That lot Again v Jawdies Pre-Match thread

[PeterWithesShin]

Well that's told me because those attendances don't in any way show that 10-15K appeared (or reappeared) the second Keegan walked through the door.

[The Fish]

Well that's told me because those attendances don't in any way show that 10-15K appeared (or reappeared) the second Keegan walked through the door.

It shows that those low attendances were aberrant, rather than the norm, which was your implication. I'm happy I was able to explain that for you. 

[Dave Cooper please]

No it doesn't, in only two seasons from 1978 to 1992 did you break 25,000 average attendance, and immediately prior to Sky inventing Modern Football ad Keegan arrived you dipped to 16 and 21 thousand, this isn't an aberration, it's nigh on 15 years of poor crowds until Sky and Keegan. That you can't see the coincidence isn't our fault.

[The Fish]

What I see is the average attendances of two clubs fluctuating a bit thanks to on and off-field circumstances, but both growing over time. I see attendances dropping in the 60's through to the 80s (probably a reaction to a flagging economy and rising hooliganism) followed by a resurgence in the 90s and beyond. To claim Newcastle United are unusual in seeing a rise in support in the 90s is a bit silly. Most clubs saw attendances rise, ours came at the same time as our dalliance with the top flight title allowing fans of other clubs will blindly dismiss them as glory supporters. Which is further proven to be misguided by attendances that haven't significantly fallen despite 2 relegations, a hated owner and zero trophies since that all-to-brief adventure.

I get that people like to have easily digestible, easily repeated reasons to criticise other clubs, but criticising Newcastle on their attendances is daft.

For what it's worth, St James' was expanded in 1993 and again 2000.

[Richard E]

This thread is still going to be active in 2026, isn't it?

Looks like I was right.

[PeterWithesShin]

The sad obsessed Scot has even made a graph rather than admit that immediately before Keegan arrived their support was shit and immediately he arrived it improved massively. Told you they'd do anything rather than admit it.

/graphwanker

[dave.woodhall]

As a rule most clubs' crowds go up the better they do.  Most clubs, though, tend not to claim their supporters are better than everyone else.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Well that's told me because those attendances don't in any way show that 10-15K appeared (or reappeared) the second Keegan walked through the door.

It shows that those low attendances were aberrant, rather than the norm, which was your implication. I'm happy I was able to explain that for you. 

Four months before Keegan arrived attendances were down to 9,197. The last league game at Sid James before Keegan arrived was 15,663. King Kev's home debut was almost double with 29,263. Either Bristol City took a massive following up there that day or lots of Geordies suddenly remembered where Strawberry Place was.

[peter w]

I mean, so? Before Keegan, after Keegan, still doesn't mean that they don't pull in the crowds.

[ciggiesnbeer]

For what it's worth, St James' was expanded in 1993 and again 2000.

You mean the Sports Direct Arena. Please be respectful and use its proper name.

[The Fish]

As a rule most clubs' crowds go up the better they do.  Most clubs, though, tend not to claim their supporters are better than everyone else.

Yes, they really do.

They also claim their team is "by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen."

I've explained why attendances spiked, but it seems there's a couple on here who'd rather rattle off tiresome clichés than have an actual discussion.

They probably think all Man Utd fans are from Surrey and all Arsenal fans are more interested in balance sheets. 

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

This thread is still going to be active in 2026, isn't it?

Looks like I was right.

You are, although I reckon you'd still be right if you'd said 2126. I think Fish is building a time machine to aid his pathological need to always have the last word. I fully expect him to post on the centenary of his invitation to fuck off.

[dave.woodhall]

When did the truth become a tiresome cliché?

So let's have a discussion. Villa or Newcastle - which is the bigger club,  and why?

[PeterWithesShin]

If you want to dispel the 'myths' or 'clichés' there's a very very easy way to prove i'm wrong. Post the last 10 league attendances before Keegan was manager, and the first 10 after his appointment.

No graph bollocks, no excuses, nothing but those 20 attendance figures.

[The Fish]

If you want to dispel the 'myths' or 'clichés' there's a very very easy way to prove i'm wrong. Post the last 10 league attendances before Keegan was manager, and the first 10 after his appointment.

No graph bollocks, no excuses, nothing but those 20 attendance figures.

Have you ever heard of the term "Logical Fallacy". If not here's a helpful guide. I've linked to the problem with any reply to your question.  https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter

When did the truth become a tiresome cliché?

So let's have a discussion. Villa or Newcastle - which is the bigger club,  and why?

When it's not the whole truth and it's a cherry picked argument to win those oh-so-precious internet points.

Big club debates are as boring as they are futile.
What makes a big club?
It's trophies, ok but only "major" cups, ok but actually only FA Cups not League cups, ok not cups only league titles, ok but only English league titles. Actually it's turnover, no actually it's profit, no wait it's net profit. Actually it's fanbase, no it's fanbase within the uk, per capita of metropolitan area, divided by number of clubs. Actually it's attendance, but away attendance not home attendance, away attendance in the cups. Surely it's social media footprint, but only twitter, not facebook.

Pointless and boring.

Everyone knows there are truly elite clubs like Barcelona, Man Utd etc. then there's another group like Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City et al, then there's another group including Everton, Newcastle, Spurs and Villa, and so on and so forth. The arbitrary criteria for each tier can change within a season, the gaps between tiers blur, and the importance of being seen as a big club waxes and wanes as on-field performances falter and improve. Last season no Spurs fan cared if they were considered a big club, and yet it's all that's mattered to Leeds fans for over a decade.

You can argue til you're blue in the face whether Everton are bigger than Spurs, but it will never be resolved and the people who fixate on it (and there are guilty parties at every club) are the lads you avoid in the pub.