MO'N on Goals on Sunday

[tomd2103]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

Correct. It was a gamble, on our future competitiveness as a premier league team. The more I think about it the more gambles there have been under this regime. That houllier's health will hold, that the fans will accept mcleish, that deals can be done in the last year of a player's contract. Solskjær would have been a punt. Replacing your prize assets with unproven French players has been a disastrous punt. Sherwood, garde. This era has been characterised by a perverse will to take the left field option and it's fucked us.

Edit - of course, to bring it back to MON, it all started with a gamble, with the front loaded investment and lack of proper accountability when he was first in place. This all makes the safe stewardship stuff sound pretty hollow.

If there was accountability from the start then O'Neil would never of been our manager. This situation we find ourselves in isn't 1 persons fault it was started by O'Neil massive over spend on limited players then his perfectly timed departure to cause maximum impact.  Then the calamity of managerial appointments following that have brought us to where we are today, Lerner and O'Neil are both to blame.

Not so sure about that Stuart.  It was a big appointment at the time and I for one was delighted about it. 

[stuart445]

ive said it loads of times but I really cant blame lerner
he is, imo,being very badly advised

For me it's not just about lack of investment. I think the players might get a bit of a boost  (or kick up the arse) to actually see the owner in his seat a la
Roman Abramovich. It can't be great to look up to the directors box and see a block of empty seats. 2 years since he showed his face in B6.

was Gardes first game really 2 years ago?  I must have been looking the other way.  Can someone tell me did we stay up? if not have we managed to gain promotion at the first attempt?

[stuart445]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

Correct. It was a gamble, on our future competitiveness as a premier league team. The more I think about it the more gambles there have been under this regime. That houllier's health will hold, that the fans will accept mcleish, that deals can be done in the last year of a player's contract. Solskjær would have been a punt. Replacing your prize assets with unproven French players has been a disastrous punt. Sherwood, garde. This era has been characterised by a perverse will to take the left field option and it's fucked us.

Edit - of course, to bring it back to MON, it all started with a gamble, with the front loaded investment and lack of proper accountability when he was first in place. This all makes the safe stewardship stuff sound pretty hollow.

If there was accountability from the start then O'Neil would never of been our manager. This situation we find ourselves in isn't 1 persons fault it was started by O'Neil massive over spend on limited players then his perfectly timed departure to cause maximum impact.  Then the calamity of managerial appointments following that have brought us to where we are today, Lerner and O'Neil are both to blame.

Not so sure about that Stuart.  It was a big appointment at the time and I for one was delighted about it. 

Seeing as at the first hint of accountability O'Neil ran away I think you find I'm right.

[tomd2103]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

Correct. It was a gamble, on our future competitiveness as a premier league team. The more I think about it the more gambles there have been under this regime. That houllier's health will hold, that the fans will accept mcleish, that deals can be done in the last year of a player's contract. Solskjær would have been a punt. Replacing your prize assets with unproven French players has been a disastrous punt. Sherwood, garde. This era has been characterised by a perverse will to take the left field option and it's fucked us.

Edit - of course, to bring it back to MON, it all started with a gamble, with the front loaded investment and lack of proper accountability when he was first in place. This all makes the safe stewardship stuff sound pretty hollow.

If there was accountability from the start then O'Neil would never of been our manager. This situation we find ourselves in isn't 1 persons fault it was started by O'Neil massive over spend on limited players then his perfectly timed departure to cause maximum impact.  Then the calamity of managerial appointments following that have brought us to where we are today, Lerner and O'Neil are both to blame.

Not so sure about that Stuart.  It was a big appointment at the time and I for one was delighted about it. 

Seeing as at the first hint of accountability O'Neil ran away I think you find I'm right.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

[ChicagoLion]

If the Lerner money had been invested more wisely then there would be need to pay it back.
The question now is how much does he Invest to try to salvage some of his original investment and does he have the right people in place to make that happen?

