Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on January 03, 2017, 03:05:17 PM
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Is 93 today. Is it me or does he seem to have been 93 since he sold up?!
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Fix
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Strangely no one seems to have predicted him shuffling off on the Zsa Zsa Gabor thread. Is he going to live forever?
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The old curmudgeon allows me a smile when I see him now. His time has come and gone and for all the damage he's done he was probably the last of the old style owners. Happy birthday doug.
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Is 93 today. Is it me or does he seem to have been 93 since he sold up?!
No he was 99 then.
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200 pages
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Fix
Nope you told me yourself it doesn't exist.
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Strangely no one seems to have predicted him shuffling off on the Zsa Zsa Gabor thread. Is he going to live forever?
I did!
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Ninety-three? Wow!
Happy birthday, Doug.
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Ninety-three? Wow!
Happy birthday, Doug.
Happy Birthday to the inventor of the bycycle kick.
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BFR said in his book one of Lerners achievements was to make Doug look good. Happy Birthday Sir Doug
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From the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/25/conservatives-raise-16m-in-second-week-of-election-campaign)
Conservatives raise £1.6m in second week of election campaign
Labour and Lib Dems raised £383,000 and £160,000 respectively in week leading up to 16 May, Electoral Commission data shows Donors to Theresa May’s party include Doug Ellis, the former chairman of Aston Villa football club.
Rajeev Syal and Holly Watt
Thursday 25 May 2017 15.12 BST Last modified on Thursday 25 May 2017 16.23 BST
The Conservatives have raised more than £1.6m during the second week of the general election campaign, more than doubling the combined donations to all the other political parties over the same period, figures show.
Donors to Theresa May’s party include a firm controlled by the founders of Betfred, the bookmakers, and Doug Ellis, the former chairman of Aston Villa football club.
Details are contained within the latest release of Electoral Commission data unveiling the major donors to each political party in the week leading up to 16 May.
They show that Labour raised just under £383,000 while the Liberal Democrats brought in £160,000.
Ukip’s donations have slowed down, with the party being given just £35,000. The Women’s Equality party and the Green party raised less than £19,000 each.
Figures released on Tuesday showed the Tories received £5.46m from January to March this year, more than twice the £2.65m given to Labour.
The new data shows that the firm Rainy City Investments has given £100,000 to the Tories. The firm’s directors are Peter and Fred Done, the owners of Betfred, which has more than 1,300 betting shops across the UK.
The brothers, who are from Salford, bought the Tote in 2011 in a bid backed by the former Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson.
Ellis, under his full name of Sir Herbert D Ellis, has donated £66,666 to the Tories this month. He received a knighthood under David Cameron’s government.
The Tories’ two biggest donations, each worth £150,000, came from Investors In Private Capital Ltd, and Andrew C Green, an investment adviser to equity funds.
Billionaires Simon and David Reuben are directors of Investors In Private Capital. The brothers made their fortune in Russian aluminium in the 1990s but have since established themselves as London-based property investors.
Michael Lewis, a fund manager and the former a former vice-president of the pro-Israel lobbying group Bicom, has given £100,000 to the Conservative campaign.
The Tories also received £100,000 from Lord John Sainsbury, the president of the supermarket chain, and £125,000 from Steven Parkin, a Leeds-based businessman.
Lubov Chernukhin, a banker who is a UK citizen, has given £12,500 to the Tories. Chernukhin’s husband, Vladimir, was Russia’s former deputy foreign minister during Vladimir Putin’s first term as Russian president. She has previously handed over more than £300,000 to the party or the offices of its MPs, records show.
Labour’s large donations over this period came almost exclusively from unions. Its most generous donation of £290,125 came from the moderate GMB union.
The Liberal Democrats received their biggest donation of the campaign so far of £100,000 from Mark Petterson, the director of a large wind farm.
Last week, it emerged that the Conservatives had raised £1.5m more than Labour in the first week of the general election campaign, receiving more than £4.1m while Labour raised just over £2.7m.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
£66,666 is a weirdly specific number but is also much more sensible if you view it as 1/3 of £200k or 2/3 of 100k (or many other scales) so I'd suggest it's part of a series of donations. Without going through all the records it's hard to say just how much it would be.
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Diabolical Doug.
It all makes sense now.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
£66,666 is a weirdly specific number but is also much more sensible if you view it as 1/3 of £200k or 2/3 of 100k (or many other scales) so I'd suggest it's part of a series of donations. Without going through all the records it's hard to say just how much it would be.
*Plays theme from Omen in head *
In this fucked up world we live in, it's almost comforting to know I've still got good reason to dislike him.
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Like a lot of Villa fans I want to find something positive to say about Mr Ellis. Apart from his age which is grand not very much else.
Perhaps the new style ownership of clubs is not such a bad thing after all.
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I will be happy when his name comes off the stand.There is a respect for old gents I know.But I don't like egotists,especially ones who had a grip of my club,a lot of it detrimental.To hear he contributes to a party that I also can't abide just reinforces my 'uncharitable' views of the man.
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Not that I have a history of being fair to Doug, but Sutton Coldfield nonagenarian multi-millionaire supports the Tories is up there with the toilet habits of bears and the chosen religion of popes. It's not like he's ever hidden it. For me this is more a story about how a party that gets the bulk of political funding also happens to be the one that cries foul if a union supports - to a massively lesser extent - their main opposition.
I do wonder though if Theresa May is like a son to Doug. Let's hope he's showing her the rose garden next month.
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I agree let's revert to it original name, Witton Lane, get rid of HDE stand while he's alive. Far better individuals deserve a stand named after their passing than Doug (while he was in his eighties?)
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I agree let's revert to it original name, Witton Lane, get rid of HDE stand while he's alive.
What would be the point in making it vindictive?
He's an old, ill man. He's not going to be around much longer.
I disagree with a lot (most) of things he did at the club, but there's just no point being angry about a 90 (or so) year old any more.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
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He's taken this President Emeritus thing a little too literally and plans on living forever.
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Don't Do It Doug!
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I will be happy when his name comes off the stand.There is a respect for old gents I know.But I don't like egotists,especially ones who had a grip of my club,a lot of it detrimental.To hear he contributes to a party that I also can't abide just reinforces my 'uncharitable' views of the man.
I think this has been discussed in other threads but probably everyone still refers to the Witton Stand as the Witton Stand. I didn't agree with the renaming of the Witton Stand in Doug's honour but his name should be removed after he has gone. There are more deserving names in our history - George Ramsey, Frederick Rinder or Ron Saunders to name a few but I would prefer it is known as the Witton Stand officially in the future.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
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Not that I have a history of being fair to Doug, but Sutton Coldfield nonagenarian multi-millionaire supports the Tories is up there with the toilet habits of bears and the chosen religion of popes. It's not like he's ever hidden it. For me this is more a story about how a party that gets the bulk of political funding also happens to be the one that cries foul if a union supports - to a massively lesser extent - their main opposition.
I do wonder though if Theresa May is like a son to Doug. Let's hope he's showing her the rose garden next month.
Or bicycle kicking her off the yacht in the Côte d'Azur.
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Well done doug, better give your money to the conservative party than to the lefty who masquerades as the Labour leader and would bankrupt this country in 12 months if he got in
Corbyn is a joke!
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Well done doug, better give your money to the conservative party than to the lefty who masquerades as the Labour leader and would bankrupt this country in 12 months if he got in
Corbyn is a joke!
You are the Daily Mail and I claim my £5.
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Well, that is a well reasoned opinion. Made me think.
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Tears down Vote Labour poster from front window.
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2 League cups, regular European football, top 4 finishes......
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2 League cups, regular European football, top 4 finishes......
Fair point. I would have that back right about now.
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Randy Lerner would seem a competent owner if you only count the good seasons and ignore anything bad that ever happened.
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In fairness to Doug we have been more successful under the Tories than Labour.
Last FA Cup win under MacMillan. Did we ever have it so we good ? Well yes, Mrs T saw us win the League and rule Europe (Happy Rotterdam day by the way). Harold Wilson got us relegated and it took the combined efforts of Doug and Mr Heath to bring us back from the Third Division to where we belong.
Admittedly it was an utter disaster with Cameron but I put that down to his confusion regarding his claret and blue allegiance as opposed to his Conservative politics.
In conclusion, I shall therefore be making a very substantial donation to the Lib Dems.
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Shouldn't this thread be in off topic if politics takes priority?
Fact is Wendy were
One of the the most successful clubs during the 90s under Douglas, let's just enjoy those days.
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Randy Lerner would seem a competent owner if you only count the good seasons and ignore anything bad that ever happened.
How many cups and top four finishes did Mr Lerner achieve?
Even in Dougs relegation he manged
To acquire Sir Graham from Watford.
Please never compare Lerners tenure with Dougs.
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We are discussing HDE and he is a major donor to the Conservative party. He made the vast majority of his wealth from Aston Villa FC so a political dimension to this thread is inevitable. I personally feel unhappy that a few pennies of his political largesse came from the money I paid for Villa shares.
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If you only focus on the good, you can make either seem decent.
Lerner had us achieve three successive top six finishes, which Ellis never did.
Ellis got us relegated within five years of returning to take over the European Champions. He deserves recognition for appointing Taylor, but also condemnation for employing O'Leary, Turner and McNeill. He would also have got rid of Ron Saunders had he got his own way.
