Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: nuninho on March 29, 2016, 09:45:57 PM
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So with Remi gone another assistant steps into the breach. He's an ex Cov and Motherwell manager so has some managerial experience. What is he like in regards playing style / discipline?
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Well he can't be any worse. Impossible to lose another 8 games in a row
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Oh I dunno last seven this season and the first next season should do it.
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Truthfully, no idea. Most likely going to be in place until the end of the season because the incoming manager won't want relegating us on his cv (regardless of the fact he wouldn't have been responsible). Will be gone straight after the last game.
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Wiki says a 33% win percentage, so a vast improvement on what's gone before him.
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Even if he has a style of play and discipline he'll be 1 up on poor Remi
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Who knows what to expect at this club! Chances are Black will be there in eight games time, but not for much longer after that, so make the most of it sir and maybe give us one or two wins to go out on.
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Well he can't be any worse. Impossible to lose another 8 games in a row
Only because there are 7 games left.
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Evening all, just back in from Wembley sat @ fellow Villa fans
No prizes for guessing what the biggest cheer of the night was for!!
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Eric's going to Paint it Black
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How do you get this bunch of unconfident/arrogant/uncaring players to do what they're being asked to do. He's on to a loser here and I feel bad for him already.
That said, best of luck Eric.
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Good bloody luck Eric.
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If he bombs off three players (and I use the term loosely) to train alone far far away from the rest of the squad that'll do me
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Black. Somehow that is the perfect name for our temporary pall bearer. Caretaker manager? No, more Undertaker manager.
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Well he can't be any worse. Impossible to lose another 8 games in a row
Don't bet on it. This bunch of wasters are capable of more unwanted records.
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Holding the reigns until Steve Bruce comes in, in the summer.
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fuck me I hope not.
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At least it's not K bloody Mac.
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At least it's not K bloody Mac.
A sign of lessons being learned, hopefully.
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Well he can't be any worse. Impossible to lose another 8 games in a row
Ah, but if we won all our remaining games, they'll be offering him the job.
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to be honest I'd like to think that they wouldn't.
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Three members of Aberdeen's 1983 Cup Winner Cup winning team have had involvement with Villa. McLeish, Neale Cooper and Eric Black. Four if you count Ferguson's intervention leading to McLeish's appointment.
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At least it's not K bloody Mac.
Indeed, I'm hoping the 'review' lands at his door soon.
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to be honest I'd like to think that they wouldn't.
If he did and kept us up we'd all be demanding it!
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Imagine if he did something stupid like won 6 of the last 7, would we keep him? (In this highly likely hypothetical scenario, where I'm about to meet Mila Kunis after work for a drink).
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xactly if he did it would be the biggest freak since Fright Night 28 and it wouldn't be sustainable
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Imagine if he did something stupid like won 6 of the last 7, would we keep him? (In this highly likely hypothetical scenario, where I'm about to meet Mila Kunis after work for a drink).
6 out of 7 would still relegate us.
7 out of 7 and keeping us up? We'd build a statue!
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At least it's not K bloody Mac.
A sign of lessons being learned, hopefully.
When the Hollis broom has finally swept clean by the time summer arrives, I hope Auntie Kev and Uncle Sid, the Hinge and Bracket of Bodymoor Heath, have disappeared too. Nice people, one an ex playing legend and the other an all round good guy who is popular with the kids at the Academy, but both bloody useless at their jobs. They've been running a very expensive Academy for years that just doesn't work. It's hardly generated a Premiership quality young player in 8 years. Don't give me Clark, Grealish and Baker, please, and the few who have made it to first team football are plying their trade in the Championship and Division 1 (Lichaj, Baker, Weimann, Hogg, Lowry, Burke, Robinson, Johnson, Bannon etc). Oh, I forgot, I see two of them are currently gracing Division 2 when they're not pissing into pint pots at high profile race meetings in the full glare of the press. Forget tinpot Under 18 trophies, the Villa Academy is a running joke; an unproductive white elephant that is a conveyor belt to obscurity for footballing mediocrities. Not even a Demarei Gray or Nathan Redmond, let alone a Barkley, Kane, Mason, Stones or Shaw. The whole bloody shambles needs a drastic overhaul, starting with a cull of the current coaching and recruitment staff. Like nearly every other part of what is a thoroughly rotten organisation, the Villa Academy has been an abject failure for many years. MacDonald and Cowans aren't totally responsible for what's gone wrong, but they're part of the lazy and complacent comfort blanket that has descended on a once proud club, suffocating it to near death.
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Oh I dunno last seven this season and the first next season should do it.
You mean there are still 21 points to be won? Come on Eric this is your time son win all 7 and I will polish your shoes for the rest of your life!
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At least it's not K bloody Mac.
A sign of lessons being learned, hopefully.
When the Hollis broom has finally swept clean by the time summer arrives, I hope Auntie Kev and Uncle Sid, the Hinge and Bracket of Bodymoor Heath, have disappeared too. Nice people, one an ex playing legend and the other an all round good guy who is popular with the kids at the Academy, but both bloody useless at their jobs. They've been running a very expensive Academy for years that just doesn't work. It's hardly generated a Premiership quality young player in 8 years. Don't give me Clark, Grealish and Baker, please, and the few who have made it to first team football are plying their trade in the Championship and Division 1 (Lichaj, Baker, Weimann, Hogg, Lowry, Burke, Robinson, Johnson, Bannon etc). Oh, I forgot, I see two of them are currently gracing Division 2 when they're not pissing into pint pots at high profile race meetings in the full glare of the press. Forget tinpot Under 18 trophies, the Villa Academy is a running joke; an unproductive white elephant that is a conveyor belt to obscurity for footballing mediocrities. Not even a Demarei Gray or Nathan Redmond, let alone a Barkley, Kane, Mason, Stones or Shaw. The whole bloody shambles needs a drastic overhaul, starting with a cull of the current coaching and recruitment staff. Like nearly every other part of what is a thoroughly rotten organisation, the Villa Academy has been an abject failure for many years. MacDonald and Cowans aren't totally responsible for what's gone wrong, but they're part of the lazy and complacent comfort blanket that has descended on a once proud club, suffocating it to near death.
Just one short of a full house. If only you'd asked how low we've sunk.
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Succinct, Dave
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Eric Black would love to take maximum points from the closing games of 2015/16 - but says the No.1 requirement is bringing the pride and credibility back into Aston Villa.
Black takes charge against Chelsea on Saturday - and the coming encounters until a new manager is appointed, following the departure of Rémi Garde .
Black accepts it's been a hugely upsetting period for the Club but suggests now is the perfect time to plot an upward curve for the claret and blues.
He said: "We have to try and change something. I said that to the players.
"We have to take this next seven games and get some respect back into the Club and show the supporters what it means to the players.
"I can't do that - I can help that process. But ultimately I won't be out on the field.
"It's up to the players to show what it means to them.
"We have seven very difficult games - but very competitive games. We're not down yet and the Club now has to change direction.
"I would just like the fans to feel like we're heading in another direction. That's not their responsibility - it's the responsibility of the Club and the players.
"I just want them to feel like we've come to a line in the sand and we're now moving on with a different atmosphere.
"I can understand their frustrations. It's been an enormously difficult time for a fantastic football Club.
"But I think we need to look forward now and we need them with us without doubt, more than we need anyone else."
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When he wins every game and keeps us up do we keep him on or still go for Moyes?
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I think when he wins every game, the alarm goes off and it's Monday morning.
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well he's just picked the same old shite as the previous 2 so it's a no from me
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Eric Black would love to take maximum points from the closing games of 2015/16 - but says the No.1 requirement is bringing the pride and credibility back into Aston Villa.
Black takes charge against Chelsea on Saturday - and the coming encounters until a new manager is appointed, following the departure of Rémi Garde .
Black accepts it's been a hugely upsetting period for the Club but suggests now is the perfect time to plot an upward curve for the claret and blues.
He said: "We have to try and change something. I said that to the players.
"We have to take this next seven games and get some respect back into the Club and show the supporters what it means to the players.
"I can't do that - I can help that process. But ultimately I won't be out on the field.
"It's up to the players to show what it means to them.
"We have seven very difficult games - but very competitive games. We're not down yet and the Club now has to change direction.
"I would just like the fans to feel like we're heading in another direction. That's not their responsibility - it's the responsibility of the Club and the players.
"I just want them to feel like we've come to a line in the sand and we're now moving on with a different atmosphere.
"I can understand their frustrations. It's been an enormously difficult time for a fantastic football Club.
"But I think we need to look forward now and we need them with us without doubt, more than we need anyone else."
reading this in the context of that performance, and your next idea Mr Black is?
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Couldn't answer the question "do you think the team showed enough effort".
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Waste of time. Might as well black bag him in the canal as well and let the pricks manage themselves.
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He was on a hiding to nothing and true to form he got a hiding. He saw first hand what it is like to manage this Aston Villa with us conceding twice inside a minute or so either side of HT. Fucking joke.
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A no from me. The Adama decision really pissed me off. No imagination at all.
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Selecting the same old shit, other than Agbonlahor, earned a no from me straight away. Just as bad as anyone else but at least he tried to answer the questions put to him afterwards. But, another unmotivated performance from the team today when you would think that they would be trying to pave the way for their move to another club.
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A no from me. The Adama decision really pissed me off. No imagination at all.
You keep mentioning that but how do you know he isn't match fit yet? He seems to be made of glass so it wouldn't be too surprising.
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Adama was declared fit yesterday. Left out completely.
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They said they would assess him in training yesterday to see if he was fit enough.
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Not sure one young player would have changed todays game anyway tbh. Hard to do when 5 or 6 of the rest of them very obviously do not want to be playing for us at all.
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Letting Westwood take any set pieces at all is a sackable offence.
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Howcome no one with any position of power at the club during the last 4 years has noticed that Westwood can't strike the ball properly half the time. It's like he plays in a giant pair of boots.
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and yet successive managers keep selecting him.
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Black's not up to it, his selections today proved that in my opinion.
We need the new man (or woman) in quickly
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Howcome no one with any position of power at the club during the last 4 years has noticed that Westwood can't strike the ball properly half the time. It's like he plays in a giant pair of boots.
I believe when he was scouted it was remarked that he had feet like marshmallows.
It was taken that this was in reference to his fine control, however I subsequently think that may be a mistake.
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I am pretty sure the arrival of Eric Cack has coincided with us losing seven games in a row.
I would suggest Garde new the writing was on the wall when he came in but he really has had a great impact hasn't he!!!
God lets just get to May please
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Black is merely the helpless driver of a runaway train. There is nothing he can do that will change a single thing. We need to purge this horrible lot as soon as we possibly can.
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Eric Black would love to take maximum points from the closing games of 2015/16 - but says the No.1 requirement is bringing the pride and credibility back into Aston Villa.
Black takes charge against Chelsea on Saturday - and the coming encounters until a new manager is appointed, following the departure of Rémi Garde .
Black accepts it's been a hugely upsetting period for the Club but suggests now is the perfect time to plot an upward curve for the claret and blues.
He said: "We have to try and change something. I said that to the players.
"We have to take this next seven games and get some respect back into the Club and show the supporters what it means to the players.
"I can't do that - I can help that process. But ultimately I won't be out on the field.
"It's up to the players to show what it means to them.
"We have seven very difficult games - but very competitive games. We're not down yet and the Club now has to change direction.
"I would just like the fans to feel like we're heading in another direction. That's not their responsibility - it's the responsibility of the Club and the players.
"I just want them to feel like we've come to a line in the sand and we're now moving on with a different atmosphere.
"I can understand their frustrations. It's been an enormously difficult time for a fantastic football Club.
"But I think we need to look forward now and we need them with us without doubt, more than we need anyone else."
That worked well, missed comment earlier
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Some of the so called performances out there sends a clear message to the stands that some of the players are not going to sweat blood for Black. Let Little take charge for the remainder of the season.
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What I did notice was even though Black was whistling to get individuals attention those players ignored him as the game went on including the first half when we were only one down
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Not sure one young player would have changed todays game anyway tbh. Hard to do when 5 or 6 of the rest of them very obviously do not want to be playing for us at all.
I know the bomb squad was a bad idea before but if ever there is a need for another bomb squad I'd do it for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't care if we had to pay them off so they never ever put in a Villa shirt again.
Wankers.
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Not sure one young player would have changed todays game anyway tbh. Hard to do when 5 or 6 of the rest of them very obviously do not want to be playing for us at all.
I know the bomb squad was a bad idea before but if ever there is a need for another bomb squad I'd do it for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't care if we had to pay them off so they never ever put in a Villa shirt again.
Wankers.
I'd like any forthcoming bomb squad to use actual bombs instead of footballs.
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Black is merely the helpless driver of a runaway train. There is nothing he can do that will change a single thing. We need to purge this horrible lot as soon as we possibly can.
Entirely agree with this. The only difference that a new permanent manager is potentially going to make is giving themselves 6-7 weeks to get thoroughly pissed with everything as well.
As an side did I imagine it, did Black also imply that too many players weren't putting the effort in in his post match interview?
There's only been 1 constant in the shitstorm of this season and it hasn't been whoever is occupying the manager's chair.
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He's got some help moving 'the cones' about.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-eric-black-hired-11139444
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He's got some help moving 'the cones' about.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-eric-black-hired-11139444
More like moving the deckchairs on the Titanic , ......Godzvilla!
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Some of the so called performances out there sends a clear message to the stands that some of the players are not going to sweat blood for Black. Let Little take charge for the remainder of the season.
What makes you think they'd sweat blood for Brian? They haven't for Black, Garde, MacDonald, Sherwood, Lambert and in some cases McLeish, McAllister or Houllier either. Could it be that they are mostly just lazy tossers who don't care?
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Black is merely the helpless driver of a runaway train. There is nothing he can do that will change a single thing. We need to purge this horrible lot as soon as we possibly can.
As an side did I imagine it, did Black also imply that too many players weren't putting the effort in in his post match interview?
There's only been 1 constant in the shitstorm of this season and it hasn't been whoever is occupying the manager's chair.
Yeah it definitely came across that way to me in the post match interview too.
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Even when relegated I am sure they have a responsibility to field the strongest team they can
I don't think he could drop an entire team, although on the evidence of this season alone there would be little the FA could argue with if he did drop the lot
He must know he is fucked so he could at least do the next best thing to naming the cancerous bunch and drop them
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Given he only took over first team duties midweek and presumably a few of the players were away on international duty I am willing to forgive him his rather dull/predictable/same old shit team selection last weekend
I am hoping he has however now seen enough of Guzan, Hutton, Lescott, Richards, Sanchez and co to realise they are garbage and will make some changes
As a minimum I would want to see Clark, Okore, Grealish and Adama all in this weekend please!
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Two words -
1. Deckchairs
2. Titanic
It's hopeless.
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Aren't most of our reserves/promising youngsters on loan at other clubs, so we don't have many alternatives other than the likes of N'zogbia or raw youth players.
Kinsella, Baker, Gardner, Bennett, Robinson and Steer would probably be no worse than what we have at the moment, but they're just not available.
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Maybe he gave certain players one last chance to prove us wrong, I hope it was just one anyway cos they never. See who he picks for bournemouth.
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I'd rather see seven dwarfs and snow white in C&B than any of the usual cartoonish numpties.
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They could all come on to the Disney Snow White theme song. "Hey Ho, Hey Ho, It's off to work we go.". Like it.
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I'd rather see seven dwarfs and snow white in C&B than any of the usual cartoonish numpties.
We have more than one Dopey though.
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Aren't most of our reserves/promising youngsters on loan at other clubs, so we don't have many alternatives other than the likes of N'zogbia or raw youth players.
Kinsella, Baker, Gardner, Bennett, Robinson and Steer would probably be no worse than what we have at the moment, but they're just not available.
I'd say call them back immediately but I just read this from an interview with Black that was on the OS on Monday.
But the 52-year-old is wary of negatively affecting the lads as they start on their football journey in a tough environment, with Villa bottom of the table.
He added: "It's a dilemma.
"Are the young players ready to play in that kind of atmosphere? Do we want to throw them into the lurch?
"We are still playing in probably the best league in the world regardless of people's opinion.
"Sometimes it is not necessarily the best thing for young players.
"The Club is obviously facing difficulties at the moment and they are trying to rectify the problems that have been here - not just for this week.
"So they are doing that and we'll continue to be as professional as we possibly can and try and get that fans - in whatever small way - back onside with us."
So it doesn't look likely. Although arguably if Black did put out younger players who hadn't necessarily played this season and they at least showed effort it would reduce the hostility.
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I'd rather see seven dwarfs and snow white in C&B than any of the usual cartoonish numpties.
We have more than one Dopey though.
And 30,000 Grumpy's in the stands. Rumours that Richards and Gabby were auditioning for Bashful are unfounded. Especially as Richards has got competition for Sleepy
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Any reason why the new manager thread has been locked ?
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I hope he puts some yoof in so we can sing
Do the Eric Black
And put the freshness back
Do the Eric black and put the freshness back
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Some of the so called performances out there sends a clear message to the stands that some of the players are not going to sweat blood for Black. Let Little take charge for the remainder of the season.
What makes you think they'd sweat blood for Brian? They haven't for Black, Garde, MacDonald, Sherwood, Lambert and in some cases McLeish, McAllister or Houllier either. Could it be that they are mostly just lazy tossers who don't care?
Hold up there, that's a pretty big time period your covering. The squad looked very different when Houllier and McAllister were around. I think maybe Little is best sticking to a job behind the scenes, not sure he really wants to get his hands dirty with this lot.
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Some of the so called performances out there sends a clear message to the stands that some of the players are not going to sweat blood for Black. Let Little take charge for the remainder of the season.
What makes you think they'd sweat blood for Brian? They haven't for Black, Garde, MacDonald, Sherwood, Lambert and in some cases McLeish, McAllister or Houllier either. Could it be that they are mostly just lazy tossers who don't care?
Hold up there, that's a pretty big time period your covering. The squad looked very different when Houllier and McAllister were around. I think maybe Little is best sticking to a job behind the scenes, not sure he really wants to get his hands dirty with this lot.
That's why I listed the first five and then said 'and in some cases' i.e. Hutton and N'Zogbia from the McLeish era, and Gabby from the Houllier/McAllister era.
The squad may have looked very different, but we were still saying the same things about unprofessionalism (Collins, Dunne) then.
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I'm looking forward to Blacks team selection tomorrow in the sense I think hes gonna ditch the driftwood so to speak, we know the players that are that, so it seems does this Eric black guy.
Hoping he's gonna play some Villa boys, lyden green grealish Clark. Traore back and Rudi boy that's over half a team there who can start us of again....have to wait and see iguess see what he does come on Villa
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Seems like a decent chap, says the right things, and I like the fact he was hoarse in that interview. None of this matters of course but at least there is a bit of dignity
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Yeah he's saying all the right thing. Seems like a pretty good egg, and hope he can get the odd point, and half decent performance before he steps down in the summer. I do feel for him.
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The addition of an assistant suggests no permanent appointment is on the horizon.
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The addition of an assistant suggests no permanent appointment is on the horizon.
I don't think there will be before May, but I do expect one in the summer, if not we might as well write off next season...
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Has he not read any of the notes written by previous manager, caretaker managers coaches etc
has he been taken in by the way players are able to waltz around the cones in practice?
No better than Lambert,Sherwood,etc, if gabby hadn't got the "sniffles" then he would have started as well.
It's beyond comprehension
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Pitiful team selection today.
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Doing his very best Kmac impression.
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Absolutely dreadful team selection today.
Nothing to lose, play Adama and Grealish, try for just a little excitement on a day where we are doomed.
But no. Bacuna, Westwood and fucking Richardson in midfield.
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Sorry for the duplication because I've just posted this on the match thread:
Mr Black, do us all a favour and fuck off asap.
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When you have a bit of a free hit like Black has then I don't really get the lack of guts in the team selection. He bascially he has nothing to lose. Its different when you were the full-time manager who appointment most of these muppets ::)
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Im still trying to get my head around Bacuna, Richardson (forgot he existed) and Westwood in midfield.
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do one Eric you're shite.
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They say a bad workman blames his tools, but boy, do we have a lot of tools.
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A K Mac level of fuckwittery today.
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He fucking bottled it. We really have had a bunch of shit, inept and cowardly managers. Stunning
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My theory is he is letting the ****** face the fans
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My theory is he is letting the c***s face the fans
Then he would have started Richards
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He's doing it for us...he's trying to get the relegation done as fast as possible so we don't have suffer any more. It's a shame Norwich didn't read the script.
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This is why he's only ever the bridesmaid.
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in which case I'm very grateful I wasn't invited to the wedding
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Interviewed on Final Score he said "We go again..."
Groundhog day?
This is only a nightmare/medically induced coma/LSD experiment, isn't it?
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Lambert, Sherwood, Kmac, Garde, Black...Even if some of them started with some confidence and had us playing on the front foot, their fear of getting thrashed and humiliated has eventually made them all play far too cautiously for us to stand any chance of winning games. Hats off to Black for completing his cycle so quickly.
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He obviously read the previous managers notes on how to lose matches and piss people off.
Quickest pay off on record!
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What a woeful team selection, Grealish getting 8 minutes at the end?!
You sometimes wonder about all these coaches with a million FA coaching badges and qualifications and what they actually get taught when you see nonsense teams like today, I think every fan on the Holte End would've picked a better team today.
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Interviewed on Final Score he said "We go again..."
Groundhog day?
This is only a nightmare/medically induced coma/LSD experiment, isn't it?
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Not we go again....
Were we excellent as well?
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Proved just as clueless as his predecessors. I'm sure they would take great delight in telling us that we know nothing because we've never played the game, but how on earth can anyone have all week to prepare a team and come to the conclusion that playing Richardson would be a good idea?
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The only joy we were getting first half was getting in behind them and using pace. Sinclair and Ayew were causing them problems, should have brought on Adama for the second half and just run at them.
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You come into a situation were you can't lose and you manage too pick that team..
How?
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Sack black..
And fuck off
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What a useless twat , we all needs a lift and he makes Kevin Mac look creative.
Why take Lyden off at half time and why leave it way to late to put Adama And Jack on , who both should have started, why put Gestede on at half time and give him no chance of attacking balls from wide ?
Bloody frustrating!
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It's so hugely frustrating, you're so right.
Just like K Mac at Southampton, no pressure, put an exciting team out and try and win the game.
No. Drops anyone with any ounce of talent and we just surrender to another predicable defeat.
Fucking pathetic, the pair of em.
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we may as well just put a microwave meal in the dug out
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I've said this before but if you deliberately set out to sabotage a team-club you'd probably pick the side that was put out today. Is there another manager on God's earth who would've picked Richardson today apart from Sherwood or Lambert?
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You have had your few minutes in the limelight, looking after a premier league team.
Thanks.
Bye.
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why do successive managers keep doing it? Everyone knows the players concerned are fuckwits but they keep on getting selected. It's the true definition of madness
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Eric Black BBC interview:
"I'm sure it's not easy to play in that atmosphere, but there have only been two or three victories here this season so I won't be criticising the supporters.
"They turned out again today, which I find remarkable. This is certainly not down to the supporters."
Thanks Eric - we're in the clear lads, its not our fault.
Useless fucking wanker.
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Eric Black BBC interview:
"I'm sure it's not easy to play in that atmosphere, but there have only been two or three victories here this season so I won't be criticising the supporters.
"They turned out again today, which I find remarkable. This is certainly not down to the supporters."
Thanks Eric - we're in the clear lads, its not our fault.
Useless fucking wanker.
Just to reiterate. Duck off Eric, you ducking twanker.
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That's a weight off my mind, I was thinking it was all my fault.
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He can fuck off and take a load of 'em with him
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Useless. Utterly pointless. He's been a disaster since he arrived. From the moment he stepped in the door to assist Garde, we seemed to get worse if anything. Todays lineup was an abomination. We're down. We're gone, so why not fucking show some bottle and try and go out guns blazing. What a thoroughly pathetic way to bow out ungracefully from the Premier League.
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When he says it's not our fault it's like he's saying it's our fault.
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we may as well just put a microwave meal in the dug out
Replace kmac and black with a big mac and mac and cheese
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"They turned out today, which I find remarkable." Because you know you can't get a side to compete, presumably.
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He should be dismissed with immediate effect for deliberately not doing his job. At best a coward, at worst a sadist.
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The bloke is a Fkin clown.
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He should be dismissed with immediate effect for deliberately not doing his job. At best a coward, at worst a sadist.
Totally agree. He should be thinking of the club's future, not giving a runout to someone whose contract is up anyway in a few weeks time.
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To be fair, he has had nothing to do with the free fall of the club at all, has been in the door 5 mins, was asked to step up knowing full well he isn't going to be the new manager and he is going to oversee relegation, and is likely taking orders from above re what team to pick.
Not bothered whether he goes or stays - not the source of the problem, not even close to it!
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To be fair, he has had nothing to do with the free fall of the club at all, has been in the door 5 mins, was asked to step up knowing full well he isn't going to be the new manager and he is going to oversee relegation, and is likely taking orders from above re what team to pick.
Not bothered whether he goes or stays - not the source of the problem, not even close to it!
I'm concerned if he stays.
He had an opportunity to pick a positive offensive line up today with the players at his disposal and also enhance his chances of having some sort of involvement in the future.
Instead he picks a safety first, defensive, negative and frankly bizarre line up in a game where he had absolutely nothing to lose.
Piss poor.
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"positive, offensive line up"?
Uh who would that have been?
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To be fair, he has had nothing to do with the free fall of the club at all, has been in the door 5 mins, was asked to step up knowing full well he isn't going to be the new manager and he is going to oversee relegation, and is likely taking orders from above re what team to pick.
Not bothered whether he goes or stays - not the source of the problem, not even close to it!
I'm concerned if he stays.
He had an opportunity to pick a positive offensive line up today with the players at his disposal and also enhance his chances of having some sort of involvement in the future.
Instead he picks a safety first, defensive, negative and frankly bizarre line up in a game where he had absolutely nothing to lose.
Piss poor.
Up to a point you could understand the defensive 1st half had we not concededed a goal in injury time. Then go for it 2nd half.
Problem was we didn't go for it after the break, Adama and Grelish should have started 2nd half with Gestede - Richardson, Lyden, and ano off
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I found it a very offensive line up.
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Seems strange black is getting pelters for his team selection when a month ago Garde seemed to be forgiven almost anything because "they're all rubbish" or "not his team" He's not our Manager and certainly has a hell of a lot less to do with our downfall this season than anyone else in charge. Give the guy a break as we'd be hard pressed to find anyone to do the job for what they're probably paying him.
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Perhaps the reaction by some on here is a good reason not to appoint the new manager until the season is finished
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Perhaps the reaction by some on here is a good reason not to appoint the new manager until the season is finished
Wise words indeed
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It's a way to put players in the shop window. Presumably a lot of players and their agents will be looking for the escape route right now. They will be counting on talent spotters thinking, 'if he wasn't in that team, just look at the potential!'
And no, I don't have the answer to, ' but what if they're really shit?'.
I can't blame Eric Black for trying to offload!
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More evidence, if any was needed, that its the players' attitude and not the manager which* is the problem.
* educated folk: Grammatically should that be 'which' or 'that'?
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More evidence, if any was needed, that its the players' attitude and not the manager which* is the problem.
* educated folk: Grammatically should that be 'which' or 'that'?
It's*
:P
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More evidence, if any was needed, that its the players' attitude and not the manager which* is the problem.
* educated folk: Grammatically should that be 'which' or 'that'?
It's*
:P
Ah, you're right. Perhaps it is better not to care, especially after a few drinks...
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I found it a very offensive line up.
Same here, possibly the most offensive I've seen in a long time. All that was missing was Richards and Agbonlahor.
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Or the least offensive side he could have picked deciding to play Richardson, Westwood and Bacuna. No offensive threat at all in fact.
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Like i've just said on the post match thread, playing Richardson didn't make any sense. It's as if he spotted him on the training ground and remembered he was still with us.
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Lots of mistakes today from Black. The side picked, taking off Lyden and not Westwood, or Richardson, playing with Sinclair on the wing and having no target man, playing Guzan, Bacuna, Westwood, yet again. Leaving Richardson on for so long when he offered less than nothing. Seemingly, if the Manager doesn't give a shit, why should the players? Crap all round today.
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He's set a new high; now not only do I want to punch all the players, I want to punch the ****** of a manager too. Hapless fucking wankstain.
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He's set a new high; now not only do I want to punch all the players, I want to punch the c*** of a manager too. Hapless fucking wankstain.
Mr Cockthrottle, don't hold back my friend!! Ha ha
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Just seen his post match interview on MOTD. It was all about the supporters.
Telling the world he can't criticise the supporters is like criticising the supporters.
There was absolutely no need to mention the fans at all.
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Anarchy beckons according to Eric: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-first-team-squad-11190145
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Anarchy beckons according to Eric: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-first-team-squad-11190145
Good
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How can they not give a fuck more than they already not give a fuck? Having said that I am sure our boys will find a way.
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I doubt too many of them give a shit. Too busy thinking about moving on. They should spare a thought for the poor fuckers they've made redundant because of their lack of fuck giving. Tossers.
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How can they not give a fuck more than they already not give a fuck? Having said that I am sure our boys will find a way.
His comments today are just awful. The man has not got a clue on how to get a grip. No wonder we actually got worse after his arrival! I hope he is out the door the moment a new man comes in. In fact I hope we actually see a decent coaching setup put in place that is not reliant on 2-3 people at the top and has others in it. Kevin Mac alluded to their not being enough senior coaches at the club, it needs to be addressed.
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He's certainly not really got a grip on media relations yet.
Or team selection based on last week.
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Maybe he is right. Maybe Garde was right too. What harm can it do, putting it out in the public domain. It's hardly going to make things worse. Why should a manager take more than his fair share of pelters for that money grubbing lot?
Too many players at the club can't give a fuck. And will give even less of a fuck given the chance to do so. On the evidence of this season I can believe that. The players we have been putting out are not 3 wins in a season players, there has to be something else going on.
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He had a pretty low bar to hit , just give us back a little dignity, scrape a few results and go down with a bit of fight. He has failed to hit that low bar. Yes the players deserve all the criticism they get but wow, Eric B has not made any positive impact at all.
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He had a pretty low bar to hit , just give us back a little dignity, scrape a few results and go down with a bit of fight. He has failed to hit that low bar. Yes the players deserve all the criticism they get but wow, Eric B has not made any positive impact at all.
If you were expecting him to scrape a few results or get any fight out of these players, you were expecting too much. Why would he succeed where so many others have failed? These players aren't going to fight. Whether it's Sherwood, Garde, KMac, Black or Mourinho in charge. The most rotten squad of 'Premier League' players I've ever seen.
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He had a pretty low bar to hit , just give us back a little dignity, scrape a few results and go down with a bit of fight. He has failed to hit that low bar. Yes the players deserve all the criticism they get but wow, Eric B has not made any positive impact at all.
If you were expecting him to scrape a few results or get any fight out of these players, you were expecting too much. Why would he succeed where so many others have failed? These players aren't going to fight. Whether it's Sherwood, Garde, KMac, Black or Mourinho in charge. The most rotten squad of 'Premier League' players I've ever seen.
Cant argue with that. At some point he should just drop the feckers and play the kids. Right now its a seriously possibility we might end the season without another win. Thats just... well not something I expect from Aston Villa.
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Our plight is essentially the result of the current structure of transfer windows and players' contracts. If you blunder, which we did massively, with players' contracts you get saddled with players like Agbonlahor, Richards, Lescott, Westwood, Bacuna and Okore who are unmotivatable because their contracts are get out of jail cards. Add to that allowing players you need to go out on loan regardless of foreseeable calamities like Guzan and Bunn simultaneously mentally collapsing and you are in further trouble.
The final twist of the contractual dagger comes if you simply ignore the transfer window in January for financial reasons. Our board made yet another losing roll of the dice by not backing Remi Garde in January, presumably on the grounds that inflated fees and wage demands should be resisted. The net result is that we are here on the the day we will be relegated without ever since the start of the season looking like we would even try to fight let alone actually do any fighting.
Before get out clauses and buy back clauses and relegation clauses and mandatory play if fit clauses and cowards' virus, managers could demand obedience to the cause. Now players can simply do what they did to Remi Garde. To all intents and purposes go out to lose, like they did against Liverpool.
In the old days you did not have the utter inevitability of relegation we have suffered for most of the season. As well as the contractual security of non performing players not existing, players could be parachuted in right up to the last day. Our fat lady sang loud and clear on 2nd February.
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Thank heavens that we have relegation as an option then and we don't have to put up with what's been going on for the past 5 years for ever and a day just because there is no relegation from the PL.
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Agree OTN.
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I almost long for the days when players were paid the "extras" in their boots, at least you felt they were like us.
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Wasn't it Gregory who sorted Gareth Barry's first big contract at the club, and then said something similar to him being on say £10k a week basic but if he plays and scores etc then his money doubled or something along those lines?
That's what is needed again in my opinion, a ceiling on wages (100k per week say) and then if you start you get x if you play 90 minutes you get x and if you score or assist you get more on top.
I think the amount they get paid these days does it really matter if you earn say 70k a week instead of 50k? You can live whatever lifestyle you want anyway and pay for any car/house etc once you have got your first contract so for some I can imagine it gets hard to be motivated to perform every week.
If you stripped it back to a basic wage and then incentivised it heavily with performance related bonuses I think you find a lot more effort week in week out, far too late for this to happen but just my thoughts.
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Yes and Stanley Matthews was hauled up before the FA disciplinary committee for accepting a trifling sum for allowing the Co op to market boots with his replica autograph on them. A man who put 10,000 on the gate everywhere he went. Our heroes were really heroic back then. They suffered just like us.
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Black fears anarchy after relegation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36059405
Is that an improvement on what we have at the moment?
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Maybe he is right. Maybe Garde was right too. What harm can it do, putting it out in the public domain. It's hardly going to make things worse. Why should a manager take more than his fair share of pelters for that money grubbing lot?
Too many players at the club can't give a fuck. And will give even less of a fuck given the chance to do so. On the evidence of this season I can believe that. The players we have been putting out are not 3 wins in a season players, there has to be something else going on.
This is more aligned to my thinking. I suspect that he's been told to make a few players' positions untenable. He has publicly ridiculed Gabby and will probably reveal more about the unmotivated ones over the coming weeks. Selflessly, this may damage his ability to manage the current squad however it should help crowbar a few of the wasters from the club come the summer.
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EB is just the latest in a long line of managers not up to the task. He comes across as clueless, TBH.
Players might just give up when relegation is confirmed? - you mean they didn't several months' ago?!
Relegation will come as a massive relief and a chance to properly lance the boil that is the squad.
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Agree absolutely Mr E Eric Black is another in the chain right back to MON who has been given a script and told to read it. Half the appeal of the forbidden fruit that is Nigel Pearson is that he will tear up the script that builds to the climax "we go again".
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Black fears anarchy after relegation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36059405
Is that an improvement on what we have at the moment?
I'm probably being petty here but what's all this "they're going to get relegated"? Shouldn't that be "we're going to get relegated"? And what's this 'turning into anarchy' about - it's already chaos on the pitch with players either not good enough,not trying or, in the captain's case, finding excuses to not even show up,so I'm struggling to see how much worse it could get in terms of the players this season. At least we've taken steps at board level to start to do things the way should have been for the last 5 years
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I think Black is in an unenviable position. He knows his days are numbered and so will have one eye on his next job. Under those circumstances then just marking time until the inevitable happens is perfectly understandable.
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What the fuck is Black on about in those comments?
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The more I hear about the goings on at villa park the more I wonder how long it will take to put things right. Good people are loosing their jobs. The top earners at doing just as they please by the sound of it. I should imagine there are some bitter people at the park at the moment and who can blame them.
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I think he is saying that Villa have a squad full of wankers who don't give a shit for the club or the fans, iwould like those players to be called out for what they are, name them shame them.
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What the fuck is Black on about in those comments?
The players don't want to play any more is how I read it.
Pay up the contracts, fuck them off out of the club and lets start again.
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Total bunch of twats, fuck em all off, bastards
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I can understand the players thinking that if Lerner doesn't turn up then why should they? And perhaps if they've read comments on here they've thought if you think I'm not trying now then watch and weep. But at the back of their minds must be the question of their next employment. Who's going to risk comtaminating their squad with the likes of Bacuna, Richards, Lescott and The Fatboy?
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I can understand the players thinking that if Lerner doesn't turn up then why should they? And perhaps if they've read comments on here they've thought if you think I'm not trying now then watch and weep. But at the back of their minds must be the question of their next employment. Who's going to risk comtaminating their squad with the likes of Bacuna, Richards, Lescott and The Fatboy?
First, as we've debated many times, whether an owner turns up or not doesn't seem to have much effect on other clubs. Second, I doubt very much if any of this lot could be bothered to log on here, much less care one way or another about what's said. Third, sadly they will all get a club next season, and at the sort of money the rest of us could only dream of.
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I agree somewhat with Dante.
Essentially Black is taking one on the chin,illuminating our wretchedness up for the world to grasp even more.Quite possibly with the tacit agreement of the board,he's been told to dig deep with the blame game and watch the chancers squirm.Good
No doubt he'll be a casualty of whoever arrives,and he's probably on a short term contract,so there's little in it except perhaps a little personal and professional pride for him.Hopefully he's laying the seeds for a pre-season of physical and mental redemption.
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I agree somewhat with Dante.
Essentially Black is taking one on the chin,illuminating our wretchedness up for the world to grasp even more.Quite possibly with the tacit agreement of the board,he's been told to dig deep with the blame game and watch the chancers squirm.Good
No doubt he'll be a casualty of whoever arrives,and he's probably on a short term contract,so there's little in it except perhaps a little personal and professional pride for him.Hopefully he's laying the seeds for a pre-season of physical and mental redemption.
Totally agree. I don't get the criticism of Black. How can you motivate a dead mongrel? It's like blaming the emergency services for an earthquake. None of it is his fault. At least we and the wider football world are starting to hear the truth about the players. And I suspect more truth could be in the pipeline.
Rather than EB, I'm more concerned that Radar O'Reilly is still with us.
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I find the talk of 'anarchy' to be yet another humiliating moment for the supporters. Is there no mention of accountability and performance in the players' contracts? For example, why are we not being told that Agbonlahor is being fined (as you would do for most players who have broken their contract). Don't they have weight targets to maintain? I understood that they have to return after the summer break in good condition otherwise they get fined?
If the club trying to protect Agbonlahor's personal well being or an 'asset' they are hoping to sell?
I'm a bit baffled.
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As much as the players and have have really let us down, I find it incredibly disappointing at the amount of our laundry being washed in public by the various "managers" we have employed this season. It hasn't helped at all in our attempts to turn the situation around. There has been any number of occasions where we might have taken advantage of the struggles of other sides above us to close the gap and we didn't because in part, the manager at the time couldn't unite the squad. I'm not suggesting for one minute that is or was easy, but telling the world what wankers they are hardly aided matters.
I would much rather we took the approach of removing the unwanted players like we have now done with Gabby and concentrating on the other squad members to try and improve the situation. Instead it appears each manager has compounded the situation with their public comments about the squad.
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How can the squad be in limbo? They're totally responsible for their position. It's not as if they're going to play any better once they have an R next to their name. If that were true, we could all lump our life savings on a result at Old Trafford should Norwich get an equaliser.
Black fears anarchy? It's been anarchic all season.
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...and he says he wants to get results for the Club, whilst picking the same shite all over again.
Absolutely woeful side. There's no pressure, we're down, put out a side our travelling fans, and all our fans, could be proud of.
But no..
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What the fuck is Black on about in those comments?
That the team is unmanageable.
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Another fucking diabolical selection.
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Yet again picks a shower of c**ts.
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Wanker
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the bloke is a useless c***
we would have been better off without a manager
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the bloke is a useless c***
we would have been better off without a manager
End the season as we started it then?
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I can picture Black and K Mac sitting around a pub table in a few years time and one of them saying " D'ya remember when we really fucked up the Villa with our team selections when we were caretaker managers?" and the other nodding in agreement and grinning. Fuck the pair of them off asap. Treacherous bastards. Caretaker just about sums them up, caretaker of the local piss corner.
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the bloke is a useless c***
we would have been better off without a manager
Impossible job. He's just going through the motions. Not to blame for the absolute catastrophe this club has become. Blame the players, board, owners
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I can picture Black and K Mac sitting around a pub table in a few years time and one of them saying " D'ya remember when we really fucked up the Villa with our team selections when we were caretaker managers?" and the other nodding in agreement and grinning. Fuck the pair of them off asap. Treacherous bastards. Caretaker just about sums them up, caretaker of the local piss corner.
Or maybe, just maybe, they're watching what happens in training and deciding that there are no better options.
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If there are no better options in training then that is a scary thought.
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I can picture Black and K Mac sitting around a pub table in a few years time and one of them saying " D'ya remember when we really fucked up the Villa with our team selections when we were caretaker managers?" and the other nodding in agreement and grinning. Fuck the pair of them off asap. Treacherous bastards. Caretaker just about sums them up, caretaker of the local piss corner.
Or maybe, just maybe, they're watching what happens in training and deciding that there are no better options.
Right. The options are frighteningly poor - untested, lightweight reserve players, academy players who have gone nowhere, or bit-part players who always flatter to deceive when we play them.
The whole club needs a complete clear out, top to bottom.
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I can picture Black and K Mac sitting around a pub table in a few years time and one of them saying " D'ya remember when we really fucked up the Villa with our team selections when we were caretaker managers?" and the other nodding in agreement and grinning. Fuck the pair of them off asap. Treacherous bastards. Caretaker just about sums them up, caretaker of the local piss corner.
Or maybe, just maybe, they're watching what happens in training and deciding that there are no better options.
Perhaps sometimes, it is not just what you do on the training ground though. If you do not have the bottle for the intensity of matches, all the good work training is of no use.
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Hanlon's Razor - Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
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Hanlon's Razor - Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
Ruddock's Razor - Never pass an open Greggs
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Occam's Razor morelike. The principle that in explaining a thing no more assumptions should be made than are necessary.
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Razor Ramone - ay, chico.
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Razor Ruddock. Play him in goal, fuck all would get past.
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Get rid of Black immediately. A disgraceful team selection again today.
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Yep
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Get rid of Black immediately. A disgraceful team selection again today.
Yep, the gutless twat. Needs to be top of the people getting the chop list.
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Sweeny Todd's Razor. "Shall I polish you off sir?".
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Sweeny Todd's Razor. "Shall I polish you off sir?".
With Bacuna in the next chair
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His statement after the game was an utter embarrassment.
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I can picture Black and K Mac sitting around a pub table in a few years time and one of them saying " D'ya remember when we really fucked up the Villa with our team selections when we were caretaker managers?" and the other nodding in agreement and grinning. Fuck the pair of them off asap. Treacherous bastards. Caretaker just about sums them up, caretaker of the local piss corner.
Or maybe, just maybe, they're watching what happens in training and deciding that there are no better options.
Right. The options are frighteningly poor - untested, lightweight reserve players, academy players who have gone nowhere, or bit-part players who always flatter to deceive when we play them.
The whole club needs a complete clear out, top to bottom.
As I mentioned earlier, a lot of alternatives/young players are out on loan - Steer, Baker, Bennett, Crespo, Gardner, Robinson.
It would have been nice to give a couple of them a try out - especially Steer and Gardner.
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Eric Cack, bag of shit, do one you fucking loser.
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Huddersfield fans really rate Steer. Guzan won't survive the cull, and Steer's had regular competitive football at a lower level, like Hart and Butland. He may never reach their level but he's at least got to be our backup next season.
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Next week Eric, stick to your guns.
Play the c**** like Lescott, Bacuna and Richards - it would be good for them to hear what everyone thinks of them.
You've refused to change the side, don't change it next week and let these parasites escape what's due to them.
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Eric Cack, bag of shit, do one you fucking loser.
Thanks for that, AJ. I just wish I hadn't got a mouthful of Tea when I read your comment(s)!
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The players have been fantastic since you arrived have they Eric? See I thought we'd lost every game in that time. Oh and you thought we could have got a draw today? Excellent well maybe you should have realised that would be as much use as Gabby fucking Agbonlahor.
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Put Little in charge for the remaining games please. No plan A let alone B today
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We were 'outstanding' today, apparantly.
The sooner he finds his next caretakers job, the better.
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We were 'outstanding' today, apparantly.
The sooner he finds his next caretakers job, the better.
Indeed.
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Next home game we need to boo pretty much every shower of shit player out of their bloody skins. If he plays those disgraceful cretins again we need to make it as clear as can be (if it's not already) that the likes of Bacuna should never, ever play for this great club again.
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Journeyman, nobody, mimicking who must be his boring Idol Lambert.
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Thanks for nothing Eric. You had a job that most fans sympathized with you over. Just give us a bit of fight and dignity as we go down. Couldn't manage even that though.
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Thing is he can say all he wants in the week, but when you put out a starting line up like that and say what he said after the game then you're a fucking idiot.
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We were 'outstanding' today, apparantly.
The sooner he finds his next caretakers job, the better.
Must have been talking about the fans today who were worthy of supporting a European Cup winners not a bunch of Sunday pub players who by and large can't be arsed.
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All managers everywhere are just a bunch of no nothing tosspotts
and that's the top and bottom of it
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He had a free hit no pressure no expectations, he gives us that line up words really do escape me.
Except for nobber.
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Most managers are failures as only a few can win trophies. There are only c12 or so great managers over the last 50 years in English football. But like players the average managers get labelled legends. We have had 2 , Ron and SGT. They don't grow on trees.
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Caretaker, I would not put the idiot in charge of a broom cupboard.
Another useless twat.
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I saw the team sheet and groaned and the lack of movement off the bench at 1-0 and relegated anyway was just baffling.
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Surprised by the anti-Black vitriol. He's started outing a few that need outing at long last. Gabby for example.
Personally, id still play these fuckers every game till seasons end, let them take the abuse they deserve and not start their holidays early which is I'm sure what many would prefer to be really doing.
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I hope, I really do, that he has made limited changes as he does not want the younger players (future of our great club) to deal with the emotional mess that is relegaion.
However, it may just be that he has n balls and doesn't want to rock the boat.
I hope the former but suspect the latter.
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You are right SV he does not want to rock the boat but the boat he does not want to rock is his own. He has had a nice comfortable career earning about five times as much as a nurse or a teacher for doing virtually nothing. He wants to protect his nice little earner and be able to move to another back room cushy number until he retires. He is working from some virtual How To Manage Football Team Manual and parroting footballspeak he has picked up here and there along the way. He is like a self taught pub pianist playing Chopin.
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Dragging Lyden off at half time, then having him sit in with the fans and not in the dug-out, would indicate that isn't the plan.
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Agreed LV, treatment of Lyden was poor. Should have taken off someone else and given him 90.
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Thinking its only the players who the fans love to hate playing up is naive in the extreme. I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of those not selected don't fancy being here next season at all. End of the day, Black is just picking up the mess while we're in limbo. He's not getting the job, he knows he's not getting the job, he hasn't got the authority to change anything like publicly calling out the players because the new guy may want/have to work with them. Aiming brickbats at someone with little or no control over our future seems a bit pointless
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You are right SV he does not want to rock the boat but the boat he does not want to rock is his own. He has had a nice comfortable career earning about five times as much as a nurse or a teacher for doing virtually nothing. He wants to protect his nice little earner and be able to move to another back room cushy number until he retires. He is working from some virtual How To Manage Football Team Manual and parroting footballspeak he has picked up here and there along the way. He is like a self taught pub pianist playing Chopin.
Disagree, if Black just wanted a cushy life, why did he tell the world Gabby wasn't fit enough to play team first football and banished him from the squad? Surely he wouldn't have done if he didn't want to rock the boat.
