Tyrone Mings

[simboy]

In Europe he's managed to directly lose us the game in Bruges and fuck up last night, too.

All that good work of beating the likes of Bayern, of a routine win at YB, a late escape in Leipzig, all that good stuff, out the fucking window

We're too nice as a fanbase.

Move him on in the summer, not good enough for where we want to get to.

He made a mistake last night, that’s true, but so did every single player out there. In fact if it hadn’t of been for Mings the slating of Rogers would have been a lot worse. He must have got Morgan out of three or four holes. Easy to just see the bad but his  good far outweighed that.

Prior to the goal Konsa misplaced a pass which could have led to a goal, Rogers couldn’t pass to a blue shirt for the last 30 minutes. There were other, numerous f*ck ups that could easily have led to a goal.

Personally I think there are Mings games and Torres games, last night ideally was a Torres game. We didn’t have that option, as we didn’t have McGinn or a functioning midfield.

As someone else said, if the police would have let us we’d have walked up to get the train at about 70 minutes. But you cannot blame it entirely on Mings. They were an awful team.

[Olneythelonely]

He’s decided to die on the ‘Pau is shit’ hill.

It’s like when that total dimwit Coopers Injury used to go on about Jermaine “he’s at it again” Beckford.

[dave.woodhall]

He’s decided to die on the ‘Pau is shit’ hill.

It’s like when that total dimwit Coopers Injury used to go on about Jermaine “he’s at it again” Beckford.

I never thought we'd have anyone on here as dimwitted as Coopers Injury. He really was the dimwit's dimwit.

[VillaTim]

In Europe he's managed to directly lose us the game in Bruges and fuck up last night, too.

All that good work of beating the likes of Bayern, of a routine win at YB, a late escape in Leipzig, all that good stuff, out the fucking window

We're too nice as a fanbase.

Move him on in the summer, not good enough for where we want to get to.

Just to remind you we scored 0 goals in Bruges and 0 goals last night , missed at least 2 gilt edged chances too . Blaming Mings for the losses is plain stupid .

[Olneythelonely]

In Europe he's managed to directly lose us the game in Bruges and fuck up last night, too.

All that good work of beating the likes of Bayern, of a routine win at YB, a late escape in Leipzig, all that good stuff, out the fucking window

We're too nice as a fanbase.

Move him on in the summer, not good enough for where we want to get to.

Just to remind you we scored 0 goals in Bruges and 0 goals last night , missed at least 2 gilt edged chances too . Blaming Mings for the losses is plain stupid .

So you can blame a loss on a missed chance but not for a defender chucking one in?

[PeterWithesShin]

I blame McGinn for missing the game through injury.

[PaulWinch again]

In Europe he's managed to directly lose us the game in Bruges and fuck up last night, too.

All that good work of beating the likes of Bayern, of a routine win at YB, a late escape in Leipzig, all that good stuff, out the fucking window

We're too nice as a fanbase.

Move him on in the summer, not good enough for where we want to get to.

Just to remind you we scored 0 goals in Bruges and 0 goals last night , missed at least 2 gilt edged chances too . Blaming Mings for the losses is plain stupid .

But we kept clean sheets against Bologna, Juve, and Bayern with the “liability” Torres in defence. He also set up the winner, in the historic victory against Bayern - a pass none of the other centre halves would have seen let alone made.

See for our play the centre backs need to play a key role in our attack as well. Mings and Konsa both couldn’t do it. Also if you’re talking about being a liability let’s not joke around, had Torres done what Mings did against Brugge or Monaco you would be losing your mind. You might not realise it but you have a clear bias.

Mings is a good squad player, but Torres’ ceiling is higher - it just is.

[RamboandBruno]

Yep it’s all very well controlling the game, tempo, possession if you’re actually winning the game.

Correct and all this talk of Torres and his passing as if he's been sublime every game whereas this season he's been miles off his passing form of last year and hasn't improved defensively either as we'd all hoped.

Without wishing to highlight a hint bias - it’s absolutely true we’ve conceded less since Ty came in regularly, and he’s done well. But we’ve also played West Ham, Leicester, Everton, and Arsenal domestically
. It hasn’t been the sternest test, except Arsenal where we did concede 2. Now I’m not saying that doesn’t mean there’s been an improvement, but I wouldn’t say it’s conclusive. Also whether you think Torres’ passing form has reached the levels of last year, it is indisputable that he is levels above the other centre halves in that respect.

It's not a hint bias .
Torres as a defender is a massive liability . Mings has improved the defence significantly already and he's not even at 100% yet . Argue with the stats for as long as you want , but Torres is a major issue in the centre of a defence . And if you're going to diminish Mings by referencing opponents we conceded 2 v Your Everton's , Ipswich's and Palaces with Torres as CB .

