I don't. I want to see cheats like Bamford punished, and I want to make it more difficult for referees to give ludicrous penalties to the home side at Old Trafford. VAR should help. It needs to improve, but judging by how it is working now compared to just a few months ago at the Women's World Cup, it already is improving rapidly.
I just don't get why people aren't prepared to work through the various teething problems to get a system that works and hopefuly improves the fairness of the game in the long run.
Quote from: Nev on August 26, 2019, 09:26:28 AMThe myth that using VAR will get decisions correct till exists. Fouls are always going to be subjective, all VAR does is ask for a second opinion.For years people cited Tennis, Rugby and Cricket as examples but in almost all cases in those sports it's a decision based on fact, not opinion. The handball/offside VAR decisions may be factual but they have not made the rules clear enough for the video ref to come to a definitive decision so we have a shitty mess full of conjecture and argument. If people are hell bent on demanding the correct outcome every time just feed the data of each team into a computer and see what the result is, all human error, player or official is removed.If you look at the cricket, much has been made of Joel Wilson's error in not calling the LBW yesterday, but Nathan Lyon made an equally crucial mistake. Why does a player get a pass but the umpire doesn't? Those errors just added to the drama. As did Paine's decision to refer just a few moments earlier.I still see a second yellow card as a potential game changing decision yet there is no referral so what's the fuckin point.? Give it back to the ref and let's get on with it for fucks sake.Or just let it bed in and get it right.As for rugby, a lot of the decisions are far from factual - it deals with foul play anywhere on the field and any potential offences leading up to a try.We've been moaning for years about duff decisions, diving, off side goals, people not being sent off in cup finals, Patrick Bamford being a c*** etc etc. I just don't get why people aren't prepared to work through the various teething problems to get a system that works and hopefuly improves the fairness of the game in the long run.
The myth that using VAR will get decisions correct till exists. Fouls are always going to be subjective, all VAR does is ask for a second opinion.For years people cited Tennis, Rugby and Cricket as examples but in almost all cases in those sports it's a decision based on fact, not opinion. The handball/offside VAR decisions may be factual but they have not made the rules clear enough for the video ref to come to a definitive decision so we have a shitty mess full of conjecture and argument. If people are hell bent on demanding the correct outcome every time just feed the data of each team into a computer and see what the result is, all human error, player or official is removed.If you look at the cricket, much has been made of Joel Wilson's error in not calling the LBW yesterday, but Nathan Lyon made an equally crucial mistake. Why does a player get a pass but the umpire doesn't? Those errors just added to the drama. As did Paine's decision to refer just a few moments earlier.I still see a second yellow card as a potential game changing decision yet there is no referral so what's the fuckin point.? Give it back to the ref and let's get on with it for fucks sake.
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 27, 2019, 12:11:03 PM I just don't get why people aren't prepared to work through the various teething problems to get a system that works and hopefuly improves the fairness of the game in the long run.Because if the "teething problems" are penalties not given when they should be, goals not given when they could be and referees getting just as many things wrong as before then it doesn't look like it's improving the fairness. I don't understand why people who want to improve the fairness of the game aren't prepared to work through the teething problems in workgroups between the referees and the authorities until they have a system which delivers fairness compared to now and THEN bring it into the game, not before. The PL is too important to be a test-site; prove it works through rigorous testing and we'll back it. This isn't how important things like airplane wings are tested so why do it to football?
Quote from: AllanW on August 27, 2019, 01:33:16 PMQuote from: chrisw1 on August 27, 2019, 12:11:03 PM I just don't get why people aren't prepared to work through the various teething problems to get a system that works and hopefuly improves the fairness of the game in the long run.Because if the "teething problems" are penalties not given when they should be, goals not given when they could be and referees getting just as many things wrong as before then it doesn't look like it's improving the fairness. I don't understand why people who want to improve the fairness of the game aren't prepared to work through the teething problems in workgroups between the referees and the authorities until they have a system which delivers fairness compared to now and THEN bring it into the game, not before. The PL is too important to be a test-site; prove it works through rigorous testing and we'll back it. This isn't how important things like airplane wings are tested so why do it to football?It was always going to take time to settle down. It will and when it does it will improve the game.
