Villa Park: a managerial graveyard?

[Hookeysmith]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

When you look at that list it's no surprise that we're in a mess.

Lambert may have had potential - but was allowed to carry on for far too long.

Probably points to a combination of poor boardroom choices and the diminishing power of the Villa 'brand' to attract talent.

For me the rot started when some moron thought TSM was the right choice - how anyone came to that conclusion created the catalyst of our demise as the new person in no matter how shit or inexperienced they were had to be better than the previous incumbent and on it rolled

Lambert was a breathe of fresh air after the dour shit of TSM
Sherwood - as above
Garde - considered more intelligent than gobby Sherwood
RDM - Considered more experienced in this division
Bruce - as RDM
next?

[KevinGage]

Flashes only though nothing sustainable. BFR's fell away as fast as it rose...

Sorry, don't accept that at all. 

BFR was the last manager we had who had us acting like a big club. And that was the case for the bulk of his four years.  Little's team was attractive, but we were seen as next rung down the ladder from the big 3. MON got some good results against the top 4 and reasonable league positions (though dire football) but we often played like plucky minnows even away to fairly modest sides.

Explain the drop from 2nd to 10th in the space of a year under BFR then.

Might have had something to do with winning the League Cup.  We were third that season into February.  Having secured the cup (our first in 20 years) and European football  in March , BFR decided to field sides made up of the likes of Beitkreutz, Beinlich and Yorke with one eye on next season. Finishing 4th or finishing 10th didn't matter a whole pile either way back then.  This was pre 1999, when you couldn't get a CL place by failing to win the league.

I liked Little's team- and it was a team in the true sense of the word, with the sum being greater than the parts. His only major purchase pre Collywobbles that might have had other big clubs interested was Draper.  The rest, Southgate, Taylor, Johnson, Charles, Wright etc looked decidedly mid ranking (or lower). Yet that lot, combined with an ability to get the best out talent he inherited such as Bosnich, Ehiogu and Yorke had us operating at the top end of the table and widely being seen as the best of the rest. We played decent football doing it, too.

BFR's side was different. There was no suggestion he would be content to be the best of the rest, happy to dish out the occasional nose bleed here and there, but ultimately disappearing when the business end of the season came around. We operated at the top end of the market, signing the likes of Staunton, Richardson, Atkinson, Houghton, Saunders and Townsend. Lo and behold, we ended up pushing for the title and winning things.

1991/92 it felt like we were on the move, 92/93 we were going or the title, 93/94 won the cup. 94/95 was a difficult start to the campaign, but most fair minded fans felt that BFR had earned the chance to at least try to turn things around. His relationship with Herbert was fractious at best, so it's not entirely surprising that he was thrown overboard at the first opportunity. For a manager who apparently offered nothing sustainable though, it's a bit odd that the likes of Bosnich, Staunton, Ehiogu and Townsend went on to form the backbone of the next good Villa side too.

[Simon Page]

Loved the Atkinson side despite (or even because) it being at times filled with the most frustrating of players: Dalian's injuries, Saunders' ability to find the woodwork, the regular midfield stroll, Whittingham on the wing, Nii Lamptey... But in his last 26 games he won four and lost something like 16. His World Cup raid for Fashanu didn't help either. Was not happy when he went but soon got over it with Little in charge. No idea if he'd have turned it round, but his successor did so all told probably a good time to part company. What a great few years though.

[oldhill_avfc]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

When you look at that list it's no surprise that we're in a mess.

Lambert may have had potential - but was allowed to carry on for far too long.

Probably points to a combination of poor boardroom choices and the diminishing power of the Villa 'brand' to attract talent.

For me the rot started when some moron thought TSM was the right choice - how anyone came to that conclusion created the catalyst of our demise as the new person in no matter how shit or inexperienced they were had to be better than the previous incumbent and on it rolled

Lambert was a breathe of fresh air after the dour shit of TSM
Sherwood - as above
Garde - considered more intelligent than gobby Sherwood
RDM - Considered more experienced in this division
Bruce - as RDM
next?

I suppose Lerner was allowed one iffy choice with Houllier - so you're right about the rot well and truly set in with McLeish.   