I'm perfectly happy with recognising the better achievements we made during his two spells as Chairman, but see no point in applying a Stalinist approach and eliminating from history all the bad things that happened during his tenure.
People should consider good and bad spells of his reign, today of all days.
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What should also be put in the scales of HDE's record is the destruction of the Trinity architecture and it's replacement with Kwik Build Flatpackery. I hate the word icon but it was an icon in three fields - architecture, urban social history and football history. HDE turned it to rubble but worse still was proud of what he did. The ultimate football Philistine.
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2 top four consecutive finishes wasn't too shabby.
Two league cups and two runners up weren't too unejoyable either.
Man Utd also appointed David Moyes.
Oh and O'Leary almost got us champions league football and Doug had one relegation with an immediate return.
I'm a 90s kid so You will never convince me otherwise. Leave the politics to another topic though gents.
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What should also be put in the scales of HDE's record is the destruction of the Trinity architecture and it's replacement with Kwik Build Flatpackery. I hate the word icon but it was an icon in three fields - architecture, urban social history and football history. HDE turned it to rubble but worse still was proud of what he did. The ultimate football Philistine.
The problem we face with many old buildings. How do we make them safe, fit for purpose and the work economically feasible. Football clubs probably take the biggest hit as it can hit performances on the pitch due to less investment.
Saying that, I think a far better redevelopment could have been achieved at no more cost and that recognised the architecture and history of the Trinity Road stand.
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Doug had two relegations. We also won the European Cup while he was away. Not sure why you are unwilling to consider any bad things that happened while he was here.
Trying to pretend O'Leary was anything but an unmitigated disaster is scraping the barrel.
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Another Doug Ellis debate. Joy.
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Well, if it's a political thread, austerity is the result of uncontrolled spending way beyond your means. There always comes a day of reckoning. Oh, back on Villa.
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Well, if it's a political thread, austerity is the result of uncontrolled spending way beyond your means. There always comes a day of reckoning. Oh, back on Villa.
Who spent beyond their means?
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I'm struggling to see what all the fuss is about, the payment is simply Doug's final installment for his knighthood.
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Of course Rudy. Lay away honours.
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Enough about this ex-Birmingham City board member.
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Randy Lerner would seem a competent owner if you only count the good seasons and ignore anything bad that ever happened.
How many cups and top four finishes did Mr Lerner achieve?
Even in Dougs relegation he manged
To acquire Sir Graham from Watford.
Please never compare Lerners tenure with Dougs.
So, you compare Lerner and Ellis and then tell the rest of us not to do the same.
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Well, if it's a political thread, austerity is the result of uncontrolled spending way beyond your means. There always comes a day of reckoning. Oh, back on Villa.
Who spent beyond their means?
Anybody that has had to tighten their belt severely.
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Well, if it's a political thread, austerity is the result of uncontrolled spending way beyond your means. There always comes a day of reckoning. Oh, back on Villa.
Who spent beyond their means?
Anybody that has had to tighten their belt severely.
Those on the lower rungs of the economic ladder now were working in the higher echelons of the banking system ten years ago at places such as RBS ?
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Randy Lerner would seem a competent owner if you only count the good seasons and ignore anything bad that ever happened.
How many cups and top four finishes did Mr Lerner achieve?
Even in Dougs relegation he manged
To acquire Sir Graham from Watford.
Please never compare Lerners tenure with Dougs.
You right you can't compare Lerner to Ellis. Lerner only took us from 6th to relegation in 6 years, whereas Ellis took us from Champions Of Europe to relegation in 5 years.
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What should also be put in the scales of HDE's record is the destruction of the Trinity architecture and it's replacement with Kwik Build Flatpackery. I hate the word icon but it was an icon in three fields - architecture, urban social history and football history. HDE turned it to rubble but worse still was proud of what he did. The ultimate football Philistine.
Tell it, Mr Green.
Of all his many phuck ups that is the one that still cuts deep. And all for the sake of an extra 3-4000 (usually empty) seats.
But good ol' Doug loves the club, or something.
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Old man spends his money, dafuq to do with you bruv?
Is how I feel about this story.
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2 top four consecutive finishes wasn't too shabby.
When was that then?
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Ellis destroyed our standing, our tradition and then to remodel the club on himself Sorry but cannot like the guy
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Randy Lerner would seem a competent owner if you only count the good seasons and ignore anything bad that ever happened.
How many cups and top four finishes did Mr Lerner achieve?
Even in Dougs relegation he manged
To acquire Sir Graham from Watford.
Please never compare Lerners tenure with Dougs.
So, you compare Lerner and Ellis and then tell the rest of us not to do the same.
Everybody Else Is Doing It So Why Can't We?
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Trying to pretend O'Leary was anything but an unmitigated disaster is scraping the barrel.
We did have a very good second half of the 2003-4 season, finishing just outside Europe, and playing some great football. I recall the ground was rocking in games against Chelsea and Spurs.
Overall, O'Leary was shit but we did have that one good season under him.
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200 pages
LOL I'm taking the over
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What should also be put in the scales of HDE's record is the destruction of the Trinity architecture and it's replacement with Kwik Build Flatpackery. I hate the word icon but it was an icon in three fields - architecture, urban social history and football history. HDE turned it to rubble but worse still was proud of what he did. The ultimate football Philistine.
Yes, this is his lasting legacy.
To think that opposite where that beautiful stand stood is the tribute to his ego.
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Remember the brown and red cladding he put over the back of the Holte?
Brown and fucking Red.
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So the European Cup was won on his birthday. Bet he wasn't there.
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So the European Cup was won on his birthday. Bet he wasn't there.
This is a resurrected thread - his birthday is 3rd January.
No, he wasn't in Rotterdam. The story is that he had returned from a holiday in Barbados but due to industrial action at Heathrow he couldn't get over there in time.
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So the European Cup was won on his birthday. Bet he wasn't there.
This is a resurrected thread - his birthday is 3rd January.
No, he wasn't in Rotterdam. The story is that he had returned from a holiday in Barbados but due to industrial action at Heathrow he couldn't get over there in time.
Some fucking travel agent.
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Trying to pretend O'Leary was anything but an unmitigated disaster is scraping the barrel.
We did have a very good second half of the 2003-4 season, finishing just outside Europe, and playing some great football. I recall the ground was rocking in games against Chelsea and Spurs.
Overall, O'Leary was shit but we did have that one good season under him.
We had a good second half of the season and were one game away from qualifying for Europe under Sherwood. Indeed, we would've qualified if the same rules that existed during O'Leary's spell were in place. He was still shite. As was O'Leary.
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So the European Cup was won on his birthday. Bet he wasn't there.
This is a resurrected thread - his birthday is 3rd January.
No, he wasn't in Rotterdam. The story is that he had returned from a holiday in Barbados but due to industrial action at Heathrow he couldn't get over there in time.
He's also claimed to have been stuck in Amsterdam, Paris and "my own Villa in Spain".
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So the European Cup was won on his birthday. Bet he wasn't there.
This is a resurrected thread - his birthday is 3rd January.
No, he wasn't in Rotterdam. The story is that he had returned from a holiday in Barbados but due to industrial action at Heathrow he couldn't get over there in time.
Some fucking travel agent.
Bastard.
I've just spilled red wine down a white shirt.
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An anecdote that throws light on his personality. We had a runner at Southwell that we had some industrial strength money on. Herbert was there with his entourage in the dining room. One of his guests knew me and invited me to join them. Ellis with his two quid Tote tickets spread on the table proceeded to give me a long lecture on horse betting and horse racing in general. Even when I excused myself to go to receive the trophy he was still giving me the benefit of his advice. Nothing he was not an expert on.
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Trying to pretend O'Leary was anything but an unmitigated disaster is scraping the barrel.
We did have a very good second half of the 2003-4 season, finishing just outside Europe, and playing some great football. I recall the ground was rocking in games against Chelsea and Spurs.
Overall, O'Leary was shit but we did have that one good season under him.
We had a good second half of the season and were one game away from qualifying for Europe under Sherwood. Indeed, we would've qualified if the same rules that existed during O'Leary's spell were in place. He was still shite. As was O'Leary.
True. But under O'Leary we would have qualified through our league position. Under Sherwood it was purely an upsurge resulting in a cup run, not a prolonged surge in the league.
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We definitely had a good run in the league under Sherwood. That's why we stayed up. Anyway, I'm not trying to claim he was any good either!
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
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What should also be put in the scales of HDE's record is the destruction of the Trinity architecture and it's replacement with Kwik Build Flatpackery. I hate the word icon but it was an icon in three fields - architecture, urban social history and football history. HDE turned it to rubble but worse still was proud of what he did. The ultimate football Philistine.
Agree 100%, I also wish Randy would have been here as chairman when The Trinity Road stand was 'redeveloped ' as for all the criticism of him I think Randy would have retained the heritage at all costs base on what he did for the Holte Hotel amongst others.
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I do wonder how an Ellis-less Villa would have fared, if only. He took more out of Villa than what he put in.
