Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on February 20, 2016, 12:46:06 PM
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McLeish - asked to cut the wage bill but didn't stop you buying Nzogbia did it? Or your 4-6 formation at Spuds?
Lambert - delighted to be sacked? Offered to resign? Still didn't stop you breaking the clubs worst records collection over and over again did it? Still didn't stop you being forced to sign that four year deal whilst you were being held down.
Tiny Penis. Talking about us again today I see. What it's like to be in the shadow of a great club. And we need to be envious because you've made progress with that oh so free flowing football style. Twat.
Karen Brady. I'll let you off because you fantastically sold SHA down the river.
Seems we are a big deal to some when we are crap.
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Rise above it, mate!
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A plague on all their houses.
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Funny how McLeish and Lambert have been very quiet about how much they were paid when they were at Aston Villa. I remember reading something at the time saying McLeish was in the top 20 best paid managers in world football when he was at Villa and I can only assume Lambert was on similar money.
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Good post mate.
I prefer the anger to the restraint being called for as regards walk-outs, boycotts etc.
Villa fans have more than enough reason to be angry, extremely angry.
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Funny how McLeish and Lambert have been very quiet about how much they were paid when they were at Aston Villa. I remember reading something at the time saying McLeish was in the top 20 best paid managers in world football when he was at Villa and I can only assume Lambert was on similar money.
Good point. They were paid top dollar to do a difficult job. It was beyond both of them.
It was clear before McLeish came here that he was not the right man based on what he had done before. Lambert, less so.
Yes, Lerner had to cut the expenditure but neither manager showed any sustainable plan on how to achieve it.
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
I'm a media whore. Although perhaps she didn't mention the media bit.
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It just goes to show, despite so many people belittleing Aston Villa, that we are and will always be one of the biggest clubs in the country, not the biggest, just one of the biggest. Of course, this is always denied by our closest rivals with purple faced jealousy but our size and stature makes us a target. This is just the start, it will get worse but one thing is worth remembering that those referenced above lack the one quality that would make their criticisim valid.
Credibility.
In a funny way, I take it as a compliment.
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
I'm a media whore. Although perhaps she didn't mention the media bit.
I don't like her either, but to make that slur is really poor form imo. I thought Villa supporters were better than that, but clearly I'm out of touch these days.
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The ones that are getting me are people I have barely heard of, and people who have never had anything to do with us, suddenly popping up to give their expert opinion on how crap we are!
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
I'm a media whore. Although perhaps she didn't mention the media bit.
I don't like her either, but to make that slur is really poor form imo. I thought Villa supporters were better than that, but clearly I'm out of touch these days.
Absolutely, but sadly from the day she joined the circus the slag/whore/ugly comments were in vogue and detracting from the fact that regardless of gender she is a truly horrible person.
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We're English football's 'Aunt Sally' at present, but the media will soon find a replacement once we've gone down. But that's the joy of wall-to-wall coverage & social media for ya. Seemingly everybody has an opinion on everything & think it vital that they should give it at every opportunity.
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I see McLeish is on about how we will struggle in the Championship. This is the same utter failure McLeish who was able to get a team promoted from it. How fucking hard can it really be if he managed it? Also his comments that we'll struggle because be don't win many games. Yet Burnely and Hull won 7 or 8 games in the PL last season are finding winning games significantly easier this season. I'm not saying we don't have work to do, but it makes me laugh when the Championship is made out to be more than it is.
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I think we have aggravated quite a few neutrals with our old style Southampton or Coventry-esque approach of being happy to do just enough to stay up over the past few years, so it is open season. I was delighted to see that pair go down, so I can't blame anyone else for feeling the same way about us.
For the local tramps who somehow see themselves as rivals, it distracts them from the grim reality of a completely pointless existence.
Lambert really needs to shut his cakehole, mind.
In his final year with us, he looked like a cornish pasty in a tracksuit. Even if he'd got the players he wanted during that period, he wouldn't have known what to do with them.
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
I'm a media whore. Although perhaps she didn't mention the media bit.
I don't like her either, but to make that slur is really poor form imo. I thought Villa supporters were better than that, but clearly I'm out of touch these days.
Absolutely, but sadly from the day she joined the circus the slag/whore/ugly comments were in vogue and detracting from the fact that regardless of gender she is a truly horrible person.
She may well be a horrible person, but the misogynistic insults are like a throwback to a bygone era. It's probably just as well for her that she isn't a black woman too...
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Careful what you wish for. Next season no one will be talking about us and possibly not for quite a few years to come unless we start to head for League 1.
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Whats Pullis been saying now?
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Whats Pullis been saying now?
Get back behind that halfway line, probably.
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as Oscar once said
There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
I'm a media whore. Although perhaps she didn't mention the media bit.
I don't like her either, but to make that slur is really poor form imo. I thought Villa supporters were better than that, but clearly I'm out of touch these days.
Absolutely, but sadly from the day she joined the circus the slag/whore/ugly comments were in vogue and detracting from the fact that regardless of gender she is a truly horrible person.
She may well be a horrible person, but the misogynistic insults are like a throwback to a bygone era. It's probably just as well for her that she isn't a black woman too...
Apologies for my post as it clearly upset some. It was meant as a joke but my jokes don't go down well on here. I put it down to my age.
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She must have had a relegation with blues surely? In which case she's no-one to talk.
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http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-tony-pulis-takes-10917237
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Whats Pullis been saying now?
"Collect those coins!!"
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Good post mate.
I prefer the anger to the restraint being called for as regards walk-outs, boycotts etc.
Villa fans have more than enough reason to be angry, extremely angry.
I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!
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Whats Pullis been saying now?
"Collect those coins!!"
Let's see if he has a go at his own fans as much as he did about ours. Also, will the Mail be asking him to comment, more to the point.
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He's going to sit down with Jeremy in the summer and see what happens apparently.
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If there's any justice in the world he'd leave Smethwick and be replaced by McLeish.
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McLeish and Lambert are doing what mediocre politicians do when they look back at largely failed careers. It's a mixture of self-justification and blaming everybody else but themselves. I'd respect them more if they were any good as Managers and if they offered to hand back the multi-million pound pay-offs they were given when they were fired for their gross incompetence. The best two money-spinning jobs in the world are being either a useless banker or a hopeless football manager. You can't go wrong with either.
As for Brady, I wouldn't say she's a horrible person, just a complete joke when it comes to football and politics. Surely, we can't take her seriously can we?
Lastly, our friend Mr Pulis. Now here there is some evidence that we're talking about a truly horrible person who happens to also be in charge of a genuinely and irredeemably obnoxious football club. For character references, it might be worth talking to the former owner of Gillingham F.C, Paul Scally, where Pulis once plied his trade. If there was any justice, or consolation, in this truly horrendous season for the Villa, it would see Smethwick Barcelona and their odious Manager relegated on the last day of the season.
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
I'm a media whore. Although perhaps she didn't mention the media bit.
I don't like her either, but to make that slur is really poor form imo. I thought Villa supporters were better than that, but clearly I'm out of touch these days.
Absolutely, but sadly from the day she joined the circus the slag/whore/ugly comments were in vogue and detracting from the fact that regardless of gender she is a truly horrible person.
She may well be a horrible person, but the misogynistic insults are like a throwback to a bygone era. It's probably just as well for her that she isn't a black woman too...
True, but a touch of irony there considering her past history and that of her cohorts.
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What's Brady had to say for herself?
I'm a media whore. Although perhaps she didn't mention the media bit.
I don't like her either, but to make that slur is really poor form imo. I thought Villa supporters were better than that, but clearly I'm out of touch these days.
Absolutely, but sadly from the day she joined the circus the slag/whore/ugly comments were in vogue and detracting from the fact that regardless of gender she is a truly horrible person.
She may well be a horrible person, but the misogynistic insults are like a throwback to a bygone era. It's probably just as well for her that she isn't a black woman too...
