MO'N on Goals on Sunday

[aj2k77]

Moyes and Redknapp finished above MON. He's a myth, his success came in the 90's and Scotland where he won the same amount of trophies as Mcrelegation.

[lovejoy]

People talk about DOL and Gregory in the same way as MON because all three finished sixth, but for me there is a big difference between doing it once and finishing consistently there, like MON did.

Yeah, about £150m.

Precisely. It's not about comparing. 30-odd years of his predecessors had shown that getting Aston Villa into the top six is pretty much a prerequisite of the abilities of anyone wanting the job. People's big gripe is that sixth, and no trophies, was all he achieved in 4 seasons with free rein and an open cheque book.

Equally you can't compare fees/wages between eras due to the distortional effects of the recent TV money. We still spent loads back in the day on the likes of Curcic, Collymore, Angel etc

[Lastfootstamper]

People talk about DOL and Gregory in the same way as MON because all three finished sixth, but for me there is a big difference between doing it once and finishing consistently there, like MON did.

Yeah, about £150m.

Precisely. It's not about comparing. 30-odd years of his predecessors had shown that getting Aston Villa into the top six is pretty much a prerequisite of the abilities of anyone wanting the job. People's big gripe is that sixth, and no trophies, was all he achieved in 4 seasons with free rein and an open cheque book.

Equally you can't compare fees/wages between eras due to the distortional effects of the recent TV money. We still spent loads back in the day on the likes of Curcic, Collymore, Angel etc

Which is why I said it's not about comparing. It's about my last sentence above. He was the man entrusted with realising our "dreams come true" scenario, and he blew it.

[tomd2103]

Atkinson was a better Villa manager than Little. Best football I've ever seen at Villa was under Big Ron.
O'Neill was top notch though and he built a bloody good team here, and I loved the "never say die" attitude of his players. How many games did we get late winners or equalisers? Pity it all turned sour when Lerner bottled it and gave up. I'll never forgive him for what he's done to our club since O'Neill walked.

Apologies for the late quote but only now I'm having a read right through the whole thread.

I wouldn't say O'Neill was top notch even though he did get us back in the league as a respected competitive force in this league.

Top Notch would've been a manager who'd find a way to win us more than 8 home games a season. In his final season we finished 5 points off Spurs or thereabouts. They won 14 home games that season, we won 8.

Top notch would've been a manager who would've rotated well during the season so our players weren't completely fcuked by the time we got to March. Like the clocks going back we'd never bleeding win a game in March under him, one of the most crucial parts of the season.

Top notch managers wouldn't sign Habib Beye when Luke Young was already in the squad as a good right back option. And then decide to play Cuellar at RB anyway.

Top notch wouldn't make a lazy signing like Emile Heskey.

Top notch would've actually bothered to scout players from abroad.

Don't get me wrong the results were good and what I did like was how respected in the press and among rival fans around that time. Remember all the positive stuff about us providing a good third of the england side when Downing, Milner, YOung and Gabby were all in good form?

We were respected back then even if we typically couldn't make the final step. I miss that now when we're derided as a joke to everyone given our results over the last 5 years.

A man who'll divide opinion forever. What's certain to me is everyone involved in this club in the last 5 years needs to take responsibility for when we are relegated. They've all played a part, even if some of it is minor.

His transfer policy was one of his biggest weaknesses for me.  He relied on the same core of players week-in-week-out, but instead of building the rest of the squad from foreign markets and the academy set up, he blew crazy money on players that he refused to play.  He could have had a core squad on big money and then added to that with cheaper foreign and academy players, therefore avoiding the huge debt levels.  Amavi, Ayew and Veretout are examples of players from the type of market he should have been signing from.  Young, wouldn't have been on big wages and could have been eased into the first team. 

[PeterWithesShin]

Equally you can't compare fees/wages between eras due to the distortional effects of the recent TV money. We still spent loads back in the day on the likes of Curcic, Collymore, Angel etc

Difference is the signings were one or two a season and were often offset by sales. So we signed Savo but sold Saunders as an example. Savo cost about a million more but would have been on equal or probably lower wages.

[glasses]

I could give MON more credit for our top 6 standing under him if he hadn't needed to cripple us for the next 2-3 years with players on over-inflated, long contracts and no re-sale value. It's all been done before but no way does the profit on Young, Milner and Downing cover the 8-10 duffers we lost big money on.