[peter w]

Of course where we are isn't because of O'Neill but the plethora of bad football decisions post O'Neill. But what also has to be recognised is that he bought some real donkeys who we couldn't shift. That was the start of the mess that we're in. Once the club made their ambitions clear all our valuable players cleared off one by one. Post O'Neill we haven't dealt with finance side very well and that isn't O'Neills fault. What is is that he wasted a lot of our money on a group of players who largely not good enough - save the odd exception or two - but when told to pull up the drawbridge him, or whoever, needed to be able to shift players to use that money on a cheaper but probably better option. He ruined our chance to do that and for that I do think he has to shoulder a large part of the blame.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

That's it exactly.  With Randy Lerner came a glorious opportunity to embark on a long-term plan, to invest in the infrastructure of the club and build some solid foundations that would see us make steady progress.  That was the key to success.  Instead what we've had is a fatally short-sighted, short-termist approach to everything, beginning with Lerner handing great wodges of his fortune to completely the wrong man.  Two hundred and fifty million quid may not even have bought a title winning squad, but it should have been ample to buy the knowledge and expertise required to run a club capable of challenging for trophies for years.  Lerner didn't have to know anything about football, he just needed to employ people who did.  He failed to do that. 

I despair to think that after so many years of Ellis strangling us with his miserly approach we finally got what we wanted, what we needed, what any club needs to compete these days in the money-driven world of the Premier League: we got our sugar daddy: we got his millions: and then O'Neill wasted the lot on a glut of Sidwells and Shoreys.  And for what?  Sixth place finishes?  Even O'Leary managed that, with a fraction of O'Neills' funding.  And that was our chance, folks.  That was our future and O'Neill blew it.  Anyone who thinks he's is in no way culpable for this mess five years down the line is as short-sighted as he is.  His reckless spending crippled us, his behaviour clearly damaged Lerner, and our current predicament is the result. Lerner is to blame for trusting him, for not knowing that he was a very limited football manager, and for the car crash we've witnessed since, but it's not his fault that O'Neill is a spiteful, self-serving litigious bastard.   
       

[dave.woodhall]

It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

That's it exactly.  With Randy Lerner came a glorious opportunity to embark on a long-term plan, to invest in the infrastructure of the club and build some solid foundations that would see us make steady progress.  That was the key to success.  Instead what we've had is a fatally short-sighted, short-termist approach to everything, beginning with Lerner handing great wodges of his fortune to completely the wrong man.  Two hundred and fifty million quid may not even have bought a title winning squad, but it should have been ample to buy the knowledge and expertise required to run a club capable of challenging for trophies for years.  Lerner didn't have to know anything about football, he just needed to employ people who did.  He failed to do that. 

I despair to think that after so many years of Ellis strangling us with his miserly approach we finally got what we wanted, what we needed, what any club needs to compete these days in the money-driven world of the Premier League: we got our sugar daddy: we got his millions: and then O'Neill wasted the lot on a glut of Sidwells and Shoreys.  And for what?  Sixth place finishes?  Even O'Leary managed that, with a fraction of O'Neills' funding.  And that was our chance, folks.  That was our future and O'Neill blew it.  Anyone who thinks he's is in no way culpable for this mess five years down the line is as short-sighted as he is.  His reckless spending crippled us, his behaviour clearly damaged Lerner, and our current predicament is the result. Lerner is to blame for trusting him, for not knowing that he was a very limited football manager, and for the car crash we've witnessed since, but it's not his fault that O'Neill is a spiteful, self-serving litigious bastard.   
       

I'd agree with that.

[The Edge]

ive said it loads of times but I really cant blame lerner
he is, imo,being very badly advised

For me it's not just about lack of investment. I think the players might get a bit of a boost  (or kick up the arse) to actually see the owner in his seat a la
Roman Abramovich. It can't be great to look up to the directors box and see a block of empty seats. 2 years since he showed his face in B6.

was Gardes first game really 2 years ago?  I must have been looking the other way.  Can someone tell me did we stay up? if not have we managed to gain promotion at the first attempt?

Yes that's right. Remi Garde is the owner of Aston Villa and hasn't been to Villa Park for 2 years

[Gareth]

It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

That's it exactly.  With Randy Lerner came a glorious opportunity to embark on a long-term plan, to invest in the infrastructure of the club and build some solid foundations that would see us make steady progress.  That was the key to success.  Instead what we've had is a fatally short-sighted, short-termist approach to everything, beginning with Lerner handing great wodges of his fortune to completely the wrong man.  Two hundred and fifty million quid may not even have bought a title winning squad, but it should have been ample to buy the knowledge and expertise required to run a club capable of challenging for trophies for years.  Lerner didn't have to know anything about football, he just needed to employ people who did.  He failed to do that. 

