collapse collapse

Please donate to help keep this site going.

The Fanzine

Heroes & Villains Fanzine

Get your fix of all things Claret & Blue by subscribing to the online version!

* H&V Best Of

Follow us on...

Author Topic: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation and usual butter ollocks thread  (Read 233276 times)

Offline olaftab

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28744
  • Location: Castle Bromwich
  • GM : 22.04.2020
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #255 on: December 03, 2019, 09:57:00 PM »
Loans are shit.

Mings
Tuanzebe
Abraham
El Ghazi

What a collective waste of time that was eh?
Yes they are because we trained two  of them and now they are benefitting our rivals and the other two cost a fair few bobs after being given game time by us. I don't like loans.

Offline themossman

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9059
  • Location: Bristol
  • GM : 22.02.2021
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #256 on: December 03, 2019, 10:24:20 PM »
But they wouldn’t be our rivals if we hadn’t had those players.

Offline DB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3228
  • Location: Absolute zero
  • GM : 11.01.2021
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #257 on: December 03, 2019, 11:20:45 PM »
What is really the difference between a loan and a contracted player? Most players only stay at a clubs for a few years anyway, and for us, if do have decent player, sooner or later he will leave if one of CL clubs come in for him. At least with a loan, we can send them back after a shorter time if they are shit.

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 11123
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #258 on: December 04, 2019, 12:04:45 AM »
What is really the difference between a loan and a contracted player? Most players only stay at a clubs for a few years anyway, and for us, if do have decent player, sooner or later he will leave if one of CL clubs come in for him. At least with a loan, we can send them back after a shorter time if they are shit.

It is the short term nature of loans which is the difference I suppose.  As we saw last season, they can be very beneficial if there is an immediate short term goal (ie. going up or staying up) and there is then a plan in place to build from there.

Offline ChicagoLion

  • Member
  • Posts: 9405
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #259 on: December 04, 2019, 12:42:24 AM »
What is really the difference between a loan and a contracted player? Most players only stay at a clubs for a few years anyway, and for us, if do have decent player, sooner or later he will leave if one of CL clubs come in for him. At least with a loan, we can send them back after a shorter time if they are shit.
How many successful ( teams that win stuff) teams rely on loan players?

Online SheffieldVillain

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2293
  • Location: Poland
  • GM : 17.02.2021
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #260 on: December 04, 2019, 01:05:59 AM »
What is really the difference between a loan and a contracted player? Most players only stay at a clubs for a few years anyway, and for us, if do have decent player, sooner or later he will leave if one of CL clubs come in for him. At least with a loan, we can send them back after a shorter time if they are shit.
How many successful ( teams that win stuff) teams rely on loan players?


Bayern Munich - Coutinho, Perisic
PSG - Rico, Icardi
Man City - Scott Carson (not a first teamer obviously)

All have loan players in their squad. Chelsea, with all their wealth, last season had Kovacic on loan which they've now turned into a permanent. While not saying it's ideal, it would be silly to rule the possibility out completely. If a loan fits a given situation, then why not?

As an example, if Chelsea had their transfer ban overturned, bought in two big name strikers and said they'd loan Abraham out to us for the rest of the season, should we turn that down on principle? (unlikely I know, but just an example).

Offline Clampy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23147
  • Location: warley
  • GM : PCM
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #261 on: December 04, 2019, 06:56:44 AM »
Loans are shit.

Mings
Tuanzebe
Abraham
El Ghazi

What a collective waste of time that was eh?
Yes they are because we trained two  of them and now they are benefitting our rivals and the other two cost a fair few bobs after being given game time by us. I don't like loans.

But they all played a massive part in getting us promoted, so they were very effective.

Offline ChicagoLion

  • Member
  • Posts: 9405
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #262 on: December 04, 2019, 07:55:51 AM »
What is really the difference between a loan and a contracted player? Most players only stay at a clubs for a few years anyway, and for us, if do have decent player, sooner or later he will leave if one of CL clubs come in for him. At least with a loan, we can send them back after a shorter time if they are shit.
How many successful ( teams that win stuff) teams rely on loan players?


