?% Villa (is that a thing, that % business?) Homophobia in Football

[Sexual Ealing]

If what is being reported is true, then it's quite possible that someone in the home section possibly knew her which could have prompted the unnecessary and disgusting outburst. It only needs one moron to start something that other morons find funny and you then have a recipe for trouble.

That is a massive assumption. 

Nothing was assumed whatsoever there Tom, what was done is that someone used there imagination.

Since I'm stepping up to my soapbox I'll flag up Shelley said "The great instrument of moral good is the imagination". Yes Tom I'm sure you don't come to Football to think about right and wrong but you've waded in, so greetings.

I experience a real split between

1) relief that consensus is gradually shifting, towards actually being respectful to other beings and appreciating something that is not a big deal and is just banter to one, is deeply hurtful to another, or worse...

...and 2) surprise/disappointment at the defensiveness. Sure we don't know details etc, but isn't good to be *open* to the possibility that we aren't perfect and some of our fans may have been out of order? I'm glad and sad at this report, glad the story is opened up, of course sad it's our club. Are we so insecure or immature we can't tolerate or be open to criticism?

Very happy to read about ideas of Rainbow flags etc. I was v keen to have a pro-Tommy Hitz banner the match on TV immediately after he came out. Would love to see him come launch one.

And yes. I know. It's football what do you expect?

Well actually I expect change. I don't see the widespread racism I saw as a kid. I still see and hear the odd bit. It has changed. Needs to more.

I hear less homophobia but there is still plenty.

I'm getting on a bit, but hope to have a kid, and bring him or her to the Villa. I hope I don't have to do what my dad did on occasions and cover my ears or simply pretend it didn't happen.

I don't care if anyone replies and says I'm being PC etc. I sometimes go to football matches in a land where homophobia results in people getting outed in newspapers, being put in prison and being killed from time to time.

Of course it's not that extreme, but, I can imagine how I'd feel if I was gay and having to keep quiet listening to the crap that still gets heard, it's bad enough hearing it when it's not aimed at me. The times they are (thankfully) a-changing. This means things start to get looked at. They weren't before. Deal with it.

Rant over.

*APPLAUSE*

[atomicjam]

The Boro fans also chanted back something on the subject- it was hard to hear as we had a handful of idiots half a dozen rows from us screaming abuse at the away end and arguing with stewards for most of the game.

[Louzie0]

The Boro fans need to have somebody like purpletrousers on their own fan website, by the sound of it.

UTV

[Ian.]

If what is being reported is true, then it's quite possible that someone in the home section possibly knew her which could have prompted the unnecessary and disgusting outburst. It only needs one moron to start something that other morons find funny and you then have a recipe for trouble.

That is a massive assumption. 

Nothing was assumed whatsoever there Tom, what was done is that someone used there imagination.

Since I'm stepping up to my soapbox I'll flag up Shelley said "The great instrument of moral good is the imagination". Yes Tom I'm sure you don't come to Football to think about right and wrong but you've waded in, so greetings.

I experience a real split between

1) relief that consensus is gradually shifting, towards actually being respectful to other beings and appreciating something that is not a big deal and is just banter to one, is deeply hurtful to another, or worse...

...and 2) surprise/disappointment at the defensiveness. Sure we don't know details etc, but isn't good to be *open* to the possibility that we aren't perfect and some of our fans may have been out of order? I'm glad and sad at this report, glad the story is opened up, of course sad it's our club. Are we so insecure or immature we can't tolerate or be open to criticism?

Very happy to read about ideas of Rainbow flags etc. I was v keen to have a pro-Tommy Hitz banner the match on TV immediately after he came out. Would love to see him come launch one.

And yes. I know. It's football what do you expect?

Well actually I expect change. I don't see the widespread racism I saw as a kid. I still see and hear the odd bit. It has changed. Needs to more.

I hear less homophobia but there is still plenty.

I'm getting on a bit, but hope to have a kid, and bring him or her to the Villa. I hope I don't have to do what my dad did on occasions and cover my ears or simply pretend it didn't happen.

I don't care if anyone replies and says I'm being PC etc. I sometimes go to football matches in a land where homophobia results in people getting outed in newspapers, being put in prison and being killed from time to time.

