Dean Smith - Confirmed

[CT Villan]

I must be getting old, it seems like people these days demand instant gratification and possess no patience when there is a head-wind.

I will admit to being a little concerned when Dean was mooted as Bruce's replacement, due entirely to the magnitude of the step up from Brentford to Villa and not being sure how he would handle the increased expectation. He started well enough, but things are easy when we're winning, the true test comes when things aren't so rosy. It is the difference in performance levels that has surprised me the most, that is, players who were playing so well now are incapable of passing to a team-mate. Where players were moving on and off the ball, they are now static and deep. Jack's absence is the easy excuse, but these things are basics, fundamental to the game and right now they are sadly lacking.

At the same time there needs to be a large dose of perspective applied to the situation and it is clear that the owners are planning long-term which is something we have been dreaming of for years. The fabric of the club will not change overnight, it took years to get in to this state and it will take a few years to get back to something matching our expectations. Whether Dean is the right captain for the good ship Aston Villa will remain to be seen, but he deserves the opportunity to make the changes he (and the club) deem necessary to get us moving forward again.

I don't have a problem with people complaining about Dean, the team and the club in general, they do it out love for all things Villa. But we should all apply a little perspective so that the critique remains relevant and doesn't become background noise that is dismissed out-of-hand or worse triggers purely emotional drama instead of considered, logical debate.

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Leeds signed 1 player in the summer?!

Hanford, Douglas, Davis, Harrison, Baker, Blackman, Brown and 18 incoming all told.

[sickbeggar]

We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.

Bruceball? To what end? We're not going up so lets play football that suits a load of players who won't be here next season? Sounds a plan

[ROBBO]

There are so many things not working at Villa we have wingers who cannot beat a man because they are too slow we have a midfield of one player being played out of position and the other who is close to a pension and a work ethic that is left to one man to supply. No wonder we are failing, when I watch the top sides in the division the one thing they all have in common is work ethic they run themselves into the ground from the start to the end our lot play like they are in the Festival league.

[sickbeggar]

End of the day, of the players in the squad yesterday, 9 won't be here currently either because they're out of contract or not ours and may well get better offers. And lets face it there's probably a couple more who Smith doesn't want but may be stuck with. Changing a system to suit them when they're not going to play any part in how we do next season, seems daft to me.

[hilts_coolerking]

We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.

Bruceball? To what end? We're not going up so lets play football that suits a load of players who won't be here next season? Sounds a plan

Sticking with what we know doesn't work because the manager is only capable of playing one way doesn't strike me as much of a plan either.

[Lastfootstamper]

Tbf, prior to the game at the stripeyfilth, we hadn't been playing that well. By which I mean that the sloppy haphazard stuff we're doing now, we were doing before. Who draws 5-each, ffs? It's misremembering to think we were Brazil '70 reincarnate. We still had rubbish anchoring our midfield, we still had erratic wingers, we still had piss-poor fullbacks. But we had Grealish. And with him, our Dad's Army outfit managed to find the energy in their tired old legs to get around the pitch at speeds they never believed possible, and kept it up for two months.

And now they're fucked, and there's no Grealish.

Smith's tried to address it in the window by getting in younger players, as opposed to plumping for "experience" just to see us through. Good. About time. But there's no way he envisaged Grealish being out for this long. We didn't, and we look at Twitter. To suggest he was going to be out for six weeks was verging on being heretical. And what's it going to be by the time he reappears, ten?

With the available players, we were always going to be fucked without him, I don't care who the manager might be.

[LukeJames]

For every example of a Farke you can give, there's one from the other view point.  Take Leeds and Paul Heckingbottom.  Sacked after 4 months, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his replacement Bielsa is doing slightly better than he managed.

I don’t think Leeds are anywhere near as big a club as the Villa personally, but their fans have high expectations like ours do. They went through people like Heckingbottom, Steve Evans, Brian McDermott etc, but it wasn't until they got somebody who had handled big jobs before, like Bielsa, that they actually looked like doing something. He made two signings that actually play in the summer so it just goes to show this needing your own players thing is complete and utter nonsense if you’re a good coach.

You reckon Bielsa could come into our club now, with the players that we have and sort it out? How's that high intensity 90 minute press going to go with our lot? Coaches/managers need there own players or players that are comfortable within their prefered style.

[SheffieldVillain]

For every example of a Farke you can give, there's one from the other view point.  Take Leeds and Paul Heckingbottom.  Sacked after 4 months, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his replacement Bielsa is doing slightly better than he managed.

Not at all unreasonable.

Mind you, it's taken them 22 managers in the last 20 years (10 managers in the last five years) to find one that succeeded (or probably will succeed at this stage).

[sickbeggar]

We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.

Bruceball? To what end? We're not going up so lets play football that suits a load of players who won't be here next season? Sounds a plan

Sticking with what we know doesn't work because the manager is only capable of playing one way doesn't strike me as much of a plan either.