The bottom line is someone has to manage these c*^%# and I'd play them every second of every game to let the fans feelings be known and/or hopefully get some offers on a few.
I honestly woud'nt let the kids have any part of this shambles of a season. These wankers can take their medicine now.
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Aye he's just doing an unpleasant job temporarily. He won't be here in a month so what do people expect? Banish 20 players to the reserves when they'll be re-instated 5 minutes after he picks up his P45? I'm sure the players will be shitting themselves
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In all honesty I wish we had just played the kids.
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I hope he goes now because his post match comments about not having any reason to change the team because their performance was so good made my skin crawl. If he can't understand that with the club dead and buried, the fans just want some fun again then he is ridiculously blind. We will see the same XI next week so don't get your hopes up about Grealish, Adama, Green or even fricking Okore.
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I remember how much blackburn fans hated their football 2012-2014 and got relegated . I think Black was assistant then .
to see Bacuna ( wants to play for athletico Madrid probably ) ,Westwood ( great at pointing ) and Richardson ( out of contract ) in midfield. I think whats the point in that and him. .
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I remember how much blackburn fans hated their football 2012-2014 and got relegated . I think Black was assistant then .
to see Bacuna ( wants to play for athletico Madrid probably ) ,Westwood ( great at pointing ) and Richardson ( out of contract ) in midfield. I think whats the point in that and him. .
I saw Westwood point yesterday. I thought it was just a myth but he did.
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I remember how much blackburn fans hated their football 2012-2014 and got relegated . I think Black was assistant then .
to see Bacuna ( wants to play for athletico Madrid probably ) ,Westwood ( great at pointing ) and Richardson ( out of contract ) in midfield. I think whats the point in that and him. .
I saw Westwood point yesterday. I thought it was just a myth but he did.
I actually saw Richardson did
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He's in a position where he's not gonna improve his reputation or chances of another job after Villa based on results that's for sure, so the other side of managing the football club he seems to be doing ok(ish) although I'd like to Villa to say where are Traore and Veretout...
Regarding the shower of shite team he is picking I have to look at as this: these people playing are the ones we want shot of so consequentially we have to play them as if we put them on the bench or drop them then one guarantee is they will be stuck with us next year. So we have to improve our chances, however slight they are, of some foolish team buying one of these asshole wanker 'player' that we own
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Nobody was expecting him to come and be the next Pep Guardiola, but his perforamnces both in terms of picking the team and his spoken comments have been worse than dismal.
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I think that's harsh, he's not an experienced manager and has come into a pit of vipers. When we apportion blame for this mess Blacks name should not be anywhere near the top of the list.
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Well he called out Gabby for being the fat, lazy tosser than we suspected he was and suggested that the players weren't giving anything back to the fans. He's playing players we want shot of and protecting the kids.
All that's fine by me so not sure where all this aggression comes from, he's only been here 8 weeks. He's done pretty much exactly what I would have done.
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I think that's harsh, he's not an experienced manager and has come into a pit of vipers. When we apportion blame for this mess Blacks name should not be anywhere near the top of the list.
Infact he shouldn't even be on the list. Here's my shame top 10 as to why we are where we are today and who's most culpable;
1) Lerner
2) Lambert
3) Fox
4) Gabby/Micah
5) Faulkner
6) Sherwood
7) MON
8) Reilly/Almstadt
9) Karsa/ Culverhouse
10) McLeish
11) Manchester City
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Well he called out Gabby for being the fat, lazy tosser than we suspected he was and suggested that the players weren't giving anything back to the fans. He's playing players we want shot of and protecting the kids.
All that's fine by me so not sure where all this aggression comes from, he's only been here 8 weeks. He's done pretty much exactly what I would have done.
Why's he playing Kieran Richardson? His contract is up this summer.
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I just don't get what these people see. I mean how hard is it to pick the team below:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Gana Veretout
Traore Grealish Ayew
Gestede
You could maybe take Gestede out and put Ayew up front or start Sinclair ahead of Traore, but let's at least have a go.
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Well he called out Gabby for being the fat, lazy tosser than we suspected he was and suggested that the players weren't giving anything back to the fans. He's playing players we want shot of and protecting the kids.
All that's fine by me so not sure where all this aggression comes from, he's only been here 8 weeks. He's done pretty much exactly what I would have done.
Why's he playing Kieran Richardson? His contract is up this summer.
Thank fuck for that
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yeah richardsons contracts up, but what about all the other useless tossers and its going to take the greatest sales man in the world to move that lot on!
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yeah richardsons contracts up, but what about all the other useless tossers and its going to take the greatest sales man in the world to move that lot on!
Del boy is coming out of retirement to sort it out
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I think you will find that as we still, until yesterday, had a chance of survival. He will naturally pick his most mature side to basically avoid another belting.
Coaches coach. Managers manage. Why would a coach (Black) throw kids in and take a 6-0 drubbing at Old Trafford.
It makes no logic.
As a supporter from 1968 I have to say these are the biggest bag of shit I have ever seen at Villa Park.
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I think you will find that as we still, until yesterday, had a chance of survival. He will naturally pick his most mature side to basically avoid another belting.
Coaches coach. Managers manage. Why would a coach (Black) throw kids in and take a 6-0 drubbing at Old Trafford.
It makes no logic.
As a supporter from 1968 I have to say these are the biggest bag of shit I have ever seen at Villa Park.
Only if we actually won games as well. As for Old Trafford, when is the last time they beat anyone 6-0 there?
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yeah richardsons contracts up, but what about all the other useless tossers and its going to take the greatest sales man in the world to move that lot on!
Del boy is coming out of retirement to sort it out
Buy Westwood get Guzan, Richardson and Bacuna free. Fill a car in fact.
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I just don't get what these people see. I mean how hard is it to pick the team below:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Gana Veretout
Traore Grealish Ayew
Gestede
You could maybe take Gestede out and put Ayew up front or start Sinclair ahead of Traore, but let's at least have a go.
And that team would have got a result? Just seems another shuffle of the chairs on titanic to me. None of those have covered themselves with glory this season or shown anything to suggest they would have got anything at OT. The defence is error prone and lacking confidence, you could walk through that midfield because you have no-one who can win the ball and keep it, and the attack has the grand total of 4 goals in 34 games between them. Apart from that i agree its one of our better line-ups
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I agree Tom. That team might lose but there is at least the hope of being entertained by it. The teams Black puts out are excruciatingly negative.
The biggest problem facing the club, far bigger than money, or the new manager or new players or old players' contracts is the damage that has been done to the bedrock support of the club. In seventy plus years on the Holte, I have never seen the fans so angry. That is not going to go away overnight. The damage done over the last six years strikes right to the he foundations of the club. Naming a team not to lose by too much regardless of the effect the selected team has on the morale of the supporters is sheer folly.
Giving younger, less hated players a chance in the team is not rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, it is telling the helmsman not to turn about and ram the iceberg again.
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You cannot and should not throw academy youngsters in to this shit situation. We are relegated, we'll have a new manager soon, there is zero point throwing in kids now. To prove what to who - it's a hiding to nothing, totally unfair on them and let's the senior 'pros' off the hook.
No, let the wankers responsible earn (no laughing at the back) their money and let them take the abuse they so richly (pardon the pun) deserve for the remaining games.
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I agree Tom. That team might lose but there is at least the hope of being entertained by it. The teams Black puts out are excruciatingly negative.
The biggest problem facing the club, far bigger than money, or the new manager or new players or old players' contracts is the damage that has been done to the bedrock support of the club. In seventy plus years on the Holte, I have never seen the fans so angry. That is not going to go away overnight. The damage done over the last six years strikes right to the he foundations of the club. Naming a team not to lose by too much regardless of the effect the selected team has on the morale of the supporters is sheer folly.
Giving younger, less hated players a chance in the team is not rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, it is telling the helmsman not to turn about and ram the iceberg again.
I can see the logic of playing the more creative attacking players Brian. The trouble is they're also the ones that go missing and fade totally out of games. Even Garde criticised Traore for thinking he was messi and not working for the team. I think that team above would have lost by more than the one Black put out. Not that it really matters. Above all that line-up shows we went into this season totally missing players in key positions, a dominant midfielder being the most glaring omission. That's what i meant by shuffling the chairs on the Titanic. Any combination of Gana, Vertout, Westwood etc., is going to be found out without the right player or players in the middle with them,
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Points taken all round but I still make the point that if the future is to be any better than the past, the set ups for the games have to at least engage with the fans hopes. They are playing for us, not Sky.
I am a great believer in judging the big picture by studying the facts you have, not the pundits, not the media, not the big gob in the bar or the BBC pisstaker. When this season started there were most times four Greens in a row in the Holte Lower. Damon Green, Lucas Green, Toby Green and Brian Green. Since January there has only been me. Lucas and Damon were with me at Old Trafford in 87 when we sang We want Ellis Out, Down With The Villa, and We'll Be Back In 88. They don't come any more. Lads who sat on my shoulders and on the crush barriers from the age of 5. Why don't they come? Not because we lose all the time. Because it is all so horrible to watch, so negative and so boring. I truly do not care what others say about him, we all loved Adama Traore in our family. He is an exciting, thrilling player to watch who lifts the crowd. Oh, we can't have that sort of thing. He is selfish, just wants to run towards the goal, doesn't make any goal line clearances. They said the same about Peter McParland. Better play Richardson. Sends out the right message.
Turning to young players nobody is suggesting "throwing them in". They deserve their chance. If they do well it will do them good. If they struggle limit their game time. What you most certainly don't do is what Sherwood did to Traore against Notts County. Leave him on to get systematically hacked down until he was seriously injured.
When Joe Mercer took over we were bottom of the table and he brought in young players and they did not let him, the club, us or themselves down. I clearly recall John Sleuwenhoek's first appearance. Skinny, gangly, spotty faced youth with a mop of hair that looked like it had never been combed. What a tough, rugged and effective centre half he became. The supporters need to have heroes on the pitch. There is nothing more heroic than a boy growing into a man before your eyes.
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I just don't get what these people see. I mean how hard is it to pick the team below:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Gana Veretout
Traore Grealish Ayew
Gestede
You could maybe take Gestede out and put Ayew up front or start Sinclair ahead of Traore, but let's at least have a go.
That is unbalanced. You expect Gana to hold the midfield together and protect the back four? No chance. Sanchez in for Veretout would help
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You cannot and should not throw academy youngsters in to this shit situation. We are relegated, we'll have a new manager soon, there is zero point throwing in kids now. To prove what to who - it's a hiding to nothing, totally unfair on them and let's the senior 'pros' off the hook.
No, let the wankers responsible earn (no laughing at the back) their money and let them take the abuse they so richly (pardon the pun) deserve for the remaining games.
I agree. Throw kids in to suffer the humiliation of relegation? Let the fuckers who got us here take that honour. Now it's allover maybe filter a few kids in over the next few weeks now the pressure is off.
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A few weeks ago I posted on here that I wanted our ‘senior’ players dropped, but having had time to consider this view I now take it all back. I want Flabby brought back from fat camp, N’Zog brought back from whatever beach he’s been planted his tasteless designer shorts on and Lescott, Richards, Bacuna and Richarson and the aforementioned wasters to play every single minute until the rest of this season.
I want them to listen to the crowd and perhaps somewhere during the last few games, something will trigger in their egotistical narcissistic minds, that contrary to what their agent is telling them, they are not the bees-knees and indeed their attitude has contributed to the relegation of a great institution. Perhaps, perhaps if they have an epiphany we may get a heartfelt apology from them and some degree of humility, instead of platitudes and more Instagram photos of them guzzling Cristal.
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I just don't get what these people see. I mean how hard is it to pick the team below:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Gana Veretout
Traore Grealish Ayew
Gestede
You could maybe take Gestede out and put Ayew up front or start Sinclair ahead of Traore, but let's at least have a go.
That is unbalanced. You expect Gana to hold the midfield together and protect the back four? No chance. Sanchez in for Veretout would help
F*ck me Sanchez - I'd forgotten he was even here!! How an international destroyer capable of marking Messi out of the game can't get a game in this pile of shite is mind boggling.
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Quotes from Black (in the Guardian) are beyond belief.
There is no point standing here and criticising. That’s done, it’s over; we should be looking to rebuild and if that can start on Monday morning then great, because this is a fantastic football club. There is nobody who would deny that.
Yes, there is a point criticising. Those wasters on the pitch need telling that they need to take responsibility for their not-even-half-arsed couldn't be bothered displays.
I am sure whoever takes over will ensure that work ethic carries on and if we can get the right squad together then we can bounce straight back.
What!!?? What 'work ethic'? What planet is this bloke on?
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Indeed, if the current work ethic carries on we might as well turn the lights off.
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I just don't get what these people see. I mean how hard is it to pick the team below:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Gana Veretout
Traore Grealish Ayew
Gestede
You could maybe take Gestede out and put Ayew up front or start Sinclair ahead of Traore, but let's at least have a go.
I can only think that the Villa now has a strategy to protect the psyche of some of these players for next season. Whilst leaving the group who got us in this mess, to pick up the pieces for the rest of the season, before being bombed out.
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I just don't get what these people see. I mean how hard is it to pick the team below:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Gana Veretout
Traore Grealish Ayew
Gestede
You could maybe take Gestede out and put Ayew up front or start Sinclair ahead of Traore, but let's at least have a go.
I can only think that the Villa now has a strategy to protect the psyche of some of these players for next season. Whilst leaving the group who got us in this mess, to pick up the pieces for the rest of the season, before being bombed out.
I agree and what's more I totally support it, if it's true.
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Having watched his team selection and team style on saturday, he guy a completely useless tool
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I don't get the criticism of Black and think he's doing as well as can be expected. We aren't good enough to go out and attack looking to win. He's trying to be more solid and use that as a springboard to nick a result. The crowd would turn on the team even further and heap more bile if we went for it and had more 4s and 6s shipped passed us. The way to do that is use the experienced players and try and plug the many holes in the boat. Relegation or not the re needs to be solidified and tightened again. To that respect the job he has is huge. No time for kids, if indeed we have (m)any ready and no point in gung ho.
Started again means doing things properly not trying to lose 7-2. I think Black is doing it right so far in terms of the longer term and next season.
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Has fallen out with Okore and dropped him from the 1st team squad 🙈🙈
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I don't particularly have a problem with Black. Lashing out at him seems to be like blaming the funeral arranger if a beloved relative dies.
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I don't particularly have a problem with Black. Lashing out at him seems to be like blaming the funeral arranger if a beloved relative dies.
he comes across very well, very professional. He's just trying to do his job - but most people just don't want to see 75% of the squad playing! No win.
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I think people see the same fuckwits play and not deliver every week and long for some change. What is the point of having a pool of players and never giving them the opportunity to test themselves? I know it's been said time and time again but have we no alternative to Bacuna, Westwood et al?
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Black is doing a thankless task with a useless bunch of players - it would have been hard enough managing a team that has only won 3 games all season without having to deal with the likes of Lescott, Agbonlahor and now it seems Okore making his job even more difficult
Ideally he will bring in Grealish, Green and/or Traore at the weekend to try and appease the fans but it really is a futile exercise
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Well, 11 of the 16 points achieved have been with Okore on the team (12 games) - yet Lescot has more leverage?
Black can do one - the last 2 teams he picked have been offensive to the eye - dropping Okore for him saying he believes he should have a chance? Yeah - punish a player that wants to play to prove he can do a better job - much worse than Richards, Bacuna, Lescot & Gabby
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Well, 11 of the 16 points achieved have been with Okore on the team (12 games) - yet Lescot has more leverage?
Black can do one - the last 2 teams he picked have been offensive to the eye - dropping Okore for him saying he believes he should have a chance? Yeah - punish a player that wants to play to prove he can do a better job - much worse than Richards, Bacuna, Lescot & Gabby
Actually I'm glad he picked the team he did on Saturday. Why bring the kids in to suffer the final relegation blow - that's hardly fair on them. Let the fuckers who got us into this position enjoy that. I would like to see him start introducing the kids more in the next few weeks though.
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Whilst I am sure that there is two sides to the Okore story, anyone who picks Kieran Richardson and Leandro Bacuna despite knowing that the fans have an intense dislike for them is a complete plank. The sooner the season ends and we can start moving people on, the better. Black included.
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Anything good he says midweek is completely destroyed every time he puts out a starting line up.
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I get the feeling that he is thinking that he is not part of the future, so why think about the future.
He also follows the stereotype of most of the British managers that played the game more than 10 years ago that you have to play experienced players and a group young players in the team cannot cope.
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Total clown, Paul Lambert in disguise. Please black bag him and chuck him in the canal, useless man.
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The under 21's are having a good season aren't they, why not throw a few of them in. Surely they are playing with confidence so a first start in place of these useless tossers I.e Lescott/richards/Bacuna can only enhance them and also give the fans a chance to see what the next generation have to offer.
I would try Adama and Grealish down the wings with Gestede and Ayew up front then have a central two of Gana and Sanchez. Would give width pace and height up front too.
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The under 21's are having a good season aren't they, why not throw a few of them in. Surely they are playing with confidence so a first start in place of these useless tossers I.e Lescott/richards/Bacuna can only enhance them and also give the fans a chance to see what the next generation have to offer.
I would try Adama and Grealish down the wings with Gestede and Ayew up front then have a central two of Gana and Sanchez. Would give width pace and height up front too.
They are in the 2nd Tier already
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The man is not even pretending to do his job. Is Tony Parks still around? Give him the job while we look. At least he doesnt openly hate the club.
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He undermines everything he says by his dull and frankly embarrassing starting line ups.
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“We conceded poor goals that put us on the back foot. There was a response, and credit for that, but on the day it wasn’t enough.''
I'm sorry Eric no credit for that, we just conceded four at home.
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Get rid of Black fast! The team look even worse under him if that's possible. Taking off Ayew today? The guy is useless! "You don't know what your doing"
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The man is not even pretending to do his job. Is Tony Parks still around? Give him the job while we look. At least he doesnt openly hate the club.
Yep, parkes can tell some more fans to fcuk off then. The weasel.
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He's doing an awful job, even in the circumstances.
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Black: Just do one!!
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Koeman spoke better about Aston Villa than Eric Black did.
I fucking despair with EB, what the hell does he expect?
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turn the light s off Eric
useless line up
Lescott ? Guzan ? Richards? Bacuna ?
why have you not give the youngsters a go and maybe Adama .
you are just Kevin Mac in disguise
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The side he picked today set the tone for the toxic atmosphere. I have never witnessed 8 of the starting line up booed when announced and that is down to Black. He knows full well how the crowd will react but carries on regardless. We now have Okore apparently on strike, Adama saying he is being made to feel worthless. Today's subbing of Ayew when he had created the first goal, when everyone could see it should have been Sinclair was as alarming as it was incredible. Every game that passes is an opportunity lost to see if the youngsters can hack it. If Black had started Toner instead of Lescott and Gestede instead of Sinclair the vitriol would have been reduced but for some reason known only to himself he persists with a team that keeps getting beaten.
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Great..with all the problems we are currently facing, we now seem to have inherited a caretaker manager who fancies himself as a bit of a smart arse! To be fair I have only 28 years experience of watching football so I bow to his superior knowledge.Prick.
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The nightmare is that the clowns in charge at the top could easily give him the job full time just to save a few bob on getting a proper manager in.
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He undermines everything he says by his dull and frankly embarrassing starting line ups.
I could forgive him a dubious starting line up as who knows what he sees during the week in training.
But when you've witnessed the total shambles that was Leandro Bacuna and Joleon Lescott today and leaves them both on the pitch for the whole 90 minutes all benefit of the doubt is lost!
Awful - we need a proper, actual manager in pronto!
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The nightmare is that the clowns in charge at the top could easily give him the job full time just to save a few bob on getting a proper manager in.
Dont even joke man. Bloody hell thats a nightmare scenario.
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No joke, I honestly believe it could happen.
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Now you say it so do I. Christ. I am not sure what I would do if that happened. It would be beyond surrender to deliberate malice on the boards part.
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He's said he doesn't want it. Wants a holiday apparently
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I'd prefer Nigel Pearson and I think i've made it plain my thoughts on him! Black has been put into a real shite situation, but he's making a right pig's ear of what should have been a no lose scenario for him.
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Black as permanent manager would be a perfect fit for those like me who think the club has been sabotaged.
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Black as permanent manager would be a perfect fit for those like me who think the club has been sabotaged.
Don't even joke about it, please
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Black as permanent manager would be a perfect fit for those like me who think the club has been sabotaged.
Ordinarily I'd say such a conspiracy theory is madness, but his substitutions today make me think he was deliberately trying to lose!
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Wholeheartedly disagree with just about everything being said. i think one of the only people coming through this period with any credit is Eric Black. First of all his team selections. Given the players at his disposal there is very little options he has. Also, he probably knows which players will be here next season and those that want to go. Seeing as Adama may be one of those not going to be here next season, why play him? for me Black is trying to stabilise the team before we go down. we need to have a team that finishes the season that finishes the season to have more of a togetherness for the new manager to come in and mould. We simply can't start the season with 11 new players so need to stabilise with players that we are going to need at the start of next season. That is likely to be the likes of Hutton, Clark, Westwood, Grealish, maybe Amavi, with question marks over Sanchez, Gestede, Sinclair, and even Bacuna.
We're not going to be able to shift 15 and buy 15 and expect to hit the ground running. We need a base. black recognises this and in all honesty there may not be as much surgery needed as is probably thought at first. Guzan is good enough for the Championship but maybe its time to move him on. At least one Steve Sims type stopper is needed. A couple of midfielders, one wide man and two forwards. Witha solid base that could be enough to not only stabilise us but keep us upward looking.
it would be total folly not to say remiss of Black, to just throw kids in now and not play players we may need to rely on next season. The players we don't want around the place - Gabby, Richardson (out of contract?), Richards, Lescott, Okores - need to be jettisoned and the ones we are either likely to move on or will want to move on - Cissokho, Gil, Veretout, Gana, Ayew, Adama aren't really important now and the odd one or two may be needed until the end of the season. Lescott for instance.
But I think Black is doing a great job in what is probably the worst environment he has probably ever worked in. When we get this if not right, at least calmed down and stable, I hope his input will be recognised. I think he deserves our support for what he's trying to do for us for next season. If we do well next season I think the work he is trying to do now will go and long way towards that.
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You mention Richards, Ricardson and Lescott as players we don't want etc and yet he keeps picking them, if he's looking to the future why has he been picking Richardson who is out of contract in the summer. And then you say we only need a bit of tinkering simply can't start next season with 11 new players and then name 11 players that are unlikely to be here next season. 12 if we include Guzan.
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By whatever standards you care to use, there is no way on earth that Black could be described as doung a great job. He's not even barely competent.
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He keeps picking certain players because at the moment he has very little choice. He can't just drop everyone that he would like to and put kids in because a) they may not be ready for it and b) given the atmosphere around our games and the lack of confidence running through the team, it is more counter-productive.
All season we've managed 16 points from 2 different managers. One of whom was lauded by many on here. Given the same resources but a less motivated team what realistically are you expecting from him?
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He keeps picking certain players because at the moment he has very little choice. He can't just drop everyone that he would like to and put kids in because a) they may not be ready for it and b) given the atmosphere around our games and the lack of confidence running through the team, it is more counter-productive.
And yet he felt fit to pick one of the kids for the bench and bring him on at half time whilst he let Lescott and Bacuna continue to fuck around gifting goals away for the full 90.
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Your arguement makes as much sense as Blacks team selections. He's picking the players that will be here next season, like Lescott, Richardson, Richards.....
Doing a great job in what sense? We are still losing, we are still getting hammered, players still aren't trying and the fans couldn't give a fuck anymore.
You quite honestly could put a potato in a training jacket on the sidelines and it would have as much effect on Aston Villa as Black has had. Right now he's as pointless as we are.
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He keeps picking players he knows we hate. Therefore is helping to create the toxic atmosphere. Why not pick Grealish ahead of Bacuna? Black is doing us a favour by agreeing to manage this shower of shit but isn't helping the situation really.
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He has choice. Today he could have played Grealish and Traore or wide to create things but chose Sinclair and Bacuna. He could have played Toner from the start or given Lyden a run in midfield. He picked a tan he knew were going to be roundly booed and without any clear plan then removed the best attacking that we had. The man is a buffoon.
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He doesn't need to drop all 11, but every single one of us knows that as soon as any of Guzan, Richards, Lescott and Bacuna take to the field they are going to get stick. So by picking them all Black is creating negativity before a ball has even been (badly) kicked. I really don't see how it is of any benefit, long or short term, to pick them. Well apart from it being cathartic for fans to rip into them. Any U21 players playing today instead of those 4 wouldn't have got pelters, and I doubt we'd have done worse than conceding 4 at home to sodding Southampton like we did any way. We've lost 10 in a row, nothing is any calmer or more stable since he took over imo.
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He keeps picking certain players because at the moment he has very little choice. He can't just drop everyone that he would like to and put kids in because a) they may not be ready for it and b) given the atmosphere around our games and the lack of confidence running through the team, it is more counter-productive.
All season we've managed 16 points from 2 different managers. One of whom was lauded by many on here. Given the same resources but a less motivated team what realistically are you expecting from him?
He certainly has a bit of choice when he leaves Grealish on the bench. Even Gestede tbh, and I am not a big fan but at least he can cause a few problems. What about the likes of Lyden, if as you say he is planning for the future, give them a chance and maybe us a little bit of hope. Personally I think Black is clueless
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Martin Keown digging people out for their lack of collective defending on MOTD. Absolutely right to question what they work on in training. Pathetic all round. Lazy, shambolic, unprofessional wasters.
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Cant do with him anymore, he gave Sammy Lee a cuddle after the game, Sammy Fkn Lee
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He's said he doesn't want it. Wants a holiday apparently
That hasn't stopped Agbonlahor, Richards, Bacuna, Lescott and Guzan claiming first team wages all c***ng season long.
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Sorry PW completely disagree, he is making a shit storm of it. If he put in a team made up of the few first teamers still with credit and the youngsters/b team the fans would be behind them 100% regardless of result. The atmosphere would change, heads would rise and foundations would be laid for next season. U talk about no choice but would this line up have done that much worse today;
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clarke Toner
Lyden Westwood Gueye Grealish
Ayew Green
Subs Gestede Traore Veretout and a few from the academy
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Said before the game all of the bench should have been starting.The under 21's have a play off final against Swansea on Monday but surely he must have realised that Lescott , Bacuna , Richards ( absolute disgrace) and Guzan were going to get the massive stick they got!
Can we please have a manager asap who has half a clue before we melt down completely and slide straight through the Championship into League One?
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Sorry PW completely disagree, he is making a shit storm of it. If he put in a team made up of the few first teamers still with credit and the youngsters/b team the fans would be behind them 100% regardless of result. The atmosphere would change, heads would rise and foundations would be laid for next season. U talk about no choice but would this line up have done that much worse today;
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clarke Toner
Lyden Westwood Gueye Grealish
Ayew Green
Subs Gestede Traore Veretout and a few from the academy
Good post. Pretty interesting line up as well.
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"I understand the fans’ frustrations and they have ideas on what team they want to see but I can’t be led down that road."
Why ??
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black is a cock, quote from his wm interview, "the fans have a right to there opinion, I've been in the game 35 years"
Arrogant knitwit, when he gets his P45 and moves on to Yeovil as Assistant chef, i pity their kitchen.
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I can't be lead towards giving the supporters some morsel of pleasure or entertainment for the huge sums of money they fork out for tickets and travel to see the team play. Heaven forbid.
I am the manager of Aston Villa, it is my duty to carry on the work if my predecessors. When I sit down to write the team sheet, I ask what would Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Kevin McDonald, Tim Sherwood, Ray Wilkins and Remi Garde do? I must not betray their heritage. It is a sacred trust and I will not let the supporters destroy that.
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He makes me want Pearson!
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As things stand, our reputation is more tarnished than Pearson's.
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I hope our next proper manager picks exactly the side the fans want otherwise he'll be getting dogs abuse after a month.
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Whilst I'd like to see the likes of Bacuna, Richards and Lescott removed from our club, why should a group of young inexperienced players get damaged and attempt to pick up the shit created by the these useless fuckers.
Black has been placed in a shit position, with a group of players who are disgrace, throwing some random youngsters in before they are ready would, in my opinion, be criminal. Making the fuckers who got us here suffer is the lesser evil.
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Wholeheartedly disagree with just about everything being said. i think one of the only people coming through this period with any credit is Eric Black. First of all his team selections. Given the players at his disposal there is very little options he has. Also, he probably knows which players will be here next season and those that want to go. Seeing as Adama may be one of those not going to be here next season, why play him? for me Black is trying to stabilise the team before we go down. we need to have a team that finishes the season that finishes the season to have more of a togetherness for the new manager to come in and mould. We simply can't start the season with 11 new players so need to stabilise with players that we are going to need at the start of next season. That is likely to be the likes of Hutton, Clark, Westwood, Grealish, maybe Amavi, with question marks over Sanchez, Gestede, Sinclair, and even Bacuna.
We're not going to be able to shift 15 and buy 15 and expect to hit the ground running. We need a base. black recognises this and in all honesty there may not be as much surgery needed as is probably thought at first. Guzan is good enough for the Championship but maybe its time to move him on. At least one Steve Sims type stopper is needed. A couple of midfielders, one wide man and two forwards. Witha solid base that could be enough to not only stabilise us but keep us upward looking.
it would be total folly not to say remiss of Black, to just throw kids in now and not play players we may need to rely on next season. The players we don't want around the place - Gabby, Richardson (out of contract?), Richards, Lescott, Okores - need to be jettisoned and the ones we are either likely to move on or will want to move on - Cissokho, Gil, Veretout, Gana, Ayew, Adama aren't really important now and the odd one or two may be needed until the end of the season. Lescott for instance.
But I think Black is doing a great job in what is probably the worst environment he has probably ever worked in. When we get this if not right, at least calmed down and stable, I hope his input will be recognised. I think he deserves our support for what he's trying to do for us for next season. If we do well next season I think the work he is trying to do now will go and long way towards that.
I agree mate.
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With respect, putting the young players into the team could do them a lot of good.
We, the long suffering bedrock of the club are being stereotyped as mouth foaming zombies hell bent on taking it out on the players. Nothing could be further from the truth but the manager and the players and the club have access to the lazy rent a quote media and the fans do not.
We, the supporters need the chance to show, Okore, Traore, Grealish, Lyden, Green, Toner and all the U21s that we are not booing them, we are booing Agbonlahor, Guzan, Lescott, Richards, Lerner, Fox, O'Neill, McLeish, Lambert, Karsa, Culverhouse, McDonald, Sherwood, Wilkins, Keane, Garde and all the roll call of incompetent buffoons who have got us into this desperate, potentially terminal situation.
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As a club, we do seem to have been very cautious to trust in youth over recent years, whilst other clubs regularly field 17/18 year olds with success.
I absolutely understand the need to not put them into situations that might expose them to too much pressure, but surely these last few games are the perfect opportunity to give them some valuable premiership experience while we still can, rather than allow the same old bloated, journeyman players go through the motions and further alienate the club from the fans?
I know very little about Black, and I understand the diabolical team he is trying to nurse through to the end of the season, but he quickly lost any good faith I might have had for him with his condescending remarks and spineless team selections.
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As much use as putting a potato in the dugout and calling it boss.
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Whilst I'd like to see the likes of Bacuna, Richards and Lescott removed from our club, why should a group of young inexperienced players get damaged and attempt to pick up the shit created by the these useless fuckers.
Black has been placed in a shit position, with a group of players who are disgrace, throwing some random youngsters in before they are ready would, in my opinion, be criminal. Making the fuckers who got us here suffer is the lesser evil.
I don't see that at all really. I think we have three free games left to give them valuable game experience. And as much as I'd like some of the cretins we have to be put on display to be booed to buggery and back, at the same time it still pains me to see a useless arse like Bacuna playing every game.
Just for a bit of goodwill I think he's got to drop the players who quite clearly, the Villa fans detest. We know who they are. The club know who they are. The players themselves know it by now. The press knows it. Lets at least try and enjoy the last home game and see some of the kids playing.
There seems to be some misconception, perhaps even from Black himself too, that there's no goodwill left with the Villa fans. That's not true. There's only a select minority that make our piss boil because their behaviour and/or professionalism this season. If we put the U-21's out, they'd get a very good reaction. We need to build for the future. Guzan, Lescott, Richards, Bacuna and Gabby for starters need to be the first names out. They're the rotten core. You start with them as there's no way back for them. If they don't play again this season the vitriol halves already.
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As much use as putting a potato in the dugout and calling it boss.
Next season we might get the actual potato
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As a club, we do seem to have been very cautious to trust in youth over recent years, whilst other clubs regularly field 17/18 year olds with success.
I absolutely understand the need to not put them into situations that might expose them to too much pressure, but surely these last few games are the perfect opportunity to give them some valuable premiership experience while we still can, rather than allow the same old bloated, journeyman players go through the motions and further alienate the club from the fans?
I know very little about Black, and I understand the diabolical team he is trying to nurse through to the end of the season, but he quickly lost any good faith I might have had for him with his condescending remarks and spineless team selections.
It pains me seeing Rashford and that lad at City who's scored about a million goals against us this season. Everton have always chucked their good youngsters in too.
We have one of the most productive academy's. I don't buy that we can't produce better than Westwood, Bacuna, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla, etc, etc. I think we've wasted good money on signing players (regardless of them being "cheap") when we probably had potentially better in our youth set up. Johnson, Bannan and Albrighton are thriving at other clubs now. Some we gave up on too soon. Some we let their places go to inferior players (Cahill for one).
Lyden has looked okay. Green looked lively when he appeared. There's a group of players who seem to stand out most weeks for the u-21's. We've spent good money on this academy. We have a group now we need to bring through, if anything to put them in the shop window because with relegation I'd imagine we'll cut costs on the academy and the standard of player will drop even further. But we must be, at the very least, bringing up players who could play in the championship.
PLAY THEM!!
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Sorry PW completely disagree, he is making a shit storm of it. If he put in a team made up of the few first teamers still with credit and the youngsters/b team the fans would be behind them 100% regardless of result. The atmosphere would change, heads would rise and foundations would be laid for next season. U talk about no choice but would this line up have done that much worse today;
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clarke Toner
Lyden Westwood Gueye Grealish
Ayew Green
Subs Gestede Traore Veretout and a few from the academy
So you'd have Bunn who hasn't shown he's much cop and despite his completely fallen stock with many Guzan has been okay ish recently. Clark was injured apparently, Toner is a kid who you'd introduce into a volatile atmosphere out of position, Okore has said he won't play, Lydein isn't a wide midfielder - I think - so you'd open him to scorn when yet another cross isn't successful or a run isn't made. Grealish for all his promise is coming off a very poor season and some injuries. Green is an interesting one but Black thought it best not to blood him right now. I can't see other than fans wanting or believing Green is going to make that much of an impact why Black's call isn't the right one.
Just because we don't like many of our players we shouldn't be shoehorning kids in.
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It's not just Black's teams that concern me, but how much more damage is he doing behind the scenes? He's already burnt all our bridges with Okore.
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I just don't get the word "shoehorn".
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It's not just Black's teams that concern me, but how much more damage is he doing behind the scenes? He's already burnt all our bridges with Okore.
Okore has burnt his own bridge by refusing to play for the Villa.
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I would have liked him to put some of the kids in but at the same time I can see why he hasn't. For me, his biggest fault is that he's too cautious. Last week he left it until 7 minutes from time to put on a striker and yesterday when he did put one on, he took Ayew off. We're down now, what's the point in playing one up front?
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There's just no excuse in playing Bacuna when you can literally play anyone else. Play the fucking tea lady for all I care, that scrap of ordure should never appear in a Villa shirt ever again.
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playing a few of the youngsters might do them a bit of good, harden them up a bit
I honestly don't think that any Villa fans would blame them for out predicament and would openly support them as opposed to the constant booing of the established lads
It's a no lose situation for me, they get experience playing in a difficult atmosphere and the fans get to support players they actually like,
throwing youngsters in the deep end doesn't seem to have done that Rashford fella much harm, and the pressure would be greater in an man city v man Utd derby game, even the pundits said he shouldnt play too young they said, he won the game for them
He who dares wins, and that other thing the General used to say
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That was Derek Trotter not Charles Krulak. Easily confused I agree.
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As a club, we do seem to have been very cautious to trust in youth over recent years, whilst other clubs regularly field 17/18 year olds with success.
I absolutely understand the need to not put them into situations that might expose them to too much pressure, but surely these last few games are the perfect opportunity to give them some valuable premiership experience while we still can, rather than allow the same old bloated, journeyman players go through the motions and further alienate the club from the fans?
I know very little about Black, and I understand the diabolical team he is trying to nurse through to the end of the season, but he quickly lost any good faith I might have had for him with his condescending remarks and spineless team selections.
It pains me seeing Rashford and that lad at City who's scored about a million goals against us this season. Everton have always chucked their good youngsters in too.
We have one of the most productive academy's. I don't buy that we can't produce better than Westwood, Bacuna, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla, etc, etc. I think we've wasted good money on signing players (regardless of them being "cheap") when we probably had potentially better in our youth set up. Johnson, Bannan and Albrighton are thriving at other clubs now. Some we gave up on too soon. Some we let their places go to inferior players (Cahill for one).
Lyden has looked okay. Green looked lively when he appeared. There's a group of players who seem to stand out most weeks for the u-21's. We've spent good money on this academy. We have a group now we need to bring through, if anything to put them in the shop window because with relegation I'd imagine we'll cut costs on the academy and the standard of player will drop even further. But we must be, at the very least, bringing up players who could play in the championship.
PLAY THEM!!
It's a wholehearted agreement from me.
I'm baffled why Black won't play at least 1 younger player.
He is very successfully making sure that with his team selections he is and has sucked any hope of any positive energy being generated from the crowd.
He is responsible for putting out a bland, boring, negative and frankly embarrassing selection for yesterdays game (along with all of his other afforts at picking a side) which probably resulted one of the worst Villa performances I've ever seen.
I would have left out at least 6 players that have been an absolute disgrace and played members of the U21 set up whick appear, judging by this seasons results have what is known as team spirit. This is something which bar one or two exceptions, the first team evidently lacks.
I and I'm sure most fans would have taken a defeat even a heavy one because we might have seen a few chinks of light, a flash of ability or perhaps some organisation defensively.
But instead we witness people who have given up. Who are not interested and who clearly don't realise that they are privelidged enough to be playing for the team that I love.
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A couple of months working with our first team squad (yes apparently we have one) is enough to "romantically malnourish" any poor sod who had to manage such a bunch of under achieving individuals. In the words of the great Saint Brian "You are all individuals" - there certainly is not any team work going on.
If more youngsters were pitched in then the supporters would need to make a wall of positive noise and really get behind them, even if they make mistakes. Certainly against Newcastle we owe it to other teams in the Division to make a proper match of it and so pitching in all the youngsters is not really on (nor pitching in most of the current first team for that matter).
The Mangager will have to be" nourished" with shit sandwiches I am afraid (which is the Villa Park diet that we have all had to put up with for the last five years.
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what does he see in Bacuna - awful all year , mistake after mistake , cant tackle , cant control, cant pass , cant shoot , his positioning is terrible and then tells the media he wants to play in the chumps league as he thinks he is Johan Cruyff all of a sudden . This would make me want to never see his grinning face with his muppet haircut wearing an Villa shirt again but the ' BOSS' fooking joke , plays the clown .. and what a great back pass that was ...
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Jack black could pick a better team than Eric black
Not one supporter in vp yesterday or anywhere in the world would of picked that Team
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As much use as putting a potato in the dugout and calling it boss.
As long as it's a King Edwards. I rather have that than Stan Collymore. He's just a common 'tater.
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“That would be unprofessional of me and there would be no point in me being here if we just had a lottery and picked the team.
Fcuk sake. Unprofessional.
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I can understand Black's point about not letting the fans dictate who plays as you can see this from some of the line ups suggested on here. However, this is a generalisation and does not reflect the reality of the situation at the Villa now.
Results between now and the end of the season are pointless (and probably will be!) to us and I do not care less about being seen to put what looks to be a weaker team on paper. The reality is that whatever team we put out, the chances are we are going to lose.
Probably the most important thing for Villa, aside from a new owner, is rebuilding the bridge between supporters and the Club. The teams that Black is picking are pulling down that bridge more each week. The group of 5 or 6 players identified by most on here have to go for the sake of fan/club unity. I would go as far to say that this group of players is also undermining other players in the Club, to the point of making comments that they shouldn't be but understandable if you consider their frustration.
There have been comments that we do not have players to come in, So why doesn't Black change the formation from what looks on paper to be a basic 4-4-2 (apologies if this is not correct but I haven't watched the last few games) to make it easier to bring in the youngsters. Providing the young players are talked to in the week leading up to the games about going out and playing their own game and not letting the atmosphere get to them because it is not against them but against the Club in general, I think they will be fine. Even if we do not start all of them, the bench should be loaded and the kids brought on. If the manager and coaches cannot prepare them mentally for the games, what hope is there.
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Certainly playing the same useless duffers until the end of the season is not going to increase their value when it comes time to sell over the Summer.
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Well he can't be any worse. Impossible to lose another 8 games in a row
Erm...
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I can understand Black's point about not letting the fans dictate who plays as you can see this from some of the line ups suggested on here. However, this is a generalisation and does not reflect the reality of the situation at the Villa now.
Results between now and the end of the season are pointless (and probably will be!) to us and I do not care less about being seen to put what looks to be a weaker team on paper. The reality is that whatever team we put out, the chances are we are going to lose.
Probably the most important thing for Villa, aside from a new owner, is rebuilding the bridge between supporters and the Club. The teams that Black is picking are pulling down that bridge more each week. The group of 5 or 6 players identified by most on here have to go for the sake of fan/club unity. I would go as far to say that this group of players is also undermining other players in the Club, to the point of making comments that they shouldn't be but understandable if you consider their frustration.
There have been comments that we do not have players to come in, So why doesn't Black change the formation from what looks on paper to be a basic 4-4-2 (apologies if this is not correct but I haven't watched the last few games) to make it easier to bring in the youngsters. Providing the young players are talked to in the week leading up to the games about going out and playing their own game and not letting the atmosphere get to them because it is not against them but against the Club in general, I think they will be fine. Even if we do not start all of them, the bench should be loaded and the kids brought on. If the manager and coaches cannot prepare them mentally for the games, what hope is there.
Filling the bench with talented youngsters is a very good idea. It also would be fantastic to see players such as Bacuna, Lescott and Richards replaced by young and enthusiastic 18/19 year olds midway through the second half against Newcastle.
I think that they would find it justifiably embarrassing.
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I was pleased in a way that EB played the parasites yesterday and they got the abuse they royally deserved.
But for the Newcastle game, surely he could play the U21s? We would be fully behind them, and they would actually have a chance of competing in the game, which the current lot don't have.
Otherwise he plays the same side again, we lose, and Newcastle probably stay up and have a good laugh at us.
But then, EB knows best....
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So Eric knows best and the supporters know jack shit. Well how many points have you picked up so far this season Eric ? Nil...fuckin nil. So all I can think is that in your 35 years you have learnt bugger all. Cheers Eric you condescending twat.
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And another thing Eric...if ever you pick that bloody idiot Baccuna again you should receive a banning order from Villa park. That is the worst back pass I have seen at villa park since Brendon batson gifted Peter white a goal the year we won the league. Yes Eric we did win the league cause in those days we had proper managers and proper players. RANT OVER..I'm off to bed now and bollocks to all the idiots at villa park apart from the fans and some hard working staff who are going to join the dole queue because of the twat that have infested our once great club..ps Eric. ..you ain't on my Xmas card list.
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I don't get the hate and abuse for Black, we're down, we've been down for months and he isn't responsible. I'm all for the shower of shite that has got us in this mess playing the remaining matches and being held up for ridicule. The only thing he's not got right is not insisting the cowardly twat of a club captain turns up to face the music.
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Chris, in a way, you're right but I think the vitriol for Black is that he keeps picking the same old shit and hasn't addressed the poor play on the pitch. We seem as bad, if not worse, than ever.
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Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan or hoping he stays! He's been left with a bunch who have seen off two managers this season and don't look like they give a single toss about the club, Guardiola wouldn't get anything out of this rabble.
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Sorry PW completely disagree, he is making a shit storm of it. If he put in a team made up of the few first teamers still with credit and the youngsters/b team the fans would be behind them 100% regardless of result. The atmosphere would change, heads would rise and foundations would be laid for next season. U talk about no choice but would this line up have done that much worse today;
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clarke Toner
Lyden Westwood Gueye Grealish
Ayew Green
Subs Gestede Traore Veretout and a few from the academy
So you'd have Bunn who hasn't shown he's much cop and despite his completely fallen stock with many Guzan has been okay ish recently. Clark was injured apparently, Toner is a kid who you'd introduce into a volatile atmosphere out of position, Okore has said he won't play, Lydein isn't a wide midfielder - I think - so you'd open him to scorn when yet another cross isn't successful or a run isn't made. Grealish for all his promise is coming off a very poor season and some injuries. Green is an interesting one but Black thought it best not to blood him right now. I can't see other than fans wanting or believing Green is going to make that much of an impact why Black's call isn't the right one.
Just because we don't like many of our players we shouldn't be shoehorning kids in.
You are missing my point, play that team and I don't think the atmosphere would be volatile. The fans don't want to be booing their own team, it needs to stop and I think most people want it to. Playing that team would give the fans a side to get behind, it would feel like the start of the next era. Okore is in there because it is a falling out with black that means he is not playing (he also gives a different account to black). Lyden could play in a 3, jack and green either side of Ayew. My point is we are down. The team that went out have now (on the whole)lost 10 in a row, only a fool keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results.
I stand by my original line up- they would beat what we sent out on Saturday IMO (hypothetically of course)
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There I was going to bed as I have a 5.00 am start tomorrow. Yep I know he has inherited the shisters from hell but he hasn't changed a bloody thing. Just same old same old but what really pissed me off about him was that comment which basically said the supporters know fuck all. Well Eric I'm sorry but from a playing perspective I think you should give the fans a lot more credit. We can sometimes see things that the likes off you can't.
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I dont hate him Chris, I am however very upset at his constant surrender attitude. Its embarassing more than anything else. Every press conference he does it, the last game he trotted out "we needed to score 4 goals and nobody expects that" or some such, the week before it was "nobody expects us to win so I thought we did well" then his most recent comparing the fans opinions to his 35 years of experience , after he just lost, again.
Yes he has a hard job, but even with the very low expectations put on him he has managed to disappoint.
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I can't understand there being any reason to play Bacuna. None whatsoever. Not only is he horrible but it's a huge negative distraction. And Richards over Okore, Richardson over anyone. I don't entirely disagree with him not playing the kids but there are other senior players he could be playing instead of ones who are roundly disliked.
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Have all you that are on Twitter seen Shaun Teale's comments re Black and Lescott today?
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Have all you that are on Twitter seen Shaun Teale's comments re Black and Lescott today?
Pray tell for those of us who aren't please.
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Well jolean it proves on thing with or without pressure on your shoulders your still wank. ..oh and while we are on that subject do you think you could go and nourish Mr Lerner
Been a bit busy so just catching up .....Mr Black I have a question why o why play the same fucking jokers that have taken us down ....just shows you are a clueless Scottish prick
Copied and pasted. Legion posted them on Facebook.
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Jack black could pick a better team than Eric black
Not one supporter in vp yesterday or anywhere in the world would of picked that Team
I'd fancy Bernard Black to pick a better line up than yesterday's.
Mind you it did have a suspicion of a Manny Bianco team talk.
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Well jolean it proves on thing with or without pressure on your shoulders your still wank. ..oh and while we are on that subject do you think you could go and nourish Mr Lerner
Been a bit busy so just catching up .....Mr Black I have a question why o why play the same fucking jokers that have taken us down ....just shows you are a clueless Scottish prick
Copied and pasted. Legion posted them on Facebook.
