John Terry - Gone

[Brend'Watkins]

AVFC are no longer a serious football club having signed this arsehole. After over fifty years of supporting the Villa I now feel like giving up.

We've not been a serious football club for a while.

As for the "I'm not supporting Villa any more" lot, they remind me of the "I'm leaving Twitter/H&V" dolts. Really, you can just go. You don't need to announce it and flounce off to the sound of trumpets in a puff of smoke. The truth is nobody will miss you, whatever your reasons are for bailing.

Exactly.  We have it every year, people announcing their melodramatic departures from something they reputedly once loved.  This season it's the signing of John Terry, last season it was games moved to different dates and times, season before it was relegation, season before that not signing the likes of John Terry or what ever.  If you're going to stop supporting the club fine.  Please no song and dance about it, just slip out the back, no one will notice either way or care for that matter.

When I read these departure posts I always imagine someone recently divorced because their partner left drawers open or left towels on the floor.

[Jimbo]

Well it certainly hasn't been all about silverware, not for a generation in any case.

We all have different ideas of what Aston Villa represents in our heads, but the idea that there's some philosophy underpinning the club is a bit fanciful. We're a business. We sell tracksuit tops for £100 and shit beer for the best part of a fiver. We don't play to a set code. There isn't a 'Villa way'. We're not Corinthian FC. If you want to compete with the rest of the pack, you have to be as good as them and at least as bad. 

Our deep attachment to the club is sewn into our very identities, but the corporate machine has unpicked that thread and spun it into something quite unrecognisable from the Villa of my childhood fantasies. I don't look to Villa for role models any more. Does anyone, seriously? But if you no longer want to support the club it's a personal thing, and you're entitled to exercise your right.

Corruption and immorality is ingrained in football as it is in society. The grand wide streets and fine buildings of our capital are built largely on the proceeds of imperialism, slavery, exploitation and empire. Do we boycott London? If we were all dedicated exemplars of morality and righteousness, we'd never step foot outside the house.

[B38 Villa]

AVFC are no longer a serious football club having signed this arsehole. After over fifty years of supporting the Villa I now feel like giving up.

Bye then

[dave.woodhall]

AVFC are no longer a serious football club having signed this arsehole. After over fifty years of supporting the Villa I now feel like giving up.

This is what I don't understand. I know that I said everyone's line in the sand is different, but in the past fifty years football-wise we've been relegated three times and almost gone down on numerous other occasions. We've suffered record defeats and worst-ever humiliations. We've had a string of deadbeats and piss takers on the books. When it comes to morality we've had a woman-beater, numerous drink-drivers, drug addicts and assorted hell-raisers. We had a chairman who pissed on the memory of the man who gave us our greatest achievement and our last two owners have made their fortunes in less than ethically-pure circumstances. We've taken money from gambling firms, sweatshop owners and trophy hunters.

And somehow, signing one of the biggest names in English football, the biggest name this league has had since it adopted its current ridiculous and commerce-orientated name, means we can't be taken seriously anymore?

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

AVFC are no longer a serious football club having signed this arsehole. After over fifty years of supporting the Villa I now feel like giving up.

This is what I don't understand. I know that I said everyone's line in the sand is different, but in the past fifty years football-wise we've been relegated three times and almost gone down on numerous other occasions. We've suffered record defeats and worst-ever humiliations. We've had a string of deadbeats and piss takers on the books. When it comes to morality we've had a woman-beater, numerous drink-drivers, drug addicts and assorted hell-raisers. We had a chairman who pissed on the memory of the man who gave us our greatest achievement and our last two owners have made their fortunes in less than ethically-pure circumstances. We've taken money from gambling firms, sweatshop owners and trophy hunters.

And somehow, signing one of the biggest names in English football, the biggest name this league has had since it adopted its current ridiculous and commerce-orientated name, means we can't be taken seriously anymore?

Wot Dave said.

[Nev]

AVFC are no longer a serious football club having signed this arsehole. After over fifty years of supporting the Villa I now feel like giving up.

This is what I don't understand. I know that I said everyone's line in the sand is different, but in the past fifty years football-wise we've been relegated three times and almost gone down on numerous other occasions. We've suffered record defeats and worst-ever humiliations. We've had a string of deadbeats and piss takers on the books. When it comes to morality we've had a woman-beater, numerous drink-drivers, drug addicts and assorted hell-raisers. We had a chairman who pissed on the memory of the man who gave us our greatest achievement and our last two owners have made their fortunes in less than ethically-pure circumstances. We've taken money from gambling firms, sweatshop owners and trophy hunters.