I despair to think that after so many years of Ellis strangling us with his miserly approach we finally got what we wanted, what we needed, what any club needs to compete these days in the money-driven world of the Premier League: we got our sugar daddy: we got his millions: and then O'Neill wasted the lot on a glut of Sidwells and Shoreys.  And for what?  Sixth place finishes?  Even O'Leary managed that, with a fraction of O'Neills' funding.  And that was our chance, folks.  That was our future and O'Neill blew it.  Anyone who thinks he's is in no way culpable for this mess five years down the line is as short-sighted as he is.  His reckless spending crippled us, his behaviour clearly damaged Lerner, and our current predicament is the result. Lerner is to blame for trusting him, for not knowing that he was a very limited football manager, and for the car crash we've witnessed since, but it's not his fault that O'Neill is a spiteful, self-serving litigious bastard.   
       

100% agree

[Damo70]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

I wasn't impressed by our idea of Premier League experience. A bloke who had been out of it for six years, a bloke who had just been relegated from it for the second time in four years and two blokes with about one years experience each.

[ChicagoLion]

It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

That's it exactly.  With Randy Lerner came a glorious opportunity to embark on a long-term plan, to invest in the infrastructure of the club and build some solid foundations that would see us make steady progress.  That was the key to success.  Instead what we've had is a fatally short-sighted, short-termist approach to everything, beginning with Lerner handing great wodges of his fortune to completely the wrong man.  Two hundred and fifty million quid may not even have bought a title winning squad, but it should have been ample to buy the knowledge and expertise required to run a club capable of challenging for trophies for years.  Lerner didn't have to know anything about football, he just needed to employ people who did.  He failed to do that. 

I despair to think that after so many years of Ellis strangling us with his miserly approach we finally got what we wanted, what we needed, what any club needs to compete these days in the money-driven world of the Premier League: we got our sugar daddy: we got his millions: and then O'Neill wasted the lot on a glut of Sidwells and Shoreys.  And for what?  Sixth place finishes?  Even O'Leary managed that, with a fraction of O'Neills' funding.  And that was our chance, folks.  That was our future and O'Neill blew it.  Anyone who thinks he's is in no way culpable for this mess five years down the line is as short-sighted as he is.  His reckless spending crippled us, his behaviour clearly damaged Lerner, and our current predicament is the result. Lerner is to blame for trusting him, for not knowing that he was a very limited football manager, and for the car crash we've witnessed since, but it's not his fault that O'Neill is a spiteful, self-serving litigious bastard.   
       

I'd agree with that.

Same here spot on.

[brian green]

And here. Spot on the facts of the matter.

[kippaxvilla2]

Rubbish!  Just trying to be different......it's probably about right really.

[AV82EC]

It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

That's it exactly.  With Randy Lerner came a glorious opportunity to embark on a long-term plan, to invest in the infrastructure of the club and build some solid foundations that would see us make steady progress.  That was the key to success.  Instead what we've had is a fatally short-sighted, short-termist approach to everything, beginning with Lerner handing great wodges of his fortune to completely the wrong man.  Two hundred and fifty million quid may not even have bought a title winning squad, but it should have been ample to buy the knowledge and expertise required to run a club capable of challenging for trophies for years.  Lerner didn't have to know anything about football, he just needed to employ people who did.  He failed to do that. 

I despair to think that after so many years of Ellis strangling us with his miserly approach we finally got what we wanted, what we needed, what any club needs to compete these days in the money-driven world of the Premier League: we got our sugar daddy: we got his millions: and then O'Neill wasted the lot on a glut of Sidwells and Shoreys.  And for what?  Sixth place finishes?  Even O'Leary managed that, with a fraction of O'Neills' funding.  And that was our chance, folks.  That was our future and O'Neill blew it.  Anyone who thinks he's is in no way culpable for this mess five years down the line is as short-sighted as he is.  His reckless spending crippled us, his behaviour clearly damaged Lerner, and our current predicament is the result. Lerner is to blame for trusting him, for not knowing that he was a very limited football manager, and for the car crash we've witnessed since, but it's not his fault that O'Neill is a spiteful, self-serving litigious bastard.   
     

Can we have this copied and pasted on every thread about O'Neill. people accuse many of the people who could see through the O'Neill media induced love in of being blind to the facts of three 6th place finishes and a cup final. If that's your definition of success under the limited O'Neill you need to have a word with yourself.