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Author Topic: Conor Hourihane - thanks and farewell  (Read 299809 times)

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #780 on: April 26, 2017, 02:45:41 PM »
We can sign the best players in the world but as Adam rightly points out above, unless we play them in their best position don't expect them to deliver their best.

Offline Risso

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #781 on: April 26, 2017, 03:20:25 PM »
We can sign the best players in the world but as Adam rightly points out above, unless we play them in their best position don't expect them to deliver their best.

That's my biggest criticism of Bruce this season, it's just a very vanilla, old school, transfer-window-by numbers approach.  That lad from Brentford has scored a few goals, we'll have him, and the Irish lad from Barnsley has set a few up, let's have him as well.  Very little thought seems to have gone in to it. 

Hogan and Kodjia are two extremely different types of player, but there doesn't seem to be a plan for is they play together, or if one replaces the other.  Same with Hourihane, he should be absolutely setting the place alight, but the lack of a settled formation and style of play means that we're not seeing the best of many players.

Online Drummond

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #782 on: April 26, 2017, 03:31:18 PM »
I agree, but we've signed so many that trying out formations and positions until we get the best out of them seems like a good idea. It's not as if they're bedding in to a settled team/squad.

The other thing I'd say is that the purchases aren't just down to Bruce, they clearly have a strategy that has Round and Wyness involved too.

My personal feeling is that going straight back up would have set us up to fail. Another season and the building of a squad and team ethic surely will help?

Offline peter w

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #783 on: April 26, 2017, 03:42:36 PM »
Whisper it quietly but it may take 2 more seasons. Next season to get the side better in terms of tempo and personnel, and then the 3rd season to rip the league up.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #784 on: April 26, 2017, 03:58:01 PM »
Whisper it quietly but it may take 2 more seasons. Next season to get the side better in terms of tempo and personnel, and then the 3rd season to rip the league up.

Sorry buddy but we clearly do not have that long

We have expensive players on big (for championship) pay contracts and the money drops off next year

We would lose  / have to sell our better players to support those on fat contracts not able to be sold or move on (think we have seen this somewhere before)

Next season or shit creek in my mind

Offline Risso

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #785 on: April 26, 2017, 04:46:59 PM »
I agree, but we've signed so many that trying out formations and positions until we get the best out of them seems like a good idea. It's not as if they're bedding in to a settled team/squad.

The other thing I'd say is that the purchases aren't just down to Bruce, they clearly have a strategy that has Round and Wyness involved too.

My personal feeling is that going straight back up would have set us up to fail. Another season and the building of a squad and team ethic surely will help?

Your might have a point on the last bit, but what happens if we lose say, Kodjia and Chester in the summer?  We're then scouting around for a new set of players, and all of the old excuses will come out again.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #786 on: April 26, 2017, 05:21:50 PM »
We can sign the best players in the world but as Adam rightly points out above, unless we play them in their best position don't expect them to deliver their best.

That's my biggest criticism of Bruce this season, it's just a very vanilla, old school, transfer-window-by numbers approach.  That lad from Brentford has scored a few goals, we'll have him, and the Irish lad from Barnsley has set a few up, let's have him as well.  Very little thought seems to have gone in to it. 

Hogan and Kodjia are two extremely different types of player, but there doesn't seem to be a plan for is they play together, or if one replaces the other.  Same with Hourihane, he should be absolutely setting the place alight, but the lack of a settled formation and style of play means that we're not seeing the best of many players.

As I understand it Bruce has the final say on transfers but it is but the scouting etc comes from elsewhere so any blame, or praise, is a collective rather than an individual issue. My view is that the work in January was done, to a large extent, with next season in mind. How they perform as a team, rather than as individuals, following a pre season together will be when they and Bruce can be fairly assessed.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #787 on: April 26, 2017, 06:13:10 PM »
The best I have seen him play so far was when he came on in a more attacking role against Bristol City.  I would certainly like to see him and Lansbury given more opportunity to get forward.

Offline Risso

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #788 on: April 26, 2017, 06:20:43 PM »
We can sign the best players in the world but as Adam rightly points out above, unless we play them in their best position don't expect them to deliver their best.

That's my biggest criticism of Bruce this season, it's just a very vanilla, old school, transfer-window-by numbers approach.  That lad from Brentford has scored a few goals, we'll have him, and the Irish lad from Barnsley has set a few up, let's have him as well.  Very little thought seems to have gone in to it. 

Hogan and Kodjia are two extremely different types of player, but there doesn't seem to be a plan for is they play together, or if one replaces the other.  Same with Hourihane, he should be absolutely setting the place alight, but the lack of a settled formation and style of play means that we're not seeing the best of many players.

As I understand it Bruce has the final say on transfers but it is but the scouting etc comes from elsewhere so any blame, or praise, is a collective rather than an individual issue. My view is that the work in January was done, to a large extent, with next season in mind. How they perform as a team, rather than as individuals, following a pre season together will be when they and Bruce can be fairly assessed.

I really dislike the "needs a pre-season" argument.  Why are we showing very little in the way of improvement at the latter end of the season despite the 30 odd games Bruce has had in charge.  Why is three weeks of training in July and a friendly against Walsall better preparation than training all season and playing actual league games?  Some players will leave, and some new ones will arrive, so it's not even that we'll start next season with the same squad we finish this one with.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #789 on: April 26, 2017, 07:04:10 PM »
We can sign the best players in the world but as Adam rightly points out above, unless we play them in their best position don't expect them to deliver their best.

That's my biggest criticism of Bruce this season, it's just a very vanilla, old school, transfer-window-by numbers approach.  That lad from Brentford has scored a few goals, we'll have him, and the Irish lad from Barnsley has set a few up, let's have him as well.  Very little thought seems to have gone in to it. 