Bayern Munich - Coutinho, Perisic
PSG - Rico, Icardi
Man City - Scott Carson (not a first teamer obviously)

All have loan players in their squad. Chelsea, with all their wealth, last season had Kovacic on loan which they've now turned into a permanent. While not saying it's ideal, it would be silly to rule the possibility out completely. If a loan fits a given situation, then why not?

As an example, if Chelsea had their transfer ban overturned, bought in two big name strikers and said they'd loan Abraham out to us for the rest of the season, should we turn that down on principle? (unlikely I know, but just an example).
Point taken, I would suggest that what a Good manager wants is a settled squad with the nucleus of the team with 2 + years left on their contracts. This looks like the model that DS is aiming for.
They have stated that the policy is not to loan players which I agree with, but I am sure that there are circumstances that a loan may be a necessary.

Offline chrisw1

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
  • GM : 20.08.2020
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #263 on: December 04, 2019, 08:38:03 AM »
Loans are shit.

Mings
Tuanzebe
Abraham
El Ghazi

What a collective waste of time that was eh?
Yes they are because we trained two  of them and now they are benefitting our rivals and the other two cost a fair few bobs after being given game time by us. I don't like loans.
The Baggies didn't loan these players and didn't get promoted.  But at least they didn't have to pay over the odds for Mings so they're having the last laugh now, right?

Offline West Derby Villan

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8436
  • Location: Turn left junction 21A
  • GM : 03.05.2019
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #264 on: December 04, 2019, 08:47:52 AM »
Loans are shit.

Mings
Tuanzebe
Abraham
El Ghazi

What a collective waste of time that was eh?
Yes they are because we trained two  of them and now they are benefitting our rivals and the other two cost a fair few bobs after being given game time by us. I don't like loans.
The Baggies didn't loan these players and didn't get promoted.  But at least they didn't have to pay over the odds for Mings so they're having the last laugh now, right?

DS said we may of paid over the odds but since his transfer his worth has doubled and for what it's worth FTA

Offline dave.woodhall

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 51919
  • Location: Treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry.
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #265 on: December 04, 2019, 09:18:37 AM »
Loans are shit.

Mings
Tuanzebe
Abraham
El Ghazi

What a collective waste of time that was eh?
Yes they are because we trained two  of them and now they are benefitting our rivals and the other two cost a fair few bobs after being given game time by us. I don't like loans.

So you'd rather we hadn't signed them and we were playing Barnsley tonight?

Offline themossman

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9059
  • Location: Bristol
  • GM : 22.02.2021
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #266 on: December 04, 2019, 10:39:39 AM »
There’s two sides to it imo. The commercial aspect where permanent signings are an asset that you can develop and loans are someone else’s asset you are developing (or, injuring, etc.)

But I think that argument goes away when it comes to promotion from the championship, because the financial benefits of promotion dwarf any increase in transfer values you’ve foregone.

Then there’s the emotional side and I definitely agree that cheering on ‘our’ players is qualitatively different. But I think it’s a bit of a false distinction anyway. With a few exceptions all players are mercenaries and encouraged to think that way by the economics of football. As an example, just thinking of the last few years, I’d consider Snodgrass more of a villa man than Delph based on his relationship with the fans/squad and his contribution on and off the pitch.

Offline hilts_coolerking

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12837
  • Location: Kennington
  • GM : 26.07.2020
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #267 on: December 04, 2019, 10:43:43 AM »
Loans are shit.

Mings
Tuanzebe
Abraham
El Ghazi

What a collective waste of time that was eh?
Yes they are because we trained two  of them and now they are benefitting our rivals and the other two cost a fair few bobs after being given game time by us. I don't like loans.

But they all played a massive part in getting us promoted, so they were very effective.

Exactly.  We were rightly more concerned with promotion than whether we would improve another club's players.

Offline dave.woodhall

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 51919
  • Location: Treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry.
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #268 on: December 04, 2019, 10:48:05 AM »
We improved players from our 'rivals' (except they weren't rivals then, and still wouldn't be without the plasyers in question). They in turn improved our whole club. Who's the loser?

Offline Drummond

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17677
  • Age: 48
  • GM : 11.10.2020
Re: Winter transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #269 on: December 04, 2019, 11:16:30 AM »
I agree I'd rather not have to loan players but it worked brilliantly for us last season and without them we'd be in the Championship.

If we can get a player that improves the squad, with a view to a permanent deal, then loans are a good idea.