Apologies for my post as it clearly upset some. It was meant as a joke but my jokes don't go down well on here. I put it down to my age.
Virtual soapboxes are all the rage these days old boy.
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She looks quite fit sometimes but has the air of a bird with smelly b+_@? and an even smellier fa@?~}>
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She looks quite fit sometimes but has the air of a bird with smelly b+_@? and an even smellier fa@?~}>
Hello Chubby Brown! Didn't know you were a Villa fan.
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She looks quite fit sometimes but has the air of a bird with smelly b+_@? and an even smellier fa@?~}>
Hello Chubby Brown! Didn't know you were a Villa fan.
Who you calling chubby!!! Villa forever!!!!
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Pullis is a prize Penis and his Villa bashing is a very obvious play to the gallery at the yawnthorns to distract from the shite job he's doing there. They're as prolific in front of goal as we were under Lamberk. The man is a twat, and I'd love it, just love it, if he relegated the six fingered bastards
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Very strange woman Brady. used to see her regularly careering wildy down old load lane in her sports car 20 years ago, couldn't drive to save her life. Very small, almost a dwarf . Used to see her regularly in the Masons in solihull with her dwarf husband. We studiously ignored her and never said anything because, well even SHA fans deserve a drink in peace now and then. Used to stare at us all nite like daring us to say something to the point it got quite annoying, so we moved away from them whenever they turned up. Very strange...
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I see McLeish is on about how we will struggle in the Championship. This is the same utter failure McLeish who was able to get a team promoted from it. How fucking hard can it really be if he managed it? Also his comments that we'll struggle because be don't win many games. Yet Burnely and Hull won 7 or 8 games in the PL last season are finding winning games significantly easier this season. I'm not saying we don't have work to do, but it makes me laugh when the Championship is made out to be more than it is.
That man was a Lerner fall guy just like Lambert. Yes they got paid well and were incompetent (not their fault they were hired/kept on too long).
Under these clowns we probably will struggle in the championship so here's hoping you are right to be optimistic on this occasion.
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Whats Pullis been saying now?
"Collect those coins!!"
Let's see if he has a go at his own fans as much as he did about ours. Also, will the Mail be asking him to comment, more to the point.
Well if he doesn't, he should be ashamed of himself. The player was going over to give his shirt to a young fan. Yes, they had lost but lets be honest, they got a shot on target and that is a feat n itself with that manager. For an idiot to do what he did could have ruined someones life
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it still beggars belief that Alex McLeish managed our club
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it still beggars belief that Alex McLeish managed our club
That's the biggie for me, the one thing that I can not believe they did.
That is how stupid those people were - they actually, genuinely thought that appointing the man who had just relegated Small Heath while playing the worst football known to man was a good idea.
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She looks quite fit sometimes but has the air of a bird with smelly b+_@? and an even smellier fa@?~}>
I saw her in BHX once and she looked dreadful.
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Whats Pullis been saying now?
Look at Villa! No please look at Villa! It's the only way you might not realise that I actually hate football, and everything to do with football, and that's why I just like very big men who can head the ball away from our penalty area as long as they don't pass the half way line. As soon as they pass the half way line I don't know what the fuck is going on to be honest, sorry. But hey, what about Villa, eh? EH? LOOK AT VILLA FOR GOD'S SAKE
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More from Elaine Rose (sorry if posted anywhere else)
Hospitality host Elaine Rose is the grandmother who has put the boot into Aston Villa after quitting her job at the club.
A fan of 40 years with more than 1,000 matches under her belt, she wants to be a thorn in the club's side until fans can actually look forward to going to matches again.
Here's Elaine's outspoken view on all things Villa.
Should any of the players be kept for next season?
Micah Richards – he’s the only one in the team with any passion.
Gabby (Agbonlahor) has had his day now, definitely.
Jordan Ayew, I think I would hang on to him, but he’s a bit of trouble.
Joleon Lescott? Get rid for insulting the fans.
Guzan? He had a good season about three years ago. A lovely, lovely guy... but a liability.
If (CEO) Tom Fox had an ounce of self-respect, he would walk out after what he has done to this club.
Former chief executive Paul Faulkner was very approachable and you could have a chat and a laugh with him. Not with Fox. He was a commercial guy with little knowledge of football, which goes for the whole of the board really.
Elaine on Villa’s US owner Randy Lerner
He has been, what, three times in five seasons? Randy will have a chat and ask how you are, but how can you run a club from the other side of the world?
On former owner Doug Ellis
llis
I made the mistake once of wanting him out, but even though he was trigger happy we would never have got into this position under him. He still comes to every match even though he can barely walk.
Elaine on watching Villa
I am still clinging on to the hope that we won’t go down, but you can hardly cheer each goal because you think something bad might happen afterwards.
On Tim Sherwood, the manager at the start of this season
I liked Tim. With him, what you see is what you get. He was made a scapegoat.
I don’t think they were his purchases. We should have given him more time and we would have been all right.
On Remi Garde (Villa’s ninth manager this century)
I think he’s a ‘Yes’ man, when we need someone who will put their foot down.
I think we should have gone for someone with Premier League experience like Moyes.
OnPaul Lambert (preceded Tim Sherwood)
At the time, I wanted him gone. But now, looking back, I don’t blame him.
On Martin O’Neill (the manager before Gerard Houllier and Alex McLeish led on to Paul Lambert)
He had us playing exciting football and we had successive top six finishes.
He was accused of spending money, but who wouldn’t if they had an open cheque book.
It must have been galling to lose his star players and when we went to watch a pre-season friendly in Portugal I could tell from his body language he was about to walk.
The timing stank, but he’s a man of principle.
Villa got relegated in 1986-87 after winning the European Cup in 1982. What’s the difference this time?
The players wanted to play for the club then. Now they are having a laugh and a joke with each other.
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Jordan Ayew - a bit of trouble. Thanks for that wisdom Elaine. Stick to biscuits.
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Micah Richards shows passion? When was that?
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Micah Richards shows passion? When was that?
When he was offered biscuits, especially bourbons.
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Micah Richards shows passion? When was that?
When he was offered biscuits, especially bourbons.
Well he was laughing like a passionate hyena whilst playing Bad Santa.
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I take it that due to the fact she's working at the time she hasn't actually seen Richards play?
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Or Sherwood/Lambert manage?
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She's becoming a bit of a joke.
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I wish our midfield would learn from this and take a few more pot shots.
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Westwood's shots are like goal kicks.
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Well if she said we should have stuck with Sherwood, she must be right. Shows what we know.
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She appears to be basing her opinions on whether or not senior staff say 'hi there' to her as they walk into Reception.
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She appears to be basing her opinions on whether or not senior staff say 'hi there' to her as they walk into Reception.
Which makes me wonder whether something that should have happened years ago is finally happening. Villa Park has always been a very nice, easy place to work. Neutral commentators often talk about the happy, friendly family atmosphere. I wonder if one of the few things Tom Fox has got right is to have shook that up and got staff to do the job they're paid to do.
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She appears to be basing her opinions on whether or not senior staff say 'hi there' to her as they walk into Reception.
Which makes me wonder whether something that should have happened years ago is finally happening. Villa Park has always been a very nice, easy place to work. Neutral commentators often talk about the happy, friendly family atmosphere. I wonder if one of the few things Tom Fox has got right is to have shook that up and got staff to do the job they're paid to do.
So, were we doing better overall as a club when it was a happier place to work?
Making a place 'less happy' doesn't necessarily equal getting something right.
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Get her in as manager. Nothing would suprise me with this club
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In my line of work I tend to have to work closely with receptionists, and whilst the majority are lovely people, there a some that firmly believe that because they are the face of the company, then they are the most important.
Another thing I've noticed down the years is the fear of change, and how petty and unreasonable it makes people. In my case the only change was that they will be using a newer, better telephone, but you'd think I was asking them to come to work naked.