It well and truly showed where Lerner's head was - no football knowledge, no business acumen, interest, pride, ambition or emotional connection with  the club.  Not great credentials for a 'custodian'.

Hopefully Xia's personal pride and vested interest in pleasing his masters will turn things round.

[john e]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

When you look at that list it's no surprise that we're in a mess.

Lambert may have had potential - but was allowed to carry on for far too long.

Probably points to a combination of poor boardroom choices and the diminishing power of the Villa 'brand' to attract talent.

For me the rot started when some moron thought TSM was the right choice - how anyone came to that conclusion created the catalyst of our demise as the new person in no matter how shit or inexperienced they were had to be better than the previous incumbent and on it rolled

Lambert was a breathe of fresh air after the dour shit of TSM
Sherwood - as above
Garde - considered more intelligent than gobby Sherwood
RDM - Considered more experienced in this division
Bruce - as RDM
next?

I suppose Lerner was allowed one iffy choice with Houllier - so you're right about the rot well and truly set in with McLeish.   

It well and truly showed where Lerner's head was - no football knowledge, no business acumen, interest, pride, ambition or emotional connection with  the club.  Not great credentials for a 'custodian'.

Hopefully Xia's personal pride and vested interest in pleasing his masters will turn things round.

it amazes me how so many people thought that Mcliesh was an horrific appointment yet think Bruce is the man
he's exactly the same,
same football, same sort of record, old fashioned, member of the British old boy network, negative let's not lose type tactics, both nice guys, good talkers in front of the camera, say the right things and honest enough individuals, they are carbon copies of each other a couple of book ends

and both  massive mistakes for Aston Villa, Bruce being the biggest in my opinion

[cheltenhamlion]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

When you look at that list it's no surprise that we're in a mess.

Lambert may have had potential - but was allowed to carry on for far too long.

Probably points to a combination of poor boardroom choices and the diminishing power of the Villa 'brand' to attract talent.

For me the rot started when some moron thought TSM was the right choice - how anyone came to that conclusion created the catalyst of our demise as the new person in no matter how shit or inexperienced they were had to be better than the previous incumbent and on it rolled

Lambert was a breathe of fresh air after the dour shit of TSM
Sherwood - as above
Garde - considered more intelligent than gobby Sherwood
RDM - Considered more experienced in this division
Bruce - as RDM
next?

I suppose Lerner was allowed one iffy choice with Houllier - so you're right about the rot well and truly set in with McLeish.   

It well and truly showed where Lerner's head was - no football knowledge, no business acumen, interest, pride, ambition or emotional connection with  the club.  Not great credentials for a 'custodian'.

Hopefully Xia's personal pride and vested interest in pleasing his masters will turn things round.

it amazes me how so many people thought that Mcliesh was an horrific appointment yet think Bruce is the man
he's exactly the same,
same football, same sort of record, old fashioned, member of the British old boy network, negative let's not lose type tactics, both nice guys, good talkers in front of the camera, say the right things and honest enough individuals, they are carbon copies of each other a couple of book ends

and both  massive mistakes for Aston Villa, Bruce being the biggest in my opinion

The 2 appointments are different though. McLeish came in when we could potentially attract some of Europe's finest managers and on the back of a season where we had been through the mill to change from a countering team to one that passes via the midfield. And all this was in the top flight.

The appointment of McLeish wouldn't have looked half as daft if we had been in this division at the time.

[DB]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

When you look at that list it's no surprise that we're in a mess.

Lambert may have had potential - but was allowed to carry on for far too long.

Probably points to a combination of poor boardroom choices and the diminishing power of the Villa 'brand' to attract talent.

For me the rot started when some moron thought TSM was the right choice - how anyone came to that conclusion created the catalyst of our demise as the new person in no matter how shit or inexperienced they were had to be better than the previous incumbent and on it rolled

Lambert was a breathe of fresh air after the dour shit of TSM
Sherwood - as above
Garde - considered more intelligent than gobby Sherwood
RDM - Considered more experienced in this division
Bruce - as RDM
next?

I suppose Lerner was allowed one iffy choice with Houllier - so you're right about the rot well and truly set in with McLeish.   

