AGM - Protest

[Chico Hamilton III]

I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.

Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.

A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue

*shrugs*

In which case, go for it.

I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better. Or we could just slip meekly out of the league without a whimper.   

[Chris Smith]

The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.

You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.

I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.

As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.

Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.

If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.

Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.

Well yes, and no. We know that lerner wants to sell so I agree that there is absolutely no point in 'lerner Out' signs, banners, songs etc because he wants out too, we all know that. Moreover, I'm not sure that suddenly throwing cash at us is the answer too. At least not from Lerner. The problem is that we have lurched from one poor decision after another from our American cartel. from the innocence and subterfuge of Krulak to the dismissing of Fitzgerald, appointments of one inadequate person after another, and an owner who has pulled the plug far too quickly for the club to be buoyant enough to make a sale enticing to serious bidders. I'm not convinced that buyers aren't there either despite FPP as the money in the television deals are mind blowing.

So, what I'd like to see lerner do is communicate with us. Now more than ever. Yes, you want out so what are you doing to prevent the sale? Is it the cost? is it who comes next? If so, what are the sticking points there? What is the tick list that any potential new owner needs to pass? Obviously we won't need to know everything but is it the minimum an owner is going to spend? What their vision for the club is? We need more from Lerner. Don't come to games if he doesn't want to, but he should be here a bit more just to give a club in the doldrums a lift. Anyone who thinks a stay away owner cannot lift a club that is struggling simply by being there from time to time - every couple of months or so - is wrong in my opinion.

If Lerner communicates with supporters the response from the people making the most noise will be "it's all talk, don't tell us show us". His credibility is so diminished that there is nothing to gain from it.

[Dave]

I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.

Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.

A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue

*shrugs*

In which case, go for it.

I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better.

Or, to carry on going round in circles it might make them feel a bit silly when they end up with a criminal record and a three year banning order, just to achieve the exact same result as "waving their scarves at a statue".

[peter w]

I agree that there will be some adverse reaction. But at least we'll know. We know the club are trying to sell, that's a given, what we need to know is why aren't we selling. There have been potential buyers.

As for pitch demonstrations, I wouldn't bother. Blackpool are in a worse situation than us and look how pitch invasions have helped them.

[Chico Hamilton III]

I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.

Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.

A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue

*shrugs*

In which case, go for it.

I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better.

Or, to carry on going round in circles it might make them feel a bit silly when they end up with a criminal record and a three year banning order, just to achieve the exact same result as "waving their scarves at a statue".

How many people got banning orders and criminal records after the Albion "invasion"? if people are threatened with all sorts to try and stop them voicing their opinions, that's even more reason to get on the pitch to do it. Wouldn't have happened in the good old days, before supporters were turned into consumers and became sanitised sheep.

Any road up, I'm supposed to be working
   

[peter w]

Why not something like laying wreaths at the statue of William McGregor. It may sound overly dramatic but more likely to get press coverage if done properly. Wreaths, flowers, scarves etc. The down side is that it may smack of insensitivity as its only a football club being relegated and not someone dying. but it's an idea that can be player with.

One wreath, one scarf, and a banner mentioning what is going on.

[oldhill_avfc]

The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.

You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.

I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.

As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.

Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.

If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.

Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.

Well yes, and no. We know that lerner wants to sell so I agree that there is absolutely no point in 'lerner Out' signs, banners, songs etc because he wants out too, we all know that. Moreover, I'm not sure that suddenly throwing cash at us is the answer too. At least not from Lerner. The problem is that we have lurched from one poor decision after another from our American cartel. from the innocence and subterfuge of Krulak to the dismissing of Fitzgerald, appointments of one inadequate person after another, and an owner who has pulled the plug far too quickly for the club to be buoyant enough to make a sale enticing to serious bidders. I'm not convinced that buyers aren't there either despite FPP as the money in the television deals are mind blowing.

So, what I'd like to see lerner do is communicate with us. Now more than ever. Yes, you want out so what are you doing to prevent the sale? Is it the cost? is it who comes next? If so, what are the sticking points there? What is the tick list that any potential new owner needs to pass? Obviously we won't need to know everything but is it the minimum an owner is going to spend? What their vision for the club is? We need more from Lerner. Don't come to games if he doesn't want to, but he should be here a bit more just to give a club in the doldrums a lift. Anyone who thinks a stay away owner cannot lift a club that is struggling simply by being there from time to time - every couple of months or so - is wrong in my opinion.

If Lerner communicates with supporters the response from the people making the most noise will be "it's all talk, don't tell us show us". His credibility is so diminished that there is nothing to gain from it.

Throwing the PHBF scarves on the pitch is an entirely appropriate action.  To me, it says loud and clear that the supporters are key to the club and we don't buy into the marketing bullshit.  That speaks to both Lerner and his former crony Krulak, but also reminds Fox that he can't repeat the same party line.   He's got to come across as a forthright, dynamic CEO not another Lerner accolyte if there's any chance of the fans buying into his ability to rebuild.

[Durham58]

I would have thought that the one thing we all agree on is that Lerner's running of the club since 2010 has been completely unacceptable.

Close.  At no point in time has he run it in an acceptable manner.  It's just that for the first 4 years he hid it by asking MON to burn £50 notes for him.