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Or is it a case Dave of him being so far removed from reality that he believes people who work for AVFC do not deserve the courtesy of senior people being polite, a good morning or good afternoon costs nothing and by not doing it, does not reflect a well run football club, more of a them and us attitude and unhappy staff normally show that when dealing with their customer base.
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In my case the only change was that they will be using a newer, better telephone, but you'd think I was asking them to come to work naked.
But then again, it was an "to only be used while naked" telephone.
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In the real world you wouldn't be able to do this if you left a job. Because duties of confidentiality and protecting the name of the company survive you leaving. Imagine the furore if the club tried to enforce that!
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It's a pretty bad reflection on the local media that the opinions of the tea lady are making front page news, I'm sure she's lovely but whatever next?
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In my line of work I tend to have to work closely with receptionists, and whilst the majority are lovely people, there a some that firmly believe that because they are the face of the company, then they are the most important.
Another thing I've noticed down the years is the fear of change, and how petty and unreasonable it makes people. In my case the only change was that they will be using a newer, better telephone, but you'd think I was asking them to come to work naked.
A large part of my job is involved with change management and it really is becomes a frightening thing for many people. They have an almost superstitious attachment to things remaining the same and hate being shifted from what is comfortable and familiar. There is a online facility that allows workers to respond anonymously to announcements and it regularly descends into one long whinge. The problem being working in the public sector, change is the only constant.
This particular storm in a teacup reminds me very much of that, the difference being she has an unquestioning media to give her a wider platform.
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Or is it a case Dave of him being so far removed from reality that he believes people who work for AVFC do not deserve the courtesy of senior people being polite, a good morning or good afternoon costs nothing and by not doing it, does not reflect a well run football club, more of a them and us attitude and unhappy staff normally show that when dealing with their customer base.
I don't know. I don't know her or her experiences but I do know that too many people worked at Villa for years because they were fans, it was a "nice" place to work and nobody was ever ruthless enough to change the attitude of either club or employees. It's an extension of the corner shop mentality of the Ellis years and while it's mostly irrelevant in the current situation, maybe Fox is trying to change it. But as I said earlier, in this case it's only supposition.
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Or is it a case Dave of him being so far removed from reality that he believes people who work for AVFC do not deserve the courtesy of senior people being polite, a good morning or good afternoon costs nothing and by not doing it, does not reflect a well run football club, more of a them and us attitude and unhappy staff normally show that when dealing with their customer base.
I don't know. I don't know her or her experiences but I do know that too many people worked at Villa for years because they were fans, it was a "nice" place to work and nobody was ever ruthless enough to change the attitude if either club or employees. It's an extension of the corner shop mentality of the Ellis years and while it's mostly irrelevant in the current situation, maybe Fox is trying to change it. But as I said earlier, in this case it's only supposition.
The expectation that the senior most people in an organisation are judged on how they interact with the wider members of that organisation is somewhat laughable. I'm not sure in what other field they are judged so.
I work for a large private company of around 35,000 people; when someone who runs part of that organisation circa 5k is on my floor and doesn't stop to talk to me I don't use that as an excuse to portray him as terrible at his job. It's totally irrelevant.
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In my line of work I tend to have to work closely with receptionists, and whilst the majority are lovely people, there a some that firmly believe that because they are the face of the company, then they are the most important.
Another thing I've noticed down the years is the fear of change, and how petty and unreasonable it makes people. In my case the only change was that they will be using a newer, better telephone, but you'd think I was asking them to come to work naked.
A large part of my job is involved with change management and it really is becomes a frightening thing for many people. They have an almost superstitious attachment to things remaining the same and hate being shifted from what is comfortable and familiar. There is a online facility that allows workers to respond anonymously to announcements and it regularly descends into one long whinge. The problem being working in the public sector, change is the only constant.
This particular storm in a teacup reminds me very much of that, the difference being she has an unquestioning media to give her a wider platform.
I recognise all of that Chris, apart from change being the only constant is not unique to the public sector. The only thing that's changed with respect to that in the nearly 30 years I've been working in the chemicals and oil industries, 2 industries you might think would have all of that kind of shit in place by now, is the increasing frequency of change and the ever shorter life cycles of whatever fad we're now implementing. After 15 years or so, you realise that it's all the same shit on continuous loop with different suits making money off the same old snake skin oil.
But then I'm a fine one to talk. We're moving into a new office block at the end of next week and I'm dreading it.
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Or is it a case Dave of him being so far removed from reality that he believes people who work for AVFC do not deserve the courtesy of senior people being polite, a good morning or good afternoon costs nothing and by not doing it, does not reflect a well run football club, more of a them and us attitude and unhappy staff normally show that when dealing with their customer base.
I don't know. I don't know her or her experiences but I do know that too many people worked at Villa for years because they were fans, it was a "nice" place to work and nobody was ever ruthless enough to change the attitude of either club or employees. It's an extension of the corner shop mentality of the Ellis years and while it's mostly irrelevant in the current situation, maybe Fox is trying to change it. But as I said earlier, in this case it's only supposition.
I said somewhere else, it's been run like another philanthropic venture and not a sporting organisation in pursuit of excellence. It would be a pretty natural and comfortable continuation of the Doug, corner shop years, just with the flow of money being in instead of out.
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In my line of work I tend to have to work closely with receptionists
I see ;)
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She appears to be basing her opinions on whether or not senior staff say 'hi there' to her as they walk into Reception.
Which makes me wonder whether something that should have happened years ago is finally happening. Villa Park has always been a very nice, easy place to work. Neutral commentators often talk about the happy, friendly family atmosphere. I wonder if one of the few things Tom Fox has got right is to have shook that up and got staff to do the job they're paid to do.
So, were we doing better overall as a club when it was a happier place to work?
Making a place 'less happy' doesn't necessarily equal getting something right.
We were doing better, worse and in the middle. In the Ellis years the corner shop mentality that permeated through to the staff held us back and one of Lerner's earliest mistakes was not doing away with this from the off.
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In my case the only change was that they will be using a newer, better telephone, but you'd think I was asking them to come to work naked.
But then again, it was an "to only be used while naked" telephone.
It was the ergonomically designed handset they seemed to baulk at:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21d1VoJGl5L._SY355_.jpg)
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Gar Thomas AVFC is not a 35k employment business and management attitude in a fairly small business by the amount of people it employs, has a telling effect on staff moral.
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One snippet I didn't pay huge attention to at the time, but may back what Dave is guessing here, was from Fox at the pre AGM meeting.
We asked about long term staff being let go and his response was along the lines of nobody would be let go of off they were up to the job.
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The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienated.
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Herbert didn't run a corner shop operation? No further questions your honour.
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The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienated.
You haven't even got her job right.
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The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienat
You haven't even got her job right.
Ok, I didn't get her job right but that doesn't diminish the point I make about the club being dysfunctional at every level. Where you are definitely wrong is in stating that Fox was getting things right by firing Villa fans who work within the club. You do seem to be very accepting of what Fox says about their working capabilities. I would like to know what leads you to this conclusion. Do you have an inside line that you wish to share?
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The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienat
You haven't even got her job right.
Ok, I didn't get her job right but that doesn't diminish the point I make about the club being dysfunctional at every level. Where you are definitely wrong is in stating that Fox was getting things right by firing Villa fans who work within the club. You do seem to be very accepting of what Fox says about their working capabilities. I would like to know what leads you to this conclusion. Do you have an inside line that you wish to share?
You could say I have an inside knowledge of the workings of Aston Villa built up over the past 25 years and more by devoting much of my life to writing about the club. During some of this time I often despaired of the attitude that surrounded employing people because they were Villa supporters rather than because they were the best for the position. This was symptomatic of the corner shop mentality of the Ellis years - not just my words but those of many other commentators. As one writer put it, "Aston Villa were the first club to enter the twentieth century and the last big club to leave it."