Of course it's not that extreme, but, I can imagine how I'd feel if I was gay and having to keep quiet listening to the crap that still gets heard, it's bad enough hearing it when it's not aimed at me. The times they are (thankfully) a-changing. This means things start to get looked at. They weren't before. Deal with it.

Rant over.

*APPLAUSE*

Well said.

[Ian.]

Not saying it's right but Brighton fans have chants aimed at them every week and nothing is said or done. Now two women have complained about a few chants and it's in the press. It may have all been light hearted for all we know. It's a football match and banter occurs, people get called fat bastard or ginger bastard etc all the time.

As for the Lukaku chant, there's nothing wrong with it and isn't racist in the slightest. Just people trying to make something of nothing yet again and PC gone mad in this country.

It's quite often not banter though is it?

I wonder what you would feel like, or if you have a son or daughter and they are alone surrounded by a group of football chavs having are having a personal attack?

[MoetVillan]

How is the Lukaku one not racist?

[PaulWinch again]

I would say that the phrase 'it's PC gone mad' generally comes from someone who doesn't want society to move forward beyond prejudice.

[Ads]

People struggle with the Lukaku one as an allegation of a big penis isn't socially an issue. 2000 years ago a big knob was a sign of barbarism and you will find mosaics adorning many Roman households which would contain a German barbarian sporting a huge dong to ward of spirits. These days, male ego being what it is things are different.

The issue lies in that if you say Lukaku has a big penis (and he probably does being 6 foot 3 or whatever he is) and you base that assumption on his race, rather than his height, you're using race to generalise a physical characteristic and propagate a myth at the same time. So you're racist. You're also more likely to buy into other racist myths.

The player says he doesn't like it and that should be enough. It appears to be driven by the club, so maybe he's being a company man, either way it doesn't matter.

They should stop murdering a classic Stone Roses, even if their attempt isn't to offend but to celebrate in a borish male way. They should also stop singing about pushing from the back too, which is grossly offensive.

It wouldn't bother me if people (rightly ahem) assumed I have a big dong. But it might start to grate if they (very wrongly) assumed I have rythmn or suck my teeth or like watermelon or any of the other racial stereotypes that get attributed to black people was the reason.

[LeeB]

If what is being reported is true, then it's quite possible that someone in the home section possibly knew her which could have prompted the unnecessary and disgusting outburst. It only needs one moron to start something that other morons find funny and you then have a recipe for trouble.

That is a massive assumption. 

Nothing was assumed whatsoever there Tom, what was done is that someone used there imagination.

Since I'm stepping up to my soapbox I'll flag up Shelley said "The great instrument of moral good is the imagination". Yes Tom I'm sure you don't come to Football to think about right and wrong but you've waded in, so greetings.

I experience a real split between

1) relief that consensus is gradually shifting, towards actually being respectful to other beings and appreciating something that is not a big deal and is just banter to one, is deeply hurtful to another, or worse...

...and 2) surprise/disappointment at the defensiveness. Sure we don't know details etc, but isn't good to be *open* to the possibility that we aren't perfect and some of our fans may have been out of order? I'm glad and sad at this report, glad the story is opened up, of course sad it's our club. Are we so insecure or immature we can't tolerate or be open to criticism?

Very happy to read about ideas of Rainbow flags etc. I was v keen to have a pro-Tommy Hitz banner the match on TV immediately after he came out. Would love to see him come launch one.

And yes. I know. It's football what do you expect?

Well actually I expect change. I don't see the widespread racism I saw as a kid. I still see and hear the odd bit. It has changed. Needs to more.

I hear less homophobia but there is still plenty.

I'm getting on a bit, but hope to have a kid, and bring him or her to the Villa. I hope I don't have to do what my dad did on occasions and cover my ears or simply pretend it didn't happen.

I don't care if anyone replies and says I'm being PC etc. I sometimes go to football matches in a land where homophobia results in people getting outed in newspapers, being put in prison and being killed from time to time.

Of course it's not that extreme, but, I can imagine how I'd feel if I was gay and having to keep quiet listening to the crap that still gets heard, it's bad enough hearing it when it's not aimed at me. The times they are (thankfully) a-changing. This means things start to get looked at. They weren't before. Deal with it.

Rant over.

It's not even a rant, you're just being a normal, decent human being.

