Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on May 07, 2017, 02:42:40 PM
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Thoughts on the season gone by and the summer ahead.
What do we need, where do we start? Not convinced by Bruce but there is no chance he's getting fired so may as well get used to that. But once again in the playing staff there will be a lot of change. It's a massively average league as evidenced today, and promotion will be the only goal next year.
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This is the worse, and lowest, Villa have been in my lifetime. That we have only had a few seasons worse than this in our entire history shows the standing of the club in the pantheons of football, but also also how we've fallen in recent times.
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My initial reaction is that nothing has been particularly enjoyable about this season, save for Kodjia finding his shooting boots. From officials to bitter opposition fans to the turgid football from my own side, 2016/17 has been one massive waste of my time.
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The first thing we need is a few weeks break without having to think / worry / get completely exasperated by football.
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Last season was the worst Villa team in my lifetime. This season we're reaping the shit from 7 years of sabotage, but I still think this team is better than the Villa team from 12 months ago. It was always a big ask to come back at the first attempt and I think deep down we all knew it. Next season we'll be our promotion I think. Just my opinion, that's all. Bruce has a history of getting teams up however ugly those teams are. He'll do it, just give him the tools and stick by him.
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It's the 7th worst season in our history if you go by league placings, finishing 33rd in English football this season.
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The first thing we need is a few weeks break without having to think / worry / get completely exasperated by football.
Hear hear.
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I've no intention of worrying about Villa for a while with cricket and tennis to look forward to, but a lot of players should leave and a few quality signings have to come in, not least up front.
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Rubbish really. We desperately need an identity.
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It's not last season bad. But given it's the second tier, it's worse than anything else I've witnessed with Villa in 27 years (I didn't see the last time we were in the second level).
47 goals in 46 games. That says a lot to me. RDM was too cautious and couldn't find a way to get our attacking players gel. Bruce has made our defence better (but still frustratingly prone to individual self destruction) but at the same time has been far too dour. Even off the back of his better runs where you would imagine we'd start to build on a solid base and be more adventurous going forward, he's then gone into certain games with our back to the wall, playing far too deep, we've got beat and then gone on shit runs as a consequence.
We need a more progressive manager. Someone younger and a bit more adventurous. We need to stop wasting money on overpriced players. 4-5 reasonable players for next season. Keep our best players in the summer. Fresh approach from a rising manager and then hopefully we'll see a progression.
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I've no intention of worrying about Villa for a while with cricket and tennis to look forward to, but a lot of players should leave and a few quality signings have to come in, not least up front.
Whilst he is means our worst player bacuna can do one embarrassing again
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Despite what we think of it, our defence is decent for this level, 5th fewest goals conceded and a number of those were gifts from us.
Attacking though, we've spent most of the season looking disjointed and relying on a player, usually Kod, to do something special. It's why we're 21st for goals scored with only sha, Rotherham and Wigan scoring less.
What I most wanted, if we didn't go up, was to have enthusiasm and optimism for next season, must admit that I don't have either.
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Dismal season. To not even finish top half is criminal.
I do however think we'll be up there challenging next year. I know it dosen't look very likely currently but there's plenty of examples of teams who've struggled and then risen up to the top 6 the next year.
I don't think championship will be as strong next season due to who has gone up and who is coming down. I wouldn't be scared of Sunderland, Boro or Hull at all.
Lots of work to do though, there's no dressing it up any other way.
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Given the poor quality of the championship generally i'd like to think it's a fine line between where we have just finished and challenging for promotion. A fine line that a club like us should be able to cross.
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Total shit for me, i hate the division and havent enjoyed any of it
13th is criminal
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Awful season, Wyness, Round, Bruce and the rest of the old boys club will be lucky to survive the summer. Seems to me if we gambled significantly more than we should have on immediate promotion and abysmally failed on and off the pitch.
As others have commented, the club has no identity, the team no style of play just an incoherent mess on and off the pitch.
Enjoy the summer all, up the villa.
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yes particularly as that equally antediluvian Warnock managed to get Cardiff above us.
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We didn't go down.
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It's been crushingly Aston Villa.
We need to stop appointing managers who can't believe their luck at getting such a big job.
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Nine points above the Rags who could have been relegated today says it all. Fortunately are little run of wins got us safe and dry but did nothing to hide we've looked one of the poorest teams in the league despite heavily outspending everybody. I expected ugly but never this ugly.
We look great on paper. We just struggle on grass. Thank god the season is over. Right now next season is about as welcome to a visit to the dentist to have teeth pulled with pliers.
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It's been crushingly Aston Villa.
We need to stop appointing managers who can't believe their luck at getting such a big job.
Last season was Aston Villa. This was the drab sequel Aston Villa 2: The Shittening.
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Abysmal season.
Very few goals.
Arguably no 90 minute performances.
Loads of late goals conceded.
Silly sendings off and goal inducing errors.
No style or imagination.
Paint by numbers transfers.
Gabby, Richards, Bacuna still at the club.
McCormack being the next ****** off the conveyor belt of ****** we've painstakingly built at Bodymoor heath aka Easy Street.
Plus points.
Chester, Kodjia and Dr Tony bankrolling us.
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I've enjoyed the division, the away days and the many good clubs we've played (and their fans) and the quality of football a lot of teams have played against us.
We finished where I expected but I really didn't imagine we'd be so shit to watch. If teams were relegated on the quality of their football then we'd have comfortably been in the bottom three.
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An awful season and IMO no better than last season.
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Dr T rates the season as 59/100.
I think he's including the off pitch improvements.
On pitch I would say 39/100. Must do better.
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An awful season and IMO no better than last season.
Exactly how I feel. The directionless recruitment has been fucking disgraceful and could have long term consequences for the club, I mean £80m odd spent...How is this remotely acceotable
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Considering the amount of money spent bottom line how many games have you come away from thinking we had played some decent stuff? Rotherham at home and second half against Brighton away for me.
13th in the championship just isn't good enough regardless of circumstances in my opinion.
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If your rating the season then it would be between 11 & 18 % totally unsatisfactory Bruce has not improved us need to clean the club and bring in someone with fresh ideas
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A mediocre midtable finish, which is both an overdue pleasure and a complete disgrace considering the resources and talent available.
Here's to ambivalence
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Pretty grim season, not as embarrassing as last season, but grim all the same. I haven't seen much of an improvement since Bruce came in, play far too deep and negative, even on the winning run we never dominated games, which considering how much we spent is nowhere near good enough. If things don't improve, I can see the doc looking for a next manager come October.
I use to hate the summer arriving as a kid and younger man regarding The Villa, now it's a welcome relief. UTV
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He was bought in to get into the play offs.
We are not even close.
Abject failure, it will be the same next year unless the club get a grip and start making good decisions.
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I've enjoyed winning a few games both under RDM and Bruce.
It felt good to win but agree with the frustrations of many on here...it's not been good enough
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I've read somewhere we're one of the favourites to go up next season. Based upon?
Finishing 13th?
Scoring 47 in 46?
Having players of the year Richards, Flabby and Bacuna still in the squad?
Im exasperated.
I like the combo of Bruce, Wyness and Dr T that have steadied the ship as we could have sank further. A few wins to build upon and some real shit to be wiped off the squad sheet.
I'm thankful for the Fulham game 1-0 after taking Mrs Remy for the first time ever and we won.
Brighton away we were magnificent and just wish we won that one.
Most of the TV live games were utter gash.
Please may we have a nice darker claret traditional kit for 17/18.
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The most disappointing aspect of all is that none of the teams we played were significantly better than us so with a bit more skill, imagination and guile and some proper bloody coaching for once we would have pissed this league.
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Average crouds of 32,000. Away grounds sold out all season. Amazing support. I honestly believe that we'll all come together next season.
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The story of our season:
The Di Matteo Era - L W D D L D D D D D L
All those lost points from winning positions was simultaneously unbelievable and so predictable.
Bruce Bounce - D W W D W D W L W L W W D
Did ok here, without being impressive.
Bruce L L D L L L L L
Another series of results that has become too familiar
False Hope W W W L W W W W
We surely can't make the playoffs, can we?
On the Beach D L L W L D
Ended up 18 points (+GD) off a playoff position.
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I despair of this club - it's been in a spin for 7 excruciating years. I started following the Villa in 1967 so I've seen some dark times, but this period has been thoroughly energy-sapping.
This close-season, we need to bring in some decent coaches as a priority; agree what the club playing philosophy should be, and start the process of coaching and recruiting to that progressive playing philosophy.
Newcastle succeeded partly because they had an expansive playing approach: both RdM and SB have been too cautious in their approach.
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Despite spending what we have, we have only managed to get rid of some of the shit, stabilise the club and put the brakes on a dreadful decline. Like others have indicated, this is as low as as I want to see us go. There is still work to do in getting more rubbish out. I hope Bruce can see it too although I am aware that he doesn't do bomb squads. Richards, Bacuna, Agbonlahor need to go. Grealish needs to wake up. We still need something like five players in and I agree with Bruce that we need to strengthen in every area.
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Last season was the worst Villa team in my lifetime. This season we're reaping the shit from 7 years of sabotage, but I still think this team is better than the Villa team from 12 months ago. It was always a big ask to come back at the first attempt and I think deep down we all knew it. Next season we'll be our promotion I think. Just my opinion, that's all. Bruce has a history of getting teams up however ugly those teams are. He'll do it, just give him the tools and stick by him.
I'd go along with that, word for word.
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I said to Mr Woodhall before the game that I had found this season even more painful than last season. I find mid Championship mediocrity even more humiliating than relegation. Last year we had the comfort blanket that the owner's money would enable us to bounce straight back. That fantasy has evaporated and we are staring at more mediocrity next season. Even Bruce's words to the crowd after the game limited him to saying they were going make us "a force in the Championship". Talk about setting the bar low.
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he's right though, Brian. In order to get back to the PL we have to become a force in the Chumps - an irresistible force who gain promotion .
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Last season was the worst Villa team in my lifetime. This season we're reaping the shit from 7 years of sabotage, but I still think this team is better than the Villa team from 12 months ago. It was always a big ask to come back at the first attempt and I think deep down we all knew it. Next season we'll be our promotion I think. Just my opinion, that's all. Bruce has a history of getting teams up however ugly those teams are. He'll do it, just give him the tools and stick by him.
I'd go along with that, word for word.
And me
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he's right though, Brian. In order to get back to the PL we have to become a force in the Chumps - an irresistible force who gain promotion .
We could have just decided to do it in twelve months like Newcastle did.
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Away form is what's cost us. Only Reading have lost fewer at home.
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Yes Mr U except he missed out the word "irresistible". We really do need to think above our weight.