If you include the Brighton game as a Mings game as Torres only played a couple of minutes, we’ve let in 7 goals in the last 6 games Mings has played, we let 9 in the previous 6 games Torres played, which included 3 against Newcastle when we were down to 10 men early doors. So stats wise were are letting in less but theres not a massive difference and certainly not enough of a difference for you to keep on propagating the narrative that Torres is the cause of most of our ills and Mings the saviour. And for the record I love what Mings has done for us.

[VillaTim]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[brontebilly]

Great servant to the club but really struggling to get back to the level he was. Sad to watch him in last 30 mins tonight

Bit premature imo.

Possibly, fatigue is definitely an issue. But it's his distribution, particularly when partnered with Konsa, is really poor. I'm talking about simple passes, not the ones Torres can make from deep.

[Demitri_C]

Dont blame ty too much obvious  playing way too many minutes and having a impact on him.

How many minutes had he played when he picked the ball up in Bruges?

I think you are over reacting personally. Move him on really?? He made the silly error vs brugges but did nothing  else wrong in that game. Yesterday  he generally  defended well but made a mistake but the guys played  a lot of minutes he looks exhausted. Hence why im suggesting rotation with a youngster or at least come on as a sub until cover is brought in

[PhilVill]

A great servant for the club but will be off in the summer, he won't be the only one.

[Demitri_C]

I think he will be kept on personally  just for his leadership that we desperately  lack

[brontebilly]

In Europe he's managed to directly lose us the game in Bruges and fuck up last night, too.

All that good work of beating the likes of Bayern, of a routine win at YB, a late escape in Leipzig, all that good stuff, out the fucking window

We're too nice as a fanbase.

Move him on in the summer, not good enough for where we want to get to.

Just to remind you we scored 0 goals in Bruges and 0 goals last night , missed at least 2 gilt edged chances too . Blaming Mings for the losses is plain stupid .

But we kept clean sheets against Bologna, Juve, and Bayern with the “liability” Torres in defence. He also set up the winner, in the historic victory against Bayern - a pass none of the other centre halves would have seen let alone made.

See for our play the centre backs need to play a key role in our attack as well. Mings and Konsa both couldn’t do it. Also if you’re talking about being a liability let’s not joke around, had Torres done what Mings did against Brugge or Monaco you would be losing your mind. You might not realise it but you have a clear bias.

Mings is a good squad player, but Torres’ ceiling is higher - it just is.

Long/rambling post alert!

Analysing Mings v Torres is fine but it surely needs a wider sample size than CL games this season. It needs to be said but the standard of CL football so far has been average at best. I guess the previous CL group stage format was at best pedestrian too but this hasn't changed all that much this year. 

Our defenders get far more time on the ball in the CL. Even Carlos looked competent against Juve who played without a striker. This suits Torres who was to be fair outstanding v Bayern. Bologna, Berne, Brugge, Monaco, RBL are all very average teams, Berne were championship level at best. Celtic won't be much better. However when a disinterested RBL pushed up on us late on Torres was part of a defensive unit that completely collapsed. That back pass should have cost us the game that night.

Mings for his part was poor in Brugge and was awful last night. He struggled terribly with the ball at his feet last night. He was beaten in the air for their goal too, the set piece started with one of his many dreadful passes into midfield. It was a horror show and he wasn't even our worst CB.

In the PL this season, Torres has been really poor. His poor form extends into the back end of last season too. Average physical strikers like Jimenez blatantly target him and he can't cope. His confidence with the ball has taken a knock too, running into trouble far too often. He would want to be pulling TAA esque playmaking numbers to make up for his limitations.

Mings has done ok in the PL but I was hoping to be honest he would pull Konsa back into the line. That hasn't happened at all. Emery has finally managed to get rid of Carlos. So until the new guy lands, that's what we have.

As others have pointed out, Kamara is one of the best holding midfielders in the PL, Martinez form has slipped but even at that one of the best in the world, Cash despite his limitations and Digne are having their strongest seasons at the club. So it's beyond time our three senior centre backs either ship up or follow Carlos out the door in the summer.

[PaulWinch again]

Yes my point is not to say that Pau hasn’t struggled for form this season, he clearly has and if you were picking players solely on who’s stronger in the air and more combative then you’d pick Mings. So my point isn’t that Mings is a bad player - but expanding out the sample size Pau has shown he can play as part of a functioning defensive system. He’s not a liability, he was a central part of what we were at our very best - and he is integral in getting our attacking play to work.

His form needs to be better, but the issues with the whole defensive system within the team have influenced that. Pau at his best is a better player overall, but Ty has some good attributes and is a useful squad member and has been a great servant. If the end game was to have Ty starting every week we wouldn’t be good enough longer-term.