[LeeB]

People struggle with the Lukaku one as an allegation of a big penis isn't socially an issue. 2000 years ago a big knob was a sign of barbarism and you will find mosaics adorning many Roman households which would contain a German barbarian sporting a huge dong to ward of spirits. These days, male ego being what it is things are different.

The issue lies in that if you say Lukaku has a big penis (and he probably does being 6 foot 3 or whatever he is) and you base that assumption on his race, rather than his height, you're using race to generalise a physical characteristic and propagate a myth at the same time. So you're racist. You're also more likely to buy into other racist myths.

The player says he doesn't like it and that should be enough. It appears to be driven by the club, so maybe he's being a company man, either way it doesn't matter.

They should stop murdering a classic Stone Roses, even if their attempt isn't to offend but to celebrate in a borish male way. They should also stop singing about pushing from the back too, which is grossly offensive.

It wouldn't bother me if people (rightly ahem) assumed I have a big dong. But it might start to grate if they (very wrongly) assumed I have rythmn or suck my teeth or like watermelon or any of the other racial stereotypes that get attributed to black people was the reason.

Are we OK to assume you're a shite football manager?

[Ads]

My record speaks for itself.

[Damo70]

People who sing it probably think the Lukaku one is good fun or even a compliment. Missing the racial stereotype point.

[Nev]

You can't say anything these days.

Well you can if you want too, it depends what sort of person you are.

I'm sure if this lady in question was being singled out and bullied by a crowd of football fans because of her shape, size, gender, colour, sexuality or anything else personal it was bang out of order.

It's horrible and cruel.

Er....I wasn't being serious, I was taking the piss out of the deadheads.

[tomd2103]

People who sing it probably think the Lukaku one is good fun or even a compliment. Missing the racial stereotype point.

Think you might have got it there, as I'm guessing some people would struggle to see how what they would perceive as a 'positive' could be construed as negative in any way.

Quite why a grown adult, particularly a grown man, would want to sing about someone else's todge at a football match is another question. 

[dave shelley]

If what is being reported is true, then it's quite possible that someone in the home section possibly knew her which could have prompted the unnecessary and disgusting outburst. It only needs one moron to start something that other morons find funny and you then have a recipe for trouble.

That is a massive assumption. 

Nothing was assumed whatsoever there Tom, what was done is that someone used there imagination.

Since I'm stepping up to my soapbox I'll flag up Shelley said "The great instrument of moral good is the imagination". Yes Tom I'm sure you don't come to Football to think about right and wrong but you've waded in, so greetings.

I experience a real split between

1) relief that consensus is gradually shifting, towards actually being respectful to other beings and appreciating something that is not a big deal and is just banter to one, is deeply hurtful to another, or worse...

...and 2) surprise/disappointment at the defensiveness. Sure we don't know details etc, but isn't good to be *open* to the possibility that we aren't perfect and some of our fans may have been out of order? I'm glad and sad at this report, glad the story is opened up, of course sad it's our club. Are we so insecure or immature we can't tolerate or be open to criticism?

Very happy to read about ideas of Rainbow flags etc. I was v keen to have a pro-Tommy Hitz banner the match on TV immediately after he came out. Would love to see him come launch one.

And yes. I know. It's football what do you expect?

Well actually I expect change. I don't see the widespread racism I saw as a kid. I still see and hear the odd bit. It has changed. Needs to more.

I hear less homophobia but there is still plenty.

I'm getting on a bit, but hope to have a kid, and bring him or her to the Villa. I hope I don't have to do what my dad did on occasions and cover my ears or simply pretend it didn't happen.

I don't care if anyone replies and says I'm being PC etc. I sometimes go to football matches in a land where homophobia results in people getting outed in newspapers, being put in prison and being killed from time to time.

Of course it's not that extreme, but, I can imagine how I'd feel if I was gay and having to keep quiet listening to the crap that still gets heard, it's bad enough hearing it when it's not aimed at me. The times they are (thankfully) a-changing. This means things start to get looked at. They weren't before. Deal with it.

Rant over.

Superb post PT, heartfelt and full of hope for all of us and our future generations.

Thank you also for saving me the time of having to explain to Tom the difference between possibility and assumption.

Thank you again for this post.