Dean Smith - Confirmed

[Risso]

It looks like some are disappointed that Dean hasn't overperformed. We're all impatient for success, but sometimes that in itself leads to mistakes.
I'm disappointed we haven't won much since Christmas, but we are absolutely going in the right direction. When we're not, then it's time to act.

Smith said he wanted to finish top half, we're not going to.

He said we always finish the season strongly, well not this time we're not.

He also said it was important for a strong end to the season to take some momentum into next season, and doesn't look like that's going to happen either. 

Over the last 20 or so games we've got the same amount of points as Steve Bruce and Newcastle.

[Smithy]

If we had started the season with Jack unfit and out of the side, and our first half of the season had been like our second, but then Jack had come back and our second half had been like our first, I guarantee we'd all be feeling much more positive about the future.

The reality is we've not been anywhere near as good in the second half of the season. Jack's injury has played a part.  The form of the players who WERE fit has played a part. The manager and the coaching staff have played a part.  BUT - I don't see how anyone can call the season anything other than progress given we'll have gone from 17th to 11th?

Is the progress slower than we'd like? Sure. Would we all prefer to be challenging for Europe places this late in the season? Definitely.  But it's STILL progress.

If we start next season the way we've ended this one, then yes, Dean will be under immense pressure, but I'm still confident with a couple of decent additions our fit first 11 will give anyone a good game and we'll be in the mix for European places.

The moment we have plateaued without becoming title challengers, or worse, have gone backwards, THEN it will be the time to look elsewhere.  But we're not there yet, and we never be.

[paul_e]

A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

but all the statistics started with you incorrectly claiming 4 wins in 24 games which wasn't true, I just pointed out that you were wrong. You've then thrown a bit of strop and changed your criteria so you can carry on moaning about things being shit.

Everyone knows the second half of the season has been disappointing but we all know, deep down, that 9-12 was about where we hoped/expected to finish this year and that's what will happen. So what if the wins that got us there came early in the season they don't mean any less. I think it's pretty obvious that our early season form was based around a core of 12-13 players who were on top of their game and has been disrupted by injuries and lack of form in that group. This summer will almost certainly mean that group grows to 16-17 players and form/injury problems for 2-3 of them at once will be easier to absorb.

I haven't thrown a strop - so fuck off with that comment.  I said a while back I'd counted incorrectly - not that it really changes the picture.   You and Risso were discusing form tables I just thought I'd highlight the actual stats rather than skewed tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  People can draw their own conclusions on whether the form is a problem or not, but to be honest over the last 10-15 games it's even worse than I'd realised.

Touchy as ever. As I said, you made a claim which was highly inaccurate, I corrected it so you decided to throw out a load more numbers that I can't be bothered to check rather than accept that you were wrong in the first place.

[RamboandBruno]

But John, it’s not being negative to suggest we have improved over the last couple of years and will keep on improving. I also don’t think it’s particularly positive to say we should of been out of the championship first time, based on what exactly, the 6 years previous to that of mid management when we’d been circling the drain, the assessment that we should of been promoted at first time of asking is based on the name of Aston Villa and nothing more as far as I can see.
We got promoted with (and all due to respect to them) a team and squad filled out with journeymen past their journeymen best, Hutton, Whealen, Jedinak, Elphick, Adonai, Hourihane to a much lesser extent and loanees in Abraham and Tuanzebe. I had us optimistically finishing about 15th knowing nothing about a lot of the players we bought in the summer of 2019.
It’s not negative to be positive about Smith and what he’s done to date, it’s not negative to say despite the disappointing fizzling out in 2021, we are in a much better place than we have been probably since 2009 at least.
I’m sure we all want massive success now, right this minute, but who does life work like that for. Even Man City with their oil money didn’t start winning leagues or even trophies in the first year or two.
If things go pear shaped next season or there is no progression, I would get the annoyance and frustration but not at the moment, that’s just me personally.

It's just took me far too long to translate that to Adomah than I'm happy with.

Predictive text grrrr, I’ve modified it

[paul_e]

It looks like some are disappointed that Dean hasn't overperformed. We're all impatient for success, but sometimes that in itself leads to mistakes.
I'm disappointed we haven't won much since Christmas, but we are absolutely going in the right direction. When we're not, then it's time to act.

Smith said he wanted to finish top half, we're not going to.

He said we always finish the season strongly, well not this time we're not.

He also said it was important for a strong end to the season to take some momentum into next season, and doesn't look like that's going to happen either. 

Over the last 20 or so games we've got the same amount of points as Steve Bruce and Newcastle.

Steve Bruce who got manager of the month for April?

Again the 2nd half of the season has been disappointing, everyone knows that but over the course of the season there's a hell of a lot more positives than negatives is all people are saying. If, as you're suggesting, the season in the last few months carries into next season then Smith will be sacked, everyone knows that, but given the stories coming out regarding the summer so far I don't think it's reasonable to assume that will happen so lets wait and see.

Smith needs to improve to get where we want to be that's clear but in his time with us he has shown he has the ability to step up and improve every year, as has the squad so for many people he's earned the trust to 'go again'.

[chrisw1]

A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

but all the statistics started with you incorrectly claiming 4 wins in 24 games which wasn't true, I just pointed out that you were wrong. You've then thrown a bit of strop and changed your criteria so you can carry on moaning about things being shit.

