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Author Topic: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed confirmed  (Read 472664 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #465 on: July 26, 2019, 01:39:01 PM »
Is it that common? I think the idea is implied but actually outright stating ownership isn't something I can recall seeing all that often. I think phrases like "we've got him" and "he's one of us" are common, along with various deviations around those ideas but "we own him" doesn't come up all that often (in my opinion).

Well the players are assets on a balance sheet (or their registrations are) so that's where the ownership idea comes from.  You heard a lot about 'ownership' when it was third party, like the Tevez and Mascherano cases.

Offline Tuscans

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #466 on: July 26, 2019, 01:40:47 PM »
Manchester City have a buy-back clause inserted into the transfer agreement for Douglas Luiz.

The Brazilian midfielder completed his move to Aston Villa in an initial £15million deal yesterday, with another £1million to be earned in add-ons if the 21-year-old proves to be a success.

That ended a frustrating two years for Luiz with the Blues , as he was unable to get a work permit and ended up spending two seasons on loan at sister club Girona.

Luiz is likely to fall foul of the same rule when Villa apply for a permit, but the Midlands club are confident that the appeal process will work in their favour.

The appeal works on a points system, with points available if the transfer fee or wages are suitably high, in a bid to prevent less wealthy clubs being disadvantaged when pursuing foreign players.

 
Luiz will earn appeal points if his salary, as is likely, is in the top 25 per cent on Villa’s wage structure.


City did not want to sell Luiz – in fact last summer Pep Guardiola expressed his frustration at being unable to give the holding midfielder an opportunity to stake a claim as number two to Fernandinho.

So a buyback clause was inevitable, although neither club is revealing any details about what that entails.


Sources close to Villa claim that it is likely to be heavily stacked in their favour, and on an escalating scale, with talk of it being £25million next summer and £30million the year after.

But that does not fit with City’s recent strategy.

They sold Angelino for £5million last year and bought him back for around £5.35million last month – and it would be no great surprise if the terms of Luiz’s deal are along similar lines.

Offline Villa75

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #467 on: July 26, 2019, 02:16:39 PM »
Come on. It's a loan deal in all but name.

The BIG difference is, Man City are paying US to have him on loan. 😂

Online paul_e

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #468 on: July 26, 2019, 02:24:46 PM »
Is it that common? I think the idea is implied but actually outright stating ownership isn't something I can recall seeing all that often. I think phrases like "we've got him" and "he's one of us" are common, along with various deviations around those ideas but "we own him" doesn't come up all that often (in my opinion).

Well the players are assets on a balance sheet (or their registrations are) so that's where the ownership idea comes from.  You heard a lot about 'ownership' when it was third party, like the Tevez and Mascherano cases.

That's about the context where I could think of 'ownership' being outright discussed. I might be wrong but I just can't think of a time where I've heard it said about a new signing before. I don't have a problem with it because I think it's clear that it means we own his registration not him I'm just not sure it's 'standard footballspeak' which was the specific thing I was replying to.

Offline not3bad

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #469 on: July 26, 2019, 02:35:18 PM »
Sources close to Villa claim that it is likely to be heavily stacked in their favour, and on an escalating scale, with talk of it being £25million next summer and £30million the year after.

But that does not fit with City’s recent strategy.

They sold Angelino for £5million last year and bought him back for around £5.35million last month – and it would be no great surprise if the terms of Luiz’s deal are along similar lines.

Well I certainly hope it's nearer to the first estimation than what happened with Angelino! My guess it will be somewhere between the two though.

Online paul_e

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #470 on: July 26, 2019, 02:47:10 PM »
I don't think you can draw comparisons between this one and Angelino. The latter was available to play for them so keeping him if they didn't get the deal they wanted wasn't a problem. With Douglas he had to leave, either on loan or permanently, but on loan did nothing to get him a work permit unless he got a Brazil call up and played every game, 2 years of taking that route has pushed them into a weaker position.