And somehow, signing one of the biggest names in English football, the biggest name this league has had since it adopted its current ridiculous and commerce-orientated name, means we can't be taken seriously anymore?

I think it's tied in with the desire to over react to every little thing. To paraphrase our little friend from the other side of the city every time something happens in football that he doesn't like "the game's gone". Celebrity Twitter flounce offs, no platforming and knee jerk boycotts and resignations come from a world where people only see black and white, where if you don't actively support something you are automatically assumed to be against it.

It reminds me of the need to demonstrate how upset you are, that you are offering your condolences following a catastrophic event or some such rather than doing it quietly and with dignity, the "Princess Di, bunch of flowers on the pavement" type thing.

[garyshawsknee]

I'll never be a Terry fan, but signing Richardson, Cole and Senderos a few summers ago was far more serious and alarming in my eyes.

[paul_e]

Well it certainly hasn't been all about silverware, not for a generation in any case.

We all have different ideas of what Aston Villa represents in our heads, but the idea that there's some philosophy underpinning the club is a bit fanciful. We're a business. We sell tracksuit tops for £100 and shit beer for the best part of a fiver. We don't play to a set code. There isn't a 'Villa way'. We're not Corinthian FC. If you want to compete with the rest of the pack, you have to be as good as them and at least as bad. 

Our deep attachment to the club is sewn into our very identities, but the corporate machine has unpicked that thread and spun it into something quite unrecognisable from the Villa of my childhood fantasies. I don't look to Villa for role models any more. Does anyone, seriously? But if you no longer want to support the club it's a personal thing, and you're entitled to exercise your right.

Corruption and immorality is ingrained in football as it is in society. The grand wide streets and fine buildings of our capital are built largely on the proceeds of imperialism, slavery, exploitation and empire. Do we boycott London? If we were all dedicated exemplars of morality and righteousness, we'd never step foot outside the house.

The bold bit just isn't true.  There is very much a Villa way, in the same way that every club has certain things that are core to them.

The Villa way is, unfortunately, to play ourselves down.  We sign Terry (admittedly a big name for this league) and some fans are acting as if he's the biggest name ever.  We get linked with Joe Hart and most fans reaction is 'why would he come here?'

That same reaction holds true regardless of where we are at the time.  When we were pushing around the top 4 and you had people thinking Wesley Sneijder was far too big a name for us.Have we ever signed a genuine international superstar, despite being one of the biggest clubs in the biggest league in the world (until recently) I honestly can't think of us ever picking up a genuinely top player at his peak, we got people on the way up or down a few times and we've signed a few that are a step or 2 down the ladder but never the really top players.  This is something I've said before, we're comfortably the biggest club in this league but last summer and in January instead of getting players who were too good for the league we got players who were used to it and went back to our normal mode of operation of picking up the better players from the clubs below us.

It's an extension of the Birmingham way, we know we're big but we don't want people to pay too much attention to us so we play it down but then get pissed off when tinpot shithouses like Tottenham Hotspur or Manchester get talked up as if they're more important than we are.

If Xia really wants to make the club into a champion league super club then the biggest task he has is to change that mentality.  As much as I've been opposed to signing Terry (because of his age alone) he's the right type of signing at least and is an indication that we're looking in the right direction, Hart would be another nod that way, Whelan, not so much.

[dave.woodhall]

Well it certainly hasn't been all about silverware, not for a generation in any case.

We all have different ideas of what Aston Villa represents in our heads, but the idea that there's some philosophy underpinning the club is a bit fanciful. We're a business. We sell tracksuit tops for £100 and shit beer for the best part of a fiver. We don't play to a set code. There isn't a 'Villa way'. We're not Corinthian FC. If you want to compete with the rest of the pack, you have to be as good as them and at least as bad. 

Our deep attachment to the club is sewn into our very identities, but the corporate machine has unpicked that thread and spun it into something quite unrecognisable from the Villa of my childhood fantasies. I don't look to Villa for role models any more. Does anyone, seriously? But if you no longer want to support the club it's a personal thing, and you're entitled to exercise your right.

