Quote from: LeeB on April 26, 2017, 09:15:09 PMQuote from: KRS on April 26, 2017, 07:31:35 PMGrasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula. Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right. I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive. We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now. Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?
Quote from: KRS on April 26, 2017, 07:31:35 PMGrasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula. Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right. I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula. Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.
Quote from: paul richard on April 26, 2017, 09:17:56 PMQuote from: LeeB on April 26, 2017, 09:15:09 PMQuote from: KRS on April 26, 2017, 07:31:35 PMGrasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula. Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right. I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive. We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now. Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?That's what no none us know, but then I'd argue that was the case for any realistic replacement too, many of which would come with much more risk.We can look at his record and see that he's done it several times before with different clubs, which is a about as good an indicator of capability he could have, we can also argue that his teams haven't really been noted for their flair, but also he's not been considered part of the Pulis/Allardyce axis of football brutalists.As the season ends, we have an experienced, respected manager, an engaged owner, Capable Keith Wyness and a team that has at least stopped being piss weak, something that had seemed ingrained forever.I think changing the manager this summer would an act of absolute stupidity.
Quote from: LeeB on April 26, 2017, 09:30:56 PMQuote from: paul richard on April 26, 2017, 09:17:56 PMQuote from: LeeB on April 26, 2017, 09:15:09 PMQuote from: KRS on April 26, 2017, 07:31:35 PMGrasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula. Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right. I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive. We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now. Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?That's what no none us know, but then I'd argue that was the case for any realistic replacement too, many of which would come with much more risk.We can look at his record and see that he's done it several times before with different clubs, which is a about as good an indicator of capability he could have, we can also argue that his teams haven't really been noted for their flair, but also he's not been considered part of the Pulis/Allardyce axis of football brutalists.As the season ends, we have an experienced, respected manager, an engaged owner, Capable Keith Wyness and a team that has at least stopped being piss weak, something that had seemed ingrained forever.I think changing the manager this summer would an act of absolute stupidity.On balance I agree, but we had better hit the ground running at the start of next season, both in terms of results and in style of play. The margin for error is very small.
Quote from: paul richard on April 26, 2017, 09:36:35 PMQuote from: LeeB on April 26, 2017, 09:30:56 PMQuote from: paul richard on April 26, 2017, 09:17:56 PMQuote from: LeeB on April 26, 2017, 09:15:09 PMQuote from: KRS on April 26, 2017, 07:31:35 PMGrasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula. Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right. I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive. We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now. Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?That's what no none us know, but then I'd argue that was the case for any realistic replacement too, many of which would come with much more risk.We can look at his record and see that he's done it several times before with different clubs, which is a about as good an indicator of capability he could have, we can also argue that his teams haven't really been noted for their flair, but also he's not been considered part of the Pulis/Allardyce axis of football brutalists.As the season ends, we have an experienced, respected manager, an engaged owner, Capable Keith Wyness and a team that has at least stopped being piss weak, something that had seemed ingrained forever.I think changing the manager this summer would an act of absolute stupidity.On balance I agree, but we had better hit the ground running at the start of next season, both in terms of results and in style of play. The margin for error is very small.We have to be more consistent over the whole season but the margin for error is not that small. Newcastle are going up having lost 10 games for example and there are teams in the play offs who have lost only two games fewer than us.
OK well it's a question of interpretation. Without being selective on statistics, the teams in the top 6 have all won many more games than us, and have generally done so with a style of play streets ahead of ours. We have considerable ground to make up. I think it can be done, but we will need a couple of players in with the creativity and drive that seems so absent from our performances just now, and we will need Bruce to make the right calls. I maintain that there's very little margin for error in that. If we don't start well, and find ourselves, say, outside the top 6 by October, then Bruce will be on thin ice.
Our home form is easily top 6.We need to win some more away games, only 4 won all season is pathetic.
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2017, 09:35:29 AMOur home form is easily top 6.We need to win some more away games, only 4 won all season is pathetic. Win more games, and score more goals. We have to absolutely annihilate this division next season. My worry is that a few weeks after Xia (or Wyness, forget who) saying that we'd only be adding two or three key players to the squad in the summer, Bruce was quoted after the Blues match as saying he still had a lot of dead wood to get rid of.
Quote from: Risso on April 27, 2017, 11:18:44 AMQuote from: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2017, 09:35:29 AMOur home form is easily top 6.We need to win some more away games, only 4 won all season is pathetic. Win more games, and score more goals. We have to absolutely annihilate this division next season. My worry is that a few weeks after Xia (or Wyness, forget who) saying that we'd only be adding two or three key players to the squad in the summer, Bruce was quoted after the Blues match as saying he still had a lot of dead wood to get rid of.I wouldn't worry too much. Don't we have something like 12 players out on loan? Then there's a few in this squad that we need to move on. Bringing in 3 "key" players makes sense whilst losing those that we don't need sounds about right.
If I could see just a glimmer of what Bruce is trying to achieve I'd be supportive of him for next season but right now I just don't see it. The only thing he's changed since taking over from RDM is getting the players to put in more effort, a standard requirement in this division. With the squad we have, the most expensive every assembled in this league, you'd hope and expect a little bit more than hard work. You say we need a couple of creative players but how certain are you Bruce wouldn't play them out of position or to their strengths?
Considering he bought the 2 top ranked box to box midfielders and one of the leading scores in the division and then proceeded to tactic / coach their ability to be underutilised and wasted worries me the most
True, but given as he was speaking after another poor performance, it sounded to me like he wanted to do a big rebuild.
Quote from: paul richard on April 26, 2017, 10:44:19 PMOK well it's a question of interpretation. Without being selective on statistics, the teams in the top 6 have all won many more games than us, and have generally done so with a style of play streets ahead of ours. We have considerable ground to make up. I think it can be done, but we will need a couple of players in with the creativity and drive that seems so absent from our performances just now, and we will need Bruce to make the right calls. I maintain that there's very little margin for error in that. If we don't start well, and find ourselves, say, outside the top 6 by October, then Bruce will be on thin ice.I think Bruce is already on thin ice, it's just the thought and fear of having to replace him is keeping him in the job for next season, plus beating the Rags obviously helped. If we'd lost that game his future would have been far less certain and serious questions would have been asked.If I could see just a glimmer of what Bruce is trying to achieve I'd be supportive of him for next season but right now I just don't see it. The only thing he's changed since taking over from RDM is getting the players to put in more effort, a standard requirement in this division. With the squad we have, the most expensive every assembled in this league, you'd hope and expect a little bit more than hard work. You say we need a couple of creative players but how certain are you Bruce wouldn't play them out of position or to their strengths?If he is to stay, I wish him all the best as the thought of trying to find a replacement for him mid-season scares me. We need to learn from that mistake and never, ever repeat it.