I'm going to go back to my point about not blaming o Neill for where we are based on that last sentence. How much have we lost on players signed since he left? Charles N'zogbia,  steven Ireland, Darren Bent, Shay given. So far, Benteke is the only one who we have made money on, and arguably the only half decent player we have bought with return on the pitch and sale value. Enlighten me on how many other signings if you can. Is Alan Hutton going to 'wipe his face' in terms of value? Ron Vlaar, Karim el ahmadi? How about Jean II Makoun?

We've had 5 years to get over him leaving, which is more than enough time. The fact that we haven't got over it is down to what has been employed since in all areas of the club. Ultimately, we're where we are because Randy Lerner is a shit businessman.

[kippaxvilla2]

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/03/24/martin-oneill-makes-shocking-remark-about-his-aston-villa-select/

Anyone see this little snippet yesterday?  Sly dig at Curtis.

[SoccerHQ]

That's the point that Paulie usually raises and it's a very good one....the luxury he had each summer of being given 30-40m to rebuild the defence.

Summer 2008- IN- Shorey, Luke Young, Davies (permanent deal was confirmed at end of 2008 season), Friedel, Cuellar.

Summer 2009 IN- Warnock, Dunne, Beye, Collins.

[eamonn]

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/03/24/martin-oneill-makes-shocking-remark-about-his-aston-villa-select/

Anyone see this little snippet yesterday?  Sly dig at Curtis.

He's a bitter man, quite sad really.

[Witton Warrior]

The annoying thing about MON was he had the right idea how to play but picked poor players to do it.
Every time I look at Leicester I see a MON team but with a good striker, a good attacking midfielder and a team ethic of work until you drop.
Heskey or Vardy, Downing or Mahrez? Infuriating in hindsight

[SamTheMouse]

I think the importance of the squad rotation thing is a bit overstated. Ranieri, who is being lauded as a genius this season, has relied on relatively few players. A core of nine players have started all or nearly all of their league games. Where they have impressed is keeping those players fit and energy levels consistently high.

My biggest gripe with O'Neill was the shit fitness of the team.

[gnrpoison]

That's the point that Paulie usually raises and it's a very good one....the luxury he had each summer of being given 30-40m to rebuild the defence.

Summer 2008- IN- Shorey, Luke Young, Davies (permanent deal was confirmed at end of 2008 season), Friedel, Cuellar.

Summer 2009 IN- Warnock, Dunne, Beye, Collins.

Were any of them better then the defence he could have started with from the beginning of his reign that were already at the club?
End of 2005/2006 think our defence options were Bouma, Samuel, Laursen, Mellberg, Cahill, Ridgewell, Hughes and Delaney (I know he was basically retired due to an injury when O'Neill signed)
So even with the injuries and players moving on surely it did not need a complete new one each season.
I think what gets forgotten with O'Neill is he had a fairly decent defence to start with so wasting that money on a new defence each season was stupid.

[ktvillan]

That's the point that Paulie usually raises and it's a very good one....the luxury he had each summer of being given 30-40m to rebuild the defence.

Summer 2008- IN- Shorey, Luke Young, Davies (permanent deal was confirmed at end of 2008 season), Friedel, Cuellar.

Summer 2009 IN- Warnock, Dunne, Beye, Collins.

Were any of them better then the defence he could have started with from the beginning of his reign that were already at the club?
End of 2005/2006 think our defence options were Bouma, Samuel, Laursen, Mellberg, Cahill, Ridgewell, Hughes and Delaney (I know he was basically retired due to an injury when O'Neill signed)
So even with the injuries and players moving on surely it did not need a complete new one each season.
I think what gets forgotten with O'Neill is he had a fairly decent defence to start with so wasting that money on a new defence each season was stupid.

We were supposed to be challenging for the CL places and I'd argue that not one of defenders signed by O'Neill were top 4 or CL standard.  Whereas you could make a case for 2 or 3 of the defenders he inherited being of that standard.  Just one of the reasons that 6th was his glass ceiling even with an open chequebook.

[SheffieldVillain]

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/03/24/martin-oneill-makes-shocking-remark-about-his-aston-villa-select/

Anyone see this little snippet yesterday?  Sly dig at Curtis.

He's a bitter man, quite sad really.

Yep. The bit about how he probably did always pick certain players - 'usually the best ones' made me laugh. Yes Martin, of course you did. You never left good players sitting in the stands because you'd fallen out with them.

[Dave]

We were supposed to be challenging for the CL places and I'd argue that not one of defenders signed by O'Neill were top 4 or CL standard.chequebook.

Guess we'll see where James Collins and West Ham finish this season...