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Author Topic: Conor Hourihane - thanks and farewell  (Read 300006 times)

Online LeeB

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #795 on: April 26, 2017, 09:30:56 PM »
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula.

Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.

I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.

I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.

Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive.  We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now.  Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?

That's what no none us know, but then I'd argue that was the case for any realistic replacement too, many of which would come with much more risk.

We can look at his record and see that he's done it several times before with different clubs, which is a about as good an indicator of capability he could have, we can also argue that his teams haven't really been noted for their flair, but also he's not been considered part of the Pulis/Allardyce axis of football brutalists.

As the season ends, we have an experienced, respected manager, an engaged owner, Capable Keith Wyness and a team that has at least stopped being piss weak, something that had seemed ingrained forever.

I think changing the manager this summer would an act of absolute stupidity.

Offline paul richard

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #796 on: April 26, 2017, 09:36:35 PM »
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula.

Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.

I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.

I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.

Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive.  We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now.  Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?

That's what no none us know, but then I'd argue that was the case for any realistic replacement too, many of which would come with much more risk.

We can look at his record and see that he's done it several times before with different clubs, which is a about as good an indicator of capability he could have, we can also argue that his teams haven't really been noted for their flair, but also he's not been considered part of the Pulis/Allardyce axis of football brutalists.

As the season ends, we have an experienced, respected manager, an engaged owner, Capable Keith Wyness and a team that has at least stopped being piss weak, something that had seemed ingrained forever.

I think changing the manager this summer would an act of absolute stupidity.
On balance I agree, but we had better hit the ground running at the start of next season, both in terms of results and in style of play.  The margin for error is very small.

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #797 on: April 26, 2017, 10:26:04 PM »
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula.

Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.

I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.

I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.

Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive.  We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now.  Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?

That's what no none us know, but then I'd argue that was the case for any realistic replacement too, many of which would come with much more risk.

We can look at his record and see that he's done it several times before with different clubs, which is a about as good an indicator of capability he could have, we can also argue that his teams haven't really been noted for their flair, but also he's not been considered part of the Pulis/Allardyce axis of football brutalists.

As the season ends, we have an experienced, respected manager, an engaged owner, Capable Keith Wyness and a team that has at least stopped being piss weak, something that had seemed ingrained forever.

I think changing the manager this summer would an act of absolute stupidity.
On balance I agree, but we had better hit the ground running at the start of next season, both in terms of results and in style of play.  The margin for error is very small.

We have to be more consistent over the whole season but the margin for error is not that small. Newcastle are going up having lost 10 games for example and there are teams in the play offs who have lost only two games fewer than us.

Offline paul richard

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #798 on: April 26, 2017, 10:44:19 PM »
Grasping at straws here a little but may be the pressure of getting results during the season in order to avoid a relegation fight has forced his hand some what in terms of the tried and tested tactics that Bruce has been using, and as a result, he has had to play certain players out of position in order to do that. In addition, if there are a few pieces to the jigsaw missing that doesn't allow Bruce to set up the team utilising the players in their correct positions and with a more attacking style of play then he's even more inclined to stick to the tried and tested formula.

Personally I agree with (what appears to be) the majority that Bruce is an old school manager and what we've been seeing is the Bruce way, and that is unlikely to change...however, until Wyness and Xia roll the dice it is up to Bruce to prove us wrong...or prove us right.

I don't think you're clutching at straws at all, I think you're bang on the money.

I also think that that pragmatism is exactly what we get from employing him over a more adventurous coach, and would argue it was exactly what was required to stop us potentially free falling straight out of this division this season.

Agreed, but at some stage pragmatism has to morph into something much more positive.  We won't get out of this league playing as we are right now.  Is Bruce the man to change things for the better?

That's what no none us know, but then I'd argue that was the case for any realistic replacement too, many of which would come with much more risk.

We can look at his record and see that he's done it several times before with different clubs, which is a about as good an indicator of capability he could have, we can also argue that his teams haven't really been noted for their flair, but also he's not been considered part of the Pulis/Allardyce axis of football brutalists.

As the season ends, we have an experienced, respected manager, an engaged owner, Capable Keith Wyness and a team that has at least stopped being piss weak, something that had seemed ingrained forever.

