Post season thread

[Deano's Mullet]

The KEY stat from this season is the first goal ...

Under Bruce we've scored the first goal 20 times and conceded the first 15 times (we've not had a 0-0 under him).

From the 20 we've taken the lead we've managed to win 14 of them, draw 5 and lose 1, that's pretty good and shows that he's done a pretty solid job of getting us to hold on to a lead, hence he's improved us from where we were under RDM. However in the 15 games where we've conceded the first goal we've picked up just 5 points and that is why we're in the bottom half of the table.  As I said on the Bruce out thread yesterday, this is the effect of being all about keeping clean sheets, it makes us completely reliant on scoring the first goal, if that doesn't happen we get nothing.

He needs to find a way to get back into games because this season he has been incapable of changing games with tactics or subs and that just isn't anywhere near good enough.

Yes he does, without a doubt.

But bloody hell, he has also got to find a way where we win 10 away games next season (if he is still here).

The biggest problem away from home is 14 goals in 23 games.  You just don't win games if you can't score (that's comfortably the wirst in the league by the way, with Rotherham on 17 being the only other team under 20.  Bruce is responsible for 12 in 17 from that so again he did a little better than RDM but it's still pathetic.

Our biggest problem is scoring goals whether at home or away.  When we beat Rotherham 3 - 0 earlier in the season I remember their manager stating after after the game "We won't be the last league side to come here this season and concede 3."  I'm sure it was said in respect to us as a club and our standing and the resources available to us.  That we didn't manage it again tells you where we're at.

WE DON'T SCORE ENOUGH.  Whether that's down to quality of players, the system we play, tactics, luck, belief or whatever who knows but we need to get it sorted.  Or, more to the point, Bruce needs to get it sorted.  He could start by getting the team to play something approaching decent football which might rectify it to an extent.

Just being pedantic I am sure but we did score three at home to Cardiff. I agree with everything else you've said though.

[Hookeysmith]

That is why we dominated Brighton with 10 men yesterday.  The substitute he brought on to replace runsalot Hogan, through naivety, inexperience or old fashioned football ability - Davis - started to run forward and with his hold-up skills allowed Lansbury to play a more marauding role higher up the pitch.  Our downfall for years has been a negative mindset.  Not losing is more important than winning.  We pack our own half and pass sideways or backwards so that our midfield players very rarely score goals and our penalty area is constantly like the Alamo.  Pressurised deep lying midfielders are harassed to back passes to the goalkeeper and it becomes fifty fifty hoofball.

Dean Saunders put his finger on it last week when he said Steve Bruce buys big defenders who like to tackle and head the ball then goes out a buys four strikers.   The actual engine room of victories, the midfield have to fit in as best they can rather than running the show which is their job.

Nail on head for me

Without Kodjia and Jedinak yesterdayit gave the midfield the movement it needed and both Hourinane and Lansbury getting forward. Although Jedinak is great to bring onif we have to close a game out - to have him as a starter means we are set up defensively and are reliant on him to set the tempo - which is awful

[garyshawsknee]

Brighton play 4 4 2 and show that the best form of defence is to attack and have possession. We sit far too deep, pass too slow, so when we do play with two  in the middle they easily get over run. I think SB needs to have a rethink and change his style, though he's probably too long in the tooth to do this.

[oldhill_avfc]

I thought we were ok today. That's twice we've made Brighton look very very ordinary.

On the season, probably about right, solid home form but away has been little short of emabarrasing. Issues for me are the inconsistency of far too many of our team and squad.

Johnstone - if we can get him then go for it hugely more confident than when he arrived. Need a decent back up.

Hutton - cult hero maybe but needs to be replaced. Happy to give  De Laet a chance and been quite impressed with Bree.

Chester - excellent consistent and my POTY.
Baker - mid table championship player nowhere near good enough for where we need to be. For all his wholeheartedness he's a liability with the ball. Replace.
Elphick, Richards - get rid.

Taylor - been really impressed, settled well and very consistent. Amavi can go as he's just not consistent in his play or execution.

Adomah - another inconsistent player, we can't carry players like this in this division. Replace.

Jedinak - solid and excellent, keep and buy a backup.