It well and truly showed where Lerner's head was - no football knowledge, no business acumen, interest, pride, ambition or emotional connection with  the club.  Not great credentials for a 'custodian'.

Hopefully Xia's personal pride and vested interest in pleasing his masters will turn things round.

it amazes me how so many people thought that Mcliesh was an horrific appointment yet think Bruce is the man
he's exactly the same,
same football, same sort of record, old fashioned, member of the British old boy network, negative let's not lose type tactics, both nice guys, good talkers in front of the camera, say the right things and honest enough individuals, they are carbon copies of each other a couple of book ends

and both  massive mistakes for Aston Villa, Bruce being the biggest in my opinion

Villa gave McLeish a job after he relegated a club. Bruce came on the back of a promotion. I could never understand why we rewarded failure it seemed a lazy appointment but I can see why we gave SB the job, he has a good record in this division.

[Toronto Villa]

I don't think anyone ever thought Bruce is the man. But he was accepted because he has a proven track record in the Championship. In fact if we hired Bruce when we were in the PL he'd have been almost as unpopular as TSM though where TSM edges it is that he was just freshly relegated.

[john e]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

When you look at that list it's no surprise that we're in a mess.

Lambert may have had potential - but was allowed to carry on for far too long.

Probably points to a combination of poor boardroom choices and the diminishing power of the Villa 'brand' to attract talent.

For me the rot started when some moron thought TSM was the right choice - how anyone came to that conclusion created the catalyst of our demise as the new person in no matter how shit or inexperienced they were had to be better than the previous incumbent and on it rolled

Lambert was a breathe of fresh air after the dour shit of TSM
Sherwood - as above
Garde - considered more intelligent than gobby Sherwood
RDM - Considered more experienced in this division
Bruce - as RDM
next?

I suppose Lerner was allowed one iffy choice with Houllier - so you're right about the rot well and truly set in with McLeish.   

It well and truly showed where Lerner's head was - no football knowledge, no business acumen, interest, pride, ambition or emotional connection with  the club.  Not great credentials for a 'custodian'.

Hopefully Xia's personal pride and vested interest in pleasing his masters will turn things round.

it amazes me how so many people thought that Mcliesh was an horrific appointment yet think Bruce is the man
he's exactly the same,
same football, same sort of record, old fashioned, member of the British old boy network, negative let's not lose type tactics, both nice guys, good talkers in front of the camera, say the right things and honest enough individuals, they are carbon copies of each other a couple of book ends

and both  massive mistakes for Aston Villa, Bruce being the biggest in my opinion

Villa gave McLeish a job after he relegated a club. Bruce came on the back of a promotion. I could never understand why we rewarded failure it seemed a lazy appointment but I can see why we gave SB the job, he has a good record in this division.

that's just timing though, everything else remains the same

[john e]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

of the list above the only ones I was happy with were Houlier and Garde,
Lambert and RDM I wasn't enthused about but was hoping they would be OK

Sherwood was a shock but he suprissed me how he so quickly turned the teams spirits round and got us playing probably the best football at times that we have done in the last 5 years or more, maybe with a older experienced head next to him instead of the fat twat Butch Wilkins he could have been more of a success

the other two should never have got anywhere near the job, absolute embarrassments the pair of them

however I have over the same time scale wanted to see Roberto Martinez, who I still like
I also remember plugging Owen Coyle once and Nigel Pearson last time round so I'm just as rubbish at picking the good ones out

[brian green]

Agree 100% John.  Saved me writing it.

[DB]

Timing is important, it's Bruce has shown recently that he can get teams up. Moreover, IMO Bruce is a much better manager in this div...hard to see that at moment! Who would you have chosen after RDM then John? Not having a go just For me Bruce was the right choice at the time...and it's still early days.

[Villafirst]

Houllier was the best. Shame he had health issues. Would've got us top six in my opinion.

[PaulTheVillan]

Houllier was the best. Shame he had health issues. Would've got us top six in my opinion.

Shame he couldn't have taken a job behind the scenes, he would have built something special if Lerner was interested

[cheltenhamlion]

Houllier was the best. Shame he had health issues. Would've got us top six in my opinion.

Sorry, but would he bollocks have done.