Tyrone Mings

[ChicagoLion]

Excellent on and off the pitch from Mings.

It did strike me though how times have changed when England fans are being lauded for their anti-racism.

I suppose you could say that. Hard to believe it's over 20 years since England fans were giving the Nazi salute and tearing up the seating in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. Certainly the game has come along a lot in this part of the world since then. But obviously not elsewhere.

I think you have to be careful labeling them England fans, there is a certain element that are attracted to certain games. They have not gone away they just pick their moments. We also have to counter some of the idiots who sing songs about black players at VP and elsewhere.

[AsTallAsLions]

Excellent on and off the pitch from Mings.

It did strike me though how times have changed when England fans are being lauded for their anti-racism.

I suppose you could say that. Hard to believe it's over 20 years since England fans were giving the Nazi salute and tearing up the seating in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. Certainly the game has come along a lot in this part of the world since then. But obviously not elsewhere.

I think you have to be careful labeling them England fans, there is a certain element that are attracted to certain games. They have not gone away they just pick their moments. We also have to counter some of the idiots who sing songs about black players at VP and elsewhere.

Well, it is a fine line. How do you define a fan? I'm sure if we had a Bulgarian member on here, they would have a perspective on the minority of fans who were hurling abuse at the players last night. The brunt of it appeared to be organised, just like the Combat 18 fellas who organised that mad stuff in Dublin in '95.

But all of those individuals paid for entry to the ground. Just like the Villa fans who, unfortunately, have awful world-views and attitudes towards people of colour, including songs sang at some of our own players. Are they racists? Yes. Does that mean they're not 'fans' like we are? Not necessarily at all. They could be quite knowledgeable and sincere in their support for the club/nation, despite their disgusting behaviour. I actually think it's quite dangerous to compartmentalise these people.

The reality is, in a Villa context, it could be the people sitting next to us in the Holte. You won't see salutes, but you might hear some awful vitriol from a frustrated fan that borders on racism, or a song that clearly has racist undertones as you've referred to. It's harder to compartmentalise them or imply they're not really 'fans' when these are the people who go to the games week in, week out.

[purpletrousers]

Agreed. “Othering” is very seductive and makes it feel easier to be who we are, to not own our* shadow/less pleasant bits. There is unconscious/everyday racism in all of us.

I was struck with that “Liam Neeson says he's 'not racist' after controversial interview”. If he’d have started from acknowledging we all have our concious or unconscious prejudices he might have got his good intentions taken more seriously.

I always recommend this (3.5mins) video to folk on everyday racism by Akala (Musician/writer/all rounder, was West Ham/Wimbledon youth) 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/mar/18/everyday-racism-what-should-we-do

Have seen it really affect a training group atmosphere as collective pennies drop.

*edit: individual and collective

[chrisw1]

Agreed. “Othering” is very seductive and makes it feel easier to be who we are, to not own our* shadow/less pleasant bits. There is unconscious/everyday racism in all of us.

I was struck with that “Liam Neeson says he's 'not racist' after controversial interview”. If he’d have started from acknowledging we all have our concious or unconscious prejudices he might have got his good intentions taken more seriously.

I always recommend this (3.5mins) video to folk on everyday racism by Akala (Musician/writer/all rounder, was West Ham/Wimbledon youth) 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/mar/18/everyday-racism-what-should-we-do

Have seen it really affect a training group atmosphere as collective pennies drop.

*edit: individual and collective

That's an excllent and thought provoking video - thanks PT.

[Whiney MacWhineface]

Everything one reads about Mings makes one gulp with pride - not just that he's a Villa player, but that he's a fellow human.

[KevinGage]

“It didn’t affect my feelings. I think I’m quite lucky in that way because I don’t feel like it is a personal assault. I feel sorry for the people who have those views. But I also have a duty to represent people that don’t have a voice, so it didn’t hurt or harm my feelings one bit. It was obviously bigger than me and bigger than what I felt.”

He's one of the good guys. 

But then we knew that already.

[Mister E]

Excellent on and off the pitch from Mings.

It did strike me though how times have changed when England fans are being lauded for their anti-racism.

I suppose you could say that. Hard to believe it's over 20 years since England fans were giving the Nazi salute and tearing up the seating in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. Certainly the game has come along a lot in this part of the world since then. But obviously not elsewhere.

I think you have to be careful labeling them England fans, there is a certain element that are attracted to certain games. They have not gone away they just pick their moments. We also have to counter some of the idiots who sing songs about black players at VP and elsewhere.

My observation last night was that whilst 25% of the England team (and, apparently around 40% of Premier League players) are BAME there appeared to be very few BAME supporters in the England enclosure. Perhaps our game will know it's sorted out properly when the proportion stats for players, managers, coaches and fans are roughly the same.

[paul_e]

Getting the attention he deserves - https://twitter.com/EddieHughes4WN/status/1184134770667773952?s=19

[purpletrousers]

Getting the attention he deserves - https://twitter.com/EddieHughes4WN/status/1184134770667773952?s=19

Fantastic. Was curious about if the Sports Minister (in a Govt with no majority ; ) Nigel Adams had any allegiances, but wiki says cricket not football:

“A keen sportsman, he played competitive cricket in the York Senior League and is a former member of the Yorkshire Cricket Club's members committee. Adams is currently Secretary of the Lords and Commons Cricket Club and whilst captaining the side against MCC in June 2013 at Lord's Cricket Ground he scored his career best innings of 125 not out.[34]”

Couldn’t help but smile that 6th reply was a video of TM initiating/leading  Allez Allez from the balcony after promotion. Forgot the wingspan of the man is just so colossal!