The club could certainly have been run better in the first 4 years but backing a manager with O'Neill's record at that point was understandable, I certainly wouldn't call it unacceptable, particularly as it got us  top six  three seasons running.

[Villa in Denmark]

I would have thought that the one thing we all agree on is that Lerner's running of the club since 2010 has been completely unacceptable.

Close.  At no point in time has he run it in an acceptable manner.  It's just that for the first 4 years he hid it by asking MON to burn £50 notes for him.

The club could certainly have been run better in the first 4 years but backing a manager with O'Neill's record at that point was understandable, I certainly wouldn't call it unacceptable, particularly as it got us  top six  three seasons running.

And at what cost?  It was stupid to allow him to spend in the way he did without seriously challenging him.  At the very least the 2 back 4s in 2 years should have set alarm bells ringing.  That's not backing him.  That's closing your eyes and hoping for the best. That's why it was unacceptable.

[Jimbo]

The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.

You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.

I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.

As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.

Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.

If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.

Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.

Well yes, and no. We know that lerner wants to sell so I agree that there is absolutely no point in 'lerner Out' signs, banners, songs etc because he wants out too, we all know that. Moreover, I'm not sure that suddenly throwing cash at us is the answer too. At least not from Lerner. The problem is that we have lurched from one poor decision after another from our American cartel. from the innocence and subterfuge of Krulak to the dismissing of Fitzgerald, appointments of one inadequate person after another, and an owner who has pulled the plug far too quickly for the club to be buoyant enough to make a sale enticing to serious bidders. I'm not convinced that buyers aren't there either despite FPP as the money in the television deals are mind blowing.

So, what I'd like to see lerner do is communicate with us. Now more than ever. Yes, you want out so what are you doing to prevent the sale? Is it the cost? is it who comes next? If so, what are the sticking points there? What is the tick list that any potential new owner needs to pass? Obviously we won't need to know everything but is it the minimum an owner is going to spend? What their vision for the club is? We need more from Lerner. Don't come to games if he doesn't want to, but he should be here a bit more just to give a club in the doldrums a lift. Anyone who thinks a stay away owner cannot lift a club that is struggling simply by being there from time to time - every couple of months or so - is wrong in my opinion.

If Lerner communicates with supporters the response from the people making the most noise will be "it's all talk, don't tell us show us". His credibility is so diminished that there is nothing to gain from it.

Throwing the PHBF scarves on the pitch is an entirely appropriate action.  To me, it says loud and clear that the supporters are key to the club and we don't buy into the marketing bullshit.  That speaks to both Lerner and his former crony Krulak, but also reminds Fox that he can't repeat the same party line.   He's got to come across as a forthright, dynamic CEO not another Lerner accolyte if there's any chance of the fans buying into his ability to rebuild.

Totally agree. As has been pointed out, wreaths are a tad melodramatic, besides, William McGregor shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as a charlatan like Randy Lerner (crosses self). Plus, it's action on the pitch - where cameras are pointed - without actually invading the playing surface. It also highlights the kind of empty marketing guff, alongside idiotic statements like "we're building something special", that's helped make us a laughing stock.

[cheltenhamlion]

Something we touched on in the past, and where I fear we will miss a trick with the new chairman, is having the football man on the board that can reassure it will get better. Not with corporate jargon, but because we trust them.

The nub of it at the moment is that we don't trust the board after so many years of mismanagement. Whilst they can fairly argue that some of what they get panned for is incorrect, it is that lack of trust that means our support are quick to buy in to every bad news story.

[Chris Smith]

How many people fill the following criteria?

1) still have the scarf;
2) are willing to throw it away;
3) sit close enough to the pitch to reach.

Just smacks of Newcastle to me, protesting to be seen rather than for any purpose. If everyone connected with the club is not fully aware already of how pissed off fans are then they are that thick that there isn't anything that will persuade them.

[brian green]

If I agreed with scarf chucking, and I don't, I am keeping my Wembley scarf only ever to wear for a Wembley victory that might erase the pain of when I wore it last.

[oldhill_avfc]

The purpose is surely that:

We value a proud history and the type of men who built it with integrity, vision and expertise.

We do not value platitudes gimmick and marketing spin.

I can't think of a better way of saying that we can accept mistakes along with the natural ebb and flow of fortunes.  We can't just simply sit back and accept incompetence.

[Hopadop]

I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.

Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.

A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue

*shrugs*

In which case, go for it.

I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better.

Or, to carry on going round in circles it might make them feel a bit silly when they end up with a criminal record and a three year banning order, just to achieve the exact same result as "waving their scarves at a statue".

How many people got banning orders and criminal records after the Albion "invasion"? if people are threatened with all sorts to try and stop them voicing their opinions, that's even more reason to get on the pitch to do it. Wouldn't have happened in the good old days, before supporters were turned into consumers and became sanitised sheep.

Any road up, I'm supposed to be working
   

I wouldn't take anything from the lack of action after the Albion game. Despite the initial hissy fit that was spontaneous, celebratory and good natured. There's always a public interest test and no sensible prosecutor would've run with that.

But an organised and bad tempered protest on the pitch? Nailed on prosecutions and convictions. Personally I'd be far more bothered about the conviction than the Banning Order.