Sooner his name is off the stand the better.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
It would appear you're not aware of quite a few things - but hey ho! Fingers crossed it's not early signs of dementia as it would be awful for you to lose your home paying for social care as this government have recently proposed in their manifesto (along with cutting winter fuel payments to vulnerable pensioners). Saying that let's hope you or any of your family, relatives or friends don't fall ill at any time in the near future and need to use the NHS. You know the NHS that the party you're so eagerly defending are hell bent on dismantling. Do any of those policies come across to you as pathetic? Amoral? Dangerous? Or do you just want to get back to calling (and assuming) people are communists for having that opinion - Buddy?
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I do wonder how an Ellis-less Villa would have fared,
It's a bit like asking how a Thatcher-less UK would have fared. We will never know.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
It would appear you're not aware of quite a few things - but hey ho! Fingers crossed it's not early signs of dementia as it would be awful for you to lose your home paying for social care as this government have recently proposed in their manifesto (along with cutting winter fuel payments to vulnerable pensioners). Saying that let's hope you or any of your family, relatives or friends don't fall ill at any time in the near future and need to use the NHS. You know the NHS that the party you're so eagerly defending are hell bent on dismantling. Do any of those policies come across to you as pathetic? Amoral? Dangerous? Or do you just want to get back to calling (and assuming) people are communists for having that opinion - Buddy?
Before spouting off the socialist agenda, get you facts right (or your spin on them). Dangerous - there's nothing like a big helping of exaggeration to mislead.
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So the European Cup was won on his birthday. Bet he wasn't there.
This is a resurrected thread - his birthday is 3rd January.
No, he wasn't in Rotterdam. The story is that he had returned from a holiday in Barbados but due to industrial action at Heathrow he couldn't get over there in time.
Some fucking travel agent.
*standing ovation*
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I couldn't stand him but never realised he was this vile. Still, fitting that this heartless, greed-driven egotist who loved flogging off valuable assets has donated money to the Tories.
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So the European Cup was won on his birthday. Bet he wasn't there.
This is a resurrected thread - his birthday is 3rd January.
No, he wasn't in Rotterdam. The story is that he had returned from a holiday in Barbados but due to industrial action at Heathrow he couldn't get over there in time.
That excuse beats having to do overtime at The Rover.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
It would appear you're not aware of quite a few things - but hey ho! Fingers crossed it's not early signs of dementia as it would be awful for you to lose your home paying for social care as this government have recently proposed in their manifesto (along with cutting winter fuel payments to vulnerable pensioners). Saying that let's hope you or any of your family, relatives or friends don't fall ill at any time in the near future and need to use the NHS. You know the NHS that the party you're so eagerly defending are hell bent on dismantling. Do any of those policies come across to you as pathetic? Amoral? Dangerous? Or do you just want to get back to calling (and assuming) people are communists for having that opinion - Buddy?
Before spouting off the socialist agenda, get you facts right (or your spin on them). Dangerous - there's nothing like a big helping of exaggeration to mislead.
It is not an exaggeration to say that this government are selling off the NHS to private companies. Take this week, you only have to look at why they have been so determined to block the full discloser of the former Health Secretary Andrew Lansley ministerial diaries from 2010 to 2011, a crucial period, just before the Health and Social Care Act 2012 was introduced. On Wednesday 3 judges have ruled he must disclose more information, thanks to a journalist requesting freedom of information, which will show the details of his meetings with private healthcare companies and executives with a vested interest in privatisiation. They have already moved key people from the private sector into the public office like former president of American healthcare firm UnitedHealth who is now CEO of NHS England. Would you like an American health “care” system?
If you vote Conservative you are saying goodbye to the NHS as we know it, that isn’t an exaggeration. My local hospital was the first NHS hospital in the country. In the last 3 years they have closed the A&E and are now downgrading it further by taking away emergency consultants and leaving that to nurses and GPs.
If you think this is far fetched I suppose you can take lots of comfort with their record with the disabled? The rising need and use of foodbanks across the country? (The figures for 3 day emergency food supplies given to people in crisis by Trussell Trust) April 2016 – April 2017 Nationwide 1,182,954 – West Midlands 111,386, North West 174, 489. The rapidly rising number of homeless people in our cities. The Conservatives have failed to deliver on the economy (they’ve borrowed more than any other government ever) and on security (I currently have armed police on the streets where I live/work) - this isn’t exaggeration.
I wasn't looking to hijack the Herbert Ellis thread and turn it into an election/political thread (there is no doubt somewhere else to discuss this subject for those that want to). To summarise I think Ellis is now an even bigger twat than I thought a week ago and vote but don't vote Tory if you want an NHS ;-)
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You win. I've lost the will to live. Now, must go and read that not left for the Coalition Govt. when they took over from Labour.
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You win. I've lost the will to live. Now, must go and read that not left for the Coalition Govt. when they took over from Labour.
It was a joke of the kind that most Chancellors apparently leave for their successor.
Reggie Maudling left a note for Jim Callaghan saying something along the lines "Good luck, sorry I've left such a mess."
But hey just let your prejudices get in the way of reality.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
It would appear you're not aware of quite a few things - but hey ho! Fingers crossed it's not early signs of dementia as it would be awful for you to lose your home paying for social care as this government have recently proposed in their manifesto (along with cutting winter fuel payments to vulnerable pensioners). Saying that let's hope you or any of your family, relatives or friends don't fall ill at any time in the near future and need to use the NHS. You know the NHS that the party you're so eagerly defending are hell bent on dismantling. Do any of those policies come across to you as pathetic? Amoral? Dangerous? Or do you just want to get back to calling (and assuming) people are communists for having that opinion - Buddy?
Before spouting off the socialist agenda, get you facts right (or your spin on them). Dangerous - there's nothing like a big helping of exaggeration to mislead.
Diablo, Thanks for bringing Dementia into the conversation , I hope I get chance to meet you to discuss it as I have two members of my family and one close friend suffering from it. As for losing homes to pay for social care ....how long have you got? You are born with nothing and you die with nothing- My mother who is now 72 lives in a nice house in Four Oaks , worked for all her life , from a working class area ( Yardley Wood ) should she and millions of others in our ageing population need home care is it 'fair' to expect you and everyone to pay for it whilst I inherit a fortune? I believe in social policy but my belief is that you need economic policy to pay for it. Every developed country in the world has this problem not just us. What could be fairer to all than for families that can afford it to pay for it , I have no right to inherit a fortune and actually if someone left me 'just' the £100,000 figure quoted after social care deductions I would not have a problem. And your answer to the funding problem would be ??????
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
Hi brentastonb6, I was responding to your point, "that's just your opinion" as it seems a rather limited argument to base a request for use of a discussion forum on.
I was also responding on behalf of myself (not Diablo) as someone you might presume to be a 'leftie communist', as I felt that was a rather lazy and disrespectful (hence my mentioning politeness) way of labelling someone like *me* who cares about vulnerable people. I'd also criticise new labour for the u-turn in developing PFI, the singlemost health infrastructure disaster of recent time perhaps.
I actually accept some tightening of the belt but feel great discomfort when it's not done honestly. Although saying that, I think it's a fairly common analysis - as has been pointed out- that austerity policy hasn't worked (at least as planned). And that those that are suffering most are those most in need.
It might be hard to see the crises ahead with the NHS from the outside, but this is such a crucial time.
I wish everybody well, and hope we get outcomes that are best.
PS back on topic, I hadn't even got as far as thinking about it being my £ spent on Villa that is going to the party that is threatening our social fabric. Shudder.
Oh and I hope those close to you brentastonb6 suffering from dementia are doing as well as they can and have some good services in their area.
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What is overlooked in the Dementia Tax debate is that only inheritance money makes it possible for children and grandchildren to own their own homes. If I get the dementia I see peeking over the horizon and live to the same age as my mother, my grandchildren will get £20k each towards a home which in the place they were born and raised already averages £500k. The wealth being siphoned off home owners to pay for medical care they have already paid for is in reality being siphoned off the young. My hope is that if that appears to be happening I will be compos mentis enough to top myself.
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What is overlooked in the Dementia Tax debate is that only inheritance money makes it possible for children and grandchildren to own their own homes. If I get the dementia I see peeking over the horizon and live to the same age as my mother, my grandchildren will get £20k each towards a home which in the place they were born and raised already averages £500k. The wealth being siphoned off home owners to pay for medical care they have already paid for is in reality being siphoned off the young. My hope is that if that appears to be happening I will be compos mentis enough to top myself.
The trouble is Brian, governments of all colours have chronically underfunded old age care for decades. For me it comes down to successive governments cashing cheques every year we can't afford to pay so they're naturally going to come after your wealth in areas where they feel you have the ability to pay. It's a wealth tax by any other name.
Unfortunately both the Tories mainly and Labour when in power have continued reducing tax burdens on individuals which has lessened the tax take as a proportion of GDP leading to chronic funding problems for all parts of the "social contract" inc Defence, NHS, Social Care, Education.
It's the old conundrum we want Scandinavian levels of govt services funded by Singaporean levels of taxation. The sums just don't add up.
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I agree 100% AV. What is at the root of the problem is waste. Successive governments have failed to use the huge amounts of tax raised from UK taxpayers wisely and thriftily. Just one example to quote Scandinavian standards, Norway used it's oil revenue to set up a sovereign wealth fund we pissed ours up the wall on aircraft carriers with no aircraft, computer systems that do not work, bombing the living daylights out of Gaddafi, paying millions to BBC executives to arse lick the likes of Jimmy Savile, giving away the Olympic Stadium to Gold and Sullivan, salvaging banks that should have been made to face the consequences of their blind greed and all the rest of the burdens generated by failure and stupidity of those charged with spending our money.