[Steve67]

Love him.  Played really well last night too. 

[kippaxvilla2]

We mustn’t forget him still wearing his kit at Bournemouth station.  Already a Villa legend.

[brentastonb6]

We mustn’t forget him still wearing his kit at Bournemouth station.  Already a Villa legend.

Or laughing in the face of the angry unwashed of Small Heath at the Sty . Tried to wind him up but failed miserably.

[mike]

Excellent on and off the pitch from Mings.

It did strike me though how times have changed when England fans are being lauded for their anti-racism.

I suppose you could say that. Hard to believe it's over 20 years since England fans were giving the Nazi salute and tearing up the seating in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. Certainly the game has come along a lot in this part of the world since then. But obviously not elsewhere.

I think you have to be careful labeling them England fans, there is a certain element that are attracted to certain games. They have not gone away they just pick their moments. We also have to counter some of the idiots who sing songs about black players at VP and elsewhere.

My observation last night was that whilst 25% of the England team (and, apparently around 40% of Premier League players) are BAME there appeared to be very few BAME supporters in the England enclosure. Perhaps our game will know it's sorted out properly when the proportion stats for players, managers, coaches and fans are roughly the same.

Definitely an issue that the racial balance of both the team and the city is not reflected in our attendances. Exactly the same for the England team. I'm not a massive Ian Wright fan, but you could understand last night that he wanted to concentrate on how fucking awful this situation is rather than how things are getting better, whereas the white guys thought it was some kind of victory. I would have liked to see Kane or someone else white just walk off. Obviously, I am proud of Tyrone and that intervention we all saw but it needs the white players and the white fans to understand how fucking disgusting this all is if it's something you get every second of every day. We need to get our black mates down to Villa Park.

[paul_e]

Excellent on and off the pitch from Mings.

It did strike me though how times have changed when England fans are being lauded for their anti-racism.

I suppose you could say that. Hard to believe it's over 20 years since England fans were giving the Nazi salute and tearing up the seating in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. Certainly the game has come along a lot in this part of the world since then. But obviously not elsewhere.

I think you have to be careful labeling them England fans, there is a certain element that are attracted to certain games. They have not gone away they just pick their moments. We also have to counter some of the idiots who sing songs about black players at VP and elsewhere.

My observation last night was that whilst 25% of the England team (and, apparently around 40% of Premier League players) are BAME there appeared to be very few BAME supporters in the England enclosure. Perhaps our game will know it's sorted out properly when the proportion stats for players, managers, coaches and fans are roughly the same.

Definitely an issue that the racial balance of both the team and the city is not reflected in our attendances. Exactly the same for the England team. I'm not a massive Ian Wright fan, but you could understand last night that he wanted to concentrate on how fucking awful this situation is rather than how things are getting better, whereas the white guys thought it was some kind of victory. I would have liked to see Kane or someone else white just walk off. Obviously, I am proud of Tyrone and that intervention we all saw but it needs the white players and the white fans to understand how fucking disgusting this all is if it's something you get every second of every day. We need to get our black mates down to Villa Park.

I'm not sure the balance there is right though. Football players, in the premier league aren't representative of the country as a whole, the sheer number of players who aren't eligible for England should prove that. Even if you only look at Home Nation qualified players the representation isn't correct, the number of Asian origin players is far too small and the number of African origin players is far too high so expecting similar representation in the crowd is asking for the impossible. However I don't disagree that football crowds do need to become more inclusive, but that also applies to women and LGBT.

[Sexual Ealing]

This all needed to blow up to have a chance to get sorted, just like the “supportive” racism of our own fans thoughtlessly/maliciously (probably elements of both) using offensive  stereotypes.

Tyrone has often presented as such a dignified figure, whilst I wish it didn’t need to happen, I’m glad he’s been there to help bring it to a head in as calm and mature manner as I think could be done.

“It didn’t affect my feelings. I think I’m quite lucky in that way because I don’t feel like it is a personal assault. I feel sorry for the people who have those views. But I also have a duty to represent people that don’t have a voice, so it didn’t hurt or harm my feelings one bit. It was obviously bigger than me and bigger than what I felt.”

I think this is the best example I’ve seen so far of what a sound head he has on his shoulders*. This guy will be an ambassador for football and maybe beyond for decades.

One thing I try to remember when I’m in Uganda and having to find the right/realistic balance with homophobia (including potentially effectively state/foreign sponsored hatred & violence) is that it was still illegal in the UK in 1967 and still labelled an illness in my life time 1973/1987. I’m not sure there is a clear point here beyond a need to retain some perspective and create the best conditions and opportunity to change, literally  opportunity for some people to think, sometimes for the first time, beyond the hatred and prejudice they’ve learned/assumed.

From what I’ve seen, I think the dignity with which Tyrone and the team conducted themselves, boosted by just being better on the pitch was perfect.

Also there have been just so many TM new stories you couldn’t link them all here.

I hadn’t picked up before he was prompted to get help with his mental health before.

*I’d missed this March 2019 story which covers that and so much of his background, even pulling out of a TalkSport interview on principle but but being willing to give them another go.
http://Https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/03/27/tyrone-mings-lived-homeless-shelter-child-now-duty-help-others/

This is a great post PT.

I'd only add that he'd have had an equally sound head on his shoulders if he'd had contempt, rather than pity, for them and called them a shower of ******!*

*This may have been less helpful in the long-term.