The International Cricket Thread

[PaulWinch again]

Our bowling issues are mostly due to losing Broad, Anderson and Woakes in the space of 18months. We were always going to have a period where our level dropped.

Oh sure, that’s a big impact. But they’ve made things really hard for themselves as well. Lots of examples - this tour taking basically three opening bowlers, one in Potts who they obviously don’t rate, and this leading to opening with Carse.

Bashir - it’s fine to identify someone to develop, but to basically put all their eggs in one basket forsaking all others and backing out in the moment of truth is odd.

Giving some players lots of rope and conversely Dawson and Cook get a game each, on the flattest possible pitches, and are discarded.

[aev]

Australia have been without most of their better bowlers too.

Mind you, their back ups have the luxury of bowling to our batsmen.

Key and McCullum surely have to go.

[paul_e]

Our bowling issues are mostly due to losing Broad, Anderson and Woakes in the space of 18months. We were always going to have a period where our level dropped.

Oh sure, that’s a big impact. But they’ve made things really hard for themselves as well. Lots of examples - this tour taking basically three opening bowlers, one in Potts who they obviously don’t rate, and this leading to opening with Carse.

Bashir - it’s fine to identify someone to develop, but to basically put all their eggs in one basket forsaking all others and backing out in the moment of truth is odd.

Giving some players lots of rope and conversely Dawson and Cook get a game each, on the flattest possible pitches, and are discarded.

I agree on Bashir but I don't think Dawson was ever a reasonable alternative so I'm not surprised he didn't get much of a chance. Aside from the fact that he's nearly 36 there's also the problem that his game is clearly more suited to limited over cricket. His First class record is 373 wickets in 214 matches, compare that the last genuinely world class spinner we had in Swann who was 739 in 252 and you can see the problem with him, he just doesn't take many wickets in 4day/5day cricket. Bashir is 87 in 35, which is better but he's clearly still very early in his career and probably should've been left playing county cricket for a few more years. All that said i don't know what better choices could've been made, the simple truth is that the way we setup the season in England means spinners just don't get chance to really push themselves in the county game, which is why we've produced 2 of true international standard in aobut the last 30 years (Giles and Swann).

I agree on Cook though, he deserved more chance and probably should've been taken ahead of Wood who must surely be done at international level now as he's physically incapable of doing the job we need, which is a huge shame because when fit he's superb. I also wish they've not been so weird with Potts, I think he should've played much more than he has.

[PaulWinch again]

It’s also something that it takes Bethell to say “look at Smith and Root, you need to deal with the first 20-30 balls and then look to progress” or words to that effect. He’s a rookie and is aware of something and talking more sense than more experienced colleagues.

[PaulWinch again]

On the spinner point I agree there aren’t any amazing options, but I don’t get the squad logic of not taking Leach or Dawson. The former is a better bowler than he was the last time he was here. But as a general principle how they’ve ended up with no genuine alternative to their project spinner is just bad planning.

[paul_e]

Again, not Dawson, he's a white ball player who has never looked international quality with the red. I would've taken Leach though, and I'd probably have had him in the team for the last couple of years to create time and space for Bashir (also Bethell and Ahmed) to get in the overs at county level and build the experience that is so important before the pressure of international cricket gets added. Having them around the camp here and there when it doesn't disrupt county matches is fine but dragging these youngsters off to carry drinks is killing the tiny chance we have of producing a top quality spinner in English conditions.

[Villan For Life]

I think central contracts are a good idea in principle but pulling the likes of Bethell out of Championship Cricket for a domestic season was pointless and harmed the player. The gap between the test squad and the county game gets wider with every passing season and it that ultimately harms English Cricket as a whole.

[Steve67]

All cricketers should play cricket as often as possible.  This England lot should have played for Villa under Martin O'Neill, so poor has their preparation and training schedule been.  They need to play red ball cricket for their counties in between tests so the selectors can actually have look at their levels, confidence, form etc.  Agree with others about Bazbollocks and Key though, shambles, they have to go.   

How on earth do we know if Bethell is actually any good if the lad rarely plays any cricket? 

[PaulWinch again]

Bethell, you can just tell, is very good. Also the way he talks he obviously gets Test cricket. So it’s not so much is he good enough, it’s more they’ve hindered his pace of development. After that NZ series it was the perfect launch point, instead they essentially mothballed him for a year.

[Beard82]

It all just feels very slap dash.  Lacks attention to detail.  The Stevie G of Ashes, when we need to Unai approach.

Players unable to do the basics of their roles, devoid of any responsibility to do so because a couple of 6s will make up for it.  Openers who cant see off a new ball.  Bowlers who cant hit line and length and so offer no control or pressure.  Spinners and wicket keepers who can bat but not actually bowl or keep.  And then fail with the bat.

And the whole time - Australia have shown us how to play aggresive cricket.

Ony Stokes, Root, and Archer look like players who can mix it at this level.  Brooks is clearly an exceptional talent, but needs to be mentored not made vice-captain.  Bethell needs more cricket.  The rest cant really argue if they never play another test for one reason or another. 

The frustrating thing is - I genuinely think there were onto something, if it had evolved after the 2023 ashes.

That said, win from here and they're all world class

[Gareth]

Crawley :-) the wooden thing in your hand would have been handy.

Will Aus bat again this series?

[tomd2103]

Australia have been without most of their better bowlers too.

Mind you, their back ups have the luxury of bowling to our batsmen.

Key and McCullum surely have to go.

The close proximity of the T20 World Cup will probably mean there won't be any immediate changes.  I think the sheer amount of cricket England play across the different formats makes it very difficult for one person to coach both the red and white ball teams.  For example there will only have been a few weeks gap from a white ball series in New Zealand to the Ashes and then from the Ashes to a white ball series in Sri Lanka and a T20 World Cup.  How an earth can a coach prepare properly for those different series?

[Richard]

Well done Jacob Bethell!!

[Skipper_The_Eyechild]

Run out was laughable. Nice way to kill momentum.

[Proposition Joe]

And Stokes gone too. England remind me of the old song Mr Wendal: here, have a wicket; in fact nah, brother man, here, have two.