Herbert Ellis

[SoccerHQ]

For me the dreaded date of May 20th 2000 changed everything. Nearly 21 years on and we still haven't got back up to the general standing we had going into that game.

With Ellis of course damage was done when he came back right after the euro win and messed everything up but at least he rectified things with appointing Graham Taylor and generally moving on managers when it was right and appointing good fits to follow.

Well not so much Dr Jo but as mentioned someone of his ilk would've worked more a decade later. Realised that after the one season and got in Big Ron who got us thinking big again. Then the more thoughtful approach of Brian Little paid off very well for first two and a bit years. Even Gregory had us dreaming for a bit. If he hadn't been given a new long term deal about two weeks before the cup final he wouldn't have lasted very long the next season. Instead he had luxury of taking pot shots at Doug in the press, remember the timewarp interview?!

Anyway if we'd won the cup in 2000 it would've been a decade of numerous top 6 finishes including two 2nd finishes, two league cups, the odd good european run and holy grail of FA cup.

Instead we lost and football was changing. Chelsea were one of the clubs that wised up to what was happening with Bosman and looking at their team with likes of Desailly, Deschamps and Zola they were ahead while our side was more workmanlike and we were overpaying for British players.

I would defend Ellis approach in 90s but from 2000 onwards we ceased to become a top 6 club in thinking and many over took us and we didn't start finishing ahead of many of those teams again until the Lerner era started.

Key players all wanted to leave for likes of Middlesborough and we just plodded along in 8th just happy to be top half. Thought we might have more of a go as O'Leary was at the time a genuinely ambitious move (arguably the most exciting managerial appointment since Big Ron considering SBL wasn't that proven in top flight when he came from Leicester) but he got a minimal budget and started to get found out within 18 months.

Lerner period showed running a football club isn't easy and he had basically hardly anyone questioning his decisions for first three seasons. NSWE having a similar honeymoon period but I suspect the next two years will be trickier in terms of key decisions.

[Mister E]

The damage was done in the mid-1990's. Some clubs realised that the Premier League was money heaven and went for it big-style. HDE continued to run the club cautiously, without recognising that he needed to push the boat out and start acting like one of the elite.
Hindsight tells me that he should have either found a co-investor or sold out (keeping an earn-out on future success) some time around 1996-7 (the time when other clubs started to create clear space between themselves and the rest).

To be fair, the fans saw that the opportunity was being spurned; hence the Ellis-Out campaigns organised by the various groups around 2001-2.

[Villan82]

Yes, that FA cup final was a bit of a turning point. We froze on the day and the hangover of that was bad with so many players wanting out and all the doom and gloom.

I think that's why so many of us sort of erased that day from memory. We had such high hopes, genuinely nothing between us and Chelsea, and we just didn't perform on the day.

[Damo70]

To be fair to Doug he pulled out some inspired managerial signings. Getting SGT was a real coup, Dr Jo was a brave choice and again to be fair to Doug he quickly got rid when it failed. Getting BFR who won a trophy was a great decision and Little also won a trophy. Gregory had us briefly at the top of the table and in a cup final and dreaming for a short while. Even O'Leary had a good first season after the SGT MKII experiment went wrong.
Of course we were also League runners up twice in the early nineties.

[dave.woodhall]

I don't want to plough the same furrow again, but Sir Graham appointed us, DrJo was about seventeenth choice, BFR was a no-brainer and Brian was always going to be our next manager at that time. Gregory was the real wasted opportunity and O'Leary was the only time there wasn't one outstanding candidate and we got the right one.

[Exeter 77]

I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.

[AlexAlexCropley]

Graham Turner? Billy McNeill? Desperate appointments.

[Risso]

Ellis was of the time when you could own a top division football club as a reasonably wealthy provincial businessman. He stayed on too long, and completely missed the boat in terms of the marketing opportunity the Premier League era ushered in. Now of course, if you're not owned by one of the world's richest men, you haven't got a chance.

[KevinGage]

Yes, that FA cup final was a bit of a turning point. We froze on the day and the hangover of that was bad with so many players wanting out and all the doom and gloom.

I think that's why so many of us sort of erased that day from memory. We had such high hopes, genuinely nothing between us and Chelsea, and we just didn't perform on the day.

Bulldozing the Trinity Road stand that summer didn't help the general mood of the camp either. Moreso for fans than players, admittedly.

[KevinGage]

I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.

We wanted BFR but he'd just been relegated with Wednesday and felt obliged to get them back up.

According to his book, anyroad.

[dave.woodhall]

I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.

We wanted BFR but he'd just been relegated with Wednesday and felt obliged to get them back up.

According to his book, anyroad.

And we were turned down by the managers of Bristol City and Rovers.

[LeeB]

I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.

We wanted BFR but he'd just been relegated with Wednesday and felt obliged to get them back up.

According to his book, anyroad.

And we were turned down by the managers of Bristol City and Rovers.

And I would imagine much of the reluctance in taking the job would've been down to the individual offering it.

[cdbearsfan]

Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis, according to Google. They must have been insane to turn Villa down.

[dave.woodhall]

Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis, according to Google. They must have been insane to turn Villa down.

See above, plus I suppose there was the knowledge that the previous manager had done such an incredible job that they were never going to emulate him.

[LeeB]

Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis, according to Google. They must have been insane to turn Villa down.

Gerry Francis and his mullet. Remember singing "Gerry Francis, Gerry Francis, what a difference you have made" at Spurs in his first game, a mental last minute 4-3 win down there after giving up a 3 goal lead, was our next game after sacking Ron.