I think changing the manager this summer would an act of absolute stupidity.
On balance I agree, but we had better hit the ground running at the start of next season, both in terms of results and in style of play.  The margin for error is very small.

We have to be more consistent over the whole season but the margin for error is not that small. Newcastle are going up having lost 10 games for example and there are teams in the play offs who have lost only two games fewer than us.
OK well it's a question of interpretation.  Without being selective on statistics, the teams in the top 6 have all won many more games than us, and have generally done so with a style of play streets ahead of ours.  We have considerable ground to make up.  I think it can be done, but we will need a couple of players in with the creativity and drive that seems so absent from our performances just now, and we will need Bruce to make the right calls.  I maintain that there's very little margin for error in that.  If we don't start well, and find ourselves, say, outside the top 6 by October, then Bruce will be on thin ice.

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #799 on: April 27, 2017, 06:22:42 AM »
There's plenty of margin for error

This league is shit. More creative quality is needed. It mT be that we can squeeze a lot more out of the likes of Lansbury hourihane grealish and green

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #800 on: April 27, 2017, 09:35:29 AM »
Our home form is easily top 6.

We need to win some more away games, only 4 won all season is pathetic.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #801 on: April 27, 2017, 11:15:39 AM »
OK well it's a question of interpretation.  Without being selective on statistics, the teams in the top 6 have all won many more games than us, and have generally done so with a style of play streets ahead of ours.  We have considerable ground to make up.  I think it can be done, but we will need a couple of players in with the creativity and drive that seems so absent from our performances just now, and we will need Bruce to make the right calls.  I maintain that there's very little margin for error in that.  If we don't start well, and find ourselves, say, outside the top 6 by October, then Bruce will be on thin ice.

I think Bruce is already on thin ice, it's just the thought and fear of having to replace him is keeping him in the job for next season, plus beating the Rags obviously helped. If we'd lost that game his future would have been far less certain and serious questions would have been asked.

If I could see just a glimmer of what Bruce is trying to achieve I'd be supportive of him for next season but right now I just don't see it. The only thing he's changed since taking over from RDM is getting the players to put in more effort, a standard requirement in this division. With the squad we have, the most expensive every assembled in this league, you'd hope and expect a little bit more than hard work. You say we need a couple of creative players but how certain are you Bruce wouldn't play them out of position or to their strengths?

If he is to stay, I wish him all the best as the thought of trying to find a replacement for him mid-season scares me. We need to learn from that mistake and never, ever repeat it.

Offline Risso

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #802 on: April 27, 2017, 11:18:44 AM »
Our home form is easily top 6.

We need to win some more away games, only 4 won all season is pathetic.

Win more games, and score more goals.  We have to absolutely annihilate this division next season.  My worry is that a few weeks after Xia (or Wyness, forget who) saying that we'd only be adding two or three key players to the squad in the summer, Bruce was quoted after the Blues match as saying he still had a lot of dead wood to get rid of.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #803 on: April 27, 2017, 11:26:44 AM »
Our home form is easily top 6.

We need to win some more away games, only 4 won all season is pathetic.

Win more games, and score more goals.  We have to absolutely annihilate this division next season.  My worry is that a few weeks after Xia (or Wyness, forget who) saying that we'd only be adding two or three key players to the squad in the summer, Bruce was quoted after the Blues match as saying he still had a lot of dead wood to get rid of.

I wouldn't worry too much. Don't we have something like 12 players out on loan? Then there's a few in this squad that we need to move on. Bringing in 3 "key" players makes sense whilst losing those that we don't need sounds about right.

Offline Risso

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #804 on: April 27, 2017, 11:29:06 AM »
Our home form is easily top 6.

We need to win some more away games, only 4 won all season is pathetic.

Win more games, and score more goals.  We have to absolutely annihilate this division next season.  My worry is that a few weeks after Xia (or Wyness, forget who) saying that we'd only be adding two or three key players to the squad in the summer, Bruce was quoted after the Blues match as saying he still had a lot of dead wood to get rid of.