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I haven't looked at the proposals for the selling of houses and the £100K limit too closely, but they wouldn't appear from the outset to hard to get round.
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I haven't looked at the proposals for the selling of houses and the £100K limit too closely, but they wouldn't appear from the outset to hard to get round.
Isn't that part of the unfairness that people are so excorcised about? Rich people will have the funds to employ someone to find the ways around a tax system, whereas people without the means will end up paying. The marginal tax rate on the rich is lower than that on less wealthy people that contribute through PAYE
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When my sister put my mother in a nursing home (she declined to come to us because she said she would be a burden) she was the only one paying for her care because she (a cleaner) and my Dad (a factory labourer) had saved and bought their little bungalow outright. All the rest were worldly enough to divest themselves of their homes. Anyone suggesting that I should have told my Dad what to do never knew my Dad.
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Doug loves doug.
his a fckin blue nose on there board before us: bought , sold , bought shares.
I hope he and our money are very happy.
rename the witton lane after himself, Prick.
But then again I have no opinion on him.
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Doug loves doug.
his a fckin blue nose on there board before us: bought , sold , bought shares.
thats I hope he and our money are very happy.
rename the witton lane after himself, Prick.
But then again I have no opinion on him.
That's the point the only thing Ellis is troubled about is himself. The Witton Lane needs to be renamed the Witton Lane, or perhaps the Ron Saunders Stand or something similar - someone who actually did something positive for the Villa.
The more I look at this thread the more I wonder just how he has hoodwinked a few into thinking he is a decent fella. Make no mistake Ellis was responsible for our downfall after 1982.
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Without going over too much old ground for the nth time, the greatest stroke Doug Ellis ever pulled was to make Villa supporters think he cared about the Villa as much as they do. For Doug Ellis, on behalf of Doug Ellis.
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I agree 100% AV. What is at the root of the problem is waste. Successive governments have failed to use the huge amounts of tax raised from UK taxpayers wisely and thriftily. Just one example to quote Scandinavian standards, Norway used it's oil revenue to set up a sovereign wealth fund we pissed ours up the wall on aircraft carriers with no aircraft, computer systems that do not work, bombing the living daylights out of Gaddafi, paying millions to BBC executives to arse lick the likes of Jimmy Savile, giving away the Olympic Stadium to Gold and Sullivan, salvaging banks that should have been made to face the consequences of their blind greed and all the rest of the burdens generated by failure and stupidity of those charged with spending our money.
That's unfair Brian. The BBC got no oil money. Executives were paid to lick the arse of the likes of Bill Gates using licence fees. And they were as thrifty and wise in spending it as any government. In fact, they could teach HMG a thing or two about cocking up capital projects and IT systems.
As for Doug, you could never accuse him of wasting his money. Has he spent enough for a seat in the Lords yet?
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As for Doug, you could never accuse him of wasting his money. Has he spent enough for a seat in the Lords yet?
You could be onto something here unless knighthoods are more expensive than I imagined. It was assumed the £90k he'd given back in 2010/11 paid for his knighthood. Ellis gave a similar sum, £66k back in 2015 and at the time it was reported he'd given the Tories £200k since selling the Villa. The Lord Doug Ellis Stand?
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The BBC behaved as though they got oil money. The scales fell from my eyes about the Corporation's ability to squander public money when I went to see an event covered by somebody related to me. ITV had a journalist, a cameraman and an estate car. The BBC had thirty five staff and three minibuses. ITV's coverage was far superior. In my humble opinion the BBC is a perfect example of taxpayers' money being pissed up in the air. Just my opinion as a substantial (and willing) payer of UK taxes.
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Probably needs another thread, but what was the event? Believe me, whatever they paid out wouldn't come close to what has been spent on non-broadcast.
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when you think of the likes of Karen Brady being a Baroness (at least I think that's her title) anything is open to our opportunist travel agent.
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I haven't looked at the proposals for the selling of houses and the £100K limit too closely, but they wouldn't appear from the outset to hard to get round.
Agree Risso, This is part of the problem , everyone appears to think more funding is required , unfortunately it seems like everyone is trying their hardest not to contribute. I agree with previous posts that past wealth had been squandered
And whilst some people have contributed their taxes for a lifetime that money was spent as it was received and not invested as per the Norway model.
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
Hi brentastonb6, I was responding to your point, "that's just your opinion" as it seems a rather limited argument to base a request for use of a discussion forum on.
I was also responding on behalf of myself (not Diablo) as someone you might presume to be a 'leftie communist', as I felt that was a rather lazy and disrespectful (hence my mentioning politeness) way of labelling someone like *me* who cares about vulnerable people. I'd also criticise new labour for the u-turn in developing PFI, the singlemost health infrastructure disaster of recent time perhaps.
I actually accept some tightening of the belt but feel great discomfort when it's not done honestly. Although saying that, I think it's a fairly common analysis - as has been pointed out- that austerity policy hasn't worked (at least as planned). And that those that are suffering most are those most in need.
It might be hard to see the crises ahead with the NHS from the outside, but this is such a crucial time.
I wish everybody well, and hope we get outcomes that are best.
PS back on topic, I hadn't even got as far as thinking about it being my £ spent on Villa that is going to the party that is threatening our social fabric. Shudder.
Oh and I hope those close to you brentastonb6 suffering from dementia are doing as well as they can and have some good services in their area.
Thank you 👍
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Roll on the transfer window eh?
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when you think of the likes of Karen Brady being a Baroness (at least I think that's her title) anything is open to our opportunist travel agent.
(http://i3.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article1315656.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Sir%20Doug%20Ellis%20and%20Karren%20Brady.jpg)
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What a pair of tits
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As if there isn't enough reason to dislike Ellis already? Does anyone know the amount he has donated to this pathetic amoral dangerous party?
Buddy that's just your opinion. I think leftie communists are far more dangerous but that's just mine. So shall we leave politics off this site ?
Yep. You correctly observed it's his opinion.
And this is a discussion forum.
I think if you were requesting to rise above politics you might do it in a more polite way.
If it helps you understand: Politics mean I'm recruiting less NHS staff to my team than agreed because my trust makes cuts. Every year. Btw this is in the same mental health that Theresa May allegedly is championing.
Social care had been destroyed in this country. Councils up and down the land have been slashing services for years. I see people suffering as a result, including football fans.
Your request has unfortunately had the opposite effect.
From ?working class roots, Villa opposing nazism, the death of Matthias Sindelar, Franco's Real Madrid, government dictating seating stadia, European working regulations (Bosman), migration, work permits, current links between football & violence/nationalism/fascism/self determination, international relations expressed in international fixtures, great union/socialist managers, subsidised stadia (happy with the West Ham deal?), boycotting under armour as they promote big game hunting etc etc
Just how could we ignore politics in football? It's life.
And whilst it's villa related, as HDE is, it's here. In this part of the site. On this thread.
Oh thank you for enlightening me, without your help I wouldn't have realised a forum was about discussion. I wasn't aware I was being impolite to Diablo, and if I had been he hasn't shown offence but thank you also for defending him
👍
It would appear you're not aware of quite a few things - but hey ho! Fingers crossed it's not early signs of dementia as it would be awful for you to lose your home paying for social care as this government have recently proposed in their manifesto (along with cutting winter fuel payments to vulnerable pensioners). Saying that let's hope you or any of your family, relatives or friends don't fall ill at any time in the near future and need to use the NHS. You know the NHS that the party you're so eagerly defending are hell bent on dismantling. Do any of those policies come across to you as pathetic? Amoral? Dangerous? Or do you just want to get back to calling (and assuming) people are communists for having that opinion - Buddy?
Before spouting off the socialist agenda, get you facts right (or your spin on them). Dangerous - there's nothing like a big helping of exaggeration to mislead.
Diablo, Thanks for bringing Dementia into the conversation , I hope I get chance to meet you to discuss it as I have two members of my family and one close friend suffering from it. As for losing homes to pay for social care ....how long have you got? You are born with nothing and you die with nothing- My mother who is now 72 lives in a nice house in Four Oaks , worked for all her life , from a working class area ( Yardley Wood ) should she and millions of others in our ageing population need home care is it 'fair' to expect you and everyone to pay for it whilst I inherit a fortune? I believe in social policy but my belief is that you need economic policy to pay for it. Every developed country in the world has this problem not just us. What could be fairer to all than for families that can afford it to pay for it , I have no right to inherit a fortune and actually if someone left me 'just' the £100,000 figure quoted after social care deductions I would not have a problem. And your answer to the funding problem would be ??????
Brentastonb6 sorry to hear about your experience with dementia, my Grandad suffered with dementia so I know what a truly horrible, heart- breaking disease it is. Given the opportunity I'd happily speak with you/share my experience about it in person, if it would help. I wish all those affected well in the difficult time ahead.
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when you think of the likes of Karen Brady being a Baroness (at least I think that's her title) anything is open to our opportunist travel agent.
(http://i3.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article1315656.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Sir%20Doug%20Ellis%20and%20Karren%20Brady.jpg)
If ever a picture deserved a caption competition.
