Post season thread

[Lucky Eddie]

Bruce saved his job with the blues win, I'd give him pre season, another window of shuffling and dealing then three months. If we're not gelling by mid autumn then it's time to go.

[Allan C]

Bruce saved his job with the blues win, I'd give him pre season, another window of shuffling and dealing then three months. If we're not gelling by mid autumn then it's time to go.

Bruce beating one of the worst teams in one of the worst leagues is nowhere near good enough to keep his job. Autumn will be too late, he should go now

[passitsideways]

The other issue I have about playing with another striker, which we've already seen, to an extent, with Hogan-Kodjia, and even if that striker can hold the ball up, is that you either need to play a straight 4-4-2 (which neuters Lansbury and Hourihane, since they have to split time between defending and attacking, which is exactly the problem everyone says we need to resolve), or a 4-4-2 diamond, which leaves us short of width since we don't have fullbacks who are any good going forward. The third option is to shift Kodjia out wide in a 4-3-3, which again seems entirely counterproductive.

[Matt C]

The season that was over before it even got going.

We fumbled the summer - from managerial appointment to transfers - and never quite recovered. We looked complacent and naive in the way we approached games and the players we signed and we've still not shaken it off.

I retain we're not that far away from being capable challengers - if there's one thing we've learned it's that you don't even have to be that good to be amongst the promotion pack in this league but you do have to grind out results and if we can start to do more of that away from home while continuing to be solid at home, it will be enough. I don't think we're far off being decent defensively but we're going to need to score more goals - if Bruce can unlock more of the potential we have while adding a select few wisely then we'll be back amongst the proper league in 12 months. If.

[oldhill_avfc]

The other issue I have about playing with another striker, which we've already seen, to an extent, with Hogan-Kodjia, and even if that striker can hold the ball up, is that you either need to play a straight 4-4-2 (which neuters Lansbury and Hourihane, since they have to split time between defending and attacking, which is exactly the problem everyone says we need to resolve), or a 4-4-2 diamond, which leaves us short of width since we don't have fullbacks who are any good going forward. The third option is to shift Kodjia out wide in a 4-3-3, which again seems entirely counterproductive.

This points out the dilemma.  Maybe it's the churn on the managers, but we've ended up with quite a few square pegs for round holes.

Maybe it's the fashionable way but is 3-4-2-1 our best bet?  The problem is that full backs aren't right.

Something like?:

                  GK

         Chester - Jedinak - Baker

RM/RB   Lansbury   Hourihane    LM/LB

           Kodija                   Grealish/Green

                         AN Other/Davies

Sorting out the majority of  Amavi, Hutton, Bree, De Laet, Taylor, McCormack and Hogan could make it self financing.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Ugh. It just wasnt good enough was it? If I was Xia I would be angry. He stepped up, two managers and many players put in a half effort.

[sid1964]

The football under Bruce has in the main been awful, even when we have won, I have walked away from the ground and not enjoyed watching what I have seen. Bruce for me will need to convince Dr Tony and the board that he is the right manager to get us out of this league.

I cannot see much money being spent in the summer unless we get a few players out.

[old man villa fan]

The other issue I have about playing with another striker, which we've already seen, to an extent, with Hogan-Kodjia, and even if that striker can hold the ball up, is that you either need to play a straight 4-4-2 (which neuters Lansbury and Hourihane, since they have to split time between defending and attacking, which is exactly the problem everyone says we need to resolve), or a 4-4-2 diamond, which leaves us short of width since we don't have fullbacks who are any good going forward. The third option is to shift Kodjia out wide in a 4-3-3, which again seems entirely counterproductive.

This points out the dilemma.  Maybe it's the churn on the managers, but we've ended up with quite a few square pegs for round holes.

Maybe it's the fashionable way but is 3-4-2-1 our best bet?  The problem is that full backs aren't right.

Something like?:

                  GK

         Chester - Jedinak - Baker

RM/RB   Lansbury   Hourihane    LM/LB

           Kodija                   Grealish/Green

                         AN Other/Davies

Sorting out the majority of  Amavi, Hutton, Bree, De Laet, Taylor, McCormack and Hogan could make it self financing.

