolute bollocks.
So do you stop talking to people that havent had vaccine can i ask?
Like i have said before it doesnt bother me if they choose not to get it wont have any impact on your life as makes it no more likely you will die as you still catch ut from anyone. Its their lives at risk at end of the day. So let them be
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on August 21, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on August 21, 2021, 05:59:29 PM
Not sure what the relevance of your question is if i'm honest.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 06:03:24 PM
There is a societal responsibility for as many people as possible to get the vaccine, as with measels. If they were only harming themselves then i'd have no problem with it, but it absolutely does impact others, so your reasoning is fundamentally flawed.
Not sure what the relevance of your question is if i'm honest.
Differnece is measels vaccine has been around foe a long time. This was on hasnt so i understand why some may be scared. Not interested in the conspiracy theory stuff as who knows what the hells true or bollocks.
Im asking generally a question it doesnt need to relevent to the discussion as i have known a few people that have stopped speaking to people who havent had vaccine which i think is very extreme!
Post by: Ger Regan on August 21, 2021, 06:08:15 PM
Anyway, there's a separate thread in OT for this, so i'm bowing out now.
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 21, 2021, 06:13:55 PM
Been double jabbed now for a few weeks but haven't got around to putting that status on my phone yet given it's not supposed to come into effect until October.
Also interested how the general matchday experience was for people who went today in the first big home match crowd in the covid era. Am going to the Brentford match so will be a strange feeling.
Just got to appreciate it while we can as winter is still a big unknown. Hard to see capacity crowds continuing to be allowed if daily cases and deaths really rocket from November onwards as is probably inevitable for many reasons.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 06:16:43 PM
To move the debate in another direction....anyone have a covid spot check today at any stage?
Been double jabbed now for a few weeks but haven't got around to putting that status on my phone yet given it's not supposed to come into effect until October.
Also interested how the general matchday experience was for people who went today in the first big home match crowd in the covid era. Am going to the Brentford match so will be a strange feeling.
Just got to appreciate it while we can as winter is still a big unknown. Hard to see capacity crowds continuing to be allowed if daily cases and deaths really rocket from November onwards as is probably inevitable for many reasons.
Didnt see many people in masks to be honest just felt like a normal game pre pandemic! Could have been loads pf non vaccinated people today and would have never known.
Just enjoy it, its been a while and just escape covid 19 for 90 minutes 😁
Post by: Ad@m on August 21, 2021, 07:52:20 PM
Almost zero mask adherence, to the point where I was getting funny looks for wearing one. Not sure whether it's covid-related but the service was even slower than before meaning that the queues at all the kiosks were horrific, to the point that they blocked the concourse under the Holte and made it feel pretty unsafe.
Up at the seats was ok but the air was still today so even there if you were stood/sat next to someone with covid for two hours I reckon there'd be a good chance of catching it.
I will almost certainly be fine as I'm double-jabbed, relatively young and have no health issues, but if I had any underlying health conditions I'd have felt seriously uncomfortable there.
Not sure there's much more the club could do because this seems to be the way things are going with covid but the one way they could help is to sort the queues at the bars out, something they've needed to do for years before covid.
Post by: London Villan on August 21, 2021, 09:01:46 PM
Post by: KRS on August 21, 2021, 09:13:15 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 21, 2021, 09:23:33 PM
We’ll soon find out in a few weeks if the return of fans to stadiums has any impact on Covid cases, hospitalisation and deaths. It pretty much feels like it’s a gamble and pot luck if you end up catching it at a game now given the lack of precautions being taken, and I’d fully understand anyone not going if they don’t feel safe or want to take the risk. The only thing I can take as a positive is the relatively high percentage of adults that have been doubled jabbed so far.
Big events have been for a while now. Lets not forget as well gyms have been open for a hell of a long time now and thats got to be one of the most contagious places you ca go. If anything going games week in week out will build your immune system. Also travel abroad this has been going for what 6-8 weeks now?
If rates don't go up in next few weeks then i do think worse is over with. Obviously winter brings challengs but we know this people always tend to get sick during that period
Post by: Ad@m on August 21, 2021, 09:45:14 PM
We’ll soon find out in a few weeks if the return of fans to stadiums has any impact on Covid cases, hospitalisation and deaths. It pretty much feels like it’s a gamble and pot luck if you end up catching it at a game now given the lack of precautions being taken, and I’d fully understand anyone not going if they don’t feel safe or want to take the risk. The only thing I can take as a positive is the relatively high percentage of adults that have been doubled jabbed so far.
Big events have been for a while now. Lets not forget as well gyms have been open for a hell of a long time now and thats got to be one of the most contagious places you ca go. If anything going games week in week out will build your immune system. Also travel abroad this has been going for what 6-8 weeks now?
If rates don't go up in next few weeks then i do think worse is over with. Obviously winter brings challengs but we know this people always tend to get sick during that period
Only if you catch covid.
I think it's fair to say you're an advocate of herd immunity!!
Post by: KRS on August 21, 2021, 10:06:58 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 21, 2021, 11:21:41 PM
I got the train there and back on the Cross City line, and was surprised at the lack of mask wearers, particularly as a lot of people still haven't been fully vaccinated (I'm not talking about the anti-vax idiots here!). On the way there, I was one of the
few in my carriage wearing one: there were women and children there, as well as groups of people of all ages. I'd half expected a misguided sense of machismo with some of the men, but not with the families and older passengers who should have had more courtesy and sense.
On arrival at the ground, I went through the turnstile into the Lower Holte concourse which was rammed. I was the only person there with a mask on, apart from the stewards and police officers. Needless to say, I hurried back to my seat after a quick visit to the toilet at half time, well away from Covid Central. I'd been desperate for a cuppa too!
Apparently the club are spot-checking vaccine passports and proof of negative lateral flow test results from the Brentford game next week onwards, with a view of the Government bringing in the mandatory Vaccine Passport entry to the ground in October (presumably that has to be debated in Parliament first). I sincerely hope so! I'm double jabbed and no underlying conditions, but I wouldn't want to pick up the virus to potentially pass onto the more vulnerable people I know.
Edit: Despite this rant, it was great to be back at the Home of Football after so long, and to see the familiar faces. Honest! ;)
Post by: Demitri_C on August 22, 2021, 09:30:26 AM
I wouldnt say im a fan of herd immunity ad but i do think if you have caught covid and recovered from it should give you additional protection if you get it again in theory of how the body copes with viruses
I think alot of people may hav been lucky and had covid without knowjng without symptoms. The news tests coming out tell you if you had it within a certain period. I caught covid last march 2020 when it was first coming outWe’ll soon find out in a few weeks if the return of fans to stadiums has any impact on Covid cases, hospitalisation and deaths. It pretty much feels like it’s a gamble and pot luck if you end up catching it at a game now given the lack of precautions being taken, and I’d fully understand anyone not going if they don’t feel safe or want to take the risk. The only thing I can take as a positive is the relatively high percentage of adults that have been doubled jabbed so far.
Big events have been for a while now. Lets not forget as well gyms have been open for a hell of a long time now and thats got to be one of the most contagious places you ca go. If anything going games week in week out will build your immune system. Also travel abroad this has been going for what 6-8 weeks now?
If rates don't go up in next few weeks then i do think worse is over with. Obviously winter brings challengs but we know this people always tend to get sick during that period
Only if you catch covid.
I think it's fair to say you're an advocate of herd immunity!!
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2021, 12:16:48 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
If the club stop people coming in with guns and knives, it isn't "discrimination", it is protecting other fans. Just as fans should be protected from selfish twats who refuse to get vaccinated and put others at risk.
The Premier League should suspend, without pay, any player or club staff member that refuses to get the jab and ban twats who haven't been vaccinated from attending as spectators. With the exception of those who are underage and haven't been offered the jab and people with a legitimate medical reason, of course.
Post by: WarszaVillan on August 23, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
If the club stop people coming in with guns and knives, it isn't "discrimination", it is protecting other fans. Just as fans should be protected from selfish twats who refuse to get vaccinated and put others at risk.
The Premier League should suspend, without pay, any player or club staff member that refuses to get vaccinated and ban twats who haven't been vaccinated from attending. Bar those who are underage and haven't been offered the jab and those with a legitimate medical reason, of course.
The problem with this is that it then gives the impression that those who are vaccinated can act as they wish and there is no problem anymore. Unfortunately the fact is that although you are less likely to be infected if vaccinated, you are just as likely to pass it on Cases are rising very quickly in some countries that have the highest level of vaccination and the efficacy of vaccinations seems to be decreasing. This time last summer there was a handful of daily deaths in the UK, now it averages around 100 and we are still in the summer when schools are closed, people are outside, etc. Anyone who is clinically vulnerable has to take a huge risk just to go to Villa Park. I am fully supportive of vaccinations and am vaxed myself, but just banning non-vaxed people from events won't solve the problem although it may make us feel better.
Post by: Richard E on August 23, 2021, 12:28:31 PM
Post by: Skerra on August 23, 2021, 12:37:53 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2021, 12:39:44 PM
I don't think the Premier League has the power to suspend people without pay, especially club staff.
I meant staff as in coaches, physios, etc. Imagine they would come under the Premier League's remit. If they give advance notice so that people have time to get jabbed, I can't see how anyone could object.
Post by: placeforparks on August 23, 2021, 12:59:53 PM
the whole not being able to have a beer in the stand doesn't help either, that legislation should be reviewed given the times we are in, and the fact that the matchday experience is very different from nearly 40 years ago when it was brought in.
Post by: artvandelay on August 23, 2021, 01:04:57 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
You're right it doesn't 'stop' passing it on, but only in the same way at a condom or the pill don't 'stop' pregnancy, yet we'd all agree contraception is key to avoiding an unwanted pregnancy! It reduces the chances of transmission massively, and I'd be delighted if we had a vaccine mandate in the stadium, with provision for anyone medically unable to take it with a signed certificate from a doctor stating as much.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 23, 2021, 01:13:02 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 01:57:27 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
If the club stop people coming in with guns and knives, it isn't "discrimination", it is protecting other fans. Just as fans should be protected from selfish twats who refuse to get vaccinated and put others at risk.
The Premier League should suspend, without pay, any player or club staff member that refuses to get the jab and ban twats who haven't been vaccinated from attending as spectators. With the exception of those who are underage and haven't been offered the jab and people with a legitimate medical reason, of course.
It makes no difference to your safety whether they been vaccinated or not. You can still get it from someone vaccinated so if your that worried you shouldnt go to games period.
And your example about guns and knives is ridiculous im sorey to say
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 01:59:09 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2021, 02:01:16 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
If the club stop people coming in with guns and knives, it isn't "discrimination", it is protecting other fans. Just as fans should be protected from selfish twats who refuse to get vaccinated and put others at risk.
The Premier League should suspend, without pay, any player or club staff member that refuses to get the jab and ban twats who haven't been vaccinated from attending as spectators. With the exception of those who are underage and haven't been offered the jab and people with a legitimate medical reason, of course.
It makes no difference to your safety whether they been vaccinated or not. You can still get it from someone vaccinated so if your that worried you shouldnt go to games period.
And your example about guns and knives is ridiculous im sorey to say
It makes a huge difference. Vaccinated people are far less likely to spread the disease.
The vast majority of your posting history is ridiculous I'm "sorey" to say.
You've yet to come out with a valid reason why an anti-vaxx twat should be allowed in other than your nonsensical "discrimination" claim.
Post by: Richard E on August 23, 2021, 02:11:41 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 02:19:29 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
If the club stop people coming in with guns and knives, it isn't "discrimination", it is protecting other fans. Just as fans should be protected from selfish twats who refuse to get vaccinated and put others at risk.
The Premier League should suspend, without pay, any player or club staff member that refuses to get the jab and ban twats who haven't been vaccinated from attending as spectators. With the exception of those who are underage and haven't been offered the jab and people with a legitimate medical reason, of course.
It makes no difference to your safety whether they been vaccinated or not. You can still get it from someone vaccinated so if your that worried you shouldnt go to games period.
And your example about guns and knives is ridiculous im sorey to say
It makes a huge difference. Vaccinated people are far less likely to spread the disease.
The vast majority of your posting history is ridiculous I'm "sorey" to say.
You've yet to come out with a valid reason why an anti-vaxx twat should be allowed in other than your nonsensical "discrimination" claim.
Not as ridiculous as comparing an anti vaxxer to someone that comes in with a knife or gun.
Can you produce scientific evidence to support your claim that your more likely to catch it off a anti vaxxer as opposed to someone who has been vaccinated?
Losing the debate clearly as you have to throw lame insults in
Post by: Ger Regan on August 23, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
Quote
A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus.
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2021, 02:25:50 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2021, 02:32:47 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
If the club stop people coming in with guns and knives, it isn't "discrimination", it is protecting other fans. Just as fans should be protected from selfish twats who refuse to get vaccinated and put others at risk.
The Premier League should suspend, without pay, any player or club staff member that refuses to get the jab and ban twats who haven't been vaccinated from attending as spectators. With the exception of those who are underage and haven't been offered the jab and people with a legitimate medical reason, of course.
It makes no difference to your safety whether they been vaccinated or not. You can still get it from someone vaccinated so if your that worried you shouldnt go to games period.
And your example about guns and knives is ridiculous im sorey to say
It makes a huge difference. Vaccinated people are far less likely to spread the disease.
The vast majority of your posting history is ridiculous I'm "sorey" to say.
You've yet to come out with a valid reason why an anti-vaxx twat should be allowed in other than your nonsensical "discrimination" claim.
Not as ridiculous as comparing an anti vaxxer to someone that comes in with a knife or gun.
Can you produce scientific evidence to support your claim that your more likely to catch it off a anti vaxxer as opposed to someone who has been vaccinated?
Losing the debate clearly as you have to throw lame insults in
I was responding in kind. There is no "debate". Anti-vaxxers are idiots. It's like a "debate" with a Flat Earther.
You still haven't provided a single reason why the club shouldn't prevent dangerous idiots getting tickets.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 02:38:28 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
It lowers but doesnt stop thats my point though 👍
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 23, 2021, 02:40:15 PM
jesusYou are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
It lowers but doesnt stop thats my point though 👍
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 02:41:01 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
I'm well aware, thank you. I'm sure I'd probably be fine with my seemingly unbeatable immune system allied to my double jab. Probably very much unlike someone that couldn't have the jab on medical grounds. I was disagreeing with your opinion that we football supporters should become involved in mass protests about it.
Your welcome 😉
So we agree it wont make a difference about catching covid whether you been vaccinated or not.
I for one dont support discrimination. We are a democratic country after all!
If the club stop people coming in with guns and knives, it isn't "discrimination", it is protecting other fans. Just as fans should be protected from selfish twats who refuse to get vaccinated and put others at risk.
The Premier League should suspend, without pay, any player or club staff member that refuses to get the jab and ban twats who haven't been vaccinated from attending as spectators. With the exception of those who are underage and haven't been offered the jab and people with a legitimate medical reason, of course.
It makes no difference to your safety whether they been vaccinated or not. You can still get it from someone vaccinated so if your that worried you shouldnt go to games period.
And your example about guns and knives is ridiculous im sorey to say
It makes a huge difference. Vaccinated people are far less likely to spread the disease.
The vast majority of your posting history is ridiculous I'm "sorey" to say.
You've yet to come out with a valid reason why an anti-vaxx twat should be allowed in other than your nonsensical "discrimination" claim.
Not as ridiculous as comparing an anti vaxxer to someone that comes in with a knife or gun.
Can you produce scientific evidence to support your claim that your more likely to catch it off a anti vaxxer as opposed to someone who has been vaccinated?
Losing the debate clearly as you have to throw lame insults in
I was responding in kind. There is no "debate". Anti-vaxxers are idiots. It's like a "debate" with a Flat Earther.
You still haven't provided a single reason why the club shouldn't prevent dangerous idiots getting tickets.
So in other words you can't as your wrong. End of discussion with you . You call people twats idiots name calling etc adds nothing to this discussion. People might ca you a idiot for your views.
If they dont want to get the vaccine its on them at the end of the day.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 02:41:37 PM
jesusYou are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
It lowers but doesnt stop thats my point though 👍
Christ
Post by: Ad@m on August 23, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
It lowers but doesnt stop thats my point though 👍
How is this so hard for you to understand?
Just because something doesn't eliminate risk completely, doesn't mean you should give up.
Speed limits don't stop people speeding.
Food preparation standards don't stop people getting food poisoning.
Gun laws don't stop people being shot.
That doesn't mean they don't have any effect though.
If fans attending VP are significantly safer when everyone's vaccinated (which they absolutely would be) then I'm all for the Villa banning anti-vaxxer morons.
Post by: WarszaVillan on August 23, 2021, 02:44:52 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
This study was carried in Jan/feb before delta became dominant, which is the problem. Fully vaccinated people are less likely to catch the virus, but if they do then it seems they have the same viral load to pass it on, although exactly what the situation is remains unclear. Also vaccines seem to be losing efficacy (although massively helping still against severe illness still) - 'A study in Israel 'showed the Pfizer vaccine’s efficacy against infection falling to 39 per cent, and to as low as 16 per cent for people who had their second shots in January.' It's all part of the craziness of letting the virus spread in a partially vaccinated population.
https://www.ft.com/content/23cdbf8c-b5ef-4596-bb46-f510606ab556
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 02:49:44 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
It lowers but doesnt stop thats my point though 👍
How is this so hard for you to understand?
Just because something doesn't eliminate risk completely, doesn't mean you should give up.
Speed limits don't stop people speeding.
Food preparation standards don't stop people getting food poisoning.
Gun laws don't stop people being shot.
That doesn't mean they don't have any effect though.
If fans attending VP are significantly safer when everyone's vaccinated (which they absolutely would be) then I'm all for the Villa banning anti-vaxxer morons.
How hard is it for you to understand, you me jeffrey whoever can still transmit the disease just like a un vaccinated person. It might be slightly lower BUT can still be passed on. So if your that worried you shouldnt go to games where there is 42k people as that alone is the greater risk.
And lets just say they do covid passports and all non vaccinated anti vaxxers whatever you want to label them. you go villa park and still get covid from someone there who you going to blame then?
Until there is more evidence/science then we can take it from there. They should have implemented these rules before letting fans back if they wanted to go to this route.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
This study was carried in Jan/feb before delta became dominant, which is the problem. Fully vaccinated people are less likely to catch the virus, but if they do then it seems they have the same viral load to pass it on, although exactly what the situation is remains unclear. Also vaccines seem to be losing efficacy (although massively helping still against severe illness still) - 'A study in Israel 'showed the Pfizer vaccine’s efficacy against infection falling to 39 per cent, and to as low as 16 per cent for people who had their second shots in January.' It's all part of the craziness of letting the virus spread in a partially vaccinated population.
https://www.ft.com/content/23cdbf8c-b5ef-4596-bb46-f510606ab556
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074
Good read that thanks for sharing. Its still a fairely new virus we are still learning about it. Nothings for certain at this stage. When they have the science to prove that an unvaccinated person only can transmit the disease then ill be more.on board
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2021, 03:07:24 PM
If a company bars someone because they're Black, that's discrimination.
If a company bars someone because they're gay, that's discrimination.
There is no legislation whatsoever that forbids an organisation from denying access to their premises for being a twat.
There's no viable reason why an anti-vaxxer should be allowed to risk the life of someone who is unable to have the vaccine for health reasons. Potentially killing someone because you're scared of needles or an idiot on Twitter told you the government microchips vaccines is the height of selfish stupidity. Neither Villa, nor any other club, should be pandering to these scumbags.
Post by: Ad@m on August 23, 2021, 03:54:21 PM
How hard is it for you to understand, you me jeffrey whoever can still transmit the disease just like a un vaccinated person. It might be slightly lower BUT can still be passed on. So if your that worried you shouldnt go to games where there is 42k people as that alone is the greater risk.
And lets just say they do covid passports and all non vaccinated anti vaxxers whatever you want to label them. you go villa park and still get covid from someone there who you going to blame then?
Until there is more evidence/science then we can take it from there. They should have implemented these rules before letting fans back if they wanted to go to this route.
It's not about blame, it's about protecting Villa fans who can't have the vaccine.
There is plenty of evidence that says having the vaccine is safer than not having it. Someone deciding they know better than the global medical community makes them an anti-vaxxer moron. There is also plenty of evidence that says you're much less likely to catch covid if you're vaccinated and as a result much less likely to transmit covid.
We don't need more evidence to tell us this. It's already there.
Saying that immuno-suppressed Villa fans shouldn't go to Villa Park because we should pander to anti-vaxxer morons is offensive nonsense.
Post by: LeeB on August 23, 2021, 04:00:56 PM
I have not time for this anti-vax shite, none whatsoever, selfish morons.
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2021, 04:21:06 PM
It's basic really isn't it? If you're hit harder without the vaccine, you're more likely to be coughing and sneezing spreading your shit around, no?
I have not time for this anti-vax shite, none whatsoever, selfish morons.
I'm with you and cd. Everybody should just get the vaccine. If you don't, then it's no good crying about your civil liberties. In my mind it's no different to drink drivers being upset they're not able to drive home after 10 pints at the pub.
Post by: WarszaVillan on August 23, 2021, 04:40:38 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2021, 05:06:14 PM
Post by: amfy on August 23, 2021, 08:41:48 PM
By insisting that everyone who can have the vaccine does so before going to Villa Park, the club would be offering the most protection they can to those who cannot have the vaccine.
The people who cannot have the vaccine are the ones who should not be discriminated against. They actually have a protected characteristic under the Disability Discrimination Act and Sexual Discrimination Act (pregnant women) - therefore the club potentially could be considered to have broken discrimination laws by not doing all they could to protect them, and expecting them to ‘stay away if they are worried’.
People who have health vulnerabilities are entitled to be offered the most viable choice they can be given, to have risk the risk reduced as much as possible, because they don’t have the choice to take the vaccine. People who won’t take the vaccine have taken their choice, and if the club decide they can’t come in, then they will still have a choice - to take the vaccine or stay away.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 23, 2021, 09:29:41 PM
you are spouting anti vaccine nonsense. There is plenty evidence that is safer for everyone, if everyone that can has the vaccine but you choose to believe some other crap.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
This study was carried in Jan/feb before delta became dominant, which is the problem. Fully vaccinated people are less likely to catch the virus, but if they do then it seems they have the same viral load to pass it on, although exactly what the situation is remains unclear. Also vaccines seem to be losing efficacy (although massively helping still against severe illness still) - 'A study in Israel 'showed the Pfizer vaccine’s efficacy against infection falling to 39 per cent, and to as low as 16 per cent for people who had their second shots in January.' It's all part of the craziness of letting the virus spread in a partially vaccinated population.
https://www.ft.com/content/23cdbf8c-b5ef-4596-bb46-f510606ab556
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074
Good read that thanks for sharing. Its still a fairely new virus we are still learning about it. Nothings for certain at this stage. When they have the science to prove that an unvaccinated person only can transmit the disease then ill be more.on board
Post by: charlatan on August 23, 2021, 09:35:52 PM
You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 23, 2021, 09:39:58 PM
if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 09:48:26 PM
you are spouting anti vaccine nonsense. There is plenty evidence that is safer for everyone, if everyone that can has the vaccine but you choose to believe some other crap.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not sure about that mate. They havent said it significantly reduces transmission just that your better protected
Lots of studies have shown that transmission is lower in vaccinated people. Here's one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717
This study was carried in Jan/feb before delta became dominant, which is the problem. Fully vaccinated people are less likely to catch the virus, but if they do then it seems they have the same viral load to pass it on, although exactly what the situation is remains unclear. Also vaccines seem to be losing efficacy (although massively helping still against severe illness still) - 'A study in Israel 'showed the Pfizer vaccine’s efficacy against infection falling to 39 per cent, and to as low as 16 per cent for people who had their second shots in January.' It's all part of the craziness of letting the virus spread in a partially vaccinated population.
https://www.ft.com/content/23cdbf8c-b5ef-4596-bb46-f510606ab556
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074
Good read that thanks for sharing. Its still a fairely new virus we are still learning about it. Nothings for certain at this stage. When they have the science to prove that an unvaccinated person only can transmit the disease then ill be more.on board
Utter nonsense
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on August 23, 2021, 09:50:28 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 09:50:37 PM
if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
Can you show us the percentage of how much more that is then as you seem to know everything?
Post by: charlatan on August 23, 2021, 09:50:56 PM
Sure, but if you are vaccinated and you choose to go to the pub regularly then you also have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die, etc. than if you stay at home and watch telly instead.if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
People used to be criticised by some for socialising, but now it seems that getting vaccinated (as I have) is considered sufficient to have done your bit. I can see why vaccination is preferable to relative self-isolation from an economic pespective, but not from a moral one, so when I hear people calling other twats, etc. for not getting vaccinated I tend to assume they are either somewhat hypocritical or taking a very cautious approach to social engagement.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 09:52:00 PM
You're a twat!! Stop digging.
Ohhhh hard man talking behind his lil pc in his pjs. What a loser
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 23, 2021, 09:53:56 PM
You're a twat!! Stop digging.
Apologise and pack it in.
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 23, 2021, 09:54:17 PM
You're a twat!! Stop digging.
Ohhhh hard man talking behind his lil pc in his pjs. What a loser
And that goes for you as well.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 09:54:54 PM
Sure, but if you are vaccinated and you choose to go to the pub regularly then you also have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die, etc. than if you stay at home and watch telly instead.if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
People used to be criticised by some for socialising, but now it seems that getting vaccinated (as I have) is considered sufficient to have done your bit. I can see why vaccination is preferable to relative self-isolation from an economic pespective, but not from a moral one, so when I hear people calling other twats, etc. for not getting vaccinated I tend to assume they are either somewhat hypocritical or taking a very cautious approach to social engagement.
They wouldnt have the guts to say it to their faces. Its big talk behind a computer screen. If you wanna criticse them thats fine. But twats scumbags etc way over the top
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on August 23, 2021, 09:55:28 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 23, 2021, 09:55:51 PM
You're a twat!! Stop digging.
Ohhhh hard man talking behind his lil pc in his pjs. What a loser
And that goes for you as well.
Your right i should not have bited to his post
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 23, 2021, 09:57:19 PM
You're a twat!! Stop digging.
Ohhhh hard man talking behind his lil pc in his pjs. What a loser
And that goes for you as well.
Your right i should not have bited to his post
Try looking above your post, then I make that two apologies if you don't want to be banned.
Post by: charlatan on August 23, 2021, 10:47:57 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 23, 2021, 11:06:25 PM
Though Premier League chiefs are lobbying to the government in an attempt to receive quarantine exemptions
We could see players miss up to 6 matches 2 in each of
September, October and November because of the international matches
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2021, 09:07:22 AM
Risso posted a link which you obviously ignored, there is plenty of scientific research out there, but people like you are not going to be persuaded because you have already made up your mind.if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
Can you show us the percentage of how much more that is then as you seem to know everything?
Post by: Drummond on August 24, 2021, 12:29:38 PM
I still wear a mask in shops, cafes and at work in the office (until I'm sat at my desk which has a window nearby and is 3m+ away from anyone else.
I am vaccinated, not because I particularly want to have a needle stuck in my arm but because I know it's the right thing to do. I'm getting closer to being in the higher risk group as I'm 50 (holy fuck) but the reality is, instead of fighting for my rights, I think about other people and society as a whole because I'm not a selfish twat.
The vaccine is safe and in my view, everyone eligible should get it. It is absolutely their choice, but if they don't they should recognise there are other people making choices too, and that might be the choice to not let an unvaccinated person near them. You can't have it all in this life and all that's being suggested is to make a small sacrifice for the greater good.
The studies are clear, the vaccination reduces the risk of catching the thing, reduces the effects if you do catch it, reduces the risk of transmission and therefore reduces the risk to everyone, not just the person receiving it. The side-effects are minimal and for a very limited period of time. So if you don't want to do it, then frankly you don't deserve the nice things in life either.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 24, 2021, 12:33:27 PM
Risso posted a link which you obviously ignored, there is plenty of scientific research out there, but people like you are not going to be persuaded because you have already made up your mind.if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
Can you show us the percentage of how much more that is then as you seem to know everything?
Speculation on your part as i did read it
Lets keep this on subject
Post by: Ad@m on August 24, 2021, 12:38:02 PM
Having the vaccine reduces the chances of transmission, so the more people have it, the lower the chances of transmission. It can’t be eliminated at present, but it is the responsible thing to reduce transmission as much as possible.
By insisting that everyone who can have the vaccine does so before going to Villa Park, the club would be offering the most protection they can to those who cannot have the vaccine.
The people who cannot have the vaccine are the ones who should not be discriminated against. They actually have a protected characteristic under the Disability Discrimination Act and Sexual Discrimination Act (pregnant women) - therefore the club potentially could be considered to have broken discrimination laws by not doing all they could to protect them, and expecting them to ‘stay away if they are worried’.
People who have health vulnerabilities are entitled to be offered the most viable choice they can be given, to have risk the risk reduced as much as possible, because they don’t have the choice to take the vaccine. People who won’t take the vaccine have taken their choice, and if the club decide they can’t come in, then they will still have a choice - to take the vaccine or stay away.
The other bit to mention on this is the staff. We've focused on the impact on fans who can't have the vaccine but for staff, especially those who work in indoor parts of the ground, be that the concourse areas or the hospitality sections, it would be a much more responsible stance for the Villa to take to require proof of vaccination for all fans attending (where possible) rather than expose those staff to lots of unvaccinated people. Especially as the Villa have a general obligation to ensure the health & safety of anyone employed at the ground.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2021, 12:48:52 PM
there are lots of genuine scientific based studies out there.Risso posted a link which you obviously ignored, there is plenty of scientific research out there, but people like you are not going to be persuaded because you have already made up your mind.if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
Can you show us the percentage of how much more that is then as you seem to know everything?
Speculation on your part as i did read it
Lets keep this on subject
None has come up with the idea that vaccines do not reduce transmission.
But of course you know better.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 24, 2021, 12:54:52 PM
there are lots of genuine scientific based studies out there.Risso posted a link which you obviously ignored, there is plenty of scientific research out there, but people like you are not going to be persuaded because you have already made up your mind.if you choose not to be vaccinated when you can, then you have a higher potential to transmit the disease to someone that could die or become seriously ill.You are aware you can catch it off someone vaccinated too right? So you could be sitting next to bob who hasnt been vaccinated or jill who has and you could get it off jill.But it significantly reduces transmission.
The point of the vaccine is to stop you from getting very sick. It doesnt unfortunately stop passing it on. So for me i have no issue with someone non vaccinated being allowed in.
So people who decide not to be vaccinated should not expect to endanger others.
Not attending social events (particularly indoor ones) significantly reduces transmission. Does that mean we shouldn't expect social events to be allowed? Why is this no longer seen as such a moral issue (where once it was) because of vaccination? Should we be castigating those who choose to drink in pubs to a similar degree as those who choose not to get vaccinated? It seems the moral high ground has shifted from self-isolation to vaccination, but I'm not entirely clear why.
Can you show us the percentage of how much more that is then as you seem to know everything?
Speculation on your part as i did read it
Lets keep this on subject
None has come up with the idea that vaccines do not reduce transmission.
But of course you know better.
again i ask you to keep this on discussion as its a football related thread.
There is a covid thread for this kind of talk your referring. If you want to discuss there fine. I dont wanna take this off subject like yesterday. And please stop with your condescending remarks like your last sentence.
Post by: German James on August 24, 2021, 12:56:13 PM
you me jeffrey whoever can still transmit the disease just like a un vaccinated person. It might be slightly lower BUT can still be passed on.Reason enough to get vaccinated!
you me jeffrey whoever can still transmit the disease just like a un vaccinated person. It might be slightly lower BUT can still be passed on.... to someone who, at the very least, is much less likely to become seriously ill, if they've been vaccinated. Reason enough to get the vaccination!
Post by: rjp on August 24, 2021, 01:00:52 PM
Quote
People are most infectious in the earlier stages of contracting HIV, and therefore more likely to pass it on. Ordinarily, the viral load of HIV-positive people not on treatment is counted in the tens of thousands, while the figure for one patient of McOwan’s who had recently contacted HIV was 520bn. “As very few people right now have recently caught HIV,” says McOwan. “There are far fewer of those very infectious people around.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/covid-19-crisis-raises-hopes-of-end-to-uk-transmission-of-hiv (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/covid-19-crisis-raises-hopes-of-end-to-uk-transmission-of-hiv)
Post by: Demitri_C on August 24, 2021, 01:09:06 PM
This article was written in May 2020 and it's about HIV but I found it really interesting. Particularly the part about viral loads in the very early stages of infection. I wonder if any of this bit applies to Covid and if the vaccine would make a difference.QuotePeople are most infectious in the earlier stages of contracting HIV, and therefore more likely to pass it on. Ordinarily, the viral load of HIV-positive people not on treatment is counted in the tens of thousands, while the figure for one patient of McOwan’s who had recently contacted HIV was 520bn. “As very few people right now have recently caught HIV,” says McOwan. “There are far fewer of those very infectious people around.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/covid-19-crisis-raises-hopes-of-end-to-uk-transmission-of-hiv (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/covid-19-crisis-raises-hopes-of-end-to-uk-transmission-of-hiv)
I think that ia a very interesting point personally
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 24, 2021, 01:13:35 PM
This article was written in May 2020 and it's about HIV but I found it really interesting. Particularly the part about viral loads in the very early stages of infection. I wonder if any of this bit applies to Covid and if the vaccine would make a difference.QuotePeople are most infectious in the earlier stages of contracting HIV, and therefore more likely to pass it on. Ordinarily, the viral load of HIV-positive people not on treatment is counted in the tens of thousands, while the figure for one patient of McOwan’s who had recently contacted HIV was 520bn. “As very few people right now have recently caught HIV,” says McOwan. “There are far fewer of those very infectious people around.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/covid-19-crisis-raises-hopes-of-end-to-uk-transmission-of-hiv (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/covid-19-crisis-raises-hopes-of-end-to-uk-transmission-of-hiv)
I remember reading that at the time. 520bn! Shudder.
Post by: ozzjim on August 24, 2021, 01:30:41 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2021, 01:50:08 PM
I still think masks should be mandatory for any indoor spaces where distancing is not possible. I also think all people allowed into a football match should have to be vaccinated. It isn't a moral high ground issue, it is a public health one. My other half has a rare long term illness so vaccines are about half as effective on her so she masks up and is careful where she goes. She won't go to large indoor gatherings etc, and has not been on a plane etc this summer, but hopes to in future. The research suggests that the vaccine makes you less likely to catch it or pass it on. We should all be doing what we can to safely protect other people where possible.a good illustration of why the club should do the right thing.
Post by: LukeJames on August 24, 2021, 06:21:41 PM
Post by: Dave P on August 24, 2021, 06:26:09 PM
No Premier League players to be released for International games in Red listed countries. I think this will affect a few of ours.
Martinez, Buendia and Luiz I think. Not sure about AFCON
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 24, 2021, 07:10:13 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 25, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58322829
Right decision in my opinion
At some point the 10 day isolation will have to end as its causing all kinds of chaos
Post by: Somniloquism on August 25, 2021, 10:19:51 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58322829
Right decision in my opinion
At some point the 10 day isolation will have to end as its causing all kinds of chaos
So not a fan of vaccines, but also not a fan of trying to stop worse infections from getting in from countries out of control. If a 10 day isolation was in place earlier for India, Delta might have been controlled better for example.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 25, 2021, 11:14:28 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58322829
Right decision in my opinion
At some point the 10 day isolation will have to end as its causing all kinds of chaos
So not a fan of vaccines, but also not a fan of trying to stop worse infections from getting in from countries out of control. If a 10 day isolation was in place earlier for India, Delta might have been controlled better for example.
Ok you are aware i have had the vaccine?? So can we just put this nonsense to bed. Having a different opinion of someone who hasnt been vaccinated to you i dont see what the problem is? I try look at all logically from both sides and i am not in favour of penalising non vaccinated. Its on them at the end of the day
As for the 10 day quarantine why did we all take the vaccines then if we have to isolate for 10 days? You dont think its causing chaos? People in important jobs police, doctors, nurses etc who have been vaccinated have to have a further 10 days off in a red country?
If we are so worried about variants we shouldnt have opened up travel in my view. Its causing massive issues and more fear among people.
Post by: Drummond on August 25, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58322829
Right decision in my opinion
At some point the 10 day isolation will have to end as its causing all kinds of chaos
So not a fan of vaccines, but also not a fan of trying to stop worse infections from getting in from countries out of control. If a 10 day isolation was in place earlier for India, Delta might have been controlled better for example.
Ok you are aware i have had the vaccine?? So can we just put this nonsense to bed. Having a different opinion of someone who hasnt been vaccinated to you i dont see what the problem is? I try look at all logically from both sides and i am not in favour of penalising non vaccinated. Its on them at the end of the day
As for the 10 day quarantine why did we all take the vaccines then if we have to isolate for 10 days? You dont think its causing chaos? People in important jobs police, doctors, nurses etc who have been vaccinated have to have a further 10 days off in a red country?
If we are so worried about variants we shouldnt have opened up travel in my view. Its causing massive issues and more fear among people.
It's on them for killing others. But there's no penalty. Brilliant.
We have to isolate because there's still a risk. (if you're in Health and Social Care there are new rules in place governing self-isolation when tests have been done)
Not sure what you mean about people being in a red country. But why wouldn't people have to isolate?
Fear among people who decide to travel and take the risk. The easy solution is for them not to travel, then there's no fear.
Stop digging.
Post by: Ketzster on August 25, 2021, 01:12:19 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on August 25, 2021, 01:13:09 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58322829
Right decision in my opinion
At some point the 10 day isolation will have to end as its causing all kinds of chaos
So not a fan of vaccines, but also not a fan of trying to stop worse infections from getting in from countries out of control. If a 10 day isolation was in place earlier for India, Delta might have been controlled better for example.
