Jacob Ramsey

[villa for life]

Your post is verging on abusive. Please apologize to Tim. Mods, have a word.

Nobody mentioned the words “proper shit recruitment”.

Please also mind your manners .

I suppose comparing you to Tim does deserve an apology, I don't think Tim has repeatedly advised us to sell a current World Cup winner and two time Yashin holder yet. But he did always advocate we should get Bamford in so swings and roundabouts.

Don’t get personal. Be civil and keep it to football.

[PaulWinch again]

You’re conflating some things though Bronte. What we did with Duran is very strong recruitment, you buy low and either have picked up a talent who could augment the team or you move them on for a huge profit. Our forward line being weaker currently, is about the constraints related to UEFA competition, specifically the one placed on us in respect of the “A” squad.

[Somniloquism]

Don’t get personal. Be civil and keep it to football.

You are talking about football, the talk you do is wrong. I'm commenting that it is a wrong the same as Paulie. I haven't called YOU as a person anything.

[LeonW]

We haven’t really been stung on the sales front. Targett, Grealish, Ings, Duran, Diaby, Luiz; I think we’ve won on all fronts and been smart. But this one could be different.

Not sure about that at all. No matter what we sell players for, it's not worth all that much if the funds aren't reinvested to make the team better.

Grealish - replaced by Ings, Bailey and Buendia. Frankly a disaster that cost Deano his job, still trying to get rid of two of the three of them.
Luiz - yes Tielemans did a great job replacing his influence as our playmaker last season but Luiz was replaced in the squad by Onana, I'll be kind and say a dud thus far.
Ings, yes and credit to Emery there. Hard decision but Watkins thrived immediately without him and Ings was done.
Duran - big profit made on him but it's all relative. He was a ready made Watkins replacement and we are now more reliant on Ollie than ever.
Diaby - maybe Malen will provide that direct pace option he brought, Rogers has stepped into the breach with more potential to be fair.
Targett - was it Digne who replaced him? Fine I guess, cheers Stevie G

I’m very much counting trading out as different to trading in although I would take the point that they directly correlate.

But following that view, based on the above:

• Grealish- you have to factor in the pure profit element. Plus, without doing the maths, I wonder how close it is on goals/assist from the 3 recruited players VS just Grealish. The wages also.
• Tielemans was the Luiz replacement and that’s been an upgrade.
• Ings was replaced with Duran. A better longer term prospect as evidenced by his progress and finally sale amount.
• Duran was great business. I doubt anyone will get anywhere close to what we got during the rest of his career. His behaviour effectively forced our hand. With a bit more patience on his part, he could have legitimately been our number one striker by now.
• Diaby - not quite sure who directly replaced him. Combination of Rodgers/Malen?
• Targett replaced with Digne - massive upgrade.

Don’t forget Philogene (“thinks that, I am on the one” -will get my coat).

That pure profit argument is one I hate to be honest and no doubt it's the same reason why Ramsey was sold today. Grealish was a bad sale for us, maybe not the best buy for Citeh either. Spurs & Bale comes to mind.

We can agree to disagree on Luiz/Tielemans, for a lot of last season plenty were worried about where our goal threat from midfield had disappeared to. They both played well together too with Tielemans higher up. Onana simply can't play that role so it's a net loss there. Onana for me was just poorly scouted and we way overpaid for him.

I agree on Duran, he was impossible to manage so had to go. But the reality is our forward line last season was far stronger than it looks now.

I think Emerys recruitment has been good rather than spectacular, Rogers obviously the stand out. But his main strength has been coaching, tactical instruction and man management in turning around a core of underperforming players. McGinn, Mings, Cash, Digne, Luiz, Tielemans (signed but he was in hibernation), Watkins. Id love to have seen how he could have really got JJ going this season.

Hate it though me might, the pure profit element is relevant when assessing player trading.

I never saw or consider Onana to be a Luiz replacement. He’s a completely different type of option. Tielemans has demonstrated excellence before in his career. For me, Luiz has only looked a player when he’s had Kamara next to him.

But the main thing above all is, there is just no way we would have been able to compete in the way we have with the financial rules and restrictions without effective player trading in and out.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I'm. Not convinced that Ramsey will go on to be the world beater we thought he would. Then again, a new start might just give him the motivation. I don't think it was ever going to happen here.

I don't think motivation is his problem, far from it, getting a run of games will be a factor in wanting to leave plus having a coach who really rates him. It will do his confidence no end of good, not that Unai doesn't rate him, it's probably more of the swapping and changing can be disruptive when you want the minutes to reach top form.