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And I would fine Amavi two weeks wages for that cuddle in front of the Holte. It's a game of football not singles' night at B6.
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Next season is the most important in the history of the club. It wouldn't have been so bad if I thought we were ending the season on a high and with momentum. But it's almost the opposite. We look as far away from a top six team as ever. An utterly underwhelming season.
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Next season is the most important in the history of the club. It wouldn't have been so bad if I thought we were ending the season on a high and with momentum. But it's almost the opposite. We look as far away from a top six team as ever. An utterly underwhelming season.
Definitely
If we dont go up i hope the dr is willing to spunk invest further shitloads of cash
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Rubbish.
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I've enjoyed the fact that Villa Park has become a difficult place to come to again - after years of being a soft touch at home.
But the overall lack of goals and the timid way we've played away from home has been embarrassing at times.
Bruce must spend the summer working out how to set up his front six and who to supplement Kodija, Hourihane, Jedinak and Lansbury. Pace out wide is the key for me.
Goodbye to Bacuna, Elphick, Richards, McCormack and Agbonlahor hopefully.
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he's right though, Brian. In order to get back to the PL we have to become a force in the Chumps - an irresistible force who gain promotion .
We could have just decided to do it in twelve months like Newcastle did.
We were a million miles behind both Newcastle and Norwich, who came down with us. Both those two were expected to bounce back. Plus I had us behind several steady, settled championship teams.
We had heck of a lot of catching up to do.
I thought we might sneak a play off shot, then we had that awful run.
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And so our last game of the season has gone, leaving us thirteenth, 32 points behind the leaders. A good game against a good side in the sunshine, with a last- minute equaliser sending the title to the Toon. Our only satisfaction coming from spoiling the Seagull’s party in front of just under 33,000. What a shame that we didn’t give Brighton extra tickets with almost ten thousand spare seats.
We didn’t come down as swaggering braggarts, full of belief that the title was ours for the taking. Instead there was a widespread fear, and belief, that we could go out of the trapdoor into the third tier. The Di Matteo appointment felt wrong, but the Steve Clarke appointment as his sidekick gave us hope. But for whatever the reason they were not up to the task of rescuing a club plummeting like a stone, a process which started with Martin O Neil’s departure just under seven years ago. A mixture of poor ownership, bad management, bad judgement and bad luck have held the club in a vice like grip ever since.
Steve Bruce was a universally accepted, if not acclaimed, choice as the latest man to reverse the ever steepening downward trajectory. Thirteenth in the second tier is hardly a measure of the club’s ambition, but set against the past seven years, it will do. Under MON we stubbornly stuttered as better than most, but not good enough for the top four, then we were grateful for a win, any win. Last year we won three, this year we won sixteen, scoring forty seven, not twenty seven. As a fan, that feels better.
We have enjoyed the Champ this season, new grounds, big away followings, virtually no crowd trouble, different teams and players. I think the Champ has enjoyed us too. A big scalp to take, big attendances home and away, an evens chance of beating us. Not that I would like to make a habit of this.
Of the play off sides, Fulham look to have momentum. I like the fact that it will be a north ( Wednesday/Huddersfield) v south ( Fulham/Reading) final. But everyone has a chance. Of the relegated sides Sunderland look to have no chance of making a quick return, Boro look strong, but Palace , Hull or Swansea will surely have the stuffing knocked out of them whoever comes down. I think there will be some room at the top next season with Leeds, Derby and maybe Birmingham in contention ( depends what happens with the Redknapp/ Cotterill combination, I rate the latter very highly).
Villa next season? I anticipate a huge churn in players as the deadwood disappears. I expect an improvement on this season, that is all.
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And so our last game of the season has gone, leaving us thirteenth, 32 points behind the leaders. A good game against a good side in the sunshine, with a last- minute equaliser sending the title to the Toon. Our only satisfaction coming from spoiling the Seagull’s party in front of just under 33,000. What a shame that we didn’t give Brighton extra tickets with almost ten thousand spare seats.
We didn’t come down as swaggering braggarts, full of belief that the title was ours for the taking. Instead there was a widespread fear, and belief, that we could go out of the trapdoor into the third tier. The Di Matteo appointment felt wrong, but the Steve Clarke appointment as his sidekick gave us hope. But for whatever the reason they were not up to the task of rescuing a club plummeting like a stone, a process which started with Martin O Neil’s departure just under seven years ago. A mixture of poor ownership, bad management, bad judgement and bad luck have held the club in a vice like grip ever since.
Steve Bruce was a universally accepted, if not acclaimed, choice as the latest man to reverse the ever steepening downward trajectory. Thirteenth in the second tier is hardly a measure of the club’s ambition, but set against the past seven years, it will do. Under MON we stubbornly stuttered as better than most, but not good enough for the top four, then we were grateful for a win, any win. Last year we won three, this year we won sixteen, scoring forty seven, not twenty seven. As a fan, that feels better.
We have enjoyed the Champ this season, new grounds, big away followings, virtually no crowd trouble, different teams and players. I think the Champ has enjoyed us too. A big scalp to take, big attendances home and away, an evens chance of beating us. Not that I would like to make a habit of this.
Of the play off sides, Fulham look to have momentum. I like the fact that it will be a north ( Wednesday/Huddersfield) v south ( Fulham/Reading) final. But everyone has a chance. Of the relegated sides Sunderland look to have no chance of making a quick return, Boro look strong, but Palace , Hull or Swansea will surely have the stuffing knocked out of them whoever comes down. I think there will be some room at the top next season with Leeds, Derby and maybe Birmingham in contention ( depends what happens with the Redknapp/ Cotterill combination, I rate the latter very highly).
Villa next season? I anticipate a huge churn in players as the deadwood disappears. I expect an improvement on this season, that is all.
Totally agree with this
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I said to Mr Woodhall before the game that I had found this season even more painful than last season. I find mid Championship mediocrity even more humiliating than relegation. Last year we had the comfort blanket that the owner's money would enable us to bounce straight back. That fantasy has evaporated and we are staring at more mediocrity next season. Even Bruce's words to the crowd after the game limited him to saying they were going make us "a force in the Championship". Talk about setting the bar low.
Did he actually speak to the crowd after the game, I thought we stopped that years ago when SGT got abused for it.
Must admit I'm a bit baffled they actually still did a lap thingy after the final whistle. Did good numbers actually stay for it, a little bizarre given what we've witnessed over the season.
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Consistently inconsistent.
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I said to Mr Woodhall before the game that I had found this season even more painful than last season. I find mid Championship mediocrity even more humiliating than relegation. Last year we had the comfort blanket that the owner's money would enable us to bounce straight back. That fantasy has evaporated and we are staring at more mediocrity next season. Even Bruce's words to the crowd after the game limited him to saying they were going make us "a force in the Championship". Talk about setting the bar low.
Did he actually speak to the crowd after the game, I thought we stopped that years ago when SGT got abused for it.
Must admit I'm a bit baffled they actually still did a lap thingy after the final whistle. Did good numbers actually stay for it, a little bizarre given what we've witnessed over the season.
poor
Yes a fair proportion stayed including us. Had we not equalised I think the ground would have emptied super quick, especially if Brighton were going to lift the trophy too.
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I've been to every game (bar Luton) and am delighted the season is over. Whilst I've been to some new grounds and had some great days out, the standard of football has been diabolical. Add to this we have won 4 games on the road, finished 18 points off the play offs and finished below fucking Cardiff and you have a record to be ashamed of. Bruce has an absolutely huge job on his hands and if he hasn't got us top 3 by November I'd expect him to be on his bike.
Have a great summer everyone.
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The away form needs to improve. At home we've been largely solid; a few too many draws we ought to have picked up maximum points from, but the away form is atrocious.
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I said to Mr Woodhall before the game that I had found this season even more painful than last season. I find mid Championship mediocrity even more humiliating than relegation. Last year we had the comfort blanket that the owner's money would enable us to bounce straight back. That fantasy has evaporated and we are staring at more mediocrity next season. Even Bruce's words to the crowd after the game limited him to saying they were going make us "a force in the Championship". Talk about setting the bar low.
Last year was far worse for me. Weekly public humiliation, routinely watching delirious away supporters celebrating a win. I anticipated we would be well short of promotion this time around, my guess was 9th. At least we have steadied the ship. Yes the football has been dull mostly but I think we will improve considerably next season. I would have liked to have seen more of Green, shame injury curtailed his season, what I did she of him looks very promising.
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Last year was by far and away the worst season in the clubs history and a complete humiliation.
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£80m spent, 13th place if i was Bruce I would be worried about Monday's 9am meeting.
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I go to the matches (i'm not a season ticket holder) with my nephew and a family friend. All three of us to a man have enjoyed this season more than the last five.
Hasn't anyone else felt it a refreshing change? we've won more matches, we've played new teams etc. I still haven't even watched a single episode of MOTD or watched any premier league football on the box all season either. I haven't missed it one bit. Mind you i've never been one to watch the CL or much PL on telly anyway.
The gloom amongst most surprises me. Today, i though was possibly our best performance even. I feel like i'm watching a rebirth, it could take another 2-3 seasons to develop into something but for me at least it's a damn sight more interesting than the absolute garbage i've watched the last 5/6 seasons.
Humiliating?
Weird.
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I said to Mr Woodhall before the game that I had found this season even more painful than last season. I find mid Championship mediocrity even more humiliating than relegation. Last year we had the comfort blanket that the owner's money would enable us to bounce straight back. That fantasy has evaporated and we are staring at more mediocrity next season. Even Bruce's words to the crowd after the game limited him to saying they were going make us "a force in the Championship". Talk about setting the bar low.
Did he actually speak to the crowd after the game, I thought we stopped that years ago when SGT got abused for it.
Must admit I'm a bit baffled they actually still did a lap thingy after the final whistle. Did good numbers actually stay for it, a little bizarre given what we've witnessed over the season.
poor
Yes a fair proportion stayed including us. Had we not equalised I think the ground would have emptied super quick, especially if Brighton were going to lift the trophy too.
Think the only two occasions I've stayed were when we finished 6th in the prem, certainly I remember staying after the Newcastle game in 09 but that was more the amusement of relegating them. I'd say those sort of seasons were certainly when it was a good effort by the team and they did deserve the applause.
Just surprised we actually did one. As I've said I thought a quick clap at the final whistle would've sufficed.
I think the crowd have been pretty tolerant this season on the whole. Don't see the same next season if we have a mediocre start.
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A pile of dung teaming with worms.
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A pile of dung teaming with worms.
You've not been impressed?
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Next year we need a clear identity and to play in a way that suits the players we have.
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£80m spent, 13th place if i was Bruce I would be worried about Monday's 9am meeting.
I'm not sure why, Bruce didn't spend it all.
