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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 108501 times)

Offline AllanW

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1335 on: September 21, 2020, 09:30:55 AM »

Yeah, it's a lot better.

Caveat: it works well at the moment as the stadia are empty. Be interesting to see how it works when that is no longer the case.

Good point. The well established statistic that away results are far higher in empty stadia (observed and documented in all countries returning to live games so far) is a strong one. But it only returns fairness to the game, no more. The equally well established refereeing bias for home teams with crowds has not been reversed just compensated. Just one meta-analysis of home-team bias is here;

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273835772_Referee_Bias

From the Conclusions;

"For football, a number of studies have shown that referees favor the home team. Favoritism of football referees can be shown using different measures, such as stoppage time in close games, awarding goals, penalty kicks, and awarding cards to players. Though there are differences in magnitude, the
results are consistent across different time periods as well as across countries."

"Determinants of referee bias can be summarized in two groups: social payoffs and material payoffs. Referees’ social payoffs are affected by size and composition of the supporting crowd, distance of the crowd from the referee, as well as the returns from a win."

"Research has also shown, however, that principals can at least partly offset social forces by setting incentives, such as increasing wages for referees, or monitoring of referee’s decisions."

I'm happy that we may be seeing some improvement in refereeing performance towards a more fair game but won't get carried away yet; they have an awful long way to go before they even approach a neutral and competent state. Uniformally awful is still the default but I hope they carry on getting a bit better.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1336 on: September 21, 2020, 10:48:30 AM »
I  tend to turn off a game i'm watching if one team has been VAR'd. You know who is going to win. Doesn't matter if the decision is right - the sheer act of overturning a decision by some omnipotent god figure that the players can't see or talk to, seems to have a much harsher psychological effect on the players than if the ref penalises them himself. The Chelsea Liverpool and Man U vs Palace games were both perfect examples. Both games you could see the effect on the players, and both games were over as a contest soon after.

Offline Drummond

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1337 on: September 21, 2020, 10:57:33 AM »
I enjoyed VAR giving that Pen against ManUre and then the re-take. Glorious.

I think VAR seems better this season so far....let's see what happens tonight, I'm hoping there's nothing and that we just soundly beat them.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1338 on: September 21, 2020, 11:00:45 AM »
I enjoyed VAR giving that Pen against ManUre and then the re-take. Glorious.

I think VAR seems better this season so far....let's see what happens tonight, I'm hoping there's nothing and that we just soundly beat them.

The whole world, well at least that part of it inhabited by bitter twats, is waiting for us to be on the wrong end of a bad decision tonight.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1339 on: September 21, 2020, 11:12:02 AM »
well yeah, every neutral likes to see Man U getting the shitty end of the VAR stick, but if you're just watching a game for enjoyment's sake, you know its over once VAR sticks its oar in. I knew Man U were gonna lose after that happened. Likewise  I switched off the Chelsea vs Liverpool game at half time because you could tell by the body language of the Chelsea players if was all over. They can't even get motivated by a sense of perceived injustice because there's no-one to get mad at. The other thing now is its breeding coward officials - i'm pretty sure the chelsea ref knew that was a red card but didn't fancy taking responsibility himself so he gave a yellow and let VAR sort it. Which begs the question why do we need them?

Offline Drummond

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1340 on: September 21, 2020, 11:24:39 AM »
well yeah, every neutral likes to see Man U getting the shitty end of the VAR stick, but if you're just watching a game for enjoyment's sake, you know its over once VAR sticks its oar in. I knew Man U were gonna lose after that happened. Likewise  I switched off the Chelsea vs Liverpool game at half time because you could tell by the body language of the Chelsea players if was all over. They can't even get motivated by a sense of perceived injustice because there's no-one to get mad at. The other thing now is its breeding coward officials - i'm pretty sure the chelsea ref knew that was a red card but didn't fancy taking responsibility himself so he gave a yellow and let VAR sort it. Which begs the question why do we need them?

