The International Cricket Thread

[tomd2103]

I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.

Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.

Not sure Rory.  I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room.  Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.

It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records. 

I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit.  Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes. 

[Rory]

I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.

Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.

Not sure Rory.  I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room.  Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.

It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records. 

I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit.  Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes.

I was speaking in terms of performance and on the basis that my character judgments of the players was purely speculation. But I have long had similar suspicions about their influence behind the scenes.

KP is and was a self-important cock, but I found his descriptions of the dressing room at the time very plausible. They'd had trouble with him previously, there was no guarantee he wouldn't dump England in public in favour of the IPL and other franchise cricket, so it was expedient for the ECB that he was identified as the problem and removed.

From 2012 onwards, Jimmy & Broad have been two of, if not the, senior players in the squad. For all the ridicule and horrific moments, look at the opposition our late 90s/early 00s teams faced. Australia being the most notable example. Look at that Australia vintage, and compare them to the Aussie sides England have faced on the last three tours.

That much-maligned England generation did not embarrass themselves in the way three touring parties featuring Anderson & Broad as senior bowlers have done.

I've never liked Broad who strikes me as a big time Charlie; and Jimmy, in spite of his performances, has been implicated in a number of drink-related disciplinary incidents, including having a drink poured over him by one of his own teammates in 2017, and on the recent tour, at age 39.

IF that is the case, the problem is - and maybe this was why a pliable yes man like Silverwood was picked - that if we are struggling to take wickets in May/June/September at Lord's or Trent Bridge, questions will be asked about why Anderson & Broad are not playing.

It would invite a lot of scrutiny over selection, pressure on the head coach, and it will take a big personality to drop the two highest wicket-takers in the history of English test cricket on the basis of something fans aren't privy to - like their influence on the dressing room.

[Rory]

(Sorry for the length of that post)

[tomd2103]

(Sorry for the length of that post)

It was a good read Rory!  I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.

I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records.  There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages.  Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.

They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on.  If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.

[Rory]

(Sorry for the length of that post)

It was a good read Rory!  I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.

I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records.  There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages.  Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.

They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on.  If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.

Yeah, I think Cook and Root have both been much too close to Anderson & Broad. I'd never heard that the cautious fields were in order to protect their averages, so that's an interesting take.

You may well be right, Tom, I just think that if it's based on information that is in the public domain, it would be a big call to say on any given day of test cricket in England, that at least one of Broad & Anderson wouldn't be in the top three or four seam bowlers most likely to take wickets.

Whoever our next coach is, they'll need to make some big decisions and have the strength and reputation to convince fans and the media to trust them. The last thing we need is another Peter Moores type, under pressure from the beginning.

[olaftab]

I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.

Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.

Not sure Rory.  I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room.  Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.

It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records. 

I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit.  Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes.

I was speaking in terms of performance and on the basis that my character judgments of the players was purely speculation. But I have long had similar suspicions about their influence behind the scenes.

KP is and was a self-important cock, but I found his descriptions of the dressing room at the time very plausible. They'd had trouble with him previously, there was no guarantee he wouldn't dump England in public in favour of the IPL and other franchise cricket, so it was expedient for the ECB that he was identified as the problem and removed.

From 2012 onwards, Jimmy & Broad have been two of, if not the, senior players in the squad. For all the ridicule and horrific moments, look at the opposition our late 90s/early 00s teams faced. Australia being the most notable example. Look at that Australia vintage, and compare them to the Aussie sides England have faced on the last three tours.

That much-maligned England generation did not embarrass themselves in the way three touring parties featuring Anderson & Broad as senior bowlers have done.

I've never liked Broad who strikes me as a big time Charlie; and Jimmy, in spite of his performances, has been implicated in a number of drink-related disciplinary incidents, including having a drink poured over him by one of his own teammates in 2017, and on the recent tour, at age 39.

IF that is the case, the problem is - and maybe this was why a pliable yes man like Silverwood was picked - that if we are struggling to take wickets in May/June/September at Lord's or Trent Bridge, questions will be asked about why Anderson & Broad are not playing.

It would invite a lot of scrutiny over selection, pressure on the head coach, and it will take a big personality to drop the two highest wicket-takers in the history of English test cricket on the basis of something fans aren't privy to - like their influence on the dressing room.

Rory can you elaborate on this?
And I think you are bang on except for the matter under discussion. That being Broad and Anderson, they need to be "retired" forthwith. 

[Rory]

Haha, sure thing Aftab, give me a couple of weeks and I'll get back to you!

You may well get your wish. I can understand wanting the team to move on, just so long as it's for the good of the team and not just symbolic.

[tomd2103]

(Sorry for the length of that post)

It was a good read Rory!  I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.

I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records.  There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages.  Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.

They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on.  If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.

Yeah, I think Cook and Root have both been much too close to Anderson & Broad. I'd never heard that the cautious fields were in order to protect their averages, so that's an interesting take.

You may well be right, Tom, I just think that if it's based on information that is in the public domain, it would be a big call to say on any given day of test cricket in England, that at least one of Broad & Anderson wouldn't be in the top three or four seam bowlers most likely to take wickets.

Whoever our next coach is, they'll need to make some big decisions and have the strength and reputation to convince fans and the media to trust them. The last thing we need is another Peter Moores type, under pressure from the beginning.

You never hear the English commentators mentioning it, but I have heard a few Aussies and I seem to remember Shaun Pollock questioning why both of them had an extra cover in place and not have an extra fielder in a more attacking position.  I've heard people over the years talking about them looking to protect their averages.

[paul_e]

I think that is unfair, reducing scoring opportunities helps build pressure.

[LeeB]

It's the right call to move on, we've no idea of the capability of the other younger bowlers as it stands, though it's concerning that at 39 Anderson was far more physically durable than Robinson, who should have part of his contract witheld for for being fit enough to do his job.

[UK Redsox]

England squad for the women's World Cup in NZ

England's World Cup squad: Heather Knight (captain), Nat Sciver (vice-captain), Tammy Beaumont, Katherine Brunt, Freya Davies, Charlie Dean, Sophia Dunkley, Kate Cross, Sophie Ecclestone, Tash Farrant, Amy Jones (wicketkeeper), Emma Lamb, Anya Shrubsole, Lauren Winfield-Hill, Danni Wyatt

Travelling reserves: Lauren Bell, Mady Villiers


DOC Jonathan Finch ....""The England Women's A series that ran alongside the Ashes enabled a wider group of players to compete for a place in the squad which has made for some tough calls on selection."

All very well saying that, but they then basically picked the same players as usual

[Steve67]

I see that Stuart Broad has been talking to the press about being dropped for the forthcoming tour of the Windies.  I think he comes across as a self-important princess.  Having said that, he is our second highest wicket taker in test history, but it is right to move on?  Was always going to happen one day and after the disaster of the Ashes I wonder if Andrew Strauss just doesn't see it in Broad any more?

[olaftab]

It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers  heading towards 40 even if they have been superb  in the past.

[tomd2103]

I think that is unfair, reducing scoring opportunities helps build pressure.

I can see that Paul, but others might argue that the opening hour or so of a test match is about trying to get wickets and by leaving extra cover open, you might entice a batter to drive and nick off.

Comes down to the philosophy of the captain I suppose and as someone who has captained (at a much lower level cricket it has to be said!!) how to approach the start of your innings in the field is something I have wrestled with. 

[Risso]

It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers  heading towards 40 even if they have been superb  in the past.

That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.