Dean Smith - Confirmed

[mike]

He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.

He's not perfect, he's made mistakes but so far, in two years he's done everything that's been asked of him. I could equally turn it round and ask why it is that some people are so quick to jump on anything he does wrong, but say all his successes are down to other factors.

So what about tactics etc. It's not a trick question, I value your opinion but other than your articles it tends to come in bite sized chunks!

As I said before, questions over his tactics, selections and signings are all irrelevant in the long run. Two years today we were fucked. Since then we've got promoted, played in a cup final without getting battered and we've got potentially world-class players in the team. That'll do for me.

I don't think those things are irrelevant if we want sustained success under Dean. Last season was a clusterfuck with having to recruit virtually a whole new team within FFP and then having injury problems to key players. This season, we have a better squad and a year's experience in the league for team and manager. I think how well the team performs this season will be down to how Dean and his coaching team get those kind of decisions right.

[Pat Mustard]

To date Dean Smith has arguably achieved more as manager than Graham Taylor has in his first two years. Both got us promoted in season one, but Smith had to do it with two months of the season already gone, starting from 14th in the league and with one fit centre half at his disposal.

In season two both finished one place above relegation, but Smith also got us to a cup final and despite an injury list that basically destroyed the spine of the team by the new year.

When I said this before someone responded that they were looking forward to us finishing second this season. That probably won’t happen, but we’ve already started this season better than we did in 1989-90, so maybe we give him a chance?

[algy]

He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.

He's not perfect, he's made mistakes but so far, in two years he's done everything that's been asked of him. I could equally turn it round and ask why it is that some people are so quick to jump on anything he does wrong, but say all his successes are down to other factors.

So what about tactics etc. It's not a trick question, I value your opinion but other than your articles it tends to come in bite sized chunks!

As I said before, questions over his tactics, selections and signings are all irrelevant in the long run. Two years today we were fucked. Since then we've got promoted, played in a cup final without getting battered and we've got potentially world-class players in the team. That'll do for me.

He's also over-delivered 2 years on the trot. Sounded like we'd planned on promotion from the Championship in his second season - he did it in his first. We then aimed to avoid relegation in his second season - he did that ... and got us to a cup final.

Not sure what people are expecting of the man here, to me he's performing above any reasonable expectations. Might be pushing it a bit far to suggest he's the best manager in the world just yet, but equally if we did have the best manager in the world, what more would anyone have expected them to have achieved at this point?

[brian green]

I have immense respect for those who have built H and V into the source of good judgement, humour and pleasure it is today.  I cannot rid myself of the nagging doubt that Dean Smith is either flawed or not yet fully fledged.  It is indisputable that his managerial qualiies have taken us from the swamp of the lower Championship to at least the foothills of the sunlit uplands of the Premiership.  Seventy percent of me believes he is the man to get us to a staging post from which we can unleash an assault on the peak.  Then, with unfailing regularity we have games like Stoke and the Mr Hyde in me emerges.  I am assailed with doubt that our future will be like our immediate past.  I have never wanted a Villa manager to succeed as much as I want Dean to succeed.  Liverpool is the perfect game to restore our spirits.  Ours and the players.

[WilliamStanding]

Then, with unfailing regularity we have games like Stoke and the Mr Hyde in me emerges. 

Our reserves lost to Stoke.

[themossman]

He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this. There are pro and anti smith camps and in truth he’s given, and continues to give, evidence to both to support their cause.

It’s true he got us promoted, which deserves much credit, also true that having the best player in the division back from injury and winning games on his own played a part. Impossible to separate these factors.

It’s true he kept a poor squad up last year thanks to a great (overall) post lockdown run. It’s also true that he performed badly, overall, IMO, before lockdown, showing a lot of tactical naivety and intransigence, which put us in the position in the first place.

I don’t think reeling out the the end results repeatedly makes the criticisms of how we got there any less valid. Or that criticising him means you don’t want him to succeed.

[RamboandBruno]

He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this!
I found myself looking at this thread for the first time in ages and was surprised then not surprised that to a degree the Smith debate has to a small degree started again.
I will nearly always defend him currently as I think he deserves to be defended for what he’s done in the two years in the job, not going to spell it out as Dave and Ads already done that. I will come back on those who say grealish got us up single handed as just don’t think it’s true.
But none of that really matters in this discussion as some posters kind of deep down have made their mind up and 1-0 defeat to stoke, is all that’s needed.
As an aside i think smith does want a cup run, but he had no choice but to play a whole second string with the number of games coming up, he simply can’t play anything other than a full strength side against Liverpool.

[RamboandBruno]

He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this. There are pro and anti smith camps and in truth he’s given, and continues to give, evidence to both to support their cause.

It’s true he got us promoted, which deserves much credit, also true that having the best player in the division back from injury and winning games on his own played a part. Impossible to separate these factors.

It’s true he kept a poor squad up last year thanks to a great (overall) post lockdown run. It’s also true that he performed badly, overall, IMO, before lockdown, showing a lot of tactical naivety and intransigence, which put us in the position in the first place.

I don’t think reeling out the the end results repeatedly makes the criticisms of how we got there any less valid. Or that criticising him means you don’t want him to succeed.

Not disagreeing with your overall point. But Grealish didn’t win a single game on his own at any point. In the 10 game run to go up he was hugely influential, but wasn’t necessarily the best player in a fair number of those games, including the semi final away leg and final. SGM was just as influential in many of those games.

[LeeB]

He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

He must be very lucky Dave.

I like lucky managers.

[Ads]

The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

[themossman]

Don’t disagree, I almost added ‘and the second best player’, bought by Bruce ;-)

My point, I guess, is that there are a lot of factors at play in individual games and seasons. Plenty of space to disagree about what the factors behind failure or success are.

[Ads]

When you're consistently achieving your goals, perhaps its best to stop looking elsewhere for why.

[themossman]

The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

Bristol city was also a good game and result.

[themossman]

When you're consistently achieving your goals, perhaps its best to stop looking elsewhere for why.

There’s not much left to discuss on football forums then though.

[LeeB]

The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

It was the Forest game away for me, exactly where we’d have dropped points under Bruce after the high of beating the rags on the Sunday before.