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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1523011 times)

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12060 on: April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM »
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12061 on: April 11, 2021, 12:52:09 PM »
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

People seem obsessed with Leeds doing well, but so what. Good luck to them.

You could equally concentrate on Arsenal who the last time we were up were a CL side and had won 3 consecutive FA Cups. Now they're below us and having to borrow money from the Bank of England. Even clubs like Southampton have been consistently above us for getting on for a decade. There's lots of ebb and flow and we are on a very clear trajectory.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12062 on: April 11, 2021, 12:52:19 PM »
A lot of the moaning about Smith is the repetitively piss poor game management. Yesterday was another glaring example.
We had a reputation prior to lockdown of giving away points from winning positions and we are now leading that table again.
If that is not the manager’s responsibility what is ?

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12063 on: April 11, 2021, 12:55:54 PM »
But it wasn't game management at all. They scored because of an excellent finish and some unhurried closing from Ramsey,  in what was an isolated attack that actually brought about a rare save moments prior. Liverpool didn't look like or threaten to score at any point after their equaliser. We hadn't dropped deep, we'd just cocked up an attack ourselves 30 seconds to a minute before.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 12:57:55 PM by Ads »

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12064 on: April 11, 2021, 12:57:57 PM »
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

I don't think we're going to finish top half.  Maybe we will though, but we haven't yet, so to be comparing it to anybody else is a bit previous.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12065 on: April 11, 2021, 12:58:37 PM »
I said a long time ago we are where we are more because of Grealish than Smith
I still feel that way and I accept others will disagree

That’s not to say Smith hasn’t done anything of Course he has
The defence for a start is much improved

The problem I have is when Grealish is not in the team our form is that of a bottom six side
We go from looking like a top eight side to a team skirting with relegation form
But our squad is much better than that we spent £250 million on players
our form shouldn’t dip so low and that has to be a question for Smith

Personally I don’t think Dean would even be with us anymore if it wasn’t for Grealish our form just isn’t good enough without Jack for him to have kept his job

I also accept the view that taking any top player out of a side will affect them
The problem we have is how much it affects us
We shouldn’t become Fulham or Newcastle Just because we’ve lost our top player
The playing squad is far better than those in the bottom six so why without Jack Grealish do we become one of them
And I’m afraid the finger points at Dean Smith

But I’m not calling for his head
But if you ask me is Smith good enough to take us to the top six my answer would have to be no
and at some point he will have to be changed if we are to progress to that level

The biggest worry is when we were last looking at other managers rumour has it that we were thinking about Sean Dyce  and big Sam
they wouldn’t give us any more chance of top six then Dean Smith so we have to be careful what we wish for as others have said

However if you offered me a change right now for Nagelsmann I would snap your hand off
Look at the Bielsa he’s in a different league sticks by his attacking football Principles top half of the league above us with no Grealish or anywhere near the amount of money
All in his first year
Imagine what he would’ve done with us with the all the money and Jack Grealish
We would have been self combusting in the streets with excitement

Don’t forget top six is where we Should be aiming for
Second richest club in the premiership, and owners with big plans and ambitions
After all the investment and improvement year-on-year under Dean we still need to be better than a one man team which is what we are at the moment









Offline paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12066 on: April 11, 2021, 12:59:09 PM »
A lot of the moaning about Smith is the repetitively piss poor game management. Yesterday was another glaring example.
We had a reputation prior to lockdown of giving away points from winning positions and we are now leading that table again.
If that is not the manager’s responsibility what is ?


We've dropped 8 points from games we were leading this season and before yesterday we had the joint best record in the entire league of converting leads into wins.

The problem is the exact opposite of the one you're trying to claim, what we've been poor at is getting back into games if we concede the first goal.

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12067 on: April 11, 2021, 12:59:22 PM »
Maybe not, but we'll finish with more than 48 points. That won't won't enough for 9th this time round, but things have moved on in a decade and we are only just finding our way back after that.

