Villa vs Birmingham Football Rivalries Show on Sky Sports

[rim gk]

Disappointing but not surprised as 1/2 hour was not long enough, should have been an hour.

The 1983 match was probably the dirtiest match I have ever seen, don't know why the ref bothered to take the ball out onto the pitch, these days there would have been 6 reds, and that's on each side. As for the Enkelmann match still don't think he touched the ball, and I remember at the time we were on top. Legend Melberg's pre match comments didn't help either. If you blinked you missed Cahill's goal and likewise the 5 - 1 humiliation.

Still without doubt as fierce as any derby played in Britain, well England anyway, as both clubs have some of the most passionate fans in the country.

Given its the 2nd city derby it's expected to be fierce. There's only two teams  here, it's also a working class city where people are inherently proud of their working class identity and roots. It's also a violent city heavy crime. This is reflected in the derby.

[cdbearsfan]

Re Enkleman touching the ball or not, his body language is the giveaway because if he knew the laws of the game he would know that if he hadn't touched it the outcome IIRC would be a corner kick.  You cannot score against yourself from a thow-in among other scenarios.

That's the problem. He quite clearly didn't understand the rules. His body language and the fact that a knuckle-dragger was already on the pitch, inches away from the referee, were the crucial factors in the awarding of the goal.

I still think the decision to disallow Darius' equaliser, seemingly on the grounds that he'd been standing in an offside position twenty minutes earlier, was the worst decision of the evening.

[Nev]

Re Enkleman touching the ball or not, his body language is the giveaway because if he knew the laws of the game he would know that if he hadn't touched it the outcome IIRC would be a corner kick.  You cannot score against yourself from a thow-in among other scenarios.

That's the problem. He quite clearly didn't understand the rules. His body language and the fact that a knuckle-dragger was already on the pitch, inches away from the referee, were the crucial factors in the awarding of the goal.

I still think the decision to disallow Darius' equaliser, seemingly on the grounds that he'd been standing in an offside position twenty minutes earlier, was the worst decision of the evening.

I was at the game and the linesman was in the corner where the Kop meets the Tilton, it was like a bear pit, from the players in front and the fans behind as well as the referee getting it, I think he made that decision on the grounds of safety more than anything else. I remember Savage running the length of the Kop winding up the fans when the goal was given. They really liked him in those days.

[Damo70]

Re Enkleman touching the ball or not, his body language is the giveaway because if he knew the laws of the game he would know that if he hadn't touched it the outcome IIRC would be a corner kick.  You cannot score against yourself from a thow-in among other scenarios.

That's the problem. He quite clearly didn't understand the rules. His body language and the fact that a knuckle-dragger was already on the pitch, inches away from the referee, were the crucial factors in the awarding of the goal.

I still think the decision to disallow Darius' equaliser, seemingly on the grounds that he'd been standing in an offside position twenty minutes earlier, was the worst decision of the evening.

I must admit I wasn't aware of the rules in that situation until the debates in the aftermath of the game. If I remember right the ref should have given a corner, although in my opinion if you are daft enough to concede by basically throwing the ball into your own net you deserve a goal to be given against you. The ref (the arrogant public school teacher David Ellerey, who I never liked) admitted afterwards he gave the goal as Enckelman's reaction suggested he knew the rule and knew he had touched it. The truth being that Enckelman hadn't touched it but didn't know the rule and in his ignorance believed it was a goal, hence his reaction. The twat who ran on the pitch lived around the corner from my parents. I had never seen or met him (and never have since) but when he got nicked they printed the road name.

[Damo70]

In the league they were. FA Cup game was Forest. Last time they got 30K for a league game that wasn't against us was 1980.

Sad but true.  I was at the Forest cup game and the Boxing Day game with us.  Can i have my attendance from the Forest game removed by deed poll?

I'm sure on the day they played Forest in the cup I was at Ewood Park watching Platt make his debut. I have no idea how I remember that.

My uncle had a brother who was a steward responsible for the players tunnel (the one in the corner as they have two I think) and the little courtyard behind it near the dressing rooms and players lounge. On Boxing Day 1982 he took his future son in law (who was a bit of a nutter back in the day and still is to an extent) to the game. This resulted in an 'altercation' between the man who is now married to my cousin and Pat Van Den Hauwe. Knowing one of them personally and knowing the other by reputation that confrontation would have been quite tasty I imagine.

[Villa Lew]

Disappointing but not surprised as 1/2 hour was not long enough, should have been an hour.

The 1983 match was probably the dirtiest match I have ever seen, don't know why the ref bothered to take the ball out onto the pitch, these days there would have been 6 reds, and that's on each side. As for the Enkelmann match still don't think he touched the ball, and I remember at the time we were on top. Legend Melberg's pre match comments didn't help either. If you blinked you missed Cahill's goal and likewise the 5 - 1 humiliation.

Still without doubt as fierce as any derby played in Britain, well England anyway, as both clubs have some of the most passionate fans in the country.