Disapointing to finish where we did and not to make more of a fist of promotion. Some poor performances, some very averages ones and occasional glimpses that we could be a decent side. Should be an interesting summer.
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I go to the matches (i'm not a season ticket holder) with my nephew and a family friend. All three of us to a man have enjoyed this season more than the last five.
Hasn't anyone else felt it a refreshing change? we've won more matches, we've played new teams etc. I still haven't even watched a single episode of MOTD or watched any premier league football on the box all season either. I haven't missed it one bit. Mind you i've never been one to watch the CL or much PL on telly anyway.
The gloom amongst most surprises me. Today, i though was possibly our best performance even. I feel like i'm watching a rebirth, it could take another 2-3 seasons to develop into something but for me at least it's a damn sight more interesting than the absolute garbage i've watched the last 5/6 seasons.
Humiliating?
Weird.
This. But then I've been really lucky, in my eight visits we've won six, drawn one, lost one. To be winning games and playing different teams has been a breath of fresh air. But obviously we don't want to be down here too long.
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I have to say that if the team do not get off to a good start; especially if the performances are as stultifying as many have been this season that it will not take much for the supporters to turn.
There were some encouraging signs today in the second half but there is much work to be done if we are to even make the play offs. Certainly the amount spent on the team has not yielded much of a return so far.
A busy summer for Mr Bruce!
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I go to the matches (i'm not a season ticket holder) with my nephew and a family friend. All three of us to a man have enjoyed this season more than the last five.
Hasn't anyone else felt it a refreshing change? we've won more matches, we've played new teams etc. I still haven't even watched a single episode of MOTD or watched any premier league football on the box all season either. I haven't missed it one bit. Mind you i've never been one to watch the CL or much PL on telly anyway.
The gloom amongst most surprises me. Today, i though was possibly our best performance even. I feel like i'm watching a rebirth, it could take another 2-3 seasons to develop into something but for me at least it's a damn sight more interesting than the absolute garbage i've watched the last 5/6 seasons.
Humiliating?
Weird.
Superiority complex doesn't hack it with me, we're shit and we are not going up anytime soon with Bruce, I'm at an age now where I don't really care anymore! Yeah right, as the youth would say.
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I go to the matches (i'm not a season ticket holder) with my nephew and a family friend. All three of us to a man have enjoyed this season more than the last five.
Hasn't anyone else felt it a refreshing change? we've won more matches, we've played new teams etc. I still haven't even watched a single episode of MOTD or watched any premier league football on the box all season either. I haven't missed it one bit. Mind you i've never been one to watch the CL or much PL on telly anyway.
The gloom amongst most surprises me. Today, i though was possibly our best performance even. I feel like i'm watching a rebirth, it could take another 2-3 seasons to develop into something but for me at least it's a damn sight more interesting than the absolute garbage i've watched the last 5/6 seasons.
Humiliating?
Weird.
Ultimately the history of the club has been largely written from what we've done at the top level and division. Yes we've had spells in the wilderness but thankfully they've been relatively brief.
Hopefully this time will be similar otherwise we run the risk of becoming another Forest or Leeds, clubs who still get decent column inches but that's due to incompetent ownership, changing the manager every 5 minutes and battling relegation to league 1.
I want us playing the best teams in this country before too long thanks.
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I have not found this season a refreshing change. I have found it excruciatingly disappointing to put it mildly.
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More disillusioned at the end of this season than I was last season. Last season you could see that we were out of our depth and there were a lot of issues to sort out in the summer but I was realistic about the situation. At the start of the season I thought that it would take time to settle and sort out a team structure but thought that we would get progressively better as the season went on and either finish just below the top 6 or just make the play-offs.
As it has turned out we have ended the season having failed to establish a good team structure and played some poor football along the way. We have some good players that should be doing far better but we are still carrying some players from last season that I think are disruptive to a bright new future. To some extent we gambled on some signings and they have not come off and need to be added to the list for clearing out.
Looking back on the start to the season, we may have been better in the long run to have continued with RDM and given up on promotion but the decision was to still go for it and bring in Bruce, the specialist for this situation. This decision has to go down as a failure. I expected a lot more from Bruce with the decent players he had at his disposal and the others he brought in, in what is a very average league at best.
I am always looking to the future and seeing how things can be progressively built so that you succeed but what I am seeing at the Club at the moment is just the opposite. We had a chance at the end of last season to have a complete clear out but we bottled it. We still have the chance to do this now and build a progressive structure but I fear we will not and that is why I am disillusioned as much as anything.
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Finishing 13th in this division is our lowest final position since 1976.
Steve Bruce said it is his lowest final position in his 20 years of management.
Final report, poor start, some good work mid season, but could/must do better next season.
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Finishing 13th in this division is our lowest final position since 1976.
Steve Bruce said it is his lowest final position in his 20 years of management.
Final report, poor start, some good work mid season, but could/must do better next season.
Final report, Fuck off you useless bastard.
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Could not agree more OMVF.. Every word.
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I thought we were ok today. That's twice we've made Brighton look very very ordinary.
On the season, probably about right, solid home form but away has been little short of emabarrasing. Issues for me are the inconsistency of far too many of our team and squad.
Johnstone - if we can get him then go for it hugely more confident than when he arrived. Need a decent back up.
Hutton - cult hero maybe but needs to be replaced. Happy to give De Laet a chance and been quite impressed with Bree.
Chester - excellent consistent and my POTY.
Baker - mid table championship player nowhere near good enough for where we need to be. For all his wholeheartedness he's a liability with the ball. Replace.
Elphick, Richards - get rid.
Taylor - been really impressed, settled well and very consistent. Amavi can go as he's just not consistent in his play or execution.
Adomah - another inconsistent player, we can't carry players like this in this division. Replace.
Jedinak - solid and excellent, keep and buy a backup.
Hourihane - hasn't settled yet but still not been given enough licence to get forwards.when he has has proved dangerous and been unlucky
Not to score more. Keep.
Lansbury - needs to dominate games
More has the ability needs to show it. Keep.
Gardner - I'm afraid it's over he just can't cut it.
Bacuna - another of the inconsistent ones does so many good things then ruins it with lackadaisical and sloppy passing, he's been really stroppy the last few months as well. Replace.
Green - keep so disappointed he picked up that injury as he'd just started to find the confidence to nail down a place. Looks like he filling out as well and looks a more muscular and physical Scott Sinclair.
Grealish- keep, we know the bad but when this lad plays we've no one like him.
Kodjia - love him, great workrate, expect the unexpected, and ability to fashion something from
Nothing. Keep.
Agbonlahor - replace
McCormack - replace
Hogan - replace
Davis - showed more in 30 mins today than the 3 above have in months. Keep and promote.
RHM - keep
Anyone on loan - sell.
By my reckoning we need a back up keeper, 2 or 3 new centre backs, a cover left back, central midfielder, 2 pacy wide options and a striker to replace the feckless, injury prone, inconsistent, poorly executing players we have.
Bruce - I'm really torn, we proved today we can play football, when we upped the tempo and pace at the start of the second half it was like a breath of fresh air and even going down to 10 men didn't dampen our intent. He's got until the end of October for me, no excuses for anything less than in and around the top 2 with the squad he's had and what's likely to happen this summer.
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I have not found this season a refreshing change. I have found it excruciatingly disappointing to put it mildly.
I agree. To be refreshing I'd like to see a Villa team that plays good football and dominates games.
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Completely agree with the AV82EC squad analysis apart from Johnstone as I think there's better out there but the club dealings in recent years don't give you confidence we'll find better so on balance him in full time wouldn't be the worst idea.
Think he's nailed the rest. Hutton is worshipped by the Holte but we simply need at least one FB who can actually bomb on and create goals with decent crosses, how many assists has Scot Cafu got again? Taylor is more a steady eddie on the other side.
Been disappointed with Adomah last few months, he seems to have given up so we need another wide player as we're already light in that area as indeed we are upfront.
From thinking we only needed at the most 4 signings I've changed my mind. Due to injuries like losing all our strikers and another so that a few injuries and we're back to playing Elphick, Gardner and Bacuna again. That really can't happen if we want promotion next season.
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It's been nothing short of pathetic .
Some thought we'd 'piss the league' .
The football has been appalling - 47 goals scored in 46 games. Every other team passes the ball better and play with more tempo than we do.
I've hardly missed a game home and away and whilst it's been good to go to different grounds such as Brentford , Brighton , Burton etc it's also been a chore watching the football Bruce churns out .
If we don't make a positive change , we'll be in this league for a good few years .
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he's right though, Brian. In order to get back to the PL we have to become a force in the Chumps - an irresistible force who gain promotion .
We could have just decided to do it in twelve months like Newcastle did.
We were a million miles behind both Newcastle and Norwich, who came down with us. Both those two were expected to bounce back. Plus I had us behind several steady, settled championship teams.
We had heck of a lot of catching up to do.
I thought we might sneak a play off shot, then we had that awful run.
God, if only we could have called on the likes of Cameron Jerome or Ciaran Clark then we'd have been fine.
Yes, we were a terrible side. Yes, we were terribly owned, run and managed last year, and for a good few years before, and yes there was a fuck of a lot of work to do.
That doesn't mean that the people who spent more money than has ever spent before in this division on people who were supposed to be good enough do something about it, get a pass because it wasn't an easy job.
Whatever state we were in, any side that comes down from the Premier League and doesn't get promoted in the following season has failed miserably, given the financial advantages that the Premier League gives you, even for a season.
The fact that we have many, many times the resources of literally every team who finished ahead of us (bar arguably one), and still finished 18 points from the playoffs should be an embarrassment to everyone at the club.
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After what we have spent, our finish this season is nothing short of pathetic.
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he's right though, Brian. In order to get back to the PL we have to become a force in the Chumps - an irresistible force who gain promotion .
We could have just decided to do it in twelve months like Newcastle did.
We were a million miles behind both Newcastle and Norwich, who came down with us. Both those two were expected to bounce back. Plus I had us behind several steady, settled championship teams.
We had heck of a lot of catching up to do.
I thought we might sneak a play off shot, then we had that awful run.
God, if only we could have called on the likes of Cameron Jerome or Ciaran Clark then we'd have been fine.
Yes, we were a terrible side. Yes, we were terribly owned, run and managed last year, and for a good few years before, and yes there was a fuck of a lot of work to do.
That doesn't mean that the people who spent more money than has ever spent before in this division on people who were supposed to be good enough do something about it, get a pass because it wasn't an easy job.
Whatever state we were in, any side that comes down from the Premier League and doesn't get promoted in the following season has failed miserably, given the opportunities the financial advantages that the Premier League gives you, even for a season.
The fact that we have many, many times the resources of literally every team who finished ahead of us (bar arguably one), and still finished 18 points from the playoffs should be an embarrassment to everyone at the club.