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12068 on: April 11, 2021, 01:00:45 PM »
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

We seem as reliant on Jack Grealish as we were when we were mid table in the championship, though. The data proves that.

None of the teams around us last season spent anything near what we did so I think top 10 is probably about par with regards to budget and expectations.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12069 on: April 11, 2021, 01:01:03 PM »
But it wasn't game management at all. They scored because of an excellent finish and some unhurried closing from Ramsey,  in what was an isolated attack that actually brought about a rare save moments prior. Liverpool didn't look like or threaten to score at any point after their equaliser. We hadn't dropped deep, we'd just cocked up an attack ourselves 30 seconds to a minute before.
yes playing Ramsey right wing was a great game management.

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12070 on: April 11, 2021, 01:05:07 PM »
But it wasn't game management at all. They scored because of an excellent finish and some unhurried closing from Ramsey,  in what was an isolated attack that actually brought about a rare save moments prior. Liverpool didn't look like or threaten to score at any point after their equaliser. We hadn't dropped deep, we'd just cocked up an attack ourselves 30 seconds to a minute before.
yes playing Ramsey right wing was a great game management.


The goal came centrally from a right back drifting off an inside left position (of the pitch). He wasn't Ramsey's man to mark, so his position is irrelevant. I keep asking, but I cannot fathom how you believe "game management" had anything to do with losing.

Offline SaddVillan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12071 on: April 11, 2021, 01:10:26 PM »
I've been looking at the cost of the various Prem squads to try and gauge whether we've achieved "value for money" in terms of our current league position.

The  figures based on squads in August and  exclude January signings.

City £811m
United £628m
Leicester £317m
Chelsea £577m
L'pool £454m (excl Van Dijk £75m)
West Ham £218m
Spurs £385m
Everton £388m
Leeds £120m
Villa £229m
Arsenal £455m (excl Ozil £42m)
Wolves £242m
Burnley £83m
Palace £150m
Soton £171m
Brighton £159m
Newcastle £198m
Fulham £95m
Baggies £98m
Sheff Utd £122m

11th most expensive squad and  we're in 10th place so far. 
In deciding if we're value for money, it might also be helpful to factor in the relative top division experience of the other managers.

There looks to me to be a fairly straightline correlation:

Money + experience = increased chance of doing well.


Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12072 on: April 11, 2021, 01:12:01 PM »
I've been looking at the cost of the various Prem squads to try and gauge whether we've achieved "value for money" in terms of our current league position.

The  figures based on squads in August and  exclude January signings.

City £811m
United £628m
Leicester £317m
Chelsea £577m
L'pool £454m (excl Van Dijk £75m)
West Ham £218m
Spurs £385m
Everton £388m
Leeds £120m
Villa £229m
Arsenal £455m (excl Ozil £42m)
Wolves £242m
Burnley £83m
Palace £150m
Soton £171m
Brighton £159m
Newcastle £198m
Fulham £95m
Baggies £98m
Sheff Utd £122m

11th most expensive squad and  we're in 10th place so far. 
In deciding if we're value for money, it might also be helpful to factor in the relative top division experience of the other managers.

There looks to me to be a fairly straightline correlation:

Money + experience = increased chance of doing well.



How about also 'what you inherited'?

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12073 on: April 11, 2021, 01:19:40 PM »
How many of those clubs were 13th in the Championship 2 seasons ago?

Offline SaddVillan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12074 on: April 11, 2021, 01:26:30 PM »

Although BIelsa at Leeds seems to be doing better than his squad value, factor in his managerial experience:
2007–2011 Chile
2011–2013 Ath Bilbao
2014–2015 Marseille
2016 Lazio
2017 Lille
2018–Leeds

And that might explain his success.

In Dyche's case, experience makes up for a small budget and with Solskjaer it's the other way round.

Arteta however has no excuse, he spent 3 seasons at City with Guardiola and is in his 2nd year at Arsenal.


Smith has had to learn on the job whilst building a Premier League squad pretty well from scratch.

 


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