Ok you are aware i have had the vaccine?? So can we just put this nonsense to bed. Having a different opinion of someone who hasnt been vaccinated to you i dont see what the problem is? I try look at all logically from both sides and i am not in favour of penalising non vaccinated. Its on them at the end of the day
As for the 10 day quarantine why did we all take the vaccines then if we have to isolate for 10 days? You dont think its causing chaos? People in important jobs police, doctors, nurses etc who have been vaccinated have to have a further 10 days off in a red country?
If we are so worried about variants we shouldnt have opened up travel in my view. Its causing massive issues and more fear among people.
It's on them for killing others. But there's no penalty. Brilliant.
We have to isolate because there's still a risk. (if you're in Health and Social Care there are new rules in place governing self-isolation when tests have been done)
Not sure what you mean about people being in a red country. But why wouldn't people have to isolate?
Fear among people who decide to travel and take the risk. The easy solution is for them not to travel, then there's no fear.
Stop digging.
Digging what? Expressing an opinion is digging now?
I have explained why i think the isolation for 10 days is causing problems if you actually read my post .so no one should take a holiday on your view? Just like i said if you read my post travel should not have been opened up. Glad you agree with me.
And may i ask what sort of punishment you are proposing? Fine them jail time? Set them on fire ? If your banning them from doing things such a s games events etc thats punishment enough
My opinion is there there is such a divide between people now and its getting ugly. Also look at whats happening in cornwall the rates shot up. The likelyhood is most of the population is vaccinated people are probably (no factual evidence yet) is that alot of people may have got ill from other unvaccinated. If there was data showing us how many unvaccinated were going there id like to see the information.
Lets say non vaccinated people are banned from games like you guys want and people get ill from villa park. Who do we blame then?
Post by: oldhill_avfc on August 25, 2021, 01:32:18 PM
But you do have to accept that you need to take sensible precautions to reduce risks.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 25, 2021, 04:01:34 PM
You don't blame anyone.
But you do have to accept that you need to take sensible precautions to reduce risks.
I think that is a fair point. But instead of calling everyone scumbags or anti vaxxers who hasnt had it we need to find out why they dont want the vaccine. Provide educating. Some may have had someone who took vaccine and was one of the unlucky ones that had adverse reaction to it. Some may be absolutely terrified. Need to udnerstand why.
Calling a non vaccinated a scumbag (not you in general) is more likely to make them not take it.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 28, 2021, 02:37:45 PM
John McGinn and Jacob Ramsey unavailable for the match Vs Brentford . They currently are following government guidelines because of Corona Virus
Post by: Demitri_C on August 29, 2021, 10:06:05 AM
For me i thought it was less than the newcastle game for where i was sitting. Hopefully no one has tested positive 🤞
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 29, 2021, 10:10:00 AM
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2021, 10:19:56 AM
Post by: Flin5tone on August 29, 2021, 12:19:45 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 29, 2021, 12:21:25 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on August 29, 2021, 12:29:28 PM
Hey, what's going on? I agree with Flin5tone.
Haha
It's all gone very quiet on the Vaccine Passport from the Government . I just can't see how we can go into the winter with them not in use. Cases already going up,look what happened in Newquay after the Music Festival
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2021, 12:45:24 PM
Hey, what's going on? I agree with Flin5tone.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 29, 2021, 09:13:02 PM
Top-flight and EFL clubs had announced they would not permit players to travel to countries on the UK Government’s proscribed Covid-19 list, prompting FIFA president Gianni Infantino to write to Prime Minster Boris Johnson to request exemptions.
Post by: wittonwarrior on August 29, 2021, 09:14:49 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 29, 2021, 09:17:13 PM
"These arrangements mean that Martinez and Buendia will only miss our Premier League match with Chelsea before being available for the visit of Everton to Villa Park on 18th September in order to comply with the UK’s Covid quarantine regulations.
There are no easy solutions as the Covid-19 pandemic continues to adversely impact professional sport. After careful consideration, we think this plan respects the long established call-up rules and balances the importance which top players place on representing their countries in important matches with the best interests of Aston Villa".
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 30, 2021, 02:08:10 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on August 30, 2021, 02:12:17 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 30, 2021, 02:17:05 PM
Post by: KRS on August 30, 2021, 02:19:13 PM
Post by: Risso on August 30, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
He was definitely at the match. No idea re:vaccines.
That could be potentially quite serious you'd think. He seems to be very hands on with the players and was always around them for drinks breaks etc in stops in play.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 01, 2021, 03:14:02 PM
BBC News - Scots to need vaccine passports for large events
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58412832
Post by: Demitri_C on September 02, 2021, 05:01:39 PM
This is good. Assume will apply to football matches and hopefully England and Wales will follow.
BBC News - Scots to need vaccine passports for large events
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58412832
Its only a matter of time id imagine
Post by: Flin5tone on September 02, 2021, 05:11:29 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 05, 2021, 10:15:17 AM
Premier League chiefs have made a video encouraging players to be jabbed
Deputy chief medical officer Jonathan Van-Tam has cleared up misinformation
Van-Tam recorded a video answering a series of questions over the vaccine
The video will be shared among players with the aim of getting more vaccinated
Last week it was revealed that almost a third of players in the English Football League players were not immunised and had no plans to get jabbed
The Telegraph reported that the data collected by the EFL found that around only 70 per cent of EFL players at its 72 clubs had received at least one dose of vaccine or were intending to get one
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 05, 2021, 10:17:06 AM
Steve Bruce said players were being deterred by conspiracy theories about the supposed risks of the vaccine and the motivation for its rollout, while Solskjaer said of his some squad were ‘not sure’ about getting it
A Mail on Sunday survey of clubs through each of the four divisions of the English football pyramid found that those clubs with players who had chosen not to get vaccinated included Cardiff, Middlesbrough, Millwall, Oldham, Bradford, Harrogate and Morecambe
Wolves have confirmed that all their players have been double jabbed
89% of Brentford players have had the first dose
96% of Leeds players have been vaccinated, with the remaining players planning to get the jab
Post by: sickbeggar on September 05, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 05, 2021, 10:43:11 AM
Post by: sickbeggar on September 05, 2021, 10:51:11 AM
Post by: algy on September 05, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
The issue for me is that the people who clearly want to carry on with life 'as normal' are the ones who won't wear a mask because they don't have to, rather than thinking about why they mightn't. I choose to wear a mask still, whenever I'm in a busy place. So I will be when I'm at Villa Park on Saturday, whether that's in the shop, in the concourses or moving about. When I'm in my seat, I'll make a choice as it will be outside and there will be far less risk as a result.Spot on and exactly where I am.
I still wear a mask in shops, cafes and at work in the office (until I'm sat at my desk which has a window nearby and is 3m+ away from anyone else.
I am vaccinated, not because I particularly want to have a needle stuck in my arm but because I know it's the right thing to do. I'm getting closer to being in the higher risk group as I'm 50 (holy fuck) but the reality is, instead of fighting for my rights, I think about other people and society as a whole because I'm not a selfish twat.
The vaccine is safe and in my view, everyone eligible should get it. It is absolutely their choice, but if they don't they should recognise there are other people making choices too, and that might be the choice to not let an unvaccinated person near them. You can't have it all in this life and all that's being suggested is to make a small sacrifice for the greater good.
The studies are clear, the vaccination reduces the risk of catching the thing, reduces the effects if you do catch it, reduces the risk of transmission and therefore reduces the risk to everyone, not just the person receiving it. The side-effects are minimal and for a very limited period of time. So if you don't want to do it, then frankly you don't deserve the nice things in life either.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 05, 2021, 02:12:50 PM
The issue for me is that the people who clearly want to carry on with life 'as normal' are the ones who won't wear a mask because they don't have to, rather than thinking about why they mightn't. I choose to wear a mask still, whenever I'm in a busy place. So I will be when I'm at Villa Park on Saturday, whether that's in the shop, in the concourses or moving about. When I'm in my seat, I'll make a choice as it will be outside and there will be far less risk as a result.Spot on and exactly where I am.
I still wear a mask in shops, cafes and at work in the office (until I'm sat at my desk which has a window nearby and is 3m+ away from anyone else.
I am vaccinated, not because I particularly want to have a needle stuck in my arm but because I know it's the right thing to do. I'm getting closer to being in the higher risk group as I'm 50 (holy fuck) but the reality is, instead of fighting for my rights, I think about other people and society as a whole because I'm not a selfish twat.
The vaccine is safe and in my view, everyone eligible should get it. It is absolutely their choice, but if they don't they should recognise there are other people making choices too, and that might be the choice to not let an unvaccinated person near them. You can't have it all in this life and all that's being suggested is to make a small sacrifice for the greater good.
The studies are clear, the vaccination reduces the risk of catching the thing, reduces the effects if you do catch it, reduces the risk of transmission and therefore reduces the risk to everyone, not just the person receiving it. The side-effects are minimal and for a very limited period of time. So if you don't want to do it, then frankly you don't deserve the nice things in life either.
Me too except I’m not going to the Villa (or out anywhere except work and shopping). I’m grateful that I’m very happy in my yard and watching football on TV, I accept not everyone is so lucky.
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 05, 2021, 03:33:13 PM
On Friday, unofficial news reporting alleged false statements made by these travelers.
“False information provided to the Brazilian authorities may constitute sanitary infractions and violation of criminal laws."
The Sao Paulo State Health Secretariat said: "An *epidimiological and sanitary investigation has begun."
*relating to the branch of medicine which deals with the incidence, distribution, and control of diseases.
Buendia and Martinez could be at risk of further sanctions if they play.
Also the Argentine Manager has said they are there for all 3 matches when previously it was thought it was 2 games
Post by: Ad@m on September 05, 2021, 08:52:21 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58431607
Quote
Brazil and Argentina's World Cup qualifier was halted just minutes after kick off on Sunday after Brazilian health officials objected to the participation of three Argentine players they believe broke quarantine rules.
The visitors walked off the pitch at the Corinthians arena after the officials came out to stop the game.
A pitch invasion by immigration officials has got to be a world first! Especially one involving two Villa players (Buendia was on the bench)!
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 06, 2021, 08:23:51 AM
Looks like as agreed Martinez and Buendia will only miss the Chelsea match through quarantine
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 08:48:03 AM
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 08:53:06 AM
Argentina arrived back in Buenos Aires. Emiliano Martinez and Emiliano Buendia will depart to Croatia for a 10-day quarantine, as agreed by the AFA, the players and Aston Villa.
Looks like as agreed Martinez and Buendia will only miss the Chelsea match through quarantine
I can't see that they'll be ready for Everton. Depending on what day they arrive in Croatia (if they do) then they might only be allowed out on the Saturday morning. They're then going to fly back, having not trained with the team for a month and play straight away? Can't see it personally.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 08:58:21 AM
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 09:33:39 AM
Martinez is a goalie so I'm not sure how often he trains "with the team" anyway. If they're in Croatia today they could be back in the UK next Thursday or Friday without quarantining. Reckon there would be a very good chance of Martinez starting and no reason why Buendia couldn't be on the bench. It would be nice if the likes of Steer, Bailey and El Ghazi could avoid getting injured in the meantime to mitigate the loss of the two players, but the way the season has gone at least one of them will find a way to be out, no doubt.
With the flight time and time difference they'll probably be in Croatia tomorrow. That's day 0. They've then got to do 10 full days, and are allowed out on the 11th day, which is the Saturday. If they do arrive in Croatia today, then it'll be Friday. It can't be Thursday.
Post by: Demitri_C on September 06, 2021, 10:10:44 AM
If thats the case he should not be allowed to play just like non vaccinated will be banned from games
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 10:29:44 AM
Guys ive been doing some detective work and ronaldo is isolating 10 days with government guidelines. But why? He hasnt tested positive and is returning from a non red country. There has been no reports of him interacting with anyone with covid which seems to suggest to me is that he is one of the footballers who isnt taking the vaccine. If he was vaccinated hw wouldnt have to isolate.
If thats the case he should not be allowed to play just like non vaccinated will be banned from games
Portugal is an amber list country, and you have to isolate at home if you're not fully vaccinated.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 10:33:26 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 10:34:55 AM
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 10:46:44 AM
So he's an anti-vaxxer? Glad to see my suspicions about him being a massive dickhead confirmed.
He might just not be fully vaccinated yet, which is a completely different thing.
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2021, 10:47:46 AM
So he's an anti-vaxxer? Glad to see my suspicions about him being a massive dickhead confirmed.
He might just not be fully vaccinated yet, which is a completely different thing.
Not sure that stops him being a massive dickhead though.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 10:51:11 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on September 06, 2021, 10:57:07 AM
So he's an anti-vaxxer? Glad to see my suspicions about him being a massive dickhead confirmed.
He might just not be fully vaccinated yet, which is a completely different thing.
He might not be but he is in my age group so he should have been offered both by now. The evidence seems to suggest he hasnt had the vaccines. Bellend. Why does he get special treatment?
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 11:03:35 AM
Post by: timeoutbigbar on September 06, 2021, 11:05:10 AM
So he's an anti-vaxxer? Glad to see my suspicions about him being a massive dickhead confirmed.
He might just not be fully vaccinated yet, which is a completely different thing.
He might not be but he is in my age group so he should have been offered both by now. The evidence seems to suggest he hasnt had the vaccines. Bellend. Why does he get special treatment?
Are people not allowed to choose what they put into their own bodies without being called a bellend? I've had both to give context but I think it's every individuals right.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
They are, without doubt, bellends.
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
So he's an anti-vaxxer? Glad to see my suspicions about him being a massive dickhead confirmed.
He might just not be fully vaccinated yet, which is a completely different thing.
He might not be but he is in my age group so he should have been offered both by now. The evidence seems to suggest he hasnt had the vaccines. Bellend. Why does he get special treatment?
Are people not allowed to choose what they put into their own bodies without being called a bellend? I've had both to give context but I think it's every individuals right.
Honestly? During a pandemic, and as a role model for millions of people, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that if he's chosen not to have the vaccine for any reason other than medical advice then yes he's a bellend.
Post by: Demitri_C on September 06, 2021, 11:26:44 AM
What special treatement is he getting?
In my opinion if your banning non vaccinated fans from going thehn players who refuse to get shouldnt be playing as they can also pass on the virus to their fellow players coaching staff etc.
Post by: OCD on September 06, 2021, 11:50:56 AM
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 12:00:24 PM
What special treatement is he getting?
In my opinion if your banning non vaccinated fans from going thehn players who refuse to get shouldnt be playing as they can also pass on the virus to their fellow players coaching staff etc.
Fans aren't currently being banned for being unvaccinated though.
Post by: Bad English on September 06, 2021, 12:26:53 PM
What would one really say in Portuguese to call Ladyboy a bellend?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 06, 2021, 01:30:46 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on September 06, 2021, 01:37:22 PM
What special treatement is he getting?
In my opinion if your banning non vaccinated fans from going thehn players who refuse to get shouldnt be playing as they can also pass on the virus to their fellow players coaching staff etc.
Fans aren't currently being banned for being unvaccinated though.
You are right but they have said you need proof of vaccination to large sporting events 'a passport' its coming.
He shouldnt get any special treatment then thats enforced.
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
You are right but they have said you need proof of vaccination to large sporting events 'a passport' its coming.
He shouldnt get any special treatment then thats enforced.
Well, until there is a passport, and you need one to either watch or play a game of football, and if you do it transpires that Ronaldo isn't being vaccinated, I don't think there's much point in worrying about it.
Post by: Demitri_C on September 06, 2021, 07:08:45 PM
You are right but they have said you need proof of vaccination to large sporting events 'a passport' its coming.
He shouldnt get any special treatment then thats enforced.
Well, until there is a passport, and you need one to either watch or play a game of football, and if you do it transpires that Ronaldo isn't being vaccinated, I don't think there's much point in worrying about it.
Agreed. It will be very shortly it seems as early as October. What gets me is that they slate the general public for being anti vaxxers for those who havent had vaccine. Yet you have people like ronaldo not getting critised for it. I doubt the media will ever name him.
The guy should be encouraging people and when the passports come out he should be treated the same as those who havent been vaccinated.
Post by: Flin5tone on September 07, 2021, 01:14:45 AM
Post by: sid1964 on September 07, 2021, 06:26:17 AM
I pity the stewards who are going to have to tell supporters that they cannot gain entry to the ground because they have not got the right paperwork or proof of a negative test
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 07, 2021, 06:29:49 AM
When we have to prove we have been double jabbed to gain entry to the match, the queues are going to be very long!!!
I pity the stewards who are going to have to tell supporters that they cannot gain entry to the ground because they have not got the right paperwork or proof of a negative test
I went to a festival this weekend and an additional zap of a QR code was the extra process, so arguably double the time but nothing crazy.
Post by: Demitri_C on September 07, 2021, 08:20:09 AM
When we have to prove we have been double jabbed to gain entry to the match, the queues are going to be very long!!!
I pity the stewards who are going to have to tell supporters that they cannot gain entry to the ground because they have not got the right paperwork or proof of a negative test
I went to a festival this weekend and an additional zap of a QR code was the extra process, so arguably double the time but nothing crazy.
Imagine if people have their info on their phones and their battery dies. 🤦♂️
Post by: algy on September 07, 2021, 09:29:21 AM
Yes, they can choose what they put in their own bodies and that is their right.So he's an anti-vaxxer? Glad to see my suspicions about him being a massive dickhead confirmed.
He might just not be fully vaccinated yet, which is a completely different thing.
He might not be but he is in my age group so he should have been offered both by now. The evidence seems to suggest he hasnt had the vaccines. Bellend. Why does he get special treatment?
Are people not allowed to choose what they put into their own bodies without being called a bellend? I've had both to give context but I think it's every individuals right.
However, that isn't the same as having complete freedom of choice if you do that. So yeah, if you don't want to be vaccinated that's fine. But you don't get to go to large scale gatherings, you have stricter quarantine rules, ... because ultimately the responsibility is there for each of us to reduce the impact of the global pandemic. One way to do that is being vaccinated. Another way is limited social contact, protective masks, etc. You have the right to choose which of those is most appropriate for you, but you don't get to choose 'neither'.
Post by: amfy on September 07, 2021, 10:00:24 AM
When we have to prove we have been double jabbed to gain entry to the match, the queues are going to be very long!!!
I pity the stewards who are going to have to tell supporters that they cannot gain entry to the ground because they have not got the right paperwork or proof of a negative test
I went to a festival this weekend and an additional zap of a QR code was the extra process, so arguably double the time but nothing crazy.
Imagine if people have their info on their phones and their battery dies. 🤦♂️
I’ve definitely become more aware of the need to keep my phone charged! Carrying a power pack all the time now! ….but it’s got like that with electronic train & gig tickets, Apple Pay etc anyway!
I’ve been checking QR codes on the gate if festivals and a major issue has been the lack of signal - for everyone it’s always worth downloading the vaccination or test certificate before you set out so you can access it without a signal.
To be honest - the checks are, by necessity, cursory. We checked the date and result, but not whether it belonged to that person, or if it was a direct link, a screenshot, or an email (which could be forwarded to someone who isn’t eligible)
Covid passports are a double check for those who are concerned about attending with the virus, but for those who don’t care, there are numerous ways round it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 07, 2021, 10:05:33 AM
Post by: CT on September 07, 2021, 10:13:51 AM
Can't you get something to print off if you're less phone-savvy, or don't have much charge? Assume that would be accepted.
Call 119. Someone posted a link on here a while back, I’m sure. I got mine in letter form within a few days.
Post by: amfy on September 07, 2021, 10:27:00 AM
Can't you get something to print off if you're less phone-savvy, or don't have much charge? Assume that would be accepted.
You can print it off and that’s a safe option, but you will need a new one each time because a NHS passport only lasts a couple of days, & printing is expensive.
You always carry round a 3 ton power bank anyway!
Post by: Duncan Shaw on September 07, 2021, 10:29:51 AM
The NHS app you can email yourself (or anyone else!) a pdf of your certificate for printing - my daughter did hers straight to me the other day to print out as a back up for travelling.Can't you get something to print off if you're less phone-savvy, or don't have much charge? Assume that would be accepted.
Call 119. Someone posted a link on here a while back, I’m sure. I got mine in letter form within a few days.
Post by: Demitri_C on September 07, 2021, 10:31:36 AM
When we have to prove we have been double jabbed to gain entry to the match, the queues are going to be very long!!!
I pity the stewards who are going to have to tell supporters that they cannot gain entry to the ground because they have not got the right paperwork or proof of a negative test
I do the same with battery packs! Its the most handy thing. I take it everywhere with me now.
I went to a festival this weekend and an additional zap of a QR code was the extra process, so arguably double the time but nothing crazy.
Imagine if people have their info on their phones and their battery dies. 🤦♂️
I’ve definitely become more aware of the need to keep my phone charged! Carrying a power pack all the time now! ….but it’s got like that with electronic train & gig tickets, Apple Pay etc anyway!
I’ve been checking QR codes on the gate if festivals and a major issue has been the lack of signal - for everyone it’s always worth downloading the vaccination or test certificate before you set out so you can access it without a signal.
To be honest - the checks are, by necessity, cursory. We checked the date and result, but not whether it belonged to that person, or if it was a direct link, a screenshot, or an email (which could be forwarded to someone who isn’t eligible)
Covid passports are a double check for those who are concerned about attending with the virus, but for those who don’t care, there are numerous ways round it.
I do same thing! Battery packs are thw most handy thing. I take it everywhere with me these days
just dont see large scale events having time to thoroughly check these QR codes. Imagine 70k at OT how long that takes as well as checking people for weapons and shit like that.
In clubs they will do the bare minimum as they have lost so much money and are against these vaccine passports
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 07, 2021, 10:32:52 AM
Can't you get something to print off if you're less phone-savvy, or don't have much charge? Assume that would be accepted.
You can print it off and that’s a safe option, but you will need a new one each time because a NHS passport only lasts a couple of days, & printing is expensive.
You always carry round a 3 ton power bank anyway!
That's true, I was thinking more about others who were worried. 🙂
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2021, 12:30:12 PM
Can't you get something to print off if you're less phone-savvy, or don't have much charge? Assume that would be accepted.
You can print it off and that’s a safe option, but you will need a new one each time because a NHS passport only lasts a couple of days, & printing is expensive.
The NHS COVID Passes that I download from the App last for a month
Post by: john e on September 07, 2021, 01:28:15 PM
When we have to prove we have been double jabbed to gain entry to the match, the queues are going to be very long!!!
I pity the stewards who are going to have to tell supporters that they cannot gain entry to the ground because they have not got the right paperwork or proof of a negative test
I went to a festival this weekend and an additional zap of a QR code was the extra process, so arguably double the time but nothing crazy.
Imagine if people have their info on their phones and their battery dies. 🤦♂️
I’ve definitely become more aware of the need to keep my phone charged! Carrying a power pack all the time now! ….but it’s got like that with electronic train & gig tickets, Apple Pay etc anyway!
I’ve been checking QR codes on the gate if festivals and a major issue has been the lack of signal - for everyone it’s always worth downloading the vaccination or test certificate before you set out so you can access it without a signal.
To be honest - the checks are, by necessity, cursory. We checked the date and result, but not whether it belonged to that person, or if it was a direct link, a screenshot, or an email (which could be forwarded to someone who isn’t eligible)
Covid passports are a double check for those who are concerned about attending with the virus, but for those who don’t care, there are numerous ways round it.
My cousin is a Man Utd season ticket holder and says his ST is on his phone app now
so it's probably coming
Post by: Small Rodent on September 07, 2021, 02:36:00 PM
The NHS COVID Passes that I download from the App last for a month
Which app is this, the NHS one? Do you have to enter a result then you get the option?
Post by: darren woolley on September 07, 2021, 03:16:34 PM
The NHS COVID Passes that I download from the App last for a month
Which app is this, the NHS one? Do you have to enter a result then you get the option?
You don't have to put your results in I just put my details in and they send a barcode and it's in the app.
Post by: Flin5tone on September 11, 2021, 01:52:08 PM
A Great message from JVT for those attending Football matches. Let's hope the selfish morons who refuse the Vaccine and Tests take note or stay away.
Post by: aldridgeboy on September 11, 2021, 02:10:32 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on September 12, 2021, 02:33:30 PM
Post by: KRS on September 14, 2021, 04:02:59 AM
Post by: Ian. on September 14, 2021, 07:03:41 AM
Everyone one I know who’ve had Covid and have been vaccinated have not been too poorly so the vaccine is working in that respect.
So if that’s the case isn’t it just a case that in a crowd if you haven’t had the vaccine it’s your own risk to take more so than risking others?
Post by: KRS on September 14, 2021, 07:35:28 AM
Post by: Ian. on September 14, 2021, 07:40:52 AM
I’d just like to add, I’m vaccinated and I’m glad to say my eldest is too. But as the was I see it spreading, choosing not have the vaccination seems to be putting yourself at risk and anyone who chooses to go to any venue is also at risk of catching and spreading it.
I know they said having the vaccine is supposed to slow down the spread, but is it actually? I guess that’s my point to this.
Post by: Ad@m on September 14, 2021, 07:52:11 AM
But from my experience here it’s spreading amongst us who are vaccinated. So if that’s the case being in populated areas is the greater risk.
I’d just like to add, I’m vaccinated and I’m glad to say my eldest is too. But as the was I see it spreading, choosing not have the vaccination seems to be putting yourself at risk and anyone who chooses to go to any venue is also at risk of catching and spreading it.
I know they said having the vaccine is supposed to slow down the spread, but is it actually? I guess that’s my point to this.
It's not about the safety of people who choose not to have the vaccine. It's the safety of those who can't have the vaccine being put at greater risk by those who choose not to that's the issue.
Post by: Ian. on September 14, 2021, 07:56:20 AM
Everyone I know including my own family have had the vaccine and have all caught Covid.
For those who can’t have the vaccine because of medical reasons, I have no idea what the answer is because it’s not going away. Also people can’t shield forever so this is not hiding too well.
Post by: Ad@m on September 14, 2021, 08:02:14 AM
The vaccines work. If everyone who can be is vaccinated the chance of meeting someone with covid is much lower than if no one is vaccinated.
It's not zero because no vaccine is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean we should just forget it and give up on those who have no choice because of the selfishness of those that do.
Post by: KRS on September 14, 2021, 08:03:26 AM
Post by: Ian. on September 14, 2021, 09:42:43 AM
We keep going over the same ground.
The vaccines work. If everyone who can be is vaccinated the chance of meeting someone with covid is much lower than if no one is vaccinated.
It's not zero because no vaccine is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean we should just forget it and give up on those who have no choice because of the selfishness of those that do.
Like I said, the vaccines are working when it comes to the prevention of serious illness, but not stopping the spreading. So maybe so the only real prevention for spreading is not attending or having mass crowds? Which is all I was getting at.
Post by: Ad@m on September 14, 2021, 12:08:10 PM
We keep going over the same ground.
The vaccines work. If everyone who can be is vaccinated the chance of meeting someone with covid is much lower than if no one is vaccinated.
It's not zero because no vaccine is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean we should just forget it and give up on those who have no choice because of the selfishness of those that do.
Like I said, the vaccines are working when it comes to the prevention of serious illness, but not stopping the spreading. So maybe so the only real prevention for spreading is not attending or having mass crowds? Which is all I was getting at.
But the vaccines are stopping the spread. Vaccines reduce infection by at least 50%. If you don't have covid, you can't spread it.
So the safest thing for those who can't have the vaccine is for everyone who can to be vaccinated.
Post by: WarszaVillan on September 14, 2021, 12:16:40 PM
We keep going over the same ground.
The vaccines work. If everyone who can be is vaccinated the chance of meeting someone with covid is much lower than if no one is vaccinated.
It's not zero because no vaccine is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean we should just forget it and give up on those who have no choice because of the selfishness of those that do.
Like I said, the vaccines are working when it comes to the prevention of serious illness, but not stopping the spreading. So maybe so the only real prevention for spreading is not attending or having mass crowds? Which is all I was getting at.
But the vaccines are stopping the spread. Vaccines reduce infection by at least 50%. If you don't have covid, you can't spread it.
So the safest thing for those who can't have the vaccine is for everyone who can to be vaccinated.
I agree with your last sentence. But look at Israel now and the waning of especially the mrna vaccines (for infection) after the spread of delta.
Post by: Demitri_C on September 14, 2021, 12:30:10 PM
We keep going over the same ground.
The vaccines work. If everyone who can be is vaccinated the chance of meeting someone with covid is much lower than if no one is vaccinated.
It's not zero because no vaccine is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean we should just forget it and give up on those who have no choice because of the selfishness of those that do.
Like I said, the vaccines are working when it comes to the prevention of serious illness, but not stopping the spreading. So maybe so the only real prevention for spreading is not attending or having mass crowds? Which is all I was getting at.
But the vaccines are stopping the spread. Vaccines reduce infection by at least 50%. If you don't have covid, you can't spread it.
So the safest thing for those who can't have the vaccine is for everyone who can to be vaccinated.
Genuinely asking and not taking the piss but where did you hear it reduces transmission by 50%?
Post by: Ad@m on September 14, 2021, 12:37:58 PM
Post by: Smithy on September 14, 2021, 12:48:32 PM
There WAS some research that appeared to show vaccinated people who got symptomatic covid shed as much virus as unvaccinated people with symptomatic Covid. This was latched onto as "Vaccinated people spread it as much as unvaccinated" - without taking into account the context that vaccinated people are FAR less likely to have symptomatic Covid in the first place.
Without that context, the statement "vaccinated people spread it as much as non-vaccinated people" is true, but misleading.
Post by: Risso on September 14, 2021, 12:55:03 PM
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/spread-of-delta-sars-cov-2-variant-driven-by-combination-of-immune-escape-and-increased-infectivity
Post by: Demitri_C on September 14, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
Unfortunately, some research shows that the Delta variant is 8 times more effective at spreading between vaccinated people than the Alpha variant was. Other research shows that vaccinated people with Covid 19 have just as high a viral load as unvaccinated people. Which to my non-scientific mind shows that the main reason for the vaccine now is to greatly reduce the severity of symptoms.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/spread-of-delta-sars-cov-2-variant-driven-by-combination-of-immune-escape-and-increased-infectivity
That was my understanding too
Post by: Ian. on September 14, 2021, 01:36:42 PM
Unfortunately, some research shows that the Delta variant is 8 times more effective at spreading between vaccinated people than the Alpha variant was. Other research shows that vaccinated people with Covid 19 have just as high a viral load as unvaccinated people. Which to my non-scientific mind shows that the main reason for the vaccine now is to greatly reduce the severity of symptoms.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/spread-of-delta-sars-cov-2-variant-driven-by-combination-of-immune-escape-and-increased-infectivity
Quite, this is where I’m with it. I said this morning, to ignore my ignorance on the science and stats with the spread with vaccinated people, but from experience with my family and lots of friends, also I work in a small community, which we’re seeing lots of cases, it’s spreading so quick and I don’t know anyone who isn’t vaccinated.
On the plus side, with everyone I know, nobody is becoming too ill. So it’s working on that side on things.
I’d say this 50% reduction is not true.
Post by: Flin5tone on September 14, 2021, 02:08:19 PM
They are now recommending everyone indoors wears a face covering, I don't expect to see anyone wearing them at VIlla Park on Saturday.
In some areas of the country it's running as low as 60% fully vaccinated.
Post by: Ad@m on September 14, 2021, 03:23:16 PM
Unfortunately, some research shows that the Delta variant is 8 times more effective at spreading between vaccinated people than the Alpha variant was. Other research shows that vaccinated people with Covid 19 have just as high a viral load as unvaccinated people. Which to my non-scientific mind shows that the main reason for the vaccine now is to greatly reduce the severity of symptoms.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/spread-of-delta-sars-cov-2-variant-driven-by-combination-of-immune-escape-and-increased-infectivity
More effective at spreading than the Alpha variant but still less effective at spreading amongst vaccinated people than unvaccinated. There's not a variant on the planet which isn't affected to some degree by the vaccines.
And the viral load point, as Smithy said, is a comparison of infected vaccinated people to infected unvaccinated people. If the vaccination stops you catching covid, which it does to some extent, you can't spread it.
Post by: Dave on September 14, 2021, 03:53:03 PM
They are now recommending everyone indoors wears a face covering, I don't expect to see anyone wearing them at VIlla Park on Saturday.
Can't think why nobody is taking them seriously and just not bothering.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article24797580.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/1_Coronavirus-Wed-Aug-18-2021.jpg)
Post by: Ad@m on September 14, 2021, 04:21:14 PM
They are now recommending everyone indoors wears a face covering, I don't expect to see anyone wearing them at VIlla Park on Saturday.
Can't think why nobody is taking them seriously and just not bothering.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article24797580.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/1_Coronavirus-Wed-Aug-18-2021.jpg)
You misunderstand Dave. The rules are there for the plebs, not the important people at Westminster.
Post by: JD on September 15, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
They are now recommending everyone indoors wears a face covering, I don't expect to see anyone wearing them at VIlla Park on Saturday.
Can't think why nobody is taking them seriously and just not bothering.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article24797580.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/1_Coronavirus-Wed-Aug-18-2021.jpg)
Brilliant. Bunch of Cnuts.
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 23, 2021, 11:23:34 PM
A report in Daily Mail:
Premier League clubs fear the season could descend into chaos amid ongoing resistance to Covid jabs.
Wolves, Brentford and Leeds — with reported vaccination rates of between 89 and 100 per cent — have been successful in persuading players to have the jab, but others are struggling to convince their stars.
Well-placed sources have revealed to Sportsmail that just 30-35 per cent of top-flight footballers have been vaccinated, compared to around 70 per cent in the EFL. At least two top-flight sides have no more than half a dozen players jabbed, and others have less than half.
A number of sides who don’t have European commitments are said to be having difficulty persuading squad members to have the jab.
Post by: placeforparks on September 24, 2021, 06:05:12 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on September 24, 2021, 08:03:06 PM
Difficult to wear a mask with no chin to hold it in place. TBF 4 of them are trying them out though.They are now recommending everyone indoors wears a face covering, I don't expect to see anyone wearing them at VIlla Park on Saturday.
Can't think why nobody is taking them seriously and just not bothering.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article24797580.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/1_Coronavirus-Wed-Aug-18-2021.jpg)
Brilliant. Bunch of Cnuts.
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 30, 2021, 10:04:49 AM
In the letter, seen by Sky Sports News, the exact incentive has yet to be decided, but it comes in the midst of real concerns about the relatively low levels of Covid protection for Premier League players.
The Premier League has revealed that 13 of the 20 clubs in the top division have squads where fewer than 50 per cent of the players are fully vaccinated against coronavirus.
League officials have now written directly to clubs offering a special "reward" to those who have the highest number of vaccinated players.
In the letter, seen by Sky Sports News, the exact incentive has yet to be decided, but it comes in the midst of real concerns about the relatively low levels of Covid protection for Premier League players.
With winter approaching, officials want to ensure the elite level of the game is one step ahead of any stricter regulation that the Government may introduce.
A key part of the Premier League letter says: "According to the data we have, only seven clubs' squads are more than 50 per cent fully vaccinated, so we have a way to go. We are considering if and how best we can 'reward' those squads/players who are most Covid-compliant and who have opted to be vaccinated.
"It is increasingly clear that full vaccination will be the key criteria for Government and health authorities, in terms of international travel and potential Covid certification at large scale events."
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 06, 2021, 02:07:48 AM
Post by: KRS on October 06, 2021, 03:23:46 AM
Post by: Ian. on October 06, 2021, 07:04:32 AM
I wonder if Klopp will not play these players?
Post by: Demitri_C on October 06, 2021, 08:34:21 AM
Post by: Ad@m on October 06, 2021, 12:42:16 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on October 06, 2021, 01:42:12 PM
I'd also suggest that footballers aren't exactly renowned for their intellect...
Our ex player callum Robinson has openly come out and said despute having covid twice he will not be gettin the vaccine
Post by: WassallVillain on October 06, 2021, 07:33:28 PM
Post by: frank black on October 06, 2021, 07:37:54 PM
In all honesty if I was in a child raising age group I would think twice. The testing regime was excellent but short and as such no one knows if there will be any long term issues. I had that conversation with my son and his wife and at the end of the day they went ahead and got vaccinated. Only time will tell.
May I ask why being of child raising age is a factor?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 06, 2021, 07:40:48 PM
I'd also suggest that footballers aren't exactly renowned for their intellect...
Our ex player callum Robinson has openly come out and said despute having covid twice he will not be gettin the vaccine
I would have hoped that the fear of long-covid alone would have been enough for any athlete to get vaccinated.
Post by: Ian. on October 06, 2021, 07:45:16 PM
I’m still of the opinion if you want to protect yourself and you can have the jabs, have them. If you want to take the risk with out them, again that’s up to you. I know so many people who have had Covid now and have passed it onto others and they were all vaccinated. With this Delta variant I’m positive you will pass it on regardless of having the jab or not.
We really have become extremely judgemental towards folk nowadays.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 06, 2021, 07:49:57 PM
I have no problems with anyone choosing not have the jabs. It has to be your own choice and it should be respected. I’ve said this from the beginning. I’ve had mine, so has my wife and we didn’t make our eldest have it but she wanted to do so. My thirteen year old is not sure and I respect her wishes. She’s had Covid once as well.
I’m still of the opinion if you want to protect yourself and you can have the jabs, have them. If you want to take the risk with out them, again that’s up to you. I know so many people who have had Covid now and have passed it onto others and they were all vaccinated. With this Delta variant I’m positive you will pass it on regardless of having the jab or not.
We really have become extremely judgemental towards folk nowadays.
Thats where im.at Ian
Post by: Ad@m on October 06, 2021, 08:42:41 PM
I have no problems with anyone choosing not have the jabs. It has to be your own choice and it should be respected. I’ve said this from the beginning. I’ve had mine, so has my wife and we didn’t make our eldest have it but she wanted to do so. My thirteen year old is not sure and I respect her wishes. She’s had Covid once as well.