Spot on.
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I'm sick of watching other teams pass us off the pitch while grimacing at whatever it is we are trying to do. We've spent so much money and now hearing we have to rebuild the squad again? Is next year going to be another season of transition then? We need some serious fires to be lit because if we don't get our act together we could end up staying in this mediocre league for a long time.
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A season of treading water for me.
To spend the sort of money we have and be closer to the bottom than the top is unacceptable. We don't score enough goals (despite spending fortunes on strikers who excelled at their previous clubs). There is still not identity to how we play, and Bruce needs to get that sorted for next season and hit the ground running if we are to have any chance of being in the promotion chase - the last we weeks it looks like he's been "winging it". Defensively we look OK, but we still need more depth in the middle of defense. Elphick has been a major disappointment, and I'm still not convinced with Baker moving forward to next season. The 'keeper situation is a must. Gollini and Johnstone both looked OK at times, but poor at others, and neither has convinced me that me that we don't need to look for an experienced 'keeper for next season.
However, the seems much more unity around the place off the field than 12 months ago. No fighting among ourselves, protests against an absentee owner and his "old pals act" of Fox, Reilly and Almstadt. The Dr and his team have clearly recognized a need to make the fans feel part of the club again, and I think they have done well in that sense. The emergence of Andre Green is another positive. I like the look of him as a player and he seems to be a pretty level headed lad who hasn't let himself get carried away.
Very much work in progress, but there is still MUCH more to do. Not just to get back to the Premier League, but to have a chance of re-establishing ourselves there.
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Well at least I can now concentrate on Warwickshire in the summer.
Oh shite.
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Agree with OMV, we needed to have the mother of all clear outs, we didn't and have addded some more problems to the squad.
I don't think we look any better equipped to get into the top 2 than we did at the end of last season such has been the mis management of the playing side of the club.
We are still a mess.
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One word - Disappointing
Not convinced by Bruce and long term getting us an attractive team. However, willing to give benefit of the doubt and go with it. One things for certain, he either slots the final pieces into "his team" and we push on, or I'm left with no doubt that he WILL be replaced during the next season if things are not going to plan. Not ideal but let's just enjoy the summer and see he things play out. Huddersfield did not look anywhere near the side they are now this time last season so things can turn around.
Player wise for me we need;
GK situation sorting
Centre back partner for Chester (Baker can take Elphicks place in the squad)
An alternate CM option for Jedinak
A wide man
Another forward
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Next season is the most important in the history of the club.
I agree. If we fail to get promoted Dr Xia will be offloading us and we will be in limbo for a long time to come looking for new buyer to save us.
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Any highlights on tv tonight?
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We are a puzzling mess. Today we outplayed the Champions in waiting with ten men, refused two penalties and had a dodgy one awarded against us with a red card. But to do it we had to bring on a young player who has been overlooked all season and would not have been on the bench if we did not have so many walking wounded.
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
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Good stats Paul and those clearly illustrate Bruce's limitations.
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
Yes he does, without a doubt.
But bloody hell, he has also got to find a way where we win 10 away games next season (if he is still here).
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
Yes he does, without a doubt.
But bloody hell, he has also got to find a way where we win 10 away games next season (if he is still here).
The biggest problem away from home is 14 goals in 23 games. You just don't win games if you can't score (that's comfortably the wirst in the league by the way, with Rotherham on 17 being the only other team under 20. Bruce is responsible for 12 in 17 from that so again he did a little better than RDM but it's still pathetic.
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Any highlights on tv tonight?
Channel 5 thingy was on at 8pm.
You can watch the league one PO highlights at half 11 though. ;)
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http://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-brighton/358650
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Angry, 12 months on and walking towards Villa Park with my youngest son I couldn't believe that for all the players we've offloaded , two completely new management teams and the best talent recruited in the January transfer window we could ever have hoped for that we look so clueless. I think Dr Tony's tweets tonight sum up the expectations for next year- he wasn't slow to wield the axe on RDM , I hope he does the same to Bruce if we're not top three or thereabouts end of October. Thank you Dr Tony for your backing .
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Dr. Tony XiaVerified account @Dr_TonyXia 9h9 hours ago
End of the season. A lot2do this summer as we almost wasted last one. Need focus on how2form a team rather always up2great individuals.#UTV
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Jesus that is a damning statement.
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Jesus that is a damning statement.
He didn't come to run a Championship side so the pressure will be on to get it right next season. He'll be blunt because so far he's got little to show for the massive investment he's made since buying us.
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
Not that much of a Bruce fan myself, but this has been a problem for several years now.
2016/2017: Conceded the first goal 19 times, won 1, drew 4, lost 14.
2015/2016: Conceded the first goal 28 times, won 0, drew 4, lost 24.
2014/2015: Conceded the first goal 20 times, won 1, drew 1, lost 18.
2013/2014: Conceded the first goal 22 times, won 4, drew 1, lost 17.
2012/2013: Conceded the first goal 17 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 13.
2011/2012: Conceded the first goal 16 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 12.
(from soccerstats.com)
If this is the KEY stat from this season, it should be a key stat from previous seasons as well. I think there's a pattern emerging from those stats.
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
Not that much of a Bruce fan myself, but this has been a problem for several years now.
2016/2017: Conceded the first goal 19 times, won 1, drew 4, lost 14.
2015/2016: Conceded the first goal 28 times, won 0, drew 4, lost 24.
2014/2015: Conceded the first goal 20 times, won 1, drew 1, lost 18.
2013/2014: Conceded the first goal 22 times, won 4, drew 1, lost 17.
2012/2013: Conceded the first goal 17 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 13.
2011/2012: Conceded the first goal 16 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 12.
(from soccerstats.com)
If this is the KEY stat from this season, it should be a key stat from previous seasons as well. I think there's a pattern emerging from those stats.
Indeed it is, but the difference is that all the others were against sides full of world class players. The point is that we're supposed to believe that Bruce can get us automatic promotion next year but in truth he's failing in the same ways as many of our previous managers, most of whom we agree aren't good enough.
It also points back to the fact that I've been saying for years that changing the culture of the club by developing a style is much more important than the manager but we just won't learn. If you pick random managers and adapt to their style you're always going to be in a state of transition and that's what really needs to change. We need to identify, now, how we want to be playing in 5-6 years time and then make every decision on the basis that it is a step along that path. Bruce getting us back up via the playoffs this season could be worked to fit but giving him another season is a move in the wrong direction in my opinion.
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Very underwhelming season in which we've looked very unconvincing for most of it. Lot of work to do over the summer, but have nagging doubts whether Bruce is going to be able to turn things around.
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Three times in five minutes in the first half we had the ball on our half forward line after several passes it ended back with Baker, I think Bruce was apoplectic you could hear him yelling on the tube, this sums up the Villa this season for me, I believe that their is little difference in Brighton and us except in the method of play.
I think Bruce has a problem getting players to follow instructions if that's the case we are in trouble.
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
Not that much of a Bruce fan myself, but this has been a problem for several years now.
2016/2017: Conceded the first goal 19 times, won 1, drew 4, lost 14.
2015/2016: Conceded the first goal 28 times, won 0, drew 4, lost 24.
2014/2015: Conceded the first goal 20 times, won 1, drew 1, lost 18.
2013/2014: Conceded the first goal 22 times, won 4, drew 1, lost 17.
2012/2013: Conceded the first goal 17 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 13.
2011/2012: Conceded the first goal 16 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 12.
(from soccerstats.com)
If this is the KEY stat from this season, it should be a key stat from previous seasons as well. I think there's a pattern emerging from those stats.
Indeed it is, but the difference is that all the others were against sides full of world class players. The point is that we're supposed to believe that Bruce can get us automatic promotion next year but in truth he's failing in the same ways as many of our previous managers, most of whom we agree aren't good enough.
It also points back to the fact that I've been saying for years that changing the culture of the club by developing a style is much more important than the manager but we just won't learn. If you pick random managers and adapt to their style you're always going to be in a state of transition and that's what really needs to change. We need to identify, now, how we want to be playing in 5-6 years time and then make every decision on the basis that it is a step along that path. Bruce getting us back up via the playoffs this season could be worked to fit but giving him another season is a move in the wrong direction in my opinion.
Teams full of world-class players? Really? Like West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke, Leicester last year? That's moving the goal-posts a bit IMO.
You don't believe Bruce is good enough to get us promoted next year, which is fair enough. I'm hoping he is - if he's still here next season. But posting a stat from this year only and presenting it as the key stat for this season when the problem of heads dropping after conceding has been a well-known problem for several years comes across as looking for a stick to beat the current manager with.
As for your second paragraph and the need to have a style/playing ethos and hiring managers/coaching team that will fit the playing style and the squad available - I wholeheartedly agree.
But the iffy bit about that is that it might require appointing a DoF and demoting the manager to head coach, which hasn't worked very well in the UK thus far.
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The manager sets the team up to play a certain way and you cannot deny that the low scoring is a result of the manager's tactics.
Defences are generally very poor in this leave if you attack them. That's why you see a lot of 3 and 4 goals scored by teams and not just the ones at the top. However, to score more than 2, you have to set up in a certain way.
We have a good defensive record but that is generally because we have so many players back behind the ball. Yes, get players back behind the ball when you are defending but not all of the time. Breaking from defence to attack is a key part of the game, something that Bruce doesn't have a clue about.
A DoF is not necessary if you appoint like minded managers to continue in the way you want to play and that is what Paul_e said.
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Last season we stank are way out of the top league due to not investing and 6 or 7 years of total mismanagement from all involved, so this year we are 13th in what I think is universally agreed is a shit standard of football, after spending a bucket load, pick and mix buying from other clubs around us, he's scored plenty we will have him, he's got the most assists in the league, we will have him. One manager for 11 games and then the existing one for 35, if this was under Lerner we would be getting the pitch forks out and I am not blaming Dr Tony here new to the country, the business, where he needs to look is not just Bruce, his whole coaching staff but also Round and Wyness.
If the club is to find an identity it must show in all strategic decisions and our transfer policy needs to be part of this, at the moment the transfer policy as the lack of pattern of play seems to be getting made up on the hoof.
They have reconnected with the support, but they also need to know the support want to see hopefully an expansive style of play, continuity of that style through all levels at the club, as above we need an identity and Steve Bruce will not give us that or at least not a positive identity.
Some have stated on here it may take 2 or 3 years, we have not got that time and also that there have been glimpses of a style being formed, glimpses from Bruce over a 35 game period, that's only 3 games short of a full prem season, i.e. once or twice maybe three times and funny enough two of those glimpses against the same team, is not good enough, Bruce's score for the season 3 maybe 3.5.
