Tyrone Mings

[Brazilian Villain]

I think it's really simple.  Mings is no longer first choice left CB.   McGinn although captain from the outset, better get his act together or he will be dropped as well.

Yep, that's my take on it as well.

[paul_e]

 I don't think it's about being first choice or not but rather whether being captain is a burden or a motivation for the player. With Mings I suspect he took being captain very seriously, to the point of being as concerned about how other people are playing as he was about his own game. By asking him to take a step back Gerrard is telling him to only concentrate on his own game for now. Given lapses in concentration and errors are the main criticisms of him that makes sense.

[dutchvilla]

I think Mings had a better season as captain than he did when Joe was still here

[villainabroad]

I like Mings and I think he's the best captain we had in a long time, though also prone to howlers, like a lot of our defenders in recent years. He might not be first choice now... but to also strip him of any captaincy role (step forward role model/ref-baiter Ashley Young to be our club captain) at this point a few days before we start the season did seem a bit of a strange move to me. And the line about concentrating on his own game seems open to speculation.

Which is exactly what all this is I guess. We're all speculating here, but SG's move did seem to put Mings down (which may end up with TM coming back stronger, who knows). But the oddest thing of all was appointing McGinn - if ever there was a player who needed to step up after a poor year...

I suppose like Deano, SG has his favourites (AY, JMcG, PC?) and Mings isn't one of them.

[brontebilly]

I like Mings and I think he's the best captain we had in a long time, though also prone to howlers, like a lot of our defenders in recent years. He might not be first choice now... but to also strip him of any captaincy role (step forward role model/ref-baiter Ashley Young to be our club captain) at this point a few days before we start the season did seem a bit of a strange move to me. And the line about concentrating on his own game seems open to speculation.

Which is exactly what all this is I guess. We're all speculating here, but SG's move did seem to put Mings down (which may end up with TM coming back stronger, who knows). But the oddest thing of all was appointing McGinn - if ever there was a player who needed to step up after a poor year...

I suppose like Deano, SG has his favourites (AY, JMcG, PC?) and Mings isn't one of them.

The AY one irritates me (another one!). He proved beyond doubt he was past it last season. We have brought in another backup LB and seem covered at RB too with KKH. Why do we need him?

For footballing reasons I think we should have been backing EB as our talisman. PC a huge talent no doubt but we didn't need him. Just think Gerrard will continue to struggle to fit both in to the detriment of the team.

[villainabroad]

Couldn't agree more about Young. EB's treatment is another odd one from SG. His treatment of Targett too (had been underperforming but I don't think he's actually that much worse than Digne to be honest). Might be going off topic now though!

[pelty]

I loved having Mings as a captain.  As an individual , I thought he was the best captain we’ve had in a long time. An absolute role model, who speaks very well off the field about a whole range of issues. His public response to losing the captaincy made me more proud to have him here.

But if losing the captaincy makes him more consistent, then I’m all for it. I believe he is a very good player, but he does have that annoying mistake in him too regularly. And he will be as much of a leader without the armband than he has been with it. So
I understand Gerrards rationale.

A straw poll on here at the end of last season, would no doubt have McGinn as the biggest under performer (from the regulars). Yet he was rewarded with the captaincy. It's one of a number of unnecessary moves from Gerrard since he joined.

Mings was making those annoying mistakes with or without the captaincy previously. Happy to be proven wrong but I suspect last season his unforced errors leading to goals/xG stat was quite low compared to the two previous when Grealish was captain. I've no issue if for footballing reasons Gerrard thinks Carlos will be a better player and help us progress. It's rewarding McGinn that beggars belief for me.

Right on the money!

[RamboandBruno]

Couldn't agree more about Young. EB's treatment is another odd one from SG. His treatment of Targett too (had been underperforming but I don't think he's actually that much worse than Digne to be honest). Might be going off topic now though!

It is going off subject, but can’t agree over Targett, with nothing against him as he was a solid professional, but Digne is a far superior player.
I want to see EB in the team, but the idea that we don’t need Coutinhio (i know you didn’t say this) is bizarre, he’s a brilliant player.

[KevinGage]

Seems SG just doesn't fancy him.

I may have missed it, but nothing in his tenure to date has bigged up the contribution of one of our key players these past few years.

Shortly after taking the job he was making noises about the captaincy being open to other candidates. Later in the season he was saying one of the new signings might be captain. And now he's given it to a player who (as much as I like him) was more of a liability than Tyrone last year.

 

[Gareth]

I have no problem with the captaincy change, it wasn’t even a ruthless change, had he done it mid season that would have been but Gerrard has reviewed and decided it’s in best interests of team and Mings to change it.  He has every incentive to hit the ground running this season, if he wants to go to the World Cup he needs good form (unless of course he is Maguire) & the lack of captaincy won’t hurt….also means we’ll have our captain round whilst World Cup is on as guess it won’t be a full holiday break.

[Footy-Vill]

I don't think it's about being first choice or not but rather whether being captain is a burden or a motivation for the player. With Mings I suspect he took being captain very seriously, to the point of being as concerned about how other people are playing as he was about his own game. By asking him to take a step back Gerrard is telling him to only concentrate on his own game for now. Given lapses in concentration and errors are the main criticisms of him that makes sense.

I do hope Mings is in the team against Bournemouth.
I'm starting to suspect he won't be starting.

[pauliewalnuts]

Couldn't agree more about Young. EB's treatment is another odd one from SG. His treatment of Targett too (had been underperforming but I don't think he's actually that much worse than Digne to be honest). Might be going off topic now though!

It is going off subject, but can’t agree over Targett, with nothing against him as he was a solid professional, but Digne is a far superior player.

Digne is on a totally different level to Targett going forward. Targett is a solid defensive full back, which was fine when he had Grealish in front of him and didn't need to get forward so much, but doesn't work without him, and doesn't fit in with Gerrard's way of playing.

Nothing against Targett, he seems a good bloke and is a solid player and you've got to respect his desire not to sit on his arse, but sometimes a deal is just good for all parties concerned, and this is an example of that.

I think Digne for 27 or whatever it was we paid for him is a great deal and we were lucky to exploit a chronic piece of mis-management from Everton (manager falls out with top player, sell top player, then literally days later sack the manager).

[Villan82]

Mings had an iffy spell before Smith was sacked. Remember Smith dropped him for the West Ham game? McGinn initially did well under Gerrard. Scoring at palace and bossing the cup game against Man U. He did fade after that but a bit of that was it seemingly being his turn to be scapegoat.

[Hookeysmith]

SG assessment at the end of the season was that of course we needed more goals (although we were in the top 10 scorers last year) the issue was that we conceded too many goals and lost so many points from either good or winning positions. I think the City capitulation on final day was the straw that broke the camels back and i think he held Mings as Captain as being part of the issue

Someone in defence was going to pay and as Konsa was injured towards the end and Chambers not being too bad it was TM in the firing line.

As much as i like Ty and even have a bit of a man crush over him, i cannot argue that he was part of the problem.

Would not be surprised to see Konsa / Carlos or Chambers / Carlos as being preferred choices

[KevinGage]

'That Mings, always has a howler in him,' seems to be the accepted narrative now.

He's not McGrath levels of infallible, no.

But he's no more error prone than Stones, Maguire and a whole host of other top 4>6 centre halves. The game has moved on from two banks of four, so centre halves are generally more exposed these days.  With the starting position of both of our full-backs from Nov last year, peak McGrath may have even struggled. Then again...

From SG's comments in the presser today it sounds personal. I wouldn't be stunned if Tyrone was away by the deadline.