In contrast, you seem to find it surprising, and cause for criticism, that a business which runs at peak capacity for a few hours on maybe two dozen days of the year should employ temporary agency staff with no affinity for them. If that's evidence of dysfunction, then so is every other club in the Premier League. To quote your one example - a steward who "just works here". It may surprise you to know that football clubs often prefer to employ stewards who aren't supporters because they will concentrate on doing the job properly rather than watching the match.
Many years ago, pre-Taylor Report, I was a steward myself. We were virtually untrained, and the general feeling amongst us was God help anyone if a major problem occured, because none of us would have been capable of coping. Then came Hillsborough, when the folly of such inadequacies was laid bare. Major football grounds are now stewarded by, on the whole, trained and efficient staff who might not support the club where they work but are good at the job they are doing. Given the choice of being helped by a steward of thirty years ago, who could recite the 1957 cup-winning team backwards and didn't have a clue about first aid, or a modern steward who barely knows what colours the Villa play in but is trained in CPR, fire prevention and/or evacuation techniques, I know who I'd rather be taken ill next to.
The same goes for all aspects of how the club is run. Tom Fox is proving himself totally inadequate to the job of CEO. I don't know what his criteria is for hiring and firing employees, which is why I have neither criticised nor supported it, but whether or not they are Villa supporters and nice people should on the whole be utterly irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is whether or not they are the best available for the job. You wouldn't buy a player because he was a Villa supporter as a boy and neither should you employ a senior manager on the same basis.
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For half a second I thought Warren Buffet was showing an interest :(
Everything about Doug's tenure was corner shop, small time thinking.
Going down to Milwall to sign Sheringham and coming home with Cascarino for want of £200,000 in a team that had already been put together for peanuts and washers. How's that for backing a manager you should be in eternal debt to?
All of the ground redevelopment with exception of The Holte is a tribute to parsimony. We took the final stages of the redevelopment of the Witton Lane in house to save a few quid and ended up in court and fined a couple of hundred thousand because we hadn't dealt with blue asbestos in the lower tier, which was essentially the old single tier resused. Plus the cost of lost seats for weeks on end and the cost of having to get professionals in at no notice.
I don't know how anyone can look at the current Trinity Road and not weep inside.
A football club supposedly in pursuit of sporting excellence?
Our motto?
"An apple well bought is half sold!"
I don't doubt that the atmosphere inside the club is poisonous at the moment, but you didn't need to be 007 to get the inside line on that one. That's been obvious from the second Sherwood started throwing the French recruits under the bus.
You're also correct in that organisations where employees feel valued and part of something tend to be those that perform best.
The danger however is that you go a step further and it all becomes far too cosy and a closed community where any outside input is viewed as an unwanted threat. That tends to happen with organisations with very low staff turnover and a strong emotional attachment to the organisation.
The wake up call to reality is then doubly painful and unsettling.
Sound familiar?
For what it's worth I think we quite easily and comfortably slipped from corner shop to philanthropic charity case without ever realising it, and now 10 years of incompetence on the back of an organisation that was never geared up to truly push for excellence have put us where we are today.
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Neat rant VID. You forgot Doug in his Meg of Crossroads mode going to the Maldives and coming back with Daveed.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
And at the end of the day, who gives a f¤¤k?
They're paid for their time and their competence. As Dave says there's a myriad of courses to be passed before you can be signed off as competent and that certified competence is all I'm interested in when I'm in a ground. I couldn't give a monkey's cuss if he or she has the Elizabeth Duke bollocks on a chain hanging round his/her neck and tattooed across his or her arse, as long as they know what to do if things go south and behave reasonably towards supporters.
Them being not interested in you being pissed off at the result/general state of the club is about as relevant as the kid behind the counter at the cinema giving 0 f¤¤ks about you not rating The Fast and The Furious 237 or whatever they'er now up to.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.
It wouldn't be allowed in the US. Cruel and unusual punishment I think they call it.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.
In all seriousness though the old stewards, well-meaning though they were, would have been absolutely useless in an emergency.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
And at the end of the day, who gives a f¤¤k?
They're paid for their time and their competence. As Dave says there's a myriad of courses to be passed before you can be signed off as competent and that certified competence is all I'm interested in when I'm in a ground. I couldn't give a monkey's cuss if he or she has the Elizabeth Duke bollocks on a chain hanging round his/her neck and tattooed across his or her arse, as long as they know what to do if things go south and behave reasonably towards supporters.
Them being not interested in you being pissed off at the result/general state of the club is about as relevant as the kid behind the counter at the cinema giving 0 f¤¤ks about you not rating The Fast and The Furious 237 or whatever they'er now up to.
Not sure why you're ranting at me when all i've pointed out is as many of them work at other clubs it's no wonder if a lot of them aren't bothered if we win or lose.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
Christ almighty! No wonder they face the crowd rather than the pitch if they've had to watch one of those two teams every week for 9 months of each of the last 5 years.
In all seriousness though the old stewards, well-meaning though they were, would have been absolutely useless in an emergency.
Quite. You can't entrust the safety of 30,000 or 40,000 spectators to people who are just doing it out of the goodness of their heart.
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The tea lady who has said her piece after leaving Villa is worth listening to. Her description of the poisonous and negative culture prevalent within the bowels of Villa Park accords completely with what is being demonstrated on the pitch week in week out. Getting rid of long standing employees, who are also fans and bringing in agency staff is indicative of the dysfunctional pseudo plc way AVFC is being run by non football corporate drones, whose only understanding of employee relations is the American hire and fire version. The best and most productive workplaces in my fairly lengthy experience are the ones where employees are happy and feel valued, respected and listened to. I don't accept that Doug ran a 'corner shop' operation during his time at the helm and even if he did it was preferable to the pound shop set up that is in currently in place. Leaving the ground after the Liverpool drubbing I ruefully expressed my despair to a couple of dopey looking stewards. The response from one of them was... 'Not interested mate,I just work here'. I despair...This is not a British Football Club any more, it's an American franchise. I've been coming down since 1966 and for the first time I feel completely alienat
You haven't even got her job right.
Ok, I didn't get her job right but that doesn't diminish the point I make about the club being dysfunctional at every level. Where you are definitely wrong is in stating that Fox was getting things right by firing Villa fans who work within the club. You do seem to be very accepting of what Fox says about their working capabilities. I would like to know what leads you to this conclusion. Do you have an inside line that you wish to share?
You could say I have an inside knowledge of the workings of Aston Villa built up over the past 25 years and more by devoting much of my life to writing about the club. During some of this time I often despaired of the attitude that surrounded employing people because they were Villa supporters rather than because they were the best for the position. This was symptomatic of the corner shop mentality of the Ellis years - not just my words but those of many other commentators. As one writer put it, "Aston Villa were the first club to enter the twentieth century and the last big club to leave it."
In contrast, you seem to find it surprising, and cause for criticism, that a business which runs at peak capacity for a few hours on maybe two dozen days of the year should employ temporary agency staff with no affinity for them. If that's evidence of dysfunction, then so is every other club in the Premier League. To quote your one example - a steward who "just works here". It may surprise you to know that football clubs often prefer to employ stewards who aren't supporters because they will concentrate on doing the job properly rather than watching the match.
Many years ago, pre-Taylor Report, I was a steward myself. We were virtually untrained, and the general feeling amongst us was God help anyone if a major problem occured, because none of us would have been capable of coping. Then came Hillsborough, when the folly of such inadequacies was laid bare. Major football grounds are now stewarded by, on the whole, trained and efficient staff who might not support the club where they work but are good at the job they are doing. Given the choice of being helped by a steward of thirty years ago, who could recite the 1957 cup-winning team backwards and didn't have a clue about first aid, or a modern steward who barely knows what colours the Villa play in but is trained in CPR, fire prevention and/or evacuation techniques, I know who I'd rather be taken ill next to.