Hogan and Kodjia are two extremely different types of player, but there doesn't seem to be a plan for is they play together, or if one replaces the other.  Same with Hourihane, he should be absolutely setting the place alight, but the lack of a settled formation and style of play means that we're not seeing the best of many players.

As I understand it Bruce has the final say on transfers but it is but the scouting etc comes from elsewhere so any blame, or praise, is a collective rather than an individual issue. My view is that the work in January was done, to a large extent, with next season in mind. How they perform as a team, rather than as individuals, following a pre season together will be when they and Bruce can be fairly assessed.

I really dislike the "needs a pre-season" argument.  Why are we showing very little in the way of improvement at the latter end of the season despite the 30 odd games Bruce has had in chjarge.  Why is three weeks of training in July and a friendly against Walsall better preparation than training all season and playing actual league games?  Some players will leave, and some new ones will arrive, so it's not even that we'll start next season with the same squad we finish this one with.

And yet clubs that are more settled going into the season appear to have a better chance than those that go through the type of churn we have over the last 12 months. It also seems to be the accepted wisdom amongst the professionals involved in the game. Of course we will change one or two but the core of the squad is now established, it is inconceivable that we will see anything approaching that level of change again.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #790 on: April 26, 2017, 07:22:27 PM »
We can sign the best players in the world but as Adam rightly points out above, unless we play them in their best position don't expect them to deliver their best.

That's my biggest criticism of Bruce this season, it's just a very vanilla, old school, transfer-window-by numbers approach.  That lad from Brentford has scored a few goals, we'll have him, and the Irish lad from Barnsley has set a few up, let's have him as well.  Very little thought seems to have gone in to it. 

Hogan and Kodjia are two extremely different types of player, but there doesn't seem to be a plan for is they play together, or if one replaces the other.  Same with Hourihane, he should be absolutely setting the place alight, but the lack of a settled formation and style of play means that we're not seeing the best of many players.

As I understand it Bruce has the final say on transfers but it is but the scouting etc comes from elsewhere so any blame, or praise, is a collective rather than an individual issue. My view is that the work in January was done, to a large extent, with next season in mind. How they perform as a team, rather than as individuals, following a pre season together will be when they and Bruce can be fairly assessed.

I really dislike the "needs a pre-season" argument.  Why are we showing very little in the way of improvement at the latter end of the season despite the 30 odd games Bruce has had in chjarge.  Why is three weeks of training in July and a friendly against Walsall better preparation than training all season and playing actual league games?  Some players will leave, and some new ones will arrive, so it's not even that we'll start next season with the same squad we finish this one with.

And yet clubs that are more settled going into the season appear to have a better chance than those that go through the type of churn we have over the last 12 months. It also seems to be the accepted wisdom amongst the professionals involved in the game. Of course we will change one or two but the core of the squad is now established, it is inconceivable that we will see anything approaching that level of change again.

I'm with Risso on this.  A pre-season does help in a number of ways but we're not going to suddenly change the way we play and look like a different team.  Bruce has had more time than anyone since Lambert and yet we're still making the same basic mistakes multiple times every game and every game he comes out afterwards and says we need to improve.  Hourihane and Lansbury don't look anything special because we're playing them out of position and Hogan looks lost because he's not got anyone within 30 yards of him for 90% of the match.  These aren't the sort of things that should have to wait until the summer, especially when we've had 5-6 'dead' games at the end of the season to use to try things out.


Aside from that Bruce doesn't have a great record of settling on a squad and making 1-2 adjustments when he has a bit of money to spend, 6-7 signings in the summer is his average if you look into it and everything he's said about the summer hints towards a lot more ins and outs so I don't think the 'settled squad' side of it holds up to much scrutiny.

Offline KRS

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #791 on: April 26, 2017, 07:31:35 PM »
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula.

Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.

Offline paul richard

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #792 on: April 26, 2017, 09:09:01 PM »
I agree with Risso re the pre-season argument.  I don't see how a break, a few warm ups and a friendly with Walsall is going to turn the team we've recently been watching in to promotion contenders.  From around the Derby game, when we turned a corner and the threat of being dragged too far down the league receded, it has been obvious to all that the last dozen or matches of this season were a chance to get the team in to shape for next season.  That meant not just sorting out the personnel but developing and improving the style and getting the mentality of the team right.  It appears that the back 6 including Jedi at the base of midfield looks like a settled combo, and Kodjia is clearly a success up front, but I have to say that with just 2 games remaining I see precious little progress sorting out the midfield and the wide positions.  Lansbury has been - for me - a disappointment, lacking the drive, pace and energy I thought he would bring, and Hourihane has failed to pull up trees to the extent that he has been displaced by the dismally mediocre Bacuna.  Notwithstanding a few assists Adomah looks bang average, lightweight and slow, and Jack, apart from one or two shining moments, looks subdued.  And Amavi and Hogan seem to be regressing rather than progressing.  There's no cohesion, ball retention is abysmal, and we end up on the back foot for long periods in matches whether we're playing Wigan or Fulham.  It's Bruce's job to sort this lot out and get a tune out of disparate parts, but as games go by, and team sheets display the name 'Bacuna' or 'Gardner', the fear grows in me that this may be as good as it gets with current personnel. 

Online LeeB

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #793 on: April 26, 2017, 09:15:09 PM »
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula.

Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.

I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.

I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.

Offline paul richard

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #794 on: April 26, 2017, 09:17:56 PM »
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula.

Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.

I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.

I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.

Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive.  We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now.  Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?

 


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