Don't waste from now to October / November please Villa.
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That is why we dominated Brighton with 10 men yesterday. The substitute he brought on to replace runsalot Hogan, through naivety, inexperience or old fashioned football ability - Davis - started to run forward and with his hold-up skills allowed Lansbury to play a more marauding role higher up the pitch. Our downfall for years has been a negative mindset. Not losing is more important than winning. We pack our own half and pass sideways or backwards so that our midfield players very rarely score goals and our penalty area is constantly like the Alamo. Pressurised deep lying midfielders are harassed to back passes to the goalkeeper and it becomes fifty fifty hoofball.
Dean Saunders put his finger on it last week when he said Steve Bruce buys big defenders who like to tackle and head the ball then goes out a buys four strikers. The actual engine room of victories, the midfield have to fit in as best they can rather than running the show which is their job.
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Totally agree Brian, Bruce does not do midfield, but as I stated above Wyness, Round have a responsibility here,just because Bruce asks he should not automatically get and if Bruce does not like that tough, we are not Hull, Birmingham, Sunderland, Wigan, they might have tryed to kill my expectations over the last god knows how many years, but they hav'nt, we are Aston Villa and deserve better than what we are getting.
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Absolutely Kuwait. I was really surprised yesterday at the level of acceptance and resignation expressed by many to whom I spoke before, after and during the game. Even Mr Woodhall from whom many, myself included, have come to expect acerbic and forensic examinations of our situation, generously summed it up that the season past was a holiday now the work has to be done.
Far be it from me to disagree but in support of your view Kuwait, that that workload MUST include a seismic shift at board level to stamp out the profligate waste of the owner's money on players who look good on paper but in reality are either deeply flawed or fundamentally uncoachable or both. There must also be an end to players like Richards, Gabby and Bacuna blocking game time to young players trying to prove themselves.
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As I stated earlier Brian, Keinan Davis in a 30 minute cameo showed more than I've seen from all strikers bar Kodjia in the last 30 months.
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slightly hyperbolic - he did well in some respects and certainly made more of a contribution than Hogan who looks to me like he's not going to make an impression at Villa. Davis certainly held the ball up well and brought other players into threatening positions by doing so, but had Kodjia occupied the same space, he would certainly have converted at least one of the lad's two chances and won us the game. I'm praying that Kodjia comes back the player he was - despite his faults - pre injury.
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i disagree, missing chances was down to inexperience but his all round play was the sort of thin that's been missing since Benteke left, we had link up play, we had movement off the ball, we had a focal point. I've liked the look of Davis for a while, he's strong and won't be bullied but he also has decent technique.
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well I disagree - we need pace and more pace...and Davis doesn't have any. I want everyone in a forward position to be like Billy Whizz.
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Teams full of world-class players? Really? Like West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke, Leicester last year? That's moving the goal-posts a bit IMO.
You don't believe Bruce is good enough to get us promoted next year, which is fair enough. I'm hoping he is - if he's still here next season. But posting a stat from this year only and presenting it as the key stat for this season when the problem of heads dropping after conceding has been a well-known problem for several years comes across as looking for a stick to beat the current manager with.
As for your second paragraph and the need to have a style/playing ethos and hiring managers/coaching team that will fit the playing style and the squad available - I wholeheartedly agree.
But the iffy bit about that is that it might require appointing a DoF and demoting the manager to head coach, which hasn't worked very well in the UK thus far.
I stand by it as it was in relation to the league we're in and highlighting the difference in quality of opposition.
As for looking for a stick to beat the manager with, that's not the case at all. We all know that to get back up and try to achieve the goals set our by Xia we need to turn the ship around, it's a theme that has been present all through the threads on here, you can also look for stop the rot which is used in the same context. My point is that whilst we have won more games the fundamental problem that underpins why we've been shit for so long hasn't been addressed at all and until it is we're going to be stuck in this league.
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
Yes he does, without a doubt.
But bloody hell, he has also got to find a way where we win 10 away games next season (if he is still here).
The biggest problem away from home is 14 goals in 23 games. You just don't win games if you can't score (that's comfortably the wirst in the league by the way, with Rotherham on 17 being the only other team under 20. Bruce is responsible for 12 in 17 from that so again he did a little better than RDM but it's still pathetic.
Our biggest problem is scoring goals whether at home or away. When we beat Rotherham 3 - 0 earlier in the season I remember their manager stating after after the game "We won't be the last league side to come here this season and concede 3." I'm sure it was said in respect to us as a club and our standing and the resources available to us. That we didn't manage it again tells you where we're at.
WE DON'T SCORE ENOUGH. Whether that's down to quality of players, the system we play, tactics, luck, belief or whatever who knows but we need to get it sorted. Or, more to the point, Bruce needs to get it sorted. He could start by getting the team to play something approaching decent football which might rectify it to an extent.
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We definitely need someone who can hold the ball up front every bit as much as we need some pace in the team. Anyway, brain, i think the acceptance that you're speaking of is more that people just want(ed) this season to be over and be done with. No more games to feel frustrated by and no more Bruce - "that's the worst I've seen and it's not good enough" quotes. I just want to stop being disappointed and then after a month or so I want to start feeling those early stirrings of excitement and optimism. With or without Bruce.
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Think I am in a minority as things turned out in not being too disappointed. This time last year, post relegation, I believed there was a strong probability that the club would drop straight through into League 1 under the then Lerner ownership. The club had been spiralling out of control from the very top for at least 8 seasons - I include MON's final year.
(Before the start of last season I heard BFR on the radio say he thought the Villa could drop straight through).
Thankfully then came the change ownership. Whilst it seems disappointing that the huge sums spent have not seen a much better league position it serves to illustrate how bad the set up at Bodymoor had become. No doubt all is not yet right there and the close season must be used to address and finally correct this problem. Nevertheless some stability has been restored and we can but hope it is permanent and not a temporary fix before the downward slide resumes.
Given a constructive and positive close season I am hopeful of a promotion push next time round. The last 2 occasions the club have won promotion from this division Villa have been runners up; in 1988 and 1975. So whilst promotion is the aim is it too much to ask to go up as Champions? After all it is now 21 years since a trophy was won - the longest drought in the club's history.
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I don't count the Championship as a trophy, sorry Nelson.
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The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...
Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).
From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table. As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.
He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.
Yes he does, without a doubt.
But bloody hell, he has also got to find a way where we win 10 away games next season (if he is still here).
The biggest problem away from home is 14 goals in 23 games. You just don't win games if you can't score (that's comfortably the wirst in the league by the way, with Rotherham on 17 being the only other team under 20. Bruce is responsible for 12 in 17 from that so again he did a little better than RDM but it's still pathetic.
Our biggest problem is scoring goals whether at home or away. When we beat Rotherham 3 - 0 earlier in the season I remember their manager stating after after the game "We won't be the last league side to come here this season and concede 3." I'm sure it was said in respect to us as a club and our standing and the resources available to us. That we didn't manage it again tells you where we're at.
WE DON'T SCORE ENOUGH. Whether that's down to quality of players, the system we play, tactics, luck, belief or whatever who knows but we need to get it sorted. Or, more to the point, Bruce needs to get it sorted. He could start by getting the team to play something approaching decent football which might rectify it to an extent.
Just being pedantic I am sure but we did score three at home to Cardiff. I agree with everything else you've said though.
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That is why we dominated Brighton with 10 men yesterday. The substitute he brought on to replace runsalot Hogan, through naivety, inexperience or old fashioned football ability - Davis - started to run forward and with his hold-up skills allowed Lansbury to play a more marauding role higher up the pitch. Our downfall for years has been a negative mindset. Not losing is more important than winning. We pack our own half and pass sideways or backwards so that our midfield players very rarely score goals and our penalty area is constantly like the Alamo. Pressurised deep lying midfielders are harassed to back passes to the goalkeeper and it becomes fifty fifty hoofball.
Dean Saunders put his finger on it last week when he said Steve Bruce buys big defenders who like to tackle and head the ball then goes out a buys four strikers. The actual engine room of victories, the midfield have to fit in as best they can rather than running the show which is their job.
Nail on head for me
Without Kodjia and Jedinak yesterdayit gave the midfield the movement it needed and both Hourinane and Lansbury getting forward. Although Jedinak is great to bring onif we have to close a game out - to have him as a starter means we are set up defensively and are reliant on him to set the tempo - which is awful
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Brighton play 4 4 2 and show that the best form of defence is to attack and have possession. We sit far too deep, pass too slow, so when we do play with two in the middle they easily get over run. I think SB needs to have a rethink and change his style, though he's probably too long in the tooth to do this.
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I thought we were ok today. That's twice we've made Brighton look very very ordinary.
On the season, probably about right, solid home form but away has been little short of emabarrasing. Issues for me are the inconsistency of far too many of our team and squad.
Johnstone - if we can get him then go for it hugely more confident than when he arrived. Need a decent back up.
Hutton - cult hero maybe but needs to be replaced. Happy to give De Laet a chance and been quite impressed with Bree.
Chester - excellent consistent and my POTY.
Baker - mid table championship player nowhere near good enough for where we need to be. For all his wholeheartedness he's a liability with the ball. Replace.
Elphick, Richards - get rid.
Taylor - been really impressed, settled well and very consistent. Amavi can go as he's just not consistent in his play or execution.
Adomah - another inconsistent player, we can't carry players like this in this division. Replace.
Jedinak - solid and excellent, keep and buy a backup.
Hourihane - hasn't settled yet but still not been given enough licence to get forwards.when he has has proved dangerous and been unlucky
Not to score more. Keep.
Lansbury - needs to dominate games
More has the ability needs to show it. Keep.
Gardner - I'm afraid it's over he just can't cut it.
Bacuna - another of the inconsistent ones does so many good things then ruins it with lackadaisical and sloppy passing, he's been really stroppy the last few months as well. Replace.
Green - keep so disappointed he picked up that injury as he'd just started to find the confidence to nail down a place. Looks like he filling out as well and looks a more muscular and physical Scott Sinclair.
Grealish- keep, we know the bad but when this lad plays we've no one like him.
Kodjia - love him, great workrate, expect the unexpected, and ability to fashion something from
Nothing. Keep.
Agbonlahor - replace
McCormack - replace
Hogan - replace
Davis - showed more in 30 mins today than the 3 above have in months. Keep and promote.
RHM - keep
Anyone on loan - sell.
By my reckoning we need a back up keeper, 2 or 3 new centre backs, a cover left back, central midfielder, 2 pacy wide options and a striker to replace the feckless, injury prone, inconsistent, poorly executing players we have.
