Dean Smith - Confirmed

[paul_e]

Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

[paul_e]

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.

[john e]

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.

Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on

[Risso]

Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

Well here's the table with everybody having played 24 games:

[sickbeggar]

I'm pretty happy with where we are at this point. I'm never totally sure what people were expecting really. Smith's record is

Promotion
17th
11th currently

That doesn't tell the whole story obviously because he made some real managerial clangers last season but its satisfactory overall for me anyway.  I'd also say his win record compares favourably to any manager we've had since MON, and there's plenty still pining for him...…..

[Dr Butler]

I'm pretty happy with where we are at this point. I'm never totally sure what people were expecting really. Smith's record is

Promotion
17th
11th currently

That doesn't tell the whole story obviously because he made some real managerial clangers last season but its satisfactory overall for me anyway.  I'd also say his win record compares favourably to any manager we've had since MON, and there's plenty still pining for him...…..

and a cup final...

UTV
The Doc

[chrisw1]

We have improved on last season
But last season was rubbish we were poor for most of it
I’ve never seen last season as a big achievement for Dean I thought we were clinging on for dear life when we should’ve been further up the table anyway

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

Why don’t we start looking positively and believe in what we can do rather than what we can’t do
Why don’t we start posting stuff about Where we want to be and not why we can’t get there

Someone says that be Bielsa has done a better job in his first season in the prem and there’s A bunch load of people telling us why he has and why Dean couldn’t
I don’t give a fuck I’m not interested in excuses
I’m just interested in us being where we should be with the outlay the squad and the set up
And right now it’s not good enough

We should’ve been out of the championship first time of asking But we employ useless managers until Dean came
We were the Man City of that league without the competition of Chelsea Man United Liverpool etc
We literally should’ve pissed it

Last season we were big spenders I know we renewed the squad but we aren’t Sheffield United Fulham West Brom, bournemouth Norwich or Watford yet we played like them and acted like them

We’ve got to start being more positive about the future and not making excuses for the failings of the past
And for me last season was a failing, And the second half of this season has been to

Let’s not use underperforming as the new standard to improve on
we need higher standards than that

The 'improvement' also came after we had chucked another £100m at the squad.  I'd have been a bit dissapointed if we hadn't improved tbf.

[dave.woodhall]

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.

Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on

Yes, let's ignore everything that doesn't fit in with your narrative.

[paul_e]

Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

Well here's the table with everybody having played 24 games:

Wonderful but I said pretty clearly what table I was looking at and addressed the difference in games played so you just seem to be disagreeing to make things look worse than I said. Given the extra game was against Man City who've battered everyone in the period I didn't think it made much difference.

[Smithy]

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.

Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on

Well, in the last 20 years, the only play-off winners who haven't found themselves relegated again (either immediately or within a couple of seasons) are ourselves, Palace and West Ham.  And we're already above Palace.  So you could argue that in the last 20 years there is only one play-off winner who has done better than us, and that's West Ham. 

For context, West Ham are now in their 9th season back in the top flight, and qualified for Europe 4 years after winning the play-offs, so if we were to qualify for Europe next season, we'd become the most successful play-off winners this century.

All that said, I'd MUCH rather we were still fighting it out for Europe, as our pre-Xmas form indicated we would - but I'm also realistic enough to realise we are a work in progress and have been missing our captain and best player for a third of the season.  Finishing 'Top of the bottom half' is obviously a disappointing way to end to the season, but it's by no means a disaster.

[LeeB]

It looks like some are disappointed that Dean hasn't overperformed. We're all impatient for success, but sometimes that in itself leads to mistakes.
I'm disappointed we haven't won much since Christmas, but we are absolutely going in the right direction. When we're not, then it's time to act.

[Gareth]

Not read much since the Palace game as was really peeved with that 2nd half!

Dean for me has way too much credit in the bank to be under pressure for his job at the moment but if as we expect we spend a few quid in the summer and the start isn’t good it will obv ratchet up.

My two concerns are probably the same as everyone else’s, the absolute insistence on 433 all the time & the lack of any tactical substitutions until 70+ minutes.  The subs one is maybe explained by a lack of quality sat there to change games and that takes a number of transfer windows to rectify from the position we started in after promotion.

The 433 one is frustrating, anyone watching that game could see that Eze was roaming free and hurting us badly but rather than get an extra body in midfield ie Nakamba to shut him down we persevered with two wingers (who are both very poor defensively) and paid the price.

This is a massive summer ahead, increase the quality in the squad, raise the expectation to achieve!

[chrisw1]

Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

Last 6 mathes - 18th
Last 10 matches - 18th
Last 12 matches - 18th
Last 15 matches - 17th
Last 20 matches - 14th
Last 23 matches - 15th

Whichever way you want to portray this its bloody dismal.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:premier-league/form/matches:20/type:home-and-away/

https://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england

[Drummond]

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.

Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on

Good idea.

Since 1996, ie 25 years, On 10 occasions clubs have managed to stay up the season after winning the play-offs.

96 Leicester Top Half
00 Ipswich Top 5
01 Bolton 16th
02 Birmingham 13th
05 West Ham 9th
08 Hull 17th
11 Swansea 11th
12 West Ham 13th
13 Crystal Palace 11th
17 Huddersfield 16th

6 of them are currently out of the division having been relegated again normally the season after. West Ham did it twice which leaves Palace who have hovered between 10th and 15th since they came back up and Leicester, who went down again before coming back and winning the thing.

Leicester's achievements have really been something else. It's a model that many clubs should aspire to isn't it? When they came back up (after winning the Championship) they finished 14th, then won it, dropped back to 12 and have then had 3 top half finishes in a row. 9th,9th,5th and the lowest of probably 5th this season.

We all want success, we all feel like we belong in the top echelons of the game, the thing is, barring Leicester, it just doesn't happen. We're making steady progress, there's not a person among us who wouldn't like to win the league, but realise that it generally just doesn't happen overnight.

It's taken Man City years from when they first started spending big to cement a place at the top, it took Chelsea a while too.

I believe we're heading in the right direction with the right model.

[john e]

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.

Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on

Yes, let's ignore everything that doesn't fit in with your narrative.

It is my narrative I hold my hands up
For years you me and others complained about Doig running Villa like the Cornershop never realising the potential never realising what could be achieved

Well it’s the same on here with a lot of people everyone telling us what we can’t do And why we can’t do it
making excuses of why we haven’t
And then trying to pretend that’s scraping out of relegation by a single point not even winning our last game but relying on others to bail us out was in fact some great season

It wasn’t it was Cornershop mentality