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when you think of the likes of Karen Brady being a Baroness (at least I think that's her title) anything is open to our opportunist travel agent.
(http://i3.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article1315656.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Sir%20Doug%20Ellis%20and%20Karren%20Brady.jpg)
If ever a picture deserved a caption competition.
I think vctm won that with the first reply.
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when you think of the likes of Karen Brady being a Baroness (at least I think that's her title) anything is open to our opportunist travel agent.
(http://i3.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article1315656.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Sir%20Doug%20Ellis%20and%20Karren%20Brady.jpg)
If ever a picture deserved a caption competition.
I think vctm won that with the first reply.
Well they both have thier knockers.
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Your married name rhymes with Dildo?
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*tumbleweed*
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when you think of the likes of Karen Brady being a Baroness (at least I think that's her title) anything is open to our opportunist travel agent.
(http://i3.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article1315656.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Sir%20Doug%20Ellis%20and%20Karren%20Brady.jpg)
If ever a picture deserved a caption competition.
I think vctm won that with the first reply.
Well they both have thier knockers.
Struggling with this one to be honest, I have to confess Karen actually looks quite tasty. Sorry, I'm off to say a thousand Hail Marys
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when you think of the likes of Karen Brady being a Baroness (at least I think that's her title) anything is open to our opportunist travel agent.
(http://i3.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article1315656.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Sir%20Doug%20Ellis%20and%20Karren%20Brady.jpg)
If ever a picture deserved a caption competition.
Who'd have thought a surprise prostate examination could be so enjoyable :o
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The emasure of Ellis is for me, that whatever stance we take now regarding the naming of the stand, I'd wager that the majority of us want his name taken off the stand as soon as he pops his clogs.
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His name can be put on whatever landfill site the Trinity stand went into. Probably somewhere in Chelmsley Wood.
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I started following our club in 1989(ish) and have had many more good times than bad. I understand the dismantling of European Champions (albeit before my time) and the reluctance to really push on when we came close to cracking it in the 90's, but I find it hard to hate the man as so many do.
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The emasure of Ellis is for me, that whatever stance we take now regarding the naming of the stand, I'd wager that the majority of us want his name taken off the stand as soon as he pops his clogs.
Funny , most people get things named after them upon death, it will be interesting to see how quickly is deemed appropriate before we remove his name from our stadium or whether we would wait until the next redevelopment of the WItton Lane side of the ground.
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It was the Witton Lane stand long before Herbert arrived and has always continued to be so as far as I'm concerned.
I would have no objection for it to be renamed after someone who was worthy of it.
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The emasure of Ellis is for me, that whatever stance we take now regarding the naming of the stand, I'd wager that the majority of us want his name taken off the stand as soon as he pops his clogs.
Funny , most people get things named after them upon death, it will be interesting to see how quickly is deemed appropriate before we remove his name from our stadium or whether we would wait until the next redevelopment of the WItton Lane side of the ground.
True. I think there will be a growing number of people through whatever channels - directly to the club or through local media - who will raise the issue of re-naming the stand. The club will be in a difficult position though because reputation wise it would not look good to remove the name of someone who has died in the aftermath of that death. It could look callous and uncalled for. I think it should go and want his name off the Witton Lane. As has been said, if it does need to be given a name - and I think the club have no option but throw it out to fans to re-name rather than just take his name off - then Ellis's name has to be put in a poll with other luminaries - McGregor/Ramsay/Rinder/Saunders etc I'm sure many other have their favourites. Joe Bache for me.
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Seconded.
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They could fudge it of course. The Witton Stand could be divided into five or six blocks. The Joe Bache 20% the Harry Hampton 20% the Paul McGrath 20% the Peter McParland 19% the Herbert Ellis 1% (restricted view).
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If we're thinking about renaming a stand because it carries the name of a lunatic then shouldn't we start with the Holte? Change it back to The Great Hall end.
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They could fudge it of course. The Witton Stand could be divided into five or six blocks. The Joe Bache 20% the Harry Hampton 20% the Paul McGrath 20% the Peter McParland 19% the Herbert Ellis 1% (restricted view).
Maybe the Herbert Block could be the away end.
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Yes that would fit nicely with it being the bit homed in on by the Luftwaffe.
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Just swap the names around, rename the North Stand as the Doug Ellis Stand....in time it will be knocked down and a new stand with new name can be built
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Could only be named after McGregor, Ramsay or, if we are going for a more modern name, Saunders.
As we already have a McGregor statue I'd rename WLS after Ramsay and the North Stand after Saunders.
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Me and my mate have always called that stand `The Charlie Aitken Stand` since it was built.
we told Charlie once & he couldn`t stop chuckling
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I'm not Saunders would be happy having his name on a stand built by the Bendalls.
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the Herbert Ellis 1% (restricted view).
and the view should be restricted because of the white porcelain and cubicles.
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If we're thinking about renaming a stand because it carries the name of a lunatic then shouldn't we start with the Holte? Change it back to The Great Hall end.
Nothing much wrong with Sir Thomas Holte. OK there are accusations that he split his cooks head in two with a meat cleaver. Also it's believed that one of his daughters starved to death when he locked her up because he didn't approve of who she wanted to marry. Otherwise a jolly decent chap.
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Saunders, it would be great to honour him and for him to see it.
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Saunders, it would be great to honour him and for him to see it.
Totally agree, but equally by the same token, id like the stands name changed whilst "erbert" still has breath in his lungs.
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If we're thinking about renaming a stand because it carries the name of a lunatic then shouldn't we start with the Holte? Change it back to The Great Hall end.
Nothing much wrong with Sir Thomas Holte. OK there are accusations that he split his cooks head in two with a meat cleaver. Also it's believed that one of his daughters starved to death when he locked her up because he didn't approve of who she wanted to marry. Otherwise a jolly decent chap.
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I'd prefer to think the Holte End was named after the Holte Brewery.
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I see no reason why the whole ground should't be renamed in Dave O'Leary's honour. We could change our nickname to The Sugarbags.
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Or Michael O'Leary and call ourselves The Packers.
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Or Michael O'Leary and call ourselves The Packers.
I'm not moving to Wisconsin and I'm not wearing a slice of cheese on my head.
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I started following our club in 1989(ish) and have had many more good times than bad. I understand the dismantling of European Champions (albeit before my time) and the reluctance to really push on when we came close to cracking it in the 90's, but I find it hard to hate the man as so many do.
I started watching the Villa in 1989 and I absolute despise the prick. One of my best mates is an Arsenal fan and in the early 90s they were in decline while we were going the other way. Herbert could've invested to push us that bit further but instead he chose to line his own pockets with our money. As a result, we're getting turned over by shit teams like Brentford whilst Arsenal fans are protesting because they haven't reached the Champions League for the first time in two decades!!
I've got more time for Randy Lerner than Doug.
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Not sure where to start... Taken from the Mail.
Former Aston Villa owner Sir Doug Ellis on his darkest days at Villa Park
Ellis insists he was a prisoner in his own Four Oaks home and had his prized Rolls Royce vandalised during the height of his unpopularity
In our ‘Remember When’ series we look back through the archives for stories from Aston Villa’s past.
Here Sir Doug Ellis recalls the dark days of his own Villa reign.
Ellis insists he was a prisoner in his own Four Oaks home and had his prized Rolls Royce vandalised during the height of his unpopularity at Villa Park.
He sold the club to Randy Lerner in 2006 and 10 years on the American billionaire wanted out with Tony Xia taking over in the summer of 2016.
During his time of troubles, Ellis recalls strolling out of Villa Park one day and looking in horror at his gleaming Rolls Royce.
A jagged groove had been carved into the side of the vehicle, signalling a turn in the campaign to rid the club of an owner dubbed Deadly Doug.
Ellis remembers the episode and says: “Did it alter for one moment my position?”
“Not at all. A club like Aston Villa was more important than a car.
“I had to have broad shoulders to deal with it.
“I’ve lived in this house for more than 50 years,” he added.
“The press and anti-Ellis brigade would be here, particularly at night.
“My wife Heidi will tell you what we had to put up with – we couldn’t go out. We could not put the lights on.
“As soon as we did, the telephone would go and it would be the abusers.
“It didn’t matter either way. I was convinced I was doing the right thing for Aston Villa.”
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"I", "Me", "Mine"
C**t
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The only damage his Rolls Royce suffered was when he a) drove it into one of the pillars at the North Stand car park entrance and b) reversed into John Gregory's Range Rover the night Dwight Yorke was sold.
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“It didn’t matter either way. I was convinced I was doing the right thing for Doug Ellis.”
Fixed.
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“My wife Heidi will tell you what we had to put up with – we couldn’t go out. We could not put the lights on.
Just think of the savings on your leccy bill !
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A former neighbour of mine had regular business dealings with him. She was horrified when she learnt that I supported Villa. I won't go into details but lets just say she was less than complementary about him.
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I started following our club in 1989(ish) and have had many more good times than bad. I understand the dismantling of European Champions (albeit before my time) and the reluctance to really push on when we came close to cracking it in the 90's, but I find it hard to hate the man as so many do.
I started watching the Villa in 1989 and I absolute despise the prick. One of my best mates is an Arsenal fan and in the early 90s they were in decline while we were going the other way. Herbert could've invested to push us that bit further but instead he chose to line his own pockets with our money. As a result, we're getting turned over by shit teams like Brentford whilst Arsenal fans are protesting because they haven't reached the Champions League for the first time in two decades!!