Quite apart from the choice language, I'd say that must cut more than when McGrath weighed in a few weeks ago.
They can always lean back and say, well you can't compare us to a once in a generation player. But with Teale, who the greatest respect to the greatest moustache in 90s football, was a hard working journeyman, probably never had the talent some of these wasters have, but he'd eat this lot for breakfast and have enough left over for elevenses.
And why? Because he'd want it and it would kill him to think he hadn't left everything he'd got on the pitch trying.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/24/eric-black-pays-tribute-to-the-courage-of-boo-boy-joleon-lescott/
Black is seriously pissing me off.
He really doesn't get it does he?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/24/eric-black-pays-tribute-to-the-courage-of-boo-boy-joleon-lescott/
Black is seriously pissing me off.
He really doesn't get it does he?
He's clearly as thick as pigshit.
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Is it possible that we have experienced the worst stand in Managers of all time? We have that fucking bonehead Kmac and his glorious team selections at Southampton and Tottenham, followed by this fucking moron. Is he that oblivious to the shit that has come out of Lescott's mouth recently, let alone his arse pocket tweeting cars? Oh and Wycombe the thick bastard. The sooner this club is rid of Kmac and Black the better we will be.
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Arrogant, condescending amateur.
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I was pleased in a way that EB played the parasites yesterday and they got the abuse they royally deserved.
But for the Newcastle game, surely he could play the U21s? We would be fully behind them, and they would actually have a chance of competing in the game, which the current lot don't have.
Otherwise he plays the same side again, we lose, and Newcastle probably stay up and have a good laugh at us.
But then, EB knows best....
why play the youngsters against newcastle? it is not what we'd like to see if we were in Sunderland's or Norwich's position.
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Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan or hoping he stays! He's been left with a bunch who have seen off two managers this season and don't look like they give a single toss about the club, Guardiola wouldn't get anything out of this rabble.
Don't play them then. Lescott and Bacuna have been given enough abuse now, bin them off. Someone like Sinclair isn't even being booed, that's how much of a non-entity he is, why play him ahead of Grealish or Adama?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/24/eric-black-pays-tribute-to-the-courage-of-boo-boy-joleon-lescott/
Black is seriously pissing me off.
He really doesn't get it does he?
As I've mentioned before, Lescott's biggest crimes have been his aging legs and his lack of communication skills, mainly on social media. I understand where Black is coming from but nothing he's going to say will make much sense now. While he wears the shirt, Lescott seems to give his best but his best wasn't even good enough for the Albion. Why are so many surprised he's shit?
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Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan or hoping he stays! He's been left with a bunch who have seen off two managers this season and don't look like they give a single toss about the club, Guardiola wouldn't get anything out of this rabble.
Don't play them then. Lescott and Bacuna have been given enough abuse now, bin them off. Someone like Sinclair isn't even being booed, that's how much of a non-entity he is, why play him ahead of Grealish or Adama?
Sinclair has actually played OK in the past two home games. Not going to happen with Okore, but the team I would like to see for the rest of the season is:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Sanchez Gana
Sinclair Grealish Ayew
Gestede
Subs - Toner, Lyden, Westwood, Veretout, Adama, Gil (sub keeper from U21s)
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Sinclair and Grealish are both all fart, no shit. They do all the hard work but no end product. Yesterday was another classic example. Whilst I still believe Grealish has the capacity to grow and be a good player for us, Sinclair is a bloody passenger. Like N'Zogbia, every time I see his name on the team sheet, I realise we're starting with 10 men. And we're surprised how we keep losing?
Replace Sinclair with Adama and Grealish with Vertout. It would be great to finally see him not played out of position.
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Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan or hoping he stays! He's been left with a bunch who have seen off two managers this season and don't look like they give a single toss about the club, Guardiola wouldn't get anything out of this rabble.
Don't play them then. Lescott and Bacuna have been given enough abuse now, bin them off. Someone like Sinclair isn't even being booed, that's how much of a non-entity he is, why play him ahead of Grealish or Adama?
Sinclair has actually played OK in the past two home games. Not going to happen with Okore, but the team I would like to see for the rest of the season is:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Sanchez Gana
Sinclair Grealish Ayew
Gestede
Subs - Toner, Lyden, Westwood, Veretout, Adama, Gil (sub keeper from U21s)
I disagree on Sinclair, the reason you can say he's played ok is because you can remember 2-3 good things. The problem is those are the only things he did all game. He goes through long periods where he's done literally nothing to affect the game for 10-15minutes, and not just because we don't have the ball. He's nothing like as bad as Richardson (who gets in the way of us making things happen) but that's faint praise.
You team but with Westwood in alongside Sanchez, Gana futher forward, Grealish left and Ayew right. I'd encourage Gana and Sanchez to run themselves into the ground for an hour and then swap them for Veretout and Traore and go to more of a 442. Keeping Grealish on the left is purely because he can cross a ball and Gestede really needs that, with Ayew on the otherside hopefully also creating a little space because ...
I'd want Ayew running at his full back and the left centre back regularly, try to get one or both in the book and hopefully pin their left side back a little to control him, with Gana in their faces and pressuring the ball high also playing a part. That way you've got tiring defenders in place when Traore comes on and you can let him just go at them.
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Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan or hoping he stays! He's been left with a bunch who have seen off two managers this season and don't look like they give a single toss about the club, Guardiola wouldn't get anything out of this rabble.
Don't play them then. Lescott and Bacuna have been given enough abuse now, bin them off. Someone like Sinclair isn't even being booed, that's how much of a non-entity he is, why play him ahead of Grealish or Adama?
Sinclair has actually played OK in the past two home games. Not going to happen with Okore, but the team I would like to see for the rest of the season is:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Sanchez Gana
Sinclair Grealish Ayew
Gestede
Subs - Toner, Lyden, Westwood, Veretout, Adama, Gil (sub keeper from U21s)
I disagree on Sinclair, the reason you can say he's played ok is because you can remember 2-3 good things. The problem is those are the only things he did all game. He goes through long periods where he's done literally nothing to affect the game for 10-15minutes, and not just because we don't have the ball. He's nothing like as bad as Richardson (who gets in the way of us making things happen) but that's faint praise.
You team but with Westwood in alongside Sanchez, Gana futher forward, Grealish left and Ayew right. I'd encourage Gana and Sanchez to run themselves into the ground for an hour and then swap them for Veretout and Traore and go to more of a 442. Keeping Grealish on the left is purely because he can cross a ball and Gestede really needs that, with Ayew on the otherside hopefully also creating a little space because ...
I'd want Ayew running at his full back and the left centre back regularly, try to get one or both in the book and hopefully pin their left side back a little to control him, with Gana in their faces and pressuring the ball high also playing a part. That way you've got tiring defenders in place when Traore comes on and you can let him just go at them.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think Sinclair has done OK in the last two home games and thought he was harshly taken off against Bournemouth. Didn't see anything of the Man Utd game except the goal, so don't know how he did then. I still think Ayew's best position is on the left cutting in and that Grealish is better in the number ten role rather than out wide.
I say all this, but am pretty sure that Black will stick with the same players he has used so far. I still think Richardson would have played on Saturday had he not been injured.
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I think Sinclair will be just fine at Champonship level. A few of our players will be which probably tells you why we are headed there. Throw in a massive lack of confidence and inept coaching and management, combined with the disaster at board level the players aren't showing anything like their true ability. Oh and Richards, Gabby, Bacuna, Guzan etc etc
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Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan or hoping he stays! He's been left with a bunch who have seen off two managers this season and don't look like they give a single toss about the club, Guardiola wouldn't get anything out of this rabble.
Don't play them then. Lescott and Bacuna have been given enough abuse now, bin them off. Someone like Sinclair isn't even being booed, that's how much of a non-entity he is, why play him ahead of Grealish or Adama?
Sinclair has actually played OK in the past two home games. Not going to happen with Okore, but the team I would like to see for the rest of the season is:
Bunn
Hutton Okore Clark Cissokho
Sanchez Gana
Sinclair Grealish Ayew
Gestede
Subs - Toner, Lyden, Westwood, Veretout, Adama, Gil (sub keeper from U21s)
I disagree on Sinclair, the reason you can say he's played ok is because you can remember 2-3 good things. The problem is those are the only things he did all game. He goes through long periods where he's done literally nothing to affect the game for 10-15minutes, and not just because we don't have the ball. He's nothing like as bad as Richardson (who gets in the way of us making things happen) but that's faint praise.
You team but with Westwood in alongside Sanchez, Gana futher forward, Grealish left and Ayew right. I'd encourage Gana and Sanchez to run themselves into the ground for an hour and then swap them for Veretout and Traore and go to more of a 442. Keeping Grealish on the left is purely because he can cross a ball and Gestede really needs that, with Ayew on the otherside hopefully also creating a little space because ...
I'd want Ayew running at his full back and the left centre back regularly, try to get one or both in the book and hopefully pin their left side back a little to control him, with Gana in their faces and pressuring the ball high also playing a part. That way you've got tiring defenders in place when Traore comes on and you can let him just go at them.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think Sinclair has done OK in the last two home games and thought he was harshly taken off against Bournemouth. Didn't see anything of the Man Utd game except the goal, so don't know how he did then. I still think Ayew's best position is on the left cutting in and that Grealish is better in the number ten role rather than out wide.
I say all this, but am pretty sure that Black will stick with the same players he has used so far. I still think Richardson would have played on Saturday had he not been injured.
The Richardson inclusion was the most bizarre decision Black has made.
To even put him in the 18 is baffling but to include him ahead of so many other options is frankly an insult to supporters intelligence.
And yes he would have played and will play on Saturday if fit.
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I think Sinclair will be just fine at Champonship level. A few of our players will be which probably tells you why we are headed there. Throw in a massive lack of confidence and inept coaching and management, combined with the disaster at board level the players aren't showing anything like their true ability. Oh and Richards, Gabby, Bacuna, Guzan etc etc
I do accept Paul and Rudy's points in that although I think Sinclair has done OK recently, he hasn't threatened in terms of goals and assists. I think Grealish is at home in the number, but again he doesn't score or create enough. Same with Gil and to a lesser extent, Ayew. We certainly need more in the final third from our attacking players.
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We certainly need at least two forwards in the summer with Gestede and Kozak as alternates. That and 2 CB's and a Gk are an absolute must.
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And a couple of midfield warriors.
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We certainly need at least two forwards in the summer with Gestede and Kozak as alternates. That and 2 CB's and a Gk are an absolute must.
:)
YES !
But, TV, with the ownership in alleged transition...who on earth is going to select, interview, sign ANY player.
Without a cemented-in manager, acceptable to both seller and buyer...who recruits?
Reilly. Hollis and Brian ?
And if they recruit, for what kind of manager are they recruiting ...someone for a couple of months...someone for a season?
:(
Our DEFAULT TRANSFER COMMITTEE is broke before they start.
imo
:-[
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A few simple questions...
Who the fuck is he?
Where the fuck did he come from?
Why the fuck has he been chosen to manage the remaining games?
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There's just no excuse in playing Bacuna when you can literally play anyone else. Play the fucking tea lady for all I care, that scrap of ordure should never appear in a Villa shirt ever again.
Unfortunately Doris the tea lady is to lose her job in the cuts so that is not an option open to Mr Black.
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There's just no excuse in playing Bacuna when you can literally play anyone else. Play the fucking tea lady for all I care, that scrap of ordure should never appear in a Villa shirt ever again.
Unfortunately Doris the tea lady is to lose her job in the cuts so that is not an option open to Mr Black.
She's more a left sided midfielder anyway. Stupid suggestion.
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Should have given the job to Eileen.
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Oh come on!
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Not Eileen Over FFS.
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Should have give the job to Eileen.
My thoughts , I confess....
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Should have give the job to Eileen.
Come on. Eileen?
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Watching the post match interviews I get the impression Eric Black dislikes these bastards as much as we do. He cant wait to leave I wish we had that choice.
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Watching the post match interviews I get the impression Eric Black dislikes these bastards as much as we do. He cant wait to leave I wish we had that choice.
He's going the right way to ensure he does. Tosser!
Him not you BTW.
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I wonder if Eric Black will leave with a 100% record. Will it be a first?
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I'm just working on a T shirt design:
Eric Black - A Cock 35 years in the Making
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I'm just working on a T shirt design:
Eric Black - A Cock 35 years in the Making
Don't forget "The Caretaker tour dates"on the back please.
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I think Sinclair will be just fine at Champonship level. A few of our players will be which probably tells you why we are headed there. Throw in a massive lack of confidence and inept coaching and management, combined with the disaster at board level the players aren't showing anything like their true ability. Oh and Richards, Gabby, Bacuna, Guzan etc etc
Motivation levels for Sinclair, Man. City move made him for life.
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I wonder if Eric Black will leave with a 100% record. Will it be a first?
I'd say it's extremely likely.
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I was pleased in a way that EB played the parasites yesterday and they got the abuse they royally deserved.
But for the Newcastle game, surely he could play the U21s? We would be fully behind them, and they would actually have a chance of competing in the game, which the current lot don't have.
Otherwise he plays the same side again, we lose, and Newcastle probably stay up and have a good laugh at us.
But then, EB knows best....
why play the youngsters against newcastle? it is not what we'd like to see if we were in Sunderland's or Norwich's position.
Sunderland and Norwich are probably more worried we'll field the senior players.
/baddumtish
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Should have give the job to Eileen.
Come on. Eileen?
Now I must say, more than ever.
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There is no justification for picking the team he picks each week. I may not have 35 years experience in the game, but I think my belief that maintaining consistency of selection, when all it brings is defeat, is completely pointless. I also think selecting some of the players who have some flair about them might just help bring the crowd back onside a bit. He goes on about the atmosphere in Villa Park, but he's massively contributing to that by picking tried and tested failures.
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He is a complete idiot.
Can we list his achievements in those 35 years?
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Managerial? None. Terrible track record.
Apparently he was a good enough player though.
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I've been thinking about all the players who played under Ferguson at Aberdeen and ManUre and can't think of any who have made a real impact at managerial level. Hughes and Bruce being the most successful with others such as Robson, McGhee and McLeish being uninspiring at best, Black doesn't even belong to the latter category.
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Perhaps I have the wrong attitude but I really don't give a hoot about Black and his team selections.
Since our relegation was more or less confirmed, I've been enjoying watching some of our players squirm.
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I understand what you're saying Mal but the minute the final whistle went confirming relegation was the minute the preparation for the promotion push should have started. Despite whatever is going on at boardroom level, Black's position is one that he should be doing his utmost to put that promotion plan into operation. His team selections have proven the total opposite. Get feckin rid.
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Managerial? None. Terrible track record.
Apparently he was a good enough player though.
yes that was what I meant, his managerial success.
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What are the chances - there can't be more than four people in the world who would put the current version of Kieran Richardson in a Premier League starting lineup, and they've all managed us this season.
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I understand what you're saying Mal but the minute the final whistle went confirming relegation was the minute the preparation for the promotion push should have started. Despite whatever is going on at boardroom level, Black's position is one that he should be doing his utmost to put that promotion plan into operation. His team selections have proven the total opposite. Get feckin rid.
He'll be gone soon enough but I don't believe he's sabotaging us like our last caretaker.
My hope is NOT for a new manager. I want a new owner first.
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I get the abuse though think it's over the top. What does he have to gain by doing anything other than naming the same tired 11 or 12? He's going to lose his job, he sees what everyone else sees (players don't give a toss), and while he sticks around he will pick up a nice pay check.
He is hardly motivated to do anything.
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He is hardly motivated to do anything.
No one at the club is. Theyre all place holders in limbo waiting to see if/when we are sold. Show any ambition above anything than going through the motions and Lerner reigns you in.
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Metro
Acting Aston Villa manager Eric Black has said the ‘difficult atmosphere’ at Villa Park has made him scared to field young players.
Villa suffered another home defeat on Saturday, losing 4-2 to Southampton just a week after their relegation to the Championship was confirmed.
Some supporters have called on Black to ditch players who took the club down and give younger players a chance in the first team.
But Black says he is scared of exposing young players to the toxic atmosphere at Villa’s home games, which has reached a crescendo in recent weeks.
‘I’m fearful of that [fielding younger players]. I don’t want this to be detrimental,’ he said.
‘This is a difficult atmosphere for young players to play in. Certainly the home games’.
One experienced player who has come in for the brunt of supporter’s criticism is Joleon Lescott.
The former Manchester City centre-back has suffered a poor season at the heart of a Villa defence which has conceded the most of
any team in the Premier League (69).
Against Southampton, fans chanted ‘weight of the shoulders’ in response to how Lescott describing the feeling of going down.
But although Black said improved performances were the only way Lescott could repair his relationship with the fans, the 52-year-old commended the defender’s attitude in the face of all the abuse.
‘He’s a Birmingham boy and he’s been a fan all of his life. I can only imagine that he’ll be feeling it tough. But I can imagine that’s why he’s not downed tools and he keeps turning up,’ he said.
‘I can’t point a finger at Joleon Lescott in terms of his attitude. His desire to be in the team. So I’ll give him credit for that.’
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Oh just fcuk off Black.
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Is this bloke thick or what?
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Is this bloke thick or what?
It's certainly not what!
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So both the club captain and the match-day captain have disgraced themselves on and off the pitch and he supports them. The pair of those twats should be sacked, but no, the manager backs them.
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The guy hasn't got a fu!*ing clue, he is treating us with the same contempt as the players.
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Metro
Acting Aston Villa manager Eric Black has said the ‘difficult atmosphere’ at Villa Park has made him scared to field young players.
Villa suffered another home defeat on Saturday, losing 4-2 to Southampton just a week after their relegation to the Championship was confirmed.
Some supporters have called on Black to ditch players who took the club down and give younger players a chance in the first team.
But Black says he is scared of exposing young players to the toxic atmosphere at Villa’s home games, which has reached a crescendo in recent weeks.
‘I’m fearful of that [fielding younger players]. I don’t want this to be detrimental,’ he said.
‘This is a difficult atmosphere for young players to play in. Certainly the home games’.
One experienced player who has come in for the brunt of supporter’s criticism is Joleon Lescott.
The former Manchester City centre-back has suffered a poor season at the heart of a Villa defence which has conceded the most of
any team in the Premier League (69).
Against Southampton, fans chanted ‘weight of the shoulders’ in response to how Lescott describing the feeling of going down.
But although Black said improved performances were the only way Lescott could repair his relationship with the fans, the 52-year-old commended the defender’s attitude in the face of all the abuse.
‘He’s a Birmingham boy and he’s been a fan all of his life. I can only imagine that he’ll be feeling it tough. But I can imagine that’s why he’s not downed tools and he keeps turning up,’ he said.
‘I can’t point a finger at Joleon Lescott in terms of his attitude. His desire to be in the team. So I’ll give him credit for that.’
yeah. Piss off Eric. You know damn well whats going on. Stop pretending there is some kind of nasty crowd at Villa park. They are just tired of your shitty team selections and your "cant point the finger" at them players who cannot be arsed to play for you or the club.
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I find your responses truly bizarre. What do you want him to say or do? He has to support his players, he has to try and give them some moral support and gee them up. he's trying to deflect criticism from them and more power to him. He is trying to get us back working as a normal football team - clearly the relationship between the fans and players has dipped to a level that we have never seen. Its awful. It has to change. It won't change if Black panders to the fans and drops everyone that we don't like and just throws the kids in to said horrible atmosphere.
Black is doing what he can in what is an intolerable poisonous charged environment and we're so negative to anything and everything everyone is a cnut.
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How much abuse did Toner get Saturday? How about Ayew? Sanchez? And so on. The atmosphere is shit because Bacuna, Lescott, Guzan, Richards are on the pitch.
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I would never boo one of the youngsters but I would boo black all day long.
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Metro
Acting Aston Villa manager Eric Black has said the ‘difficult atmosphere’ at Villa Park has made him scared to field young players.
Villa suffered another home defeat on Saturday, losing 4-2 to Southampton just a week after their relegation to the Championship was confirmed.
Some supporters have called on Black to ditch players who took the club down and give younger players a chance in the first team.
But Black says he is scared of exposing young players to the toxic atmosphere at Villa’s home games, which has reached a crescendo in recent weeks.
‘I’m fearful of that [fielding younger players]. I don’t want this to be detrimental,’ he said.
‘This is a difficult atmosphere for young players to play in. Certainly the home games’.
One experienced player who has come in for the brunt of supporter’s criticism is Joleon Lescott.
The former Manchester City centre-back has suffered a poor season at the heart of a Villa defence which has conceded the most of
any team in the Premier League (69).
Against Southampton, fans chanted ‘weight of the shoulders’ in response to how Lescott describing the feeling of going down.
But although Black said improved performances were the only way Lescott could repair his relationship with the fans, the 52-year-old commended the defender’s attitude in the face of all the abuse.
‘He’s a Birmingham boy and he’s been a fan all of his life. I can only imagine that he’ll be feeling it tough. But I can imagine that’s why he’s not downed tools and he keeps turning up,’ he said.
‘I can’t point a finger at Joleon Lescott in terms of his attitude. His desire to be in the team. So I’ll give him credit for that.’
yeah. Piss off Eric. You know damn well whats going on. Stop pretending there is some kind of nasty crowd at Villa park. They are just tired of your shitty team selections and your "cant point the finger" at them players who cannot be arsed to play for you or the club.
I'll stop the Black bashing after this.
But I reckon he must have been in emotional turmoil at half-time on Saturday.
"Oh crap. My skippers injured I've only got Kevin Toner as cover"
"My 35 years of experience is telling me not to play a kid. Not to expose him to the toxic atmosphere "
"He won't be able to handle it"
"I'll ruin his career"
Well he coped with the occasion pretty well I thought. He contributed far more than the skipper.The World didn't stop turning and he would have been honoured to wear the shirt Eric.
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The acceptance of the behaviour of the likes of lescott and gabby are part of the reason we are in this mess. After lescotts second idiotic outburst he should have been dropped, let alone the embarressing on pitch performances.
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It doesn't need to be targetted to one player for it not to affect someone else. You have two children and shout out one and the other will cry. You have a team roundly booed, mocked, with constant ill will in the crowd and it will affect players that are in credit at some point. how can it not? Do you think Ayew enjoys the fact that he's not being booed more than he'd prefer there to be no booing? As the other thread asks it has to stop someone and again, why would a youngster thrive in that atmosphere? Lyden has looked lost and nervous. What if Toner has a bad game he'll be bricking it. Then what do we have left, keep pressure on for Green to play? That will pile pressure on to him more than he needs.
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How much abuse did Toner get Saturday? How about Ayew? Sanchez? And so on. The atmosphere is shit because Bacuna, Lescott, Guzan, Richards are on the pitch.
Exactly. Remove these players and the whole atmosphere changes. Its that simple.
I would never boo a youngster who will at the very least show effort, commitment, passion and some pride in wearing the shirt.
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Metro
Acting Aston Villa manager Eric Black has said the ‘difficult atmosphere’ at Villa Park has made him scared to field young players.
Villa suffered another home defeat on Saturday, losing 4-2 to Southampton just a week after their relegation to the Championship was confirmed.
Some supporters have called on Black to ditch players who took the club down and give younger players a chance in the first team.
But Black says he is scared of exposing young players to the toxic atmosphere at Villa’s home games, which has reached a crescendo in recent weeks.
‘I’m fearful of that [fielding younger players]. I don’t want this to be detrimental,’ he said.
‘This is a difficult atmosphere for young players to play in. Certainly the home games’.
One experienced player who has come in for the brunt of supporter’s criticism is Joleon Lescott.
The former Manchester City centre-back has suffered a poor season at the heart of a Villa defence which has conceded the most of
any team in the Premier League (69).
Against Southampton, fans chanted ‘weight of the shoulders’ in response to how Lescott describing the feeling of going down.
But although Black said improved performances were the only way Lescott could repair his relationship with the fans, the 52-year-old commended the defender’s attitude in the face of all the abuse.
‘He’s a Birmingham boy and he’s been a fan all of his life. I can only imagine that he’ll be feeling it tough. But I can imagine that’s why he’s not downed tools and he keeps turning up,’ he said.
‘I can’t point a finger at Joleon Lescott in terms of his attitude. His desire to be in the team. So I’ll give him credit for that.’
Is it me, or is that a retort to Okore's "your not telling the whole truth" tweet as much as it's a trying to big up Lescott?
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How about not picking any of the 4 or 5 players that are getting pelters. Problem solved. Eric Black seems to be the only person so stupid that he can't see it's certain players copping it and not the whole team. But he'd prefer to pick those players every week, watch them lose every week anyway, and help create this 'toxic' atmosphere every week.
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And do you think Toner came of the pitch delighted that he played at home in the Premier League? That he managed to make the step up and loved every minute of it. That the booing isn't directed towards him, or any player, personally is missing the point.
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That quote about Light-shouldered lescott's 'attitude' is also a classic.
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If he picked players that weren't universally disliked the problem immediately goes away. Throw some kids in the fans would get behind the side immediately and the atmosphere would be completely different. We might still lose the games but I bet you the effort would be much greater than we have seen all season.
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I thought it was interesting on Saturday that Ashley Westwood chose not to celebrate either of his goals despite both of them getting us back into the game. I think that may have been partially because he wasn't sure what the crowd's reaction would be. Even though Westwood is one of the players less likely to be a target for abuse it obviously affected him.
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And yet by dropping those 4 or 5 players you think what exactly would improve? lets say we did drop those mentioned above and we lost 8-0 but ran around more you'd be happier because the the bad and the average, and the idiots will have been dropped? No, I think it would only make things worse. It would just be a "Fuck it they'll all a bunch of cnuts. None of them are any good". Black is trying to protect against that and using what he has at his disposal. i think ist the right method although i agree that its a tough sell when taking Ayew off after an hour - but what had he done up until then?
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We are losing every game right now under Black PLUS playing players who have expressed through word & deed they really do not give a damn and want away.
Honestly "pandering to the fans" and playing the kids literally cannot do any worse.
Its not like we get -1 point for losing in a particularly bad way.
Worst case we get a 8-nil hiding. Been there, done it. There are very few bad records left to break. Just give the fans something to cheer about by an interesting team selection. There is no way the kids are getting booed.
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We've been losing games all season. Who do you think could change that? Which players hidden away that have been available under Sherwood and Garde do you think will be unearthed that would be useful at this point? Throw the kids in now? Not as part of any wholesale changes. Kids won't get booed, no, but that would be throwing in the towel (just throwing kids in and despite how shit we are we have a duty to try and be professional (no laughing at the back) and show enough respect to other teams that we are that desperate we just throw anyone in just to see what happens.
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And yet by dropping those 4 or 5 players you think what exactly would improve? lets say we did drop those mentioned above and we lost 8-0 but ran around more you'd be happier because the the bad and the average, and the idiots will have been dropped? No, I think it would only make things worse. It would just be a "Fuck it they'll all a bunch of cnuts. None of them are any good". Black is trying to protect against that and using what he has at his disposal. i think ist the right method although i agree that its a tough sell when taking Ayew off after an hour - but what had he done up until then?
Even ignoring that those players are creating the 'toxic' atmosphere off the pitch, do you really think swapping those 4 or 5 players could make us worse on it? Worse than 10 straight defeats, 6 straight home defeats, 3 wins from 35 games, 16 points from 105 available, lowest scorers in the division, worst defence in the division? If we lose without scoring at Watford we'll have more defeats than goals scored in the league this season.
How can it be any worse?
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You are right, but we are also losing games with these players under Black.
I don't see changing the players would be being unprofessional at all. Okore for example has demonstrated we perform better with him in the team (thats just a statistic not an opinion). Why shouldn't he replace one of our defenders?
(thanks for the discussion by the way PeterW, even though I disagree I appreciate your advocacy for the unpopular opinion, always a hard road, good stuff)
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And yet by dropping those 4 or 5 players you think what exactly would improve? lets say we did drop those mentioned above and we lost 8-0 but ran around more you'd be happier because the the bad and the average, and the idiots will have been dropped? No, I think it would only make things worse. It would just be a "Fuck it they'll all a bunch of cnuts. None of them are any good". Black is trying to protect against that and using what he has at his disposal. i think ist the right method although i agree that its a tough sell when taking Ayew off after an hour - but what had he done up until then?
Even ignoring that those players are creating the 'toxic' atmosphere off the pitch, do you really think swapping those 4 or 5 players could make us worse on it? Worse than 10 straight defeats, 6 straight home defeats, 3 wins from 35 games, 16 points from 105 available, lowest scorers in the division, worst defence in the division? If we lose without scoring at Watford we'll have more defeats than goals scored in the league this season.
How can it be any worse?
It could only be worse if by changing it so fans can say "shit, at last" and then we get a stuffing. Black has spoken of his reluctance to play too many youngsters and its a sound reason. Just because we want shot of the players that have got us into this doesn't mean we should throw the kids under the bus just to keep the fans happy for the sake of the tail end of a god forsaken season.
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We've been losing games all season. Who do you think could change that? Which players hidden away that have been available under Sherwood and Garde do you think will be unearthed that would be useful at this point? Throw the kids in now? Not as part of any wholesale changes. Kids won't get booed, no, but that would be throwing in the towel (just throwing kids in and despite how shit we are we have a duty to try and be professional (no laughing at the back) and show enough respect to other teams that we are that desperate we just throw anyone in just to see what happens.
I totally get your point and you're right.
Managers don't and won't expose youngsters to this so we're just going to have to sit it out.
I think Black is missing an opportunity here by not adding some flair and youth to the side personally and picking up a few brownie points for at least changing things around.
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I thought it was interesting on Saturday that Ashley Westwood chose not to celebrate either of his goals despite both of them getting us back into the game. I think that may have been partially because he wasn't sure what the crowd's reaction would be. Even though Westwood is one of the players less likely to be a target for abuse it obviously affected him.
I think he realized that celebrating a goal in a game we were losing, in a season that we got relegated, in a game that meant nothing, in an atmosphere that was already hostile would have been a bad thing to do.
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And what if without those 4 or 5 players we see a bit of improvement rather than a total collapse? It's not as if it's guaranteed it will be three 8-0 defeats. Maybe one or two youngsters will step up, put a marker down to be included next season. What I will say is if we continue picking those 4 or 5 players we'll continue to have a 'toxic' atmosphere', we'll almost certainly finish the season with 13 straight defeats. To me we have more to potentially gain than lose.
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You are right, but we are also losing games with these players under Black.
I don't see changing the players would be being unprofessional at all. Okore for example has demonstrated we perform better with him in the team (thats just a statistic not an opinion). Why shouldn't he replace one of our defenders?
(thanks for the discussion by the way PeterW, even though I disagree I appreciate your advocacy for the unpopular opinion, always a hard road, good stuff)
What I would do and where I agree with the point of a missed opportunity is to try and change the formstion. Go 5-4-1, or 4-5-1 to try and just sit. just try something else. We haven't the players so try different ideas. But I can understand that it is difficult to just change when the ship has sailed so far and you know someone else is coming in soon anyway.
And cheers ciggies. I do get the booing. And I understand it and largely accepted it at first but that has got to a point of being counter-productive now and (checks and remembers this is the Black thread) i do think Black is in an unbelievably difficult position right now.
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And what if without those 4 or 5 players we see a bit of improvement rather than a total collapse? It's not as if it's guaranteed it will be three 8-0 defeats. Maybe one or two youngsters will step up, put a marker down to be included next season. What I will say is if we continue picking those 4 or 5 players we'll continue to have a 'toxic' atmosphere', we'll almost certainly finish the season with 13 straight defeats. To me we have more to potentially gain than lose.
You could certainly start by binning Richards and Lescott who seem to be the targets for most of the stress relief.
That would however entail bringing Okore back into the fold and pairing him with Clark, which I still think has been our best pairing over the last 2 seasons. Yes damning with faint praise. That still leaves you with 3 subs to try and do something with as the game progresses, and shifts 2 of the problem people out for players who aren't green, naive or as easily cowed as the youngsters he's worried about.
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What is the point of Eric Black right now? He's about as useful as a pair of sunglasses to a bloke with one ear.
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And what if without those 4 or 5 players we see a bit of improvement rather than a total collapse? It's not as if it's guaranteed it will be three 8-0 defeats. Maybe one or two youngsters will step up, put a marker down to be included next season. What I will say is if we continue picking those 4 or 5 players we'll continue to have a 'toxic' atmosphere', we'll almost certainly finish the season with 13 straight defeats. To me we have more to potentially gain than lose.
You could certainly start by binning Richards and Lescott who seem to be the targets for most of the stress relief.
That would however entail bringing Okore back into the fold and pairing him with Clark, which I still think has been our best pairing over the last 2 seasons. Yes damning with faint praise. That still leaves you with 3 subs to try and do something with as the game progresses, and shifts 2 of the problem people out for players who aren't green, naive or as easily cowed as the youngsters he's worried about.
Okay, let's say they're binned. Okore isn't going to get selected and that seems fair enough - whichever way you think you blame should fall for him being dropped - Clark was injured last week and Baker is on loan. So, for the next game, or even the game against Southampton would you have started with Toner and one of Lescott or Richards? For me that would be unfair on Toner - a player that has hardly warranted a mention to be included int he first team up until now.
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The thing is, does it have to be youngsters? Replace Bacuna with Gestede and there's 1 'problem' solved. Replace Guzan with Bunn and there's another, bring in Clark and Okore (or Toner in place of one of them) at the back and you've got all of the 'bads' out of the team. You might need 1 or 2 on the bench as cover but just get them to sit quietly and only bring them on as injury replacements.
I can understand not wanting to throw 4-5 kids in but you can at least try to pick an 11 that has a future at the club (If they want it).
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replace a midfielder with a centre-forward out of his depth who has also come in for criticism? Bunn was very average when he came in and to be fair to him Guzan has played well of late. Okore? You're joking surely. he dorsn't want to play. He should be binned. Clark was injured. It's not just as easy as saying - there you go I've got rid of them - and in any case the players you picked, what makes you think anything would be different - Toner aside they have been shite too this season.
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replace a midfielder with a centre-forward out of his depth who has also come in for criticism? Bunn was very average when he came in and to be fair to him Guzan has played well of late. Okore? You're joking surely. he dorsn't want to play. He should be binned. Clark was injured. It's not just as easy as saying - there you go I've got rid of them - and in any case the players you picked, what makes you think anything would be different - Toner aside they have been shite too this season.
Replace a midfielder with a striker, yes, we're relegated already do we really need to be playing 451 badly and offering very little going forward, it's not like the extra cover is making us tougher to breakdown.
I agree that Bunn was average and I don't think there's much between the 2 but one is being booed the other isn't.
Okore, no I'm not joking, he should be ahead of Richards and Lescott and he has far more credit in the bank with fans than those 2 put together. We don't know the details of the fallout between him and Black but if he wants to play then he's shown that he'll put more effort in than the 2 who were picked ahead of him.
Clark, I know he was injured which is why I said 'or Toner'.
What would be different is that the players who are getting booed wouldn't be on the pitch so there would be a better atmosphere, the results don't mean shit right now but doing something to bridge the gap between the team and the fans might be important and that's not going to happen with the safety first bullshit selections we've seen from Black. Most of those players have been less shite than the ones they'd be replacing anyway so again it's not like it's even hard to justify making these changes purely on form from this season. The sole reason he's picking the team like this is that his 35 years in the game have taught him that experience is important, so he's picking his most experienced 11.
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Yes, but you're replacing a midfielder for a sub-standard centre forward who needs service. Play him and he needs decent service. Play him without it and he's passenger as he has been all season. Absolutely no point just throwing someone who has failed all season just so its a change and we're down anyway.
As Okore. Whether he should be ahead of Lescott or Richards or not he isn't because he had the shirt and put in some truly woeful performances. He then made some ill advised comments and now we're told he's refusing to play. Either way there's no way he can or should be anyehere near the first team or any impressionable academy players like Toner coming through. I'd wager Toner was only put on the bench because against Southampton because there was no other alternative. i have seen little from him (which is virtually nothing to be fair) or Lyden to suggest they should be near the first team. Squad maybe. With that in mind, again, I think Black has little choice as to who he can play at centre-half.
Safety first is where Black has to go. He has to produce a base to work from.
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Yes I'd agree with this
Jores Okore is not the first and definitely not the last who has expressed his opinion on team matters but still should get picked and you're right. He's got more credit and ability than Lescott and Richards.
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He's refused to play for the team and you said we should pick him? No, sod him.
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Yes, but you're replacing a midfielder for a sub-standard centre forward who needs service. Play him and he needs decent service. Play him without it and he's passenger as he has been all season. Absolutely no point just throwing someone who has failed all season just so its a change and we're down anyway.
As Okore. Whether he should be ahead of Lescott or Richards or not he isn't because he had the shirt and put in some truly woeful performances. He then made some ill advised comments and now we're told he's refusing to play. Either way there's no way he can or should be anyehere near the first team or any impressionable academy players like Toner coming through. I'd wager Toner was only put on the bench because against Southampton because there was no other alternative. i have seen little from him (which is virtually nothing to be fair) or Lyden to suggest they should be near the first team. Squad maybe. With that in mind, again, I think Black has little choice as to who he can play at centre-half.
Safety first is where Black has to go. He has to produce a base to work from.
A base to work from, for what ends? The season is all but over, we are relegated what is the point of him looking to the future when he's out the door come the end of May and many of the players will be looking to join him?
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I can understand even if I passionately disagree with some of the selection decisions. Apart from one. Bacuna - why?
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Because the new manager is going to have have something to build onto for next season. We can't expect to buy a whole new team and start from there. plus, as a club we'll have more positivity at the end of a bad campaign if the slightest green shoots of recovery are seen from a solid base.
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Yes, but you're replacing a midfielder for a sub-standard centre forward who needs service. Play him and he needs decent service. Play him without it and he's passenger as he has been all season. Absolutely no point just throwing someone who has failed all season just so its a change and we're down anyway.
As Okore. Whether he should be ahead of Lescott or Richards or not he isn't because he had the shirt and put in some truly woeful performances. He then made some ill advised comments and now we're told he's refusing to play. Either way there's no way he can or should be anyehere near the first team or any impressionable academy players like Toner coming through. I'd wager Toner was only put on the bench because against Southampton because there was no other alternative. i have seen little from him (which is virtually nothing to be fair) or Lyden to suggest they should be near the first team. Squad maybe. With that in mind, again, I think Black has little choice as to who he can play at centre-half.
Safety first is where Black has to go. He has to produce a base to work from.
The last line is where you're going wrong but also on the right track, yes he has to create a base to build from but that has to include the fans and he's done nothing but burn bridges in that regard. I don't know why you're defending him but, in my opinion, you're trying too hard, he's a caretaker who will be fucked off by the summer his sole job should have been to try to do what he could to take the sting out of the relegation and get the fans back onside and looking at a positive start to next season. Picking the team he has with so many players with no future here is just like putting pause on and trying to limp to the line, after the season we've had that's not the right approach and the vast majority of people on here can see that.
Aside from that when you can't defend for shit trying to create a base by being defensively solid just doesn't work.
Final point, Bacuna has made it far more clear than Okore that he wants to leave and yet you support him being in the team whilst saying Okore has no place near the first team, do you not see the hypocrisy in that?
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Okore has refused to play and Bacuna hasn't. No hypocrisy there. He may not be great but he's no worse than most of what we have.
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Okore has refused to play and Bacuna hasn't. No hypocrisy there. He may not be great but he's no worse than most of what we have.
Best of a bad bunch at the back...but still pretty mediocre. (Okore that is)
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To be fair to him what Okore actually did is unknown. According to Black it was to refuse to sit on the bench because he wanted to play in the starting line up. According to Okore this is not true.
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Safety first is where Black has to go. He has to produce a base to work from.
He's tried this and can't find a way of making it work with the players available. You think he should try it again for the remainder of the season. To what end? It doesn't show a new manager anything. Playing Grealish, Traore, Lyden, et al might be more enlightening.
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We've only heard one side of the story and that is from Black none of us know what was said and in what context, what I do know is that whenever he plays he appears to give one hundred percent which is more that the other centre backs.
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And what if without those 4 or 5 players we see a bit of improvement rather than a total collapse? It's not as if it's guaranteed it will be three 8-0 defeats. Maybe one or two youngsters will step up, put a marker down to be included next season. What I will say is if we continue picking those 4 or 5 players we'll continue to have a 'toxic' atmosphere', we'll almost certainly finish the season with 13 straight defeats. To me we have more to potentially gain than lose.
You could certainly start by binning Richards and Lescott who seem to be the targets for most of the stress relief.
That would however entail bringing Okore back into the fold and pairing him with Clark, which I still think has been our best pairing over the last 2 seasons. Yes damning with faint praise. That still leaves you with 3 subs to try and do something with as the game progresses, and shifts 2 of the problem people out for players who aren't green, naive or as easily cowed as the youngsters he's worried about.
Okay, let's say they're binned. Okore isn't going to get selected and that seems fair enough - whichever way you think you blame should fall for him being dropped - Clark was injured last week and Baker is on loan. So, for the next game, or even the game against Southampton would you have started with Toner and one of Lescott or Richards? For me that would be unfair on Toner - a player that has hardly warranted a mention to be included int he first team up until now.
I'd missed that Clark was injured.
No I wouldn't start Toner for exactly the reasons you mention, which is I why I suggested binning 2 of the biggest culprits off without having to drop kids into the shitstorm.
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So if you don't start Toner, Clark is injured, how can you then bin Lescott and Richards? At least one has to play? And as I said Okore simply is out of the equation. So, again, what options were open to Black at centre-half last Saturday?
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So if you don't start Toner, Clark is injured, how can you then bin Lescott and Richards? At least one has to play? And as I said Okore simply is out of the equation. So, again, what options were open to Black at centre-half last Saturday?
A cone?
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Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.
I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.
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Okore has refused to play and Bacuna hasn't. No hypocrisy there. He may not be great but he's no worse than most of what we have.
Okore has stated that he would like to stay, even in the 2nd tier, as long as he can get game-time. Bacuna has expressed a very clear desire to eff off.
FWIW, Black seems to be a complete waste of time, with very little intelligence or empathy. As several above have said he seems to have missed the point that his best CV-building approach would have been to have brought some harmony to the club; instead of which he has exacerbated matters with team selections and press comments designed to alienate the fans.
As far as selection is concerned, Green, Davies and Lyden at the very least could have been given some game-time. Had Black shown some nous, he'd have realised that playing som of the youth players would have reduced the booing and generated some positive support for an otherwise-desperate environment.
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So if you don't start Toner, Clark is injured, how can you then bin Lescott and Richards? At least one has to play? And as I said Okore simply is out of the equation. So, again, what options were open to Black at centre-half last Saturday?
A cone?
A scarecrow.
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Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.
I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.
But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.
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Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.
I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.
But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.
Okore disputes that
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Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.
I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.
But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.
Okore disputes that
I know. And if it comes out that he has been dropped by the manager and he's lied about refusing to play then I'm sure the player, his agent, and the PFA will be all over it. I also reckon that Black will make himself nigh on unemployable. Given that his usual job is either a s a coach, or as a number 2 - and for those that have played the game a number 2s main role is to be the laugh in training be the players' mate. On a matchday he'll cajole but be your mate or have an avuncular position. He's the bridge to the manager. You can be afraid of the manager or his reaction but never the number 2 who is the approachable one. On everything. To lie means his reputation in the game will be in tatters. No player will trust him and that kind of stain will not shift.
I tend to believe his side more than Okore's but fully accept that I could be wrong.
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But the key thing is that the situation with Okore only exists because of Black deciding that playing Clark out of position on the right side of the pairing to accommodate Lescott starting. To then say he has no choice in selection is just plain wrong, he made a choice and created a situation where a player the fans like is out of the equation and 2 players who the fans want out of the club had to play. To diminish his responsibility in those events makes most of the rest of your argument look forced.
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When you're a professional in whatever field you do not simply say you refuse to
But the key thing is that the situation with Okore only exists because of Black deciding that playing Clark out of position on the right side of the pairing to accommodate Lescott starting. To then say he has no choice in selection is just plain wrong, he made a choice and created a situation where a player the fans like is out of the equation and 2 players who the fans want out of the club had to play. To diminish his responsibility in those events makes most of the rest of your argument look forced.
The choice was Okore's and he chose not to play. Its a 50/50 call whether he should have been playing up to then but he was dropped. Players get dropped it happens. We don't know what was said behind the scenes or how we approached training but what we do know is that okore was dropped for poor performances and apparently refused to then play in the first team. I cannot find one manager who has picked a player at any level who have said they won't play and then he is immediately picked following that. Black had little realistic choice last Saturday to say otherwise is just wrong.
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I have some sympathy for Okore, and none for Black because he has proved time and time again that he is a fukin idiot.
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Tactics Tim played Sanchez at centre back pre season. He was useless.
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Scary suggestion in the Mirror that Pearson will keep this complete donkey on. Can't think of anything worse at the moment.
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Yeah just saw that, be afraid, be very afraid
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So, he has gone off Powell now.
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He has done dreadfully when it comes to trying to get the team and the supporters closer together and that's purely down to his team selection.
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He has done dreadfully when it comes to trying to get the team and the supporters closer together and that's purely down to his team selection.
And surely must mean he can't stay on at the club after this season.
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Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.
I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.
But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.
If we're playing "what would you do in Black's shoes" it does.
I think the man's a bigger cock than Sherwood and I can't think of bigger insult than that.
Whatever's gone on, there is as they say 2 sides to every story and the truth is often somewhere in the middle.
Unless Okore has turned round and said no way under any circumstances am I sitting on the bench then there's room for manoeuvre and compromise. As you say elsewhere, that should be a natural part of Black's skill set, so either Okore was so militant that there was no chance of sorting things out or Black has for whatever reason, ascerting his authority as numero uno maybe, blown the whole thing out of all proportion.
So yes I'm in Black's shoes and I'm bringing Okore in from the cold, because it's within my power to do that, unlike Clark who's injured and out of the picture.
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Black has no - that's zilch - credibility and does not warrant a role as assistant here.
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So ViD you'd allow the manager's authority to be undermined even though as you say we don't know what's happened fully? That would be outrageous and pounced on by every chancer in the team. It would leave him sitting as a dead duck with no authority or respect in the dressing room. For the first time in a long time it appears that they guy picking the team will not put up with dissent in the media, wasters, and those whose attitude he is questioning. That has my 100 % support and approval.
Just because you may like Okore the fact is that he was dropped for playing poorly and the is at odds with the manager. It's not about being the bigger person or bringing someone in from the cold. It's about Black laying down a code of conduct that Okore broke.
It's not as if we're desperate for Okore to be in the team so maybe a period of quiet reflection may do him some good. I really am amazed that anyone would countenance any possible challenge to the manager's authority.
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As far as selection is concerned, Green, Davies and Lyden at the very least could have been given some game-time. Had Black shown some nous, he'd have realised that playing som of the youth players would have reduced the booing and generated some positive support for an otherwise-desperate environment.
He's given Lyden and Toner game time, and he's called out Gabby. I don't think ge's the incompetent that some people are making out.
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So ViD you'd allow the manager's authority to be undermined even though as you say we don't know what's happened fully? That would be outrageous and pounced on by every chancer in the team. It would leave him sitting as a dead duck with no authority or respect in the dressing room. For the first time in a long time it appears that they guy picking the team will not put up with dissent in the media, wasters, and those whose attitude he is questioning. That has my 100 % support and approval.
Just because you may like Okore the fact is that he was dropped for playing poorly and the is at odds with the manager. It's not about being the bigger person or bringing someone in from the cold. It's about Black laying down a code of conduct that Okore broke.
It's not as if we're desperate for Okore to be in the team so maybe a period of quiet reflection may do him some good. I really am amazed that anyone would countenance my possible challenge to the manager's authority.
