Scott Hogan - retired

[Jon Crofts]

Just for shits & giggles, go back to Page 1 of this thread and read the hopes and expectations of Scott Hogan.

[Risso]

Just for shits & giggles, go back to Page 1 of this thread and read the hopes and expectations of Scott Hogan.

It's the usual story.  People starts off excited, then after a few less than stellar performances people start calling for patience and saying the player isn't being used properly, before in the end reality hits and just about everybody accepts he's shit.

[paul_e]

Just for shits & giggles, go back to Page 1 of this thread and read the hopes and expectations of Scott Hogan.

It's the usual story.  People starts off excited, then after a few less than stellar performances people start calling for patience and saying the player isn't being used properly, before in the end reality hits and just about everybody accepts he's shit.

I don't recall ever being massively excited about Hogan (my first post on this thread was about 3 weeks after he signed when he broke his ankle/leg) mainly because I knew nothing about him and there was only really 6months of his career available as highlights. I think I approached him with cautious optimism more than anything because he seemed willing to shoot early and one of our problems at the time was that we weren't getting enough shots on target. I do wonder how much getting a season ending injury after a handful of games shaped how he performed for us though.

On the broader point I think the excitement leads to people getting to the "he's shit" stage far too quickly. As an example Adama Traore, according to many on here, was fucking shit and would never be a footballer because he was disappointing for us as an 18 year old. Plenty of people thought Amavi, Veretout and Gollini were shit by the time they left as well but they've gone on to do well. In general we're too quick in calling players world beaters and too quick in calling players shit when the truth is most of them are between the 2 and can be useful players in the league with a season or 2 of experience to fall back on. Wesley, Luiz and Trezeguet are all suffering from this (and Engels recently as well).

[Risso]

Veretout, Amavi and Gollini haven't gone on to be useful players in this league though.  English football just doesn't suit all players, and I think Veretout definitely falls into that category.  Lots of players with bigger reputations than them have come from foreign leagues and not really adapted to English football.

[ChicagoLion]

The “there is a god player in there “ was applied to Tonev as well.

[Bad English]

The “there is a god player in there “ was applied to Tonev as well.

He certainly sent many offerings to the heavens.

[paul_e]

Veretout, Amavi and Gollini haven't gone on to be useful players in this league though.  English football just doesn't suit all players, and I think Veretout definitely falls into that category.  Lots of players with bigger reputations than them have come from foreign leagues and not really adapted to English football.

I don't disagree, but not being suited to the premier league isn't the same as being shit.

[Risso]

Whatever the reasons, Veretout was shit for us, same with Gollini. 

[RamboandBruno]

Whatever the reasons, Veretout was shit for us, same with Gollini.

Dunno if Gollini will be a good player or not in the longer term, but he had about 10 games for us, be harsh to judge him as shit, even though he might not have played well in those games. McGrath himself struggled when he first came to villa, as things are now we’d be judging him as shit on his first few months performances. I remember seeing Nigel Spink have a generally shit season the year after we came up from Div 1 in the late eighties, doesn’t mean he was a shit keeper.

Point is we are a bit quick to write players off

[paul_e]

But they played about half a season of games each, that's far too soon to decide that they can never be good enough, especially given they were both still U23 when they were with us. My point really is that we move from the 'give them time' to 'nah they're shit' stages far too quickly with young players.

Calling players like Elmo, Taylor, Lansbury, etc shit is different, they're at the peak of their career, they shouldn't need patience, you pay a premium (in wages at least) for them to come in and do a job straight away.

I just think anyone younger than 23-24 needs to have their age and experience taken into account more than we are often willing to do.

[john e]

Please don't go shit on us, like so many have in the past. It's not a big ask is it?

looks like des called it back in jan 2017

[Risso]

But they played about half a season of games each, that's far too soon to decide that they can never be good enough, especially given they were both still U23 when they were with us. My point really is that we move from the 'give them time' to 'nah they're shit' stages far too quickly with young players.

Calling players like Elmo, Taylor, Lansbury, etc shit is different, they're at the peak of their career, they shouldn't need patience, you pay a premium (in wages at least) for them to come in and do a job straight away.

I just think anyone younger than 23-24 needs to have their age and experience taken into account more than we are often willing to do.

You do know it's not a few dozen people on here who decide on whether to persevere with a player, right?

[Risso]

Please don't go shit on us, like so many have in the past. It's not a big ask is it?

looks like des called it back in jan 2017

For no reason whatsoever I dont think this transfer will be a success.

PeterWithe got it spot on.

[john e]

Please don't go shit on us, like so many have in the past. It's not a big ask is it?

looks like des called it back in jan 2017

For no reason whatsoever I dont think this transfer will be a success.

PeterWithe got it spot on.

the spirit of Derek Acoura lives on

[VILLA MOLE]

Please don't go shit on us, like so many have in the past. It's not a big ask is it?

looks like des called it back in jan 2017

In fairness he didn’t Go shit ,  it never changed