I’m still of the opinion if you want to protect yourself and you can have the jabs, have them. If you want to take the risk with out them, again that’s up to you. I know so many people who have had Covid now and have passed it onto others and they were all vaccinated. With this Delta variant I’m positive you will pass it on regardless of having the jab or not.
We really have become extremely judgemental towards folk nowadays.
And yet medical evidence would tell you you're much less likely to pass it on if you're vaccinated.
So not only is an unvaccinated person putting themselves at risk, they're putting others at greater risk of covid, and because they're much more likely to be hospitalised if they catch covid, they're putting non-covid patients at risk too.
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 06, 2021, 09:17:25 PM
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 06, 2021, 09:29:20 PM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
Post by: Ad@m on October 06, 2021, 09:44:00 PM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 06, 2021, 09:52:11 PM
It has to be your own choice and it should be respected.
It absolutely should NOT be respected if gullible idiots are putting the vulnerable at risk and delaying greater freedoms for others by their own selfish behaviour.
There is no excuse for those that can have the jab choosing not to do so. They're selfish wankers.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 06, 2021, 10:43:07 PM
It has to be your own choice and it should be respected.
It absolutely should NOT be respected if gullible idiots are putting the vulnerable at risk and delaying greater freedoms for others by their own selfish behaviour.
There is no excuse for those that can have the jab choosing not to do so. They're selfish wankers.
I totally agree.
"It's my choice to put your life at risk".
What bullshit.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 06, 2021, 10:47:21 PM
Post by: Ian. on October 06, 2021, 11:06:46 PM
There’s a huge proportion of people who will not have the vaccine because of their religious beliefs. That again has to be their choice. I’m not religious in any way and do not understand it and can’t think of any reason to have such faith in a higher being. But I can’t and won’t criticise those that choose to.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 06, 2021, 11:14:00 PM
As for using religion, I can guarantee that it doesn't say "do not have a Coronavirus vaccine" in the Bible, Torah, Quran or other holy books.
Even if they did, though, no excuse. Any more than it would be if someone discrimated against women or gay people because they stupidly believe that some thousand(s) year old book told them to. Total bollocks.
Post by: Ad@m on October 07, 2021, 12:26:42 AM
If you’ve had the vaccine isn’t that your way of protect yourself?
There’s a huge proportion of people who will not have the vaccine because of their religious beliefs. That again has to be their choice. I’m not religious in any way and do not understand it and can’t think of any reason to have such faith in a higher being. But I can’t and won’t criticise those that choose to.
You're fundamentally missing the point of vaccines. As well as cdbw's point about those who can't have vaccines for medical reasons, vaccines aren't 100% effective so having one doesn't make you bulletproof.
Instead, it's a numbers game and the more people who have the vaccine the lower everyone's chance of catching covid is.
No matter how you try to argue it, choosing not to have the vaccine is a selfish choice which endangers others. It's unarguable and unforgivable.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 07, 2021, 06:28:21 AM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
Post by: Ian. on October 07, 2021, 07:00:20 AM
If you’ve had the vaccine isn’t that your way of protect yourself?
There’s a huge proportion of people who will not have the vaccine because of their religious beliefs. That again has to be their choice. I’m not religious in any way and do not understand it and can’t think of any reason to have such faith in a higher being. But I can’t and won’t criticise those that choose to.
You're fundamentally missing the point of vaccines. As well as cdbw's point about those who can't have vaccines for medical reasons, vaccines aren't 100% effective so having one doesn't make you bulletproof.
Instead, it's a numbers game and the more people who have the vaccine the lower everyone's chance of catching covid is.
No matter how you try to argue it, choosing not to have the vaccine is a selfish choice which endangers others. It's unarguable and unforgivable.
I’m just trying to see it from the point of view from others and their reasons for not having it. As I’ve said it’s spread so far through so many people I know who we’re vaccinated. It didn’t stop the spread but it certainly stopped everyone becoming too ill.
Maybe we should as a nation, concentrate on the roll out of our vaccines to the third world countries and hep vaccinate everyone who wants and needs it throughout the world. As I agree, the more who have it the better. Even though we will never vaccinate everyone for some reason or another.
Post by: Vegas on October 07, 2021, 07:14:16 AM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
Post by: wince on October 07, 2021, 07:56:20 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 07, 2021, 08:54:16 AM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
Aye.
It's very simple, Demetri.
Whose rights are more important...
(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine
or
(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?
It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.
Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?
No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 07, 2021, 09:40:01 AM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
I dont agree how is that a poor logic?
Comparing them to drink drivers is more poorer in my view. Its not the same at all.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 07, 2021, 09:41:06 AM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
Aye.
It's very simple, Demetri.
Whose rights are more important...
(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine
or
(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?
It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.
Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?
No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.
Im not agrguing your points im arguing that comparing them to drink driving is ridiculous
Post by: Risso on October 07, 2021, 09:54:12 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 07, 2021, 10:08:07 AM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
Aye.
It's very simple, Demetri.
Whose rights are more important...
(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine
or
(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?
It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.
Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?
No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.
Im not agrguing your points im arguing that comparing them to drink driving is ridiculous
They're on a scale towards drink drivers, aren't they? Both put others' lives at risk by their own selfishness. I'm not sure why you refuse to place them together.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 07, 2021, 10:16:18 AM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
Aye.
It's very simple, Demetri.
Whose rights are more important...
(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine
or
(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?
It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.
Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?
No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.
Im not agrguing your points im arguing that comparing them to drink driving is ridiculous
They're on a scale towards drink drivers, aren't they? Both put others' lives at risk by their own selfishness. I'm not sure why you refuse to place them together.
So we gonna compare them to murderers and rapists as well next?
For me its not the same. Drink driving is a dangerous choice. Its not selfish its just plain right stupid and idiotic
Post by: Demitri_C on October 07, 2021, 10:18:51 AM
Post by: Risso on October 07, 2021, 10:19:24 AM
So is not getting vaccinated, it's surely not that difficult a concept to grasp?
Post by: Demitri_C on October 07, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
It's not remotely ridiculous Dem, and it's a perfectly fair comparison. Both cases are examples of selfish behaviour that have the ability to cost other people their lives. In both cases, there's a very simple, easy solution that doesn't threaten other people in society, ie don't drink alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car, and have a very quick, mostly painless injection.
I think what the government needs to do mart to help with the unvaccinated problem is get unvaccinated people together and find out why they are not getting the vaccine. Open the forum for discussion to try educate them and ease their concerns to make them feel more positive about getting the vaccine.
Instead of people calling them every name under the sun (not saying you just generally) which does nothing to make them get the vaccine. If anything makes them more resistant.
They need to start with footballers like Robinson and Ronaldo people who look up to these players.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 07, 2021, 10:29:38 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on October 07, 2021, 10:33:03 AM
Robinson was asked why, and he declined to give his reasons. It's going to be difficult engaging in a dialogue if people won't open up as to why.
True but in their line of profession thats not good enough for me. If wba are punishing for this then good for them.
Its funny though why they are not saying anything tk mega star like ronaldo.
Tbh we could kind of join the dots and figure out who hasnt been vaccinated. Any player that goes away for internationals to a non red country and is isolating for 10 days hasnt been jabbed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 07, 2021, 12:57:53 PM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
Aye.
It's very simple, Demetri.
Whose rights are more important...
(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine
or
(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?
It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.
Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?
No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.
Im not agrguing your points im arguing that comparing them to drink driving is ridiculous
They're on a scale towards drink drivers, aren't they? Both put others' lives at risk by their own selfishness. I'm not sure why you refuse to place them together.
So we gonna compare them to murderers and rapists as well next?
For me its not the same. Drink driving is a dangerous choice. Its not selfish its just plain right stupid and idiotic
You're all over the place, here.
"Yeah, but rapists" is the best defence you can offer?
I explained why they should be compared to drink drivers, as did Risso. It really isn't that difficult to grasp.
Post by: Ad@m on October 07, 2021, 01:55:19 PM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
Demitri, I don't think you're trolling but your insistence on ignoring facts and trotting out the same old stuff is incredible.
Just like a drunk driver, an unvaccinated person could also kill multiple people and LFTs do not prove you don't have covid. They just flag up people who are asymptomatic would wouldn't otherwise be captured by testing.
This isn't opinion - it's medical fact you're choosing to ignore.
As for the 100% effectiveness argument you're clinging to, the vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing serious illness or death either. So by your same logic of "it doesn't stop 100% of transmission so what's the point", it doesn't stop serious illness or death by 100% so presumably we should chuck the whole vaccination programme for covid, and pretty much every other vaccine, in the bin? The covid vaccine efficacy is about as high as it gets - it's a borderline medical miracle how they developed something that's so effective, so quickly. It's utter insanity to think it's a bad thing.
Don't you see how this makes no sense?
Post by: Risso on October 07, 2021, 03:14:59 PM
If somebody has the covid vaccine, yes they can still get it and pass it on. But their chances of doing so are reduced, and their symptoms will be less severe. If their symptoms are less severe, then there's less chance of them ending up in hospital and taking NHS resources, and there's less chance of passing it on, because if they're not coughing their lungs up they're not ejecting higher viral loads more savagely.
If everybody took the decision to drink and drive, the numbers of deaths on the road would increase dramatically. If everybody took the same selfish decision not to have the vaccine, then deaths would be many times greater than they are at the moment, back in the several hundreds and thousands a day. There really is no good reason for the vast majority of people not to have the vaccine. "Personal choice" by itself is NOT a good reason.
Post by: UK Redsox on October 07, 2021, 03:37:03 PM
If you’ve had the vaccine isn’t that your way of protect yourself?
There’s a huge proportion of people who will not have the vaccine because of their religious beliefs. That again has to be their choice. I’m not religious in any way and do not understand it and can’t think of any reason to have such faith in a higher being. But I can’t and won’t criticise those that choose to.
I will.......
A reason not to have the vaccine is if a reputable doctor says that it is dangerous for you.
Religion is not a valid excuse
Post by: Risso on October 07, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 07, 2021, 04:16:31 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 07, 2021, 04:37:22 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on October 07, 2021, 10:54:55 PM
Because we can’t possibly know if there are any long term affects to fertility or birth defects. The trials were not long enough, understandably in the circumstances, to rule such things out. So I would not condemn anyone in those circumstances deciding to wait a while.In all honesty if I was in a child raising age group I would think twice. The testing regime was excellent but short and as such no one knows if there will be any long term issues. I had that conversation with my son and his wife and at the end of the day they went ahead and got vaccinated. Only time will tell.
May I ask why being of child raising age is a factor?
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on October 08, 2021, 07:49:05 AM
Post by: Risso on October 08, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Because we can’t possibly know if there are any long term affects to fertility or birth defects. The trials were not long enough, understandably in the circumstances, to rule such things out. So I would not condemn anyone in those circumstances deciding to wait a while.
Well I realise it's a small sample, but my wife had our baby after having had the vaccine, and she was OK and our son is absolutely perfect. Friends of ours are due anyday now, and their baby was conceived after she had the first vaccine, so there are no obvious problems.
Post by: Drummond on October 08, 2021, 02:40:32 PM
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.
The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.
Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous. What a imbecile klopp is.
What's different in principle?
Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.
I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.
If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid
This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?
You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.
The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/
(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).
How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?
This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?
I dont agree how is that a poor logic?
Comparing them to drink drivers is more poorer in my view. Its not the same at all.
Hmmm.
How about a drink driver who only does so on their own land? They aren't at risk of killing anyone but themselves. That would be a better comparison with the unvaccinated person who doesn't go out and see anyone.
Anyone who does go out, and won't get vaccinated, is a twonk.
Post by: WassallVillain on October 08, 2021, 03:39:09 PM
Great to hear that. I hope that is the case going forward for all the young people (<30) who will have only been jabbed from May onwards. Some high level publicity on good news like you have may help those reticent to take the vaccine for the reasons mentioned to get on and get it done. Especially Footballers who can influence so many.
Because we can’t possibly know if there are any long term affects to fertility or birth defects. The trials were not long enough, understandably in the circumstances, to rule such things out. So I would not condemn anyone in those circumstances deciding to wait a while.
Well I realise it's a small sample, but my wife had our baby after having had the vaccine, and she was OK and our son is absolutely perfect. Friends of ours are due anyday now, and their baby was conceived after she had the first vaccine, so there are no obvious problems.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 08, 2021, 07:34:00 PM
Because we can’t possibly know if there are any long term affects to fertility or birth defects. The trials were not long enough, understandably in the circumstances, to rule such things out. So I would not condemn anyone in those circumstances deciding to wait a while.
Well I realise it's a small sample, but my wife had our baby after having had the vaccine, and she was OK and our son is absolutely perfect. Friends of ours are due anyday now, and their baby was conceived after she had the first vaccine, so there are no obvious problems.
Thats good to hear mate. My missus has had both but this did worry her. Congratulations on the birth of your son
Post by: WarszaVillan on October 15, 2021, 09:47:08 AM
Not sure what the purpose of checks are if they can't deny people entry (which I assume they have no legal right to do) - probably just to encourage people to comply.
Post by: Exeter 77 on October 15, 2021, 09:54:13 AM
Post by: Risso on October 15, 2021, 10:01:24 AM
It seems Ben Mee has tested positive at Burnley. But will it keep him out for 18 months and all but destroy his career?
Let's hope so.
Post by: Drummond on October 15, 2021, 02:14:57 PM
It seems Ben Mee has tested positive at Burnley. But will it keep him out for 18 months and all but destroy his career?
Let's hope so.
The first case of very, very long covid hopefully.
Post by: London Villan on October 16, 2021, 02:53:31 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 27, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
Post by: Steve67 on November 27, 2021, 05:25:59 PM
Hate to bump this thread but with face masks become mandatory due to the new strain again in shops and public transport I get the feeling BCD matches going to become a thing at some stage of this season.
Already a couple of cases of the new strain in the country. I suspect you may be right, much as I'd hate that to happen.
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 27, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Guess the clubs will be asked to step up checks for xmas period.
In two minds whether to go to Burnley game now. Will see how things play out in next few weeks but cases only going to rise.
Post by: Ad@m on November 28, 2021, 12:57:33 AM
Post by: London Villan on November 28, 2021, 05:50:27 AM
Post by: Towser on November 28, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Haven't been since Brentford late August so just wondered how enforced covid passes are for last few home games.Been to every home game this season, I haven’t been asked to show a covid pass, neither have I witnessed anyone else being asked to show one. I went to the legends tour last Sunday and not asked there either, no mask requirement, only thing they did was a temperature check on arrival, everyone shook hands only DM fist bumped no shaking hands with the Captain, all the other legends shook hands and arms around shoulder for photos etc.
Guess the clubs will be asked to step up checks for xmas period.
In two minds whether to go to Burnley game now. Will see how things play out in next few weeks but cases only going to rise.
Post by: Dave P on November 28, 2021, 07:40:01 AM
I'm yet to be asked to show a covid pass at the Villa despite going to every home game.
I’ve been to every home game too and not had to show a pass to get in the ground but I did have to show it to get in the Holte Suite before the Brighton game.
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on November 28, 2021, 08:16:55 AM
Also PPF2 masks had to be worn in all buildings and transport.
Post by: Ads on November 28, 2021, 08:27:01 AM
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on November 28, 2021, 08:45:13 AM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 28, 2021, 10:32:13 AM
It's not difficult!
Whoosh.
Post by: Risso on November 28, 2021, 10:34:07 AM
Post by: Dave P on November 28, 2021, 11:40:54 AM
It's not difficult!
Whoosh.
He got in a whirl with that one didn’t he?
Post by: exigo on November 28, 2021, 11:45:36 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on November 28, 2021, 01:56:21 PM
Post by: darren woolley on November 28, 2021, 01:59:40 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on November 28, 2021, 02:08:09 PM
It almost feels like we could be going back to square one if Omicron evades the current Vaccines.
Covid Passports should brought in instantly. A system of uploading your Pass online which is linked to your account needs to be enforced as checking at the gates is simply impossible
Post by: Demitri_C on November 28, 2021, 02:26:59 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on November 28, 2021, 02:34:28 PM
A south African doctor was on andrew marr saying countries should be panicking as its very mild symptoms so far
I think it's how fast it spreads is the worrying thing for Governments .
Post by: devilla on November 28, 2021, 02:38:10 PM
Post by: exigo on November 28, 2021, 02:38:43 PM
I havent been asked. Can i ask to those that have been asked did they ask for ID as well or just the pass? As if they didnt ask for ID its abit pointless could be anyones barcodes
Cursory glance at your phone screen showing the NHS QR code, and that's it. Could honestly have been any old screen grab of a QR code and they'd have waved you through.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 28, 2021, 02:48:22 PM
So they're bringing back masks in shops snd on public transport from next week. When is next week? They announced it yesterday so does next week mean from tomorrow? You'd think they'd give a date instead of a vague "next week".
I heard Tuesday this morning
Post by: Dave P on November 28, 2021, 03:11:43 PM
Post by: devilla on November 28, 2021, 03:23:32 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on November 28, 2021, 04:37:57 PM
I havent been asked. Can i ask to those that have been asked did they ask for ID as well or just the pass? As if they didnt ask for ID its abit pointless could be anyones barcodes
Cursory glance at your phone screen showing the NHS QR code, and that's it. Could honestly have been any old screen grab of a QR code and they'd have waved you through.
Its a pointless exercise then isnt it in all honesty if this is the case
Post by: Flin5tone on November 28, 2021, 06:11:17 PM
I take 2 tests a week making sure one is the night before our match.
Post by: Flin5tone on December 08, 2021, 02:54:00 PM
Post by: Drummond on December 08, 2021, 03:24:06 PM
Vaccination Passports imminent according to reports.not sure how they would be able to check 41,000+ Covid Passes at the Gates and even bigger problems at stadiums like Old Trafford.
Shit, it might affect attendances too.
Post by: LukeJames on December 08, 2021, 03:30:06 PM
Post by: john e on December 08, 2021, 03:34:52 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 08, 2021, 03:35:06 PM
Post by: amfy on December 08, 2021, 05:43:55 PM
I havent been asked. Can i ask to those that have been asked did they ask for ID as well or just the pass? As if they didnt ask for ID its abit pointless could be anyones barcodes
If you want to set out to get past the system, it’s easy anyway. You can upload a test as negative without even taking it, so if you want to get round it, it’s easy enough to do with your own ID.
It’s a very light barrier to reduce risk, people who want to get round it can. It simply prompts those who do respect it to be cautious.
Post by: Vegas on December 08, 2021, 06:52:46 PM
We travel a fair way each game so it arrival time varies but queues at 2.40 for a 3pm kick off can be 10 mins. With any sort of additional checks this will go up massively surely?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2021, 07:29:52 PM
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on December 08, 2021, 07:42:06 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 08, 2021, 07:47:07 PM
Might cause issues for people passing over season tickets, Covid pass not matching name on seat etc.
I will be astonished if they bother checking the name on the covid pass to the season ticket. You'll probably be able to get in with a Tesco Clubcard as long as there's a QR code on your phone!
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 08, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
Like now for example.
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 08, 2021, 07:53:42 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on December 08, 2021, 07:59:51 PM
Wondering what happens if the App is down and you aren't able to get your covid pass.
Like now for example.
You can save it in your Apple Wallet and I'm assuming the google version so it is directly on the phone. Or screengrab it and save it in your photos. Of course most people won't think about that before they get to the gates though.
Post by: colin69 on December 08, 2021, 08:09:04 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 08, 2021, 08:09:20 PM
wonder what happens if a player, official, referee or AVFC employee isn't double jabbed.... can they not attend on matchday then?
Negative LFTs count.
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2021, 08:27:04 PM
Vaccination Passports imminent according to reports.not sure how they would be able to check 41,000+ Covid Passes at the Gates and even bigger problems at stadiums like Old Trafford.Yes that would be a problem however it should not be a bigger problem at OT as I presume the stadium is geared to handle it's capacity like other major stadiums.
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 08, 2021, 08:28:16 PM
Got my 3rd (booster jab) this Saturday. It’s never going to go away is it?never, sadly.
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2021, 08:28:55 PM
Wondering what happens if the App is down and you aren't able to get your covid pass.The passport lasts for 30 days so I suggest once you request it on app take a screenshot.
Like now for example.
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2021, 08:30:45 PM
Whitty made a good point that it will move from pandemic to endemic and normalise like other prevalent viruses.Got my 3rd (booster jab) this Saturday. It’s never going to go away is it?never, sadly.
Post by: amfy on December 08, 2021, 09:04:54 PM
Someone shouting to get your passes ready a little way out,
an outer barrier for showing the passes (pretty cursory - a quick date check - similar to a bag check or pat down in terms of thoroughness)
then going through the actual gate/door/turnstile with your ticket as usual.
It’ll slow things down, but probably not as much as we fear, especially once people get used to having a screenshot.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 08, 2021, 09:14:12 PM
Mehdiocdrity
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 08, 2021, 09:18:57 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 08, 2021, 09:56:45 PM
Wondering what happens if the App is down and you aren't able to get your covid pass.The passport lasts for 30 days so I suggest once you request it on app take a screenshot.
Like now for example.
Thanks will do to save the possible matchday hassle.
My phone turns into nothing more than an expensive paperweight the minute I get into VP anyway.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 08, 2021, 10:04:38 PM
Post by: andyh on December 08, 2021, 10:21:36 PM
Even a tiny portion of those people being pissed/argumentative/aggressive is going to create problems.
And,how the fuck does showing a piece paper/qr code prove that you don’t actually have covid at that precise moment in time?
Given the mentality of some of the people who attend football, I’m guessing they’d still attend even if they know they have the virus.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 09, 2021, 09:26:21 AM
If your phone gets nicked and they crack your phone they have access to your nhs number and other sensitive data
One final point, when i last went a steward opening said he isnt taking vaccine. So kind of defies all logic doesnt it if you have other people in the ground doing the same as the fans?
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 09, 2021, 01:25:31 PM
Quote
And,how the fuck does showing a piece paper/qr code prove that you don’t actually have covid at that precise moment in time?
Which makes the whole process a joke - just like it only seemingly operates as a risk when you stand up in somewhere - sit down in a pub / restaurant and all is ok..
I fear this pathetic government (that i am ashamed to say i voted for) will use anything to deflect our attention away from their complete incompetence - and this new strain provides a perfect misdirection
Post by: Nev on December 09, 2021, 01:31:30 PM
As far as checking was concerned it was just a cursary look and that's what will happen at Villa Park. No one really gives a fuck anyway, it's only been bought in as a diversionary tactic by the Government so no one will take it that seriously.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 09, 2021, 01:44:35 PM
*make available offline*
*add to homescreen*
Luddites.
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 09, 2021, 01:47:45 PM
Think smoking ban - the onus is on the owner / proprietor to have signage up and to enforce the rules as any punter / other employee exposed to allowed smoke that contracted a smoking related disease (Roy Castle springs to mind) could sue the employer for exposing them to that risk.
This is exactly the same. If the Government completely ignored scientific advisors (and lets face it not a single published forecast on numbers has been correct yet) then if found liable in law would cost them millions in compo. So they put the restrictions for businesses to enforce which they seemingly cannot on any significant scale - so they tend to go through the motions and then you have to ask what is the point .
I know of several people that have travelled abroad to different locations and have used the same return 2 day test bar code each time (they have to be sure taken the free test at home with negative results of course) - not a thing has been said or done as it is just too big to manage but it is seen that controls are in place
Its all a joke (not covid before anyone claims i am a nutter) but they way it has been managed by this fucking lot
Post by: darren woolley on December 09, 2021, 01:52:52 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 09, 2021, 02:10:57 PM
*Going to have to leave a couple of hours earlier to contend with the longer queues caused by covidiots, and the dicks who make a scene in front of the stewards, when they should be turning their frustrations towards that floppy haired cockwomble in Downing Street (*who most of them probably voted for!).
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 09, 2021, 02:21:10 PM
Post by: amfy on December 09, 2021, 07:10:43 PM
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 09, 2021, 08:10:08 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on December 10, 2021, 12:35:12 AM
Hospitalisations are starting to creep up and the case numbers are very high, although we test around 1 million people per day which is extremely high so 50,000 positive cases isn't as bad as it seems.
I can see large scale protests this Weekend and complete disregard for the rules after the Downing Street Party revelations.
I fear Football and any sort of enjoyment will again suffer. The Travel Industry has took another major blow. The Premier League Football Clubs can sustain it but other local businesses who rely on Matchday Trade can't . This time it looks like there is no financial support.
It really does feel like we have been taken for fools and even some of Johnsons biggest supporters are regretting voting for him and his corrupt party.. It's an absolute disgrace and the whole country has a right to be furious
Post by: sid1964 on December 10, 2021, 07:08:05 AM
They were probably all on the piss in some shit London bar having their Christmas party when they caught the COVid
This could mess up Spurs chances of qualifying for Europe, as there players will take a few weeks to get back into training and playing football, hopefully if we can continue our recent good form we can take advantage of this and finish in the top 6
Post by: nuninho on December 10, 2021, 08:04:40 AM
Post by: Drummond on December 10, 2021, 09:28:18 AM
NHS QR Code checking is a joke. I went to see Shed Seven last weekend at Leicester, showed my code, got let in and have still come down with Covid. I've not been anywhere else. I'm fine, but the worry is that it doesn't build any confidence for future events.
Except it shows that people have at least taken steps to be safe by either getting a vaccination or showing a negative test.
Glad you're ok BTW.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 10, 2021, 09:40:37 AM
I appreciate this is a isolated incident but i bet there are many places like this. This for me is reason rates are going up along with people not wearing masks in shops/trains etc. Its not just the unvaccinated
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 10, 2021, 09:47:34 AM
Post by: frank black on December 10, 2021, 09:51:24 AM
This pandemic has been weaponised to cover up a truly pathetic governments incompetence so the more they are probed / pushed the more they will install controls over normal people
Forgive me, what does this mean?
Post by: Dave on December 10, 2021, 09:54:41 AM
NHS QR Code checking is a joke. I went to see Shed Seven last weekend at Leicester, showed my code, got let in and have still come down with Covid. I've not been anywhere else. I'm fine, but the worry is that it doesn't build any confidence for future events.
Guess you'll just have to stay on stand-by.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 10, 2021, 10:04:44 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 10, 2021, 10:05:14 AM
This pandemic has been weaponised to cover up a truly pathetic governments incompetence so the more they are probed / pushed the more they will install controls over normal people
Forgive me, what does this mean?
Misdirection is a powerful tool
Post by: sid1964 on December 10, 2021, 10:07:10 AM
It always make me wonder why people don't want the jabs? If I had cancer, they could stick anything into my arm if it meant that I would live longer.
Post by: ironmaidenmania on December 10, 2021, 10:34:09 AM
Post by: darren woolley on December 10, 2021, 11:30:23 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 10, 2021, 03:17:22 PM
I just hope like other's have said we don't have another football lockdown.
Do you not think there is an air of inevitability about that?
As soon a a new variant was found you knew we would be heading for restrictions come year end....its almost like it was planne......
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 10, 2021, 04:01:26 PM
Post by: nick harper on December 10, 2021, 04:05:57 PM
I just hope like other's have said we don't have another football lockdown.
Do you not think there is an air of inevitability about that?
As soon a a new variant was found you knew we would be heading for restrictions come year end....its almost like it was planne......
The SAGE scientists seem determined to outdo each other in terms of gloominess which was probably predictable. Hopefully we come nowhere near football being played in empty stadiums again.
Post by: amfy on December 10, 2021, 04:24:22 PM
The NHS QR code is a joke. They don't know your name so it's pointless. How do they know that is your QR code, they don't scan them just look at it so you could really show any QR code and that would be enough. Government panicking over numbers that are predicted, yet all of their predictions have been massively high, yet they still persist in believing them.
When I have done QR checking we have looked at the dates that the code is valid for and we know what the NHS app looks like.
We have also had a quick look at whether the gender & dob looks a reasonable match. I have done ID spot checks on anyone who doesn’t seem quite legit.
You couldn’t show ‘any’ QR code - it’d have to at least be the NHS one, for all but the most lax security.
Nonetheless, I agree it is mainly easy to use someone else’s & just as easy to fake your own as the LFT app only uploads the QR code of the test, it doesn’t read the result, so you can upload a test you didn’t even take and say it was negative.
It’s a bit of a barrier. It makes people think twice. No one thinks it eliminates risk but it does lower it.
Post by: Nev on December 10, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
Don't think it's major conorervirus admissions that's causing the problem, it's just the fact there no room in the hospitals for people,
Just throw together another couple of Nightingales. Piece of piss.
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 10, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
Post by: amfy on December 11, 2021, 01:31:13 PM
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 11, 2021, 02:19:37 PM
Said to the wife about nightingales, there's no medical equipment and where's the power coming from for what needed
Was not all the previous ones dismantled after never being used. Built on Fergusons dodgy algorithm of deaths.
And for as long as I can remember hospitals are full to the brim this time of year,well before Covid was known, as it is the season of respatory illnesses. Add into the mix we are all slowly losing our natural immunity to wad off most air born viruses. How many people have struggled with strong cold recently
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 11, 2021, 02:23:57 PM
Thankfully it never came to that but their simply isn't enough qualified staff around to adequately perform what is needed in them if patients are admitted.
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 11, 2021, 04:58:37 PM
This is way out of control now and its obvious that by the time the government comes up with its knee jerk last gasp, no plan response it will be way to late and football will to take a big hit again, including Villa.
Post by: Ads on December 12, 2021, 03:24:53 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 12, 2021, 03:30:28 PM
You are not going to stop people getting infected if people going out no matter how safe you try to be.
Id rather it was more contagious with milder symptoms as the early signs seem to suggest. Lets hope thats what it turns out to be
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 12, 2021, 04:57:15 PM
One of our first team players has tested positive according to Greg(g) Evans.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on December 12, 2021, 05:07:28 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 12, 2021, 05:19:06 PM
Post by: simboy on December 12, 2021, 05:31:54 PM
https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1470074346949550080
One of our first team players has tested positive according to Greg(g) Evans.
Got to be Sanson
Post by: PaulTheVillan on December 12, 2021, 05:35:34 PM
https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1470074346949550080
One of our first team players has tested positive according to Greg(g) Evans.
Got to be Sanson
We won’t see him again then
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 12, 2021, 05:40:25 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 12, 2021, 07:23:47 PM
Wasn’t Davis. He got injured on the way to the test.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Quality
Post by: Flin5tone on December 12, 2021, 11:39:18 PM
Too many people including our Government not taking precautions or taking the virus seriously.
Booster target seem unrealistic and there seems a great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Seems like the Virus is circulating at Football Clubs now so expecting our Burnley fixture to be postponed if there's more cases emerging over the next few days.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 13, 2021, 12:29:17 AM
I think a FULL lockdown is inevitable, possibly in January.
Too many people including our Government not taking precautions or taking the virus seriously.
Booster target seem unrealistic and there seems a great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Seems like the Virus is circulating at Football Clubs now so expecting our Burnley fixture to be postponed if there's more cases emerging over the next few days.
Think of all the unsold tickets.
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 13, 2021, 03:30:09 PM
Quote
a great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Especially after Javid today, live on TV said that (and i paraphrase)
"even more important to have the booster as we now know the first 2 are deemed to not be working"
WTF :o
How much more corporate branded medicine do we need to have before it is deemed to be working?????
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 13, 2021, 03:33:48 PM
Quotea great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Especially after Javid today, live on TV said that (and i paraphrase)
"even more important to have the booster as we now know the first 2 are deemed to not be working"
WTF :o
How much more corporate branded medicine do we need to have before it is deemed to be working?????
But also directly quoting Boris when he was speaking last night on people who have had no jabs at all "urge you to get at least once as that will offer some protection"
Post by: chrisw1 on December 13, 2021, 03:36:46 PM
Do you not think our hospitalisation and death rates have demonstrated that it's been working over the last 6 months?Quotea great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Especially after Javid today, live on TV said that (and i paraphrase)
"even more important to have the booster as we now know the first 2 are deemed to not be working"
WTF :o
How much more corporate branded medicine do we need to have before it is deemed to be working?????
You are aware the Flu jab has to be taken annually? Virus' mutate, it's hardly rocket science that vaccines need to be updated.
Post by: Smithy on December 13, 2021, 03:54:31 PM
The reality is the people who've had two jabs aren't as well covered against the new variant, but a booster will top up your antibody levels to give you the best chance of avoiding serious illness. If you're completely unvaccinated, even one dose will help. But that doesn't sell newspapers.
I'm keeping everything crossed that the latest variant ends up being milder, but until we have good evidence of that being the case (probably a month away at least), then it makes sense to extra cautious given it seems to be more contagious. My missus had her works Xmas party last Wed in a packed bar, and this morning alone they've had 18 postive covid cases out of 90 attendees. Obviously anecdotes are NOT data, but if it's even remotely indicative, then I'm expecting a lot more covid cases in football over the coming weeks.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 13, 2021, 04:19:09 PM
Do you not think our hospitalisation and death rates have demonstrated that it's been working over the last 6 months?Quotea great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Especially after Javid today, live on TV said that (and i paraphrase)
"even more important to have the booster as we now know the first 2 are deemed to not be working"
WTF :o
How much more corporate branded medicine do we need to have before it is deemed to be working?????
You are aware the Flu jab has to be taken annually? Virus' mutate, it's hardly rocket science that vaccines need to be updated.
Exactly, this variant wasn’t identified until a few weeks ago how anyone was expected to tweak the vaccine to match it in advance is beyond me.
Post by: Ads on December 13, 2021, 05:26:09 PM
Quotea great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Especially after Javid today, live on TV said that (and i paraphrase)
"even more important to have the booster as we now know the first 2 are deemed to not be working"
WTF :o
How much more corporate branded medicine do we need to have before it is deemed to be working?????
Sounds a bit anti-vaxx to me with your Big Pharma mantra.
Always puzzles me that, "Big Pharma", as if there are little cottage industry types making vaccines on the side, in-between making fudge or something.
Post by: colin69 on December 13, 2021, 05:43:19 PM
Vaccines are our way back to normality…..yeah right!!!
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 13, 2021, 05:45:13 PM
Do you not think our hospitalisation and death rates have demonstrated that it's been working over the last 6 months?Quotea great deal of hesitancy from people to take the Booster shot as we were told Two was our route to normality
Especially after Javid today, live on TV said that (and i paraphrase)
"even more important to have the booster as we now know the first 2 are deemed to not be working"
WTF :o
How much more corporate branded medicine do we need to have before it is deemed to be working?????
You are aware the Flu jab has to be taken annually? Virus' mutate, it's hardly rocket science that vaccines need to be updated.
Exactly, this variant wasn’t identified until a few weeks ago how anyone was expected to tweak the vaccine to match it in advance is beyond me.
I take your point Chris but fortunately the scientists were planning ahead as the Glaxo vaccine hopefully will demonstrate.
Oh and Ads, that's probably the funniest thing you've ever said, I'm still pissing myself laughing. Bravo!
Post by: Villan82 on December 13, 2021, 06:11:09 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 13, 2021, 06:21:20 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 13, 2021, 07:14:47 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/dec/13/manchester-united-close-first-team-training-ground-covid-brentford-premier-league
Post by: WassallVillain on December 13, 2021, 07:55:50 PM
That’s exactly what I thought!https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1470074346949550080
One of our first team players has tested positive according to Greg(g) Evans.
Got to be Sanson
Post by: robbo1874 on December 13, 2021, 09:32:47 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 13, 2021, 11:16:49 PM
Likewise no doubt events like football matches will be in govt firing line as regards further restrictions.
Hopefully doesn’t go that way but feels like where the discussion is heading under Bumbling
Post by: sid1964 on December 14, 2021, 06:51:17 AM
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
Post by: ian c. on December 14, 2021, 06:57:23 AM
Thank the lord that we don't live in other parts of Europe, where you are fined for refusing the jab or are in lock down and cannot attend sporting events etc...
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
You can chose not to have the jabs, but you then have to live with the restrictions that that brings. I really don't see an issue with this.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 14, 2021, 07:32:53 AM
Thank the lord that we don't live in other parts of Europe, where you are fined for refusing the jab or are in lock down and cannot attend sporting events etc...
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
You can chose not to have the jabs, but you then have to live with the restrictions that that brings. I really don't see an issue with this.
Exactly. You can choose to be a danger to others, but you must respect their right to be protected from that danger.
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2021, 07:43:30 AM
Post by: frank black on December 14, 2021, 07:44:05 AM
Post by: frank black on December 14, 2021, 07:47:22 AM
I'm guessing that this proves that most footballers aren't suitably jabbed then.
This version seems to infect everyone, just isn’t as aggressive once you’ve got it. The vaccine is not preventing infection (as effectively). Be interesting to know how many have had their boosters
Post by: amfy on December 14, 2021, 08:02:21 AM
I'm guessing that this proves that most footballers aren't suitably jabbed then.
Come on Risso - Surely you know you can still get it after being jabbed? Likely to be milder or asymptomatic, but footballers will be testing every day. It doesn’t matter whether you actually get ill or not, for everyone, not just footballers, if you test positive you don’t go to work!
Post by: algy on December 14, 2021, 08:20:07 AM
+1 from me. That's one of the big misconceptions about the whole free speech / freedom of choice thing - yeah, you have a right to say things or do things, but this is allowable because you have the mitigations. In the case of vaccines, the choice is get vaccinated *or* have tight restrictions. It's not to do nothing.Thank the lord that we don't live in other parts of Europe, where you are fined for refusing the jab or are in lock down and cannot attend sporting events etc...
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
You can chose not to have the jabs, but you then have to live with the restrictions that that brings. I really don't see an issue with this.
Exactly. You can choose to be a danger to others, but you must respect their right to be protected from that danger.