I wouldn't worry too much. Don't we have something like 12 players out on loan? Then there's a few in this squad that we need to move on. Bringing in 3 "key" players makes sense whilst losing those that we don't need sounds about right.

True, but given as he was speaking after another poor performance, it sounded to me like he wanted to do a big rebuild.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #805 on: April 27, 2017, 11:34:23 AM »
Quote
If I could see just a glimmer of what Bruce is trying to achieve I'd be supportive of him for next season but right now I just don't see it. The only thing he's changed since taking over from RDM is getting the players to put in more effort, a standard requirement in this division. With the squad we have, the most expensive every assembled in this league, you'd hope and expect a little bit more than hard work. You say we need a couple of creative players but how certain are you Bruce wouldn't play them out of position or to their strengths?

very well put

Considering he bought the 2 top ranked box to box midfielders and one of the leading scores in the division and then proceeded to tactic / coach their ability to be underutilised and wasted worries me the most

Online paul_e

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #806 on: April 27, 2017, 11:42:52 AM »
Considering he bought the 2 top ranked box to box midfielders and one of the leading scores in the division and then proceeded to tactic / coach their ability to be underutilised and wasted worries me the most

100% this.  Being able to see the problem and being able to see a player that could resolve it is great, doing that and then playing them in a different role is just odd.

True, but given as he was speaking after another poor performance, it sounded to me like he wanted to do a big rebuild.

I'm honestly not sure he can control himself in that regard.  As I said earlier over all the seasons I could be bothered to check he averages about 7 signings (and about 4 in January).  I just don't see that changing.  I can see 3-4 gaps he will want to fill (winger with pace, backup centre half, target man, keeper) and that's without anyone leaving (except maybe Johnstone hence keeper is included).  Amavi looks like going so we'll need another left back, that' half a team already and there's bound to be another couple in and out.  Even bringing someone like Veretout back and trying to get him involved would mean a new face for most of the squad.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #807 on: April 27, 2017, 01:33:36 PM »
OK well it's a question of interpretation.  Without being selective on statistics, the teams in the top 6 have all won many more games than us, and have generally done so with a style of play streets ahead of ours.  We have considerable ground to make up.  I think it can be done, but we will need a couple of players in with the creativity and drive that seems so absent from our performances just now, and we will need Bruce to make the right calls.  I maintain that there's very little margin for error in that.  If we don't start well, and find ourselves, say, outside the top 6 by October, then Bruce will be on thin ice.

I think Bruce is already on thin ice, it's just the thought and fear of having to replace him is keeping him in the job for next season, plus beating the Rags obviously helped. If we'd lost that game his future would have been far less certain and serious questions would have been asked.

If I could see just a glimmer of what Bruce is trying to achieve I'd be supportive of him for next season but right now I just don't see it. The only thing he's changed since taking over from RDM is getting the players to put in more effort, a standard requirement in this division. With the squad we have, the most expensive every assembled in this league, you'd hope and expect a little bit more than hard work. You say we need a couple of creative players but how certain are you Bruce wouldn't play them out of position or to their strengths?

If he is to stay, I wish him all the best as the thought of trying to find a replacement for him mid-season scares me. We need to learn from that mistake and never, ever repeat it.

Agree with most of that.

After the 1-1 draw against the Rags in October and the recent 1-0, the stock response is level of performance doesn't matter in a derby. It's all about the result.  The issue with that is we've continued to play that way for most of Bruce's tenure, suggesting it is more design than accident at this point.

And speaking of derbies; the Barnsley side that beat Leeds with Hourihane and Bree in it in January did so by playing football. There is another way.  We have just been conditioned into thinking derby/ this league = attritional boofball is required.   

Online LeeB

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #808 on: April 27, 2017, 02:46:03 PM »
I haven't been conditioned, just aware that getting from being utterly hopeless for half a decade and the first third of this season to a fluid, attractive team may require a period of dull pragmatism in between.

Offline class-of-82

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Re: Conor Hourihane - SIGNED
« Reply #809 on: April 27, 2017, 04:16:26 PM »
Bruce needs to identify these "key players" and get negotiations going quck as there will be 3 teams getting relegated with a minimum of £100 million to spend.

 


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