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Author Topic: MO'N on Goals on Sunday  (Read 40369 times)

Online Tayls_7

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #120 on: December 21, 2015, 08:02:55 AM »
It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

That's it exactly.  With Randy Lerner came a glorious opportunity to embark on a long-term plan, to invest in the infrastructure of the club and build some solid foundations that would see us make steady progress.  That was the key to success.  Instead what we've had is a fatally short-sighted, short-termist approach to everything, beginning with Lerner handing great wodges of his fortune to completely the wrong man.  Two hundred and fifty million quid may not even have bought a title winning squad, but it should have been ample to buy the knowledge and expertise required to run a club capable of challenging for trophies for years.  Lerner didn't have to know anything about football, he just needed to employ people who did.  He failed to do that. 

I despair to think that after so many years of Ellis strangling us with his miserly approach we finally got what we wanted, what we needed, what any club needs to compete these days in the money-driven world of the Premier League: we got our sugar daddy: we got his millions: and then O'Neill wasted the lot on a glut of Sidwells and Shoreys.  And for what?  Sixth place finishes?  Even O'Leary managed that, with a fraction of O'Neills' funding.  And that was our chance, folks.  That was our future and O'Neill blew it.  Anyone who thinks he's is in no way culpable for this mess five years down the line is as short-sighted as he is.  His reckless spending crippled us, his behaviour clearly damaged Lerner, and our current predicament is the result. Lerner is to blame for trusting him, for not knowing that he was a very limited football manager, and for the car crash we've witnessed since, but it's not his fault that O'Neill is a spiteful, self-serving litigious bastard.   
     

Excellent CB. That's articulated what many of us feel about the O'Neill era and the catalist for our demise. Lerner was incredibly naive and doesn't he (and we)  know it now.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 08:04:38 AM by Tayls_7 »

Offline themossman

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #121 on: December 21, 2015, 08:50:32 AM »
I agree with the assessment but the fact is no club should be set up such that one manager with a chip on his shoulder can derail the whole thing. Seriously, how man many examples are there of a manager not only leaving a club on his terms, but getting the better of an entire (big) club? Fair to say it takes a 'special' set of circumstances.

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #122 on: December 21, 2015, 08:50:44 AM »
It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

That's it exactly.  With Randy Lerner came a glorious opportunity to embark on a long-term plan, to invest in the infrastructure of the club and build some solid foundations that would see us make steady progress.  That was the key to success.  Instead what we've had is a fatally short-sighted, short-termist approach to everything, beginning with Lerner handing great wodges of his fortune to completely the wrong man.  Two hundred and fifty million quid may not even have bought a title winning squad, but it should have been ample to buy the knowledge and expertise required to run a club capable of challenging for trophies for years.  Lerner didn't have to know anything about football, he just needed to employ people who did.  He failed to do that. 

I despair to think that after so many years of Ellis strangling us with his miserly approach we finally got what we wanted, what we needed, what any club needs to compete these days in the money-driven world of the Premier League: we got our sugar daddy: we got his millions: and then O'Neill wasted the lot on a glut of Sidwells and Shoreys.  And for what?  Sixth place finishes?  Even O'Leary managed that, with a fraction of O'Neills' funding.  And that was our chance, folks.  That was our future and O'Neill blew it.  Anyone who thinks he's is in no way culpable for this mess five years down the line is as short-sighted as he is.  His reckless spending crippled us, his behaviour clearly damaged Lerner, and our current predicament is the result. Lerner is to blame for trusting him, for not knowing that he was a very limited football manager, and for the car crash we've witnessed since, but it's not his fault that O'Neill is a spiteful, self-serving litigious bastard.   
     

Can we have this copied and pasted on every thread about O'Neill. people accuse many of the people who could see through the O'Neill media induced love in of being blind to the facts of three 6th place finishes and a cup final. If that's your definition of success under the limited O'Neill you need to have a word with yourself.

I think Jason Burt saw through him in the end - I am sure there is a video clip somewhere.

Offline russon

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #123 on: December 21, 2015, 08:58:59 AM »
As I manfully row against the tide of anti-MON sentiment, beneath the waves drowns the nation in personal debt. How ironic then that some will close their laptops having lambasted MON for his fiscal shortcomings to journey into the Bull Ring and purchase pieces of Yuletide tat they can ill afford. The credit card will take some hammer and you're mortgaged beyond the hilt but still capable of criticising a football manager who was gifted money and told to spend it as he saw fit. Hypocrisy it's called. Who among us wouldn't have done the same? Mistakes were made in buying football's equivalent of Christmas tat (Ivanhoe, Beye) but let's not pretend we too wouldn't have spent the lot. And by the way I count myself amongst the drowning millions so this isn't a criticism of those in debt, many are in desperate financial straits due to unemployment, failed business ventures etc but I don't doubt some are financially challenged purely through the profligacy they accuse MON of.