If he's stupid enough to play Lescot and Richards, leaving a fit Okore on the bench then he deserves all the abuse he gets. I don't blame Okore from asking what he's got to do to get a game.
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So ViD you'd allow the manager's authority to be undermined even though as you say we don't know what's happened fully? That would be outrageous and pounced on by every chancer in the team. It would leave him sitting as a dead duck with no authority or respect in the dressing room. For the first time in a long time it appears that they guy picking the team will not put up with dissent in the media, wasters, and those whose attitude he is questioning. That has my 100 % support and approval.
Just because you may like Okore the fact is that he was dropped for playing poorly and the is at odds with the manager. It's not about being the bigger person or bringing someone in from the cold. It's about Black laying down a code of conduct that Okore broke.
It's not as if we're desperate for Okore to be in the team so maybe a period of quiet reflection may do him some good. I really am amazed that anyone would countenance my possible challenge to the manager's authority.
You say though peter that for the first time we have someone picking the team who will not put up with wasters but that's the problem people have, he still is. I guess it depends on your interpretation of the word 'wasters'. For me you don't have to be seen toking on a shisha pipe to be classed as one.
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Eric Black was entrusted with, and failed to protect, a task of getting to the end of the worst season for a generation without doing more damage to the club's shattered relations with its supporters. Whether or not Okore does or does not play is a miniscule detail compared with the outrage and hostility directed towards the owner and the hardcore of the non performers in the team. It could easily take ten years to restore trust in the club by the fans after what we have experienced under the ownership of Randy Lerner.
Eric Black has approached his caretaker responsibilities like Lambert or McLeish would have done. Straight, mainstream "We go again". Not a spark or a glimmer of flexibility or imagination. Not even the slightest nod in the direction of trying to prevent rigor mortis setting into the team. Any fleeting acknowledgement of the fans' years of pain has been insincere and patronising.
Eric Black had the chance to open the door and let the elephant out of the room and he has not even tried to do it. He probably is too stupid to know that the elephant is there.
The elephant in the room is the fans' anger. Open your eyes Eric and see the banners and the placards. Open your ears and hear the players being booed.
As has already been said, if we have a home 0-0 against Rotherham in the first three games it will all kick off again in the crowd. It should not. We all know that but the damage to fan relations is so deep it has to be addressed specifically. Not " we only have to nick a one nil and they will soon shut up".
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Agree totally Brian, he has continued to play players that have created an atmosphere at Villa Park that is toxic, if (a) They got us here so they deserve the abuse or (b) I have no other options. He is showing how far out of his depth he is managing Aston Villa.
We have had the seasons to end all seasons for absolute crapness, so he is given the task of playing out the games till we finish at Arsenal away, a clean sheet to try any tactics that would offer a glimmer of hope, to put players onto the pitch even if they are not up to the task, that will show effort, care for the shirt on their back, a willingness to earn what goes into their bank accounts each month, to turn the boos even into accepted silence and he has totally bottled it. The thought of Pearson does not fill me with much hope, but the thought of Pearson and this absolute bottler fill me with dread.
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So ViD you'd allow the manager's authority to be undermined even though as you say we don't know what's happened fully? That would be outrageous and pounced on by every chancer in the team. It would leave him sitting as a dead duck with no authority or respect in the dressing room. For the first time in a long time it appears that they guy picking the team will not put up with dissent in the media, wasters, and those whose attitude he is questioning. That has my 100 % support and approval.
Just because you may like Okore the fact is that he was dropped for playing poorly and the is at odds with the manager. It's not about being the bigger person or bringing someone in from the cold. It's about Black laying down a code of conduct that Okore broke.
It's not as if we're desperate for Okore to be in the team so maybe a period of quiet reflection may do him some good. I really am amazed that anyone would countenance my possible challenge to the manager's authority.
Because I'd have brought Okore back in.
In the absence of Clark, I'd have settled for ditching Richards and playing Lescott along side, as that pairing has looked probably our second best pairing over the last 18 months.
I'm talking about what I'd have done. Not what could or couldn't be achieved within the straitjacket Black has tied himself up in.
But what you would do is beside the point. Okore has made himself unavailable for selection. Saying you'd pick him doesn't change the reality of the situation.
If we're playing "what would you do in Black's shoes" it does.
I think the man's a bigger cock than Sherwood and I can't think of bigger insult than that.
Whatever's gone on, there is as they say 2 sides to every story and the truth is often somewhere in the middle.
Unless Okore has turned round and said no way under any circumstances am I sitting on the bench then there's room for manoeuvre and compromise. As you say elsewhere, that should be a natural part of Black's skill set, so either Okore was so militant that there was no chance of sorting things out or Black has for whatever reason, ascerting his authority as numero uno maybe, blown the whole thing out of all proportion.
So yes I'm in Black's shoes and I'm bringing Okore in from the cold, because it's within my power to do that, unlike Clark who's injured and out of the picture.
Nigel Spink suggested on WM the other night that there is more to the story than we are aware of. He is mates with Black I think form their time together at the rags.
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There's bound to be more to the story and I hope it doesn't come out. We can do without it. leave it there and move on until the end of the season. the player and manager need to sit down and clear the air and move on. But, for now, he's dropped.
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Eric Black was entrusted with, and failed to protect, a task of getting to the end of the worst season for a generation without doing more damage to the club's shattered relations with its supporters. Whether or not Okore does or does not play is a miniscule detail compared with the outrage and hostility directed towards the owner and the hardcore of the non performers in the team. It could easily take ten years to restore trust in the club by the fans after what we have experienced under the ownership of Randy Lerner.
Eric Black has approached his caretaker responsibilities like Lambert or McLeish would have done. Straight, mainstream "We go again". Not a spark or a glimmer of flexibility or imagination. Not even the slightest nod in the direction of trying to prevent rigor mortis setting into the team. Any fleeting acknowledgement of the fans' years of pain has been insincere and patronising.
Eric Black had the chance to open the door and let the elephant out of the room and he has not even tried to do it. He probably is too stupid to know that the elephant is there.
The elephant in the room is the fans' anger. Open your eyes Eric and see the banners and the placards. Open your ears and hear the players being booed.
As has already been said, if we have a home 0-0 against Rotherham in the first three games it will all kick off again in the crowd. It should not. We all know that but the damage to fan relations is so deep it has to be addressed specifically. Not " we only have to nick a one nil and they will soon shut up".
Exactly this . I only wonder if black is being instructed and carrying out orders as a yes man as he's a coach and certainly no manager. He'll be out in the summer months and maybe ,just maybe, he's just holding the forte so to speak. What is extremely failing is his lack of fans and supporters diusgruntledness and he merely seems a fall guy puppet who then looks like he doesn't care coz the deep rooted problems haven't and won't be addressed until summer/ new owners
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He will finish his Villa managerial career with a 0% win percentage. Richly deserved.
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Eric old boy, I agree with your wife. You shouldn't have taken the job.
She was joking apparently. I mean it
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Eric, you chose to do the job, you get paid, shut the fuck up
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More and more negative by the week.
I cant believe I am calling for the head of an interim manager but christ this guy is worse than Carver was for Newcastle, at least he LIKED the club he worked for. Eric just cant stand us.
Get positive or get out Eric.
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When I think of Eric 'Ray of fucking sunshine' Black, I think of this:
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He had an impossible job. He has taken over a dysfunctional squad, team in feefall and fans in revolt. He can do no more than damage limitation.
He has put Gabby on a fitness programme - as many here would have wanted him too. He has decided not to accept dissent from Okore. People talk time and again about the squad being too powerful and taking the piss out of the manager, yet you would want him to roll over to a player who refused to be on the bench? That is double standards, whatever your thoughts about the respective merits of the available players. Surely he should be applauded for taking a tough stance with these players which is exactly what people have been calling for.
Yes the performances have been poor and the selections un-inspiring. However, I think not chucking in the kids for the relegation game was a valid decision. Being cautious about putting kids into the curreent toxic atmosphere is also a rational decision whether you agree with it or not. Even so, he has played Lyden and Toner and others may get a chance before the end of the season.
We have pretty much the worst team in living memory, a squad in disarray, boardroom in turmoil and a fan revolt. Just what on earth did you expect Eric Black to do to turn all that round? And don't just say play the kids - that may be your personal view, but there are valid reasons for not doing so. He probably isn't allowed to play Traore for contractual reasons.
In my view he has had an impossible job. The best he can do is conduct himself with dignity and steer us home. I'm not saying he is a good manager or coach, but the judgments passed on him for what he has done are remarkably unfair.
Edit - furthermore, Garde always gets a lot of sympathy, decent man, dealt a bad hand, will go on to better things etc etc. He had far more opportunity to turn things round and failed. Picked similarly poor teams and presided over equally poor performances. Yet, because he sounds intelligent so people give him slack. That's fair enough - I agree his hands were tied and it was a difficult job. But why all the venom for Black who had a harder job and has done no worse?
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He had an impossible job. He has taken over a dysfunctional squad, team in feefall and fans in revolt. He can do no more than damage limitation.
He has put Gabby on a fitness programme - as many here would have wanted him too. He has decided not to accept dissent from Okore. People talk time and again about the squad being too powerful and taking the piss out of the manager, yet you would want him to roll over to a player who refused to be on the bench? That is double standards, whatever your thoughts about the respective merits of the available players. Surely he should be applauded for taking a tough stance with these players which is exactly what people have been calling for.
Yes the performances have been poor and the selections un-inspiring. However, I think not chucking in the kids for the relegation game was a valid decision. Being cautious about putting kids into the curreent toxic atmosphere is also a rational decision whether you agree with it or not. Even so, he has played Lyden and Toner and others may get a chance before the end of the season.
We have pretty much the worst team in living memory, a squad in disarray, boardroom in turmoil and a fan revolt. Just what on earth did you expect Eric Black to do to turn all that round? And don't just say play the kids - that may be your personal view, but there are valid reasons for not doing so. He probably isn't allowed to play Traore for contractual reasons.
In my view he has had an impossible job. The best he can do is conduct himself with dignity and steer us home. I'm not saying he is a good manager or coach, but the judgments passed on him for what he has done are remarkably unfair.
You've misunderstood the problem in your very first line, I've highlighted the important bits. He can't help with the squad, that's true, and he can't suddenly make us a good team but he can avoid pissing the fans off even more and yet he's seemingly gone out of his way to do just that. Bacuna and Lescott are openly being booed by their own fans and yet he refuses to take either out of the team, Ayew is the one player that most fans believe has given a decent account of himself so in the last game when he was looking easily our best player he subs him off after an hour. No one expects him to turn it around but he doesn't have to come out with shit about ignoring fans because his 35 years in the game means he knows better than them. He seems to have decided that antagonising the fans is something he can and should do.
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I think it's a tough one regarding his team selection, it does piss me off that the players we blame are still getting picked, but at the same time if he doesn't pick them, (except that oaf richardson) we are 100% stuck with them, so what should he do?
Weigh it up I say he's gotta play these buffoons to lower our chances of having to keep them here next season, and possibly beyond.
He's doing alright for me.
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He had an impossible job. He has taken over a dysfunctional squad, team in feefall and fans in revolt. He can do no more than damage limitation.
He has put Gabby on a fitness programme - as many here would have wanted him too. He has decided not to accept dissent from Okore. People talk time and again about the squad being too powerful and taking the piss out of the manager, yet you would want him to roll over to a player who refused to be on the bench? That is double standards, whatever your thoughts about the respective merits of the available players. Surely he should be applauded for taking a tough stance with these players which is exactly what people have been calling for.
Yes the performances have been poor and the selections un-inspiring. However, I think not chucking in the kids for the relegation game was a valid decision. Being cautious about putting kids into the curreent toxic atmosphere is also a rational decision whether you agree with it or not. Even so, he has played Lyden and Toner and others may get a chance before the end of the season.
We have pretty much the worst team in living memory, a squad in disarray, boardroom in turmoil and a fan revolt. Just what on earth did you expect Eric Black to do to turn all that round? And don't just say play the kids - that may be your personal view, but there are valid reasons for not doing so. He probably isn't allowed to play Traore for contractual reasons.
In my view he has had an impossible job. The best he can do is conduct himself with dignity and steer us home. I'm not saying he is a good manager or coach, but the judgments passed on him for what he has done are remarkably unfair.
You've misunderstood the problem in your very first line, I've highlighted the important bits. He can't help with the squad, that's true, and he can't suddenly make us a good team but he can avoid pissing the fans off even more and yet he's seemingly gone out of his way to do just that. Bacuna and Lescott are openly being booed by their own fans and yet he refuses to take either out of the team, Ayew is the one player that most fans believe has given a decent account of himself so in the last game when he was looking easily our best player he subs him off after an hour. No one expects him to turn it around but he doesn't have to come out with shit about ignoring fans because his 35 years in the game means he knows better than them. He seems to have decided that antagonising the fans is something he can and should do.
Would he not also be chastised if he were seen to "pander" the terraces and pick a unrecognisable, inexperienced team. He obviously has some ambition himself so would want to pick what he thought was the strongest team.
A fuller assessment will be made in pre season once the Manager (whoever that is) knows which players are to be off loaded or stay (Whoever that is) and sees the budget to buy new (Whatever that is). He then can assess the younger players to see if they are ready to step up
A complete fresh slate is required - that cannot happen until the end of the season
Just want this shit over now so we can look forward
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not totally sure why he is talking about Toner in terms of playing for Man u ??
He really knows how to charm the natives :-\
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not totally sure why he is talking about Toner in terms of playing for Man u ??
He really knows how to charm the natives :-\
When did he say that? He's probably assuming that because the lad is Irish he falls into the stereotypical Irish football fan being a Manure supporter with aspirations to play for them.
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not totally sure why he is talking about Toner in terms of playing for Man u ??
He really knows how to charm the natives :-\
When did he say that? He's probably assuming that because the lad is Irish he falls into the stereotypical Irish football fan being a Manure supporter with aspirations to play for them.
In his press conference , when asked about the career of Toner , He thinks he will have a good career, but not sure he will play for Man United. It was a throw away comment but it doesnt help him or us
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He had an impossible job. He has taken over a dysfunctional squad, team in feefall and fans in revolt. He can do no more than damage limitation.
He has put Gabby on a fitness programme - as many here would have wanted him too. He has decided not to accept dissent from Okore. People talk time and again about the squad being too powerful and taking the piss out of the manager, yet you would want him to roll over to a player who refused to be on the bench? That is double standards, whatever your thoughts about the respective merits of the available players. Surely he should be applauded for taking a tough stance with these players which is exactly what people have been calling for.
Yes the performances have been poor and the selections un-inspiring. However, I think not chucking in the kids for the relegation game was a valid decision. Being cautious about putting kids into the curreent toxic atmosphere is also a rational decision whether you agree with it or not. Even so, he has played Lyden and Toner and others may get a chance before the end of the season.
We have pretty much the worst team in living memory, a squad in disarray, boardroom in turmoil and a fan revolt. Just what on earth did you expect Eric Black to do to turn all that round? And don't just say play the kids - that may be your personal view, but there are valid reasons for not doing so. He probably isn't allowed to play Traore for contractual reasons.
In my view he has had an impossible job. The best he can do is conduct himself with dignity and steer us home. I'm not saying he is a good manager or coach, but the judgments passed on him for what he has done are remarkably unfair.
You've misunderstood the problem in your very first line, I've highlighted the important bits. He can't help with the squad, that's true, and he can't suddenly make us a good team but he can avoid pissing the fans off even more and yet he's seemingly gone out of his way to do just that. Bacuna and Lescott are openly being booed by their own fans and yet he refuses to take either out of the team, Ayew is the one player that most fans believe has given a decent account of himself so in the last game when he was looking easily our best player he subs him off after an hour. No one expects him to turn it around but he doesn't have to come out with shit about ignoring fans because his 35 years in the game means he knows better than them. He seems to have decided that antagonising the fans is something he can and should do.
So, again, drop Lescott for who? No point saying okore because he wasn't available. And Bacuna, yes arguably drop him, but for who? What is the sytem, how do you know how the players are going in training? Adama gets back to fitness and so fqar this season then gets crocked again. Why risk him now? Give him some time, yes, build up his stamina through training and then throw him in if need be. He may be due a start, depends how he's performing in training. But if he's not playing well then who does he replace him with? Replace Adama with Bacuna - that's go down well. With Gil? He's no better. The fans can't dictate selection policy.
As for the Ayew substitution, yes on the face of it it looked strange but there clearly was a reason behind it. it is utterly bizarre and nonsensical to suggest he's doing it to antagonise fans. That's almost Newcastle fan type conspiracy delusion.
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I'll sum him up. He's like the shit supply teacher who comes in to an unruly class and they couldn't give two fucks about anything he says, completely pointless and waste of time, just filling a gap.
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not totally sure why he is talking about Toner in terms of playing for Man u ??
He really knows how to charm the natives :-\
When did he say that? He's probably assuming that because the lad is Irish he falls into the stereotypical Irish football fan being a Manure supporter with aspirations to play for them.
In his press conference , when asked about the career of Toner , He thinks he will have a good career, but not sure he will play for Man United. It was a throw away comment but it doesnt help him or us
It was a kind of, I'm pretty sure he will have a career in football but I don't know if he will be good enough to play for the likes of... Pretty innocuous stuff unless you're looking for stuff to pick on.
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He had an impossible job.
Disagree. He came in for a few games in a no pressure situation. He could have chosen to tray and give the whole place a lift, but instead went safety first and made some bizarre and infuriating team selections.
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He had an impossible job.
Disagree. He came in for a few games in a no pressure situation. He could have chosen to tray and give the whole place a lift, but instead went safety first and made some bizarre and infuriating team selections.
As stated there are rational reasons for his team selections. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong.
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He had an impossible job.
Disagree. He came in for a few games in a no pressure situation. He could have chosen to tray and give the whole place a lift, but instead went safety first and made some bizarre and infuriating team selections.
As stated there are rational reasons for his team selections. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong.
No, but 4 defeats in 4 means he's clearly not right either.
So if we're going to lose lets do it in a way that the fans can at least see a point to, richardson is out of contract in a few weeks, why play him when we know he has no future here? The same can be argued for all of the other players who the fans don't want, by picking them he makes his own job harder, that'as why people are angry with him.
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I've been thinking that if I had been in the game a long time and had been brought up with iron ethos of discipline and effort, I would be tempted to hang those that can't be bothered out to dry and force them to endure the toxicity.
The players can hear it, make no mistake.
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I hope you are right Ads but I suspect Black is a throwback to the "us and them" mindset of professional footballers towards fans.
Hillsborough has had me thinking all over again how abused and degraded football followers have always been in the media and in the corridors of power - political corridors and football corridors.
Black may be old school who, like O'Neill has a very low opinion of those who only watch the game. MON is on record with his statement about about fans "giving you dog's abuse". Black sees it as his duty to support his players and oppose those who criticise them. He acknowledges no duty to the fans nor accepts that criticism of the players is very much deserved.
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That's quite astounding, to criticise Black and use Hillsborough in any context whilst criticising him. Black is bad (not sure) but hillsborough and fans (oh, Black must be bad). Come on, that was cheap.
Look, Black is the side show. he is large;y irrelevant here. We've won 3 in the league all season and 5 all told. That he is playing Bacuna or not playing Adama, or sticks with lescott, and hasn't turned to Green really isn't the issue. Its like the soldiers on the front line at the Somme arguing that the Generals are using the rickety old ladders with 4 rungs to go over the top rather than the newly made 5 runged ladders that are more fit for purpose.
3 managers the season have failed which tends to tell us that the problem is deeper than just picking this player or that player. Black is a sideshow. The anger, ire, disapproval should be aimed towards where it matters.
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He had an impossible job.
Disagree. He came in for a few games in a no pressure situation. He could have chosen to tray and give the whole place a lift, but instead went safety first and made some bizarre and infuriating team selections.
As stated there are rational reasons for his team selections. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong.
No, but 4 defeats in 4 means he's clearly not right either.
So if we're going to lose lets do it in a way that the fans can at least see a point to, richardson is out of contract in a few weeks, why play him when we know he has no future here? The same can be argued for all of the other players who the fans don't want, by picking them he makes his own job harder, that'as why people are angry with him.
That is exactly my feeling as well. We might well still have lost all our games, but I guarentee seeing the likes of Traore and Green would make the fans much easier on the team and consequently improve the atmosphere.
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You guarantee it?
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That's quite astounding, to criticise Black and use Hillsborough in any context whilst criticising him. Black is bad (not sure) but hillsborough and fans (oh, Black must be bad). Come on, that was cheap.
Look, Black is the side show. he is large;y irrelevant here. We've won 3 in the league all season and 5 all told. That he is playing Bacuna or not playing Adama, or sticks with lescott, and hasn't turned to Green really isn't the issue. Its like the soldiers on the front line at the Somme arguing that the Generals are using the rickety old ladders with 4 rungs to go over the top rather than the newly made 5 runged ladders that are more fit for purpose.
3 managers the season have failed which tends to tell us that the problem is deeper than just picking this player or that player. Black is a sideshow. The anger, ire, disapproval should be aimed towards where it matters.
I've been finding myself agreeing with you a lot lately PW.
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He had an impossible job.
Disagree. He came in for a few games in a no pressure situation. He could have chosen to tray and give the whole place a lift, but instead went safety first and made some bizarre and infuriating team selections.
As stated there are rational reasons for his team selections. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong.
No, but 4 defeats in 4 means he's clearly not right either.
So if we're going to lose lets do it in a way that the fans can at least see a point to, richardson is out of contract in a few weeks, why play him when we know he has no future here? The same can be argued for all of the other players who the fans don't want, by picking them he makes his own job harder, that'as why people are angry with him.
That is exactly my feeling as well. We might well still have lost all our games, but I guarentee seeing the likes of Traore and Green would make the fans much easier on the team and consequently improve the atmosphere.
I can pretty much guarantee if we were losing by a hatful and Traore was losing the ball for a 4th or 5th time in the game the crowd would have turned on him too.
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I hope you are right Ads but I suspect Black is a throwback to the "us and them" mindset of professional footballers towards fans.
Hillsborough has had me thinking all over again how abused and degraded football followers have always been in the media and in the corridors of power - political corridors and football corridors.
Black may be old school who, like O'Neill has a very low opinion of those who only watch the game. MON is on record with his statement about about fans "giving you dog's abuse". Black sees it as his duty to support his players and oppose those who criticise them. He acknowledges no duty to the fans nor accepts that criticism of the players is very much deserved.
He's not supporting his players though, he's telling everyone how shit it is behind closed doors
I personally don't have a problem with this, but it's hardly siding with the players if he's openly slagging them
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Without doubt
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He had an impossible job.
Disagree. He came in for a few games in a no pressure situation. He could have chosen to tray and give the whole place a lift, but instead went safety first and made some bizarre and infuriating team selections.
As stated there are rational reasons for his team selections. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong.
No, but 4 defeats in 4 means he's clearly not right either.
So if we're going to lose lets do it in a way that the fans can at least see a point to, richardson is out of contract in a few weeks, why play him when we know he has no future here? The same can be argued for all of the other players who the fans don't want, by picking them he makes his own job harder, that'as why people are angry with him.
That is exactly my feeling as well. We might well still have lost all our games, but I guarentee seeing the likes of Traore and Green would make the fans much easier on the team and consequently improve the atmosphere.
I can pretty much guarantee if we were losing by a hatful and Traore was losing the ball for a 4th or 5th time in the game the crowd would have turned on him too.
Maybe, but the crowd certainly would have started the game with a better mindset. Black's selections have been dreadfully negative and have brought no success. People are always prepared to forgive more when a manager shows a bit of adventure. Black has shown none at all, when it was what the club and the fans desperately needed.
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He had an impossible job.
Disagree. He came in for a few games in a no pressure situation. He could have chosen to tray and give the whole place a lift, but instead went safety first and made some bizarre and infuriating team selections.
As stated there are rational reasons for his team selections. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong.
No, but 4 defeats in 4 means he's clearly not right either.
So if we're going to lose lets do it in a way that the fans can at least see a point to, richardson is out of contract in a few weeks, why play him when we know he has no future here? The same can be argued for all of the other players who the fans don't want, by picking them he makes his own job harder, that'as why people are angry with him.
That is exactly my feeling as well. We might well still have lost all our games, but I guarentee seeing the likes of Traore and Green would make the fans much easier on the team and consequently improve the atmosphere.
I can pretty much guarantee if we were losing by a hatful and Traore was losing the ball for a 4th or 5th time in the game the crowd would have turned on him too.
That really depends doesn't it and simplifying it down to the level that you have doesn't help anyone. If after 20 minutes he run with it 5-6 times beaten a man everytime and got 1 decent cross in but lost it the other times I think the fans would be singing his name and wondering why he hadn't started a league game before because at least we'd be seeing someone try. Ayew loses the ball a fair bit but he loses it because he's trying to make something happen and fans will respond to that.
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That's not simplifying it that's amplifying exactly what would happen when you have a crowd that want blood. Not the kids, nor Adama, but anyones. As has been said if Adama played crap the fans would have no release valve. No, "he should be playing so and so" so the atmosphere could, and I suggest would, get even more poisonous. That could have deeper more long term implications.
Whatever you think for 3 games we should circle the wagons and be positive as much as possible in our support.
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That's not simplifying it that's amplifying exactly what would happen when you have a crowd that want blood. Not the kids, nor Adama, but anyones. As has been said if Adama played crap the fans would have no release valve. No, "he should be playing so and so" so the atmosphere could, and I suggest would, get even more poisonous. That could have deeper more long term implications.
Whatever you think for 3 games we should circle the wagons and be positive as much as possible in our support.
We are just drifting (sinking more like). The manager should be looking to get something positive out of the end of season, however small. Even if it just giving a couple more youngsters their debuts. Better now than next season. Try different formations to put us more on the front foot. Anything but circle the wagons and just wait for the end of the season.
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He's simply carrying out the task his employers have set him. What else can he do? From the off I've found him to be very dour,dull, tactically inept and has absolutely no intention of appeasing the crowd. He seems about as inspirational as a pair of old carpet slippers. And he shows absolutely no affinity to the club and it's supporters. He will carry the can till the end of season then stand in line for his pay off. A fitting end to this shambolic season......
Onwards and upwards.
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Evening.
Don't know if you've tried watching this 2nd Division stuff, but I am watching now hopeful of a Middlesbrough landslide ( Blue shite of course - been singing " sh*t on the Villa since before the start) but it is really abysmal dismal stuff, giving the ball away all the time, kicking lumps out of people's heads ( that's OK when a Boro player does it ), Georgie Boateng trying to be a pundit.
It is dreadful.
It should suit us fine.
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I am NOT linking Hillsborough with Eric Black and it is not a cheap shot. I related something I am currently thinking about the way football fans have been treated by all forms of authority for as long as I can remember. I had a very long conversation with my son on this very topic and as you all know my son has been covering this story in depth. His words were the fans did not erect the fences they were crushed against.
The point, I accept, is not ideally suited for a thread devoted to Eric Black but regardless of that, my thoughts about football supporters' place in the modern game and more importantly the game's attitude to them, are sincere, valid and honestly expressed.
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It's not Eric Black's fault. As a succession of managers have found out, the team are awful. It's that simple
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It's not Eric Black's fault. As a succession of managers have found out, the team are awful. It's that simple
Losing is not his fault. However picking the most conservative team possible is. The majority of fans want to see a bit of flair and excitement in our last few games, but Black has selected teams that will lose in a boring manner and that is the issue. We have players who could, potentially, excite the fans. Now is the time to give them a shot.
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It's not Eric Black's fault. As a succession of managers have found out, the team are awful. It's that simple
Losing is not his fault. However picking the most conservative team possible is. The majority of fans want to see a bit of flair and excitement in our last few games, but Black has selected teams that will lose in a boring manner and that is the issue. We have players who could, potentially, excite the fans. Now is the time to give them a shot.
That sounds great and we would love it but which players will show flair and excitement?? Black is in exactly the same position as the others. The players picked are possibly the best available and that's why we are going down. I don't think any other manager would do any better with the awful squad we have. I feel so sad but it's a fact
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He has been given two slices of bread and a steaming pile of poo. I don't think we can criticise him for serving up a shit sandwich or telling us in his defence that he accepts it's a shit sandwich and he only had two slices of bread and a steaming pile of poo to work with. Adding in a couple of different players may give him the option to serve us shit on toast for a change, I suppose.
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He's simply carrying out the task his employers have set him. What else can he do? From the off I've found him to be very dour,dull, tactically inept and has absolutely no intention of appeasing the crowd. He seems about as inspirational as a pair of old carpet slippers. And he shows absolutely no affinity to the club and it's supporters. He will carry the can till the end of season then stand in line for his pay off. A fitting end to this shambolic season......
Onwards and upwards.
^^This^^
Plus I don't like him...
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChSgQdRW4AAjimo.jpg)
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Lol!
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It's not Eric Black's fault. As a succession of managers have found out, the team are awful. It's that simple
Black creates the toxic atmosphere by selecting players that the fans are going to jeer straight from the announcement of the team. As soon as we concede it's" you're not fit to wear the shirt". If he selected Lyden, Grealish, Traore, Veretout, Okore ( before he pissed him off), Clark, Gil, Gestede,put some of the U21's on the bench, the jeers would be stifled. We would still probably lose the game but the support would be behind them. The habitual losers he keeps selecting now are despised by the fans and now so is he.
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It's not Eric Black's fault. As a succession of managers have found out, the team are awful. It's that simple
Black creates the toxic atmosphere by selecting players that the fans are going to jeer straight from the announcement of the team. As soon as we concede it's" you're not fit to wear the shirt". If he selected Lyden, Grealish, Traore, Veretout, Okore ( before he pissed him off), Clark, Gil, Gestede,put some of the U21's on the bench, the jeers would be stifled. We would still probably lose the game but the support would be behind them. The habitual losers he keeps selecting now are despised by the fans and now so is he.
yep and he has done it again
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I have some sympathy for Black. I too cannot wait for this season to finish.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChSgQdRW4AAjimo.jpg)
No Guzan in goal, so there won't be a Jackpot win today
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2-1 up with 10 men and he takes off a Gana and puts on Sinclair. Suicide, the man's a moron.
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The ghost of Timmy stalks this man.
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He must be the biggest clown of the fucking year. When timmy makes better changes you know you're fucked
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Just the latest in a long line of 'not me, guv' idiots.
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Claudio Ranieri has a portrait of Eric Black in his attic.
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The coincidence is stunning. 2-1 up at Leicester Sherwood brings on Ayew instead of Veretout for Gil. We lose 3-2. Today Veretout stays on the bench as Black brings on Sinclair instead for Gana. We lose 3-2.
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I don't care what position Black has found himself in and the absolute crock of shit he has to work with but, that decision today showed ineptitude of the highest order. That, and Sherwood's fuckuppery against Leicester are the worst examples of out and out stupidity I have ever known from ANY Villa manager in my lifetime.
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No really we pay that fucking idiot to make decisions about football!
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2-1 up with 10 men and he takes off a Gana and puts on Sinclair. Suicide, the man's a moron.
Gana was injured and a tiring Toner desperately needed cover ahead of him.
Crap and all that Sinclair is, he is more likely to put in a shift on the left than the work shy duo of Grealish and Veretout.
would have preferred moving to 441 after the red but I dont see any fault in taking off 2 x injured players
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sinclair and bacuna on the pitch at the same time , will never work
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Mentioned at half time and the same can be said after 95 minutes, wtf is the point of playing with wingbacks who don't cross the ball. Is it ever been a consideration to play to Gestede's strengths? I really have my doubts.
I couldn't fault the effort today but those were probably the easiest 3 points we've had all season and we still manage to shoot ourselves in the foot.
As for Black's subs, why bring on Sanchez and play him out of position. He's a defensive midfielder, ideally sitting in front of the defence but Black had him in a more advanced role on the right whilst Bacuna was dropped deep to watch players run past him. If he wanted a box to box player that can chase every ball, Vertout was sitting there behind him. Work shy he ain't, Bronte.
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35 years?
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Why wont he play Veretout?
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Why wont he play Veretout?
According to Black, his pointing isn't up to much.
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no. not his pointing.......his grouting. His touting was OK though.
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Why wont he play Veretout?
According to Black, his pointing isn't up to much.
I don't give a shit if he's moonlighting as a builder. Mind you probably better fitness conditioning than at Bodymoor these days.
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Nothing wrong with Veretout's work rate. Work shy he ain't.
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Nope and I think he's a very good player.
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Black is a fukin idiot, confirmed.
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The coincidence is stunning. 2-1 up at Leicester Sherwood brings on Ayew instead of Veretout for Gil. We lose 3-2. Today Veretout stays on the bench as Black brings on Sinclair instead for Gana. We lose 3-2.
It's not just this season. Those two games define Lerner's ownership since the day MON walked out. He has hired fool after fool; held nobody to account; wasted money in the wrong areas; tightened the belt in the wrong areas. He has written the manual on how to ruin a football club.
The rot set in the minute Lerner had to start making serious decisions and every single one of those decisions has inflicted more damage on Aston Villa. From 48 to consecutive 38 pts to this mess with people like Sherwood and Black in the villa dugout making crap decisions.
Cross your fingers the days of Lerner making decisions are coming to an end. I shudder to think of what could be in the pipeline if we are not bought this summer. I have zero faith in us to turn this around so long as Lerner is connected to us.
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Black is a fukin idiot, confirmed.
Correct.
But, he has experience, 30 years of experience or whatever he said. Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes. Oscar Wilde
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Pay him off. My cat can do better than this prick.
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As I said on the post-match thread ...
As with Dim Tim at Leicester, Black has to take the rap for this. When Cissokho went, it should have been 4 at the back, with another MF coming on when subs were being made.
Shame, they played well in parts and some players were making a real effort.
He is the archetypal journeyman; not a first class manager.
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Absolutely Mr E. Trying not to get too many things wrong rather than getting the important things right. It is the way Alan Partridge would manage a team.
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My plan for next week....
Let Black leave early. Put Sid in charge, just for two games.
Play the youngsters against Newcastle. If we play the same names the atmosphere will be (rightly) negative and we will just simply lose.
Play those kids. Play Grealish, Traore, Green etc. As fans, we will be fully behind them and who knows...maybe they might be quite good. Maybe they might give us a chance not to lose a football match. Maybe they'll put in the hard yards that the others won't.
In reality, Black will pick lescott, Richards, Bacuna, Guzan and the triumphant returning hero Gabby.
We'll lose and the Geordies get to twist the knife that's been twisted so many times already this season.
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My plan for next week....
Let Black leave early. Put Sid in charge, just for two games.
Play the youngsters against Newcastle. If we play the same names the atmosphere will be (rightly) negative and we will just simply lose.
Play those kids. Play Grealish, Traore, Green etc. As fans, we will be fully behind them and who knows...maybe they might be quite good. Maybe they might give us a chance not to lose a football match. Maybe they'll put in the hard yards that the others won't.
In reality, Black will pick lescott, Richards, Bacuna, Guzan and the triumphant returning hero Gabby.
We'll lose and the Geordies get to twist the knife that's been twisted so many times already this season.
Ok, so you pay the kids.
Name me your defence for a start
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I cannot understand why he is picking such mundane functional teams all the time. He basically has free pass to entertain and make a name for himself but instead picks teams that - at best - are designed to achieve 0-0.
What reputation is he trying to maintain? What is his logic?
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This Ape has me pining for Sherwood FFS!
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My plan for next week....
Let Black leave early. Put Sid in charge, just for two games.
Play the youngsters against Newcastle. If we play the same names the atmosphere will be (rightly) negative and we will just simply lose.
Play those kids. Play Grealish, Traore, Green etc. As fans, we will be fully behind them and who knows...maybe they might be quite good. Maybe they might give us a chance not to lose a football match. Maybe they'll put in the hard yards that the others won't.
In reality, Black will pick lescott, Richards, Bacuna, Guzan and the triumphant returning hero Gabby.
We'll lose and the Geordies get to twist the knife that's been twisted so many times already this season.
Ok, so you pay the kids.
Name me your defence for a start
Not sure what your point is.
Lyden, Toner, Suliman, Borg.
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Cannae fault the lads. Check
Go again. Check
Thought they were fantastic. Check
Should have come away with something. Check.
Lost. Check.
Conceded loads. Check.
Boring as fuck team with crap substitutions. Check.
He must be Paul Lambore's shitter, thicker, duller brother.
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My plan for next week....
Let Black leave early. Put Sid in charge, just for two games.
Play the youngsters against Newcastle. If we play the same names the atmosphere will be (rightly) negative and we will just simply lose.
Play those kids. Play Grealish, Traore, Green etc. As fans, we will be fully behind them and who knows...maybe they might be quite good. Maybe they might give us a chance not to lose a football match. Maybe they'll put in the hard yards that the others won't.
In reality, Black will pick lescott, Richards, Bacuna, Guzan and the triumphant returning hero Gabby.
We'll lose and the Geordies get to twist the knife that's been twisted so many times already this season.
Ok, so you pay the kids.
Name me your defence for a start
Not sure what your point is.
Lyden, Toner, Suliman, Borg.
Oh yeah, well done
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Cannae fault the lads. Check
Go again. Check
Thought they were fantastic. Check
Should have come away with something. Check.
Lost. Check.
Conceded loads. Check.
Boring as fuck team with crap substitutions. Check.
He must be Paul Lambore's shitter, thicker, duller brother.
Thicker? Is that even possible.
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Gana needed to come off has he'd been tackled not long before and was struggling after that. I presumed he was hoping to catch them on the break by bringing Sinclair on, but yeah, a midfielder would have been the best choice.
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Cannae fault the lads. Check
Go again. Check
Thought they were fantastic. Check
Should have come away with something. Check.
Lost. Check.
Conceded loads. Check.
Boring as fuck team with crap substitutions. Check.
He must be Paul Lambore's shitter, thicker, duller brother.
Leave it out AJ: Uncle Eric's been in the game for 35 years!! Don't you know nuffink?
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My plan for next week....
Let Black leave early. Put Sid in charge, just for two games.
Play the youngsters against Newcastle. If we play the same names the atmosphere will be (rightly) negative and we will just simply lose.
Play those kids. Play Grealish, Traore, Green etc. As fans, we will be fully behind them and who knows...maybe they might be quite good. Maybe they might give us a chance not to lose a football match. Maybe they'll put in the hard yards that the others won't.
In reality, Black will pick lescott, Richards, Bacuna, Guzan and the triumphant returning hero Gabby.
We'll lose and the Geordies get to twist the knife that's been twisted so many times already this season.
Ok, so you pay the kids.
Name me your defence for a start
Not sure what your point is.
Lyden, Toner, Suliman, Borg.
Oh yeah, well done
Thanks for that, much appreciated.
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Apart from his negativity in selecting pretty much the same bunch of usless sods who got us in this mess week in week out, I don't have too much bad to say about Black.
The performances have improved slightly, but slowly (maybe by default), he handled the Gabby and Okore situations very well, and has come across as a very level headed and decent guy in interviews. I'm not going to pick fault with his tactics or subs, because the guy has been thrown into this mess,and is a caretaker manager afterall. I don't want to see him in that role after this month, but I don't think he has much to be blamed for either.
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I find some of his honesty quite refreshing actually, calling the club out for being toxic is not what we want to hear but it's the truth. His dropping of Agbonlahor, and Okore are brutal but honest, ok he is not a great manager, but he is only a stop gap, I'm more interested in who the new owner(s) and manager will be.
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
But you can't play favourites based on talent. Okore was out of the line and it would have set a bad example to give in to him. Black was quite right in how he handled it. Chances are Okore will want a move anyway, and to be fair Black gave him the option to be part of the squad and chose not to take it.
I find some of his honesty quite refreshing actually, calling the club out for being toxic is not what we want to hear but it's the truth. His dropping of Agbonlahor, and Okore are brutal but honest, ok he is not a great manager, but he is only a stop gap, I'm more interested in who the new owner(s) and manager will be.
Spot on. And those decisions and the speed in which they happen will be the main factors in how we fare next season and beyond.
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All Black has managed to do is make an awful situation worse.
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If he possessed any dignity at all, he'd change his surname to Cack.
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If he possessed any dignity at all, he'd change his surname to Cack.
I'm not sure you've completely grasped the concept of 'dignity.'
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
Nonsense. You want a player to be able to call the shots? You want a potential gabby situation whereby the manager is rendered lame by a player who can say and do what he likes with impunity? Black hasn't fucked it up at all. It's players like Okore that have.
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
Nonsense. You want a player to be able to call the shots? You want a potential gabby situation whereby the manager is rendered lame by a player who can say and do what he likes with impunity? Black hasn't fucked it up at all. It's players like Okore that have.
That depends on what happened before Okore refused to go on the bench. We do not know what was said between player and manager and over how long.
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I think auntie's post is very good. Rude, satirical and witty. Wish I had posted it.
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I think auntie's post is very good. Rude, satirical and witty. Wish I had posted it.
Awwww thanks Brian. I'll pop the cheque in the post for you first thing Tuesday. ;)
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Another sideswipe for Mr Green from Peter W.
I suggest you read Villa in Denmark's assessment of the Danish player Okore's version of events in the Danish press before rubber stamping Black's binning of a potentially valuable Villa squad member.
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
Nonsense. You want a player to be able to call the shots? You want a potential gabby situation whereby the manager is rendered lame by a player who can say and do what he likes with impunity? Black hasn't fucked it up at all. It's players like Okore that have.
That depends on what happened before Okore refused to go on the bench. We do not what was said between player and manager and over how long.
Without doubt. But the PFA would be all over this if it was a case of a manager acting badly towards the player and saying publicly that he has refused to play. He even went as far as mentioning that there was a letter and then a two week cooling off period which is the manager asking the player to reconsider. He didn't and Black took action. Despite the player saying differently it would have come out by now if Black had been bullying or lying about it.
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
Nonsense. You want a player to be able to call the shots? You want a potential gabby situation whereby the manager is rendered lame by a player who can say and do what he likes with impunity? Black hasn't fucked it up at all. It's players like Okore that have.
That depends on what happened before Okore refused to go on the bench. We do not what was said between player and manager and over how long.
Without doubt. But the PFA would be all over this if it was a case of a manager acting badly towards the player and saying publicly that he has refused to play. He even went as far as mentioning that there was a letter and then a two week cooling off period which is the manager asking the player to reconsider. He didn't and Black took action. Despite the player saying differently it would have come out by now if Black had been bullying or lying about it.
i have no idea why you think it would have come out by now, the previous bullying went on for months, and then there is the possibility of the player being told not to speak to the press by the club.
Having seen the way that Black, has managed the team and the decisions he has made, I am quite happy to believe that Okore has been treated poorly by Black.
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
Nonsense. You want a player to be able to call the shots? You want a potential gabby situation whereby the manager is rendered lame by a player who can say and do what he likes with impunity? Black hasn't fucked it up at all. It's players like Okore that have.
That depends on what happened before Okore refused to go on the bench. We do not what was said between player and manager and over how long.
Without doubt. But the PFA would be all over this if it was a case of a manager acting badly towards the player and saying publicly that he has refused to play. He even went as far as mentioning that there was a letter and then a two week cooling off period which is the manager asking the player to reconsider. He didn't and Black took action. Despite the player saying differently it would have come out by now if Black had been bullying or lying about it.
i have no idea why you think it would have come out by now, the previous bullying went on for months, and then there is the possibility of the player being told not to speak to the press by the club.
Having seen the way that Black, has managed the team and the decisions he has made, I am quite happy to believe that Okore has been treated poorly by Black.
Black hasn't been shy with being honest (a little too honest) about the state of the squad. Why would he lie about Okore? I want Black out as he's not up to the task but Premiership footballers talk out of their arse 99% of the time, with no little help from their agents in spewing bullshit. I buy Blacks version of events to be honest.
There was also the fact that Okore's agent claimed they'd asked several times for clarity from the club about next season and the club ignored them. The club then claimed they had answered his agents queries within a day or so. It is of course all absolutely fucking ludicrous and indeed someone, somewhere is talking bollocks, if not all of them. But it strikes me that if Okore hadn't gone on strike, Black has just cut off his nose to spite his face. I don't know why he'd make his difficult job even harder by refusing to play Okore and then claiming Jores refused to play.
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The punishment of Okore may well have cost us a valuable player in the fight to escape the Championship. Pure Paul Lambert clunk handedness in my opinion. I don't expect Black to win games but I do expect him not to fuck up the squad any more than it is fucked up already.
Nonsense. You want a player to be able to call the shots? You want a potential gabby situation whereby the manager is rendered lame by a player who can say and do what he likes with impunity? Black hasn't fucked it up at all. It's players like Okore that have.
That depends on what happened before Okore refused to go on the bench. We do not what was said between player and manager and over how long.
Without doubt. But the PFA would be all over this if it was a case of a manager acting badly towards the player and saying publicly that he has refused to play. He even went as far as mentioning that there was a letter and then a two week cooling off period which is the manager asking the player to reconsider. He didn't and Black took action. Despite the player saying differently it would have come out by now if Black had been bullying or lying about it.
i have no idea why you think it would have come out by now, the previous bullying went on for months, and then there is the possibility of the player being told not to speak to the press by the club.
Having seen the way that Black, has managed the team and the decisions he has made, I am quite happy to believe that Okore has been treated poorly by Black.
Black hasn't been shy with being honest (a little too honest) about the state of the squad. Why would he lie about Okore? I want Black out as he's not up to the task but Premiership footballers talk out of their arse 99% of the time, with no little help from their agents in spewing bullshit. I buy Blacks version of events to be honest.
There was also the fact that Okore's agent claimed they'd asked several times for clarity from the club about next season and the club ignored them. The club then claimed they had answered his agents queries within a day or so. It is of course all absolutely fucking ludicrous and indeed someone, somewhere is talking bollocks, if not all of them. But it strikes me that if Okore hadn't gone on strike, Black has just cut off his nose to spite his face. I don't know why he'd make his difficult job even harder by refusing to play Okore and then claiming Jores refused to play.
But if the best defence you can give is 'why would Black lie' then why isn't 'why would Okore lie' an equally valid reply?
One of them is almost certainly leaving the club this summer, the other might leave but might have to stay regardless of what he wants. Add to that the fact that no one has ever had a bad word to say about Okore's attitude and you start to see that it might not be so wise to just believe Black.
On top of that, in counter to the 'why would he lie' defence, why wouldn't he? He's going to leave us having done nothing of value to us in terms of performance so he's going to be looking for things to use as excuses for that and to explain why he had an impossible task. Having a player too unfit to play, another refusing to be in the squad and the fans booing at the team before the game has kicked off are all things that give him excuses, if he wants another job it makes sense to get those all lined up.
I'm with Brian, calling out players that the fans won't accept getting a second chance (like Gabby) is one thing but pissing off the few players that the fans like is just making our summer so much more difficult, especially by doing it in a way that turns fans against a player. He never needed to make Okore's absence public, all that does is drive the wedge in deeper and who benefits?
You carry on defending him if you like but you're defending a guy who clearly doesn't give the merest hint of a fuck about the club or the fans.
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I'm with Brian on this, as well, although I reckon a breakdown in communication is at the root of the problem. Black seems to have had zero media training, and has been dropped right in it.
I put it to you that Eric Black is a loose cannon on the sinking vessel which has been holed amidships, and damned if the bugger isn't firing at the lifeboats.
Anyway, here is a video interlude to raise our spirits as we sink to the bottom of the dark and the rolling sea.
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Okore is known in Denmark for no-nonsense, hard-working non-complaining player. I find it hard to believe that he suddenly changed character. This sounds like a way of getting rid of a paycheck next season.
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I don't suppose no-one really know's what has happened with Okore. I think Black dealt with the Gabby situation very well. His team selections have been baffling though and that's my only gripe with him really.
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As baffling as the previous three incumbents at least.
