Douglas Luiz - coming back?

[Smithy]

Our best performance - Arsenal away was without Luiz and Kamara . Arsenal were bang in form and full strength.
The C115y game was fantastic but they were missing the big players - Rodri KDB etc .

I don't give a shit about individual games.

Otherwise we are still wanking over the Barkley performance in the 7-2 v Liverpool. 

I am looking at consistent performances.

And over the course of the season Tielemans got 3 goals & 7 assists.

Compared to 10 goals & 10 assists for Douglas Luiz.

Both had good parts to their season, both had shit.

Its only opinion that Douglas Luiz best was world class & Tielemans was only decent, but even if we give excuses to both players for their shit periods, it's an indisputable fact that Douglas Luiz had a stronger season overall.

I think Dougie is brilliant, verging on becoming a genuine world-class talent these days, but those stats only make sense if you take into account the fact that he played roughly twice as many minutes as Tielemens last season.  (3,000 vs 1,600 minutes in the league, for example).  So by all means, argue for goals and assists to be the metric to determine who had a better season, but when you take into account their actual playing time on the pitch, they're actually very similar (and Youri doesn't take penalties).

[pablo_picasso]

i don't give a shit about stats that aren't like for like.
Luiz probably played far more games than Tielemans .

Yes, & that usually happens when one player is better than the other...

[Risso]

Our best performance - Arsenal away was without Luiz and Kamara . Arsenal were bang in form and full strength.
The C115y game was fantastic but they were missing the big players - Rodri KDB etc .

I see "a few games" has now been reduced to one game. Even then, we only played really well for half of it. Not much of a pattern. Even the most basic analysis shows that, on average, we do far better with Luiz and Kamara on the team.

I think the key to that is Kamara though. I think if it was Kamara and Tielemans playing the same number of games, the results would be similar.

I absolutely don't want to lose Luiz, although I can see if selling a player to give us a PSR headroom is necessary, Luiz makes sense.

[cdbearsfan]

Yeah, we need a like for like replacement for Kamara, playing behind Luiz and quite possibly Tielemans too. Luiz was brilliant in front of him last season. If we have to sell, it should be for a fee that reflects how good he can be, not for some Leeds reject and whatever loose change Juventus have left over from their latest bribe.

[Dante Lavelli]

For me there were signs once he'd adapted that Tielemans might reach a higher level than Luiz with us.

This is ridiculously subjective but Luiz has an arrogance/swagger that means he can run games whereas tielemans is at his best once the midfield is in control.

Tielemans might lack the pace/energy to be the grafter as well as a playmaker. Doug can do both.

[simboy]

Anyone recall if there is a "sell on" clause with Ci£eh?

[pablo_picasso]

Our best performance - Arsenal away was without Luiz and Kamara . Arsenal were bang in form and full strength.
The C115y game was fantastic but they were missing the big players - Rodri KDB etc .

I don't give a shit about individual games.

Otherwise we are still wanking over the Barkley performance in the 7-2 v Liverpool. 

I am looking at consistent performances.

And over the course of the season Tielemans got 3 goals & 7 assists.

Compared to 10 goals & 10 assists for Douglas Luiz.

Both had good parts to their season, both had shit.

Its only opinion that Douglas Luiz best was world class & Tielemans was only decent, but even if we give excuses to both players for their shit periods, it's an indisputable fact that Douglas Luiz had a stronger season overall.

Yeah but Doug has been here from the start, didn't have to adapt, and takes the penalties.

And I'd say it's only the last 18months anyone would have Doug above Youri, career wise.

For me there were signs once he'd adapted that Tielemans might reach a higher level than Luiz with us.

Mate, I do not disagree with you at all. Before Emery got his hands on Douglas Luiz, I used to call him a "Jack of all trades, master of fuck all" & I wouldn't have been bothered if he had been sold.

My view on Watkins was pretty similar.

But since Emery came in, some players have excelled & Douglas Luiz & Watkins are the main two.

My view on both players have evolved as they have.

I don't agree so much on Tielemans reaching a higher level than when Douglas Luiz was at the top of his game though. When Kamara & Luiz were playing together earlier in the season, those games were magnnificent. We certainly dropped off in the second half of the season as the injuries & squad size caught up with us.

But we still managed to work out results, & I acknowledge & respect that Tielemans was a part of that.

But I don't think anybody, even Tielemans or Douglas Luiz, could really get a string of consistently good performances together.

I think even the Duracell Bunny Watkins started to run out of juice by the end of the season.

Who knows, in a fitter stronger squad, Tielemans might excel to the levels that Douglas Luiz did at the beginning of last season.

And for Villas sake, I certainly hope he does...👍

[pablo_picasso]

I think Dougie is brilliant, verging on becoming a genuine world-class talent these days, but those stats only make sense if you take into account the fact that he played roughly twice as many minutes as Tielemens last season.  (3,000 vs 1,600 minutes in the league, for example).  So by all means, argue for goals and assists to be the metric to determine who had a better season, but when you take into account their actual playing time on the pitch, they're actually very similar (and Youri doesn't take penalties).

Fair enough point.

His minutes over the season across all competitions is pretty much double. 4352 for Douglas Luiz & 2713 for Tielemans.

I still stand by the fact that he played double the minutes a sign that he is the better player these days, under Emery.

I for one would be gutted to lose him.

[cdbearsfan]

I'm not really sure how it's evolved into a Luiz vs Tielemans argument, anyway, when we can quite clearly play both. Surely nobody is going to make a claim that McKennie or Barkley are a better option than Luiz?

[Risso]

I'd be gutted to lose any of them, as I want to see them all in the Champions League they've worked so hard to achieve, but

Who else is it going to be if we HAVE to sell a big name player? Selling Watkins or Martinez just isn't an option in my opinion, as I think it'd be nigh on impossible to replace them without really setting us back in the short term at least. Ramsey would be another option, but he's just missed most of the season with a knacked foot, a problem he's still suffering from. Nobody else would bring in the sort of returns it looks like we might need.

[cdbearsfan]

If it has to be Luiz, pick up the phone to Arsenal and get a proper fee. If Juventus want an exchange I'll be interested in Chiesa or Locatelli, not some player they've been desperate to get rid of for about the last eight transfer windows. They're our rivals now, let's not help them out.

[Olneythelonely]

Romano insinuating it’s a done deal.

[cdbearsfan]

What does Iling do?

[eamonn]

How many pens did Luiz score last season? And did he only miss one...y'know, that one?

[Risso]

If it has to be Luiz, pick up the phone to Arsenal and get a proper fee. If Juventus want an exchange I'll be interested in Chiesa or Locatelli, not some player they've been desperate to get rid of for about the last eight transfer windows. They're our rivals now, let's not help them out.

Maybe Arsenal don't want him now they have Rice, or can't afford him? There certainly doesn't seem to be the rush for anybody to spend £100m+ that there was last year. Maybe Unai has seen something in McKennie he really likes?