This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of the MON Defence League.

Offline PaulTheVillan

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #124 on: December 21, 2015, 09:02:20 AM »
Egotistical chequebook manager in throwing toys out of pram when cash is cut shocker.

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #125 on: December 21, 2015, 09:02:33 AM »
I saw the shittiest lantern you could ever wish to set eyes on whilst passing that so called German market the other day.  At the competitive price of......£30.

Offline themossman

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #126 on: December 21, 2015, 09:06:22 AM »
You're basically right though. Any manager in the world will spend as much as they are allowed to, on the players they think are the best value for the spend. Why would they do otherwise when the manager job is so precarious and success is measured over such short periods? In hindsight it's absurd to think beye/heskey/Davies were the best use of those funds but MON thought it was so it is a crime that he took the money and spent it on them?

Also, I distinctly remember a lot of transfer day angst because he wasn't spending the fund being made available (pelty?) and talk of him spending money like it was his own, so I don't necessarily buy the whole he sold the farm argument which has become accepted fact.

Online nuninho

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #127 on: December 21, 2015, 09:18:42 AM »
From Vital Villa's web page - list of O'Neill ins and outs.

FIRST SEASON 2006/2007 :

Out

Kevin Phillips WBA £700k
Matthieu Berson Levante £1m
Ulises De La Cruz Reading Free
Peter Whittingham Cardiff City £250k
Eric Djemba Djemba Quatar Free
Juan Pablo Angel New York Red Bulls Free
Milan Baros Lyon Swap
Mark Delaney Retired

In

Stiliyan Petrov Celtic £6.5m
Didier Agathe Celtic Free
Chris Sutton Celtic Free
Phil Bardsley Manchester United Loan
Gabor Kiraly Crystal Palace Loan
John Carew Lyon Swap
Ashley Young Watford £9.65m
Shaun Maloney Celtic £1.1m



SECOND SEASON 2007/2008:

Out

Gary Cahill Bolton Undisc (in region of £4m?)
Liam Ridgewell Birmingham £2m
Jlloyd Samuel Bolton Free
Lee Hendrie Sheffield United Free
Chris Sutton Retired
Didier Agathe released
Steven Davis Fulham £4m
Aaron Hughes Fulham £1m
Gavin McCann Bolton £1m
Robert Olejnik Falkirk Free

In

Wayne Routledge Tottenham £1.5m
Moustapha Salifou FC Wil Undisc.
Curtis Davies West Brom Loan
Zat Knight Fulham £3.5m
Scott Carson Liverpool Loan
Harry Forrester Watford £250 000 initial fee rising on appearances
Eric Lichaj Unattached Free
Marlon Harewood West Ham Undisc (region of £3.5m?)
Nigel Reo-Coker West Ham £8.5m

THIRD SEASON 2008/2009

Out:

Luke Moore (West Brom - £3.5million)
Olof Mellberg (Juventus - free)
Patrick Berger (Sparta Prague - free)
Thomas Sorensen (released)
Shaun Maloney (Celtic, £1million)
Wayne Routledge (undisclosed)

In:

Curtis Davies (WBA undisclosed but around £7.5million?)
Steve Sidwell (Chelsea £5.5million)
Brad Friedel (Blackburn, undisclosed but in the region of £2 - £2.5million)
Brad Guzan (Chivas US, undisclosed, starts at around £800k up to £2m on appearances etc?)
Nicky Shorey (Reading, around £4m?)
Luke Young (Middlesbrough, around £5m?)
Carlos Cuellar (Rangers £7.8million)
James Milner (Newcastle, around £12million?)
Arsenio Halfhuid from Excelsior (undisclosed)
Emile Heskey from Wigan Athletic (£3.5m)

FOURTH SEASON 2009/2010

Out:

Gareth Barry (Manchester City, £12million)
Stuart Taylor (Manchester City, free)
Zat Knight (Bolton £4 - £4.5million)
Martin Laursen (retired)
Craig Garnder (Blues in January, £3.5million)

