Villa Park: a managerial graveyard?

[Mister E]

I thought if we kept Gary McAllister after moving Houllier upstairs we wouldn't be in a mess. But we went to appoint Alex McLeish and co afterwards. We doesn't have a system, a playing style, or a vision or right people to make things happens.

One day I want to hear what happened then. The appointment of McLeish was SO beneath us as a club, so completely wrong and against our play style it has to rank as one of the strangest appointments ever. I cannot imagine the circumstances of that Board meeting when they said "Yup, thats our guy." and nobody questioned it. Bizarre.

Yes, I agree that the McAllister decision-making process must have been bizarre. I remember at the end of the McAllister season when we beat Arse away and Liverpool at home in the final games. There was an air of forward momentum and optimism that was quashed with TSM's arrival in the summer.
Was that the point where we moved into the downward spiral that we are still in?

[curiousorange]

Personally, I remember feeling only relief when we beat Arsenal rather than thinking it was the dawning of a new era.

[Simon Page]

Could be wrong, but I can't remember a clamour for McAllister. His managerial record was poor - albeit at clubs slightly more appallingly run than we were on the way to becoming. Since then he's managed no games at all has he?

The strangest thing about McLeish was his appointment came after the alleged fan power induced cessation of our interest in McLaren. Regardless,what we needed in 2011 was a miracle worker who could rebuild a fragmented side while generating their own funds and reigniting the chairman's interest. It's also worth remembering that we'd got used to challenging for Europe, so needed a top boss rather than someone to build from Division Three a la Swansea, Southampton, Bournemouth and Leicester.

[brontebilly]

Flashes only though nothing sustainable. BFR's fell away as fast as it rose...

Sorry, don't accept that at all. 

BFR was the last manager we had who had us acting like a big club. And that was the case for the bulk of his four years.  Little's team was attractive, but we were seen as next rung down the ladder from the big 3. MON got some good results against the top 4 and reasonable league positions (though dire football) but we often played like plucky minnows even away to fairly modest sides.

Explain the drop from 2nd to 10th in the space of a year under BFR then. This was at a time when United and Blackburn were getting humiliated in Europe. Why didn't BFR look to change up an aging team much earlier like Little was forced to.

We were a much more consistent side under Little I thought until the signing of Collymore. The league itself was getting a lot stronger then too with Wenger coming in at Arsenal. I loved the football we played that time, I'm struggling to recall a limited technical player in his team.

I'm not a huge MON fan but it's the last time we had a decent team. Seem to remember us going on a long winning run away from home during one of his seasons. Barry, Young, Gabby, Carew etc , can't remember which season it was but we smashed in loads of goals. This was at a time when the league was at its strongest in 25 years, three teams in CL semis one of those years*

* hope I'm not getting years mixed up

[brontebilly]

Houllier was and would have continued to turn us around had he not become ill. He was a top class manager

Couldn't disagree more, we were sleep walking to relegation until McAllister took over that season.

[mr underhill]

well a slight exaggeration, but didn't we only sneak into 9th on the final day because of a favourable alignment of other results?

[Ads]

Houllier was and would have continued to turn us around had he not become ill. He was a top class manager

Couldn't disagree more, we were sleep walking to relegation until McAllister took over that season.

Not really. We beat West Ham in the last minute and that more or less settled that.

McAllister somehow managed to conspire to lose away at 10 man Albion before we beat on the beach Arsenal and Liverpool.

[VillaAlways]

well a slight exaggeration, but didn't we only sneak into 9th on the final day because of a favourable alignment of other results?

We finished 9th based on our results over the course of the season.

[mr underhill]

obviously but had results gone another way in the final minutes of the final games we could have ended up 14th or something.

[dave.woodhall]

obviously but had results gone another way in the final minutes of the final games we could have ended up 14th or something.

You could say the same about every club at some point in every season, but for some reason 2010-11 was the only time when normal rules didn't apply. 

[VillaAlways]

obviously but had results gone another way in the final minutes of the final games we could have ended up 14th or something.

If Aguero hadn't scored in the 90+4 minute Man CIty would have ended up runners up too  when that happened

Football is all about fine margins as we know

[Meanwood Villa]

obviously but had results gone another way in the final minutes of the final games we could have ended up 14th or something.

And if results had gone differently the previous 37 games we could have been champions. You always finish where you deserve, that is the only cast iron certainty in the game.

[Meanwood Villa]

Flashes only though nothing sustainable. BFR's fell away as fast as it rose...

Sorry, don't accept that at all. 

BFR was the last manager we had who had us acting like a big club. And that was the case for the bulk of his four years.  Little's team was attractive, but we were seen as next rung down the ladder from the big 3. MON got some good results against the top 4 and reasonable league positions (though dire football) but we often played like plucky minnows even away to fairly modest sides.

Explain the drop from 2nd to 10th in the space of a year under BFR then. This was at a time when United and Blackburn were getting humiliated in Europe. Why didn't BFR look to change up an aging team much earlier like Little was forced to.

We were a much more consistent side under Little I thought until the signing of Collymore. The league itself was getting a lot stronger then too with Wenger coming in at Arsenal. I loved the football we played that time, I'm struggling to recall a limited technical player in his team.

I'm not a huge MON fan but it's the last time we had a decent team. Seem to remember us going on a long winning run away from home during one of his seasons. Barry, Young, Gabby, Carew etc , can't remember which season it was but we smashed in loads of goals. This was at a time when the league was at its strongest in 25 years, three teams in CL semis one of those years*

* hope I'm not getting years mixed up

There were three English teams in the semis in 07/08 and 08/09. 07/08 was a great season, that's when we were banging the goals in for fun. 08/09 was the record away winning streak but soured by Moscow and the collapse. We got more points that season and went further in the FA Cup but I look back on 07/08 more fondly.

[oldhill_avfc]

You could argue a case for Houllier despite his health issues, but the list of managers we've appointed over the last 7 years has been very underwhelming in terms of what they have achieved and proven success in the game:

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

Is it any surprise we are where we are with such a clusterfuck of poor managerial appointments, all the other stuff going on behind the scenes and a revolving door of players. There has been no stability, no structure and no foundation for a successful club or team for years, and this needs to stop. We have a new owner that looks intent on rebuilding the structure behind the scenes, but we need to appoint a manager that has proven ability to set up a team and get results...we're a graveyard for crap managers.

When you look at that list it's no surprise that we're in a mess.

Lambert may have had potential - but was allowed to carry on for far too long.

Probably points to a combination of poor boardroom choices and the diminishing power of the Villa 'brand' to attract talent.

[Hookeysmith]

Surely very good players + Crap Manager = Unorganised team, poor results, rot sets in

Average players + Experienced / tactically adept Manager  = Organised team, hard to beat , will win decent % of games

Very good players + Experienced / tactically adept Manager = success around the corner

As other have said - spend the money on a Manager that you would on a half decent player

Newcastle and Brighton have both got experienced managers and a settled set up - too  much change affects results - it is that simple

Did not want Bruce in the first place but we should stick with it (as long as he finds the right team) and see if there is any improvement - if not then close season is all about a Manager as we will have the nucleus of a good squad