Bruce - I'm really torn, we proved today we can play football, when we upped the tempo and pace at the start of the second half it was like a breath of fresh air and even going down to 10 men didn't dampen our intent. He's got until the end of October for me, no excuses for anything less than in and around the top 2 with the squad he's had and what's likely to happen this summer.
Absolutely spot on.
The last 30 mins was the most revealing segment of play all season, and one to optimistic about too.
Play with a central forward who can hold the ball up and bring the midfielders into play and we look like a far more viable proposition. I can see Kodija fitting in with that system as well, so if the kid ain't quite ready then we need to get someone similar (and fund him with selling Hogan and McCormack).
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With Davis up front we actually looked like a team. He was raw and perhaps could have done better with his chance, but compared to when Gestede murdered that role it was a breath of fresh air.
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I think all the final 30 minutes yesterday is relevant only in relation to the benefit of a positive mindset, rather than laying any particular blueprint about how we need to set up tactics/personnel wise.
I can't say I agree at all with this notion that we apparently need 6-10 more new players this off-season, because that'd be just a repeat of the same old shit that happened this season - it's absolutely no coincidence that the two particularly bad stretches came while a whole bunch of new players were trying to figure out how to play together. Yes, there are areas which need improving, and certainly should aim to be filled with a small number of signings, but it really fucks me with this notion that any minor area of discomfort has to be fixed by chucking a pile more money at it, instead of figuring out ways to improve internally.
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I think all the final 30 minutes yesterday is relevant only in relation to the benefit of a positive mindset, rather than laying any particular blueprint about how we need to set up tactics/personnel wise.
I can't say I agree at all with this notion that we apparently need 6-10 more new players this off-season, because that'd be just a repeat of the same old shit that happened this season - it's absolutely no coincidence that the two particularly bad stretches came while a whole bunch of new players were trying to figure out how to play together. Yes, there are areas which need improving, and certainly should aim to be filled with a small number of signings, but it really fucks me with this notion that any minor area of discomfort has to be fixed by chucking a pile more money at it, instead of figuring out ways to improve internally.
Yes and no.
Agreed - wholesale changes bring instability and uncertainty of how to set up.
As for the style of play. I'm sure it is the blueprint. Of course you need a positive mindset, but the problem has been that the midfield can't commit forward for fear of being out of position if the forwards don't hold the ball up. The brief spell of play yesterday showed that if you get them in the game in the final 3rd they look threatening and capable of scoring goals - and that's what's been missing all season.
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I think all the final 30 minutes yesterday is relevant only in relation to the benefit of a positive mindset, rather than laying any particular blueprint about how we need to set up tactics/personnel wise.
I can't say I agree at all with this notion that we apparently need 6-10 more new players this off-season, because that'd be just a repeat of the same old shit that happened this season - it's absolutely no coincidence that the two particularly bad stretches came while a whole bunch of new players were trying to figure out how to play together. Yes, there are areas which need improving, and certainly should aim to be filled with a small number of signings, but it really fucks me with this notion that any minor area of discomfort has to be fixed by chucking a pile more money at it, instead of figuring out ways to improve internally.
Yes and no.
Agreed - wholesale changes bring instability and uncertainty of how to set up.
As for the style of play. I'm sure it is the blueprint. Of course you need a positive mindset, but the problem has been that the midfield can't commit forward for fear of being out of position if the forwards don't hold the ball up. The brief spell of play yesterday showed that if you get them in the game in the final 3rd they look threatening and capable of scoring goals - and that's what's been missing all season.
I dunno, I feel like at this moment, it's a situation where even if we did have somebody who could hold the ball up properly, we'd still do fuck all because we literally don't know how to maintain a positive attacking mindset. Obviously that's speculation since we haven't really had a forward who can do that properly, but I think it's going to be a case of having faith in the ability of Jedinak + a settled back 4 (hopefully, with a CB partner for Chester) to provide the necessary cover, rather than buying at the other end of the pitch, in terms of a strike partner for Kodjia.
Also, I feel like too often this season, we've tried defending for 65 minutes and attacking in the last 25; if only we could flip that around.
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One of the many things we have failed to do this season is exert and maintain pressure on the opposition defence.
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Been on some great trips to places I thought I would never see the Villa play, and I'm glad to give my liver a rest.
However, the football has been wank for the majority of the time.
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I have a feeling we may see Jedinak at centre half next season - I'm not sure he can do another 46 games in midfield. Bruce has hinted at that.
It would be good to get a more mobile holding midfield player and release Hourihane and Lansbury further forward. Both looked much happier in more familiar roles yesterday. No question they have goals in them as well.
I too was impressed with Davis. He unsettled them with his aggression and strength with his back to goal. As soon as the ball began to stick, we had much more movement and passed better. He may well be a find for us.
Pace out wide is also key. Adomah flatters to deceive but it was shame Green missed the last dozen games. He will play a big part next season hopefully.
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17 player turn over before we add to the squad? No thank you.
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I don't want loads of players in. Money isn't the fix to our problems. We need a lump up front. Murphy at Newcastle would do just fine. Scores goals with service, holds it up well and gives the midfield a chance to play. We look a million times better when Lansbury and Hourihane are playing centrally and further up the pitcH. We also need to score a lot more from set pieces next season.
This year has been shite and we can't start next year so half arsed or playing so defensively. We should aiming for a goal a game from set pieces. It won't happen, but should do in 30 games.
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That is why we dominated Brighton with 10 men yesterday. The substitute he brought on to replace runsalot Hogan, through naivety, inexperience or old fashioned football ability - Davis - started to run forward and with his hold-up skills allowed Lansbury to play a more marauding role higher up the pitch. Our downfall for years has been a negative mindset. Not losing is more important than winning. We pack our own half and pass sideways or backwards so that our midfield players very rarely score goals and our penalty area is constantly like the Alamo. Pressurised deep lying midfielders are harassed to back passes to the goalkeeper and it becomes fifty fifty hoofball.
Dean Saunders put his finger on it last week when he said Steve Bruce buys big defenders who like to tackle and head the ball then goes out a buys four strikers. The actual engine room of victories, the midfield have to fit in as best they can rather than running the show which is their job.
Nail on head for me
Without Kodjia and Jedinak yesterdayit gave the midfield the movement it needed and both Hourinane and Lansbury getting forward. Although Jedinak is great to bring onif we have to close a game out - to have him as a starter means we are set up defensively and are reliant on him to set the tempo - which is awful
I can see Jedinak playing a bit more at CB next season.
We'll still see him at DM away from home but I too don't really see the need for him to always play that posiiton in every home game.
We really need to impose ourselves on the opposition much more next season so surely we can get away with Hourihane-Lansbury against bottom half teams who come just to defend?
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Been on some great trips to places I thought I would never see the Villa play, and I'm glad to give my liver a rest.
However, the football has been wank for the majority of the time.
Agree wholeheartedly Lee. I won't miss the weekly beer intake. And before anyone tells me I don't have to drink to watch the Villa, yes I do.
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Bruce saved his job with the blues win, I'd give him pre season, another window of shuffling and dealing then three months. If we're not gelling by mid autumn then it's time to go.
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Bruce saved his job with the blues win, I'd give him pre season, another window of shuffling and dealing then three months. If we're not gelling by mid autumn then it's time to go.
Bruce beating one of the worst teams in one of the worst leagues is nowhere near good enough to keep his job. Autumn will be too late, he should go now
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The other issue I have about playing with another striker, which we've already seen, to an extent, with Hogan-Kodjia, and even if that striker can hold the ball up, is that you either need to play a straight 4-4-2 (which neuters Lansbury and Hourihane, since they have to split time between defending and attacking, which is exactly the problem everyone says we need to resolve), or a 4-4-2 diamond, which leaves us short of width since we don't have fullbacks who are any good going forward. The third option is to shift Kodjia out wide in a 4-3-3, which again seems entirely counterproductive.
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The season that was over before it even got going.
We fumbled the summer - from managerial appointment to transfers - and never quite recovered. We looked complacent and naive in the way we approached games and the players we signed and we've still not shaken it off.
I retain we're not that far away from being capable challengers - if there's one thing we've learned it's that you don't even have to be that good to be amongst the promotion pack in this league but you do have to grind out results and if we can start to do more of that away from home while continuing to be solid at home, it will be enough. I don't think we're far off being decent defensively but we're going to need to score more goals - if Bruce can unlock more of the potential we have while adding a select few wisely then we'll be back amongst the proper league in 12 months. If.
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The other issue I have about playing with another striker, which we've already seen, to an extent, with Hogan-Kodjia, and even if that striker can hold the ball up, is that you either need to play a straight 4-4-2 (which neuters Lansbury and Hourihane, since they have to split time between defending and attacking, which is exactly the problem everyone says we need to resolve), or a 4-4-2 diamond, which leaves us short of width since we don't have fullbacks who are any good going forward. The third option is to shift Kodjia out wide in a 4-3-3, which again seems entirely counterproductive.
This points out the dilemma. Maybe it's the churn on the managers, but we've ended up with quite a few square pegs for round holes.
Maybe it's the fashionable way but is 3-4-2-1 our best bet? The problem is that full backs aren't right.
Something like?:
GK
Chester - Jedinak - Baker
RM/RB Lansbury Hourihane LM/LB
Kodija Grealish/Green
AN Other/Davies
Sorting out the majority of Amavi, Hutton, Bree, De Laet, Taylor, McCormack and Hogan could make it self financing.
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Ugh. It just wasnt good enough was it? If I was Xia I would be angry. He stepped up, two managers and many players put in a half effort.
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The football under Bruce has in the main been awful, even when we have won, I have walked away from the ground and not enjoyed watching what I have seen. Bruce for me will need to convince Dr Tony and the board that he is the right manager to get us out of this league.
I cannot see much money being spent in the summer unless we get a few players out.
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The other issue I have about playing with another striker, which we've already seen, to an extent, with Hogan-Kodjia, and even if that striker can hold the ball up, is that you either need to play a straight 4-4-2 (which neuters Lansbury and Hourihane, since they have to split time between defending and attacking, which is exactly the problem everyone says we need to resolve), or a 4-4-2 diamond, which leaves us short of width since we don't have fullbacks who are any good going forward. The third option is to shift Kodjia out wide in a 4-3-3, which again seems entirely counterproductive.
This points out the dilemma. Maybe it's the churn on the managers, but we've ended up with quite a few square pegs for round holes.
Maybe it's the fashionable way but is 3-4-2-1 our best bet? The problem is that full backs aren't right.
Something like?:
GK
Chester - Jedinak - Baker
RM/RB Lansbury Hourihane LM/LB
Kodija Grealish/Green
AN Other/Davies
Sorting out the majority of Amavi, Hutton, Bree, De Laet, Taylor, McCormack and Hogan could make it self financing.
