MO'N on Goals on Sunday

[AV82EC]

Can anyone find an example on any of the MON threads over the years when anyone on one side of this debate has changed their minds due to the well constructed arguments of the other?

(Actually - anywhere on the entire message board!)

I kind of have. I supported him right up until the day he left and then I thought he was a total and utter c***.

I did listen to the arguments on here at the time of his leaving and it very much opened my eyes to realising what a limited football manager he was. I suppose I'd been swept along in a kind of he'll get it right eventually without ever actually analysing what I was watching (enjoying the ride so to speak) I do always look On the optimistic side but I've been much more sceptical of his predecessors.

It's taken me slightly longer to accept Lerners role in all of this but he really is a bumbling buffoon.

[passport1]

Can anyone find an example on any of the MON threads over the years when anyone on one side of this debate has changed their minds due to the well constructed arguments of the other?

(Actually - anywhere on the entire message board!)

Thats because we are debating the issue without the full facts. Into that vacuum comes conjecture often dressed upvas fact. Its those sorts of posts that get my goat.

[SoccerHQ]

Atkinson was a better Villa manager than Little. Best football I've ever seen at Villa was under Big Ron.
O'Neill was top notch though and he built a bloody good team here, and I loved the "never say die" attitude of his players. How many games did we get late winners or equalisers? Pity it all turned sour when Lerner bottled it and gave up. I'll never forgive him for what he's done to our club since O'Neill walked.

Apologies for the late quote but only now I'm having a read right through the whole thread.

I wouldn't say O'Neill was top notch even though he did get us back in the league as a respected competitive force in this league.

Top Notch would've been a manager who'd find a way to win us more than 8 home games a season. In his final season we finished 5 points off Spurs or thereabouts. They won 14 home games that season, we won 8.

Top notch would've been a manager who would've rotated well during the season so our players weren't completely fcuked by the time we got to March. Like the clocks going back we'd never bleeding win a game in March under him, one of the most crucial parts of the season.

Top notch managers wouldn't sign Habib Beye when Luke Young was already in the squad as a good right back option. And then decide to play Cuellar at RB anyway.

Top notch wouldn't make a lazy signing like Emile Heskey.

Top notch would've actually bothered to scout players from abroad.

Don't get me wrong the results were good and what I did like was how respected in the press and among rival fans around that time. Remember all the positive stuff about us providing a good third of the england side when Downing, Milner, YOung and Gabby were all in good form?

We were respected back then even if we typically couldn't make the final step. I miss that now when we're derided as a joke to everyone given our results over the last 5 years.

A man who'll divide opinion forever. What's certain to me is everyone involved in this club in the last 5 years needs to take responsibility for when we are relegated. They've all played a part, even if some of it is minor.

[SoccerHQ]

MON taking credit for Downing is a bit much, he was crap that season for us. Came good the year after MON left.

It wasn't the net spend that the problem was, it was the wage bill that spiraled out of control with the likes of Beye, Sidwell, Davies and Heskey chewing up crazy wages for no return. Selling Cahill and Davis wasn't a good idea either.

Interesting that he mentioned about two players Villa bought after his time that cost more. Bent and who was the other one?

Jean II Makoun

No way would Makoun be anywhere near what Heskey got. He did come from the French league.

I guessed given the deal was pretty much done when he walked that Ireland would've been on 60k +.

[SoccerHQ]

What did for Lerner and MON was man city.  Their wealth effectively ended our hopes of getting in the champions league.  Lerner knew it and pulled the plug on spending to get in it, and refocused the spending on staying in the premier league.  The shit managerial appointments since then have had an impact but in truth are a result of the limitations around budgets.

That's a really interesting point.

Disagree. Man. City were taken over in August 2008 and immediately blew 30m on Robinho. We still spent a very significant net amount in summer 2009 and I think the following season was our best opportunity even with the cup runs as Man. City weren't quite ready.

It's also worth noting that season Liverpool dropped out of the top 4 for the first time in a while and didn't return to the CL until 2014 so they'd have still been an opportunity even with Man. City as Spurs finished twice in the top 4 in 3 seasons and came very close in two other seasons.

To me the bonkers decision to appoint McLeish signaled the end of Lerner wanting to get us in the top 4 and it's been cost cutting and dumbing down on and off the pitch ever since.

[lovejoy]

History will show that after Villa he went to Sunderland followed the same transfer spending and left them in the shit just like us..

Imo with budget he had here 6th was a bare minimum requirement and that's all he achieved ,any other half decent manger would have managed the same.

To say any half decent manager would have done it is borderline dillusional.

[Dave]

History will show that after Villa he went to Sunderland followed the same transfer spending and left them in the shit just like us..

Imo with budget he had here 6th was a bare minimum requirement and that's all he achieved ,any other half decent manger would have managed the same.

To say any half decent manager would have done it is borderline dillusional.

Well... a half-decent manager did do it.

So why wouldn't a different half-decent manager have managed it?

[ktvillan]

History will show that after Villa he went to Sunderland followed the same transfer spending and left them in the shit just like us..

Imo with budget he had here 6th was a bare minimum requirement and that's all he achieved ,any other half decent manger would have managed the same.

To say any half decent manager would have done it is borderline dillusional.

No it isn't, it really isn't.

[AVH87]

I could give MON more credit for our top 6 standing under him if he hadn't needed to cripple us for the next 2-3 years with players on over-inflated, long contracts and no re-sale value. It's all been done before but no way does the profit on Young, Milner and Downing cover the 8-10 duffers we lost big money on.

[joe_c]

History will show that after Villa he went to Sunderland followed the same transfer spending and left them in the shit just like us..

Imo with budget he had here 6th was a bare minimum requirement and that's all he achieved ,any other half decent manger would have managed the same.

To say any half decent manager would have done it is borderline dillusional.

I am wondering where David O'Leary would rate on the half-decentometer.

[cheltenhamlion]

History will show that after Villa he went to Sunderland followed the same transfer spending and left them in the shit just like us..

Imo with budget he had here 6th was a bare minimum requirement and that's all he achieved ,any other half decent manger would have managed the same.

To say any half decent manager would have done it is borderline dillusional.

I am wondering where David O'Leary would rate on the half-decentometer.

The needle would point straight to "******".

[AVH87]

People talk about DOL and Gregory in the same way as MON because all three finished sixth, but for me there is a big difference between doing it once and finishing consistently there, like MON did.

[LeeB]

People talk about DOL and Gregory in the same way as MON because all three finished sixth, but for me there is a big difference between doing it once and finishing consistently there, like MON did.

Yeah, about £150m.

[Ian.]

Under Gregory we regularly finished top 6th I thought, we also had that brilliant start to the season right up to Christmas, the sort of form Leicester are in and winning all the praise. We also had the FA Cup final, OK the final was a disaster but the run up to it as ace.

I remember Greyorys time more fondly than MON, a lot of that could be my age, memory and a hut of revervison.

[Lastfootstamper]

People talk about DOL and Gregory in the same way as MON because all three finished sixth, but for me there is a big difference between doing it once and finishing consistently there, like MON did.

Yeah, about £150m.

Precisely. It's not about comparing. 30-odd years of his predecessors had shown that getting Aston Villa into the top six is pretty much a prerequisite of the abilities of anyone wanting the job. People's big gripe is that sixth, and no trophies, was all he achieved in 4 seasons with free rein and an open cheque book.