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Okore is known in Denmark for no-nonsense, hard-working non-complaining player. I find it hard to believe that he suddenly changed character. This sounds like a way of getting rid of a paycheck next season.
I thought he went on strike to get his move here? Or am I thinking of someone else?
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Okore is known in Denmark for no-nonsense, hard-working non-complaining player. I find it hard to believe that he suddenly changed character. This sounds like a way of getting rid of a paycheck next season.
I thought he went on strike to get his move here? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Your thinking of Benteke.
Okore's move came out of the blue at the start of the summer. If'd he'd been striking, it would have involved refusing to go to the beach or getting on the plane.
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Okore is known in Denmark for no-nonsense, hard-working non-complaining player. I find it hard to believe that he suddenly changed character. This sounds like a way of getting rid of a paycheck next season.
As with many players, perhaps he's being badly advised by his agent. And as we all know, almost every Agent is probably pond scum.
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So using Paul e's line of argument : fans think Gabby is bad = Gabby is bad
Fans like Okore= Black's an idiot
What seems to be indisputable is that Okore has spoken to Black about not playing which is fair enough. There also seems to be no dispute that Black then gave a two week cooling off period from whatever it was that Okore said. That also hasn't been disputed. So the question is what happened next. Any player that has questioned the manager's authority regarding picking the team so he was always going to have to sit on the bench at best following talks and/or the "cooling off " period.
It's likely that Olore has indicated that his position hasn't changed and Black will have taken the line that if you don't like it (being on the bench) then you're dropped. He may or may not have specifically said "I'll never play again", but if he's refused to sit on the bench because he thinks he should be playing that's tantamount to refusing to play.
In this fuck up of a season the last thing we should be supporting is any situation where a player believes he has the power, however warranted he may be in wanting to start, so Black was 100% right.
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So using Paul e's line of argument : fans think Gabby is bad = Gabby is bad
Fans like Okore= Black's an idiot
What seems to be indisputable is that Okore has spoken to Black about not playing which is fair enough. There also seems to be no dispute that Black then gave a two week cooling off period from whatever it was that Okore said. That also hasn't been disputed. So the question is what happened next. Any player that has questioned the manager's authority regarding picking the team so he was always going to have to sit on the bench at best following talks and/or the "cooling off " period.
It's likely that Olore has indicated that his position hasn't changed and Black will have taken the line that if you don't like it (being on the bench) then you're dropped. He may or may not have specifically said "I'll never play again", but if he's refused to sit on the bench because he thinks he should be playing that's tantamount to refusing to play.
In this fuck up of a season the last thing we should be supporting is any situation where a player believes he has the power, however warranted he may be in wanting to start, so Black was 100% right.
That was an interesting way of concluding he was 100% right. That sounds like "Black is always right"
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all a tad irrelevant surely as Black's going to be history in a few weeks time?
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all a tad irrelevant surely as Black's going to be history in a few weeks time?
Yeah - I am surprised I even care anymore what current regime does - though preventing them doing more damage would be nice. There is always room for more fuckups
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Okore is known in Denmark for no-nonsense, hard-working non-complaining player. I find it hard to believe that he suddenly changed character. This sounds like a way of getting rid of a paycheck next season.
I thought he went on strike to get his move here? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Your thinking of Benteke.
Okore's move came out of the blue at the start of the summer. If'd he'd been striking, it would have involved refusing to go to the beach or getting on the plane.
Ok, my mistake. I knew it was someone we signed.
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Why would Black need to write a letter?
It's not like he does not see the bloke every day, maybe that's what is wrong, instead of a team talk they all get a letter through the post.
Dear Brad
You will be in goal today, that is the white thing with nets tied to it, they are normally found at either end of the pitch, good luck. Eric 35 years and counting.
Dear Leandro
You will be pleased to know that you have retained your place as midfield Dynamo and playmaker.
Great to see you at the club last night but you really should not have paid for all of those dances.
Lots of love and not a word to Mrs Eric.
Ps ignore the boo boys they don't even know the words to milkshake.
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So using Paul e's line of argument : fans think Gabby is bad = Gabby is bad
Fans like Okore= Black's an idiot
What seems to be indisputable is that Okore has spoken to Black about not playing which is fair enough. There also seems to be no dispute that Black then gave a two week cooling off period from whatever it was that Okore said. That also hasn't been disputed. So the question is what happened next. Any player that has questioned the manager's authority regarding picking the team so he was always going to have to sit on the bench at best following talks and/or the "cooling off " period.
It's likely that Olore has indicated that his position hasn't changed and Black will have taken the line that if you don't like it (being on the bench) then you're dropped. He may or may not have specifically said "I'll never play again", but if he's refused to sit on the bench because he thinks he should be playing that's tantamount to refusing to play.
In this fuck up of a season the last thing we should be supporting is any situation where a player believes he has the power, however warranted he may be in wanting to start, so Black was 100% right.
You've got my point wrong so let's simplify.
Gabby has no future at the club and has been taking the piss for over a year. Black has no future at the club, he's an assistant who came in and our performances got worse. Okore might have a future at the club. On that simple basis I don't mind Black pissing off Gabby but I think him getting into arguments with Okore weakens our squad for next season which, in my opinion, is unforgivable for a guy who's sole job was to see us through to the end of the season without anything stupid happening.
After that you give a version of events that largely supports your view (by making Okore out as being the one who has been unreasonable), as has been pointed out Okore has a reputation of being very honest and saying what he thinks when asked so it could easily be something more like:
EB - "I want to start with x and y with you on the bench, what do you think about that?"
JO - "I think you're wrong because of a, b, c"
EB - "Well it's my job to pick the team and that's the one I've selected"
JO - "Then why bother asking me if I'm ok with being on the bench? I'm not, I want to play and I think I should be in the team"
EB - "If you're not ok with being on the bench then you're dropped from the squad"
2 weeks later
EB - "Are you ok with being on the bench now?"
JO - "I still think I should be starting"
EB - "Then you train with the kids"
I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm pointing out that in that situation I'm on Okore's side so "Black was 100% right" is clearly nonsense.
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Why would Black need to write a letter?..
Eh?
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So using Paul e's line of argument : fans think Gabby is bad = Gabby is bad
Fans like Okore= Black's an idiot
What seems to be indisputable is that Okore has spoken to Black about not playing which is fair enough. There also seems to be no dispute that Black then gave a two week cooling off period from whatever it was that Okore said. That also hasn't been disputed. So the question is what happened next. Any player that has questioned the manager's authority regarding picking the team so he was always going to have to sit on the bench at best following talks and/or the "cooling off " period.
It's likely that Olore has indicated that his position hasn't changed and Black will have taken the line that if you don't like it (being on the bench) then you're dropped. He may or may not have specifically said "I'll never play again", but if he's refused to sit on the bench because he thinks he should be playing that's tantamount to refusing to play.
In this fuck up of a season the last thing we should be supporting is any situation where a player believes he has the power, however warranted he may be in wanting to start, so Black was 100% right.
That was an interesting way of concluding he was 100% right. That sounds like "Black is always right"
Yes I believe he is right in how he has picked his centre-half pairings based on what has happened with Okore. That, however, is quite distinct from saying that he is always right and I think you'll struggle to see where I've said he's always right.
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As for Paul e 's attempt to simplify that's fair enough if you think any manager or person picking a team will ask a player what he thinks about a team selection. That is quote a ridiculous notion. It's more likely that Black told him he was on the bench at some point Okore has spoken to the manager after being on the bench saying he believes he should be playing and it is from here that the facts get hazy.
I believe that Black has said that's my team like it or lump it, he decided to lump it, so Black gave him time to consider his next step, he still lumped it so Black said "fine" you're with the kids.
I'm not at any time saying Black has the right to make the decision, whatever the merits of Okore's inclusion or not he should be professional and deal with it. Black has chopped and changed quite often so the likelihood is that he would have been back in by now but he made the decision for Black. Whatever the rights and wrongs are the player should never dictate selection and so Black is right.
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As for Paul e 's attempt to simplify that's fair enough if you think any manager or person picking a team will ask a player what he thinks about a team selection. That is quote a ridiculous notion. It's more likely that Black told him he was on the bench at some point Okore has spoken to the manager after being on the bench saying he believes he should be playing and it is from here that the facts get hazy.
I believe that Black has said that's my team like it or lump it, he decided to lump it, so Black gave him time to consider his next step, he still lumped it so Black said "fine" you're with the kids.
I'm not at any time saying Black has the right to make the decision, whatever the merits of Okore's inclusion or not he should be professional and deal with it. Black has chopped and changed quite often so the likelihood is that he would have been back in by now but he made the decision for Black. Whatever the rights and wrongs are the player should never dictate selection and so Black is right.
I think they'd certainly talk to the players after making a decision and it would be naive in the extreme to not expect a player to be disappointed. I purposely went with a version f events that went further the other way but I just don't see how you can be so certain that Black is right and Okore is wrong here. Black has shown repeatedly that his decision making isn't great and Okore has shown repeatedly that gametime is the thing he cares about most. On that basis I do not support a caretaker manager with no long term strategy deciding to ban a player from the squad over an internal matter and then tell all the press about it. Gabby is different because his issues were public so had to have a public response. As I've said, I'm utterly convinced that everything Black is doing is to highlight how terrible a situation he's found himself in so he can safely get a new a job, I don't even fault him for that, he's a caretaker with no long-term future at the club, looking after himself is fine in that regard, but he shouldn't be harming the club to do it and I believe some of his actions have caused us problems.
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You seriously think a manager picks a team and then would talk to a player? They may tell a player that he's on the bench, or even playing, yes, but that's not how you presented your argument. The manager would not ask, "What do you think about that"? Black has certainly not done anything to suggest he is the man to take charge of us next season but his brief was probably bring us through this turgid end of season which he has done. You may question one or two things but his right to take decisions shouldn't be one of them. If anyone is harming or has harmed the club it can't be Black Its Lerner. Its Fox. Its Armstadt. Its Gabby. Its Richards. Its N'Zogbia. Its Okore. Black may we be crap, he's in good company then, because Ayew aside who else can hold their head up this season?
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I specifically said that I went with a version of events which went the other way and I did it because you presented one where Black was right based on guess work, so i countered it to show that your '100% right' comment was anything but that.
As for listing off a bunch of names of people who deserve more criticism who cares in the context of this conversation? The context, from the very beginning is you thinking that Black is doing a good job and using him dropping probably the best central defender in the squad as a good thing.
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I was using logic based on what has gone before and based on the little we know. You have just used any wordsin an absurd conversation to counter that. What we do know is that Okore didn't want to be on the bench and now he's out of the team. I am 100% behind Black in keeping a player out who questions his right to pick his team. Okore would get more sympathy if he had been anything less than very mediocre this season so he has very little solid footing to expect to be picked. I don't think it is doubted that okore has questioned the manager's authoirty here and if it is then I have yet to see one thing to prove that.
If it turns out that Black is lying then what? Do we then expect to sack Holis and Sir Brian for allowing the manager to spread rumours of a player refusing to play and then sending him to train with the kids? If Black is lying then what message does that send ou tfrom the manager? Would there be an even less of an effort seen by the players? As it is the players are trying but they are mediocre at best and mediocre players with no confidence is what we see every week. Not mediocre players who have seen one of their team mates lied about, and accused of doing something that we see from the likes of Van Hooydonck who refuse to play for the first team for one reason or the other. Then, players came out with their opinion on the subject, as did staff around Forest. What have you heard from one person at Villa in defence of Okore? What expose have you heard from players keen to leave who could easily use that as an excuse to force through their departure from a club about to be relegated. There's been nothing. The reason for that suggests the story is closer to how Black and Villa have reported it than Okore.
Naming other names is very much in the context of the criticism of Black. He is trying to right a rotten core and has had Okore throwing his lot in and to me is an example of the rottenness around the place, and further evidence of the difficulty of his job. Is he doing a 'good' job? I don't know but appears as if he is trying.
Calling Okore the best defender? Based on what? I could call Lescott the best defender based on him playing for Man City and England a few years ago but it counts for little as he, Okore, Clark, Richards, have all been varying shades of abysmal this season.
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
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I am 100% behind Black in keeping a player out who questions his right to pick his team.
Given the terrible teams that he's been picking, I'd be more worried if the players weren't questioning his right to pick the team.
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
Okore has been poor this season. They all have. Have a gander at the league table. And not sure where you've seen me champion Lescott. I've even got that ability to read between the lines and, nope, still not there.
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I am 100% behind Black in keeping a player out who questions his right to pick his team.
Given the terrible teams that he's been picking, I'd be more worried if the players weren't questioning his right to pick the team.
Given the terrible players he has to pick from I'd be as flabbergasted as I am that people think Black would be doing that much better than he has.
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
Okore has been poor this season. They all have. Have a gander at the league table. And not sure where you've seen me champion Lescott. I've even got that ability to read between the lines and, nope, still not there.
You won't let it go then ...
Lets simplify things, Leicester are top of the league so they must have the best players in every position and we're bottom so everyone in our squad must be shit so if a temporary member of staff pisses a few of them off and they leave it'll be no loss, is that about what you're wanting to see?
I personally don't prescribe to the idea that all our players must be shit, it's a ridiculously shallow way to judge the squad, so you have to judge them on merit. Doing that for defenders is always difficult but there are a few options:
Stats don't mean everything but here (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24) they have Okore as the 3rd best player this season (I'd agree with them on 4 of the top 5, not sure how Richards snuck in there though).
Results in games he's involved in should be less controversial so here's the list (https://www.whoscored.com/Players/99901/Fixtures/Jores-Okore) I make that 26 conceded in 14 (1.857 per game) against a team performance of 82 in 42 at 1.95 per game. Not a great improvement but definitely above average. And he's badly affected by the awful performances against Man city in the cup and Liverpool, aside from those 2 games the defensive record with him in the team is much better.
You can also add the fact that the only period where we looked capable of staying up was in January where he was a regular.
The Lescott bit was tongue-in-cheek because you said you could call him the best based on England caps. I know you backed away from that afterwards but it's a worryingly naive approach to deciding the worth of a player.
What has Black done to deserve your defence of him?
Had us playing good football - no.
Stopped us matching our worst ever run of defeats - no.
Given the fans something to show that we can come straight back - no.
Called out the players who are roundly idenitified as being the source of the problems - 1 of them, the rest have been regulars in the team.
Kept the players we might want to keep happy? - no, not just Okore, he's also sidelined Veretout, Traore and Grealish and taken Ayew off twice when he's been our best player.
So what positives has he done?
I don't really care about the situation he came into because my opinion is that you could've had poll for the replacement on here and we'd have been no worse off for the run-in. I don't expect him to win every game but I do expect him to try to win 1 of them and I don't think he's done that in his first 5 attempts.
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
Okore has been poor this season. They all have. Have a gander at the league table. And not sure where you've seen me champion Lescott. I've even got that ability to read between the lines and, nope, still not there.
Even within "they've all been poor," there's a graduation of degrees of shit. Okore's tended to be part of the less shit partnerships, either with Clark or Lescott, which given how most people view those 2 is some going. In addition he has the added quality of looking like and playing like he gives a shit.
The whole thing stems from him wanting to play, and frankly if I was him and got dropped for Richards I'd be pissed off too.
My guess is that Okore has asked what's going on or what he needs to do to get back in the team. Black's told him something inspiring along the lines "all you need to know is which seat you're sitting in on the bench and if you don't like it don't bother coming."
No player worth his salt is going to say they're happy to sit on the bench so either Okore makes himself look like another freeloader and says he's happy with being on the bench, or he says he's not happy being on the bench and gets thrown to the U21s even if he follows up with "but I'll have to lump it," because Eric is well hard.
Given the comments from Okore's agent at the start of April where he basically called the club an unprofessional shambles as no one at the club could even say who he should talk to about plans and scenarios for next year, I suspect that the club want to take whatever they can and this has now developed into a situation where Okore has basically been told to piss off and don't rock the boat and we'll help you on your way out.
There's no mention of the club fining him, which suggests he's not actually refused to do anything. The PFA aren't involved and his agent isn't jumping up and down because there's no loss of earnings and having received one kick in the bollocks for saying you want to play, why risk another when you've only got to smile and wave for 2 more weeks and then there's a good chance you're out of madhouse, or at worst, getting to know whoever the new manager is.
Basically, Black's taken the same approach he used on Gabby to kick him out of harms way and used it to deal with a player wanting to get on the pitch, one that went out of his way to play whilst injured last season. Way to go Eric.
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I'm not privy to Okores comments I'm the Danish media but the basics seems to be he was unhappy at not playing ...so he is banished from squad .
Black then decides to play 3 cbs so if argument had happened he would likely now be picked ..
Whole thing just seems dodgy to me , just another in a long line of incidents which makes us look like a fucking Sunday league operation
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I won't let it go quoted by someone who seems similarly smitten. Marvellous. And as for those stats Paul e you agree with the stats but also don't agree with the stats? Only the one that fits your viewpoint clearly. And it's a bit of a stretch to consider 1.85 against 1.95 as a sound argument for Okore.
As it stands he was dropped for poor performances. It happens. He hasn't been our worst defender this season by any means but he had gone through a poor game or two so he was dropped. He can sulk all he wants. He can bang down the manager's door if he wants. But the way to respond professionally is to get down to hard work on the training field. The very same place Remi Garde was criticising player's attitudes so the problems are deep and not superficial. Nor a symptom of Eric Black.
Okore has no-one else to blame for this predicament if Black's version is correct. I just can't see what Black would hope to gain if it weren't.
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Black can't gain a point. Not one.
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I won't let it go quoted by someone who seems similarly smitten. Marvellous. And as for those stats Paul e you agree with the stats but also don't agree with the stats? Only the one that fits your viewpoint clearly. And it's a bit of a stretch to consider 1.85 against 1.95 as a sound argument for Okore.
As it stands he was dropped for poor performances. It happens. He hasn't been our worst defender this season by any means but he had gone through a poor game or two so he was dropped. He can sulk all he wants. He can bang down the manager's door if he wants. But the way to respond professionally is to get down to hard work on the training field. The very same place Remi Garde was criticising player's attitudes so the problems are deep and not superficial. Nor a symptom of Eric Black.
Okore has no-one else to blame for this predicament if Black's version is correct. I just can't see what Black would hope to gain if it weren't.
Your second paragraph, that's exactly what he's done through 3 years now. This is someone who turned down a move to Chelsea 6 months before he came to us because he wouldn't get the playing time he wanted.
Your last sentence is the most pertinent one. No one knows if Black's version is correct. And as for what he's got to gain? You're correct the answer is nothing.
I'd say that the answer lies in incompetence and or a nervous determination to prove the "don't f##k with me" reputation he'd started to grow with Gabby. He's taken what he's done to Gabby, who's been causing problems everywhere to everyone except the opposition, to remove a genuine problem from the squad and repeated it with Okore in a situation that didn't need it. I'll bet quite a lot that this has escalated from a fairly innocuous what I have I got to do to get in the team/how come Richards is in front of me, which Black has interpreted as challenge to his authority.
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Indeed VID. Black has assumed a responsibility to quell disloyalty and lack of commitment in the squad when his far more important responsibility is damage limitation. The disaster was already upon us when Black took charge. The disruptive forces sown in the dressing room going back seasons had finally taken their toll. Agbonlahor had pressed the self destruct button months ago. Kicking him in the arse was like a cat sinking it's claws into an already killed rat. Okore and possibly Traore have been completely unnecessarily alienated. I do not accept the stamp out the bolshy behaviour defence.
When Ayew got his red card against West Ham it was stupid, reckless and immature behaviour. It was widely reported that he went on to say in the heat of the moment that Villa were done for and he did not want to play. Stuff like that happens in all areas of life. Things are said that are better left unsaid. I do not doubt that Okore has spoken out of turn to Black but it is part of the manager's job to defuse potential problems not exacerbate them.
Black is like the senior surviving officer of an army in retreat. His duty is to get his men to fall back and regroup with the minimum of further casualties. Okore to me looks like the classic Napoleonic tactic pour encouragez les autres.
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I won't let it go quoted by someone who seems similarly smitten. Marvellous. And as for those stats Paul e you agree with the stats but also don't agree with the stats? Only the one that fits your viewpoint clearly. And it's a bit of a stretch to consider 1.85 against 1.95 as a sound argument for Okore.
As it stands he was dropped for poor performances. It happens. He hasn't been our worst defender this season by any means but he had gone through a poor game or two so he was dropped. He can sulk all he wants. He can bang down the manager's door if he wants. But the way to respond professionally is to get down to hard work on the training field. The very same place Remi Garde was criticising player's attitudes so the problems are deep and not superficial. Nor a symptom of Eric Black.
Okore has no-one else to blame for this predicament if Black's version is correct. I just can't see what Black would hope to gain if it weren't.
Er, what? I asked to leave you it, you refused, should I just ignore you now?
The stats thing i have no idea what you're trying to say but what I said is that I know that using stats to justify things is controversial but that his put him where I'd expect based on what I've seen, However I'm surprised that Richards is as high as he is. There's no contradiction there. The goals against thing, it's not a huge difference but it is there, you'd only ignore that completely if you were trying to justify him being dropped.
From there:
- You have no evidence that he's sulking.
- You have no evidence that he isn't training hard.
- You have no evidence that he has an attitude problem but use a comment about Garde to suggest it.
- Okore has no one but himself to blame 'if Black's version is correct' - do you really not see the problem with that statement?
- You can't see what he has to gain, would be good if I'd already pointed that out 2-3 times, oh wait.
Stop making shit up to let you support Black, we don't know anything like enough about what happened to be able to do that and can only judge on the evidence that a player who we could really do with having available isn't and with no fines or PFA action it's impossible to decide who is in the wrong which in itself suggests to me that Black has hugely over-reacted.
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I struggle to muster any feelings for or against Eric Black. He's come in to a team that is already relegated (albeit he had to wait a few games for it to become mathematically possible) and has got the team playing okay at times but mostly different degrees of bad, much like his two predecessors. He'll go once the season ends and will be mostly forgotten about within a few years.
I think as soon as the season ends/we get new owners in/a new manager in/a combination of all those events we can start to look to the future, rather than the merits (or lack of) of a caretaker manager presiding over the worst group of 'professional' footballers we've had the misfortune to pay (!) to go and watch.
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Paul e - if you quote me directly then I shall reply. If you don't like it then simply don't visit the Eric Black thread where it is quite obvious I will be mounting a defence based on circumstances rather than ability. Within the spirit of a public forum I shall not ask you to leave it or let it go but will welcome your response and will respond within the spirit of debate and discussion.
As it is the evidence I am using is that Okore has been packed off to the kids. That hasn't happened because he's been playing well or averaging 7 out of 10, or even because Black doesn't fancy him as a player. I do not know the reasons why he's not in the first-team squad but I am using logic to take me to the point that I have arrived at. I haven't made anything up anywhere as I have said that I do not know what has gone on and I assume not one person here does. I back Black in this though, if Okore's attitude is what have had him dropped from the first-team squad and unlike what appears to be the majority here on this point, I am not using what I don't know against Black. You seem to be.
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Paul e - if you quote me directly then I shall reply. If you don't like it then simply don't visit the Eric Black thread where it is quite obvious I will be mounting a defence based on circumstances rather than ability. Within the spirit of a public forum I shall not ask you to leave it or let it go but will welcome your response and will respond within the spirit of debate and discussion.
As it is the evidence I am using is that Okore has been packed off to the kids. That hasn't happened because he's been playing well or averaging 7 out of 10, or even because Black doesn't fancy him as a player. I do not know the reasons why he's not in the first-team squad but I am using logic to take me to the point that I have arrived at. I haven't made anything up anywhere as I have said that I do not know what has gone on and I assume not one person here does. I back Black in this though, if Okore's attitude is what have had him dropped from the first-team squad and unlike what appears to be the majority here on this point, I am not using what I don't know against Black. You seem to be.
Butting in, if you're using logic and evidence, were talking about a bloke who's only ever said he's wanted to play, who risked his knee going big time again last season to get us through to season's end, who turned down a big money move to Chelsea because he was worried about how much game time he was going to get .
How do you get a bloke like that to suddenly be saying he's not prepared to sit on the bench, and 3 days later still saying it, unless there's some seriously shit management going on.
And if you want stats, 11 out of measly 16 points have been won in the 12 games Okore has played. Probably not enough to keep us up, but infinitely better than the other 24 games. 2/3 of the points earned in 1/3 of the games played.
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Well done to all, this thread is now officially the most tedious thing about this season, even allowing for relegation and 11 defeats on the spin! :)
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Well done to all, this thread is now officially the most tedious thing about this season, even allowing for relegation and 11 defeats on the spin! :)
It's a sleight of hand manoeuvre to divert attention.
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Your name does add to the tedium Risso so thanks for your assistance...As it is Black was at the Shit so to save time I'll just tell him to feck off.
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At least he is consistent .
caretaker boss at Birmingham , Sunderland , rotherham and Aston villa win percentage
0.00 %
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See? He's doing as well as can be expected.
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He was appointed to bring this ship to port, he's boring but actually professional.
Do I believe him over Okore? 100%.
Why get worked up over a caretaker manager?
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
Okore has been poor this season. They all have. Have a gander at the league table. And not sure where you've seen me champion Lescott. I've even got that ability to read between the lines and, nope, still not there.
You won't let it go then ...
Lets simplify things, Leicester are top of the league so they must have the best players in every position and we're bottom so everyone in our squad must be shit so if a temporary member of staff pisses a few of them off and they leave it'll be no loss, is that about what you're wanting to see?
I personally don't prescribe to the idea that all our players must be shit, it's a ridiculously shallow way to judge the squad, so you have to judge them on merit. Doing that for defenders is always difficult but there are a few options:
Stats don't mean everything but here (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24) they have Okore as the 3rd best player this season (I'd agree with them on 4 of the top 5, not sure how Richards snuck in there though).
Results in games he's involved in should be less controversial so here's the list (https://www.whoscored.com/Players/99901/Fixtures/Jores-Okore) I make that 26 conceded in 14 (1.857 per game) against a team performance of 82 in 42 at 1.95 per game. Not a great improvement but definitely above average. And he's badly affected by the awful performances against Man city in the cup and Liverpool, aside from those 2 games the defensive record with him in the team is much better.
You can also add the fact that the only period where we looked capable of staying up was in January where he was a regular.
The Lescott bit was tongue-in-cheek because you said you could call him the best based on England caps. I know you backed away from that afterwards but it's a worryingly naive approach to deciding the worth of a player.
What has Black done to deserve your defence of him?
Had us playing good football - no.
Stopped us matching our worst ever run of defeats - no.
Given the fans something to show that we can come straight back - no.
Called out the players who are roundly idenitified as being the source of the problems - 1 of them, the rest have been regulars in the team.
Kept the players we might want to keep happy? - no, not just Okore, he's also sidelined Veretout, Traore and Grealish and taken Ayew off twice when he's been our best player.
So what positives has he done?
I don't really care about the situation he came into because my opinion is that you could've had poll for the replacement on here and we'd have been no worse off for the run-in. I don't expect him to win every game but I do expect him to try to win 1 of them and I don't think he's done that in his first 5 attempts.
The bit in bold is the reason why I wouldn't trust EB's statement and actions as "100% right". How in the f... does he keep on with those? It is like the "old friends clique of Sherwood" will always play.
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Like a crap Winston Wolfe.
(Disclaimer: Since he moved into advertising insurance products, you could argue that Winston Wolfe is like a crap Winston Wolfe.)
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
Okore has been poor this season. They all have. Have a gander at the league table. And not sure where you've seen me champion Lescott. I've even got that ability to read between the lines and, nope, still not there.
You won't let it go then ...
Lets simplify things, Leicester are top of the league so they must have the best players in every position and we're bottom so everyone in our squad must be shit so if a temporary member of staff pisses a few of them off and they leave it'll be no loss, is that about what you're wanting to see?
I personally don't prescribe to the idea that all our players must be shit, it's a ridiculously shallow way to judge the squad, so you have to judge them on merit. Doing that for defenders is always difficult but there are a few options:
Stats don't mean everything but here (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24) they have Okore as the 3rd best player this season (I'd agree with them on 4 of the top 5, not sure how Richards snuck in there though).
Results in games he's involved in should be less controversial so here's the list (https://www.whoscored.com/Players/99901/Fixtures/Jores-Okore) I make that 26 conceded in 14 (1.857 per game) against a team performance of 82 in 42 at 1.95 per game. Not a great improvement but definitely above average. And he's badly affected by the awful performances against Man city in the cup and Liverpool, aside from those 2 games the defensive record with him in the team is much better.
You can also add the fact that the only period where we looked capable of staying up was in January where he was a regular.
The Lescott bit was tongue-in-cheek because you said you could call him the best based on England caps. I know you backed away from that afterwards but it's a worryingly naive approach to deciding the worth of a player.
What has Black done to deserve your defence of him?
Had us playing good football - no.
Stopped us matching our worst ever run of defeats - no.
Given the fans something to show that we can come straight back - no.
Called out the players who are roundly idenitified as being the source of the problems - 1 of them, the rest have been regulars in the team.
Kept the players we might want to keep happy? - no, not just Okore, he's also sidelined Veretout, Traore and Grealish and taken Ayew off twice when he's been our best player.
So what positives has he done?
I don't really care about the situation he came into because my opinion is that you could've had poll for the replacement on here and we'd have been no worse off for the run-in. I don't expect him to win every game but I do expect him to try to win 1 of them and I don't think he's done that in his first 5 attempts.
The bit in bold is the reason why I wouldn't trust EB's statement and actions as "100% right". How in the f... does he keep on with those? It is like the "old friends clique of Sherwood" will always play.
I can see your point Edvard but what agenda?
Player sale? If so, that comes from the top. No need to apportion the blame to a caretaker.
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
Okore has been poor this season. They all have. Have a gander at the league table. And not sure where you've seen me champion Lescott. I've even got that ability to read between the lines and, nope, still not there.
You won't let it go then ...
Lets simplify things, Leicester are top of the league so they must have the best players in every position and we're bottom so everyone in our squad must be shit so if a temporary member of staff pisses a few of them off and they leave it'll be no loss, is that about what you're wanting to see?
I personally don't prescribe to the idea that all our players must be shit, it's a ridiculously shallow way to judge the squad, so you have to judge them on merit. Doing that for defenders is always difficult but there are a few options:
Stats don't mean everything but here (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24) they have Okore as the 3rd best player this season (I'd agree with them on 4 of the top 5, not sure how Richards snuck in there though).
Results in games he's involved in should be less controversial so here's the list (https://www.whoscored.com/Players/99901/Fixtures/Jores-Okore) I make that 26 conceded in 14 (1.857 per game) against a team performance of 82 in 42 at 1.95 per game. Not a great improvement but definitely above average. And he's badly affected by the awful performances against Man city in the cup and Liverpool, aside from those 2 games the defensive record with him in the team is much better.
You can also add the fact that the only period where we looked capable of staying up was in January where he was a regular.
The Lescott bit was tongue-in-cheek because you said you could call him the best based on England caps. I know you backed away from that afterwards but it's a worryingly naive approach to deciding the worth of a player.
What has Black done to deserve your defence of him?
Had us playing good football - no.
Stopped us matching our worst ever run of defeats - no.
Given the fans something to show that we can come straight back - no.
Called out the players who are roundly idenitified as being the source of the problems - 1 of them, the rest have been regulars in the team.
Kept the players we might want to keep happy? - no, not just Okore, he's also sidelined Veretout, Traore and Grealish and taken Ayew off twice when he's been our best player.
So what positives has he done?
I don't really care about the situation he came into because my opinion is that you could've had poll for the replacement on here and we'd have been no worse off for the run-in. I don't expect him to win every game but I do expect him to try to win 1 of them and I don't think he's done that in his first 5 attempts.
The bit in bold is the reason why I wouldn't trust EB's statement and actions as "100% right". How in the f... does he keep on with those? It is like the "old friends clique of Sherwood" will always play.
I can see your point Edvard but what agenda?
Player sale? If so, that comes from the top. No need to apportion the blame to a caretaker.
I can't see that helps player sale, as the price would drop for them.
I just going to conspire that it is the English group staying loyal to each other (just like TS was praised and RG was crap by the pundits, who happened to have played at same era). Why? plenty of stupidity has been happening for me to be surprised if it was just in spite.
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Black has been fucking useless. He has been the cause of booing because of his team selection, not addressed the poor defending and not taken us even a millimetre in the right direction. The Gabby thing HAD to be dealt with, so he gets no plaudits there either. Get rid as soon as the season is over.
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There's no point carrying on, you're determined, for some reason, to nothing wrong in anything Black has done, I see little from him to suggest he's been worth his salary so lets agree to leave it there.
Oh and Okore is the best central defender in the squad based on the fact that any time our defence has looked remotely solid in the last 2 years he's been in it, bar a short run with Vlaar and Senderos (who could both have been great defenders if they weren't made of glass) who aren't here. If you're going to champion Lescott then I suggest we go and get Terry, he's a knob who's best days are long behind him but he's been England captain.
Okore has been poor this season. They all have. Have a gander at the league table. And not sure where you've seen me champion Lescott. I've even got that ability to read between the lines and, nope, still not there.
You won't let it go then ...
Lets simplify things, Leicester are top of the league so they must have the best players in every position and we're bottom so everyone in our squad must be shit so if a temporary member of staff pisses a few of them off and they leave it'll be no loss, is that about what you're wanting to see?
I personally don't prescribe to the idea that all our players must be shit, it's a ridiculously shallow way to judge the squad, so you have to judge them on merit. Doing that for defenders is always difficult but there are a few options:
Stats don't mean everything but here (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24) they have Okore as the 3rd best player this season (I'd agree with them on 4 of the top 5, not sure how Richards snuck in there though).
Results in games he's involved in should be less controversial so here's the list (https://www.whoscored.com/Players/99901/Fixtures/Jores-Okore) I make that 26 conceded in 14 (1.857 per game) against a team performance of 82 in 42 at 1.95 per game. Not a great improvement but definitely above average. And he's badly affected by the awful performances against Man city in the cup and Liverpool, aside from those 2 games the defensive record with him in the team is much better.
You can also add the fact that the only period where we looked capable of staying up was in January where he was a regular.
The Lescott bit was tongue-in-cheek because you said you could call him the best based on England caps. I know you backed away from that afterwards but it's a worryingly naive approach to deciding the worth of a player.
What has Black done to deserve your defence of him?
Had us playing good football - no.
Stopped us matching our worst ever run of defeats - no.
Given the fans something to show that we can come straight back - no.
Called out the players who are roundly idenitified as being the source of the problems - 1 of them, the rest have been regulars in the team.
Kept the players we might want to keep happy? - no, not just Okore, he's also sidelined Veretout, Traore and Grealish and taken Ayew off twice when he's been our best player.
So what positives has he done?
I don't really care about the situation he came into because my opinion is that you could've had poll for the replacement on here and we'd have been no worse off for the run-in. I don't expect him to win every game but I do expect him to try to win 1 of them and I don't think he's done that in his first 5 attempts.
The bit in bold is the reason why I wouldn't trust EB's statement and actions as "100% right". How in the f... does he keep on with those? It is like the "old friends clique of Sherwood" will always play.
I can see your point Edvard but what agenda?
Player sale? If so, that comes from the top. No need to apportion the blame to a caretaker.
I can't see that helps player sale, as the price would drop for them.
I just going to conspire that it is the English group staying loyal to each other (just like TS was praised and RG was crap by the pundits, who happened to have played at same era). Why? plenty of stupidity has been happening for me to be surprised if it was just in spite.
I just don't think its believable. What reason has he got to drop Okore, or indeed say he's causing a problem?
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Well done to all, this thread is now officially the most tedious thing about this season, even allowing for relegation and 11 defeats on the spin! :)
Maybe we could have a nice long debate about Spurs' accounts to liven things up?
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Well done to all, this thread is now officially the most tedious thing about this season, even allowing for relegation and 11 defeats on the spin! :)
Maybe we could have a nice long debate about Spurs' accounts to liven things up?
Oooh go on then!
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I just don't think its believable. What reason has he got to drop Okore, or indeed say he's causing a problem?
I don't think he's following an agenda other than what he thinks is easiest for him.
Gabby is a monumental pain in the arse. F##k him off to thunderous applause.
Okore is giving him grief about not playing. F##k him off so I don't have to listen to him.
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Well done to all, this thread is now officially the most tedious thing about this season, even allowing for relegation and 11 defeats on the spin! :)
Maybe we could have a nice long debate about Spurs' accounts to liven things up?
Oooh go on then!
No, that's old hat. More pertinent is whether Doug or Randy is worse.
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I just don't think its believable. What reason has he got to drop Okore, or indeed say he's causing a problem?
I don't think he's following an agenda other than what he thinks is easiest for him.
Gabby is a monumental pain in the arse. F##k him off to thunderous applause.
Okore is giving him grief about not playing. F##k him off so I don't have to listen to him.
Exactly.
Peter, I honestly give up, you talk about Logic but don't even understand what it means, as a hint it doesn't involve making huge assumptions and then coming to a conclusion based on them, that's been my point all along you're creating a scenario where Black is right and then saying that you back him 100% but that is only true if all of your previous assumptions about what happened are correct and the only thing you can defend those assumptions with is by asking 'why would he lie?' but you refuse to accept a reply of 'why would Okore (who has a reputation of being brutally honest with the press) lie?'
I offered to call a truce and agree to disagree because I was worried we might upset Risso but you wanted to carry things on making the same point over and over and ignoring me making the same points in response. I now fully accept your right to reply but I'm not going to bother any more, you're welcome to continue thinking that Black has done a good job and that Okore is some sort of lying vigilante arsehole who'd rather sit in the stands than play but I'm always going to think that you're completely wrong.
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as I said earlier, I really can't see the point of keyboard handbags over someone who is patently not part of Aston Villa's future. Black has a few more weeks in the sun and then he's history. Time to look to the future and Eric isn't it.
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It's a shame Eric isn't looking into the future.
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Why the fuck are you lot arguing about some one who wont be at the club in about a months time?
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Why the fuck are you lot arguing about some one who wont be at the club in about a months time?
Because if as a result of his terrible decisions players who could still be assets to us decide they want to leave, his brief tenure does more damage than just the awful results.
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In about 3 weeks Eric Black will have about as much current relevance as spokey-dokeys
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Why the fuck are you lot arguing about some one who wont be at the club in about a months time?
Because if as a result of his terrible decisions players who could still be assets to us decide they want to leave, his brief tenure does more damage than just the awful results.
This - I would love to see Traore play the last 2 matches. It is not like he will ruin our season if he doesn't track back enough.
I also prefer not to see Bacuna, Lescott etc. wear the shirt again.
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Some people will just argue about anything. Eric fucking Black, It would be hilarious if he wasn't another chump that we were employing.
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Why the fuck are you lot arguing about some one who wont be at the club in about a months time?
Because if as a result of his terrible decisions players who could still be assets to us decide they want to leave, his brief tenure does more damage than just the awful results.
This - I would love to see Traore play the last 2 matches. It is not like he will ruin our season if he doesn't track back enough.
I also prefer not to see Bacuna, Lescott etc. wear the shirt again.
To be honest I would not mind if Lescott stayed next year nor Bacuna
Guzan and Gabby and Richards are the ones I want gone
Even though Traore is one of those players that gets better in fans minds the less he plays I have absolutely no idea why he is frozen out
And WTF happened to Kozak again?
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Why the fuck are you lot arguing about some one who wont be at the club in about a months time?
Because if as a result of his terrible decisions players who could still be assets to us decide they want to leave, his brief tenure does more damage than just the awful results.
Got it in 1, this is the very reason why I never wanted Garde to leave before the end of the season unless we had a new guy ready to step in. I don't like caretaker managers for more than 1-2 games, they don't have enough time to do anything useful but if they have the wrong approach they can do a lot of damage in a very short space of time because they see it as a chance to prove they can be the main man at a club and start acting like that's what they are rather than a stop gap.
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And WTF happened to Kozak again?
He's recently had surgery on a fractured ankle (I think)
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I posted a while ago that as far as I'm concerned; the minute the final whistle went at Old Crapford confirming relegation that, that was the minute the planning for next season started. To my way of thinking; that would involve whomever was in charge of playing affairs would begin to experiment with different players at his disposal and a fresh approach to tactics. Results were inconsequential at that stage so what was to lose? Black has made no attempt to address any of the playing deficiencies, and for that, needs fucking off as soon as the season ends. Before if I had my way. Intransigence doesn't come any where near him.
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A mongrel cross breed between Paul Lambert and Tiny Penis (without the organisation).
Hopeless man.
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egregious cnut
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A mongrel cross breed between Paul Lambert and Tiny Penis (without the organisation).
Hopeless man.
You forgot he's reading the Alex McLeish guide to coaching attacking philosophies.
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Twat of the first order
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Joyless wanker.
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Complete twat - get rid now
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Another hideous selection today, can't wait until he's no longer involved.
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The bloke is a Fkin idiot. A complete and total waste of space.
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Without wishing to exaggerate, I don't think two fans plucked from the crowd could have picked much worse teamd than Black and his mate. Some achievement to be the worst manager of recent times, but I think he's managed it.
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We've cornered the market in buffoons haven't we?
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Is he even worthy of the description 'buffoon'? The man is a downright sadist.
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What did Ferguson put in the water up at Aberdeen. Black and McLeish must have been drinking from the same pot.
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Be glad to see the back of him asap. Which buffoon decided he should be the stand - in manager? I wish Sherwood was in charge! Crap decision making yet again from the hierarchy.
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Spineless, gutless twat.
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I know people have said that there was nothing to be done with this squad, but Black's been nothing but a mannequin in a tracksuit. He's been paid to be a presence on the Villa bench and nothing more.
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The bloke is very negative I will give that, but he ain't the problem within. Hopefully he'll be gone and we'll have new owners and a manager very soon and we can all move on.
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Dreary one note downer. Should never be anywhere near the first team of any club regardless of league.
That said he didnt lose today. Which is probably the very best he is capable of.
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He's a knob, end of
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I reckon he is a first class graduate of the school of Pulis
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One more dodgy Scottish manager at the club and I'll be voting to bomb Scotland off the fucking map. Moyes was my number one choice but I've gone right off him. Too dour. Too Scottish.
I still like Shortbread and Iron Bru though.
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Without wishing to exaggerate, I don't think two fans plucked from the crowd could have picked much worse teamd than Black and his mate. Some achievement to be the worst manager of recent times, but I think he's managed it.
I take that as an insult to us fans.I would love to hear the tactical discussions, sorry discussions,he has with his assistant and players.
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One sub, one minute from the end.
I looked over at him several times, no one even warming up near the end when players were knackered.
The bloke is a fucking idiot, 35 years or not.
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One sub, one minute from the end.
I looked over at him several times, no one even warming up near the end when players were knackered.
The bloke is a fucking idiot, 35 years or not.
Absolutely. Struggling to create chances at home to a team that's almost certainly going to be relegated with us and the three most creative players in the squad are sat on the bench with their tracksuits on.
What an absolute, and I choose my words carefully here, thundercunt!
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He is a deluded prick, thinking the crowd were responding to that performance.
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8points from 4 before today so they shouldn't have been as toothless as they were. Finally put a stop to the rot and only 1 game left to endure before we start the rebuilding process.
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There is an argument to say he was desperate to avoid a 12th straight defeat hence the negativity. I don't rate the bloke either but I could sort of see the logic today.
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There is an argument to say he was desperate to avoid a 12th straight defeat hence the negativity. I don't rate the bloke either but I could sort of see the logic today.
Agree, he didn't want twelve straight losses. If he hadn't been so negative in some of the previous eleven he wouldn't have been in the situation anyway
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Looking on the bright side, we won't be seeing this utterly useless prick on Aug 6th.
So long Mr 35 years, cock piss Eric
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Well unless he becomes Bruces' Assistant. Shudder.
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this cock is of no consequence mr 35 years and the fans have a right to there opinions, just sliver away and impress some poor souls that cant see through your total ineptness.
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Better hope he 's not in charge for the first game in august.
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lets face it most of the 12th straight defeat thing was garde's doing
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lets face it most of the 12th straight defeat thing was garde's doing
I'm all ears. Please do go on
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lets face it most of the 12th straight defeat thing was garde's doing
I'm all ears. Please do go on
I'm assuming that's as in he was in charge for 6 of the games.
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Come final whistle time at the Tarquin stadium of silence next week let us hope that they hire him a taxi to take him back to whatever rock he crawled from and he can have deep conversations with his messiah that is TSM1.
Good riddance and never darken Villas door again. 35 years you twat.
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I come out in hives just reading the man's name. The ultimate surrender monkey, and the only man in the footballing world who could make TSM and TSM1 look tactically competent.
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Just seen his interview on MOTD.
The ****** just does not get it, does he.
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He bit yesterday when the fans behind the dug out had a go at him. too
37 years experience, 21 wins... Genius.
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If only we'd directed this amount of vitriol at the "proper" managers we've had in the past 5 years, then they'd probably have got the boot earlier and Lerner may have accidentally chosen a decent one. Slagging off someone who's not the manager, never will be, and isn't responsible for the current mess seems poor targeting.
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Even by the dismally low expectations most had when he took the job he has come up short, so any abuse is fully justified IMO.
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If only we'd directed this amount of vitriol at the "proper" managers we've had in the past 5 years, then they'd probably have got the boot earlier and Lerner may have accidentally chosen a decent one. Slagging off someone who's not the manager, never will be, and isn't responsible for the current mess seems poor targeting.
Anybody put in charge to manage the team has a duty to do the best for Aston Villa, whether it is one week or more.
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If only we'd directed this amount of vitriol at the "proper" managers we've had in the past 5 years, then they'd probably have got the boot earlier and Lerner may have accidentally chosen a decent one. Slagging off someone who's not the manager, never will be, and isn't responsible for the current mess seems poor targeting.
Correct and right.
Anybody put in charge to manage the team has a duty to do the best for Aston Villa, whether it is one week or more.
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If only we'd directed this amount of vitriol at the "proper" managers we've had in the past 5 years, then they'd probably have got the boot earlier and Lerner may have accidentally chosen a decent one. Slagging off someone who's not the manager, never will be, and isn't responsible for the current mess seems poor targeting.
Anybody put in charge to manage the team has a duty to do the best for Aston Villa, whether it is one week or more.
agree and this idiot has failed dismally.
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Eric Black let me make it quite clear I would before his appointment not have appointed him in a million years.
Moving on however, he was appointed and has had the impossible task of salvaging something. Performances have actually improved (Man Utd and Newcastle I witnessed) - Watford can only assume judging by the comments, scoreline and other factors.
Black did something about Fat Gabby, has probably knocked Richards down a peg or two and introduced one or two fresh faces.
Okay it has been wrong to play the likes of Richardson, Bacuna but come on what options has he had. Like every manager there is one or two personnel who in a million years you wouldn't trust to walk your dog but is seen in a different light - e.g. Sinclair.
Its not Black's fault where we stand today, this goes back to some plabbering Irishman with a full fondness of a bulging wallet.
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Black's monumental stupidity arises not from whom he played but from those he chose effectively to freeze out during a period when precious time preparing for next season has been frittered away.
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Black's monumental stupidity arises not from whom he played but from those he chose effectively to freeze out during a period when precious time preparing for next season has been frittered away.
correct, and he had lots of options and just chose to go the safest and most negative root.
He is an idiot.
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It's some achievement, that he took over with expectations absolutely rock bottom because of the circumstances and squad make up, yet he's still managed to undershoot by a couple of light years.
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Eric Black let me make it quite clear I would before his appointment not have appointed him in a million years.
Moving on however, he was appointed and has had the impossible task of salvaging something. Performances have actually improved (Man Utd and Newcastle I witnessed) - Watford can only assume judging by the comments, scoreline and other factors.
Black did something about Fat Gabby, has probably knocked Richards down a peg or two and introduced one or two fresh faces.