If you are going to play 3 at the back you need pace in there to cover the full width and tracking runners. Those 3 are just about the three slowest players at the Club.
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Wouldn't 3-4-2-1 still have this issue with Lansbury and Hourihane sitting too far back to make an impact in the final third?
As far as I'm concerned, the non-negotiable parts is a three-man midfield with those two ahead of Jedinak; Chester as a CB, and Kodjia as close to the other team's goal as possible. Work out everything around that, unless Messi decides he fancies a stint in Brum, in which case we can maybe think about drawing up something different.
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I can't believe people are even thinking that there is an appetite at the club to get rid of Bruce. They reaffirmed his position when we were on the horrendous run this season then we went on a winning run so I cannot see how we would now be looking to sack him. Unfortunately, we have somewhat nailed our colours to the mast with the money he has already spent and no doubt will spend in the summer. I do agree that if we do not get off to a good start after say ten games next season then as the spectre of financial meltdown becomes more of a possibility then opinions at the club could change.
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The start of the season did for us. But we needed to re find the winning feeling. Our record for four years prior had hurt belief. Football results are as much driven by momentum in my book, and we have had players coming into a dressing room of for want of a better word losers. Going on runs of wins didn't ultimately turn our season, but at least players started to remember what it was like. I would have liked us to keep on the "gas" a bit more towards the end of the season, we were not going to make play offs, but momentum into next year is now key. We need to be firing at the start of next season from the off, not sputtering like rabbits in the headlights like this season.
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Wouldn't 3-4-2-1 still have this issue with Lansbury and Hourihane sitting too far back to make an impact in the final third?
As far as I'm concerned, the non-negotiable parts is a three-man midfield with those two ahead of Jedinak; Chester as a CB, and Kodjia as close to the other team's goal as possible. Work out everything around that, unless Messi decides he fancies a stint in Brum, in which case we can maybe think about drawing up something different.
Fair analysis (and also the comment re. the centre backs being too slow).
The problem with what you're saying is that we end up playing more or less the same way we played this season.
For that to work, we need to upgrade Adomah and find another central striker or attacking midfielder on the left that Kodjia can work with.
We've already tried McCormack, Hogan, Grealish, Green, Gabby and Gestede (briefly) without much success - especially away from home
Do we stick or twist?
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Last Oct I was just about ok with the appointment of Bruce on the basis of his track record at this level. He seemed like a good fit and he looked like the man to stop the rot and get us organised. On the back of the 15/16 season and all that had gone before, plus the drift under RDM, we needed stability. To be fair he seemed to be meeting the brief for a while, and even as late as the turn-around game v Derby in February, which stopped the run of defeats and set us up for a run of 7 wins in 9, I was more or less on side. But after we had obviously stabilised, I wanted to see something more expansive and expressive which would play to the strengths of the better players in the squad and get us on the front foot in games. It never happened. Even during that run, against, for example, QPR at home, we looked mentally weak against a mediocre team, conceding time, possession and territory in a game that we should have been able to win in a canter. So when the mini-downturn came, v Reading, Fulham etc, it was no great surprise. SB has finished on a low note for me. I'm sure he will stay, so we had better get used to it and get behind him, but he's skating on thin ice. He needs an improvement in results and style, and he needs it from the very start of next season. Otherwise he'll be gone by the time we put the clocks back. The canary in the coal mine for me is Leandro Bacuna, a terrible player who should be nowhere near the first XI. If he appears on SB's first team sheet in August, I predict SB will be gone by October.
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Agreed re. Bacuna.
The only thing that's ever likely to stop me going up the Villa is to hear that Bacuna, Amava and Adomah are playing together in midfield.
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We need to get our shit together. We play either Millwall or Bradford twice next season.
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We need to get our shit together. We play either Millwall or Bradford twice next season.
I'm sure we can beat Bradford over a couple of games....
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We need to get our shit together. We play either Millwall or Bradford twice next season.
I'm sure we can beat Bradford over a couple of games....
Cough.... .
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This is the side that played in the first game of the season..
Gollini, Hutton, Elphick, Baker, Cissokho, Westwood, Gardner, Bacuna, McCormack, Ayew, Gestede.
Only 2 of those started the last game, 4 have gone, 2 gone on loan, the rest back up players only. Subs included Richards, Tshibola and Okore. The turnover of players during the season is pretty remarkable.
I'm not a big Bruce fan but the club don't need a big upheaval again and another large turnover of players. I was generally pleased with the players we got in Jan albeit most have taken time to settle. He should finish his rebuilding in the summer and find the formation and style to fit.
I remain hopeful we will get back next season.
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We need to get our shit together. We play either Millwall or Bradford twice next season.
I'm sure we can beat Bradford over a couple of games....
Cough.... .
Would much prefer them to come up. There would be some spice to that game next season.
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We need to get our shit together. We play either Millwall or Bradford twice next season.
I'm sure we can beat Bradford over a couple of games....
Cough.... .
We did beat them at Villa Park, albeit by playing 8 centre forwards.
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All I can say is I've enjoyed this season much more than the last 7. So much so I've bought 2 season tickets for next season - the last time I did that was 1981-2!
Now I'm off to see my therapist! ;D
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My therapist has suggested that avoid this site until July. Have a good Summer chaps!
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He'll be back, they always are ;)
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All I can say is I've enjoyed this season much more than the last 7. So much so I've bought 2 season tickets for next season - the last time I did that was 1981-2!
Now I'm off to see my therapist! ;D
Albeit the football has been tosh in most parts I must admit i'm in no great rush to go back to the bloated, overhyped Premiership
I have not watched a single game on tv or even MOTD this season - and feel better for it
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I can't see there being wholesale changes over the summer.
We need another goalscorer as one of them has gone all fat and insolent another one doesn't look like he's going to do it a Villa (what do we do to these players who can score for fun at Barnsley or wherever and then turn to shit at Villa?) and Jimmy Danger is crook until September/October time.
The barcodes and Fulham banged in 85 goals each, we hit just over half that, pathetic really, we also conceded more than we scored, but I'm less bothered by that as I think our defence will get better and better especially you'd think under Bruce, our problem is scoring and has been for a good while. Sort it out Brucey.
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I'm not sure where it's posted on here but over the last few seasons, the stats show we have gone behind in games something like 123 times and lost 96 of those matches. Pretty awful. This season is bad enough, the stats for last season diabolical. you can't change that overnight. But I do think Bruce has had half a season to assess, change, and now he has the summer to kick on. If we aren't top 6 at Xmas, then you'd have to say move him on assuming the right person is ready in waiting.
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hookeysmith
you mean you have not watched those in depth analysis by legendary players like messrs jenas, kilbane murphy etc
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I'm not sure where it's posted on here but over the last few seasons, the stats show we have gone behind in games something like 123 times and lost 96 of those matches. Pretty awful. This season is bad enough, the stats for last season diabolical. you can't change that overnight. But I do think Bruce has had half a season to assess, change, and now he has the summer to kick on. If we aren't top 6 at Xmas, then you'd have to say move him on assuming the right person is ready in waiting.
That's the bit that makes me concerned by the idea that we give him the first 3 months and then see. We either need to commit to the idea that he's here for the season regardless (unless we're bottom 6 or something silly) or replace him now because getting in the right person in December is so much harder. The real problem that I have with it is that he is a consequence of that same problem, he was a quick fix easy option when we should've taken a little more time in the summer and got it right then.
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hookeysmith
you mean you have not watched those in depth analysis by legendary players like messrs jenas, kilbane murphy etc
Correct or the squealing Carrogher et al
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hookeysmith
you mean you have not watched those in depth analysis by legendary players like messrs jenas, kilbane murphy etc
Correct or the squealing Carrogher et al
So what did you make of the Channel 5 coverage and and analysis?
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I honestly don't think the five coverage is that terrible in a it does what it says on the tin way.
They show decent highlights of the Sky games and have to cram in 30 games in 80 minutes. I like it on at 9 aswell rather than staying up to 2am to watch it when the BBC had it.
People used to whinge about MOTD coverage so not really sure what the ideal tv coverage is in some minds given how terrible we usually are on tv.
Talking of TV and pundits though, it's just occured to me that Holloway got panned in August for saying we'd finish 16th this season and we've finished the grand total of 3 places higher. He said it even before we'd spent 60 odd million aswell!
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Think one of the many questions about our current Bruce signings are, will he stick with Hourihane. Lansbury, and Bjarnason ? who have all been at best average ....Will he go for two natural wingers to supply Kodjia and Hogan ? Think he has got to completely change his system to accommodate the current squad ......
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Think one of the many questions about our current Bruce signings are, will he stick with Hourihane. Lansbury, and Bjarnason ? who have all been at best average ....Will he go for two natural wingers to supply Kodjia and Hogan ? Think he has got to completely change his system to accommodate the current squad ......
Think in the case of the three midfielders, I think it is more about allowing them to play a bit further forward and take the shackles off a bit. Having a forward who could hold the ball up would help with that and would allow them to come on to the ball a bit more. Think we could do with another wide player whichever formation we play to rotate with Adomah and Green.
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According to the press tonight, Bruce was told on Thursday that we have no money to spend this summer and he has to sell to buy
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Sell what? Unless we sell Jack (which we shouldn't) then we'd be lucky to generate a few million with our unwanted players and bomb squaders...and it may even cost us more in paying players contracts off than what we could generate in transfer fees.
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Sell what? Unless we sell Jack (which we shouldn't) then we'd be lucky to generate a few million with our unwanted players and bomb squaders...and it may even cost us more in paying players contracts off than what we could generate in transfer fees.
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The whole team we have out on Loan to start. Followed by amavi, Richards, elphick
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According to the press tonight, Bruce was told on Thursday that we have no money to spend this summer and he has to sell to buy
Worth noting the rumour is because its of the new financial fair play rules rather than any issues with Xia.
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In summary, the season was mostly shit, with a few bright spots here and there.
Best we forget all about it and look forward to next season.
Finish off clearing out the shit, strengthen where we can and off we go again in August.
Bit depressing isn't it, but not totally desperate?
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According to the press tonight, Bruce was told on Thursday that we have no money to spend this summer and he has to sell to buy
Worth noting the rumour is because its of the new financial fair play rules rather than any issues with Xia.
If we're concerned by FFP fines it suggests that there are worries over money and that we don't expect to go up anytime soon.
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well unless we have a collection of psychics on the pay roll how do we know? The fact is that most of the top six this year were floundering last year and have spent the square root of nothing to get from one end of the table to the other. We can do the same without spunking the GDP of Peru yet again.
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According to the press tonight, Bruce was told on Thursday that we have no money to spend this summer and he has to sell to buy
Worth noting the rumour is because its of the new financial fair play rules rather than any issues with Xia.