Everyone knows the second half of the season has been disappointing but we all know, deep down, that 9-12 was about where we hoped/expected to finish this year and that's what will happen. So what if the wins that got us there came early in the season they don't mean any less. I think it's pretty obvious that our early season form was based around a core of 12-13 players who were on top of their game and has been disrupted by injuries and lack of form in that group. This summer will almost certainly mean that group grows to 16-17 players and form/injury problems for 2-3 of them at once will be easier to absorb.

I haven't thrown a strop - so fuck off with that comment.  I said a while back I'd counted incorrectly - not that it really changes the picture.   You and Risso were discusing form tables I just thought I'd highlight the actual stats rather than skewed tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  People can draw their own conclusions on whether the form is a problem or not, but to be honest over the last 10-15 games it's even worse than I'd realised.

Touchy as ever. As I said, you made a claim which was highly inaccurate, I corrected it so you decided to throw out a load more numbers that I can't be bothered to check rather than accept that you were wrong in the first place.

I had already ammended it to 26 wins in 24 mathes including the cup game before you came in on your white charger.
I hadn't responded to your post at all so I'm not sure where the 'strop' claim came from, it was unnecessary but true to form for you.
As you and Risso couldn't agree on the best table I gave you facts over specific numbers of games, not tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  I even gave you the links to check. Go on just think of the joy you'll have if you find an error in the website algorithm.

[Mister E]

All we need now is Footy coming in and declaring "In Dean we trust!"

[paul_e]

I had already ammended it to 26 wins in 24 mathes including the cup game before you came in on your white charger.
I hadn't responded to your post at all so I'm not sure where the 'strop' claim came from, it was unnecessary but true to form for you.
As you and Risso couldn't agree on the best table I gave you facts over specific numbers of games, not tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  I even gave you the links to check. Go on just think of the joy you'll have if you find an error in the website algorithm.

You included a cup game where our under 18s played a full strength Liverpool team, not only does that have nothing to do with our league form it was kids who gave a fantastic account of themselves. 7 in 24 in the league is a fact.

Me and Risso weren't debating anything, I did a very basic lookup of a table since Christmas and made it clear that's what I'd posted and he called it wrong, which it wasn't.

Oh and you definitely did reply to me with a list of form tables in reply which was you shifting the goalposts.

Again though, we've never been in any danger of being drawn into the relegation battle because even our poor form hasn't been poor enough to to undo the good results early on. We're a young side who many were predicting to go down before the season started and we quickly proved that very wrong. It's a shame we couldn't maintain that form but there are a number of reasons for it and a lot of those can be addressed this summer and we can go into next season with real hope of playing at our best but being in a better place to maintain it. That matters much more to me than our form table in a period where we've played a bunch of games that we never do well in

[SoccerHQ]

Heard Dean on the radio earlier.

Said there's no reason to downplay expectations for next season and we want to be finishing well in the top half.

Felt injuries to key players had disrupted us at key point this season which is why we've dropped out of top half.

Accepted we'd struggled to work out how to adapt to no Grealish for first 5-6 games of his injury. Said we'd been better in recent weeks and I agreed with him (although he used the expected goals metric....)

I think when the manager of the club is really bigging up next season then don't think people on here should get criticised too much for wanting 8th or 7th as that will be club target for next year by all accounts.

[Risso]

Heard Dean on the radio earlier.

Said there's no reason to downplay expectations for next season and we want to be finishing well in the top half.

Felt injuries to key players had disrupted us at key point this season which is why we've dropped out of top half.

Accepted we'd struggled to work out how to adapt to no Grealish for first 5-6 games of his injury. Said we'd been better in recent weeks and I agreed with him (although he used the expected goals metric....)

I think when the manager of the club is really bigging up next season then don't think people on here should get criticised too much for wanting 8th or 7th as that will be club target for next year by all accounts.

First 5 games after Jack's injury - 5 points
Next 9 games, inluding Jack being back for 2 of them as sub - 8 points

The bloke's an idiot.

[Monty]

Blimey, bit harsh. He might be talking out of his arse, or he might argue we played better and were less lucky (with harder fixtures). Either way, not sure 'idiot' need cover it.

[Risso]

Better in recent weeks though, we've been absolute toilet. 2 wins in 12 games, 1 in 7.  Bruce was rightly called out for spouting similar nonsense, don't see why Smith should get a pass when he does the same.

[Monty]

Better in recent weeks though, we've been absolute toilet. 2 wins in 12 games, 1 in 7.  Bruce was rightly called out for spouting similar nonsense, don't see why Smith should get a pass when he does the same.

Sure, I favour the talking-from-arse interpretation. Doesn't necessarily make him an idiot though.

[paul_e]

but as the post says he's saying based on performance metrics rather than results. Trusting the analysis doesn't make him an idiot, it just means that he's seeing things from a different perspective.

[RamboandBruno]

Heard Dean on the radio earlier.

Said there's no reason to downplay expectations for next season and we want to be finishing well in the top half.

Felt injuries to key players had disrupted us at key point this season which is why we've dropped out of top half.

Accepted we'd struggled to work out how to adapt to no Grealish for first 5-6 games of his injury. Said we'd been better in recent weeks and I agreed with him (although he used the expected goals metric....)

I think when the manager of the club is really bigging up next season then don't think people on here should get criticised too much for wanting 8th or 7th as that will be club target for next year by all accounts.

First 5 games after Jack's injury - 5 points
Next 9 games, inluding Jack being back for 2 of them as sub - 8 points

The bloke's an idiot.

Very harsh. The teams we played immediately after jacks injury were more beatable on paper at least than those recently. The performances largely have been better in the last few weeks that say sheff Utd and Newcastle away, if not the results.