Okay it has been wrong to play the likes of Richardson, Bacuna but come on what options has he had. Like every manager there is one or two personnel who in a million years you wouldn't trust to walk your dog but is seen in a different light - e.g. Sinclair.
Its not Black's fault where we stand today, this goes back to some plabbering Irishman with a full fondness of a bulging wallet.
I don't think there has been one post on this thread that says that Black is in anyway responsible for the shit we're in. He's only culpable for the turgid, uninspiring non-football his team selections have provided. Get him out of here asap.
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Right
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Just a thought. McLeish and Black both played under Ferguson at Aberdeen and both set teams up very negatively - just contributes to my theory that Alex Ferguson's players have all made uninspiring managers.
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Black's monumental stupidity arises not from whom he played but from those he chose effectively to freeze out during a period when precious time preparing for next season has been frittered away.
If we go with the idea that soon we will have a new owner, new manager, new coaches, lose many of this squad, then I'm not sure preparing for next year is relevant.
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I can't speak for anybody else but I would have appreciated a bit of hope for next season.
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Besides there are going to be a lot more familiar faces around next season than most expect.
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Still don't get it. He's like the bloke from accounts who's been asked to stand in and do whatever the office manager does for a few weeks while they put the advert on Indeed. He has no power or influence over his bosses or his colleagues, and lets face it, the last 3 clowns in charge DID have that and couldn't do jack shit so he's supposed to ressurrect "hope" or play certain players who've been shite all season but are suddenly good or slightly better than who's he playing (in some of our opinions), while getting them to play attractive attacking football which of course is what Aston Villa have been known for till now *splutter*.. And all while knowing he's just about to be tintacked as soon as the season finishes. Now to me THAT smacks of wildly over-optimistic expectations.
I don't rate him as a Manager and if there was a chance he'd get the job i'd be moaning too but there isn't at all. Just makes us look small time attacking someone who had literally nothing to do with anything that's happened in the last 5 years and is probably lower on the "who's fault is it list" than a lot of Villa fans. Lets face it, most of us have been pretty much silent partners with Lerner in the pursuit of relegation for the last 5 years or more.
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Sinclair for Traore down the middle with 30 mins left. Its that simple.
WE MIGHT, JUST MUGHT, HAVE BEEN ENTERTAINED FOR FUCKS SAKE.
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Here's another one. It's just come to me.
How about Grealish for anyone of our limp, negative, boring midfield 3 for 30 minutes?
Or maybe Hepburn-Murphy for 30 in place of Sinclair.
What seismic damage would any of these changes have made?
We were barely getting out of our own half for most of the game so why not try something, anything.
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yeah i'm sure if Traore had come on and done his usual running into blind corners, losing the ball, and not tracking back bit and they scored from one of the inevitable chances, this thread would have been full of congratulatory posts commending Black's commitment to entertainment, rather than the usual "worse manager evoh" posts ..... *winky face*
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Yes but we will never know will we?
Because our great caretaking tactician decided to do NOTHING.
So even in a no lose situation, He's failed miserably week after week and we've been forced to endure the footballing equivalent of watching oil based Satinwood dry. (Other oil based finishes available).
I think he's had more than enough opportunity to get some positives out of these games even though its a poor side but he's failed big time resorting to the old pro safe mode which he will be remembered by.
Look at the line-up yesterday? That says it all to me.
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yeah i'm sure if Traore had come on and done his usual running into blind corners, losing the ball, and not tracking back bit and they scored from one of the inevitable chances, this thread would have been full of congratulatory posts commending Black's commitment to entertainment, rather than the usual "worse manager evoh" posts ..... *winky face*
Yeah because it would have had a massive impact on our season wouldn't it?
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yeah i'm sure if Traore had come on and done his usual running into blind corners, losing the ball, and not tracking back bit and they scored from one of the inevitable chances, this thread would have been full of congratulatory posts commending Black's commitment to entertainment, rather than the usual "worse manager evoh" posts ..... *winky face*
Yeah because it would have had a massive impact on our season wouldn't it?
Switching things around, in my opinion, would have enabled me to say that at least he'd tried something different.
In a more crucial situation, fine, be safe.
But we were relegated weeks ago.
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Yes but we will never know will we?
Because our great caretaking tactician decided to do NOTHING.
So even in a no lose situation, He's failed miserably week after week and we've been forced to endure the footballing equivalent of watching oil based Satinwood dry. (Other oil based finishes available).
I think he's had more than enough opportunity to get some positives out of these games even though its a poor side but he's failed big time resorting to the old pro safe mode which he will be remembered by.
Look at the line-up yesterday? That says it all to me.
well you plays the odds. Chances of Traore scoring or creating an assist is a hell of a lot longer odds than him gifting the ball to the opposition and putting pressure on a midfield and defence who have proved catagorically they can't defend long before Black appeared. I'd have liked him to have played the kids when he took over, but my view has changed because frankly he's not going to be here and possibly damaging the progress of a decent youth player for the sake of short term progress or hope is stupid. His hands are tied - he could blood 5 youngsters and find the new manager doesn't want them or won't play a way that suits them or stick in a kid too early and destroy their confidence all in the name of making us feel happier. Nah, I personally think rather than a no-lose situation, he's in a no-win one.
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yeah i'm sure if Traore had come on and done his usual running into blind corners, losing the ball, and not tracking back bit and they scored from one of the inevitable chances, this thread would have been full of congratulatory posts commending Black's commitment to entertainment, rather than the usual "worse manager evoh" posts ..... *winky face*
Yeah because it would have had a massive impact on our season wouldn't it?
Also Traore is a 19 year old who has struggled with injuries and is in his first year in a foreign country. He may have given the ball away a bit, but he's also shown that with nurturing he has immense talent. We'll probably lose him, but I reckon there's a 90% chance we'll all be regretting him not being given a chance when he is a star in 5 years time.
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yeah i'm sure if Traore had come on and done his usual running into blind corners, losing the ball, and not tracking back bit and they scored from one of the inevitable chances, this thread would have been full of congratulatory posts commending Black's commitment to entertainment, rather than the usual "worse manager evoh" posts ..... *winky face*
Yeah because it would have had a massive impact on our season wouldn't it?
Also Traore is a 19 year old who has struggled with injuries and is in his first year in a foreign country. He may have given the ball away a bit, but he's also shown that with nurturing he has immense talent. We'll probably lose him, but I reckon there's a 90% chance we'll all be regretting him not being given a chance when he is a star in 5 years time.
what are you basing this on? Really? A future star? On this season? He's shown glimpses of having raw talent but someone's gonna come in and pay 60K a week for him if his payrise rumours are correct? Whom?
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Black's stupidity in team selection is matched only by the mongrels down the road thinking we will be looking up at the sky whilst a game of football (loose description) is being played on the pitch.
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yeah i'm sure if Traore had come on and done his usual running into blind corners, losing the ball, and not tracking back bit and they scored from one of the inevitable chances, this thread would have been full of congratulatory posts commending Black's commitment to entertainment, rather than the usual "worse manager evoh" posts ..... *winky face*
Yeah because it would have had a massive impact on our season wouldn't it?
Also Traore is a 19 year old who has struggled with injuries and is in his first year in a foreign country. He may have given the ball away a bit, but he's also shown that with nurturing he has immense talent. We'll probably lose him, but I reckon there's a 90% chance we'll all be regretting him not being given a chance when he is a star in 5 years time.
what are you basing this on? Really? A future star? On this season? He's shown glimpses of having raw talent but someone's gonna come in and pay 60K a week for him if his payrise rumours are correct? Whom?
I'm basing it on the bits I've seen of him.
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Yes but we will never know will we?
Because our great caretaking tactician decided to do NOTHING.
So even in a no lose situation, He's failed miserably week after week and we've been forced to endure the footballing equivalent of watching oil based Satinwood dry. (Other oil based finishes available).
I think he's had more than enough opportunity to get some positives out of these games even though its a poor side but he's failed big time resorting to the old pro safe mode which he will be remembered by.
Look at the line-up yesterday? That says it all to me.
well you plays the odds. Chances of Traore scoring or creating an assist is a hell of a lot longer odds than him gifting the ball to the opposition and putting pressure on a midfield and defence who have proved catagorically they can't defend long before Black appeared. I'd have liked him to have played the kids when he took over, but my view has changed because frankly he's not going to be here and possibly damaging the progress of a decent youth player for the sake of short term progress or hope is stupid. His hands are tied - he could blood 5 youngsters and find the new manager doesn't want them or won't play a way that suits them or stick in a kid too early and destroy their confidence all in the name of making us feel happier. Nah, I personally think rather than a no-lose situation, he's in a no-win one.
Sorry but you're just outright wrong in the first line, with your odds, which makes everything after it menaingless. In just over 4 hours of competitive football for the club (1 hour in the cup, 3 hours and a few miuntes in the league) he has 2 assists and a goal and has also put a couple of balls across the 6 yard box that we should've done better with so I'm going to go with 5 key chances, roughly 1 every 48 minutes. In that same time I don't believe there has been a single goal we've conceded that you could point to him as the culprit. I can think of 1 where he was the last villa player to touch the ball before they scored though so I guess we'll count that, so 1 every 240 minutes.
You mentioned odds, the odds are that adama on the pitch for half an hour gives us more chance of scoring a goal that Sinclair being on for that period so no that isn't an acceptable argument unless you're of the mindset that getting a clean sheet is the top priority and scoring is less important. Black has that mindset, so did McLeish. The problem is there's enough quality in top-flight football that even if you're defensively perfect for 89 minutes and 50 seconds a mistake or 2 in the other 10 seconds can be punished and ruin your game plan.
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anyone who plays bacuna is an absolute idiot
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I'm sorry but I just don't see that playing somebody (Grealish,Adama,Gil)is a problem for 30 minutes.
Just because they may upset the robotic no risk mindset by heaven forbid "Running up a blind alley".
I didn't see yesterday and I haven't seen for weeks the likes of Westwood,Sanchez,Bacuna, Sinclair go anywhere near a bloody blind alley.
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Interesting from Black regarding the future of the club.
“There are an awful lot of things going on behind the scenes in terms of a new owner and new manager,” he said.
“It is a phenomenal football club with a phenomenal history, phenomenal support and phenomenal infrastructure and a club that should be in the top six or seven clubs in the country without a doubt.
“It is a fabulous opportunity here. I’m not saying it is going to be easy because the Championship is difficult but if the right people are in place I don’t see any reason why this club can’t bounce back.”
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Nice words. One thing is certain: If we are to climb out of the cesspit that is Div 2 and somehow end up finishing back in the top 6 again, it won't be playing the McLeish or Black way.
We'll actually have to try to score goals and win games.
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Nice words. One thing is certain: If we are to climb out of the cesspit that is Div 2 and somehow end up finishing back in the top 6 again, it won't be playing the McLeish or Black way.
We'll actually have to try to score goals and win games.
Well of course you do but Black took over a side getting hammered every week and utterly demoralised. Being able to defend so you're not having to score twice to get a draw is also going to be important next season
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yeah i'm sure if Traore had come on and done his usual running into blind corners, losing the ball, and not tracking back bit and they scored from one of the inevitable chances, this thread would have been full of congratulatory posts commending Black's commitment to entertainment, rather than the usual "worse manager evoh" posts ..... *winky face*
Yeah because it would have had a massive impact on our season wouldn't it?
Also Traore is a 19 year old who has struggled with injuries and is in his first year in a foreign country. He may have given the ball away a bit, but he's also shown that with nurturing he has immense talent. We'll probably lose him, but I reckon there's a 90% chance we'll all be regretting him not being given a chance when he is a star in 5 years time.
what are you basing this on? Really? A future star? On this season? He's shown glimpses of having raw talent but someone's gonna come in and pay 60K a week for him if his payrise rumours are correct? Whom?
I'm basing it on the bits I've seen of him.
Well its all about opinions, but i can't see anything he's produced that says megastar of the future and i don't think there's loads of clubs waiting in the wings to poach him either. To me most of the hype comes from him arriving from Barca because somehow they'd let a world class talent slip through their fingers whereas if he was from Man U, Chelsea's or Arsenal's youth team, we'd automatically assume he was a player they didn't think would make the grade.
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I know these are supposedly nothing games, but with a sale allegedly in the offing, you don't know what instructions he's getting.
"The prospective new buyers are here on Saturday, for fuck's sake try and get a point or at least keep the score down."
None of us really know what's going on...
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Oh I get it now Dave his previous loses were because we did not have the possible new owners watching, nothing to do with him being crap and not having an attacking thought in his pea sized brain then, thanks for that I understand now. Good old Eric just following instructions.
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I'm sorry but I just don't see that playing somebody (Grealish,Adama,Gil)is a problem for 30 minutes.
Just because they may upset the robotic no risk mindset by heaven forbid "Running up a blind alley".
I didn't see yesterday and I haven't seen for weeks the likes of Westwood,Sanchez,Bacuna, Sinclair go anywhere near a bloody blind alley.
Me neither. After all Black has stuck with pretty much the same line up which has gotten us a total of three league wins all season. And when you are already down you might as well experiment a bit. I would add Kozak to that list of players who deserves a run out. He's been very hashly dealt with this season.
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I'm sorry but I just don't see that playing somebody (Grealish,Adama,Gil)is a problem for 30 minutes.
Just because they may upset the robotic no risk mindset by heaven forbid "Running up a blind alley".
I didn't see yesterday and I haven't seen for weeks the likes of Westwood,Sanchez,Bacuna, Sinclair go anywhere near a bloody blind alley.
Me neither. After all Black has stuck with pretty much the same line up which has gotten us a total of three league wins all season. And when you are already down you might as well experiment a bit. I would add Kozak to that list of players who deserves a run out. He's been very hashly dealt with this season.
Kozak is injured. As I've said before, his run of games coincided perfectly with the one period of the season where we looked capable of staying in the league, he should've been in the side regularly in the first half of the season because he's got enough natural instinct around the box to make us threatening, his lack of game time is the only thing I didn't like about Garde. He's comfortably the best 9 at the club and we've been very unlucky with his injuries, I really think he could've been a big player for us over the last couple of seasons if he'd been fit.
Back to Black (well she was a Villa fan), it's the unwillingness to try to change the game that makes me dislike him. I can live with a game plan to keep it tight for an hour but you have to be willing to change things once you go behind or if you make it to an hour safe but without offering a threat. Regardless of anything else fans want to see that the team are at least trying to win and what we've had is a team trying not to lose too heavily. I don't disagree that the underlying problems are bigger than him but that can't be a free pass for him, if he's making selections that make us weaker than we need to be or that have 'surrender' written all over them then it's perfectly valid to call him out on it. I note (with interest) that we've been much better since Toner came in which further underlines the idea that fans wanting to see a few of the kids isn't some naive idea that a 'proper football man' would never consider is just plain wrong. I'd personally like to have seen Lyden, Grealish, Adama and Davis all get some meaningful game time, I'd have started the first 2 (ahead of Bacuna and Sinclair) and the other 2 would've been given 20-30 minutes in the last couple of games (I'd have Davis ahead of Rushian HM purely because he looks more physically ready for it)
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we can only hope that they are given a chance next season, should they still be with us.
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I know these are supposedly nothing games, but with a sale allegedly in the offing, you don't know what instructions he's getting.
"The prospective new buyers are here on Saturday, for fuck's sake try and get a point or at least keep the score down."
None of us really know what's going on...
This makes sense - start that crap line up, so the new owners will know we need to buy a whole new squad. This way they will not think maybe the talent is there.
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anyone who plays bacuna is an absolute idiot
I was appalled when I saw that he was actually playing him at Centre Half, that said he did well.
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Bacuna didn't want the ball , probably didn't want to be the pitch . Why Black plays him , only he will know.
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Will Eric be on his bike on Sunday , or will he get to clear out his extensive library of coaching manuals on Monday morning?
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Bacuna hasn't been any good since he was dropped for the FA Cup final.
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Bacuna hasn't been any good since he was dropped for the FA Cup final.
That suggests at some point he was "good".
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True, I must apologise. That's an error, he was never good.
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BLACK!
Apologies if this has already been posted...
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BLACK!
Apologies if this has already been posted...
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Bacuna hasn't been any good since he was dropped for the FA Cup final.
None of them have been any good since the Cup Final coming to think of it.
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Bacuna hasn't been any good since he was dropped for the FA Cup final.
None of them have been any good since the Cup Final coming to think of it.
They weren't any good in the Cup Final!
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Bacuna hasn't been any good since he was dropped for the FA Cup final.
None of them have been any good since the Cup Final coming to think of it.
None of them have been any good since the first half against W Ham exactly a year ago.
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Just one more week Eric and you are released from this nightmare you are so public about.
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the lord have mercy!
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BLACK!
Apologies if this has already been posted...
Thanks Bad English
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You're welcome.
Black is welcome to fuck off to the UEFA lecture circuit with his 35 years of medals and stats.
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Just one more week Eric and you are released from this nightmare you are so public about.
Black: I don't know why I took the job.
Lambert: I tried to resign.
Eat shit and die, you pair of dullards.
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Actually, given what tossers they are, I hope they both live until they are 1,000.
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One Scottish caretaker manager at a relegated club got the message:
"There must, however be a danger that those who found something better to do on a gorgeous evening in Dundee may still be feeling the same way when more is at stake come August, scunnered as they have been by the lack of appetite too often shown by those they have turned up to offer their backing these past nine months.
While Gordon Young, their caretaker boss, made an attempt to entice them in last night by introducing youngsters Harry Souttar and Matthew Smith to the staring XI, he has identified as players he believes offer hope for the future..."
From the Glasgow Herald report on Dundee Utd 3-3 Partick
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Actually, given what tossers they are, I hope they both live until they are 1,000.
I hope they date each other and have to share meals and conversation every day until they both are 1,000.
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I totally agree
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He's becoming a parody of himself now: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-youngster-tipped-eric-11322707
Eric Black is tipping Jack Grealish to have a "big impact" at Aston Villa this season despite failing to select him in any of his starting line-ups this term.
Grealish has been restricted to substitute cameos against Chelsea, Bournemouth and Southampton during Black's seven match caretaker reign.
The 20-year-old attacking midfielder could start against Arsenal this weekend, but Black insists next season is when the youngster could shine.
"Jack is an outstanding young player, no question," said Black.
"He's got a great future with this club. He's not in the side at the moment - it's just a personal choice you make as a coach.
"What I would say is that he's a fantastic footballer, a great lad and he's working hard.
"I am sure he will have a big impact next season."
So he can't even justify to himself why he's not given Grealish a decent amount of time when he thinks he's an outstanding player with a great future a club.
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He's becoming a parody of himself now: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-youngster-tipped-eric-11322707
Eric Black is tipping Jack Grealish to have a "big impact" at Aston Villa this season despite failing to select him in any of his starting line-ups this term.
Grealish has been restricted to substitute cameos against Chelsea, Bournemouth and Southampton during Black's seven match caretaker reign.
The 20-year-old attacking midfielder could start against Arsenal this weekend, but Black insists next season is when the youngster could shine.
"Jack is an outstanding young player, no question," said Black.
"He's got a great future with this club. He's not in the side at the moment - it's just a personal choice you make as a coach.
"What I would say is that he's a fantastic footballer, a great lad and he's working hard.
"I am sure he will have a big impact next season."
So he can't even justify to himself why he's not given Grealish a decent amount of time when he thinks he's an outstanding player with a great future a club.
Indeed. The man is a moron of extraordinary magnitude. Thank God he'll be gone after the weekend.
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"Jack is an outstanding young player, no question," said Black.
"He's got a great future with this club. He's not in the side at the moment - it's just a personal choice you make as a coach. But I remember reading once that Kieran Richardson played for Man Utd. And Bacuna's Dutch. And apparently the Dutch are good at football. So... y'know.
Fixed.
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"Jack is an outstanding young player, no question," said Black.
"He's got a great future with this club. He's not in the side at the moment - it's just a personal choice you make as a coach. But I remember reading once that Kieran Richardson played for Man Utd. And Bacuna's Dutch. And apparently the Dutch are good at football. So... y'know.
Fixed.
"Richardson played for sir alex and so did I so I'll play him because he must be brilliant".
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I think it's wise and sensible words. He's dealing with a kid and simply saying 'you're a great player son, show the next manager'. He doesn't need to be involved now other than us to suck the confidence out of him. Jack will be back and I think Black has done well here.
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Are you are being ironic? Try as I might I cannot find any objective form of measurement to Black's mercifully brief tenure that proves any competency at all. A total knobhead and tool of Ireland-esque proportions.
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Just seen his interview on MOTD.
The c*** just does not get it, does he.
I've only just got round to watching it. I know he's been dropped into this situation, but come on, he can't really believe that, can he? That a performance like that, by Aston Villa, at home, with two shots, neither on target, no corners, against a side destined for relegation, would generate that response? I realise he's obliged to speak to the media, but surely there's something else he could've said. I dunno if you've fucking noticed, Eric, but things aren't all rosy in the garden.
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I think it's wise and sensible words. He's dealing with a kid and simply saying 'you're a great player son, show the next manager'. He doesn't need to be involved now other than us to suck the confidence out of him. Jack will be back and I think Black has done well here.
Say the word Peter and I'll send a couple of local wrong uns round to Black's house to get those incriminating photos he has of you.
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It clearly suggests Jack's father has had a word in Black's shell like and said "you piss off Jack like you have pissed off Jores Okore and Adama Traore and he puts in a transfer request".
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Yet Reme is an intelligent and charming man who was shafted by the hand he was dealt? And had a nice French accent.
The hypocrisy on this topic is unbelievable.
Black had an impossible job. Everyone says he should have thrown the kids in, but what would it have achieved? Them suffer the ignominy of relegation and the poisonous atmosphere instead of the ****** who got us there in the first place? And don't kid yourselves that the kids would have been cheered. Once the 5th and 6th goals went in the crowd would have turned.
Yes, he's presided over some dire and negative performance. But I really don't know what people expected of him. Obviously he's not achieved much positive (although he did get a point against Newcastle) but bearing in mind what came before, what on earth did people expect?
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The kids are better than the shit on the pitch.
If you believe there's no youth player who could contribute more than gormless Bacuna, anonymous Sinclair or serial pointer Westwood then there's no telling you.
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Yet Reme is an intelligent and charming man who was shafted by the hand he was dealt? And had a nice French accent.
The hypocrisy on this topic is unbelievable.
Black had an impossible job. Everyone says he should have thrown the kids in, but what would it have achieved? Them suffer the ignominy of relegation and the poisonous atmosphere instead of the c***s who got us there in the first place? And don't kid yourselves that the kids would have been cheered. Once the 5th and 6th goals went in the crowd would have turned.
Yes, he's presided over some dire and negative performance. But I really don't know what people expected of him. Obviously he's not achieved much positive (although he did get a point against Newcastle) but bearing in mind what came before, what on earth did people expect?
Well, if the expectation of Black was to have half a dozen limp, pointless performances with the same players and nothing new tried, why not just carry on with Garde until the end of the season?
He would probably have managed the same thing.
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Because the players hated Garde and Garde hated being here.
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I think it's wise and sensible words. He's dealing with a kid and simply saying 'you're a great player son, show the next manager'. He doesn't need to be involved now other than us to suck the confidence out of him. Jack will be back and I think Black has done well here.
Blimey, you've got on the sauce early today.
Edit: So early, in fact, that you were still on it yesterday!
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Honestly Chris, with that attitude you deserve failure.
People don't like Black because, whilst we all knew relegation was a certainty, we wanted to see was a light at the end of the tunnel, playing with a bit of flair and showing that we have the attacking players to fire us back up at the first time of asking. What we got was a manager who has tried (badly) to make us harder to beat but has completely missed the fact that we'd already lost. It's like making subs to 'defend' a 1-0 defeat and that pointlessness has created the anger.
Garde got a lot of things wrong but he was trying to do the right things, Black has got things wrong whilst trying to do something that is fundamentally wrong for both his role at the club and the position we're in. For that the former gets some sympathy whilst the latter gets none, there's no hypocrisy there.
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Because the players hated Garde and Garde hated being here.
If they did, then tough. He's not employed to be their friend.
And if he did, he was welcome to resign.
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The kids are better than the shit on the pitch.
If you believe there's no youth player who could contribute more than gormless Bacuna, anonymous Sinclair or serial pointer Westwood then there's no telling you.
Thing is actually, no, the kids aren't better which is why they haven' been involved.
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The kids are better than the shit on the pitch.
If you believe there's no youth player who could contribute more than gormless Bacuna, anonymous Sinclair or serial pointer Westwood then there's no telling you.
Thing is actually, no, the kids aren't better which is why they haven' been involved.
That is just guess work because we haven't seen them play.
Black is a plodder and probably well suited to being a coach where he has to carry out the bidding of those above but seems to lack the drive and confidence needed to be in charge.
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The kids are better than the shit on the pitch.
If you believe there's no youth player who could contribute more than gormless Bacuna, anonymous Sinclair or serial pointer Westwood then there's no telling you.
Thing is actually, no, the kids aren't better which is why they haven' been involved.
Do you believe Scott Sinclair is better than Jack Grealish?
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Honestly Chris, with that attitude you deserve failure.
People don't like Black because, whilst we all knew relegation was a certainty, we wanted to see was a light at the end of the tunnel, playing with a bit of flair and showing that we have the attacking players to fire us back up at the first time of asking. What we got was a manager who has tried (badly) to make us harder to beat but has completely missed the fact that we'd already lost. It's like making subs to 'defend' a 1-0 defeat and that pointlessness has created the anger.
Garde got a lot of things wrong but he was trying to do the right things, Black has got things wrong whilst trying to do something that is fundamentally wrong for both his role at the club and the position we're in. For that the former gets some sympathy whilst the latter gets none, there's no hypocrisy there.
I just disagree with you. There are different view points on throwing the kids into a lost cause. It may have worked and it may have been hugely counter productive.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Black has done a good job, but neither do I think he has done worse than the clowns before him. I just can't rationalise the sympathy for Remi against the hatred for Black. And I can only put that down to the fact one sounds like Wegner and the other like Mcleish.
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Garde got a lot of things wrong but he was trying to do the right things, Black has got things wrong whilst trying to do something that is fundamentally wrong for both his role at the club and the position we're in. For that the former gets some sympathy whilst the latter gets none, there's no hypocrisy there.
and I think there is shitloads of hypocrisy there. They have broadly picked the same teams. How was one doing the right thing and the other a ******?
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I think Black just hates us. The club and fans. There can be no other reason as incompetence would at least have seen him try something different/more ludicrous.
This convoluted blather about Jack is like he has been asked a question and then given three unrelated words to construct a response from. Him and Kevmac act as if they are from previous Golden Age of coaching and tactics that has been surpassed but they have returned to punish us for our heresy.
Yes - I really dislike him
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I think Black just hates us. The club and fans. There can be no other reason as incompetence would at least have seen him try something different/more ludicrous.
This convoluted blather about Jack is like he has been asked a question and then given three unrelated words to construct a response from. Him and Kevmac act as if they are from previous Golden Age of coaching and tactics that has been surpassed but they have returned to punish us for our heresy.
Yes - I really dislike him
The Jack quotes - he's trying to do the lad a favour. Boost him for next year. That doesn't sound like someone who hates the club.
Why isn't he playing him? Dunno, why didn't Remi Play him? Maybe he is not putting it in in training. Maybe his confidence is shot and he thinks it would be counter productive? Maybe they've had a fallout? Who knows. But without knowing full facts, it's tough on Black to lay all the blame at his door.
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Garde got a lot of things wrong but he was trying to do the right things, Black has got things wrong whilst trying to do something that is fundamentally wrong for both his role at the club and the position we're in. For that the former gets some sympathy whilst the latter gets none, there's no hypocrisy there.
and I think there is shitloads of hypocrisy there. They have broadly picked the same teams. How was one doing the right thing and the other a c***?
because one of them was planning on being the manager for the long term, the other is a caretaker who had to hold the fort for a month or 2 and try not to piss the fans any more than they were already, that's the context that you're missing.
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If Black wanted to give Grealish a boost then maybe he could have given him some play time...
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by playing the same old clowns he (EB) has almost wilfully pissed the fans off, whereas if he'd had the courage to be inventive with his team selections he would have won a few friends. You can't win with a losing hand
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Garde got a lot of things wrong but he was trying to do the right things, Black has got things wrong whilst trying to do something that is fundamentally wrong for both his role at the club and the position we're in. For that the former gets some sympathy whilst the latter gets none, there's no hypocrisy there.
and I think there is shitloads of hypocrisy there. They have broadly picked the same teams. How was one doing the right thing and the other a c***?
because one of them was planning on being the manager for the long term, the other is a caretaker who had to hold the fort for a month or 2 and try not to piss the fans any more than they were already, that's the context that you're missing.
Remi had given up. He wasn't planning for the future, he knew we were down and was going through the motions. He was picking the same ****** Black is. If he was building for the future he could easily have tried something new, but chose not to. So yes, it is absolutely hypocritical to slag one off and not the other.
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If Black wanted to give Grealish a boost then maybe he could have given him some play time...
Maybe he isn't up to it at the moment? He hasn't done anything all season and Remi didn't pick him either. We really don't know the reasons do we?
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Just to sumarise my thinking here. I don't particularly like Black and and don't think he has done a great job. But equally, he's been in charge for 6 games and took over an impossible position. There are arguments for and against chucking in the kids, other than Toner he's chosen not to. Whether I agree with that or not, I can understand why.
But my real point is I just think the level of vitriol and hate is massively disproportionate to his role in the total clusterfuck of this season. And specifically, singling him out so much whilst Remi gets off the hook just seems entirely unreasonable.
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Just to sumarise my thinking here. I don't particularly like Black and and don't think he has done a great job. But equally, he's been in charge for 6 games and took over an impossible position. There are arguments for and against chucking in the kids, other than Toner he's chosen not to. Whether I agree with that or not, I can understand why.
But my real point is I just think the level of vitriol and hate is massively disproportionate to his role in the total clusterfuck of this season. And specifically, singling him out so much whilst Remi gets off the hook just seems entirely unreasonable.
I don't hate him, I just think he's completely misunderstood the mood of the fans and the needs of the club and has created a lot more hostility than he needed to. The difference between him and Garde is that you could see the point of what he was trying to do. He didn't do it very well and he got sacked because of that but it was understandable. What's not understandable is picking 5 at the back and 3 holding midfielders at home to a side that are in the bottom 3 when you're already relegated. As you say that's his choice but it's one that the fans see as cowardly, to exacerbate that by not making any changes until the 85th minute just screams of surrender and after all the shit we've put up with that's just not acceptable.
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that team he picked for the last game of the season for the fans was an absolute disgrace
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that team he picked for the last game of the season for the fans was an absolute disgrace
The team that got our first point in in the last 12 games? The team that kept our first clean sheet since February? The team that stopped Newcastle fans jubilantly dancing on our graves? You mean that team?
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If Black wanted to give Grealish a boost then maybe he could have given him some play time...
Maybe he isn't up to it at the moment? He hasn't done anything all season and Remi didn't pick him either. We really don't know the reasons do we?
Black says his decision not to pick him a personal one (by Black) - what the hell that is supposed to mean is anyone's guess. The issue I have with Black is that he opens his gob and muddies the waters even more - maybe he is just thick then?
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that team he picked for the last game of the season for the fans was an absolute disgrace
The team that got our first point in in the last 12 games? The team that kept our first clean sheet since February? The team that stopped Newcastle fans jubilantly dancing on our graves? You mean that team?
Roughly the same team that had lost every previous game Black was in charge of you mean? Was he training them up specifically for this last glorious effort?
I do agree with your comments on previous managers shortcomings however...
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If Black wanted to give Grealish a boost then maybe he could have given him some play time...
Maybe he isn't up to it at the moment? He hasn't done anything all season and Remi didn't pick him either. We really don't know the reasons do we?
Black says his decision not to pick him a personal one (by Black) - what the hell that is supposed to mean is anyone's guess. The issue I have with Black is that he opens his gob and muddies the waters even more - maybe he is just thick then?
Would you prefer it if he said 'Jack just hasn't been trying in training' or 'Jack's confidence is so shot and he's a liability at the moment' or 'Jack turned up pissed the other day' etc. All hypothetical of course but sometimes it's better to not say something. We just don't know the facts, that's why I think it is harsh to crucify the guy for this one decision, particularly when Remi didn't fancy him either.
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arguing over the required level of opprobrium for Garde v Black is like debating who is the taller dwarf. All I want now is for this dreadful season to be over with.
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Just to sumarise my thinking here. I don't particularly like Black and and don't think he has done a great job. But equally, he's been in charge for 6 games and took over an impossible position. There are arguments for and against chucking in the kids, other than Toner he's chosen not to. Whether I agree with that or not, I can understand why.
But my real point is I just think the level of vitriol and hate is massively disproportionate to his role in the total clusterfuck of this season. And specifically, singling him out so much whilst Remi gets off the hook just seems entirely unreasonable.
I don't hate him, I just think he's completely misunderstood the mood of the fans and the needs of the club and has created a lot more hostility than he needed to. The difference between him and Garde is that you could see the point of what he was trying to do. He didn't do it very well and he got sacked because of that but it was understandable. What's not understandable is picking 5 at the back and 3 holding midfielders at home to a side that are in the bottom 3 when you're already relegated. As you say that's his choice but it's one that the fans see as cowardly, to exacerbate that by not making any changes until the 85th minute just screams of surrender and after all the shit we've put up with that's just not acceptable.
So Black's job is simply to gauge and assuage the mood of the fans? That is simply not the case. Plus I think it's the other way round I can see what Black is trying to do with the team selections in trying to tighten us up whereas Garde , well i'm still not too sure what he tried to do. i don't necessarily blame the managers for that but the players at his disposal. no point playing wing-backs when you have Cissokho and Hutton. No point playing a 4 in midfield if you don't have natural width or players that can exact change when they get on the ball.
No point playing two up front if we don't pass or cross effectively. I think Black and Garde have tried to chop and change the starting line-up to try and luckily finds one that works. In all fairness we should have had 4 points from the last 2 games and we did play well at Watford (ish) and he did manage to avoid having the worst record in terms of consecutive defeats by being negative.
Going gung-ho would have been crazy, trying to attack more would have been crazy as we haven't shown that we're adept at very much all season.The mood of the crowd isn't going to be heightened by Black losing 7-1 every week even though we've attacked more and played more kids.
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Just to sumarise my thinking here. I don't particularly like Black and and don't think he has done a great job. But equally, he's been in charge for 6 games and took over an impossible position. There are arguments for and against chucking in the kids, other than Toner he's chosen not to. Whether I agree with that or not, I can understand why.
But my real point is I just think the level of vitriol and hate is massively disproportionate to his role in the total clusterfuck of this season. And specifically, singling him out so much whilst Remi gets off the hook just seems entirely unreasonable.
I don't hate him, I just think he's completely misunderstood the mood of the fans and the needs of the club and has created a lot more hostility than he needed to. The difference between him and Garde is that you could see the point of what he was trying to do. He didn't do it very well and he got sacked because of that but it was understandable. What's not understandable is picking 5 at the back and 3 holding midfielders at home to a side that are in the bottom 3 when you're already relegated. As you say that's his choice but it's one that the fans see as cowardly, to exacerbate that by not making any changes until the 85th minute just screams of surrender and after all the shit we've put up with that's just not acceptable.
So Black's job is simply to gauge and assuage the mood of the fans? That is simply not the case. Plus I think it's the other way round I can see what Black is trying to do with the team selections in trying to tighten us up whereas Garde , well i'm still not too sure what he tried to do. i don't necessarily blame the managers for that but the players at his disposal. no point playing wing-backs when you have Cissokho and Hutton. No point playing a 4 in midfield if you don't have natural width or players that can exact change when they get on the ball.
No point playing two up front if we don't pass or cross effectively. I think Black and Garde have tried to chop and change the starting line-up to try and luckily finds one that works. In all fairness we should have had 4 points from the last 2 games and we did play well at Watford (ish) and he did manage to avoid having the worst record in terms of consecutive defeats by being negative.
Going gung-ho would have been crazy, trying to attack more would have been crazy as we haven't shown that we're adept at very much all season.The mood of the crowd isn't going to be heightened by Black losing 7-1 every week even though we've attacked more and played more kids.
Using the bold bit in defence of Black after that's exactly what he did against Watford.
Why do you assume people want gung-ho? I just think not having a single shot on target at home to a team that are going down with you is shameful.
Oh and back to the first line, yes that is his job, he's a caretaker, his responsibility is to not make things worse but, by his selections, he's pissed the fans off enough to make the atmosphere worse than it needed to be. On that measure he has failed in the 1 key thing he should be judged on. Results, clean sheets, goals scored, none of those were going to make or break his reputation (unless he got a 100% win record and kept us up) but treating the fans like morons and picking a team that gets booed when it's announced has broken him as far as most Villa fans are concerned.
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If Black wanted to give Grealish a boost then maybe he could have given him some play time...
Maybe he isn't up to it at the moment? He hasn't done anything all season and Remi didn't pick him either. We really don't know the reasons do we?
Maybe, but then again maybe you are making it up, we don't know. What we do know is he hasn't picked him and has picked complete plodders instead, all the facts from his team selections and ''tactics'' point to a safety first mentality.
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The least Black could have done was try and entertain the long suffering fans by picking Grealish and/or Traore in some of his home games, rather than the tried and failed Richardson, Sinclair, etc.
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If Black wanted to give Grealish a boost then maybe he could have given him some play time...
Maybe he isn't up to it at the moment? He hasn't done anything all season and Remi didn't pick him either. We really don't know the reasons do we?
Maybe, but then again maybe you are making it up, we don't know. What we do know is he hasn't picked him and has picked complete plodders instead, all the facts from his team selections and ''tactics'' point to a safety first mentality.
I'm not making anything up. I'm just saying we don't know why he hasn't picked him. Maybe for similar reasons that Remi didn't pick him very much in the worst team in Villa history either? He just hasn't done it this season for whatever reason. Black has been gracious enough to try to give him a boost for next season and he gets pelters for it? People need to get a grip. Black isn't the reason we are where we are today.
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The least Black could have done was try and entertain the long suffering fans by picking Grealish and/or Traore in some of his home games, rather than the tried and failed Richardson, Sinclair, etc.
Even if he doesn't want to start them for some reason both have shown that they can come on and influence games and yet they've been given a few minutes each despite us looking incapable of creating anything like a decent chance.
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that team he picked for the last game of the season for the fans was an absolute disgrace
The team that got our first point in in the last 12 games? The team that kept our first clean sheet since February? The team that stopped Newcastle fans jubilantly dancing on our graves? You mean that team?
Wow, way to describe a dismal 0-0 with the next worst team in the league.
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Why? We don't know how Grealish has done in training? He has hardly set the world on fire when he has played so maybe BlACK'S FEELING IS THAT HE'LL TAKE HIM OUT OF THE FIRING LINE FOR THE REST OF THIS (I'll stop shouting) season and he can start witha f resh slate next season. As for Adama I don't know. But he has played little this season under any of the managers when fit, which hasn't been often.
Maybe he doesn't fit the shape at the moment, isn't ready, maybe Black's protecting him because he's been injuried quitye often after getting a start.
The manager must look after the youngsters as much as possible and that also means at times not throwing them in simply because the fans want them to play. Say he had played the pair of them and they had been crap, what then? If this was September and they were both match fit and the team were losing every game then I'd question the decision. But in April/May when a caretaker manager comes into a struggling team, that the fans have already turned on, that is seeing turmoil upstairs, that has seen relegation?? What's the point?
for the fans? The fans already make playing at Villa difficult for Villa players and it's not like we've seen anything this season that suggests Adama, Grealish, or whichever name out of the hat that you want to throw in would suddenly brighten the shite.
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that team he picked for the last game of the season for the fans was an absolute disgrace
The team that got our first point in in the last 12 games? The team that kept our first clean sheet since February? The team that stopped Newcastle fans jubilantly dancing on our graves? You mean that team?
Wow, way to describe a dismal 0-0 with the next worst team in the league.
Yes Newcastle were shit and so were we. However, we've been like this all season. What makes anyone think picking any other players that we've used would make things any different? Its almost like people are believing that black is just refusing to pick our world beaters just because he hates us. He's picking what he's picking because they're all as shit as each other.
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Why? We don't know how Grealish has done in training? He has hardly set the world on fire when he has played so maybe BlACK'S FEELING IS THAT HE'LL TAKE HIM OUT OF THE FIRING LINE FOR THE REST OF THIS (I'll stop shouting) season and he can start witha f resh slate next season. As for Adama I don't know. But he has played little this season under any of the managers when fit, which hasn't been often.
Maybe he doesn't fit the shape at the moment, isn't ready, maybe Black's protecting him because he's been injuried quitye often after getting a start.
The manager must look after the youngsters as much as possible and that also means at times not throwing them in simply because the fans want them to play. Say he had played the pair of them and they had been crap, what then? If this was September and they were both match fit and the team were losing every game then I'd question the decision. But in April/May when a caretaker manager comes into a struggling team, that the fans have already turned on, that is seeing turmoil upstairs, that has seen relegation?? What's the point?
for the fans? The fans already make playing at Villa difficult for Villa players and it's not like we've seen anything this season that suggests Adama, Grealish, or whichever name out of the hat that you want to throw in would suddenly brighten the shite.
As soon as you write that, it makes me think don't attend matches very often.
These aren't names plucked out of a hat, one has just been picked in an England Under-21 squad, the other was on Barcelona's books and had a valuation of £7m less than a year ago. Also, throwing the one youngster in so far that he has, Toner, did 'brighten the shite' slightly imo.
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He doesn't need to play all the kids to play some slightly more attacking football. The use of kids can be argued for ages, I get both views (I personally would). There is no excuse for the defensive football he has played regardless.
Black and Buttler are on the wicket and Black has been given a free hit. Buttler goes up to him and says 'Aim for middle leg and get some height on it... easy boundary'. Black - 'Nah, I'll go defensive. Might nick a run'. Buttler - 'What's the point? Just go for it, what is to lose? You might even look good'.
I have no fucking idea what his response would be. I can't think why he's setting up like he is. It would probably piss me off anyway.
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Toner has been given a chance so we'll see where he goes with it. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he'll do anything for us other than be an extra defensive body rather than Richards or Okore.
Not sure what your point is about the emboldened bit. You think Villa Park has been great for the players over the past few months?
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Adama has brightened the shite pretty much every time he's played. I'm struggling to think of any appearance he's made where he doesn't done something exciting and caused the opposition problems.
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He's raw granted, and has a lot of speed but too many blind alleys at the moment. Personally I'd like to see him start but given that appears to have chocolate ankles or legs I'd be quite happy for him to have the rest of the time off until August. i don't want him to play now just so I can get excited to see him running past an Arsenal player at full pelt.
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Adama does run down blind alleys , that's because he's inexperienced, keeping him on the bench until he no longer does that isn't a solution. Aside from that have Bacuna and Sinclair done anything to warrant staying in the team ahead of him? There have been some comments about training but we can't take that into account, only what we can see, and what we see is that players who are proven to not be good enough are still playing ahead of guys who just might make us a better team.
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Toner has been given a chance so we'll see where he goes with it. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he'll do anything for us other than be an extra defensive body rather than Richards or Okore.
Not sure what your point is about the emboldened bit. You think Villa Park has been great for the players over the past few months?
I disagree that the fans make it difficult for players to play at VP, the likes of Lescott and Bacuna have had a hard time for a couple of months because of a series of high-profile gaffes off the pitch, so they have brought it on themselves. I highly doubt any young player thrown in to play at VP would find it a difficult atmosphere to play in, infact Toner's comments were 'Last home game of the season and have to say what an atmosphere' after the Newcastle game.
As for Traore, by continuing to leave him out as you suggest, the chances of him wanting to stick around next season can only decrease, he's had two injuries through the whole season and one was caused by playing against League 2 plodders.
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Adama does run down blind alleys , that's because he's inexperienced, keeping him on the bench until he no longer does that isn't a solution. Aside from that have Bacuna and Sinclair done anything to warrant staying in the team ahead of him? There have been some comments about training but we can't take that into account, only what we can see, and what we see is that players who are proven to not be good enough are still playing ahead of guys who just might make us a better team.
But there must be a reason 3 managers this season have not played Adama (injuries aside) so there must be a reason behind that. It can't just be let's play him and see what he'll do - as I said I would like to see more of him - but those that are more knowledgeable and closer to what is actually going on haven't fancied him. With that he can't just be picked because the fans want him to be and he can't be used as a stick to beat Black's selection policy with.
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Toner has been given a chance so we'll see where he goes with it. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he'll do anything for us other than be an extra defensive body rather than Richards or Okore.
Not sure what your point is about the emboldened bit. You think Villa Park has been great for the players over the past few months?
I disagree that the fans make it difficult for players to play at VP, the likes of Lescott and Bacuna have had a hard time for a couple of months because of a series of high-profile gaffes off the pitch, so they have brought it on themselves. I highly doubt any young player thrown in to play at VP would find it a difficult atmosphere to play in, infact Toner's comments were 'Last home game of the season and have to say what an atmosphere' after the Newcastle game.
As for Traore, by continuing to leave him out as you suggest, the chances of him wanting to stick around next season can only decrease, he's had two injuries through the whole season and one was caused by playing against League 2 plodders.
Are you serious? Thev'e make it almost impossible for the last 2 months with the ridiculous booing (which is another debate). The atmosphere has been absolutely fucking poisonous. It was good against Newcastle as we didn't concede and were laughing at them again. Do you think it would have been so good if we had gone all gung-ho and they had scored a few?
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Admittedly I've only been to three matches at Villa Park this season but it's laughable to suggest the support have made it difficult for the players, with our home record over the last three seasons our support has been incredibly patient. The very few players that got stick thoroughly deserved it, Lyden got a tremendous reception when his name was read out at the Bournemouth match.
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Admittedly I've only been to three matches at Villa Park this season but it's laughable to suggest the support have made it difficult for the players, with our home record over the last three seasons our support has been incredibly patient. The very few players that got stick thoroughly deserved it, Lyden got a tremendous reception when his name was read out at the Bournemouth match.
Very specific players were booed - some basically ignored - a few clapped - and every youngster cheered. Several times the level of positive support has been superb; on 74 minutes the noise has been ramped up further.
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"Absolutely fucking poisonous" is a tad over the top. A few specific players getting booed and some songs against the owner. It's hardly been a cauldron of hate.
Besides, what were the excuses for them being shit at home for at least the previous 5 years prior to the last couple of months?
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Toner has been given a chance so we'll see where he goes with it. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he'll do anything for us other than be an extra defensive body rather than Richards or Okore.
Not sure what your point is about the emboldened bit. You think Villa Park has been great for the players over the past few months?
I disagree that the fans make it difficult for players to play at VP, the likes of Lescott and Bacuna have had a hard time for a couple of months because of a series of high-profile gaffes off the pitch, so they have brought it on themselves. I highly doubt any young player thrown in to play at VP would find it a difficult atmosphere to play in, infact Toner's comments were 'Last home game of the season and have to say what an atmosphere' after the Newcastle game.
As for Traore, by continuing to leave him out as you suggest, the chances of him wanting to stick around next season can only decrease, he's had two injuries through the whole season and one was caused by playing against League 2 plodders.
Are you serious? Thev'e make it almost impossible for the last 2 months with the ridiculous booing (which is another debate). The atmosphere has been absolutely fucking poisonous. It was good against Newcastle as we didn't concede and were laughing at them again. Do you think it would have been so good if we had gone all gung-ho and they had scored a few?
Yep I'm deadly serious. 2 players getting booed for around 2-3 months max, which they brought on themselves with their behaviour/comments, does not mean that VP is a difficult place for our players to play. The atmosphere was very good for most games for the first 6 months of this season, in the hope that it might help things improve. Despite it being the worst season any of our fans can remember, they still made the Newcastle game an atmosphere better than anywhere else in the country, and get behind players who give their all for the shirt (which tends to be kids rather than mercenaries like Lescott/Richards/Bacuna).