Hourihane - hasn't settled yet but still not been given enough licence to get forwards.when he has has proved dangerous and been unlucky
Not to score more. Keep.

Lansbury - needs to dominate games
More has the ability needs to show it. Keep.

Gardner - I'm afraid it's over he just can't cut it.

Bacuna - another of the inconsistent ones does so many good things then ruins it with lackadaisical and sloppy passing, he's been really stroppy the last few months as well. Replace.

Green - keep so disappointed he picked up that injury as he'd just started to find the confidence to nail down a place. Looks like he filling out as well and looks a more muscular and physical Scott Sinclair.

Grealish- keep, we know the bad but when this lad plays we've no one like him.

Kodjia - love him, great workrate, expect the unexpected, and ability to fashion something from
Nothing. Keep.

Agbonlahor - replace
McCormack - replace
Hogan - replace

Davis - showed more in 30 mins today than the 3 above have in months. Keep and promote.

RHM - keep

Anyone on loan - sell.

By my reckoning we need a back up keeper, 2 or 3 new centre backs, a cover left back, central midfielder, 2 pacy wide options and a striker to replace the feckless, injury prone, inconsistent, poorly executing players we have.

Bruce - I'm really torn, we proved today we can play football, when we upped the tempo and pace at the start of the second half it was like a breath of fresh air and even going down to 10 men didn't dampen our intent. He's got until the end of October for me, no excuses for anything less than in and around the top 2 with the squad he's had and what's likely to happen this summer.

Absolutely spot on.

The last 30 mins was the most revealing segment of play all season, and one to optimistic about too. 

Play with a central forward who can hold the ball up and bring the midfielders into play and we look like a far more viable proposition.   I can see Kodija fitting in with that system as well, so if the kid ain't quite ready then we need to get someone similar (and fund him with selling Hogan and McCormack).

[London Villan]

With Davis up front we actually looked like a team. He was raw and perhaps could have done better with his chance, but compared to when Gestede murdered that role it was a breath of fresh air.

[passitsideways]

I think all the final 30 minutes yesterday is relevant only in relation to the benefit of a positive mindset, rather than laying any particular blueprint about how we need to set up tactics/personnel wise.

I can't say I agree at all with this notion that we apparently need 6-10 more new players this off-season, because that'd be just a repeat of the same old shit that happened this season - it's absolutely no coincidence that the two particularly bad stretches came while a whole bunch of new players were trying to figure out how to play together. Yes, there are areas which need improving, and certainly should aim to be filled with a small number of signings, but it really fucks me with this notion that any minor area of discomfort has to be fixed by chucking a pile more money at it, instead of figuring out ways to improve internally.

[oldhill_avfc]

I think all the final 30 minutes yesterday is relevant only in relation to the benefit of a positive mindset, rather than laying any particular blueprint about how we need to set up tactics/personnel wise.

I can't say I agree at all with this notion that we apparently need 6-10 more new players this off-season, because that'd be just a repeat of the same old shit that happened this season - it's absolutely no coincidence that the two particularly bad stretches came while a whole bunch of new players were trying to figure out how to play together. Yes, there are areas which need improving, and certainly should aim to be filled with a small number of signings, but it really fucks me with this notion that any minor area of discomfort has to be fixed by chucking a pile more money at it, instead of figuring out ways to improve internally.

Yes and no.

Agreed - wholesale changes bring instability and uncertainty of how to set up. 

As for the style of play.  I'm sure it is the blueprint.  Of course you need a positive mindset, but the problem has been that the midfield can't commit forward for fear of being out of position if the forwards don't hold the ball up.  The brief spell of play yesterday showed that if you get them in the game in the final 3rd they look threatening and capable of scoring goals - and that's what's been missing all season.

[passitsideways]

I think all the final 30 minutes yesterday is relevant only in relation to the benefit of a positive mindset, rather than laying any particular blueprint about how we need to set up tactics/personnel wise.

I can't say I agree at all with this notion that we apparently need 6-10 more new players this off-season, because that'd be just a repeat of the same old shit that happened this season - it's absolutely no coincidence that the two particularly bad stretches came while a whole bunch of new players were trying to figure out how to play together. Yes, there are areas which need improving, and certainly should aim to be filled with a small number of signings, but it really fucks me with this notion that any minor area of discomfort has to be fixed by chucking a pile more money at it, instead of figuring out ways to improve internally.

