People Lining Up To Take Pot Shots.

[Jimmy Buffett]

The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienat

You haven't even got her job right.

Ok, I didn't get her job right but that doesn't diminish the point I make about the club being dysfunctional at every level. Where you are definitely wrong is in stating that Fox was getting things right by firing Villa fans who work within the club. You do seem to be very accepting of what Fox says about their working capabilities. I would like to know what leads you to this conclusion. Do you have an inside line that you wish to share?

[dave.woodhall]

The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienat

You haven't even got her job right.

Ok, I didn't get her job right but that doesn't diminish the point I make about the club being dysfunctional at every level. Where you are definitely wrong is in stating that Fox was getting things right by firing Villa fans who work within the club. You do seem to be very accepting of what Fox says about their working capabilities. I would like to know what leads you to this conclusion. Do you have an inside line that you wish to share?

You could say I have an inside knowledge of the workings of Aston Villa built up over the past 25 years and more by devoting much of my life to writing about the club. During some of this time I often despaired of the attitude that surrounded employing people because they were Villa supporters rather than because they were the best for the position. This was symptomatic of the corner shop mentality of the Ellis years - not just my words but those of many other commentators. As one writer put it, "Aston Villa were the first club to enter the twentieth century and the last big club to leave it."

In contrast, you seem to find it surprising, and cause for criticism, that a business which runs at peak capacity for a few hours on maybe two dozen days of the year should employ temporary agency staff with no affinity for them. If that's evidence of dysfunction, then so is every other club in the Premier League. To quote your one example - a steward who "just works here". It may surprise you to know that football clubs often prefer to employ stewards who aren't supporters because they will concentrate on doing the job properly rather than watching the match.

Many years ago, pre-Taylor Report, I was a steward myself. We were virtually untrained, and the general feeling amongst us was God help anyone if a major problem occured, because none of us would have been capable of coping. Then came Hillsborough, when the folly of such inadequacies was laid bare. Major football grounds are now stewarded by, on the whole, trained and efficient staff who might not support the club where they work but are good at the job they are doing. Given the choice of being helped by a steward of thirty years ago, who could recite the 1957 cup-winning team backwards and didn't have a clue about first aid, or a modern steward who barely knows what colours the Villa play in but is trained in CPR, fire prevention and/or evacuation techniques, I know who I'd rather be taken ill next to.

The same goes for all aspects of how the club is run. Tom Fox is proving himself totally inadequate to the job of CEO. I don't know what his criteria is for hiring and firing employees, which is why I have neither criticised nor supported it, but whether or not they are Villa supporters and nice people should on the whole be utterly irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is whether or not they are the best available for the job. You wouldn't buy a player because he was a Villa supporter as a boy and neither should you employ a senior manager on the same basis.

[Villa in Denmark]

For half a second I thought Warren Buffet was showing an interest

Everything about Doug's tenure was corner shop, small time thinking.

Going down to Milwall to sign Sheringham and coming home with Cascarino for want of £200,000 in a team that had already been put together for peanuts and washers. How's that for backing a manager you should be in eternal debt to?

All of the ground redevelopment with exception of The Holte is a tribute to parsimony. We took the final stages of the redevelopment of the Witton Lane in house to save a few quid and ended up in court and fined a couple of hundred thousand because we hadn't dealt with blue asbestos in the lower tier, which was essentially the old single tier resused. Plus the cost of lost seats for weeks on end and the cost of having to get professionals in at no notice.

I don't know how anyone can look at the current Trinity Road and not weep inside.

A football club supposedly in pursuit of sporting excellence?
Our motto?
"An apple well bought is half sold!"

I don't doubt that the atmosphere inside the club is poisonous at the moment, but you didn't need to be 007 to get the inside line on that one. That's been obvious from the second Sherwood started throwing the French recruits under the bus.

You're also correct in that organisations where employees feel valued and part of something tend to be those that perform best.
The danger however is that you go a step further and it all becomes far too cosy and a closed community where any outside input is viewed as an unwanted threat. That tends to happen with organisations with very low staff turnover and a strong emotional attachment to the organisation.
The wake up call to reality is then doubly painful and unsettling.
Sound familiar?

For what it's worth I think we quite easily and comfortably slipped from corner shop to philanthropic charity case without ever realising it, and now 10 years of incompetence on the back of an organisation that was never geared up to truly push for excellence have put us where we are today.

[brian green]

Neat rant VID.  You forgot Doug in his Meg of Crossroads mode going to the Maldives and coming back with Daveed.

[PeterWithesShin]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

[Villa in Denmark]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

And at the end of the day, who gives a f¤¤k?

They're paid for their time and their competence.  As Dave says there's a myriad of courses to be passed before you can be signed off as competent and that certified competence is all I'm interested in when I'm in a ground.  I couldn't give a monkey's cuss if he or she has the Elizabeth Duke bollocks on a chain hanging round his/her neck and tattooed across his or  her arse, as long as they know what to do if things go south and behave reasonably towards supporters.

Them being not interested in you being pissed off at the result/general state of the club is about as relevant as the kid behind the counter at the cinema giving 0 f¤¤ks about you not rating The Fast and The Furious 237 or whatever they'er now up to.

[Richard E]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.

[Villa in Denmark]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.

It wouldn't be allowed in the US. Cruel and unusual punishment I think they call it.

[dave.woodhall]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.

In all seriousness though the old stewards, well-meaning though they were, would have been absolutely useless in an emergency.

[PeterWithesShin]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

And at the end of the day, who gives a f¤¤k?