The same goes for all aspects of how the club is run. Tom Fox is proving himself totally inadequate to the job of CEO. I don't know what his criteria is for hiring and firing employees, which is why I have neither criticised nor supported it, but whether or not they are Villa supporters and nice people should on the whole be utterly irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is whether or not they are the best available for the job. You wouldn't buy a player because he was a Villa supporter as a boy and neither should you employ a senior manager on the same basis.
I do agree with the need for competent and safe stewarding and as you say a steward being a Villa fan doesn't guarantee that but neither does it rule it out! Stewards should also be capable of showing a professional and customer friendly demeanour (the Fox regime does regard supporters as customers, after all...). I wouldn't expect to be greeted in a loutish manner if I paid 40 quid to attend any other form of entertainment. Some of the individuals working as stewards that I have observed at Villa Park this season fail badly on this score. Also, I am concerned by the move towards agency staff. From my experience working at a senior level in the Logistics sector, where the use of agency staff is rife, this employment model is usually driven by cost considerations. This can result in the quality and capability of the people provided being poor. Better to recruit employed individuals for match day stewarding duties and ensure that they receive the best training available. If they are Villa fans, so much the better!
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In any type of industry you have to employ the best people. I have worked for large companies and have come across the 'culling process ' many times. Unfortunately in my experience quite often the wrong people are made redundant. A big reason for this is that the people at the top don't appreciate what those positions and people actually contribute to the business. Many times I have seen a position made redundant only for the shit to hit the fan and that position is then reinstated albeit with a different title.
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Just on the stewards point, a lot of them work at more than one club. So a lot of the stewards at our games are also stewards at the sty.
And at the end of the day, who gives a f¤¤k?
They're paid for their time and their competence. As Dave says there's a myriad of courses to be passed before you can be signed off as competent and that certified competence is all I'm interested in when I'm in a ground. I couldn't give a monkey's cuss if he or she has the Elizabeth Duke bollocks on a chain hanging round his/her neck and tattooed across his or her arse, as long as they know what to do if things go south and behave reasonably towards supporters.
Them being not interested in you being pissed off at the result/general state of the club is about as relevant as the kid behind the counter at the cinema giving 0 f¤¤ks about you not rating The Fast and The Furious 237 or whatever they'er now up to.
Not sure why you're ranting at me when all i've pointed out is as many of them work at other clubs it's no wonder if a lot of them aren't bothered if we win or lose.
Sorry PWS, wasn't meant to be a rant at you, but the concept that they can only be any good if they've got god knows how many years booking history.
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Nobody is saying that being a Villa supporter should rule them out of employment and that's not happening. If you want to rail against using agency staff then you're at least twenty years too late and of course it's about costs if all they're doing is selling pies or waiting on the corporates - all areas of the hospitality industry are the same - but Villa do not, as far as I'm aware, use many agency stewards. They're trained in-house and directly employed. They are also, in my experience, overwhelmngly professional.
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The danger however is that you go a step further and it all becomes far too cosy and a closed community where any outside input is viewed as an unwanted threat. That tends to happen with organisations with very low staff turnover and a strong emotional attachment to the organisation.
The wake up call to reality is then doubly painful and unsettling.
You've made me worry about the future of my own firm now!
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I'd have thought it's sensible to use agency staff for a job that's serving food and drinks on average a couple of hours one day every other week.
As for stewards, I tend to be all over the ground as I don't have a ST so go where it's cheapest, and haven't seen any miserable stewards.
The only one i've thought was a bit of a tool was in the Lower North a couple of years ago, i'm a fairly big bloke so even with an aisle seat in the LN I have to have one foot slightly on the aisle as i'm too tall to fit behind a seat there, one had a right go that half of one foot was on the aisle and seemed to think it was a major problem. After a few mins arguing he finally seemed to grasp that it was the only way I could actually sit down.
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When I was a steward in 1996, they were actually reluctant to employ me because I was a Villa fan, as they said (as Dave said) they wanted their stewards watching the fans not the match. They gave me a chance because I was training to be a social worker and I managed to argue that I had proven people skills.
It wasn't symptomatic of how badly the club was being run then was it?
(I was sacked after 3 games for getting over engrossed in a pre-match relay between 2 teams of 10 year olds!)
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Gar Thomas AVFC is not a 35k employment business and management attitude in a fairly small business by the amount of people it employs, has a telling effect on staff moral.
No but as Dave and PWS have pointed out a lot of the roles at the club are part time in nature so I don't see the impact on staff morale. My point was more around judging senior leaders in an organisation on how much they talk to and interact with staff.
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Gar I understood your point and irrelevant whether they are full time or part time, Villa fans or blues fans, quite understand the need for agency staff in what ever roles they are employed by AVFC, but they are the face of AVFC on match days, management state that we are customers, so to that effect we should expect (football aside) a setting that allows for a good customer experience, that form of customer service will be led from the top, not good to be meet at the reception desk by some grumpy cow, with a face like thunder.
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any student of change management should watch The Good Wife on a continuous loop. Never seek employment in a Chicago based law firm.
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I've just read that Tony Cottee said back in November Remi was the wrong man and should have appointed Nigel Pearson. His reasons behind that educated knowledge and foresight was because Peasrson would know what to do to stay up and more importantly when we do go down he knows that division better than anyone.
FFS you couldn't make it up.
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I can't ever recall there being so many piss poor football "pundits" as we have these days. Just a never ending bore fest of tired, lazy journalism. The majority of people on here know more than the average pundit or ex pro. They're truly stealing a living.
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I shudder when I see jermaine jeans on motd
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I've just read that Tony Cottee said back in November Remi was the wrong man and should have appointed Nigel Pearson. His reasons behind that educated knowledge and foresight was because Peasrson would know what to do to stay up and more importantly when we do go down he knows that division better than anyone.
FFS you couldn't make it up.
Wilkins putting his 'views' again.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-captain-micah-richards-10938507
Wilkins never got off his fat arse sitting on the bench when he was here. Richards shows no leadership qualities for me. I think he'll be the first to jump ship given half a chance.
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Can't wait til we stuff Stoke on Saturday and shut all these fuckers up.
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I shudder when I see jermaine jeans on motd
"He'll be disappointed with that"
"Stonewall penalty for me"
"The manager will have them fired up for that one"
"Potential banana skin"
"Schoolboy defending"
"He was in acres of space"
Etc
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Reading that makes me realise that there is a good business opportunity for the setting up of a School of Punditry.
The career path of barely literate ex footballers into the media has now become so well trodden that it really should be properly regulated.
A Punditry School would offer direct induction for those lacking the courage to actually coach or manage. Diplomas could be awarded to successful candidates and the television channels, radio and press would have some solid basis for choosing who would pass public judgement on those actually doing the work.
It is time to move forward from the darkness of "over the moon", "sick as a parrot" and Ashen Faced Ron Knee and put Punditocracy where it now belongs right in the onion bag Brian.
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Now we have Super Stevie Sidwell saying he wouldn't be surprised if we had a double relegation (Sky Sports News)
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Reading that makes me realise that there is a good business opportunity for the setting up of a School of Punditry.
The career path of barely literate ex footballers into the media has now become so well trodden that it really should be properly regulated.
A Punditry School would offer direct induction for those lacking the courage to actually coach or manage. Diplomas could be awarded to successful candidates and the television channels, radio and press would have some solid basis for choosing who would pass public judgement on those actually doing the work.
It is time to move forward from the darkness of "over the moon", "sick as a parrot" and Ashen Faced Ron Knee and put Punditocracy where it now belongs right in the onion bag Brian.
I will take each pundit as it comes and hopefully god willing, we will get the right pundit....
UTV
The Doc
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I shudder when I see jermaine jeans on motd
Or anywhere. Christ knows how he managed to become a "pundit".