Corruption and immorality is ingrained in football as it is in society. The grand wide streets and fine buildings of our capital are built largely on the proceeds of imperialism, slavery, exploitation and empire. Do we boycott London? If we were all dedicated exemplars of morality and righteousness, we'd never step foot outside the house.

The bold bit just isn't true.  There is very much a Villa way, in the same way that every club has certain things that are core to them.

The Villa way is, unfortunately, to play ourselves down.  We sign Terry (admittedly a big name for this league) and some fans are acting as if he's the biggest name ever.  We get linked with Joe Hart and most fans reaction is 'why would he come here?'

That same reaction holds true regardless of where we are at the time.  When we were pushing around the top 4 and you had people thinking Wesley Sneijder was far too big a name for us.Have we ever signed a genuine international superstar, despite being one of the biggest clubs in the biggest league in the world (until recently) I honestly can't think of us ever picking up a genuinely top player at his peak, we got people on the way up or down a few times and we've signed a few that are a step or 2 down the ladder but never the really top players.  This is something I've said before, we're comfortably the biggest club in this league but last summer and in January instead of getting players who were too good for the league we got players who were used to it and went back to our normal mode of operation of picking up the better players from the clubs below us.

It's an extension of the Birmingham way, we know we're big but we don't want people to pay too much attention to us so we play it down but then get pissed off when tinpot shithouses like Tottenham Hotspur or Manchester get talked up as if they're more important than we are.

If Xia really wants to make the club into a champion league super club then the biggest task he has is to change that mentality.  As much as I've been opposed to signing Terry (because of his age alone) he's the right type of signing at least and is an indication that we're looking in the right direction, Hart would be another nod that way, Whelan, not so much.

I agree with much of that, but I don't think anyone is saying that Terry is anything other than a short-term fix. He'll be the biggest name in the league but nowhere near the biggest we've had even in the past decade.

[Damo70]

I think the only time we have consistently acted like a heavyweight football club was under BFR. Perhaps to a lesser extent under Little and Gregory.

[paul_e]

I agree with much of that, but I don't think anyone is saying that Terry is anything other than a short-term fix. He'll be the biggest name in the league but nowhere near the biggest we've had even in the past decade.

Absolutely, my point was specifically about the 'villa way' comment, there is a way and it's one of the fundamental things that we need to change because it's a way which won't work for us to get to where Xia wants to be.  It's also, in my opinion, the thing that Lerner never properly addressed even when things were going well.

The bit where I've said some fans see him as the biggest name ever wasn't really about people on here because I don't think many people have been like that, I'm more thinking of comments I've seen on social media where people seem to think we've signed a 28 year old world player of the year contender.

[paul_e]

I think the only time we have consistently acted like a heavyweight football club was under BFR. Perhaps to a lesser extent under Little and Gregory.

I don't think we did under the latter 2 but I agree we hinted towards it under BFR but were held back by Ellis at the time.

[dave.woodhall]

I've always said we treat the big time as though we don't belong there. Atkinson said that the hardest part at Villa was persuading us that we could win things, John Gregory talked about trying to crack the mentality that it 'must' go wrong at some point. Looking back, I think that BFR tried to do the job but we were still a bit star-struck. It was only when Little and Gregory came along that we briefly acted like we belonged.

Then when Lerner arrived there was serious discussion on here about whether Thierry Henry was still good enough for us, but that's probably best forgotten now.

[Jimbo]

I meant 'Villa way' in terms of a philosophy, not as a pervading attitude. Something like that's been with us a long, long time. On one hand we talk about our illustrious history and traditions and impeccable standing in the game, on the other we meekly accept defeat and failure to the point of surrender.

It might have something to do with the wider Birmingham attitude. We like to think we're the second city of the 5th largest economy in the world, but almost never act like it.   

[paul_e]

I meant 'Villa way' in terms of a philosophy, not as a pervading attitude. Something like that's been with us a long, long time. On one hand we talk about our illustrious history and traditions and impeccable standing in the game, on the other we meekly accept defeat and failure to the point of surrender.

It might have something to do with the wider Birmingham attitude. We like to think we're the second city of the 5th largest economy in the world, but almost never act like it.   

I don't think you can split the 2.  The attitude is clear and that creates the philosophy which is to stick to an even keel, never upset anyone, never over reach (any hint of doing so is 'doing a leeds') but also not become 'small time' by acting like the smaller clubs.  Anything that disturbs the calm leads to over-reactions.