I've got more time for Randy Lerner than Doug.
This is how I feel. A massive, massive lost opportunity. And before anyone cites Leeds, there's a million miles between sensible but ambitious investment that would have pushed us to the next level and the reaching for the stars madness Risdale employed.
I'll never think fondly of Doug - to me he is a self serving ******.
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I am a law abiding chap. Geese have never had me say Boo to them, but if they have a minute's silence for Ellis I shall give it ten seconds then bawl at the top of my voice "Hello. Deadly is dead. Hello".
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the way he refused to acknowledge the clubs greatest achievement , I would love it, just love it if we now removed the twats name from all things AVFC.
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His performance with the Barton family around the testimonial is still classed as unforgivable in my family.
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His performance with the Barton family around the testimonial is still classed as unforgivable in my family.
What happened?
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Oh dear. Dave and Legion tell it better.
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His performance with the Barton family around the testimonial is still classed as unforgivable in my family.
What happened?
The 7" version. A date was arranged for a memorial game. The Albion agreed to be the opposition; not the most glamorous but fair play to them for doing it, we hadn't played them for a while and they were sure to bring a few hundred to boost the gate. Then the date was changed to a night when they had a supporters club function and naturally that took priority for them. At such short notice the only opposition that could be found was a Terry Venables XI.
I was approached by the chair of the organising committee and asked if I could help in any way, which I did, as would everyone else. I asked the company I worked for at the time if they could help and they agreed to handle the PR. As their media officer put it, "I've never known anyone as awkward to deal with".
Mrs Barton went to Villa Park for a meeting with Brian Little. This was when all the stuff about Leicester suing him was happening and as she arrived Ellis was just leaving reception. A couple of minutes later the phone rings: "Yes Mr Ellis. Of course Mr Ellis." The receptionist then told Mrs Barton that Brian was in a meeting with his solicitors for the rest of the day. Mrs Barton leaves, just as John Gregory arrives on the scene. He sprints up the stairs and lo & behold within seconds Brian Little appears. He invites Mrs Barton up to his office.
On the night before the match a dinner was held at the ICC. The day before, the committee chairman's car was broken into and his laptop stolen, which of course was pure coincidence but caused no end of aggravation. Prior to that, Villa employees had been warned off attending. The team were there as Brian Little had said it was a three line whip for the playing squad.
The Lord Mayor was due to attend, but at the last minute he pulled out for some reason that has never been explained. Every club imaginable had donated prizes for the auction. Bayern Munich gave an autographed matchball together with a signed note from Franz Beckenbauer, other clubs gave signed shirts and similar stuff. At one point Derby and Forest shirts were being auctioned together when a Forest director stood up and said, "Take the Derby shirt out and we'll replace it with two directors box tickets for the game with Villa, meals and drinks thrown in." The bids went up from £50 to £300 immediately.
Well, I say every club donated prizes. Can you guess the one that didn't?
On the morning of the match I was with Gary Stevens (the Spurs one) as he tried to get a team together. Barry Fry, to his eternal credit, offered any three players (we went for Tait, Dominguez and Donowa) and said with more notice he would have sent the whole Blues team over.
On the evening of the match the Bartons arrived with a commemorative plaque they had been told could be installed in the North Stand reception. It wasn't. We went round the Trinity Road boxes getting donations from the box holders, who had got in free. We lasted about two minutes before Abdul Rashid stopped us. Lovely old Jack Watts looked at me and said, "What's he doing here?" Mrs Barton told him I was her guest. Nobody was allowed into the boardroom except Doug and his entourage.
Before the main match the '82 team played a Midlands veterans XI. They had to change in Stumps and walk across the car park then through the back of the North Stand.
After the game the donations that hadn't arrived in time for the dinner were auctioned by Peter Withe, who as you can imagine raised more money than anyone else would have. One club's contribution is still lost in the post. John Sillett walked up to Mrs Barton, told her he hadn't been able to buy anything and sneaked an indeterminate roll of notes into her pocket. Ron Saunders, manager of the '82 team, asked if he could get a car anywhere and was told he could call a cab from the North Stand reception.
A few days later the organising committee was sent a bill for the food eaten by Doug's guests. But he's Villa through and through.
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I don't think I want to hear the 12" remix Dave. Sounds like painful times.
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I went that night and the club did feck all to promote it, pretty sure only about 2500 turned up to remember the man that gave us our greatest moment because most didn't have a clue it was on. Comes to something when Barry Fry showed more class and respect for Tony Barton than Ellis did.
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On the plus side I got my programme signed by Super Ron that night, and I have to say that Jose Dominguez looked a really good player, annoyingly.
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Dave
Thanks for the explanation.
Words fail me.
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First time I've heard (read) this. fucking wanker. We should try and change it from the name it has now and get something in the name of Tony Barton whilst the old shitbag is still alive. I remember disagreeing with you a while back Dave regarding the role Barton played at the time in terms of how he should be remembered by Villa fans in perpetuity. To be so disrespectful to him is making me angry just to think about it. Absolute wanker. Sod bless Old Doug. Fuck him and fuck his name off our stand.
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First time I've heard this as well. I've always been a bit indifferent to Ellis but after reading Dave's post I totally understand why people dislike him (and I now join them).
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When it comes to stories about Ellis nothing surprises me.
I posted on here a fair few years ago that my late father attended a shareholders meeting in the company of George Edwards (Who my mother used to work for in Hall Green) , Stan Lynn and Harry Parkes. Those guys disliked Ellis immensely, primarily because the way in which they were treated by Ellis. They shared stories with my father about Ellis that shaped his own opinion of him - later face to face encounters and responses to letters sent to to Ellis just reinforced my fathers dislike of this megalomaniac.
My own experiences of meeting with him have left me: cringing at his overblown ego, embarrassed at his tone towards Villa stalwarts (players, former managers and admin staff) and thoroughly pissed off at his lies about numerous claims of generosity towards the club whilst he was taking money out.
His recent comments about his beloved wife, Heidi (?) made me smile - I know through contacts in the hotel trade that this self penned "family man" makes Donald Trump look like a virgin.
I shall never forget the night I attended a shareholders meeting when Sir GT was manager - Graham was speaking to the shareholders with his back to Ellis and made a comment like " You should never turn your back on the chairman in case he decides to stab you in the back" - cant remember the exact words but that was the gist of it.
Later that evening Graham spoke at length to my mother about the Villa etc - when she approached Ellis he just ignored her.
He may be a charitable man in private but I cant help but think that every move he makes is solely for the benefit of HDE and no one else.
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Sacking Tony Barton a few days before his son's wedding leaves a sour taste in the mouth too. The reception was booked for Villa Park, by the way.
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I was a kid when Ellis rocked up so a lot of this went over my head at the time but reading this thread has really pissed me off about the old scrote.
Thanks for everyone's contributions. It's been a real eye opener for me
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I have met him on a couple of occasions , even engaging in a little small talk , it's amazing how quick the conversation turns out to be about him.
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Sacking Tony Barton a few days before his son's wedding leaves a sour taste in the mouth too. The reception was booked for Villa Park, by the way.
Shit! What did they do? Did they still have the reception at Villa Park?
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And thereby hangs another tale. The week after the season ended, there was a meeting to discuss the manager. Afterwards there were the usual "optimistic for the future" noises and his job was safe. He was sacked a month later.
For an encore, Doug spoke to Roy Maclaren the day before, asked him what he was doing and was told he was just off on holiday to Australia the next day. He got there to find he'd been sacked.
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A few years back, when times were brighter there was an awful lot of revisionism regarding Ellis, in particular when he sat on the Holte for a game.
I never bought in to any of it, and it sounds like many others didn't either.
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It's also worth remembering that Tony Barton was sacked by Ellis for being a 'failure'. In his 2 full seasons we finished 6th and 10th, reached a EC QF, an FAC QF, a LC SF, won the ESC and obviously in his first part season the EC. And all that despite Ellis dismantling the 80-82 side, having 2 of the best players in the country crocked, although I have little doubt Ellis would have sold them if they'd been fit as he was getting rid of pretty much anything to do with 80-82 that he could. Pretty sure that within about 3 years of Ellis returning only 3 of the 80-82 side were left, plus Shaw whose career was all but over.
Still, at least we had a lot of success under the manager of Shrewsbury.
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Not sure where to start... Taken from the Mail.
Former Aston Villa owner Sir Doug Ellis on his darkest days at Villa Park
Ellis insists he was a prisoner in his own Four Oaks home and had his prized Rolls Royce vandalised during the height of his unpopularity
In our ‘Remember When’ series we look back through the archives for stories from Aston Villa’s past.
Here Sir Doug Ellis recalls the dark days of his own Villa reign.
Ellis insists he was a prisoner in his own Four Oaks home and had his prized Rolls Royce vandalised during the height of his unpopularity at Villa Park.
He sold the club to Randy Lerner in 2006 and 10 years on the American billionaire wanted out with Tony Xia taking over in the summer of 2016.
During his time of troubles, Ellis recalls strolling out of Villa Park one day and looking in horror at his gleaming Rolls Royce.