There are some bad ones and then there's JJ.
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Now we have Super Stevie Sidwell saying he wouldn't be surprised if we had a double relegation (Sky Sports News)
Nice way to talk about your old employers who threw 40K a week at you for a couple of years for not a lot in return.
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Fuck 'em. We're an easy target for any no mark to slag off at the moment because we are so awful and are already all but down,
You can guarantee that if we are looking good this time next season the same no marks will be lining up to tell everyone how they knew we would bounce back because we are such a big club etc.
Fuck 'em.
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I'm waiting for someone to say that they could see us in the conference or worse relegated to the Scottish Premier in a couple of years.
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'At this rate they could go all the way to the Skrill League.'
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If we keep on heading south we'll end up in Ligue 3.
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If we keep on heading south we'll end up in Ligue 3.
Or Bournemoith.
( see Stoke C v AV thread)
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Warren Aspinall has said that he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up just playing as a power league team.
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Fuck 'em. We're an easy target for any no mark to slag off at the moment because we are so awful and are already all but down,
You can guarantee that if we are looking good this time next season the same no marks will be lining up to tell everyone how they knew we would bounce back because we are such a big club etc.
Fuck 'em.
This is spot on Dave. It's justifiably open season on us at the moment and some of the comment is well thought through.I'm actually finding some of the rest quite funny because of it's lack of reason and coherence. We'll have the last laugh (eventually).In the meantime sod 'em it's our club and our choice to support it whatever garbage anyone else spouts.
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Warren Aspinall has said that he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up just playing as a power league team.
Has anyone asked Gary Penrice his opinion yet? Or Simon Stainrod? Or Mark Lillis?
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Warren Aspinall has said that he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up just playing as a power league team.
Has anyone asked Gary Penrice his opinion yet? Or Simon Stainrod? Or Mark Lillis?
I won't be satisfied until we've had the definitive verdict from Richard Walker saying it's the Warley Sunday League as the height of our ambitions if we can get promoted that far for the 2017-18 season.
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"Cascarinho" is one that really annoys me with his insights
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I have one thing to say on this matter; Fuck the Fuckers.
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It's more bad times for O'Dreary. Just when he thought he'd be proven right and Villa would fall to the level of Charlton, they look like they're getting relegated themselves. Thus proving he's eternally a ******.
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"Cascarinho" is one that really annoys me with his insights
If I was unlucky enough to be in the same studio as him, any time he spoke, I would simply retort, 'But Tony, you were so fcukin useless, we lost the league because of it' and repeat it until he shut up.
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I remember meeting some decent Millwall fans outside the Vine after we'd beaten them near to the end of that 1990 season. They told us "you've bought the wrong one mate, you'd have won the league with Sheringham". Never forgot that.
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Warren Aspinall has said that he wouldn't be surprised if we ended up just playing as a power league team.
Our first game of the new season after next (we are that bad they will obviously demote us several divisions) is at Stumps (so at home) versus Anstar Angels.
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Steve sidwell is having his pop now.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/steve-sidwell-aston-villa-destined-for-league-one-4118678
Steve fucking sidwell!!!!
I nearly forgotten that he ever played for us, then I remembered how fucking shit he was.
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Can't wait for a local derby against Hednesford Town, first Villa game I will be able to walk to
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Steve sidwell is having his pop now.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/steve-sidwell-aston-villa-destined-for-league-one-4118678
Steve fucking sidwell!!!!
I nearly forgotten that he ever played for us, then I remembered how fucking shit he was.
The only thing I remember him being good at was a ball boy.
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Steve sidwell is having his pop now.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/steve-sidwell-aston-villa-destined-for-league-one-4118678
Steve fucking sidwell!!!!
I nearly forgotten that he ever played for us, then I remembered how fucking shit he was.
The only thing I remember him being good at was a ball boy.
Getting the ball back for that quick throw in was about the only good thing he did.
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"Cascarinho" is one that really annoys me with his insights
If I was unlucky enough to be in the same studio as him, any time he spoke, I would simply retort, 'But Tony, you were so fcukin useless, we lost the league because of it' and repeat it until he shut up.
Ivo Staas got it right.
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What's really sad is Sidwell would probably get into our lineup right now even at 50 years old or however old he is now.
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Steve sidwell is having his pop now.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/steve-sidwell-aston-villa-destined-for-league-one-4118678
Steve fucking sidwell!!!!
I nearly forgotten that he ever played for us, then I remembered how fucking shit he was.
He would walk into that team now.
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The story about he U21 game infuriated me, I tweeted some African Football expert @garyalsmith. He was taking great pleasure in telling people that Ayews club suffered more humilliation. Although he did add however that Ayew didn't play. I pointed out both Ayew and Bacuna turned out for the U21's. This is why the Bojan story I just posted cheered me up a little with regards to Villa.
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Before Christmas Paul McGrath predicted Villa would go straight down to League One, and this has been well discussed recently on this site. However things are getting worse and we need to look at why. According to Tim Poole on the HITC web site, Paul Merson and Steve Sidwell have both said that this could happen. The club is so badly run it is possible, and Remi Garde added to the crisis by saying on two days before the SToke game that all the players are not giving everything and he would drop some of them but he does not have enough fit players to do so.
One reason for this is the 5 year contracts given to players. Its created problems already - look at Charles N'Zogbia, £65k per week but not playing. The mistake is having contracts that mean players won't be transferred - unless they have release clauses - and thus can stay around and do very little. Obviously the plan was to hold on to good players. What it means in practice is they don't have to work as they get paid big money and there are no challenges to their position.
Garde cannot be blamed, and he is right that the 74 minute walk out plan is not going to help. What fans ought to do is set up an independent inquiry into why so many mistakes are made at Villa. And stop thinking someone will buy they club. With the 5 year contracts meaning money is being wasted at a phenomenal rate, who is going to invest when the amount of money coming in will reduce but the outgoings are fixed at a stupid rate? How to get out of this mess will take more than a few walkouts.
Trevor Fisher.
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Who, pray tell, will be involved in this inquiry and how will they get confidential information from the club?
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I don't see how anyone can possibly have a sensible opinion in February 2016 that in May 2017 we are going to go down another division when:-
a) We haven't been relegated to the Championship yet (albeit that this is probably a formality.)
b) We don't know who the Manager will be next season yet.
c) We don't know what the squad will be next season yet.
d) We don't know what other teams will be in the Championship yet.
e) We don't know who will be in the other teams in the Championship's squads yet.
It is silly hyperbole.
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I don't see how anyone can possibly have a sensible opinion in February 2016 that in May 2017 we are going to go down another division when:-
a) We haven't been relegated to the Championship yet (albeit that this is probably a formality.)
b) We don't know who the Manager will be next season yet.
c) We don't know what the squad will be next season yet.
d) We don't know what other teams will be in the Championship yet.
e) We don't know who will be in the other teams in the Championship's squads yet.
It is silly hyperbole.
This level of uncertainty is what leads people to predict the worst. Uncertainty is never good in business. You only have to watch the stock market to see what uncertainty can do.
There was a time, not too long ago, when people thought we wouldn't be relegated. But now it's a racing certainty. And here's another certainty. The same dysfunctional organisation that has presided over this state of affairs will be present in the Championship.
While nobody is betting their house on Villa to go down yet another level, I certainly wouldn't put my house on it not happening.
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That is a fair enough comment but I think people who are talking as if it is virtually nailed on to happen are going way OTT.
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I'm not sure anyone has said it's nailed on, but it's not totally out of the question, and it would be nothing that hasn't happened to similarly badly run clubs before.
In order to be promoted, we'll need to turn from a losing club into a winning one. In other words a complete turnaround of affairs, a total change in the club's culture. As it stands, I'd say that's most unlikely.
But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.
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But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.
Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.
It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.