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arguing over the required level of opprobrium for Garde v Black is like debating who is the taller dwarf. All I want now is for this dreadful season to be over with.
Haha! Garde is definitely the taller dwarf of the two.
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There was a moment in the second half against Bournemouth when a roar went round the ground and there followed a 15 minute spell of non stop singing in support of Aston Villa which the opposition supporters applauded. I can't think of too many grounds where that would happen if the team were performing as ours were.
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"Absolutely fucking poisonous" is a tad over the top. A few specific players getting booed and some songs against the owner. It's hardly been a cauldron of hate.
Besides, what were the excuses for them being shit at home for at least the previous 5 years prior to the last couple of months?
The specific debate has been about the last 6 weeks not the last 5 seasons and in particular about introducing young players into the difficult atmosphere. No matter how much people kid themselves it has all been 'targeted booing' is has led to a generally negative atmosphere in the ground that would effect the whole team. Black went on record as saying he didn't think it was a good idea introducing kids into that melting pot. This has been debated elsewhere and people will never agree. But the person who counts - Eric Black - made it clear he thought the atmosphere was counter productive. So yes, the fans have made it difficult for players at VP over the last 2 months.
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It's still not "absolutely fucking poisonous" or anywhere near that.
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Semantics isn't it? I think it was. Eric Black thinks it was. Several pundits and reporters commented on it. Whether it was just poisonous, absofuckinglutely poisonous or just generally very difficult, the result was the same.
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No. It isn't semantics, when someone says we are creating an absolutely fucking poisonous atmosphere when we aren't, it's more than semantics. Several pundits and commentators say we're fickle, bang on about British managers etc it's just fucking lazy and stupid.
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No. It isn't semantics, when someone says we are creating an absolutely fucking poisonous atmosphere when we aren't, it's more than semantics. Several pundits and commentators say we're fickle, bang on about British managers etc it's just fucking lazy and stupid.
Just so long as you don't think it was poisionous PWS, that's all that matters. Don't worry about what the acting manager of the football club thinks. The one who was making the decisions whether to play the youngsters or not.
"Villa suffered another home defeat on Saturday, losing 4-2 to Southampton just a week after their relegation to the Championship was confirmed.
Some supporters have called on Black to ditch players who took the club down and give younger players a chance in the first team.
But Black says he is scared of exposing young players to the toxic atmosphere at Villa’s home games, which has reached a crescendo in recent weeks.
‘I’m fearful of that [fielding younger players]. I don’t want this to be detrimental,’ he said. ‘This is a difficult atmosphere for young players to play in. Certainly the home games’."
http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/25/eric-black-says-aston-villa-fans-are-to-blame-for-him-not-picking-young-players-5839363/#ixzz48Y4KWKoL
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Well you seem to think your opinion that it is poisonous is all that matters. I've never said it hasn't been negative at times, which is a world apart from your "absolutely fucking poisonous" hyperbole. And Eric Black has thought playing Bacuna and Richardson is a good idea, which nicely covers what I think of his expert opinion.
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And Eric Black has thought playing Bacuna and Richardson is a good idea, which nicely covers what I think of his expert opinion.
You've posted pretty much word for word what I was going to post!
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Well you seem to think your opinion that it is poisonous is all that matters. I've never said it hasn't been negative at times, which is a world apart from your "absolutely fucking poisonous" hyperbole. And Eric Black has thought playing Bacuna and Richardson is a good idea, which nicely covers what I think of his expert opinion.
We'll never agree. But it was bad enough to effect the coaches decision on which players to field. If that's not enough for you, I really don't know what is.
Maybe next time on a post match thread I see you say the players were fucking awful, maybe I'll interrogate you as to whether they really were fucking awful, or maybe just poor or perhaps just a bit below par. ok?
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Interpret it how you like if it makes you happy and it's easier than admitting you over exaggerated.
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I don't think I exaggerated. I think the atmosphere has been fucking poisonous. I think it effected the players. I have proved it effected the coaches decision on selection. I think you are wrong and you decided to make a point out of nothing. Is that fucking clear enough for you?
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I said it was a tad over the top to describe it as that, which you've decided to take issue with. As I said, whatever makes you happy.
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The piss being correctly ripped out of Lescott for his car tweet and the booing of some of the idiotic senior players is a long way from "poisonous".
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some snakes are poisonous.
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I don't think I exaggerated. I think the atmosphere has been fucking poisonous. I think it effected the players. I have proved it effected the coaches decision on selection. I think you are wrong and you decided to make a point out of nothing. Is that fucking clear enough for you?
There is clearly a correlation between the performance of the players and the atmosphere in the ground, in that much you are right. The problem is you have it the wrong way round; poor application, questionable attitude and terrible performances from a number of those on the pitch translated to the support turning against them.
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I don't think I exaggerated. I think the atmosphere has been fucking poisonous. I think it effected the players. I have proved it effected the coaches decision on selection. I think you are wrong and you decided to make a point out of nothing. Is that fucking clear enough for you?
Well if you think the atmosphere has been poisonous - I'd steer well clear of the fixtures vs SHA next season. Oh, and with regard to our poor ol' manager & players being detrimentally affected by the so-called "poisonous atmosphere": had they shown anything equating to even a modicum of professionalism, pride and application, then perhaps they'd have got a lot more support - rather than the clog their 'efforts' deserved.
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A random aside on playing the kids. When I last spoke with Fox (a matter of days before he went) he suggested that Garde planned to play the kids but not until we got the big R after our name. Adds nothing really but thought I would share.
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I actually think the support has been quite special recently. Yes, there has been the targeted booing - if Mr Black wants to keep picking the wastrals, what do you expect? - but the general level of support for the club has been exceptional; and commented upon by oppo fans.
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I think our support has been absolutely brilliant. Any poison began in the dressing and board rooms and spread onto the pitch. What was chucked back at them from the stands was mild compared to what the arseholes have heaped upon us.
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I think our support has been absolutely brilliant. Any poison began in the dressing and board rooms and spread onto the pitch. What was chucked back at them from the stands was mild compared to what the arseholes have heaped upon us.
I think the away fans have been great. The home? Not so much.
Edit - actually I'll clarify this - I agree for most of the season the home fans were very good and very patient. My personal opinion though was that the negativity towards the end went a bit too far and I genuinely felt it did effect the players.
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I think the thing that some are losing sight of is that the season was dead a long time ago and we should have been looking to move on and look to the future. For me, the teams he has been picking was as far from that as possible.
We have just been going through the motions until the end of the season, why? I would much rather try giving some game time to a youngster now, when there is nothing on the game, than wait until next season when the new manager starts the process of, can I afford to risk him.
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The home fans would have got right behind players who hadn't stolen a living, insulted fans and brought dishonour on the club, but Black was too dim to see it.
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Eric Black audio interview (https://audioboom.com/boos/4561808-villa-caretaker-boss-eric-black-expects-to-leave-the-club-on-sunday-but-says-he-can-go-with-his-head-held-high?utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=card&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter)
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If Black wanted to give Grealish a boost then maybe he could have given him some play time...
Maybe he isn't up to it at the moment? He hasn't done anything all season and Remi didn't pick him either. We really don't know the reasons do we?
Black says his decision not to pick him a personal one (by Black) - what the hell that is supposed to mean is anyone's guess. The issue I have with Black is that he opens his gob and muddies the waters even more - maybe he is just thick then?
Would you prefer it if he said 'Jack just hasn't been trying in training' or 'Jack's confidence is so shot and he's a liability at the moment' or 'Jack turned up pissed the other day' etc. All hypothetical of course but sometimes it's better to not say something. We just don't know the facts, that's why I think it is harsh to crucify the guy for this one decision, particularly when Remi didn't fancy him either.
In which case why bring him up at all? He'd not been a topic of conversation for the last 3 months, everyone had pretty much given up on seeing him instead of the likes of Bacuna and Sinclair.
The thing about Black that's pissed me off is that when you look at the overall picture of what he's done and said, it's been about doing what's easiest for him to get through until next Monday.
On the one hand that's fair enough from his point of view, why put yourself out, but don't then deliver a load of spin and white and expect everyone to swallow it.
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I actually think the support has been quite special recently. Yes, there has been the targeted booing - if Mr Black wants to keep picking the wastrals, what do you expect? - but the general level of support for the club has been exceptional; and commented upon by oppo fans.
Point nailed with regards the atmosphere. It was obvious which players were provoking the reaction, how much difference would it have made to have dropped Lescott and Bacuna. He could still have picked an almost sensible 11 from the usual suspects.
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Thinking about Blacks reign in charge and his reluctance to expose the younger players to the "psychological
Hellhole" that is Aston Villa. Apart from Jordan Ayew, I would say that Kevin Toner has been a real positive story. So thanks Eric for giving him the opportunity to pick up some invaluable experience.
Its a shame that you didn't give further opportunity to other talented youngsters as this would have left you with a far more positive legacy. Sadly picking players such as Kieron Richardson and Leandro Bacuna continuously means that your time at our fine club won't be remembered well putting it mildly.
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I actually think the support has been quite special recently. Yes, there has been the targeted booing - if Mr Black wants to keep picking the wastrals, what do you expect? - but the general level of support for the club has been exceptional; and commented upon by oppo fans.
And a Coventry blogger who attended the Watford game, intending to gloat but leaving impressed
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I don't think calling the atmosphere 'absolutely fucking poisonous' should provoke the reaction it has. Yes, in the last couple of games that has changed to more gallows humour but with a sinister undertone for me. We'll laugh at ourselves unless certain people touch the ball or make a mistake.
Also, as has been mentioned the word 'toxic' has been used by both Black and press alike, and whether you agree with that or not that filters through to the players and what they expect from the crowd. As I said, things have improved but teh damage has been done. I think it's worth remembering that this was posted by amfy just at the end of April:
"I am not blaming the fans, I am saying that I find the booing unpleasant & uncomfortable and would like it to stop, and I am as entitled to an opinion as to how best to support the team as someone who wants to boo them is".
Clearly the atmosphere did effect some so to try and split hairs really is neither here nor there. the atmosphere was bad, some say absolutely fucking poisonous, some say it was toxic, some found the atmosphere uncomfortable and unpleasant, some thought the players should grow a pair, some chose to point out the other fans applauded us when we got going (singing), and some said certain people's reactions tot he atmosphere was not hoe they read it.
Whatever it is one thing for certain is that it's not right. Gallows singing is singing with a dark underbelly and teeth can be bared at any second. And with that in mind I can understand, and support, why Eric Black has decided to protect the younger players from that.
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All the reports I read was that Grealish was MOTM in a recent game v the Baggies, but still on the bench. The selections have been weird to say the least IMO. What is he point in playing Bacuna when it seems certain he will be going to Bayern Munich in the summer for champions league football?
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I think the away fans have been great. The home? Not so much.
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And I assume you include yourself in that comment?
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I don't think calling the atmosphere 'absolutely fucking poisonous' should provoke the reaction it has. Yes, in the last couple of games that has changed to more gallows humour but with a sinister undertone for me. We'll laugh at ourselves unless certain people touch the ball or make a mistake.
Also, as has been mentioned the word 'toxic' has been used by both Black and press alike, and whether you agree with that or not that filters through to the players and what they expect from the crowd. As I said, things have improved but teh damage has been done. I think it's worth remembering that this was posted by amfy just at the end of April:
"I am not blaming the fans, I am saying that I find the booing unpleasant & uncomfortable and would like it to stop, and I am as entitled to an opinion as to how best to support the team as someone who wants to boo them is".
Clearly the atmosphere did effect some so to try and split hairs really is neither here nor there. the atmosphere was bad, some say absolutely fucking poisonous, some say it was toxic, some found the atmosphere uncomfortable and unpleasant, some thought the players should grow a pair, some chose to point out the other fans applauded us when we got going (singing), and some said certain people's reactions tot he atmosphere was not hoe they read it.
Whatever it is one thing for certain is that it's not right. Gallows singing is singing with a dark underbelly and teeth can be bared at any second. And with that in mind I can understand, and support, why Eric Black has decided to protect the younger players from that.
yep. There's no doubt that some of the players have bought it on themselves with their on and off field performances and you can make a good arguement that they deserve the current atmosphere. However any mistake is pounced on now with the result that the players don't want to try anything. Black's defensive line-ups i read as a means of getting at least something out the game to gain confidence. It's really got to the stage now where a clean sheet is a pretty big milestone for some of these players. Frankly sticking in a mixture of youth players and saying" go for it" doesn't cut it because if we're 2 nil down by halftime the crowd will turn, if not on the players, but Black himself who is everyone's favourite punch bag at the moment. If he played the youth team and the likes of Traore would he get any credit on here if we got well beat? Of course not, he'd be pummelled for playing them "wrong". I've read a lot on here criticising Black for negative comments in the press, but he's like a man overdosing on Prozac compared to many of our fans. Telling a team to entertain and be positive while waiting to pounce on any fuck-up just doesn't work in any motivational handbook i've come across.
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The harsh commercial reality is also that we have to sell a lot of these players. Demoting them and replacing them with an academy product won't increase their value. Yes, I know that you could argue that nor does them being seen playing (shit) every week, but the former does more damage. I suspect he's been told this. He is so effusively complimentary about the fans, I actually think he doesn't like doing it himself.
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I think the away fans have been great. The home? Not so much.
Edit -
And I assume you include yourself in that comment?
What do you mean and why did you cut my edit out?
I don't go away but yes, include myself in the home fan category
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Bye Bye Black, Sheep!
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I believe the support given not just this year, but over the last few years has been nothing short of amazing. We may not be going down with a record low points total, but the players signed this summer and through that the money spent, yes not all of them have been poor but I have never seen a team over a 38 game season put in as little effort as these wankers.
As supporters the main ones who have got the pelters and deserve so much more, are all players that have not only, not turned up on the pitch, but made the whole sorry saga worse by some of their off field antics and then there poor excuses for those actions. Scared to try things , but Baccuna still tries to spend 90 minutes with a inane grin on his ugly mug, Gabby has gone into hiding because he knows exactly what he would get if he ventured onto the pitch, Richards what a oxygen thief, Lescott has the same ability to send chewing gum as far as he can control a ball and I believe that time at Wycombe, has been the only time this season that he was actually in the position he was told to be in before the game, yes the bench.
Hutton has not been given pelters, Rudy as useless as he is has not been the major target, Ayew who at best has been average has been treated like a god.
The support turned at the end of January when for all concerned who could do something, decided we were not worth trying to do something, the players with their subsequent actions just made matters worse and Eric Black is a full valid reflection of Aston Villa season 2015-2016, not up to premier standard.
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I actually think the support has been quite special recently. Yes, there has been the targeted booing - if Mr Black wants to keep picking the wastrals, what do you expect? - but the general level of support for the club has been exceptional; and commented upon by oppo fans.
And a Coventry blogger who attended the Watford game, intending to gloat but leaving impressed
Did they write an article on this, Pat?
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I actually think the support has been quite special recently. Yes, there has been the targeted booing - if Mr Black wants to keep picking the wastrals, what do you expect? - but the general level of support for the club has been exceptional; and commented upon by oppo fans.
And a Coventry blogger who attended the Watford game, intending to gloat but leaving impressed
Did they write an article on this, Pat?
http://thelonelyseason.club/match-reports/same-same-but-different
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I actually think the support has been quite special recently. Yes, there has been the targeted booing - if Mr Black wants to keep picking the wastrals, what do you expect? - but the general level of support for the club has been exceptional; and commented upon by oppo fans.
And a Coventry blogger who attended the Watford game, intending to gloat but leaving impressed
Did they write an article on this, Pat?
http://thelonelyseason.club/match-reports/same-same-but-different
Thanks :)
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I think our support has been absolutely brilliant. Any poison began in the dressing and board rooms and spread onto the pitch. What was chucked back at them from the stands was mild compared to what the arseholes have heaped upon us.
I think the away fans have been great. The home? Not so much.
Edit - actually I'll clarify this - I agree for most of the season the home fans were very good and very patient. My personal opinion though was that the negativity towards the end went a bit too far and I genuinely felt it did effect the players.
Can you try and defend the starting line up the moron picked today ????
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About the only thing that will cheer me up about this whole wretched season is reading tonight that he's been fired. COTHO
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totally. A tool. Goodbye.
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As I said on the match thread he's obviously not all that bothered about protecting the youngsters. He hasn't called on Richards to play against Cazorla, Ozil, Sanchez, Wiltshire, Giroud etc.
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Useless prick, no made up excuses wash with me.
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I pity the next club, desperate enough to employ him.
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Just telling myself to keep calm.
5pm and he'll be gone.
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What idiot plays 5 at the back against 1 striker and 3 in the middle against against 5.
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Black has managed an astonishing feat.
He is the worst manager in the history of Villa with a minimum 6 games qualifying period. Yes worse than the 2 McDeaths, Go Again Lamberk and Dim Sherwood. Worse than Turner, and far far worse than Taylor MK II.
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Eric Black, GET TO FUCK.
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Just imagine how many we'd have lost by today if it wasn't for his 37 years experience!
PL7 W0 D1 L6 F5 A18.
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Fuck me Eric and fuck off. You utter failure.
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Two substitutions, both forced by injuries. Mind the door doesn't whack you on the arse on your way out Black
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he makes Tim look like a genius
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Thanks for the memories, Eric.
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I have more idea of setting up a team than Eric, thanks for nothing.
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Go, and go without my thanks. Failure.
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I must commend Eric Black. You don't usually make yourself that unpopular in such a short space of time unless you're a politician or you go on a killing spree.
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He's been a fucking disaster.
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Randy is terrible at appointing managers but he's actually worse at appointing caretaker managers.
The only thing that will ever interest me about Black is when I hopefully get to read a sentence with his name in it alongside the words, parted, company and Aston Villa.
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Eric Black - I hope you never darken Villa Park again.
Go now, just fuck off and go
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Did Garde choose Black or have him imposed upon him? And did Black's arrival also coincide with the start of this dismal run of consecutive defeats?
May as well have put Gabby and Richards in charge after Garde left.
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Bye Eric. You took an absolutely terrible situation with awful players and yet somehow managed to make it all worse.
Negative tactics, almost absent substitutions and zero motivational powers.
That takes talent.
You obviously dislike Aston Villa, enjoy your money. Now go.
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I wonder how many other freeloaders there are still at villa park keeping there heads down hoping not to get noticed.
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Bye, bye.
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The worst caretaker you could conjure up, he twins brilliantly with the worst team we've ever had and the worst owner.
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Water under the bridge now but I wonder what he really wanted to say about the 'anarchy' comment a while back. Any explanation would probably drag the club through even more shit, but I would like the lid to come off once the club is under new management. Black made some strange decisions after moaning about the booing and yet he caused some of it with his selections. Just goes to show me that the new Manager needs his own coaching staff alongside him.
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Bye Eric. You took an absolutely terrible situation with awful players and yet somehow managed to make it all worse.
Negative tactics, almost absent substitutions and zero motivational powers.
That takes talent.
You obviously dislike Aston Villa, enjoy your money. Now go.
Yep. When you think about it, he came into a situation not too bad for a caretaker - no pressure on him because of where the team were and a chance for him to make a bit of a name for himself. Instead of being positive and going out to try and win games though, he set up to try and not lose instead, and failed badly. As it is, I think he leaves as the worst manager we've had over the last five years, which is an achievement in itself.
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A corpse would show more passion and creativity that this guy
Bye Eric
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Could we not have another miserable, defensive, boring Scotsman as a manager again for the rest of my life please.
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They could have put any one at the club, absolutely anyone, from a ball boy or ticket office lady to Sid Cowans or one of the fans from the stands, in charge after Garde went.
Not a single one of them could have been any worse than this joker with his 37 years of experience.
He can stick his 37 years up his fucking arse.
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Cheerio, close the door behind you and never come back.
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My criteria for the next Villa manager:
Not Pulis
Never been on the payroll of either Aberdeen or Celtic
Tick both of those boxes and you'll be more than welcome. Anyone else can piss off quite frankly.
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and someone who has never had any contact with SAF anywhere, anytime. And definitely no written correspondence.
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Although we were going down and all that he had a massive opportunity to blood the future and use the existing players we were likely to keep in the championship. That he did neither puts him up there in the Kevin McDonald school for relics and fcuk overing.
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Bye Eric. You took an absolutely terrible situation with awful players and yet somehow managed to make it all worse.
Negative tactics, almost absent substitutions and zero motivational powers.
That takes talent.
You obviously dislike Aston Villa, enjoy your money. Now go.
Yep. When you think about it, he came into a situation not too bad for a caretaker - no pressure on him because of where the team were and a chance for him to make a bit of a name for himself. Instead of being positive and going out to try and win games though, he set up to try and not lose instead, and failed badly. As it is, I think he leaves as the worst manager we've had over the last five years, which is an achievement in itself.
This is exactly why I'm so pissed off with him, he had absolutely nothing to lose and he decided to be incredibly defensive. If he had plans to be here longer term I'd have seen some sense in trying to create a stable platform, etc but that's not the case and all he's done is take away the thread of comfort fans had about being relegated early which was that it would give us a chance to see a team for the future and maybe have something to be excited about.
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He could have sent us out and we could have lost 6-3 every week with two up top and Grealish, Green and Traore getting a go. Some result, but at least we'd have gone out on our feet throwing punches.
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I must say, I find it bizarre that he lauded Grealish this week but gave him about ten minutes game time in his tenure.
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He's a c**t, and if I ever met him; I'd tell him he was...and why!
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The man has been an absolute disgrace. He can fuck off, and when he's finished fucking off, he can fuck off some more. He can take his 35 years and his 0% win record elsewhere. Absolute dismal bastard.
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The man has been an absolute disgrace. He can fuck off, and when he's finished fucking off, he can fuck off some more. He can take his 35 years and his 0% win record elsewhere. Absolute dismal bastard.
Sums it up nicely.
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What idiot plays 5 at the back against 1 striker and 3 in the middle against against 5.
It takes a special kind of fuckwit.
Or someone who doesn't really give a shit and has just been doing whatever was easiest to get through to 5pm tonight.
I forget which commentator said it, but one of them nailed it this afternoon.
He's thrown just enough scapegoats onto the pitch to deflect the pressure from himself for 90 minutes and enough sheep onto the pitch to not cause him problems for the other 166 1/2 hours per week.
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The man has been an absolute disgrace. He can fuck off, and when he's finished fucking off, he can fuck off some more. He can take his 35 years and his 0% win record elsewhere. Absolute dismal bastard.
Sums it up nicely.
Best summing up of the man I've read. Well struck sir!
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Agreed.
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Compare what Newcastle achieved today, after being psychologically crushed this week, with that utter garbage Black's Villa have served up. It shows what we're up against.
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Communication was his only asset, he spoke french brilliant he could keep the whole squad update right to the bitter end, is it possible that his employer 're Mr Holis can explain why given his previous experience he was given the role!!!
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For certain. The guy is a total and utter cretin. Fucking shambles of a manager. I really hope he is no longer employed by Villa as of 5pm today.
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My criteria for the next Villa manager:
Not Pulis
Never been on the payroll of either Aberdeen or Celtic
Tick both of those boxes and you'll be more than welcome. Anyone else can piss off quite frankly.
Ally McCoist?
Barry Fry?
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The man has been an absolute disgrace. He can fuck off, and when he's finished fucking off, he can fuck off some more. He can take his 35 years and his 0% win record elsewhere. Absolute dismal bastard.
Sums it up nicely.
But however far he fucks off it can never be far enough, the fucker.
He should be made to sit in the Upper Trinity and fucked off to fucksville like the poor bastards who used to sit up there before we right-sized in a downwards direction.
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has he been fucked off yet? If not, why not?
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Hopefully he will clear out his desk, the guy has been a total joke (be interesting to see after his 35 years of experience) if anyone else will employ him in a managerial or coaching role)
Good riddance!
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After a long, hard half season he's gone on holiday don't you know.
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After a long, hard half season he's gone on holiday don't you know.
Don't hurry back Eric
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
We lost 4-0.
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
If you're being serious, I assume you mean until Richards came on. A defence without Richards and Hutton looked more solid. I can believe that, although didn't see the match myself.
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I have no feelings for Black one way or the other. He was Acting Manager. We have had plenty of those in recent seasons.Could we have the real thing next time?
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
Apart from the 4 goals
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
If you're being serious, I assume you mean until Richards came on. A defence without Richards and Hutton looked more solid. I can believe that, although didn't see the match myself.
I honestly think Richards coming on made a difference...before then we were "more solid" and hoped we could nick a goal....afterwards, we just fell apart.
I sincerely hope we've seen the last of him. One of the worst defenders I've ever seen in a Villa shirt.
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He hasn't done a very good job. But I think any manager coming into this position would have struggled - it was an impossible situation.
It is hard to fathom what he was trying to achieve, but non of us know the true situation with the squad. Had Jacks head gone? is there a clause in Traores contract that means the powers that be don't want him played etc? We would have probably all done things differently - but it's easy for us armchair managers - play the kids and 10 strikers and we may lose 25-10 but at least we've gone down fighting and had some entertainment etc etc... Who know's what his thinking was, but one thing I am sure of is that it wasn't to set the team up to be as shit as possible just to piss off the fans and ruin any chance of him having a career going forward.
So, when spitting all this venom at a caretaker manager who took over the worst premiership squad in history with a fractured dressing room and confidence in tatters for 7 games, lets not forget who the true culprits here are. There's the obvious ones, Lerner, Fox etc. But Garde couldn't have been shitter. Go and look at his thread and compare it to this one. And I don't buy he was trying to 'do the right thing' etc. Yes, he was dealt a bad hand, but he gave up just as surely as the board did. He was the one who had an opportunity to get this squad working and salvage a few points. But he sails off into the sunset with a few cheery waves and good luck in the future Remi, whilst the guy left holding the baby gets some of the worst venom I have seen on this site for years. Once again I ask why? My conclusion can only be that one sounds like Wegner and the other MCleish.
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
Well it helps when you have just the 2 attackers on the pitch with every one staying back , Arsenal could of been nervy the crowd could of turned on them as they have been dodgy at home and we rock up with a clear plan just to hold on.Everytime Ayew got the ball he had literally no forward pass and yet he still gave them some troubles.
It all fell apart when we made subs and ended up continuing with a 5 man defence but with Sanchez and Richards as 2 of the CB's then it al fell apart
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I think EB has acted very selflessly. Everyman and his dog, plus his dog's stinking turd could see that playing the same shocking team week in week out would result in defeat after predictable defeat. So I just cannot accept that EB couldn't see the same thing. Which means that he must have been doing someone else's bidding.
With a record as shabby and embarrassing as ours, he could have come in, played the kids, put Grealish and Traore on, told the full backs to bomb on, given the midfield licence to get forward and played with a gung-ho spirit - and it is virtually mathematically impossible he could have done any worse. But in the process he'd have garnered support from press and fans alike (who love that sort of thing) and probably done enough to get himself a short managerial contract out of it somewhere like Blackburn or Charlton.
Instead, he killed off his own 35 year career. Dead. Deceased. It is an ex-career.
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Absolute dicksplash. If I ever have to see him again anywhere near Villa, i'll cry.
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So TSM3 departs, leaving... Well, nothing. We moan (rightly) about most of the players stealing a living, but Eric Black did absolutely fuck all, while he was here. Nada. Nichts. Rien. Less than Ray Wilkins. Nowt.
Not once did he do anything that made me notice he was there, let alone bothering his arse. Don't bother writing these two months into your CV, mate, and we'll try and forget you... Oh. Who was I talking about? No, it's gone.
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
4 fucking nil!!!!!
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
4 fucking nil!!!!!
I kind of agree with Peter. Normally when we concede early on we fall apart so we dug in defensively and kept it respectable until we made the changes but a second goal was always coming and that's when the confidence went and Arsenal stepped it up a gear.
As for Black, I agree with what Chrisw1 has said. It was an impossible job for him in many ways because the damage was done and the confidence was very very low but he didn't help himself with his team selections. He was negative and after the season we've had, it was the last thing the fans wanted.
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
We lost 4-0.
We're rubbish and bottom of the table. but up until 75 minutes we did compete quite well and were not porous. That said the second goals led to the usual rout but after conceding so early I thought it would be 4 by half-time. That it was not and that we spent some time on the ball with decent possession shouldn't be overlooked. That we folded after Lescott came off is also worth noting. I think Black had a poor team with little confidence working hard and for each other. We had two very good lines for the majority of the match and with the right set-up, better players, it is something to work with.
It's not going to a popular opinion but I also thought the likes of Bacuna, Westwood, Sanchez, and Lescott did put in a decent shift. In the first half especially we created space for ourselves with some good passing only for time and time again Cissokho to immediately bring a halt to it by checking back as he can't just knock and run.
Yes Arsenal may have been able to gone up a gear or two but sitting where I was I enjoyed watching us compete and a couple of times opening them up. Black will get no credit whatsoever but we weren't playing Norwich yesterday but the side who finished second.
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Are the goal anywhere - could not watch MOTD
How bad was Bunn's OG?
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I think Peter's comments earlier are an unintentional damning of our current plight. We ship 4 goals without barely troubling their keeper and he makes a case for it being acceptable. Just goes to show you the state we are in.
By the way, this is in no way a slight at Peter, more a case of highlighting what we have come to accept as fans, which for Aston Villa is the saddest aspect of all.
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The problem was we had no attacking intent so we didn't really didn't look like scoring and despite having Hepburn-Murphy and Traore on the bench, you knew that he wouldn't have brought them on even if we hadn't been forced to make the earlier subs. That was Black's biggest problem.
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The game lasts 90 minutes. I know we're so unbelievably shit that anything better than losing 100-nil, while several of our players congregate on the halfway line eating doughnuts and huffing hippy crack is considered an improvement, but losing 4-0 under any circumstances means our defending was shit.
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I see the white knights have arrived to defend him again despite everything in his record backing up the fact that allowing him to see out the season was terrible decision.
Sorry Peter but we didn't defend well at all, you cannot say a defence has performed well when they concede after 4 minutes. The next 65 minutes we did ok but that was largely because Arsenal were just playing keep ball and 'doing an Arsenal'. As soon as they put some pace back into the game they started opening us up at will and it ended up 4-0.
Chris I don't see how you can say Garde 'couldn't have been shitter' when he was preceded and succeeded by 2 managers who were measurably shitter with the same squad, one of whom you're trying to defend. Black had 7 games and in total we spent about 25 minutes trying to win them. Everything else he did was all about not losing when we were in a situation where we'd already lost (both in terms of the matches and the season). Take yesterday, we were 1-0 down after 4 minutes and yet still 1-0 down after 75minutes and he'd made 1 enforced changed at centre half, he showed no intention of trying to get back into the game at any point. You yourself say it's hard to fathom what he was trying to achieve and that's the absolute problem, if guys who are trying to defend him don't know what he was doing then it's fair to suggest that he didn't know either.
To go back to Garde what he was trying to do, in my opinion, was get the team fitter and make them more professional in their outlook. I firmly believe the squad made it difficult for him but it was starting to work until the January window closed with no changes which made it pretty clear that Garde wasn't going to be around for much longer which meant the discipline he'd been trying to bring completely collapsed and we fell apart. The results back that up and that's why I say I could see what he was doing.
LeeS I don't know about that, you're absolutely correct with the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs but the first one just begs the question who would tell him to play football so shit and to what end? On top of that how weak and pathetic would you have to be accept it? I just don't buy it, I have no idea what was going through his head when he decided to concentrate on defensive stability (and conceded 2.57 goals a game - compared to 1.9 for Garde who couldn't be shitter) and completely abandon any suggestion of attacking threat but it I do believe that's where it came from.
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Are the goal anywhere - could not watch MOTD
How bad was Bunn's OG?
Very unlucky. made a great diving save from Arteta, ball went on to the bar rebounded onto his back and in.
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I haven't seen any stats, but if anyone thanks that half a dozen square passes in our own half before giving the ball to an Arsenal player counts as proper possession then we're really clutching at straws. We seemed to do this pretty regularly yesterday and it was shit.
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Thought we looked a lot more solid at the back yesterday and defended quite well.
I can't tell if you are serious/Eric Black or being sarcastic?
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As has been said in another Post paul e just summed it up. Poor old Remi was trying his best and the nasty people at Aston Villa made it hard for him whereas the coach asked to fill in is the devil incarnate.
As for the game. Yes we did defend well. It you don't put in a shift against a top team you will get slaughtered. For the majority of the game we were running with the players, getting little flicks, nicks, and some decent challenges in. No, not on the same level as a better team would, but for our standard we did compete and we did put in an acceptable shift. That the 3 goals went in when they did compounds our misery but its wrong to say Remi tried to do something so is good without recognising that Black has also tried to do something. Neither have worked particularly well but one wasn't appointed to be the manager neither did he strop around the place when the going got even tougher.
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Are the goal anywhere - could not watch MOTD
How bad was Bunn's OG?
Very unlucky. made a great diving save from Arteta, ball went on to the bar rebounded onto his back and in.
Unlucky apart from the bit where the Arsenal player strolls to the edge of our box uncontested, plays the ball out wide it gets pulled back and Arteta is waiting unchallenged or marked for a free shot. The defending was abysmal.
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I haven't seen any stats, but if anyone thanks that half a dozen square passes in our own half before giving the ball to an Arsenal player counts as proper possession then we're really clutching at straws. We seemed to do this pretty regularly yesterday and it was shit.
In the first half we had a lot of possession int heir half and created space more than once. That's where our shitness then let us down. Second half granted the possession was nearly all Arsenal but it's unfair on them to say it was pointless possession in the first-half because it wasn't.
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I see the white knights have arrived to defend him again despite everything in his record backing up the fact that allowing him to see out the season was terrible decision.
What's all this 'white knights' nonsense just because someone has a different way of looking at it than you? And besides, I don't think they're defending him, they're just saying we were rubbish before he took over and we carried on being rubbish. He wasn't the cause of where we are.
As for allowing him to see out the season, It was obvious Garde didn't want to stay and we were down when he went anyway. Keeping him on would have been a bit pointless if he as planning to leave. Black just didn't help himself being as negative as he was.
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Absolute dicksplash. If I ever have to see him again anywhere near Villa, i'll cry.
That's not entirely true is it.
I'll be turning cartwheels if I see him turn up in charge of the opposition.
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Putting the pointless Garde/Black argument to one side for a second, we shipped four goals. We were one down within 5 minutes. Arsenal tried to walk it into our goal for most of the match, and when they injected a bit of urgency into their game they dispatched us with embarrassing ease. We were slaughtered. Our defence, midfield and forward line were all spectacularly shit.
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Putting the pointless Garde/Black argument to one side for a second, we shipped four goals. We were one down within 5 minutes. Arsenal tried to walk it into our goal for most of the match, and when they injected a bit of urgency into their game they dispatched us with embarrassing ease. We were slaughtered. Our defence, midfield and forward line were all spectacularly shit.
Yes of course, but that was happening before Black took over. That's the point.
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Putting the pointless Garde/Black argument to one side for a second, we shipped four goals. We were one down within 5 minutes. Arsenal tried to walk it into our goal for most of the match, and when they injected a bit of urgency into their game they dispatched us with embarrassing ease. We were slaughtered. Our defence, midfield and forward line were all spectacularly shit.
Yes of course, but that was happening before Black took over. That's the point.
It was. But that's no defence (Ha!) of him.
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The game was over after 300 seconds, from then on it was another training game for Arsenal.
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The game was over after 300 seconds, from then on it was another training game for Arsenal.
Hasn't that been the case for most of the season?
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The game was over after 300 seconds, from then on it was another training game for Arsenal.
Hasn't that been the case for most of the season?
No. I can't recall conceding too many goals in the first 10 minutes. I do know that we've conceded 4 or more as many times in Blacks tenure, 3 as we have in the other 31 games of the season. So what he has tried has failed miserably.
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The game was over after 300 seconds, from then on it was another training game for Arsenal.
Hasn't that been the case for most of the season?
No. I can't recall conceding too many goals in the first 10 minutes. I do know that we've conceded 4 or more as many times in Blacks tenure, 3 as we have in the other 31 games of the season. So what he has tried has failed miserably.
I suggest you look through the season's results. We were conceding plenty of goals before he took over.
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Putting the pointless Garde/Black argument to one side for a second, we shipped four goals. We were one down within 5 minutes. Arsenal tried to walk it into our goal for most of the match, and when they injected a bit of urgency into their game they dispatched us with embarrassing ease. We were slaughtered. Our defence, midfield and forward line were all spectacularly shit.
Yes of course, but that was happening before Black took over. That's the point.
but he made it worse than it was before which is the real point. I've given the stats on goals conceded, he made us more defensive which resulted in us conceding more goals, he failed spectacularly at the one thing he tried to do. When you add on the fact that it was also completely the wrong thing to do in the situation he just looks utterly incompetent.
I see the white knights have arrived to defend him again despite everything in his record backing up the fact that allowing him to see out the season was terrible decision.
What's all this 'white knights' nonsense just because someone has a different way of looking at it than you? And besides, I don't think they're defending him, they're just saying we were rubbish before he took over and we carried on being rubbish. He wasn't the cause of where we are.
As for allowing him to see out the season, It was obvious Garde didn't want to stay and we were down when he went anyway. Keeping him on would have been a bit pointless if he as planning to leave. Black just didn't help himself being as negative as he was.
The white knights thing was a low dig, I just don't see what Peter and Chris are trying to achieve defending a guy who got 1 point in 7 and conceded 18 goals playing horrific defensive football to do it.
Seeing out the season might not have been an option and appointing a replacement would've been a bad idea but I can't accept that there was no one else at the club who could've stepped in and done a better job, I think you'd struggle to find someone willing to take it who'd have done worse.
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Putting the pointless Garde/Black argument to one side for a second, we shipped four goals. We were one down within 5 minutes. Arsenal tried to walk it into our goal for most of the match, and when they injected a bit of urgency into their game they dispatched us with embarrassing ease. We were slaughtered. Our defence, midfield and forward line were all spectacularly shit.
Yes of course, but that was happening before Black took over. That's the point.
It isn't, really. I'm questioning the idea that we defended well against Arsenal. Everything about the game screams that we didn't.
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Putting the pointless Garde/Black argument to one side for a second, we shipped four goals. We were one down within 5 minutes. Arsenal tried to walk it into our goal for most of the match, and when they injected a bit of urgency into their game they dispatched us with embarrassing ease. We were slaughtered. Our defence, midfield and forward line were all spectacularly shit.
Yes of course, but that was happening before Black took over. That's the point.
but he made it worse than it was before which is the real point. I've given the stats on goals conceded, he made us more defensive which resulted in us conceding more goals, he failed spectacularly at the one thing he tried to do. When you add on the fact that it was also completely the wrong thing to do in the situation he just looks utterly incompetent.
I see the white knights have arrived to defend him again despite everything in his record backing up the fact that allowing him to see out the season was terrible decision.
What's all this 'white knights' nonsense just because someone has a different way of looking at it than you? And besides, I don't think they're defending him, they're just saying we were rubbish before he took over and we carried on being rubbish. He wasn't the cause of where we are.
As for allowing him to see out the season, It was obvious Garde didn't want to stay and we were down when he went anyway. Keeping him on would have been a bit pointless if he as planning to leave. Black just didn't help himself being as negative as he was.
The white knights thing was a low dig, I just don't see what Peter and Chris are trying to achieve defending a guy who got 1 point in 7 and conceded 18 goals playing horrific defensive football to do it.
Seeing out the season might not have been an option and appointing a replacement would've been a bad idea but I can't accept that there was no one else at the club who could've stepped in and done a better job, I think you'd struggle to find someone willing to take it who'd have done worse.
Who else do you suggest would have been able to step in? There was Kevin McDonald and he got slaughtered last time he did it and it wouldn't have been fair to put Brian or Sid in a situation like that.
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Maybe they should have actually appointed a full time manager? We have been in limbo ever since Garde went.
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The game was over after 300 seconds, from then on it was another training game for Arsenal.
Hasn't that been the case for most of the season?
No. I can't recall conceding too many goals in the first 10 minutes. I do know that we've conceded 4 or more as many times in Blacks tenure, 3 as we have in the other 31 games of the season. So what he has tried has failed miserably.
I suggest you look through the season's results. We were conceding plenty of goals before he took over.
I've posted the stats 1 page back in a comment that you've replied to. I didn't include the sherwood games but it was 1.81 goals per game under Sherwood, 1.9 under Garde and 2.57 under Black. We were bad, he made us a lot worse.
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Who else do you suggest would have been able to step in? There was Kevin McDonald and he got slaughtered last time he did it and it wouldn't have been fair to put Brian or Sid in a situation like that.
I don't know but sacking a manager and replacing him with a guy who's record as a caretaker is embarrassing was never going to end well. You could probably have asked one of the youth team coaches to give it a go and they'd have got more out of the team than he did.
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The game was over after 300 seconds, from then on it was another training game for Arsenal.
Hasn't that been the case for most of the season?
No. I can't recall conceding too many goals in the first 10 minutes. I do know that we've conceded 4 or more as many times in Blacks tenure, 3 as we have in the other 31 games of the season. So what he has tried has failed miserably.
I suggest you look through the season's results. We were conceding plenty of goals before he took over.
I've posted the stats 1 page back in a comment that you've replied to. I didn't include the sherwood games but it was 1.81 goals per game under Sherwood, 1.9 under Garde and 2.57 under Black. We were bad, he made us a lot worse.
We've been shit all season. That's all there is too it really.
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Started bad, went a bit more bad, now we're fucking terribly bad.
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we have been shit all season, and the bit where we've played the worst football, taken the biggest beatings and looked least threatening has been the last 7 games. All at a time when the fans had accepted relegation and just wanted to black a few eyes before we went and Black chose to not even swing a punch.
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Started bad, went a bit more bad, now we're fucking terribly bad.
Season summed up in a dozen words. Just saved me reading through 63 pages.
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we have been shit all season, and the bit where we've played the worst football, taken the biggest beatings and looked least threatening has been the last 7 games. All at a time when the fans had accepted relegation and just wanted to black a few eyes before we went and Black chose to not even swing a punch.
The biggest beating was Liverpool at home under Garde and we lost 4-0 away at Everton, and at home to Man City and we lost 4-0 at home to Chelsea. Even Watford and Sunderland put 3 past us earlier in the season. It's been like it all season. The rot had set in. It just carried on under Black.
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The game was over after 300 seconds, from then on it was another training game for Arsenal.
Hasn't that been the case for most of the season?
No. I can't recall conceding too many goals in the first 10 minutes. I do know that we've conceded 4 or more as many times in Blacks tenure, 3 as we have in the other 31 games of the season. So what he has tried has failed miserably.
I suggest you look through the season's results. We were conceding plenty of goals before he took over.
I've posted the stats 1 page back in a comment that you've replied to. I didn't include the sherwood games but it was 1.81 goals per game under Sherwood, 1.9 under Garde and 2.57 under Black. We were bad, he made us a lot worse.
Made us defensively worse despite playing about 8 defensive minded players each game.... How much of it you can attribute to the players completely giving up with relegation confirmed and how much is Black being even shitter than the shit we've had up till then I don't know but the numbers speak for themselves. I also go by my eyes and we've been worse.
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Are the goal anywhere - could not watch MOTD
How bad was Bunn's OG?
Very unlucky. made a great diving save from Arteta, ball went on to the bar rebounded onto his back and in.
Unlucky apart from the bit where the Arsenal player strolls to the edge of our box uncontested, plays the ball out wide it gets pulled back and Arteta is waiting unchallenged or marked for a free shot. The defending was abysmal.
The question was how bad the own goal was not what led up to it.
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Defended well yesterday, errmm, Arsenal centre forward left all alone in the centre of the box, 1-0, second goal three chances to clear 2-0, third goal, Toner drops while the rest of the line push up, Arsenal centre forward free to grab hat trick, Richards stands on the ball, ball played wide, Sanchez I think (Arsenal) gets to the bye line, pulls back across packed villa defense, towards the edge of the area, Arteta strolls onto the ball unchallenged (Westwood did point him out thou), beats Bunn, ball comes back of the bar hits Bunn on back and goes in. The above is a basic summary of our improved defensive performance yesterday.
It was also stated yesterday by one of the commentators on Bein, that Richards in the last five games he had been involved in, we had shipped 21 goals, so that now becomes 25 in 6 games, with those sort of stats, I would have appreciated a man with over 35 years of experience, just maybe could see that Richards really should be nowhere near the match day squad, but hey ho some people saw an improvement. WTF.
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No Black didn't make us worse. Okore got the hump so was dispatched, Clark was in and out because of injury/loss of form, and the players had thrown the towel in. Garde did not have that to contend with on top of Gabby and so even though it didn't improve under Black it was not down to him. The rot, and the players attitudes had started to go before he took over. It was like watching dry rot setting in and then collapsing under the weight of its own badness. Black was just the last support thrown in but not to make any structural changes but just long enough to be able to sell house.
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Peter W, how about
Sherwood Shit
Garde Shit
Black Shit,
they have all been shit we are down for ffs
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Black has been completely useless.
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LeeS I don't know about that, you're absolutely correct with the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs but the first one just begs the question who would tell him to play football so shit and to what end? On top of that how weak and pathetic would you have to be accept it? I just don't buy it, I have no idea what was going through his head when he decided to concentrate on defensive stability (and conceded 2.57 goals a game - compared to 1.9 for Garde who couldn't be shitter) and completely abandon any suggestion of attacking threat but it I do believe that's where it came from.
Just my attempt at sarcasm. He is the worst manager I've ever seen and should be banned from the game. Forever.
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Peter W, how about
Sherwood Shit
Garde Shit
Black Shit,
they have all been shit we are down for ffs
Yes, they have. That's kind of the point. However, two of them were appointed to be the manager and one of them was asked to fill in. Not his fault that he couldn't change anything because the damage had been done. He's got a good reputation as a coach and a number 2 and he will get plenty of job offers for next season. He's not a manager, never has been one, and there is probably a reason why he doesn't apply for full-time manager positions.
It's the reaction to him I'm batting against.
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Peter W, how about
Sherwood Shit
Garde Shit
Black Shit,
they have all been shit we are down for ffs
Yes, they have. That's kind of the point. However, two of them were appointed to be the manager and one of them was asked to fill in. Not his fault that he couldn't change anything because the damage had been done. He's got a good reputation as a coach and a number 2 and he will get plenty of job offers for next season. He's not a manager, never has been one, and there is probably a reason why he doesn't apply for full-time manager positions.
It's the reaction to him I'm batting against.
You make a good point, Peter. He didn't ask for the job and he couldn't realistically save us from relegation. But the leaf mulch I spread around my roses could have done a better job at managing us than he has. He was singularly awful and should hang his head in shame after picking those sides week in week out. It was inexplicable.
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But Peter that reaction is to be expected, we have had 6 years of having our expectations lowered and lowered, then we finally achieve those expectations and instead of "Oh what the hell" we get a guy for whatever reason, sets out a team to avoid defeat at all costs, with the players within the squad, who he was coaching prior to being caretaker, if he could not see that they cannot defend, they cannot concentrate, they have no obvious talent for football, even when he decides to bolster that back line by placing as many defensive midfielders onto the pitch as possible and that being with his 35 years of experience, I am stunned you are surprised or can find it within yourself to support this no mark.
He is a measure of our management appointments since TSM1 and that when he had an opportunity to at least give it a go, he had nothing to lose. Read the pre match threads, a conservative guess at the average score prediction would be at least 3 or 4, not just to the good teams but to every team, I would have hoped he could just have give it a go, sadly he didnt and I now wish him all the best in his journey to join the club, of Mcleish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde,Turner and McNeil all people who had the honor of managing Aston Villa football club and all gloriously fucked up.
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I think 63 pages on this no mark speaks for itself, and 95% of it is negative.
