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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 83834 times)

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #135 on: July 06, 2019, 12:22:19 AM »
Are people now saying that something which was called for to help  eradicate diving will, in fact, encourage and legitimise it?
Yep, any contact will be a penalty.

Online AsTallAsLions

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Re: VAR
« Reply #136 on: July 06, 2019, 12:36:44 AM »
Are people now saying that something which was called for to help  eradicate diving will, in fact, encourage and legitimise it?
Yep, any contact will be a penalty.

Not really. A foul will still be a foul. A dive will still be a dive. If anything, VAR will allow officials to tell the difference between well-trained/practiced simulation and genuine contact leading to a foul.

Implying that the denial of a goalscoring opportunity in the box could ever NOT be a penalty is just contrary to the rules of the game, full stop. That's not new.

Offline LowerNorthStand

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Re: VAR
« Reply #137 on: July 06, 2019, 08:05:20 AM »
Are people now saying that something which was called for to help  eradicate diving will, in fact, encourage and legitimise it?
Yep, any contact will be a penalty.

People will be crying every 5 minutes for VAR and as we saw at the Womenís World Cup with Englandís penalty which should never have been given.

Online Mister E

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Re: VAR
« Reply #138 on: July 06, 2019, 08:34:23 AM »
Although I have been a proponent of refs being supported better with technology, I have concerns with the current VAR Approach:
(i) it has turned offside into a science of the minutiae. Refs have long been advised to give strikers the benefit of the doubt on offsides - this has effectively now been reversed and will create massive frustration in football grounds.
(ii) 'minor offences' in the box punished by refs may lead to them seeking to 'balance things up' during the course of a game; not a great basis for refereeing, in my opinion.
(iii) will VAR discourage diving or simulation (a scourge on the game)? - probably not unless it's in the penalty area.
(iv) the use of a pitchside screen for refs extends the time-out required for decisions to be made: I think on-pitch refs should be guided by the VAR without the need to be assured, themselves, by having seen it.
(v) the role of linesman / asst ref has almost become redundant: they now no longer appear to have any other role than ins and outs and the occasional offside. I believe that if you have linesmen they should be more active in guiding refereeing decisions.

I hope that the use of VAR is further developed to become a little more subtle, and that it does not make the role of ref any more 'melodramatic' (some refs do not need much encouragement to become centre of attention - e.g. Phil Fucking Dowd).

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #139 on: July 06, 2019, 09:08:19 AM »
A lot of valid points well made there Mr E but, I have to take issue with point (ii).  Referee's 'balancing things up' is a total myth.  Having been there, done that so to speak never once did it occur to me to do that, why would I? I've given a decision be it right or wrong and then never dwelt in it.

I was in the game a long time, and over that time spoke to many referee's and this topic came up from time to time and to a man/woman not one agreed that it was a regular occurrence in the game.  It is understandable that it could look like that but as I say, in my opinion and that of many others, it's a myth.

A referee that does that would soon be found out and deemed incompetent and God knows we've enough to be deemed incompetent for without being afraid of what players and club officials may think of us. 

Many years ago when I first attended the Referee's Coaching Course, it was emphasised very strongly that having made a decision you don't change it unless informed otherwise by an officially appointed linesman (who would be a qualified referee) and even then you would have the power to ignore that information should you choose to do so.

I still can't decide whether I like VAR or not.  One thing for sure, no matter what I, or any of us think, it's here to stay.

Offline West Derby Villan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #140 on: July 06, 2019, 11:20:35 AM »
A lot of valid points well made there Mr E but, I have to take issue with point (ii).  Referee's 'balancing things up' is a total myth.  Having been there, done that so to speak never once did it occur to me to do that, why would I? I've given a decision be it right or wrong and then never dwelt in it.

I was in the game a long time, and over that time spoke to many referee's and this topic came up from time to time and to a man/woman not one agreed that it was a regular occurrence in the game.  It is understandable that it could look like that but as I say, in my opinion and that of many others, it's a myth.

A referee that does that would soon be found out and deemed incompetent and God knows we've enough to be deemed incompetent for without being afraid of what players and club officials may think of us. 

Many years ago when I first attended the Referee's Coaching Course, it was emphasised very strongly that having made a decision you don't change it unless informed otherwise by an officially appointed linesman (who would be a qualified referee) and even then you would have the power to ignore that information should you choose to do so.

