Eric Black

[Villa in Denmark]

And what if without those 4 or 5 players we see a bit of improvement rather than a total collapse? It's not as if it's guaranteed it will be three 8-0 defeats. Maybe one or two youngsters will step up, put a marker down to be included next season. What I will say is if we continue picking those 4 or 5 players we'll continue to have a 'toxic' atmosphere', we'll almost certainly finish the season with 13 straight defeats. To me we have more to potentially gain than lose.

You could certainly start by binning Richards and Lescott who seem to be the targets for most of the stress relief.

That would however entail bringing Okore back into the fold and pairing him with Clark, which I still think has been our best pairing over the last 2 seasons. Yes damning with faint praise.  That still leaves you with 3 subs to try and do something with as the game progresses, and shifts 2 of the problem people out for players who aren't green, naive or as easily cowed as the youngsters he's worried about.

Okay, let's say they're binned. Okore isn't going to get selected and that seems fair enough - whichever way you think you blame should fall for him being dropped - Clark was injured last week and Baker is on loan. So, for the next game, or even the game against Southampton would you have started with Toner and one of Lescott or Richards? For me that would be unfair on Toner - a player that has hardly warranted a mention to be included int he first team up until now.

I'd missed that Clark was injured.

No I wouldn't start Toner for exactly the reasons you mention, which is I why I suggested binning 2 of the biggest culprits off without having to drop kids into the shitstorm.

[peter w]

So if you don't start Toner, Clark is injured, how can you then bin Lescott and Richards? At least one has to play? And as I said Okore simply is out of the equation. So, again, what options were open to Black at centre-half last Saturday?

[LeeS]

So if you don't start Toner, Clark is injured, how can you then bin Lescott and Richards? At least one has to play? And as I said Okore simply is out of the equation. So, again, what options were open to Black at centre-half last Saturday?

A cone?

[Villa in Denmark]

Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.

I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.

[Mister E]

Okore has refused to play and Bacuna hasn't. No hypocrisy there. He may not be great but he's no worse than most of what we have.

Okore has stated that he would like to stay, even in the 2nd tier, as long as he can get game-time. Bacuna has expressed a very clear desire to eff off.

FWIW, Black seems to be a complete waste of time, with very little intelligence or empathy. As several above have said he seems to have missed the point that his best CV-building approach would have been to have brought some harmony to the club; instead of which he has exacerbated matters with team selections and press comments designed to alienate the fans.

As far as selection is concerned, Green, Davies and Lyden at the very least could have been given some game-time. Had Black shown some nous, he'd have realised that playing som of the youth players would have reduced the booing and generated some positive support for an otherwise-desperate environment.

[aj2k77]

So if you don't start Toner, Clark is injured, how can you then bin Lescott and Richards? At least one has to play? And as I said Okore simply is out of the equation. So, again, what options were open to Black at centre-half last Saturday?

A cone?

A scarecrow.

[peter w]

Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.

I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.

But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.

[ClaretAndBlueBlood]

Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.

I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.

But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Okore disputes that

[peter w]

Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.

I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.

But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Okore disputes that

I know. And if it comes out that he has been dropped by the manager and he's lied about refusing to play then I'm sure the player, his agent, and the PFA will be all over it. I also reckon that Black will make himself nigh on unemployable. Given that his usual job is either a s a coach, or as a number 2 - and for those that have played the game a number 2s main role is to be the laugh in training be the players' mate. On a matchday he'll cajole but be your mate or have an avuncular position. He's the bridge to the manager. You can be afraid of the manager or his reaction but never the number 2 who is the approachable one. On everything. To lie means his reputation in the game will be in tatters. No player will trust him and that kind of stain will not shift.

I tend to believe his side more than Okore's but fully accept that I could be wrong.

[paul_e]

But the key thing is that the situation with Okore only exists because of Black deciding that playing Clark out of position on the right side of the pairing to accommodate Lescott starting.  To then say he has no choice in selection is just plain wrong, he made a choice and created a situation where a player the fans like is out of the equation and 2 players who the fans want out of the club had to play.  To diminish his responsibility in those events makes most of the rest of your argument look forced.

[peter w]

When you're a professional in whatever field you do not simply say you refuse to

But the key thing is that the situation with Okore only exists because of Black deciding that playing Clark out of position on the right side of the pairing to accommodate Lescott starting.  To then say he has no choice in selection is just plain wrong, he made a choice and created a situation where a player the fans like is out of the equation and 2 players who the fans want out of the club had to play.  To diminish his responsibility in those events makes most of the rest of your argument look forced.

The choice was Okore's and he chose not to play. Its a 50/50 call whether he should have been playing up to then but he was dropped. Players get dropped it happens. We don't know what was said behind the scenes or how we approached training but what we do know is that okore was dropped for poor performances and apparently refused to then play in the first team. I cannot find one manager who has picked a player at any level who have said they won't play and then he is immediately picked following that. Black had little realistic choice last Saturday to say otherwise is just wrong.

[ChicagoLion]

I have some sympathy for Okore, and none for Black because he has proved time and time again that he is a fukin idiot.

[brian green]

Tactics Tim played Sanchez at centre back pre season.  He was useless.

[ozzjim]

Scary suggestion in the Mirror that Pearson will keep this complete donkey on. Can't think of anything worse at the moment.

[West Derby Villan]

Yeah just saw that, be afraid, be very afraid