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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 172857 times)

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1560 on: November 21, 2020, 11:25:00 PM »
I'm not going to quote that word salad Ian, but this isn't about a difference of opinion. This is a professional referee who clearly changed his mind on a penalty because the defender got the ball.

That's not a matter of opinion, it's fact, and I'm pretty sure the ref hasn't got the rule wrong or he won't be reffing again this season.

and another professional referee on BT sports said it was pen. Last season a professional ref on the pitch gave fernandes a penalty and another upheld it. Refs get things wrong and a number of laws are subjective enough to allow for that. That said there is nothing in the laws that says kickng someone in the shin is ok if the ball brushes your heel on the way through.

Yep.  To say "he's a professional ref so he's right and you're wrong' is facile beyond belief.  You're exactly right to bring up the Fernandes example last season.  The ref gave it, VAR didn't overrule it, but after the game when it had been reviewed, PGMOL gave a statement that evening saying the ref had made a mistake.  I said it wasn't a penalty, my Villa supporting mate I was watching with said it wasn't a penalty, my two Man U supporting mates watching it said it wasn't a penalty, and from memory the commentator said it wasn't a penalty. 

The professional ref during the game thought it was of course, which is ultimately all that really matters, but it goes to prove, not that any proof is needed, that they're a long way from being infallible.

Good job I didn't say that then.

The fact a professional referee so blatantly said he changed his mind because the defender got the ball proves that getting the ball is a relevant factor.

Now you can argue about whether the penalty decision was right, sure, but saying that the fact he got the ball is irrelevant is demonstrably bollocks.  That's the whole reason we didn't get a penalty.

And I stand by the fact that if that had been us defending, everyone on here would've been saying it was the ultimately the right decision.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1561 on: November 21, 2020, 11:25:56 PM »
You can stand by what you like, a load of bollocks is a load of bollocks.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1562 on: November 21, 2020, 11:31:54 PM »
If it was reversed I'd think we'd been given a gift, just like we were against Sheff U last season.

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1563 on: November 21, 2020, 11:32:30 PM »
You can stand by what you like, a load of bollocks is a load of bollocks.

Well there's something we can agree on.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1564 on: November 21, 2020, 11:38:57 PM »
It looks like you're pretty much out on a limb on this one.  I'll leave everybody else to decide who's talking bollocks.

Offline LukeJames

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1565 on: November 21, 2020, 11:48:57 PM »
Graham Scott in the Spurs v Brighton let a decision go in the match which was the most blatant foul you could possibly see, he went to the VAR screen and stood by his decision that the Brighton defender didnt foul the Spurs player because his toe nail brushed the ball before he went through the Spurs player, it caused national condemnation of the Graham Scott and a former head of referees to come out on TV and say he cringed when Graham Scott used the touching of the ball as a validation as to why he allowed the goal to stand.

The touching of the ball does not detract from a player then going through another player.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1566 on: November 21, 2020, 11:56:40 PM »
There's also nothing in the official rules about touching the ball then subsequently fouling the player, meaning that it's not a foul.  Anywhere else on the pitch and that's get's blown up as a foul 99.99% of the time.

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1567 on: November 22, 2020, 12:12:10 AM »
There's also nothing in the official rules about touching the ball then subsequently fouling the player, meaning that it's not a foul.  Anywhere else on the pitch and that's get's blown up as a foul 99.99% of the time.

I look forward to the PGMOL publicly stating Michael Oliver doesn't know the rules of football then.

Online Ian.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1568 on: November 22, 2020, 12:12:30 AM »
He took the player out regardless of the minimal contact with the ball, the penalty should have stood and I wouldn’t have had any arguments if it was against us. March knew it too, his reaction said it all.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1569 on: November 22, 2020, 12:14:16 AM »
There's also nothing in the official rules about touching the ball then subsequently fouling the player, meaning that it's not a foul.  Anywhere else on the pitch and that's get's blown up as a foul 99.99% of the time.

As i said earlier, I reckon I could go through the footage from all over Europe and find hundreds of tackles like that given as free kicks, you see it all the time.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1570 on: November 22, 2020, 12:17:23 AM »
I'd have challenged anyone at the time to watch any camera angle they wanted of that at normal speed and tell me he's played the ball. Even at slo-mo it was only evident that it had brushed past him when they zoomed in.

As was commented earlier, on another day and in another game that doesn't get given, var looks at it, and then it is.

And fwiw, had that been us defending today, my reaction would've been that we'd fkn got away with one there.

I'm also thinking that a bit like how they're now interpreting handballs to avoid inconsistencies, they're doing similar with fouls when it comes to penalties, and counting any contact with the ball as playing it. So scrape your studs over the top of the ball before going through the shins, fine. Miss the ball and plant your foot adjacent to the attacker's, penalty.

Offline LukeJames

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1571 on: November 22, 2020, 12:18:27 AM »
There's also nothing in the official rules about touching the ball then subsequently fouling the player, meaning that it's not a foul.  Anywhere else on the pitch and that's get's blown up as a foul 99.99% of the time.

I look forward to the PGMOL publicly stating Michael Oliver doesn't know the rules of football then.

So the decision at Palace last season was correct because PGMOL didn't release a statement criticising Kevin Friend?

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1572 on: November 22, 2020, 12:20:59 AM »
There's also nothing in the official rules about touching the ball then subsequently fouling the player, meaning that it's not a foul.  Anywhere else on the pitch and that's get's blown up as a foul 99.99% of the time.

I look forward to the PGMOL publicly stating Michael Oliver doesn't know the rules of football then.

So the decision at Palace last season was correct because PGMOL didn't release a statement criticising Kevin Friend?

What's Palace got to do with anything?

People keep saying the fact he played the ball is irrelevant.  The ref specifically said that was why he changed his mind.  If the ref's got that wrong it's a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of the rules which the PGMOL will no doubt be along to tell us about any time soon.

Offline LukeJames

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1573 on: November 22, 2020, 12:24:24 AM »
The decision at Palace was wrong , the decision today was wrong. PMGOL are not going to release any statement.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1574 on: November 22, 2020, 12:32:17 AM »
There's also nothing in the official rules about touching the ball then subsequently fouling the player, meaning that it's not a foul.  Anywhere else on the pitch and that's get's blown up as a foul 99.99% of the time.

I look forward to the PGMOL publicly stating Michael Oliver doesn't know the rules of football then.

So the decision at Palace last season was correct because PGMOL didn't release a statement criticising Kevin Friend?

What's Palace got to do with anything?

People keep saying the fact he played the ball is irrelevant.  The ref specifically said that was why he changed his mind.  If the ref's got that wrong it's a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of the rules which the PGMOL will no doubt be along to tell us about any time soon.

Again the laws of the game contain no mention of playing the ball in this regard, they do say that playing the ball if the follow-through is reckless or with excessive force shouldn't stop a yellow or red card (so by the letter of the law Mee on Wesley should've bene a straight red, but PGMOL didn't come out and criticise the ref there either). Where the result is just a free kick (where the tackle is deemed careless) thew ball isn't mentioned.

That leaves it completely open to interpretation, is kicking someone in the shin careless? Is it no long careless if you make tiny contact with the ball? Is it no longer careless if you clearly win the ball but still trip the player on the follow-through?

The middle question is the important one and I don't see how you have any consistency if you allow the answer to be yes or sometimes.

 


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