If you are going to play 3 at the back you need pace in there to cover the full width and tracking runners. Those 3 are just about the three slowest players at the Club.

[passitsideways]

Wouldn't 3-4-2-1 still have this issue with Lansbury and Hourihane sitting too far back to make an impact in the final third?

As far as I'm concerned, the non-negotiable parts is a three-man midfield with those two ahead of Jedinak; Chester as a CB, and Kodjia as close to the other team's goal as possible. Work out everything around that, unless Messi decides he fancies a stint in Brum, in which case we can maybe think about drawing up something different.

[kippaxvilla2]

I can't believe people are even thinking that there is an appetite at the club to get rid of Bruce.  They reaffirmed his position when we were on the horrendous run this season then we went on a winning run so I cannot see how we would now be looking to sack him.  Unfortunately, we have somewhat nailed our colours to the mast with the money he has already spent and no doubt will spend in the summer.  I do agree that if we do not get off to a good start after say ten games next season then as the spectre of financial meltdown becomes more of a possibility then opinions at the club could change.

[MoetVillan]

The start of the season did for us.  But we needed to re find the winning feeling.  Our record for four years prior had hurt belief.  Football results are as much driven by momentum in my book, and we have had players coming into a dressing room of for want of a better word losers.  Going on runs of wins didn't ultimately turn our season, but at least players started to remember what it was like.  I would have liked us to keep on the "gas" a bit more towards the end of the season, we were not going to make play offs, but momentum into next year is now key.  We need to be firing at the start of next season from the off, not sputtering like rabbits in the headlights like this season.

[oldhill_avfc]

Wouldn't 3-4-2-1 still have this issue with Lansbury and Hourihane sitting too far back to make an impact in the final third?

As far as I'm concerned, the non-negotiable parts is a three-man midfield with those two ahead of Jedinak; Chester as a CB, and Kodjia as close to the other team's goal as possible. Work out everything around that, unless Messi decides he fancies a stint in Brum, in which case we can maybe think about drawing up something different.

Fair analysis (and also the comment re. the centre backs being too slow).

The problem with what you're saying is that we end up playing more or less the same way we played this season. 

For that to work, we need to upgrade Adomah and find another central striker or attacking midfielder on the left that Kodjia can work with. 

We've already tried McCormack, Hogan, Grealish, Green, Gabby and Gestede (briefly) without much success - especially away from home 

Do we stick or twist?

[paul richard]

Last Oct I was just about ok with the appointment of Bruce on the basis of his track record at this level.  He seemed like a good fit and he looked like the man to stop the rot and get us organised.  On the back of the 15/16 season and all that had gone before, plus the drift under RDM, we needed stability.  To be fair he seemed to be meeting the brief for a while, and even as late as the turn-around game v Derby in February, which stopped the run of defeats and set us up for a run of 7 wins in 9, I was more or less on side.  But after we had obviously stabilised, I wanted to see something more expansive and expressive which would play to the strengths of the better players in the squad and get us on the front foot in games.  It never happened.  Even during that run, against, for example, QPR at home, we looked mentally weak against a mediocre team, conceding time, possession and territory in a game that we should have been able to win in a canter.  So when the mini-downturn came, v Reading, Fulham etc, it was no great surprise.  SB has finished on a low note for me.  I'm sure he will stay, so we had better get used to it and get behind him, but he's skating on thin ice.  He needs an improvement in results and style, and he needs it from the very start of next season.  Otherwise he'll be gone by the time we put the clocks back.  The canary in the coal mine for me is Leandro Bacuna, a terrible player who should be nowhere near the first XI.  If he appears on SB's first team sheet in August, I predict SB will be gone by October.   

[oldhill_avfc]

Agreed re. Bacuna.

The only thing that's ever likely to stop me going up the Villa is to hear that Bacuna, Amava and Adomah are playing together in midfield.

[cheltenhamlion]

We need to get our shit together. We play either Millwall or Bradford twice next season.