Post season thread

[TB]

The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...

Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).

From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table.  As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.

He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.

Not that much of a Bruce fan myself, but this has been a problem for several years now.

2016/2017: Conceded the first goal 19 times, won 1, drew 4, lost 14.
2015/2016: Conceded the first goal 28 times, won 0, drew 4, lost 24.
2014/2015: Conceded the first goal 20 times, won 1, drew 1, lost 18.
2013/2014: Conceded the first goal 22 times, won 4, drew 1, lost 17.
2012/2013: Conceded the first goal 17 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 13.
2011/2012: Conceded the first goal 16 times, won 2, drew 2, lost 12.

(from soccerstats.com)

If this is the KEY stat from this season, it should be a key stat from previous seasons as well. I think there's a pattern emerging from those stats.

Indeed it is, but the difference is that all the others were against sides full of world class players.  The point is that we're supposed to believe that Bruce can get us automatic promotion next year but in truth he's failing in the same ways as many of our previous managers, most of whom we agree aren't good enough.

It also points back to the fact that I've been saying for years that changing the culture of the club by developing a style is much more important than the manager but we just won't learn.  If you pick random managers and adapt to their style you're always going to be in a state of transition and that's what really needs to change.  We need to identify, now, how we want to be playing in 5-6 years time and then make every decision on the basis that it is a step along that path.  Bruce getting us back up via the playoffs this season could be worked to fit but giving him another season is a move in the wrong direction in my opinion.

Teams full of world-class players? Really? Like West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke, Leicester last year? That's moving the goal-posts a bit IMO.

You don't believe Bruce is good enough to get us promoted next year, which is fair enough. I'm hoping he is - if he's still here next season. But posting a stat from this year only and presenting it as the key stat for this season when the problem of heads dropping after conceding has been a well-known problem for several years comes across as looking for a stick to beat the current manager with.

As for your second paragraph and the need to have a style/playing ethos and hiring managers/coaching team that will fit the playing style and the squad available - I wholeheartedly agree.

But the iffy bit about that is that it might require appointing a DoF and demoting the manager to head coach, which hasn't worked very well in the UK thus far.

[old man villa fan]

The manager sets the team up to play a certain way and you cannot deny that the low scoring is a result of the manager's tactics.

Defences are generally very poor in this leave if you attack them.  That's why you see a lot of 3 and 4 goals scored by teams and not just the ones at the top.  However, to score more than 2, you have to set up in a certain way.

We have a good defensive record but that is generally because we have so many players back behind the ball.  Yes, get players back behind the ball when you are defending but not all of the time. Breaking from defence to attack is a key part of the game, something that Bruce doesn't have a clue about.

A DoF is not necessary if you appoint like minded managers to continue in the way you want to play and that is what Paul_e said.

[pbavfckuwait]

Last season we stank are way out of the top league due to not investing and 6 or 7 years of total mismanagement from all involved, so this year we are 13th in what I think is universally agreed is a shit standard of football, after spending a bucket load, pick and mix buying from other clubs around us, he's scored plenty we will have him, he's got the most assists in the league, we will have him. One manager for 11 games and then the existing one for 35, if this was under Lerner we would be getting the pitch forks out and I am not blaming Dr Tony here new to the country, the business, where he needs to look is not just Bruce, his whole coaching staff but also Round and Wyness.
If the club is to find an identity it must show in all strategic decisions and our transfer policy needs to be part of this, at the moment the transfer policy as the lack of pattern of play seems to be getting made up on the hoof.
They have reconnected with the support, but they also need to know the support want to see hopefully an expansive style of play, continuity of that style through all levels at the club, as above we need an identity and Steve Bruce will not give us that or at least not a positive identity.
Some have stated on here it may take 2 or 3 years, we have not got that time and also that there have been glimpses of a style being formed, glimpses from Bruce over a 35 game period, that's only 3 games short of a full prem season, i.e. once or twice maybe three times and funny enough two of those glimpses against the same team, is not good enough, Bruce's score for the season 3 maybe 3.5.
Don't waste from now to October / November please Villa.

[brian green]

That is why we dominated Brighton with 10 men yesterday.  The substitute he brought on to replace runsalot Hogan, through naivety, inexperience or old fashioned football ability - Davis - started to run forward and with his hold-up skills allowed Lansbury to play a more marauding role higher up the pitch.  Our downfall for years has been a negative mindset.  Not losing is more important than winning.  We pack our own half and pass sideways or backwards so that our midfield players very rarely score goals and our penalty area is constantly like the Alamo.  Pressurised deep lying midfielders are harassed to back passes to the goalkeeper and it becomes fifty fifty hoofball.

Dean Saunders put his finger on it last week when he said Steve Bruce buys big defenders who like to tackle and head the ball then goes out a buys four strikers.   The actual engine room of victories, the midfield have to fit in as best they can rather than running the show which is their job.

[pbavfckuwait]

Totally agree Brian, Bruce does not do midfield, but as I stated above Wyness, Round have a responsibility here,just because Bruce asks he should not automatically get and if Bruce does not like that tough, we are not Hull, Birmingham, Sunderland, Wigan, they might have tryed to kill my expectations over the last god knows how many years, but they hav'nt, we are Aston Villa and deserve better than what we are getting.