Ads - the Big Pharma comment made me laugh. :)
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2021, 08:46:18 AM
I'm guessing that this proves that most footballers aren't suitably jabbed then.
Come on Risso - Surely you know you can still get it after being jabbed? Likely to be milder or asymptomatic, but footballers will be testing every day. It doesn’t matter whether you actually get ill or not, for everyone, not just footballers, if you test positive you don’t go to work!
Of course I do. It’s unusual for it to sweep through adults like this though in such numbers if they vaccinated.
Post by: Villan82 on December 14, 2021, 09:17:30 AM
Why so many millions cannot grasp this and invent conspiracies is beyond me.
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on December 14, 2021, 09:49:25 AM
Why do people think that having the vaccine stops you from spreading the virus to others? My understanding is that it doesn't. Otherwise why are they still so worried when many people have been vaccinated. Vaccination only protects yourself and lessens the chance of hospitalisation. Those not vaccinated can't be accused of being selfish.+1 from me. That's one of the big misconceptions about the whole free speech / freedom of choice thing - yeah, you have a right to say things or do things, but this is allowable because you have the mitigations. In the case of vaccines, the choice is get vaccinated *or* have tight restrictions. It's not to do nothing.Thank the lord that we don't live in other parts of Europe, where you are fined for refusing the jab or are in lock down and cannot attend sporting events etc...
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
You can chose not to have the jabs, but you then have to live with the restrictions that that brings. I really don't see an issue with this.
Exactly. You can choose to be a danger to others, but you must respect their right to be protected from that danger.
Ads - the Big Pharma comment made me laugh. :)
I have had my 3 jabs by the way.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 14, 2021, 09:54:15 AM
Why do people think that having the vaccine stops you from spreading the virus to others? My understanding is that it doesn't. Otherwise why are they still so worried when many people have been vaccinated. Vaccination only protects yourself and lessens the chance of hospitalisation. Those not vaccinated can't be accused of being selfish.+1 from me. That's one of the big misconceptions about the whole free speech / freedom of choice thing - yeah, you have a right to say things or do things, but this is allowable because you have the mitigations. In the case of vaccines, the choice is get vaccinated *or* have tight restrictions. It's not to do nothing.Thank the lord that we don't live in other parts of Europe, where you are fined for refusing the jab or are in lock down and cannot attend sporting events etc...
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
You can chose not to have the jabs, but you then have to live with the restrictions that that brings. I really don't see an issue with this.
Exactly. You can choose to be a danger to others, but you must respect their right to be protected from that danger.
Ads - the Big Pharma comment made me laugh. :)
I have had my 3 jabs by the way.
If you’re fully jabbed you are much less likely to contract the virus. If you don’t have it then you can’t pass it on.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2021, 09:56:38 AM
So it does help stop the spread to others.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 14, 2021, 09:57:08 AM
I'm guessing that this proves that most footballers aren't suitably jabbed then.
Come on Risso - Surely you know you can still get it after being jabbed? Likely to be milder or asymptomatic, but footballers will be testing every day. It doesn’t matter whether you actually get ill or not, for everyone, not just footballers, if you test positive you don’t go to work!
Of course I do. It’s unusual for it to sweep through adults like this though in such numbers if they vaccinated.
Not really. Two jabs don’t offer much protection against Omicron due to the multiple mutations and footballers are in the age group that only qualified for the booster yesterday.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2021, 09:59:25 AM
Post by: Drummond on December 14, 2021, 10:16:15 AM
Post by: Dave on December 14, 2021, 10:17:31 AM
Post by: NeilH on December 14, 2021, 10:20:59 AM
My gut feeling is that although I've got my ticket for Man Utd, I may well not get to go as I think a lockdown is coming.
Partial lockdown in NL was extended yesterday into the new year and there is no sign of it being lifted anytime soon - All sports venues remain closed and football is being played behind closed doors.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 14, 2021, 10:24:21 AM
My gut feeling is that although I've got my ticket for Man Utd, I may well not get to go as I think a lockdown is coming.
There wont be another lockdown.
Unless we see 1000s of deaths daily its just not gonna happen and to be honest why should we go in another lockdown?
Most of the population is vaccinated now so if your still locking us down your giving the impression the vaccine doesnt work.
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2021, 10:24:45 AM
I'm guessing that this proves that most footballers aren't suitably jabbed then.
Come on Risso - Surely you know you can still get it after being jabbed? Likely to be milder or asymptomatic, but footballers will be testing every day. It doesn’t matter whether you actually get ill or not, for everyone, not just footballers, if you test positive you don’t go to work!
Of course I do. It’s unusual for it to sweep through adults like this though in such numbers if they vaccinated.
Not really. Two jabs don’t offer much protection against Omicron due to the multiple mutations and footballers are in the age group that only qualified for the booster yesterday.
You're assuming they all have the Omicron variant.
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2021, 10:27:04 AM
Having the vaccine reduces its ability to infect and therefore to reinfect.
So it does help stop the spread to others.
A report on R5L this morning said that tests from Israel show that viral loads in vaccinated people with the virus are much lower than those in people who are unvaccinated. So if you're vaccinated, you either spread it less or not at all.
Post by: Ad@m on December 14, 2021, 10:29:21 AM
Why do people think that having the vaccine stops you from spreading the virus to others? My understanding is that it doesn't. Otherwise why are they still so worried when many people have been vaccinated. Vaccination only protects yourself and lessens the chance of hospitalisation. Those not vaccinated can't be accused of being selfish.+1 from me. That's one of the big misconceptions about the whole free speech / freedom of choice thing - yeah, you have a right to say things or do things, but this is allowable because you have the mitigations. In the case of vaccines, the choice is get vaccinated *or* have tight restrictions. It's not to do nothing.Thank the lord that we don't live in other parts of Europe, where you are fined for refusing the jab or are in lock down and cannot attend sporting events etc...
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
You can chose not to have the jabs, but you then have to live with the restrictions that that brings. I really don't see an issue with this.
Exactly. You can choose to be a danger to others, but you must respect their right to be protected from that danger.
Ads - the Big Pharma comment made me laugh. :)
I have had my 3 jabs by the way.
How many times do we have to go through this?!?!
Post by: Des Little on December 14, 2021, 10:30:39 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 14, 2021, 10:48:12 AM
Post by: WarszaVillan on December 14, 2021, 10:49:11 AM
Why do people think that having the vaccine stops you from spreading the virus to others? My understanding is that it doesn't. Otherwise why are they still so worried when many people have been vaccinated. Vaccination only protects yourself and lessens the chance of hospitalisation. Those not vaccinated can't be accused of being selfish.+1 from me. That's one of the big misconceptions about the whole free speech / freedom of choice thing - yeah, you have a right to say things or do things, but this is allowable because you have the mitigations. In the case of vaccines, the choice is get vaccinated *or* have tight restrictions. It's not to do nothing.Thank the lord that we don't live in other parts of Europe, where you are fined for refusing the jab or are in lock down and cannot attend sporting events etc...
You have a choice either have the jabs or not the choice is yours?
You can chose not to have the jabs, but you then have to live with the restrictions that that brings. I really don't see an issue with this.
Exactly. You can choose to be a danger to others, but you must respect their right to be protected from that danger.
Ads - the Big Pharma comment made me laugh. :)
I have had my 3 jabs by the way.
How many times do we have to go through this?!?!
Vaccines reduce the possibility of passing on the virus to some extent but that's all. Look at the numbers at the moment with most of the adult population vaxed - it is still spreading quickly. Where have vaccine passports actually succeeded in bringing down cases, I can't think of any example in the world. The problem is that it gives the impression that vaxed people are safe and can interact normally, which unfortunately isn't true. It's technological theatre.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 14, 2021, 11:04:10 AM
I'm guessing that this proves that most footballers aren't suitably jabbed then.
Come on Risso - Surely you know you can still get it after being jabbed? Likely to be milder or asymptomatic, but footballers will be testing every day. It doesn’t matter whether you actually get ill or not, for everyone, not just footballers, if you test positive you don’t go to work!
Of course I do. It’s unusual for it to sweep through adults like this though in such numbers if they vaccinated.
Not really. Two jabs don’t offer much protection against Omicron due to the multiple mutations and footballers are in the age group that only qualified for the booster yesterday.
You're assuming they all have the Omicron variant.
True, but a spate of infections across a few clubs and games postponed is unusual in recent months so it’s it’s not a great leap to think it might be linked to a more transmissible variant.
Post by: Dave on December 14, 2021, 11:08:52 AM
I might have missed this but how do they know if you have the omicron variant and not the delta or another? How will the test tell you whoch bariant you have?
It won't tell you. It'll tell the people processing the tests.
Post by: Des Little on December 14, 2021, 11:22:04 AM
Post by: Exeter 77 on December 14, 2021, 11:23:11 AM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?At a guess - FA Cup 3rd round weekend.
Post by: Ads on December 14, 2021, 11:56:22 AM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?
We won't.
Post by: Smithy on December 14, 2021, 12:32:27 PM
Having the vaccine reduces its ability to infect and therefore to reinfect.
So it does help stop the spread to others.
A report on R5L this morning said that tests from Israel show that viral loads in vaccinated people with the virus are much lower than those in people who are unvaccinated. So if you're vaccinated, you either spread it less or not at all.
This is the crux of the matter. People opposed to vaccines generally say things like "it doesn't stop you catching it, and it doesn't stop you spreading it, so what's the point?" - like it's some binary situation where you're either 100% infectious of 0% infectious.
The reality is that ALL mitigating strategies simply reduce the likelihood of those transmissions happening. As Risso points out, vaccinated people tend to have a lower viral load when infected, this makes them less infectious (as they're putting less virus out into the surrounding environment). It doesn't STOP them from spreading it completely, but it reduces the chances that they will. Same for social distancing, same for face masks.
All these things make a difference to the probability of transmissions. Some, like vaccines/boosters, make quite big differences to those probabilities. While some, like facemasks, only make small differences - but they all add up, and they ALL count.
Post by: placeforparks on December 14, 2021, 12:35:18 PM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?
unlikely. i think there could well be capacity limits brought in. bundesliga currently has a cap of 15,000 people.
the decision for the premier league will be whether to let government lead on what that cap will be, or propose one themselves.
Post by: Ad@m on December 14, 2021, 12:36:15 PM
Post by: usav on December 14, 2021, 12:44:28 PM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?
Where is the evidence that football supporters are responsible for the rise in cases?
Cases are on the rise right now and that is significant. What is more significant is that deaths are not. When the latter rises significantly above seasonal levels, then we may have something more to worry about. In the meantime, I think people should be able to make their own choices on what they do.
Post by: chrisw1 on December 14, 2021, 12:44:48 PM
Exactly. I'm amazed this still needs to be explained to people. There's also the bonus of if you do get it you are less likely to be seriously ill, therefore less likely to take up NHS resources and on a lower level less likely to be coughing and spluttering over people which increases chances of transmission.Why do people think that having the vaccine stops you from spreading the virus to others? My understanding is that it doesn't. Otherwise why are they still so worried when many people have been vaccinated. Vaccination only protects yourself and lessens the chance of hospitalisation. Those not vaccinated can't be accused of being selfish.
I have had my 3 jabs by the way.
If you’re fully jabbed you are much less likely to contract the virus. If you don’t have it then you can’t pass it on.
I understand people have reasons for not wanting the vaccine, but lets not pretend they're not mostly selfish ones.
Post by: ozzjim on December 14, 2021, 01:14:58 PM
Post by: Drummond on December 14, 2021, 01:31:32 PM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?
Where is the evidence that football supporters are responsible for the rise in cases?
Cases are on the rise right now and that is significant. What is more significant is that deaths are not. When the latter rises significantly above seasonal levels, then we may have something more to worry about. In the meantime, I think people should be able to make their own choices on what they do.
The evidence is around people not wearing masks/being vaccinated (being boosted re Omicron) and let's face it, the only place with consistently large numbers of people gathering together is football grounds isn't it? And the trains and coaches before and after, the sharing of lifts and the pubs people visit before the match.
Post by: usav on December 14, 2021, 01:43:04 PM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?
Where is the evidence that football supporters are responsible for the rise in cases?
Cases are on the rise right now and that is significant. What is more significant is that deaths are not. When the latter rises significantly above seasonal levels, then we may have something more to worry about. In the meantime, I think people should be able to make their own choices on what they do.
The evidence is around people not wearing masks/being vaccinated (being boosted re Omicron) and let's face it, the only place with consistently large numbers of people gathering together is football grounds isn't it? And the trains and coaches before and after, the sharing of lifts and the pubs people visit before the match.
Of course, but everyone inside the train/pub/ground made that decision of their own free will. I just looked it up, 91% of UK adults are fully vaccinated. To be honest, I don't think the number will ever rise much above that unless some kind of workplace labour law mandates it. As for Omicron, we don't have the data yet to say one way or the other what it means.
Post by: Drummond on December 14, 2021, 02:00:09 PM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?
Where is the evidence that football supporters are responsible for the rise in cases?
Cases are on the rise right now and that is significant. What is more significant is that deaths are not. When the latter rises significantly above seasonal levels, then we may have something more to worry about. In the meantime, I think people should be able to make their own choices on what they do.
The evidence is around people not wearing masks/being vaccinated (being boosted re Omicron) and let's face it, the only place with consistently large numbers of people gathering together is football grounds isn't it? And the trains and coaches before and after, the sharing of lifts and the pubs people visit before the match.
Of course, but everyone inside the train/pub/ground made that decision of their own free will. I just looked it up, 91% of UK adults are fully vaccinated. To be honest, I don't think the number will ever rise much above that unless some kind of workplace labour law mandates it. As for Omicron, we don't have the data yet to say one way or the other what it means.
I think the issue is that a lot of people are daft. We've had discussions about the numbers of people not wearing a mask for example. If people won't do it themselves, then the government have to change the law. Everyone makes a choice of their own free will, but if it has a negative impact on others, then someone else has to step in.
It's my right not have my life put at risk by a selfish person not wearing a mask. It isn't the individual's right not to wear a mask because they don't like it, if that puts others at risk is it? Otherwise, if that logic followed through, everyone could do what they wanted all the time and fuck everyone else.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 14, 2021, 02:50:27 PM
I have my 3rd jab tonight, have had covid 6 weeks ago and will continue to wear a mask where I'm around people. The jab doesn't stop the spread, it stops the illness being so severe. Having seen my wife have her first appointment yesterday in hospital for 11 months when they should be every 3, the damage being done to people not getting the treatment for cancers etc that they would ordinarily is untold. Those not getting vaccinated should be mandated to for me.
When you say mandated are you saying they shouldnt be treated?
Post by: WarszaVillan on December 14, 2021, 02:51:06 PM
I can't believe we have to keep having this conversation. With the amount of information out there about how transmission can be reduced, no one can be unaware of it surely? You either believe science or you don't. And if you don't, you're better off on the conspiracy theory thread.
I don't think anyone has argued that vaccines don't help to reduce infection, although this could of course change with variants. The problem is that this does not necessarily lead logically to supporting vaccine passports. Over the past few months mass events have been held around the world with only vaccinated allowed to attend, and look where we are now. It provides a false sense of security that isn't justified for people who are vaccinated. Vaccines are extremely important, but unfortunately many politicians and commentators have been very irresponsible in claiming that vaccines will resolve the pandemic on their own. They won't.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 14, 2021, 02:56:38 PM
At what point do we return to games played behind closed doors do we reckon?
Where is the evidence that football supporters are responsible for the rise in cases?
Cases are on the rise right now and that is significant. What is more significant is that deaths are not. When the latter rises significantly above seasonal levels, then we may have something more to worry about. In the meantime, I think people should be able to make their own choices on what they do.
The evidence is around people not wearing masks/being vaccinated (being boosted re Omicron) and let's face it, the only place with consistently large numbers of people gathering together is football grounds isn't it? And the trains and coaches before and after, the sharing of lifts and the pubs people visit before the match.
Of course, but everyone inside the train/pub/ground made that decision of their own free will. I just looked it up, 91% of UK adults are fully vaccinated. To be honest, I don't think the number will ever rise much above that unless some kind of workplace labour law mandates it. As for Omicron, we don't have the data yet to say one way or the other what it means.
That figure is wrong, for the new variant 3 doses is fully vaccinated and that’s around 40% at the moment. Hence the push for a million jabs a day.
Post by: Ad@m on December 14, 2021, 03:14:51 PM
I can't believe we have to keep having this conversation. With the amount of information out there about how transmission can be reduced, no one can be unaware of it surely? You either believe science or you don't. And if you don't, you're better off on the conspiracy theory thread.
I don't think anyone has argued that vaccines don't help to reduce infection, although this could of course change with variants. The problem is that this does not necessarily lead logically to supporting vaccine passports. Over the past few months mass events have been held around the world with only vaccinated allowed to attend, and look where we are now. It provides a false sense of security that isn't justified for people who are vaccinated. Vaccines are extremely important, but unfortunately many politicians and commentators have been very irresponsible in claiming that vaccines will resolve the pandemic on their own. They won't.
You have a different understanding to me as to what vaccine passports are trying to achieve. They shouldn't infer a sense of security as no one's tried to claim they're 100% effective. But what they do is make life more difficult for those who aren't vaccinated and should therefore encourage them to go and get vaccinated.
Post by: CT Villan on December 14, 2021, 03:34:17 PM
I also note that apparently all science/data are wrong unless they agree with the official narrative, debate is anathema and opposing individuals vilified and censored. As an old scientist I find this deeply troubling.
Post by: WarszaVillan on December 14, 2021, 03:52:23 PM
I can't believe we have to keep having this conversation. With the amount of information out there about how transmission can be reduced, no one can be unaware of it surely? You either believe science or you don't. And if you don't, you're better off on the conspiracy theory thread.
I don't think anyone has argued that vaccines don't help to reduce infection, although this could of course change with variants. The problem is that this does not necessarily lead logically to supporting vaccine passports. Over the past few months mass events have been held around the world with only vaccinated allowed to attend, and look where we are now. It provides a false sense of security that isn't justified for people who are vaccinated. Vaccines are extremely important, but unfortunately many politicians and commentators have been very irresponsible in claiming that vaccines will resolve the pandemic on their own. They won't.
You have a different understanding to me as to what vaccine passports are trying to achieve. They shouldn't infer a sense of security as no one's tried to claim they're 100% effective. But what they do is make life more difficult for those who aren't vaccinated and should therefore encourage them to go and get vaccinated.
It may therefore have the opposite effect
Post by: Ad@m on December 14, 2021, 03:53:36 PM
We appear blessed on H&V to have so many experts in biochemistry, molecular biology, epidemiology, virology etc right here in this thread all freely providing their experience and stating that if you don't agree with them then you must be an idiot/selfish and should be forced to behave in a manner that better meets their approval. This is not how science (or life) usually works.
I also note that apparently all science/data are wrong unless they agree with the official narrative, debate is anathema and opposing individuals vilified and censored. As an old scientist I find this deeply troubling.
Please educate us old scientist. I'm one of those who will quite happily describe someone who refuses to believe what scientists have proven in relation to covid, an idiot. But I wouldn't describe myself an expert in anything, let alone any of the fields you referenced. I do take the time to read what's going on though. And I trust people who are experts in those fields a hell of a lot more than stuff that's posted on Facebook.
But if you have a groundbreaking alternative view that has somehow been missed by the global scientific community, I'm all ears.
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2021, 04:51:24 PM
Post by: Smithy on December 14, 2021, 04:54:52 PM
We appear blessed on H&V to have so many experts in biochemistry, molecular biology, epidemiology, virology etc right here in this thread all freely providing their experience and stating that if you don't agree with them then you must be an idiot/selfish and should be forced to behave in a manner that better meets their approval. This is not how science (or life) usually works.
I also note that apparently all science/data are wrong unless they agree with the official narrative, debate is anathema and opposing individuals vilified and censored. As an old scientist I find this deeply troubling.
Please educate us old scientist. I'm one of those who will quite happily describe someone who refuses to believe what scientists have proven in relation to covid, an idiot. But I wouldn't describe myself an expert in anything, let alone any of the fields you referenced. I do take the time to read what's going on though. And I trust people who are experts in those fields a hell of a lot more than stuff that's posted on Facebook.
But if you have a groundbreaking alternative view that has somehow been missed by the global scientific community, I'm all ears.
The problem, across pretty much every contentious issue - and Covid in particular - is that if you look hard enough, and down enough rabbit holes, you can ALWAYS find an "expert" who agrees with you. This gives the false impression that the science is not "settled", or is still the subject of debate in scientific circles. Obviously, this is untrue, but there is nothing more reassuring than finding a few experts who agree with you.
There is currently a post going viral on Facebook with about a hundred or so "Doctors" listed as being against the vaccine. Not all of the listed names are even medical doctors, and most have been widely debunked for saying things like the vaccine makes you magnetic, but a long list of names with the word "Dr" in front can make it feel like there is no real consensus. Of course, the post ignores the fact that there are about 9 million doctors around the world, the overwhelming majority of whom support vaccination efforts. What matters is listing enough names to give the impression there is a raging debate amongst medical professionals, when the reality is there is not.
The people who believe these fringe "experts" can't be persuaded by evidence, so there is no point trying. You can't use evidence to change an opinion that wasn't formed by evidence in the first place.
Post by: Smithy on December 14, 2021, 05:02:51 PM
I don't think anybody on here is too sure about anything, other than that it's a nasty disease that can kill people, and the more you can do to protect yourself and others, the better. Personally, I'm not convinced that masks make a whole heap of difference, but seeing as it's really not a huge amount of effort to wear one on the train or in shops, I obviously do stick one on.
Indeed, and even if masks make only a very small difference (as the studies appear to show), those small differences can soon add up if everyone wears one.
That's why I don't mind the government being extra cautious with Omicron measures in the short-term. Even if Omicron turns out to only be half as serious as Delta, that's a big problem if it's four times as contagious, because hospitals will fill up quickly. The perfect scenario is that the vast majority of the population is vaccinated and boosted, and Omicron still spreads pretty widely, but turns out to be pretty harmless to the vaccinated (comparatively speaking). But we are unfortunately some weeks away from knowing this with any degree of certainty, obviously, hence my support for the newer restrictions - even if they're a pain in the arse.
Post by: Drummond on December 14, 2021, 06:25:49 PM
We appear blessed on H&V to have so many experts in biochemistry, molecular biology, epidemiology, virology etc right here in this thread all freely providing their experience and stating that if you don't agree with them then you must be an idiot/selfish and should be forced to behave in a manner that better meets their approval. This is not how science (or life) usually works.
I also note that apparently all science/data are wrong unless they agree with the official narrative, debate is anathema and opposing individuals vilified and censored. As an old scientist I find this deeply troubling.
So what data and which scientists should we believe if the official line, from pretty much every official and statutory body and organisation across the world says that Covid-19 is bad for you? And their advice is to get a vaccine, to wear a mask, and be sensible. If not them, then who?
Post by: TheMalandro on December 14, 2021, 06:34:58 PM
We appear blessed on H&V to have so many experts in biochemistry, molecular biology, epidemiology, virology etc right here in this thread all freely providing their experience and stating that if you don't agree with them then you must be an idiot/selfish and should be forced to behave in a manner that better meets their approval. This is not how science (or life) usually works.
I also note that apparently all science/data are wrong unless they agree with the official narrative, debate is anathema and opposing individuals vilified and censored. As an old scientist I find this deeply troubling.
So what data and which scientists should we believe if the official line, from pretty much every official and statutory body and organisation across the world says that Covid-19 is bad for you? And their advice is to get a vaccine, to wear a mask, and be sensible. If not them, then who?
Ken from the Goole Times & Chronicle.
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 14, 2021, 06:47:46 PM
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on December 14, 2021, 06:50:52 PM
That’s probably one of our Covid cases
Post by: LeeB on December 14, 2021, 06:59:07 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 14, 2021, 09:35:52 PM
Sanson too.
If it could have been one player i reckon 99.9% of us would have thought sanson be one of them !
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2021, 10:24:50 PM
Sanson too.
If it could have been one player i reckon 99.9% of us would have thought sanson be one of them !
He'll probably have his own Variant of Concern by tomorrow.
Post by: AV82EC on December 14, 2021, 10:27:01 PM
Sanson too.
If it could have been one player i reckon 99.9% of us would have thought sanson be one of them !
He'll probably have his own Variant of Concern by tomorrow.
Feel really sorry for him, every time he’s on the verge of a start and he’d probably have got one tonight he either gets injured or gets struck down with illness. Has he run over any black cats lately. He just can’t catch a break.
Post by: not3bad on December 15, 2021, 12:28:53 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 15, 2021, 12:41:18 PM
So what will the requirements for entry be on Saturday? Negative Lateral Flow Test?
Same as since August
Quote
All supporters over the age of 18, including those in hospitality, should only attend a match if they have a valid NHS COVID Pass or can show valid alternative proof that they have been fully vaccinated or have registered a negative COVID test in the previous 48 hours.
Fans may be asked to produce evidence to demonstrate one of these forms of valid COVID certification before entering the stadium.
The list of accepted evidence is as follows:
- NHS COVID Pass via: NHS App, Apple/Android Wallet, PDF of NHS COVID Pass, NHS COVID Pass letter
- EU digital COVID certificate
- Negative COVID test result via email or text message*
- Antibody test evidence via NHS App (positive PCR test less than six months ago)*
- NHS COVID vaccine card (physical copy)*
*Please note, this form of evidence is currently accepted but would be insufficient should COVID-19 status certification become mandatory and the government move to Plan B of its COVID response autumn-winter measures.
Updated guidance as of the Wolves game (https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/october/16/updated-covid-19-matchday-guidance/)
Post by: Demitri_C on December 15, 2021, 12:55:36 PM
Post by: Drummond on December 15, 2021, 01:30:38 PM
The LFT are such a waste of time. You can literally just register a negative test without taking the actual test then you get a text saying your negative
Yeah if you're a twat.
Post by: Ad@m on December 15, 2021, 01:48:08 PM
The LFT are such a waste of time. You can literally just register a negative test without taking the actual test then you get a text saying your negative
Yeah if you're a twat.
Sadly, there are plenty out there.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 15, 2021, 01:50:18 PM
The LFT are such a waste of time. You can literally just register a negative test without taking the actual test then you get a text saying your negative
Yeah if you're a twat.
Sadly, there are plenty out there.
Indeed, the entire 'show a negative LF test' thing is so utterly pointless, if people want to get around the rules - and there will be plenty of idiots who do - then this is an easy one to game.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 15, 2021, 02:46:05 PM
The LFT are such a waste of time. You can literally just register a negative test without taking the actual test then you get a text saying your negative
Yeah if you're a twat.
And as we know there world is full of them
Post by: not3bad on December 15, 2021, 06:13:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 15, 2021, 06:28:00 PM
I did think that the club were a bit optimistic saying that the emails would be sent 72 hours before kick off, when it was already less than 72 hours before kick off ::)
Post by: UK Redsox on December 15, 2021, 06:29:40 PM
Just watching the news, they are advising people to arrive an hour before the event starts.
The last couple of games I’ve been the first spectator in the Lower Trinity.
If people can get there 90 mins before KO, I recommend doing so.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 15, 2021, 08:24:07 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 15, 2021, 08:57:50 PM
Just watching the news, they are advising people to arrive an hour before the event starts.
The last couple of games I’ve been the first spectator in the Lower Trinity.
If people can get there 90 mins before KO, I recommend doing so.
I'm taking my son this week, and last time we went together we got in really early. It was nice to have a bit of time and space to ourselves, watch the warm up and stuff, we will be doing it again Saturday.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 15, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
Meanwhile in south africa the rates are dropping a nd death rates are low.
Post by: andyh on December 15, 2021, 10:18:39 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 15, 2021, 10:37:04 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 15, 2021, 10:40:43 PM
Post by: purpletrousers on December 15, 2021, 10:45:12 PM
I’m planning to be in the ground by 2pm latest ie: parking up by 1.15pm. Far from ideal but a minor inconvenience overall. Be better if they had the lunchtime games on in the grounds or concourse - I’ve probably missed the answer already but why doesn’t this happen anymore ?
Isn't it to discourage hanging out in enclosed spaces etc? On the big screen in the stadium might be the only option, but a bit weird
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 15, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
Post by: sid1964 on December 16, 2021, 06:57:05 AM
Also will they be serving drinks / food in the concourses before the game and at half time?
If I remember correctly when we played Chelsea at the end of last season, no food or drink was available to purchase.
I will be printing off the confirmation that I have had my jabs, much easier to show the stewards, rather than trying to scroll through your phone looking for the email.
Post by: Drummond on December 16, 2021, 07:23:44 AM
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 16, 2021, 07:30:44 AM
Is it government policy that you got to register before any large event including football
Don’t think so, I guess it’s so that not everyone has to be checked, but I’m not sure how that meets the requirements set out by the Government. In the Premier league game at Chelsea my COVID status was checked.
Post by: Dave on December 16, 2021, 07:53:12 AM
Whitty telling football fans not to go to stadiums. If they really were worried why not just make the games without fans? Why they just "encouraging" people not attend?
I imagine that if Whitty were in charge of health policy then he would. But he isn't.
Post by: Lizz on December 16, 2021, 10:03:20 AM
Whitty telling football fans not to go to stadiums. If they really were worried why not just make the games without fans? Why they just "encouraging" people not attend?
I imagine that if Whitty were in charge of health policy then he would. But he isn't.
My cynical gene suspects leaving it to individuals removes government responsibility to provide any financial support to various industries.
Post by: olaftab on December 16, 2021, 10:28:07 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on December 16, 2021, 10:32:25 AM
So just asking the audience about Saturday. I am tripled jabbed and so are my neighbours around (left right below and above) the seat where I sit in North stand. I am planning not to wear a mask. Right or wrong?edit - misread your question. It's entirely up to you. It's an outdoor space and people can make their own decisions. I probably won't wear a mask either, but if I think I'm going to cough or sneeze for any reason then would put it on and be as careful as I can.
Post by: Drummond on December 16, 2021, 10:34:15 AM
Post by: not3bad on December 16, 2021, 11:03:24 AM
The LFT are such a waste of time. You can literally just register a negative test without taking the actual test then you get a text saying your negativeTo successfully record a negative LFT you have to successfully log a test ID that exists in the system.
Post by: amfy on December 16, 2021, 11:11:03 AM
The LFT are such a waste of time. You can literally just register a negative test without taking the actual test then you get a text saying your negativeTo successfully record a negative LFT you have to successfully log a test ID that exists in the system.
You do need an ID that exists, but you don’t even need to have taken the test to register a negative. Its a lot of Pfaff just to dodge the system and almost as much trouble as taking a test so you do have to be a total twat to go down this route. Still- twats gonna twat & they’ll find their way round whatever you put in.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 16, 2021, 11:21:36 AM
So just asking the audience about Saturday. I am tripled jabbed and so are my neighbours around (left right below and above) the seat where I sit in North stand. I am planning not to wear a mask. Right or wrong?
My plan of action is to wear mask in queue when coming in as everyone knows how tight the concourse is. Pretty much at the back so more of indoor feeling than if you sit in the front rows of the North stand.
When I last went at end of August hardly anyone was wearing a mask while the match was ongoing but think that will change on Saturday.
What's this registration thing all about?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 16, 2021, 11:25:06 AM
Post by: Risso on December 16, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Has anyone had the registration email yet?
Nope.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 16, 2021, 12:33:01 PM
Post by: Richard E on December 16, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
Reckon it'll be off
I'm beginning to get that feeling, I have to say.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 16, 2021, 12:42:32 PM
Reckon it'll be off
I'm beginning to get that feeling, I have to say.
Can't see it unless it's a blanket cancellation of games. Pretty sure it was said Burnley-Watford was off more so due to Watford cases and they didn't get to the ground so no mixing with Burnley players.
I can see xmas schedule being disrupted though so just a case of one less game having to be re-arranged.
Pretty likely season will have to go into middle of June I think.
Post by: Richard E on December 16, 2021, 12:47:49 PM
Post by: OCD on December 16, 2021, 12:53:32 PM
Bit early to be speculating that football might need to shut down completely like in the first lockdown.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 16, 2021, 01:17:49 PM
Too tight now I think
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 16, 2021, 01:29:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 16, 2021, 01:43:10 PM
Has anyone had the registration email yet?The email that was sent at about 5pm yesterday said:The form for Burnley will be sent over the next 24-48 hours. This must be submitted prior to three hours before kick-off. Please ensure your email address and preferences are up-to-date.
Post by: olaftab on December 16, 2021, 01:44:29 PM
Where are the pre-match protocol emails?Sent yesterday:
Too tight now I think
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/december/15/covid-19-matchday-regulations-/
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 16, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Not that one.The registration oneWhere are the pre-match protocol emails?Sent yesterday:
Too tight now I think
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/december/15/covid-19-matchday-regulations-/
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 16, 2021, 01:54:13 PM
According to the Telegraph, the Man United Covid outbreak has gone from 4 to 19 positive cases. I think our game will only be called off if there's a sudden jump in cases like that.
Bit early to be speculating that football might need to shut down completely like in the first lockdown.
It's not just the games themselves though. It's fans travelling around the country to attend games at a time when the virus is spreading more quickly than it ever has done before.
Football isn't the most important consideration here.
Post by: not3bad on December 16, 2021, 01:54:23 PM
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-burnley-covid-tickets-22479334
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 16, 2021, 02:05:26 PM
Aston Villa "In dialogue" with Burnley.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-burnley-covid-tickets-22479334
What does that mean exactly? The Premier League Board decides whether to postpone games or not.
Is a joint approach to the PL Board by clubs more powerful than individual ones?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2021, 02:22:25 PM
It means absolutely nothing. ClickbaitAston Villa "In dialogue" with Burnley.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-burnley-covid-tickets-22479334
What does that mean exactly? The Premier League Board decides whether to postpone games or not.
Is a joint approach to the PL Board by clubs more powerful than individual ones?
Post by: levico on December 16, 2021, 02:31:42 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 16, 2021, 02:44:52 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 16, 2021, 03:32:20 PM
On a related note, I went to watch the new Spider-Man film at the IMAX in Rubery yesterday. It was a pretty horrendous situation to be in tbh - A packed out audience, with around 80-85% of people not wearing masks in a small confined box - Super spreader special! :(
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 16, 2021, 03:45:58 PM
I have a feeling the rest of this year will be postponed, potentially returning to action for Brentford, or maybe FA Cup weekend. I won't lose any sleep over postponing our upcoming fixtures tbh. Far too many numpties not taking things seriously and flouting the medical recommendations (*inc. the fucktards supposedly in charge of this country).I thought it was compulsory in cinemas?
On a related note, I went to watch the new Spider-Man film at the IMAX in Rubery yesterday. It was a pretty horrendous situation to be in tbh - A packed out audience, with around 80-85% of people not wearing masks in a small confined box - Super spreader special! :(
Post by: eamonn on December 16, 2021, 03:52:43 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 16, 2021, 03:52:53 PM
Post by: London Villan on December 16, 2021, 03:58:51 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 16, 2021, 04:01:47 PM
Quote
Vaccine data collected by the EFL in November showed 75% of players were either fully vaccinated, had had a single jab or intended to be vaccinated.
In September, 49% of players in the EFL were fully vaccinated, which was up from 18% the previous month.
Absolute bellends.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59686996
Post by: Demitri_C on December 16, 2021, 04:04:34 PM
On a related note, I went to watch the new Spider-Man film at the IMAX in Rubery yesterday. It was a pretty horrendous situation to be in tbh - A packed out audience, with around 80-85% of people not wearing masks in a small confined box - Super spreader special! :(
And there my friend is why rates are out of control. People can blame the unvaccinated but its instances like this that are just as dangerous
I went on the tube and 75% had masks on while 25% didnt on a packed tube where its impossible to social distance yet people choose not to wear masks??
There was even less in tesco.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on December 16, 2021, 04:17:13 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 16, 2021, 04:30:58 PM
On a related note, I went to watch the new Spider-Man film at the IMAX in Rubery yesterday. It was a pretty horrendous situation to be in tbh - A packed out audience, with around 80-85% of people not wearing masks in a small confined box - Super spreader special! :(
And there my friend is why rates are out of control. People can blame the unvaccinated but its instances like this that are just as dangerous
I went on the tube and 75% had masks on while 25% didnt on a packed tube where its impossible to social distance yet people choose not to wear masks??
There was even less in tesco.
Sick of some people's attitudes towards all of this - Is it some kind of status symbol, like not wearing a mask makes you look well 'ard or something, when in reality, it just makes you look like a twat. I'd like to see a breakdown of the UK population on Pro-Brexit voting and non-mask wearing. I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of non-mask wearers fall into this category.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 16, 2021, 04:46:00 PM
The thought of Christmas without football. Bloody hell.
Ed Sheeran and Elton John have released a Christmas song though. Hope that helps!
Post by: Des Little on December 16, 2021, 05:16:52 PM
The thought of Christmas without football. Bloody hell.
Ed Sheeran and Elton John have released a Christmas song though. Hope that helps!
Bad news usually comes in threes...what next?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 16, 2021, 05:40:14 PM
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 16, 2021, 06:08:26 PM
The thought of Christmas without football. Bloody hell.Still puzzling how to get to Villa Park boxing day
Post by: Clampy on December 16, 2021, 06:18:25 PM
The thought of Christmas without football. Bloody hell.
Ed Sheeran and Elton John have released a Christmas song though. Hope that helps!
Bad news usually comes in threes...what next?
So have Ladbaby.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 16, 2021, 06:18:26 PM
Just had my questionnaire and completed in a minuteAre they sending them alphabetically do you think?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 16, 2021, 06:19:45 PM
Just had my questionnaire and completed in a minuteAre they sending them alphabetically do you think?
Fan ID order maybe?
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 16, 2021, 06:26:25 PM
Just had my questionnaire and completed in a minuteAre they sending them alphabetically do you think?