A jagged groove had been carved into the side of the vehicle, signalling a turn in the campaign to rid the club of an owner dubbed Deadly Doug.
Ellis remembers the episode and says: “Did it alter for one moment my position?”
“Not at all. A club like Aston Villa was more important than a car.
“I had to have broad shoulders to deal with it.
“I’ve lived in this house for more than 50 years,” he added.
“The press and anti-Ellis brigade would be here, particularly at night.
“My wife Heidi will tell you what we had to put up with – we couldn’t go out. We could not put the lights on.
“As soon as we did, the telephone would go and it would be the abusers.
“It didn’t matter either way. I was convinced I was doing the right thing for Aston Villa.”
I am impressed that people found out where he lived and vandalised his car and tracked down his address. Or in other words I'm not sure I actually believe it. But then he did invent the bicycle kick and despite anything the bible says he also created the world and mankind.
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It's also worth remembering that Tony Barton was sacked by Ellis for being a 'failure'. In his 2 full seasons we finished 6th and 10th, reached a EC QF, an FAC QF, a LC SF, won the ESC and obviously in his first part season the EC. And all that despite Ellis dismantling the 80-82 side, having 2 of the best players in the country crocked, although I have little doubt Ellis would have sold them if they'd been fit as he was getting rid of pretty much anything to do with 80-82 that he could. Pretty sure that within about 3 years of Ellis returning only 3 of the 80-82 side were left, plus Shaw whose career was all but over.
Still, at least we had a lot of success under the manager of Shrewsbury.
Don't get me started on 'The manager of Shrewsbury' unless you want to hear a lot of swear words. Not being wise after the event but from day one, even as a teenager I thought it was a barmy decision. Firstly to sack Tony Barton and then to appoint that bloke.
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The last few pages have been a real eye-opener...I didn't know any of this (thanks Dave). His name needs to come off that stand now while he's still alive to see it, and replaced with Ron Saunders', again while he's still alive to see it. Disgraceful.
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I was radicalised towards Doug by the pages of this wonderful fanzine as a wide eyed 13 year old, and I'm glad I was.
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The last few pages have been a real eye-opener...I didn't know any of this (thanks Dave). His name needs to come off that stand now while he's still alive to see it, and replaced with Ron Saunders', again while he's still alive to see it. Disgraceful.
This would be a dream come true.
Where do I sign up?
When do we march?
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The last few pages have been a real eye-opener...I didn't know any of this (thanks Dave). His name needs to come off that stand now while he's still alive to see it, and replaced with Ron Saunders', again while he's still alive to see it. Disgraceful.
This would be a dream come true.
Where do I sign up?
When do we march?
Whilst I agree with nearly all the sentiment on this thread re our egotistical Herbert we'd be stooping lower than
His level to act in this way. If Dr Tony is true to his word we will see ground redevelopment which will be a perfect time to reconsider stand names and allow us to act in a way we'd like to think is synonymous with our
Aston Villa.
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To take his name of the stand we be fixing a wrong. Off all the great people & legends associated with Aston Villa and have his name on one of the 4 stands is ridiculous.
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The last few pages have been a real eye-opener...I didn't know any of this (thanks Dave). His name needs to come off that stand now while he's still alive to see it, and replaced with Ron Saunders', again while he's still alive to see it. Disgraceful.
100%
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It's a real moral dilemma. It would be churlish and petty to change it while he's alive and seem disrespectful to do it after he's dead. There's also the problem that many of our supporters still believe him to be good old Deadly, who did a grand job and who loves the Villa.
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many of our supporters still believe him to be good old Deadly, who did a grand job and who loves the Villa.
*tugs forelock
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Sacking Tony Barton a few days before his son's wedding leaves a sour taste in the mouth too. The reception was booked for Villa Park, by the way.
Shit! What did they do? Did they still have the reception at Villa Park?
I had to look it up, found an interview with Mrs Barton in the Mail:
So dignified was Barton that he encouraged Gary, the second of his three sons, to push ahead with plans to hold his wedding reception at Villa Park just five days after he had been ousted.
Rose said: “A lot of the big hotels in Birmingham contacted us to say they would happily host the reception if Tony didn’t want it to be at Villa Park.
“But he was keen not to leave under a cloud and wanted it to be at the ground.
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Doug was, apparently, quite put out that he wasn't invited.
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Sacking Tony Barton a few days before his son's wedding leaves a sour taste in the mouth too. The reception was booked for Villa Park, by the way.
Shit! What did they do? Did they still have the reception at Villa Park?
I had to look it up, found an interview with Mrs Barton in the Mail:
So dignified was Barton that he encouraged Gary, the second of his three sons, to push ahead with plans to hold his wedding reception at Villa Park just five days after he had been ousted.
Rose said: “A lot of the big hotels in Birmingham contacted us to say they would happily host the reception if Tony didn’t want it to be at Villa Park.
“But he was keen not to leave under a cloud and wanted it to be at the ground.
Wow! Speaks volumes about both. One of the (supposed) best days of your (son's + families) life. FFS! Horrible, horrible man. Regardless of any moral dilemma his name needs to come off the stand. Hopefully when if not regardless of Tony redeveloping.
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For those of you with subscriptions to the Athletic, there's a good article about HDE today - https://theathletic.com/2580890/2021/05/16/deadly-doug-ellis-the-aston-villa-years-hiring-firing-and-haggling-over-broccoli?source=user-shared-article
Seems like lots of research gone in to what he was really like.
Spoiler - turns out he really was as tight and as self-centred as we all thought!!
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I'm not going to pay to read the article.
He probably gets a percentage of the subscription.
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For those of you with subscriptions to the Athletic, there's a good article about HDE today - https://theathletic.com/2580890/2021/05/16/deadly-doug-ellis-the-aston-villa-years-hiring-firing-and-haggling-over-broccoli?source=user-shared-article
Seems like lots of research gone in to what he was really like.
Spoiler - turns out he really was as tight and as self-centred as we all thought!!
Thanks for the headsup. Some of that was painful to read and discover. Remembering that period of the early 90s when we were close, still leaves me with a feeling of what could have been.
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For me the dreaded date of May 20th 2000 changed everything. Nearly 21 years on and we still haven't got back up to the general standing we had going into that game.
With Ellis of course damage was done when he came back right after the euro win and messed everything up but at least he rectified things with appointing Graham Taylor and generally moving on managers when it was right and appointing good fits to follow.
Well not so much Dr Jo but as mentioned someone of his ilk would've worked more a decade later. Realised that after the one season and got in Big Ron who got us thinking big again. Then the more thoughtful approach of Brian Little paid off very well for first two and a bit years. Even Gregory had us dreaming for a bit. If he hadn't been given a new long term deal about two weeks before the cup final he wouldn't have lasted very long the next season. Instead he had luxury of taking pot shots at Doug in the press, remember the timewarp interview?!
Anyway if we'd won the cup in 2000 it would've been a decade of numerous top 6 finishes including two 2nd finishes, two league cups, the odd good european run and holy grail of FA cup.
Instead we lost and football was changing. Chelsea were one of the clubs that wised up to what was happening with Bosman and looking at their team with likes of Desailly, Deschamps and Zola they were ahead while our side was more workmanlike and we were overpaying for British players.
I would defend Ellis approach in 90s but from 2000 onwards we ceased to become a top 6 club in thinking and many over took us and we didn't start finishing ahead of many of those teams again until the Lerner era started.
Key players all wanted to leave for likes of Middlesborough and we just plodded along in 8th just happy to be top half. Thought we might have more of a go as O'Leary was at the time a genuinely ambitious move (arguably the most exciting managerial appointment since Big Ron considering SBL wasn't that proven in top flight when he came from Leicester) but he got a minimal budget and started to get found out within 18 months.
Lerner period showed running a football club isn't easy and he had basically hardly anyone questioning his decisions for first three seasons. NSWE having a similar honeymoon period but I suspect the next two years will be trickier in terms of key decisions.
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The damage was done in the mid-1990's. Some clubs realised that the Premier League was money heaven and went for it big-style. HDE continued to run the club cautiously, without recognising that he needed to push the boat out and start acting like one of the elite.
Hindsight tells me that he should have either found a co-investor or sold out (keeping an earn-out on future success) some time around 1996-7 (the time when other clubs started to create clear space between themselves and the rest).
To be fair, the fans saw that the opportunity was being spurned; hence the Ellis-Out campaigns organised by the various groups around 2001-2.
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Yes, that FA cup final was a bit of a turning point. We froze on the day and the hangover of that was bad with so many players wanting out and all the doom and gloom.
I think that's why so many of us sort of erased that day from memory. We had such high hopes, genuinely nothing between us and Chelsea, and we just didn't perform on the day.
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To be fair to Doug he pulled out some inspired managerial signings. Getting SGT was a real coup, Dr Jo was a brave choice and again to be fair to Doug he quickly got rid when it failed. Getting BFR who won a trophy was a great decision and Little also won a trophy. Gregory had us briefly at the top of the table and in a cup final and dreaming for a short while. Even O'Leary had a good first season after the SGT MKII experiment went wrong.
Of course we were also League runners up twice in the early nineties.
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I don't want to plough the same furrow again, but Sir Graham appointed us, DrJo was about seventeenth choice, BFR was a no-brainer and Brian was always going to be our next manager at that time. Gregory was the real wasted opportunity and O'Leary was the only time there wasn't one outstanding candidate and we got the right one.