So sack him and bring a new guy in. Still the same problem. Whatever he gets out of them playing whatever system he chooses they're not going to be here in 5 months. People have to ask what they want really. A slightly less painful 5 months and then change over to Smith's preferred system in the summer ( I mean i'm assuming you think the likes of Grealish, McGinn, chester and co can play his system with decent players around them?). OR stick to his guns now and get the players who are part of his plans, used to it.  Again remember, Hutton, Elphick, mings, Hause, whelan, Tammy, Steer, jedinak, El Ghazi won't be here currently from the squad yesterday. I won't even start on the players we wish weren't going to be here.

[hilts_coolerking]

You reckon Bielsa could come into our club now, with the players that we have and sort it out? How's that high intensity 90 minute press going to go with our lot? Coaches/managers need there own players or players that are comfortable within their prefered style.

True, but equally managers have to prove they are adaptable.  We've had poor managers here in the past who have lacked a plan B.  Smith won't have his preferred squad all the time, in fact he may never have it, so what then?  I want to see more from him to show what he can do when the chips are down.

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There's preferred squad and then there is this.

You cant have it both ways and be with the majority, who I think are correct, that would happily bin 12 or more of this squad tomorrow if they could and then demand he gets more from it. Bruce couldn't, Smith without two of the best elements can't.

That's not to say we should accept poor performances and results, but given who we have in the midfield and who we have out, it's not hugely surprising that poor players are delivering poor football and results.

[hilts_coolerking]

So sack him and bring a new guy in. Still the same problem. Whatever he gets out of them playing whatever system he chooses they're not going to be here in 5 months. People have to ask what they want really. A slightly less painful 5 months and then change over to Smith's preferred system in the summer ( I mean i'm assuming you think the likes of Grealish, McGinn, chester and co can play his system with decent players around them?). OR stick to his guns now and get the players who are part of his plans, used to it.  Again remember, Hutton, Elphick, mings, Hause, whelan, Tammy, Steer, jedinak, El Ghazi won't be here currently from the squad yesterday. I won't even start on the players we wish weren't going to be here.

I don't want him sacked, I want him to be better.  I refuse to believe it is impossible for him to get more out of the players at disposal.  Absolutely not.

Ideally what I'd like to see is a versatile squad of players who can adapt to at least two styles and a manager who can choose the set-up and players depending on who we're facing.  Otherwise we end up with a one-dimensional squad of players who will have to be binned if / when Smith leaves and we can't find a replacement who plays exactly the same way.

My other worry is how long it will take to get a squad he feels he is able to work with.  How many players are we talking about?  Plenty probably, and surely too many to find, buy and integrate in one season.  So two seasons maybe, assuming it's possible at all.  Even if it is, we're not operating in a bubble, other clubs will be improving too.

[LukeJames]

Of all the managers mentioned in this thread recently. Farke, Wagner, Nuno, Jokanovic, Bielsa. Its worth noting that none of them came in during mid-season to immediate success.
Bielsa and Nuno, who are the two with immediate 'success' came in during the summer.
I'd be surprised if there are many examples of managers coming in mid season and having anything more than a new manager bounce.

[Mister E]

I don’t think Leeds are anywhere near as big a club as the Villa personally, but their fans have high expectations like ours do. They went through people like Heckingbottom, Steve Evans, Brian McDermott etc, but it wasn't until they got somebody who had handled big jobs before, like Bielsa, that they actually looked like doing something. He made two signings that actually play in the summer so it just goes to show this needing your own players thing is complete and utter nonsense if you’re a good coach. And he went in and they were excellent and haven’t had a massive slump. Certainly not a 14 game one

Newcastle had Benitez, another club with big expectations. Somebody like Brendan Rodgers might have handled the pressure having managed Liverpool and Celtic, but Dean Smith will likely be our equivalent to Heckingbottom and McDermott. As much maligned as the players are, most of them have still played at a very high level and will know an awful lot about football. Things like the triple substitution at Wigan and never changing tactics will have quite a few of them thinking what on earth are you doing? Dean Smith doesn’t have a particularly high standing in the game, and isn’t a young up and coming manager, so he probably can’t get away with as much as a Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard can for example. At least Bruce had 4 promotions with smaller clubs so there was a bit of historical success, whereas Smith has nothing to fall back on. Managers like Smith, Heckingbottom, Evans, McDermott won’t work at clubs like the Villa and Leeds but will at clubs like Brentford, Rotherham, Reading etc

Okay - so this is a well-argued post, Ketzster.
Thank you.

As is this:

I must be getting old, it seems like people these days demand instant gratification and possess no patience when there is a head-wind.

I will admit to being a little concerned when Dean was mooted as Bruce's replacement, due entirely to the magnitude of the step up from Brentford to Villa ... there needs to be a large dose of perspective applied to the situation and it is clear that the owners are planning long-term which is something we have been dreaming of for years. The fabric of the club will not change overnight, it took years to get in to this state and it will take a few years to get back to something matching our expectations. Whether Dean is the right captain for the good ship Aston Villa will remain to be seen, but he deserves the opportunity to make the changes he (and the club) deem necessary to get us moving forward again ... we should all apply a little perspective so that the critique remains relevant and doesn't become background noise that is dismissed out-of-hand or worse triggers purely emotional drama instead of considered, logical debate.