Benjamin Zephaniah might have to wait a while if they are.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 16, 2021, 06:31:30 PM
So just asking the audience about Saturday. I am tripled jabbed and so are my neighbours around (left right below and above) the seat where I sit in North stand. I am planning not to wear a mask. Right or wrong?edit - misread your question. It's entirely up to you. It's an outdoor space and people can make their own decisions. I probably won't wear a mask either, but if I think I'm going to cough or sneeze for any reason then would put it on and be as careful as I can.
I’ve worn a mask in the seats at every game this season.
I don’t see any reason why not to, if you’re able.
Post by: bilsim on December 16, 2021, 06:31:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 16, 2021, 06:37:50 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 16, 2021, 06:42:22 PM
I've been sent two forms for the Burnley game with different ID codes despite the fact that I have only bought one ticket. Guess I'll fill them both in but not exactly a great sign that things are working well.
If you bought a ticket for another person the other form will be theirs.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 16, 2021, 06:43:48 PM
EFL: A quarter of players not intending to get Covid-19 vaccine as more games postponedQuoteVaccine data collected by the EFL in November showed 75% of players were either fully vaccinated, had had a single jab or intended to be vaccinated.
In September, 49% of players in the EFL were fully vaccinated, which was up from 18% the previous month.
Absolute bellends.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59686996
This is another of the occasions when my liberal/lefty attitude goes out the window. Name all the idiots who don’t have a genuine medical reason not to get vaccinated.
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 16, 2021, 06:56:03 PM
Post by: yammers on December 16, 2021, 06:58:40 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 16, 2021, 06:58:42 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 16, 2021, 07:04:29 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 16, 2021, 07:05:36 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 16, 2021, 07:18:07 PM
If it does happen, any new signings should be ineligible for the rearranged fixtures, similar to when loan players come up against their parent clubs.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 16, 2021, 07:18:11 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 16, 2021, 07:25:35 PM
Villa still on at the moment
Post by: BlackCountryVilla on December 16, 2021, 07:28:14 PM
Post by: andyh on December 16, 2021, 07:37:10 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on December 16, 2021, 07:37:24 PM
Just had my questionnaire and completed in a minuteAre they sending them alphabetically do you think?
Don’t think so, my son had his but I’ve not had anything.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 16, 2021, 07:38:45 PM
Post by: Gary Penrice on December 16, 2021, 07:40:07 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 16, 2021, 07:51:14 PM
Post by: Chris Harte on December 16, 2021, 08:02:00 PM
I can't get in to the Covid pre-registration thingy and will most likely miss the game anyway due to work.
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 16, 2021, 08:03:11 PM
Post by: BlackCountryVilla on December 16, 2021, 08:06:37 PM
Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
I can't get in to the Covid pre-registration thingy and will most likely miss the game anyway due to work.
Exactly. It is a risk no doubt about it.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 16, 2021, 08:07:21 PM
Just hope if decision is made to call things off they announce it tonight or early tomorrow. None of this nonsense at 1pm on Saturday when many fans will already be travelling to the game.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2021, 08:07:25 PM
Post by: usav on December 16, 2021, 08:11:10 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 16, 2021, 08:11:31 PM
Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
Which is precisely why I'd like the Premier League to just postpone all the games this weekend.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 16, 2021, 08:16:29 PM
That's far too sensible and altruistic for the greedy b'stards! Will be interesting to see the attendances of all the games in all divisions that will happen this weekend: I bet a lot of people will stay away precisely because they don't want to ruin Christmas for themselves. I'm 50-50 at the moment, as the Burnley game could be the last one we can go to for ages: it's still a risk, despite having the booster last week.Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
Which is precisely why I'd like the Premier League to just postpone all the games this weekend.
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2021, 08:17:58 PM
That's far too sensible and altruistic for the greedy b'stards! Will be interesting to see the attendances of all the games in all divisions that will happen this weekend: I bet a lot of people will stay away precisely because they don't want to ruin Christmas for themselves.Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
Which is precisely why I'd like the Premier League to just postpone all the games this weekend.
Attendances won't be affected much but the numbers attending would be interesting to know.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 16, 2021, 08:19:26 PM
:DThat's far too sensible and altruistic for the greedy b'stards! Will be interesting to see the attendances of all the games in all divisions that will happen this weekend: I bet a lot of people will stay away precisely because they don't want to ruin Christmas for themselves.Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
Which is precisely why I'd like the Premier League to just postpone all the games this weekend.
Attendances won't be affected much but the numbers attending would be interesting to know.
Post by: Ad@m on December 16, 2021, 08:21:51 PM
That's far too sensible and altruistic for the greedy b'stards! Will be interesting to see the attendances of all the games in all divisions that will happen this weekend: I bet a lot of people will stay away precisely because they don't want to ruin Christmas for themselves.Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
Which is precisely why I'd like the Premier League to just postpone all the games this weekend.
Attendances won't be affected much but the numbers attending would be interesting to know.
They'd have been affected in Herbert's day!!!
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2021, 08:29:15 PM
Post by: Des Little on December 16, 2021, 08:31:06 PM
Post by: yammers on December 16, 2021, 08:33:20 PM
Post by: thick_mike on December 16, 2021, 08:35:24 PM
Post by: Chris Harte on December 16, 2021, 08:42:03 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2021, 08:42:55 PM
I heard a concert promoter on the news last week talking about the time taken to check before entering and he said that they didn’t check everyone, just a random selection. Whether that would still be the case now I don’t knowthere is not a chance that they can check everyone,
They would need between 750 and 1000 inspectors.
So my guess is they will be lucky to check 10% of those attending.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on December 16, 2021, 08:44:23 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on December 16, 2021, 09:04:36 PM
That's far too sensible and altruistic for the greedy b'stards! Will be interesting to see the attendances of all the games in all divisions that will happen this weekend: I bet a lot of people will stay away precisely because they don't want to ruin Christmas for themselves.Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
Which is precisely why I'd like the Premier League to just postpone all the games this weekend.
Attendances won't be affected much but the numbers attending would be interesting to know.
They'd have been affected in Herbert's day!!!
Herbert would never have understood money laundering.
Post by: Ad@m on December 16, 2021, 09:12:51 PM
That's far too sensible and altruistic for the greedy b'stards! Will be interesting to see the attendances of all the games in all divisions that will happen this weekend: I bet a lot of people will stay away precisely because they don't want to ruin Christmas for themselves.Just thinking if you go to the game you could wreck your Christmas. All it takes is a positive test result.
Which is precisely why I'd like the Premier League to just postpone all the games this weekend.
Attendances won't be affected much but the numbers attending would be interesting to know.
They'd have been affected in Herbert's day!!!
Herbert would never have understood money laundering.
He understood quite a lot when it involved making himself more money.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 16, 2021, 10:01:27 PM
I heard a concert promoter on the news last week talking about the time taken to check before entering and he said that they didn’t check everyone, just a random selection. Whether that would still be the case now I don’t know
I actually went to see Enter Shikari at the academy last night (I know I know but haven't been to a gig in over two years so just frustrating new variant shows its ugly face and I was wearing a mask as I moved around) and had to show covid passport in the pre checks. But I turned up just before 8pm so first band was pretty much finishing so no idea how long the queue was before it started.
Hopefully they have the covid checkers well before turnstiles for at least North stand as took a while for my actual ticket to load up given I have both on my phone, think I'll just print out the passport for future games.
That would probably be a better idea to get a quicker flow of people coming in.
Post by: andyh on December 16, 2021, 10:09:01 PM
What about none ST holders, how are they being notified about completing a form ?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 16, 2021, 10:56:06 PM
Obviously season ticket holders have been notified in advance and we (will) have filled in our declarations.
What about none ST holders, how are they being notified about completing a form ?
I had an email come through today Andy and have just completed it OK.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 16, 2021, 11:15:25 PM
Reckon it'll be off
I'm beginning to get that feeling, I have to say.
Can't see it unless it's a blanket cancellation of games. Pretty sure it was said Burnley-Watford was off more so due to Watford cases and they didn't get to the ground so no mixing with Burnley players.
I can see xmas schedule being disrupted though so just a case of one less game having to be re-arranged.
Pretty likely season will have to go into middle of June I think.
Nations Cup is due to be played then. The timing of the World Cup next year means scheduling is going to be tight.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 16, 2021, 11:58:28 PM
Reckon it'll be off
I'm beginning to get that feeling, I have to say.
Can't see it unless it's a blanket cancellation of games. Pretty sure it was said Burnley-Watford was off more so due to Watford cases and they didn't get to the ground so no mixing with Burnley players.
I can see xmas schedule being disrupted though so just a case of one less game having to be re-arranged.
Pretty likely season will have to go into middle of June I think.
Nations Cup is due to be played then. The timing of the World Cup next year means scheduling is going to be tight.
Nations league is complete waste of time, surely that can be played summer 2023?
Trouble is going into middle of June and new season kicks off start of August so going to be hardly any rest again for the players.
Post by: sid1964 on December 17, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
What is the latest time that the game can be postponed?
Post by: Towser on December 17, 2021, 07:29:22 AM
Listening to Dyche interview he wants the game to go aheadThe Burnley game in the week was postponed when the players were already in the ground eating their pre match meal.
What is the latest time that the game can be postponed?
Post by: Nev on December 17, 2021, 07:36:33 AM
Perhaps our manager and his opposite number will now see our game as an opportunity to steal a march on other teams?
I still think it will be off though...
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2021, 07:37:46 AM
If you wanted any further evidence of how Pro footballers think.
Post by: not3bad on December 17, 2021, 10:13:52 AM
The EFL has revealed that only 59% of players are double jabbed, I would guess the numbers are similar or worse for the PL.
Weird when you think they work in an industry where being at the peak of physical health is kind of important.
Post by: villabear on December 17, 2021, 10:36:39 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 17, 2021, 10:50:33 AM
Compliance form submitted. Quick and easy.
Yes mine went without a hitch too.
Post by: darren woolley on December 17, 2021, 11:19:28 AM
Compliance form submitted. Quick and easy.
Yes mine went without a hitch too.
Mine too.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2021, 11:38:20 AM
Let's face it - It's Burnley. I certainly won't lose any sleep if this one gets postponed.
Personally, I'm fairly confident I'd be okay if I caught the 'rona (but you never know), but with Christmas and family gatherings just a matter of days away, is this not a recipe for disaster?
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 17, 2021, 11:43:59 AM
With infection numbers rising astronomically, 42K people, 95-99% mostly maskless crammed into Villa Park (based on matches so far this season) and more worryingly, the concourse.... Is anyone as concerned as I am that the match going ahead is a really bad idea?
Let's face it - It's Burnley. I certainly won't lose any sleep if this one gets postponed.
Personally, I'm fairly confident I'd be okay if I caught the 'rona (but you never know), but with Christmas and family gatherings just a matter of days away, is this not a recipe for disaster?
It may well be postponed but having missed the last 2 home games due to having Covid of course I'll be disappointed if it doesn't go ahead.
Our normal pre match pint has been ditched and I'll be wearing a mask in the concourse areas so will be doing my bit but I accept that we're dealing with human beings some of which are knobheads.
Post by: Flin5tone on December 17, 2021, 11:45:42 AM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 17, 2021, 11:52:38 AM
It should be FULL Vaccination AND a negative test as fully jabbed can still spread the virus . Does not make sense
You do know that shouting makes it easier for the virus to spread?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 17, 2021, 11:56:22 AM
With infection numbers rising astronomically, 42K people, 95-99% mostly maskless crammed into Villa Park (based on matches so far this season) and more worryingly, the concourse.... Is anyone as concerned as I am that the match going ahead is a really bad idea?
Let's face it - It's Burnley. I certainly won't lose any sleep if this one gets postponed.
Personally, I'm fairly confident I'd be okay if I caught the 'rona (but you never know), but with Christmas and family gatherings just a matter of days away, is this not a recipe for disaster?
Yes I understand this point, I’m having a good think about what to, probably just go straight to the match.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2021, 11:58:58 AM
Masks in the concourse isn't workable either - Most fans are in there to eat and drink, so masks won't be worn there either?!
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2021, 12:08:37 PM
I guess they are subject to all the stuff on Social Media, they are sheep like as well. If say Ronaldo and KDB said we have been fully vaxed they would be queuing up for a jab.The EFL has revealed that only 59% of players are double jabbed, I would guess the numbers are similar or worse for the PL.
Weird when you think they work in an industry where being at the peak of physical health is kind of important.
Post by: john e on December 17, 2021, 12:10:46 PM
With infection numbers rising astronomically, 42K people, 95-99% mostly maskless crammed into Villa Park (based on matches so far this season) and more worryingly, the concourse.... Is anyone as concerned as I am that the match going ahead is a really bad idea?
Let's face it - It's Burnley. I certainly won't lose any sleep if this one gets postponed.
Personally, I'm fairly confident I'd be okay if I caught the 'rona (but you never know), but with Christmas and family gatherings just a matter of days away, is this not a recipe for disaster?
It’s a weird thing because me and my wife caught it when it first came out before all the vaccines and stuff
And I ticked a lot of boxes for getting it bad
Mild asthmatic
Overweight
Unhealthy lifestyle
Old
High blood pressure etc
Yet I didn’t feel too bad yet my wife who is the opposite of all the things above,
Well apart from the overweight one which in fairness and there’s no getting away from it she is a bit plumpish,
Got it so bad I thought she was going to Die
But the good news is she made a full recovery and doesn’t read this site
Post by: Smithy on December 17, 2021, 12:23:07 PM
I guess they are subject to all the stuff on Social Media, they are sheep like as well. If say Ronaldo and KDB said we have been fully vaxed they would be queuing up for a jab.The EFL has revealed that only 59% of players are double jabbed, I would guess the numbers are similar or worse for the PL.
Weird when you think they work in an industry where being at the peak of physical health is kind of important.
The problem in this day and age is that if a pro footballer - particularly one at the very top end - came out and said "I've been double jabbed and boosted, and you should too" - there will be elements that then go over every single element of every game they play looking for signs it has affected them negatively, and an angle to use to claim the vaccine as being higher risk than getting Covid.
"Did you know they ran 5% less distance per match after being vaccinated? It must have affected him."
"He creates HALF the number of chances since he was vaccinated. It must have affected him."
"He hasn't scored since he had the booster. It must have affected him." etc etc etc.
This is the problem with fake news, it needs no basis in reality, but a player voluntarily sharing that type of information could give them loads of material to work with. So I do understand their reluctance.
Imagine, if you will, that Jack Grealish came out and said "I got jabbed in the summer, and you should all get the jab too". The Internet would explode with conspiracy theories insisting he's not the player he was because of the vaccine. And what's worse, plenty of people would believe it.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2021, 12:23:34 PM
With infection numbers rising astronomically, 42K people, 95-99% mostly maskless crammed into Villa Park (based on matches so far this season) and more worryingly, the concourse.... Is anyone as concerned as I am that the match going ahead is a really bad idea?
Let's face it - It's Burnley. I certainly won't lose any sleep if this one gets postponed.
Personally, I'm fairly confident I'd be okay if I caught the 'rona (but you never know), but with Christmas and family gatherings just a matter of days away, is this not a recipe for disaster?
It’s a weird thing because me and my wife caught it when it first came out before all the vaccines and stuff
And I ticked a lot of boxes for getting it bad
Mild asthmatic
Overweight
Unhealthy lifestyle
Old
High blood pressure etc
Yet I didn’t feel too bad yet my wife who is the opposite of all the things above,
Well apart from the overweight one which in fairness and there’s no getting away from it she is a bit plumpish,
Got it so bad I thought she was going to Die
But the good news is she made a full recovery and doesn’t read this site
Ha - You're in trouble if she does read it John! ;)
That's the worrying element about it all.... This virus is a fucker and isn't fussy who it takes down. Even vaccinated people can still catch it, and if a number of fans rock up at Villa Park who are asymptomatic (*or even symptomatic, but don't give a shit about other people... and as we know, there are quite a few of those in this country!), spreading it around 42K people is going to ruin A LOT of Christmasses.
The Premier League should be stepping in here, imo. Knock it on the head till FA Cup weekend and extend the season by a month. Job done.
Post by: Ad@m on December 17, 2021, 12:33:16 PM
It's almost impossible to contain it at a football match. With everyone so packed into the stands, there's no way that it's not going to spread.
Masks in the concourse isn't workable either - Most fans are in there to eat and drink, so masks won't be worn there either?!
Next time you're at the ground, have a look around the concourse at how many are actually eating or drinking at any one time. It's well below 50% but mask wearing is around 0.001%.
Post by: Lucky Eddie on December 17, 2021, 12:34:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 17, 2021, 12:37:47 PM
Quote
Premier League clubs will meet on Monday to discuss the escalating crisis around the coronavirus pandemic.
Looks like the games that are still on for this weekend will go ahead. The Premier League clubs aren't even meeting to discuss the situation until Monday
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2021, 12:45:40 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 17, 2021, 12:50:40 PM
Ridiculous. THIS weekend is the one that should be halted - Christmas is fucked for anyone that catches it tomorrow.... *as well as at least one of our players who will almost certainly be out for a season after facing those fecking animals!All the more reason to have it behind closed doors to fulfill the fixture if there's enough fit players on both sides. As I said in a previous post, I wonder how many people will go. I'm 50-50 still, but I will decide once I've seen the PCR-confirmed omricon figures for the West Midlands later. As much as I love Villa, I love my family more!
Post by: Flin5tone on December 17, 2021, 01:26:49 PM
I'm actually expecting many empty seats tomorrow with hassle of Vaccine/Test putting many off and those who are worried about the virus staying away. As mentioned above the concourse is crowded with nobody wearing masks and 60% of people not eating or drinking and those that are usually frustrated after the long wait to be served . They should close all catering and allow supporters to bring their own food and drink if really needed.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2021, 02:12:38 PM
Based on some of the replies, I’ll be staying well away from villa park tomorrow…. as it will be mostly full of fucking selfish brain dead idiots.
Post by: mcgrath_85 on December 17, 2021, 02:31:11 PM
No need to postpone the match.
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 17, 2021, 02:41:18 PM
If you don’t want to go and risk catching it, then don’t go. If you’re happy to take the risk then go.
No need to postpone the match.
It's clear from Steven Gerrard's press conference just now that although we're OK to play as things stand that this could quickly change.
Fingers crossed but I'm still not sure that this is going to happen.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2021, 02:48:47 PM
If you don’t want to go and risk catching it, then don’t go. If you’re happy to take the risk then go.Yes there is…. There are a lot of season ticket holders worried about theirs/their families health, who have paid for the match and want to watch the game.
No need to postpone the match.
We shouldn’t have to make that choice… the premier league are the custodians of the safety of the players and fans, and they’re dropping a Boris level bollock in this instance imo.
Think back to Cheltenham Races at the start of the pandemic…. This is a similar clusterfuck waiting to happen.
There’s already half the league with a backlog of fixtures, so delaying the remaining games by weekend or two would make hardly any difference and keep EVERYONE safe.
Post by: Flin5tone on December 17, 2021, 02:59:50 PM
If you don’t want to go and risk catching it, then don’t go. If you’re happy to take the risk then go.Yes there is…. There are a lot of season ticket holders worried about theirs/their families health, who have paid for the match and want to watch the game.
No need to postpone the match.
We shouldn’t have to make that choice… the premier league are the custodians of the safety of the players and fans, and they’re dropping a Boris level bollock in this instance imo.
Think back to Cheltenham Races at the start of the pandemic…. This is a similar clusterfuck waiting to happen.
There’s already half the league with a backlog of fixtures, so delaying the remaining games by weekend or two would make hardly any difference and keep EVERYONE safe.
Cheltenham was a disaster event along with Liverpool V Madrid (I think) both super spreader events
I wish I was sat in the Trinity Road or Doug Ellis upper tomorrow where people tend to behave a little better
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2021, 03:01:32 PM
Post by: mcgrath_85 on December 17, 2021, 03:10:44 PM
If you don’t want to go and risk catching it, then don’t go. If you’re happy to take the risk then go.Yes there is…. There are a lot of season ticket holders worried about theirs/their families health, who have paid for the match and want to watch the game.
No need to postpone the match.
We shouldn’t have to make that choice… the premier league are the custodians of the safety of the players and fans, and they’re dropping a Boris level bollock in this instance imo.
Think back to Cheltenham Races at the start of the pandemic…. This is a similar clusterfuck waiting to happen.
There’s already half the league with a backlog of fixtures, so delaying the remaining games by weekend or two would make hardly any difference and keep EVERYONE safe.
Cheltenham was a disaster event along with Liverpool V Madrid (I think) both super spreader events
I wish I was sat in the Trinity Road or Doug Ellis upper tomorrow where people tend to behave a little better
Sounds like you should give it a miss Nil and let others do as they please.
Comparing it to pre pandemic Cheltenham is a bit dramatic isn't it?!
Post by: Drummond on December 17, 2021, 03:11:03 PM
Nii but it is still their choice. No one is being forced to go to the match.
They've already paid, expecting to be in a safe environment. That last bit is important.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2021, 03:15:49 PM
Summed up better than I managed! On the money Drummond. 👍🏼Nii but it is still their choice. No one is being forced to go to the match.
They've already paid, expecting to be in a safe environment. That last bit is important.
Post by: darren woolley on December 17, 2021, 03:31:23 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2021, 04:07:48 PM
They paid for tickets or season tickets in the middle of a pandemic, how could they expect that a 100% safe environment would be guaranteed.Summed up better than I managed! On the money Drummond. 👍🏼Nii but it is still their choice. No one is being forced to go to the match.
They've already paid, expecting to be in a safe environment. That last bit is important.
Suggest you check the conditions of purchase.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
I'm fully vaccinated so I will be going.Enjoy the match mate.
But just so you know, I am fully vaccinated and wont be going because I have tested positive.
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 17, 2021, 04:10:09 PM
A bit later Journo receives a text from a friend telling him that the Leicester game was off. Journo pops back into Jon Moss' record shop on the off-chance and Jon Moss is packing his car up to head off.
He had no idea.
What chance have we got?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 17, 2021, 04:11:05 PM
I'm fully vaccinated so I will be going.
Fair play, I’m a season ticket holder, fully vaccinated with a booster, at the moment I am 60/40 going, but not the sacred heart, where I normally go as that is to busy, maybe German Market for a pint in the fresh air.
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2021, 04:11:46 PM
Just read a telling anecdote on the Guardian's website whereby a Guardian journo said he'd visited Jon Moss' record shop in Leeds and JM said he was about to leave to head to Leicester to ref the Leicester - Tottenham game.
A bit later Journo receives a text from a friend telling him that the Leicester game was off. Journo pops back into Jon Moss' record shop on the off-chance and Jon Moss is packing his car up to head off.
He had no idea.
What chance have we got?
He comes and goes.
Post by: darren woolley on December 17, 2021, 04:18:00 PM
I'm fully vaccinated so I will be going.Enjoy the match mate.
But just so you know, I am fully vaccinated and wont be going because I have tested positive.
Get better soon mate.
Post by: Clampy on December 17, 2021, 04:19:20 PM
Just read a telling anecdote on the Guardian's website whereby a Guardian journo said he'd visited Jon Moss' record shop in Leeds and JM said he was about to leave to head to Leicester to ref the Leicester - Tottenham game.
A bit later Journo receives a text from a friend telling him that the Leicester game was off. Journo pops back into Jon Moss' record shop on the off-chance and Jon Moss is packing his car up to head off.
He had no idea.
What chance have we got?
He comes and goes.
Every day is like survival.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2021, 04:22:32 PM
Thanks.I'm fully vaccinated so I will be going.Enjoy the match mate.
But just so you know, I am fully vaccinated and wont be going because I have tested positive.
Get better soon mate.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 17, 2021, 04:25:09 PM
👏👏👏Just read a telling anecdote on the Guardian's website whereby a Guardian journo said he'd visited Jon Moss' record shop in Leeds and JM said he was about to leave to head to Leicester to ref the Leicester - Tottenham game.
A bit later Journo receives a text from a friend telling him that the Leicester game was off. Journo pops back into Jon Moss' record shop on the off-chance and Jon Moss is packing his car up to head off.
He had no idea.
What chance have we got?
He comes and goes.
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 17, 2021, 04:39:28 PM
👏👏👏Just read a telling anecdote on the Guardian's website whereby a Guardian journo said he'd visited Jon Moss' record shop in Leeds and JM said he was about to leave to head to Leicester to ref the Leicester - Tottenham game.
A bit later Journo receives a text from a friend telling him that the Leicester game was off. Journo pops back into Jon Moss' record shop on the off-chance and Jon Moss is packing his car up to head off.
He had no idea.
What chance have we got?
He comes and goes.
Ha, ha, I was thinking that Risso's was one of the more enigmatic postings and then..... The penny dropped!
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 17, 2021, 05:28:35 PM
With infection numbers rising astronomically, 42K people, 95-99% mostly maskless crammed into Villa Park (based on matches so far this season) and more worryingly, the concourse.... Is anyone as concerned as I am that the match going ahead is a really bad idea?
Let's face it - It's Burnley. I certainly won't lose any sleep if this one gets postponed.
Personally, I'm fairly confident I'd be okay if I caught the 'rona (but you never know), but with Christmas and family gatherings just a matter of days away, is this not a recipe for disaster?
It’s a weird thing because me and my wife caught it when it first came out before all the vaccines and stuff
And I ticked a lot of boxes for getting it bad
Mild asthmatic
Overweight
Unhealthy lifestyle
Old
High blood pressure etc
Yet I didn’t feel too bad yet my wife who is the opposite of all the things above,
Well apart from the overweight one which in fairness and there’s no getting away from it she is a bit plumpish,
Got it so bad I thought she was going to Die
But the good news is she made a full recovery and doesn’t read this site
Haha, hilarious.
Post by: Drummond on December 17, 2021, 05:39:07 PM
They paid for tickets or season tickets in the middle of a pandemic, how could they expect that a 100% safe environment would be guaranteed.Summed up better than I managed! On the money Drummond. 👍🏼Nii but it is still their choice. No one is being forced to go to the match.
They've already paid, expecting to be in a safe environment. That last bit is important.
Suggest you check the conditions of purchase.
Because when this shit got bad before, people were refunded and games were stopped. And there weren't so many people being dicks and not wearing masks. Because most people, even the dicks were a bit scared.
Anyway, I hope, despite testing positive, that it doesn't get you too bad. And thanks for not being a dick. :-)
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2021, 06:09:40 PM
But people bought tickets under different conditions then, but I do understand that people that are rightfully concerned about getting it will miss out.They paid for tickets or season tickets in the middle of a pandemic, how could they expect that a 100% safe environment would be guaranteed.Summed up better than I managed! On the money Drummond. 👍🏼Nii but it is still their choice. No one is being forced to go to the match.
They've already paid, expecting to be in a safe environment. That last bit is important.
Suggest you check the conditions of purchase.
Because when this shit got bad before, people were refunded and games were stopped. And there weren't so many people being dicks and not wearing masks. Because most people, even the dicks were a bit scared.
Anyway, I hope, despite testing positive, that it doesn't get you too bad. And thanks for not being a dick. :-)
Thanks for the good wishes.
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2021, 06:20:45 PM
Post by: johnc on December 18, 2021, 01:04:10 AM
Nobody was vaccinated before the first lockdown and league shutdown. And at the last game, Leciester away, nobody was wearing a mask.And at the last game Leicester home there weren't many y wearing a.mask!
Post by: Villan82 on December 18, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
I am thinking, here of Newcastle. They are as good as down, deservedly, and it would be grossly unfair if they got an unfair advantage out of going into the Transfer Window with more points still available than there should be.
I hope the league are looking at this issue.
Post by: martin o`who?? on December 18, 2021, 10:02:15 AM
Incidentally I honestly think I caught it at the Brighton game. The only place I was with people for hours and didn't wear a mask - any other time I'm full-on careful.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 18, 2021, 10:45:08 AM
There are 25% of footballers refusing to get jabbed which Arteta has said clubs may have to start treating them differently for the safety of every one else.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 18, 2021, 11:06:03 AM
Both true, but this was before the far more contagious Omricon variant began to take off into the stratosphere, in the lead up to Christmas...Nobody was vaccinated before the first lockdown and league shutdown. And at the last game, Leciester away, nobody was wearing a mask.And at the last game Leicester home there weren't many y wearing a.mask!
Reading some of the posts here, big hugs to everyone who's gone down with it and anyone else at the moment who'll have to isolate over Christmas Day. Get well soon. XXX
Post by: Ad@m on December 18, 2021, 11:13:39 AM
If there is any circuit breaker type cancellation of 2-3 games, then the January transfer window should also be delayed until those games have been played and extended appropriately into February.
I am thinking, here of Newcastle. They are as good as down, deservedly, and it would be grossly unfair if they got an unfair advantage out of going into the Transfer Window with more points still available than there should be.
I hope the league are looking at this issue.
I see what you're saying but there's no chance they'll move the transfer window.
The same logic you're applying to Newcastle could've been applied to us two seasons ago - we were going down without so much of a whimper until the season got suspended. Deano then spent 3 months teaching the players how to defend and we stayed up by the skin of our teeth.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 18, 2021, 11:22:21 AM
If there is any circuit breaker type cancellation of 2-3 games, then the January transfer window should also be delayed until those games have been played and extended appropriately into February.
I am thinking, here of Newcastle. They are as good as down, deservedly, and it would be grossly unfair if they got an unfair advantage out of going into the Transfer Window with more points still available than there should be.
I hope the league are looking at this issue.
I see what you're saying but there's no chance they'll move the transfer window.
The same logic you're applying to Newcastle could've been applied to us two seasons ago - we were going down without so much of a whimper until the season got suspended. Deano then spent 3 months teaching the players how to defend and we stayed up by the skin of our teeth.
With my cynical hat on I’d say that the PL, as opposed to the clubs, would prefer to keep the Newcastle billions in the league.
Post by: Ad@m on December 18, 2021, 11:49:33 AM
The only way the Premier League could influence that would be to suspend the season now, which they seem reluctant to do. But even then, I'm guessing that with the Nations League happening in the summer, they could only suspend the season if they had a plan to finish at the same time.
Post by: not3bad on December 18, 2021, 12:47:12 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1472184991614390273?s=20
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 18, 2021, 01:03:13 PM
2 hour notice from kickoff is an absolute disgrace!
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 01:15:29 PM
Not Villa specific, as no idea what our vaccination rate is. Also clearly if they’ve got some medical issue that prevents them having the vaccine that’s different.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 18, 2021, 01:23:10 PM
In light of the poor vaccine take up by pro footballers I’m kind of in the space that they can absolutely have a choice but that choice comes with consequences. If you choose not to get vaccinated you’re creating additional risk to your colleagues and wider society so the consequence is you don’t train and play and you also don’t get paid. No idea if legally that can be done, but football is way behind other sports in other countries.I doubt the contracts allow for that. But the clubs may have to start segregating vaxed from non vaxed players to limit contagion.
Not Villa specific, as no idea what our vaccination rate is. Also clearly if they’ve got some medical issue that prevents them having the vaccine that’s different.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 18, 2021, 01:34:21 PM
Weekend’s fixtures should have been shut down by the premier league yesterday imo. I wasn’t going today as none of us would have been safe with current infection rate, but gutted for all the fans who are en route, or are already there.
2 hour notice from kickoff is an absolute disgrace!
As soon as it was announced that half the games were off, they should have pulled all the fixtures for this weekend, but I guess they probably wanted to salvage some games for TV.and so we end up with this disgrace where a game is called off a few hours before kick off.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 18, 2021, 01:36:49 PM
but the club should have had the tests back earlier to avoid a 2 hour pre match cancellationWeekend’s fixtures should have been shut down by the premier league yesterday imo. I wasn’t going today as none of us would have been safe with current infection rate, but gutted for all the fans who are en route, or are already there.
2 hour notice from kickoff is an absolute disgrace!
As soon as it was announced that half the games were off, they should have pulled all the fixtures for this weekend, but I guess they probably wanted to salvage some games for TV.and so we end up with this disgrace where a game is called off a few hours before kick off.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 18, 2021, 01:50:33 PM
In light of the poor vaccine take up by pro footballers I’m kind of in the space that they can absolutely have a choice but that choice comes with consequences. If you choose not to get vaccinated you’re creating additional risk to your colleagues and wider society so the consequence is you don’t train and play and you also don’t get paid. No idea if legally that can be done, but football is way behind other sports in other countries.I doubt the contracts allow for that. But the clubs may have to start segregating vaxed from non vaxed players to limit contagion.
Not Villa specific, as no idea what our vaccination rate is. Also clearly if they’ve got some medical issue that prevents them having the vaccine that’s different.
According to Stelling on SSN that’s what they do in Germany. Unvaxxed players with Covid don’t get paid.
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 18, 2021, 02:30:06 PM
Post by: brontebilly on December 18, 2021, 02:36:49 PM
In light of the poor vaccine take up by pro footballers I’m kind of in the space that they can absolutely have a choice but that choice comes with consequences. If you choose not to get vaccinated you’re creating additional risk to your colleagues and wider society so the consequence is you don’t train and play and you also don’t get paid. No idea if legally that can be done, but football is way behind other sports in other countries.
Not Villa specific, as no idea what our vaccination rate is. Also clearly if they’ve got some medical issue that prevents them having the vaccine that’s different.
Id like to see the likes of Gerrard publicly backing Klopp's stance on encouraging players and supporters to get the vaccine/booster. Some leading players too, not just Villa.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 18, 2021, 05:12:52 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 18, 2021, 06:56:36 PM
League now going to make the League Cup Quarter Finals one off games. Also going to completely scrap FA Cup replays. Also considering binning off the break scheduled for end of January.
Not for good, one would hope.
The minnow-gets-big-club-at-home-pay-out-day story is too central to the competition.
Post by: Chris Harte on December 18, 2021, 07:02:28 PM
Maybe they should do as they do (or did) in Italy for cup games. If a team from a lower division is drawn to a team from Serie A, the team from the lower division automatically gets home advantage for the tie, regardless of what order they are drawn in.League now going to make the League Cup Quarter Finals one off games. Also going to completely scrap FA Cup replays. Also considering binning off the break scheduled for end of January.
Not for good, one would hope.
The minnow-gets-big-club-at-home-pay-out-day story is too central to the competition.
Post by: London Villan on December 18, 2021, 07:19:12 PM
Post by: frank black on December 18, 2021, 07:35:12 PM
The delay came from the premier league, not the club.
Yep , apparently the club asked them to pp this morning (after test results). The PL took their time.
Post by: john2710 on December 18, 2021, 09:13:39 PM
It won't just be unvaccinated players that are testing positive or bringing covid into the squad. I know people triple vaccinated, who've had covid previously, who now have it again. Thankfully it's much milder. But we can't assume unvaccinated players are the ones testing positive.
Post by: Ad@m on December 18, 2021, 09:19:08 PM
Post by: ozzjim on December 18, 2021, 10:52:25 PM
My biggest concern is who has it, that they are ok, and how much this affects us. Last season it killed our season, the players looked knackered and we looked genuinely like we'd lost fitness. I had covid 6 weeks ago and am still 10% off my output when exercising 4-5 times a week, I just tire so much faster. I know they are younger and much, much fitter, but 2-3% is still huge at the level they play at.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 19, 2021, 02:20:09 AM
League now going to make the League Cup Quarter Finals one off games. Also going to completely scrap FA Cup replays. Also considering binning off the break scheduled for end of January.
Aren't LC quarter-finals one-off games anyway?
Post by: Villafirst on December 19, 2021, 05:04:11 AM
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 19, 2021, 06:48:15 AM
League now going to make the League Cup Quarter Finals one off games. Also going to completely scrap FA Cup replays. Also considering binning off the break scheduled for end of January.
Aren't LC quarter-finals one-off games anyway?
Guess it’s the semi finals
Post by: Demitri_C on December 19, 2021, 09:10:51 AM
I mean 3 games called off is going to be hell for all pl teams. Injuries are going to be catastrophic
Post by: Lucky Eddie on December 19, 2021, 09:38:40 AM
And that was when footballers were men rather than athletes and football pitches were dangerous.
There's no good reason not to have started a three week break two days ago.
Post by: Richard E on December 19, 2021, 09:42:20 AM
Chelsea games gonna be called off but the leeds game should happen shouldnt it?
I mean 3 games called off is going to be hell for all pl teams. Injuries are going to be catastrophic
I really hope the Leeds game happens, because they’re absolutely pony at the moment.
Post by: john e on December 19, 2021, 09:47:50 AM
The delay came from the premier league, not the club.
Yep , apparently the club asked them to pp this morning (after test results). The PL took their time.
But they knew it was in the balance
So why were we getting emails yesterday morning telling us how Gerald was going to shape up
Everything they said and did was that the game was going ahead even on that very morning
when all the time they knew that was a good chance of them being called off because of the PCR tests
I don’t care what anyone says The club wasn’t Totally innocent in this and could have handled it better
I’m annoyed for the travelling fans on both sides as even people on here predicted what was going to happen but they don’t give a shit do they
Not me as it happens I wasn’t going and was letting my tickets go to waste so I’m actually better off With it being called off But that’s not the point
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2021, 10:32:47 AM
It's 95% the Premier League's fault, but then it's not like the club explicitly said "as things stand we've got enough players to play, but everybody is taking PCR tests daily, so if the results come through on Saturday morning there's no guarantee we'll still have enough players."
Whole things is an absoute clusterfuck.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 19, 2021, 10:40:53 AM
Each and every game at the moment hangs in the balance for each and every club.
Post by: Ads on December 19, 2021, 11:05:49 AM
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2021, 11:16:22 AM
If they can call the Boxing Day fixture early I'd appreciate it, so I can enjoy a few more sherbets than I normal do Christmas Day.
They need to call them off on Monday. Nowhere is easy to get to thanks to rubbish public transport, even with relatively close matches, and ours is on at a shit enough time as it is.
Post by: amfy on December 19, 2021, 11:50:40 AM
Buendia tweeted in the morning "Game on!"