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I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.
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Graham Turner? Billy McNeill? Desperate appointments.
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Ellis was of the time when you could own a top division football club as a reasonably wealthy provincial businessman. He stayed on too long, and completely missed the boat in terms of the marketing opportunity the Premier League era ushered in. Now of course, if you're not owned by one of the world's richest men, you haven't got a chance.
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Yes, that FA cup final was a bit of a turning point. We froze on the day and the hangover of that was bad with so many players wanting out and all the doom and gloom.
I think that's why so many of us sort of erased that day from memory. We had such high hopes, genuinely nothing between us and Chelsea, and we just didn't perform on the day.
Bulldozing the Trinity Road stand that summer didn't help the general mood of the camp either. Moreso for fans than players, admittedly.
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I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.
We wanted BFR but he'd just been relegated with Wednesday and felt obliged to get them back up.
According to his book, anyroad.
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I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.
We wanted BFR but he'd just been relegated with Wednesday and felt obliged to get them back up.
According to his book, anyroad.
And we were turned down by the managers of Bristol City and Rovers.
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I never really understood why we weren't an attractive proposition after SGT left in 1990 having just from finished runners up and with one of the stars of that summer's world cup scoring our goals. Or maybe the second of those looking to leave was the one of the reasons.
We wanted BFR but he'd just been relegated with Wednesday and felt obliged to get them back up.
According to his book, anyroad.
And we were turned down by the managers of Bristol City and Rovers.
And I would imagine much of the reluctance in taking the job would've been down to the individual offering it.
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Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis, according to Google. They must have been insane to turn Villa down.
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Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis, according to Google. They must have been insane to turn Villa down.
See above, plus I suppose there was the knowledge that the previous manager had done such an incredible job that they were never going to emulate him.
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Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis, according to Google. They must have been insane to turn Villa down.
Gerry Francis and his mullet. Remember singing "Gerry Francis, Gerry Francis, what a difference you have made" at Spurs in his first game, a mental last minute 4-3 win down there after giving up a 3 goal lead, was our next game after sacking Ron.
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I don't want to plough the same furrow again, but Sir Graham appointed us, DrJo was about seventeenth choice, BFR was a no-brainer and Brian was always going to be our next manager at that time. Gregory was the real wasted opportunity and O'Leary was the only time there wasn't one outstanding candidate and we got the right one.
With Gregory I remember the Evening Mail running a poll a day before he was appointed and Ruud Gullit got about 80% of votes. Could see logic at the time as he had just been sacked by Chelsea despite winning the FA cup and a big name like him would've attracted some good players but he then went to Newcastle and lasted a year and dropped Shearer in his final game.
Terry Venables was also mentioned but he was past it at the time and nearly running Portsmouth and Palace out of business....
Seemed a bit random to appoint the Wycombe manager but Gregory was well known to the players and had the respect of them and first two years were largely fine although he did have that poor run in 99/00 when he was arguably a game off the sack (so bit like DS last season).
We should've let him go after May 2000 and had a complete rebuild at that point. Mad to think he stayed nearly another two years.
It's not easy appointing managers sometimes, most of Lerner's picks said it all and we were probably in better positions than some of Ellis picks e.g. we appointed O'leary after finishing 16th in the league and with minimal budget, Lerner appointed TSM after we finished 9th and had just spent 18m on Bent.
Lambert looked a logical appointment at the time but need I say more on that....I could even see logic for Sherwood but it was the ultimate short term bounce style manager and really by that point Lerner had pretty much given up anyway.
Really interested who NSWE would appoint as next manager although hopefully we won't have that decision for a few more years. Get the feeling they'd go all out for a big name like Everton have done given we were strongly linked to Henry for a week after Steve Bruce was sacked.
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Joe Jordan had only been a manager for two years at that point so find it hard to believe he was actually approached. After he went to Stoke for a season and flopped and then went back to Bristol City but was again mediocre. Since then mainly turned up to coach at clubs Redknapp has managed.
Around 1990 period I assume someone like Howard Kendall was looked at given he was actually a really good manager at that time. Went to Bilbao and didn't work out and he quickly came back to manage Man. City. Problem would've been him always wanting to manage Everton every couple of years.
I also wonder why we didn't just say to FA at the time, o.k you want SGT, let's have Bobby Robson in return although I guess he'd already agreed to go to PSV or Porto or wherever he went after Italia 90 but he would've been a very logical appointment.
No real harm done when Big Ron eventually decided to come.
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Joe Jordan had only been a manager for two years at that point so find it hard to believe he was actually approached.
He gave an interview a few years after saying he regretted not taking the job at the time.
A few months after that approach he joined, eh, Hearts. And didn't do fantastically well there.
There wouldn't be too many managers who turn down a top flight job having spent the previous season in the old Third Division. Particularly when the offer comes from the club who had just finished runners up and are on of only two English clubs back in Europe that season.
He never gave his reasons, but - as Lee says - as it was Ellis doing the asking and we spent puck all under Jo Venglos that summer - that might have contributed to his reticence.
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Sums us up a bit though dosen't it? We do really well and overachieve and instead of continuing to act big in thinking the mindset is just we got a bit lucky so need to appoint average manager who can guide us back to safety of lower mid table. Or how about a nice relegation battle.
Not just our thinking under Ellis at times but more disappointed in 2010. Yes the timing wasn't great but we'd just finished 6th on three occasions.
There's no way Spurs this summer for instance will appoint someone who hasn't managed in club football for over 3 years as we did with Houllier then.
Ironically the Houllier equivilant now is probably Harry Redknapp who last managed at SHA in September 2017.
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Spot on. Any time I have seen us at a crossroads, after a decent period, where a good appointment could take us on, we have gone backwards. Hoping we may have finally broken the cycle under these owners.
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Graham Turner? Billy McNeill? Desperate appointments.
I was certainly no fan of Graham Turners but looking back his appointment back then would have been similar to a big Premier League club giving Eddie Howe a job once he had taken Bournemouth from League Two to the Championship. Billy McNeil was a strange one as his Manchester City side were struggling against relegation the same as we were.
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I definitely recall Joe Jordan's name being mentioned back in 1990 when SGT left for England. I also seem to recall that before SGT was surprisingly appointed in 1987 most of the rumours were suggesting Dave Bassett was the front runner for the Villa job.
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Spot on. Any time I have seen us at a crossroads, after a decent period, where a good appointment could take us on, we have gone backwards. Hoping we may have finally broken the cycle under these owners.
Agree with that. It's annoying how some clubs get the desired continuity but we lapse backwards.
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We never strengthened from a position of strength. Hopefully that will change now. From first team transfer policy to all the youngsters we are bringing in, it seems like the owners are unwilling to settle for mediocrity.
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Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis, according to Google. They must have been insane to turn Villa down.
Gerry Francis and his mullet. Remember singing "Gerry Francis, Gerry Francis, what a difference you have made" at Spurs in his first game, a mental last minute 4-3 win down there after giving up a 3 goal lead, was our next game after sacking Ron.
Wasn't it Francis who said something like "I'm glad we only have to play Villa twice a season" as we handed them regular pastings.
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We never strengthened from a position of strength. Hopefully that will change now. From first team transfer policy to all the youngsters we are bringing in, it seems like the owners are unwilling to settle for mediocrity.
The youngsters policy makes me think we have perhaps learned from Chelsea (vomit). They hoover up talent and then make a fortune from loan fees, sales or end up with the best young players to pick from. Often it's a combination of all three.
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We never strengthened from a position of strength. Hopefully that will change now. From first team transfer policy to all the youngsters we are bringing in, it seems like the owners are unwilling to settle for mediocrity.
The youngsters policy makes me think we have perhaps learned from Chelsea (vomit). They hoover up talent and then make a fortune from loan fees, sales or end up with the best young players to pick from. Often it's a combination of all three.
The success breeds success as well, win the youth Cup and suddenly the talk is of Villa's exiting crop of youngsters, which brings teams ending up paying you fortunes for players that haven't even played for you like Brewster and Solanke.
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Daniel Levy - megalomaniac in charge of Spuds. Tight as a duck's arse when it come to signing players and negotiating contracts. Knows more about football than the people he employs.
Remind you of anybody?
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Daniel Levy - megalomaniac in charge of Spuds.
Tight as a duck's arse when it come to signing players and negotiating contracts.
Knows more about football than the people he employs.
Remind you of anybody?
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Daniel Levy - megalomaniac in charge of Spuds.
Tight as a duck's arse when it come to signing players and negotiating contracts.
Knows more about football than the people he employs.
Remind you of anybody?
Levy is a glorified CEO at least Ellis owned the club
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Daniel Levy - megalomaniac in charge of Spuds.
Tight as a duck's arse when it come to signing players and negotiating contracts.
Knows more about football than the people he employs.
Remind you of anybody?
Levy is a glorified CEO at least Ellis owned the club
Ellis owned a third of the club.
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Who owned the rest?
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The other shareholders.
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God bless him, he must be looking down now wondering how much he'd have got for Grealish.
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God bless him, he must be looking down now wondering how much he'd have got for Grealish.
He’d have punted him to Pescara or Empoli right after the Euro’s for £6m.
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Ha!