I still can't decide whether I like VAR or not.  One thing for sure, no matter what I, or any of us think, it's here to stay.

Agree great post Mr E. Dave thanks for the insight and totally agree with your last paragraph. Hopefully VAR usage improves sooner rather than later

Online Mister E

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Re: VAR
« Reply #141 on: July 06, 2019, 12:14:55 PM »
A lot of valid points well made there Mr E but, I have to take issue with point (ii).  Referee's 'balancing things up' is a total myth.  Having been there, done that so to speak never once did it occur to me to do that, why would I? I've given a decision be it right or wrong and then never dwelt in it.

I was in the game a long time, and over that time spoke to many referee's and this topic came up from time to time and to a man/woman not one agreed that it was a regular occurrence in the game.  It is understandable that it could look like that but as I say, in my opinion and that of many others, it's a myth.

A referee that does that would soon be found out and deemed incompetent and God knows we've enough to be deemed incompetent for without being afraid of what players and club officials may think of us. 

Many years ago when I first attended the Referee's Coaching Course, it was emphasised very strongly that having made a decision you don't change it unless informed otherwise by an officially appointed linesman (who would be a qualified referee) and even then you would have the power to ignore that information should you choose to do so.

I still can't decide whether I like VAR or not.  One thing for sure, no matter what I, or any of us think, it's here to stay.

As a fellow ref (but probably not to such a level as you got to, I suspect, from your many postings) I'd agree that refs do not try to 'balance things up' as a rule. Maybe I overstated that point, although I think that refs do come under considerable psychological pressure to be seen to be fair to each team and this may sometimes translate into balancing up.

Although I have some misgivings about VAR's use in the women's World Cup, we certainly live in interesting times and I'm looking forward to the debate.

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #142 on: July 06, 2019, 12:47:22 PM »
We'll have to get together sometime Mr E and put the footballing world to rights.

Offline frank black

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Re: VAR
« Reply #143 on: July 06, 2019, 01:45:53 PM »
Refs donít know they when they even things up. Itís unconscious bias
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 05:21:47 PM by frank black »

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: VAR
« Reply #144 on: July 06, 2019, 01:54:30 PM »
Are people now saying that something which was called for to help  eradicate diving will, in fact, encourage and legitimise it?
Yep, any contact will be a penalty.

Not really. A foul will still be a foul. A dive will still be a dive.

The fundamental things apply
As time goes by

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #145 on: July 06, 2019, 02:41:25 PM »
Refs donít know they when they even things up. Itís subconscious bias


Bollocks.

Online themossman

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Re: VAR
« Reply #146 on: July 06, 2019, 04:36:16 PM »
Another good game getting ruined by VAR. Yay.

Online themossman

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Re: VAR
« Reply #147 on: July 06, 2019, 04:39:40 PM »
Itís getting to the point where I donít even enjoy a goal the same way because there seems to be a 50/50 chance of it getting annulled after a tedious VAR delay.

That handball was bullshit. In super slow mo everything looks deliberate but if youíre jostling with a defender with your arms at your side and the ball richochets off the top half of your arm itís debatable at best.

Offline KRS

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Re: VAR
« Reply #148 on: July 06, 2019, 04:47:20 PM »
Another England goal disallowed by an alleged handball by White as she controlled the ball and was being challenged by a Swedish defender. The camera angles available were unable to show if it was clearly or definitely handball, however the ref decided to disallow it even though the footage does not prove beyond doubt that it was handball.

The poor camera angles and zoom available is another flaw in the VAR system, and I don't believe they can be entirely accurate particularly "from when the ball was played" for offsides for this very reason (a single frame backwards or forwards for the ball leaving the foot can make the difference between onside or offside). For offsides too, there also seems to be inconsistency over which part of the body makes a player offside...the other day it was Whites elbow that was offside against the USA players foot.

Offline KRS

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Re: VAR
« Reply #149 on: July 06, 2019, 04:51:16 PM »
That handball was bullshit. In super slow mo everything looks deliberate but if youíre jostling with a defender with your arms at your side and the ball richochets off the top half of your arm itís debatable at best.
The new handball rules are to blame for that not VAR, however you can blame VAR for the footage being inconclusive whether it touched her hand or not and the benefit of the doubt went against the attacking team as per offside decisions.

 


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