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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 137690 times)

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1185 on: February 17, 2020, 12:03:23 AM »
It really is a Pandora’s box. Once you start reviewing stuff it then becomes an arbitrary exercise in terms of what is and isn’t reviewed and how far back do you go before you find an infringement.
The way it has been introduced is so fucking amateurish.
They have undermined their own rule of clear and obvious error, no one understand how hand ball is being applied and the offside decisions are a joke and the science is flawed.

Offline OzVilla

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1186 on: February 17, 2020, 01:51:33 AM »
Its quite incredible how a system that should be reasonably fool proof has become an absolute fucking circus. The referees association should be absolutely ashamed that this has been the outcome of implementing VAR this season.

Are other countries using VAR having these issues too?

Offline Smithy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1187 on: February 17, 2020, 10:21:10 AM »
Watching on the TV, it was obvious they were going to give a pen yesterday when you could see VAR going back to look at the through ball to see if he was offside - they're not doing that if they didn't think the tackle merited a pen.  Although they took a while to award it, I think they made the penalty decision (i.e. the foul bit) pretty quickly. That said, I don't agree that it meets with the "clear and obvious" criteria that Dean mentioned.

If VAR is there to overrule in cases of "clear and obvious" mistakes, then it is - by definition - required to let go mistakes that are NOT "clear and obvious".

I have no qualms about the tackle meriting a penalty. He took the man before the ball in the penalty area. What I don't like is that VAR on decisions like this is NOT supposed to be a binary yes/no like in offside.

I would be annoyed if it was us NOT getting a penalty in such cases, but that's the way the system is supposed to work.  By all means, get rid of the "clear and obvious" part of the rules and make it more like offside - at least then it's a level playing field.

Look back at the incident where Anwar got clouted after his header on the six-yard line, seconds before the defending is grabbing at his arm - is that not a penalty if we're going down the black/white route - or is it just something that got missed and we move on?  What about Engels getting punched in the face a couple of weeks ago?

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1188 on: February 17, 2020, 10:23:43 AM »
The other thing with the shit VAR decision, was the amount of time that play went on for before the referee stopped the game.  What if we'd scored then, and then VAR announce they're checking the Spurs decision.  Is that our goal ruled out?  It's an absolute farce, they really couldn't make more of a pig's ear of it if they tried.

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1189 on: February 17, 2020, 12:26:10 PM »
I thought what would happen is the ref would controll the use of VAR and refer if he decided.
The argument is then, why did he not refer but it works pretty well in Rugby Union
I also have No problem with VAR saying to the ref I saw this happened, knowing the ref did not see it.
Like yesterday when a Grealish was fouled and the ref did give the free kick, Again  clear and obvious error.

Offline itmustbe_it is!

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1190 on: February 17, 2020, 01:14:08 PM »
I've just seen the goal Wolves had disallowed last night by VAR.

Aside of the utter idiocy of another goal being called offside by a fraction on a player moving away from goal, I don't think I even understand the offside rule anymore.  From the corner, three of the four passes are backwards - I thought you could only be offside from a forward pass?  But the only forward pass involved in the goal wasn't the reason it was disallowed.

Any ideas?

Nope, everyone assumes it is forward passes only because there is very little times that a backwards one will be offside.I might be wrong but the attacking receiving player needs to be level or behind the attacking passer still at point of pass otherwise some of these two on ones would be called back.

I've said before, I don't mind the offsides called by VAR as that is now one of the absolutes in the game rules as is. There are still too many others which is interpretation of the viewer. Blame the rules for stating offside is now decided by mm and not the technology though. However, my issue is how far back are they taking these. There has been some goals allowed as fouls in the buildup have been ignored as too soon before the play. However our one a few weeks ago, and Wolves last night was several passes before the goal, and the decision against Shrewsbury in the FA cup replay was so long before the attack scored that even the highlights team didn't go back far enough at the time.


From the FA website

"A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent"

It's pretty difficult too be nearer the goal line than the ball from a corner !