Now in the Sunday papers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/13/steve-bruce-hit-aston-villa-cash-freeze-told-must-sell-can-buy/
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According to the press tonight, Bruce was told on Thursday that we have no money to spend this summer and he has to sell to buy
Worth noting the rumour is because its of the new financial fair play rules rather than any issues with Xia.
If we're concerned by FFP fines it suggests that there are worries over money and that we don't expect to go up anytime soon.
Dr Tony isn't going to spend money with no results. Nobody can be expected to do that. Bruce will have to go with what he has with any additions financed by sales. Elphick, Adomah, Hourihane and Jack might generate enough cash to get a couple of players in. McCormack must have something otherwise he wouldn't have been a success previously. He has to work otherwise he'll throw what's left of his career down the toilet. A fit Gabby might provide some goals also.
At least there should be a more settled side next season who have more understanding on how to play as a team.
The recovery of Aston Villa from the depths won't be a quick process but the bottom of the pit has been reached and the recovery has started.
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I thought at the time that of all those seasons circling the drain, we really picked the wrong one to finally get flushed. We, to my mind, had, had to get straight back up. The parachute payments now restructured to two years instead of the previous three meant we had to get all the biggest earners off the wage bill asap, yet said bill still weighs us down 12 months on. The new TV deal "prize" money kicking in that means even the bottom club coming down will be able to easily match our spending, but without our concerns about falling foul of ffp.
It's all a bit shit.
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I am not overly concerned at the teams dropping. It's not like they are teams full of good players who are likely to stop with them.
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According to the press tonight, Bruce was told on Thursday that we have no money to spend this summer and he has to sell to buy
Worth noting the rumour is because its of the new financial fair play rules rather than any issues with Xia.
If we're concerned by FFP fines it suggests that there are worries over money and that we don't expect to go up anytime soon.
No. I thought that as well but the issue is apparently this season the Championship FFP include things beyond fines to include points deductions or denial from promotion. So we simply have to comply with it. :(
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Fair enough is there any official confirmation of those sanctions?
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Fair enough is there any official confirmation of those sanctions?
http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php
Relevant bits regarding punishments
Crucially, this harmonisation of the rules comes with the blessing of the Premier League - so we shouldn’t see any repeat of the stand-offs that arose (and are still ongoing) with QPR and Leicester. Previously, the Premier League bosses refused to help the Football League collect the ‘Fair Play Tax’ fines for clubs that overspent but won promotion – this lack of support significantly undermined the Football League and severely impacted on the effectiveness of the Football League punishments.
Any punishment for breach of the rules will be determined by an independent panel (the ‘Fair Play Panel’).
But what are the potential punishments? Previously the Football League has only been able to either; fine promoted clubs (a fine the Premier League didn’t help them collect), or impose a transfer embargo for historic overspending (which always like a stable-door/horse scenario). With this change, a wide range of punishments are now available. Nothing is off the table; the Football League are now able to impose a points deduction during the current season, or demote a club from an automatic promotion position into the play-offs (or out of the play-offs altogether). Transfer embargoes are also available (with the earliest one potentially applying during the Summer 2017 Transfer window.
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Surely, any punishment has to be stated in advance. Clearly the magnitude of a fine will need to be assessed after the event depending on the severity but points deduction or preventing promotion cannot be left until after the event as you can just imagine the impartiality that could come into play.
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I'm just glad its all over for another year, for the 6th year in a row. Not sure that's how you're meant to feel though.
One day I'll be sad when a season ends.
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the Doctor's being very pragmatic about it
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Surely, any punishment has to be stated in advance. Clearly the magnitude of a fine will need to be assessed after the event depending on the severity but points deduction or preventing promotion cannot be left until after the event as you can just imagine the impartiality that could come into play.
So far the punishment for similar has been transfer embargoes.
Or turning a blind eye to blatant book cooking.
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Other than this season, when was the last time we played only 2 cup ties in a season? That depresses me as much as any league stats.
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Surely, any punishment has to be stated in advance. Clearly the magnitude of a fine will need to be assessed after the event depending on the severity but points deduction or preventing promotion cannot be left until after the event as you can just imagine the impartiality that could come into play.
So far the punishment for similar has been transfer embargoes.
Or turning a blind eye to blatant book cooking.
You can bet that if we were in breach, we would have the book thrown at us.
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Surely, any punishment has to be stated in advance. Clearly the magnitude of a fine will need to be assessed after the event depending on the severity but points deduction or preventing promotion cannot be left until after the event as you can just imagine the impartiality that could come into play.
So far the punishment for similar has been transfer embargoes.
Or turning a blind eye to blatant book cooking.
You can bet that if we were in breach, we would have the book thrown at us.
yup
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Worryingly the Telegraph has an article suggesting we have allready blown our best chance of returning to the PL based on recent statistics.
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I am not overly concerned at the teams dropping. It's not like they are teams full of good players who are likely to stop with them.
Depending on who Boro get in as a new manager, they should be solid enough. They have a Gabby problem in their squad re the ever expanding Stewart Downing but their coaches never gave them a chance with their negative tactics last season and poor recruitment on crap like Traore.
Sunderland look ripe for a takeover, Pickford and Defoe should bring in a decent amount of cash and a lot of their deadwood are out of contract. Hull will probably get relegated again
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I am not overly concerned at the teams dropping. It's not like they are teams full of good players who are likely to stop with them.
Depending on who Boro get in as a new manager, they should be solid enough. They have a Gabby problem in their squad re the ever expanding Stewart Downing but their coaches never gave them a chance with their negative tactics last season and poor recruitment on crap like Traore.
Sunderland look ripe for a takeover, Pickford and Defoe should bring in a decent amount of cash and a lot of their deadwood are out of contract. Hull will probably get relegated again
They won't get anything for Defoe, he has a relegation clause meaning he can go for free.
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Tom Fox negotiated that clause it would seem.
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Worryingly the Telegraph has an article suggesting we have allready blown our best chance of returning to the PL based on recent statistics.
In those statistics, how many clubs were of similar size or stature or conversely how many were the absolute shambles we'd become?
We defy statistics. Statistics can fuck off.
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Worryingly the Telegraph has an article suggesting we have allready blown our best chance of returning to the PL based on recent statistics.
In those statistics, how many clubs were of similar size or stature or conversely how many were the absolute shambles we'd become?
We defy statistics. Statistics can fuck off.
Our stature is of a lower half 2nd Division club that is still making huge mistakes with player acquisitions, only 1 of the last 18 that failed to bounce back the first season have been subsequently promoted.
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Worryingly the Telegraph has an article suggesting we have allready blown our best chance of returning to the PL based on recent statistics.
In those statistics, how many clubs were of similar size or stature or conversely how many were the absolute shambles we'd become?
We defy statistics. Statistics can fuck off.
Our stature is of a lower half 2nd Division club that is still making huge mistakes with player acquisitions, only 1 of the last 18 that failed to bounce back the first season have been subsequently promoted.
Confirms my worries. What the fuck is Wyness doing here?
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Worryingly the Telegraph has an article suggesting we have allready blown our best chance of returning to the PL based on recent statistics.
In those statistics, how many clubs were of similar size or stature or conversely how many were the absolute shambles we'd become?
We defy statistics. Statistics can fuck off.
Our stature is of a lower half 2nd Division club that is still making huge mistakes with player acquisitions, only 1 of the last 18 that failed to bounce back the first season have been subsequently promoted.
Confirms my worries. What the fuck is Wyness doing here?
Quite frankly what other clubs did in other seasons has the square root of fuck all to do with us next season.
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I went back to 2010 and by my reckoning the clubs that haven't been promoted back to the top flight are Portsmouth, sha, Blackpool, Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Wigan, Reading, QPR, Fulham, Cardiff, Norwich and Villa.
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Pretty grim list that.
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Worryingly the Telegraph has an article suggesting we have allready blown our best chance of returning to the PL based on recent statistics.
In those statistics, how many clubs were of similar size or stature or conversely how many were the absolute shambles we'd become?
We defy statistics. Statistics can fuck off.
Our stature is of a lower half 2nd Division club that is still making huge mistakes with player acquisitions, only 1 of the last 18 that failed to bounce back the first season have been subsequently promoted.
Confirms my worries. What the fuck is Wyness doing here?
Quite frankly what other clubs did in other seasons has the square root of fuck all to do with us next season.
You are right it is not a square rooot it is 18 to 1.
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When Saturday Comes magazine has a very good article covering our season. some nice pics too including the Holte during the tribute to Ugo.
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I went back to 2010 and by my reckoning the clubs that haven't been promoted back to the top flight are Portsmouth, sha, Blackpool, Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Wigan, Reading, QPR, Fulham, Cardiff, Norwich and Villa.
But without sounding arrogant - are any of them the same size and stature of AVFC? Most of them are either financially skint or not an attractive option to move to
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I went back to 2010 and by my reckoning the clubs that haven't been promoted back to the top flight are Portsmouth, sha, Blackpool, Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Wigan, Reading, QPR, Fulham, Cardiff, Norwich and Villa.
But without sounding arrogant - are any of them the same size and stature of AVFC? Most of them are either financially skint or not an attractive option to move to
Because the gate money is now insignificant our size and stature means fuck all except for the weight of expectation.
What is becoming abundantly clear is that unless you are in the elite group of clubs which we are not, then sound management and structure is imperative.
I am not convinced that we have that in place or that we have the right people to achieve it.
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When Saturday Comes magazine has a very good article covering our season. some nice pics too including the Holte during the tribute to Ugo.
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Was it written by our Mr Woodhall?
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When Saturday Comes magazine has a very good article covering our season. some nice pics too including the Holte during the tribute to Ugo.
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Was it written by our Mr Woodhall?
Pass
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When Saturday Comes magazine has a very good article covering our season. some nice pics too including the Holte during the tribute to Ugo.
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Was it written by our Mr Woodhall?
Pass
No it bloody wasn't.
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Simon Inglis.
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I went back to 2010 and by my reckoning the clubs that haven't been promoted back to the top flight are Portsmouth, sha, Blackpool, Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Wigan, Reading, QPR, Fulham, Cardiff, Norwich and Villa.
But without sounding arrogant - are any of them the same size and stature of AVFC? Most of them are either financially skint or not an attractive option to move to
Because the gate money is now insignificant our size and stature means fuck all except for the weight of expectation.
What is becoming abundantly clear is that unless you are in the elite group of clubs which we are not, then sound management and structure is imperative.
I am not convinced that we have that in place or that we have the right people to achieve it.
Agree totally
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When Saturday Comes magazine has a very good article covering our season. some nice pics too including the Holte during the tribute to Ugo.
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Was it written by our Mr Woodhall?
Pass
No it bloody wasn't.
A pity. Your Dalian piece was great.