It's 95% the Premier League's fault, but then it's not like the club explicitly said "as things stand we've got enough players to play, but everybody is taking PCR tests daily, so if the results come through on Saturday morning there's no guarantee we'll still have enough players."
Whole things is an absoute clusterfuck.
Didn’t Gerard say pretty much exactly that in his press conference, & isn’t that absolutely obvious anyway. They are testing daily, on any given day there can be a number of additional positive tests. The timings and processing will be set by the PL who should have called this game off when it was one of only 2 still on - it was pretty obvious where we were headed.
…& I certainly did set out from the north with half a mind that the game could be called off before we got there, because it had already happened to another game in the week.
Post by: john e on December 19, 2021, 12:00:40 PM
If there isn't a firm decision from the Premier League then I'm not sure what else the club could have done.
Each and every game at the moment hangs in the balance for each and every club.
Not sending out emails and social media posts bigging up the game the same morning it was hanging in the balance would have been a start
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 19, 2021, 12:01:51 PM
Buendia tweeted in the morning "Game on!"
It's 95% the Premier League's fault, but then it's not like the club explicitly said "as things stand we've got enough players to play, but everybody is taking PCR tests daily, so if the results come through on Saturday morning there's no guarantee we'll still have enough players."
Whole things is an absoute clusterfuck.
Didn’t Gerard say pretty much exactly that in his press conference, & isn’t that absolutely obvious anyway. They are testing daily, on any given day there can be a number of additional positive tests. The timings and processing will be set by the PL who should have called this game off when it was one of only 2 still on - it was pretty obvious where we were headed.
…& I certainly did set out from the north with half a mind that the game could be called off before we got there, because it had already happened to another game in the week.
Not everyone was lucky enough to have The Twang as a consolation. How was it?
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 19, 2021, 12:18:12 PM
True.If there isn't a firm decision from the Premier League then I'm not sure what else the club could have done.
Each and every game at the moment hangs in the balance for each and every club.
Not sending out emails and social media posts bigging up the game the same morning it was hanging in the balance would have been a start
Maybe the club should have gone the other way and advised us that we're all risking our health by turning up.
I didn't see any other football league club take this approach though.
Post by: amfy on December 19, 2021, 01:25:49 PM
Buendia tweeted in the morning "Game on!"
It's 95% the Premier League's fault, but then it's not like the club explicitly said "as things stand we've got enough players to play, but everybody is taking PCR tests daily, so if the results come through on Saturday morning there's no guarantee we'll still have enough players."
Whole things is an absoute clusterfuck.
Didn’t Gerard say pretty much exactly that in his press conference, & isn’t that absolutely obvious anyway. They are testing daily, on any given day there can be a number of additional positive tests. The timings and processing will be set by the PL who should have called this game off when it was one of only 2 still on - it was pretty obvious where we were headed.
…& I certainly did set out from the north with half a mind that the game could be called off before we got there, because it had already happened to another game in the week.
Not everyone was lucky enough to have The Twang as a consolation. How was it?
Excellent. How come you didn’t go? Didn’t you have tickets for it?
We actually wouldn’t have travelled if it weren’t for the fact that I had a £120 hotel booking because of that gig which I couldn’t cancel after the 15th.
I also spent all day wondering whether the twang might be called off too I was glad it wasn’t but we did travel thinking that if we were unlucky, neither thing would be on & we’d end up maybe just making the most of an over night in Brum.
The twang was definitely a major consolation, & made the trip well worthwhile (along with meeting up with C & The Coopers for a few jars) but that doesn’t change my point. We travelled knowing BOTH things we were travelling for were in the balance because of the escalation in concerns over the past week.
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2021, 01:34:09 PM
Buendia tweeted in the morning "Game on!"
It's 95% the Premier League's fault, but then it's not like the club explicitly said "as things stand we've got enough players to play, but everybody is taking PCR tests daily, so if the results come through on Saturday morning there's no guarantee we'll still have enough players."
Whole things is an absoute clusterfuck.
Didn’t Gerard say pretty much exactly that in his press conference, & isn’t that absolutely obvious anyway. They are testing daily, on any given day there can be a number of additional positive tests. The timings and processing will be set by the PL who should have called this game off when it was one of only 2 still on - it was pretty obvious where we were headed.
…& I certainly did set out from the north with half a mind that the game could be called off before we got there, because it had already happened to another game in the week.
No I don't think it was that obvious at all. All Gerrard said in respect of Covid and the Premier League was that he was worried about the extra games players were having to play because other players were unavailable. Nothing about us possibly missing games because of tests at all.
Post by: sickbeggar on December 19, 2021, 01:50:53 PM
Post by: eric woolban woolban on December 19, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Boxing Day game will surely be off.
Post by: amfy on December 19, 2021, 01:59:53 PM
Buendia tweeted in the morning "Game on!"
It's 95% the Premier League's fault, but then it's not like the club explicitly said "as things stand we've got enough players to play, but everybody is taking PCR tests daily, so if the results come through on Saturday morning there's no guarantee we'll still have enough players."
Whole things is an absoute clusterfuck.
Didn’t Gerard say pretty much exactly that in his press conference, & isn’t that absolutely obvious anyway. They are testing daily, on any given day there can be a number of additional positive tests. The timings and processing will be set by the PL who should have called this game off when it was one of only 2 still on - it was pretty obvious where we were headed.
…& I certainly did set out from the north with half a mind that the game could be called off before we got there, because it had already happened to another game in the week.
No I don't think it was that obvious at all. All Gerrard said in respect of Covid and the Premier League was that he was worried about the extra games players were having to play because other players were unavailable. Nothing about us possibly missing games because of tests at all.
He said something like ‘as of today I have a team in mind, but day to day you don’t know whether more players will test positive’.
Another game was cancelled at only a couple of hours notice earlier in the week.
We already had several positive tests is the camp. It was always likely there’s be more because it doesn’t show up for a few days after infection, by the time El Ghazi, Steer & Samson tested positive, it was always likely that they’d already passed it on.
Post by: Flin5tone on December 19, 2021, 02:08:22 PM
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 19, 2021, 02:30:01 PM
Was absolutely fuming. Arrived at New Street Station and was told by a distressed looking family that it had been Postponed. Many had travelled from all over the country and even the world for this match and to call it off at such short notice was an absolute disgrace.
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Didn’t you go to the ground anyway and shake a fist at all those empty seats?
You must have been raging.
Post by: wince on December 19, 2021, 02:51:26 PM
So now do you realise why there were tickets available for games?
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Post by: Stinkin_Thinkin on December 19, 2021, 03:26:06 PM
So Chelsea requested for their game against Wolves to be delayed/postponed but this was rejected.
Boxing Day game will surely be off.
The matches that have gone ahead are all televised ones. Therefore as Villa Chelsea is the boxing day TV game I would assume it's a go-er.
Unless the Monday meeting outcome is a xmas holiday in dubai for the players.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 19, 2021, 03:56:54 PM
The Club has a responsibility to the fans as well as the PL. If you have system where its possible for a game to be called off at that late point then you tell people that is the case. I didn't see anyone on here waiting for the 1pm heads-up from the club because no-one knew that was the case. I presume most people like me assumed by 12pm it was definitely going ahead.
Yeah I just assume they'd do the tests at 8am-9am and get things back by 10am at latest.
Seems results were in at 11am (which would've been enough notice for locals and even Burnley fans) but for some reason premier league didn't decide until half 12 which is pretty poor.
Surely all teams should be staying at hotels the night before games now so it's quicker to do tests when they wake up rather than waiting for them to come into the training ground at whatever time on the Saturday morning?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 19, 2021, 03:58:56 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 19, 2021, 03:59:16 PM
The Club has a responsibility to the fans as well as the PL. If you have system where its possible for a game to be called off at that late point then you tell people that is the case. I didn't see anyone on here waiting for the 1pm heads-up from the club because no-one knew that was the case. I presume most people like me assumed by 12pm it was definitely going ahead.
Yeah I just assume they'd do the tests at 8am-9am and get things back by 10am at latest.
Seems results were in at 11am (which would've been enough notice for locals and even Burnley fans) but for some reason premier league didn't decide until half 12 which is pretty poor.
Surely all teams should be staying at hotels the night before games now so it's quicker to do tests when they wake up rather than waiting for them to come into the training ground at whatever time on the Saturday morning?
The tests were done on Friday morning, the results don't come back until the following day.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 19, 2021, 04:05:05 PM
The Club has a responsibility to the fans as well as the PL. If you have system where its possible for a game to be called off at that late point then you tell people that is the case. I didn't see anyone on here waiting for the 1pm heads-up from the club because no-one knew that was the case. I presume most people like me assumed by 12pm it was definitely going ahead.
Yeah I just assume they'd do the tests at 8am-9am and get things back by 10am at latest.
Seems results were in at 11am (which would've been enough notice for locals and even Burnley fans) but for some reason premier league didn't decide until half 12 which is pretty poor.
Surely all teams should be staying at hotels the night before games now so it's quicker to do tests when they wake up rather than waiting for them to come into the training ground at whatever time on the Saturday morning?
The tests were done on Friday morning, the results don't come back until the following day.
Oh right.....24 hours when LFT take less than an hour to get result?
Seems a bit odd to me that when players would've probably been at home on Friday evening, mixing with kids and partner and could easily get infected then and potentially play a match with covid.
The whole testing procedure dosen't feel the most watertight unless they need special tests given they're high level athletes compared to us mere mortals, would help if premier league put reasons on their website as to how they do it and so you get these very late call offs.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 19, 2021, 04:07:59 PM
I got my result quicker through the NHS testing centre. There are private Labs offering 4 hour turnaround.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 19, 2021, 05:53:52 PM
Buendia tweeted in the morning "Game on!"
It's 95% the Premier League's fault, but then it's not like the club explicitly said "as things stand we've got enough players to play, but everybody is taking PCR tests daily, so if the results come through on Saturday morning there's no guarantee we'll still have enough players."
Whole things is an absoute clusterfuck.
Didn’t Gerard say pretty much exactly that in his press conference, & isn’t that absolutely obvious anyway. They are testing daily, on any given day there can be a number of additional positive tests. The timings and processing will be set by the PL who should have called this game off when it was one of only 2 still on - it was pretty obvious where we were headed.
…& I certainly did set out from the north with half a mind that the game could be called off before we got there, because it had already happened to another game in the week.
Not everyone was lucky enough to have The Twang as a consolation. How was it?
Excellent. How come you didn’t go? Didn’t you have tickets for it?
We actually wouldn’t have travelled if it weren’t for the fact that I had a £120 hotel booking because of that gig which I couldn’t cancel after the 15th.
I also spent all day wondering whether the twang might be called off too I was glad it wasn’t but we did travel thinking that if we were unlucky, neither thing would be on & we’d end up maybe just making the most of an over night in Brum.
The twang was definitely a major consolation, & made the trip well worthwhile (along with meeting up with C & The Coopers for a few jars) but that doesn’t change my point. We travelled knowing BOTH things we were travelling for were in the balance because of the escalation in concerns over the past week.
I’m not going to anything apart from work amfy. I’m not taking unnecessary risks of catching it and giving it to the kids.
I put the tickets back on ticketmaster last week. Don’t know yet if they sold them.
Post by: Steve67 on December 19, 2021, 06:42:19 PM
Was absolutely fuming. Arrived at New Street Station and was told by a distressed looking family that it had been Postponed. Many had travelled from all over the country and even the world for this match and to call it off at such short notice was an absolute disgrace.
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Such a shame, couldn't have happened to a nicer poster. Those bastards at Villa protecting themselves and thousands of people from what many people have died from. The fuckers.
Post by: OCD on December 19, 2021, 07:05:44 PM
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2021, 08:37:39 PM
Was absolutely fuming. Arrived at New Street Station and was told by a distressed looking family that it had been Postponed. Many had travelled from all over the country and even the world for this match and to call it off at such short notice was an absolute disgrace.
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Such a shame, couldn't have happened to a nicer poster. Those bastards at Villa protecting themselves and thousands of people from what many people have died from. The fuckers.
It was nothing whatsoever to do with saving thousands of people. We just had too many players who had tested positive. Had we not, the game would have been on.
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 19, 2021, 09:35:57 PM
Post by: Steve67 on December 19, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Was absolutely fuming. Arrived at New Street Station and was told by a distressed looking family that it had been Postponed. Many had travelled from all over the country and even the world for this match and to call it off at such short notice was an absolute disgrace.
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Such a shame, couldn't have happened to a nicer poster. Those bastards at Villa protecting themselves and thousands of people from what many people have died from. The fuckers.
It was nothing whatsoever to do with saving thousands of people. We just had too many players who had tested positive. Had we not, the game would have been on.
The whole point is about it not spreading. Do keep up.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 19, 2021, 10:12:37 PM
geniusWas absolutely fuming. Arrived at New Street Station and was told by a distressed looking family that it had been Postponed. Many had travelled from all over the country and even the world for this match and to call it off at such short notice was an absolute disgrace.
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Such a shame, couldn't have happened to a nicer poster. Those bastards at Villa protecting themselves and thousands of people from what many people have died from. The fuckers.
It was nothing whatsoever to do with saving thousands of people. We just had too many players who had tested positive. Had we not, the game would have been on.
The whole point is about it not spreading. Do keep up.
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2021, 11:40:30 PM
The whole point is about it not spreading. Do keep up.
Well, this is awkward.
Post by: adrenachrome on December 20, 2021, 01:05:18 AM
The whole point is about it not spreading. Do keep up.
Well, this is awkward.
Awkward it may well be, but can you keep it up?
Was watching Milan v Napoli on a tablet with the sound off while viewing a Korean show on the TV. Half time and there was an advert for NuMann or some such.
Dear NuMann
I have arthritis of the proboscis. Will your potion be efficacious in restoring my member to its tumescence?
Twitter jail plus insulting reply from NuMann. Where will this all end?
Post by: purpletrousers on December 20, 2021, 01:46:40 AM
They are using PCR tests and a 24 hour turnaround is ridiculous.
I got my result quicker through the NHS testing centre. There are private Labs offering 4 hour turnaround.
Totally agreed. 3hr tests are common I popped across to Stanstead Airport a couple of weeks ago at the start of our 72hrs pre-flight that didn’t obviously didn’t happen as I tested +ve (double & booster Pfizered).
I’m amazed given there were even special testing machines commissioned for clubs etc (I thought)
Post by: Martyn Smith on December 20, 2021, 05:08:18 AM
i 18-19 Dec
(https://i.ibb.co/4VtzFNC/dav.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4VtzFNC)
Post by: sid1964 on December 20, 2021, 06:59:48 AM
The people in the car parked behind me had travelled from London to see the game! - they were really pissed off.
Still at least I was home by quickly!!
I am sure the game will be re-arranged for an FA Cup weekend in either February or March
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 20, 2021, 07:21:26 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 20, 2021, 08:09:58 AM
Worries me, and is probably a decent representation of society, that so many on here don’t know how these tests work. Not surprised this virus is still ripping the shit out of things.and the Vaccines don’t stop infections cohort.
Post by: sid1964 on December 20, 2021, 08:17:53 AM
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
Post by: Demitri_C on December 20, 2021, 10:08:04 AM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Post by: sickbeggar on December 20, 2021, 10:11:38 AM
The Club has a responsibility to the fans as well as the PL. If you have system where its possible for a game to be called off at that late point then you tell people that is the case. I didn't see anyone on here waiting for the 1pm heads-up from the club because no-one knew that was the case. I presume most people like me assumed by 12pm it was definitely going ahead.
Yeah I just assume they'd do the tests at 8am-9am and get things back by 10am at latest.
Seems results were in at 11am (which would've been enough notice for locals and even Burnley fans) but for some reason premier league didn't decide until half 12 which is pretty poor.
Surely all teams should be staying at hotels the night before games now so it's quicker to do tests when they wake up rather than waiting for them to come into the training ground at whatever time on the Saturday morning?
Yeah its the communication aspect of it that's really fell down. I woke up on Saturday morning half expecting it to be called off and judging from the pre-match threads others travelling distances were having the same thoughts. By 12pm most people thought it was on. Fans, both ours and Burnley's realise it's difficult times and will make allowances, so the club and PL telling us there's an actual decision to be made would have helped. People would leave as late as possible for starters. We all have car radio's/phones so if you are expecting a decision its the difference between getting half way down the motorway and turning round or pulling into Villa Park and then finding out.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 20, 2021, 10:41:34 AM
So disappointed that the game on Saturday was called off, especially as I had parked near to the ground when the postponement was announced on the radio.
The people in the car parked behind me had travelled from London to see the game! - they were really pissed off.
Still at least I was home by quickly!!
I am sure the game will be re-arranged for an FA Cup weekend in either February or March
4th round weekend is a stick on if it goes wrong at Old Trafford. No idea who Burnley have got but their cup record is pretty woeful under Dyche so deep in a relegation battle they won't last long in FA cup either.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 20, 2021, 11:06:33 AM
Huddersfield at Turf MoorSo disappointed that the game on Saturday was called off, especially as I had parked near to the ground when the postponement was announced on the radio.
The people in the car parked behind me had travelled from London to see the game! - they were really pissed off.
Still at least I was home by quickly!!
I am sure the game will be re-arranged for an FA Cup weekend in either February or March
4th round weekend is a stick on if it goes wrong at Old Trafford. No idea who Burnley have got but their cup record is pretty woeful under Dyche so deep in a relegation battle they won't last long in FA cup either.
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 20, 2021, 11:07:00 AM
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
same here , my son and GF both having the CV but I never got it . But I do thing at times I am not human .
wouldnt mind a Manure cup game with no crowd.
Post by: Drummond on December 20, 2021, 11:31:46 AM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Yep, learn to live with it. Unless you're one of the unlucky/vulnerable ones, and then you could perhaps be really ill and/or die from it.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 20, 2021, 11:39:10 AM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Yep, learn to live with it. Unless you're one of the unlucky/vulnerable ones, and then you could perhaps be really ill and/or die from it.
Unfortunately there isnt much we can do for that group. My gran is vulnerable and she has had all her jabs so she says to me i just gonna live my life as sitting at home all day isnt living and no point of being alive if this is going to be my life.
Its purely based on what that person decides case by case
Post by: Drummond on December 20, 2021, 11:40:29 AM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Yep, learn to live with it. Unless you're one of the unlucky/vulnerable ones, and then you could perhaps be really ill and/or die from it.
Unfortunately there isnt much we can do for that group. My gran is vulnerable and she has had all her jabs so she says to me i just gonna live my life as sitting at home all day isnt living and no point of being alive if this is going to be my life.
Its purely based on what that person decides case by case
Yes there is, that's what all this is about, you (along with quite a lot of others in the country) just don't want to do it.
Post by: OCD on December 20, 2021, 12:04:22 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 20, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Yep, learn to live with it. Unless you're one of the unlucky/vulnerable ones, and then you could perhaps be really ill and/or die from it.
Unfortunately there isnt much we can do for that group. My gran is vulnerable and she has had all her jabs so she says to me i just gonna live my life as sitting at home all day isnt living and no point of being alive if this is going to be my life.
Its purely based on what that person decides case by case
Yes there is, that's what all this is about, you (along with quite a lot of others in the country) just don't want to do it.
Do what? Im so confused?
Post by: chrisw1 on December 20, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
So you reckon Flinstone is the only person unhappy with the late cancellation? You don't think these things could and should be managed better?Was absolutely fuming. Arrived at New Street Station and was told by a distressed looking family that it had been Postponed. Many had travelled from all over the country and even the world for this match and to call it off at such short notice was an absolute disgrace.
My Hangover is even worse now with the extra 90 minutes of Drinking too.
Hopefully the Chelsea game is Called Off tomorrow as with the alarming rate of cases it just isn't safe
Such a shame, couldn't have happened to a nicer poster. Those bastards at Villa protecting themselves and thousands of people from what many people have died from. The fuckers.
In your race to have one more dig at a poster you have made your mind up about you are losing sight of the actual situation here.
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Post by: Border villan on December 20, 2021, 01:52:33 PM
I’m at the London International Horse Show today (don’t ask). All the competitors have been PCR tested and got their results back today. If they can do it why can’t Billionaire football teams?
Risso rides again!
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 20, 2021, 01:59:59 PM
I’m at the London International Horse Show today (don’t ask). All the competitors have been PCR tested and got their results back today. If they can do it why can’t Billionaire football teams?
Good luck in the polo match!
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 20, 2021, 02:24:24 PM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Yep, learn to live with it. Unless you're one of the unlucky/vulnerable ones, and then you could perhaps be really ill and/or die from it.
Then like any at risk person would do is take extra precautions. From the start all the focus should of been on the frail and the ones who medically needed protection - rather than isolate and scare everyone else into blind panic. If we lived our lives on "what ifs" and computer calculations we would never leave our houses again.
I would like to know how many of the players / staff who tested positive (the reason games called off) were actually ill.
Because maybe if we dis not test so much the actual cases causing significant health issues would, i assume be much lower that the doomsayers are predicting
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 20, 2021, 02:27:02 PM
Terrible shame - lots of kids crying as the game was either their first or an early Christmas present.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 20, 2021, 02:33:22 PM
Post by: Smirker on December 20, 2021, 03:08:08 PM
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2021, 03:14:38 PM
No circuit breaker confirmed. PL to continue as normal.
Wankers. So we’ve all just got to carrying making plans on a wing and a prayer?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 20, 2021, 03:19:05 PM
No circuit breaker confirmed. PL to continue as normal.
Wankers. So we’ve all just got to carrying making plans on a wing and a prayer?
Yep, wankers. As ever they’re more bothered by TV revenue than match going fans.
Post by: aev on December 20, 2021, 03:19:55 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 20, 2021, 03:20:47 PM
Money talks
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 20, 2021, 03:33:36 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on December 20, 2021, 03:41:16 PM
Presumably we can't play Chelsea as none of those that have tested positive would be back in time?
The ones that tested positive before the Norwich game "might" be available
Post by: sickbeggar on December 20, 2021, 03:43:35 PM
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 20, 2021, 03:44:37 PM
Post by: Drummond on December 20, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Yep, learn to live with it. Unless you're one of the unlucky/vulnerable ones, and then you could perhaps be really ill and/or die from it.
Then like any at risk person would do is take extra precautions. From the start all the focus should of been on the frail and the ones who medically needed protection - rather than isolate and scare everyone else into blind panic. If we lived our lives on "what ifs" and computer calculations we would never leave our houses again.
I would like to know how many of the players / staff who tested positive (the reason games called off) were actually ill.
Because maybe if we dis not test so much the actual cases causing significant health issues would, i assume be much lower that the doomsayers are predicting
Yep, fuck the vulnerable, let them look after themselves and fuck em watching the match. Which is why we keep getting into the same old shit situation. Idiots that won't vaccinate, won't wear masks, won't wash their hands, won't socially distance, won't think of other people.
The players may not be ill yet, they may have mild symptoms, but they may pass it on to someone else, someone less able to cope. We've had a number of players collapse on the pitch of late, they potentially could be at much higher risk.
And yes, let's not test anyone and pretend it doesn't really exist.
The late cancellation was shit. I really feel for those who were going, and like you mentioned in your other post, plenty of kids will have been upset. I'm sure they'll bounce back though.
Post by: Drummond on December 20, 2021, 03:48:46 PM
Unbelievable
Money talks
Yep. Again.
Post by: Pat Mustard on December 20, 2021, 03:50:51 PM
No circuit breaker confirmed. PL to continue as normal.
Where has this come from - can't see it being reported anywhere? Suspect the decision might end up being taken out of their hands in the next couple of days anyway.
Post by: Villan82 on December 20, 2021, 03:52:07 PM
Lets hope that the remainder of the season is played behind closed doors and we can watch the games at home on the television and it will save me time and money travelling to the games, and I will get a refund on my season ticket.
My wife recently had the COVid - she was poorly but thankfully had the jabs so it was like a bad flu, despite living in the same house I did not get the COVid - very strange, maybe I am immune to the virus?
And then what happens next winter, the next greek letter variant comes we all stay home, stop our lives again?
This isnt ending if we carry on this like we need to learn to live with it or we might as well stop living. Just do all the saftey protocols they are suggesting masks in busy places, isolating if infecting etc. Thats all we can do.
Glad to hear your wifes ok.
Yep, learn to live with it. Unless you're one of the unlucky/vulnerable ones, and then you could perhaps be really ill and/or die from it.
Then like any at risk person would do is take extra precautions. From the start all the focus should of been on the frail and the ones who medically needed protection - rather than isolate and scare everyone else into blind panic. If we lived our lives on "what ifs" and computer calculations we would never leave our houses again.
I would like to know how many of the players / staff who tested positive (the reason games called off) were actually ill.
Because maybe if we dis not test so much the actual cases causing significant health issues would, i assume be much lower that the doomsayers are predicting
Yep, fuck the vulnerable, let them look after themselves and fuck em watching the match. Which is why we keep getting into the same old shit situation. Idiots that won't vaccinate, won't wear masks, won't wash their hands, won't socially distance, won't think of other people.
The players may not be ill yet, they may have mild symptoms, but they may pass it on to someone else, someone less able to cope. We've had a number of players collapse on the pitch of late, they potentially could be at much higher risk.
And yes, let's not test anyone and pretend it doesn't really exist.
The late cancellation was shit. I really feel for those who were going, and like you mentioned in your other post, plenty of kids will have been upset. I'm sure they'll bounce back though.
What do you expect under a Tory government that has not shown leadership. Freedom Day and party political rhetoric more important to them than consistent public safety messaging that could have encouraged mask wearing etc.
Post by: Smirker on December 20, 2021, 03:52:39 PM
No circuit breaker confirmed. PL to continue as normal.
Where has this come from - can't see it being reported anywhere? Suspect the decision might end up being taken out of their hands in the next couple of days anyway.
Talksport I heard it on.
BBC - https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1472952753848786951
Post by: spangley1812 on December 20, 2021, 03:52:57 PM
No circuit breaker confirmed. PL to continue as normal.
Where has this come from - can't see it being reported anywhere? Suspect the decision might end up being taken out of their hands in the next couple of days anyway.
From BBC Sport Website
Premier League clubs have chosen to fulfil festive fixtures despite ongoing disruption caused by Covid-19 cases.
The league's 20 clubs met on Monday to discuss how they could deal with the challenges faced after six fixtures were postponed because of Covid-19 numbers over the weekend.
The postponement of a round of games over Christmas was a possibility.
No vote took place and so two rounds of fixtures are in place across five days from 26 December.
It had been expected that gameweek 20, starting on 28 December, would be postponed in order to ease the pressure on Premier League squads.
Instead, clubs have been advised if they have 13 fit players, plus a goalkeeper, they should fulfil their games.
There are however talks between clubs and authorities to scrap FA Cup replays in rounds three and four, and to reduce EFL Cup semi-final ties to one-leg matches.
Last week, Premier League players returned 42 positive Covid-19 tests in a seven-day period, the highest number since the start of the pandemic. Updated figures for the most recent seven-day period are expected later on Monday.
In Sunday's Premier League fixtures, Chelsea named just six substitutes for their draw at Wolves and Liverpool drew at Tottenham without a number of first-team names.
Five of Saturday's six fixtures were called off. Chelsea tried to get Sunday's fixture at Wolves postponed and boss Thomas Tuchel said his players were put at "huge risk... not just because of Covid but also physically".
It is understood Liverpool were among a group of clubs who pushed for the postponement of gameweek 20.
After Sunday's draw at Spurs, Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp said playing on 26 and 28 December was not feasible.
"It's impossible, we don't have the players," Klopp said. "We have to think we will get an extra case or two. We cannot just push it all through. The 26th and 28th, that's not possible. We would prefer to play but we need help with the fixtures."
The seven Premier League teams still in the Carabao Cup face ties on 21 and 22 December and will play three Premier League fixtures between then and 2 January.
Post by: Drummond on December 20, 2021, 03:55:46 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on December 20, 2021, 03:57:00 PM
Chelsea have some FIFA jolly to play for 2 weeks in Feb so i'd imagine they don't want them getting a huge backlog in games. I'd expect our game with them to go ahead.Tuchel was furious his game wasn't called off at the weekend so he obviously didn't get that memo.
Post by: Dave P on December 20, 2021, 04:05:43 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on December 20, 2021, 04:14:59 PM
Chelsea have some FIFA jolly to play for 2 weeks in Feb so i'd imagine they don't want them getting a huge backlog in games. I'd expect our game with them to go ahead.Tuchel was furious his game wasn't called off at the weekend so he obviously didn't get that memo.
Yeah it was more a comment on the PL's thinking with fixture congestion. They're not going to cancel FIFA's "World Club best of the bestest championship that no-one cares about" competition. Much easier to force Chelsea to play down to the barebones than cancel games.
Post by: Beard82 on December 20, 2021, 04:53:19 PM
Post by: Des Little on December 20, 2021, 05:04:23 PM
Post by: placeforparks on December 20, 2021, 05:29:16 PM
As others have said, money talks. Players and their welfare is one thing, but what about the fans? I can’t think of a single environment that’s less covid friendly than a football stand concourse. The dickhead per square foot ratio there is off the scale at times.
not to mention the overcrowding on public transport to/from the match due to an inability to lay on extra services to meet demand...
Post by: chrisw1 on December 20, 2021, 05:32:46 PM
So if we have 13 players and a goalie - we have to play. Does that include the youth team?I think I read it includes any U23/U21 players who have first team experience. So for us would include Bidace etc. I presume they won't include the Carabo cup Liverpool game as fist team experience otherwise we're stuffed.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 20, 2021, 05:33:29 PM
As others have said, money talks. Players and their welfare is one thing, but what about the fans? I can’t think of a single environment that’s less covid friendly than a football stand concourse. The dickhead per square foot ratio there is off the scale at times.
not to mention the overcrowding on public transport to/from the match due to an inability to lay on extra services to meet demand...
Absolutely. My solution is not to go.
Post by: Dave P on December 20, 2021, 05:37:36 PM
Post by: placeforparks on December 20, 2021, 05:45:17 PM
Quote
The Premier League released the below statement on Monday evening:
It was confirmed at a Premier League club meeting today that while recognising a number of clubs are experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks and challenges, it is the League’s collective intention to continue the current fixture schedule where safely possible.
The health and wellbeing of all concerned remains our priority and the League will continue to monitor and reflect public health guidance, always proceeding with caution.
A range of issues were discussed at this afternoon’s meeting, including the adaption of the Premier League COVID-19 postponement process in response to the impact of the Omicron variant.
The League also confirmed to its clubs today that 92 per cent of players and club staff have received one, two or three COVID-19 vaccination doses, with 84 per cent of players on the vaccination journey.
Players who have had one or two doses are required to wait for the appropriate time period before receiving either their second or booster vaccinations.
The League continues to work with clubs to encourage vaccination among players and club staff, as well as promoting the Government’s public-health vaccination messaging to clubs and the wider public.
No specific details as to clubs or individuals will be provided by the League, and player vaccination rates will now be publicly communicated at the end of each month, beginning in January.
Post by: Ad@m on December 20, 2021, 05:49:14 PM
new statement up on the official website:QuoteThe Premier League released the below statement on Monday evening:
It was confirmed at a Premier League club meeting today that while recognising a number of clubs are experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks and challenges, it is the League’s collective intention to continue the current fixture schedule where safely possible.
The health and wellbeing of all concerned remains our priority and the League will continue to monitor and reflect public health guidance, always proceeding with caution.
A range of issues were discussed at this afternoon’s meeting, including the adaption of the Premier League COVID-19 postponement process in response to the impact of the Omicron variant.
The League also confirmed to its clubs today that 92 per cent of players and club staff have received one, two or three COVID-19 vaccination doses, with 84 per cent of players on the vaccination journey.
Players who have had one or two doses are required to wait for the appropriate time period before receiving either their second or booster vaccinations.
The League continues to work with clubs to encourage vaccination among players and club staff, as well as promoting the Government’s public-health vaccination messaging to clubs and the wider public.
No specific details as to clubs or individuals will be provided by the League, and player vaccination rates will now be publicly communicated at the end of each month, beginning in January.
Well that bit is clearly a lie.
Post by: SaddVillan on December 20, 2021, 05:55:44 PM
new statement up on the official website:QuoteThe Premier League released the below statement on Monday evening:
It was confirmed at a Premier League club meeting today that while recognising a number of clubs are experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks and challenges, it is the League’s collective intention to continue the current fixture schedule where safely possible.
The health and wellbeing of all concerned remains our priority and the League will continue to monitor and reflect public health guidance, always proceeding with caution.
A range of issues were discussed at this afternoon’s meeting, including the adaption of the Premier League COVID-19 postponement process in response to the impact of the Omicron variant.
The League also confirmed to its clubs today that 92 per cent of players and club staff have received one, two or three COVID-19 vaccination doses, with 84 per cent of players on the vaccination journey.
Players who have had one or two doses are required to wait for the appropriate time period before receiving either their second or booster vaccinations.
The League continues to work with clubs to encourage vaccination among players and club staff, as well as promoting the Government’s public-health vaccination messaging to clubs and the wider public.
No specific details as to clubs or individuals will be provided by the League, and player vaccination rates will now be publicly communicated at the end of each month, beginning in January.
Well that bit is clearly a lie.
There's obviously a typo, this paragraph should have read:
The health and wellbeing of all of our bank accountsremains our priority.
Post by: eamonn on December 20, 2021, 06:03:03 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on December 20, 2021, 06:06:02 PM
Post by: Border villan on December 20, 2021, 06:34:59 PM
Greed and avarice 1 - 0 Fans health
Post by: Matt C on December 20, 2021, 06:42:43 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 20, 2021, 06:57:04 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 20, 2021, 06:58:05 PM
I love the Christmas fixtures personally.
So do I.
I also love not killing my nan.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 20, 2021, 07:00:43 PM
So by my maths there's 84 players who've had no vaccinations or 4 per club. Is that on a par with society? Not far off I reckon.
In broader society there are a large number of people who, for underlying health reasons, cannot receive the vaccine. That’s not going to be an issue for professional footballers.
Post by: andyh on December 20, 2021, 07:17:51 PM
Blimey !I love the Christmas fixtures personally.
So do I.
I also love not killing my nan.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 20, 2021, 07:43:13 PM
Post by: Des Little on December 20, 2021, 07:45:45 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on December 20, 2021, 07:51:12 PM
I read somewhere that the main two reasons there’s a reluctance amongst players is they’re frightened of the unknown in terms of reactions to their bodies. The logic being that their job involves being in absolute prime physical condition. Second, a lot of them are believing various conspiracy theories.
I have heard/read the same there are "influencers" in the dressing rooms telling the players not to get vaccinated
The figures for vaccinated players across Europe are a lot higher in most leagues well over 90% and in Italy its 98% and if you look at there leagues there were hardly any postponements whereas the Prem League was decimated
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 20, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2021, 07:52:29 PM
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 20, 2021, 07:57:27 PM
Post by: mrfuse on December 20, 2021, 07:58:00 PM
I love the Christmas fixtures personally.
So do I.
I also love not killing my nan.
Not sure anyone loves killing their Nan.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 20, 2021, 08:09:18 PM
I love the Christmas fixtures personally.
So do I.
I also love not killing my nan.
Not sure anyone loves killing their Nan.
Some people care less than others though.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 20, 2021, 08:22:25 PM
As others have said, money talks. Players and their welfare is one thing, but what about the fans? I can’t think of a single environment that’s less covid friendly than a football stand concourse. The dickhead per square foot ratio there is off the scale at times.
Absolutely - Just put my Chelsea seat up for resale. FUCK THAT!
Post by: Demitri_C on December 20, 2021, 08:31:25 PM
I think we could aee attendances in most games plummet boxing day and 28th
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 20, 2021, 08:36:08 PM
We could always have lateral and PCR test after the game but before we visit our Nans though?I love the Christmas fixtures personally.
So do I.
I also love not killing my nan.
Not sure anyone loves killing their Nan.
Some people care less than others though.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on December 20, 2021, 08:55:41 PM
Post by: amfy on December 20, 2021, 09:26:30 PM
As others have said, money talks. Players and their welfare is one thing, but what about the fans? I can’t think of a single environment that’s less covid friendly than a football stand concourse. The dickhead per square foot ratio there is off the scale at times.
To be fair - the twang gig might’ve outdone it on Saturday!
Post by: Martyn Smith on December 20, 2021, 09:36:07 PM
So by my maths there's 84 players who've had no vaccinations or 4 per club. Is that on a par with society? Not far off I reckon.
In broader society there are a large number of people who, for underlying health reasons, cannot receive the vaccine. That’s not going to be an issue for professional footballers.
Maybe it'll take one of them to snuff it from, or be severely hospitalised by COVID for these f***wits to wake up
Post by: Des Little on December 20, 2021, 09:46:18 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 20, 2021, 09:59:09 PM
As others have said, money talks. Players and their welfare is one thing, but what about the fans? I can’t think of a single environment that’s less covid friendly than a football stand concourse. The dickhead per square foot ratio there is off the scale at times.
To be fair - the twang gig might’ve outdone it on Saturday!
Haha, I was just thinking that after reading that post and watching some of the gig on YouTube.
Post by: RichardBatchelor on December 20, 2021, 10:11:16 PM
Can’t the physicians find a way of getting the vaccine into laughing gas? Wallop, 100% player protection sorted.
Ha ha
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on December 20, 2021, 10:31:59 PM
It does all make for a very awkward dilemma for many people. Of course we want to go to football on Boxing Day, but with numbers heading the way they are, many will have a tough call to make. I appreciate that the simple answer is ‘don’t go if you’re unsure’, but it’s not as easy as that is it?! Personally, I’d prefer the League to pull the games or make them close door games - either would be the right thing to do in my opinion.Problem is you've got Boris Johnson dithering on any restrictions to impose and when. Wish he'd piss on the pot or get up off it!