Ok, you've repeated the point a coupe of times, so I'll bite. No, you don't know the game is up after a VAR decision.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1341 on: September 21, 2020, 11:30:14 AM »
hah, well maybe i'm just a good guesser then. I wonder how many teams have come back and won from an overturned VAR decision that penalised them as opposed to a decision give by a referee that penalised them?

Offline Meanwood Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1342 on: September 21, 2020, 11:31:08 AM »
Is it not the case that Man U lost because the decision meant they were 2 down with less than 20 minutes to go and Chelsea lost because they were a man down against a team they were struggling to contain with 11 players rather than any psychological impact of the decision being made off the pitch?

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1343 on: September 21, 2020, 11:38:33 AM »
My view is there is an added psychological effect on the players having a decision overturned by VAR. So getting a player sent off by the ref will have less effect on a team than a player than getting a yellow and then VAR changing it to red. Likewise, a goal being allowed/dis-allowed and then VAR changing the decision. Think I will closely follow our interactions with VAR this season, and see if the theory has any legs..

Offline Drummond

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1344 on: September 21, 2020, 11:54:39 AM »
My view is there is an added psychological effect on the players having a decision overturned by VAR. So getting a player sent off by the ref will have less effect on a team than a player than getting a yellow and then VAR changing it to red. Likewise, a goal being allowed/dis-allowed and then VAR changing the decision. Think I will closely follow our interactions with VAR this season, and see if the theory has any legs..

Hmmm, could be tricky if you're not going to watch when VAR get involved.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1345 on: September 21, 2020, 12:00:02 PM »
My view is there is an added psychological effect on the players having a decision overturned by VAR. So getting a player sent off by the ref will have less effect on a team than a player than getting a yellow and then VAR changing it to red. Likewise, a goal being allowed/dis-allowed and then VAR changing the decision. Think I will closely follow our interactions with VAR this season, and see if the theory has any legs..

Hmmm, could be tricky if you're not going to watch when VAR get involved.

only do that with neutral games. Villa games i make myself suffer.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 12:01:51 PM by sickbeggar »

Offline chrisw1

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1346 on: September 21, 2020, 01:03:22 PM »
My view is there is an added psychological effect on the players having a decision overturned by VAR. So getting a player sent off by the ref will have less effect on a team than a player than getting a yellow and then VAR changing it to red. Likewise, a goal being allowed/dis-allowed and then VAR changing the decision. Think I will closely follow our interactions with VAR this season, and see if the theory has any legs..
I think you're wrong.  Also, lots of VAR decisions will be made by the ref at the monitor now, so any previously perceived impact will be lesst.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1347 on: September 21, 2020, 01:05:18 PM »
My view is there is an added psychological effect on the players having a decision overturned by VAR. So getting a player sent off by the ref will have less effect on a team than a player than getting a yellow and then VAR changing it to red. Likewise, a goal being allowed/dis-allowed and then VAR changing the decision. Think I will closely follow our interactions with VAR this season, and see if the theory has any legs..
I think you're wrong.  Also, lots of VAR decisions will be made by the ref at the monitor now, so any previously perceived impact will be lesst.

Depends if the ref makes a decision and then its overruled like the Chelsea game. That's what i'm gonna keep an eye on - decisions we benefit/suffer from that weren't originally given by the ref.  I think its human nature that it effects you more if you have something taken away that you thought you'd kept ,rather than just taken away by the original decision. It works well in cricket because the umpires hasn't made a decision first
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 01:11:12 PM by sickbeggar »

Offline LeeB

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1348 on: September 21, 2020, 01:06:47 PM »
hah, well maybe i'm just a good guesser then. I wonder how many teams have come back and won from an overturned VAR decision that penalised them as opposed to a decision give by a referee that penalised them?
Us against Brighton last year

Offline LeeB

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1349 on: September 21, 2020, 01:08:08 PM »
hah, well maybe i'm just a good guesser then. I wonder how many teams have come back and won from an overturned VAR decision that penalised them as opposed to a decision give by a referee that penalised them?
Us against Brighton last year

Liverpool against us as well

 


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