Yes and no.

Agreed - wholesale changes bring instability and uncertainty of how to set up. 

As for the style of play.  I'm sure it is the blueprint.  Of course you need a positive mindset, but the problem has been that the midfield can't commit forward for fear of being out of position if the forwards don't hold the ball up.  The brief spell of play yesterday showed that if you get them in the game in the final 3rd they look threatening and capable of scoring goals - and that's what's been missing all season.

I dunno, I feel like at this moment, it's a situation where even if we did have somebody who could hold the ball up properly, we'd still do fuck all because we literally don't know how to maintain a positive attacking mindset. Obviously that's speculation since we haven't really had a forward who can do that properly, but I think it's going to be a case of having faith in the ability of Jedinak + a settled back 4 (hopefully, with a CB partner for Chester) to provide the necessary cover, rather than buying at the other end of the pitch, in terms of a strike partner for Kodjia.

Also, I feel like too often this season, we've tried defending for 65 minutes and attacking in the last 25; if only we could flip that around.

[old man villa fan]

One of the many things we have failed to do this season is exert and maintain pressure on the opposition defence.

[Lee]

Been on some great trips to places I thought I would never see the Villa play, and I'm glad to give my liver a rest.

However, the football has been wank for the majority of the time.

[nick harper]

I have a feeling we may see Jedinak at centre half next season - I'm not sure he can do another 46 games in midfield. Bruce has hinted at that.

It would be good to get a more mobile holding midfield player and release Hourihane and Lansbury further forward. Both looked much happier in more familiar roles yesterday. No question they have goals in them as well.

I too was impressed with Davis. He unsettled them with his aggression and strength with his back to goal. As soon as the ball began to stick, we had much more movement and passed better. He may well be a find for us.

Pace out wide is also key. Adomah flatters to deceive but it was shame Green missed the last dozen games. He will play a big part next season hopefully.

[Ads]

17 player turn over before we add to the squad? No thank you.

[cheltenhamlion]

I don't want loads of players in. Money isn't the fix to our problems. We need a lump up front. Murphy at Newcastle would do just fine. Scores goals with service, holds it up well and gives the midfield a chance to play. We look a million times better when Lansbury and Hourihane are playing centrally and further up the pitcH.  We also need to score a lot more from set pieces next season.

This year has been shite and we can't start next year so half arsed or playing so defensively. We should aiming for a goal a game from set pieces. It won't happen, but should do in 30 games.

[SoccerHQ]

That is why we dominated Brighton with 10 men yesterday.  The substitute he brought on to replace runsalot Hogan, through naivety, inexperience or old fashioned football ability - Davis - started to run forward and with his hold-up skills allowed Lansbury to play a more marauding role higher up the pitch.  Our downfall for years has been a negative mindset.  Not losing is more important than winning.  We pack our own half and pass sideways or backwards so that our midfield players very rarely score goals and our penalty area is constantly like the Alamo.  Pressurised deep lying midfielders are harassed to back passes to the goalkeeper and it becomes fifty fifty hoofball.

Dean Saunders put his finger on it last week when he said Steve Bruce buys big defenders who like to tackle and head the ball then goes out a buys four strikers.   The actual engine room of victories, the midfield have to fit in as best they can rather than running the show which is their job.

Nail on head for me

Without Kodjia and Jedinak yesterdayit gave the midfield the movement it needed and both Hourinane and Lansbury getting forward. Although Jedinak is great to bring onif we have to close a game out - to have him as a starter means we are set up defensively and are reliant on him to set the tempo - which is awful

I can see Jedinak playing a bit more at CB next season.

We'll still see him at DM away from home but I too don't really see the need for him to always play that posiiton in every home game.

We really need to impose ourselves on the opposition much more next season so surely we can get away with Hourihane-Lansbury against bottom half teams who come just to defend?

[Des Little]

Been on some great trips to places I thought I would never see the Villa play, and I'm glad to give my liver a rest.

However, the football has been wank for the majority of the time.

Agree wholeheartedly Lee. I won't miss the weekly beer intake. And before anyone tells me I don't have to drink to watch the Villa, yes I do.