[brian green]

Absolutely Kuwait.  I was really surprised yesterday at the level of acceptance and resignation expressed by many to whom I spoke before, after and during the game.  Even Mr Woodhall from whom many, myself included, have come to expect acerbic and forensic examinations of our situation, generously summed it up that the season past was a holiday now the work has to be done.

Far be it from me to disagree but in support of your view Kuwait, that that workload MUST include  a seismic shift at board level to stamp out the profligate waste of the owner's money on players who look good on paper but in reality are either deeply flawed or fundamentally uncoachable or both.  There must also be an end to players like Richards, Gabby and Bacuna blocking game time to young players trying to prove themselves.

[AV82EC]

As I stated earlier Brian, Keinan Davis in a 30 minute cameo showed more than I've seen from all strikers bar Kodjia in the last 30 months.

[mr underhill]

slightly hyperbolic - he did well in some respects and certainly made more of a contribution than Hogan who looks to me like he's not going to make an impression at Villa. Davis certainly held the ball up well and brought other players into threatening positions by doing so, but had Kodjia occupied the same space, he would certainly have converted at least one of the lad's two chances and won us the game. I'm praying that Kodjia comes back the player he was - despite his faults - pre injury.

[paul_e]

i disagree, missing chances was down to inexperience but his all round play was the sort of thin that's been missing since Benteke left, we had link up play, we had movement off the ball, we had a focal  point.  I've liked the look of Davis for a while, he's strong and won't be bullied but he also has decent technique.

[mr underhill]

well I disagree - we need pace and more pace...and Davis doesn't have any. I want everyone in a forward position to be like Billy Whizz.

[paul_e]

Teams full of world-class players? Really? Like West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke, Leicester last year? That's moving the goal-posts a bit IMO.

You don't believe Bruce is good enough to get us promoted next year, which is fair enough. I'm hoping he is - if he's still here next season. But posting a stat from this year only and presenting it as the key stat for this season when the problem of heads dropping after conceding has been a well-known problem for several years comes across as looking for a stick to beat the current manager with.

As for your second paragraph and the need to have a style/playing ethos and hiring managers/coaching team that will fit the playing style and the squad available - I wholeheartedly agree.

But the iffy bit about that is that it might require appointing a DoF and demoting the manager to head coach, which hasn't worked very well in the UK thus far.

I stand by it as it was in relation to the league we're in and highlighting the difference in quality of opposition.

As for looking for a stick to beat the manager with, that's not the case at all.  We all know that to get back up and try to achieve the goals set our by Xia we need to turn the ship around, it's a theme that has been present all through the threads on here, you can also look for stop the rot which is used in the same context.  My point is that whilst we have won more games the fundamental problem that underpins why we've been shit for so long hasn't been addressed at all and until it is we're going to be stuck in this league.

[Brend'Watkins]

The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...

Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).

From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table.  As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.

He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.

Yes he does, without a doubt.

But bloody hell, he has also got to find a way where we win 10 away games next season (if he is still here).

The biggest problem away from home is 14 goals in 23 games.  You just don't win games if you can't score (that's comfortably the wirst in the league by the way, with Rotherham on 17 being the only other team under 20.  Bruce is responsible for 12 in 17 from that so again he did a little better than RDM but it's still pathetic.

Our biggest problem is scoring goals whether at home or away.  When we beat Rotherham 3 - 0 earlier in the season I remember their manager stating after after the game "We won't be the last league side to come here this season and concede 3."  I'm sure it was said in respect to us as a club and our standing and the resources available to us.  That we didn't manage it again tells you where we're at.

WE DON'T SCORE ENOUGH.  Whether that's down to quality of players, the system we play, tactics, luck, belief or whatever who knows but we need to get it sorted.  Or, more to the point, Bruce needs to get it sorted.  He could start by getting the team to play something approaching decent football which might rectify it to an extent.

[peter w]

We definitely need someone who can hold the ball up front every bit as much as we need some pace in the team. Anyway, brain, i think the acceptance that you're speaking of is more that people just want(ed) this season to be over and be done with. No more games to feel frustrated by and no more Bruce - "that's the worst I've seen and it's not good enough" quotes. I just want to stop being disappointed and then after a month or so I want to start feeling those early stirrings of excitement and optimism. With or without Bruce.

[Nelson Lodge]

Think I am in a minority as things turned out in not being too disappointed. This time last year, post relegation, I believed there was a strong probability that the club would drop straight through into League 1 under the then Lerner ownership. The club had been spiralling out of control from the very top for at least 8 seasons - I include MON's final year.
(Before the start of last season I heard BFR on the radio say he thought the Villa could drop straight through).

Thankfully then came the change ownership. Whilst it seems disappointing that the huge sums spent have not seen a much better league position it serves to illustrate how bad the set up at Bodymoor had become. No doubt all is not yet right there and the close season must be used to address and finally correct this problem. Nevertheless some stability has been restored and we can but hope it is permanent and not a temporary fix before the downward slide resumes.

Given a constructive and positive close season I am hopeful of a promotion push next time round. The last 2 occasions the club have won promotion from this division Villa have been runners up; in 1988 and 1975. So whilst promotion is the aim is it too much to ask to go up as Champions? After all it is now 21 years since a trophy was won - the longest drought in the club's history.

[pbavfckuwait]

I don't count the Championship as a trophy, sorry Nelson.