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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 803877 times)

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9540 on: July 15, 2020, 10:47:04 PM »
Because it's that easy, which is why everyone does it. Except they don't.

No idea what you mean

Under DS Brentford were a middling champs team who never looked like getting to the play offs or getting relegated. They just seemed to play well against us. DS Leaves and within 2 years they are certainly in the play offs and may go up automatically. Pray they do at the expense of the baggies

The one above that. Clubs who get rid of a manager who's done a decent job on the basis that there's a better one around somewhere.

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9541 on: July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 PM »
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9542 on: July 15, 2020, 11:51:07 PM »
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Exactly. I think we've tried to do the same, but in the usual half-arsed way.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9543 on: July 16, 2020, 08:33:17 AM »
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Moneyball has worked so much better for other clubs than it ever has for us

Offline Ian.

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9544 on: July 16, 2020, 08:36:40 AM »
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because heís a Villa fan and a ďnice blokeĒ but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasnít continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I canít see it though. Can you see where heís improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge

I think we ought to get them whether Smith's here or not.
Well I would say these things may take time to develop, build the infrastructure and have the right people in place. I really hope itís not just an experiment in that we ditch if Smith is pushed.

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9545 on: July 16, 2020, 08:47:57 AM »
Does sabremetrics really translate into football?

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9546 on: July 16, 2020, 09:02:19 AM »
let's just buy Brentford and re brand it as  New Aston Villa?

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9547 on: July 16, 2020, 09:13:10 AM »
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly where they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.

Joe Linton was on the way even before Bruce took the reigns I thought? Dreadful player. Bruce has done well there, kept them up with something to spare. A very average squad.

Offline The Edge

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9548 on: July 16, 2020, 09:48:35 AM »
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because heís a Villa fan and a ďnice blokeĒ but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasnít continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I canít see it though. Can you see where heís improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge

You have no way of knowing that.

Of course I donít know. However Iíve seen enough turgid and clueless displays this season to know DS isnít the solution. Itís been an awful season  Where has been the progress in any section of the team. Yes we got to a cup final beating Liverpool and Wolves reserves along the way and were outplayed at Wembley  If we do stay up we need to aim higher  Be ruthless and get a better manager from a position of relative strength. Donít settle for second best
I wouldn't say we were outplayed at Wembley though. We played well that day and could of easily won. Couple of dodgy decisions went against us and we hit the post late on.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 09:51:39 AM by The Edge »

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9549 on: July 16, 2020, 09:58:39 AM »
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Moneyball has worked so much better for other clubs than it ever has for us
I would have thought one of the reasons is you need to do it from a position of stability - drip feed new players into an established squad and let them settle and develop at their own pace.  It's just bloody madness to expect to be able to do it when you are replacing half the first team.

Offline SamTheMouse

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9550 on: July 16, 2020, 10:55:57 AM »
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because heís a Villa fan and a ďnice blokeĒ but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasnít continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I canít see it though. Can you see where heís improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

I have misgivings about Smith, but I think I agree with this.

Maybe it's time to give someone a real chance to build a side organically, instead of expecting to buy success off the peg. He's still a relatively young manager and this has been his first season in the top division. I think there's is still potential for improvement. That applies to most of our players too.

Obviously there's no guarantee it would work, but if we don't try we'll never know.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9551 on: July 16, 2020, 11:00:24 AM »
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Moneyball has worked so much better for other clubs than it ever has for us
I would have thought one of the reasons is you need to do it from a position of stability - drip feed new players into an established squad and let them settle and develop at their own pace.  It's just bloody madness to expect to be able to do it when you are replacing half the first team.

I think you're probably right there

Offline paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9552 on: July 16, 2020, 11:14:46 AM »
Not just that, if you want to implement a system of bringing through youngsters, selling for a profit and replacing then you have to give it time. The problem we have is that everyone buys into the idea until we lose a few games and then people lose their nerve, fans call for Big Sam to save the season, managers start picking based on experience and owners give the funds to bring through a few older heads and the whole thing falls apart within a year.

If we want a team full of kids who've come through our academy and then been added to with quality young signings then we need to give them time and not write those players off after 10-15 games, not write the manager off after 6months and not start calling the owners and board out as smarmy and bullshitters whenever we get upset.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9553 on: July 16, 2020, 11:18:38 AM »
Right but it's not as simple as buying young players who need time to develop and letting them improve - they won't improve if they're not being coached right, and meanwhile the short-term results won't be as good as they can be if the players aren't deployed in a sensible system with cohesive game plan.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #9554 on: July 16, 2020, 11:37:47 AM »
You need to do it along side a few older heads - at least at first.  It shouldn't be all or nothing.  Whether the time to try to start it is immediately after promotion is also something they should have considered.

 


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