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Can I just say that I had a fantastic day yesterday with the Longbridge Lions. Shout out to organiser Trevor and Armani/Banana man Kenny. Top lads.
Eric Black missed a great opportunity during his tenure as he didn't try a few things with his selections. I wouldn't have cared less if they hadn't worked out. At least he could have tried.
During his reign we'd lost all of those games before a ball was kicked (except against the Toon).
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Nunkin and that was because Newcastle piss falps were crap.
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Eric Black would have received nothing but goodwill from us supporters if he had just tried to make an attempt at turning the porker's lughole into a Louis Vuiton. He didn't, and for that he will forever be reviled whenever he appears at VP or his name gets mentioned.
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Black could have lost every game and I'd have remembered him at least vaguely fondly if he had tried to get the team to go on the attack and go down fighting. However what he actually did was set up incredibly defensively and had no success with that negative approach, so I'll remember him for the horror show he was.
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Has he actually gone? Genuine question, I can't see it anywhere.
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hasn't he gone on holiday? Exile would be more appropriate.
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Peter W, how about
Sherwood Shit
Garde Shit
Black Shit,
they have all been shit we are down for ffs
He's got a good reputation as a number 2
You'll get no arguments from anybody about that.
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I imagine the arguments could be about what kind of number 2...
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the shit kind?
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well done eric for using your 123 years in football to end up with a 0% win rate
heres your p45 now fuck off you clueless c***
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Absolute dicksplash. If I ever have to see him again anywhere near Villa, i'll cry.
That's not entirely true is it.
I'll be turning cartwheels if I see him turn up in charge of the opposition.
Haha. Yes, that's a good point!
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The thing that has really annoyed me about Black is that he has done nothing with a view to next season. I was not bothered about the results as we were already relegated. If we could have got to the end of the season saying that one or two of the younger 1st team players (Grealish, Veretout, Traore etc.) looked promising for next season, I would have accepted that out of this dismal season but no, Black didn't even try. We have wasted the end of the season.
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I can't get worked up by Eric anymore.
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I can't get worked up by Eric anymore.
No you're right. I've not got the energy left anymore. Its gone,over,ended.
We go again ha ha!!!!
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exactly!
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hasn't he gone on holiday? Exile would be more appropriate.
There's no room for him here
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Hollis is running the club on his lonesome, the takeover will no doubt drag on interminably, not the best situation for hiring managers. Face it, Black will be in charge of our first game next season.
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I very much doubt that.
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I'll be surprised if he's still here next week, let alone next season.
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If Eric Black is our manager next season I shall buy a season ticket at The Sty.
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Well Mr. Green....as the days tick by and there is no news and Mr. Black is still at the park then start panicking. ..
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All the indications are that the deal would be about 2-3 weeks away from last weekend which takes us to the start of June. Either way I would fully expect a manager to be in place by no later than the 2nd week of June.
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If Eric Black is our manager next season I shall buy a season ticket at The Sty.
A noble gesture but I hope you would not attend.
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If Eric Black is our manager next season I shall buy a season ticket at The Sty.
A noble gesture but I hope you would not attend.
He'd probably have to do overtime like most of their season ticket holders.
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Is he still here?
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Black can go ( back) to Coventry
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Better still he goes back to Small Heath
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Better still he goes back to Small Heath
Better still he goes back to Scotland.
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Apart from the Chelsea and Arsenal games I think his teams showed an improved attitude. Not saying he was any messiah mind.
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Theres a vacancy I think Eric Mr 35 YEARS Black could fill.
Chip shop by me have a vacancy!!
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Eric Black and his 35+ years of inspired experience and knowledge has officially left the building. Bye bye Eric you useless tool. Oh and Parks has gone too.
Eric Black arguably the worst stand in manager in the history of stand in managers.
Tara a bit Eric and Tony (https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/06/21/thank-you-to-eric-and-tony?)
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Wahey!
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And the revolution takes another step forward - maybe the future is brighter 8)
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Well, I suppose he does deserve some thanks by doing his best to get us relegated quickly and therefore not prolonging our false-hope for too long.
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Thanks for nothing Eric.
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A farewell ditty for peter w.
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Nobody is looking for Eric.
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TFFT!
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I am sure he will land on his feet somewhere soon enough
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Hollis is running the club on his lonesome, the takeover will no doubt drag on interminably, not the best situation for hiring managers. Face it, Black will be in charge of our first game next season.
Doh!!
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Epic fail Joe
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Cheers Eric, thanks for the grand sum of absolutely fuck all.
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To be fair, he walked into an absolute mess of a situation and whilst he probably thought he was doing his best, he didn't help himself with one or two comments or his drab team selections.
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I have to admit, I shed a tear when I heard this news....
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He came, he saw, he did fuck all.
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My sleep tonight will not be affected one iota after this earth-shattering news.
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Clueless Muppet. As his record as a manager shows.
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The lowest expectations of any manager in recent years, yet he managed to somehow make things even worse.
Terrible dour and depressing manager without a motivational bone in his body.
Not a bad man by any means, just completely out of his depth for our needs. I hope he gets a job somewhere at a club away from any team management duties and gets to become the coach he believes he is.
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Oh and good riddance to Parks too - any coach of the club who swears at fans should be sacked on the spot.
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The lowest expectations of any manager in recent years, yet he managed to somehow make things even worse.
Terrible dour and depressing manager without a motivational bone in his body.
Not a bad man by any means, just completely out of his depth for our needs. I hope he gets a job somewhere at a club away from any team management duties and gets to become the coach he believes he is.
It takes a special kind of genius to come in with zero expectations and undershoot.
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Thanks very much for your services to comedy Eric.
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Not even as good as this Eric.
(http://d.asset.soup.io/asset/2928/7309_e28f.gif)
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Maybe we got This (https://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/tvbanners/292152/p292152_b_v8_ac.jpg&imgrefurl=http://google.com/search%3Ftbm%3Disch%26q%3DStressed%2520Eric&h=1440&w=960&tbnid=swmOxIr83UdrdM:&tbnh=186&tbnw=124&docid=nR-2Gvwb7E86UM&itg=1&usg=__VE8_Xkmj52HCFbIaLbDuw7_7Ma0=)version.
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Considering how little he seemed to do I just assumed he was Eric Idle.
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When he gets to wherever he's going, he can fuck off a little bit more.
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And Garde was better? Seems Black has caught the backlash from a lot of shit that had already gone on.
Played ok at OT, at home v Newcastle and away at Watford.
Garde - fairly well against Man City, reasonable at home v Leicester reasonable again at home v Norwich and?
What Garde tried to do is make us harder to score against. Not sure what Garde's aims were.
And I am not saying Black was brilliant he wasn't but neither was Garde or Sherwood.
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Given that the world is round, so they tell me, he'd better not go too far otherwise he'll be on his way back.
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He's got 35 years experience in football and we haven't so I don't know why you lot are blaming him for continually playing Lescott, Bacuna, Richards, Guzan. It made perfect sense........said no one ever.
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He shoehorned Bacuna into the side at centre half, after we'd been relegated and perpetuated a poisonous environment, securing one point in a reign so gutless and negative it would have made McLiesh's side at White Hart Lane in November 2011 look like the successors to Total Football.
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And Garde was better? Seems Black has caught the backlash from a lot of shit that had already gone on.
Played ok at OT, at home v Newcastle and away at Watford.
Garde - fairly well against Man City, reasonable at home v Leicester reasonable again at home v Norwich and?
What Black (edit) tried to do is make us harder to score against. Not sure what Garde's aims were.
And I am not saying Black was brilliant he wasn't but neither was Garde or Sherwood.
Completely fair point. I am happy to chuck him in the same bucket as the other two. I will say Sherwood at least was capable of motivation occasionally.
In the list of people who got us relegated I would say
Randy Lerner, Fox, Hollis, the board & the transfer window's of shame
The players
Sherwood
Garde
Black
But black put himself on the list by his utter lack of anything. He could be off it or have come out of it with some credit , but he did not. So he is just added to the "people who are to blame" list even if its at the bottom. he didn't need to be on it at all.
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He had a free shot at being positive and getting the fans onside. Instead he was ultra defensive and drove an even bigger wedge between the club and the fans. He was terrible.
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Picks a negative side built around the players that the fans had long since identified as being at the heart of the club being fucked. The atmosphere turns more toxic than it was before. Uses the toxic atmosphere to justify his team selection and refuses to play the players the fans like, even after relegation is confirmed.
That sums up why the guy is a twat who deserves all the stick he gets.
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It takes a special kind of ineptitude to be given the lowest bar imaginable to be remembered as a qualified success - not be quite so terrible as Sherwood or Garde, and still manage to get nowhere near it.
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His selection at home to Bournemouth when we were all but down was a total disgrace.
Even in the weeks after relegation Grealish and Adama were still glued to the bench.
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Eric who?
Can hardly believe this bloke was in charge of our team for even one game!
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Goodbye . Close this thread please.
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And Garde was better? Seems Black has caught the backlash from a lot of shit that had already gone on.
Played ok at OT, at home v Newcastle and away at Watford.
Garde - fairly well against Man City, reasonable at home v Leicester reasonable again at home v Norwich and?
What Garde tried to do is make us harder to score against. Not sure what Garde's aims were.
And I am not saying Black was brilliant he wasn't but neither was Garde or Sherwood.
Agree. Given an impossible task and I'm almost certain that when the dust settles further down the line, the work that Black did in taking over an almost already relegated team, full of players who acted as if they were bigger than the club, the players that constantly took the piss out of the fans, he will get recognition from those within the club that have seen his input for what it was, and how he should not deserve our ire, but thanks.
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And Garde was better? Seems Black has caught the backlash from a lot of shit that had already gone on.
Played ok at OT, at home v Newcastle and away at Watford.
Garde - fairly well against Man City, reasonable at home v Leicester reasonable again at home v Norwich and?
What Garde tried to do is make us harder to score against. Not sure what Garde's aims were.
And I am not saying Black was brilliant he wasn't but neither was Garde or Sherwood.
Agree. Given an impossible task and I'm almost certain that when the dust settles further down the line, the work that Black did in taking over an almost already relegated team, full of players who acted as if they were bigger than the club, the players that constantly took the piss out of the fans, he will get recognition from those within the club that have seen his input for what it was, and how he should not deserve our ire, but thanks.
Wow. Is that how you think it went down with that dour twat? Did you see his team selections? He was wilfully picking the team's that he knew was going to piss off an already angry Villa park crowd. Probably with the intention of hanging out to dry the feckless assholes who were responsible for the mess we got in. He could of at least tried to appease the fans. But no. He had a point to make. He knew exactly what he was doing and knew all along he would be walking away with a handsome settlement. Goodbye and good riddance Mr Black.
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Thanks for what exactly? Making the most awful of seasons even worse?
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black was a useless c***
nothing positive can be said about him
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Eric Black - why?
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I'm just pleased he's gone
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I remain convinced that Black was just followingt teh path of least resistance to get through to the end of May.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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Eric Black - why?
He was the final management choice of Randy and quite possibly his worst. It was the icing on the cake of the finest example of how to choose the wrong man at the wrong time. Thank god it's all over. We go again into the unknown. And who knows how the new regime will turn out? Never a dull moment down in B6.
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I remain convinced that Black was just followingt teh path of least resistance to get through to the end of May.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe your right VID. But when your given the chance to manage one of England's finest football clubs and getting paid handsomely i remain convinced you should at least TRY and do something positive. Sorry but for me Eric Black deserves all the slating he has had on here and elsewhere.
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Still don't hold anything against Black, except that his selections after awhile could have been more daring. Wish him good luck in the future.
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The lowest expectations of any manager in recent years, yet he managed to somehow make things even worse.
Terrible dour and depressing manager without a motivational bone in his body.
Not a bad man by any means, just completely out of his depth for our needs. I hope he gets a job somewhere at a club away from any team management duties and gets to become the coach he believes he is.
It takes a special kind of genius to come in with zero expectations and undershoot.
This was my beef with him. No one else had the luxery to try something different without consequences - yet he fucked a fubar to a fubar2. Clown
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Same with Kmac. Two individuals with nothing at all to lose and yet they managed precisely the opposite of the opportunity afforded to them.
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New assistant manager at Southampton
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Bit odd to appoint an assistant before appointing a manager, isn't it?
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Haven't they appointed the ex-Lyon manager?
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Claude Puel has been announced hasn't he?
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Bit odd to appoint an assistant before appointing a manager, isn't it?
I agree. But Southampton have a recent history of making some odd decisions that seem to work out a hell of a lot better than our odd decisions do.
Edit - I didn't realise the new managerial appointment was done and dusted but I still stand by my point.
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fuck me that's them down. Can you imagine how their fans must feel? On the back managing to do well through incredible change; especially player sales, this summer they lose a top manager in Koeman and one of their best players in Mane. Today they find that the bloke who made sure we got relegated, not winning one game in the process is their new assistant. At least he brings with him a lot of experience.
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I'll say one thing for Cack, he must have some agent.
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...or told a whole load of porky pies at his interview!
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New assistant manager at Southampton
Couldn't make it up could you
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New assistant manager at Southampton
Couldn't make it up could you
The new manager is French. Black speaks French. That would have helped him.
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New assistant manager at Southampton
Couldn't make it up could you
The new manager is French. Black speaks French. That would have helped him.
That would explain why he was so successful with us then
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Selling all the best players (Wayana and Mane) hiring an unproven french manager, Eric Black as assitant, it can only end up in one outcome surely? a carbon copy of Aston Villa
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Bit odd to appoint an assistant before appointing a manager, isn't it?
Just one look at all those years of experience forced their hand before someone else snapped him up.
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Selling all the best players (Wayana and Mane) hiring an unproven french manager, Eric Black as assitant, it can only end up in one outcome surely? a carbon copy of Aston Villa
Half their squad have spent the summer at the Euro's, good players, most of ours have spent it at Butlins.
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New assistant manager at Southampton
Couldn't make it up could you
The new manager is French. Black speaks French. That would have helped him.
Now where have we seen that before? Seems his ability to speak French is considered more important than his coaching.
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Ah, never mind. I hadn't heard that they had appointed someone, and even checked wikipedia, which still has the position vacant.
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It's truly amazing how such incompetance can secure you another job so quickly...
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Southampton to be relegated. You heard it here first.
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I'm pretty sure any Southampton fans reading this thread wont be too overjoyed by this appointment.
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New assistant manager at Southampton
Couldn't make it up could you
The new manager is French. Black speaks French. That would have helped him.
Now where have we seen that before? Seems his ability to speak French is considered more important than his coaching.
Seems to be a pretty mindblowing appointment
It'll be really interesting to see how they fare next season.
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Southampton to be relegated. You heard it here first.
Absolutely. Untried French Manager with Eric Black "assisting".
All sounds vaguely familiar.
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Southampton to be relegated. You heard it here first.
Absolutely. Untried French Manager with Eric Black "assisting".
All sounds vaguely familiar.
sell your best midfielder and striker ... yep
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Black will go relatively unnoticed until the manager gets the sack, then, Southampton fans will really see what they have.
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New assistant manager at Southampton
Couldn't make it up could you
The new manager is French. Black speaks French. That would have helped him.
Now where have we seen that before? Seems his ability to speak French is considered more important than his coaching.
It beggars belief. Mind you, even if he's capable of uttering "Oui" and "Non" - his French would be infinitely better than his coaching ability. God help Southampton.
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Southampton to be relegated. You heard it here first.
Absolutely. Untried French Manager with Eric Black "assisting".
All sounds vaguely familiar.
He's hardly untried, though, he's been a manager since 1999.
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Selling all the best players (Wayana and Mane) hiring an unproven french manager, Eric Black as assitant, it can only end up in one outcome surely? a carbon copy of Aston Villa
Half their squad have spent the summer at the Euro's, good players, most of ours have spent it at Butlins.
I didn't know that Butlins had opened camps in Dubai and Las Vegas. I had a summer holiday job in Minehead in 1975 just after most of the staff had been fired after a full scale riot against the security bods who had badly beaten one of their number.
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How on earth has that ring piece managed to get another job?
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The world is indeed a weird place. Bizarre.
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How does the interview go? So Eric tell me about your accomplishments and especially your last job. How did that go? How many games did you win?
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"I've got thirty-five years experience!"
"Oh yes. Forgive me Eric. How embarrassing. (Genuflects). Do you want to be paid weekly or monthly? Is there anything I can get you? Smashing tie, by the way..."
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Erick Black for PM. The French will help in negotiations and will ignore anyone who disagrees with him.
Seriously though Southampton will be in trouble. You can't keep selling your best players. I know they've done well so far but one day those 4 new signings will not be as good expected. It's too risky to keep trying at the level they've reached.
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It is amazing how many totally failed Managers and coaches keep getting new jobs within Football
Once you are on the "gravy train" it never seems to end.
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I really had a chuckle when I read he was Southampton's new assistant manager.
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I really had a chuckle when I read he was Southampton's new assistant manager.
Maybe we'll swap places with come next May👍
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I really had a chuckle when I read he was Southampton's new assistant manager.
I actually feel sorry for Southampton.
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Tbf Black is a completely different situation and at a stable club. Villa needed him to do a temp job and he was unsuccessful but doesn't mean he won't be any good at Southampton.
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Eric hasn't been any good, anywhere, though.
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It is amazing how many totally failed Managers and coaches keep getting new jobs within Football
Once you are on the "gravy train" it never seems to end.
Yes. I can't believe he is in employment at a football club again. I was only ever expecting to see him as a character in a Viz strip, "Eric Black, his selections are cack".
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Sorry to disagree footy but Eric Black was not "unsuccessful" at our club. He managed the virtually impossible task of being worse than O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, KMac, Sherwood and Garde. With a free hit and no pressure or blame he took what we all thought was the bottom of the pit of football supporters hell and went deeper. I have never been so glad to see the back of somebody.
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Tbf Black is a completely different situation and at a stable club. Villa needed him to do a temp job and he was unsuccessful but doesn't mean he won't be any good at Southampton.
That's very gracious of you Footyskillz.
Unfortunately, after the filth he dished out week after week to us last season, I only wish that everything he touches from now on turns to shit. I feel for Southampton.
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I'm not completely sure about these but wasn't he at Celtic when Barnes was manager, Blackburn with Steve Kean, Blackpool with Ferguson, helped Bruce get the rags relegated and then obviously his time with us. Not sure if there's any more but that's a lot of experience of being at clubs when they've been pretty shit.
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Coventry was another success story.
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Saints have obviously appointed him on that 35 years experience he has in the game and not on what he achieved last season
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He didn't exactly come with a 'glowing reference' when we poached him from Rotherham either.
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It seems like with us his key skill is an English coach that is fluent in French
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Expose in tomorrow's Torygraph apparently.
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In the words of Kelvin Koogan "I would love it..."
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there is a god
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Expose in tomorrow's Torygraph apparently.
Exposed as being utter pish?
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Expose in tomorrow's Torygraph apparently.
Exposed as being utter pish?
No, I think there will be at least some attempt at telling us something we don't already know.
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let's face it if the corruption ever involves players throwing matches we are going to be bang to rights
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let's face it if the corruption ever involves players throwing matches we are going to be bang to rights
Our players last year weren't corrupt, they were just crap.
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Next they'll be telling us he hasn't got forty years experience in the game.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/premier-league-coach-embroiled-in-bribery-scandal/
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Mirror Sport (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/southampton-confirm-assistant-manager-eric-8944486)
Southampton confirm assistant manager Eric Black to be named in 'Football For Sale' undercover sting
Saints confirmed on Thursday evening that Claude Puel's number two will feature in the Daily Telegraph's investigation on Friday
21:28, 29 Sep 2016
Updated 21:28, 29 Sep 2016
By James Whaling
Southampton have confirmed that assistant manager Eric Black will be named as part of the Daily Telegraph's 'Football For Sale' investigation.
Saints revealed on Thursday evening that Claude Puel's number two will feature in Friday's article of the sting which has shocked English football.
Sam Allardyce lost his job as England boss after being filmed advising people purporting to be businessmen how to circumvent the FA's rules on third-party ownership.
And Barnsley assistant Tommy Wright has been sacked by the Tykes after he was implicated, with QPR also investigating Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink.
Southampton said: "Southampton Football Club has today been made aware by The Daily Telegraph that, as part of their on-going investigation, the club's Assistant First Team Manager Eric Black will feature as part of an article in tomorrow's paper.
"The club immediately requested to be sent, by The Daily Telegraph, the details of this article, but the newspaper declined to share any further information.
"We have today contacted The FA and The Premier League, and intend to work closely with both bodies on this matter when the facts become clear.
"Southampton Football Club is fully committed to investigating any situation that directly or indirectly relates to our club, employees or the wider community.
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With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that TSM2 was committed to appointing mentalists and ne'er do wells to assist him in his grizzly task of dismembering our club.
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never mind the bribe, how the fuck did he get another job?
couldnt have happened to a nicer c***
still at least he an look back on his 40 years in the game
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If he knew how to grease the palm how did he not manage to buy a few wins last seasons.
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Jores Okore just tweeted
'My night just got a lot better'
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never mind the bribe, how the fuck did he get another job?
couldnt have happened to a nicer c***
still at least he an look back on his 40 years in the game
Just thinking that myself. The Southampton board need their heads testing.
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never mind the bribe, how the fuck did he get another job?
couldnt have happened to a nicer c***
still at least he an look back on his 40 years in the game
Just thinking that myself. The Southampton board need their heads testing.
that's a board that typically has made good decisions over the past 5-10 years. ...Or was that your point?
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Anyone else worried the assistant might be Kevin Bond?
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Yep, i'm terrified our great run will come to an end if we lose any of the coaching staff.
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Anyone else worried the assistant might be Kevin Bond?
Not the Barnsley guy sacked today?
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Anyone else worried the assistant might be Kevin Bond?
I would if I thought he added anything at all to our play
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Having just read / watched the Torygraph thing, it's a bit underwhelming. Black is basically just telling them like it is rather than doing a dodgy deal. At least that's how I saw it.
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Oh dear... Just read it on BBC web site. Based on his conduct for the the last 7 games fuck him.
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I have just been talking to a former pro who works at a championship club who has said it's going to be carnage!
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Having just read / watched the Torygraph thing, it's a bit underwhelming. Black is basically just telling them like it is rather than doing a dodgy deal. At least that's how I saw it.
Aye it was a bit disappointing. I was hoping for footage of him snorting coke off a hooker's tits as they plied him with fifties to keep picking Lescott and Richards.
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Having just read / watched the Torygraph thing, it's a bit underwhelming. Black is basically just telling them like it is rather than doing a dodgy deal. At least that's how I saw it.
Aye it was a bit disappointing. I was hoping for footage of him snorting coke off a hooker's tits as they plied him with fifties to keep picking Lescott and Richards.
Don't forget the extra 100k for Adama....
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Oh dear... Just read it on BBC web site. Based on his conduct for the the last 7 games fuck him.
Yep fuck him.
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Maybe all of our masterplans were sold before each game? Basically we were not bad, just that the others had inside information
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Having just read / watched the Torygraph thing, it's a bit underwhelming. Black is basically just telling them like it is rather than doing a dodgy deal. At least that's how I saw it.
Aye it was a bit disappointing. I was hoping for footage of him snorting coke off a hooker's tits as they plied him with fifties to keep picking Lescott and Richards.
Excellent sir! first laugh of the day, weekend starts here...
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Maybe all of our masterplans were sold before each game? Basically we were not bad, just that the others had inside information
would have been easy enough to do, postage stamps woukd have been easy to conceal
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The Telegraph headline must be the first time he has ever been described as a "top coach."
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a useless mendacious sack of shit
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He is definitely the sort of guy with connections who keep him in the game but absolutely no talent at all. A complete cock sucker, a useless waste of space employee that just topped off the Lerner years of employing anyone just to make it look like we are vaguely trying.
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Is it wrong of me to be smirking evilly at this latest revelation? I suspect not.
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He clearly knew he had the Southampton job when he watched us, lifeless, turning in the wind at the end of last season. I am delighted that he has been shown up to be the unprincipled, self serving parasite he is.
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Personally I blame Okore.
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
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He's naughty isn't he. Oh dear.
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
I blame it on the Pony Express.
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Pauliwalnuts of this parish missed a trick when he met Black out walking his dog.
Could have handed him the Blues instead of taking it to the bin. He'd have winked and gladly taken it.
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It's bung he's after,not dung.
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
Here's Westwood's thoughts on the matter.
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/4/40/Picture0003.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110623042517)
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
I blame it on the Pony Express.
I blame it on the boogie
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Rose champagne. He has zero integrity.
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erm. Agent just admitted he made it all up to the Torygrapth. Unfortunatly the "journalists" failed to check that to recieve a bung from the agent, you need to buy said agent's player, unless he was giving away free money Doh!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37524416
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
I blame it on the Pony Express.
I blame it on the boogie
I blame it on the sunshine
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
I blame it on the Pony Express.
I blame it on the boogie
I blame it on the sunshine
You were quite clearly told DON'T blame it on the sunshine.
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
I blame it on the Pony Express.
I blame it on the boogie
I blame it on the sunshine
You were quite clearly told DON'T blame it on the sunshin
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
I blame it on the Pony Express.
I blame it on the boogie
I blame it on the sunshine
You were quite clearly told DON'T blame it on the sunshin
Moonlight?
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Or the moonlight. I'm not warning you again.
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The Weatherman?
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Or the moonlight. I'm not warning you again.
Im going to blame it on the good times then! 80\81.
Will that do?
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(https://pics.onsizzle.com/dont-blame-it-on-the-biscan-dont-blame-it-on-2931800.png)
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erm. Agent just admitted he made it all up to the Torygrapth. Unfortunatly the "journalists" failed to check that to recieve a bung from the agent, you need to buy said agent's player, unless he was giving away free money Doh!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37524416
Believe me when I tell you I was lying.
How these parasites can make money out of the game is beyond me.
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you can colour it any way you like, but the fact is, Eric Black was the darkest moment in an apocalyptically dark season. A total crock of shit.
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Absolutely Mr U. He even had the perfect name for his role as the worst of the worst. There is something almost Shakespearean that he is exposed as a small time petty pilferer.
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you can colour it any way you like, but the fact is, Eric Black was the darkest moment in an apocalyptically dark season. A total crock of shit.
I agree, word for word. I would love to see him banned and shamed. Utter c u next Tuesday
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Personally I blame Okore.
I blame Westwood.
I blame it on the Pony Express.
I blame it on the boogie
I blame it on the sunshine
You were quite clearly told DON'T blame it on the sunshine.
And we sure-as-shit can't blame it on the good times... :o
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Absolutely Mr U. He even had the perfect name for his role as the worst of the worst. There is something almost Shakespearean that he is exposed as a small time petty pilferer.
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Eric Black is innocent of corruption claim (apparently) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38172163
Southampton have concluded "There is no evidence of any wrongdoing, as such the club now considers the matter closed.".
I hate the fact that (at the end of the article) our name is mentioned and associated with his.
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I hate the fact that the dismal twat was ever employed by us, full stop.
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I hate the fact that the dismal twat was ever employed by us, full stop.
This. In fact, "Dismal twat" was pretty kind.
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I see Eric black is on bench at Southampton. Yes he's only there because of his French like at villa
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mauvais chatte.............
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Erick Black in League Cup final... Bastardo! There is no God.
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Eric Black interview in the Sunday Times today :
Villa “was without doubt worse”.
Black was caretaker at the end of last season after Remi Garde’s dismissal. “The whole club was rudderless. It had been let go. I’d never seen that. There was an atmosphere I’d never experienced — we got booed going out for the warm-up.”
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Wrong you moron. It was YOU who got booed!
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Not it wasn't dave. He was just part of the whole mess not the reason.
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Never could understand the bile against Eric Black. He was faced with an impossible task when he took over from Gard. He is right in so far that the Club was at such a low edge. Not quite sure what fans actually wanted from him (except the obvious to go away).
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He's right, the whole place was a mess but he didn't help himself with some of his awful team selections.
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Not it wasn't dave. He was just part of the whole mess not the reason.
Perhaps you're right Peter but everytime I see his name come up in association with us it just rises my hackles. I appreciate that the mess was not of his making but his intransigence with his team selections was, to me, nothing short of deliberate spite and, that I find unforgiveable. No matter what, the opportunity was there to sow the seeds for improvement, he didn't take it. Had he done so he could have walked away with at least a small amount of appreciation.
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I'll never forget his team selection for the Bournemouth game.
We were all but down that day so here was a chance to pick a fresh team the crowd would get behind and not boo.
Fair enough he put in Lyden but no one had really heard of him.
He played Guzan, Lescott, Bacuna, Richardson and left Adama and Grealish on the bench.
And he wonders why the crowd were so hostile at that point.
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In a poll of top 5 arseholes that we had to put up with last season I'm not sure Black would have made the list. He inherited a shambles, a mess that wasn't of his making.
He was asked to be a caretaker for the last few months, he did so knowing he was off at the end of the season. He probably just did it for the money while he sorted himself out. He just let the useless fuckers take their medicine from the crowd, not throw kids in. Like it not i could understand that.
He was just another lazy football professional in a club already full of them.
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As I have said before, I consider him to be the worst of the bad bunch of post MON managers because he was the only one who got a free hit and still managed to enrage the long suffering fans while allowing rigor mortis to set in.
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As ever with a lot of Villa fans when they take aim at a culprit they exhibit the same accuracy as many of our forwards.
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Wrong you moron. It was YOU who got booed!
No chance. The club was a disgraceful mess from top to bottom and he was just a symptom of it.
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Never could understand the bile against Eric Black. He was faced with an impossible task when he took over from Gard. He is right in so far that the Club was at such a low edge. Not quite sure what fans actually wanted from him (except the obvious to go away).
Because he could have tried something/anything, but tried nothing different to try to change things. He had a risk-free shot. No-one would have blamed him if they didn't work out, and he'd have been a hero if he managed to get a lucky win from somewhere. It's not as if he even managed to steady the ship and pull out a few 0-0 draws with backs to the wall.
Even the one draw he managed against Newcastle, merely bit us on the arse this season.
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As I have said before, I consider him to be the worst of the bad bunch of post MON managers because he was the only one who got a free hit and still managed to enrage the long suffering fans while allowing rigor mortis to set in.
I'm with you on this Brian. The difference between Black and the others was that he was under no real pressure. We were already doomed, all he had to do was instil some professionalism and salvage some pride; anyone with an ounce of either and some integrity should have been capable of that. He did nothing at all to address any of problems he inherited. I wanted someone who at least appeared to care, instead we got another arrogant, self-serving coward, only this one rubbed our noses in it by serving up and tolerating the same and worse.
Frankly I'm sick of people who were complicit in our demise queuing up to tell us how none of it was their fault.
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He's right, the whole place was a mess but he didn't help himself with some of his awful team selections.
I agree. Why he didn't pick all those stars that we had last season was a mystery.
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Never seen a mgr whose height of ambition was a 0-0 draw, had a free hit to go for it but refused to try.
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I honestly think our shitty start to the season could have, in part, been mitigated by someone at least trying to get us setup and ready to go this season, much like we're wanting Bruce to do now. Playing a bunch of wasters that most of the fans wanted out and not giving any thought to the future is why I disliked him at the time and everything I've seen from him since seems to back up the idea that he was just coasting.
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I honestly think he was trying as much as possible to write off the season, return some solidity, and protect the younger players as much as possible from the toxicity that was surrounding the club. Fans abusing players constantly, the club seemingly going from one headline mockery after an other on a daily basis, an owner that didn't care, and a backroom staff - as we are now finding out, that we either shambolic, didn't care, or just weren't there.
He absolutely was trying to prepare us for the league below and by letting the players that had got us into the position we were by and large be the players who shouldered the burden for the clubs last few games. I think he was absolutely right to do so. We were long gone by the time he took over and the free hand people believe he was handed was a myth. he took over a horrible club at a horrible time.
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I honestly think our shitty start to the season could have, in part, been mitigated by someone at least trying to get us setup and ready to go this season, much like we're wanting Bruce to do now. Playing a bunch of wasters that most of the fans wanted out and not giving any thought to the future is why I disliked him at the time and everything I've seen from him since seems to back up the idea that he was just coasting.
Yes agree. Yes, the vibe at the club was toxic, but still... Awful period in the clubs history made somehow worse by pretty much everyone involved.
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I'm not sure throwing the kids into that mess would have helped us and more importantly, them. They were better off out of it until we could start to rebuild. The kids coming into the side now are guaranteed the full support of the fans and are coming into a side that is starting to find it's feet in this division and gaining the confidence that comes with winning games.
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Agreed, I think throwing the kids into that situation would've done them far more harm than good.
The whole club was in anarchy, playing staff and supporters, but pulling in totally different directions. By February I just wanted the season to end and to see no young, promising Villa careers wrecked along the way.
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I honestly think he was trying as much as possible to write off the season, return some solidity, and protect the younger players as much as possible from the toxicity that was surrounding the club. Fans abusing players constantly, the club seemingly going from one headline mockery after an other on a daily basis, an owner that didn't care, and a backroom staff - as we are now finding out, that we either shambolic, didn't care, or just weren't there.
He absolutely was trying to prepare us for the league below and by letting the players that had got us into the position we were by and large be the players who shouldered the burden for the clubs last few games. I think he was absolutely right to do so. We were long gone by the time he took over and the free hand people believe he was handed was a myth. he took over a horrible club at a horrible time.
I entirely agree with this and recall saying similar at the time. The atmosphere was really toxic, but I was told in the thread it was 'targeted booing' and the kids would have been fine. He didn't cover himself in glory and I wouldn't want him back, but I kind of felt he 'took one for the team' at the time. But in other peoples eyes he's a coward etc. It's amazing how differently we all see things I guess.
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The kids would have been supported, I'm sure of it. Those who got booed had already exhausted our patience. In fact, whenever a youth player came on, I can only remember total support for them.
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It's not just saying 'throw the kids in' though. It was saying that we should've been looking at who had a future at the club and who didn't and going from there. The best player in that period was very probably Lyden who looked interested like he was playing for a spot in the squad. A lot of the others had clearly downed tools and given up on the basis that they either didn't care as long as they got paid or knew they'd be looking for a new club as soon as the season finished. The toxic atmosphere was as much because of the attitude of the players as anything else.
On top of that I disagree that bringing kids in when things aren't going well doesn't help them. That is very dependent on their own personality, giving them an early insight into the level required and an experience of failing can be a kick up the arse to get an extra bit of effort.
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I honestly think he was trying as much as possible to write off the season, return some solidity, and protect the younger players as much as possible from the toxicity that was surrounding the club. Fans abusing players constantly, the club seemingly going from one headline mockery after an other on a daily basis, an owner that didn't care, and a backroom staff - as we are now finding out, that we either shambolic, didn't care, or just weren't there.
He absolutely was trying to prepare us for the league below and by letting the players that had got us into the position we were by and large be the players who shouldered the burden for the clubs last few games. I think he was absolutely right to do so. We were long gone by the time he took over and the free hand people believe he was handed was a myth. he took over a horrible club at a horrible time.
don't agree with any of this Peter
managers don't tend to think to much about anyone else just themselves, especially ones who know they will be out of a job soon and need to show what they can do
this was a shop window for Black, he bottled it
a free pass, he bottled it
a chance to show he was a bit different than what had gone before, he bottled it
the players were getting a load of abuse but all we wanted was something to cheer, something to at least get behind and all we got was a team full of wasters every week, it was a absolute joke, and he was a joke of a manager and to say he was somehow looking out for the kids is to give him a whole load of respect that he does'nt deserve
if he was to blood a few new players the fans would have backed them to the hilt, iv'e absolutely no doubt about that, that's what we do, but what we also do is give dogs abuse to them that deserve it, and that's what they got
the atmosphere especially at away games was incredibly jovial, actually some of the best times atmosphere wise I can remember, thousands every week going to watch the worst team in living memory, but we still a ball, the players were a disgrace mind, and some should never have been picked and the fact they were is down to Black,
the worst manager if you include caretakers we ever had, it was tantamount to a dereliction of duty
you saw what he was like in that undercover operation on tv, there's no way he would be 'taking one for the team' take the money and run more like,
he typifies everthing I hate about football managers especially old school British ones, no imagination, no tactics, no idea, useless really
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If he'd come in and said, 'we're awful, it's been an awful season, I want to try something fresh and new and give the kids some experience' then I'm pretty sure everyone would have been given a chance.
Having said that, there are a number of people in our support who still think Gabby is a hero so God knows what could have happened.
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On top of the horrible atmosphere at home games losing 9-0 at Watford,14-0 at Arsenal, 1-8 at home against Southampton would ahve been okay? nonsense. There seems to be a sense of put the kids in and we'll be all right and the fans will forgive. the fact that not one of them were ready for the Premier League, playing in a God awful team, fans that we deriding their own players does not mean that Black should have put them in. Maybe one or two if necessary but draw a line under the season, protect the younger players and then start again.
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:o
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On top of the horrible atmosphere at home games losing 9-0 at Watford,14-0 at Arsenal, 1-8 at home against Southampton would ahve been okay? nonsense. There seems to be a sense of put the kids in and we'll be all right and the fans will forgive. the fact that not one of them were ready for the Premier League, playing in a God awful team, fans that we deriding their own players does not mean that Black should have put them in. Maybe one or two if necessary but draw a line under the season, protect the younger players and then start again.
What a truly bizarre post, you've made up a ridiculous version of events to use to justify your views and then used it as evidence that you're right.
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No more ridiculous than thinking the sun would shine brightly over Villa Park if only Eric Black had have played those pesky kids. Those pesky kids that have barely had a look in this season in the division below. And the point that has escaped you is that its easy to just say play the kids but if they had have been on the end of a hammering, what then How do the feel then as the fans realise that they are aren't the future after all but then just lump with the rest of the rotten driftwood.
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To be frank Peter, last season was so unremittingly shit that I would have taken losing 8 nil with a team that tried over losing 6 nil with one that didn't give a shit.
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No more ridiculous than thinking the sun would shine brightly over Villa Park if only Eric Black had have played those pesky kids. Those pesky kids that have barely had a look in this season in the division below. And the point that has escaped you is that its easy to just say play the kids but if they had have been on the end of a hammering, what then How do the feel then as the fans realise that they are aren't the future after all but then just lump with the rest of the rotten driftwood.
Please look at my previous posts before stating things like that, it makes you look really silly. I didn't say 'play the kids' I said it's about looking at the future of the club. A win or 2 in that run of games where we had players trying to earn a future with the club would've seen him leave with a great deal of credit and would've made the early part of the season much simpler, drawinr/losing the lot but doing it with players that gave a shit was what people actually expected. Doing fuck all except picking players on reputation isn't a solution to anything and that is all he tried to do.
I have no time for Black because, in my opinion, professional pride alone should be enough incentive to at least try and he couldn't even bring himself to do that, he just threw the 11 most well known players in the squad onto the pitch and left them to it. If he had an ounce of decency he'd have at least tried to do something to earn his wages, and dropping people like Lescott and Richards would've been right at the top of that list.
Edit because I missed part of my point from the first paragraph.
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And I didn't say that you did talk about playing kids. Not every post here will be directed towards you or solely about what you have posted as many people are posting here. Stop being so precious.
Now I will talk about one of your posts...
"Doing fuck all except picking players..."
No that isn't all that he tried to do. In my opinion. He first of all tried to make us more difficult to beat and that coming on the back of that 6-0 Liverpool debacle. Did he do it well? No, not particularly, but did he have to use? Richards? Lescott? Gabby? Those that had taken us to the very mess that we were deeply embroiled in? So, if not pick those who else has he got left? Okore? That bridge was burned. Where else then? The kids? not good enough and if you think any coach would fancy throwing kids in to what we were on and of the pitch in any sport then you'd be wrong.
It had got to the point where even the young players ability was counting for little because of the circus going on around us. And also, as has been pointed out he's had a shit career as a caretaker manager winning hardly any, if any, of his games in charge. What else could he do with that on his cv but fail? If he was as shit as everyone thinks why even allow other players to be tainted by his ineptitude?
of all the things that have gone wrong under Villa under Lerner, and with last season in mind in particular, he has a minuscule tiny percentage of any blame apportioned to him. He may not have been popular, and not many people were last season other than the Hollis/Little group, but he should be designed to the 'I forgot he as at Villa' because that deep his footprint was.
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No more ridiculous than thinking the sun would shine brightly over Villa Park if only Eric Black had have played those pesky kids. Those pesky kids that have barely had a look in this season in the division below. And the point that has escaped you is that its easy to just say play the kids but if they had have been on the end of a hammering, what then How do the feel then as the fans realise that they are aren't the future after all but then just lump with the rest of the rotten driftwood.
That top line is literally a direct reply to me, how can you possibly think that doesn't come across as directed towards me. If you'd broken sentence before the silly 'pesky kids' comment you might have a point.
Tried to make us more difficult to beat - he said that much but the fact that we conceded 18 goals in 7 games shows that he didn't come close to doing that, our defensive record under him was the worst it had been all season.
Couldn't use Okore - No one's fault but his own, quite why he decided to take over and alienate the guy who'd probably been our most reliable central defender all season (the bar was low).
Kids that aren't good enough - do you mean like Veretout who's doing well in France and would've been great to have in the squad this season and Traore who's getting regular games in the premier league this year. He brought Richardson in as a left winger despite him being out of contract a few months later despite having Grealish in the squad who most people wanted to see get a run of games. Just 2-3 changes is all it needed.
Yes he's a footnote in the shit of the last 6 years but his approach played a part in pushing 3 young players out of the club (Okore, Veretout and Traore) that I'd like to have seen be a core part of the side this season. Maybe they'd never have wanted to stay, maybe RDM wouldn't have wanted them regardless but all 3 were dealt a particularly shitty hand by Black, Okore in particular.
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Oh goody. Another chance to revisit the Okore argument.
Well, I suppose we need to get through the international break somehow...
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"That top line is literally a direct reply to me"
No, paul, it isn't. You aren't the only person in this discussion. Sorry but I didn't read on after that. It's not just about you and I'd be interested to read what others have to say on the subject.
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would rather of had the African car reverser in temporary charge than eric black
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"That top line is literally a direct reply to me"
No, paul, it isn't. You aren't the only person in this discussion. Sorry but I didn't read on after that. It's not just about you and I'd be interested to read what others have to say on the subject.
Once again if I make a point and you respond to that point then you're replying to me, it's really not complicated.
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How has that useless fucker got a job at a Premier League club?
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To be honest all that people wanted was for him to give Adama, Grealish, Green and RHM some game time. In the case of Adama it may had have made him want to stay. All people wanted was a bit of hope, a glimpse of a better future. But for him to play the likes of Bacuna and Richards was so disheartening. He definitely made a nightmare situation worse.
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How has that useless fucker got a job at a Premier League club?
I think it was solely due to him being fluent in French like his new boss.There can't be another reason surely ? 🤔
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What I don't understand is why Black, having identified this toxic atmosphere, made no apparent attempt to do something about it. Blaming it lets him off the hook, he was the manager, it was his job to try and stamp it out. The “protecting the kids” line is a cop out; if he wanted to save them from the toxic atmosphere he should have tackled the root cause of it. It’s like me choosing to keep my new bike in the house because there’s a hole in the shed roof and I don’t want the bike getting damp and rusty; so my bike stays shiny and unspoilt but meanwhile my deckchairs are growing layers of mould and my strimmer’s buggered. Keeping the bike inside doesn’t solve the problem: at some point someone’s got to fix the bloody hole, and all the while the job is getting bigger and the shed stinks.
Black fuelled the toxic atmosphere by pandering to those responsible for it. You could argue that he set a terrible example for the youngsters he was apparently protecting by letting them see such colossally shit attitudes go unpunished. What sort of message did that send? That fifty percent effort is enough? That you can play like a bag of shite then mock the fans on social media and you still won’t get dropped? Let’s hope not, but that’s certainly the message the fans got. And he wonders why the atmosphere was toxic? Whether the youngsters would have been booed too in defeat I don't know; what I do know is that picking the same wasters week after week absolutely guaranteed anger and booing and some very ugly afternoons.
Black should have rounded up the fuckers, thrown them in a bunker and imprisoned them behind gates Ross McCormack could only dream of. He was in a short-term role, he had nothing to lose. Sadly he was the same as them; happy just picking up his wages and phoning in some half-arsed attempt at a semblance of an effort.
What I particularly loathe about this craven arse crawling out to tell the world how nothing was his fault is that it prolongs this insidious narrative that Villa fans boo their own, that we're hard to please, that we're fickle. Given the rubbish we've had to endure recently it's a wonder any of us turn up at all, yet we do, in huge numbers and in phenomenal style. It takes significant twattery to get us booing en masse, so if we were doing that then Black and his mates earned it. That's the story here. It's not us, it's them.
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Too right my furry friend.
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Well said. Now stop digging in your fucking sandbox at night.
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A succinct rodent rant that is very difficult to argue with.
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Can someone help me out please. What/who is an African Car Reverser?
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Can someone help me out please. What/who is an African Car Reverser?
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=49021.msg2254537#msg2254537. Enjoy
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Thanks for that. Now I understand. "African Car Reverser" great name for a pop group!
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Even seeing his name pisses me off. Another cowardly parasite.
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He was probably the most instrumental in Adama wanting to go. There was absolutely no reason to leave him out of the last 10 games or so; we were down by then anyway.
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He was probably the most instrumental in Adama wanting to go. There was absolutely no reason to leave him out of the last 10 games or so; we were down by then anyway.
Adama is hardly a loss though is he?
Honestly I don't know what the big deal is about Black. When in years to come when we compile a list of all the bad guys who did this club wrong he won't even register.
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He was probably the most instrumental in Adama wanting to go. There was absolutely no reason to leave him out of the last 10 games or so; we were down by then anyway.
Adama is hardly a loss though is he?
Honestly I don't know what the big deal is about Black. When in years to come when we compile a list of all the bad guys who did this club wrong he won't even register.
I think its because he gave off the impression (to me at least) that the thing he most actively disliked about the club was the fans. It seemed like his ideal scenario was we all keep quiet while he could get us relegated with the minimum effort so he could move on. His post leaving comments have added to that impression.
I just don't think he likes us and I dont like him because of it .
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Dont forget he was at The Sty for a good few years so the fucktard had probably already formed an opinion about us from that.
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From April 2016:
"I don't know if [players] lack quality. There's just elements that have been surrounding the club that have made certain things difficult.
"Players react to that, whether you like it or not. So we have to try and strip that away or at least remove it for the time being to try and get them focussed on playing football of a Saturday.
"That's all we can do.
"What we're dealing with here is human beings, who have their own thoughts on things and they have external influences.
"They see things that are happening in the media, make their mind up on it and sometimes they've made the right judgement on it, sometimes they haven't.
"Things have happened that don't normally happen very often to a group of players.
"I'm sure they will take their responsibilities, as all of us will, because the club has been relegated and nobody wants to be anywhere near that.
"Unfortunately I don't know the ins and outs of what's happened. I've only been here for seven or eight weeks or whatever it is, so I can only judge on certain things.
"I'm sure everyone has a responsibility because these things don't normally happen by chance.
"I'm sure everyone involved here, whether you're a player, coach, manager, owner or director, they'll all feel guilty towards it.
"But it's over now and we have to move on and we have to find the quickest way back to the Premier League."
When asked if he thinks Villa is still an attractive proposition for an incoming manager or owner, Black added: "I think it's a fantastic football club and again, from the exterior, I thought it was a fantastic football club, but now having worked in it I know it's a fantastic football club.
"It's been wounded badly at the moment and it needs to come back.
"It's a big step to come back and I'm sure nobody's under any illusion that this is just going to spring back into the Premier League without a lot of hardship and diligent work.
"But I'm confident that the people that will be put in charge will do that and it'll be great to see Villa back in the Premier League as soon as possible."