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Burnley (even and Derby and Sunderland under Mick McCarthy when they stank the league out) could draw on very recent experience of being too good for most of the championship though, even if they weren't up to scratch in the topflight.
We on the other hand have been a losing side for five long years.
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But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.
Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.
It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.
It really doesn't just mean that at all.
Did Burnley spend five years having almost every record for shitness broken at their club? Did they have players who, by the managers own admission, are just not trying? Did they have an absentee owner who appears to have given up on the club? Have they made a series of disastrous managerial appointments, signed players on ridiculous contracts, demoted players to a 'bomb squad', had a culture of bullying... I won't go on.
We're not just shit this season, we've been shit, and slowly getting shitter for five long years. That's a culture of shitness that will take some turning around.
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But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.
Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.
It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.
The problem is we are more like Wigan - flirted with relegation for three seasons (I think) then went down with a history of losing and continued to do so until they reached Division 1 and are now working their way back.
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But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.
Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.
It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.
The problem is we are more like Wigan - flirted with relegation for three seasons (I think) then went down with a history of losing and continued to do so until they reached Division 1 and are now working their way back.
Wigan did make the play-offs in their first season in the Championship.
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But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.
Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.
It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.
The problem is we are more like Wigan - flirted with relegation for three seasons (I think) then went down with a history of losing and continued to do so until they reached Division 1 and are now working their way back.
Wigan did make the play-offs in their first season in the Championship.
And only lost an FA Cup Semi-Final on penalties having beaten Man City away earlier in the competition.
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According to Tim Poole on the HITC web site, Paul Merson and Steve Sidwell have both said that this could happen.
So what?
I've said it won't happen and I have just as much authority to say that as Steve fucking Sidwell.
Dave Cooper
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According to Tim Poole on the HITC web site, Paul Merson and Steve Sidwell have both said that this could happen.
So what?
I've said it won't happen and I have just as much authority to say that as Steve fucking Sidwell.
Dave Cooper
All these people saying we could go straight through the Championship.
Have they volunteered these comments or has it been in response to a leading question by an interviewer.
If I was asked the question, I would be saying "Of course it's possible but I don't think they will". If you leave out the second part of the response, it puts a completely different slant on it.
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But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.
Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.
It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.
It really doesn't just mean that at all.
Did Burnley spend five years having almost every record for shitness broken at their club? Did they have players who, by the managers own admission, are just not trying? Did they have an absentee owner who appears to have given up on the club? Have they made a series of disastrous managerial appointments, signed players on ridiculous contracts, demoted players to a 'bomb squad', had a culture of bullying... I won't go on.
We're not just shit this season, we've been shit, and slowly getting shitter for five long years. That's a culture of shitness that will take some turning around.
And if our players had spent the last five years playing against inferior players rather than playing against better players (like they will be next season), then maybe they would have won more football matches.
Our "culture of losing" didn't seem to matter when we beat Birmingham or Wycombe this season or Bournemouth and Blackpool last season did it? Because our players, although not very good are still better than the majority of the ones playing in the lower divisions.
Of course, this isn't a guarantee. You might be correct and we'll see relegation after relegation after relegation until the ownership changes because if your logic holds then the quality of opposition won't matter, regardless of what division we're in. But I'd recommend you get some money on it sharpish, as I think you'll be looking at some pretty attractive odds.
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But Dave, we're likely to have different players and less money to spend when we're in the Championship.
Nowhere have I said we're going to plummet down the divisions as a matter of course. But if, as you state, the board have ensured our players are only good enough to consistently beat teams in divisions below the one we're operating in (Bradford, Millwall, Sheffield United, Leyton Orient notwithstanding), then I think there's cause for concern, don't you?
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But Dave, we're likely to have different players and less money to spend when we're in the Championship.
Nowhere have I said we're going to plummet down the divisions as a matter of course. But if, as you state, the board have ensured our players are only good enough to consistently beat teams in divisions below the one we're operating in (Bradford, Millwall, Sheffield United, Leyton Orient notwithstanding), then I think there's cause for concern, don't you?
But you have suggested that it's not going to matter that we're playing against worse players next season because it's the 'culture of defeat' that is important. If that's the case, then why isn't that going to be a problem in League One or even League Two? Surely if the culture of defeat means that we need to worry about relegation next season then we need to worry about it in subsequent seasons as well?
I don't think we are going to have significantly different players next season. We'll certainly lose a few and we'll probably sign a few.
As for your final point, I think that nearly everything to do with the club at the moment is of huge concern. But even considering that I think that next season we'll be absolutely fine, because the Championship is filled with a lot of shit teams and that even in our current sorry state we're still going to be much better than most of them.
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Once upon a time we were a top-six Premier League side. That didn't stop us from becoming the worst team in the division, despite all the shit clubs down the bottom of the table, in five years.
Don't be too shocked if you find that the same failings that made us a Championship standard outfit in the Premier League make us a League One standard team in the Championship.
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The championship has about 6 good teams, including whoever comes down. After on any given season that it's literally 15-18 average sides and a couple of very bad ones. As bad as things appear, just as they would have appeared to Burnley and Hull fans last season we will be better than most teams in that division.
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All this 'we could go down to League 1' stuff is just so pointless and media coverage of it is embarrassing. Yes we could go down again, but we could get promoted at the first attempt or we could finish mid-table. Nobody has any clue what will happen to us next season, but if we keep our best players I predict we're more likely to be near the top of the table than the bottom.
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Once upon a time we were a top-six Premier League side. That didn't stop us from becoming the worst team in the division, despite all the shit clubs down the bottom of the table, in five years.
Don't be too shocked if you find that the same failings that made us a Championship standard outfit in the Premier League make us a League One standard team in the Championship.
I won't. Just as I hope you won't be too shocked if it turns out that Gestede finds it easier to score against Huddersfield than against Spurs and that Clark finds it easier to defend against Dexter Blackstock than he does against Romelu Lukaku.
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All this 'we could go down to League 1' stuff is just so pointless and media coverage of it is embarrassing. Yes we could go down again, but we could get promoted at the first attempt or we could finish mid-table. Nobody has any clue what will happen to us next season, but if we keep our best players I predict we're more likely to be near the top of the table than the bottom.
It's about as pointless as all the "we could be relegated to the Championship" scaremongering was five years ago. Then we knew even less than we do now.
True, we don't know what's going to happen next season or the season after, but taking the last five years as our yardstick, we'd do well to keep an eye on the downward trend under this owner / board.
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It's a bit different though we knew we were well down the bottom in terms of quality for the top flight, but with the Championship we have no idea. Our useless striker Gestede scored a shit load down there, so it's reasonable to assume our better players might be alright if we keep them.
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Once upon a time we were a top-six Premier League side. That didn't stop us from becoming the worst team in the division, despite all the shit clubs down the bottom of the table, in five years.
Don't be too shocked if you find that the same failings that made us a Championship standard outfit in the Premier League make us a League One standard team in the Championship.
I won't. Just as I hope you won't be too shocked if it turns out that Gestede finds it easier to score against Huddersfield than against Spurs and that Clark finds it easier to defend against Dexter Blackstock than he does against Romelu Lukaku.
Clark wasn't much cop defending against Bradford City's Rory McArdle and Carl McHugh, but I hope you're right.
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Once upon a time we were a top-six Premier League side. That didn't stop us from becoming the worst team in the division, despite all the shit clubs down the bottom of the table, in five years.
Don't be too shocked if you find that the same failings that made us a Championship standard outfit in the Premier League make us a League One standard team in the Championship.
I won't. Just as I hope you won't be too shocked if it turns out that Gestede finds it easier to score against Huddersfield than against Spurs and that Clark finds it easier to defend against Dexter Blackstock than he does against Romelu Lukaku.
Clark wasn't much cop defending against Bradford City's Rory McArdle and Carl McHugh, but I hope you're right.
And he's played brilliantly at times in the PL and comfortable at international level when he's played.