They're paid for their time and their competence.  As Dave says there's a myriad of courses to be passed before you can be signed off as competent and that certified competence is all I'm interested in when I'm in a ground.  I couldn't give a monkey's cuss if he or she has the Elizabeth Duke bollocks on a chain hanging round his/her neck and tattooed across his or  her arse, as long as they know what to do if things go south and behave reasonably towards supporters.

Them being not interested in you being pissed off at the result/general state of the club is about as relevant as the kid behind the counter at the cinema giving 0 f¤¤ks about you not rating The Fast and The Furious 237 or whatever they'er now up to.

Not sure why you're ranting at me when all i've pointed out is as many of them work at other clubs it's no wonder if a lot of them aren't bothered if we win or lose.

[Richard E]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.

In all seriousness though the old stewards, well-meaning though they were, would have been absolutely useless in an emergency.

Quite. You can't entrust the safety of 30,000 or 40,000 spectators to people who are just doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

[Jimmy Buffett]

The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienat

You haven't even got her job right.

Ok, I didn't get her job right but that doesn't diminish the point I make about the club being dysfunctional at every level. Where you are definitely wrong is in stating that Fox was getting things right by firing Villa fans who work within the club. You do seem to be very accepting of what Fox says about their working capabilities. I would like to know what leads you to this conclusion. Do you have an inside line that you wish to share?

You could say I have an inside knowledge of the workings of Aston Villa built up over the past 25 years and more by devoting much of my life to writing about the club. During some of this time I often despaired of the attitude that surrounded employing people because they were Villa supporters rather than because they were the best for the position. This was symptomatic of the corner shop mentality of the Ellis years - not just my words but those of many other commentators. As one writer put it, "Aston Villa were the first club to enter the twentieth century and the last big club to leave it."

In contrast, you seem to find it surprising, and cause for criticism, that a business which runs at peak capacity for a few hours on maybe two dozen days of the year should employ temporary agency staff with no affinity for them. If that's evidence of dysfunction, then so is every other club in the Premier League. To quote your one example - a steward who "just works here". It may surprise you to know that football clubs often prefer to employ stewards who aren't supporters because they will concentrate on doing the job properly rather than watching the match.

Many years ago, pre-Taylor Report, I was a steward myself. We were virtually untrained, and the general feeling amongst us was God help anyone if a major problem occured, because none of us would have been capable of coping. Then came Hillsborough, when the folly of such inadequacies was laid bare. Major football grounds are now stewarded by, on the whole, trained and efficient staff who might not support the club where they work but are good at the job they are doing. Given the choice of being helped by a steward of thirty years ago, who could recite the 1957 cup-winning team backwards and didn't have a clue about first aid, or a modern steward who barely knows what colours the Villa play in but is trained in CPR, fire prevention and/or evacuation techniques, I know who I'd rather be taken ill next to.

The same goes for all aspects of how the club is run. Tom Fox is proving himself totally inadequate to the job of CEO. I don't know what his criteria is for hiring and firing employees, which is why I have neither criticised nor supported it, but whether or not they are Villa supporters and nice people should on the whole be utterly irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is whether or not they are the best available for the job. You wouldn't buy a player because he was a Villa supporter as a boy and neither should you employ a senior manager on the same basis.

I do agree with the need for competent and safe stewarding and as you say a steward being a Villa fan doesn't guarantee that but neither does it rule it out! Stewards should also be capable of showing a professional and customer friendly demeanour (the Fox regime does regard supporters as customers, after all...). I wouldn't expect to be greeted in a loutish manner if I paid 40 quid to attend any other form of entertainment. Some of the individuals working as stewards that I have observed at Villa Park this season fail badly on this score. Also, I am concerned by the move towards agency staff. From my experience working at a senior level in the Logistics sector, where the use of agency staff is rife, this employment model is usually driven by cost considerations. This can result in the quality and capability of the people provided being poor. Better to recruit employed individuals for match day stewarding duties and ensure that they receive the best training available. If they are Villa fans, so much the better!

[clash city rocker]

In any type of industry you have to employ the best people. I have worked for large companies and have come across the 'culling process ' many times. Unfortunately in my experience quite often the wrong people are made redundant. A big reason for this is that the people at the top don't appreciate what those positions and people actually contribute to the business.  Many times I have seen a position made redundant only for the shit to hit the fan and that position is then reinstated albeit with a different title.

[Villa in Denmark]

Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.

And at the end of the day, who gives a f¤¤k?

They're paid for their time and their competence.  As Dave says there's a myriad of courses to be passed before you can be signed off as competent and that certified competence is all I'm interested in when I'm in a ground.  I couldn't give a monkey's cuss if he or she has the Elizabeth Duke bollocks on a chain hanging round his/her neck and tattooed across his or  her arse, as long as they know what to do if things go south and behave reasonably towards supporters.

Them being not interested in you being pissed off at the result/general state of the club is about as relevant as the kid behind the counter at the cinema giving 0 f¤¤ks about you not rating The Fast and The Furious 237 or whatever they'er now up to.

Not sure why you're ranting at me when all i've pointed out is as many of them work at other clubs it's no wonder if a lot of them aren't bothered if we win or lose.

Sorry PWS, wasn't meant to be a rant at you, but the concept that they can only be any good if they've got god knows how many years booking history.

[dave.woodhall]

Nobody is saying that being a Villa supporter should rule them out of employment and that's not happening. If you want to rail against using agency staff then you're at least twenty years too late and of course it's about costs if all they're doing is selling pies or waiting on the corporates - all areas of the hospitality industry are the same - but Villa do not, as far as I'm aware, use many agency stewards. They're trained in-house and directly employed. They are also, in my experience, overwhelmngly professional.