Post by: amfy on December 20, 2021, 10:34:24 PM
As others have said, money talks. Players and their welfare is one thing, but what about the fans? I can’t think of a single environment that’s less covid friendly than a football stand concourse. The dickhead per square foot ratio there is off the scale at times.
To be fair - the twang gig might’ve outdone it on Saturday!
Haha, I was just thinking that after reading that post and watching some of the gig on YouTube.
They have now cancelled the rest of their tour btw!
Post by: brontebilly on December 20, 2021, 10:49:02 PM
So by my maths there's 84 players who've had no vaccinations or 4 per club. Is that on a par with society? Not far off I reckon.
In broader society there are a large number of people who, for underlying health reasons, cannot receive the vaccine. That’s not going to be an issue for professional footballers.
Maybe it'll take one of them to snuff it from, or be severely hospitalised by COVID for these f***wits to wake up
Their poster boy Kimmich at Bayern is in a bad way.
It must be nearly getting to the stage where not getting vaccinated is putting you in breach of contract. It's putting teammates at risk.
Would wonder about the % of healthcare staff that are unvaccinated. A stat that will never see the light of day in most jurisdictions.
Post by: adrenachrome on December 20, 2021, 11:12:19 PM
So by my maths there's 84 players who've had no vaccinations or 4 per club. Is that on a par with society? Not far off I reckon.
In broader society there are a large number of people who, for underlying health reasons, cannot receive the vaccine. That’s not going to be an issue for professional footballers.
Maybe it'll take one of them to snuff it from, or be severely hospitalised by COVID for these f***wits to wake up
Their poster boy Kimmich at Bayern is in a bad way.
It must be nearly getting to the stage where not getting vaccinated is putting you in breach of contract. It's putting teammates at risk.
Would wonder about the % of healthcare staff that are unvaccinated. A stat that will never see the light of day in most jurisdictions.
The social media platforms frequented by most PL players are awash with stories that various vaccines are causing cardiac arrests among their ranks. Couple this with the view that getting poxed up is no worse than a dose of the flu if you are fit and healthy and there you go.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 20, 2021, 11:21:21 PM
As others have said, money talks. Players and their welfare is one thing, but what about the fans? I can’t think of a single environment that’s less covid friendly than a football stand concourse. The dickhead per square foot ratio there is off the scale at times.
To be fair - the twang gig might’ve outdone it on Saturday!
Haha, I was just thinking that after reading that post and watching some of the gig on YouTube.
They have now cancelled the rest of their tour btw!
Blimey.
Not that surprising really I suppose. Much worse than the Holte concourse: Limbs at 3.30-ish:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nFR4JahQBns
Post by: mrfuse on December 21, 2021, 12:52:38 AM
So by my maths there's 84 players who've had no vaccinations or 4 per club. Is that on a par with society? Not far off I reckon.
In broader society there are a large number of people who, for underlying health reasons, cannot receive the vaccine. That’s not going to be an issue for professional footballers.
Maybe it'll take one of them to snuff it from, or be severely hospitalised by COVID for these f***wits to wake up
Their poster boy Kimmich at Bayern is in a bad way.
It must be nearly getting to the stage where not getting vaccinated is putting you in breach of contract. It's putting teammates at risk.
Would wonder about the % of healthcare staff that are unvaccinated. A stat that will never see the light of day in most jurisdictions.
Kimmich isint in a bad way, he had a slight infiltration on his lung and he is fine now and will be back in January. He has said he regrets not getting vaccinated and now plans too.
Post by: john2710 on December 21, 2021, 01:14:37 AM
Players are going to have the same opinions as others in their age groups. Some will believe their age / fitness leaves them less likely to have problems, others will take the vaccine to protect themselves or their relatives.
In my opinion it’s immoral to have 40k people travelling to, drinking & congregating in a stadium when there’s a virus running rampant.
Post by: LeonW on December 21, 2021, 01:29:30 AM
Post by: Dave P on December 21, 2021, 06:35:13 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 21, 2021, 07:59:33 AM
You can spread that around villa park. Obv would need to be something like 50% capacity as othee teams dont have as big stadiums as us
Post by: frank black on December 21, 2021, 08:04:01 AM
Post by: The Edge on December 21, 2021, 08:48:39 AM
It’ll be closed doors on Boxing Day, I expectI don't think it will. Johnson has lost all credibility over Covid measures. He won't risk the bad publicity. Probably enforce proof of vaccination before entry into the ground via the NHS app. Then we'll have a short "circuit breaker" in January which of course brings us back to where we were year ago. Playing home games behind closed doors having had to go to the opposition ground with a full stadium earlier in the season which just wouldn't be fair. It's a bloody mess alright.
Post by: Beard82 on December 21, 2021, 08:56:43 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on December 21, 2021, 09:06:14 AM
Yeah - it also seems unfair that if you have at least 13 players you have to play - it is a massive advantage to the bigger teams - or those that haven’t had vivid outbreaks. It could be the difference between relegation and survival, Europe or Mid table, or winning the league or not
Just like us vs liverpool in fa cup last year eh? They didnt care then and they wont care now.
You can have a circuit breaker but then a week later when your back playing you can have a outbreak then your back at square one.
Personally i think there needs to be a rule where your allowed bigger squads without ffp restrictions so you can cope with cases if you want season tk continue.
The biggest problem is the isolation. I get why it happens but the point of being double jabbed and then having a booster was if you dont have symptoms or test negative you dont isolate. Once omicron passes. Next will be the pi variant (next letter off the greek alphabet)
Why thing i dont get is why have they skipped to O in the greek alphabet with the variant name?
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
Post by: Lucky Eddie on December 21, 2021, 09:11:05 AM
I'll be mortified if Newcastle, Leeds or Wolves are saved.
Post by: frank black on December 21, 2021, 09:12:15 AM
Yeah - it also seems unfair that if you have at least 13 players you have to play - it is a massive advantage to the bigger teams - or those that haven’t had vivid outbreaks. It could be the difference between relegation and survival, Europe or Mid table, or winning the league or not
Just like us vs liverpool in fa cup last year eh? They didnt care then and they wont care now.
You can have a circuit breaker but then a week later when your back playing you can have a outbreak then your back at square one.
Personally i think there needs to be a rule where your allowed bigger squads without ffp restrictions so you can cope with cases if you want season tk continue.
The biggest problem is the isolation. I get why it happens but the point of being double jabbed and then having a booster was if you dont have symptoms or test negative you dont isolate. Once omicron passes. Next will be the pi variant (next letter off the greek alphabet)
Why thing i dont get is why have they skipped to O in the greek alphabet with the variant name?
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
There is a Epislon, just must be not as effective
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2021, 09:20:10 AM
It does all make for a very awkward dilemma for many people. Of course we want to go to football on Boxing Day, but with numbers heading the way they are, many will have a tough call to make. I appreciate that the simple answer is ‘don’t go if you’re unsure’, but it’s not as easy as that is it?! Personally, I’d prefer the League to pull the games or make them close door games - either would be the right thing to do in my opinion.I don’t want to live in a country where the Government decide everything, there comes a point when individuals need to take responsibility for themselves.
There is enough information to enable you to make an informed decision and as you say if you are unsure......
Post by: UK Redsox on December 21, 2021, 09:26:41 AM
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
There was definitely a 'Mu', because I posted some extremely witty KLF puns at the time
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211006/mu-made-splash-disappeared-quietly
Post by: Chris Smith on December 21, 2021, 09:27:29 AM
Yeah - it also seems unfair that if you have at least 13 players you have to play - it is a massive advantage to the bigger teams - or those that haven’t had vivid outbreaks. It could be the difference between relegation and survival, Europe or Mid table, or winning the league or not
Just like us vs liverpool in fa cup last year eh? They didnt care then and they wont care now.
You can have a circuit breaker but then a week later when your back playing you can have a outbreak then your back at square one.
Personally i think there needs to be a rule where your allowed bigger squads without ffp restrictions so you can cope with cases if you want season tk continue.
The biggest problem is the isolation. I get why it happens but the point of being double jabbed and then having a booster was if you dont have symptoms or test negative you dont isolate. Once omicron passes. Next will be the pi variant (next letter off the greek alphabet)
Why thing i dont get is why have they skipped to O in the greek alphabet with the variant name?
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
There is a Epislon, just must be not as effective
First identified in California but was out-competed but existing variants so never took hold.
Post by: Drummond on December 21, 2021, 09:28:53 AM
It does all make for a very awkward dilemma for many people. Of course we want to go to football on Boxing Day, but with numbers heading the way they are, many will have a tough call to make. I appreciate that the simple answer is ‘don’t go if you’re unsure’, but it’s not as easy as that is it?! Personally, I’d prefer the League to pull the games or make them close door games - either would be the right thing to do in my opinion.I don’t want to live in a country where the Government decide everything, there comes a point when individuals need to take responsibility for themselves.
There is enough information to enable you to make an informed decision and as you say if you are unsure......
I broadly agree with your first point. My issue is that there appears to be a growing number of people who will happily jeopardise everyone else whilst doing what they want.
Post by: Beard82 on December 21, 2021, 09:37:19 AM
Is it that there were other variants - but just that they were variants of concern?Yeah - it also seems unfair that if you have at least 13 players you have to play - it is a massive advantage to the bigger teams - or those that haven’t had vivid outbreaks. It could be the difference between relegation and survival, Europe or Mid table, or winning the league or not
Just like us vs liverpool in fa cup last year eh? They didnt care then and they wont care now.
You can have a circuit breaker but then a week later when your back playing you can have a outbreak then your back at square one.
Personally i think there needs to be a rule where your allowed bigger squads without ffp restrictions so you can cope with cases if you want season tk continue.
The biggest problem is the isolation. I get why it happens but the point of being double jabbed and then having a booster was if you dont have symptoms or test negative you dont isolate. Once omicron passes. Next will be the pi variant (next letter off the greek alphabet)
Why thing i dont get is why have they skipped to O in the greek alphabet with the variant name?
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
Post by: Beard82 on December 21, 2021, 09:38:51 AM
I think it was like those green coke bottles - neither got going so got cancelledYeah - it also seems unfair that if you have at least 13 players you have to play - it is a massive advantage to the bigger teams - or those that haven’t had vivid outbreaks. It could be the difference between relegation and survival, Europe or Mid table, or winning the league or not
Just like us vs liverpool in fa cup last year eh? They didnt care then and they wont care now.
You can have a circuit breaker but then a week later when your back playing you can have a outbreak then your back at square one.
Personally i think there needs to be a rule where your allowed bigger squads without ffp restrictions so you can cope with cases if you want season tk continue.
The biggest problem is the isolation. I get why it happens but the point of being double jabbed and then having a booster was if you dont have symptoms or test negative you dont isolate. Once omicron passes. Next will be the pi variant (next letter off the greek alphabet)
Why thing i dont get is why have they skipped to O in the greek alphabet with the variant name?
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
There is a Epislon, just must be not as effective
First identified in California but was out-competed but existing variants so never took hold.
Post by: Beard82 on December 21, 2021, 09:41:32 AM
Yeah - I think this is the thing. Thankfully, much against the ruling classes perference, there is such as thing as community. A virus like this isnt about indiviuals, it is about a community, every decision your making impacts someone else. Its fine if you factor this into your decision making - which I know is what you are talking about, but unfortunately, this point is lost on a lot of people.I broadly agree with your first point. My issue is that there appears to be a growing number of people who will happily jeopardise everyone else whilst doing what they want.It does all make for a very awkward dilemma for many people. Of course we want to go to football on Boxing Day, but with numbers heading the way they are, many will have a tough call to make. I appreciate that the simple answer is ‘don’t go if you’re unsure’, but it’s not as easy as that is it?! Personally, I’d prefer the League to pull the games or make them close door games - either would be the right thing to do in my opinion.I don’t want to live in a country where the Government decide everything, there comes a point when individuals need to take responsibility for themselves.
There is enough information to enable you to make an informed decision and as you say if you are unsure......
Its like being in the Biltz, but not blacking your windows out - its not just your house that would get bombed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 21, 2021, 09:42:25 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2021, 09:44:40 AM
I know and that is part of the risk assessment, the frustration is that there is zero enforcement of the rules regarding face masks for example.It does all make for a very awkward dilemma for many people. Of course we want to go to football on Boxing Day, but with numbers heading the way they are, many will have a tough call to make. I appreciate that the simple answer is ‘don’t go if you’re unsure’, but it’s not as easy as that is it?! Personally, I’d prefer the League to pull the games or make them close door games - either would be the right thing to do in my opinion.I don’t want to live in a country where the Government decide everything, there comes a point when individuals need to take responsibility for themselves.
There is enough information to enable you to make an informed decision and as you say if you are unsure......
I broadly agree with your first point. My issue is that there appears to be a growing number of people who will happily jeopardise everyone else whilst doing what they want.
If there was then I am sure people would feel much more confident about getting on public transport.
Post by: amfy on December 21, 2021, 09:48:20 AM
It does all make for a very awkward dilemma for many people. Of course we want to go to football on Boxing Day, but with numbers heading the way they are, many will have a tough call to make. I appreciate that the simple answer is ‘don’t go if you’re unsure’, but it’s not as easy as that is it?! Personally, I’d prefer the League to pull the games or make them close door games - either would be the right thing to do in my opinion.I don’t want to live in a country where the Government decide everything, there comes a point when individuals need to take responsibility for themselves.
There is enough information to enable you to make an informed decision and as you say if you are unsure......
I know it’s ‘only money’ against a potentially significant health risk, but many people have paid £40/£50 each for several tickets which they won’t get back if the game is on.
It does become a factor for people. I hate to say it, but it was a factor in my decision to come down to Brum on Saturday that I’d spent about £170 on gig tickets and a hotel.
Also - things being on does send a message that it’s OK. Many people do make their own minds up that it’s not OK, but it is understandable for many people to think ‘If it wasn’t safe they’d call it off’.
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2021, 09:51:29 AM
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 10:04:49 AM
Post by: Ad@m on December 21, 2021, 10:20:15 AM
It does all make for a very awkward dilemma for many people. Of course we want to go to football on Boxing Day, but with numbers heading the way they are, many will have a tough call to make. I appreciate that the simple answer is ‘don’t go if you’re unsure’, but it’s not as easy as that is it?! Personally, I’d prefer the League to pull the games or make them close door games - either would be the right thing to do in my opinion.I don’t want to live in a country where the Government decide everything, there comes a point when individuals need to take responsibility for themselves.
There is enough information to enable you to make an informed decision and as you say if you are unsure......
I know it’s ‘only money’ against a potentially significant health risk, but many people have paid £40/£50 each for several tickets which they won’t get back if the game is on.
It does become a factor for people. I hate to say it, but it was a factor in my decision to come down to Brum on Saturday that I’d spent about £170 on gig tickets and a hotel.
Also - things being on does send a message that it’s OK. Many people do make their own minds up that it’s not OK, but it is understandable for many people to think ‘If it wasn’t safe they’d call it off’.
This is the thing for me aswell.
All things being equal, I obviously want to go on Boxing Day. I've got a season ticket so I've paid for it. But on the flip side, covid is so rife and people are generally such knob-heads, the risk of catching covid is huge, despite the fact I'm double-jabbed and boosted. If I catch it, there's much more chance of spreading it to my massively at risk family members.
So CL's view of life is that I need to choose - chuck my money away or run the risk of killing my family members. What a fucking choice.
Instead, where it comes down to public health, a competent government would mandate the simple things which would keep most people safe. But they won't and as a result, people will act like dicks. In as much as there's personal choice over the risk to take, there should be personal responsibility over keeping that risk to everyone as low as possible.
So I'm left crossing my fingers that someone somewhere make the decision for me so I don't have to choose. The Premier League have chosen money over safety, so I'm left with the government making a decision or the Villa convincing the Premier League we can't get a team out. But yesterday's Premier League meeting seems to have made that much less likely.
Overall, I'm not hopeful.
Post by: Smithy on December 21, 2021, 10:34:10 AM
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 10:41:19 AM
Post by: amfy on December 21, 2021, 10:45:23 AM
It's a daft rule. For example, do you select a player who's just recovered from COVID? Clubs have had to, but just because you're now negative and "fit" to play, doesn't mean you've recovered or 100%. What happens if you've recovered from delta and then pick up omicron in the dressing room because you've had to wait for your booster?
I’d guess that is the same as recovery from any other injury. They aren’t saying you can only count your covid isolations, they are asking if you can put a team out.
Post by: Drummond on December 21, 2021, 10:48:49 AM
It's a daft rule. For example, do you select a player who's just recovered from COVID? Clubs have had to, but just because you're now negative and "fit" to play, doesn't mean you've recovered or 100%. What happens if you've recovered from delta and then pick up omicron in the dressing room because you've had to wait for your booster?
If they are recovered to being fit, then yes they should play. However, if they aren't, I'm pretty sure the doc would sign a note to say they aren't yet fit.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2021, 10:49:14 AM
The only way this gets resolved, is if the club offers refunds for games that ticket holders decide not to attend because of Covid.
Surely you should write to Pouslow.
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
It's a daft rule. For example, do you select a player who's just recovered from COVID? Clubs have had to, but just because you're now negative and "fit" to play, doesn't mean you've recovered or 100%. What happens if you've recovered from delta and then pick up omicron in the dressing room because you've had to wait for your booster?
I’d guess that is the same as recovery from any other injury. They aren’t saying you can only count your covid isolations, they are asking if you can put a team out.
yeah but who decides that?
"yes we have player A who's now negative from COVID. He's been ill for 3 weeks and hasn't trained but could possibly go on the bench but wouldn't last 30 minutes"
The reality is he wouldn't be risked normally.
Post by: Ad@m on December 21, 2021, 10:52:51 AM
If it came losing money or risking my family then then that is an easy decision.
The only way this gets resolved, is if the club offers refunds for games that ticket holders decide not to attend because of Covid.
Surely you should write to Pouslow.
And how do you think that pans out?
Don't be so naive. I'm all for personal responsibility where the risk is only to you. But this is a public health matter so personal responsibility to everyone else is more important, and as one of about 3 people I saw wearing a mask at the last home game it's clear there's almost zero personal responsibility where anyone else is concerned.
Covid's going nowhere. So following your logic, I'm meant to give up my season ticket because knobheads can't wear a mask or get themselves vaccinated. Is that the selfish society we should aspire to live in?
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 10:56:16 AM
It's a daft rule. For example, do you select a player who's just recovered from COVID? Clubs have had to, but just because you're now negative and "fit" to play, doesn't mean you've recovered or 100%. What happens if you've recovered from delta and then pick up omicron in the dressing room because you've had to wait for your booster?
If they are recovered to being fit, then yes they should play. However, if they aren't, I'm pretty sure the doc would sign a note to say they aren't yet fit.
I dunno. Wasn't that what Tuchel was complaining about. Having to stick players on the bench who had just recovered from COVID and normally wouldn't be selected?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2021, 11:02:04 AM
as I said above, the problem is enforcement of the rules, there isn’t any although I am more concerned with getting to VP than being in the stands.If it came losing money or risking my family then then that is an easy decision.
The only way this gets resolved, is if the club offers refunds for games that ticket holders decide not to attend because of Covid.
Surely you should write to Pouslow.
And how do you think that pans out?
Don't be so naive. I'm all for personal responsibility where the risk is only to you. But this is a public health matter so personal responsibility to everyone else is more important, and as one of about 3 people I saw wearing a mask at the last home game it's clear there's almost zero personal responsibility where anyone else is concerned.
Covid's going nowhere. So following your logic, I'm meant to give up my season ticket because knobheads can't wear a mask or get themselves vaccinated. Is that the selfish society we should aspire to live in?
Unfortunately that is the society we live in.
Post by: amfy on December 21, 2021, 11:03:18 AM
It's a daft rule. For example, do you select a player who's just recovered from COVID? Clubs have had to, but just because you're now negative and "fit" to play, doesn't mean you've recovered or 100%. What happens if you've recovered from delta and then pick up omicron in the dressing room because you've had to wait for your booster?
I’d guess that is the same as recovery from any other injury. They aren’t saying you can only count your covid isolations, they are asking if you can put a team out.
yeah but who decides that?
"yes we have player A who's now negative from COVID. He's been ill for 3 weeks and hasn't trained but could possibly go on the bench but wouldn't last 30 minutes"
The reality is he wouldn't be risked normally.
& I think it’d be fairly easy to get a doctors note now. You cannot force players to play who haven’t recovered - that is where the risk of myocarditis lies. Following covid, even mild covid, many athletes are reporting higher heart rates on exertion following it. These players have to be allowed to recover and medically, that can be demonstrated if needed.
Post by: Ad@m on December 21, 2021, 11:13:07 AM
as I said above, the problem is enforcement of the rules, there isn’t any although I am more concerned with getting to VP than being in the stands.If it came losing money or risking my family then then that is an easy decision.
The only way this gets resolved, is if the club offers refunds for games that ticket holders decide not to attend because of Covid.
Surely you should write to Pouslow.
And how do you think that pans out?
Don't be so naive. I'm all for personal responsibility where the risk is only to you. But this is a public health matter so personal responsibility to everyone else is more important, and as one of about 3 people I saw wearing a mask at the last home game it's clear there's almost zero personal responsibility where anyone else is concerned.
Covid's going nowhere. So following your logic, I'm meant to give up my season ticket because knobheads can't wear a mask or get themselves vaccinated. Is that the selfish society we should aspire to live in?
Unfortunately that is the society we live in.
So "that is the society we live in" so tough shit for anyone who's either at risk or wants to protect someone who's at risk?
You might not want the government deciding how you live your life, but if "the society we live in" could show themselves to behave like grown ups and look after each other there'd be less need for the government to interfere.
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2021, 11:17:03 AM
I am just reflecting the reality that unfortunately we have too many selfish twats and absolutely no effective measures to deal with themas I said above, the problem is enforcement of the rules, there isn’t any although I am more concerned with getting to VP than being in the stands.If it came losing money or risking my family then then that is an easy decision.
The only way this gets resolved, is if the club offers refunds for games that ticket holders decide not to attend because of Covid.
Surely you should write to Pouslow.
And how do you think that pans out?
Don't be so naive. I'm all for personal responsibility where the risk is only to you. But this is a public health matter so personal responsibility to everyone else is more important, and as one of about 3 people I saw wearing a mask at the last home game it's clear there's almost zero personal responsibility where anyone else is concerned.
Covid's going nowhere. So following your logic, I'm meant to give up my season ticket because knobheads can't wear a mask or get themselves vaccinated. Is that the selfish society we should aspire to live in?
Unfortunately that is the society we live in.
So "that is the society we live in" so tough shit for anyone who's either at risk or wants to protect someone who's at risk?
You might not want the government deciding how you live your life, but if "the society we live in" could show themselves to behave like grown ups and look after each other there'd be less need for the government to interfere.
Your second sentence I agree with implicitly.
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 11:23:22 AM
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
Post by: chrisw1 on December 21, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I never understood that mentality either. Some Tory twat drove and had a picnic so I'm gonna kill my Granny
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 11:30:04 AM
Post by: Villan82 on December 21, 2021, 11:31:26 AM
I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
Johnson and the Tories have been a complete disaster on so many levels.
Post by: sid1964 on December 21, 2021, 11:49:07 AM
If only everyone had voted Labour!
Post by: algy on December 21, 2021, 12:20:39 PM
I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I think that's the thing. With it being quite clear that the Tories haven't been following their own rules, it makes it very difficult for them to impose them on anyone else. They've lost an awful lot of their authority.
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
I agree about Johnson, some of his decisions have been awful, if the Labour party had won the last election, coronavirus would no longer be in the UK and we would have all survivedIt wouldn't, and you know that, but I'd suggest that if you look at Scotland & Wales there's still significantly higher compliance rates with things like wearing masks, social distancing, etc etc. The overwhelming majority of people in those countries would/will support & follow stronger guidance if and when it comes in to play.
If only everyone had voted Labour!
English guidelines have felt messy & inconsistent (to someone who lives just over the border), and it's come as absolutely no surprise that COVID has returned and is utterly rife because, quite honestly, it's shocking. Went to Birmingham in the summer, and also for the Brighton home game. Was absolutely shocking how little regard for social distancing and mask wearing there was. Really made me, my dad, and my little girl all feel rather uncomfortable. We cancelled a trip we were going to make to the Christmas markets because, quite frankly, it felt far too risky in the circumstances. Contrasted with going to Cardiff last weekend, where most folk were wearing masks and you could socially distance pretty easily for the most part - I think there was maybe one shop where we had a few problems in that regard, but that was fairly unavoidable given it's layout and tbh I think they'd done the best they could in the circumstances.
Post by: amfy on December 21, 2021, 12:31:14 PM
I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I never understood that mentality either. Some Tory twat drove and had a picnic so I'm gonna kill my Granny
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
Yeah part of it is just cutting off your nose to spite your face
….but it’s also partially ‘why aren’t they worried about the things their telling us to worry about?’
…They told us if we mixed outside our bubbles and didn’t socially distance we were risking killing our granny (or being really ill ourselves) …so why aren’t they worried about those things?
It makes people think it’s all bullshit & I get that.
The same week as their little soirée in the garden at number 10 I stood outside my grandson’s funeral service. I hugged my stepson against advice because I just couldn’t bring myself not to, but I felt bad about it, & I know others in similar situations followed the rules to the letter whilst their hearts were broken. There were people who didn’t hug their mum when their dad died & they expect us to just accept that ‘wine & nibbles’ & kicking back for a while after a meeting is OK because it’s been so tough for them.
I’m still taking precautions I should, but there’s a big part of me thinking that if they say I can’t see my mum at Christmas I won’t take any notice. I’ll test, she’ll test, & we’ll carry on regardless because they would.
Sorry, I know it’s wrong but it’s how I feel. I know the pandemic is real but so am totally sick of their shit.
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 12:39:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 21, 2021, 12:43:25 PM
I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I never understood that mentality either. Some Tory twat drove and had a picnic so I'm gonna kill my Granny
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
That's not right though is it, I don't agree with it, but the argument is all about the government making it look like they've overstated the risks on purpose as a means of control. If you've convinced yourself of that then ignoring lockdowns is a protest rather than a risk. The logic is a fucking mess but I understand how people get there. This is a big part of the problem of lumping scientists and doctors alongside politicians as the 'elite' in a manufactured culture war, it means people lose trust in every voice they hear and fill the gaps with 'common sense'. This is the real danger of twats like Farage and Trump, they break things that are actually important with their bullshit.
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I think that's the thing. With it being quite clear that the Tories haven't been following their own rules, it makes it very difficult for them to impose them on anyone else. They've lost an awful lot of their authority.
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......I agree about Johnson, some of his decisions have been awful, if the Labour party had won the last election, coronavirus would no longer be in the UK and we would have all survivedIt wouldn't, and you know that, but I'd suggest that if you look at Scotland & Wales there's still significantly higher compliance rates with things like wearing masks, social distancing, etc etc. The overwhelming majority of people in those countries would/will support & follow stronger guidance if and when it comes in to play.
If only everyone had voted Labour!
English guidelines have felt messy & inconsistent (to someone who lives just over the border), and it's come as absolutely no surprise that COVID has returned and is utterly rife because, quite honestly, it's shocking. Went to Birmingham in the summer, and also for the Brighton home game. Was absolutely shocking how little regard for social distancing and mask wearing there was. Really made me, my dad, and my little girl all feel rather uncomfortable. We cancelled a trip we were going to make to the Christmas markets because, quite frankly, it felt far too risky in the circumstances. Contrasted with going to Cardiff last weekend, where most folk were wearing masks and you could socially distance pretty easily for the most part - I think there was maybe one shop where we had a few problems in that regard, but that was fairly unavoidable given it's layout and tbh I think they'd done the best they could in the circumstances.
Since the pandemic began, Wales has got a higher rate of cases per head of the population than England. Considering the relative population densities that's impossible to defend. Merthyr has got the 3rd highest case rate of any local authority area in the UK.
Post by: sickbeggar on December 21, 2021, 12:50:03 PM
I mean......is it just me?
Post by: chrisw1 on December 21, 2021, 12:50:56 PM
Is it not a myth that Wales and Scotland have fared better than England during Covid? I don't have stats to hand etc, but given the population density and international nature of London would skew figures, do the Welsh and Scots really have anything to shout about here?I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I think that's the thing. With it being quite clear that the Tories haven't been following their own rules, it makes it very difficult for them to impose them on anyone else. They've lost an awful lot of their authority.
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......I agree about Johnson, some of his decisions have been awful, if the Labour party had won the last election, coronavirus would no longer be in the UK and we would have all survivedIt wouldn't, and you know that, but I'd suggest that if you look at Scotland & Wales there's still significantly higher compliance rates with things like wearing masks, social distancing, etc etc. The overwhelming majority of people in those countries would/will support & follow stronger guidance if and when it comes in to play.
If only everyone had voted Labour!
English guidelines have felt messy & inconsistent (to someone who lives just over the border), and it's come as absolutely no surprise that COVID has returned and is utterly rife because, quite honestly, it's shocking. Went to Birmingham in the summer, and also for the Brighton home game. Was absolutely shocking how little regard for social distancing and mask wearing there was. Really made me, my dad, and my little girl all feel rather uncomfortable. We cancelled a trip we were going to make to the Christmas markets because, quite frankly, it felt far too risky in the circumstances. Contrasted with going to Cardiff last weekend, where most folk were wearing masks and you could socially distance pretty easily for the most part - I think there was maybe one shop where we had a few problems in that regard, but that was fairly unavoidable given it's layout and tbh I think they'd done the best they could in the circumstances.
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2021, 12:54:09 PM
Is it not a myth that Wales and Scotland have fared better than England during Covid? I don't have stats to hand etc, but given the population density and international nature of London would skew figures, do the Welsh and Scots really have anything to shout about here?
Wales has the worst case rate and the worst death rate of the nations that make up the UK.
Post by: Beard82 on December 21, 2021, 01:06:08 PM
Exactly - its the "i think we've all heard enough of experts" thing.I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I never understood that mentality either. Some Tory twat drove and had a picnic so I'm gonna kill my Granny
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
That's not right though is it, I don't agree with it, but the argument is all about the government making it look like they've overstated the risks on purpose as a means of control. If you've convinced yourself of that then ignoring lockdowns is a protest rather than a risk. The logic is a fucking mess but I understand how people get there. This is a big part of the problem of lumping scientists and doctors alongside politicians as the 'elite' in a manufactured culture war, it means people lose trust in every voice they hear and fill the gaps with 'common sense'. This is the real danger of twats like Farage and Trump, they break things that are actually important with their bullshit.
Post by: Nev on December 21, 2021, 01:09:45 PM
Exactly - its the "i think we've all heard enough of experts" thing.I was a bit depressed last night watching the news seeing those shoppers being interviewed saying they'd ignore lockdown because "those tories are laughing at us/one rule for them etc.." End of the day they'd didn't come up with the medical advice so it all seems a bit "if I die, that will show them!"I never understood that mentality either. Some Tory twat drove and had a picnic so I'm gonna kill my Granny
Not that I want a lockdown, but people are just thick......
That's not right though is it, I don't agree with it, but the argument is all about the government making it look like they've overstated the risks on purpose as a means of control. If you've convinced yourself of that then ignoring lockdowns is a protest rather than a risk. The logic is a fucking mess but I understand how people get there. This is a big part of the problem of lumping scientists and doctors alongside politicians as the 'elite' in a manufactured culture war, it means people lose trust in every voice they hear and fill the gaps with 'common sense'. This is the real danger of twats like Farage and Trump, they break things that are actually important with their bullshit.
And then the national broadcaster interviewing people like Duncan Smith on a subject he knows little or nothing about in comparison to a Dr.
Fucking dangerous.
Post by: Towser on December 21, 2021, 02:35:06 PM
Post by: Ad@m on December 21, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
I wish I could bottle leadership because it's so rare in this country you'd make a fortune!
Post by: Clampy on December 21, 2021, 03:02:54 PM
So Scotland and Wales have banned spectators from sporting events but in England we're told it's safe to crack on...
I wish I could bottle leadership because it's so rare in this country you'd make a fortune!
We'll follow suit I reckon in the next couple of days.
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 21, 2021, 03:08:45 PM
So Scotland and Wales have banned spectators from sporting events but in England we're told it's safe to crack on...
I wish I could bottle leadership because it's so rare in this country you'd make a fortune!
We'll follow suit I reckon in the next couple of days.
I agree think Chelsea and Leeds no supporters, and some kind of no mixing from 27th December
Post by: Chris Smith on December 21, 2021, 03:09:26 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 21, 2021, 03:29:39 PM
I’m already weighing up whether I’m going to bother on Boxing Day. I’d say it’s about 50/50 at the moment.
I'd decided Saturday not to go about 10 mins before they called it off, I won't go on Boxing Day now.
Post by: Richard E on December 21, 2021, 03:38:34 PM
Post by: amfy on December 21, 2021, 03:50:14 PM
He will be even worse if it isn’t called off & we decide not to go!
Post by: London Villan on December 21, 2021, 04:28:02 PM
Post by: Dave P on December 21, 2021, 04:30:01 PM
I'm almost hoping it does get postponed or played being closed doors because it is such a toss kick off time. If it's on I shall still turn up , though.
This is where I am too.
Post by: London Villan on December 21, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Post by: Dominic22 on December 21, 2021, 05:20:46 PM
I have tickets for Leeds and Brentford but the thought of 2000 villa fans in those concourses pre-game and after seems madness. We still don't know if Villa will have a team available as there is no news but Brentford are rumored to have 13 positive cases.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 21, 2021, 06:16:34 PM
Wales has the worst case rate and the worst death rate of the nations that make up the UK.
Labour government, innit? ;)
Post by: Chris Harte on December 21, 2021, 06:50:52 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 21, 2021, 07:05:03 PM
Post by: algy on December 21, 2021, 07:42:43 PM
Is it not a myth that Wales and Scotland have fared better than England during Covid? I don't have stats to hand etc, but given the population density and international nature of London would skew figures, do the Welsh and Scots really have anything to shout about here?
Wales has the worst case rate and the worst death rate of the nations that make up the UK.
Don't really want to get in to a big politics discussion on a non-politics thread, but ...
Not sure that's a helpful comparison though. Healthcare outcomes are strongly influenced by things like income (average wage in Wales is significantly lower than almost all English regions - ONS (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8456/)). There's also geography to consider, it's not uncommon for someone in Wales to be 30miles+ away from the nearest A&E department (e.g. Bala's nearest is Wrexham Maelor, 30miles away - Llandrindod is 40+ miles to Hereford ... And these are obvs not along motorways, so you're looking at 1hr+ journey time each way).
But one thing that is noticeable is that, at least from the folk in Wales that I know - is the general feeling that the English approach has been at best poor, at worst a disaster. And this isn't highly political, one side group of folk - this is across people who are pro & anti Brexit in roughly equal measure, who vote Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, and Plaid between them. It can hardly be considered anti-English sentiment when near enough half that group are English.
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2021, 08:12:21 PM
Is it not a myth that Wales and Scotland have fared better than England during Covid? I don't have stats to hand etc, but given the population density and international nature of London would skew figures, do the Welsh and Scots really have anything to shout about here?
Wales has the worst case rate and the worst death rate of the nations that make up the UK.
Don't really want to get in to a big politics discussion on a non-politics thread, but ...
Not sure that's a helpful comparison though. Healthcare outcomes are strongly influenced by things like income (average wage in Wales is significantly lower than almost all English regions - ONS (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8456/)). There's also geography to consider, it's not uncommon for someone in Wales to be 30miles+ away from the nearest A&E department (e.g. Bala's nearest is Wrexham Maelor, 30miles away - Llandrindod is 40+ miles to Hereford ... And these are obvs not along motorways, so you're looking at 1hr+ journey time each way).
But one thing that is noticeable is that, at least from the folk in Wales that I know - is the general feeling that the English approach has been at best poor, at worst a disaster. And this isn't highly political, one side group of folk - this is across people who are pro & anti Brexit in roughly equal measure, who vote Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, and Plaid between them. It can hardly be considered anti-English sentiment when near enough half that group are English.
Overall healthcare outcomes might be, but the biggest factor in Covid is surely population density and spreading it to others. I've got family in deepest darkest Gwynedd, and the remoteness is a positive factor in stopping the spread of Covid, not a factor that helps it.
But anyway, I don't think any major country in Europe can really say they've coped with the pandemic well.
Post by: waringpongo on December 21, 2021, 08:17:45 PM
Post by: Ads on December 21, 2021, 08:20:32 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on December 21, 2021, 08:31:04 PM
Drakeford hasn't done a very good job of it then has he.Not really paid attention to Wales & Scotland. Has Drakeford done worse that Johnson? That would be an achievement.
Post by: waringpongo on December 21, 2021, 09:31:57 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on December 21, 2021, 09:55:56 PM
My usual mode of transport in the cross city rail line from Selly Oak, Northfield or Bournville to Aston. Many of these will be cancelled and the carriages are a pox spreader at the best of times. As my sister put it, may as well fly economy to Malaga if you want to be poxed up double quick time.
Post by: Ads on December 21, 2021, 10:13:03 PM
The thing is Drakeford would not put friends wealth before the health of a nation and that makes him a far superior leader and person no matter what the scores on the crem doors are. The fact as the other poster put is that because of infrastructure, localities and an aged nation you can’t compare like for like. Add in a mass influx of tourists after the first lockdown all thinking it was all over and you have a Kevin Friend type of result.
Ah so the Welsh having the worst death rate is the fault of the English. Righto.
Post by: Chris Smith on December 21, 2021, 10:24:05 PM
I've decided to give it a miss, and I was very much looking forward to this game.
My usual mode of transport in the cross city rail line from Selly Oak, Northfield or Bournville to Aston. Many of these will be cancelled and the carriages are a pox spreader at the best of times. As my sister put it, may as well fly economy to Malaga if you want to be poxed up double quick time.
No trains at all on Boxing Day.