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Steve Sidwell and Paul Merson. Why do we care about the ball boy and the lobotomy club president's opinions.
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I have a soft spot for Merse - I do think he cares. I view his dramatics as more of a 'wake up and smell the coffee' call to the owner rather than out of spite.
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The bloke from Grimsby has taken the piss on Lawros predictions. We're such an easy target
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He does seem to care, but doesn't make his opinion any more valid.
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http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/254577/villa-fans
Some decent words from the Stoke fans at least.
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http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/254577/villa-fans
Some decent words from the Stoke fans at least.
A quote from that page:
"Been there done that.
We made the same mistake in 1990 partying our way down.
Villa fans need to show their anger and show it quickly."
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Wow. Sympathy from stokies. This is fucking so bad
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Even worse myf, there were a number of their players playing yesterday that I thought, would not mind him, in fact there was probably comfortably 6, that's how bad we are, wanting 6 of that lot.
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Even worse myf, there were a number of their players playing yesterday that I thought, would not mind him, in fact there was probably comfortably 6, that's how bad we are, wanting 6 of that lot.
I'll go with the obvious question - who were the five that you wouldn't take?
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Exactly Dave
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23 points ahead of us, I stand corrected, apart from Ireland I would have had all 11 plus their bench.
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We are now starting to resemble dare I say it plucky Smethwick fans having a party and being just delighted to have had a season going to PL grounds before going down again.
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We are now starting to resemble dare I say it plucky Smethwick fans having a party and being just delighted to have had a season going to PL grounds before going down again.
Well we've gone from expecting top 6, to top half, to staying up, to winning a few games, to just being around and thankful we aren't in administration. We have 11 more games of nothingness, the only thing left is for the support to get pissed or enjoy the day in whatever manner they see fit, there will be no entertainment on the pitch, all we are playing in effect is some very expensive friendly matches.
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Even worse myf, there were a number of their players playing yesterday that I thought, would not mind him, in fact there was probably comfortably 6, that's how bad we are, wanting 6 of that lot.
I'll go with the obvious question - who were the five that you wouldn't take?
Bardsley is the only one I wouldn't take from their starting 11 yesterday as he was bang average for us on loan but then again he hardly ever plays for Stoke.
Pretty much every other player would improve us though, Butland excellent keeper, Pieters solid left back, Walters hard working forward etc.
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Even worse myf, there were a number of their players playing yesterday that I thought, would not mind him, in fact there was probably comfortably 6, that's how bad we are, wanting 6 of that lot.
I'll go with the obvious question - who were the five that you wouldn't take?
I'd go further and say the original quote applies to every opposition we've faced this season.
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Even worse myf, there were a number of their players playing yesterday that I thought, would not mind him, in fact there was probably comfortably 6, that's how bad we are, wanting 6 of that lot.
I'll go with the obvious question - who were the five that you wouldn't take?
Bardsley is the only one I wouldn't take from their starting 11 yesterday as he was bang average for us on loan but then again he hardly ever plays for Stoke.
Pretty much every other player would improve us though, Butland excellent keeper, Pieters solid left back, Walters hard working forward etc.
It was really rammed home for me when I caught 10 minutes of a Stoke game and caught myself thinking, "we could have done with him" as a Stoke substitute came on. It was Charlie F¤¤KING Adam.
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Pulis talking about us again. As one sensible bloke on the phone in said tonight 'he's got an infatuation with Villa and if he wants the job he needs to apply like everyone else.'
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tony-pulis-hits-back-critics-7863498
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The ones that are getting me are people I have barely heard of, and people who have never had anything to do with us, suddenly popping up to give their expert opinion on how crap we are!
Like WHO ?
Who have you heard of -- that are currently "popping" at us ?
I've seen no one slag us, no ex-player nor manager have actually said we are Cr@p.
We are ;D...but all I've read is a sadness and a shaking of heads from our friends.
I've read nothing and seen nothing about anyone slagging us...although we would deserve it...I've not seen it.
WE SLAG OURSELVES MORE THAN ANY MEDIA-MONKEY.
WHO ? actually, has had a 'pop' at us ?
As I see it, the majority opinion is 'Bad Management' devolved from "Bad Ownership"
~ to put it bluntly.
That isn't a "pop-at-us" that is just being objective.
The Thing Is ~~ we are going down....WITH RESPECT for what we are.
The Mis-management, from cost-cutting then NOT cost-cutting, 10 managers in 10 years.
That is what other people see.
Other people than the other half of the City..... see that, and realise we are not a Club to be laughed at nor have a pop at.
We may be the most RESPECTED team to go down since the Prem began.
Newcastle/Norwich etc ... other fans just laugh.
WITH US...THEY SYMPATHISE....and BLAME LERNER.
;D
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No, it's no use. I tried, but got half way down the post and found my mind had drifted on to other things
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Is it written in some kind of code?
-- ~~ ....
Hidden messages to fool the hun
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Jesus.
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Jesus.
Is it Hebrew?
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Jesus.
Is it Hebrew?
I though JC spoke Aramaic......
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The ones that are getting me are people I have barely heard of, and people who have never had anything to do with us, suddenly popping up to give their expert opinion on how crap we are!
Like WHO ?
Who have you heard of -- that are currently "popping" at us ?
I've seen no one slag us, no ex-player nor manager have actually said we are Cr@p.
We are ;D...but all I've read is a sadness and a shaking of heads from our friends.
I've read nothing and seen nothing about anyone slagging us...although we would deserve it...I've not seen it.
WE SLAG OURSELVES MORE THAN ANY MEDIA-MONKEY.
WHO ? actually, has had a 'pop' at us ?
As I see it, the majority opinion is 'Bad Management' devolved from "Bad Ownership"
~ to put it bluntly.
That isn't a "pop-at-us" that is just being objective.
The Thing Is ~~ we are going down....WITH RESPECT for what we are.
The Mis-management, from cost-cutting then NOT cost-cutting, 10 managers in 10 years.
That is what other people see.
Other people than the other half of the City..... see that, and realise we are not a Club to be laughed at nor have a pop at.
We may be the most RESPECTED team to go down since the Prem began.
Newcastle/Norwich etc ... other fans just laugh.
WITH US...THEY SYMPATHISE....and BLAME LERNER.
;D
Maybe you should go back to all those 'other' sites that you seem to frequent ...
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No it isn't
Yes it is not.
It is you know it isn't ~
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The ones that are getting me are people I have barely heard of, and people who have never had anything to do with us, suddenly popping up to give their expert opinion on how crap we are!
Like WHO ?
Who have you heard of -- that are currently "popping" at us ?
I've seen no one slag us, no ex-player nor manager have actually said we are Cr@p.
We are ;D...but all I've read is a sadness and a shaking of heads from our friends.
I've read nothing and seen nothing about anyone slagging us...although we would deserve it...I've not seen it.
WE SLAG OURSELVES MORE THAN ANY MEDIA-MONKEY.
WHO ? actually, has had a 'pop' at us ?
As I see it, the majority opinion is 'Bad Management' devolved from "Bad Ownership"
~ to put it bluntly.
That isn't a "pop-at-us" that is just being objective.
The Thing Is ~~ we are going down....WITH RESPECT for what we are.
The Mis-management, from cost-cutting then NOT cost-cutting, 10 managers in 10 years.
That is what other people see.
Other people than the other half of the City..... see that, and realise we are not a Club to be laughed at nor have a pop at.
We may be the most RESPECTED team to go down since the Prem began.
Newcastle/Norwich etc ... other fans just laugh.
WITH US...THEY SYMPATHISE....and BLAME LERNER.
;D
Maybe you should go back to all those 'other' sites that you seem to frequent ...
I read that like a marvel comic at a particularly tense point in the story, but still didn't get it.
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Isn't ~~~~~ the same //// person who started a thread asking why we are hated so much having spent their time trawling the Internet to find ~~~~~ examples?