Howe's football will probably suit Ramsey more and I'll wish him the best. Not Newcastle, just JJ.

[Dave]

I don't really see how he fits in their system though.

He's not going to be one of the massive lummoxes in their midfield three so that leaves him as a full-on winger in their 4-3-3 and that's not really his game.

He's a bit like a better Murphy for the left side, but it seems an odd use of their £40m to just add more depth to Gordon and Barnes, when they still don't own a first-team striker who is willing to play football for them.

[villa for life]

Don’t get personal. Be civil and keep it to football.

You are talking about football, the talk you do is wrong. I'm commenting that it is a wrong the same as Paulie. I haven't called YOU as a person anything.

You said “ I suppose comparing you to Tim does deserve an apology”

That is reference to me. (Not my opinions )

Paulie said “ I mean, honestly, that's a Tim level post. Worse, even.“

That’s also personal and infers that whatever Tim says is not worthy.

This should be a site where everyone ‘s view is welcome, no matter how crazy.

Some think defenders don’t need to defend.
Some think results don’t matter
Some think Martínez should be sold.
Some think getting £40 mill for Jacob is a good deal.
Some think the recruitment policy hasn’t been great. Some think it had been great.

Chill.

[Olneythelonely]

That’s also personal and infers that whatever Tim says is not worthy.

It isn’t.

[Nev]

All but done according to the Beeb. I'm sad because he is "one of us" but do think that he has not progressed as much as we expected since his injuries.

I feel that we are moving into a different phase with Emery, close last year but not quite there. It may take another couple of seasons to get that major trophy and this sale feels like part of the transition.

[PeterWithesShin]

Tim is dimmer than a 1w energy bulb.

[pauliewalnuts]

You’re conflating some things though Bronte. What we did with Duran is very strong recruitment, you buy low and either have picked up a talent who could augment the team or you move them on for a huge profit. Our forward line being weaker currently, is about the constraints related to UEFA competition, specifically the one placed on us in respect of the “A” squad.

Exactly this.

[pauliewalnuts]

That’s also personal and infers that whatever Tim says is not worthy.

It isn’t.

That made me laugh. And, what's more, it genuinely isn't.

[Somniloquism]

It will be interesting where he plays though (or who he replaces in the squad). He plays left wing / left midfield for us so you assume similar for them. First choice there is Gordan/Barnes for the wing. Midfield behind is normally Joelinton, Tonali and Guimarães. My guess will be Joelinton's position will be shared with JJ, although the former did go from a very shit striker to quiet a decent midfielder in that position. Of course whilst Isak if playing silly buggers, Gordan is forward so a further spot is open for JJ at the moment. Howe has also done a lot of experimentation with 3-5-3 with Livramento as wingback.

[villa for life]

You’re conflating some things though Bronte. What we did with Duran is very strong recruitment, you buy low and either have picked up a talent who could augment the team or you move them on for a huge profit. Our forward line being weaker currently, is about the constraints related to UEFA competition, specifically the one placed on us in respect of the “A” squad.

Exactly this.

Totally. Duran and Rogers have been the bright spots of our recruitment in the last few seasons.

[pauliewalnuts]

You’re conflating some things though Bronte. What we did with Duran is very strong recruitment, you buy low and either have picked up a talent who could augment the team or you move them on for a huge profit. Our forward line being weaker currently, is about the constraints related to UEFA competition, specifically the one placed on us in respect of the “A” squad.

Exactly this.

Totally. Duran and Rogers have been the bright spots of our recruitment in the last few seasons.

Yeah, but what I was saying was that you saying:

Spot on. Our recruitment the last few years has not been great, and changing this is our route to a brighter future. People ask how can we compete with the likes of Liverpool and city etc? Well, think of Bournemouth, Brighton , Palace , Brentford and forest who have had even less transfer budget and don’t /can’t pay the kind of wages we do. What must they be thinking?

Doesn't stand up to analysis because:

1. We've somehow managed to engage in 'not great' recruitment and yet manage to reach the QF of the Champions League and the semi final of another European competition, qualify for Europe 4 years on the bounce, and finish in the top six on more than one occasion.

So how can it be 'not great', given that?

and:

2. You then referred to those other clubs and their view of what we do, when we have to do exactly the sort of thing they do - ie buy and sell players for profit - and that's the very fact that currently leads us to doing stuff like selling Ramsey.

I do apologise for comparing you to Tim, though, that was a pretty low blow.