In

Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough around £10m + add ons)
Fabian Delph (Leeds United - undisclosed fee - around £6m including add ons?)
Habib Beye (Newcastle, undisclosed but around £3m?)
Andy Marshall (free agent)
Stephen Warnock (Blackburn Rovers - around £6m + add ons?)
James Collins (West Ham United - around £5m)
Richard Dunne (Manchester City - around £6m)

*Loan fees not included. Figures rounded up or down. Only a rough guideline!*

Offline tomd2103

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #128 on: December 21, 2015, 09:22:16 AM »
You're basically right though. Any manager in the world will spend as much as they are allowed to, on the players they think are the best value for the spend. Why would they do otherwise when the manager job is so precarious and success is measured over such short periods? In hindsight it's absurd to think beye/heskey/Davies were the best use of those funds but MON thought it was so it is a crime that he took the money and spent it on them?

Also, I distinctly remember a lot of transfer day angst because he wasn't spending the fund being made available (pelty?) and talk of him spending money like it was his own, so I don't necessarily buy the whole he sold the farm argument which has become accepted fact.

The fact that he was seemingly unaware of the existence of a transfer market outside the UK and Ireland was a definite black mark against him.  That isn't speaking from hindsight either, as I remember a lot of people saying that at the time.  At that time, the money spent on the likes of Curtis Davies could have bought some top players from abroad.

Offline brian green

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #129 on: December 21, 2015, 09:46:52 AM »
It is a myth that the default position of the British people is debt brought on by profligacy.  It is an excuse perpetrated by the weak to excuse their weakness by claiming it is normal. And by the purveyors of overpriced tat.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #130 on: December 21, 2015, 10:20:45 AM »
The spending argument is only part of the issue. It should not be allowed to overshadow the issue of O'Neill's personal conduct, which was conniving, spoilt and shitty, and arguably caused more damage than anything he did with Lerner's chequebook. Lerner still had some money left when O'Neill buggered off, but he no longer had the faith, the trust, the ambition or the drive. It seems O'Neill broke him.

If you can defend O'Neill by asking who amongst us wouldn't have spent that money given the chance, you can also put yourself in Lerner's shoes and ask who amongst us wouldn't be far more cautious once we'd had our fingers burned?

Offline russon

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #131 on: December 21, 2015, 10:57:28 AM »
The assumption is made that he left so close to the new season in order to maximize the damage to AVFC but that's not something I choose to believe. Why not entertain the opposite angle and consider he spent the summer arguing his corner with the chairman until having to concede the relationship was no longer tenable? Neither argument can be supported with any genuine proof and given Lerner doesn't have the common courtesy to ever speak with the club's supporters why on earth would you want to reject the suggestion that he was at fault rather than a man who'd taken 2 years out of football to support his cancer ridden wife? He concedes his timing was poor but the idea that it was deliberate sabotage I believe is a step too far.

Offline glasses

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #132 on: December 21, 2015, 11:14:16 AM »
O'Neill left a week before the season started. We finished 9th that season. Hardly catastrophic. Pulis left the night before the season began at Palace, yet they finished 12th that season and at some points since, some people of this parish would have had him as our manager.

We continued to spend big money for a while after he'd gone. The two highest earners in our history he mentioned will probably be found in Bent, N'Zogbia or Stephen Ireland. Not his signings. He is within his rights IMO to not have the 'He spent all the money' arguement thrown at him and defend himself.


Offline themossman

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #133 on: December 21, 2015, 11:19:14 AM »
The spending argument is only part of the issue. It should not be allowed to overshadow the issue of O'Neill's personal conduct, which was conniving, spoilt and shitty, and arguably caused more damage than anything he did with Lerner's chequebook. Lerner still had some money left when O'Neill buggered off, but he no longer had the faith, the trust, the ambition or the drive. It seems O'Neill broke him.

If you can defend O'Neill by asking who amongst us wouldn't have spent that money given the chance, you can also put yourself in Lerner's shoes and ask who amongst us wouldn't be far more cautious once we'd had our fingers burned?

Fair point. But I'd frankly expect more of our owner than our manager. Lerner is a billionaire and formerly controlled a gigantic multinational company. He should be able to deal with the antics of a nasty little little oik like MON without losing his faith in humankind and becoming fatally unconvinced of his own strategy.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: MO'N on Goals on Sunday
« Reply #134 on: December 21, 2015, 11:21:27 AM »
He has more financial backing that any other Villa manager in history, and yet he opted for the likes of Harewood, Heskey and co.  The unimaginative dullard.

Nowhere near as good a manager as Sir Brian was for us, or even JG, for that matter.

 


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