Offline OCD

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #471 on: July 26, 2019, 02:58:57 PM »
There's been weeks of negotiating, likely over this clause. We've obviously ended up with a deal that we're happy with so there's likely to be a good return factored in.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #472 on: July 26, 2019, 03:08:50 PM »
And in the end what does it really matter? He will be playing for us this season. That’s ultimately the most important thing.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #473 on: July 26, 2019, 03:13:48 PM »
Well, it does matter, because if he has a good season, and this clause exists, they can contractually buy him back.

That's something which definitely makes a difference - because if he does have a great season, and they like the look of him, we have no choice but to sell him to them for a pre-arranged price after one season.

If that does happen people aren't going to be on here saying what a good deal it was and be happy it panned out that way, you can bet on that.

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #474 on: July 26, 2019, 03:21:39 PM »
Well, it does matter, because if he has a good season, and this clause exists, they can contractually buy him back.

That's something which definitely makes a difference - because if he does have a great season, and they like the look of him, we have no choice but to sell him to them for a pre-arranged price after one season.

If that does happen people aren't going to be on here saying what a good deal it was and be happy it panned out that way, you can bet on that.

I doubt you’d have gotten him for anywhere near £15 million without a clause being included.

I can see the advantages to us, not least because it allows us to squeeze our war chest that little bit further.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #475 on: July 26, 2019, 03:23:36 PM »
My point is none of us know the specific details of the clause. It’s all speculation. And secondly, if Jack or Trezeguet or AEG have a brilliant year then what’s to stop Man City it anyone else coming in for them? A contract doesn’t determine how long a player will stay at a club. It just gives us leverage when time comes to sell them. In this case our leverage if the clause is to be believed is pre determined and allowed us to get a player realistically worth a lot more in today’s market, for relatively speaking, a very low price.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 03:29:43 PM by Toronto Villa »

Offline Smirker

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #476 on: July 26, 2019, 03:26:56 PM »
At the end of the day we've got what appears to be a very good player who will play for us for at least a season, worst case scenario is we go down but him leaving is the least of our troubles if that happens. Stay up and he is sold back to them and we will be in a much stronger position to buy a replacement. If we stay up and he has a shit season then tbh who cares, we stayed up and we didn't break the bank to sign him.

That's my take on it.

Now let's drink some caipirinha and do a little samba dance.

Offline jwarry

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #477 on: July 26, 2019, 03:29:36 PM »
At the end of the day we've got what appears to be a very good player who will play for us for at least a season, worst case scenario is we go down but him leaving is the least of our troubles if that happens. Stay up and he is sold back to them and we will be in a much stronger position to buy a replacement. If we stay up and he has a shit season then tbh who cares, we stayed up and we didn't break the bank to sign him.

That's my take on it.

Now let's drink some caipirinha and do a little samba dance.

And Big Wes has got a mate to boot

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #478 on: July 26, 2019, 04:19:14 PM »
And in the end what does it really matter? He will be playing for us this season. That’s ultimately the most important thing.


And if he ever wants to get back to City, that'll only happen if he's a cut above just about every other player in his position in the division.

None of us is privy to these clauses, it's all guesswork. But unlike in the past, I now very much doubt we'll be getting our pants pulled down.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Douglas Luiz - Confirmed
« Reply #479 on: July 26, 2019, 04:20:13 PM »
My point is none of us know the specific details of the clause. It’s all speculation. And secondly, if Jack or Trezeguet or AEG have a brilliant year then what’s to stop Man City it anyone else coming in for them?

No, you're right, but to give the example of Jack, we managed to stop him leaving last summer.

In the case of Luiz we would be contractually obliged to sell him, and at a price we'd agreed in advance with another club.

I am not massively shitting myself over this, I'd still buy the player, but to suggest it doesn't matter when it has a legally defined impact on our future is wide of the mark.

Let's agree to revisit this in 12 months time, and see if they've called him back, and see what peoples' reactions are.

 


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