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 27, 2019, 12:11:03 PMQuote from: Nev on August 26, 2019, 09:26:28 AMThe myth that using VAR will get decisions correct till exists. Fouls are always going to be subjective, all VAR does is ask for a second opinion.For years people cited Tennis, Rugby and Cricket as examples but in almost all cases in those sports it's a decision based on fact, not opinion. The handball/offside VAR decisions may be factual but they have not made the rules clear enough for the video ref to come to a definitive decision so we have a shitty mess full of conjecture and argument. If people are hell bent on demanding the correct outcome every time just feed the data of each team into a computer and see what the result is, all human error, player or official is removed.If you look at the cricket, much has been made of Joel Wilson's error in not calling the LBW yesterday, but Nathan Lyon made an equally crucial mistake. Why does a player get a pass but the umpire doesn't? Those errors just added to the drama. As did Paine's decision to refer just a few moments earlier.I still see a second yellow card as a potential game changing decision yet there is no referral so what's the fuckin point.? Give it back to the ref and let's get on with it for fucks sake.Or just let it bed in and get it right.As for rugby, a lot of the decisions are far from factual - it deals with foul play anywhere on the field and any potential offences leading up to a try.We've been moaning for years about duff decisions, diving, off side goals, people not being sent off in cup finals, Patrick Bamford being a c*** etc etc. I just don't get why people aren't prepared to work through the various teething problems to get a system that works and hopefuly improves the fairness of the game in the long run.Because the sense of injustice fuels our support, being on the right end of an incorrect decision makes us feel like naughty school kids as we giggle at our opponents, the unpredictability appals us and thrills us in equal measure, we build certain officials into bogeymen and villains, we love the drama, we love the arguments and conjecture, what might have been, what should've been and those garrulous tales of huge decisions that denied our team the world dominance they so richly deserved if it wasn't for a fat bloke from Staffordshire or a school master from Harrow.Sport is a glorious thing, Sunday afternoon was a perfect example, yes technology was used but it was human bravery and skill, fallibility and misjudgement that gave it the drama.I have enjoyed football for almost 50 years and the addition of VAR has not enhanced that at all. I want justice and order in life, I want chaos and disorder in Sport, it's what makes it for me.
Quote from: Nev on August 27, 2019, 01:36:57 PMQuote from: chrisw1 on August 27, 2019, 12:11:03 PMQuote from: Nev on August 26, 2019, 09:26:28 AMThe myth that using VAR will get decisions correct till exists. Fouls are always going to be subjective, all VAR does is ask for a second opinion.For years people cited Tennis, Rugby and Cricket as examples but in almost all cases in those sports it's a decision based on fact, not opinion. The handball/offside VAR decisions may be factual but they have not made the rules clear enough for the video ref to come to a definitive decision so we have a shitty mess full of conjecture and argument. If people are hell bent on demanding the correct outcome every time just feed the data of each team into a computer and see what the result is, all human error, player or official is removed.If you look at the cricket, much has been made of Joel Wilson's error in not calling the LBW yesterday, but Nathan Lyon made an equally crucial mistake. Why does a player get a pass but the umpire doesn't? Those errors just added to the drama. As did Paine's decision to refer just a few moments earlier.I still see a second yellow card as a potential game changing decision yet there is no referral so what's the fuckin point.? Give it back to the ref and let's get on with it for fucks sake.Or just let it bed in and get it right.As for rugby, a lot of the decisions are far from factual - it deals with foul play anywhere on the field and any potential offences leading up to a try.We've been moaning for years about duff decisions, diving, off side goals, people not being sent off in cup finals, Patrick Bamford being a c*** etc etc. I just don't get why people aren't prepared to work through the various teething problems to get a system that works and hopefuly improves the fairness of the game in the long run.Because the sense of injustice fuels our support, being on the right end of an incorrect decision makes us feel like naughty school kids as we giggle at our opponents, the unpredictability appals us and thrills us in equal measure, we build certain officials into bogeymen and villains, we love the drama, we love the arguments and conjecture, what might have been, what should've been and those garrulous tales of huge decisions that denied our team the world dominance they so richly deserved if it wasn't for a fat bloke from Staffordshire or a school master from Harrow.Sport is a glorious thing, Sunday afternoon was a perfect example, yes technology was used but it was human bravery and skill, fallibility and misjudgement that gave it the drama.I have enjoyed football for almost 50 years and the addition of VAR has not enhanced that at all. I want justice and order in life, I want chaos and disorder in Sport, it's what makes it for me.Fair enough. Personally I'd have preferred Maradonna's goal to have been disallowed, Vidic to have been sent off for his assault at Wembley, Rodriguez handball goal to be disallowed and El Ghazi not sent off for the ghost punch on Bamford. The romance of human fallibility and misjudgement does nothing for me when it results in travesties like those.
You're the first sports fan I've encountered that would enjoy being cheated out of a win.Personally, our '66 WC win and the latest cricket WC win will always be tainted somewhat (as well as Sunday's Ashes win). I don't enjoy losing unfairly, and I'm honest enough to admit I don't get the full satisfaction from winning unfairly.
No thanks.I'd rather technology gave us an important win than a 'well-meaning', but error-ridden, official take it from us.And it it falls the other way, then so be it. I can handle fairness, even if it goes against me.As I said earlier, despite technology correcting errors on offsides/onsides, goals/no goals, Henry/Maradona handballs, etc., there will still be plenty left for people to moan about/claim injustice on. "Was that really their free-kick /throw in 5 minutes before we scored that own goal!?" and the like.To want to get rid of technology just because some people can't agree on a foul is ludicrous. Linking the argument to clubs going out of business even more so.