Edit - just reviewed the actual incident , I didnt get that it was the original corner taker that was given offside. Still a barmy decision though !
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 01:27:50 PM by itmustbe_it is! »

Offline Neil Hawkes

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1191 on: February 17, 2020, 02:40:07 PM »
Look back at the incident where Anwar got clouted after his header on the six-yard line, seconds before the defending is grabbing at his arm - is that not a penalty if we're going down the black/white route - or is it just something that got missed and we move on?  What about Engels getting punched in the face a couple of weeks ago?
I agree, if Engels foul was a penalty then both above incidents are also penalties.

Online Mister E

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1192 on: February 17, 2020, 03:23:23 PM »

Look back at the incident where Anwar got clouted after his header on the six-yard line, seconds before the defending is grabbing at his arm - is that not a penalty ...

What about Engels getting punched in the face a couple of weeks ago?
This is the point, isn't it? - once the VAR ref starts looking at some stuff he has to look at ALL of the stuff.
Whicih woiuld be impractical; the game would go on for 3 hours!

Offline baddowvillans

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1193 on: February 17, 2020, 04:26:24 PM »
Would have been interesting yesterday if Tottenham had scored from the corner that Spurs were awarded that should have been a goal kick.  Would VAR have looked at that or would that have been deemed a different phase of play - even though that phase of play and onerous decision directly provided the goal scoring opportunity. I think we all know what the answer would have been!

Offline Astonite

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1194 on: February 17, 2020, 05:35:24 PM »
The thing about VAR and off side for me is they measure the players position to the millimetre but give no indication or evidence as to when the ball is kicked. I don't even know how the calculate the micro second it is kicked. Is it when there is a visible gap between the foot or ball or when the ball is deformed in shape when touching the boot etc. Can they even see when it is kicked accurately enough to measure player movement as they are.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1195 on: February 17, 2020, 05:37:33 PM »
It really is a Pandora’s box. Once you start reviewing stuff it then becomes an arbitrary exercise in terms of what is and isn’t reviewed and how far back do you go before you find an infringement.
The way it has been introduced is so fucking amateurish.
They have undermined their own rule of clear and obvious error, no one understand how hand ball is being applied and the offside decisions are a joke and the science is flawed.

Absolutely.  It's not the technology it's the dickhead way they use it. The "clear and obvious" mantra has been totally ignored and I'm not sure whether it even still applies, or is meant to.  They are micro-managing games to the extent where decisions that no-one on the pitch is challenging are being overturned.  My gripe with the penalty yesterday is not that it wasn't a penalty, because it was (It was obvious on seeing the replay for the first time and not sure why Moss took two or three minutes to decide).
 It's that when it wasn't given, no-one really challenged it or appealed, so it shouldn't have been considered a clear and obvious error, and it shouldn't have been reviewed.

They either make the referee sole arbiter again, so he decides when VAR is to be used and goes to the monitor, or else they allow each team 2 appeals, and that's it.  Checking every incident is fucking ludicrous, especially when they are still making mistakes and have no consistency in what they decide.

Offline JUAN PABLO

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1196 on: February 17, 2020, 06:25:28 PM »
The thing about VAR and off side for me is they measure the players position to the millimetre but give no indication or evidence as to when the ball is kicked.

Been saying this from the start ..   

Offline West Derby Villan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1197 on: February 17, 2020, 06:28:14 PM »
The thing about VAR and off side for me is they measure the players position to the millimetre but give no indication or evidence as to when the ball is kicked.

Been saying this from the start ..

Yep, a very relevant point that seems to be ignored

Offline Nastylee

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1198 on: February 17, 2020, 06:33:44 PM »
Why was our shout for handball not looked at when Spurs had two reviews in the space of minutes?

Offline walsall villain

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1199 on: February 17, 2020, 06:38:46 PM »
Yesterday that first VAR check for handball seemed to be about two minutes after the incident and play had carried on. What if players are booked or sent off in that 2 minutes then VAR decides it’s a pen. Would cautions etc be cancelled? I’m confused.
The response from the Holte end to that first VAR was spot on, it’s ruining football as it is currently being done.

 


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