Post by: adrenachrome on December 21, 2021, 11:09:12 PM
I've decided to give it a miss, and I was very much looking forward to this game.
My usual mode of transport in the cross city rail line from Selly Oak, Northfield or Bournville to Aston. Many of these will be cancelled and the carriages are a pox spreader at the best of times. As my sister put it, may as well fly economy to Malaga if you want to be poxed up double quick time.
No trains at all on Boxing Day.
Of course! Should have remembered taxi rides of the past.
My brother is going in my place. He got poxed up this time last year and is a hardy individual. On the downside he has lost his sense of taste and has developed an aversion to all spicy foods.
Post by: Villafirst on December 22, 2021, 04:26:16 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 22, 2021, 06:15:52 AM
I see the Government are cutting the isolation period from 10 down to 7 days with negative lateral flow tests on days 6 and 7.
That'll help, I'm sure.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 22, 2021, 06:19:09 AM
I see the Government are cutting the isolation period from 10 down to 7 days with negative lateral flow tests on days 6 and 7.
That'll help, I'm sure.
Its needed. The staff shortages in some sectors is causing huge problems.
Post by: Scott Nielsen on December 22, 2021, 06:23:50 AM
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
There was definitely a 'Mu', because I posted some extremely witty KLF puns at the time
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211006/mu-made-splash-disappeared-quietly
Yes, they skipped Nu (to avoid confusion with 'new') as well as Xi (for obvious reasons).
Post by: Demitri_C on December 22, 2021, 07:22:13 AM
There was no Epislon( this what omicron should have been called aftwe delta) Zeta, Eta, Thea, iota, Kappa Lambda, Mu which were all the letters after delta. As a greek, would love to know why these were left out!
There was definitely a 'Mu', because I posted some extremely witty KLF puns at the time
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211006/mu-made-splash-disappeared-quietly
Yes, they skipped Nu (to avoid confusion with 'new') as well as Xi (for obvious reasons).
Thanks i was really curious why!
Post by: Ads on December 22, 2021, 08:08:49 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on December 22, 2021, 08:59:54 AM
We know the English response has been mostly poor, other than the vaccine development, procurement and rollout. But it's smoke and mirrors that Wales and Scotland has been better. The amount of smoke blown up Sturgeon's backside, particularly early on, was unbelievable. The truth is she's a better communicator than Boris and for a lot of Scots I presume more likeable. But their outcomes are no different to England’s, despite her posturing and mischief making throughout. The perception on the outcomes of the 3 nations is down to likeability and political allegiance more than reality.Is it not a myth that Wales and Scotland have fared better than England during Covid? I don't have stats to hand etc, but given the population density and international nature of London would skew figures, do the Welsh and Scots really have anything to shout about here?
Wales has the worst case rate and the worst death rate of the nations that make up the UK.
Don't really want to get in to a big politics discussion on a non-politics thread, but ...
Not sure that's a helpful comparison though. Healthcare outcomes are strongly influenced by things like income (average wage in Wales is significantly lower than almost all English regions - ONS (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8456/)). There's also geography to consider, it's not uncommon for someone in Wales to be 30miles+ away from the nearest A&E department (e.g. Bala's nearest is Wrexham Maelor, 30miles away - Llandrindod is 40+ miles to Hereford ... And these are obvs not along motorways, so you're looking at 1hr+ journey time each way).
But one thing that is noticeable is that, at least from the folk in Wales that I know - is the general feeling that the English approach has been at best poor, at worst a disaster. And this isn't highly political, one side group of folk - this is across people who are pro & anti Brexit in roughly equal measure, who vote Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, and Plaid between them. It can hardly be considered anti-English sentiment when near enough half that group are English.
Post by: chrisw1 on December 22, 2021, 09:02:07 AM
IF the science is that people are no longer infectious after 7 days then yes it will. Enormously.I see the Government are cutting the isolation period from 10 down to 7 days with negative lateral flow tests on days 6 and 7.
That'll help, I'm sure.
Post by: waringpongo on December 22, 2021, 09:41:25 AM
The rollout of the vaccine in Wales was way ahead of England after a slow start. In fact it was second in the world for a while. As for covid deaths England is higher if you look a the internationally-recognised system for adjusting for age, what's called an age standardised mortality figure, things are very different. This method creates a comparable figure to show how many deaths a country would have had if it had the same percentage of people in each age group. This adjustment doesn't take into account the type of work the older male population did. Wales is also hamstrung in the fact that it doesn't have sole autonomy and they have to work with decisions made in Westminster.We know the English response has been mostly poor, other than the vaccine development, procurement and rollout. But it's smoke and mirrors that Wales and Scotland has been better. The amount of smoke blown up Sturgeon's backside, particularly early on, was unbelievable. The truth is she's a better communicator than Boris and for a lot of Scots I presume more likeable. But their outcomes are no different to England’s, despite her posturing and mischief making throughout. The perception on the outcomes of the 3 nations is down to likeability and political allegiance more than reality.Is it not a myth that Wales and Scotland have fared better than England during Covid? I don't have stats to hand etc, but given the population density and international nature of London would skew figures, do the Welsh and Scots really have anything to shout about here?
Wales has the worst case rate and the worst death rate of the nations that make up the UK.
Don't really want to get in to a big politics discussion on a non-politics thread, but ...
Not sure that's a helpful comparison though. Healthcare outcomes are strongly influenced by things like income (average wage in Wales is significantly lower than almost all English regions - ONS (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8456/)). There's also geography to consider, it's not uncommon for someone in Wales to be 30miles+ away from the nearest A&E department (e.g. Bala's nearest is Wrexham Maelor, 30miles away - Llandrindod is 40+ miles to Hereford ... And these are obvs not along motorways, so you're looking at 1hr+ journey time each way).
But one thing that is noticeable is that, at least from the folk in Wales that I know - is the general feeling that the English approach has been at best poor, at worst a disaster. And this isn't highly political, one side group of folk - this is across people who are pro & anti Brexit in roughly equal measure, who vote Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, and Plaid between them. It can hardly be considered anti-English sentiment when near enough half that group are English.
Post by: Ian. on December 22, 2021, 09:42:15 AM
I see the Government are cutting the isolation period from 10 down to 7 days with negative lateral flow tests on days 6 and 7.
What would help is raising the £14 a day statutory sick pay to convince people to actually see if their cold is the virus or not. I really don’t understand how the government expect people to lose two thirds of their monthly income for fear of having the virus, especially now the symptoms are like the common cold.
Post by: Ad@m on December 22, 2021, 09:43:05 AM
IF the science is that people are no longer infectious after 7 days then yes it will. Enormously.I see the Government are cutting the isolation period from 10 down to 7 days with negative lateral flow tests on days 6 and 7.
That'll help, I'm sure.
I think it's a pretty small window of time where someone is infectious but returns a negative LFT if the LFT is administered properly.
So there's logic to the theory but it relies on the LFTs being done properly and I have zero confidence in the government that they'll require anything more than someone just opening an LFT and uploading it to the government website, whether they've used it or not.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 22, 2021, 09:55:53 AM
Post by: paul_e on December 22, 2021, 09:59:33 AM
IF the science is that people are no longer infectious after 7 days then yes it will. Enormously.I see the Government are cutting the isolation period from 10 down to 7 days with negative lateral flow tests on days 6 and 7.
That'll help, I'm sure.
I think it's a pretty small window of time where someone is infectious but returns a negative LFT if the LFT is administered properly.
So there's logic to the theory but it relies on the LFTs being done properly and I have zero confidence in the government that they'll require anything more than someone just opening an LFT and uploading it to the government website, whether they've used it or not.
What's the alternative though? Video yourself taking it? Spy drones everywhere?
Trusting people to be honest is something that just has to happen because the alternatives are far worse.
Post by: Ad@m on December 22, 2021, 11:10:14 AM
There would still be the risk of getting a different person to do the test, but that's a much lower risk than someone just submitting an unused test.
Post by: OCD on December 22, 2021, 12:00:43 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on December 22, 2021, 12:15:50 PM
In the press conference, Gerrard said (without a glimmer of irony) that he hopes "we can continue to post some positive results for our supporters."
lolz
Post by: Lucky Eddie on December 22, 2021, 01:17:42 PM
The rollout of the vaccine in Wales was way ahead of England after a slow start. In fact it was second in the world for a while. As for covid deaths England is higher if you look a the internationally-recognised system for adjusting for age, what's called an age standardised mortality figure, things are very different. This method creates a comparable figure to show how many deaths a country would have had if it had the same percentage of people in each age group. This adjustment doesn't take into account the type of work the older male population did. Wales is also hamstrung in the fact that it doesn't have sole autonomy and they have to work with decisions made in Westminster.We know the English response has been mostly poor, other than the vaccine development, procurement and rollout. But it's smoke and mirrors that Wales and Scotland has been better. The amount of smoke blown up Sturgeon's backside, particularly early on, was unbelievable. The truth is she's a better communicator than Boris and for a lot of Scots I presume more likeable. But their outcomes are no different to England’s, despite her posturing and mischief making throughout. The perception on the outcomes of the 3 nations is down to likeability and political allegiance more than reality.Is it not a myth that Wales and Scotland have fared better than England during Covid? I don't have stats to hand etc, but given the population density and international nature of London would skew figures, do the Welsh and Scots really have anything to shout about here?
Wales has the worst case rate and the worst death rate of the nations that make up the UK.
Don't really want to get in to a big politics discussion on a non-politics thread, but ...
Not sure that's a helpful comparison though. Healthcare outcomes are strongly influenced by things like income (average wage in Wales is significantly lower than almost all English regions - ONS (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8456/)). There's also geography to consider, it's not uncommon for someone in Wales to be 30miles+ away from the nearest A&E department (e.g. Bala's nearest is Wrexham Maelor, 30miles away - Llandrindod is 40+ miles to Hereford ... And these are obvs not along motorways, so you're looking at 1hr+ journey time each way).
But one thing that is noticeable is that, at least from the folk in Wales that I know - is the general feeling that the English approach has been at best poor, at worst a disaster. And this isn't highly political, one side group of folk - this is across people who are pro & anti Brexit in roughly equal measure, who vote Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, and Plaid between them. It can hardly be considered anti-English sentiment when near enough half that group are English.
Direct comparisons of home nations is naive and unhelpful.
The Scots and the Welsh have additional powers denied to midlanders. They can tinker to suit whilst blaming the government for poor overall performance.
Post by: waringpongo on December 22, 2021, 01:39:54 PM
Post by: algy on December 22, 2021, 02:21:00 PM
Exactly. You can't compare like for like. The difference is the Senedd is looking at saving lives and the Tories are driven by greed.I agree completely.
Post by: eamonn on December 22, 2021, 03:47:15 PM
In the press conference, Gerrard said (without a glimmer of irony) that he hopes "we can continue to post some positive results for our supporters."
lolz
He worked on captions and headlines during work-experience at the Liverpool Echo in 1995.
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2021, 04:14:59 PM
Brilliant for the supporters that, cheers Premier League. C***s.
Post by: waringpongo on December 22, 2021, 04:18:52 PM
Diolch a Nadolig LlawenExactly. You can't compare like for like. The difference is the Senedd is looking at saving lives and the Tories are driven by greed.I agree completely.
Post by: Richard E on December 22, 2021, 04:51:24 PM
Exactly. You can't compare like for like. The difference is the Senedd is looking at saving lives and the Tories are driven by greed.
That's over-simplistic and Manichean. The world is not that binary. If it was the case then the Tories wouldn't have imposed lockdowns last year which literally made it illegal to leave your house unless you could show a good reason, shutting down vast swathes of the economy and resulting in vast injections of public funds like the furlough scheme.
Post by: paul_e on December 22, 2021, 05:03:09 PM
Gerrard: "we've got lots of tests before the match and anything can happen."
Brilliant for the supporters that, cheers Premier League. C***s.
The 1 big positive here is that the change to 7 days means every player who was positive by Burnley is now available again (probably). If we've managed to avoid any new infections that'll mean a mostly full squad to pick from.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2021, 05:13:18 PM
Gerrard: "we've got lots of tests before the match and anything can happen."
Brilliant for the supporters that, cheers Premier League. C***s.
The 1 big positive here is that the change to 7 days means every player who was positive by Burnley is now available again (probably). If we've managed to avoid any new infections that'll mean a mostly full squad to pick from.
Is it a positive though? If the players' contracted Covid and fell ill from it (rather than just being asymptomatic), are they really going to be available and able to hit the ground running for 90mins against a side who are reigning European Champions in just a 7 day turnaround?
I very much doubt it, and along with the fact of how quickly the games come along over xmas break, it's a fucking huge risk to the players' health surely?!
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2021, 05:13:57 PM
Gerrard: "we've got lots of tests before the match and anything can happen."
Brilliant for the supporters that, cheers Premier League. C***s.
The 1 big positive here is that the change to 7 days means every player who was positive by Burnley is now available again (probably). If we've managed to avoid any new infections that'll mean a mostly full squad to pick from.
Is it a positive though? If the players' contracted Covid and fell ill from it (rather than just being asymptomatic), are they really going to be available and able to hit the ground running for 90mins against a side who are reigning European Champions in just a 7 day turnaround?
I very much doubt it, and along with the fact of how quickly the games come along over xmas break, it's a fucking huge risk to the players' health surely?!
Post by: paul_e on December 22, 2021, 05:19:31 PM
Gerrard: "we've got lots of tests before the match and anything can happen."
Brilliant for the supporters that, cheers Premier League. C***s.
The 1 big positive here is that the change to 7 days means every player who was positive by Burnley is now available again (probably). If we've managed to avoid any new infections that'll mean a mostly full squad to pick from.
Is it a positive though? If the players' contracted Covid and fell ill from it (rather than just being asymptomatic), are they really going to be available and able to hit the ground running for 90mins against a side who are reigning European Champions in just a 7 day turnaround?
I very much doubt it, and along with the fact of how quickly the games come along over xmas break, it's a fucking huge risk to the players' health surely?!
it's positive compared to having to play them anyway but with a bits and pieces side. You're also assuming that the players were symptomatic, given we planned to play the game until the morning I'd suggest the results came as a bit of a surprise so they've probably all been twiddling their thumbs at home waiting to get back to training.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 22, 2021, 05:24:21 PM
Post by: OCD on December 22, 2021, 05:31:18 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 22, 2021, 06:13:36 PM
Post by: Ads on December 22, 2021, 06:19:15 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 22, 2021, 07:08:41 PM
Anybody out from Saturday will be able to play if they're negative on Crhostmas Day and Boxing Day for an LFT.if vaccinated?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2021, 07:13:02 PM
Depends how bad the symptoms are, if they’ve had it like I have (still recovering 3 weeks on) they won’t be running around for a while.but most of them will not have symptoms.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 22, 2021, 07:14:57 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 22, 2021, 07:20:59 PM
What training will the absentees have been able to do? Not really ideal to have missed a week of it in the run-up to facing the European Champions. I imagine we've been putting modern technology and players' broadband connectivity through their paces.they've been on the hub all day
Post by: Gareth on December 22, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Is that Foden & Grealish?What training will the absentees have been able to do? Not really ideal to have missed a week of it in the run-up to facing the European Champions. I imagine we've been putting modern technology and players' broadband connectivity through their paces.they've been on the hub all day
Post by: Towser on December 23, 2021, 12:14:27 PM
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 23, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
The game at Leeds must be in severe jeopardy too. If they can't put out a team on Sunday surely nothing will change by Tuesday?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2021, 12:34:01 PM
I presume if majority of our squad test negative we can train tomorrow afternoon and then on xmas day given the Burnley test results were conducted on the Friday morning and isolation has been cut to 7 days now so I think Chelsea will go ahead unless they've had another outbreak but not ideal preparation.
Post by: Steve67 on December 23, 2021, 12:46:42 PM
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 23, 2021, 12:50:33 PM
If it wasn't for the money, they should just take the winter break now and all take a month off. An unpopular view I know but at least it might end some of the uncertaincy.
It makes complete sense but Sky / BT Sport / Amazon Prime will be putting all the pressure they can on the Premier League for this not to happen.
Money talks as we know.
Hopefully good sense will prevail though.
Post by: Gareth on December 23, 2021, 01:07:06 PM
Same as with the talk about losing 2nd legs or League Cup semis or FA cup replays that is purely and simply to create gaps in the schedule should Amazon round of games be lost after Christmas so the league can protect the Amazon income.
Post by: JD on December 24, 2021, 06:00:08 AM
Post by: Villafirst on December 24, 2021, 06:33:10 AM
Post by: Richard E on December 24, 2021, 06:55:35 AM
Will ST holders be getting another questionnaire to fill in for the Chelsea game? Similar to what we got for the Burnley game. Obviously an NHS Covid pass will be required.
ST holders only have to fill it in once so if you did it for Burnley you’re fine.
Post by: Demitri_C on December 24, 2021, 07:37:56 AM
Just another excuse to help the likes of chelsea, liverpool and city who have greater strength depth
If its a temporary measure for 4 weeks then can live with it but if its permanent then its simply is helping the big clubs again
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 24, 2021, 08:00:55 AM
Post by: ozzjim on December 24, 2021, 08:13:16 AM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 24, 2021, 08:39:18 AM
For an industry that makes so much money their decision making and forward planning is totally wank
Post by: Des Little on December 24, 2021, 09:11:24 AM
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on December 24, 2021, 09:17:34 AM
Gerrard: "we've got lots of tests before the match and anything can happen."
Brilliant for the supporters that, cheers Premier League. C***s.
[/quotfe]Are they going to call off the match 2 hours before kick off again? More long distance wasted journeys. Funny though, I would feel less sympathy for Chelsea fans than I did for the Burnley fans.
Post by: Mister E on December 24, 2021, 09:29:46 AM
No, 'cos it's on TV. The Boxing Day will get played!Gerrard: "we've got lots of tests before the match and anything can happen."Are they going to call off the match 2 hours before kick off again? More long distance wasted journeys. Funny though, I would feel less sympathy for Chelsea fans than I did for the Burnley fans.
Brilliant for the supporters that, cheers Premier League. C***s.
Same may well be true of the Leeds game, too.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 24, 2021, 09:50:22 AM
for years they've been talking about the possibility of a winter break - this would have been the perfect year to bring it in.
For an industry that makes so much money their decision making and forward planning is totally wank
We have a winter break. Last season's got scrapped, but the first one was the season before that. It takes some spotting as not everyone gets the same weekend off. It's spread over two weekends with the intention of giving everyone at least 13 days off. 23rd of January to the 7th of February this season, although this time that does cover an international break for some countries.
Post by: algy on December 24, 2021, 10:00:28 AM
5 subs? interesting, they need to make their mind up... on one hand they're saying "we haven't got enough players" - now they saying "we want to use more subs"....Surely that's incompatible with 13 fit players + a keeper? You can't have one club able to make 5 subs (plus the concussion one?) And the other only able to make 3. Specially when the supposed reason for 5 subs is to deal with exhaustion, clearly implying that 3 subs isn't enough for that.
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on December 24, 2021, 10:07:16 AM
Will they bring back the mid-half one minute rest that they had last season? That was ridiculous.5 subs? interesting, they need to make their mind up... on one hand they're saying "we haven't got enough players" - now they saying "we want to use more subs"....Surely that's incompatible with 13 fit players + a keeper? You can't have one club able to make 5 subs (plus the concussion one?) And the other only able to make 3. Specially when the supposed reason for 5 subs is to deal with exhaustion, clearly implying that 3 subs isn't enough for that.
Post by: The Edge on December 24, 2021, 10:13:14 AM
Post by: AGRIPPA on December 24, 2021, 10:15:18 AM
Will they bring back the mid-half one minute rest that they had last season? That was ridiculous.5 subs? interesting, they need to make their mind up... on one hand they're saying "we haven't got enough players" - now they saying "we want to use more subs"....Surely that's incompatible with 13 fit players + a keeper? You can't have one club able to make 5 subs (plus the concussion one?) And the other only able to make 3. Specially when the supposed reason for 5 subs is to deal with exhaustion, clearly implying that 3 subs isn't enough for that.
You mean the ad break??
Post by: Gareth on December 24, 2021, 10:55:16 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 24, 2021, 11:07:56 AM
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 24, 2021, 12:09:39 PM
There's no way that we can put the same team out for both games on 26th and 28th but if we knew that the Leeds game is off before we play Chelsea then that surely would have some influence on the selection for the Chelsea game.
The Premier League needs to play fair by us here.
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 24, 2021, 12:34:53 PM
The Premier League needs to play fair by us here.]
Yeah don't hold your breath
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 24, 2021, 12:56:13 PM
Post by: brontebilly on December 24, 2021, 01:05:56 PM
5 subs? interesting, they need to make their mind up... on one hand they're saying "we haven't got enough players" - now they saying "we want to use more subs"....
PL need to stand firm on this one. Kloppo was whinging big time on 5 subs last season until it was pointed out he was barely rotating the players he did have available. 5 subs turns the last 10 minutes of games into a bit of a farce and allows the bigger clubs to hang onto bigger squads.
Post by: OCD on December 24, 2021, 01:09:20 PM
Post by: Steve67 on December 24, 2021, 01:36:16 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 24, 2021, 01:42:06 PM
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 24, 2021, 02:35:04 PM
Some suggestion that Norwich fielded a player vs us with a very height temperature and Dean knew about it. I sincerely that’s not true as it would be massively irresponsible and negligent.
Yes, Gilmour. Dean confirmed this at his press conference today. He'd given a negative Covid test so he played.
Not sure that's the brightest decision Dean has made tbh.
Post by: paul_e on December 24, 2021, 02:48:53 PM
5 substitutes only benefits the sides who have big squads and puts clubs with smaller squads at a disadvantage.
I'm not sure that's true. Yes they have more quality to bring on but look at how often the bigger teams win late in games because tiredness creeps in with the opposition and gaps start to appear, 2 extra subs helps the 'smaller' team as much as the big team in that scenario. i don't remember the extra subs making anything like as much difference as some people thought when we had them after the restart.
I might be wrong but I honestly don't think it's about the big teams wanting to be able to bring on more firepower, I think it's the opposite, it's them wanting to rest more people if the game is done after an hour.
Post by: OCD on December 24, 2021, 03:03:01 PM
Post by: Risso on December 24, 2021, 03:15:06 PM
5 substitutes only benefits the sides who have big squads and puts clubs with smaller squads at a disadvantage.
I'm not sure that's true. Yes they have more quality to bring on but look at how often the bigger teams win late in games because tiredness creeps in with the opposition and gaps start to appear, 2 extra subs helps the 'smaller' team as much as the big team in that scenario. i don't remember the extra subs making anything like as much difference as some people thought when we had them after the restart.
I might be wrong but I honestly don't think it's about the big teams wanting to be able to bring on more firepower, I think it's the opposite, it's them wanting to rest more people if the game is done after an hour.
I was against it, but now I'm not sure it would be so bad for us. Teams like Man City are used to having two world class players (at least) for every spot, and players go there well aware of that. We often hear when transfers are concerned "why would he come to Villa to be back up to x player?" More subs would give us the opportuniy to attract a higher calibre of player, possibly.
Post by: exigo on December 24, 2021, 03:58:50 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 24, 2021, 04:53:29 PM
Some suggestion that Norwich fielded a player vs us with a very height temperature and Dean knew about it. I sincerely that’s not true as it would be massively irresponsible and negligent.
Yes, Gilmour. Dean confirmed this at his press conference today. He'd given a negative Covid test so he played.
Not sure that's the brightest decision Dean has made tbh.
Brings slightly different perspective to when Gerrard said he had brought Carney on to get around Gilmour because he was having too much of the ball….hopefully he didn’t get too close after all
Post by: luke95 on December 24, 2021, 06:35:46 PM
Some suggestion that Norwich fielded a player vs us with a very height temperature and Dean knew about it. I sincerely that’s not true as it would be massively irresponsible and negligent.He also said he was tested negative.
Post by: BC Villain on December 24, 2021, 08:44:13 PM
Post by: charleeco7 on December 25, 2021, 06:19:03 PM
Post by: martin o`who?? on December 25, 2021, 06:20:48 PM
Post by: darren woolley on December 25, 2021, 06:30:28 PM
Post by: BC Villain on December 25, 2021, 08:45:30 PM
The premier league didn't even listen to the managers at the Monday meeting according to Conte and Deano.Fait accompli.
It's the Premier League. Nothing must compromise the wellbeing of their wallets
Post by: achilles on December 25, 2021, 08:59:15 PM
Even if he did test negative for covid, I would have thought Smith and Norwich would have exercised a little common sense and pulled the player from the squad with a temperature that high.
Norwich are in a dog fight and want their best players on the pitch, he tested negative, so he played, move on!
Post by: KNVillan on December 26, 2021, 01:33:32 PM
Club now saying Tuesdays Leeds Utd game off because of COVID
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/december/26/leeds-united-v-aston-villa-postponed/
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on December 26, 2021, 01:48:43 PM
Post by: yammers on December 26, 2021, 01:53:00 PM
BBC Sport say that Tuesday is off because of Covid at Leeds. So they do postpone tv matches.
But do they cancel Sky Sports TV matches?!
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 26, 2021, 01:55:12 PM
BBC Sport say that Tuesday is off because of Covid at Leeds. So they do postpone tv matches.
But do they cancel Sky Sports TV matches?!
Hulls game was on Sky and that's gone.
Post by: olaftab on December 26, 2021, 01:59:24 PM
I am pleased they didn’t because the sky 4/5/6 whatever number all they wanted was 5 subs. Player welfare sorry no. They are privileged young man under not a lot of duress. It’s people like my neighbours who have been working non stop for 18 months as a nurse and a paramedic and looking after two young children on top. That’s hard shift.The premier league didn't even listen to the managers at the Monday meeting according to Conte and Deano.Fait accompli.
It's the Premier League. Nothing must compromise the wellbeing of their wallets
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 26, 2021, 02:00:00 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on December 26, 2021, 02:30:52 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 26, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
BBC Sport say that Tuesday is off because of Covid at Leeds. So they do postpone tv matches.
But do they cancel Sky Sports TV matches?!
Hulls game was on Sky and that's gone.
To the disappointment of dozens
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 26, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
Hopefully Brentford away will be o.k but you never know in these times.
Post by: rougegorge on December 26, 2021, 09:29:49 PM
In the Trinity road middle tier, I couldn't see any random checks on anyone taking place.
Post by: Chris Harte on December 26, 2021, 09:34:56 PM
Watching at home because I didn't attend because I didn't fancy catching Covid, it was clear from the number of empty seats that that wasn't the number of people present, but instead the number of seats sold.
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 26, 2021, 09:39:44 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 26, 2021, 11:58:36 PM
Watching at home because I didn't attend because I didn't fancy catching Covid, it was clear from the number of empty seats that that wasn't the number of people present, but instead the number of seats sold.
As it always is, for all clubs.
Post by: olaftab on December 27, 2021, 12:02:31 AM
Out of interest, did many people get checked for their Covid pass today?North Stand covid pass check was 100%. They were scanning the QR as well.
In the Trinity road middle tier, I couldn't see any random checks on anyone taking place.
Post by: Clampy on December 27, 2021, 10:56:26 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 27, 2021, 11:01:55 AM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on December 27, 2021, 11:02:52 AM
Post by: exigo on December 27, 2021, 11:12:12 AM
Post by: supertom on December 27, 2021, 12:47:07 PM
After Brentford it's difficult games against Utd and Everton (A). I'm just mindful of momentum really, as the Chelsea game feels a bit of a pisser now. But hopefully by the time we come round to actually playing the delayed fixtures, we're still seeing the same improvement we have since Gerrard took over.
Short version...
Fuck covid.
Post by: London Villan on December 27, 2021, 01:16:08 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on December 27, 2021, 01:24:36 PM
We will have a couple of new faces and bailey back hopefully.
Bailey. 20 minutes a month for how much ?
Post by: TonyD on December 27, 2021, 01:33:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 27, 2021, 02:30:18 PM
However, at the LTR turnstile themselves I saw no checking of wristbands or passes/tests
Post by: BlackCountryVilla on December 27, 2021, 07:58:21 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 27, 2021, 07:59:03 PM
I was expecting a nightmare but we just walked in with no checks at all.worrying, really
Post by: colin69 on December 27, 2021, 08:49:44 PM
It’s a tick box exercise, they don’t give a shit about us. No one checked my covid pass, but some goon on the turnstile asked me to undo the zip on my coat.I was expecting a nightmare but we just walked in with no checks at all.worrying, really
I’m 52 and not sure what I’m going to hide under my coat…may have been more worthwhile to check my phone…
Post by: London Villan on December 27, 2021, 09:55:17 PM
Post by: luke95 on December 27, 2021, 10:01:08 PM
They were checking most going into Upper North 15 mins prior to kick offIt’s a tick box exercise, they don’t give a shit about us. No one checked my covid pass, but some goon on the turnstile asked me to undo the zip on my coat.I was expecting a nightmare but we just walked in with no checks at all.worrying, really
I’m 52 and not sure what I’m going to hide under my coat…may have been more worthwhile to check my phone…
Post by: eamonn on December 28, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
It’s the same for the security checks - which have now stopped. Half hearted check of a bag or a coat. But an 8 year old with a bottle top…Agreed that it's a concern.
I normally go in armed only with a packet of wine gums but on this occasion after having a drink by the car before the game, I got into the ground after my security check with my bottle shaped "It's beer o'clock somewhere" bottle opener which is the size of a 330ml bottle pretty much.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 28, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
It’s the same for the security checks - which have now stopped. Half hearted check of a bag or a coat. But an 8 year old with a bottle top…
I now just walk in holding my plastic bottle of water (complete with cap) in my hand.
Have it in your coat and they take an interest in the cap, have it openly in your hand and it doesn't seem to register with them.
Who is it on here that is/was one of the stewards ?
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2021, 12:43:08 PM
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Post by: Richard on December 28, 2021, 01:07:59 PM
When is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Doubt it as we are playing on the 10th and 15th.
Post by: richtheholtender on December 28, 2021, 01:27:20 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 28, 2021, 01:31:28 PM
Is there any reason why we couldn't play Burnley today? Leeds villa got cancelled because of Leeds end, United Burnley is due to be played on Thursday so assuming all is OK now in the Burnley camp. They can't say its unfair on Burnley to play on Tuesday Thursday because that's the same variance between villa v Chelsea and villa v leeds
Think of the logistics of putting a match on at three days notice.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 28, 2021, 02:17:23 PM
When is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Doubt it as we are playing on the 10th and 15th.
I think that's when it'll be. If UEFA don't relax their tv monopoly rule that nobody plays at the same time as the champions league, we're losing the midweek Tuesday/Wednesday dates on
15/16&22/23 of February,
8/9&15/16 of March,
5/6&12/13&26/27 of April,
3/4 of May.
Plus there's the PL midwinter break between the 23rd of January up until 4th round weekend on the 5th of February. And everybody is scheduled to play that following midweek already.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 28, 2021, 03:23:18 PM
Post by: Flin5tone on December 28, 2021, 07:43:24 PM
It was a very strange atmosphere on Boxing Day with empty seats all over the stadium which was sad to see. A mixture of people with Covid and those worried about the Virus and maybe a few who are against Vaccination/Test Passports put many off.
There were people checking for passes outside of the Holte End and I saw about 2 people wearing a Face Covering.
Post by: richtheholtender on December 28, 2021, 08:34:41 PM
Post by: exigo on December 28, 2021, 09:10:51 PM
When is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 28, 2021, 10:00:59 PM
Not on mineWhen is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
Post by: Gareth on December 28, 2021, 10:07:33 PM
So the Newcastle game is off tomorrow at Newcastles request. Didn't look like their first team was massively effected by covid so they've basically been allowed to call it off because of normal injuries to their 2 best players. They should be playing that.Doubt that is the case as PL have turned down some requests to postpone games - those two went down as did Schar at the end so those 3 probs as a minimum out probs took them through the threshold.
Post by: Ad@m on December 28, 2021, 10:14:31 PM
Not on mineWhen is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
It's showing on mine.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 28, 2021, 10:18:14 PM
Not on mineWhen is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
It's showing as next match on my account as well. Not a season ticket holder but had match ticket for it. No official announcement yet so wonder if it is just a holding date or something?
Post by: Ads on December 28, 2021, 10:54:21 PM
Post by: eamonn on December 29, 2021, 12:15:40 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 29, 2021, 12:29:35 AM
Post by: exigo on December 29, 2021, 11:00:40 AM
Not on mineWhen is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
It's showing as next match on my account as well. Not a season ticket holder but had match ticket for it. No official announcement yet so wonder if it is just a holding date or something?
There's still 1200 tickets left for Man U away, on sale to all STHs tonight. Would imagine they'll want to shift those first before announcing the Burnley game two days later, and the assumption of a reserve team for the Cup.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 29, 2021, 11:23:29 AM
Post by: exigo on December 29, 2021, 04:46:05 PM
Are you suggesting that everyone that could possibly publish news of this fixture, the Premier League, Burnley, the whole of social media and the internet, is in on keeping it secret just so's we can shift a few tickets?
I'm suggesting that Villa are holding back on the announcement, exactly like my post said. There are a fair few people commenting on it on social media.
Post by: amfy on December 29, 2021, 04:58:50 PM
Are you suggesting that everyone that could possibly publish news of this fixture, the Premier League, Burnley, the whole of social media and the internet, is in on keeping it secret just so's we can shift a few tickets?
I'm suggesting that Villa are holding back on the announcement, exactly like my post said. There are a fair few people commenting on it on social media.
On Twitter the club have responded to a query about it and said something like they needed to put a date in the computer in order to process refunds...but that isn’t the date of the game.
Post by: john e on December 29, 2021, 05:10:53 PM
Not on mineWhen is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
It's showing as next match on my account as well. Not a season ticket holder but had match ticket for it. No official announcement yet so wonder if it is just a holding date or something?
There's still 1200 tickets left for Man U away, on sale to all STHs tonight. Would imagine they'll want to shift those first before announcing the Burnley game two days later, and the assumption of a reserve team for the Cup.
There’s three less now
Hope it goes to general sale because I could do with another one
Post by: exigo on December 29, 2021, 07:31:48 PM
Are you suggesting that everyone that could possibly publish news of this fixture, the Premier League, Burnley, the whole of social media and the internet, is in on keeping it secret just so's we can shift a few tickets?
I'm suggesting that Villa are holding back on the announcement, exactly like my post said. There are a fair few people commenting on it on social media.
On Twitter the club have responded to a query about it and said something like they needed to put a date in the computer in order to process refunds...but that isn’t the date of the game.
Thanks Amfy
Post by: charlatan on December 29, 2021, 10:23:48 PM
Better be a holding date. We'll get shafted twice by Manure that week without worrying about these clodhoppers.
Should free up FA Cup fourth round weekend. Can Burnley's reserves lose to Huddersfield though?
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2021, 11:15:42 AM
Not on mineWhen is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
It's showing as next match on my account as well. Not a season ticket holder but had match ticket for it. No official announcement yet so wonder if it is just a holding date or something?
There's still 1200 tickets left for Man U away, on sale to all STHs tonight. Would imagine they'll want to shift those first before announcing the Burnley game two days later, and the assumption of a reserve team for the Cup.
There’s three less now
Hope it goes to general sale because I could do with another one
Only 6 left now I'm afraid.
Post by: john e on December 30, 2021, 11:47:03 AM
Not on mineWhen is the Burnley game being played?
Did someone mention the 12th Jan?
Log into your upcoming tickets if you're a season ticket holder, and it's down as Wednesday 12 January, 8pm.
It's showing as next match on my account as well. Not a season ticket holder but had match ticket for it. No official announcement yet so wonder if it is just a holding date or something?
There's still 1200 tickets left for Man U away, on sale to all STHs tonight. Would imagine they'll want to shift those first before announcing the Burnley game two days later, and the assumption of a reserve team for the Cup.
There’s three less now
Hope it goes to general sale because I could do with another one
Only 6 left now I'm afraid.
Yeah didn’t think there would be much chance to be fair
I’ve got an older son who lives in Manchester who is not a season ticket holder so I’ll have to try other ways
All my family support Man United so I could do what i’ve done before, sit with my cousin in the Stretford end
I saw Grealish turn that one into the corner from there while my kids were Up in the away end
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 30, 2021, 11:49:29 AM
Post by: lovejoy on December 30, 2021, 01:06:20 PM
Post by: charlatan on December 30, 2021, 03:57:24 PM
2 games in 48 hours is clearly too many
Why? A slightly elevated risk of injury (in which case why not bin headers, slide tackles, etc?) or simply not having a full complement of optimally rested players? It hardly compares with great endurance events (grand tours and so on). And obviously it's the same for both teams unless one feels it has bigger fish to fry....
Post by: Ad@m on December 30, 2021, 08:03:01 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59830127
Genius!!
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2021, 08:09:24 PM
Not Villa-related, but the EFL have decided that the best way to solve the problem of games being cancelled due to players testing positive on match day is to just not test players on match day.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59830127
Genius!!
I can sort of see where they're coming from though. All that appears to have happened in the last 3-4 weeks is that non-symptomatic players have been tested and found to have it and are then required to isolate. There have probably been loads of non-symptomatic but positive players this season, but this panic over the Omicron variant seems to have been a bit of an over-reaction.
Post by: Ad@m on December 30, 2021, 08:14:21 PM
And it's got sod all to do with match going fans, but rather to ensure the TV companies don't have to deal with a short-notice cancellation and the impact on advertising revenue, etc.
Post by: lovejoy on December 30, 2021, 08:17:57 PM
2 games in 48 hours is clearly too many
Why? A slightly elevated risk of injury (in which case why not bin headers, slide tackles, etc?) or simply not having a full complement of optimally rested players? It hardly compares with great endurance events (grand tours and so on). And obviously it's the same for both teams unless one feels it has bigger fish to fry....
There simply not enough physical recovery time. This isn’t an endurance event like the Tour.