Given its the 2nd city derby it's expected to be fierce. There's only two teams  here, it's also a working class city where people are inherently proud of their working class identity and roots. It's also a violent city heavy crime. This is reflected in the derby.

Ok but compare it to the Manchester and Merseyside derbies, where Liverpool and United fans hate each other more than they do their neighbours, so surely the atmosphere for their derbies can't be as great as the 2nd city derby.

[rim gk]

Disappointing but not surprised as 1/2 hour was not long enough, should have been an hour.

The 1983 match was probably the dirtiest match I have ever seen, don't know why the ref bothered to take the ball out onto the pitch, these days there would have been 6 reds, and that's on each side. As for the Enkelmann match still don't think he touched the ball, and I remember at the time we were on top. Legend Melberg's pre match comments didn't help either. If you blinked you missed Cahill's goal and likewise the 5 - 1 humiliation.

Still without doubt as fierce as any derby played in Britain, well England anyway, as both clubs have some of the most passionate fans in the country.

Given its the 2nd city derby it's expected to be fierce. There's only two teams  here, it's also a working class city where people are inherently proud of their working class identity and roots. It's also a violent city heavy crime. This is reflected in the derby.

Ok but compare it to the Manchester and Merseyside derbies, where Liverpool and United fans hate each other more than they do their neighbours, so surely the atmosphere for their derbies can't be as great as the 2nd city derby.

You are also forgetting Man U v Leeds. Manu fans probably hate Leeds more than they hate man city.

[Rudy65]

at least the ashtray they got from Barca is in their trophy cabinet

[dave shelley]

at least the ashtray they got from Barca is in their trophy cabinet

Now THAT was funny.

[rim gk]

Does anyone have memories of villa blues fights in the work place? Alot of this went on between colleagues in the 70s and 80s in factories and warehouses. I worked in the Jewellery quarter in the mid 90s and there was a bloke who worked there many years who said fights would break out in the 80s between blokes who were working alongside each other in the 80s.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Does anyone have memories of villa blues fights in the work place? Alot of this went on between colleagues in the 70s and 80s in factories and warehouses. I worked in the Jewellery quarter in the mid 90s and there was a bloke who worked there many years who said fights would break out in the 80s between blokes who were working alongside each other in the 80s.

Do you have any memories of, you know, football matches, or have you only ever followed football for the crowd violence?

[wittonwarrior]

Disappointing but not surprised as 1/2 hour was not long enough, should have been an hour.

The 1983 match was probably the dirtiest match I have ever seen, don't know why the ref bothered to take the ball out onto the pitch, these days there would have been 6 reds, and that's on each side. As for the Enkelmann match still don't think he touched the ball, and I remember at the time we were on top. Legend Melberg's pre match comments didn't help either. If you blinked you missed Cahill's goal and likewise the 5 - 1 humiliation.

Still without doubt as fierce as any derby played in Britain, well England anyway, as both clubs have some of the most passionate fans in the country.

Given its the 2nd city derby it's expected to be fierce. There's only two teams  here, it's also a working class city where people are inherently proud of their working class identity and roots. It's also a violent city heavy crime. This is reflected in the derby.

Ok but compare it to the Manchester and Merseyside derbies, where Liverpool and United fans hate each other more than they do their neighbours, so surely the atmosphere for their derbies can't be as great as the 2nd city derby.

Everton fans are not a million miles from small heath in terms that they hate Liverpool F.C. more than they love their own club. Pretty much the same with manc city

Let’s hope sh hate us even more by 2 15pm

[Pat McMahon]

[/quote]

My uncle had a brother
[/quote]

Doesn't that make him your uncle too?

[Pat McMahon]

Re Enkleman touching the ball or not, his body language is the giveaway because if he knew the laws of the game he would know that if he hadn't touched it the outcome IIRC would be a corner kick.  You cannot score against yourself from a thow-in among other scenarios.

Correct Dave. I was howling at the the tv in the pub on this point. All those years as a kid reading Paul Trevelion's "You are the ref" columns in Shoot or newspapers had their use!

I met Enckelman's girlfriend around 2008 as she had previously worked for our employer and came along to a bash to see her old mates. We chatted and she said that the management and coaching staff at Villa really gave him no support after that incident and he had a tough time. Apparently Schmeichel was very supportive, sending texts and messages from long distance.

[Risso]

Re Enkleman touching the ball or not, his body language is the giveaway because if he knew the laws of the game he would know that if he hadn't touched it the outcome IIRC would be a corner kick.  You cannot score against yourself from a thow-in among other scenarios.

Correct Dave. I was howling at the the tv in the pub on this point. All those years as a kid reading Paul Trevelion's "You are the ref" columns in Shoot or newspapers had their use!

I met Enckelman's girlfriend around 2008 as she had previously worked for our employer and came along to a bash to see her old mates. We chatted and she said that the management and coaching staff at Villa really gave him no support after that incident and he had a tough time. Apparently Schmeichel was very supportive, sending texts and messages from long distance.

To be fair to Encks, it wasn't his job to know the in depth laws of the game, it was the ref's, and he got it wrong.